1 00:00:00,090 --> 00:00:04,160 Hi everyone, this is Erica Spicer Mason with Becker's Healthcare. 2 00:00:04,310 --> 00:00:06,440 Thanks so much for tuning in with us today. 3 00:00:07,040 --> 00:00:10,880 Today we'll be talking about dentistry, dental support organizations, 4 00:00:10,940 --> 00:00:13,680 and a D S O model you may not have heard about before. 5 00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:17,710 Joining me for the conversation is Dr. Mitchell Ellingson, 6 00:00:17,730 --> 00:00:22,590 the Chief Clinical Officer and co-founder of Gen four Dental. Mitch, 7 00:00:22,590 --> 00:00:24,350 thank you so much for joining us today. 8 00:00:25,060 --> 00:00:27,630 Well look, looking forward to the conversation, and, uh, 9 00:00:27,630 --> 00:00:28,910 appreciate you guys having me here, Erica. 10 00:00:30,020 --> 00:00:33,970 Of course. So happy that you could join us. So, to get us started, 11 00:00:33,970 --> 00:00:37,210 I was wondering if you could just share a little bit more about your background 12 00:00:37,210 --> 00:00:38,250 and your current role. 13 00:00:38,970 --> 00:00:40,980 Yeah, yeah, happy to. So, uh, 14 00:00:41,180 --> 00:00:44,540 I've been practicing dentistry for the last 16 years here in Scottsdale, 15 00:00:44,540 --> 00:00:48,460 Arizona. Um, over, over that period of time, done a, done a few things. 16 00:00:48,460 --> 00:00:53,100 Been in the multi-practice where I owned, uh, a few practices of my own. Um, 17 00:00:53,100 --> 00:00:53,980 also, uh, 18 00:00:53,980 --> 00:00:58,700 started a software company in 2013 that eventually was 19 00:00:58,700 --> 00:01:01,100 acquired by a group called Spear Education. And, uh, 20 00:01:01,100 --> 00:01:02,900 then helped them to stand up their, 21 00:01:02,900 --> 00:01:04,900 their business division called Practice Solutions, 22 00:01:04,900 --> 00:01:07,340 which I ran for six years with a, 23 00:01:07,340 --> 00:01:10,700 a really talented team there at Spear Education. Um, after, 24 00:01:10,700 --> 00:01:12,580 after that kind of found, uh, 25 00:01:12,580 --> 00:01:17,260 its its point of kind of winding down in my life, you know, I decided, uh, 26 00:01:17,260 --> 00:01:20,780 to found another company kind of in line with my ultimate passion, which is, 27 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:23,980 you know, kind of really protecting the, the, 28 00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:27,620 the specific type of dentistry that I'm used to doing, um, 29 00:01:27,620 --> 00:01:31,140 that places like Sphere Education, Dawson Academy, all those train on is that, 30 00:01:31,140 --> 00:01:33,500 uh, ended up founding Gen four to, 31 00:01:33,500 --> 00:01:36,660 to really bring the best and brightest together so that we could, 32 00:01:36,660 --> 00:01:38,900 we could do it together inside the consolidation space. 33 00:01:38,900 --> 00:01:41,220 And that's where I am at today and, 34 00:01:41,220 --> 00:01:44,620 and excited to kind of dive deeper into our model and how we make that work. 35 00:01:45,460 --> 00:01:48,420 Great. Well, thank you so much for sharing all of that. 36 00:01:48,490 --> 00:01:53,020 It's clear that you're the perfect person to be talking about dentistry today, 37 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:57,220 not just from the clinical side, but also the business and financial side too. 38 00:01:57,270 --> 00:01:59,220 So I'm really excited to dig in here. 39 00:01:59,950 --> 00:02:04,860 So I mentioned up top that the Gen four dental company has 40 00:02:05,260 --> 00:02:07,300 somewhat of a unique D s O model. 41 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:11,260 I'm wondering if you can tell us just a little bit more about that model and 42 00:02:11,260 --> 00:02:12,580 also what makes it different. 43 00:02:13,570 --> 00:02:14,270 You know, when, 44 00:02:14,270 --> 00:02:17,550 when I describe our model to any of our partners before they even come on, 45 00:02:17,550 --> 00:02:20,190 you know, it is really about helping them to understand what, 46 00:02:20,300 --> 00:02:24,270 what the structure of the business is. And it's not, uh, it's not to, 47 00:02:24,510 --> 00:02:25,510 to sell them on the structure, 48 00:02:25,510 --> 00:02:28,390 it's to make sure that it fits their life and what they want to get out of their 49 00:02:28,630 --> 00:02:31,510 practice, right? So it's super important that they understand that, 50 00:02:31,510 --> 00:02:36,390 that what they know and think about dental service organizations, um, is, 51 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:40,910 is really not what we are, right? It's not a hundred percent how we operate Now. 52 00:02:40,910 --> 00:02:41,990 We fall in that category. 53 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:45,790 We have all a lot of the consolidated services in the background from hr, 54 00:02:45,990 --> 00:02:48,910 treasury management, all that fun stuff, which is typical to these groups. 55 00:02:49,290 --> 00:02:52,030 But when you dig into how we interact with our doctors, 56 00:02:52,030 --> 00:02:55,630 that's where we completely differentiate, right? So it's in, 57 00:02:55,630 --> 00:02:57,870 in a lot of these businesses, I would say it, 58 00:02:57,870 --> 00:03:01,360 it's typically the strategy is gonna come from the top and work its way down. 59 00:03:01,730 --> 00:03:05,960 In our business. We, we look to interact with every one of our doctors, 60 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:08,320 understand what their goals, what their visions are, 61 00:03:08,650 --> 00:03:11,680 so that we can find the common threads and put together, um, 62 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:14,480 an action plan that aligns with what they're trying to get outta their career. 