1 00:00:02,080 --> 00:00:04,580 This is where health care leadership comes together. 2 00:00:04,719 --> 00:00:07,839 Becker's sixteenth annual meeting brings more than 3,500 3 00:00:07,839 --> 00:00:11,039 hospital and health system executives and nearly 800 4 00:00:11,039 --> 00:00:14,419 speakers to Chicago April. 5 00:00:14,835 --> 00:00:17,475 This year's event includes keynote conversations with Dallas 6 00:00:17,475 --> 00:00:20,434 Cowboys legend Troy Aikman and former president George 7 00:00:20,434 --> 00:00:23,074 w Bush. For the agenda and event details, 8 00:00:23,074 --> 00:00:25,394 visit beckershospitalreview.com 9 00:00:25,394 --> 00:00:26,994 and click on the events tab in the 10 00:00:26,994 --> 00:00:29,714 upper right. We're looking forward to hosting you 11 00:00:29,714 --> 00:00:30,454 in Chicago. 12 00:00:32,570 --> 00:00:35,850 This is Scott Becker with the Becker's Healthcare 13 00:00:35,850 --> 00:00:36,350 Podcast 14 00:00:36,809 --> 00:00:38,890 with a special episode that will also go 15 00:00:38,890 --> 00:00:41,070 in the Becker's Behavioral Healthcare Podcast. 16 00:00:41,929 --> 00:00:44,750 We're talking today with a brilliant leader, 17 00:00:45,195 --> 00:00:45,695 John 18 00:00:46,075 --> 00:00:49,995 Meyer. John's the CEO, chief executive officer of 19 00:00:49,995 --> 00:00:51,695 Aurora Charter Oak Hospital. 20 00:00:52,075 --> 00:00:53,755 We're going to talk to John about the 21 00:00:53,755 --> 00:00:56,315 issues he's watching about his career and a 22 00:00:56,315 --> 00:00:57,054 lot more. 23 00:00:57,355 --> 00:00:58,875 I noticed when I was looking him up 24 00:00:58,875 --> 00:01:01,829 this morning, he's also an Indiana University graduate. 25 00:01:02,130 --> 00:01:03,649 So we will talk for a moment about 26 00:01:03,649 --> 00:01:05,750 Indiana Hoosier football as well. 27 00:01:06,370 --> 00:01:07,730 John, let me ask you to take a 28 00:01:07,730 --> 00:01:09,890 moment to introduce yourself and tell us a 29 00:01:09,890 --> 00:01:10,790 little bit about 30 00:01:11,170 --> 00:01:11,909 your background, 31 00:01:12,555 --> 00:01:13,995 and how you ended up in the behavioral 32 00:01:13,995 --> 00:01:16,395 health field. I know you worked at Crowe 33 00:01:16,395 --> 00:01:17,995 for a period of time, a great, great 34 00:01:17,995 --> 00:01:19,055 consulting firm, 35 00:01:19,515 --> 00:01:22,075 that we've got close colleagues at. Talk a 36 00:01:22,075 --> 00:01:23,674 bit about your career and how you ended 37 00:01:23,674 --> 00:01:25,375 up in leadership in behavioral health. 38 00:01:25,810 --> 00:01:27,109 Yeah. Thanks for having me on. 39 00:01:27,810 --> 00:01:30,689 My career in behavioral health is a bit 40 00:01:30,689 --> 00:01:32,150 of a circuitous one. 41 00:01:32,770 --> 00:01:35,750 I grew up in a family where, 42 00:01:36,450 --> 00:01:38,209 my parents work in health care. My mom's 43 00:01:38,209 --> 00:01:40,370 a nurse. My father's a physician. My oldest 44 00:01:40,370 --> 00:01:42,655 sister's a nurse. My other sister, she's a 45 00:01:42,655 --> 00:01:43,155 psychologist. 46 00:01:43,854 --> 00:01:46,174 And just grew up at the dinner table 47 00:01:46,174 --> 00:01:47,394 having a lot of conversations, 48 00:01:48,094 --> 00:01:50,575 you know, either directly related or tangentially related 49 00:01:50,575 --> 00:01:51,795 to the health care space. 50 00:01:52,415 --> 00:01:54,114 So I always 51 00:01:55,310 --> 00:01:57,969 knew I was going into this field. 