- Hi everybody, this is Joseph Derocher.
I'm the staff writer for the Chicago Dental Society,
and we're very pleased to be part
of the Becker's Healthcare podcast series.
I'm extremely excited today to talk with our guest, Dr.
Ben Ell, an early career dentist
who has made himself an invaluable member
of organized dentistry,
including at the Chicago Dental Society.
For those who don't know about the Chicago Dental Society,
we're a professional organization that's been around
for about 160 years.
You may have heard about
or attended our annual meeting held every February called
the Midwinter meeting.
That gathering attracts tens of thousands
of dental professionals who head to Chicago for three days
of continuing education courses,
social events, and camaraderie.
And it also offers up an exhibit hall
that features about 600 exhibitors showing off the latest in
dental technology products and services.
So it is with immense pleasure that I welcome Dr. Ben Yuel.
Welcome, Dr. Ell.
- Hey, thanks for that kind introduction, Joe.
- Oh, no problem. Uh, so for all those people
who might not know about the Chicago Dental Society, uh,
could you tell us a little bit about it?
- Well, being from the Chicago area, I think
that the Chicago Dental Society is kind of a big deal,
and in terms of being big,
we are the largest local dental society in
the American Dental Association.
And so we're larger than almost every state outside
of California, New York, Texas, Florida, um,
and within Illinois, we make up two thirds of the dentists
that are in Illinois.
And so, um, we cover dentists within the counties of Cook
Lake and DuPage.
- Ah, and, uh, so we're a component of,
uh, the A DA, correct?
- Yeah. A constituent society, the component constitution.
Okay. The component would be the state,
Illinois State Dental Society.
- And, um, where, uh, where are we located?
- We we're in the, the northeast corner of the Great state
of Illinois, the 4 0 1.
The CDS headquarters are at 4 0 1 North Michigan.
- Beyond the Chicago Dental Society,
there's branches, right?
- Yeah. So, uh, in most parts of organized dentistry,
you have a tripartite
and we kind of have a quad apartheid, where our local
CDS is broken up into nine branches, depending on
where you live in Chicago or the, uh, the near suburbs.
- Chicago Dental Society's been around
for, uh, quite some time.
I like to say that, uh, we were, we were around
for four decades before the Wright Brothers
decided to try to fly.
- That's a impressive, fun fact.
I think I might share that with my staff, uh, on Monday.
So I'm involved in all kind of three tiers
of organized dentistry, um, at the Chicago Dental Society.
I'm chair of the membership committee, uh, within the state.
I'm a trustee for the state Illinois State Dental Society.
And at the a DA level, I'm on the ADA's Finance Committee.
I guess I like to like to stay busy
outside of patient hours.
- Well, the, you know, the practice
of dentistry has been changing a little bit about
how people, uh, actually practice.
Um, my understanding is that about 15 years ago,
or almost 20 years ago, there were, there were about 85%
of dentists were in private practice as owners.
Um, that number has been down to about 72%.
- Yeah, absolutely. There,
there are more options available coming outta dental school
than there were, uh, 20, 30 years ago. Yeah.
- My my understanding is that the latest, uh,
percentages show that about 50%, uh,
of dentists work in group practice,
and about 13% work in DSOs.
Um, and about 36% are in, uh, solo practices.
- That that's very true.
The, the landscape of, of what it looks like to practice
as a dentist, uh, is, is certainly evolving.
- Well, with those numbers in mind, why is, uh,
CDS members membership still, uh, relevant to dentists?
- That's a, that's an excellent question.
Uh, and so, I mean,
you said 20 years ago we had a significant
num greater number of people in solo private practice.
Mm-Hmm. . And that has declined.
Along the same lines,
our membership has declined from 20 years ago,
where seven outta 10 dentists where members
of the C-D-S-I-S-E-S and and a DA
and now we're barely over five, outta 10,
we're barely over half the dentists in,
in the country are members of organized dentistry.
Um, and the, the relevance of
of still being involved
and still being a cohesive unit is probably in,
in three respects.
Uh, most important one is advocacy, two is science,
and three is standards.
And so, um, within the state of Illinois, there,
there are special interest groups and, and non dentists, uh,
and non-healthcare providers that really have an interest in
how healthcare is delivered.
Uh, and they're, they're down lobbying in Springfield.
And if we did not have the CDS
and ISDS, uh, we, we would be kind of eaten up,
uh, not have a voice in how things are are
and how decisions are being made that affect our,
our livelihood as providers and affect the, the care
and the delivery of care to our patients.
And that's true on a federal level at, um,
out in Washington dc.
