1 00:00:00,480 --> 00:00:02,560 Hello. This is Arianna Porta Lattan with the 2 00:00:02,560 --> 00:00:04,500 Becker's Dental and DSO review podcast. 3 00:00:04,879 --> 00:00:06,559 I'm thrilled to be joined today by Ian 4 00:00:06,559 --> 00:00:09,519 McNichol, the CEO at Icon Dental Partners. Ian, 5 00:00:09,519 --> 00:00:10,719 thank you so much for being here today. 6 00:00:10,719 --> 00:00:12,639 It's great to have you. Yeah. Thanks for 7 00:00:12,639 --> 00:00:15,134 having me. Excited to join you. Great. To 8 00:00:15,134 --> 00:00:16,734 start us off, can you introduce yourself for 9 00:00:16,734 --> 00:00:18,175 our listeners and tell us a little bit 10 00:00:18,175 --> 00:00:18,994 about your background? 11 00:00:19,855 --> 00:00:21,054 Yeah. I'd be happy to. 12 00:00:21,934 --> 00:00:23,695 My background is a little different. I didn't 13 00:00:23,695 --> 00:00:26,355 didn't start in the dental industry. I actually 14 00:00:26,494 --> 00:00:28,734 began my career as a mechanical engineer. And 15 00:00:28,734 --> 00:00:31,489 so I worked in the high-tech industry for 16 00:00:31,489 --> 00:00:33,270 about ten years and, 17 00:00:33,969 --> 00:00:36,630 semiconductor manufacturing, pretty interesting stuff. 18 00:00:37,009 --> 00:00:39,009 But, I kinda felt like I wanted to 19 00:00:39,009 --> 00:00:40,450 be an entrepreneur. So towards the end of 20 00:00:40,450 --> 00:00:42,689 that, I I got an MBA from University 21 00:00:42,689 --> 00:00:45,234 of Washington. And about twenty years ago, I 22 00:00:45,234 --> 00:00:47,475 quit my job and decided I'm just gonna 23 00:00:47,475 --> 00:00:49,395 become an entrepreneur, and I've been building companies 24 00:00:49,395 --> 00:00:51,715 for the last twenty years. And so got 25 00:00:51,715 --> 00:00:54,675 into the dental industry about fifteen years ago. 26 00:00:54,675 --> 00:00:55,175 Originally, 27 00:00:56,690 --> 00:00:59,510 cofounded a dental marketing agency called Weo Media. 28 00:00:59,969 --> 00:01:01,969 And that company had done really well, and 29 00:01:01,969 --> 00:01:04,209 it's kinda still doing plugging along just fine. 30 00:01:04,209 --> 00:01:05,750 But about five years ago, 31 00:01:06,290 --> 00:01:06,450 I, 32 00:01:07,409 --> 00:01:09,250 decided to get into the group space. And 33 00:01:09,250 --> 00:01:09,750 so 34 00:01:10,174 --> 00:01:12,015 partnered up with one of my former clients, 35 00:01:12,015 --> 00:01:14,255 doctor Jeremy Dixon, who's been in the the 36 00:01:14,255 --> 00:01:16,194 group space for about twenty years himself. 37 00:01:16,814 --> 00:01:19,635 And, yeah, we we started kinda doing some 38 00:01:20,094 --> 00:01:22,094 DSO type consulting work for a few years. 39 00:01:22,094 --> 00:01:23,295 And then after a few years of that, 40 00:01:23,295 --> 00:01:24,895 we decided to build our own group. And 41 00:01:24,895 --> 00:01:25,395 so 42 00:01:25,890 --> 00:01:28,469 that's kind of how ICON got its start. 43 00:01:28,850 --> 00:01:30,770 ICON's a pretty unique group, but it's it's 44 00:01:30,770 --> 00:01:32,210 been a ton of fun. So that's kinda 45 00:01:32,210 --> 00:01:33,670 how I got into the group space. 46 00:01:34,530 --> 00:01:37,250 Very nice. It's always super interesting to hear 47 00:01:37,250 --> 00:01:40,094 from executives and even practitioners who sometimes, 48 00:01:40,655 --> 00:01:42,194 have started off in other industries. 49 00:01:42,894 --> 00:01:46,114 What attracted you initially to the DSO field? 