52 00:01:59,709 --> 00:02:03,150 My career path to behavioral health is one 53 00:02:03,150 --> 00:02:05,890 that is really dictated and and built, 54 00:02:06,430 --> 00:02:07,409 upon relationships. 55 00:02:08,135 --> 00:02:10,875 When I was an undergrad at Indiana University, 56 00:02:11,094 --> 00:02:13,675 I, one of my professors, Dean Scallon, 57 00:02:14,135 --> 00:02:16,955 was an adjunct professor, a CEO in Bloomington 58 00:02:17,175 --> 00:02:19,495 of a behavioral health facility. I was lucky 59 00:02:19,495 --> 00:02:21,574 enough to intern with her, and that was 60 00:02:21,574 --> 00:02:22,955 really my initial foray 61 00:02:24,010 --> 00:02:25,629 into, health care administration 62 00:02:26,010 --> 00:02:29,069 in general, but specifically in the behavioral space. 63 00:02:29,770 --> 00:02:32,569 I worked in management consulting before moving into 64 00:02:32,569 --> 00:02:33,069 administration, 65 00:02:33,930 --> 00:02:35,710 but was presented with an opportunity, 66 00:02:36,330 --> 00:02:38,810 in San Antonio at San Antonio Behavioral Healthcare 67 00:02:38,810 --> 00:02:40,805 Hospital as the chief operating officer. 68 00:02:41,344 --> 00:02:42,245 And the 69 00:02:43,264 --> 00:02:43,764 attractive 70 00:02:44,144 --> 00:02:46,084 thing about that position was 71 00:02:46,625 --> 00:02:49,745 their services that they provide for active duty 72 00:02:49,745 --> 00:02:51,125 service members and veterans. 73 00:02:51,745 --> 00:02:52,405 My brother-in-law, 74 00:02:52,969 --> 00:02:55,210 you know, did three tours. Three of my 75 00:02:55,210 --> 00:02:56,590 uncles served in Vietnam. 76 00:02:56,969 --> 00:02:59,310 Both of my grandfathers in World War two. 77 00:02:59,449 --> 00:03:01,849 So that holds a very special place in 78 00:03:01,849 --> 00:03:02,509 my heart, 79 00:03:03,050 --> 00:03:05,050 and was a big selling point for me. 80 00:03:05,050 --> 00:03:06,990 You know, fast forward a few years, 81 00:03:07,849 --> 00:03:08,349 and 82 00:03:09,185 --> 00:03:11,444 I was presented with an opportunity 83 00:03:12,384 --> 00:03:14,245 to move out here to California, 84 00:03:14,784 --> 00:03:16,865 and that arrives us where we're at today, 85 00:03:17,104 --> 00:03:19,925 in in leading Charter Oak Hospital, which is 86 00:03:19,985 --> 00:03:21,905 one of the largest privately held, 87 00:03:22,305 --> 00:03:24,324 psychiatric hospitals in Southern California. 88 00:03:25,180 --> 00:03:27,180 Well well, thank you. And tell us about 89 00:03:27,180 --> 00:03:29,979 Charter Oak Hospital and about the core trends 90 00:03:29,979 --> 00:03:32,239 that you're watching right now in behavioral health. 91 00:03:33,099 --> 00:03:34,000 Charter Oak, 92 00:03:34,379 --> 00:03:35,280 I had mentioned 93 00:03:36,379 --> 00:03:36,879 for 94 00:03:37,180 --> 00:03:38,250 a a psychiatric 95 00:03:38,705 --> 00:03:41,185 facility or behavioral health care provider is quite 96 00:03:41,185 --> 00:03:42,944 large. We operate a 134 97 00:03:42,944 --> 00:03:45,745 inpatient beds. We have an on campus residential 98 00:03:45,745 --> 00:03:46,645 treatment center, 99 00:03:47,185 --> 00:03:48,805 and we also offer, 100 00:03:49,425 --> 00:03:52,004 multiple levels of outpatient treatment, 101 00:03:52,705 --> 00:03:53,525 on campus. 