63 00:03:14,660 --> 00:03:15,560 And then we move, 64 00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:19,320 that's where our operations team will build plans around what they're hearing on 65 00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:22,840 an individual practice basis so that they can help them to achieve, you know, 66 00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:25,240 their vision of success and what they want to get outta their career. 67 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:28,400 So it's really, uh, it's the, you know, from the, 68 00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:30,960 the service part of D S O, right? 69 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:33,280 I would say that we look at service from bottoms up, 70 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:35,640 whereas a lot of times I think, uh, it's looked at from a, 71 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:39,080 a tops down perspective, right? So, so that's where we, 72 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:42,200 we kind of get into something that we deem the, the collaborative doctor model, 73 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:46,320 and I, I know we're gonna go into that today and, and help to understand what, 74 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:48,320 what collaborative doctor model really means. 75 00:03:49,510 --> 00:03:53,720 Absolutely. Yeah, and it really sounds, just based on what you described, 76 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:58,720 I can already tell how doctor focused your approach is, um, 77 00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:03,210 which I think is a really important consideration when we think about 78 00:04:03,890 --> 00:04:04,570 clinical autonomy, 79 00:04:04,570 --> 00:04:07,970 which is something that we're hearing a lot about today in the space. 80 00:04:08,210 --> 00:04:12,170 We're hearing that desire for clinical autonomy come up a lot. 81 00:04:12,510 --> 00:04:17,330 And so I'm curious how you keep that promise of clinical autonomy and 82 00:04:17,330 --> 00:04:22,210 also manage to still set up processes that you can make sure are 83 00:04:22,210 --> 00:04:25,090 efficient and also scalable across your client base. 84 00:04:26,370 --> 00:04:29,340 I mean, uh, I think clinical autonomy, autonomy in general is, 85 00:04:29,340 --> 00:04:32,860 is kind of a buzzword that's out there right now that, you know, I, I, 86 00:04:32,860 --> 00:04:36,500 I would argue it's, it's much easier to say than it is to actually do. 87 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:41,100 And so you gotta go to the, the model of how we built gen four. Again, it's, 88 00:04:41,330 --> 00:04:44,220 it's gonna connect to what we'll talk about when it comes to the doctor 89 00:04:44,220 --> 00:04:45,940 collaborative model, but it, 90 00:04:45,940 --> 00:04:49,740 it all starts with understanding what the desires are of our dentist and our 91 00:04:49,740 --> 00:04:52,500 hygienist, right? So we look at it just our clinical team in general, 92 00:04:52,930 --> 00:04:54,820 what do they want to achieve? And, 93 00:04:54,820 --> 00:04:57,860 and helping them to express what that is because interesting enough, 94 00:04:57,860 --> 00:04:59,820 when you ask someone what they want, a lot of times they, 95 00:04:59,820 --> 00:05:03,300 they don't really know how to express their, their true desires , 96 00:05:03,300 --> 00:05:06,300 which you would think is easy. But, uh, at the end of the day, 97 00:05:06,300 --> 00:05:11,100 that's why we have a very well trained team internally of dentists that help 98 00:05:11,100 --> 00:05:14,740 other doctors to express what they want to get and then help them to define how 99 00:05:14,740 --> 00:05:17,860 they're gonna go get it, right. So when they lay out those plans, 100 00:05:17,860 --> 00:05:19,940 that's where the autonomy's at, right? Because they, 101 00:05:19,940 --> 00:05:21,980 they are the ones dictating what they want to get, 102 00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:25,260 how they're gonna get there with their team. What we do as a, 103 00:05:25,260 --> 00:05:29,020 a response to that from the operation side is we just look at what they want and 104 00:05:29,020 --> 00:05:32,420 understand the support that is needed. This is the, you know, 105 00:05:32,420 --> 00:05:33,980 the service side of, of the, 106 00:05:33,980 --> 00:05:37,820 the D s O side of the business is that we look at what is needed and then we 107 00:05:37,820 --> 00:05:41,140 build our plans around what they're, what they're trying to do, right? 108 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:42,340 And so the, 109 00:05:42,580 --> 00:05:47,020 the beauty of dentistry being a very niched industry is there's not gonna be a 110 00:05:47,020 --> 00:05:49,220 hundred different versions of things that they want to do. 111 00:05:49,330 --> 00:05:51,900 That's how this is all possible, is that, you know, 112 00:05:51,900 --> 00:05:53,500 typically you're gonna see dentists that, 113 00:05:53,500 --> 00:05:57,180 that want to focus in areas of cosmetics or surgery, implant placement, 114 00:05:57,480 --> 00:06:01,480 maybe clear liners. But then we go to our hygienist and I can tell they, 115 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:06,120 they typically will focus in areas of like laser therapy and, and, 116 00:06:06,250 --> 00:06:09,840 uh, myofunctional therapy. Those are gonna be things that they wanna focus on. 117 00:06:10,210 --> 00:06:13,360 So as long as you understand how to deliver and support, 118 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:16,040 when someone goes to a different type of course, um, 119 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:17,360 or develops a different skillset, 120 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:21,240 we're able to just help them to get where they want to go, right? 