50 00:01:47,454 --> 00:01:49,774 Well, I like I like building companies and 51 00:01:49,774 --> 00:01:51,935 running companies. I like solving problems. I think 52 00:01:51,935 --> 00:01:53,875 that's probably the engineer brain in me. 53 00:01:55,049 --> 00:01:57,530 But, really, it was the consulting with Jeremy. 54 00:01:57,530 --> 00:02:00,009 You know? I kind of started consulting with 55 00:02:00,009 --> 00:02:01,689 him originally just like, oh, I wanna learn 56 00:02:01,689 --> 00:02:03,609 more about these these groups. And this is 57 00:02:03,609 --> 00:02:04,810 back in 2018, 58 00:02:04,810 --> 00:02:06,829 you know, seven years ago when we started 59 00:02:07,129 --> 00:02:08,110 consulting together. 60 00:02:08,665 --> 00:02:10,105 And after a few years of that, you 61 00:02:10,105 --> 00:02:11,385 know, I just got to learning a lot 62 00:02:11,385 --> 00:02:12,365 more about the group 63 00:02:12,825 --> 00:02:14,105 space. And it's like, man, this is this 64 00:02:14,105 --> 00:02:16,264 is really interesting. I like dental. I like 65 00:02:16,264 --> 00:02:18,105 building companies. This just makes a lot of 66 00:02:18,105 --> 00:02:19,865 sense. And, you know, we we spent a 67 00:02:19,865 --> 00:02:20,925 fair amount of time, 68 00:02:21,500 --> 00:02:23,500 you know, analyzing some of the weaknesses and 69 00:02:23,500 --> 00:02:25,680 a lot of current DSO models. And so 70 00:02:25,979 --> 00:02:27,680 we spent a lot of time carefully 71 00:02:28,219 --> 00:02:30,219 thinking how do we change the model to 72 00:02:30,219 --> 00:02:31,819 address a lot of the shortcomings and then 73 00:02:31,819 --> 00:02:33,099 more of the corporate model. And so our 74 00:02:33,099 --> 00:02:34,479 partnership model is really 75 00:02:34,780 --> 00:02:36,879 much better for the doctors. And so, 76 00:02:37,625 --> 00:02:38,905 yeah, I just felt like, you know, we 77 00:02:38,905 --> 00:02:40,425 we wanted to build a better mouse trap, 78 00:02:40,425 --> 00:02:41,625 and I think we've done that. So, yeah, 79 00:02:41,625 --> 00:02:43,145 it was it was kind of a a 80 00:02:43,145 --> 00:02:44,665 challenge that needed to be solved, and so 81 00:02:44,665 --> 00:02:46,125 we we set about to do it. 82 00:02:46,905 --> 00:02:49,145 Great. And I always like to ask this 83 00:02:49,145 --> 00:02:51,385 question when I speak to people who come 84 00:02:51,385 --> 00:02:54,000 from other backgrounds. But is there anything that 85 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:56,960 you take from your experience in mechanical engineering 86 00:02:56,960 --> 00:02:58,900 into your work today leading a DSO? 87 00:02:59,919 --> 00:03:02,000 Oh, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, obviously, it's a 88 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:04,419 very different world. You know? But 89 00:03:05,055 --> 00:03:06,034 the the ability 90 00:03:06,735 --> 00:03:08,415 to kind of look at a situation and 91 00:03:08,415 --> 00:03:10,435 and try to understand what are the different, 92 00:03:10,655 --> 00:03:11,155 you 93 00:03:11,775 --> 00:03:13,775 know, variables that are that are causing a 94 00:03:13,775 --> 00:03:15,455 problem here, and how do we kinda break 95 00:03:15,455 --> 00:03:17,849 it down, you know, systematically and just figure 96 00:03:17,849 --> 00:03:19,449 how do we solve this. And it's, you 97 00:03:19,449 --> 00:03:20,830 know, engineering is 98 00:03:21,689 --> 00:03:23,530 we teach a lot of Kaizen back in 99 00:03:23,530 --> 00:03:25,050 the day, and it's become more popular in 100 00:03:25,050 --> 00:03:26,729 the business world now. But it's it's essentially 101 00:03:26,729 --> 00:03:30,425 a continuous improvement process. And so that philosophy 102 00:03:30,564 --> 00:03:32,245 applies to any kind of whether it's a 103 00:03:32,245 --> 00:03:34,025 technical issue, a science issue, 104 00:03:34,405 --> 00:03:35,465 or a people issue. 