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Hello. This is Arianna Portolatin with the Becker's

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Dental and DSO review podcast. I'm thrilled to

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be joined today by Catherine Yale, a fourth

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year dental student in Salt Lake City, Utah,

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and Josh Whipple, the senior director of talent

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and leadership development at PDS Health. Josh, Catherine,

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thank you both for being here today. It's

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a pleasure to have you both.

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Thank you. Thanks so much.

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Mhmm. And so today, we're gonna be talking

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a bit about dental what dental students are

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looking for from DSOs and how DSOs are

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going about recruiting dental students.

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So to start us off, what is the

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current sentiment among graduating dental students on DSOs,

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and what are the biggest factors influencing their

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decisions when choosing DSOs? Josh, do you want

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to start us off?

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Sure.

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You know, I I I think a lot

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of what we're hearing right now from dental

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students has to do with,

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environmental issues around economics,

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financials, etcetera. But

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many are looking for the right clinical environment,

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which really hasn't changed. I've I've been in

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the dental industry for over twenty years, and

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they're looking for a great environment, mentorship,

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financial stability.

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Those are those are some of the things

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that we hear often.

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Okay. Great. Katharine, what are some, thoughts from

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you as a fourth year dental student? How

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have the sentiments around DSOs kinda changed, among

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your your class of students and yourself?

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Yeah. So in preparation

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for today, I actually sent out a survey,

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to dental students throughout the country,

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fourth year specifically to talk about their post

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grad plans.

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I got over 30 responses from eight different

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schools in five different states.

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And just talking about some of the, like,

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you know, highlights results,

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the number one factor influencing job decision,

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50% said was mentorship. That's what across the

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board, dental students are looking for, me included.

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When we talked about DSO specifically,

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the overall sentiment was

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2.72

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stars out of five stars in review.

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65

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of students said that the reputation of DSOs

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among faculty and peers was one of the

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top three reasons for that rating.

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When you kind of break it down into,

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okay, if you have more of a negative

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perception versus positive perception,

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those who had a negative perception of DSO

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said the number one reason was focus on

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production.

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Number two being lack of clinical autonomy.

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On the positive side, they said, predictable work

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schedule and work life balance,

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strong benefits,

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and student loan repayment options.

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And I know, Josh, you know, we talked

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about this prior. Josh, do you have anything

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to add there?

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Yeah. I mean, one of the the best

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things that

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that you can do when working with particularly

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with dental students is highlighting the things that

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make you,

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unique. We hear often the the same things

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that Catherine is talking about. Mentorship has been

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number one for as long as I can

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remember.

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And I think the clinical autonomy has also

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been a

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a a focus. You know? And no one

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plans on going to school for four years

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and then coming out, without being able to

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to practice the way they want to practice.

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So

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very,

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very often spoken of. And and I think

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most organizations,

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when especially interacting with students,

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try to help reassure them that that they'll

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have both of those things when they get

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out.

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And and to your point, Josh, there was

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a question on the survey that said, have

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you spoken to a dental recruiter?

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And those that said yes had a follow-up

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question to rank their experience one out of

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five stars.

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Those that had spoken to a recruiter

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had a 3.68

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rating out of five

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versus those who just in general, we we

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were seeing originally that 2.72

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stars out of five. So, clearly, when you

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speak to recruiters or people in an organization,

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it makes a difference for students.

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Yeah. That's, definitely interesting. Thank you so much

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for sharing those statistics with me, Catherine. Definitely

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interesting to hear what those sentiments are from

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dental students.

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Catherine, another follow-up question for you in particular.

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I'd love to to know a bit more

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about your experience as a student. What was

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your sentiment about DSOs when you started dental

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school, and how has that evolved and changed,

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going into your fourth year now?

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Yeah. So,

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for me coming into dental school, I had

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heard of DSOs from just mentors in the

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past,

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older docs, and then also once I was

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in school just from faculty.

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And, overall, I would say I I didn't

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have,

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necessarily a positive view of them,

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just based on what people were saying. You

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know? Oh, it's so production focused and and

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not patient focused at all.

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But the reason that I have kind of

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changed my tune is because of my personal

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experience.

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When I was attending the American Student Dental

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Association's,

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national leadership conference in Chicago in 2022,

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I attended one,

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a talk that was led by three different

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dentists that own with DSOs.

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And they painted a very different picture than

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what I was hearing from

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people around me anecdotally.

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They were talking about clinical autonomy, patient centered

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care. And one of those owners in particular

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was from my region, and I thought he

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was very straightforward,

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open, and honest about his experience,

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focused on mentoring and growing younger dentists. So

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I actually went to his office

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during one of my breaks, and that's how

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I got introduced to, Pacific Health and why

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I'm interested in pursuing a career there now.

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Very interesting. So thank you so much for

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sharing that. And and I know that, in

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the past speaking with different dental practice owners

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over the last few years, there's definitely seems

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to be, quite a few misconceptions about the

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way DSOs operate and what they can do

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for the dentist,

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and definitely issues about mentorship and clinical autonomy

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among other things.

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Josh, I'm curious to hear from you. What's

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are there any new strategies that have been

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effective when it comes to bridging the gap

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between what DSOs are offering and what new

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grads are looking for?

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Well, I mean, it's a great question. Honestly,

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a lot of it has to do with

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repeated contact,

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with the students. You know, we we try

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to get out as often as we can

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to the schools to speak with them face

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to face.

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Every you know, even within private practices, there's

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a difference between practice to practice. DSOs, there's

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a difference between DSOs from group to group.

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And part of what I think is helpful

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is getting out and talking to the students

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and finding out more about what they're interested

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in. Reassuring them that our number one focus

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is their long term success.

