This is in many ways available to all of us and that this is becoming more and more prevalent
and this is where we are all going to be going in this Aquarian age. So within this next 2000
year period we are looking at telepathy, clairaudience, clairvoyance and clairsentience
as being the norm.
Welcome to Buddha at the Gas Pump.
My name is Rick Archer.
Buddha at the Gas Pump is an ongoing series of conversations with spiritually awakening
people.
My guest this week is Tanis Helliwell.
Tanis has seen higher realms and spoken with masters, angels, and elementals since childhood,
And by elementals we mean things like leprechauns, brownies, pixies, goblins, trolls, elves, tree
devas, and more.
She walks in many worlds.
She has led tours in this world to sacred sites for two decades and was a management consultant
working for over 30 years.
And in 2000, she founded the International Institute for Transformation, specializing
in spiritual transformation.
A true mystic who has worked with masters in higher realms since childhood, her gift is
assisting others to develop a soul-infused personal life in harmony with spiritual laws.
Her knowledge and understanding of other worlds and spiritual realms can be found in some of
her most popular books.
I've read three of them in the past couple of weeks, including "The Dragon's Tale," "Hybrids,
So You Think You Are Human," and "Good Morning, Henry, An In-Depth Talk with the Body Intelligence."
So Tanis, I was thinking we could start by trying to lay a foundation, because some people
are going to hear leprechauns, brownies, pixies, goblins, trolls, elves, and tree devas and
think, "Oh, where?
What happened to Rick?
Did he go nuts?"
So I'm going to ask you some questions that will enable you, enable us to put all this
in context and perhaps make it easier for people to understand how such things could
exist and why an understanding of them might be relevant to someone who aspires to self-realization,
for instance.
So maybe you could start by just explaining the multi-dimensional nature of the universe.
Oh, wow!
Do we want the one-line version or the two-hour version here?
Somewhere in between.
Okay.
Most of us here are looking at this three-dimensional reality, but it is a hologram.
Beings, enlightened beings from all over the world have always said we are a dream within
a dream.
This is a dream being dreamt by God.
So what I see is, yes, here we are, but we know scientifically that we are 99.9% ether.
But people don't see us as ether, Rick.
we see ourselves as physical reality. So, in other words, we don't actually see reality
anyway. We don't. So, in my way of looking at it, this is a kindergarten for all of us
to learn how to become conscious creators. So, I don't want to put it down and underestimate
its value. However, there are many different realms, and we are now moving to the astral
realm, a realm of higher frequency.
Pete: Free meaning humanity.
Jodie: Humanity. Humanity and the earth and all beings on the earth, actually. But we
are moving up now to a higher frequency, and in this other frequency, in this astral world,
There are many, as Jesus said, "In my house there are many mansions."
So there's the astral, elemental world, and that's just a little bit higher than the frequency
we're in.
And this is why so many people are interested in elementals, nature spirits by another name,
and why they are even having breakthroughs and seeing elementals.
You might see it out of the corner of your eye, just going quickly by you.
You may hear a word, something like that.
But there are other domains as well.
And when I was preparing for this, and I probably haven't prepared as well as you have, but
when I was preparing for this, I thought that I would read something.
When I meditate, my personal way of meditating is self-realization fellowship and that was
founded by Paramahansa Yogananda.
And there is a lineage there.
And his master was Sri Yukteswar.
And after Sri Yukteswar died, physically died, he appeared to Paramahansa Yogananda.
And this is in the autobiography of a yogi.
And Yogananda was able to physically hold him for two hours and ask him, "What are you doing
now?"
And Sri Yukteswar said, and I'm going to read this, he said, "I'm in a higher astral universe."
And he says, "The ordinary astral universe is peopled with millions of astral beings who
who have come more or less recently from the earth and also with myriads of fairies, mermaids,
fishes, animals, goblins, gnomes, demigods, and spirits, all residing in different astral
planets in accordance with karmic qualifications.
And when he said this, he said, "There are people who will need to know about this in
the future.
So write it in your book."
So this seems to be my life work.
For many years, I wrote about elementals, but I have seen other beings for a long, long
time, ever since I was born, actually.
It's almost as if in myself, it has unwrapped itself and that I started with elementals
and then went on to some of these other beings who are also working with humanity.
Nathaniel So, when you see elementals and have seen
them throughout your life, is it like it would be for me seeing birds on the tree and squirrels
on the ground and things like that?
Are they that obvious, or is it somehow more ethereal or vague or almost imaginary in some
respect?
Well, I see it with my third eye.
So it's helpful for me.
It's like a radio station, and I just tune it to a different station.
So right now I'm with you, but I can tune it to a different station.
And it is extremely easy, just like someone turning a dial.
Can you be on two stations at once?
Could you be walking down the street or talking to me and seeing me or seeing the street and
yet seeing subtle beings?
Almost.
For example, say there was a third person in our conversation here, and I'm having a conversation
with you, but there's some important question that person is wanting to ask.
I will pick up what that question is.
So for me, it's not just seeing, it's also hearing.
So different senses.
Yes, it is.
And I really believe that, although we're focusing on me currently, I believe that this
is in many ways available to all of us, and that this is becoming more and more prevalent,
and this is where we are all going to be going in this Aquarian age.
So within this next 2,000-year period, we are looking at telepathy, clairaudience, clairvoyance,
and clairsentience as being the norm.
And of course, there have been people throughout history who are reputed to have had those capabilities.
And many people wouldn't believe that they did, but many people would.
And there are some scientists like Dean Radin and others who are trying to verify that people
can have these abilities.
And of course, there are near-death experiencers who see things down the hall or across the
earth while they're under anesthesia, and then that's verified.
there's Rupert Sheldrake, dogs that know when their owners are coming home, so even dogs
have such abilities. This kind of stuff is in the histories and folklores and mythologies
and everything of humanity all over the earth, and either everybody has the same imaginations
about such things, or there's actually something going on that people have chronicled.
Dr. Susan Hays: That's right, that's right. And now that we're a global community, we
can actually examine how this is coming out everywhere. And I know you've been speaking
with a lot of scientists, and scientists also are starting to cross over to where spirituality
was. So, they're in this realm now where the two are meeting, and I think this is wonderful.
I mean, as Einstein said, "Unless a person has a sense of awe, they're like a candle
without a whip. So, we're moving into this place.
Pete So, you actually made a point that alluded
to the next question I was going to ask you, which is that you mentioned that all of humanity
might be rising to a point where such capabilities become the norm, and you opened your book,
The Dragon's Tale, with the question, "Well, why would somebody who was interested in self-realization
even care about these things. And you went into a whole story about your stay with Prajnaparamita,
who I consider a friend. I interviewed her about nine years ago. She has an ashram in
France. She is a non-duality teacher. She doesn't teach the kind of things you talk about,
but she invited you there to talk to her students about this kind of thing. So, how would you
answer that question? How is all this stuff relevant to somebody whose primary motivation
is self-realization or enlightenment, couldn't this stuff be a distraction to them?
Well, isn't this funny because Prajnaparamita emailed me today.
I've been meaning to email her and say, "Hi, I'm going to have this interview," but I didn't
get around to it.
I never mentioned to her I was having this interview with you because I didn't know that
you knew her.
So, you see, these are the kinds of coincidences, synchronicities, that allow people to know
they're on the right track. If we listen to these and we act on them, it becomes confirming
for us. So, I think the reason that Prajnaparamita, who is a friend as well, wanted me to go to
her ashram to teach about the astral world is there's many ways through. And being a
non-duality teacher, as you said, her goal is to help people with self-realization or
enlightenment. And that is the path up, it's the direct path. But that path is not available
to all of us. That path can be the Galahad path, if you like, in the story of the quest
for the Holy Grail. I am a Percival person. I work with people in the dark night of the
soul. I work with people, I mean, I'm a psychotherapist by training, so I work with people who are
having spiritual breakthroughs, but they are not enlightened. They're starting to see things
or having intuitions or their life is falling apart in the third-dimensional reality, and
they're wanting assistance with this. So, I think that it's very important if we're still
living in this world, this third-dimensional reality, and we're not enlightened, that we
are grounded and that we are functioning. So, in order to do that, we need to be able to
work our way through these various realms and still stay grounded and functioning and know
how to make a Zoom call and pay our bills and drive our car. Otherwise, we have to, as Eckhart
Tolle did, sit on a park bench in Vancouver for seven years, waiting until he could function.
But there's no time for that now, Rick. We're going through this massive transformation,
Quantum Leap currently. So, we who are here are pioneers to bridge the two worlds, the
Piscean and the Aquarian. So, I'm not fully in the Aquarian. I'm a bridge. So, my talent,
if you like, is to help people find the linkages as they go up through these various realms.
Did that answer your question?
Pete: Sure, but I have more.
Jodie: Good!
