WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:25.000 [Music] 00:00:25.000 --> 00:00:30.480 Welcome to Buddha at the Gas Pump. My name is Rick Archer. Buddha at the Gas Pump is 00:00:30.480 --> 00:00:36.000 an ongoing series of conversations with spiritually awakening people. We've done 00:00:36.000 --> 00:00:40.600 over 700 of them now and if this is new to you and you'd like to check out 00:00:40.600 --> 00:00:45.480 previous ones you can do so on YouTube but you might also want to go to 00:00:45.480 --> 00:00:50.320 batgap.com where it's a little bit easier to organize them. We have categorical 00:00:50.320 --> 00:00:56.560 index and various search tools and links to an AI chat bot that you can use to interact 00:00:56.560 --> 00:01:01.720 with the knowledge brought out in interviews and all kinds of things. 00:01:01.720 --> 00:01:06.540 This program is made possible through the support of appreciative listeners and viewers, 00:01:06.540 --> 00:01:10.540 so if you appreciate it and would like to help support it, there are PayPal buttons on 00:01:10.540 --> 00:01:15.920 every page of the website and a page discussing alternatives to PayPal. 00:01:15.920 --> 00:01:19.920 And we're going to do a major website upgrade soon. 00:01:19.920 --> 00:01:26.760 We're hiring a web designer and so on, so expenses are a little high and cash flow is a little 00:01:26.760 --> 00:01:30.400 low, so if you feel like supporting it, this would be a good time. 00:01:30.400 --> 00:01:33.280 My guest today is Tree Wiseblood. 00:01:33.280 --> 00:01:38.640 Tree was on BatCap about six years ago and recently reached out to us and said that she 00:01:38.640 --> 00:01:43.880 feels like she has a pretty fresh batch of information or knowledge to express that we 00:01:43.880 --> 00:01:48.920 didn't cover thoroughly in the first interview, so if you have seen that interview, this shouldn't 00:01:48.920 --> 00:01:53.320 be redundant. And if you haven't seen it, you might want to watch that even before watching 00:01:53.320 --> 00:01:56.280 this or afterwards if you prefer. 00:01:56.280 --> 00:02:03.440 Tree works as a spiritual mentor in Kundalini support. She's a certified global TRE instructor, 00:02:03.440 --> 00:02:08.400 which she'll remind us what that means, a transformational body worker and a healer 00:02:08.400 --> 00:02:14.120 from the shamanic tradition. She believes healing trauma can precipitate spiritual awakening 00:02:14.120 --> 00:02:18.960 and it is from this precept that she works. She works with the body, releasing contraction 00:02:18.960 --> 00:02:24.140 and with the nervous system establishing balance, with the understanding that a dysregulated 00:02:24.140 --> 00:02:29.260 nervous system can hold the beingness hostage. She believes enlightenment is achieved not 00:02:29.260 --> 00:02:34.560 by bypassing the body but by going into the body, by addressing and releasing trauma bound 00:02:34.560 --> 00:02:40.320 in the flesh and stored in the nervous system. This is true freedom and the result is presence, 00:02:40.320 --> 00:02:41.320 embodied. 00:02:41.320 --> 00:02:46.160 Tri has been a devotee of Mare Baba since she was 21, whose pictures you see behind 00:02:46.160 --> 00:02:50.320 her on the wall there. She and her husband are establishing a retreat center on the far 00:02:50.320 --> 00:02:57.200 south coast of New South Wales, Australia, called Mare Farm Healing and Awakening Center. 00:02:57.200 --> 00:03:02.420 She is the author of Hot Flush Dark Cave, describing her healing and awakening journey 00:03:02.420 --> 00:03:07.500 through the portal of menopause. She's a devoted mother, grandmother, and healer. Her favorite 00:03:07.500 --> 00:03:12.420 pastime other than being on Buddha at the gas pump is swimming in the river and the 00:03:12.420 --> 00:03:21.360 ocean and chanting to God. I love your emphasis on the nervous system because a lot of spiritual 00:03:21.360 --> 00:03:27.940 teachers don't talk about it too much or other people might go into the body and health and 00:03:27.940 --> 00:03:33.380 physical stuff without