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[Music]

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Welcome to Buddha at the Gas Pump. My name is Rick Archer. Buddha at the Gas Pump is an ongoing

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series of conversations with spiritually awakening people and about spiritual topics. We've done over

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700 of these now, so if this is new to you and you'd like to check out previous ones,

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please go to batgap.com and look under the interviews menu where you'll see them organized in

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several different ways. This program is made possible through the support of appreciative

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listeners and viewers. So if you appreciate it and would like to help support it, there

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are PayPal buttons on the website and a page explaining alternatives to PayPal. My guest

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today is Kim Sheraton. Kim is an award-winning author, naturopath, entrepreneur, and more.

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Her focus includes animals, the afterlife, health, the environment, veganism, and all topics related

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to compassion for humans and animals alike. She is a highly respected expert on life after death

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for animals and much of her time is devoted to rescuing animals, caring for them, and providing

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hospice care for elderly animals making their transition to spirit. Kim is the author of

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Animals and the Afterlife, there's her book, and the founder of Compassion Circle,

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a non-profit organization with a mission to expand the circle of compassion to all beings.

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Compassion Circle is comprised of animal rescue, animal sanctuary, and a line of nutritional

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products for animals, all proceeds of which help fund the rescue and sanctuary. Kim's goal is to

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help make the world a better place, to provide comfort to those grieving the loss of a beloved

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animal, and to be a voice for the voiceless, teaching compassion and respect for all beings.

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And I just want to read a little blurb from the back of her book.

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When Kim grew up with animals as her constant companions, each time she faced the death

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of a beloved animal, along with the pain, came the same questions, to which she could

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find no answers.

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Then, mysterious things began to happen that she couldn't explain, which led her on an

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incredible journey to uncover the truth.

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Along with her own extraordinary experiences, she compiled heartwarming and meaningful true

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stories of everyday people around the world and discovered compelling evidence that forever

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erased her own doubts about an afterlife for animals. This book provides enormous comfort

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and reassurance to anyone who has ever cherished an animal and food for thought for anyone who

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has ever questioned the place of these beloved creatures in the larger scheme of things,

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both here on earth and beyond.

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Okay, thanks Kim. So Kim has been very busy lately and

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She's really been doing backflips to get ready for this interview amidst a million other things she has to do

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So I really appreciate your you're doing all that Kim and you don't look like somebody who didn't sleep much last night

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Well, I'm glad to hear I had it. Well

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You're welcome, it's an honor it's not gonna have you and I really enjoyed your book

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I read most of it and I read some of every chapter but all of some chapters and I really enjoyed it

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It was full of very uplifting stories and really nice quotes from people like Mahatma Gandhi

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and Albert Schweitzer, perhaps he was in there, and others about the importance of how we

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treat animals as a barometer or an indicator of the spiritual maturity of our society.

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I'm afraid that in many respects that barometer is not very high on its scale yet, but what

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you're doing I think is helping to raise it.

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doing my part, you know? We all do our part. So let's do the usual biographical thing. I alluded

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to it in that little blurb from the back of your book, but take us back, you know, to your childhood

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and what got you going on this life's mission that you are now so engaged in. Well, I was always a

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really sensitive child, I guess what you would call an HSP. Highly sensitive person. Highly sensitive

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person, yes. So I've always felt a connection to animals as long as I can remember. And I

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just felt compelled to help them. Like if a bird had fallen out of a tree or whatever,

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it was just second nature to do my best to nurse them back to health. So I always definitely felt

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a kinship with animals in some ways more than humans. I mean, I was really close with my family,

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but as far as other kids, I was often more comfortable just in the presence of the animals.

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So yeah, it started really, really early. Simultaneously, I was a very interesting, a very,

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I don't know, different, unusual kid. A lot of the kids would be out playing and I'd be studying

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things like ghosts and the afterlife and infinity, the universe, you know. I was just very introspective

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and so I kind of had those two interests pretty much growing throughout my life from the very

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young age, for as long as I can remember actually, right from my earliest, earliest memories.

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In fact, my earliest memory is of lying in my crib with this toy that I found disturbing because it

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had, it was like a stuffed bunny rabbit, but it had a hard plastic kind of scary human face on it.

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And I found it very creepy, so I used to throw it out of my crib. And then my mom would, bless her

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heart, I remember she'd come in the room and pick it off the floor and put it back in my crib,

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thinking I wanted it and I'm thinking, "No, she doesn't understand! I don't know how to talk yet,

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but she doesn't understand. I threw this thing out because it creeps me out." That was probably my

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earliest experience with an animal was it had a human face on it. I tend to resonate more with

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animals with animal faces. It's amazing you remember that from such a young age. You couldn't

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even talk yet. That was the first memory, yep. Aside from an intellectual interest in this kind

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of thing, reading about ghosts and the afterlife and the other things you mentioned, did you have

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any what we might call mystical experiences as a child? I had a lot. I regularly and still do

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have dreams that come true, precognitive dreams. It got to the point where my family would ask me

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because they took it seriously because they saw that my dreams would come true.

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I would see auras glow around people, I still do. And I remember before getting on an airplane,

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I had this sense that I should check everybody's aura who was getting on the plane to make sure

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that their aura was intact. And I didn't even know the word aura yet. I just knew that I needed to

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make sure that they had this life force glow around them. And if they did, then we'd be safe

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getting on the plane. But if they didn't, we shouldn't get on the plane. So for the rest of my

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dad's life, rest his soul, he would always ask me, "Are our auras intact before we get on the plane?

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Are we good to get on the plane? That's great, especially as the pilots are intact. You want

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to know that. Yeah, for sure. And it's interesting, years later, like I think not until I was in

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college, I was studying the work of Edgar Cayce, and I learned that he had this same gift or whatever

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you call it, and one time he was about to get on an elevator and he saw that none of the people on

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the elevator had auras, if I remember the story correctly, and he did not get on the elevator,

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and then that elevator crashed and they all passed. So I don't know exactly how to explain that other

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than there must be some divine order, which I always come back to, and their souls have already

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on some level checked out because they know that their time is up. Yeah, those were early memories.

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I've had mystical experience. I've had angelic encounters, sensing presences at the foot of my

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bed, lots of profound experiences throughout my early childhood all the way to today.

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Did you ever have like a dark night of the soul period, like maybe during your teenage years

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where you lost these abilities and got too involved in the world and then they came back? Or did that

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never happen to you? You know, there was a point when I was a preteen and a teenager when I had a

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lot of dreams in which I saw the death of somebody and it wasn't usually someone that I was particularly

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close to. One time it was the next door neighbor who I didn't actually even know personally. And

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and another time it was the father of a friend at church.

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And I would feel pretty devastated

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because I would know it was about to happen.

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And yet many times I would have the experience

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of having a dream in which someone I knew of

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or someone I knew or knew of was about to pass

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or in the dream, actually in the dream they had just passed.

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And I knew from experience what this meant

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was that they were going to pass.

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So I would have this dilemma like, okay, well, I know this,

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what can I do to prevent this?

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It was a real burden.

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And then when they inevitably passed,

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just as I saw in the dream, I felt heartbroken.

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I felt like, why am I seeing this

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if I can't do anything to stop it?

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I remember my mom called the wife of my pastor

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and told her about this.

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And I remember what she said.

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The pastor's wife, really sweet lady, said,

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"Well, it must be a gift from God."

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And so I remember grappling with that.

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If this is a gift, why is it so painful

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and why am I really not able to make a difference?

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So I think at that point,

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I did turn it off for some years as best I could.

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It never went away entirely

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because I have this interesting experience

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that's happened more times than I can count

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where I'm pretty much on the verge of dying,

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whether it be a car accident or an earthquake or some sicko,

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or in one case, a guy running a tank truck

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through a parking lot,

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And something will tell me not to be there at that time

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that I should have been there.

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And I get these warnings.

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One time it was a full-blown vision

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not to go to the prom with somebody

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or I'd die in a car crash and I saw the whole thing.

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I saw the future that would have unfolded

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had I gone to the prom with this guy

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who later passed actually the way that I saw in the vision,

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he drove off a cliff.

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I can't say I ever turned it off entirely

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because even when I tried,

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it was always there to save my life.

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And so I did have to finally surrender to the fact that,

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yes, this is a gift and I'm very grateful for it.

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And it must not be my time to go

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because I'm always somehow protected

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and I'm grateful for that.

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One of the things I have had to find peace with,

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maybe they call it survivor's guilt, I don't know,

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is that when other people are not protected

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or prevented from passing,

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what I've really concluded is that means it was their time

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and on some level, some sole contract

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they had already agreed to or planned

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it was already ordained or whatever to pass when they did. That's how I've found peace

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with that, particularly with close loved ones in my own life. When you lose someone really

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close to you, that's, I think, the only way you can find peace with it is to know that

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they're okay, you will see them again, and it was their time.

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Jared Yeah. If one reads your book, there's just

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so many stories that reaffirm the notion that we don't die when the body dies. It's more

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like casting off a worn-out garment, as the Bhagavad Gita puts it. And the Gita says, "What

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grief is there in this?" You know, it's like you're changing clothes.

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Jodie Right, yes. Yes.

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Pete But still, you know, we're human beings and

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we have human emotions and it probably is a little unnatural to get all cold and philosophical

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about it if someone or some animal very dear to us dies. It's natural to grieve.

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Jodie I think it's impossible to get cold and philosophical

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about it, I guess, unless you're a sociopath. But for the other 96% of us, we do the best

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we can and I think we use all of this information, which is what I've done with my research,

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to provide as much comfort as we can knowing that grieving will still take place and that

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is a necessary, a very painful but necessary part of the human experience.

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And I do also think that there's strength in numbers, so to speak.

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In other words, if someone has been through something traumatic and then you go through

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something traumatic, there's some kind of a bonding that takes place.

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I know that for me, I've found comfort from others who have been there and get it.

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And I try my best to be that person for other people who are going through it.

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You know, in many cases with animals, losing a pet, that's that person's best friend in

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the whole world.

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That's the person who was there.

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That's the person who didn't argue or fight back or take advantage.

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That's the person who was just there to love unconditionally.

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And then when that person, that person in fur or feathers or fins or whatever is gone, it's

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absolutely devastating and I acknowledge that.

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And anything I can do to help someone going through that, I'm on it.

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That's great.

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You know, as I was reading your book, I was impressed by the intensity with which you

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have loved your pets and also the intensity with which you grieved when they died.

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And I think that somehow correlates with what you were just saying about how you've had

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this subtle perception all your life of seeing auras and sensing future events and all that

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stuff, perhaps it's kind of natural. If they're as sensitive perceptually as you are, perhaps

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that's indicative of a very open heart, which is capable of both loving and grieving deeply.

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- Well said. Every time a new animal comes into my life, I do think to myself, "Okay,

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"Here comes another future broken heart, but I'm going to love them to pieces anyway."

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And ultimately, it is worth it, even though sometimes it's hard. Yeah, it's hard, you know?

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There's no other word for it. It's hard, but it's rewarding. And I really wouldn't, well,

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I shouldn't say I wouldn't have it any other way. I would. I would have it that no one ever died,

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but, you know, in this realm, or, you know what I mean? But seriously, the love is so worth it

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every single time.

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Pete: Well, it would get kind of crowded if no one ever died.

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Sarah: This is true. I've grappled with that in my mind also.

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Pete: Yeah.

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Sarah: I hear about the immortalists talking about living forever, I'm thinking, well,

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that's not really practical A, and B, at this point I know way too much about the afterlife

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to be that excited about staying here forever.

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Pete: I once had a spiritual teacher who said, he was talking about immortality and he said,

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"After all, if we want to be immortal, there must be much better bodies than these in which to do it."

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Oh, well said. So true. And the spirit body that we and all of our animal friends end

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up with are way better and they don't have all the aches and the pains and the emotional

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torment that we can all go through on this plane, for sure. And you know, back to what

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you're asking about A Dark Night of the Soul, I did have another one as an adult, and that

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was when I had a missing pet. And I felt responsible for her getting loose. And I enlisted a whole

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bunch of professional animal communicators to help me to find her and it was an amazing experience

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that I will write about in a future book. But in the end, it turned out that she had passed

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and she wasn't missing. She hadn't gotten loose or she had passed. And then I was grappling with

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and I talked to the professional animal communicators about this and that was before

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I understood that because they're tuning into the spirit of the animal, they don't always know that

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the animal is out of body either. If that little being is still around describing exactly what's

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going on, they're still around describing exactly what's going on, they are still involved, it's

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just we don't see them. It was an interesting time. It was like, "Oh my God, everything I

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thought I believed and now they weren't even here." But later I kind of came all the way around to,

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that gave me an actually a deeper understanding of how things work.

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I see. So you were saying that you began to doubt the animal communicators because they were getting

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messages from this pet and it turned out the pet had deceased.

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Had deceased, yes.

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And so you thought they were phonies or something.

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Well, I was like, "Well, how come they didn't know that she had passed?"

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And that's when I had a conversation with each of them.

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But before I had that conversation, I was, "I've been going down this path and

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she's been dead this whole time and she's been right here.

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You know, she's been right here. She didn't go anywhere. She's just dead."

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Anyway, it was a bizarre experience, but one I think I needed to have so I could

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communicate even better that this is a gift of the spirit.

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- And there are a number of accounts of animal communicators in your book which make at least

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some of them seem really quite legitimate and accurate in what they do.

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- Absolutely, profoundly, profoundly accurate. And I will say there are some who actually have a,

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you know, we all have gifts in different areas and there have been particular animal communicators.

00:16:54.500 --> 00:16:59.140
Of course, all of the ones in my books are amazing. And at the time that this animal went

00:16:59.140 --> 00:17:03.380
missing. It was after my book came out and none of them were available because after my book came

00:17:03.380 --> 00:17:08.580
out, they all got even busier. So, I had to start fresh with new animal communicants who I wasn't as

00:17:08.580 --> 00:17:12.580
familiar with. So, I think that played a role in that whole dark night of the soul I went through

00:17:12.580 --> 00:17:18.660
as well. But I will say, yes, it's a true gift that they have for sure. And some of them have

00:17:18.660 --> 00:17:23.860
more of a gift toward being able to discern whether an animal is in spirit or in the body.

00:17:23.860 --> 00:17:29.460
and some of those are actually specialized in finding lost pets. And that's a true gift because

00:17:29.460 --> 00:17:33.140
I mean, my goodness, what a horrible experience to go through when someone loses a loved one,

00:17:33.140 --> 00:17:38.820
whether animal or human, and they don't know where they are. There's no closure. There's

00:17:38.820 --> 00:17:45.060
just this constant tumultuous, heartbreaking, unchecked box, like, where are they? So anyone

00:17:45.060 --> 00:17:49.620
who goes through that with people and does that work, I just have the utmost respect for.

00:17:49.620 --> 00:17:51.940
Jeffrey Yeah, talk about not being able to sleep.

00:17:51.940 --> 00:17:54.020
It would be hard to go to bed at night.

00:17:54.020 --> 00:17:54.900
Angela Yeah, for sure.

00:17:54.900 --> 00:17:58.020
Jeffrey And it sounded like you were fairly rigorous in

00:17:58.020 --> 00:18:03.940
testing these animal communicators. You know, you matched them against each other and did various,

00:18:03.940 --> 00:18:08.980
it was almost like a scientific experiment sometimes to winnow out the more accurate ones.

00:18:08.980 --> 00:18:14.500
Angela Absolutely. Even though I've always had these very profound spiritual experiences,

00:18:14.500 --> 00:18:23.380
I'm a very logical-minded, OCD, no-stone-left-unturned, thinker-analyzer personality type who doesn't

00:18:23.380 --> 00:18:25.540
just take things at face value.

00:18:25.540 --> 00:18:27.100
They say a sucker's born every minute.

