1 00:00:05,155 --> 00:00:07,205 - This is the Becker's Healthcare Podcast, created 2 00:00:07,205 --> 00:00:08,365 by the team of Becker's Healthcare, 3 00:00:08,485 --> 00:00:10,245 a multimedia company devoted to the people 4 00:00:10,265 --> 00:00:11,565 who power us healthcare. 5 00:00:11,835 --> 00:00:14,645 Four new 15 minute episodes are released daily containing 6 00:00:14,845 --> 00:00:16,605 industry news analysis and thought leadership. 7 00:00:16,605 --> 00:00:19,485 From powerful healthcare decision makers Support our show 8 00:00:19,625 --> 00:00:22,445 by leaving it a five star rating and review on Apple Podcast 9 00:00:22,665 --> 00:00:23,925 or other platforms you use. 10 00:00:24,075 --> 00:00:25,925 It's a chance to tell us what you like about the show 11 00:00:25,945 --> 00:00:27,165 and act on your feedback. 12 00:00:27,165 --> 00:00:29,125 Thanks for listening. Now here's the episode. 13 00:00:30,795 --> 00:00:32,005 - This is Gracelyn Keller 14 00:00:32,005 --> 00:00:33,365 with the Becker's Healthcare Podcast, 15 00:00:33,585 --> 00:00:36,365 and we are live at the business and operations of a SC 16 00:00:36,365 --> 00:00:38,885 and the Future of Dentistry Roundtable. 17 00:00:39,545 --> 00:00:43,005 I'm joined right now by Harold Gobain, who is the head 18 00:00:43,005 --> 00:00:46,165 of business development for Apex Reimbursement Specialists 19 00:00:46,385 --> 00:00:48,205 and Genesis Dental Partners. 20 00:00:48,265 --> 00:00:50,685 So, Harold, thanks so much for joining me this morning. 21 00:00:50,905 --> 00:00:52,485 Um, and I would love to have us start off 22 00:00:52,585 --> 00:00:54,245 by you introducing yourself 23 00:00:54,305 --> 00:00:56,325 and telling us a little bit more about your background. 24 00:00:56,725 --> 00:00:58,445 - I appreciate it, grace. Thanks so much for having me. 25 00:00:58,825 --> 00:01:00,405 Um, you know, my journey goes, 26 00:01:00,405 --> 00:01:02,445 goes back about 30 years in healthcare. 27 00:01:02,985 --> 00:01:04,325 Um, I was on the dark side. 28 00:01:04,405 --> 00:01:05,765 I worked for the insurance carriers, 29 00:01:06,065 --> 00:01:07,205 uh, for many, many years. 30 00:01:07,205 --> 00:01:08,845 About 25 years in total. 31 00:01:09,505 --> 00:01:11,685 And, uh, so I understand that world really, really well. 32 00:01:12,185 --> 00:01:14,245 Um, and then we kind of got into the world 33 00:01:14,245 --> 00:01:17,605 of Apex reimbursement Specialist, uh, by accident. 34 00:01:17,945 --> 00:01:20,525 Uh, I had a, I have a partner now whose cousin's, 35 00:01:20,525 --> 00:01:23,085 a periodontist down in Miami, who called him one day 36 00:01:23,085 --> 00:01:24,885 and said, Hey, I, I'm unhappy with the fees 37 00:01:24,885 --> 00:01:25,925 that, that I'm being paid. 38 00:01:25,985 --> 00:01:28,805 Can you help with that? And, um, he said, well, 39 00:01:28,825 --> 00:01:31,125 you can either, you can complain or do something about it. 40 00:01:31,665 --> 00:01:33,365 So he decided to do something about it, 41 00:01:34,185 --> 00:01:36,525 and he knew that, uh, my partner, well at the time, 42 00:01:36,525 --> 00:01:37,965 didn't know anything about dentistry, uh, 43 00:01:37,965 --> 00:01:39,645 but he knew that I, I knew a lot about dental 44 00:01:40,225 --> 00:01:43,085 and, um, we put our heads together, made some calls, 45 00:01:43,545 --> 00:01:45,125 got him some nice increases for his, 46 00:01:45,225 --> 00:01:47,165 his periodontist cousin down in, in Miami. 