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Hello. This is Arianna Portolatin with the Becker's

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Dental and DS Overby podcast. I'm thrilled to

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be joined today by Doctor. Lincoln Harris, the

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founder and CEO of RipeGlobal. Doctor. Harris, thank

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you so much for being here today. It's

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great to have you. Thank you so much

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for having me. It's a pleasure. Yes. To

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start us off, can you introduce yourself for

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our listeners and tell us a little bit

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about your background as well?

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Yeah, I'm the founder of FRAP Global. My

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background, I'm a general dentist.

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I became a dentist in 1998.

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I lived in rural Queensland in Australia.

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And my journey to where we are now

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started in this rural village where there's no

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specialists,

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and I had to learn multidisciplinary dentistry. Otherwise,

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the patients

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couldn't have anything except extractions.

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And then over time, dentists started asking me

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where I learned all those things. So to

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start with, I just give them the list

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of all the courses I'd done in The

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United States and other places around the world.

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But over time, I thought, why don't I

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teach them? So,

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I've been running

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conferences,

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education,

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hands on training, and then,

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our simulation training since

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2006

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in various stages. So that's kind of my

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background and how I got here. And then

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obviously,

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this year, I moved to The United States

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from Australia to continue the growth of the

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company.

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Great. Thank you so much for sharing that.

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First question for you here. What are some

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of the biggest issues that you're following in

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the dental industry currently?

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The biggest issue in dentistry, I think, is

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still the same as it has been for

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a long time. It it's the people.

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Initially,

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we've used technology to solve the

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all areas around the dentist. So we've used

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technology to automate marketing. We've used technology to

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automate the phone calls and to give you

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feedback using AI on the phone calls and

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how you have missed opportunities and how your

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phone calls can fall into

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lead generation funnels. The practice management software is

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now super sophisticated

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at

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at at diagnosing and bringing up opportunities in

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the patient journey. Obviously, we now have

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diagnostic

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AIs

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like Pearl and Overjet

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and others. And so we have

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pretty much

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AI'd

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every part of the dentist

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practice

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except the dentist.

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And

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the funnel or the choke point of all

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groups and DSOs and group practices

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is that

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the

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production or the

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revenue is still

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the hours worked

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times the average billing hour of the dentist.

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And so if the average billing hour is

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low,

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then

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the production of the practice or the group

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is low and the EBITDA is low. So

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everywhere we go in

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the world,

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all over The United States, the DSOs and

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the groups that we talk to say their

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number one challenge is

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onboarding dentists, training them up, getting them productive,

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training dentists at scale.

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And

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really, they're struggling with

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the fact that all of the

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infrastructure for training dentists

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is around the individual practice. It's not designed

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for groups that

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employ 300 or 500 or a thousand or

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the biggest group we work with employs 4,000

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dentists. So,

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yeah, that's that's

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kind of the

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we hear the same thing everywhere. That's the

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challenge, and that's the exciting thing for us

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too.

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Great. Can you tell us a little bit

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more about your work with RipeGlobal and how

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you're working to solve some of those challenges

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in the industry?

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So we developed simulation. Actually, we didn't develop

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it for DSOs. That was a side pro

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that that was something we discovered later. I'd

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been running hands on courses in Australia and

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New Zealand and Singapore and then various countries

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in Europe and The UK and occasionally in

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The United States

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since about 02/2013.

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And around about 02/2018,

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I was trying to

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think, how do I scale this globally in

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a more sustainable fashion

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than me spending my entire life

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on a on a jet?

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But on at that particular time, I was

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pretty comfortable, and I didn't really have the

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time.

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And then COVID came along, and COVID both

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made me uncomfortable,

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but it also gave me the time.

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And so we had the time to sit

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there and go, how do we scale hands

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on training?

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And then more specifically,

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we thought if you couldn't

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fly people, obviously this was in our mind

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during COVID, but if you couldn't fly someone,

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how do you teach a hand skill, like

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a procedure?