102 00:03:54,469 --> 00:03:56,389 In behavioral health care and health care in 103 00:03:56,389 --> 00:03:58,969 general, it's, an extremely dynamic 104 00:03:59,830 --> 00:04:02,889 environment. And California is at an interesting inflection 105 00:04:03,030 --> 00:04:05,189 point and some, you know, some trends or, 106 00:04:05,189 --> 00:04:07,209 you know, hot ticket items that 107 00:04:07,635 --> 00:04:08,135 I 108 00:04:08,995 --> 00:04:10,135 and our entire organization 109 00:04:10,675 --> 00:04:12,675 is watching is, you know, one, what's the 110 00:04:12,675 --> 00:04:14,594 role of technology in the delivery of health 111 00:04:14,594 --> 00:04:15,094 care? 112 00:04:15,555 --> 00:04:18,214 You know, just today, OpenAI announced CHATCPT 113 00:04:18,514 --> 00:04:19,014 Health, 114 00:04:19,555 --> 00:04:21,735 which I think, you know, has the potential 115 00:04:21,875 --> 00:04:22,615 to be, 116 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:25,020 monumental for the consumer. 117 00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:29,100 But how does technology get integrated into 118 00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:31,020 the delivery of health care, 119 00:04:31,639 --> 00:04:34,060 is a really interesting future proposition. 120 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:37,259 I think the the second topic, 121 00:04:37,664 --> 00:04:38,884 for us specifically 122 00:04:39,425 --> 00:04:40,305 are the, 123 00:04:41,104 --> 00:04:43,685 dynamic and and changing clinical challenges, 124 00:04:44,784 --> 00:04:47,264 of our patients and how do we as 125 00:04:47,264 --> 00:04:48,644 a provider adapt 126 00:04:49,104 --> 00:04:51,689 with the recruitment of expertise, with the changing 127 00:04:51,689 --> 00:04:54,170 of the physical environment, with the structuring of 128 00:04:54,170 --> 00:04:54,670 teams, 129 00:04:55,050 --> 00:04:56,670 with the delivery of services. 130 00:04:58,169 --> 00:04:59,470 And the third topic, 131 00:05:00,089 --> 00:05:01,709 that's really top of mind 132 00:05:02,404 --> 00:05:04,564 for me and our entire leadership team right 133 00:05:04,564 --> 00:05:07,305 now, most notably, is the impact of regulation 134 00:05:07,365 --> 00:05:08,105 and legislation, 135 00:05:08,884 --> 00:05:10,824 that's impacting the entire industry. 136 00:05:12,004 --> 00:05:12,504 Your, 137 00:05:12,965 --> 00:05:15,225 publication has done a great job of covering, 138 00:05:15,764 --> 00:05:17,225 the the most recent, 139 00:05:18,139 --> 00:05:20,060 regulatory change, which is the, 140 00:05:20,779 --> 00:05:21,279 imposition 141 00:05:21,659 --> 00:05:23,599 of new nursing staffing ratios 142 00:05:23,979 --> 00:05:27,199 for acute psychiatric hospitals, which is going to, 143 00:05:27,979 --> 00:05:28,800 have a 144 00:05:29,180 --> 00:05:30,615 massive widespread effect. 145 00:05:31,095 --> 00:05:33,354 And and it's a really monumental, 146 00:05:34,694 --> 00:05:37,414 sort of inflection point for the entire behavioral 147 00:05:37,414 --> 00:05:38,474 health care industry, 148 00:05:39,095 --> 00:05:39,914 across California. 149 00:05:41,175 --> 00:05:43,014 Thank you very, very much. And and and 150 00:05:43,014 --> 00:05:45,334 talk about that. The nurse staffing ratios at 151 00:05:45,334 --> 00:05:45,914 a time 152 00:05:46,310 --> 00:05:48,389 when people are trying to change and have 153 00:05:48,389 --> 00:05:50,069 flexibility in how they develop 154 00:05:50,790 --> 00:05:52,650 deliver care and workflows. 