105 00:03:36,324 --> 00:03:38,245 It's it's the same kind of mindset. And 106 00:03:38,245 --> 00:03:38,745 so, 107 00:03:39,044 --> 00:03:40,485 you know, when you're when you're running a 108 00:03:40,485 --> 00:03:41,305 dental group, 109 00:03:41,685 --> 00:03:44,010 like I do, it's it's it's people. Right? 110 00:03:44,010 --> 00:03:46,090 I mean, yes, processes, of course, matter, but 111 00:03:46,090 --> 00:03:47,469 it's really about the people. 112 00:03:47,849 --> 00:03:48,590 And so, 113 00:03:49,610 --> 00:03:51,370 making sure that you're building the culture the 114 00:03:51,370 --> 00:03:53,129 right way and and solving all these kind 115 00:03:53,129 --> 00:03:56,245 of challenges technically and remote workforces and all 116 00:03:56,245 --> 00:03:57,685 kinds of things that we have nowadays with 117 00:03:57,685 --> 00:03:59,764 Zoom and stuff like that. It's it's been 118 00:03:59,764 --> 00:04:01,044 a ton of fun. It just it it 119 00:04:01,044 --> 00:04:04,004 continues to, you know, challenge the the problem 120 00:04:04,004 --> 00:04:05,844 solving side of my brain that I enjoy. 121 00:04:05,844 --> 00:04:07,125 So, yeah, it's it's been a lot of 122 00:04:07,125 --> 00:04:07,625 fun. 123 00:04:08,290 --> 00:04:09,030 Great to 124 00:04:09,330 --> 00:04:11,569 hear. Next question here. What are some of 125 00:04:11,569 --> 00:04:13,409 the biggest issues you're following in the dental 126 00:04:13,409 --> 00:04:14,469 industry this year? 127 00:04:15,409 --> 00:04:17,490 Yeah. There's been some pretty interesting stuff happening 128 00:04:17,490 --> 00:04:18,050 for sure. 129 00:04:18,850 --> 00:04:20,449 I think something that just was out of 130 00:04:20,449 --> 00:04:22,129 the blue that nobody saw coming was this 131 00:04:22,129 --> 00:04:23,670 Delta Dental of Wisconsin, 132 00:04:24,504 --> 00:04:26,824 acquisition of Cherry Tree Dental. That was pretty 133 00:04:26,824 --> 00:04:28,845 shocking. I'm still shocked about that. 134 00:04:29,464 --> 00:04:31,705 I'm really curious to see how that plays 135 00:04:31,705 --> 00:04:34,025 out in the courts and so forth if 136 00:04:34,025 --> 00:04:35,245 that's allowed to stand. 137 00:04:36,185 --> 00:04:38,540 I think there's a fundamental conflict with an 138 00:04:38,540 --> 00:04:41,100 insurance company owning a dental group. Don't think 139 00:04:41,100 --> 00:04:42,240 that's great for dentistry, 140 00:04:43,100 --> 00:04:45,579 but that's super interesting. I didn't see that 141 00:04:45,579 --> 00:04:46,079 coming. 142 00:04:46,620 --> 00:04:48,079 Also the current administration, 143 00:04:48,620 --> 00:04:50,355 you know, with the Medicaid cuts, 144 00:04:51,475 --> 00:04:53,095 that's, you know, a bit concerning. 145 00:04:53,634 --> 00:04:55,555 And so we'll see how that plays out. 146 00:04:55,555 --> 00:04:57,074 The last thing we want to do is 147 00:04:57,074 --> 00:04:59,475 is cut health care to low income people. 148 00:04:59,475 --> 00:05:01,395 I think that's the wrong way we should 149 00:05:01,395 --> 00:05:02,055 be going. 