Pete: So, the word enlightenment, I always have to qualify it if I use it or anyone uses
it, because it kind of implies an end point.
And I don't think there is an end point for anybody.
In fact, one of my favorite quotes is from St. Teresa of Avila, she said it appears that
the Lord himself is on the journey.
And so, if God is, then certainly Yogananda and Babaji and Prajnaparamita and you and
I and everybody else are moving along up some endless spiritual spectrum, if you will.
Dr. Anneke We are on the same page.
I believe God is evolving as well and that we are part, our evolution is part of his evolution.
And the more that we grow, the more he or she or it grows.
Pete Yeah, that's well put.
in fact, some would say, Vedanta would say, that there's nothing but God or Brahman. So,
if we are evolving, then in some respect, God must be evolving.
Susan: I am absolutely convinced of this same thing.
Rick: We could play around with the word "enlightenment" for a minute. You were
talking a minute ago about needing to remain grounded and integrated, regardless of how
cosmically aware you become. Ram Dass said something about remembering your social security
number when you're kind of exploring the cosmos or something like that. If I'm going to use the word,
the way I like to define it is a holistic development in which all the various faculties,
emotions, intellect, sensory refinement, and whatever other faculties we have are simultaneously
developed. Ken Wilber talks about lines of development, and he talks about how the
consciousness line can get way out of whack with some of the other lines. So, a person could seem
to have highly evolved consciousness and yet be emotionally stunted and perhaps behaviorally
abusive and so on. So, I kind of like that holistic, and if enlightenment is a holistic
development, then at some point, it's going to include the subtle sensory capabilities that you
talk about and write about?
Dr. Anne-Marie: Well, this for me, what you're describing, to evolve all aspects of ourself
simultaneously is what I think is the Percival path, and it's much more integrated. However,
who knows what our destiny is? Some people, as you mentioned, could be enlightened,
and I won't dispute that, but they may be emotionally very stunted.
Pete: In which case, I don't want to use the word enlightenment. Let's not do that word.
Susan: But let's just say that they have had a breakthrough in consciousness
where they actually know, I like that word know, they actually know, so it's not a theoretical idea
that this is an illusionary world. That they actually have a breakthrough in consciousness
of knowing and living and being that. Right now, I'm not enlightened. Prajnaparamita says there's
only the fittest fail between enlightenment and where I am, but that's very kind of her.
But I'm not enlightened. But this idea for me of progressing through the steps is quite important,
because this is just one incarnation we have. And even after we finish this incarnation,
I believe we have to go through astral incarnations and then causal incarnations.
And in the astral, we do need to work on our emotional state and make sure that we can
neutralize negative emotions and move towards positive ones. And then in our causal state,
we have to work on our thoughts that produce the positive or negative emotions that result in
positive or negative actions. So, if we do our work here, where we're working both emotionally
and mentally, then this hastens the amount of time we're going to stay in these astral or causal
states because we are working on all levels simultaneously.
Pete: Yeah, and wouldn't you agree that we may have many more human incarnations too,
in addition to spending time in these subtler realms?
Jodie: Oh, yes.
Pete: Because you made it sound like, okay, right after this life, we're going to the astral and
causal and we won't be coming back here again.
Well, it depends on our evolution, doesn't it?
And you know, as many people say, I don't know if you would subscribe, maybe, to the
idea that possibly before we even get to the point, Rick, where we're having a conversation
like this, we have had thousands of lifetimes worked up, you know, through our animal state.
is also things that Yogananda, I'm sure, talked about, many others, Mayor Baba, he had this
detailed long book about all the various stages of evolution one can go through before becoming
human. And actually, I have a question about that. If you consider the number of microbes
in a cubic centimeter of earth, there's probably thousands, if not millions of them. If those
are actually little beings that are going to evolve up the scale over a long, long period
of time, then it somehow seems that when you get to more evolved levels, there must be
either a conglomeration of souls, if those beings have souls, because there are fewer
of us than there are. I mean, there are probably, you know, 10,000 earthworms in my yard, but
there's only two humans in this house. So, how do you account for the math involved if
souls evolve up, and yet when we get to higher levels, there seem to be fewer of them?
Well, one thing that occurs to me is that we're group souls, that there are group souls at
lower levels of evolution.
Like a beehive as a group soul.
Yeah, we individualize.
I see.
So, at some point, there's more individualization that occurs, so that maybe at lower levels
of evolution, there are more groups evolving.
But then another part of me, because I'm kind of a both/and person rather than an either/or
But another part of me thinks, "Hmm, collective unconscious."
So, yes, you could say you and I are both individualized, but there are only so many patterns that humans
go through, really.
So many fears we have, so many vices we could have, so many positive emotions that we could
have.
patterns. So in the collective unconscious of all humanity, whether you're living in
Africa or in North America, you're still all human. So there's this collective. And
this collective to me is also a group soul. So that as we take responsibility
for affecting our own lives in the most positive way we can, we talked about
changing God and maybe God's evolving and maybe the whole collective unconscious of humanity
is evolving at the same time.
Pete Yeah, so what I hear you saying is that at
every level, there can be group souls.
I don't know, eagles have a kind of collective eagle consciousness or beehives, a collective
consciousness and so on.
And humans, although we are individual consciousnesses, we also are comprised of trillions of cells,
each of which have their own little consciousness.
So we, in a sense, are a collective.
And even the microbiome, which isn't even human,
there are more of those kinds of cells
than there are human cells in us.
So all in all, we're a collective.
And then you're taking it out to broader levels
to say that there's a collective Canadian soul
and a collective American soul and so on,
and a global soul.
- Yeah, I think that's true.
And I often talk about the archetypes
that each of our countries works with.
So, for example, you have the eagle, we have the beaver.
(laughs)
Almost every time. - Industrious.
- I know, industrious, hardworking, sticks in its own little pod
and makes a nice environment for others, but doesn't go very far away.
And I think there's something that in the Canadian personality
is very at home in this kind of small world.
If Canadians wanna become famous, Rick, they leave Canada.
Oh, I'm serious.
I'm serious.
- Like Joni Mitchell.
- Yeah, well, I could go on.
Neil Young and even Eckhart Tolle.
You know, we could go on
because we have something in our personality
which it's so compromising that we almost are more comfortable with mediocre.
And the positive side is that Canadians have a, I'm sure there are always exceptions, but
they have a reputation for being nice, polite, and not in your face like your typical New
Yorker.
That's right, because we often do not stand up for ourselves.
We compromise, and so that is a wonderful quality, but taken to its extreme, it isn't good.
So when I think of the most wonderful world archetype we could have, it would be putting
together sort of the American and the Canadian would mean, okay, we're assertive, but we
wouldn't step on others.
Pete: Yeah.
So, the reason we're saying all this and the reason this is relevant is that we're
saying that there is a collective consciousness to each area, each nation, which in itself
is like a being, and it has a personality, and it is perhaps influenced by all the individual
humans who make it up, but it's more than the collection, more than some of its parts.
And why are we born in one country than another? You know, often people look at the fact of
who is my mother, who is my father, and that this determines me.
But I think what determines us also is the country we choose to be born in, that this
affects our personality, and for good reason.
Spirit doesn't have any accidents.
It's got a plan that it has to mold us in a certain way.
Nate And you just made a point that my guest last
week also made, which is that we choose to be born to a particular set of parents in a
particular set of circumstances, which some people would, like, scratch their heads at,
"Why would I have chosen this?"
(Laughter)
>> Yeah, I always say you could call it a challenge or you could call it an opportunity.
>> Yeah.
Okay, good.
So let's keep going.
What we've covered so far is that there are all these higher realms, all these strata of
creation that most humans are not aware of, but there are beings in all these levels which
may or may not be aware of us. They could just be locked into their own strata, right? Their
own dimension and not interact with humans. Others might interact. Tell me if you agree
with that and let's elaborate on why this is significant, why it's important to understand
what practical or spiritual value does it have for us to consider it.
Yeah, that's a very interesting question and you've asked it a few times.
This idea of, as Jesus said, many mansions and that some of them are much higher frequencies
than ours, these various worlds, such as the dragon world, it's a much higher frequency
than our earth world.
So why would they want to interact with humans?
most of them would not. It might be more like, you know, a certain mission that one would
take on if you were a dragon, to come and want to work on lower, heavier frequencies
with the poor humans to help with their evolution. So, that would be my argument in that case.
The other is, my brother just died recently, and he was a born-again Christian and believed
very strongly in Jesus.
And I believe in Jesus, of course, myself.
Jesus the Christ.
He would not say "the Christ."
He would not believe there were other Christed beings.
He would just believe Jesus was the only one.
So I have no doubt my brother has gone to a heaven, an astral realm, which is a Christian
astral realm where he will be comfortable with others that have his particular mindset.
And when I die, I don't think that is the one I'm going to go to.
I'm going to go to a broader astral universe.