155 00:05:53,189 --> 00:05:54,870 Talk about the challenges of that kind of 156 00:05:54,870 --> 00:05:56,629 legislation, if you don't mind. You and you 157 00:05:56,629 --> 00:05:57,910 don't have to if you if you don't 158 00:05:57,910 --> 00:05:58,569 want to. 159 00:05:59,254 --> 00:06:00,855 No. I I I I'd be happy to, 160 00:06:00,855 --> 00:06:02,535 and I think that we could probably spend 161 00:06:02,535 --> 00:06:04,535 the next twenty minutes talking about this because 162 00:06:04,535 --> 00:06:06,235 it's a really complicated issue. 163 00:06:07,814 --> 00:06:08,314 The 164 00:06:09,014 --> 00:06:11,514 the stated goals of our, 165 00:06:12,855 --> 00:06:13,355 of 166 00:06:13,779 --> 00:06:14,919 elected officials 167 00:06:15,459 --> 00:06:16,600 in California 168 00:06:16,979 --> 00:06:17,720 are to 169 00:06:18,259 --> 00:06:19,800 improve access and 170 00:06:20,259 --> 00:06:21,959 outcomes and safety. 171 00:06:22,740 --> 00:06:25,060 I think that those are all goals that 172 00:06:25,060 --> 00:06:28,120 every single person working in health care agrees 173 00:06:28,180 --> 00:06:28,680 with. 174 00:06:29,464 --> 00:06:33,384 The challenge with the nursing ratios is it 175 00:06:33,384 --> 00:06:35,245 does not factor in 176 00:06:35,944 --> 00:06:36,444 the 177 00:06:37,384 --> 00:06:38,605 nuanced differences 178 00:06:39,064 --> 00:06:40,925 of the delivery of care in a psychiatric 179 00:06:41,144 --> 00:06:43,225 setting, which is very much reliant on a 180 00:06:43,225 --> 00:06:43,725 multidisciplinary 181 00:06:44,345 --> 00:06:44,845 team. 182 00:06:45,199 --> 00:06:47,540 And that, you know, very simplistically 183 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:49,060 is the biggest 184 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:50,740 dichotomy between 185 00:06:51,439 --> 00:06:51,939 psychiatry 186 00:06:52,319 --> 00:06:54,500 and the way in which our staff composition 187 00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:55,060 looks 188 00:06:55,360 --> 00:06:57,300 versus medical surgical settings. 189 00:06:57,944 --> 00:07:00,284 And in a psychiatric 190 00:07:00,584 --> 00:07:01,084 setting, 191 00:07:01,464 --> 00:07:04,185 what the impact for us is going to 192 00:07:04,185 --> 00:07:05,084 be in, 193 00:07:05,464 --> 00:07:08,745 you know, complying with new nursing ratios, number 194 00:07:08,745 --> 00:07:11,404 one, most notably, this was not published until, 195 00:07:12,029 --> 00:07:14,430 December 23. Right? Just a few days before 196 00:07:14,430 --> 00:07:18,289 Christmas with an implementation date of January 31, 197 00:07:18,589 --> 00:07:21,149 giving us roughly five and a half to 198 00:07:21,149 --> 00:07:21,970 six weeks 199 00:07:22,589 --> 00:07:23,970 to implement this. 200 00:07:24,270 --> 00:07:26,449 Now because we have not been subject 201 00:07:27,014 --> 00:07:27,675 historically to 202 00:07:28,214 --> 00:07:28,714 these, 203 00:07:30,134 --> 00:07:31,115 type of stringent 204 00:07:31,654 --> 00:07:32,714 nursing ratios, 205 00:07:33,654 --> 00:07:34,394 that requires 206 00:07:34,774 --> 00:07:36,074 a very rapid 207 00:07:36,535 --> 00:07:37,035 accelerated 208 00:07:37,495 --> 00:07:38,555 ramp up period, 209 00:07:39,574 --> 00:07:40,314 or process 210 00:07:41,069 --> 00:07:42,370 to get in compliance. 211 00:07:43,709 --> 00:07:46,209 The challenge with that being is the hiring, 212 00:07:46,349 --> 00:07:50,289 the recruiting, the onboarding, the orientation, the training 213 00:07:50,349 --> 00:07:50,849 process 214 00:07:51,550 --> 00:07:54,050 takes longer than just the implementation 215 00:07:54,430 --> 00:07:55,729 window we've been given. 