121 00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:26,000 Versus asking them to, to deliver on something that we need, right? 122 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:28,840 It's all gotta be aligned with the strategic imperatives of the business. 123 00:06:28,910 --> 00:06:32,680 It's all gotta make sense. Of course, we don't just leave it wide open, but, 124 00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:33,560 you know, it it, 125 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:37,600 it encompasses the ability for everybody to have the autonomy and flexibility 126 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:42,080 that they want to be able to do whatever they were doing before. Cuz our, 127 00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:46,800 our entire model revolves around the fact that we are trying to maintain the 128 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:51,440 legacy and the practice structure that was in place when we partnered with the 129 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:52,680 group that we're with, right? 130 00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:57,080 That's why partner selection's so important to gen four is that we have to make 131 00:06:57,080 --> 00:07:01,040 sure that they're a perfect fit for what the organization is set up to be. 132 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:01,600 Right? 133 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:05,000 So that's why when we talk about clinical autonomy or a doctor collaborative 134 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:09,160 model, I'll go back to the point that I, i I made before, and that's, you know, 135 00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:10,880 we don't use those as wizbang words. 136 00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:14,280 It's to be very clear the structure of the business that we've, 137 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:17,640 we've created here and, and what that means to them. 138 00:07:17,640 --> 00:07:21,480 Because we wanna make sure that if you're gonna partner with gen four, uh, that, 139 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:22,960 that we're a fit for each other, right? 140 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:27,840 That we truly align on vision and values before we, we go into the, 141 00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:31,000 the, the relationship side of this, the partnership side. If that makes sense. 142 00:07:31,970 --> 00:07:33,820 Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. 143 00:07:34,070 --> 00:07:39,020 It sounds like your team has such a customizable approach while also 144 00:07:39,020 --> 00:07:42,460 relying on some of those best practices and what you know, 145 00:07:42,460 --> 00:07:44,100 to be true in this niche industry. 146 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:48,660 But I really appreciate you sharing that explanation cuz it really gives 147 00:07:48,730 --> 00:07:52,140 some tangible insight to how you approach, um, 148 00:07:52,140 --> 00:07:55,180 each of your potential and new partners. So that's really great to hear. 149 00:07:55,920 --> 00:07:59,900 And I know we keep kind of going back to this concept of a collaborative 150 00:07:59,900 --> 00:08:01,580 doctor's model. Um, 151 00:08:01,580 --> 00:08:05,060 and so I think it'll be really important for our listeners to hear more about 152 00:08:05,060 --> 00:08:10,060 that and also what kind of innovations or solutions and outcomes 153 00:08:10,060 --> 00:08:11,940 are, are coming out of this type of approach. 154 00:08:12,740 --> 00:08:16,630 Yeah, so, uh, the collaborative doctor model, I mean, I think that is, um, 155 00:08:16,630 --> 00:08:17,140 you know, 156 00:08:17,140 --> 00:08:21,590 I I think anybody who's been in a truly collaborative environment understands 157 00:08:21,590 --> 00:08:25,950 the complexity of collaboration, right? And so when we're talking about it, 158 00:08:25,950 --> 00:08:29,710 you could say, you know, a lot of times you'll hear like DR centric, right? 159 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:34,350 Is is what, what a, a business or group will say. Um, I, 160 00:08:34,350 --> 00:08:38,510 I hope you kind of appreciate the fact that there's a word model in in our, 161 00:08:38,530 --> 00:08:42,510 our label here. Cuz the collaborative doctor model is, again, it's not a label, 162 00:08:42,510 --> 00:08:45,070 it's, it's a process, it's a system, right? 163 00:08:45,560 --> 00:08:50,230 So we make sure that our doctors are supported as a network altogether, 164 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:51,990 uh, so that we can, 165 00:08:51,990 --> 00:08:55,760 we can understand the synergies that we might find between groups that are 166 00:08:55,760 --> 00:08:58,240 trying to do similar things between, um, 167 00:08:58,240 --> 00:09:01,920 doctors that may have a skillset that they can help another younger doctor to be 168 00:09:01,920 --> 00:09:04,960 able to have that skillset, right? When you look at our partners, 169 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:08,160 you're gonna see some of the industry leaders for, um, you know, 170 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:10,720 full mouth restorative type treatment, cosmetics, you know, 171 00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:14,600 just bread and butter dentistry. I mean, you're gonna see mentors, leaders, 172 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:17,640 teachers, amongst our midst. And that's, that's on purpose, right? 