talking about awakening too much, but as Jesus said, the body is the 00:03:33.380 --> 00:03:40.220 temple of the soul, and many spiritual teachers have spoken about the body as a vehicle without 00:03:40.220 --> 00:03:46.860 which we couldn't achieve enlightenment. And there is clearly a correlation in everyday 00:03:46.860 --> 00:03:54.820 life between our subjective experience and our neurophysiology, and it stands to reason 00:03:54.820 --> 00:04:01.300 that if the neurophysiology is gunked up, if it's full of stress and tension and physical 00:04:01.300 --> 00:04:08.180 and structural abnormalities and impurities and so on, that is going to reflect in our 00:04:08.180 --> 00:04:10.580 conscious experience. 00:04:10.580 --> 00:04:15.820 I would surmise that someone with a radically different state of consciousness, such as 00:04:15.820 --> 00:04:21.880 Mehrababa or Ramana Maharshi or any great sage, actually also had a radically different 00:04:21.880 --> 00:04:27.480 style of neurophysiological functioning, which could have been measured, and these days scientists 00:04:27.480 --> 00:04:29.120 are trying to measure that sort of thing. 00:04:29.120 --> 00:04:34.840 They're trying to correlate higher states of consciousness with brain activity and so 00:04:34.840 --> 00:04:35.840 on. 00:04:35.840 --> 00:04:40.880 It's a field that is pretty much in its infancy still, but as time goes on I think it'll be 00:04:40.880 --> 00:04:42.920 better and better understood. 00:04:42.920 --> 00:04:45.040 In any case, that should get you going. 00:04:45.040 --> 00:04:49.880 I think your emphasis is in the right place, and there are, again, spiritual teachers and 00:04:49.880 --> 00:04:57.240 teachings which bypass that altogether. It might dismiss the body as an illusion and so on and not 00:04:57.240 --> 00:05:02.120 give any consideration to it and yeah, I think that's a partial approach. 00:05:02.120 --> 00:05:08.440 Mary: As far as I see it, you know, ultimately no, we're not the body. We're consciousness having 00:05:08.440 --> 00:05:15.560 visits through a body, but at the same time, the body is the vehicle to work through 00:05:16.120 --> 00:05:23.080 sanskaras in this life and I feel like a lot of people dismiss this life condition, even 00:05:23.080 --> 00:05:29.560 the person's sort of destiny, where to live out, what we have to live through, 00:05:29.560 --> 00:05:37.800 what our destiny is and a way of working through the sanskaras. So yeah, ultimately not the body 00:05:37.800 --> 00:05:42.000 and yet the body, from what I can fathom, 00:05:42.000 --> 00:05:46.200 sometimes we are triggered into an awakening experience, 00:05:46.200 --> 00:05:48.900 which was my own case, through trauma. 00:05:48.900 --> 00:05:52.100 So trauma can actually give you a pure consciousness, 00:05:52.100 --> 00:05:54.400 a state of being pure awareness, 00:05:54.400 --> 00:05:59.200 because the ego has been shattered at some point. 00:05:59.200 --> 00:06:02.700 At the same time, we can have awakening experiences 00:06:02.700 --> 00:06:04.400 through other mediums, 00:06:04.400 --> 00:06:06.900 and there's so many that we could mention, 00:06:06.900 --> 00:06:11.940 but we probably don't need to. But even when people have had profound awakenings, 00:06:11.940 --> 00:06:19.780 what generally happens is the personhood gets triggered in life and so we contract back and 00:06:19.780 --> 00:06:26.980 person arises again. So I feel we have to work through the trauma which is bound in the flesh 00:06:26.980 --> 00:06:34.500 and which is really active in the nervous system. What is the awake state but being here and 00:06:34.500 --> 00:06:37.100 and generally want to be in a peace. 00:06:37.100 --> 00:06:39.980 We don't always want a calm nervous system, 00:06:39.980 --> 00:06:43.040 but what we want is a resilient one. 00:06:43.040 --> 00:06:46.780 Most of humanity is, and myself was included 00:06:46.780 --> 00:06:49.700 until I did a lot of trauma work, 00:06:49.700 --> 00:06:51.680 trapped in a nervous system 00:06:51.680 --> 00:06:54.180 that initially was working for us. 00:06:54.180 --> 00:06:57.940 So we need to be able to go into fight or flight 00:06:57.940 --> 00:07:01.500 or freeze or thaw to protect ourselves. 