216 00:07:56,474 --> 00:07:58,094 So the immediate impact 217 00:07:58,555 --> 00:08:00,875 and in one of the articles that Becker's 218 00:08:00,875 --> 00:08:03,214 had published, it referenced, Peggy Minnick's 219 00:08:03,675 --> 00:08:05,034 commentary with the, 220 00:08:05,675 --> 00:08:08,175 CDPH call that we had two weeks ago 221 00:08:08,555 --> 00:08:09,779 or or last week, 222 00:08:10,740 --> 00:08:13,800 are spot on where it calls into question 223 00:08:14,019 --> 00:08:14,519 the, 224 00:08:15,699 --> 00:08:17,399 viability of this. And 225 00:08:17,779 --> 00:08:19,240 the the the ramification 226 00:08:19,939 --> 00:08:20,439 for 227 00:08:21,220 --> 00:08:22,279 emergency rooms 228 00:08:22,604 --> 00:08:24,685 and other health care providers that are not 229 00:08:24,685 --> 00:08:27,324 necessarily in the psychiatric space, at least in 230 00:08:27,324 --> 00:08:28,224 the short term. 231 00:08:29,004 --> 00:08:30,764 Thank you. And and talk about as you 232 00:08:30,764 --> 00:08:32,764 head into 2026 233 00:08:32,764 --> 00:08:33,904 and and were there, 234 00:08:34,524 --> 00:08:36,365 what are you most focused on and excited 235 00:08:36,365 --> 00:08:37,745 about this year, John? 236 00:08:38,939 --> 00:08:39,439 Well, 237 00:08:41,100 --> 00:08:42,879 most focused right now 238 00:08:43,419 --> 00:08:43,919 on 239 00:08:45,740 --> 00:08:47,120 the staffing ratios, 240 00:08:47,980 --> 00:08:48,799 just because 241 00:08:49,339 --> 00:08:50,639 of the immediacy 242 00:08:51,100 --> 00:08:53,919 of that. But zooming out a little bit, 243 00:08:55,024 --> 00:08:57,044 I'm still very excited about 244 00:08:58,065 --> 00:09:01,204 the behavioral health care industry in general. 245 00:09:01,664 --> 00:09:02,325 I think, 246 00:09:03,264 --> 00:09:06,004 there is the possibility of a positive byproduct 247 00:09:06,419 --> 00:09:08,899 of these staffing ratios because it's drawing attention 248 00:09:08,899 --> 00:09:10,899 to the fact that we need greater access. 249 00:09:10,899 --> 00:09:12,200 We need more resources. 250 00:09:12,980 --> 00:09:15,539 More people in our state and across the 251 00:09:15,539 --> 00:09:16,039 country 252 00:09:16,659 --> 00:09:19,799 need more quality behavioral health care services. 253 00:09:20,214 --> 00:09:22,855 And I think that just in conversations we've 254 00:09:22,855 --> 00:09:24,875 had this week and and last week, 255 00:09:25,254 --> 00:09:28,475 there is a groundswell and a large coalition 256 00:09:28,615 --> 00:09:30,615 of people who agree with me. And I 257 00:09:30,615 --> 00:09:33,355 think that that's been evidenced by the leadership 258 00:09:33,414 --> 00:09:35,575 team at the LA County Department of Mental 259 00:09:35,575 --> 00:09:35,909 Health 260 00:09:36,389 --> 00:09:39,209 and the state assembly. And, 261 00:09:40,870 --> 00:09:42,949 from local clinics all the way up to 262 00:09:42,949 --> 00:09:45,929 the governor's office, there's a recognition that behavioral 263 00:09:45,990 --> 00:09:47,669 health needs to be a priority in the 264 00:09:47,669 --> 00:09:48,569 state of California. 265 00:09:50,465 --> 00:09:51,845 I'm excited about 266 00:09:52,544 --> 00:09:54,304 the team and what we do here at 267 00:09:54,304 --> 00:09:58,544 Charter Oak. In 2025, we alone serve 7,500 268 00:09:58,544 --> 00:09:59,044 patients. 