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- Hi everybody, this is Joseph Derocher.

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I'm the staff writer for
the Chicago Dental Society,

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and we're very pleased to be part

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of the Becker's Healthcare podcast series.

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I'm extremely excited today
to talk with our guest, Dr.

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Ben Ell, an early career dentist

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who has made himself an invaluable member

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of organized dentistry,

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including at the Chicago Dental Society.

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For those who don't know about
the Chicago Dental Society,

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we're a professional
organization that's been around

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for about 160 years.

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You may have heard about

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or attended our annual meeting
held every February called

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the Midwinter meeting.

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That gathering attracts tens of thousands

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of dental professionals who
head to Chicago for three days

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of continuing education courses,

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social events, and camaraderie.

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And it also offers up an exhibit hall

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that features about 600 exhibitors
showing off the latest in

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dental technology products and services.

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So it is with immense pleasure
that I welcome Dr. Ben Yuel.

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Welcome, Dr. Ell.

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- Hey, thanks for that
kind introduction, Joe.

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- Oh, no problem. Uh,
so for all those people

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who might not know about the
Chicago Dental Society, uh,

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could you tell us a little bit about it?

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- Well, being from the
Chicago area, I think

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that the Chicago Dental
Society is kind of a big deal,

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and in terms of being big,

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we are the largest local dental society in

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the American Dental Association.

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And so we're larger than
almost every state outside

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of California, New York,
Texas, Florida, um,

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and within Illinois, we make
up two thirds of the dentists

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that are in Illinois.

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And so, um, we cover dentists
within the counties of Cook

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Lake and DuPage.

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- Ah, and, uh, so we're a component of,

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uh, the A DA, correct?

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- Yeah. A constituent society,
the component constitution.

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Okay. The component would be the state,

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Illinois State Dental Society.

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- And, um, where, uh,
where are we located?

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- We we're in the, the northeast
corner of the Great state

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of Illinois, the 4 0 1.

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The CDS headquarters are
at 4 0 1 North Michigan.

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- Beyond the Chicago Dental Society,

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there's branches, right?

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- Yeah. So, uh, in most
parts of organized dentistry,

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you have a tripartite

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and we kind of have a quad
apartheid, where our local

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CDS is broken up into nine
branches, depending on

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where you live in Chicago or
the, uh, the near suburbs.

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- Chicago Dental Society's been around

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for, uh, quite some time.

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I like to say that, uh,
we were, we were around

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for four decades before
the Wright Brothers

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decided to try to fly.

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- That's a impressive, fun fact.

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I think I might share that
with my staff, uh, on Monday.

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So I'm involved in all kind of three tiers

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of organized dentistry, um,
at the Chicago Dental Society.

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I'm chair of the membership
committee, uh, within the state.

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I'm a trustee for the state
Illinois State Dental Society.

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And at the a DA level, I'm on
the ADA's Finance Committee.

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I guess I like to like to stay busy

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outside of patient hours.

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- Well, the, you know, the practice

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of dentistry has been
changing a little bit about

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how people, uh, actually practice.

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Um, my understanding is
that about 15 years ago,

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or almost 20 years ago, there
were, there were about 85%

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of dentists were in
private practice as owners.

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Um, that number has
been down to about 72%.

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- Yeah, absolutely. There,

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there are more options available
coming outta dental school

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than there were, uh,
20, 30 years ago. Yeah.

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- My my understanding
is that the latest, uh,

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percentages show that about 50%, uh,

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of dentists work in group practice,

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and about 13% work in DSOs.

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Um, and about 36% are
in, uh, solo practices.

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- That that's very true.

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The, the landscape of, of
what it looks like to practice

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as a dentist, uh, is,
is certainly evolving.

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- Well, with those numbers
in mind, why is, uh,

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CDS members membership still,
uh, relevant to dentists?

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- That's a, that's an excellent question.

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Uh, and so, I mean,

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you said 20 years ago we had a significant

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num greater number of people
in solo private practice.