47 00:01:47,625 --> 00:01:49,685 We said, maybe we have a business. So Apex was 48 00:01:49,715 --> 00:01:50,805 born at that point. 49 00:01:50,805 --> 00:01:52,165 That was back in 2012. 50 00:01:52,785 --> 00:01:55,685 Um, since then, we've grown from fee negotiations 51 00:01:55,745 --> 00:01:58,525 to credentialing management, to full dental billing, 52 00:01:58,525 --> 00:02:00,565 insurance verification, really, 53 00:02:00,665 --> 00:02:03,165 and also clinical due diligence on the acquisition side. 54 00:02:03,465 --> 00:02:06,485 So anything that really from a back office payer relations, 55 00:02:06,945 --> 00:02:11,005 uh, revenue cycle perspective, uh, apex can, can manage 56 00:02:11,225 --> 00:02:12,805 and do, um, we do it well. 57 00:02:12,805 --> 00:02:15,285 We've worked with about 4,500 practices across the country. 58 00:02:16,185 --> 00:02:19,965 Um, and then over that period of time, based on having a, 59 00:02:19,965 --> 00:02:21,085 a number of DSO clients 60 00:02:21,105 --> 00:02:22,965 and dentists as clients were like, Hey, 61 00:02:23,215 --> 00:02:25,245 maybe we could think about potentially, uh, 62 00:02:25,245 --> 00:02:26,805 running our own practices as well. 63 00:02:27,105 --> 00:02:29,045 And that's when Genesis Dental Partners was born. 64 00:02:29,045 --> 00:02:30,645 That was back in 2019. 65 00:02:31,225 --> 00:02:33,685 Um, today we've got, we've been managing one office 66 00:02:33,685 --> 00:02:35,885 to kinda get our feet wet, get our experience, uh, 67 00:02:36,065 --> 00:02:38,365 but we're should be closing on our second practice, uh, 68 00:02:38,365 --> 00:02:39,765 shortly, probably within the next couple weeks. 69 00:02:40,265 --> 00:02:42,565 And, um, that's how Genesis Dental Partners wanted 70 00:02:42,565 --> 00:02:44,125 to utilizing that knowledge that we've gained over the years 71 00:02:44,125 --> 00:02:46,845 of the Apex and apply it to practice ownership. 72 00:02:47,305 --> 00:02:51,085 Um, so that's, uh, that's my background a little bit 73 00:02:51,465 --> 00:02:54,125 and, um, little history. Yeah. 74 00:02:54,195 --> 00:02:56,325 - Well, congratulations on that second practice. 75 00:02:56,325 --> 00:02:57,605 Very exciting. Um, 76 00:02:57,605 --> 00:02:59,485 and I'd love to start our conversation with 77 00:02:59,795 --> 00:03:01,485 what the biggest issues you are 78 00:03:01,485 --> 00:03:02,805 currently following in dental. 79 00:03:03,755 --> 00:03:05,685 - Yeah, so I think really it, it, it applies 80 00:03:05,825 --> 00:03:07,245 to, to both sides. 81 00:03:07,245 --> 00:03:08,365 We're in the apex world 82 00:03:08,465 --> 00:03:12,485 and the Genes dental partners world is really labor today. 83 00:03:12,865 --> 00:03:15,245 Um, it's not hard to find a practice to operate. 84 00:03:15,585 --> 00:03:17,765 Um, and for us in the Apex side, it's not hard 85 00:03:17,765 --> 00:03:20,525 to find practices to help on the revenue side. 86 00:03:20,865 --> 00:03:23,965 Um, but what we constantly hear within the world 87 00:03:24,145 --> 00:03:27,885 of our clients at Apex and also our own practices is labor. 88 00:03:28,345 --> 00:03:31,765 Um, hygienists cost have gone up probably 20, 89 00:03:31,765 --> 00:03:35,125 30% in the last 12 months, which is really impacting, um, 90 00:03:35,665 --> 00:03:37,245 the financial health of the practice. 