Now maybe I'm going to get visiting privileges with this other one.
It's possible.
But it all depends on our belief system and what we are thinking about.
For example, Tibetans in the Book of the Dead, they talk about what you're thinking about
when you die is the realm you go to.
And that's what I'm saying, because that's where our frequency is.
That's where our thoughts are.
So that's where we will normally just go to.
Yeah, I've heard other people say this too, like there's some kind of departure lounge
which is designed for you, you know, to fit with your preconceptions of what might happen
after you die.
So you'll be comfortable, you won't be shocked by the transition, find yourself hanging out
with a bunch of Hare Krishnas all of a sudden or something.
also say that after that initial transitional phase, then we graduate to a more universal
stage that many people, who's that guy who wrote Life Between Lives, you know that psychologist
guy?
- Thomas Fernie.
- No, anyway, it'll come to me. He was a hypnotist and he was hypnotizing people and I think at
some point he was doing past life hypnosis and stuff, and he began to find that people
were going to between lives. So, he began to specialize in that. Yeah, Michael Newton.
And so, he began to specialize in that, hypnotizing people to go to the between life phase, and
he did hundreds of them, and he found a remarkable consistency between what they all reported
and what they experienced, what the setup is, who you meet, and then how you prepare
for your next life. It's called "Life Between Lives" by Michael Newton.
I know another one by Thomas Verney actually.
Yeah, similar idea maybe.
Yeah, I think it all has to do with frequencies and that who we are here and what our main
resting frequency is, is where we're going to go.
Now there can be variety of all the different frequencies that are comfortable for us in
that in between time. But it's unlikely that if we're a murderer here, when we're between
lives, all of a sudden, we're going to be a saint.
Pete: Might have some stuff to work out.
Susan: Yes. So, I think it's more like that.
Pete: As we're having this discussion, and I've had many such discussions, both on
BatGap and in my life in general, I always think like, okay, how do we really know this?
acquired this belief. I haven't personally experienced any of this, maybe you have in
some third eye way, but somehow it just feels intuitively right to me. And maybe it's because
I've read so many books and talked to so many people, but there seems to be a rather common
agreement about what we're talking about here, at least within a certain type of person.
So, it's just interesting to consider, you know, how do we know what we know? Have we all just made
up a nice fantasy that makes us feel good, or are we all intuiting some kind of more
universal reality?
Dr. Debra Hixson Yeah, and when you first started doing this,
Rick, I mean, how many years now have you been doing Buddha at the Gas Pump?
Rick Well, I've been doing this for 15 years,
but I've been meditating since I was 18 and dwelling on such topics.
Dr. Debra Hixson Right.
So you have this well-developed inquiring mind and incredible curiosity, and you just interview
people from all different walks of life who are asking similar questions and coming up
with different pieces of information, and you're putting all these pieces together in like
this pie.
And this is wonderful to do that, and the more pieces you get to it, the more that substantiates
or reinforces your belief in the rightness of this.
But underneath it all, you have an intuitive sense of this being right.
So you've been going fact-finding for all these years, but underneath is your intuition.
I like something that Aldous Huxley said, he said that the greatest innovation of the scientific
revolution was the scientific method itself and the development of the idea of the working
hypothesis.
So to me, everything is a working hypothesis, you know, all the stuff that you say, all
the stuff that anybody says, I think, "Well, interesting hypothesis.
Now let's explore it.
What kind of evidence can we find for it?"
Oprah Winfrey once asked Eckhart Tolle, "What do you believe?"
he said, "Nothing in particular," because belief is kind of an irrelevant word.
We're talking about experiential verification of these things.
Susan: Yeah, and because I was born seeing and hearing what other people were thinking
or seeing these other things, I've had to come at it a different way.
I've had to come at it, because I kept all this secret for a long time.
I'm talking about decades and decades of keeping these things secret and functioning in the
real world as like a management consultant or a psychotherapist.
So I've come at it from looking for others and other facts to substantiate what is happening
to me.
Do other people see it?
And who are they?
And you know, how did they get there?
And that kind of thing.
Yeah, do you know that guy from Fyndhorn?
What's his name?
I've interviewed him.
It's not coming to me, but he's been seeing this stuff all of his life.
And of course, a lot of people have.
Yes, they have.
And it doesn't mean they've talked about it all their lives, because there can also be
so many traumas that we've carried from other lives about where we're killed for having
these particular things or practicing it or talking about it.
You were burned as a witch like 500 years ago, if you talk about this stuff.
Yeah, absolutely. And my mother, my mother actually, were Irish, and my mother had these
kinds of things. But I grew up in a hardware store, very practical, very concrete. And my mother never
talked about any of this. And yet I would witness like a customer coming in and she would say,
"Oh, you want a foil roasting pad?"
And the customer would say, "Well, how did you know?"
And I'd see my mother backtrack and say, "Oh, I was dusting them. I must have had it on my mind."
Interesting.
And she'd cover her tracks.
David Spangler, that's the guy I was just thinking of.
Laurian, the Laurian Foundation.
Right. Yeah. So it's kind of, coming back to your earlier point, we'll evolve as a society.
and you said 2000 years, hopefully a lot of it will be a lot sooner than 2000 years,
will evolve into society to the point where this kind of thing becomes the norm. And it's
interesting to consider how quickly norms can change. I mean, if you think of what things were
like in the 1850s, for instance, and what we understood to be possible compared with what we
now take for granted with our airplanes and cell phones and moon landings and all the other things,
Norms can change dramatically, and people just get accustomed to them.
Susan: Yeah. I think that truth evolves. If you think of what you believed when you were 20 and
what you believe now, and yet we're the same person, but our truth evolves as we become more
conscious. And I think this is why Jesus, for example, he spoke in parables, and that allowed
people at one level to hear one story and it worked for them. And for very wise people,
they heard quite a different story being told. So how can we do that? Be able to speak on many
levels so that it makes sense to, I think that's the trick, to be able to do that. So we stay in
the world, we're functioning, we can talk at so many levels that people can hear it in different ways.
Pete Yeah, that's good. There's an Indian saying
that when the mangoes get ripe, the branches bend down so people can easily pick them.
Kathy That's good. That's good. Yeah. Or I remember
the Dalai Lama, one of the things he said, he said, "If I had been not born the Dalai Lama," he said,
I would have been an engineer. I love tinkering with things. And he always liked to minimize
his gifts and his status to bring himself down more to everyday level to be able to talk to people.
What a gift.
Pete Yeah. Somebody asked him, well, what if science
should conclusively prove that this or that aspect of the Buddhist teaching is invalid? And he said,
then we should change the teaching. I'm kind of reminded of the 100th monkey story, although I
don't know if that's a true story, but how, you know, the monkeys started washing their coconuts
in a certain way and then monkeys on other islands started doing the same thing because the idea was
enlivened in the collective consciousness of monkeys. So, I'm thinking about, you know,
the kinds of things that you and I are talking about, and we're going to get into more details
in this conversation and about how if one person enlivens this, wakes up to it, it propagates
in collective consciousness and it increases the likelihood or ease with which other people
can begin to develop the same things. In fact, I think it was Darwin when he came out with his
theory on the evolution of species, somebody else actually came up with the same thing
almost at the same time, and somehow Darwin got the credit. But very often that'll happen,
that certain ideas will just pop up simultaneously or in close succession in various parts of the
world because they're ready to pop in collective consciousness.
- I agree, and I think everything that we say or do is recorded in the ethers. And some people think,
"Oh, I haven't done anything with my life. I haven't been very successful."
and you're living is a precious opportunity. It's a rare opportunity.
Every single thing in every life matters that you know everything is being
recorded and we cannot evaluate the success of our life based on this one
dimension right down here. We can't evaluate it. That's true and I would just
Just add that life, no matter what you're living, is a precious opportunity.
It's a rare opportunity, some would say, to get the chance to be human.
And we can always make great progress, even if we've screwed up a lot for quite a while.
I've interviewed people who were drug addicts and things, and then they had a turnaround,
and actually the experience they had as a drug addict enabled them to help people in
waves they wouldn't have been able to otherwise.
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, some people go, you know, resist, resist, resist, jump.
And other people go kind of step by step by step by step along and is there any right
way?
I don't think so.
Yeah.
Another thing I've heard is that, you know, I don't know whether people got this from
a near-death experience or how they remembered it, but in their life review, they were told
that some little act of kindness they had done 30 years ago or something was so significant
and it had such a ripple effect, and they were really kind of given a nice pat on the
back for that little thing that they had totally forgotten about. So, you never know.
Jill Yeah, we don't know. So, all we can do is
every day we do our best.
Rick Okay, good. So, let's get more into the meat
of what you write about and talk about and everything. The three books I've read, and
written several other books, what would you like to tackle first?
Susan: You know, Rick, I kind of have no preferences.
