Hello. This is Arianna Portolatin with the Becker's
Dental and DSO review podcast. I'm thrilled to
be joined today by Catherine Yale, a fourth
year dental student in Salt Lake City, Utah,
and Josh Whipple, the senior director of talent
and leadership development at PDS Health. Josh, Catherine,
thank you both for being here today. It's
a pleasure to have you both.
Thank you. Thanks so much.
Mhmm. And so today, we're gonna be talking
a bit about dental what dental students are
looking for from DSOs and how DSOs are
going about recruiting dental students.
So to start us off, what is the
current sentiment among graduating dental students on DSOs,
and what are the biggest factors influencing their
decisions when choosing DSOs? Josh, do you want
to start us off?
Sure.
You know, I I I think a lot
of what we're hearing right now from dental
students has to do with,
environmental issues around economics,
financials, etcetera. But
many are looking for the right clinical environment,
which really hasn't changed. I've I've been in
the dental industry for over twenty years, and
they're looking for a great environment, mentorship,
financial stability.
Those are those are some of the things
that we hear often.
Okay. Great. Katharine, what are some, thoughts from
you as a fourth year dental student? How
have the sentiments around DSOs kinda changed, among
your your class of students and yourself?
Yeah. So in preparation
for today, I actually sent out a survey,
to dental students throughout the country,
fourth year specifically to talk about their post
grad plans.
I got over 30 responses from eight different
schools in five different states.
And just talking about some of the, like,
you know, highlights results,
the number one factor influencing job decision,
50% said was mentorship. That's what across the
board, dental students are looking for, me included.
When we talked about DSO specifically,
the overall sentiment was
2.72
stars out of five stars in review.
65
of students said that the reputation of DSOs
among faculty and peers was one of the
top three reasons for that rating.
When you kind of break it down into,
okay, if you have more of a negative
perception versus positive perception,
those who had a negative perception of DSO
said the number one reason was focus on
production.
Number two being lack of clinical autonomy.
On the positive side, they said, predictable work
schedule and work life balance,
strong benefits,
and student loan repayment options.
And I know, Josh, you know, we talked
about this prior. Josh, do you have anything
to add there?
Yeah. I mean, one of the the best
things that
that you can do when working with particularly
with dental students is highlighting the things that
make you,
unique. We hear often the the same things
that Catherine is talking about. Mentorship has been
number one for as long as I can
remember.
And I think the clinical autonomy has also
been a
a a focus. You know? And no one
plans on going to school for four years
and then coming out, without being able to
to practice the way they want to practice.
So
very,
very often spoken of. And and I think
most organizations,
when especially interacting with students,
try to help reassure them that that they'll
have both of those things when they get
out.
And and to your point, Josh, there was
a question on the survey that said, have
you spoken to a dental recruiter?
And those that said yes had a follow-up
question to rank their experience one out of
five stars.
Those that had spoken to a recruiter
had a 3.68
rating out of five
versus those who just in general, we we
were seeing originally that 2.72
stars out of five. So, clearly, when you
speak to recruiters or people in an organization,
it makes a difference for students.
Yeah. That's, definitely interesting. Thank you so much
for sharing those statistics with me, Catherine. Definitely
interesting to hear what those sentiments are from
dental students.
Catherine, another follow-up question for you in particular.
I'd love to to know a bit more
about your experience as a student. What was
your sentiment about DSOs when you started dental
school, and how has that evolved and changed,
going into your fourth year now?
Yeah. So,
for me coming into dental school, I had
heard of DSOs from just mentors in the
past,
older docs, and then also once I was
in school just from faculty.
And, overall, I would say I I didn't
have,
necessarily a positive view of them,
just based on what people were saying. You
know? Oh, it's so production focused and and
not patient focused at all.
But the reason that I have kind of
changed my tune is because of my personal
experience.
When I was attending the American Student Dental
Association's,
national leadership conference in Chicago in 2022,
I attended one,
a talk that was led by three different
dentists that own with DSOs.
And they painted a very different picture than
what I was hearing from
people around me anecdotally.
They were talking about clinical autonomy, patient centered
care. And one of those owners in particular
was from my region, and I thought he
was very straightforward,
open, and honest about his experience,
focused on mentoring and growing younger dentists. So
I actually went to his office
during one of my breaks, and that's how
I got introduced to, Pacific Health and why
I'm interested in pursuing a career there now.
Very interesting. So thank you so much for
sharing that. And and I know that, in
the past speaking with different dental practice owners
over the last few years, there's definitely seems
to be, quite a few misconceptions about the
way DSOs operate and what they can do
for the dentist,
and definitely issues about mentorship and clinical autonomy
among other things.
Josh, I'm curious to hear from you. What's
are there any new strategies that have been
effective when it comes to bridging the gap
between what DSOs are offering and what new
grads are looking for?
Well, I mean, it's a great question. Honestly,
a lot of it has to do with
repeated contact,
with the students. You know, we we try
to get out as often as we can
to the schools to speak with them face
to face.
Every you know, even within private practices, there's
a difference between practice to practice. DSOs, there's
a difference between DSOs from group to group.
And part of what I think is helpful
is getting out and talking to the students
and finding out more about what they're interested
in. Reassuring them that our number one focus
is their long term success.