269 00:09:59,504 --> 00:10:00,004 And 270 00:10:01,504 --> 00:10:04,144 what's interesting about us, because there's a lot 271 00:10:04,144 --> 00:10:06,149 of new providers in the space, which is 272 00:10:06,149 --> 00:10:06,649 great, 273 00:10:07,110 --> 00:10:09,509 what's different about Charter Oak is our history 274 00:10:09,509 --> 00:10:11,289 dates back to the nineteen forties. 275 00:10:11,990 --> 00:10:14,250 The building that I'm sitting in right now, 276 00:10:15,429 --> 00:10:17,289 has operated as 277 00:10:18,154 --> 00:10:20,554 some form or fashion of behavioral health care 278 00:10:20,554 --> 00:10:21,054 provider, 279 00:10:22,475 --> 00:10:23,934 for many, many decades. 280 00:10:24,715 --> 00:10:27,915 And that's exciting. And the role that we 281 00:10:27,915 --> 00:10:29,754 play here you know, I had mentioned we 282 00:10:29,754 --> 00:10:32,095 served almost 8,000 patients in 283 00:10:32,589 --> 00:10:33,629 2025 284 00:10:33,629 --> 00:10:34,129 alone. 285 00:10:35,149 --> 00:10:38,190 The reality of behavioral health is that when 286 00:10:38,190 --> 00:10:39,470 our patients are, 287 00:10:39,950 --> 00:10:41,409 afflicted with these challenges, 288 00:10:41,789 --> 00:10:43,089 with the symptomology 289 00:10:44,190 --> 00:10:47,054 of psychiatric disorders, is it affects 290 00:10:47,455 --> 00:10:49,455 many of their loved ones around them. It's 291 00:10:49,455 --> 00:10:51,394 friends, it's family, it's mothers, it's 292 00:10:51,774 --> 00:10:52,495 partners, it's, 293 00:10:54,095 --> 00:10:54,595 coworkers. 294 00:10:55,214 --> 00:10:58,894 And treating 8,000 patients a year has a 295 00:10:58,894 --> 00:11:02,070 magnifying effect in the sense that we're providing 296 00:11:02,070 --> 00:11:03,129 a positive impact, 297 00:11:04,309 --> 00:11:07,269 orders of magnitude larger than that. And I'm 298 00:11:07,269 --> 00:11:09,590 excited to continue to try and expand our 299 00:11:09,590 --> 00:11:10,889 ability to do so 300 00:11:11,269 --> 00:11:13,610 and to make a difference in our community. 301 00:11:14,654 --> 00:11:17,235 John, you're having an incredible leadership career. 302 00:11:17,615 --> 00:11:19,454 Like, I wanna do two things. I I 303 00:11:19,454 --> 00:11:20,894 wanna be able to ask you for your 304 00:11:20,894 --> 00:11:22,815 advice that you would give to emerging leaders. 305 00:11:22,815 --> 00:11:25,134 You're having just this remarkable career. I'm so 306 00:11:25,134 --> 00:11:27,394 impressed with what you're doing. It's literally fantastic. 307 00:11:28,309 --> 00:11:30,070 And I want you to use that opportunity 308 00:11:30,070 --> 00:11:31,209 to talk about leadership 309 00:11:31,669 --> 00:11:33,750 to also lean in if you'd like to 310 00:11:33,750 --> 00:11:35,830 any comments you wanna make about sort of 311 00:11:35,830 --> 00:11:39,029 Kurt Cignetti's leadership at Indiana University because I 312 00:11:39,029 --> 00:11:41,269 I I know you're a fan. So any 313 00:11:41,269 --> 00:11:43,664 thoughts, advice you'd give to emerging leaders in 314 00:11:43,824 --> 00:11:45,904 any editorial or comments you wanna make about 315 00:11:45,904 --> 00:11:46,804 Indiana football? 316 00:11:47,664 --> 00:11:48,404 Any thoughts? 317 00:11:49,345 --> 00:11:50,884 I think every leader 318 00:11:51,745 --> 00:11:55,184 I cannot stress the importance enough of being 319 00:11:55,184 --> 00:11:55,684 dynamic. 