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So not, not the didactic or the theory

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of the procedure,

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but the actual skill of it, and that's

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when we develop simulation training. So,

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in a great flurry of activity in 2020

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and 2021,

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we,

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designed, got manufactured,

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prototyped,

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the training mannequins that we ship to 35

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countries to train dentists. And then we also

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built the method because you train our dentists

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very differently using simulation training versus

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flying them to a facility.

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And we also then,

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develop the software. So

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the reason I'm in America is because if

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you start doing hardware and software engineering and

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raising capital to do it, you relatively quickly

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end up in The United States. There's still

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no other country to do those things. So,

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that's how we're solving it.

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And, you know, we're so excited that

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when we were back running our first simulation

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training courses with dentists, I think back then

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it was like across about 15 or 20

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countries.

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We were blown away at how fast they

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learned,

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and we noticed that the dentists were learning

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50% faster with simulation

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than in a sim lab, like a traditional

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facility.

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And it took quite some time to work

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out what was causing the dentist to learn

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so quickly.

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And And it's because when you're not sitting

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next to them and you're using our platform,

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you have to be very visual in your

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feedback.

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And the visual feedback

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allows the dentist to see what they need

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to correct

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so much better than when you sit in

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a facility and you point at things with

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a probe, which is the traditional way of

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teaching. So, it also because of the cost,

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it's so much less expensive.

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We can afford to get the dentist to

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do

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often 10 times as many repetitions in training.

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So the value proposition, like for the same

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cost, the value proposition is

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massively higher, but, you know, it's not the

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same cost.

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It's something like three quarters of the cost

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of training a dentist is the flights, the

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accommodation,

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and the loss of production from them being

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away.

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So that's how we're solving it

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faster,

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better, and more scalable.

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Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. Seems like it. Great to

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hear about how you've been able to scale

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the platform and all the different advantages that

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there are with simulation training. Can you go

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over some of the challenges that may come

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that may come with this type of training

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as well? The biggest challenges are that we

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are doing, we can't copy anyone. So

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because we are leading

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by, like, we're so many years ahead of

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anyone else in simulation training,

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We can't just go, oh, let's copy what

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someone else is doing, but do it better.

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We literally have to invent everything, including

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how do you sell this? How do you

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communicate this to the market? How do you

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go to a DSO and show them

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this,

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type of training that we do? So that's

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the most difficult challenge is when you have

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to build everything from zero.

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I mean, it's good in that you have

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a huge head start on the rest of

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the world, but

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it is difficult. It's like it's like being

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the bow of an icebreaker. You know, you're

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always smashing into the ice as you break

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through.

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The other challenges,

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that we are doing something that's never been

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done before from a training point of view.

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We train more dentists say in restorative dentistry,

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we run the largest continuum in the world

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now. And then when we go into a

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DSO,

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there's never been an organization

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that could

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scale up training so quickly and to such

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an extent.

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And so,

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like our pipeline of DSOs is like crazy.

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There's like,

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we've gone from,

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I don't know, fifteen, twenty

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DSOs in our pipeline. Before I moved to

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America, we took us a year to get

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to about 20,

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and then it's taken us, like,

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two months to go to nearly 80.

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And so the demand is

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insane,

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but

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it, it's no longer an education problem at

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this scale. It's a change management problem.

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So the biggest challenge is you have to

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run a very

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refined change management process as you roll this

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out with a group.

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If you just sit there and you're

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hairless with your implementation. And about three years

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ago with one of our very first groups,

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we didn't know all of this. And, you

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know, if you're careless with how you roll

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things out, you can get change management failure,

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which,

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the reason we're,

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so I guess the reason we put so

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much emphasis on it is we've seen how

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badly it can go if you don't put

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emphasis on it. So that's a big part

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of our skillset is understanding

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both the psychology of dentists and how you

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train them, but also

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the change management process of working with a

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large organization to roll it out so it

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actually works.

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Okay. Yeah. Super important. Thank you for sharing

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more about that.