150 00:05:02,675 --> 00:05:04,194 So that's got me a little, you know, 151 00:05:04,194 --> 00:05:05,870 concerned checking that out. 152 00:05:06,889 --> 00:05:09,610 You know, staffing shortages is continuing to be 153 00:05:09,610 --> 00:05:11,689 a problem. It has been since COVID. Obviously, 154 00:05:11,689 --> 00:05:14,009 COVID made it worse. That's something, you know, 155 00:05:14,009 --> 00:05:17,449 we we are always focusing on and struggling 156 00:05:17,449 --> 00:05:19,069 with, you know, in some of our practices. 157 00:05:20,225 --> 00:05:21,824 So that's that's an issue. And then the 158 00:05:21,824 --> 00:05:23,345 other big issue that's not really an issue, 159 00:05:23,345 --> 00:05:25,585 but an opportunity, I guess, would be just 160 00:05:25,585 --> 00:05:26,404 this proliferation 161 00:05:26,705 --> 00:05:28,165 of all the new AI 162 00:05:28,705 --> 00:05:30,625 tools and services rolling out. It's just it's 163 00:05:30,625 --> 00:05:32,545 just at a a breakneck speed. It's kinda 164 00:05:32,545 --> 00:05:34,384 crazy how many new things are coming out, 165 00:05:34,384 --> 00:05:36,199 and a lot of them are not well 166 00:05:36,199 --> 00:05:38,360 developed yet because AI is still in its 167 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:40,199 infancy. But, I mean, three to five years 168 00:05:40,199 --> 00:05:41,480 from now, I think the amount of things 169 00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:42,840 we can do with AI in this industry 170 00:05:42,840 --> 00:05:44,060 is gonna be mind blowing. 171 00:05:44,920 --> 00:05:45,420 Okay. 172 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:47,819 And some of the things you just mentioned 173 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:48,345 might, 174 00:05:49,305 --> 00:05:51,225 play into your next answer here, but I 175 00:05:51,225 --> 00:05:52,584 was curious to know what are you most 176 00:05:52,584 --> 00:05:53,964 excited about when it comes, 177 00:05:54,745 --> 00:05:56,985 to dentistry right now, and what makes you 178 00:05:56,985 --> 00:05:58,045 nervous about dentistry? 179 00:05:59,785 --> 00:06:01,625 I think what I'm most excited about, yeah, 180 00:06:01,625 --> 00:06:03,270 is would be the AI stuff. You know, 181 00:06:03,270 --> 00:06:04,330 we are piloting, 182 00:06:04,710 --> 00:06:06,250 I mean, four 183 00:06:06,790 --> 00:06:09,670 four different AI technologies right now across ICON, 184 00:06:09,670 --> 00:06:10,649 across our platform. 185 00:06:11,270 --> 00:06:13,930 And it's it's really interesting. You know? The 186 00:06:13,990 --> 00:06:16,149 the AI, you know, it can relieve pain 187 00:06:16,149 --> 00:06:18,365 points both at the practice level and the 188 00:06:18,365 --> 00:06:20,125 platform level. And so we're looking at things 189 00:06:20,125 --> 00:06:22,225 to help with revenue cycle management and 190 00:06:22,764 --> 00:06:25,345 marketing and, you know, AI receptionist type services 191 00:06:25,564 --> 00:06:28,444 and insurance verification and eligibility checks and all. 192 00:06:28,444 --> 00:06:30,225 Just a lot of stuff that is 193 00:06:31,050 --> 00:06:33,370 not, you know, the sexy part of running 194 00:06:33,370 --> 00:06:35,370 a practice that the team members don't typically 195 00:06:35,370 --> 00:06:37,290 love to do. I think to the degree 196 00:06:37,290 --> 00:06:40,169 that these AI companies can continue to solve 197 00:06:40,169 --> 00:06:42,970 those problems, it's gonna really