173 00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:20,720 Because when you're, when you're doing a truly collaborative model, 174 00:09:20,900 --> 00:09:23,280 you need to have the resources to be able to do that. 175 00:09:23,770 --> 00:09:25,480 So when you think of the things that, 176 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:27,640 that have come out from the innovation side of this, 177 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:31,680 which I think has been really fun, is, is that we have, uh, a group, 178 00:09:31,680 --> 00:09:33,720 we have something called Gen Forum, right? 179 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:37,400 And so gen Forum is where our doctors, uh, 180 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:40,080 talk about cases with each other. They'll post things, 181 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:44,000 they'll post questions and allow our subject matter experts and the rest of our 182 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:47,360 team to chime in to help them to go through a case. They might have a, 183 00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:50,880 something that just came up in the middle of the day. They'll post it on, 184 00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:53,880 on teams or something called Yammer. And uh, 185 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:57,160 you'd be amazed at the amount of support and response that they get, right? 186 00:09:57,160 --> 00:10:00,360 Because these, these are truly partners, right? Because I, 187 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:04,320 I think part of when you become a bigger group and you become a little more 188 00:10:04,560 --> 00:10:08,440 geographically dispersed, it's hard to maintain relationships at a deep level, 189 00:10:08,440 --> 00:10:11,840 right? To the point where you can truly collaborate. Cuz you know, when, 190 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:14,320 when somebody comes in to any business, I believe, 191 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:18,480 like learning to collaborate and challenge each other in a thoughtful way and 192 00:10:18,490 --> 00:10:20,040 to, to really, you know, 193 00:10:20,060 --> 00:10:23,560 professionally disagree and professionally agree with each other, you know, 194 00:10:23,560 --> 00:10:26,680 those things have to be taught and especially to a group of doctors. 195 00:10:26,680 --> 00:10:30,760 And I think our doctors would would admit to this is that some of 'em have been 196 00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:32,920 on their own for decades, right? 197 00:10:32,970 --> 00:10:37,040 So collaboration isn't something they've had to practice in a decade plus. 198 00:10:37,650 --> 00:10:40,840 So there's definitely a learning curve that goes along with that. 199 00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:43,920 But once they understand how to push back on each other, 200 00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:46,040 how to thoughtfully disagree and how to, 201 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:49,880 how to let that pressure kind of make an idea better, uh, it's, 202 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:52,080 it's amazing what what can be done, right? 203 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:54,520 And so like our gen forum of seeing people support each other, 204 00:10:54,520 --> 00:10:58,360 that was an idea that came from collaboration. Um, you know, 205 00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:02,160 we're gonna be launching an internal podcast part, which is again, a tool to, 206 00:11:02,250 --> 00:11:06,040 to have people collaborate and hear each other's ideas. You know, we have our, 207 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:09,920 our doctors work in study clubs so that they can constantly iterate and, 208 00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:13,960 and work with each other and see each other's skill set so that they understand 209 00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:15,360 what questions they can ask each other. 210 00:11:15,810 --> 00:11:20,600 So those pieces of innovation have created a network of doctors that I, 211 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:22,920 I will tell you that's why, uh, you know, I'll just, 212 00:11:22,920 --> 00:11:27,120 I'll say this as a joke in inside of our, our podcast here, is that, you know, 213 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:28,720 that's why we had to deal with all of my, 214 00:11:28,720 --> 00:11:31,040 my wonderful prompts cuz what are those? 215 00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:35,960 That's our doctors all 150 plus of them constantly talking to each other, 216 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:37,080 right? Mm-hmm. . 