320 00:11:56,539 --> 00:12:00,379 I think that rigidity of thought is extremely 321 00:12:00,379 --> 00:12:00,879 dangerous. 322 00:12:01,339 --> 00:12:04,639 You hear the adage of being lifelong learners. 323 00:12:05,019 --> 00:12:07,759 Well, if you want to be a leader, 324 00:12:08,059 --> 00:12:10,940 that is a requirement, not a nice to 325 00:12:10,940 --> 00:12:11,440 have. 326 00:12:11,924 --> 00:12:14,424 I think that individual leaders, organizations 327 00:12:14,965 --> 00:12:17,304 need to constantly learn and adapt 328 00:12:17,684 --> 00:12:20,424 in our fast paced and ever changing environment. 329 00:12:21,365 --> 00:12:23,845 I had mentioned, you know, rigidity of thought 330 00:12:23,845 --> 00:12:24,585 is dangerous 331 00:12:25,120 --> 00:12:26,980 because when you are closed off 332 00:12:27,759 --> 00:12:30,980 to oppositional thought or different ways of thinking 333 00:12:31,039 --> 00:12:32,659 or different ways of working, 334 00:12:33,199 --> 00:12:34,659 then your organization 335 00:12:35,039 --> 00:12:35,939 or you yourself 336 00:12:36,639 --> 00:12:38,419 run the fear of becoming stagnant. 337 00:12:38,985 --> 00:12:40,904 I think the second thing and and sort 338 00:12:40,904 --> 00:12:42,924 of, you know, the segue into 339 00:12:43,544 --> 00:12:46,504 what I find most remarkable about what Kurt 340 00:12:46,504 --> 00:12:48,985 Cignetti has done at Indiana and sort of 341 00:12:48,985 --> 00:12:52,184 bringing that into the context of leadership in 342 00:12:52,184 --> 00:12:52,684 general 343 00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:55,720 is the importance of, you know, toughness and 344 00:12:55,720 --> 00:12:56,220 grit. 345 00:12:56,600 --> 00:12:58,139 I think that he 346 00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:00,299 has had a very interesting 347 00:13:00,759 --> 00:13:03,259 path to Indiana University from 348 00:13:03,879 --> 00:13:07,500 Alabama to IUPUI to James Madison to 349 00:13:08,014 --> 00:13:09,154 now operating, 350 00:13:09,535 --> 00:13:10,115 you know, 351 00:13:10,654 --> 00:13:12,575 a a football program that is on the 352 00:13:12,575 --> 00:13:15,075 cusp of playing in a national championship game. 353 00:13:15,215 --> 00:13:16,754 Right? We have been the historical 354 00:13:17,535 --> 00:13:18,835 losing its program 355 00:13:19,215 --> 00:13:21,659 in the history of college football, and what 356 00:13:21,659 --> 00:13:24,639 he has done is nothing short of, 357 00:13:26,059 --> 00:13:28,940 a miracle quite honestly. But that doesn't happen 358 00:13:28,940 --> 00:13:31,600 by accident. Right? I think that Kurt Cignetti 359 00:13:31,740 --> 00:13:32,559 is extremely 360 00:13:33,100 --> 00:13:36,080 organized. I think that he has ability to 361 00:13:36,945 --> 00:13:39,184 get the best out of the people around 362 00:13:39,184 --> 00:13:40,785 him, and it starts at the top. It 363 00:13:40,785 --> 00:13:42,465 starts at the way in which he conducts 364 00:13:42,465 --> 00:13:44,465 himself, the way he goes about his own 365 00:13:44,465 --> 00:13:46,465 business, and the way that he has been 366 00:13:46,465 --> 00:13:48,625 able to you know, especially in the port 367 00:13:48,865 --> 00:13:52,165 the NIL and era of portal transfers, 368 00:13:52,809 --> 00:13:53,629 each year, 369 00:13:54,250 --> 00:13:57,529 he is exhibiting the dynamic qualities that I 370 00:13:57,529 --> 00:13:58,670 talked about previously. 