00:18:27.100 --> 00:18:31.400
I was like the off-minute because I'm the one who's always suspicious and testing and

00:18:31.400 --> 00:18:32.540
so forth.

00:18:32.540 --> 00:18:38.000
So I think that was good I was actually put in this role in life because, one, I can really

00:18:38.000 --> 00:18:41.780
be there to test and make sure that this is legit.

00:18:41.780 --> 00:18:48.880
I'm not going to put anything out there as it may seem unless I've really tested it to the utmost and be I think for me

00:18:48.880 --> 00:18:52.020
Personally it has helped me to have these otherworldly

00:18:52.020 --> 00:18:55.780
Experiences so often in my life because I hate to say it

00:18:55.780 --> 00:18:59.540
But I'm one of those people if I didn't experience any of this myself, I wouldn't believe it

00:18:59.540 --> 00:19:05.660
So I kind of have that duality within me that real strong skeptic along with that personal. Okay?

00:19:05.660 --> 00:19:09.540
Well, I can explain this way all I want but this is what's happening right in front of my eyes

00:19:10.060 --> 00:19:15.060
So, I think it's a real balance. I consider it a gift for which I'm grateful.

00:19:15.060 --> 00:19:20.780
Petey - I think that's really what our society needs more than anything is a balance of the

00:19:20.780 --> 00:19:24.660
scientific and the mystical, if we want to call it the mystical for lack of a better

00:19:24.660 --> 00:19:30.300
word because we're way too top-heavy on the scientific these days and mystics are dismissed

00:19:30.300 --> 00:19:36.980
by the scientific types as being nutcases, I guess, you know, like unrealistic people.

00:19:36.980 --> 00:19:43.220
Obviously, as your book discusses and many other people discuss, there are many realities

00:19:43.220 --> 00:19:48.500
to this universe that the scientists don't have the tools to investigate, and they kind

00:19:48.500 --> 00:19:53.580
of need the mystics if they really want to understand, or if we as a species want to really

00:19:53.580 --> 00:19:55.820
understand what makes the universe tick.

00:19:55.820 --> 00:20:01.580
We need both, and there's no reason they can't be collaborators rather than opponents.

00:20:01.580 --> 00:20:05.660
>> I couldn't agree more. And I think the interesting thing, or the irony, or whatever you want to call

00:20:05.660 --> 00:20:11.980
it, is that someday when all these scientific types pass away, and the body is gone and

00:20:11.980 --> 00:20:16.940
decomposing, and they're in this whole vast universe, this whole spiritual realm, they're

00:20:16.940 --> 00:20:23.100
going to realize that they were kind of in many ways the ignorant ones, and the thing they poo-pooed

00:20:23.100 --> 00:20:29.020
is reality, ultimately. And they just knew tiny bits about a tiny piece of reality,

00:20:29.020 --> 00:20:35.180
and so much was missed. Oh yeah, I have a good friend named Curtis. We have these long, friendly

00:20:35.180 --> 00:20:40.620
debates, and he's pretty much an atheist, although kind of open-minded, but basically he's pretty

00:20:40.620 --> 00:20:46.220
convinced that when you die, that's it, lights out, and I am the complete opposite. So we have

00:20:46.220 --> 00:20:51.660
these lively debates, and I keep trying to think of what evidence is there that I could present to

00:20:51.660 --> 00:20:57.260
him that would put a crack in his conviction, but I ultimately end up saying, "Well, don't worry,

00:20:57.260 --> 00:21:00.540
Curtis, you know, when you die, you'll be pleasantly surprised. You know, you say,

00:21:00.540 --> 00:21:03.420
"God, I should get in touch with Rick and tell him he was right."

00:21:03.420 --> 00:21:10.140
Yeah, totally. Maybe he will. You never know. It's interesting. But, you know, I try to tell people,

00:21:10.140 --> 00:21:13.020
I mean, skeptical people, you know, it doesn't matter what you tell them. If they've made their

00:21:13.020 --> 00:21:16.140
mind up, they've made their mind up. It's like banging your head against the wall. However,

00:21:16.140 --> 00:21:21.420
at this point, there's so much evidence. There's so many categories, you know, we talk about

00:21:21.420 --> 00:21:25.900
mediums, we talk about animal communicators, we talk about personal experience, visions, etc.

00:21:25.900 --> 00:21:34.700
But NDEs, yes, near-death experiences, there is so much, so much in those experiences that cannot be

00:21:34.700 --> 00:21:39.020
just explained away or dismissed when you think about, you know, the people who are floating

00:21:39.020 --> 00:21:43.100
outside of their bodies and they're seeing what's going on. They're describing the, "Oh,

00:21:43.100 --> 00:21:47.900
they let you sew the syringe up inside of my body," or whatever. "I saw you drop your pen

00:21:47.900 --> 00:21:51.020
under the thing and then..." - "There's a red sneaker on the roof of the hospital."

00:21:51.020 --> 00:21:55.100
- "There's a red sneaker, exactly." And then they come back in their body, they describe these

00:21:55.100 --> 00:21:57.860
these things, they're still on the bed and those things happened and those things are

00:21:57.860 --> 00:22:01.740
true. And there's absolutely no way they could have known that unless they were out of their

00:22:01.740 --> 00:22:06.580
body actually witnessing these things. And so that right there, how is an atheist or

00:22:06.580 --> 00:22:10.620
whatever going to explain that away? I mean, they'll probably try to find ways, but it's

00:22:10.620 --> 00:22:16.540
like, come on, there comes a point where we need to acknowledge that there's a bigger picture.

00:22:16.540 --> 00:22:23.500
And also we're so intricately created, the way the body's put together and the lungs

00:22:23.500 --> 00:22:29.660
to breathe and that, I mean, for this to all be random just blows my mind. To me, that would be

00:22:29.660 --> 00:22:34.940
much harder to wrap one's mind around when you really start looking into the grand design,

00:22:34.940 --> 00:22:37.420
the divine design of our world.

00:22:37.420 --> 00:22:40.540
Pete You're singing my song. I love this topic.

00:22:40.540 --> 00:22:47.180
It's almost like God is hiding in plain sight if we just have the eyes to see and the insight to

00:22:47.180 --> 00:22:52.620
accept what we're seeing. You've probably heard of the idea of fine-tuning of the universe,

00:22:52.620 --> 00:22:57.500
how there are a whole bunch of different variables that if they're off by just a fraction of a

00:22:57.500 --> 00:23:02.460
percent, we either wouldn't have a universe, or it wouldn't have life, or things like that.

00:23:02.460 --> 00:23:07.420
Scientists, when they look at that, they come up with the notion of a multiverse,

00:23:07.420 --> 00:23:11.100
because they said, "Okay, well, there must be an infinite number of universes, and we just

00:23:11.100 --> 00:23:15.180
happen to have lucked out to be in the one where all these variables were just right,

00:23:15.180 --> 00:23:19.820
and the odds of them being just right are astronomically small." And that's kind of

00:23:19.820 --> 00:23:23.140
of their cop-out that, "Well, there must be a lot of universes and all the other ones

00:23:23.140 --> 00:23:25.420
are duds and we lucked out."

00:23:25.420 --> 00:23:31.260
Kind of a desperate attempt to avoid admitting that there's some kind of intelligence orchestrating

00:23:31.260 --> 00:23:32.260
everything.

00:23:32.260 --> 00:23:35.700
Well said, and it actually sounds desperate to me, but, you know, whatever keeps them

00:23:35.700 --> 00:23:37.700
comfortable in their paradigm.

00:23:37.700 --> 00:23:38.940
Yeah.

00:23:38.940 --> 00:23:44.580
Back to what I was saying also about the design of us, I'm often struck because of all the

00:23:44.580 --> 00:23:49.780
animal rescue work I do, from time to time I see animal x-rays and to see their little

00:23:49.780 --> 00:23:55.620
bodies look so much like ours, right down to the lungs. I mean, there are differences,

00:23:55.620 --> 00:23:59.700
obviously, but I see the little spine and the legs. They're like little miniature, in

00:23:59.700 --> 00:24:04.820
some cases large, like horses or whatever, you know, versions of us. And that is coupled

00:24:04.820 --> 00:24:09.700
with my experience with them, being with them, being in their presence, looking in their

00:24:09.700 --> 00:24:16.780
their eyes and seeing how they behave and seeing things they do that are not just survival,

00:24:16.780 --> 00:24:22.580
not just instinct, but seeing one animal go out of their way to assist another animal,

00:24:22.580 --> 00:24:28.340
an ailing animal, an elderly animal, whatever, for no personal gain other than to help this

00:24:28.340 --> 00:24:29.340
other animal.

00:24:29.340 --> 00:24:30.340
It's just a grand design.

00:24:30.340 --> 00:24:34.460
Yeah, tell that story from your book about where there was an old rat and she couldn't

00:24:34.460 --> 00:24:36.500
see or move very well or anything.

00:24:36.500 --> 00:24:37.500
Yes, Madeline.

00:24:37.500 --> 00:24:42.140
And then this other rat brought her all these banana slices and guarded it so she could eat them.

00:24:42.140 --> 00:24:44.540
Yes. I just told the story, but go ahead and embellish it.

00:24:44.540 --> 00:24:49.180
No, no, you told it well. Thank you. I didn't have to test you. Did you read the book?

00:24:49.180 --> 00:24:50.300
I pretty much did, yeah.

00:24:50.300 --> 00:24:57.100
That was just one example of many. The older rat couldn't get around as readily, and so the younger

00:24:57.100 --> 00:25:02.540
rat would grab her all the, actually the best slices, the most choice slices of banana, and

00:25:02.540 --> 00:25:05.980
run and put them there. And yeah, and stand guard right in front to make sure she could eat enough

00:25:05.980 --> 00:25:12.220
without any of the less honorable little creatures coming to take her stash. And I see those

00:25:12.220 --> 00:25:16.660
types of things again and again. And it touches my heart. And yeah, it's like the God within

00:25:16.660 --> 00:25:22.380
all things, you know, the love, you just see that in all creatures. And it's so rewarding

00:25:22.380 --> 00:25:28.220
to be getting to know these other little creatures and to have a level of connection and communication

00:25:28.220 --> 00:25:33.100
that goes beyond human speech. And I think that's one of the things that does bond us

00:25:33.100 --> 00:25:38.280
with them. It helps us to get more in touch with our spiritual aspect when we don't have

00:25:38.280 --> 00:25:42.320
words in the way. I mean, think about all the times humans have had misunderstandings,

00:25:42.320 --> 00:25:47.640
whether verbally or emails, you know, "Well, I didn't mean to have a tone in my email,"

00:25:47.640 --> 00:25:54.160
or whatever. And with animals, that's all stripped away. And it's just pure bonding,

00:25:54.160 --> 00:25:58.360
pure connection. And it's a beautiful part of life. And that's another part of life that

00:25:58.360 --> 00:26:02.960
that I think a lot of the really serious scientific types

00:26:02.960 --> 00:26:04.320
are missing out on.

00:26:04.320 --> 00:26:06.760
Obviously some have a dog or cat or whatnot in their life,

00:26:06.760 --> 00:26:09.940
but for many, there's just never been that connection.

00:26:09.940 --> 00:26:11.400
And it's like that one quote,

00:26:11.400 --> 00:26:13.080
"Until one has loved an animal,

00:26:13.080 --> 00:26:15.400
a part of one's soul remains unawakened."

00:26:15.400 --> 00:26:17.160
And I think that's true.

00:26:17.160 --> 00:26:18.200
I think it's a part of life

00:26:18.200 --> 00:26:20.040
that a lot of people have missed out on.

00:26:20.040 --> 00:26:21.640
But thank God a lot of people have that.

00:26:21.640 --> 00:26:25.000
And I think that is what gets a lot of people through life.

00:26:25.000 --> 00:26:26.680
You know, enough humans let you down.

00:26:26.680 --> 00:26:30.160
you're sure glad to have your beloved animal companions in your life.

00:26:30.160 --> 00:26:31.160
Yeah.

00:26:31.160 --> 00:26:35.640
To quote the Bhagavad Gita again, there's a verse which says that the enlightened being

00:26:35.640 --> 00:26:40.080
sees the self in all beings and all beings in the self.

00:26:40.080 --> 00:26:44.080
The second part of it means the self is so universal that we're all contained in it like

00:26:44.080 --> 00:26:45.520
fish in water.

00:26:45.520 --> 00:26:51.000
But the self in all beings, you look into the eyes of a dog or a cat or a rat or something

00:26:51.000 --> 00:26:52.760
and basically you see yourself.

00:26:52.760 --> 00:26:53.760
Yeah.

00:26:53.760 --> 00:26:59.360
more similar than we are different for sure. For sure. Our essence is completely the same.

00:26:59.360 --> 00:27:04.480
Yes. Kind of like there's a verse from light that is one though the lamps be many.

00:27:04.480 --> 00:27:08.960
Well said, I like that. It's a line from the incredible string band which was before your time

00:27:08.960 --> 00:27:15.840
I'm sure. I'll have to look them up. From the 60s. I had a couple of interviews with a woman who's an

00:27:15.840 --> 00:27:20.800
animal communicator and very good at it, Anna Breitenbach if you've heard of her. She's from

00:27:20.800 --> 00:27:26.160
South Africa originally. And we had this little debate, which we never resolved, in which

00:27:26.160 --> 00:27:31.600
she was asserting that there's no hierarchy, that all levels, all beings are kind of like

00:27:31.600 --> 00:27:36.960
of equal value. And I said, "Well, what about, let's say, in Africa, children are

00:27:36.960 --> 00:27:43.360
dying of malaria, and we want to do what we can to control the mosquito population so

00:27:43.360 --> 00:27:49.060
kids don't get malaria so much? Is the life of a child more valuable than the life of

00:27:49.060 --> 00:27:54.980
mosquito and she couldn't agree that it was. And it's funny because my last time I interviewed her

00:27:54.980 --> 00:28:00.260
she had like a a stye or an eye infection of some kind and she was taking antibiotics and putting

00:28:00.260 --> 00:28:04.580
an ointment on there and I thought I didn't think to say it but I thought how about those little

00:28:04.580 --> 00:28:11.140
bacteria they're biting the dust for the benefit of her eye. What do you think about that the whole

00:28:11.140 --> 00:28:18.540
idea that there are levels of evolution and in some respects, perhaps, the more complex

00:28:18.540 --> 00:28:25.780
forms of life are, it's like God has more invested in them than it does in the simpler

00:28:25.780 --> 00:28:26.900
forms of life.

00:28:26.900 --> 00:28:31.800
Angela: You know, I've grappled with that one a lot and here's where I'm at currently

00:28:31.800 --> 00:28:36.020
with that. I don't see a hierarchy, I'll say that for number one. Like, in other words,

00:28:36.020 --> 00:28:43.500
I know a lot of rats or dogs or cats or whatnot, or fish, who I feel, and I see a greater spiritual

00:28:43.500 --> 00:28:49.140
evolution in than some, well, a lot of humans I've had experiences with.

00:28:49.140 --> 00:28:51.340
So on that level, I don't see a hierarchy.

00:28:51.340 --> 00:28:57.380
However, as far as you're talking about bacteria and mosquitoes, and I had my own experience

00:28:57.380 --> 00:29:03.300
with bedbugs, and I will admit to the world that I allowed the bedbugs to starve.

00:29:03.300 --> 00:29:04.300
I didn't feed them.

00:29:04.300 --> 00:29:08.220
blood feast that they live on. I actually had to move out of the bedroom for over a year,

00:29:08.220 --> 00:29:13.740
but anyway, that's another story. But the way I see it, if you look at it biblically,

00:29:13.740 --> 00:29:18.740
don't kill or eat creatures with the lifeblood in them, my interpretation of that is very

00:29:18.740 --> 00:29:23.300
different than what historical humans did. They saw that to mean you just bleed someone

00:29:23.300 --> 00:29:29.060
alive, you know, gut them and bleed them alive in front of the other terrified animals and

00:29:29.060 --> 00:29:33.940
then eat them. I see that as animals who don't really have blood like us in the first place.