00:07:01.500 --> 00:07:04.160 So if someone came in here now, a robber, 00:07:04.160 --> 00:07:08.320 I might fight them or I might run out the other door 00:07:08.320 --> 00:07:12.760 or I might go into a freeze, no one here, 00:07:12.760 --> 00:07:15.860 take what you want, or I might fawn and say, 00:07:15.860 --> 00:07:19.520 "Oh, all the gold and diamonds," which I don't have, 00:07:19.520 --> 00:07:24.280 but in the cabinet in my room, you know, help yourself. 00:07:24.280 --> 00:07:28.520 So it can be really helpful to preserve our organism. 00:07:28.520 --> 00:07:31.760 Fantastic, and yet what tends to happen is 00:07:31.760 --> 00:07:35.400 I get stuck in this loop that is stuck on. 00:07:35.400 --> 00:07:37.520 Now my nervous system, I feel like, 00:07:37.520 --> 00:07:41.360 was like that from in utero until about 50 00:07:41.360 --> 00:07:44.440 when I started to take on a really significant 00:07:44.440 --> 00:07:46.440 healing journey. 00:07:46.440 --> 00:07:49.800 Life was a dread and the ego identity 00:07:49.800 --> 00:07:52.400 is really quite loud and noisy 00:07:52.400 --> 00:07:55.280 when the nervous system's activated. 00:07:55.280 --> 00:07:58.320 So there's no inner peace whatsoever. 00:07:58.320 --> 00:08:08.260 There's no chance to be able to sink down further into the beingness that always exists here, 00:08:08.260 --> 00:08:13.560 that's always here in all of us, but with the noise and traffic of an activated nervous 00:08:13.560 --> 00:08:16.640 system, we can't even feel into it. 00:08:16.640 --> 00:08:20.120 It'll begin to dissolve into it. 00:08:20.120 --> 00:08:25.800 Yeah, so you said we're not the body, true, and we're not our car either, but if you want 00:08:25.800 --> 00:08:29.840 take a cross-country trip and you have never changed the oil and you put cheap 00:08:29.840 --> 00:08:33.600 gas in the car and you know you just don't upkeep it, then your car might 00:08:33.600 --> 00:08:38.400 break down and you know it's not going to be a very smooth journey. So you 00:08:38.400 --> 00:08:42.840 know we need to make sure that the nervous system, the body is functioning 00:08:42.840 --> 00:08:47.400 optimally in order for it to serve us well. That kind of dawned on me 00:08:47.400 --> 00:08:53.600 when I was about 18 and had been doing a lot of drugs and I in a very kind of 00:08:53.600 --> 00:08:59.920 confused, foggy state, it dawned on me that if I keep carrying on as I was, I'm going to damage my 00:08:59.920 --> 00:09:04.560 body and then I'll be stuck in a damaged body for the rest of my life. And as a matter of fact, 00:09:04.560 --> 00:09:11.520 I have hep C antibodies in my system because I exposed myself to it. But my doctor said that, 00:09:11.520 --> 00:09:16.320 "Oh, well, actually you're more immune to it than anybody now because your body beat it on its own 00:09:16.320 --> 00:09:21.120 successfully. So don't worry about it." But you know, that's how things were going. 00:09:22.240 --> 00:09:26.160 And just one more comment on what you said and then you can bounce back from that. 00:09:26.160 --> 00:09:31.440 When you talk about an agitated nervous system or over activated, it doesn't mean that we have to 00:09:31.440 --> 00:09:36.400 be placid in life. You know, you talk to some great athletes who are in the midst of the most 00:09:36.400 --> 00:09:42.880 dynamic activity and what they report subjectively is an inner quietness and silence and their mind 00:09:42.880 --> 00:09:48.960 is just clear and they're able to totally engage in what they're doing without a lot of inappropriate 00:09:48.960 --> 00:09:54.320 and distracting inner commotion. So I think one's whole life can be like that, whether 00:09:54.320 --> 00:09:59.360 one's an athlete or whatever one is doing. One can be in the midst of dynamic activity 00:09:59.360 --> 00:10:06.520 and yet there's an inner silence that supports and underlies that. And there's