Rick: Okay, let's start with the elementals thing. So, in one of your books, "Hybrids,"
so you think you're human, you talk about how many humans, and maybe you can tell us
what percentage of humans, are actually a hybrid between human and one of these subtle
beings that we've been talking about, such as a leprechaun or a brownie or something
like that. And it doesn't mean that these subtle beings bred with humans. It's more like the
emerging of souls or something. What's the basic idea here?
Susan: Okay, so I'll go back a wee bit and talk about when I was a practicing psychotherapist,
so we're going back a good 30 years. And I had had my experience in Ireland where I had
gone to a haunted cottage in order to become enlightened, and it was haunted by a leprechaun
family. And this leprechaun, by the name of Lloyd, wanted me to write a book about that
ten years later, which became Summer with Leprechauns, ten years later.
Rick: Let me just interrupt you. So you got to this cottage. Did you see little leprechauns
with curled up shoes and whatnot? I mean, how did you know it was haunted by leprechauns?
Well, because I see things.
So they were pretty obvious to you?
Yeah, it was pretty obvious to me.
There was this male leprechaun, a female leprechaun, and two children leprechauns.
And I am in this cottage, you know, and I've rented it sight unseen on the far west coast of Ireland, on Ackle Island.
And I am there to become enlightened and to meditate.
So, obviously, my summer changed.
And this leprechaun, Lloyd, told me all about elementals and how important they were and
how they build everything in the earth, you know, everything.
Everything there is a plan and elementals build it.
So he said, "In 10 years, we want you to write this book about nature spirits and not
before because right now people are even having difficulty believing in angels."
So we've got to get people believing in angels before they're ready to believe in elementals.
So anyway, he's been in my life all this time.
What does he look like?
Was he green?
If you got a good artist to work for you, could he make a picture of him if you could describe
him?
To me, he looks similar to a human.
He's large for a leprechaun.
He comes up to about here on me.
Your shoulder.
Okay.
And I'm not that tall.
I'm only 5'2", so that gives you an idea.
So he's 4' something.
>> Yeah, and he's a bit chubby.
He is middle-aged.
Elementals live longer than we do, so he's actually over 100 years old, but he only looks
middle-aged.
And he wanted to work with me.
>> And so when you see him, when you saw him, or even you still do see him, is it like kind
of a ethereal form that you can see through, or does he look as solid as if there's a little
guy in a leprechaun suit?
So, it's as I said earlier, I can look through this eye or I can look through these eyes.
So if I'm looking through my third eye, and sometimes I can shut my eyes and do it, sometimes
I don't have to do it, and then I see and I hear.
We have more than two eyes, we have a clairvoyance, we have more than two ears, we have also clairaudience,
So we have more ears and we've got in our hearts another way of knowing if people are nice
or people are really not so great.
You know, we have another way of knowing it in our heart.
So these senses have always been quite open for me.
And I'm only saying that I see Lloyd in a human-like way.
Now in his realm, mostly when I go to the elemental realm, they all look semi-human, although
they all have idiosyncrasies.
So I became well aware of all these different elementals, and we could talk about maybe
ten different kinds of elementals, brownies and pixies and goblins and trolls and elves,
how each one of these kinds of elementals has a particular function in the elemental world.
Pete: Do they all cohabit the same realm?
Susanne: Yeah.
Pete: And mingle with each other? Or, so they don't each have their own little realm?
Susanne: No. They cohabit in their elemental world, they cohabit.
Pete: Okay.
Susanne: But they are more like in various castes. So, a leprechaun would know what a
a leprechaun was going to do and would marry a leprechaun kind of thing.
So they've all got their own unique functions.
So I became aware of this and wrote a couple of books on it.
Meanwhile, I'm a psychotherapist.
Now people started to come to me and I realized, "Oh my, these people are not fully human.
They have partial elemental ancestry.
And I started to notice unique kinds of qualities that they would have as elementals.
And I didn't have a card saying specializing in elemental psychotherapy, but when I started
working with them and broached this topic, this was of interest to them. So, what happened
was, after a while, I started to notice that I was attracting in my workshops, just in my
life, because I do a lot of different teaching in different places, that I was attracting
people who had various hybrid ancestry. So, I started teaching a workshop called "Hybrids
So You Think You're Human."
Rick: And so, you knew this or suspected it because...
Susan: I knew it.
Rick: ...you were so familiar with these elementals and what their characteristics, and you saw
that various people embodied those characteristics.
>> Yeah, absolutely. And as I said to you earlier, I see things and I know things, and then I
look for proof.
>> Right.
>> So then some people who were studying with me said, "You've got to write a book about
this." So I said, "Okay." So then I started looking for myths around the world that talked
about dragons, for example, or myths around the world that talked about dolphins being
people of the sea and the consciousness they had, or myths around the world talking about
mermaids and merpeople.
And these cultures had nothing to do with each other.
Pete: Yeah, no way of communicating with each other.
Susan: No.
They had evolved by themselves about these particular stories.
So, that was for me gathering proof to support that there really were different evolutions
evolving on the Earth, interacting with humanity, and interbreeding with humanity. And now, don't
ask me, Rick, how that happens, right? Rick:
I was just going to ask, was there actual sexual intercourse or was it some kind of soul merging?
Susan: No, no, no. Soul, soul. As I understand it, on higher levels, if you're a dragon hybrid,
for example, and you're wanting to come onto the earth to help humanity, then you approach
the beings who oversee the evolution of humanity, you approach the beings who oversee the evolution
of dragons, and you see if this is a fit. And then you get the appropriate soul and physical
characteristics that would help you. This has almost been 30 years that I have seen and
worked with that, but I only wrote the book, I think, in 2015, after I had checked it,
rechecked it, and rechecked it as many ways that I could, because I believe if we put out
false information into the world, into the ethers, that we are creating a karmic mistake,
a really bad error. And being a cautious Canadian, I usually sit on things for decades before
I put them out. And then about the same time that this happened is when I read what Sri
Yuktesvar had said to Yogananda that there are myriads of fairies, mermaids, fish, animals,
goblins, gnomes, demigods, and spirits all residing in different astral planets in accordance
with karmic qualifications and that he's working with this.
And as soon as I read this, and this is after I have been working for 30 years with this
stuff. After I read that, I said, "Oh my God, Sri Yukteswar has actually been overseeing
my work with Alimentos all this time. You know, somebody's overseeing it. And also now,
here I am going to be working with all these other ones, the Mer people and the dragons."
>> Yeah.
>> So, it really has been this evolution in my whole life that things come to me for proof
at different times.
>> And in the Vedic scriptures, which Sri Yukteswar certainly read, there are many passages
where they'll give you a whole paragraph listing all kinds of beings with Sanskrit names, but
they're not human beings.
You know, there's the Kinnaras and the Gundarvas and the this and the that, dozens of them.
So that culture is very familiar with the kind of thing you're telling us here.
>> Yeah, and a lot of those would be demigods.
Like you, I've been a meditator since I was about 21 years old, and it came from a near-death
experience where I was actually offered a choice, hanging by my neck from a rope toe
when I was skiing.
Yeah, I was hanging and no one shut off
the power. Yikes. And how they say all time
stops, it did. I had no fear, absolutely
none, and I saw two options. I saw I could
go, I could leave, but I saw if I went that
path, my parents would be devastated. And
And then I saw this other path and it said very clearly,
you'll have to put in time till you're 28 years old
because you won't be able to start your real work till then.
And then I was given the choice, stay or go, and I stayed.
And when I was about 28, I started taking people
and doing past life regressions.
And that's how I met Dr. Tom Verney,
who also wrote a book, Life Before Life, he sent people to me to regress them. So that's
how my spiritual work started, was by doing past life regressions.
Okay, interesting.
I think you are.
That sounds good.
I think you are.
Okay.
I think you are, it's Darby.
So another question then about hybrids. So let's say I was a hybrid, I have no idea,
probably I'm not.
Well, you probably are.
Well, maybe I am, but...
You probably are.
And you actually have a thing in your book about how to determine which one you might
be.
Yeah.
But when I read it, none of them really rang a bell, but who knows.
But let's say I am one.
Let's say you are a star being.
Okay.
Let's say you are.
That sounds good.
I think you are.
Okay.
I think you are a star being.
I don't think you're an elemental.
Alrighty.
Star beings, and I divided hybrid so you think you're human into three sections.
So there's the Earth ones, the human cousins, and then there's the star beings.
So the star beings, they can be angels, they can be elves.
Pete: Now, you're not saying E-L-F, you're saying E-L's.
Susan: E-L's, yes.
Pete: Okay, which I had never heard of.
At first I thought you were saying elf.
Susan: No, they're elves, and they came originally from Sirius.
I am an elf.
I am actually an elf, okay?
I remember and I don't just remember, I've actually left my body and gone to Sirius.
I mean left it, it's not breathing, left it, gone to Sirius.