91 00:03:37,585 --> 00:03:39,125 Um, and also just finding dentists 92 00:03:39,125 --> 00:03:40,525 to work in the practice has been a challenge. 93 00:03:41,025 --> 00:03:44,285 Uh, and you add that that labor challenge 94 00:03:44,425 --> 00:03:47,845 and labor cost increasing to the reimbursements 95 00:03:47,915 --> 00:03:52,615 with the insurance companies really being flat or stagnant. 96 00:03:52,635 --> 00:03:54,055 You know, at Apex, we, we, we, 97 00:03:54,055 --> 00:03:55,655 we've got a nice little track history 98 00:03:55,655 --> 00:03:56,775 of making some improvements there, 99 00:03:57,275 --> 00:04:00,975 but still the labor costs are far outpacing 100 00:04:01,245 --> 00:04:03,935 what the reimbursement levels are at insurance companies. 101 00:04:03,955 --> 00:04:05,495 So you've got this labor 102 00:04:05,915 --> 00:04:08,895 and financial stress right now that's, that's facing, um, 103 00:04:09,035 --> 00:04:10,695 that's a big challenge in dental today. 104 00:04:12,055 --> 00:04:14,715 - And I kind of have a, a two-prong question 105 00:04:14,855 --> 00:04:15,875 for our next one. 106 00:04:16,095 --> 00:04:18,475 So first, what are you most excited 107 00:04:18,475 --> 00:04:19,675 about in the dental space? 108 00:04:19,895 --> 00:04:22,155 And then second, what makes you most nervous? 109 00:04:23,765 --> 00:04:25,655 - Good question. Uh, excellent question. 110 00:04:25,885 --> 00:04:27,695 What are some like, excited about opportunities? 111 00:04:28,335 --> 00:04:30,135 I think that it, what, what, right now, the buzzword, 112 00:04:30,175 --> 00:04:32,415 I don't wanna just jump on anybody in the bandwagon, 113 00:04:32,555 --> 00:04:36,855 but, um, AI capabilities within the world of dental, 114 00:04:37,095 --> 00:04:41,575 I don't, I don't see AI replacing people, um, as far 115 00:04:41,575 --> 00:04:43,775 as the late, the clinicians, uh, 116 00:04:43,775 --> 00:04:45,375 and the clinical aspect of the business. 117 00:04:45,795 --> 00:04:49,695 Um, but there's plenty of, of, of administrative 118 00:04:50,375 --> 00:04:52,775 responsibilities and ways to communicate 119 00:04:52,775 --> 00:04:54,175 with patients more effectively 120 00:04:54,235 --> 00:04:56,895 and more timely that I think AI is, 121 00:04:56,955 --> 00:04:58,655 is right now poised to help with that. 122 00:04:58,915 --> 00:05:00,535 Uh, we see a lot of different platforms. 123 00:05:00,555 --> 00:05:02,375 We review a lot of platforms in that space, 124 00:05:02,835 --> 00:05:05,895 and, um, there's no one perfect platform yet. 125 00:05:06,275 --> 00:05:09,415 But, um, as that constantly develop, develops, 126 00:05:09,965 --> 00:05:12,055 it's gonna make practices more effective. 127 00:05:12,135 --> 00:05:14,455 I think they'll be able to see more patients, uh, by doing 128 00:05:14,455 --> 00:05:17,615 that and also, uh, create probably even a happier workforce 129 00:05:17,955 --> 00:05:19,375 by enabling tools for them. 130 00:05:19,435 --> 00:05:22,015 So AI, I think is, is really exciting today. 