Then science-wise, um, outside
of our educational institutions, the, um,
organized dentistry is, uh, especially on the a DA level,
uh, benefiting from really high level research
that's being done to benefit, uh, the practice of dentistry.
Um, and, you know, industry is,
is always doing research,
but they're, they tend to be doing research with the idea
of developing something to sell to you.
Right? Whereas, uh, the, the profession is doing research
with the idea of, of actually learning something of value
that will benefit practitioners and benefit patients.
And then standards is also, um,
housed within the American Dental Association.
And that allows, so if you, if you enjoy as a dentist, uh,
having every, um, every four hold handpiece
fit onto every handpiece, uh, receiver, the,
the the female part on every chair, uh,
if you en enjoy, um, just kind of standards of how,
how, um, equipment is manufactured, then those,
those are actually held within the a DA.
And so we, we kind of direct industry as to,
uh, what, what will work
and, um, make certain technology interchangeable
and uhhuh regardless of the practice.
- So there's a real value, uh, above
and beyond just, uh, you know, giving to, uh, uh,
organized dentistry there.
I mean, it's a, it is a value that might not be evident to,
uh, uh, dentists every day.
- It's the small things like if you enjoy
that your curing light, uh, cures
that your composites all cure at the wavelength
that you're curing light is mainly putting out.
That's an a DA standard like, uh, that, that these, um,
photo sensitive compounds in
commercially available dental composites all cure at, uh,
the commercially available, uh,
wavelengths that we have in our lights.
- And of course, that's the more the, the, the function, uh,
aspect of, of, uh, CDS.
But there's a human aspect too, right?
There's a connection with the fellow dentists.
And tell us a little bit about why you think it's important
that the dentists are active
and what, how does it foster along the lines of, uh, uh,
comradery, uh, interaction with colleagues, et cetera?
- Yeah, Joe, well, the human aspect is probably
why I keep coming back.
I'm the first dentist in my family,
and I did not realize getting into this, um,
how little I understood about what it means to be a dentist.
I felt kind of over my head
and getting involved very early with Asda,
the American Student Dental Association,
and then continuing on into the C-D-S-I-I-S-D-S
and a DA, uh, has given me an opportunity to
meet people, uh, that, that I look up to
and that I aspire to be like,
like maybe there's something about how they,
how they practice that, that I want to emulate
or about how they approach fatherhood or motherhood
or, um, these are just some
of the best people you could ever want to meet are drawn
to organized dentistry.
And I think I'm, I'm drawn to the CDS
and the rest of organized dentistry
because of the opportunity to get, meet, uh, meet people
that may not know it, but, but they're, they're my idols.
And, um, I'm trying to live at least a portion of my life
the way that that they are.
- And how does that relate to, uh, say, job satisfaction?
- I mean, dentistry can be extremely isolating, uh,
especially if you're, you're practicing by yourself
or you don't, you don't see another dentist regularly.
Yeah. While you're out there.
Um, and you get some, you,
I think we, we get more satisfaction out
of our careers the more we we share with each other.
Like what, what you're learning, uh, what works for you.
And the more you learn from your colleagues, um,
at local branch meetings like the, the CDS branch meetings,
uh, or at larger meetings like CDS midwinter, um,
that, that collegiality and, and camaraderie and,
and realizing that we're all in this together.
And especially from a kind of younger dentist perspective,
realizing that, uh, not every day in dentistry is amazing.
And just 'cause, just
'cause you made it to dental school
doesn't mean it's gonna be a cake walk through dental school
and your life is set, right.
Just 'cause you made it outta dental school doesn't mean
it's gonna be a cakewalk, uh, for the rest
of your life and your life is set.
Uh, there's, there's real struggle at, at kind
of every step of the game here.
And I think, uh, meeting people
that are also struggling the way you are makes you feel less
alone and makes you feel more like you're, you're,
you're doing the right things
and you're going the right direction,
even though it's tough sometimes.
- So, uh, you must have, uh, colleagues
and friends who associates who work in, uh,
corporate settings or for DSO, um,
what do, what do they say?
What do they think about, uh, organized dentistry?
- Yeah, I mean, it's easy to, to feel like,
uh, that the, that the DSO provides everything
that organized dentistry could provide,
but in a broader sense, those three things that I hit on
before, advocacy science
and standards are things that, that no DSO can,
can adequately do for you.
And it will be a dark day for, for dentistry if, uh,
if our, our organized dentistry groups fail.