217 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:39,880 Now they use different messaging platforms to do that, 218 00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:42,360 but I would say 18 months ago, 219 00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:45,760 like they didn't really know each other that well. You fast forward to today, 220 00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:47,960 you get to see them constantly interacting. 221 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:50,160 Cuz I have a view where I get to watch their, 222 00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:53,820 their communication and I could tell you it's, it's all the the time , 223 00:11:53,820 --> 00:11:57,020 right? They're, they're constantly working with each other and, 224 00:11:57,020 --> 00:12:01,140 and I'm a big believer that every conversation leads to the ability to 225 00:12:01,140 --> 00:12:03,220 collaborate better. Cuz you're getting to know each other better. 226 00:12:03,220 --> 00:12:05,140 You're getting comfortable, you know, cuz I, 227 00:12:05,140 --> 00:12:07,500 I think we can all agree that when we first meet someone, 228 00:12:07,500 --> 00:12:10,460 our first thing isn't to try to disagree with them cuz we're not comfortable 229 00:12:10,460 --> 00:12:13,300 with them yet. But, but eventually, you know, 230 00:12:13,300 --> 00:12:14,820 once you get to that level of comfort, 231 00:12:14,820 --> 00:12:16,660 you can truly challenge each other's idea. 232 00:12:16,660 --> 00:12:19,100 And that to me is that's where innovation is made. 233 00:12:19,100 --> 00:12:21,780 And I've seen innovation inside how we meet. 234 00:12:21,780 --> 00:12:25,900 I've in seen innovation inti inside of how we teach each other, uh, 235 00:12:25,900 --> 00:12:28,860 that has come from this cuz everybody's learning better and better ways to 236 00:12:29,060 --> 00:12:32,780 interact inside the collaborative model. And so that's, that's where, you know, 237 00:12:32,780 --> 00:12:36,860 our, our individual growth engine and how we help every doctor and hygienist, 238 00:12:37,230 --> 00:12:41,620 um, has really proven to be fruitful. You know, it, it's, it's exciting to see, 239 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:43,380 you know, how they, they, 240 00:12:43,530 --> 00:12:47,420 they come into even gen four thinking maybe that they're, 241 00:12:47,420 --> 00:12:49,820 they're good to go and their, their career or their, 242 00:12:49,820 --> 00:12:53,940 their skillset and then they start to get excited about learning again. And, 243 00:12:53,940 --> 00:12:54,860 and we measure all that. 244 00:12:54,860 --> 00:12:57,780 Like we do a lot of internal surveys to understand like how they think about 245 00:12:57,780 --> 00:13:00,300 that. And it's definitive as we looked at it, 246 00:13:00,300 --> 00:13:04,820 is that they really appreciate every doctor that comes in appreciates once they 247 00:13:04,820 --> 00:13:06,900 understand what the individual growth engine is, 248 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:11,300 how it supports them in their career and how, and uh, it's not this, you know, 249 00:13:11,300 --> 00:13:15,260 removal of autonomy as we were talking about, right. 250 00:13:15,260 --> 00:13:17,020 And saying Here's what I need from you. 251 00:13:17,020 --> 00:13:19,540 Cuz that's obviously the exact opposite of autonomy. 252 00:13:20,580 --> 00:13:23,670 Absolutely. And just from what you described, 253 00:13:23,670 --> 00:13:28,630 that level of engagement that you're seeing among the folks that gen 254 00:13:28,630 --> 00:13:29,590 four partners with, 255 00:13:29,590 --> 00:13:34,310 it really does highlight that craving for ongoing learning and 256 00:13:34,310 --> 00:13:35,990 community and communication. 257 00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:40,270 So it's really great to see that your practice has been able to really foster 258 00:13:40,270 --> 00:13:44,550 that among the folks that you partner with. Yeah. 259 00:13:44,680 --> 00:13:49,430 So the more I'm hearing about Gen four's approach and all of the 260 00:13:49,430 --> 00:13:51,630 tools and resources that are offered, 261 00:13:51,630 --> 00:13:56,030 I imagine most dental leaders who are listening to this podcast right now are 262 00:13:56,270 --> 00:14:00,190 probably wondering, okay, I'm interested , how do I get involved in this? 263 00:14:00,680 --> 00:14:03,230 Um, but I wanna go back to something that you mentioned. 264 00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:06,550 It sounds like Gen four has a really strong, um, 265 00:14:06,870 --> 00:14:10,310 approach to making sure the partnership works both ways. 266 00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:14,470 So I'm curious if you could just shed a little bit of light on how dental 267 00:14:14,830 --> 00:14:16,550 practices can approach gen for, 268 00:14:16,810 --> 00:14:19,350 for a partnership and what does that process look like? 269 00:14:20,150 --> 00:14:20,670 Well, 270 00:14:20,670 --> 00:14:25,330 I I will tell you that referrals are typically the way that, 271 00:14:25,330 --> 00:14:29,130 that we find partners right now, we, we have a, 272 00:14:29,130 --> 00:14:32,730 a great mergers and acquisitions team, but you know, I will tell you that it's, 273 00:14:32,920 --> 00:14:36,970 it's usually that they're gonna be introduced from someone that is already a 274 00:14:36,970 --> 00:14:39,530 partner that knows about us, right? So that is our most, 275 00:14:39,530 --> 00:14:42,690 most common pathway to have the conversation with us. 276 00:14:42,690 --> 00:14:46,330 But should you know someone as they listen to this, you know, 277 00:14:46,330 --> 00:14:48,730 want to get more information first, I would say go to the website, 278 00:14:48,730 --> 00:14:52,520 start to look at those things and just understand what Gen four is all about. 