And I'm an El.
I'll tell you some other ones, people who are Elves.
I didn't write it in the book because I could have gotten sued.
But the Dalai Lama is an El.
No, Mother Teresa, an El.
I just forgot his name. The black man in South Africa, Nelson Mandela, Nelson Mandela, an
L. And L's are the same ones that they talk about in the Bible. If you read the Old Testament,
they talk about the L's.
Pete: By that name or some other name?
Susan: Yeah, as L's. E-L-S.
Pete: Okay. Probably darned.
Susan: Yeah, at the beginning. And the L's, think about my name. My name is my, I haven't
changed it. Hell, eh, well. - You've got a lot of L's in your name. - I've got a lot of L's in my name.
And the L's help elementals. They are helpers of elementals. But L's are creators of form
on the planet. They're very mental, and they also are warriors. They go in there and they're
warriors. You know, there's warriors of power and there's warriors of love. I think I'm a warrior
of love, but I'm a warrior. Pete: Sure. And you know, when you consider the challenges that the
Dalai Lama and Mother Teresa and Nelson Mandela, who spent decades in prison, all faced, it wasn't
just an easy ride, but they brought about huge changes nonetheless.
>> Absolutely. And angels, my partner is an angel, and angels imbue form with essence.
So it's very nice I have an angel to help me.
>> Not too many women can say their husband's an angel.
>> Or would say it.
[Laughter]
No, that's so funny. I guess I'm just fortunate.
Yeah.
So, I'm not trying to make you into an elf.
I'm not trying to make you into an angel.
I don't know how we got into it, but
star beings could be dragons,
they could be mer-people, mermaids, mermen,
and they can be the pan-hybrid,
like literally the pan-hybrid.
hybrid. You know, a lot of my students are all these various kinds of hybrids, by the
way. So, these are all star beings. Now, when star beings come down onto the Earth, they
can enter other evolutions.
>> So, by star beings, you mean their place of origin is some other solar system someplace?
>> Exactly.
>> Yeah, okay.
So, Draconis is the star for the dragons, for example. Copernicus is the star for the panhybrids.
There's the Horus hybrid also that I talk about as being the Christ of the Egyptians, the bird,
the bird.
Pete: With the bird head.
the bird head, yes. So these are star beings. I just think you're a star being, and I don't
want to make any assumptions or do anything on air that's very uncomfortable, and I would
never do that.
Well, it's okay, I don't mind being called a star being.
Yeah, and if you think of your work, one of the commonalities about star beings is that
They're very forward-looking, they're always trying to bring new advances into the world
in some way, so they're pioneers, and they have this sense of wanting to create something
good.
There's really this impulse to help humanity and to help the Earth.
Help the Earth is almost as important as helping humanity for star beings.
Are any of those qualities yours, would you say, Rick?
Pretty much all of them, yeah.
Have been most of my life.
Didn't start out that way, but once I kind of got my head together a little bit, you know,
and got on a spiritual path, that was my incentive.
Yeah.
And yet, when they come down, they could end up entering merpeople evolution or dolphin
evolution or something else.
Okay, so my understanding is getting a little clearer now as you speak.
I even forget that you're having an audience.
Yeah, there's one, there's 108 people on at the moment.
Oh, that's very nice.
I hope they're enjoying our chat.
I hope so, and they can send in questions if they want.
So if I'm a star being, let's say, I'm not saying I am, but if I am, then what that means
is it's not that some star being soul merged with the human soul that has been going through
numerous incarnations, it's that a star being, let's say he decided, okay, I want to come to
Earth, and he either came with me into my physical body for his first incarnation on Earth, or he
might have gone through 100 incarnations on Earth, one body after another, but he was a soul, he,
she, could have been she in many lifetimes, is a soul that hasn't been on Earth since its formation
necessarily, but that kind of is a relative newcomer from some star system.
>> It depends.
I remember being here when the Earth was a gas.
It was a gas.
>> Four billion years ago or something.
>> Yeah, and I remember with my mind bringing form together.
It was a gas and I was mentally bringing form together.
>> Helping to congeal it into...
>> Yes, and of course, this body, this of course was not the body.
It was just the thought.
So what I'm saying is, everybody would have a different time when they thought that they
entered.
>> Yes.
>> If they were a star being.
>> So it could be billions of years ago, it could be like this lifetime is the first one.
>> Yeah.
a different reason. There are very evolved beings coming in right now who have not had
to go through these myriad of incarnations and they're coming in right now. So, how wonderful.
Pete: Yeah. What you just said reminded me of something which we alluded to earlier,
and that is that I get the impression from this conversation and from various people
talked to and books I've read, that all these elementals are instrumental in the orchestration
of pretty much everything in the universe and on our planet, which would include the formation of
the planet, or the formation of the sun for that matter, and plant life and animal life and all
kinds of things. It's not just dumb matter. Everything is orchestrated by divine intelligence,
but divine intelligence has its specific impulses or agents or helpers or whatever that are really
nothing other than divine intelligence essentially, but that play specific roles.
Susan: Yeah, yeah. And I focus on elementals on the Earth and the Earth evolution and that
kind of thing, so I can't speak to the elemental forces in other solar systems or universes.
I can't speak to that.
Pete: But undoubtedly, they're there, I would say.
And these days with our Webb telescope and also the Kepler telescope, I think it is,
that, you know, we now realize that there are planets orbiting virtually every star.
So, there are more stars than there are grains of sand on all the beaches in the world, and
therefore, there are probably, you know, about more planets than that even, and if even 1%
of them are inhabited by intelligent life, there are trillions of intelligent planets
out there.
Jill: Yeah, incredible, and how little we see and how little we know.
And yet, we each of us, don't we, have to focus on the job we've been given.
That's all that each of us can do is focus on the job we've been given.
What's that saying?
"Think globally, act locally."
Yeah.
Okay, so you have alluded to, you know, how we're entering into a really interesting phase
possibly for the next 2,000 years.
I have a good friend.
He's kind of well-known on the internet.
I won't mention him, but he became very depressed after the last election, and I haven't had
a chance to talk to him since he told me that, but I think I'm going to encourage him to
broaden his focus because there really is a kind of a divine orchestration of things
and things appearing to get darker could actually mean the dawn is getting closer, you know,
that saying.
It's always darkest before the dawn.
So with all the investigation you've done and the beings you've communicated with and all
that, do you have any sense of what's coming and what the possible timeline might be?
Are we talking about some significant changes within our lifetime or we're talking about,
you know, it's gonna be a thousand years from now before things really get a lot nicer or
what?
interesting talking about this because I had a strong feeling that this was the most important
thing that we would share today. Not about my books, I mean, that's all very nice that
you want to talk about my books, but about this time we're going through because people
are struggling so much. And what I see is that there is massive swings in frequency
going on. And it used to be that our frequency on the earth was relatively stable with humans
being able to agree that these are the ideas and the morals and the ethics that we ascribe
to and having some sort of peace, although there was always little hot spots, but some
sort of peace. And in these last years, and not just this last election, it's just when
it's kind of come into visibility more maybe, but in these last years, we're seeing increased
frequency things moving like this. So there will be the best of times and oh yes, we're
going to go into the Aquarian Age and the worst of times, oh no, this is the Armageddon that
we've all heard about.
Pete: Charles Dickens, A Tale of Two Cities.
[Laughter]
Kirsten: That's right. So, I'm seeing these massive swings and this-
Pete: Polarities.
Kirsten: Yes, these polarities. Both exist simultaneously. So, it is not a neither or,
it's a both and. And I believe there are incredible cosmic energies coming in right now.
Pete: From where? Subtle realms or whatever?
- Yeah, the divine, let's just say universal intelligence.
I call it that as well as you do.
Universal intelligence, the creator of our universe,
if you want to call it our universe,
'cause I think there's many universes.
So the creator of our universe is massive,
that this is the timing.
This is the timing where our entire solar system,
not just the earth, is going through a rise in frequency.
a quantum leap. But in order for that to happen, because each of us, as you alluded to it before,
Rick, each of us is a cell in the body of the whole. So we've got all these cells in each of
our bodies, but each of us is a cell in the body of the Earth. So whatever is happening to the Earth
is happening to us individually. There's no separation from the cosmos to the solar system,
to the Earth to us. It's all happening simultaneously, this quantum leap. However, and this is the
problem that's going on, is because we are now moving to a higher frequency, which is
this astral frequency, where we are going to be able to be clairvoyant, clairaudient,
clairsentient, and to become conscious creators on this planet and guardians of this planet.
That is our destiny in this 2000 years, conscious creators and guardians of this planet.
We have to, first of all, get through what's called the hell realm.
We have to get through the bardo.
We have to get through this lower astral frequencies of everything that humanity has created that
is not in alignment with higher consciousness.
this stuff has to somehow be flushed out of the bushes and exposed and thereby somehow
neutralized.