And, uh, and if we no longer have the advocacy to,
to get to dictate how, how our futures go, uh,
if we no longer have the science
and standards that make practice, um, better for,
for ourselves and, and for our patients.
So these are, these are less tangible things,
which in part explains, I think our, our membership numbers.
- Yeah. And that's, I mean, you, you brought up that it,
it's, it is kind
of not something you can hold into your hands, right?
So what do you think that, um, uh, DSOs
or ownership groups can do to support a dentist, uh,
desire if they wanna be involved in organized dentistry?
What can they they do to foster that,
- Uh, just pay for their membership?
Uh, I , I, I'm some semi joking,
but I do believe that, uh,
and I've seen the transcript of kind of interviews with,
with leadership set at the large DSOs Yeah.
That, that, that see the whole picture.
They realize that all of dentistry is, is in it together,
and that we're, um,
we have a common interest in serving the greatest number
of people and doing the best dentistry that we can
for the greatest number of people.
And part of that is tied up in how well we can advocate,
how well, how good of science we can come up with,
and making sure that there are standards in place.
Um, so, so that our, our curing lights
and handpieces and everything works.
Um, and so I believe
that the vast majority of owners,
and like c-suite level people
at these DSOs see value in organized industry.
It's just, um, the individual dentist
as an employee for
that DSO may not see the whole picture,
uh, in, in the same way.
And so that's a communication problem from a CDS perspective
is, uh, communicating why, uh,
it's, it's so imperative that, that we exist.
- So there's a return on investment, so to speak,
and, uh, that's what they can kind of understand.
- It. It's, it's when, when observed on, on the whole, it's,
it's when you, it's at a 4,000 foot view Okay.
Or 40 thou, 40,000 foot view, uh, you're up in the airplane
and, uh, when, when you see the whole picture, you realize
that there are certain things that you can't do for yourself
as a doctor in any type of practice
that your employer can't do for you.
And, and that we're, we're benefiting from the hard work
of people at the C-D-S-I-S-D-S and,
and a DA, um, in, in many ways.
- So we just had our, uh, our midwinter meeting.
It was our hundred and 59th,
and, uh, you were there. How did you like it?
- Oh, it was great. Uh, especially like on the exhibit hall,
it's starting to feel, um, you know, closer to the,
the pre covid type of type of meeting, uh,
more exhibitors out, more people out, uh,
more mingling sales deals, being, being had, uh, and,
and a lot of learning happening, um, in the classrooms.
- Yeah. I think we had more than, uh, 560 exhibitors,
uh, you know, vendors separate booths.
We had attendees from every single state of the union.
And how many?
60 some countries, something like that.
58 different countries.
- Yeah. I talked to a pair of dentists from Germany
for about a half hour, uh,
while working at the CDS membership booth
- In German or, uh, ?
- No, uh, well, the only German I used was tta.
I have a, a German neighbor from, from back home
that we'd call our tta.
Helga. Yeah. And so that's, that's the extent of my German.
But, but yeah, we, we talked mainly about
teeth and in English.
Okay.
- Um, every mean, everybody should go
to midwinter at least once, right?
- Absolutely. Uh, if you want to affirmation that,
uh, there's a whole lot of industry backing you, um,
that cares about the success of dentists, then walking this,
the midwinter median exhibit hall is Mm-Hmm.
is affirming that, um, there's a lot of,
there, there's billions of dollars being poured into
products and development that Right.
Is designed to help you succeed. So,
- I mean, even if though you're,
you're not a practice owner, uh,
and you're not out there looking to buy equipment
or anything, um, it's still very worthwhile to, uh,
to walk the halls and take the cd.
- Yeah. And, and there are, are tons of, uh,
if you don't wanna commit to a paid class, there are tons
of free, uh, classes for everyone registered
for, for the midwinter.
Those fill up quick. So you would want to, um, register
for the individual free classes in advance.
But, but yeah, from an education perspective, we get, uh,
world class speakers to midwinter every year.
- And of course we have social events too.
- Oh, yeah. We, we got something for everyone.
Uh, so, uh,
if you don't wanna buy something on the exhibit floor, uh,
take some classes and
after you're done learning, uh, come mingle with colleagues.
Uh, we have events for dental students, events for, uh,
new dentists, um, and events for everyone.
- Wow. Fantastic. Uh,
and I, registration starts, uh, November.
- If you wanna pencil it into your, into your calendar,
then, uh, it's a few months away.
- Well, Dr. Yul, thank you very much
for taking the time to talk to us.
- No problem. Thanks for having me, Joe.
And thank you to Becker's for, uh,
for having the Chicago Dental Society involved.