00:29:33.940 --> 00:29:40.880
So then that does bring to mind certain creatures that are different from us.

00:29:40.880 --> 00:29:47.220
So yeah, do evolved and evolving souls like us and our animal friends, do they inhabit

00:29:47.220 --> 00:29:48.220
bedbugs?

00:29:48.220 --> 00:29:49.220
I don't know.

00:29:49.220 --> 00:29:55.980
I mean, I think that the life of a person or an animal is more important than the bacteria

00:29:55.980 --> 00:29:58.820
that you're using, antibiotics or whatever you're using to kill.

00:29:58.820 --> 00:30:02.620
I don't know if that's clear what I'm saying, but I'm kind of wrapping around to saying I

00:30:02.620 --> 00:30:03.620
I agree with you.

00:30:03.620 --> 00:30:06.340
Petey It is sort of a hierarchical consideration,

00:30:06.340 --> 00:30:10.700
although there are kind of negative implications to the word hierarchy, you know, and that

00:30:10.700 --> 00:30:15.580
notion has been abused a lot to justify a lot of mistreatment of animals.

00:30:15.580 --> 00:30:18.260
Nicole Yes. And of different groups.

00:30:18.260 --> 00:30:19.260
Petey Absolutely.

00:30:19.260 --> 00:30:22.380
Nicole Races or women, you know, like the early

00:30:22.380 --> 00:30:26.620
rabbis, the things they said about women, don't be in their presence, you know, you

00:30:26.620 --> 00:30:31.780
might as well be killed if you entrust any spiritual knowledge to them and so forth.

00:30:31.780 --> 00:30:34.980
And so, sorry, I'm grossly misquoting that, but you get the idea.

00:30:34.980 --> 00:30:35.980
Pete – I know what you mean, yeah.

00:30:35.980 --> 00:30:36.980
Sarah – Throughout history.

00:30:36.980 --> 00:30:38.700
Pete – All sorts of egregious examples.

00:30:38.700 --> 00:30:40.540
Sarah – Yes, yes.

00:30:40.540 --> 00:30:44.300
Pete – That spiritual teacher I alluded to earlier also once said, "If you have to

00:30:44.300 --> 00:30:47.580
eat somebody, eat lesser evolved life."

00:30:47.580 --> 00:30:52.020
I think what he was getting at is, you know, a cabbage is less evolved than a chicken, or

00:30:52.020 --> 00:30:53.980
certainly than a cow, and whatever.

00:30:53.980 --> 00:30:57.140
So, he was advocating vegetarianism basically there.

00:30:57.140 --> 00:30:58.820
Yeah, and I agree with that.

00:30:58.820 --> 00:31:03.100
Like, I've always said, you know, the day my broccoli screams and tries to run away from

00:31:03.100 --> 00:31:04.700
me is the day I stop eating broccoli.

00:31:04.700 --> 00:31:05.700
Yeah.

00:31:05.700 --> 00:31:09.700
And to take that one step further, actually, like the secret life of plants and all of

00:31:09.700 --> 00:31:15.300
that type of research, when you think about it, the plants, when they know that, at least

00:31:15.300 --> 00:31:19.940
from the research I've looked at, I'm no expert on this, when the plants know that a person

00:31:19.940 --> 00:31:23.420
is about to come in and do them harm, they will put themselves in, I guess, what we would

00:31:23.420 --> 00:31:30.340
consider a coma, they'll like check out. Whereas the sentient beings among us, you know, the

00:31:30.340 --> 00:31:34.780
humans and the animals, we don't tend to have that luxury. There is the suffering and the

00:31:34.780 --> 00:31:38.540
torment and I think that's the difference. If we don't want to contribute to suffering,

00:31:38.540 --> 00:31:41.580
then we just take a look at that with our every choice.

00:31:41.580 --> 00:31:45.540
Which reminds me actually of what you said about people getting on an airplane who didn't

00:31:45.540 --> 00:31:50.540
have an aura or on an elevator. It's like in a sense that they somehow have checked out.

00:31:50.540 --> 00:31:55.440
some kind of premonition that they weren't even aware of themselves, but there was some

00:31:55.440 --> 00:31:57.300
kind of a checkout process.

00:31:57.300 --> 00:32:02.540
And I've also heard of people, like in car accidents, who felt like just before impact

00:32:02.540 --> 00:32:08.700
they rose above their body or something and were out of it when the actual trauma injury

00:32:08.700 --> 00:32:09.700
happened.

00:32:09.700 --> 00:32:12.820
Yes, yes, I've heard cases of that as well, and I've spoken with people who've had that

00:32:12.820 --> 00:32:13.820
experience.

00:32:13.820 --> 00:32:18.820
You know, there are multiple levels in this, and I think we, as human beings as we are right

00:32:18.820 --> 00:32:23.720
now only make the best choices we can with what's in front of us. And most people don't

00:32:23.720 --> 00:32:28.140
see auras checking out or not, and so we consider that when there's a sense of being in front

00:32:28.140 --> 00:32:33.180
of us, we treat them the way that we would expect to be treated. And yet, at the same

00:32:33.180 --> 00:32:38.000
time when we're in the experience of grieving, to remind ourselves that there is some kind

00:32:38.000 --> 00:32:39.300
of divine order.

00:32:39.300 --> 00:32:43.460
Pete Yeah. As we talk, feel free to sprinkle our

00:32:43.460 --> 00:32:47.820
conversation with stories from your book because there's so many good stories in there, and

00:32:47.820 --> 00:32:51.780
if anything we're talking about reminds you of a story that helps to illustrate the point

00:32:51.780 --> 00:32:54.140
we're making, then just go for it and bring that up.

00:32:54.140 --> 00:32:55.140
Okay, awesome.

00:32:55.140 --> 00:32:56.140
Thank you.

00:32:56.140 --> 00:32:57.700
Any now come to mind?

00:32:57.700 --> 00:33:02.740
The chapter I have on people having actual visitations where people see the animal come

00:33:02.740 --> 00:33:05.840
visit them, and I've had many experiences.

00:33:05.840 --> 00:33:10.860
The one I've had quite often is feeling the animal, like jumping on the bed and so forth,

00:33:10.860 --> 00:33:13.260
which is a real common one as well.

00:33:13.260 --> 00:33:17.580
It's a reminder to me that even when people have checked out, it's not like some people

00:33:17.580 --> 00:33:19.500
"Oh, they're now living in bliss."

00:33:19.500 --> 00:33:23.340
How's that gonna help somebody who's grieving the loss of an animal, really?

00:33:23.340 --> 00:33:25.080
Or a person, you know?

00:33:25.080 --> 00:33:30.380
And I've had some major human losses in my life that I will write about at some point.

00:33:30.380 --> 00:33:34.220
That was a whole 'nother dark night of the soul that I'm probably still coming out of.

00:33:34.220 --> 00:33:37.940
And the thing is, that doesn't help anybody, and I don't even think it's true.

00:33:37.940 --> 00:33:41.520
In my experience, when people and animals pass,

00:33:41.520 --> 00:33:45.380
and often when I say people, I mean animals, I'm trying to clarify here,

00:33:45.380 --> 00:33:50.220
because to me, they are people, they're just people with different costumes on.

00:33:50.220 --> 00:33:53.060
They don't usually just move on.

00:33:53.060 --> 00:33:58.020
In my experience, they stick around at least long enough to try to let us know that they're

00:33:58.020 --> 00:33:59.020
around.

00:33:59.020 --> 00:34:02.140
We don't always get it because when we're grieving, it really does tend to put up a

00:34:02.140 --> 00:34:06.540
wall that can make it harder for us to see what's right there.

00:34:06.540 --> 00:34:13.340
But they do, in my experience, try to find some way to let us know that they're okay.

00:34:13.340 --> 00:34:14.820
Because they do still care about us.

00:34:14.820 --> 00:34:16.200
There still is that connection.

00:34:16.200 --> 00:34:19.460
Leaving the body doesn't change the perception at all.

00:34:19.460 --> 00:34:22.380
I mean, I've had my own out-of-body experiences.

00:34:22.380 --> 00:34:25.140
And I remember the first time I had a waking one,

00:34:25.140 --> 00:34:27.440
I think I believe we have them often when we're asleep,

00:34:27.440 --> 00:34:29.120
but my first waking one,

00:34:29.120 --> 00:34:31.740
where I consciously felt myself leaving my body,

00:34:31.740 --> 00:34:34.180
I remember I still felt a little bit nervous,

00:34:34.180 --> 00:34:36.340
like, oh my gosh, you know, I was still me,

00:34:36.340 --> 00:34:37.500
I was still totally me.

00:34:37.500 --> 00:34:39.200
So there's still totally them.

00:34:39.200 --> 00:34:43.040
And there are experiences where people actually see them.

00:34:43.040 --> 00:34:47.300
Some people have the gift so they can see "ghosts" more readily than others.

00:34:47.300 --> 00:34:50.320
I have a good friend who has that gift.

00:34:50.320 --> 00:34:52.860
It scares her, but I always tell her I'm jealous of her.

00:34:52.860 --> 00:34:54.800
I wish I had that gift.

00:34:54.800 --> 00:34:57.080
But a couple of things.

00:34:57.080 --> 00:35:02.080
One of them is that, A, if you don't have this experience, it doesn't mean they're not

00:35:02.080 --> 00:35:03.600
trying to let you know that they're okay.

00:35:03.600 --> 00:35:05.300
It doesn't mean they're not around.

00:35:05.300 --> 00:35:08.980
It just means maybe you've got a wall up because you're just so deep in grief.

00:35:08.980 --> 00:35:10.900
And I've been there.

00:35:10.900 --> 00:35:16.380
they will find someone else to let us know that they're still around and they're okay.

00:35:16.380 --> 00:35:20.340
And when it comes to an animal, one of the biggest things we need to hear, and I'm talking

00:35:20.340 --> 00:35:25.660
about myself here just as much as anyone else, we need to know we made the right end of life

00:35:25.660 --> 00:35:31.200
decisions because that's never easy. It's never easy. Maybe it is for some. I've never

00:35:31.200 --> 00:35:37.460
had it be easy. And I've been at the bedside of, at this point, literally hundreds of beings,

00:35:37.460 --> 00:35:43.740
really close humans and hundreds of animals. And we need to know that they're around and

00:35:43.740 --> 00:35:48.940
they are. And whether it be a professional animal communicator or a medium, as I talk

00:35:48.940 --> 00:35:53.340
about in my book, whether it be an outside person who has to bring us that message or

00:35:53.340 --> 00:35:57.860
whether we get that contact ourself, they really are letting us know. And what I was

00:35:57.860 --> 00:36:02.060
starting to say when I went off on a tangent was the number one thing I do believe we do

00:36:02.060 --> 00:36:06.420
need to know is that we made the right decision, that we didn't mess up. We're not the reason

00:36:06.420 --> 00:36:11.020
they died were not the reason they suffered. Every step of the way, we did the best we

00:36:11.020 --> 00:36:16.380
could in the moment, and they know that. And they're not in that moment anymore. I think

00:36:16.380 --> 00:36:20.420
one of the biggest things we need to do is get ourselves out of that moment and remind

00:36:20.420 --> 00:36:24.060
ourselves that they're not in it. Even if it looked horrendous at one point, it was

00:36:24.060 --> 00:36:28.380
just that time, and it's long in their history now, and they feel great. They're in their

00:36:28.380 --> 00:36:31.980
spirit bodies. And spirit bodies don't hurt, which is wonderful.

00:36:31.980 --> 00:36:37.660
Yeah, we've had a few pets that we felt afterwards that we had dragged it out too long, you know,

00:36:37.660 --> 00:36:41.460
before having them euthanized and that, you know, obviously they wouldn't have remained

00:36:41.460 --> 00:36:46.540
alive in the wild, although domesticated animals wouldn't anyway, but it's like, what were

00:36:46.540 --> 00:36:47.540
we thinking?

00:36:47.540 --> 00:36:52.460
They were just so far gone and blind and walking around in circles and we should have just

00:36:52.460 --> 00:36:55.380
put them down, but it was so hard to do that.

00:36:55.380 --> 00:36:59.100
But we didn't beat ourselves up afterwards for not having done it because we felt, okay,

00:36:59.100 --> 00:37:04.420
They're in a good place and maybe we should live and learn maybe next time. We'll you know, not drag it out

00:37:04.420 --> 00:37:09.780
So long good for you for not beating yourselves up. You know, that's something I'm actually still working on

00:37:09.780 --> 00:37:11.860
Yeah, they say you teach what you most need to learn

00:37:11.860 --> 00:37:18.380
I'm still working on that one Dakota woulda should is you know, that's something I'm still trying to banish from my world

00:37:18.380 --> 00:37:24.260
Well, I'm still beating myself up over my childhood dog that I got when I was like 12 or 13

00:37:25.200 --> 00:37:30.200
She was a constant companion and yeah, I can tell you stories about how close we were

00:37:30.200 --> 00:37:35.840
But at a certain point I was a little older in my early 20s and a spiritual teacher had said that

00:37:35.840 --> 00:37:43.400
Don't be that close with animals. They drain your energy and I believed it. So I just started behaving very aloof toward the dog

00:37:43.400 --> 00:37:46.760
It's a whole different mindset and one evening

00:37:46.760 --> 00:37:49.380
I was going for a walk with friends and I saw my dog

00:37:49.840 --> 00:37:55.800
Sitting a couple hundred yards away in a neighbor's yard just sitting there like forlorn and I thought oh my god

00:37:55.800 --> 00:37:59.800
And what have I done? So I can like I completely like, you know

00:37:59.800 --> 00:38:02.400
Please forgive me

00:38:02.400 --> 00:38:06.880
It's weird, yeah, this is like over 50 years ago

00:38:06.880 --> 00:38:12.600
But it still comes to mind sometimes and you know, I wish I had been more sensitive or something

00:38:12.600 --> 00:38:15.360
You know, we're on our journey. We all have our regrets

00:38:15.880 --> 00:38:19.040
Regrets are rough, but we all do the best we can in the moment

00:38:19.040 --> 00:38:25.960
And you know that also brings to mind a lot of spiritual teachers in various religions religions and philosophical beliefs

00:38:25.960 --> 00:38:29.700
I've had some people come to me who were told some horrible things

00:38:29.700 --> 00:38:37.400
That can't help anybody and I'm thinking who is this person this human being I don't care how enlightened they think they are

00:38:37.400 --> 00:38:44.400
They're not very enlightened at all. If they're saying something to somebody that is so obviously hurtful like oh

00:38:44.880 --> 00:38:48.480
"Oh, there's no afterlife for pets, you'll never see your dog again."

00:38:48.480 --> 00:38:51.600
What kind of a human... I'm sorry.

00:38:51.600 --> 00:38:54.680
Or someone gets cancer and they say, "Oh, it must be their karma."

00:38:54.680 --> 00:38:56.680
It must be their karma, yeah.

00:38:56.680 --> 00:39:00.320
Okay, well, if that's the case, and everyone has bad karma, because you stick around long enough,

00:39:00.320 --> 00:39:03.360
just about everyone ends up with cancer. So the ones who got it early,

00:39:03.360 --> 00:39:05.840
that must mean they had good karma, because they got to go home sooner.

00:39:05.840 --> 00:39:08.600
- [laughs] - So there.

00:39:08.600 --> 00:39:10.600
To all the people who say that.

00:39:10.600 --> 00:39:14.320
People need to be sensitive to other people, and I truly believe that,

00:39:14.320 --> 00:39:18.280
I don't care how enlightened somebody thinks they are, to have that lack of compassion,

00:39:18.280 --> 00:39:19.520
even if they believe it.