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Moving on to, another topic here. I'm also

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curious to know what are you most excited

280
00:09:19,700 --> 00:09:21,539
about when it comes to dentistry at this

281
00:09:21,539 --> 00:09:23,220
point and what makes you nervous about the

282
00:09:23,220 --> 00:09:23,720
industry?

283
00:09:25,059 --> 00:09:27,700
I think I'm excited with the pace of

284
00:09:27,700 --> 00:09:29,824
innovation. The thing that actually is exciting and

285
00:09:29,824 --> 00:09:32,065
scary is the same thing. The pace of

286
00:09:32,065 --> 00:09:33,024
innovation, like,

287
00:09:34,384 --> 00:09:36,944
there's tools coming out now that just make

288
00:09:36,944 --> 00:09:39,105
life so much easier, and they make dentists

289
00:09:39,105 --> 00:09:40,164
so much more productive.

290
00:09:40,544 --> 00:09:43,044
You know, the three d printing techniques, the

291
00:09:43,889 --> 00:09:44,389
automated

292
00:09:44,769 --> 00:09:48,129
design software that takes scans and automatically designs

293
00:09:48,129 --> 00:09:50,069
the crowns or the onlays and things,

294
00:09:50,769 --> 00:09:51,269
the

295
00:09:51,649 --> 00:09:55,429
automated radiograph reading, all of these things are

296
00:09:55,490 --> 00:09:56,389
super exciting.

297
00:09:56,690 --> 00:09:57,990
I find it, like,

298
00:09:58,384 --> 00:09:59,764
just so, so cool.

299
00:10:00,225 --> 00:10:01,764
I guess the thing that makes me nervous

300
00:10:01,825 --> 00:10:02,325
is

301
00:10:03,345 --> 00:10:05,445
one. How do you keep up with such,

302
00:10:06,384 --> 00:10:08,945
it's not just that, you know, the pace

303
00:10:08,945 --> 00:10:11,684
of innovation is, is accelerating exponentially.

304
00:10:12,929 --> 00:10:15,889
And so just keeping up is actually getting

305
00:10:15,889 --> 00:10:16,950
more and more tiresome.

306
00:10:18,690 --> 00:10:20,309
And, you know, at some point

307
00:10:20,929 --> 00:10:21,750
in the

308
00:10:22,450 --> 00:10:24,149
near to long term future,

309
00:10:24,610 --> 00:10:25,934
we're we're going to need to start thinking

310
00:10:25,934 --> 00:10:28,575
about how do we integrate robotics into clinical

311
00:10:28,575 --> 00:10:29,075
work.

312
00:10:29,934 --> 00:10:31,934
And that's once again, it's one of those

313
00:10:31,934 --> 00:10:33,934
things that's both exciting and kind of scary.

314
00:10:33,934 --> 00:10:34,595
Like it's,

315
00:10:34,975 --> 00:10:36,274
it's hard to visualize,

316
00:10:37,799 --> 00:10:40,139
the speed of advancement in these areas. So,

317
00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:41,100
yeah, I think

318
00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:44,120
technology and innovation is always a double edged

319
00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:45,899
sword. You know, it's, it's

320
00:10:47,240 --> 00:10:47,740
fantastic.

321
00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:49,259
It's kind of scary.

322
00:10:50,465 --> 00:10:52,485
But the new the new dentist graduating

323
00:10:53,185 --> 00:10:55,105
in this environment, that's all they will ever

324
00:10:55,105 --> 00:10:57,185
know. So for them, it won't be scary.

325
00:10:57,185 --> 00:10:58,245
It'll just be normal.

326
00:10:59,105 --> 00:11:01,045
True. Yeah. That's a good point to make.