actually 00:10:06.520 --> 00:10:10.640 a neurophysiological component to that, which I don't want to talk at too great a length, 00:10:10.640 --> 00:10:15.240 but very briefly, at least in the Indian tradition, it's understood that there are two nervous 00:10:15.240 --> 00:10:19.620 systems which kind of take turns being active and if the nervous system is 00:10:19.620 --> 00:10:23.720 properly developed there's always one which is sort of maintaining the silent 00:10:23.720 --> 00:10:27.540 aspect of our awareness and the other which is maintaining the dynamic aspect 00:10:27.540 --> 00:10:32.220 of our activity and the alternation of those nervous systems actually 00:10:32.220 --> 00:10:37.080 corresponds to a subtle predominance of breath through one or the other nostril 00:10:37.080 --> 00:10:41.120 so there's a whole science to that. Okay enough said. 00:10:41.120 --> 00:10:47.320 Athletes can get into that beautiful flow state and people in general can be in 00:10:47.320 --> 00:10:52.060 that beautiful flow state where there's not the doer, there is really just the 00:10:52.060 --> 00:10:58.280 doing happening. And I think athletes sort of tap into that or can tap into 00:10:58.280 --> 00:11:03.120 them. Yeah, the greatest ones they consider it to be their kind of secret 00:11:03.120 --> 00:11:08.060 to success in a way. They're able to function in that way and be so focused 00:11:08.060 --> 00:11:11.980 and still and you can see it in their faces sometimes. You watch somebody like Coco Gough 00:11:11.980 --> 00:11:17.740 playing tennis and there's just this sort of laser-like focus and the crowds are screaming, 00:11:17.740 --> 00:11:22.620 but the mind is just zeroed in on the task at hand without a lot of inner turbulence. 00:11:22.620 --> 00:11:30.660 Beautiful. Yeah, I feel, Rick, about the whole general healing trauma as an absolute path 00:11:30.660 --> 00:11:33.420 for beginning this awakening process. 00:11:33.420 --> 00:11:37.500 I feel like ego is formed up out of sanskaras, 00:11:37.500 --> 00:11:40.900 so impressions we bring with us from past life, 00:11:40.900 --> 00:11:43.460 conditioning, and trauma. 00:11:43.460 --> 00:11:45.820 So the trauma is somewhere 00:11:45.820 --> 00:11:49.020 where the person can actively work. 00:11:49.020 --> 00:11:51.560 Often we need God's grace 00:11:51.560 --> 00:11:55.100 to assist us on this involution process, 00:11:55.100 --> 00:11:57.580 but healing the trauma is where the person 00:11:57.580 --> 00:11:59.220 can be really quite active 00:11:59.220 --> 00:12:04.220 and take an active role to release it from the body 00:12:04.220 --> 00:12:06.860 and really tend this nervous system 00:12:06.860 --> 00:12:11.860 so that we can be present, or even better, be present 00:12:11.860 --> 00:12:14.800 so that we're not living out of past 00:12:14.800 --> 00:12:17.180 activated nervous system states. 00:12:17.180 --> 00:12:20.680 And when I look at humanity, 00:12:20.680 --> 00:12:23.980 the majority of humanity is living out of 00:12:23.980 --> 00:12:25.580 really activated states. 00:12:25.580 --> 00:12:29.580 And so there is no inner peace, there's no world peace. 00:12:29.580 --> 00:12:33.340 And yeah, it's exciting because we can do 00:12:33.340 --> 00:12:36.020 this hero's healing journey for ourself 00:12:36.020 --> 00:12:38.260 and our nervous system. 00:12:38.260 --> 00:12:40.980 So that sort of really does excite me. 00:12:40.980 --> 00:12:44.260 And I would share that sense of inner peace, 00:12:44.260 --> 00:12:46.500 that sense of being grounded 00:12:46.500 --> 00:12:51.500 and being able to have the consciousness exist in the body, 00:12:51.500 --> 00:12:55.020 to have that embodied sense of consciousness 00:12:55.020 --> 00:12:59.100 Previously, my nervous system was so dysregulated 00:12:59.100 --> 00:13:02.580 before I did healing that I couldn't be in my body. 00:13:02.580 --> 00:13:06.580 I was always dissociated, so I was always living out here 00:13:06.580 --> 00:13:10.060 'cause the body didn't feel safe to exist in. 00:13:10.060 --> 00:13:14.060 It was just full of a soup of sensations and trauma. 