00:39:19.520 --> 00:39:24.680
Okay, let's say some spiritual teacher really believes that there's no afterlife for animals.

00:39:24.680 --> 00:39:26.400
Let's say they really believe it.

00:39:26.400 --> 00:39:33.160
If they're enlightened, they're still not going to say that to somebody who lost a pet.

00:39:33.160 --> 00:39:39.000
Because I mean, compassion 101, hello, you know, compassion is a key component of love,

00:39:39.000 --> 00:39:40.000
and that's all missing.

00:39:40.000 --> 00:39:41.280
So, in my book, write them off.

00:39:41.280 --> 00:39:43.440
They're not a good spiritual teacher anymore.

00:39:43.440 --> 00:39:47.520
I know the one you mentioned, that was a whole different topic, but that just brought this

00:39:47.520 --> 00:39:52.220
to mind because this has come up a lot from people in various religions, or that the animals

00:39:52.220 --> 00:39:56.760
are going to a different place, or that they're going to reincarnate immediately in some other

00:39:56.760 --> 00:39:58.400
form and they'll never see them again.

00:39:58.400 --> 00:39:59.840
All of these things I've heard.

00:39:59.840 --> 00:40:04.400
I will say right now, from my research, none of it's true.

00:40:04.400 --> 00:40:11.800
You know, we're souls and we form bonds and those bonds don't end when we pass.

00:40:11.800 --> 00:40:15.300
Some people have their pets waiting for them when they pass.

00:40:15.300 --> 00:40:20.740
Other pets return to do some more time with them here on the plane because they love them

00:40:20.740 --> 00:40:24.420
so much and most of them tend to have shorter lifespans than we do.

00:40:24.420 --> 00:40:26.660
And there have been many cases of animals coming back.

00:40:26.660 --> 00:40:31.460
I've had the experience and many others have and I do talk about that in my book as well.

00:40:31.460 --> 00:40:36.780
Some have criticized my book for that topic, for saying animals reincarnate, but I'm happy

00:40:36.780 --> 00:40:40.500
to debate them over this because there's, and I don't care what religion, there's biblical

00:40:40.500 --> 00:40:46.260
evidence of reincarnation, and I have a background in Christianity and a lot of biblical studies,

00:40:46.260 --> 00:40:51.460
and I'm very familiar with the scriptures and the various interpretations and misinterpretations

00:40:51.460 --> 00:40:57.940
and the original Hebrew and the original Greek and so forth. So, I say that just to let people

00:40:57.940 --> 00:41:02.940
know I don't feel that we should let any "religion" scare us away from believing what's right

00:41:02.940 --> 00:41:09.620
in front of our own eyes. The evidence that animals do sometimes come back to us is completely

00:41:09.620 --> 00:41:13.260
overwhelming, and at this point, I'm comfortable admitting that publicly.

00:41:13.260 --> 00:41:14.260
Pete: Sure.

00:41:14.260 --> 00:41:17.180
Sarah: Again, going back to what we talked about at the beginning of the conversation,

00:41:17.180 --> 00:41:21.380
I wouldn't put something out there and put my reputation on it unless I had seen enough

00:41:21.380 --> 00:41:25.700
evidence to really be able to stand behind it. And I mean, what kind of a, you know,

00:41:25.700 --> 00:41:30.860
God is love. Of course, God loves us. And if God has brought this beautiful creature

00:41:30.860 --> 00:41:36.740
into our lives to bring us love that perhaps we never got from another human being and

00:41:36.740 --> 00:41:40.900
that animal passes and does return in another form to us.

00:41:40.900 --> 00:41:43.780
And that seems like a beautiful gift from God.

00:41:43.780 --> 00:41:47.420
And I've had many people who've had this experience and it ran counter to their religion

00:41:47.420 --> 00:41:49.560
and they were confused by it.

00:41:49.560 --> 00:41:51.260
So I feel it's important to address that.

00:41:51.260 --> 00:41:53.340
It's nothing to be confused by, that's what love would do.

00:41:53.340 --> 00:41:54.940
It's like, what would love do?

00:41:54.940 --> 00:41:56.740
What would compassion do?

00:41:56.740 --> 00:42:01.180
And that's not to say that they always come back to us, it's just to say that there are

00:42:01.180 --> 00:42:03.940
times when they do, when it's on their life journey as well.

00:42:03.940 --> 00:42:09.780
But regardless, I do believe 100% that that reunion will happen, whether it's here or in

00:42:09.780 --> 00:42:10.780
the afterlife.

00:42:10.780 --> 00:42:17.220
Pete: Yeah, I'm afraid that many religions have become perhaps very distorted from what

00:42:17.220 --> 00:42:18.540
they started out to be.

00:42:18.540 --> 00:42:19.540
Kirsten: Yes.

00:42:19.540 --> 00:42:23.520
Pete: You know, like some great sage like Jesus or somebody comes out and has a very

00:42:23.520 --> 00:42:27.380
pure teaching and then it's like the party game of telephone, it gets passed around and

00:42:27.380 --> 00:42:31.500
around and around and around until it bears little resemblance to what was originally

00:42:31.500 --> 00:42:32.500
said.

00:42:32.500 --> 00:42:37.700
true and I feel that in some ways this breaks God's heart. I see that, I mean, and I've had a very

00:42:37.700 --> 00:42:42.180
personal relationship with Jesus. He actually showed up at the foot of my bed at a point in

00:42:42.180 --> 00:42:48.420
my life when I didn't even believe He existed. That is one compassionate being who really would

00:42:48.420 --> 00:42:54.020
not stand behind a lot of what's being said and done in His name. And yeah, Jesus rocks,

00:42:54.020 --> 00:42:59.300
and I think that if people understood His message better, we would have a much more

00:42:59.300 --> 00:43:00.540
compassionate world.

00:43:00.540 --> 00:43:04.540
Pete: That reminds me of Jesus saves, Moses invests.

00:43:04.540 --> 00:43:05.540
[Laughter]

00:43:05.540 --> 00:43:11.860
I interviewed a wonderful woman named Lorna Byrne. You may have heard of her, she's Irish

00:43:11.860 --> 00:43:18.740
and she's been seeing angels all of her life. She grew up in Ireland, very Catholic upbringing.

00:43:18.740 --> 00:43:22.660
She insisted during the interview that animals don't have souls. And I didn't want to get

00:43:22.660 --> 00:43:29.300
into a big argument with her, but I felt at the time and still do that she probably just

00:43:29.300 --> 00:43:35.300
pick that up from her Catholicism, which I guess they say. I'm not an expert on Catholicism,

00:43:35.300 --> 00:43:41.220
but apparently that's a Christian misbelief that somehow crept into the doctrine. But anyway,

00:43:41.220 --> 00:43:49.540
to address that issue, how about if you try to define what a soul is to the best of your

00:43:49.540 --> 00:43:50.740
understanding and experience?

00:43:50.740 --> 00:43:57.140
Sarah: The soul is, I believe, the part that animates us and that is still very much here

00:43:57.140 --> 00:44:03.460
and very much the same. Some people divide it between spirit, soul, and person, or in

00:44:03.460 --> 00:44:07.860
this case, animal. I believe we have a higher self that kind of is already living in the

00:44:07.860 --> 00:44:13.540
heavenly realm in some ways, and then we have the soul. And different people switch the

00:44:13.540 --> 00:44:16.900
terms. Some people say soul is one and spirit's the other. Some people say spirit's one and

00:44:16.900 --> 00:44:20.940
soul is the other. But just for the purpose of general conversation, the way most people

00:44:20.940 --> 00:44:25.020
communicate it is that the soul is the part that lifts up out of the body when the body

00:44:25.020 --> 00:44:26.020
passes.

00:44:26.020 --> 00:44:29.060
>> Like the dweller in the body, could you say that?

00:44:29.060 --> 00:44:33.660
>> Dweller, yes, the dweller, I like that. And back to what you were saying, yes, I have

00:44:33.660 --> 00:44:38.580
had people come to me in tears after a Catholic priest told them that their beloved pet wouldn't

00:44:38.580 --> 00:44:42.580
go to heaven. And I thought, my goodness, what a horrible thing to say to somebody.

00:44:42.580 --> 00:44:49.460
A man of God, and God is love, and Jesus is love and compassion for all creatures, the

00:44:49.460 --> 00:44:55.580
least of these, so to speak, which in many ways are the greatest of these, in my opinion,

00:44:55.580 --> 00:44:59.260
it's mind-boggling that somebody would say that to somebody. And it's also interesting that one of

00:44:59.260 --> 00:45:05.340
the most famous Catholics that we all know of is St. Francis. And St. Francis was like the original

00:45:05.340 --> 00:45:10.620
animal communicator. And he used to go telepathically with animals and he tamed the wolf.

00:45:10.620 --> 00:45:17.020
And he used to preach the gospel to fish. He'd be out in a boat and the fish would look up above

00:45:17.020 --> 00:45:21.660
the water. And I have a fish rescue, so I often think of that when I'm communicating with the fish.

00:45:22.460 --> 00:45:28.140
he would preach the gospel to them to save their souls. And a really devout Catholic,

00:45:28.140 --> 00:45:33.740
like St. Francis, very evolved soul in many ways, he obviously saw that they had souls that go on,

00:45:33.740 --> 00:45:38.380
or he wouldn't be preaching the gospel to them. Yeah, there's just been so many misinterpretations

00:45:38.380 --> 00:45:44.540
by humans. For ego, I don't know what it is. I really don't, for whatever the reasons are.

00:45:44.540 --> 00:45:48.300
But once compassion is out the door, I think it's time to find a new church or

00:45:48.300 --> 00:45:49.500
a new spiritual teacher.

00:45:49.500 --> 00:45:59.500
Or in your religion, yeah. I suppose that one reason people come up with these ideas is that it helps to absolve them of guilt for the way they treat or mistreat animals.

00:45:59.500 --> 00:46:02.500
Thank you! Yes, that's huge.

00:46:02.500 --> 00:46:17.500
I mean, Descartes, you know, René Descartes, he said animals are like mechanisms, they don't even feel anything, and they would do vivisection on animals, and the screaming of the animal, he would say it was like the squeaking of a machine or something that was going on. Just crazy.

00:46:17.500 --> 00:46:22.660
I just heard a talk the other day where they were debating whether animals are conscious.

00:46:22.660 --> 00:46:28.100
I don't even know what they mean by consciousness because obviously a mouse can see things and

00:46:28.100 --> 00:46:30.260
that necessitates consciousness.

00:46:30.260 --> 00:46:32.780
So people just have funny ideas about things.

00:46:32.780 --> 00:46:35.900
And you're right, I believe it is to justify their own behavior.

00:46:35.900 --> 00:46:42.380
Whether it's an addiction to meat or good money they're making in animal research or

00:46:42.380 --> 00:46:47.580
whatever they believe, or looking for a cure for a nutritionally caused disease rather

00:46:47.580 --> 00:46:52.880
than saving two animals with one mission by not eating those animals in the first place.

00:46:52.880 --> 00:46:57.340
But yeah, I do think finding justification is a big part of it. And it's a shame there

00:46:57.340 --> 00:47:02.100
really is that disconnect. But I understand it. I have compassion even for the people

00:47:02.100 --> 00:47:05.980
who do that because I understand on some level there is some part of them that must feel

00:47:05.980 --> 00:47:11.900
so, so bad about what they're doing. Maybe it's suppressed, or maybe they're a sociopath

00:47:11.900 --> 00:47:15.900
and they don't. But for the other 96%, maybe they feel so bad about what they're doing

00:47:15.900 --> 00:47:21.140
on some level that they've pushed it down and had to build up these justifications to

00:47:21.140 --> 00:47:25.420
find peace with whatever it is they're engaging in that on some level they feel does contribute

00:47:25.420 --> 00:47:28.580
to unnecessary cruelty. And I don't think cruelty is ever necessary.

00:47:28.580 --> 00:47:31.300
Pete: Forgive them, Father, they know not what they do.

00:47:31.300 --> 00:47:32.300
Angela: Yes.

00:47:32.300 --> 00:47:38.500
Pete: Okay, some more on souls. You said something a minute ago that piqued my interest, and

00:47:38.500 --> 00:47:43.380
I've heard this from various sources that it's like we don't even fully incarnate here.

00:47:43.380 --> 00:47:48.940
We maybe incarnate 25% or something and the higher self or some greater part of our soul

00:47:48.940 --> 00:47:54.580
is still in some kind of astral or celestial realm or something and just a small portion

00:47:54.580 --> 00:47:58.100
of it is being represented or animating our body here.

00:47:58.100 --> 00:48:03.040
Some have even said that the soul could actually be in several bodies or at least two or something

00:48:03.040 --> 00:48:07.180
at the same time and yet some of it's still in some higher realm.

00:48:07.180 --> 00:48:12.860
I'm, again, no expert on that particular avenue, but I will say from what I've looked at, that

00:48:12.860 --> 00:48:17.780
does feel like, and just from the stories and the information I've compiled, it feels

00:48:17.780 --> 00:48:23.300
like we all still do have a foot in the other realm, and I do feel that communicating that

00:48:23.300 --> 00:48:24.880
is a higher self.

00:48:24.880 --> 00:48:29.660
The part of us, maybe the wisdom inside of us that helps us, the peace of God within

00:48:29.660 --> 00:48:34.180
us, I don't know if I'm wording that right at all, or the peace of us that is still with

00:48:34.180 --> 00:48:38.660
God maybe is a better way to say it. Even though God's everywhere, God, you know, if you believe

00:48:38.660 --> 00:48:44.180
in the heavenly throne of God, a part of us is there perhaps. Again, I'm not an expert on this,

00:48:44.180 --> 00:48:50.420
it just feels right because I do know that when I did my work, my experimenting with intentional

00:48:50.420 --> 00:48:56.980
out-of-body experience, when I was there, it was me and God or God and me. That was my experience.

00:48:56.980 --> 00:49:00.500
It felt like there was a part of me that had already been there with God.

00:49:01.380 --> 00:49:04.740
some of these things it's hard to put into words, so I'm sorry if I'm stumbling right now a bit.

00:49:04.740 --> 00:49:08.900
Pete I think people get a sense of what you're saying. A related question,

00:49:08.900 --> 00:49:13.460
and this actually came up in my last interview, on the notion of reincarnation, which we've been

00:49:13.460 --> 00:49:19.700
talking about, if all beings have souls and souls reincarnate from one body to another and perhaps

00:49:19.700 --> 00:49:24.820
move up the evolutionary chain and eventually become humans or something, if maybe you don't

00:49:24.820 --> 00:49:31.700
agree with that, but it seems to me that there are a lot more of lower life forms than there

00:49:31.700 --> 00:49:32.780
are higher life forms.

00:49:32.780 --> 00:49:37.740
For instance, here in our yard, there are probably 10,000 earthworms and trillions of

00:49:37.740 --> 00:49:43.140
little bacteria and a lot of bugs and a bunch of birds outside, but there's only two humans

00:49:43.140 --> 00:49:44.140
here.

00:49:44.140 --> 00:49:45.420
And the whole earth is like that.

00:49:45.420 --> 00:49:51.400
So I wonder how the math works out, or whether perhaps as souls evolve, they conglomerate

00:49:51.400 --> 00:49:55.400
just as our body is a collection of trillions of cells, each of which has its own life,

00:49:55.400 --> 00:50:00.560
and perhaps in some sense has its own soul, perhaps souls can conglomerate in order to

00:50:00.560 --> 00:50:02.240
form more complex beings.

00:50:02.240 --> 00:50:04.200
Do you have any thoughts on that?

00:50:04.200 --> 00:50:06.720
That's not something I've looked into a lot.