help the practices 198 00:06:42,970 --> 00:06:45,324 and the platforms out quite a bit. Our 199 00:06:45,324 --> 00:06:46,925 philosophy is we're not trying to make them 200 00:06:46,925 --> 00:06:48,685 more productive so we can let people go. 201 00:06:48,685 --> 00:06:51,084 In fact, we purposely structure our company, so 202 00:06:51,084 --> 00:06:53,104 we have no control over the practice staffing, 203 00:06:53,245 --> 00:06:55,245 which gives the doctors that full control that 204 00:06:55,245 --> 00:06:57,004 that, you know, full autonomy that's at the 205 00:06:57,004 --> 00:06:59,664 staffing and clinical decision making and all that. 206 00:06:59,810 --> 00:07:00,710 What we wanna do 207 00:07:01,569 --> 00:07:03,350 is let's take burden off 208 00:07:03,730 --> 00:07:05,810 of the team members shoulders, you know, so 209 00:07:05,810 --> 00:07:08,470 they can spend more time on patient care 210 00:07:08,850 --> 00:07:10,770 or doing recall or do you know, having 211 00:07:10,770 --> 00:07:12,850 people do things that the technology can't do. 212 00:07:12,850 --> 00:07:14,050 Right? Let the tech do what the tech 213 00:07:14,050 --> 00:07:16,235 can do. Let people focus on things that 214 00:07:16,235 --> 00:07:18,634 people are better at. And so I'm really 215 00:07:18,634 --> 00:07:20,875 excited to see how AI continues to solve 216 00:07:20,875 --> 00:07:22,314 some of the pain points, but also just 217 00:07:22,314 --> 00:07:24,394 making us all a lot more productive and 218 00:07:24,394 --> 00:07:25,615 ultimately more profitable. 219 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:28,360 That's that's a pretty cool thing that I 220 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:30,680 think I'm excited about. I think probably most 221 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:33,000 people would share that that that that viewpoint, 222 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:34,779 but with the AI coming on board. 223 00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:36,860 Nervous. 224 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:39,080 I think the stuff that makes me the 225 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:40,860 most most nervous would be, 226 00:07:41,535 --> 00:07:43,535 you know, the economy a little bit and 227 00:07:43,535 --> 00:07:45,055 related to that, like I said, the Medicaid 228 00:07:45,055 --> 00:07:46,735 cuts and just what happens with with those 229 00:07:46,735 --> 00:07:49,294 types of things with insurance reimbursements going down 230 00:07:49,294 --> 00:07:51,134 constantly. Those are not great things for the 231 00:07:51,134 --> 00:07:51,634 industry. 232 00:07:53,230 --> 00:07:54,910 Staffing, I think just continues to be a 233 00:07:54,910 --> 00:07:56,290 bugger. You know, I think 234 00:07:56,750 --> 00:07:57,810 associate doctors, 235 00:07:58,509 --> 00:08:00,830 getting them onboarded and training them up, that's 236 00:08:00,830 --> 00:08:01,889 that's a big thing. 