279 00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:55,120 Cuz you know, we're, we're, we're definitely, uh, 280 00:14:55,120 --> 00:14:58,440 a passionate group about supporting docs. Um, but you know, 281 00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:00,240 there we have a very defined model of, 282 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:03,600 of the type of doctors that we think are the best fit inside of here, right? 283 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:04,640 Because, um, 284 00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:07,800 we have to put together the right group of people cuz it's not fun for anybody, 285 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:11,320 you know, the doctor or for us if, if the partner that, that, 286 00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:15,080 that would come on, it doesn't embrace the model that we just talked about. 287 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:18,200 Right? If that doesn't excite you, then then Gen four would, 288 00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:21,800 would probably not be the the place that would feel fulfilling to you. 289 00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:24,840 But if it resonates with you, um, and let's say, you know, 290 00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:27,280 someone that's part of the group and that's where you can go on the website and 291 00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:30,960 kind of understand is that may wanna reach out to them first and say how, 292 00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:33,920 how it's going, right? Because, you know, like, I'm gonna be self-serving. 293 00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:36,040 I love my business, I'm gonna tell you how great it is. 294 00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:38,720 I would reach out to people that work with us and ask, you know, 295 00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:41,600 what their thoughts are and, and if that makes sense then, you know, 296 00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:45,080 look for a referral into gen four, right? And there's also, 297 00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:48,280 there's also ways that you can reach out, you know, from from the website to, 298 00:15:48,370 --> 00:15:51,480 to ask for more information should, should there be some interest. 299 00:15:52,250 --> 00:15:55,500 Sure. Thank you so much. That's really helpful. Um, 300 00:15:55,500 --> 00:15:57,620 and a great takeaway for those listening. 301 00:15:58,280 --> 00:16:01,540 And I also wanted to take that a little bit further. 302 00:16:02,010 --> 00:16:05,260 Once a dental practice does partner with Gen four, 303 00:16:05,790 --> 00:16:08,900 do you have any examples of how they can see, 304 00:16:08,900 --> 00:16:13,420 expect to see their practices grow, maybe become more productive or efficient? 305 00:16:13,420 --> 00:16:16,660 Any kind of just quick success story or, um, 306 00:16:16,980 --> 00:16:20,180 anything you can share that would highlight what they can expect as a result of 307 00:16:20,180 --> 00:16:21,420 the partnership would be great. 308 00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:23,740 For sure. I mean there's, there's a, a, a, 309 00:16:24,010 --> 00:16:27,780 a bunch of examples I could throw out there, but I'll, I'll throw out, you know, 310 00:16:27,780 --> 00:16:32,180 one, one in particular, right? That, you know, when we're working with doctors, 311 00:16:32,250 --> 00:16:35,980 I mean, it, it, it, it happens where a doctor can get complacent, right? 312 00:16:35,980 --> 00:16:36,980 And they can be in, uh, 313 00:16:36,980 --> 00:16:39,380 kind of just doing dentistry for the sake of doing dentistry, 314 00:16:39,380 --> 00:16:42,940 working their their nine to five and don't realize that they're kind of stuck in 315 00:16:42,940 --> 00:16:45,700 a rut. So, you know, when they, when they come on with us, 316 00:16:45,700 --> 00:16:48,420 and I'm one group in particular that, you know, I, 317 00:16:48,420 --> 00:16:50,620 I would tell you that they'll, they'd even met, 318 00:16:50,620 --> 00:16:54,300 they were just kind of in that place where business was great, but you know, 319 00:16:54,300 --> 00:16:54,500 they, 320 00:16:54,500 --> 00:16:57,220 they kind of stopped doing the things that they loved at the level they wanted 321 00:16:57,220 --> 00:17:00,940 to do. So, you know, we started to work with, it was multiple partners, 322 00:17:00,940 --> 00:17:05,020 so I'll just kind of refer to two. And they had very distinct interests. One, 323 00:17:05,020 --> 00:17:08,060 one decided after we talked a little bit more that, you know, 324 00:17:08,060 --> 00:17:10,300 their passion really was, was locked up in, 325 00:17:10,300 --> 00:17:12,620 in wanting to do more clear liners and tooth movement. 326 00:17:12,820 --> 00:17:14,900 Another one of the partners, same practice, 327 00:17:14,900 --> 00:17:19,140 was more about placing implants and doing more surgical procedures. So we, 328 00:17:19,230 --> 00:17:23,340 we help them to define exactly how they can achieve both those goals. Again, 329 00:17:23,340 --> 00:17:24,660 going back to our, you know, 330 00:17:24,660 --> 00:17:27,980 our individual growth engine and our collaborative doctor model is that we 331 00:17:27,980 --> 00:17:30,860 understand what they want, we build the plan around how we, 332 00:17:30,860 --> 00:17:34,260 we think they can best get it. And then they have to, 333 00:17:34,260 --> 00:17:37,860 they have to bless that plan once they're in, we just go into execution. 