00:50:06.720 --> 00:50:11.240
I do plan to, because the subject of insects does actually come up a lot, so it's something

00:50:11.240 --> 00:50:16.400
I've only just begun looking into a little bit lately, or, you know, focusing more of

00:50:16.400 --> 00:50:17.800
my attention on.

00:50:17.800 --> 00:50:21.680
But what you're saying I do think does make a lot of sense, and I know a lot of professional

00:50:21.680 --> 00:50:26.440
animal communicators who, they do this full-time, and very respected ones who I've known for

00:50:26.440 --> 00:50:31.500
many, many years, have talked about a group soul, like some species on some level there's

00:50:31.500 --> 00:50:35.740
a group soul that they're all a part of.

00:50:35.740 --> 00:50:39.080
Maybe in the case of like a colony of ants, I'm just...

00:50:39.080 --> 00:50:41.440
Yeah, or hive of bees, or...

00:50:41.440 --> 00:50:42.440
Yeah.

00:50:42.440 --> 00:50:44.040
A swarm of starlings, or...

00:50:44.040 --> 00:50:45.040
Right, yeah.

00:50:45.040 --> 00:50:47.680
Or a colony of bedbugs, I hate to say.

00:50:47.680 --> 00:50:49.680
That's something I recommend

00:50:49.680 --> 00:50:52.320
Life experience I would have preferred to have done without

00:50:52.320 --> 00:50:55.920
Because their only purpose is to suck blood

00:50:55.920 --> 00:50:58.360
That's what they do

00:50:58.360 --> 00:51:05.760
Cartoon there these two dung beetles at the dung beetle bar and they're sitting at the bar and the bartender is also a dung beetle and

00:51:05.760 --> 00:51:12.540
One dung beetle says to the bartender. So Louie, is this all there is to life eat shit and die

00:51:16.040 --> 00:51:20.600
Louis says something like, "Yeah, that's about it."

00:51:20.600 --> 00:51:23.440
That's funny, but yeah, it makes a lot of sense.

00:51:23.440 --> 00:51:27.920
I'm going to just answer this not as an expert, but just as an observer and say that that makes

00:51:27.920 --> 00:51:30.360
a lot of sense to me.

00:51:30.360 --> 00:51:31.600
Remind us of what makes a lot of sense.

00:51:31.600 --> 00:51:32.600
What are we referring to here?

00:51:32.600 --> 00:51:33.600
The conglomeration of souls?

00:51:33.600 --> 00:51:34.600
The conglomeration.

00:51:34.600 --> 00:51:35.600
Right.

00:51:35.600 --> 00:51:38.960
Yeah, like let's say a whole colony of ants decides to do something else next time.

00:51:38.960 --> 00:51:39.960
I don't know.

00:51:39.960 --> 00:51:42.080
I mean, that makes sense because there are a lot of them.

00:51:42.080 --> 00:51:43.080
We are outnumbered.

00:51:43.080 --> 00:51:44.440
And spiders, you know, where do they fit in?

00:51:44.440 --> 00:51:46.940
Alright, we're getting out there a little bit, aren't we?

00:51:46.940 --> 00:51:48.940
A lot of this is very speculative.

00:51:48.940 --> 00:51:53.940
It reminds me of a quote that I heard recently, I've mentioned it in a few interviews.

00:51:53.940 --> 00:51:59.940
It was from Aldous Huxley, and he said that the greatest innovation of the scientific revolution

00:51:59.940 --> 00:52:02.940
was the development of the working hypothesis.

00:52:02.940 --> 00:52:07.940
And I really like that because, you know, prior to the scientific revolution,

00:52:07.940 --> 00:52:11.940
dogmatism dominated society, and people could be burned at the stake

00:52:11.940 --> 00:52:17.220
for disagreeing with the prevailing dogma. And the scientific revolution kind of broke through that.

00:52:17.220 --> 00:52:22.980
Even now, of course, many scientists aren't really scientists because they're dogmatic and they

00:52:22.980 --> 00:52:28.420
refuse to consider certain possibilities as working hypotheses. They just think they know

00:52:28.420 --> 00:52:32.740
what the truth is and won't even look at the evidence for something that contradicts it.

00:52:32.740 --> 00:52:37.540
But personally, I like to try to live my life that way, so anything anybody proposes to me,

00:52:37.540 --> 00:52:44.020
I don't say absolutely or absolutely not. I say interesting, you know, let's see where the evidence lies, you know, how much

00:52:44.020 --> 00:52:47.640
Justification or support is this for this particular idea?

00:52:47.640 --> 00:52:53.220
I like to just it echo on what you said I feel the same way with a lot of things

00:52:53.220 --> 00:52:58.800
I'm open to hearing people's impression or experience and so forth

00:52:58.800 --> 00:53:02.240
And I don't pretend to be an expert on all of this

00:53:02.560 --> 00:53:07.860
I'm I guess considered an expert on just a little piece of it that I have a lot of experience with and

00:53:07.860 --> 00:53:11.340
That kind of wraps down to the more in some ways mundane

00:53:11.340 --> 00:53:13.340
But when we're here on the earth plane

00:53:13.340 --> 00:53:18.520
It's the most profound thing in the world and that is just knowing that those we love and we have these deep

00:53:18.520 --> 00:53:26.340
Love bonds with that that love continues and that that being we love continues. I know that for me when I lost

00:53:27.220 --> 00:53:30.060
Well, I've had a number of really bad losses

00:53:30.060 --> 00:53:36.920
One of the worst things I found that people could say to me bless their hearts out of the goodness of their hearts with something

00:53:36.920 --> 00:53:37.980
like oh

00:53:37.980 --> 00:53:44.460
His spirit is everywhere now or he's among the stars or there's something about the grieving heart that

00:53:44.460 --> 00:53:50.940
Doesn't want to hear that the grieving heart wants to hear that he's still him and he's still around, you know

00:53:50.940 --> 00:53:55.260
And he still remembers me and not only does the grieving heart need to hear that

00:53:55.660 --> 00:54:02.140
But from everything I've seen in my research, that's absolutely true. I mean that is so true

00:54:02.140 --> 00:54:04.200
They do still care about us

00:54:04.200 --> 00:54:09.500
They are still part of our life and we are still part of their life and that bond is not broken at death

00:54:09.500 --> 00:54:13.880
They haven't become some in my opinion. Well, I shouldn't say my opinion. This is my experience

00:54:13.880 --> 00:54:19.020
They haven't become some star or some piece of the universe or whatever. They're still them

00:54:19.020 --> 00:54:23.720
Yeah, I think we really need to hear that while we're here. We need you

00:54:23.720 --> 00:54:28.720
I don't really have any experience like you do but in my bones I feel like that's the way it is

00:54:28.720 --> 00:54:34.140
There's a line from Star Wars where obi-wan Kenobi said to Darth Vader if you strike me down

00:54:34.140 --> 00:54:36.740
I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine

00:54:36.740 --> 00:54:39.900
Which is to say I'm still gonna be around dude

00:54:39.900 --> 00:54:46.120
Yeah, I like it. I love it and it's true and they are still around. I mean, they're so still around

00:54:46.120 --> 00:54:49.520
The stories I could tell what I mean

00:54:50.440 --> 00:54:52.440
For those who don't know I run the rat refuge

00:54:52.440 --> 00:54:56.960
So I've rescued and sanctuary at a lot of rats in my day for those who don't know and thank you

00:54:56.960 --> 00:55:01.880
I could show you some really cute pictures and then that you would quickly turn to all

00:55:01.880 --> 00:55:07.140
But just really quickly to bring those up to speed who don't know. They're like a combination of cats and dogs

00:55:07.140 --> 00:55:09.720
They're very clean and very quiet

00:55:09.720 --> 00:55:11.920
like cats

00:55:11.920 --> 00:55:18.960
But they're super playful and personable like dogs, you know, like pick me up pick me up play with me wrestle, you know

00:55:18.960 --> 00:55:24.280
And they're smart. Very smart. I would say if they were as big as us, they'd probably have

00:55:24.280 --> 00:55:28.960
taken over the world by now. And they're very clean. And just real quick, I always put a plug

00:55:28.960 --> 00:55:33.600
in for the rats because I have gotten some criticism for including rats in my book, but that's a huge

00:55:33.600 --> 00:55:38.960
part of my life story. And actually, it was the death of a rat that precipitated all of my research

00:55:38.960 --> 00:55:43.040
on this and the fact that this book was even written. That's all owed to a rat named June.

00:55:43.760 --> 00:55:45.360
So, acknowledgement to June.

00:55:45.360 --> 00:55:48.720
They preen themselves like cats do, right?

00:55:48.720 --> 00:55:50.160
They do, they do all that. Yeah, yeah.

00:55:50.160 --> 00:55:52.480
Okay, so this was a rat, his name was Mr. William.

00:55:52.480 --> 00:55:56.640
He was very skittish and shy, he came from a very abusive background,

00:55:56.640 --> 00:55:58.080
and so it took him a while to warm up.

00:55:58.080 --> 00:56:01.680
He was always kind of skittish, but toward the end of his life,

00:56:01.680 --> 00:56:07.440
he finally bonded and he learned to trust, and he'd let me pick him up, and he was so sweet.

00:56:07.440 --> 00:56:10.960
And after he passed, sometimes they try to find different ways,

00:56:10.960 --> 00:56:16.880
and his spirit knocked something off the wall, a picture, and it actually broke. And my husband,

00:56:16.880 --> 00:56:21.760
Jameis, he used to always impersonate the, or my late husband, but I will talk about that in

00:56:21.760 --> 00:56:26.960
the future, he used to impersonate the rats, and he'd say, "Ah, I'm sorry, Mom, I didn't mean to

00:56:26.960 --> 00:56:31.680
knock the picture off the wall." And it was really cute. Now, the skeptics listening in are going to

00:56:31.680 --> 00:56:36.160
say, "How do you know the rat knocked the picture off the wall? Pictures fall off walls, you know."

00:56:36.160 --> 00:56:41.840
Right, but the thing is they'll often find something that they did in their life. At least that's been

00:56:41.840 --> 00:56:46.720
my experience. And do it again. And he was the one who was always like knocking things off and

00:56:46.720 --> 00:56:51.120
they would accidentally break. I don't know, it was one of those cute little snippets in life where

00:56:51.120 --> 00:56:57.200
that's exactly what happened even after he passed. He knocked something off and it broke. Stories

00:56:57.200 --> 00:57:03.360
like those are the ones that you have to have a personal experience with. That's why in my research

00:57:03.360 --> 00:57:06.480
I'd like to definitely focus on the stories that are more

00:57:06.480 --> 00:57:12.320
Indisputable for example, I think the most profound stories in that arena would be

00:57:12.320 --> 00:57:14.800
people who witness the actual

00:57:14.800 --> 00:57:15.840
ghost

00:57:15.840 --> 00:57:17.840
Of an animal who has passed

00:57:17.840 --> 00:57:24.240
And they're not grieving themselves because a lot of people will say oh that was a hallucination conjured up by a grieving mind to comfort you

00:57:24.240 --> 00:57:28.880
Okay valid that's valid if someone wants to say that I don't think it's true

00:57:29.280 --> 00:57:35.040
not in my experience, but that's a valid excuse or explaining way. And I can agree with that if that

00:57:35.040 --> 00:57:40.800
were it. But there have been many cases. There's one story in particular, I do believe I cover this

00:57:40.800 --> 00:57:48.080
one in the book. Their dog passed and they hadn't really told many people yet. And a complete

00:57:48.080 --> 00:57:53.120
stranger was visiting in the kitchen, saw this beautiful, I believe it was a golden retriever,

00:57:53.120 --> 00:57:58.400
if I'm not mistaken, if I remember correctly, and was petting the dog. The other person was in the

00:57:58.400 --> 00:58:04.000
shower, came out of the shower, and the visitor said, "Oh, I was just petting your dog. She's

00:58:04.000 --> 00:58:09.360
so beautiful." And then the other person says, "What dog? What do you mean?" And the house

00:58:09.360 --> 00:58:13.280
guest says, "Well, the dog that was just in here," and describes the dog. And the person

00:58:13.280 --> 00:58:17.800
who just got out of the shower says, "Well, that was my dog, but he passed." So that's

00:58:17.800 --> 00:58:24.080
the case where the person seeing it is not grieving, so it can't have been something

00:58:24.080 --> 00:58:28.340
that their grieving mind conjured up because that person didn't even know the dog had

00:58:28.340 --> 00:58:32.980
died and yet they still saw the ghost. And there have been many other cases of this.

00:58:32.980 --> 00:58:38.100
For some people like the skeptics, you need to really look at those stories. Skeptics can write

00:58:38.100 --> 00:58:42.180
a lot of things off like, "Oh, you felt your cat jump on the bed." Well, I wasn't there. I didn't

00:58:42.180 --> 00:58:45.940
feel it. How do I know that's true? Well, personally, I have had that experience. So,

00:58:45.940 --> 00:58:49.860
it's kind of funny because I was compiling stories for many years and people would talk

00:58:49.860 --> 00:58:54.340
about how they'd feel their deceased animal jump on the bed. And so, I'm compiling the stories.

00:58:54.900 --> 00:58:59.540
But then one day, the first time it happened to me, a rat had just passed and then I felt her jump

00:58:59.540 --> 00:59:04.260
like on the bed and go across my leg. And I actually screamed and flinched like, "Ah, what's

00:59:04.260 --> 00:59:09.060
that?" And I had to laugh at myself because I'm like, "Okay, well, I should know what that is by

00:59:09.060 --> 00:59:16.100
now." So I believe that for the skeptics, we need to look at them more in depth, the NDE type stories,

00:59:16.100 --> 00:59:21.780
the third party witness stories where a third party is witnessing the spirit of an animal,

00:59:21.780 --> 00:59:29.300
describing them in depth, and then finding out that that animal has passed. Beyond that, again,

00:59:29.300 --> 00:59:34.100
there's going to be some people who just, even if all the evidence in the world is right in front of

00:59:34.100 --> 00:59:38.820
them of an afterlife for animals or humans, they're going to put their blinders on because for whatever

00:59:38.820 --> 00:59:44.340
reason, I don't know why, I really don't know why, but it's some kind of ego, particularly in the

00:59:44.340 --> 00:59:50.020
scientific community, there's some kind of ego thing. Perhaps it's that if someone's that attached

00:59:50.020 --> 00:59:55.620
to this world, this physical world, and their career, what they've basically created their

00:59:55.620 --> 01:00:01.480
whole identity around as being a "scientist" and their career is in explaining everything

01:00:01.480 --> 01:00:06.340
in this world, then anything that's outside of their realm that they can't explain, that

01:00:06.340 --> 01:00:11.240
they can't wrap around physically, perhaps on some level is a threat to them. And so

01:00:11.240 --> 01:00:15.620
it's easier for them to just dismiss it and dismiss those who have these experiences as

01:00:15.620 --> 01:00:21.620
nut jobs. In some way, I feel sorry for them for that because I think that they're missing

01:00:21.620 --> 01:00:28.080
out on a huge, richly rewarding piece in the tapestry of life. And I think they're completely

01:00:28.080 --> 01:00:33.160
missing out on that. And it kind of hurts my heart to know that they're not having that

01:00:33.160 --> 01:00:37.360
experience. But I also do know that those who have had these experiences, even if they're

01:00:37.360 --> 01:00:41.480
a deeply personal experience and they don't have a third party witness, when you know,

01:00:41.480 --> 01:00:47.480
know and you know that you know. And anyone who has had these experiences know that they're

01:00:47.480 --> 01:00:53.560
real. You feel it, you know it, you see it, you know you're not crazy.