327
00:11:01,345 --> 00:11:02,865
And and I know I've spoken to so

328
00:11:02,865 --> 00:11:06,220
many dental leaders previously about the risks that

329
00:11:06,220 --> 00:11:08,139
kind of come with not investing in new

330
00:11:08,139 --> 00:11:10,299
technology and not keeping pace. And as you

331
00:11:10,299 --> 00:11:12,220
said, it's advancing so quickly. So this is

332
00:11:12,220 --> 00:11:12,720
definitely

333
00:11:13,100 --> 00:11:15,580
an important issue, in dentistry right now. But

334
00:11:15,580 --> 00:11:16,779
I know that there are a lot of

335
00:11:16,779 --> 00:11:18,539
dentists out there who are finding it hard

336
00:11:18,539 --> 00:11:20,139
to keep up with the pace of innovation,

337
00:11:20,139 --> 00:11:20,985
as you said.

338
00:11:21,464 --> 00:11:22,985
What do you think is challenging about keeping

339
00:11:22,985 --> 00:11:24,125
up? Is it just

340
00:11:24,985 --> 00:11:27,225
the amount that's, you know, out there? Is

341
00:11:27,225 --> 00:11:30,184
it, the cost, the time, you know, the

342
00:11:30,184 --> 00:11:31,704
the effort that it takes to to train

343
00:11:31,704 --> 00:11:32,424
on these things?

344
00:11:32,904 --> 00:11:34,445
What can you tell me about that?

345
00:11:35,500 --> 00:11:37,180
I think it's just the effort more than

346
00:11:37,180 --> 00:11:38,059
any other thing.

347
00:11:38,779 --> 00:11:40,460
Like, some of these programs are expensive. I

348
00:11:40,460 --> 00:11:42,379
mean, you know, a a rule that I

349
00:11:42,379 --> 00:11:43,440
read in a

350
00:11:43,820 --> 00:11:45,420
book, it was like some sort of practice

351
00:11:45,420 --> 00:11:46,700
management book that I read when I was

352
00:11:46,700 --> 00:11:50,125
at dental school, and it said, you know,

353
00:11:50,125 --> 00:11:52,065
basically, don't be first and don't be last.

354
00:11:52,284 --> 00:11:53,644
And I think that's a pretty good rule

355
00:11:53,644 --> 00:11:54,544
to follow. Like,

356
00:11:55,004 --> 00:11:57,085
there's a small percentage of people who just

357
00:11:57,085 --> 00:11:59,245
love to be cutting edge, but cutting edge

358
00:11:59,245 --> 00:12:01,644
is always very risky because you also find

359
00:12:01,644 --> 00:12:03,184
out all the things that don't work.

360
00:12:03,804 --> 00:12:05,939
So you don't wanna be for the average

361
00:12:05,939 --> 00:12:08,659
dentist. You don't need to be first. There's

362
00:12:08,659 --> 00:12:10,199
someone else who's happy to

363
00:12:11,139 --> 00:12:13,539
pry things out. And if they find that

364
00:12:13,539 --> 00:12:14,199
it works

365
00:12:14,500 --> 00:12:16,500
good on them, they get to be the

366
00:12:16,500 --> 00:12:18,259
tip of the spear and they can market

367
00:12:18,259 --> 00:12:20,445
to all their patients before anyone else can.

368
00:12:20,605 --> 00:12:21,965
But you definitely don't want to be last

369
00:12:21,965 --> 00:12:22,465
either.

370
00:12:22,845 --> 00:12:24,764
So, you know, let people try things out

371
00:12:24,764 --> 00:12:25,965
for a bit and then you start to

372
00:12:25,965 --> 00:12:27,904
get some sense. I think

373
00:12:28,365 --> 00:12:30,044
the thing that makes it hard is it's

374
00:12:30,044 --> 00:12:30,865
just tiring.

375
00:12:31,485 --> 00:12:32,785
Once upon a time,

376
00:12:34,259 --> 00:12:36,100
you could learn something and then you could

377
00:12:36,100 --> 00:12:37,379
kind of put your feet up and chill

378
00:12:37,379 --> 00:12:38,820
for the next two or three years until

379
00:12:38,820 --> 00:12:40,279
they invented something new.