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Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>.
And that has declined.

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Along the same lines,

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our membership has
declined from 20 years ago,

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where seven outta 10
dentists where members

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of the C-D-S-I-S-E-S and and a DA

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and now we're barely over five, outta 10,

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we're barely over half the dentists in,

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in the country are members
of organized dentistry.

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Um, and the, the relevance of

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of still being involved

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and still being a cohesive
unit is probably in,

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in three respects.

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Uh, most important one is
advocacy, two is science,

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and three is standards.

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And so, um, within the
state of Illinois, there,

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there are special interest
groups and, and non dentists, uh,

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and non-healthcare providers
that really have an interest in

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how healthcare is delivered.

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Uh, and they're, they're
down lobbying in Springfield.

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And if we did not have the CDS

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and ISDS, uh, we, we
would be kind of eaten up,

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uh, not have a voice in how things are are

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and how decisions are
being made that affect our,

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our livelihood as providers
and affect the, the care

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and the delivery of care to our patients.

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And that's true on a federal level at, um,

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out in Washington dc.

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Then science-wise, um, outside

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of our educational institutions, the, um,

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organized dentistry is, uh,
especially on the a DA level,

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uh, benefiting from
really high level research

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that's being done to benefit,
uh, the practice of dentistry.

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Um, and, you know, industry is,

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is always doing research,

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but they're, they tend to be
doing research with the idea

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of developing something to sell to you.

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Right? Whereas, uh, the, the
profession is doing research

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with the idea of, of actually
learning something of value

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that will benefit practitioners
and benefit patients.

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And then standards is also, um,

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housed within the American
Dental Association.

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And that allows, so if you,
if you enjoy as a dentist, uh,

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having every, um, every
four hold handpiece

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fit onto every handpiece,
uh, receiver, the,

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the the female part on every chair, uh,

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if you en enjoy, um, just
kind of standards of how,

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how, um, equipment is
manufactured, then those,

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those are actually held within the a DA.

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And so we, we kind of
direct industry as to,

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uh, what, what will work

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and, um, make certain
technology interchangeable

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and uhhuh <affirmative>
regardless of the practice.

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- So there's a real value, uh, above

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and beyond just, uh, you
know, giving to, uh, uh,

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organized dentistry there.

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I mean, it's a, it is a value
that might not be evident to,

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uh, uh, dentists every day.

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- It's the small things like if you enjoy

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that your curing light, uh, cures

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that your composites all
cure at the wavelength

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that you're curing light
is mainly putting out.

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That's an a DA standard like,
uh, that, that these, um,

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photo sensitive compounds in

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commercially available dental
composites all cure at, uh,

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the commercially available, uh,

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wavelengths that we have in our lights.

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- And of course, that's the
more the, the, the function, uh,

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aspect of, of, uh, CDS.

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But there's a human aspect too, right?

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There's a connection
with the fellow dentists.

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And tell us a little bit about
why you think it's important

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that the dentists are active

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and what, how does it foster
along the lines of, uh, uh,

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comradery, uh, interaction
with colleagues, et cetera?

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- Yeah, Joe, well, the
human aspect is probably

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why I keep coming back.

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I'm the first dentist in my family,

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and I did not realize
getting into this, um,

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how little I understood about
what it means to be a dentist.

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I felt kind of over my head

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and getting involved very early with Asda,

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the American Student Dental Association,

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and then continuing on
into the C-D-S-I-I-S-D-S

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and a DA, uh, has given
me an opportunity to

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meet people, uh, that, that I look up to

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and that I aspire to be like,

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like maybe there's
something about how they,

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how they practice that,
that I want to emulate

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or about how they approach
fatherhood or motherhood

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or, um, these are just some

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of the best people you could
ever want to meet are drawn

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to organized dentistry.

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And I think I'm, I'm drawn to the CDS

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and the rest of organized dentistry

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because of the opportunity
to get, meet, uh, meet people

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that may not know it, but,
but they're, they're my idols.