And that's it. And, you know, obviously, I
think each of us are are
are looking to help them in different ways
and and matching that up. The transparency and
having those conversations
around,
persuading the the those misconceptions
at times and and and helping to to
tell them that, you know, what we're here
for is is you individually, not just someone
like you, but Catherine specifically in this case
is, you know, what can we do to
help her be successful and live out her
her life and her hopes and dreams as
best as possible? So really setting out those
conversations and discussing
expectations
as realistically as possible,
talking about what we can do, what we
can't do, and and where those things match
up, providing them with a a network and
support and a community, mentorship, all those things
are are on the table. And and the
more honest, frank conversations that happen,
whatever group or entity is talking to the
students and and the students themselves
haven't taken some time to evaluate what they're
really looking for, that's that's really what works
every time. It's that real honest conversation.
Yeah. To Josh's point, meeting students where they're
at, whether it's conferences,
externships,
bringing owner docs to the school so that
students could see directly how patient focused or
what the priorities are of, you know, a
a group or an office just specifically, I
think is really important.
Yeah. Catherine's Catherine's right. I mean, we I'm
I'm just one person here, and and what
she really wants to hear from is is
a fellow clinician.
And and I think that's really important to
recognize too. She doesn't need to be sold
by me. She needs to be talked to
by by someone else that's in her position.
What does it really look like day to
day, and what does she really expect when
she gets there?
Yeah. That that's definitely an interesting point to
make as well. I mean, I'm not a
a dental student myself nor have I ever
been, but, I could imagine as a a
dental student, it may be more helpful to
speak directly to a clinician in the field
about DSOs versus an executive who may not
know the day to day issues that a
dentist might face. Would you both agree?
Yes.
Yeah. I would say so. Like, when I
went to visit that office, what I saw
and what kind of attracted me were happy
staff, patients receiving high quality care,
a lot of modern tech, and then hearing
from associates about their experience thus far working
there. I think those things were all key
factors for me. Okay. Yeah. I mean, you
you talked a minute ago or asked the
question around
what what's different now? What what are what's
being offered that might be attractive to students?
And I think that
part of what what is attractive, and and
Catherine can weigh I think should weigh in
on this too, is
staying ahead of where the industry is at
and trying to continue to focus on on
dentistry as a a part of overall health.
And and the more that the technology proven
technology is integrated in, the more that you
have opportunities to to really leverage that and,
expand to the full potential of a health
care professional,
I think that's really attractive to to students
coming out now.
Mhmm.
Okay. Great. And I'd love to dive deeper
into, some other issues that you guys are
following in the industry as well.
Catherine, I'm interested to hear from you in
particular on this next question as someone who's
entering the field soon. What are some of
the biggest issues that you're following in the
dental industry right now?
Oh,
biggest issues that I'm following
are
I guess water fluoridation is pretty big.
The student loan repayment options, obviously, is something
that's really big for a lot of students
right now.
Hygiene,
changes in hygiene that they're introducing
about
dental students and foreign trained dentists that are
going to be able to start doing hygiene,
that kind of thing for sure.
K. And, Josh, what about you? Are there
any other issues that you're paying a close
attention to right now?
You know, I I think that some of
the big opportunities are or part of what
I was talking about earlier is math body
connection,
total integration in health care. Those are things
that just present such big opportunities.
The financial piece that Catherine mentioned is is
also very real. I mean, the the economic
situation that a lot of students find themselves
in when they come out of school is
is, front and center when they come out.
So helping them find financial success and and
understanding that that's something that is attainable by
them and and quickly,
I think, is something that really helps them,
find their stride a little bit better.
So those are couple things.
Okay. Great. And, my last question for you
both here. What are you most excited about
when it comes to dentistry right now, and
what makes you nervous? Catherine, do you wanna
go first again?
Sure. What excites me is definitely,
the technology that's coming out specifically with AI.
I think that there are opportunities
to
streamline things and make patient care a bit
more standardized, which I think is positive for
everyone.
Something that makes me nervous.
The ADA membership,
keeping organized dentistry strong, it it it's on
the decline, and that's something that I think
is important.
Okay. And, Josh, what about you?
Yeah. I mean, from a I'll speak to
the nervous part first. There's not much that
makes me nervous as far as what I'm
seeing right now. There's just there's so much
opportunity,
and the landscape has evolved so much in
the over twenty years that I've been, a
part of this industry
that I think that
there is every opportunity for any student coming
out to be as successful, as wildly successful
as they want to be. So I'll say
that first on the on the excited part,
that's also what makes me excited.
I have friends and family that are in
the industry and in the field, dentists and
in support positions. And one of the things
that that I see happening very quickly is
this continued push around
the integration into health care. There's there's been
so much happening and so many studies that
have come out that talk about,
the overall
improvement in health when,
conditions in the mouth are improved.
And, I think that as we continue to
leverage technology, AI, to Catherine's point,
other technology,
and and systems, I mean, we've
we're on Epic now, and the the connection
between that particular system and other health care
providers
has allowed so much conversation and movement of
information that benefits the patient that I'm I'm
super excited to see where it goes from
here.
Great. Well, thank you both, for sharing your
thoughts there. Definitely
very interesting points that you both made.
And those are all my questions for you
both. So thank you both for joining us
today. It has been a great pleasure speaking
with you, and I look forward to hopefully
connecting with you both again in the future.
Thank you. Thanks.