380
00:12:40,740 --> 00:12:41,639
Whereas now

381
00:12:42,419 --> 00:12:42,919
you

382
00:12:43,460 --> 00:12:44,360
have to

383
00:12:44,899 --> 00:12:45,399
continuously

384
00:12:45,779 --> 00:12:46,279
learn

385
00:12:47,044 --> 00:12:49,764
all of the time without stopping because there's

386
00:12:49,764 --> 00:12:50,904
so much new stuff.

387
00:12:51,284 --> 00:12:52,024
And so

388
00:12:52,644 --> 00:12:54,485
if you do that all the time, you

389
00:12:54,485 --> 00:12:56,725
kind of get fit. It's like, you know,

390
00:12:56,725 --> 00:12:58,904
if you go to the gym regularly,

391
00:12:59,769 --> 00:13:00,829
it's not so painful,

392
00:13:01,209 --> 00:13:02,409
but if you want to take some time

393
00:13:02,409 --> 00:13:04,110
off learning all of these new things,

394
00:13:04,649 --> 00:13:06,409
then the catch up period is going to

395
00:13:06,409 --> 00:13:07,769
be super hard. And then some people just

396
00:13:07,769 --> 00:13:09,209
kind of get stuck where they just can't

397
00:13:09,209 --> 00:13:10,110
catch up. So

398
00:13:10,490 --> 00:13:11,149
I think

399
00:13:11,610 --> 00:13:13,450
a little bit of effort all of the

400
00:13:13,450 --> 00:13:13,950
time

401
00:13:14,565 --> 00:13:16,024
solves a lot of these problems,

402
00:13:17,125 --> 00:13:19,044
and just accept that it just doesn't go

403
00:13:19,044 --> 00:13:20,024
away. It's just

404
00:13:21,044 --> 00:13:23,445
you're just having a never ending torrent of

405
00:13:23,445 --> 00:13:24,985
new things coming at you

406
00:13:25,845 --> 00:13:28,264
forever and ever until you retire.

407
00:13:28,725 --> 00:13:29,225
Correct.

408
00:13:29,690 --> 00:13:31,129
Some good points that you make there. So

409
00:13:31,129 --> 00:13:32,350
thank you for sharing those.

410
00:13:32,730 --> 00:13:34,889
Last question for you here. What will the

411
00:13:34,889 --> 00:13:37,049
most effective health care leaders need to be

412
00:13:37,049 --> 00:13:38,909
successful in the next two to three years?

413
00:13:39,529 --> 00:13:40,809
So we get to work with a lot

414
00:13:40,809 --> 00:13:41,870
of health care leaders

415
00:13:42,409 --> 00:13:42,909
across

416
00:13:43,664 --> 00:13:45,924
so many organizations now, and

417
00:13:46,625 --> 00:13:49,264
there's two things that make we can tell

418
00:13:49,264 --> 00:13:51,105
we can tell when they a group has

419
00:13:51,105 --> 00:13:52,085
really good leaders.

420
00:13:53,504 --> 00:13:55,044
Like, you can see it in the group

421
00:13:55,424 --> 00:13:57,459
very quickly if they have good leaders, And

422
00:13:57,459 --> 00:14:00,019
we can also tell if they're, you know,

423
00:14:00,019 --> 00:14:02,019
maybe a little bit challenged in the leadership

424
00:14:02,019 --> 00:14:02,519
department.

425
00:14:03,220 --> 00:14:05,159
So in health care in particular,

426
00:14:06,019 --> 00:14:06,759
you need,

427
00:14:07,860 --> 00:14:08,759
an understanding

428
00:14:09,139 --> 00:14:09,799
of clinicians

429
00:14:10,804 --> 00:14:11,464
and clinician

430
00:14:11,764 --> 00:14:12,264
led

431
00:14:12,804 --> 00:14:13,304
business.

432
00:14:14,084 --> 00:14:16,804
So clinicians are not like normal corporate people

433
00:14:16,804 --> 00:14:18,264
or technology people.