237 00:08:02,270 --> 00:08:04,509 And just, you know, hygienists to a large 238 00:08:04,509 --> 00:08:06,850 degree continues to be a challenge. And so 239 00:08:07,230 --> 00:08:08,454 I think it would be great, you know, 240 00:08:08,454 --> 00:08:10,055 if the country can open more dental schools 241 00:08:10,055 --> 00:08:12,055 and more hygiene schools and more assisting schools, 242 00:08:12,055 --> 00:08:12,714 you know, 243 00:08:13,175 --> 00:08:14,854 that would be super helpful. So those are 244 00:08:14,854 --> 00:08:16,134 the things that I guess would make me 245 00:08:16,134 --> 00:08:17,574 a little bit nervous that I'm keeping an 246 00:08:17,574 --> 00:08:18,314 eye on. 247 00:08:19,014 --> 00:08:21,149 Yeah. Definitely. And that's something I've heard from 248 00:08:21,389 --> 00:08:23,389 other dental leaders recently is just, 249 00:08:24,029 --> 00:08:25,329 you know, there's no shortage 250 00:08:25,870 --> 00:08:28,610 of necessarily people who want to be hygienists 251 00:08:28,669 --> 00:08:30,370 or dentists, but maybe we're not 252 00:08:30,910 --> 00:08:32,190 producing as many, 253 00:08:32,509 --> 00:08:33,809 as far as, like, the 254 00:08:34,125 --> 00:08:36,524 dental assisting and dental hygiene schools and then 255 00:08:36,524 --> 00:08:38,384 the dental schools overall. 256 00:08:39,004 --> 00:08:41,985 Is there anything that Icon is doing differently 257 00:08:42,524 --> 00:08:45,725 this year to help attract more hygienists and 258 00:08:45,725 --> 00:08:46,225 dentists? 259 00:08:47,165 --> 00:08:48,549 Yeah. That's a great question. I mean, it's 260 00:08:48,549 --> 00:08:50,309 something that I think every group is is 261 00:08:50,309 --> 00:08:52,710 always noodling on and struggling with and and 262 00:08:52,710 --> 00:08:54,090 testing things. You know? 263 00:08:54,629 --> 00:08:56,549 So, you know, our our team, we've done 264 00:08:56,549 --> 00:08:58,230 a pretty good job of, 265 00:08:59,029 --> 00:09:01,190 you know, finding good candidates in in in 266 00:09:01,190 --> 00:09:03,029 general. But it's interesting as we look across 267 00:09:03,029 --> 00:09:03,745 the platform, 268 00:09:04,365 --> 00:09:05,024 you know, 269 00:09:05,404 --> 00:09:05,904 we 270 00:09:06,284 --> 00:09:08,284 we have most of our practices are doing 271 00:09:08,284 --> 00:09:10,764 really well financially. They're growing. Their EBITDA is 272 00:09:10,764 --> 00:09:12,945 up. Margin improvement, great stuff. 273 00:09:13,565 --> 00:09:14,225 The practices 274 00:09:14,684 --> 00:09:17,500 that are struggling are flat or down in 275 00:09:17,500 --> 00:09:19,679 revenue production EBITDA and so forth. 276 00:09:20,139 --> 00:09:23,019 It's almost always been tied to shorting of, 277 00:09:23,019 --> 00:09:25,179 like, associate doctor left, haven't been able to 278 00:09:25,179 --> 00:09:27,419 replace them. Hygienists left, haven't been able to 279 00:09:27,419 --> 00:09:28,240 replace them. 280 00:09:28,824 --> 00:09:30,524 When we look across our platform, 281 00:09:30,985 --> 00:09:33,225 the practices that are down or or or 282 00:09:33,225 --> 00:09:35,704 struggling a bit, it's almost always related to 283 00:09:35,704 --> 00:09:36,204 staffing. 284 00:09:36,664 --> 00:09:38,424 And so yeah. I mean, you know, creative 285 00:09:38,424 --> 00:09:39,625 things that we've done to try to solve 286 00:09:39,625 --> 00:09:41,144 that problem. You know, we have a pretty 287 00:09:41,144 --> 00:09:42,365 strong HR team. 288 00:09:42,940 --> 00:09:45,180 We call people and culture as as as 289 00:09:45,180 --> 00:09:45,680 HR. 290 00:09:47,019 --> 00:09:48,300 But, yeah, I mean, you know, a lot 291 00:09:48,300 --> 00:09:50,940 of the the typical stuff. Right? Social media 292 00:09:50,940 --> 00:09:51,440 groups, 293 00:09:51,820 --> 00:09:54,320 reaching out, you know, personal people's personal networks. 