Jillian: And transmuted.
Pete: Transmuted, right.
Jillian: Yeah, and that means that each of our, you know, yours, mine, everybody's, each
of our unique thought forms which are out of alignment, our thoughts, our feelings are
going to be triggered, because each of us has a responsibility to do this ourselves, and
to move this ourselves.
No one can do it for us.
We can't wait for God to do it.
We have the responsibility to do it ourselves.
So everything in us is being triggered, and so sometimes we're feeling, "Whoa, I'm
doing all right, you know?
I'm feeling--I'm meditating today.
thinking positive thoughts and other days we're thinking,
oh God, you know, look what's just happened in the world
and how many wars do we have going on simultaneously
and get me out of here.
We have to deal with both of this.
And our job is to stay in non-attachment
and in a neutral place with positivity and optimism
so that we confronted in ourselves, that's our job,
and do our job, and then try to stay the course
as we go through this.
I think we're having the dissolution of our old structures,
I think you must agree with me.
It's the complete disintegration of our old structures.
So we're gonna see, I believe, massive collapse happening
financially, environmentally, all over the world, at the same time as on a higher frequency,
there are programs like yours happening.
There are books like mine coming into the world.
There are more and more of us becoming conscious and raising the frequency.
So these things are existing simultaneously in the ethers.
Does this make sense to you?
Oh, it makes sense, yeah.
I want to explore it more with you.
I've sometimes said, you know, a rising tide lifts all boats, but if some of the boats
insist upon remaining anchored, they're going to capsize because the water's going to rise,
but the boats won't be able to.
I've got shivers when you say that.
That's a wonderful metaphor.
Yeah, so it behooves people to raise anchor and rise with the tide, but a lot of people
seem rather determined not to do that. And so, when you say all kinds of things are going to collapse,
economies and whatnot, you know, some people are a little bit apocalyptic in their predictions that
there could be a lot of people dying and a lot of misery. And I've often thought that the spiritual
teachers who've been coming to the world, like Yogananda and some of his people who came after
him foresaw this kind of change coming and wanted to just do as much as they could to
make it a smoother transition than it otherwise would be.
>> Yeah, I think so too, and all we can do, you know, us little people, is to plant seeds.
That's what I think. All we're doing here is, with your work, with mine, with so many wonderful
people that you have the privilege of speaking to. We can plant seeds and some of these seeds will
grow in others. It may grow immediately and it may grow in three decades when the pain gets so great.
I often think that unless the pain gets big enough, great enough, we will not change.
Yeah, I mean they say with alcoholics they often have to hit bottom before they're willing to
get help. It's a shame that it has to be that way because, you know, there's a lot of suffering
involved in an alcoholic hitting bottom and there would be a lot of suffering involved in the world
hitting bottom in terms of everything having to collapse and all that, but when you think about
how crazy and how harmful so many of our industries and environmental practices and other things are,
and yet how powerful they seem to be, how much money is behind them, you think, well, they're
not gonna give up voluntarily, so what's gonna bring them down if we're going to transition to
a world in which such ways of doing things are no longer possible.
>> That's right. I think we have to take to the streets. There will be a massive global
uprising of the collective, of people collectively.
>> And that doesn't necessarily mean, to my mind, massive global rioting and protesting and,
you know, that kind of thing. Uprising could mean people who are really driving the change.
are out of sight, out of mind. They're kind of shifting their consciousness in rather secluded
ways and yet all the big changes are bubbling up on the surface as they do so. This can be
happening and if we just were refusing to buy into the collapsing system, right? Like a refusal. I'm
thinking of Peter Finch in that movie where he says, "I'm mad as hell and I'm just not going to
take it anymore.
Right.
Network, I think it was called.
Yeah, it was network.
Or Gandhi just saying we're marching to the sea.
Yeah.
It's a collective movement of consciousness of people.
It's like, think about recycling.
The mass of human, ordinary people who force governments to get into recycling.
Yeah.
Unfortunately, a lot of governments ship all the garbage to Africa, who get paid to take
it and they just dump it and it flows into the ocean.
Yeah, well, these ways of seeing it, it's sort of like half bad, half good.
We're still not thinking far enough ahead.
We are only dealing with this.
We're not making decisions based on, as First Nations people have always said, seven generations.
Yeah, and this is going to shift as well.
When I worked in organizations, as well as doing all of my cuckoo stuff, I worked for
our IBM, I worked for Forrest Companies, I was a faculty member for the Banff Center for
Leadership for 22 years, I worked for banks.
I was an infiltrator and I call us "Cancers for Good."
We go into, and there are people who, bless their hearts, are within those organizations,
staying there and working from within.
I'm not capable of that.
I could only be a consultant to go in.
But our frequency changes things, Rick.
We change things.
I become aware, it's not my words, it's my frequency.
People get anywhere near me and they start going through changes.
And I bet it's the same with you.
They get near you and they start going through changes.
It's our frequency.
People think, "Oh, well, I have to do something radical, like lead a protest movement or something."
They only have to change themselves.
Yeah, who was it, Gandhi who said, "Be the change you want to see in the world"?
That's right.
Because everybody has a certain frequency and when we are optimistic and we keep to positive
thoughts of love and compassion and forgiveness and tolerance and good humor and all these
wonderful qualities, our frequency rises.
And it doesn't mean we're a Pollyanna, that we are totally unable to see what is going
on in this other part.
Pete: Yeah.
Now, we started this discussion by talking about all the inhabitants of the astral and
higher realms, and we touched upon the point that some of them might be concerned with
human affairs and some not, but in the last few minutes we've just been talking as though
it were humans alone who are affecting the kinds of changes that we expect to see coming.
But to what extent do you think that the involvement of these subtler beings is a catalyst for
these changes?
Susan: Well, the book I wrote, The Dragon's Tale, which only came out this year, is about
how dragons are returning to the earth, especially a great cosmic dragon, in order to help birth
the earth into consciousness and how these energies, the dragons, are beings of all four
elements, earth, air, fire, and water. They're an integrated being and they're using their
kundalini energy, their fire, in order to catalyze us individually and also collectively.
I find this very optimistic, and as they said, they've been here before, it's just that we
didn't want to hear about them before, we were busy wanting to kill them,
St. George and the Dragon.
Pete Right.
Kirsten Christianity wanted to do away with any of those stories.
So, I'm very optimistic about the wonderful beings who are here right now helping us.
Pete Yeah, so the dragons are kind of like what
you were, they're consultants.
They get called in when there's a need in a particular place.
You make it sound like if there's some great dragon, and we might want to elaborate on what
dragons actually are, that has come to help facilitate the changes that the earth is undergoing,
he might be like a traveling doctor who has gone to various other planets when they're
ready for his help.
>> Yes, well, that's what the dragons were telling me when I went to the dragon world,
that that is exactly what their function is, is to help with the birth into consciousness
and into higher consciousness of races and solar systems even.
>> Yeah.
So, you said it was Babaji who encouraged you to write a book about dragons, and I think
you might have said that Babaji himself was a dragon, but not in a dragon form necessarily,
appearing in a human form. Maybe you could elaborate on that. And since we're mentioning
dragons with the assumption that people know what we're talking about, I think we do need
to elaborate a bit because everybody has their idea of what dragons are and that might be
a bit of a stretch if we don't explain it in greater detail.
Okay, for those folks who may have just come on, we were speaking about 22 different races
of beings who have been involved with the evolution of the earth.
And one of these races is the dragon race.
And that dragons, if we're talking about elementals, which are gnomes and goblins and whatever being,
here's the earth in frequency.
Here's the elemental world, just a little higher.
the race of the mer people, mermaids and mermen. They're in a higher astral consciousness.
And if you go up here to a very high astral consciousness, really a causal world of thought,
going right into this borderline causal world of thought, you have the dragon frequency,
the dragon world. So, all these myriad worlds exist in different frequencies, and the dragons
and their dragon world, when I write the dragon's tale, I have it divided into two parts. The
first part is a dragon coming to the earth to talk about their evolution of the earth
and Humanity and then the second part is me going to the Dragon World to see what it's
like to be there. Now, as you said, it was Mahavatar Babaji who asked me to write this
book. And he is on the same lineage as Paramahansa Yogananda and Sri Yukteswar. So it's Christ,
Krishna, Mahavatar Babaji, Lahiri Messiah, Sri Yukteswar and Paramahansa Yogananda.
It is the same lineage.
So Mahavatar Babaji, I had never spoken to him before, Rick, and he is the deathless
youth of the Himalayas that works with high initiates.
And I had meditated.
It's the lineage I meditate with.
I had meditated and he had tapped me on the head many, many times, but no communication.
And on this particular occasion, all of a sudden I was grabbed by him and taken into a higher
frequency where I could look down on the earth.
And he said, "You've written enough about elementals.
What about dragons?"