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And, um, I'm trying to live
at least a portion of my life

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the way that that they are.

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- And how does that relate
to, uh, say, job satisfaction?

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- I mean, dentistry can be
extremely isolating, uh,

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especially if you're, you're
practicing by yourself

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or you don't, you don't see
another dentist regularly.

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Yeah. While you're out there.

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Um, and you get some, you,

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I think we, we get more satisfaction out

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of our careers the more we
we share with each other.

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Like what, what you're learning,
uh, what works for you.

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And the more you learn
from your colleagues, um,

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at local branch meetings like
the, the CDS branch meetings,

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uh, or at larger meetings
like CDS midwinter, um,

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that, that collegiality
and, and camaraderie and,

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and realizing that we're
all in this together.

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And especially from a kind of
younger dentist perspective,

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realizing that, uh, not every
day in dentistry is amazing.

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And just 'cause, just

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'cause you made it to dental school

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doesn't mean it's gonna be a
cake walk through dental school

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and your life is set, right.

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Just 'cause you made it outta
dental school doesn't mean

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it's gonna be a cakewalk, uh, for the rest

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of your life and your life is set.

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Uh, there's, there's
real struggle at, at kind

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of every step of the game here.

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And I think, uh, meeting people

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that are also struggling the
way you are makes you feel less

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alone and makes you feel
more like you're, you're,

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you're doing the right things

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and you're going the right direction,

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even though it's tough sometimes.

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- So, uh, you must have, uh, colleagues

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and friends who associates
who work in, uh,

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corporate settings or for DSO, um,

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what do, what do they say?

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What do they think about,
uh, organized dentistry?

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- Yeah, I mean, it's
easy to, to feel like,

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uh, that the, that the
DSO provides everything

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that organized dentistry could provide,

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but in a broader sense, those
three things that I hit on

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before, advocacy science

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and standards are things
that, that no DSO can,

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can adequately do for you.

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And it will be a dark day
for, for dentistry if, uh,

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if our, our organized
dentistry groups fail.

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And, uh, and if we no
longer have the advocacy to,

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to get to dictate how,
how our futures go, uh,

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if we no longer have the science

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and standards that make
practice, um, better for,

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for ourselves and, and for our patients.

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So these are, these are
less tangible things,

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which in part explains, I think
our, our membership numbers.

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00:13:04,555 --> 00:13:08,525
- Yeah. And that's, I mean,
you, you brought up that it,

245
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it's, it is kind

246
00:13:10,165 --> 00:13:12,725
of not something you can
hold into your hands, right?

247
00:13:13,025 --> 00:13:16,845
So what do you think that, um, uh, DSOs

248
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or ownership groups can do
to support a dentist, uh,

249
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desire if they wanna be
involved in organized dentistry?

250
00:13:24,565 --> 00:13:26,685
What can they they do to foster that,

251
00:13:27,845 --> 00:13:29,185
- Uh, just pay for their membership?

252
00:13:29,885 --> 00:13:33,065
Uh, I <laugh>, I, I'm some semi joking,

253
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but I do believe that, uh,

254
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and I've seen the transcript
of kind of interviews with,

255
00:13:39,735 --> 00:13:43,345
with leadership set at
the large DSOs Yeah.

256
00:13:43,415 --> 00:13:46,465
That, that, that see the whole picture.

257
00:13:47,055 --> 00:13:50,745
They realize that all of
dentistry is, is in it together,

258
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and that we're, um,

259
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we have a common interest in
serving the greatest number

260
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of people and doing the
best dentistry that we can

261
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for the greatest number of people.

262
00:14:01,725 --> 00:14:05,705
And part of that is tied up
in how well we can advocate,

263
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how well, how good of
science we can come up with,

264
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and making sure that there
are standards in place.

265
00:14:13,045 --> 00:14:16,145
Um, so, so that our, our curing lights

266
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and handpieces and everything works.

267
00:14:18,285 --> 00:14:21,745
Um, and so I believe

268
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that the vast majority of owners,

269
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and like c-suite level people

270
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at these DSOs see value
in organized industry.