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And that's it. And, you know, obviously, I

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think each of us are are

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are looking to help them in different ways

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and and matching that up. The transparency and

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having those conversations

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around,

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persuading the the those misconceptions

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at times and and and helping to to

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tell them that, you know, what we're here

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for is is you individually, not just someone

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like you, but Catherine specifically in this case

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is, you know, what can we do to

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help her be successful and live out her

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her life and her hopes and dreams as

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best as possible? So really setting out those

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conversations and discussing

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expectations

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as realistically as possible,

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talking about what we can do, what we

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can't do, and and where those things match

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up, providing them with a a network and

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support and a community, mentorship, all those things

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are are on the table. And and the

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more honest, frank conversations that happen,

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whatever group or entity is talking to the

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students and and the students themselves

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haven't taken some time to evaluate what they're

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really looking for, that's that's really what works

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every time. It's that real honest conversation.

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Yeah. To Josh's point, meeting students where they're

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at, whether it's conferences,

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externships,

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bringing owner docs to the school so that

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students could see directly how patient focused or

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what the priorities are of, you know, a

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a group or an office just specifically, I

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think is really important.

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Yeah. Catherine's Catherine's right. I mean, we I'm

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I'm just one person here, and and what

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she really wants to hear from is is

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a fellow clinician.

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And and I think that's really important to

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recognize too. She doesn't need to be sold

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by me. She needs to be talked to

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by by someone else that's in her position.

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What does it really look like day to

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day, and what does she really expect when

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she gets there?

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Yeah. That that's definitely an interesting point to

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make as well. I mean, I'm not a

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a dental student myself nor have I ever

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been, but, I could imagine as a a

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dental student, it may be more helpful to

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speak directly to a clinician in the field

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about DSOs versus an executive who may not

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know the day to day issues that a

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dentist might face. Would you both agree?

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Yes.

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Yeah. I would say so. Like, when I

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went to visit that office, what I saw

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and what kind of attracted me were happy

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staff, patients receiving high quality care,

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a lot of modern tech, and then hearing

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from associates about their experience thus far working

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there. I think those things were all key

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factors for me. Okay. Yeah. I mean, you

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you talked a minute ago or asked the

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question around

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what what's different now? What what are what's

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being offered that might be attractive to students?

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And I think that

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part of what what is attractive, and and

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Catherine can weigh I think should weigh in

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on this too, is

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staying ahead of where the industry is at

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and trying to continue to focus on on

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dentistry as a a part of overall health.

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And and the more that the technology proven

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technology is integrated in, the more that you

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have opportunities to to really leverage that and,

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expand to the full potential of a health

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care professional,

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I think that's really attractive to to students

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coming out now.

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Mhmm.

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Okay. Great. And I'd love to dive deeper

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into, some other issues that you guys are

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following in the industry as well.

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Catherine, I'm interested to hear from you in

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particular on this next question as someone who's

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entering the field soon. What are some of

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the biggest issues that you're following in the

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dental industry right now?

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Oh,

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biggest issues that I'm following

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are

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I guess water fluoridation is pretty big.

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The student loan repayment options, obviously, is something

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that's really big for a lot of students

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right now.

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Hygiene,

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changes in hygiene that they're introducing

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about

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dental students and foreign trained dentists that are

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going to be able to start doing hygiene,

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that kind of thing for sure.

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K. And, Josh, what about you? Are there

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any other issues that you're paying a close

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attention to right now?

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You know, I I think that some of

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the big opportunities are or part of what

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I was talking about earlier is math body

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connection,

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total integration in health care. Those are things

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that just present such big opportunities.

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The financial piece that Catherine mentioned is is

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also very real. I mean, the the economic

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situation that a lot of students find themselves

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in when they come out of school is

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is, front and center when they come out.

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So helping them find financial success and and

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understanding that that's something that is attainable by

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them and and quickly,

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I think, is something that really helps them,

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find their stride a little bit better.

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So those are couple things.

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Okay. Great. And, my last question for you

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both here. What are you most excited about

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when it comes to dentistry right now, and

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what makes you nervous? Catherine, do you wanna

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go first again?

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Sure. What excites me is definitely,

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the technology that's coming out specifically with AI.

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I think that there are opportunities

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to

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streamline things and make patient care a bit

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more standardized, which I think is positive for

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everyone.

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Something that makes me nervous.

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The ADA membership,

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keeping organized dentistry strong, it it it's on

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the decline, and that's something that I think

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is important.

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Okay. And, Josh, what about you?

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Yeah. I mean, from a I'll speak to

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the nervous part first. There's not much that

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makes me nervous as far as what I'm

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seeing right now. There's just there's so much

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opportunity,

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and the landscape has evolved so much in

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the over twenty years that I've been, a

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part of this industry

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that I think that

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there is every opportunity for any student coming

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out to be as successful, as wildly successful

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as they want to be. So I'll say

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that first on the on the excited part,

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that's also what makes me excited.

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I have friends and family that are in

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the industry and in the field, dentists and

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in support positions. And one of the things

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that that I see happening very quickly is

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this continued push around

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the integration into health care. There's there's been

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so much happening and so many studies that

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have come out that talk about,

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the overall

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improvement in health when,

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conditions in the mouth are improved.

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And, I think that as we continue to

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leverage technology, AI, to Catherine's point,

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other technology,

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and and systems, I mean, we've

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we're on Epic now, and the the connection

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between that particular system and other health care

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providers

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has allowed so much conversation and movement of

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information that benefits the patient that I'm I'm

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super excited to see where it goes from

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here.

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Great. Well, thank you both, for sharing your

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thoughts there. Definitely

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very interesting points that you both made.

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And those are all my questions for you

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both. So thank you both for joining us

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today. It has been a great pleasure speaking

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with you, and I look forward to hopefully

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connecting with you both again in the future.

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Thank you. Thanks.