01:00:53.560 --> 01:00:59.720
Another piece of advice I would like to share is not to let anyone talk you out of it. If

01:00:59.720 --> 01:01:05.160
you have a profoundly meaningful experience of visitation, I don't care if it's from a

01:01:05.160 --> 01:01:12.600
a departed human, a beloved animal, an angel, or whoever. Don't let someone talk you out of it.

01:01:12.600 --> 01:01:17.160
They weren't there. Maybe on some level they're jealous or I don't know what. They have their

01:01:17.160 --> 01:01:22.600
story. But those of us who do have these mystical experiences need to never allow others to talk us

01:01:22.600 --> 01:01:28.440
out of them because it's a real gift. And many times when someone's grieving, these experiences

01:01:28.440 --> 01:01:33.000
happen when we need them the most. And again, going back to what I said earlier, what kind of

01:01:33.000 --> 01:01:39.000
a spiritual leader, teacher, counselor, or friend, or family member, whoever, what kind of a person

01:01:39.000 --> 01:01:44.760
would kick someone when they're down and tell them what they experienced didn't happen? In my opinion,

01:01:44.760 --> 01:01:49.400
that's not someone you want to be spending time with. Yeah. Cast you not your pearls before a

01:01:49.400 --> 01:01:56.120
swine. I mean, you have to be careful who you say things to. Yes, it's true. It's true. And I will

01:01:56.120 --> 01:02:00.760
say, you know, when my book first came out, I started writing it when I was very young. It's

01:02:00.760 --> 01:02:05.320
a long time ago. There weren't mediums on TV or professional, none of this was really known back

01:02:05.320 --> 01:02:11.720
then. And I was very sensitive, you know, and I was picked on in school and it was hard.

01:02:11.720 --> 01:02:14.920
You weren't writing your book when you were in school, you mean picked on because you were

01:02:14.920 --> 01:02:18.520
sensitive in general. For other things, yeah, for other things, for being skinny or pale or

01:02:18.520 --> 01:02:22.760
whatever the thing was at the time, being smart, whatever it was that made people hate me, I don't

01:02:22.760 --> 01:02:29.400
know. But yeah, so I was already a traumatized person and I will tell you, it was terrifying

01:02:29.400 --> 01:02:34.920
to put this into a book and to put it out there and then to brace myself for reviews. You know,

01:02:34.920 --> 01:02:38.200
someone will flippantly read a few chapters, see something they don't like, and then write a

01:02:38.200 --> 01:02:44.920
scathing review. And they never think about the person who spent years of their life researching,

01:02:44.920 --> 01:02:49.960
staying up all night at the computer, putting this thing together to try to inform and help others.

01:02:49.960 --> 01:02:53.560
And then someone can just so flippantly find something they don't like and write it off.

01:02:53.560 --> 01:02:57.960
And so I had to really brace myself for that. It was scary at first. At this point,

01:02:57.960 --> 01:03:02.920
I'm kind of the point where I think life has beaten me up enough that I've had to,

01:03:02.920 --> 01:03:08.760
the best I can for an HSP, do the best I can to create kind of a thick skin and to know that

01:03:08.760 --> 01:03:15.000
I have my God-given purpose and if I can help one person, then all of it will have been worth it.

01:03:15.000 --> 01:03:19.640
Or if I can help one animal, it will all have been worth it. And I'm just doing my part.

01:03:19.640 --> 01:03:25.400
I met President Obama one time and shook his hand and I said, "We love you. Don't let the

01:03:25.400 --> 01:03:29.400
turkeys get you down?" And he laughed and he said, "There's a lot of them out there. They

01:03:29.400 --> 01:03:36.200
just keep on gobbling." There's a quote from Mark Twain, he said, "Don't argue with idiots.

01:03:36.200 --> 01:03:39.560
They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience."

01:03:39.560 --> 01:03:44.040
That's funny, yeah. And I always tell the turkeys not to let the people let them down.

01:03:44.040 --> 01:03:51.160
Right, good point. I was listening to a discussion one time between Sean Carroll,

01:03:51.160 --> 01:03:56.200
who's a very brilliant physicist and has a nice podcast about science, and a guy named B. Alan

01:03:56.200 --> 01:04:01.320
Wallace, who's a Buddhist teacher. And at one point, Sean Carroll said to B. Alan Wallace,

01:04:01.320 --> 01:04:06.440
"When you die, that's it. End of story. There's nothing after that. Nothing happens." And he said

01:04:06.440 --> 01:04:12.120
it with such adamant certainty that B. Alan Wallace could only scratch his head and say something like,

01:04:12.120 --> 01:04:19.160
"Okay, if you say so." It's like, again, this point I made earlier, if a person is so cocksure,

01:04:19.160 --> 01:04:25.800
if they take an opinion and make it an adamant assertion, they're not a scientist, at least

01:04:25.800 --> 01:04:31.640
in that regard or in that instance, because science has to always be open to the possibility

01:04:31.640 --> 01:04:34.360
that new evidence can change one's understanding.

01:04:34.360 --> 01:04:40.240
Thank you. Thank you. It's interesting and true that you would say that because scientists,

01:04:40.240 --> 01:04:45.480
in my experience, are often the most closed-minded among us. And like you're saying, how can

01:04:45.480 --> 01:04:50.200
knowledge or true wisdom, how can any of that move forward if someone already has a wall up,

01:04:50.200 --> 01:04:55.080
an area they're not even willing to go in? And it's sad. And I think perhaps that's a big part

01:04:55.080 --> 01:05:00.600
of what has held science back is that closed-mindedness. And that's something that

01:05:00.600 --> 01:05:06.040
really in school they should be taught open-mindedness. And I understand again,

01:05:06.040 --> 01:05:11.400
because I am a thinker-analyzer type, personality type, so I understand that needing to see evidence

01:05:11.400 --> 01:05:17.160
and so forth, but you have to be open to it in the first place, for sure. And then not write it off

01:05:17.160 --> 01:05:20.840
or dismiss it when you do see a little inkling that, "Oh, boy, there's something there that I

01:05:20.840 --> 01:05:25.720
don't believe in," and just put the blinders back on. Maybe that's easier, but it's not,

01:05:25.720 --> 01:05:27.880
ultimately it isn't, I think. I think it's sad.

01:05:27.880 --> 01:05:33.960
Pete: There's something in the UK called the Science and Medical Network, and a branch of

01:05:33.960 --> 01:05:38.600
it called the Galileo Commission, and they named it that because church authorities refused to

01:05:38.600 --> 01:05:43.400
to look through Galileo's telescope because they said Jupiter can't have moons because

01:05:43.400 --> 01:05:48.040
for some reason that conflicted with church doctrine, don't ask me why. And so they said,

01:05:48.040 --> 01:05:52.440
"So we're not even going to bother to look." Again, we're just kind of beating up on scientists

01:05:52.440 --> 01:05:56.800
here, but it's not a scientific attitude to say something like that. I'm going to interview

01:05:56.800 --> 01:06:03.400
a guy two weeks from now who's high up in that organization who is also really into the Theosophical

01:06:03.400 --> 01:06:10.000
society and he was telling a story about how some scientist had discovered something and

01:06:10.000 --> 01:06:15.900
it was completely in contrast to his established belief and research.

01:06:15.900 --> 01:06:18.200
And so the person said, "Well, what are you going to do with it?"

01:06:18.200 --> 01:06:19.560
He said, "I'm not going to do anything.

01:06:19.560 --> 01:06:23.480
I'm going to bury it because if this got out, it would undermine my whole career."

01:06:23.480 --> 01:06:24.480
Wow.

01:06:24.480 --> 01:06:25.480
Wow.

01:06:25.480 --> 01:06:30.320
Yeah, you know, and I've had that kind of experience even with medical doctors with "I

01:06:30.320 --> 01:06:31.560
can't say cure.

01:06:31.560 --> 01:06:35.320
illegal to cure anything unless you're a medical doctor, but let's say having someone's disease

01:06:35.320 --> 01:06:40.920
suddenly not be there anymore. I've had medical doctors say to me, "Okay, well, don't tell me

01:06:40.920 --> 01:06:47.080
what you did, but keep doing it." Because then they'd have to be responsible for it.

01:06:47.080 --> 01:06:51.240
I guess there's a moral dilemma in some cases, like, "Okay, well, they're not legally allowed

01:06:51.240 --> 01:06:56.520
to tell their other patients these things. So if they don't know, then they're kind of off the hook.

01:06:56.520 --> 01:06:59.400
If they know, then all of a sudden they're accountable.

01:06:59.400 --> 01:07:04.120
I will say though, just to wrap up on the scientist thing and not to beat up on all of them, I

01:07:04.120 --> 01:07:11.520
do also have some good friends who are scientists and who are also closet believers and believe

01:07:11.520 --> 01:07:12.520
in a lot of this stuff.

01:07:12.520 --> 01:07:18.160
In fact, I remember one of my friends, Madeline, she was an amazing woman, very scientific,

01:07:18.160 --> 01:07:20.520
very esteemed, very brilliant.

01:07:20.520 --> 01:07:24.560
And I gave her a copy of my book when it had come out recently.

01:07:24.560 --> 01:07:29.200
She told me later, she said, "Well, I wasn't going to tell you this, but I came at it, you

01:07:29.200 --> 01:07:34.040
know, because I love you, and I thought, 'Okay, I'll give this a read because I love her, but

01:07:34.040 --> 01:07:38.200
I'm going to be able to see through all of this and find holes in the whole thing.'"

01:07:38.200 --> 01:07:43.080
But I came through the end of that book, and by the end, I was like, "I believe!"

01:07:43.080 --> 01:07:49.440
That meant so much to me to hear that from my most stiff, scientific friend I know.

01:07:49.440 --> 01:07:52.120
And she came away thinking, "Okay, there's something here."

01:07:52.120 --> 01:07:57.320
One thing about your book is that there are hundreds of stories, hundreds of examples,

01:07:57.320 --> 01:07:58.680
and you have them all categorized.

01:07:58.680 --> 01:08:03.560
I might read some of the categories and have you give us an example or two from each one.

01:08:03.560 --> 01:08:06.120
That's kind of the way science works, too.

01:08:06.120 --> 01:08:10.760
One example of something is just a fluke, it's an anomaly, but once there are dozens

01:08:10.760 --> 01:08:17.560
and hundreds of them, then you're building a case that really is hard to dismiss.

01:08:17.560 --> 01:08:19.160
Thank you, and that is why I did that.

01:08:19.160 --> 01:08:22.000
That's why, I mean, the original version of my book, believe it or not, was over a thousand

01:08:22.000 --> 01:08:23.000
pages.

01:08:23.000 --> 01:08:24.000
Wow.

01:08:24.000 --> 01:08:26.560
So I spent a year just editing it down to a reasonable size.

01:08:26.560 --> 01:08:32.440
And that was my reasoning for having that many stories is exactly what you're saying.

01:08:32.440 --> 01:08:37.640
That was my exact intention, to build a case, to show that these aren't just random one-ups.

01:08:37.640 --> 01:08:42.960
This is a real phenomenon and these are real, real experiences that people are having.

01:08:42.960 --> 01:08:47.280
Well, I know you have to drive to Arizona after this and you didn't get much sleep last

01:08:47.280 --> 01:08:51.760
So I don't want to keep you too long, but if we could, I'll read you some chapter titles,

01:08:51.760 --> 01:08:57.520
and maybe you could just give us some highlights of what that chapter is about, if you remember.

01:08:57.520 --> 01:09:03.120
I mean, you wrote this book years ago. For instance, asking the animals, asking them what?

01:09:03.120 --> 01:09:09.680
That's animal communicators, calling an animal communicator, someone who's gifted in telepathically

01:09:09.680 --> 01:09:14.160
communicating and finding out what the animal has to say. And if you've never done that,

01:09:14.160 --> 01:09:19.040
it's a really amazing experience. We have done that. I didn't just do one, I had to test them. So I'd

01:09:19.040 --> 01:09:23.200
call like a dozen different animal communicators, not tell them that I was calling the others,

01:09:23.200 --> 01:09:27.120
asking the same question and making sure they're all giving me the same data. And when they did,

01:09:27.120 --> 01:09:30.640
time and time again, I'm like, okay, what are the odds that they're all making the same thing up?

01:09:30.640 --> 01:09:36.240
Yeah, I think the first time we called an animal communicator, it might've been the first time,

01:09:36.240 --> 01:09:42.320
we had adopted this dog. My wife worked for the local no-kill animal shelter for about eight years

01:09:42.320 --> 01:09:47.440
doing dog adoptions and there was a dog that she particularly liked that we named Shanti.

01:09:47.440 --> 01:09:53.200
And the first time Shanti really spent time with us was we took her on a camping trip

01:09:53.200 --> 01:09:57.280
and we had this pop-up and there were these little metal steps to the pop-up that she had to

01:09:57.280 --> 01:10:02.640
climb up to get into it. And then we went back home eventually and we were in a duplex that didn't have

01:10:02.640 --> 01:10:07.600
any steps so they just walked right in the front door. But Irene was talking to this animal

01:10:07.600 --> 01:10:11.040
communicator and perhaps she can correct me if I'm not getting the story totally right,

01:10:11.040 --> 01:10:16.400
but Shanti conveyed through the animal communicator that she liked her little home that we had her

01:10:16.400 --> 01:10:20.560
in where she had to go up these steps. Three steps, which is how many steps there were to

01:10:20.560 --> 01:10:25.360
the pop-up, right? Did I get that right? She was proud of herself for going up the steps.

01:10:25.360 --> 01:10:29.840
That's so beautiful. That's so sweet. Yeah, they're just like us. They're proud and they

01:10:29.840 --> 01:10:35.200
want mom and dad or whoever to know they did a good thing. Okay. Obviously, there's lots of

01:10:35.200 --> 01:10:38.320
stories in every chapter, but we're going to skip through them. So, bridging heaven and earth,

01:10:38.320 --> 01:10:40.560
What are some aspects of that one?

01:10:40.560 --> 01:10:43.680
>> Those are stories about professional mediums.

01:10:43.680 --> 01:10:48.760
And I went and saw all the famous mediums in the day, and time and again, they all said

01:10:48.760 --> 01:10:52.680
there would be at least one, if not a number of animals who would come through with messages

01:10:52.680 --> 01:10:55.560
for their people during a group reading, for example.

01:10:55.560 --> 01:10:57.900
Yeah, and that's across the board.

01:10:57.900 --> 01:11:02.720
People want to know this, and people are always so moved when they get a message from a dog

01:11:02.720 --> 01:11:05.280
or a cat or whatever kind of animal.

01:11:05.280 --> 01:11:10.240
I will say even that I was at a Christian NDE conference, and there they said the same thing,

01:11:10.240 --> 01:11:14.360
the number one thing people want to know is are animals in heaven, and they're like, "Yeah,

01:11:14.360 --> 01:11:15.360
absolutely."

01:11:15.360 --> 01:11:16.360
So that's pretty universal.

01:11:16.360 --> 01:11:19.520
We all love our pets, regardless of what religion somebody is.

01:11:19.520 --> 01:11:20.520
Great.

01:11:20.520 --> 01:11:23.520
Let's see, there and back.

01:11:23.520 --> 01:11:25.800
Those are people who've had NDEs.

01:11:25.800 --> 01:11:27.280
People or animals?

01:11:27.280 --> 01:11:28.280
People.

01:11:28.280 --> 01:11:32.880
I had trouble compiling animal stories of NDEs, although in the book, too, if it ever

01:11:32.880 --> 01:11:36.160
sees the light of day, which it eventually will. Life kind of took me in other directions for a

01:11:36.160 --> 01:11:41.760
while. These are humans when they're on the other side who saw either their beloved pets or other

01:11:41.760 --> 01:11:46.720
animals like farm animals or whatnot in the afterlife, in the other realm. It's all of the

01:11:46.720 --> 01:11:52.000
compelling, really indisputable evidence that supports an NDE happening to begin with, but then

01:11:52.000 --> 01:11:57.200
when they have their temporary encounter with the other side, they see animals there. And sometimes

01:11:57.200 --> 01:12:01.680
this third beloved pet who died in the past, just greeting them and letting them know they're okay.