271
00:14:32,935 --> 00:14:36,505
It's just, um, the individual dentist

272
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as an employee for

273
00:14:39,545 --> 00:14:42,785
that DSO may not see the whole picture,

274
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uh, in, in the same way.

275
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And so that's a communication
problem from a CDS perspective

276
00:14:50,725 --> 00:14:55,325
is, uh, communicating why, uh,

277
00:14:55,555 --> 00:14:57,685
it's, it's so imperative
that, that we exist.

278
00:14:58,505 --> 00:15:00,805
- So there's a return on
investment, so to speak,

279
00:15:00,905 --> 00:15:03,605
and, uh, that's what they
can kind of understand.

280
00:15:04,825 --> 00:15:08,285
- It. It's, it's when, when
observed on, on the whole, it's,

281
00:15:08,285 --> 00:15:12,325
it's when you, it's at
a 4,000 foot view Okay.

282
00:15:12,345 --> 00:15:15,365
Or 40 thou, 40,000 foot view,
uh, you're up in the airplane

283
00:15:15,945 --> 00:15:19,445
and, uh, when, when you see
the whole picture, you realize

284
00:15:19,475 --> 00:15:22,565
that there are certain things
that you can't do for yourself

285
00:15:23,225 --> 00:15:26,045
as a doctor in any type of practice

286
00:15:26,835 --> 00:15:29,285
that your employer can't do for you.

287
00:15:30,225 --> 00:15:33,685
And, and that we're, we're
benefiting from the hard work

288
00:15:33,685 --> 00:15:37,125
of people at the C-D-S-I-S-D-S and,

289
00:15:37,185 --> 00:15:39,965
and a DA, um, in, in many ways.

290
00:15:40,225 --> 00:15:43,085
- So we just had our, uh,
our midwinter meeting.

291
00:15:43,905 --> 00:15:45,525
It was our hundred and 59th,

292
00:15:46,425 --> 00:15:49,525
and, uh, you were there.
How did you like it?

293
00:15:50,465 --> 00:15:54,245
- Oh, it was great. Uh, especially
like on the exhibit hall,

294
00:15:54,275 --> 00:15:58,565
it's starting to feel, um,
you know, closer to the,

295
00:15:58,625 --> 00:16:01,285
the pre covid type of type of meeting, uh,

296
00:16:01,515 --> 00:16:04,325
more exhibitors out, more people out, uh,

297
00:16:04,715 --> 00:16:09,205
more mingling sales deals,
being, being had, uh, and,

298
00:16:09,305 --> 00:16:12,005
and a lot of learning happening,
um, in the classrooms.

299
00:16:12,675 --> 00:16:16,485
- Yeah. I think we had more
than, uh, 560 exhibitors,

300
00:16:17,615 --> 00:16:19,875
uh, you know, vendors separate booths.

301
00:16:20,295 --> 00:16:24,755
We had attendees from every
single state of the union.

302
00:16:25,335 --> 00:16:27,675
And how many?

303
00:16:28,765 --> 00:16:30,595
60 some countries, something like that.

304
00:16:30,595 --> 00:16:31,835
58 different countries.

305
00:16:31,945 --> 00:16:34,195
- Yeah. I talked to a pair
of dentists from Germany

306
00:16:34,575 --> 00:16:36,795
for about a half hour, uh,

307
00:16:37,325 --> 00:16:39,675
while working at the CDS membership booth

308
00:16:40,775 --> 00:16:42,435
- In German or, uh, <laugh>?

309
00:16:44,255 --> 00:16:47,355
- No, uh, well, the only
German I used was tta.

310
00:16:47,675 --> 00:16:51,235
I have a, a German neighbor
from, from back home

311
00:16:51,545 --> 00:16:52,875
that we'd call our tta.

312
00:16:53,035 --> 00:16:56,075
Helga. Yeah. And so that's,
that's the extent of my German.