And I saw the dragon world and I saw the world of the merpeople.
And I knew I had to write about these.
And it wasn't my first experience of dragons.
I've had experiences for 30 years with dragons, but not going to the dragon world and having
a responsibility to write about them.
So that's what happened.
And I put it off for a year.
And then, as we were speaking earlier, I went to Prajnaparamita's ashram over in France
to teach.
She invited me to go and teach about astral worlds.
And I no sooner got there the very first night than she said, "Tatis," and she didn't
know anything about this dragon stuff that I'm telling you about, right?
She didn't know I'd been told to write this book about dragons or any of this.
And she said, "Tanis, a dragon has come and landed in our forest and I've been keeping
everybody else away, but I think you have to go and talk to it."
And it was the dragon from the dragon world who had wanted to speak with me and was getting
impatient with me going there.
How did she know it was there?
Because they had been doing some fire ceremonies with pandits from India.
And these pandits had come and one of their people had said that the black dragon had
landed in their forest.
Okay.
Yeah, interesting, eh?
Yeah.
And these dragons, they actually look like the kinds of dragons that are depicted in
the folklore, right?
I mean, they have wings and they breathe fire sometimes, and they have scales and big teeth
and the whole deal.
They do.
They have the whole deal.
But that's the way I see them, okay?
Because we all see things through our own filter, Rick.
So that's what I want to make clear to people.
I see things through my own filters, and I'm not going to negate somebody else's way of
seeing.
Yeah, that's interesting.
Could it be that our cultural conditioning has created filters, which causes someone like
you to see these things in a certain way that are actually quite unlike the way they would
see themselves.
They're very different, you know, than they might actually appear to other dragons or to
other beings.
There are stories like this in science fiction and all where someone appears like a human
but they're really some kind of totally different being and a human guise, like that one with
the old people in Cocoon, you know, remember that movie?
Oh, yes.
Pete Yeah, where there are these light beings,
but they were in human bodies and so on.
Could it be like that?
Susan It could be.
Like when I see Christ, for example, I see Christ as a sparkling light, a tremendously
sparkling light, like remember those sparklers you get?
Pete Right.
Susan All these masses, masses.
Yeah.
So, that is the way I don't see Christ on the cross or Jesus on the cross or in the manger.
I see that.
So, I think we see also depending on in which dimension we're looking at the time.
Pete Okay, good.
So you said this topic of the changes that the world will be undergoing might be one
of our main purposes in this conversation.
What more can we say about that?
Well, getting back to your friend and how you're going to see if you can have a conversation.
Yeah, yeah.
Just to put it in terms of both/and, I find that that is extremely helpful for people
that they don't get into either or,
because that's the duality
of the old illusionary world we're leaving,
is the either or.
And the both and encompasses it both,
and encompasses it on many different dimensions,
what reality is.
And as you said earlier,
and boy, that was wonderful,
what you said about basically
the universal intelligence knows what it's doing.
Pete Yeah.
Jodi And yes, like how can we down here think that
we know better what the universal intelligence is doing?
Pete There's a saying in Vedic literature that
Brahman is the eater of everything and Brahman is the totality, right?
It's like there's nothing outside of Brahman, everything is contained within it.
And by that phrase, I think they mean that all the various diversities and polarities
and paradoxes and forces and whatnot, they're all harmoniously contained within this totality.
And of course, most people don't own the totality, they're kind of fragmented, they're off on
one or another spoke on the wheel.
So to them, there's so many things that seem to be in conflict with their particular orientation.
But if one could really become the totality, then you subsume everything, you contain everything,
and you're able to harmonize differences within your awareness.
Susan D'Elia Yeah, so just having faith in the process,
I think, and to have faith that we're at the right place at the right time, we're the right
gender, we're the right age, we're in the right country, there's not an accident, and
that our life has meaning and to fully embrace what we've been given, whatever opportunities
there are, whatever challenges there are, that we embrace them.
- Yeah, yeah.
Good point.
Right place, right time.
It's not like accidental that we're in the situation we're in.
- Yeah, and I think people alive right now are pioneers in creating this bridge to the
new way.
We've got the right faculties to be able to do it.
Another thing that came to mind was that we have to get over our fear of death, this feeling
that death is terrible as opposed to that we're eternally alive, it's just a change of state.
That may make sense to people theoretically, but we have our knowledge that, you know, the
death of the physical body is a relatively minor matter.
- The end, they are related to death.
- What I found helpful in culturing that perspective
is long before I started BatGap,
reading near-death experience books.
You know, you read a bunch of those
and I've interviewed so many people now
who've had near-death experiences.
You just, after a while, it becomes kind of an ingrained
assumption or knowledge that, you know,
the death of the physical body is a relatively minor matter
in the big scheme of your life and your evolution.
- Yeah, very much so.
And if people could even separate out the two things,
one being death, where some people will say,
"Well, actually I'm okay if I just wake up,
"I just die one second and I'm awake the next."
But also this idea of pain
and that it's maybe not going to be that pleasant.
And here we have to have faith that once again, the kind of death that we experience, we're
up for.
I think we're set up to succeed in what our life purpose is, not to fail.
I think each person is being given exactly the opportunities to succeed.
Pete: Yeah.
Regarding pain, Woody Allen said, "I don't mind dying, I just don't want to be there
when it happens."
[Laughter]
Judy: Yes.
Yes.
Have you ever heard the story of the old Chinese farmer?
No.
I'll tell it really quick.
It pertains to what we've been talking about, about trusting in the flow of things and not
being too attached to particular outcomes.
So there was an old Chinese farmer and he barely got by.
He had one horse and he had his son and a small farm.
And one day the horse escaped and the neighbors came and said, "Oh my God, what are you going
to do?
You can't operate the farm without your horse."
And the farmer said, "Well, we'll see."
So then the next day, the horse came back and a bunch of wild horses followed it into the
corral and they closed the gate and the neighbors came and said, "Oh, you're a wealthy man now,
you have all these horses, and it's so great."
And the farmer said, "Well, we'll see."
So the next day, his son was riding one of the wild horses trying to tame it and train
it, and he fell off and broke his leg.
And the neighbors came and said, "Oh, your son broke his leg, what are you gonna do now?
You can't run the farm without your son."
And the farmer said, "Well, we'll see."
And the next day, the army came through and they were conscripting all the young men to
join and go off to battle.
And you know, there you go.
I mean, he couldn't go because he had a broken leg.
Yeah, what a great, great story.
And if we just stay in this neutral, I call it the neutral positive.
You know, we're neutral, we're not attached, but we've got hope.
Right?
If we stay in that place, that, you know, it's going to get us through.
Yeah, and recognize that there's some kind of divine orchestration calling the shots.
Yeah.
And that the Holy Spirit is inside us, as I write in that other book, Good Morning, Henry.
The Holy Spirit is our body intelligence.
It is in here and it is awakening.
It's awakening every cell in our body.
That's happening.
A couple of questions came in.
This one is from Matthew McCartan in Uxbridge, Ontario.
He says, "Could you say something about the importance of the relationship of the birth
of the higher self and the simultaneous birth of intuitive gifts?
I have learned that this is critical to perceive the hidden creative dimensions of reality
and the only way past our common problems."
Intuition is a high spiritual gift.
And just as you, Rick, spoke earlier about gradations of evolution and that God is evolving,
I believe it's the same with our intuition, that we become more and more and more and
more intuitive.
After a certain point, it's a kind of knowing that happens, and knowing is quicker than any
kind of mental process of going back and forth looking for reasons or concrete evidence or
anything.
It's just a knowing.
>> Rick Okay, good.
The next question is also from Matthew McCartan in Uxbridge, Ontario.
He says, "Could you also comment on the importance of Rudolf Steiner?
I feel Rick's show has not connected with the importance of this spiritual teacher, too
often associated with theosophy, but only in error."
>> Well, interesting he mentions this because in one of my books, "Summer with the Leprechauns,"
which was one of my earlier books, the elementals, Lloyd, talks about meeting Rudolf Steiner,
who was the founder of Anthroposophy.
Now many, many, many Anthroposophists come and study with me.
And I find this quite interesting that there is this fractal in my life.
You know how if you look at the fractals in your life, you say, "Oh, this is really quite
interesting."
Well, I have a fractal which I attract anthroposophists from all different countries, and I am not
an anthroposophist.
I believe he was a medium.
He was a mystic.
He brought so many pioneer forms into the world.
He brought biodynamic gardening, which is more organic than organic.
He brought the Waldorf systems of education.
He brought doctors, a certain kind of healing.
He brought a kind of movement, urithymy.
He was to plant seeds in many different disciplines around higher ways of looking at things.
So he only lived to his mid-60s.
I think he did a marvelous job.
Yeah.
Sounds like he must have been an L hybrid or something.
I think he might have been, actually.