01:12:01.680 --> 01:12:06.280
There's one animal communicator in my book, wonderful lady Sharon Callahan, and her departed

01:12:06.280 --> 01:12:11.600
cat was there during her NDE and actually gave her information on creating flower essences

01:12:11.600 --> 01:12:15.200
and going in a whole new career path when she returned from her NDE.

01:12:15.200 --> 01:12:16.200
So, they're wise beings.

01:12:16.200 --> 01:12:17.200
Rick Yeah, that's interesting.

01:12:17.200 --> 01:12:23.080
We were talking earlier about how there's perhaps so much more to our potential than

01:12:23.080 --> 01:12:28.280
actually gets embodied in this life, and I suppose that may be true of animals also,

01:12:28.280 --> 01:12:32.640
there's much more wisdom to them than they can easily express through their little animal

01:12:32.640 --> 01:12:33.640
body, you think?

01:12:33.640 --> 01:12:36.640
>> Yes, absolutely. That's my experience for sure.

01:12:36.640 --> 01:12:37.640
>> Yeah.

01:12:37.640 --> 01:12:38.960
>> Yes, yes, for sure.

01:12:38.960 --> 01:12:43.240
>> I interviewed this Swedish woman named Emily Kajdatter, and she was telling me things

01:12:43.240 --> 01:12:48.700
about communicating with chickens and trees and all kinds of beings where they were conveying

01:12:48.700 --> 01:12:53.120
information to her that was way beyond the scope of what you'd think a chicken could

01:12:53.120 --> 01:12:55.280
communicate or a tree.

01:12:55.280 --> 01:12:58.280
Yes, I've had that experience as well.

01:12:58.280 --> 01:13:01.180
And there have been animals also on the other side who have saved people's lives, like they'll

01:13:01.180 --> 01:13:04.400
come through with a message like, "Change your tire," you know, "Fix your tire, your

01:13:04.400 --> 01:13:05.920
tire is bald," or whatever.

01:13:05.920 --> 01:13:08.400
So they're actually literally looking out for us.

01:13:08.400 --> 01:13:09.400
Interesting.

01:13:09.400 --> 01:13:10.400
Cool.

01:13:10.400 --> 01:13:12.920
Okay, did I do Heavenly Visitors?

01:13:12.920 --> 01:13:14.000
No.

01:13:14.000 --> 01:13:16.880
I'm embarrassed to say I don't remember which stories I put in that chapter.

01:13:16.880 --> 01:13:17.880
Oh, that's okay.

01:13:17.880 --> 01:13:18.880
Let's go on to another one.

01:13:18.880 --> 01:13:20.360
A Touch of Heaven.

01:13:20.360 --> 01:13:23.360
A Touch of Heaven, that's when people feel like, very common.

01:13:23.360 --> 01:13:26.960
I've had it with people and animals touching me after they've passed.

01:13:26.960 --> 01:13:31.600
Whether touch, if it's a person, they often touch the back of your head or you feel a hug.

01:13:31.600 --> 01:13:34.920
If it's an animal, many times you'll feel them walk across your foot, which I have with

01:13:34.920 --> 01:13:37.160
rats, or people will feel them jump on the bed.

01:13:37.160 --> 01:13:41.040
And a lot of times people, you know, you're half asleep and then you wake up and you feel

01:13:41.040 --> 01:13:44.600
your dog on your bed and you're like, "Okay, yeah, there's Fido or whoever."

01:13:44.600 --> 01:13:47.120
Because there's always this moment, and I've had this many times when grieving, you have

01:13:47.120 --> 01:13:50.680
this moment when you first wake up that you forget that you're grieving and you forget

01:13:50.680 --> 01:13:55.400
that this love of your life passed, and then you have that moment where you remember, "He's

01:13:55.400 --> 01:13:56.400
dead!

01:13:56.400 --> 01:13:57.400
Well, then who's on my foot?"

01:13:57.400 --> 01:13:58.400
You know?

01:13:58.400 --> 01:14:00.080
So, yeah, there's a lot of stories like that.

01:14:00.080 --> 01:14:01.080
It's very common.

01:14:01.080 --> 01:14:07.360
>>Rick We had a beloved cat that died, and we both heard the cat meowing as we were kind

01:14:07.360 --> 01:14:08.480
of drifting off to sleep.

01:14:08.480 --> 01:14:12.080
I think in the gap, you know, between waking and sleeping, you're more receptive or more

01:14:12.080 --> 01:14:14.320
open, and it would wake us up.

01:14:14.320 --> 01:14:15.320
We were like, "Where?

01:14:15.320 --> 01:14:16.320
Where is she?"

01:14:16.320 --> 01:14:19.880
You know, but she had passed, and there were no other cats around, and we were just in a

01:14:19.880 --> 01:14:23.560
no neighbors had cats or anything. Yeah, so real, real experience as you know.

01:14:23.560 --> 01:14:29.480
How about music to my ears? That's hearing them. That's another like I just said.

01:14:29.480 --> 01:14:33.560
Exactly. Yes, you had a premonition where you're going to say that one next.

01:14:33.560 --> 01:14:37.800
That's a really common one too. I've had that experience. In fact, when I was writing the book,

01:14:37.800 --> 01:14:42.120
I would hear other people's pets that started happening later is I would hear other people's

01:14:42.120 --> 01:14:47.320
pets, either a certain growly noise in the right ear or a certain really distinct meow.

01:14:47.320 --> 01:14:52.120
and then like immediately their person would call me saying their pet passed, they wanted some

01:14:52.120 --> 01:14:56.200
comfort and I would describe what I just heard like, "Oh my god, that's how I used to make this

01:14:56.200 --> 01:15:01.880
little snarly noise" or whatever. It's very common to hear it, a meow or a bark or whatnot, super

01:15:01.880 --> 01:15:07.320
common. And I don't think it's just conditioning like you've heard a meow a million times and then

01:15:07.320 --> 01:15:11.960
you're recollecting it like you might have some song running through your head that you've heard

01:15:11.960 --> 01:15:17.640
during the day. It seems to be more substantial than that, not just some conditioned thing.

01:15:17.640 --> 01:15:22.440
- It's really them. Yeah, yeah. I agree. And I know that one time my alarm didn't go off for

01:15:22.440 --> 01:15:27.320
whatever reason, and I had an important something to do with the book, and I heard a dog bark in my

01:15:27.320 --> 01:15:31.720
ears so clearly, and it woke me out of a sound sleep. Just exactly when the alarm was supposed

01:15:31.720 --> 01:15:35.880
to go off. Like, okay, well, they're looking out for... They know I'm trying to be a voice for them

01:15:35.880 --> 01:15:40.360
with my book, so they're looking out for me. And I do think maybe me being an intermediary

01:15:40.360 --> 01:15:46.280
and having people's pets often meow or bark or whatever to me, right before they called me or

01:15:46.280 --> 01:15:52.120
emailed me, was their pet's way of letting them know through a third party that this wasn't just

01:15:52.120 --> 01:15:55.320
their imagination, they're really hearing it. Because I'm hearing it, I didn't even know the

01:15:55.320 --> 01:16:01.480
animal. The heaven scent was smelling them, right? Yes, you got it. And that's pretty common too,

01:16:01.480 --> 01:16:06.360
smelling their shampoo or their fur or whatever, like all of a sudden, and I've had this experience,

01:16:06.360 --> 01:16:11.960
also angelic encounters, that usually smells like flowers. But when you have a loved one,

01:16:11.960 --> 01:16:16.200
and I had that with my grandfather, I smelled his cologne after he passed, and there's nothing in

01:16:16.200 --> 01:16:19.960
the house that could have accounted for that. Other people will smell like their cigar, if it's

01:16:19.960 --> 01:16:24.680
a human. If it's an animal, many times it'll be their shampoo or whatever their fur smelled like.

01:16:24.680 --> 01:16:25.400
Very common.

01:16:25.400 --> 01:16:28.120
- Okay. When seeing is believing.

01:16:28.120 --> 01:16:34.600
- That's when you actually see a ghost, so to speak, a spirit of the departed pet. It's not

01:16:34.600 --> 01:16:41.000
scary. It's really cool. I will say those aren't as common as the other types. I do think that it's

01:16:41.000 --> 01:16:47.720
more difficult for us in this realm. We live in a very physical and usually, unless God forbid

01:16:47.720 --> 01:16:53.160
somebody's blind, a very visual world. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if a blind person would

01:16:53.160 --> 01:16:57.480
be more likely to see that because they don't have these so-called blinders that we put on when we're

01:16:57.480 --> 01:17:03.160
awake. So it's less common, but it does happen. And again, the ones that are the most compelling

01:17:03.160 --> 01:17:08.200
for skeptics are the ones where other people see these animals and then find out they died.

01:17:08.200 --> 01:17:09.720
Like that story you mentioned?

01:17:09.720 --> 01:17:09.960
Yes.

01:17:09.960 --> 01:17:12.920
Okay. Visions of the other side.

01:17:12.920 --> 01:17:19.240
These are visions, often they're waking visions. I've had visions myself. All of a sudden it's like

01:17:19.240 --> 01:17:23.160
you're awake, it's the middle of the day, you're not asleep, but it's almost like a dream kind of

01:17:23.160 --> 01:17:30.200
takes over your visual field and you will see the other realm. And it's kind of hard to describe if

01:17:30.200 --> 01:17:34.200
you haven't had it, but I've compiled stories of others who have had these visions where they will

01:17:34.200 --> 01:17:40.920
see their cat or whatever, kind of almost going through a portal and then entering this light

01:17:40.920 --> 01:17:46.920
realm, which is they're heading to the afterlife. So, those are relatively common as well. Waking

01:17:46.920 --> 01:17:50.920
dreams might be another way to put it. Yeah. Sweet dreams. Speaking of dreams,

01:17:50.920 --> 01:17:55.240
is the name of the next chapter sweet dreams? Those are getting context when you're fully

01:17:55.240 --> 01:18:00.200
asleep. And those are common. And somehow you know, again, you know that you know, they feel

01:18:00.200 --> 01:18:06.760
different than regular dreams. And in that chapter, I share one experience where I have a profound

01:18:06.760 --> 01:18:14.120
contact dream from a departed animal. So profound, it wakes me up. And in that moment, I heard my

01:18:14.120 --> 01:18:18.360
late husband making a noise. I thought maybe he was having a nightmare or something. So I woke him

01:18:18.360 --> 01:18:22.040
up. And I said, "Are you okay? Do you have a nightmare?" He said, "No, no, Henry, he just

01:18:22.040 --> 01:18:25.720
appeared to me it was so clear and he started describing it and it was exactly what I had

01:18:25.720 --> 01:18:28.200
just dreamed. So the chance of that... You were both being the same thing.

01:18:28.200 --> 01:18:32.680
They were both contacted by him at the same time or like right bam bam and there's a lot

01:18:32.680 --> 01:18:36.680
of experiences like that. So yeah I don't want people to, maybe I'm not wording it right,

01:18:36.680 --> 01:18:40.920
but it's important to me to let people know that not to just dismiss contacts in dreams

01:18:40.920 --> 01:18:44.360
because they're very real and many times that's the easiest way they can contact us

01:18:44.360 --> 01:18:49.000
because our waking blinders are all put away and we are more open and more receptive.

01:18:49.000 --> 01:18:51.400
I love dreams dreams are the most interesting part of my day

01:18:51.400 --> 01:18:53.560
I don't try to remember them

01:18:53.560 --> 01:18:57.720
But ever if I wake up in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom, it's like i'll find myself

01:18:57.720 --> 01:19:02.140
Chuckling and amazed at the whole adventure i've just been having it's fascinating

01:19:02.140 --> 01:19:07.000
Yeah, it's awesome. It's great. And there's a lot of things we do in dreams. We travel we learn

01:19:07.000 --> 01:19:11.240
We work things out now. I do want to point this out for those who are grieving

01:19:11.240 --> 01:19:15.640
Sometimes we work things out or we go through our our fears and our traumas and so forth in dreams

01:19:15.720 --> 01:19:19.960
So every dream, like if we have a negative dream about a departed loved one or an animal,

01:19:19.960 --> 01:19:23.320
that doesn't mean that it's something we need to hang our hat on.

01:19:23.320 --> 01:19:25.920
That's our mind working through our trauma or whatnot.

01:19:25.920 --> 01:19:32.320
But when you have one of the contact dreams where you know that you know those are real

01:19:32.320 --> 01:19:34.480
and you know, when you have one, you know.

01:19:34.480 --> 01:19:35.480
You can tell the difference.

01:19:35.480 --> 01:19:40.920
Yeah, some dreams are just kind of hallucinatory and others are more like cognitions or something.

01:19:40.920 --> 01:19:41.920
Yes.

01:19:41.920 --> 01:19:44.780
Okay, signs and messages.

01:19:44.780 --> 01:19:47.340
So those are various signs that a lot of people get.

01:19:47.340 --> 01:19:52.220
You know, you hear about pennies from heaven or people seeing feathers or butterflies.

01:19:52.220 --> 01:19:53.220
There are a lot of very common signs.

01:19:53.220 --> 01:19:54.220
>> Suzanne Geisman, remember?

01:19:54.220 --> 01:19:55.580
Do you ever hear her story?

01:19:55.580 --> 01:19:56.580
>> Yes, yes.

01:19:56.580 --> 01:20:00.300
Yeah, those are very common and very comforting for people.

01:20:00.300 --> 01:20:04.220
>> And probably not that hard to organize from the other side, you know, just making

01:20:04.220 --> 01:20:08.460
little things happen, making butterflies or feathers or whatever show up in improbable

01:20:08.460 --> 01:20:09.460
ways.

01:20:09.460 --> 01:20:10.860
>> Totally, or lights going on and off.

01:20:10.860 --> 01:20:11.860
Those are all very common.

01:20:11.860 --> 01:20:18.220
There's a guy named Jeffrey Mishlove who does an interview show called "New Thinking

01:20:18.220 --> 01:20:24.620
Aloud" and he recently won a half million dollar prize for an essay on the existence

01:20:24.620 --> 01:20:29.640
of consciousness after death, you know, a kind of continuation of consciousness or the fundamental

01:20:29.640 --> 01:20:30.640
nature of consciousness.

01:20:30.640 --> 01:20:37.500
And he had a whole section of that essay where there were examples of sounds of deceased

01:20:37.500 --> 01:20:42.460
people showing up on radios or in recordings or something like that. There's another guy named

01:20:42.460 --> 01:20:47.260
Mark Pitsdick whom I interviewed. He's working with this guy at the University of Arizona,

01:20:47.260 --> 01:20:50.940
Tucson, to create what they call a "soul phone" where they can actually communicate.

01:20:50.940 --> 01:20:51.580
Yes.

01:20:51.580 --> 01:20:52.300
Have you known that guy?

01:20:52.300 --> 01:20:54.380
I'm on his email list. Yeah, that's awesome.

01:20:54.380 --> 01:20:59.020
It's a little primitive in terms of what you actually hear, but it's not just static.

01:20:59.020 --> 01:21:03.420
They're picking up information that is worth investigating.

01:21:03.420 --> 01:21:07.260
It's real and I did touch briefly on evp electronic voice phenomenon in my book

01:21:07.260 --> 01:21:11.900
With a cat like actually the cat who warned the woman about the bald tires that was through an evp

01:21:11.900 --> 01:21:17.740
There was an evp unbeknownst till they were playing the recording of the medium reading where the the cat is telling the woman

01:21:17.740 --> 01:21:20.140
To change her tires so she doesn't get an accident

01:21:20.140 --> 01:21:23.100
And then when you play it back you hear her cat meowing on the tape

01:21:23.100 --> 01:21:26.780
There's another time when I was doing a tv interview actually for a local news station

01:21:26.780 --> 01:21:33.100
And they they all called me excited the news, you know, the reporter and so forth afterwards. They listen to this

01:21:33.100 --> 01:21:37.500
While we were interviewing you, you can hear the dog barking.