334 00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:41,580 And what was really fun about this group is that, you know, 335 00:17:41,580 --> 00:17:44,660 I I was just looking at, you know, the, the growth that they'd had, 336 00:17:44,660 --> 00:17:47,340 cuz now they've been on with us 18 months, is that, you know, 337 00:17:47,340 --> 00:17:51,680 that one doctor went from doing, you know, he did five, six aligners a year. 338 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:54,480 Now he's doing 70 aligners a year, right? So, 339 00:17:54,580 --> 00:17:58,040 and he's continuing to grow and that number is just the beginning. You know, 340 00:17:58,040 --> 00:18:01,160 the, the other doctor was, was doing, you know, 341 00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:03,200 a handful of implants a month now, 342 00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:06,680 now that doctor is doing 10 plus implants a month and, 343 00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:09,040 and enjoying it more cuz that's where, you know, 344 00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:12,240 his passion was he just couldn't figure out how to make it, um, 345 00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:15,280 hit the ground inside of his practice. So, you know, it's, 346 00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:19,240 it's variable for everybody. A and it goes from doing cosmetic dentistry, 347 00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:24,120 more complex cases, t m d more large, full large surgical type procedures. 348 00:18:24,180 --> 00:18:25,120 You know, there's, 349 00:18:25,120 --> 00:18:29,000 there's an example in each one of those that followed that same path. 350 00:18:29,290 --> 00:18:32,560 It was basically either working with a younger doctor that was trying to build 351 00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:34,760 that skillset, um, or it's, 352 00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:38,840 it's with a doctor that has that skillset that just somehow it stopped becoming 353 00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:42,960 what they were doing on a regular basis. So that's, that's a, 354 00:18:42,990 --> 00:18:47,240 a very typical interaction coming into gen four. Uh, cuz our model is, 355 00:18:47,290 --> 00:18:50,880 is not about not about speeding up and seeing how many patients you can see. 356 00:18:50,950 --> 00:18:53,880 It's about being methodical with the patients that you're seeing. 357 00:18:54,180 --> 00:18:55,920 And and I would say more often than not, 358 00:18:55,920 --> 00:18:58,720 we're asking the doctors to just slow down a little bit, 359 00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:01,400 spend some more time with the patient connect, right? 360 00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:05,000 Because sometimes you don't even realize that you're not connecting. And, 361 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:05,680 and we have a, 362 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:09,920 a pretty strong data set that helps us to identify when a doctor's able to, 363 00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:14,800 to connect with a patient even in a periodic exam or a new patient exam and to 364 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:17,960 just show them like that level of connection so that they can tweak what they're 365 00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:21,760 doing to, to further the type of dentistry they want. So that's, 366 00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:26,400 that's where it gets fun because you get to see doctors kind of reinvigorating 367 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:30,080 the passion that they have in dentistry. And once they take that first step, 368 00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:33,480 what we see is they just keep taking more and more steps to grow their, 369 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:37,960 their skillset and, and organic growth falls in right behind it. So it's, uh, 370 00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:40,080 it's probably my favorite thing to watch, to be honest, 371 00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:44,680 is to watch someone find their path again or to be able to just go stronger down 372 00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:47,320 the path they were already on and, and just do more dentistry they love. 373 00:19:48,350 --> 00:19:49,110 For sure. 374 00:19:49,110 --> 00:19:53,890 And I really appreciate how you explained that almost 375 00:19:54,130 --> 00:19:59,130 delicate balance of getting doctors to slow down with you in the process 376 00:19:59,260 --> 00:20:02,250 to be intentional about their goals and what they wanna achieve. 377 00:20:02,470 --> 00:20:06,330 But then also I'm hearing that you're seeing results in your clients within 18 378 00:20:06,330 --> 00:20:09,690 months, if I heard you correctly. So, um, it's really, 379 00:20:10,120 --> 00:20:13,730 it's great to hear that there is that balance of getting things done 380 00:20:13,730 --> 00:20:15,890 intentionally, but also getting results quickly. 