434
00:14:19,044 --> 00:14:21,384
You can't treat them like that. They generally

435
00:14:21,445 --> 00:14:23,144
have a higher standard of

436
00:14:23,450 --> 00:14:25,929
what they think is right because of their

437
00:14:25,929 --> 00:14:27,629
oaths that they make when they graduate.

438
00:14:28,009 --> 00:14:30,730
And also because they get ethics and putting

439
00:14:30,730 --> 00:14:33,049
the patient first drummed into their head from

440
00:14:33,049 --> 00:14:34,750
the day they start dental school.

441
00:14:35,210 --> 00:14:35,370
So,

442
00:14:36,204 --> 00:14:38,605
I've seen, you know, people come from technology

443
00:14:38,605 --> 00:14:41,664
and big corporations and try and bring that

444
00:14:42,125 --> 00:14:45,404
big corporation attitude into dentistry. And it's always

445
00:14:45,404 --> 00:14:46,464
a massive failure.

446
00:14:47,004 --> 00:14:49,825
So they need that clinician understanding that clinician

447
00:14:49,964 --> 00:14:51,105
led approach.

448
00:14:52,379 --> 00:14:54,079
However, if they are a clinician,

449
00:14:54,699 --> 00:14:55,839
they need executive

450
00:14:56,220 --> 00:14:57,839
ability, executive function.

451
00:14:58,379 --> 00:14:59,919
And so what I see frequently

452
00:15:00,779 --> 00:15:03,019
in quite a few say clinical directors or

453
00:15:03,019 --> 00:15:05,500
chief clinical officers is they understand the clinical

454
00:15:05,500 --> 00:15:06,000
bit,

455
00:15:06,424 --> 00:15:08,125
but they don't have executive function.

456
00:15:08,664 --> 00:15:10,264
And it's when you have both those things.

457
00:15:10,264 --> 00:15:12,824
So executive function, like just a simple thing,

458
00:15:12,824 --> 00:15:14,845
like, you know, replying to your emails,

459
00:15:15,304 --> 00:15:17,784
dentists are notorious for not reading their emails

460
00:15:17,784 --> 00:15:19,720
or replying to them. And if you go

461
00:15:19,720 --> 00:15:22,279
into a leadership position, then, you know, answering

462
00:15:22,279 --> 00:15:24,759
your emails is quite important. So, you know,

463
00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:26,860
that, and then how to

464
00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:30,680
effectively communicate to people without just ordering them

465
00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:32,840
or using authority, which as a dentist, you

466
00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:34,059
tend to do a lot because

467
00:15:34,504 --> 00:15:36,664
in a clinical situation, you don't have time

468
00:15:36,664 --> 00:15:37,164
to

469
00:15:38,024 --> 00:15:40,424
go through a whole communication process with your

470
00:15:40,424 --> 00:15:42,524
assistant if the patient's bleeding to death.

471
00:15:42,904 --> 00:15:43,804
So that

472
00:15:44,264 --> 00:15:46,745
is what we see is when you get

473
00:15:46,745 --> 00:15:47,884
a someone who has

474
00:15:48,370 --> 00:15:49,830
good understanding of clinicians

475
00:15:50,769 --> 00:15:52,790
and amazing executive function,

476
00:15:53,410 --> 00:15:55,269
then that group is going to win.

477
00:15:55,970 --> 00:15:57,570
And if you lack either of those things,

478
00:15:57,570 --> 00:15:58,070
then

479
00:15:58,529 --> 00:16:00,710
those groups tend to have EBITDA problems.

480
00:16:02,304 --> 00:16:03,585
Alright. Well, that is all I have for

481
00:16:03,585 --> 00:16:05,105
you today, Doctor. Harris. Thank you so much

482
00:16:05,105 --> 00:16:06,625
for joining us today. It's been a pleasure

483
00:16:06,625 --> 00:16:07,825
speaking with you, and I look forward to

484
00:16:07,825 --> 00:16:09,825
connecting with you again in the future. Thank

485
00:16:09,825 --> 00:16:11,205
you so much for having me.