So there's a lot of things in your books, and I heard many points as I was listening
to your books.
"Oh, it'd be fun to talk about that." But I didn't take notes, because I figured we'd
just go with whatever came up. Is there anything that you'd really like to talk about that
you feel that we haven't touched upon?
Susan No, I think that the point I just made recently,
just a minute ago, about Good Morning Henry, and speaking with our own body intelligence,
that this is actually the Holy Spirit. And Eckhart Tolle said it, I believe it too, and
he's talking about consciousness. The way through is not to go beyond the body, it's to go through
the body. And we've been talking about this. There's three aspects to the Holy Trinity.
There's the Holy Spirit, which is the Divine Mother, Sophia, which is consciousness in
form.
That is consciousness in form.
It's the active intelligence of the Creator.
There's God the Father, which is on scene, unknown, omniscient.
And there's God the Son, Christ Jesus, love.
So the first one that most of us is going to encounter, the first one that most of us
encounter, and the most accessible for us is the Holy Spirit. We can call that our conscience,
we can call it our higher self, we can call it our deep knowing, it's the Spirit giving
us our feeling of rightness, our moral compass. Do you have anything to say about that, Rick?
Rick Well, what came to mind as you said that is
that for a number of years I've had a great concern about the moral fiber of spiritual
teachers because there have been so many instances in which spiritual teachers have behaved immorally
and have harmed their students. And it has puzzled me because you figure that, I mean,
you associate saintliness with enlightenment or higher consciousness, but there are so
many well-known spiritual teachers who've behaved like naughty high school boys in their
behavior, not world teachers. And so I actually helped to found an organization called the
Association for Spiritual Integrity, and we now have over 700 members and over 50-something
organizational members, and we've given presentations at Harvard Divinity School and
the Parliament of World Religions and things like that. I just feel like greater appreciation
of ethics is sorely needed in the contemporary spiritual world because as we've been speaking
about, you know, the beautiful changes that humanity might undergo. If spirituality is
the most fundamental engine behind those changes, then teachers who behave egregiously with
their students are sabotaging the whole enterprise. And it has implications far beyond the harm
that they're doing to themselves and their students.
Yeah. I think that's wonderful what you're talking about. And I didn't know you had
I formed this organization and I'll send you a link to it. I'd like to join it good
Yeah, you should put a little note right out here in your little chat box
So other people can know about it because I think that's very important and as I said earlier
Sometimes I sit on ideas for decades before I release them into the world
because
It's not just what I do with my sexuality, which is important
although people can look at my sexuality and not find that I'm sleeping with any of my students,
which is good, but also…
Pete: Well, you aren't, but a lot of teachers are.
Susan: No, I know, but I'm just saying, I'm just speaking, you know, Irish humor, right?
So, it's not just our sexuality, I think, when we're talking about moral integrity.
We have to look at what we're even talking about. And that's why I don't write a book or release it
until I really have done as much inward and outward searching to confirm my right ideas,
because misleading people is also a moral error.
Yeah, that's very good. Very important. I was talking with a friend this morning who's a
spiritual teacher, and she was saying how it seems to her that a rather high percentage of
of spiritual teachers are narcissists.
Narcissistic personality disorder people are attracted to the profession because of the
attention they get.
Maybe it happens with politicians too.
And maybe, Irene is saying.
And that, of course, it's a vicious circle where the attention amplifies their narcissism
and then, you know, it's kind of a feedback loop.
You are a therapist, right?
You are.
I understand that narcissism is a very entrenched and intractable personality trait, very hard to
unwind and eliminate. So I think it kind of is incumbent upon students to use their discrimination
and evaluate teachers and not assume that a misbehavior on the part of a teacher is some
kind of crazy wisdom. It could just mean that the guy has some serious problems and you should
probably leave. Yeah, you say discrimination, I always say discernment. And yes,
yeah, it's the same word. We want to keep our critical awareness, always critical thinking
skills. It's another one. It's very important to keep our critical awareness, not just with
a spiritual teacher, but with everything you hear everything, everything. And of course,
there's that saying do your own research. Yeah. But if you're not a molecular biologist,
or whatever, you might want to give a little bit more weight to the opinions of people who
actually study the stuff deeply than be an armchair expert yourself.
Susan: That's right. And if we develop this inner moral compass, which we're talking about the Holy
Spirit in us, the body intelligence in us, if our body soul, if we develop it, we have that discernment
in spades. And it doesn't matter what people say, we feel it. We feel where they're at,
no matter what words are coming out of their mouth.
Pete: Yeah. And of course, it's like riding a bicycle, you have to keep balancing. You know,
you can't just, you know, figure, okay, I'm balanced, I'm good. What was his name?
Buddha Sage. But anyway, his name will come to me, but he said, "Although my awareness is as
vast as the sky, my attention to karma is as fine as a grain of barley flour."
Oh, shivers. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. I often say to people,
don't judge yourself by anyone else. Only you know when you are off, and only you have the
responsibility to get yourself back in. Some other person may not even know it, but you know it. And
And at a certain point, when we haven't developed our frequency so much, I guess, maybe we haven't
had so many lives, we are allowed many more errors.
But the more that we are, you know, becoming more spiritual, more committed, more dedicated,
being given more gifts, more responsibility, it has to be like this.
So we can't judge ourselves or think anything is permitted.
You know, "Oh, they can do it, why not me?"
Oh no, we may be on a very tight rein of what we're allowed.
- That's a very good point.
Carlos Castaneda's teacher, Don Juan, said,
he used the word warrior to refer to a spiritual aspirant.
He said, "A warrior has time only for his impeccability."
- Yeah, that's right.
It's this moral compass, the impeccability, and ultimately when we die, that is who judges
us.
We judge ourselves.
We see everything and we know everything where we made an error and everything where we...
Well done.
Yeah.
Well done.
Okay.
Well, well done, Tannis.
We've had a great chat, haven't we?
Yeah, we have.
I've really enjoyed it.
I'm sure we could go on for another two hours, but I'm not sure the audience would stay with
us.
No.
As you said, it's been freewheeling and it's been wonderful.
Yeah.
Getting to know you.
Yeah, and to know you.
Thank you so much.
I really love this aspect of what I do.
It's just meeting wonderful people like you and building this web of friendships around
the world.
Yeah.
This is the most important thing.
You're doing really wonderful, wonderful work.
Thank you for your 15 years of committed, dedicated service.
Well, thank you for everything you've been doing.
We're all on the same team, playing different positions.
Yeah, we're all.
Some people are pitchers, some are catchers, some are shortstops, whatever.
That's right, yeah.
Some are dogs, Irene, so we've got a couple of those down here wanting snacks.
And we talked earlier about how my partner is an angel hybrid.
Now your wife, your partner...
Are you asking me what she is?
I don't know. What kind of hybrid are you, Irene?
Are you a leprechaun, a brownie, a pixie, a goblin, a troll, an elf, a tree deva, an angel, a pan, or a dragon, or a bee?
[laughter]
How do you think you're a pan?
I don't know. We'll have to get you on the phone with Tana sometime.
She can diagnose you.
[laughter]
She says she's something weird, that's for sure.
Well, that is a common thing with hybrids too, is they always feel that they're a little
bit different.
Which is a good thing.
It is a good thing.
Find out our uniqueness and then work with it.
Yeah.
All right, well thanks so much, and thanks to those who've been listening or watching.
You'll have a page on BatGap, and I'll put links to your books and your websites on there,
and people can get in touch with you through those.
And besides your books, what have you got going on?
Webinars and...
Yeah, I have a Visit Magical World starting in January.
January 9th, we're going to be studying three of my books over three months.
We'll be starting with Good Morning Henry, which is about our body, intelligence, or
Holy Spirit in us.
Then we're going on to Hybrid So You Think You're Human to find out what kind of hybrid
those people are.
And then we're going to go on to the Dragon's Tale and people will find out more about the
dragon's message and working with dragons.
Pete: Those are the three books I read, and in that order.
[Laughter]
Susan: And in that order.
And the reason we're doing over three months with this is to give people a chance to read
it, but my intention on this whole series of Visit Magical Worlds is help people to raise
their frequency.
That is the intention.
And there's all kinds of other things, you've got little courses and meditations and whatnot
that one can download, so that's all on your website.
All there.
And so, since people might be watching this three years from now, you're talking about
January of 2025, but they can just check in on your website and see what's going on then.
Yep, I always work in Europe, May and June, so I'll be in four different countries and
can catch me there or I'll just write another book or I'll see them in astral realms.
Yeah, all right, well keep having fun and doing great things.
Yeah, and thanks for having me. I really, really loved our chat.
Me too, thank you. And again, thanks to those who've been listening or watching and if you
haven't ever visited the BatGap website, please do that and check out the menus and you'll
You'll find some interesting things there.
And there's a PayPal button if you'd like to help support the whole thing.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Thank you.