131 00:05:22,475 --> 00:05:27,415 Um, I think that the, the concerns right now I think is, 132 00:05:27,675 --> 00:05:29,775 is, is still, there's a, we're still in an, 133 00:05:29,835 --> 00:05:31,815 an inflationary environment, um, 134 00:05:31,995 --> 00:05:33,775 and with that inflationary environment 135 00:05:34,195 --> 00:05:36,335 and the stagnant reimbursements 136 00:05:36,335 --> 00:05:38,495 and what, what dentist prac dental practices are able 137 00:05:38,495 --> 00:05:43,395 to charge, it's not a apples to apples environment. 138 00:05:43,465 --> 00:05:45,995 It's really you as a business owner, 139 00:05:46,015 --> 00:05:47,355 you really have to juggle. 140 00:05:47,895 --> 00:05:51,315 Um, that's a fine balance between rising cost, uh, 141 00:05:51,455 --> 00:05:52,475 and stagnant cost 142 00:05:52,575 --> 00:05:54,635 or reimbursements at the insurance payer level. 143 00:05:54,855 --> 00:05:56,275 So you have to get creative on 144 00:05:56,275 --> 00:05:57,905 where your patients come from, uh, 145 00:05:57,905 --> 00:05:59,305 what your sources of revenue are. 146 00:05:59,645 --> 00:06:03,035 Um, so right now that's still a little bit of a concern. 147 00:06:03,605 --> 00:06:06,195 Again, cost labor still just right now is still a 148 00:06:06,195 --> 00:06:07,795 lingering aspect of it. 149 00:06:07,935 --> 00:06:10,595 Um, I think that we need more dentists coming outta dental 150 00:06:10,595 --> 00:06:12,955 school also and more dental schools being created, um, 151 00:06:12,955 --> 00:06:15,795 because our population is growing tremendously and, 152 00:06:16,175 --> 00:06:17,555 and there's a lot of people to serve. 153 00:06:18,015 --> 00:06:21,115 Um, and I, I think a concern, additional concern could be, 154 00:06:21,455 --> 00:06:23,915 are there enough, um, dentists coming outta school 155 00:06:23,935 --> 00:06:26,915 to service that, and Hyn 156 00:06:26,935 --> 00:06:28,955 and the hygienist programs also, 157 00:06:28,955 --> 00:06:29,995 they need more schools for that. 158 00:06:30,295 --> 00:06:32,675 And I think that's also contributing to the high labor cost, 159 00:06:32,895 --> 00:06:35,715 uh, with hygienists when you have a very, I think, 160 00:06:35,715 --> 00:06:37,595 constricted labor force, obviously that 161 00:06:38,195 --> 00:06:39,555 increases increases rates. 162 00:06:39,735 --> 00:06:42,475 So those, those factors are one that's exciting, 163 00:06:42,855 --> 00:06:46,125 but also one that we just have to, um, have to, 164 00:06:46,425 --> 00:06:48,005 it is a little troubling and concerning right now. 165 00:06:48,385 --> 00:06:50,285 Um, but hopefully it'll get better in time. 166 00:06:51,605 --> 00:06:54,885 - Absolutely. And my final question for you today here is 167 00:06:54,955 --> 00:06:57,285 what will the most effective healthcare leaders need 168 00:06:57,285 --> 00:06:59,325 to be successful in the next two to three years? 169 00:07:01,245 --> 00:07:02,765 - A leader today, we'll say, you know, 170 00:07:02,765 --> 00:07:04,485 in our world we're talking about the really the dentist, 171 00:07:04,585 --> 00:07:06,125 at the end of the day, the dentist is 172 00:07:06,125 --> 00:07:07,365 that leader in that practice. 173 00:07:07,785 --> 00:07:10,725 Um, you could have some admin help, you could have, um, 174 00:07:11,105 --> 00:07:13,965 you know, c-level folks in the background helping run the 175 00:07:14,165 --> 00:07:16,885 business, but at the end of the day, the dentist is the one 176 00:07:17,035 --> 00:07:18,845 that everybody in that practice is 177 00:07:18,845 --> 00:07:19,965 looking to as their leader. 