01:21:37.500 --> 01:21:41.260
There's no dog anywhere, you know, there was no dog on the property in Acres and Acres.

01:21:41.260 --> 01:21:42.260
Interesting.

01:21:42.260 --> 01:21:45.860
Okay, how about this one, Sweet Reunions?

01:21:45.860 --> 01:21:48.780
That is about reincarnation.

01:21:48.780 --> 01:21:53.420
You mentioned some stories of a rat you had that you were quite sure came back to you

01:21:53.420 --> 01:21:57.460
as another rat, and there was reasons to believe it was the same rat.

01:21:57.460 --> 01:21:58.460
Yes, yes.

01:21:58.460 --> 01:21:59.460
And the same soul.

01:21:59.460 --> 01:22:02.700
Yes, the same behaviors, and there's so many stories of this.

01:22:02.700 --> 01:22:06.460
I've had many experiences myself and then there was a woman who had this experience when she

01:22:06.460 --> 01:22:10.040
was with a dog and all of a sudden she looked at her dog like she just knew that that was

01:22:10.040 --> 01:22:11.440
her former dog who had passed.

01:22:11.440 --> 01:22:13.320
She just recognized him.

01:22:13.320 --> 01:22:17.120
I don't remember his particular quirks, but there are so many stories where that dog will

01:22:17.120 --> 01:22:22.360
bury that bone or that toy or whatever in a very certain spot that no other dog in the

01:22:22.360 --> 01:22:24.280
household ever does.

01:22:24.280 --> 01:22:27.820
There is a story of a cat who used to be a dog, the dog came back as a cat and he'd hang

01:22:27.820 --> 01:22:31.000
his head out the window and act like a dog.

01:22:31.000 --> 01:22:32.360
Those are very heartwarming stories.

01:22:32.360 --> 01:22:36.500
Again, that's the topic I've probably gotten the most criticism for, which is kind of funny

01:22:36.500 --> 01:22:41.040
because all I'm saying is God loves you so much, he's sending your loved one back for

01:22:41.040 --> 01:22:42.040
a little more time.

01:22:42.040 --> 01:22:43.040
How's that, evil?

01:22:43.040 --> 01:22:46.600
Well, as you were saying that, I was thinking, yeah, I bet you the critics have a field day

01:22:46.600 --> 01:22:51.800
with this one, you know, because, you know, how could there be anything so distinctive

01:22:51.800 --> 01:22:53.720
about a rat's behavior?

01:22:53.720 --> 01:22:58.480
Rats are rats and you're reading a lot into it if you think this rat is the reincarnation

01:22:58.480 --> 01:22:59.840
of some previous rat.

01:22:59.840 --> 01:23:05.680
if you read your book, you get the impression that these animals have extremely distinctive

01:23:05.680 --> 01:23:12.480
personalities. Absolutely. Quirks and habits and whatnot that are very convincing. Very convincing,

01:23:12.480 --> 01:23:18.240
yeah. And again, this is all coming from myself, who's inherently a skeptic and needs to. And again,

01:23:18.240 --> 01:23:22.240
that's again why there's so many stories. I was convincing myself just as much as the next person

01:23:22.240 --> 01:23:26.240
in the early days of my research. And then when it started happening to me more and more, it's like,

01:23:26.240 --> 01:23:29.040
like, "Okay, I can't dispute that."

01:23:29.040 --> 01:23:31.560
The journey continues.

01:23:31.560 --> 01:23:35.400
There's a quote from Werner Von Braun in the beginning of it, "Everything science has taught

01:23:35.400 --> 01:23:39.480
me and continues to teach me strengthens my belief in the continuity of our spiritual

01:23:39.480 --> 01:23:41.280
existence after death.

01:23:41.280 --> 01:23:43.000
Nothing disappears without a trace."

01:23:43.000 --> 01:23:44.880
That's probably the gist of the chapter.

01:23:44.880 --> 01:23:47.880
You're just talking about how we carry on.

01:23:47.880 --> 01:23:49.920
We carry on, for sure.

01:23:49.920 --> 01:23:51.760
The hard part is letting go.

01:23:51.760 --> 01:23:54.400
That's a chapter on grief, because I'm one of them.

01:23:54.400 --> 01:23:59.600
reminder to all of us not to beat ourselves up. You know, I did my best with that chapter. It

01:23:59.600 --> 01:24:04.560
took a long time to write because I know that a lot of people who read my book read it because

01:24:04.560 --> 01:24:09.760
they've just lost someone very close to them. And it was either they bought it while they were

01:24:09.760 --> 01:24:14.880
searching or someone gave it to them as a gift. So I really did my very best to provide as much

01:24:14.880 --> 01:24:18.480
comfort as I can in that chapter. - Making the leap.

01:24:18.480 --> 01:24:25.360
That's making the leap from the relevance of humans in the world in being treated with

01:24:25.360 --> 01:24:29.720
compassion and so forth. That's making the leap to animals, that they too are sentient

01:24:29.720 --> 01:24:36.880
beings. They're capable of being compassionate. They're deserving of compassion. They're brilliant.

01:24:36.880 --> 01:24:40.920
They have their own little lives and their own relationships and so forth. So that's

01:24:40.920 --> 01:24:46.000
really kind of tying it all together. I wrote this book for two reasons. I wrote it to people

01:24:46.000 --> 01:24:50.240
who are grieving, people grieving the loss of a beloved animal, and I also wrote this

01:24:50.240 --> 01:24:54.240
book for the animals themselves so that I could be a voice for them because they are

01:24:54.240 --> 01:24:58.200
voiceless in our world. They don't speak our language, you know, they don't speak, not

01:24:58.200 --> 01:25:00.480
the way we speak. Well, parakeets do or parrots.

01:25:00.480 --> 01:25:01.480
Pete: That's true.

01:25:01.480 --> 01:25:05.000
Angela: You know what I mean? But in general, yeah, so that chapter is just kind of tying

01:25:05.000 --> 01:25:06.000
it all together.

01:25:06.000 --> 01:25:12.620
Pete: Yeah. And I think your book has undoubtedly had an impact in terms of getting people to

01:25:12.620 --> 01:25:17.740
treat animals more compassionately and regard them as more sentient than they're often thought

01:25:17.740 --> 01:25:18.740
to be.

01:25:18.740 --> 01:25:22.500
That was certainly my goal, and over the years I've heard from people who either they went

01:25:22.500 --> 01:25:28.980
vegan or they started an animal rescue or whatever after reading the book, and I'm like,

01:25:28.980 --> 01:25:29.980
"Wonderful!"

01:25:29.980 --> 01:25:33.960
That was what I was hoping would happen, you know, because if we've been through a trauma,

01:25:33.960 --> 01:25:37.900
and usually a loss, a loss that drives someone to read a book on what happened to their loved

01:25:37.900 --> 01:25:40.500
one when they passed, that's a trauma.

01:25:40.500 --> 01:25:45.700
And one of the ways we can really work through trauma, I believe, is to find a mission, a

01:25:45.700 --> 01:25:46.700
cause.

01:25:46.700 --> 01:25:51.840
So many of the most wonderful causes in this world were initially triggered by a trauma

01:25:51.840 --> 01:25:55.600
that that person went through and it was in their own healing that they then found something

01:25:55.600 --> 01:25:59.320
meaningful to put their energy into.

01:25:59.320 --> 01:26:03.460
So if someone reads my book and comes away doing something for the animals, whatever

01:26:03.460 --> 01:26:08.060
that is, no matter how small or big, I feel like that's something that they can do in

01:26:08.060 --> 01:26:11.100
the honor of the loved one they've lost.

01:26:11.100 --> 01:26:12.100
Nice.

01:26:12.100 --> 01:26:13.100
Okay.

01:26:13.100 --> 01:26:15.580
"Holding animals in a new light."

01:26:15.580 --> 01:26:17.460
That is similar to the "Making the Leap."

01:26:17.460 --> 01:26:19.460
I honestly don't remember at this point.

01:26:19.460 --> 01:26:20.460
Yeah, what was different about it?

01:26:20.460 --> 01:26:21.740
It's been a long time since I wrote it all.

01:26:21.740 --> 01:26:25.100
And then after I wrote it, you know, years, and I put it in categories and so forth.

01:26:25.100 --> 01:26:26.100
Sure.

01:26:26.100 --> 01:26:27.100
But same thing.

01:26:27.100 --> 01:26:29.660
Putting you through quite a test here for someone who hasn't slept much last night,

01:26:29.660 --> 01:26:30.900
making you remember these things.

01:26:30.900 --> 01:26:32.620
This is good for my mind.

01:26:32.620 --> 01:26:35.660
It learns how to think on its toes even without sleep.

01:26:35.660 --> 01:26:36.660
Yeah.

01:26:36.660 --> 01:26:37.660
Okay, final chapter.

01:26:37.660 --> 01:26:38.660
full circle.

01:26:38.660 --> 01:26:43.340
>> Full circle, and that was my own experience of coming full circle and then, you know,

01:26:43.340 --> 01:26:48.100
the chapter ends with me going through a loss in my own life, and that's how the book ends.

01:26:48.100 --> 01:26:51.660
I won't tell you how the ending is. It kind of wraps it back around to my own personal

01:26:51.660 --> 01:26:55.540
experience and why I wrote this in the first place.

01:26:55.540 --> 01:27:00.460
>> Yeah. Okay, I guess we didn't get a lot of questions during the interview, but there's

01:27:00.460 --> 01:27:07.220
There's one that came in the other day from someone named Deborah Thunderchild, and sounds

01:27:07.220 --> 01:27:08.540
Native American maybe.

01:27:08.540 --> 01:27:12.020
She said, "I wanted to thank you for your magnificent book.

01:27:12.020 --> 01:27:16.420
I used to give it to all my clients after they had a beloved animal past.

01:27:16.420 --> 01:27:21.780
I love too that you rescue animals, and especially love your description of the ratties that

01:27:21.780 --> 01:27:23.380
you have loved.

01:27:23.380 --> 01:27:26.060
And I loved all your stories about animals."

01:27:26.060 --> 01:27:28.260
So just a nice little comment from her.

01:27:28.260 --> 01:27:32.300
Thank you, and I want to thank her for doing that, for sharing the book and helping others

01:27:32.300 --> 01:27:33.300
with it.

01:27:33.300 --> 01:27:34.300
That really means a lot to me.

01:27:34.300 --> 01:27:40.420
Okay, I'll let you go, but is there anything you want to say in conclusion, or any final

01:27:40.420 --> 01:27:44.860
thoughts or anything that I haven't thought to ask you that you wanted to comment on?

01:27:44.860 --> 01:27:46.460
Not that I can think of on the top of my head.

01:27:46.460 --> 01:27:50.500
I appreciate you, this is very thorough, and I appreciate how much you covered.

01:27:50.500 --> 01:27:54.860
And yeah, I will just say that, you know, anything I share that might have seemed like

01:27:54.860 --> 01:27:57.220
you mentioned a skeptic might think, "Oh, I don't know."

01:27:57.220 --> 01:28:01.620
you know, read the book, because, and if you can't afford the book, find it in a library or something,

01:28:01.620 --> 01:28:05.700
because I do think it's helpful for everyone to know. I think it's very comforting,

01:28:05.700 --> 01:28:10.900
and hopefully my goal is to awaken some compassion in those who have that part of themselves shut off

01:28:10.900 --> 01:28:14.900
right now. And I would say, and you have said during this interview, that there's nothing wrong

01:28:14.900 --> 01:28:22.180
with being skeptical. Just don't dig your heels in too hard. Be open, doubt all you like, but also

01:28:22.180 --> 01:28:28.820
keep an open mind to at least look at evidence if it presents itself and, you know, don't just kind

01:28:28.820 --> 01:28:32.420
of slam the door and refuse to look at it.

01:28:32.420 --> 01:28:36.180
Well said, and I agree, and that's true. I've always called myself an open-minded skeptic.

01:28:36.180 --> 01:28:40.340
And I will say that there were some stories that people submitted to my book that I did turn down

01:28:40.340 --> 01:28:46.100
because I did feel that those were perhaps a stretch of wishful thinking. So, I didn't just

01:28:46.100 --> 01:28:50.740
include everything, and, you know, I was gentle about it, of course, but we have to maintain that

01:28:50.740 --> 01:28:55.160
that healthy skepticism. Otherwise, my research would lose credibility and I wouldn't be able

01:28:55.160 --> 01:28:59.740
to continue to grow and learn more and hopefully refine my approach and my beliefs over time.

01:28:59.740 --> 01:29:03.900
It would evolve like we're all doing or trying to do or hopefully doing.

01:29:03.900 --> 01:29:07.940
One way I put it is, "I gave everything the benefit of the doubt, but I take everything

01:29:07.940 --> 01:29:10.420
with a grain of salt and proportions vary."

01:29:10.420 --> 01:29:13.220
I love it. That's awesome. Great recipe.

01:29:13.220 --> 01:29:17.500
All right. Well, thanks so much, Kim. I really enjoyed talking to you.

01:29:17.500 --> 01:29:18.500
Likewise.

01:29:18.500 --> 01:29:23.620
you for all the hoops you had to jump through to get this done. It was all worth it. Thank you for

01:29:23.620 --> 01:29:28.500
your patience with me in jumping through all these hoops. I really appreciate it. And also,

01:29:28.500 --> 01:29:32.500
I want to acknowledge those who tried to do the live stream the first time and my tech,

01:29:32.500 --> 01:29:36.180
my computer and everything else was not cooperating. And I apologize for anyone who sat

01:29:36.180 --> 01:29:40.580
waiting and wondering why I didn't show up that day. So here we are. I put a little message on

01:29:40.580 --> 01:29:45.220
there explaining what happened. Hopefully they came back today. Otherwise they can see the

01:29:45.220 --> 01:29:50.180
permanent version when we put it up. Wonderful. Yeah. Thanks for what you do. I appreciate it.

01:29:50.180 --> 01:29:57.620
Oh, thank you. And have a safe trip to Arizona. Be careful if you get sleepy, pull over and take

01:29:57.620 --> 01:30:02.260
a nap or have a coffee or something. I've got some organic cacao all lined up, so I'll be good.

01:30:02.260 --> 01:30:07.380
Thank you. Yeah. I mean, we've had drives that, you know, I was like starting to nod off and I'm

01:30:07.380 --> 01:30:11.460
pinching my leg and trying to keep myself awake. And next thing I know, I'm hitting the rumble bars

01:30:11.460 --> 01:30:14.100
at the side of the road, say, "Boy, you just have to be careful."

01:30:14.100 --> 01:30:18.580
Kim: Yeah, I learned the hard way on that one. I had a relationship with a fire hydrant once,

01:30:18.580 --> 01:30:22.420
but I don't recommend, so yeah, I will not take any chances.

01:30:22.420 --> 01:30:24.740
Dr. Jim Martin: Good. All right, so thanks so much, Kim.

01:30:24.740 --> 01:30:25.940
Kim: Thank you so much.

01:30:25.940 --> 01:30:28.820
Dr. Jim Martin: And thanks to those who've been watching or listening,

01:30:28.820 --> 01:30:30.740
and we'll see you for the next one.

01:30:30.740 --> 01:30:33.140
Awesome. Take care. Bye-bye.

01:30:33.140 --> 01:30:36.500
[MUSIC PLAYING]

01:30:36.500 --> 01:30:57.460
Thank you.