381 00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:20,130 Yeah, and, and I'll, I'll correct it just a a little bit. I mean, 382 00:20:20,130 --> 00:20:22,490 it 18 months is like how long they've been, 383 00:20:22,490 --> 00:20:24,370 they've been working through this thing, but, you know, 384 00:20:24,370 --> 00:20:27,610 typical growth pattern to get like kind of spun back up, it's, 385 00:20:27,610 --> 00:20:30,050 it's about five to seven months, right? And so that's, 386 00:20:30,120 --> 00:20:34,530 that's where it usually takes getting all the systems and process aligned to, 387 00:20:34,740 --> 00:20:37,610 to support a doc in, in what they, what they're trying to do. 388 00:20:37,660 --> 00:20:39,730 So it actually happens more quickly, 389 00:20:39,730 --> 00:20:42,170 but it just continues to build up momentum after that. 390 00:20:42,660 --> 00:20:44,980 Great. Now thank you for clarifying. 391 00:20:45,790 --> 00:20:49,840 So I think this is a really great kind of note to wrap up on. 392 00:20:50,380 --> 00:20:55,080 I'm just seeing so much innovation within gen four and then you as an 393 00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:59,320 individual, Mitch, you've, you are such an innovation focused person yourself. 394 00:20:59,370 --> 00:21:01,240 So as you look to the future, 395 00:21:01,470 --> 00:21:05,600 what do you think is on the horizon for dentistry and DSOs and what's exciting 396 00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:06,673 you right now? 397 00:21:06,980 --> 00:21:11,240 You know, I, I think the, the most exciting thing in the, the, uh, 398 00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:14,160 the consolidation space is, you know, 399 00:21:14,270 --> 00:21:18,710 I think doctors understand, you know, that, that this is, 400 00:21:18,710 --> 00:21:21,270 this is the future of the profession, right? And, 401 00:21:21,610 --> 00:21:25,990 and they've gone from a place of, of wondering if it's a part to kind of, uh, 402 00:21:26,010 --> 00:21:29,950 understanding that it is, it's, it's the future of our profession. 403 00:21:30,010 --> 00:21:33,670 And so now we need to understand how to, as dentists, um, 404 00:21:33,670 --> 00:21:37,070 help guide it to a place that's good for dentistry, right? And that's, 405 00:21:37,070 --> 00:21:40,430 that's what's exciting about, you know, just gen four every day, 406 00:21:40,430 --> 00:21:43,590 is that the doctors that join our group are very passionate about, um, 407 00:21:43,590 --> 00:21:47,550 doing great dentistry and, and really passionate about a profession that, 408 00:21:47,550 --> 00:21:51,710 you know, they helped to build where it's at today. So, uh, I think the, 409 00:21:51,710 --> 00:21:55,430 the future is bright for the consolidation space. And what I think is, 410 00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:59,910 is exciting is I think people are realizing to, you know, 411 00:22:00,390 --> 00:22:03,950 identify groups like a Gen four or any other platform and just learn who they 412 00:22:03,950 --> 00:22:08,310 are, right? So you can see that they're, they're the right fit or not because I, 413 00:22:08,310 --> 00:22:13,150 I think there's a place for, for everybody, and I think it just takes, um, 414 00:22:13,150 --> 00:22:17,950 being detailed on the doctor's side as they look at groups like a gen four to 415 00:22:17,950 --> 00:22:21,750 make sure that it's truly a vision and value alignment, right? And that's, 416 00:22:21,750 --> 00:22:24,310 that's the part that I, I think is very exciting. 417 00:22:24,310 --> 00:22:28,070 But also like anybody that's listening, like take that advice, 418 00:22:28,340 --> 00:22:32,630 vision and value alignment before monetary alignment. Make sure that, you know, 419 00:22:32,630 --> 00:22:32,910 the, 420 00:22:32,910 --> 00:22:37,390 the groups that you are talking to kind of check the box of like when they're 421 00:22:37,390 --> 00:22:40,230 talking about what they do, that it resonates. And I, 422 00:22:40,230 --> 00:22:43,590 and I think if we do that in a good way, you know, consolidation will, 423 00:22:43,700 --> 00:22:47,470 will go in a very concerted effort that gets every doctor in the place that they 424 00:22:47,470 --> 00:22:51,270 should be so they can be supported in the way that they want to be supported. 425 00:22:51,570 --> 00:22:54,390 And so that, that is, I see that happening at a much, 426 00:22:54,420 --> 00:22:58,110 much higher level and a much more nuanced level within the consolidation space 427 00:22:58,110 --> 00:22:59,110 today, which I think is, 428 00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:02,390 is what dentistry needs and I think the consolidation space needs as well. 429 00:23:03,150 --> 00:23:05,680 Mm-hmm. , definitely. Well, 430 00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:07,840 thank you so much for sharing that outlook. 431 00:23:08,110 --> 00:23:12,640 I think our listeners have a lot to think about and a lot to take away and some 432 00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:16,120 actionable steps that they can take if they're interested. So Mitch, 433 00:23:16,120 --> 00:23:18,800 thank you so much again for joining us for the discussion. 434 00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:20,720 It's really been a pleasure speaking with you. 435 00:23:21,330 --> 00:23:23,910 Wow. Thanks for having me. And, uh, love the topic. 436 00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:27,110 So anytime you want to have me back, throw the invite my way. 437 00:23:27,870 --> 00:23:30,230 . Wonderful, wonderful. 438 00:23:30,570 --> 00:23:33,830 I'd also like to thank our sponsor today, Jen, for dental. 439 00:23:34,290 --> 00:23:38,590 You can tune into more podcasts and virtual events from Becker's Healthcare by 440 00:23:38,590 --> 00:23:40,870 visiting becker's hospital review.com.