294 00:09:55,180 --> 00:09:57,924 There's lots of different, I guess, strategies that 295 00:09:57,924 --> 00:09:59,445 that we all use to try to get 296 00:09:59,445 --> 00:10:01,125 in front of doctors and stuff like that 297 00:10:01,125 --> 00:10:02,965 and and the hygienists. But I don't know 298 00:10:02,965 --> 00:10:04,725 that we've figured out anything new or innovative. 299 00:10:04,725 --> 00:10:06,565 We're just trying to execute really well on 300 00:10:06,565 --> 00:10:08,164 on kind of a tried and true plan. 301 00:10:08,164 --> 00:10:08,404 So 302 00:10:10,059 --> 00:10:10,559 Alright. 303 00:10:11,100 --> 00:10:12,940 And last question here. What will the most 304 00:10:12,940 --> 00:10:15,339 effective health care leaders need to be successful 305 00:10:15,339 --> 00:10:16,799 in the next two to three years? 306 00:10:18,700 --> 00:10:20,620 I don't think that that really changes much, 307 00:10:20,620 --> 00:10:23,754 honestly, from past to to future. It's really 308 00:10:23,754 --> 00:10:26,075 focusing on people and culture. I think that's 309 00:10:26,075 --> 00:10:27,754 always the secret sauce in any company. It 310 00:10:27,754 --> 00:10:29,514 doesn't really matter what kind of company you 311 00:10:29,514 --> 00:10:30,495 have. If you can 312 00:10:30,955 --> 00:10:32,414 do a good job on, 313 00:10:32,875 --> 00:10:35,274 you know, onboarding the right people that fit 314 00:10:35,274 --> 00:10:37,034 your culture and then making sure you're doing 315 00:10:37,034 --> 00:10:39,269 things to maintain the culture. Definitely 316 00:10:39,649 --> 00:10:42,450 process matters and having good management systems matter. 317 00:10:42,450 --> 00:10:44,210 And all all these things are super important. 318 00:10:44,210 --> 00:10:46,129 But if I had to rank them, you 319 00:10:46,129 --> 00:10:47,570 know, if if you don't get the culture 320 00:10:47,570 --> 00:10:50,230 right, it's gonna make everything else more challenging. 321 00:10:51,035 --> 00:10:53,115 We just came off of a executive retreat 322 00:10:53,115 --> 00:10:55,274 this week, and we had, you know, our 323 00:10:55,274 --> 00:10:57,595 our directors, VPs, and c suite altogether for 324 00:10:57,595 --> 00:10:59,195 the week. And it was just an awesome 325 00:10:59,195 --> 00:10:59,695 experience. 326 00:11:00,154 --> 00:11:01,695 We try to do it once a quarter. 327 00:11:02,154 --> 00:11:04,715 And it's just it's it's a really critical 328 00:11:04,715 --> 00:11:07,589 ingredient because, you know, with most companies now, 329 00:11:07,589 --> 00:11:08,889 we have remote workforces. 330 00:11:09,190 --> 00:11:11,429 And if you stay fully remote and don't 331 00:11:11,429 --> 00:11:13,110 ever really get to connect with your coworkers 332 00:11:13,110 --> 00:11:15,429 and colleagues, it really makes it tough because 333 00:11:15,429 --> 00:11:17,929 inevitably, every company is gonna have struggles and, 334 00:11:18,154 --> 00:11:20,095 you know, challenges. And if you don't have 335 00:11:20,235 --> 00:11:23,195 that personal relationship with your coworkers, it really 336 00:11:23,195 --> 00:11:25,274 makes it more challenging to navigate that stuff. 337 00:11:25,274 --> 00:11:27,835 So to me, like, I'm always focused on, 338 00:11:27,835 --> 00:11:30,495 like, how is the team doing, culture, communication. 