178 00:07:20,265 --> 00:07:21,605 And so I think a, a dentist 179 00:07:21,745 --> 00:07:24,645 or a leader in our field, in the world of dentistry has 180 00:07:24,645 --> 00:07:27,565 to be much more well-rounded in 181 00:07:28,105 --> 00:07:29,765 not just being a great clinician, 182 00:07:30,025 --> 00:07:32,565 but understanding, um, the practice 183 00:07:32,565 --> 00:07:34,725 and understanding the human component. 184 00:07:34,915 --> 00:07:36,885 That hr, they're almost like an HR specialist. 185 00:07:36,885 --> 00:07:38,565 They have to be a finance specialist, they have 186 00:07:38,565 --> 00:07:39,925 to be a business specialist, they have 187 00:07:39,925 --> 00:07:42,205 to be an HR specialist, um, 188 00:07:42,265 --> 00:07:44,405 and one that can communicate really well with the staff 189 00:07:44,665 --> 00:07:47,165 and also be able to communicate well with the patients. 190 00:07:47,355 --> 00:07:49,805 It's really, I would say it starts, 191 00:07:49,895 --> 00:07:51,325 leadership starts at the top 192 00:07:51,545 --> 00:07:53,845 and in, in the practice dental practice, the business 193 00:07:53,845 --> 00:07:55,605 that we're in, it starts with that dentist. 194 00:07:55,905 --> 00:07:58,245 So I think they need to be a little bit more, well, 195 00:07:58,365 --> 00:08:02,605 ra well-rounded in the, um, business side of, of dentistry. 196 00:08:03,025 --> 00:08:06,195 Um, that I think if you went back, you know, th 20, 197 00:08:06,195 --> 00:08:08,275 30 years, that wasn't always the case. 198 00:08:08,755 --> 00:08:10,075 Dentists just wanted to practice. 199 00:08:10,425 --> 00:08:13,395 It's our job as, as folks that are helping manage practice 200 00:08:13,575 --> 00:08:15,635 and helping support them to help them be, 201 00:08:15,875 --> 00:08:16,915 continue to be a great clinician. 202 00:08:17,095 --> 00:08:19,835 But I think there's a benefit, um, if they're able to 203 00:08:20,375 --> 00:08:22,915 be more well-rounded in the business of dentistry, 204 00:08:22,935 --> 00:08:24,155 not just clinical dentistry. 205 00:08:24,295 --> 00:08:25,395 And that'll, that'll help them. 206 00:08:26,525 --> 00:08:28,005 - Absolutely. Well, thank you so much 207 00:08:28,005 --> 00:08:30,325 for joining me today on the Becker's Healthcare Podcast. 208 00:08:30,535 --> 00:08:31,885 Again, we're live at the business 209 00:08:31,885 --> 00:08:33,885 and operations of ASCs in the future 210 00:08:33,905 --> 00:08:36,045 of Dentistry Roundtable. Thanks so much. 211 00:08:36,135 --> 00:08:40,525 - Thank you for having me. - It's so important 212 00:08:40,525 --> 00:08:42,925 for leaders at the top of organizations to keep learning, 213 00:08:43,155 --> 00:08:44,925 stay sharp, grow their networks, 214 00:08:45,315 --> 00:08:47,845 help our audience better do this in a more simplified, 215 00:08:47,845 --> 00:08:49,525 personalized, and meaningful way. 216 00:08:50,085 --> 00:08:52,565 Becker's Healthcare has launched my BHC, 217 00:08:53,035 --> 00:08:55,005 it's your trusted Becker's healthcare experience 218 00:08:55,045 --> 00:08:57,245 and more with content, connections, events, 219 00:08:57,305 --> 00:09:00,125 and learning opportunities, join the community free 220 00:09:00,125 --> 00:09:04,925 of charge@www.my dot becker's hospital review.com 221 00:09:05,025 --> 00:09:05,845 and we'll see you there.