371 00:13:59,129 --> 00:14:01,050 Right? We're in the process right now of 372 00:14:01,050 --> 00:14:03,710 doing an entire roster deconstruction and construction, 373 00:14:04,410 --> 00:14:05,790 and he's balancing 374 00:14:06,475 --> 00:14:08,794 preparing to play Oregon, you know, in twenty 375 00:14:08,794 --> 00:14:09,534 four hours. 376 00:14:09,914 --> 00:14:11,455 I think that that is 377 00:14:12,075 --> 00:14:14,894 incredible, the way he's able to balance competing 378 00:14:16,154 --> 00:14:16,654 demands 379 00:14:17,034 --> 00:14:19,695 on his time, the way he's able to 380 00:14:19,835 --> 00:14:21,674 delegate and get the most out of both 381 00:14:21,674 --> 00:14:23,740 his staff and his players. 382 00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:26,040 And I really admire him, and I think 383 00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:27,179 he's a wonderful leader. 384 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:30,840 Really fantastic. John, I'm so impressed with your 385 00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:33,879 leadership career. I'm a Illinois fan, so it's 386 00:14:33,879 --> 00:14:35,420 so hard for me to cheer for Indiana 387 00:14:35,559 --> 00:14:37,584 even though it's it's a fellow big ten 388 00:14:37,644 --> 00:14:38,144 school. 389 00:14:38,524 --> 00:14:39,884 But it's so hard to see when we've 390 00:14:39,884 --> 00:14:42,365 just been so friendly okay. Indiana's been so 391 00:14:42,365 --> 00:14:43,985 friendly okay in football 392 00:14:44,445 --> 00:14:46,625 to see Indiana take a big leap 393 00:14:47,164 --> 00:14:49,245 above us. I think there's this concept of 394 00:14:49,245 --> 00:14:50,544 misery loving company. 395 00:14:50,899 --> 00:14:51,879 And now that Indiana 396 00:14:52,259 --> 00:14:53,160 is thriving, 397 00:14:53,860 --> 00:14:55,220 they may be, like, they may be thought 398 00:14:55,220 --> 00:14:56,899 of, like, the Wolverines are thought of in 399 00:14:56,899 --> 00:14:59,539 Illinois territory, but we'll see. In any event, 400 00:14:59,539 --> 00:15:00,039 congratulations 401 00:15:00,500 --> 00:15:01,399 on your career. 402 00:15:01,779 --> 00:15:04,259 Congratulations on Indiana. I I am so impressed 403 00:15:04,259 --> 00:15:05,779 with Kurt Cigneti and what he's done. It's 404 00:15:05,779 --> 00:15:07,915 it's impossible not to, but but I'm more 405 00:15:07,915 --> 00:15:09,754 impressed with what you're doing at Charter Oak 406 00:15:09,754 --> 00:15:11,915 in in Aurora Health Care. It's just fantastic 407 00:15:11,915 --> 00:15:13,674 what you guys are all doing. I I 408 00:15:13,674 --> 00:15:15,995 I really appreciate it, Scott, and it's my 409 00:15:15,995 --> 00:15:16,495 pleasure. 410 00:15:17,195 --> 00:15:18,875 And I really appreciate all that you guys 411 00:15:18,875 --> 00:15:19,615 do at Becker's 412 00:15:19,915 --> 00:15:22,440 and all of the support that your publication 413 00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:25,559 has given and advocacy towards behavioral health care 414 00:15:25,559 --> 00:15:27,240 in the past and in covering these key 415 00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:29,160 issues. And I hope that we can do 416 00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:31,160 this again. Looking forward to it. Thank you 417 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:32,460 so much for joining us.