339 00:11:30,875 --> 00:11:32,715 Do we have any problem spots? Let's resolve 340 00:11:32,715 --> 00:11:33,215 them. 341 00:11:34,410 --> 00:11:36,090 That is probably the the biggest thing I 342 00:11:36,090 --> 00:11:38,250 focus on. But beyond that, certainly, the process 343 00:11:38,250 --> 00:11:40,330 optimization stuff. And, again, that's my engineer brain 344 00:11:40,330 --> 00:11:41,950 seeping in there here and there. But, 345 00:11:42,410 --> 00:11:43,610 you know, we have a lot of things 346 00:11:43,610 --> 00:11:44,830 that we're doing to, 347 00:11:45,210 --> 00:11:47,690 you know, project manage effectively to drive, you 348 00:11:47,690 --> 00:11:49,995 know, goal setting and and driving towards those 349 00:11:49,995 --> 00:11:50,975 results. And so 350 00:11:51,355 --> 00:11:52,875 and I and this is not nothing new 351 00:11:52,875 --> 00:11:54,714 that anybody listening to this podcast probably doesn't 352 00:11:54,714 --> 00:11:56,554 realize. It's really about the execution. You know, 353 00:11:56,554 --> 00:11:57,375 how do you 354 00:11:57,914 --> 00:12:00,315 maintain, you know, develop and maintain a great 355 00:12:00,315 --> 00:12:01,774 culture, and how do you effectively, 356 00:12:02,190 --> 00:12:03,649 you know, optimize the practices? 357 00:12:04,190 --> 00:12:05,389 One of the things that I know has 358 00:12:05,389 --> 00:12:07,549 become a lot more prevalent on people's minds 359 00:12:07,549 --> 00:12:09,409 over the last few years due to COVID 360 00:12:09,870 --> 00:12:12,129 is organic growth at the practice level. 361 00:12:12,830 --> 00:12:13,809 You know, investors 362 00:12:14,190 --> 00:12:16,350 and people are generally wanting to see, you 363 00:12:16,350 --> 00:12:18,324 know, hey. It's great that you can do 364 00:12:18,365 --> 00:12:19,424 go out and do acquisitions, 365 00:12:19,804 --> 00:12:21,564 but, you know, can you actually grow those 366 00:12:21,564 --> 00:12:23,884 practices once you've acquired them? And that's that's 367 00:12:23,884 --> 00:12:26,204 another huge thing that I think we're focusing 368 00:12:26,204 --> 00:12:28,384 on is our ability to 369 00:12:29,019 --> 00:12:31,339 to execute on on the growth. And again, 370 00:12:31,339 --> 00:12:32,539 it gets but it gets back to the 371 00:12:32,539 --> 00:12:33,899 people in the culture. Right? If you can 372 00:12:33,899 --> 00:12:34,399 maintain 373 00:12:34,860 --> 00:12:37,740 a great culture, you're more likely to retain 374 00:12:37,740 --> 00:12:39,980 your doctors and hygienists and be better at 375 00:12:39,980 --> 00:12:42,495 recruiting doctors and hygienists. And so if that's 376 00:12:42,495 --> 00:12:44,894 our biggest, you know, challenge with with EBITDA 377 00:12:44,894 --> 00:12:45,394 right 378 00:12:45,774 --> 00:12:47,855 now, then fixing it is to a larger 379 00:12:47,855 --> 00:12:50,095 degree recruiting. Yes. But culture is is is 380 00:12:50,095 --> 00:12:52,335 as as important as well. So it all 381 00:12:52,335 --> 00:12:53,615 kind of ties back to people at the 382 00:12:53,615 --> 00:12:55,554 end of the day, one way or another. 383 00:12:56,789 --> 00:12:58,470 Very true. Some great thoughts from you there. 384 00:12:58,470 --> 00:13:00,309 So thank you for sharing that. That is 385 00:13:00,309 --> 00:13:01,509 all I have for you today, Ian. Thank 386 00:13:01,509 --> 00:13:02,950 you so much for joining us. It's been 387 00:13:02,950 --> 00:13:04,230 a pleasure speaking with you, and I look 388 00:13:04,230 --> 00:13:05,669 forward to connecting with you again in the 389 00:13:05,669 --> 00:13:06,169 future. 390 00:13:06,549 --> 00:13:08,470 Thanks. I appreciate it. Enjoy the rest of 391 00:13:08,470 --> 00:13:10,250 your day. Bye bye. Bye.