313
00:16:57,055 --> 00:16:58,715
But, but yeah, we, we talked mainly about

314
00:16:58,715 --> 00:17:00,115
teeth and in English.

315
00:17:00,305 --> 00:17:01,305
Okay.

316
00:17:02,295 --> 00:17:03,675
- Um, every mean, everybody should go

317
00:17:03,695 --> 00:17:05,235
to midwinter at least once, right?

318
00:17:06,915 --> 00:17:11,275
- Absolutely. Uh, if you
want to affirmation that,

319
00:17:11,895 --> 00:17:15,155
uh, there's a whole lot of
industry backing you, um,

320
00:17:15,345 --> 00:17:18,875
that cares about the success
of dentists, then walking this,

321
00:17:19,615 --> 00:17:22,955
the midwinter median
exhibit hall is Mm-Hmm.

322
00:17:22,995 --> 00:17:26,395
<affirmative> is affirming
that, um, there's a lot of,

323
00:17:27,085 --> 00:17:29,555
there, there's billions of
dollars being poured into

324
00:17:30,915 --> 00:17:33,715
products and development that Right.

325
00:17:33,735 --> 00:17:35,315
Is designed to help you succeed. So,

326
00:17:35,315 --> 00:17:36,795
- I mean, even if though you're,

327
00:17:36,795 --> 00:17:39,795
you're not a practice owner, uh,

328
00:17:39,855 --> 00:17:42,395
and you're not out there
looking to buy equipment

329
00:17:42,395 --> 00:17:46,115
or anything, um, it's still
very worthwhile to, uh,

330
00:17:46,695 --> 00:17:49,125
to walk the halls and take the cd.

331
00:17:51,685 --> 00:17:54,735
- Yeah. And, and there
are, are tons of, uh,

332
00:17:55,075 --> 00:17:57,375
if you don't wanna commit to
a paid class, there are tons

333
00:17:57,375 --> 00:18:00,935
of free, uh, classes
for everyone registered

334
00:18:00,935 --> 00:18:02,255
for, for the midwinter.

335
00:18:02,585 --> 00:18:07,215
Those fill up quick. So you
would want to, um, register

336
00:18:07,215 --> 00:18:09,655
for the individual free
classes in advance.

337
00:18:10,355 --> 00:18:14,375
But, but yeah, from an education
perspective, we get, uh,

338
00:18:14,385 --> 00:18:17,215
world class speakers to
midwinter every year.

339
00:18:17,955 --> 00:18:19,895
- And of course we have social events too.

340
00:18:20,395 --> 00:18:22,575
- Oh, yeah. We, we got
something for everyone.

341
00:18:22,995 --> 00:18:24,455
Uh, so, uh,

342
00:18:24,595 --> 00:18:27,935
if you don't wanna buy something
on the exhibit floor, uh,

343
00:18:28,845 --> 00:18:30,055
take some classes and

344
00:18:30,055 --> 00:18:32,855
after you're done learning, uh,
come mingle with colleagues.

345
00:18:33,595 --> 00:18:37,335
Uh, we have events for dental
students, events for, uh,

346
00:18:37,435 --> 00:18:41,095
new dentists, um, and events for everyone.

347
00:18:41,875 --> 00:18:43,775
- Wow. Fantastic. Uh,

348
00:18:43,795 --> 00:18:47,615
and I, registration starts, uh, November.

349
00:18:48,235 --> 00:18:50,655
- If you wanna pencil it into
your, into your calendar,

350
00:18:50,725 --> 00:18:52,775
then, uh, it's a few months away.

351
00:18:53,565 --> 00:18:55,615
- Well, Dr. Yul, thank you very much

352
00:18:55,635 --> 00:18:57,095
for taking the time to talk to us.

353
00:18:57,395 --> 00:18:58,775
- No problem. Thanks for having me, Joe.

354
00:18:59,275 --> 00:19:01,735
And thank you to Becker's for, uh,

355
00:19:02,275 --> 00:19:05,175
for having the Chicago
Dental Society involved.