00:13:14.060 --> 00:13:16.320 And by trauma, I suppose at this point 00:13:16.320 --> 00:13:18.940 I would give a definition that any time 00:13:18.940 --> 00:13:22.900 that the system's overwhelmed and stores it in the flesh, 00:13:22.900 --> 00:13:24.900 in the muscle, in the fascia, 00:13:24.900 --> 00:13:29.700 and has a really strong imprint into our nervous system. 00:13:29.700 --> 00:13:33.520 So obviously, hard trauma is easy to recognize, 00:13:33.520 --> 00:13:35.620 but also softer traumas, 00:13:35.620 --> 00:13:38.100 every time we have had that overwhelm 00:13:38.100 --> 00:13:40.560 and that contraction is stored. 00:13:40.560 --> 00:13:44.160 So there's lots of beautiful things that we can do 00:13:44.160 --> 00:13:47.260 to help release that and settle everything. 00:13:47.260 --> 00:13:50.380 - You mentioned some scars and past lives and all. 00:13:50.380 --> 00:13:57.380 So, would you say that even a newborn baby has some scars and some impressions? 00:13:57.380 --> 00:14:02.380 And we're not just talking about the gross flesh and blood nervous system, are we? 00:14:02.380 --> 00:14:05.380 We're also talking about the subtle body, the subtle nervous system. 00:14:05.380 --> 00:14:11.380 We'd have to be, otherwise how could it be that some scars could be carried over from life to life? 00:14:11.380 --> 00:14:16.380 Because obviously between lives we don't have any kind of gross body. 00:14:16.380 --> 00:14:21.100 Would you also agree that even if somebody had an idyllic upbringing and a very good 00:14:21.100 --> 00:14:26.180 family and everything was smooth and comfortable and all that, you know, the very fact that 00:14:26.180 --> 00:14:31.820 we are a human being means that there are some buried traumas, some impressions. 00:14:31.820 --> 00:14:36.420 Maybe one way of putting it is, if we're not enlightened, there must be something yet to 00:14:36.420 --> 00:14:38.860 resolve in the mind-body system. 00:14:38.860 --> 00:14:40.180 Yeah, absolutely. 00:14:40.180 --> 00:14:41.740 That's why we're still here. 00:14:41.740 --> 00:14:42.740 Yeah. 00:14:42.740 --> 00:14:47.540 of us. Some people become fully God-realized and I'm excited to talk 00:14:47.540 --> 00:14:51.660 about the levels of consciousness and they choose to come back and help 00:14:51.660 --> 00:14:58.820 humanity. So how wonderful. That's pretty rare. Yeah. And also too, Rick, trauma is not 00:14:58.820 --> 00:15:04.500 just what happened to us but it's what didn't happen for us as mammals. So often 00:15:04.500 --> 00:15:10.100 as babies, as wonderful or not as our parents were, but even when they tried 00:15:10.100 --> 00:15:13.580 really hard, particularly in our age group, 00:15:13.580 --> 00:15:15.780 we weren't fed on demand. 00:15:15.780 --> 00:15:18.180 We weren't scooped up every time we cried. 00:15:18.180 --> 00:15:21.560 Now as mammals, if you look at the monkey world or whatever, 00:15:21.560 --> 00:15:25.200 where the baby's continuously hanging off the mother, 00:15:25.200 --> 00:15:27.760 fed on demand, always held, 00:15:27.760 --> 00:15:31.180 regulating its nervous system and being cared for, 00:15:31.180 --> 00:15:34.000 often, particularly in the West, 00:15:34.000 --> 00:15:37.540 you know, we were put in a cot away from our mother 00:15:37.540 --> 00:15:40.260 or caregiver and left to cry. 00:15:40.260 --> 00:15:42.500 And that is an enormous, 00:15:42.500 --> 00:15:44.400 it doesn't sound like it to some people, 00:15:44.400 --> 00:15:48.700 but that's a big trauma for a little mammalian organism 00:15:48.700 --> 00:15:53.100 that just needs skin contact reassurance. 00:15:53.100 --> 00:15:55.540 So often our childhood, 00:15:55.540 --> 00:16:00.060 just not having those oral and mammalian needs met 00:16:00.060 --> 00:16:03.500 creates a lot of contraction in our system. 00:16:03.500 --> 00:16:04.340 - Yeah. 00:16:04.340 --> 00:16:05.620 - Yeah, a lot of trauma. 00:16:05.620 --> 00:16:12.820 So yeah, it's sort of fantastic now that there's all this information about conscious parenting 00:16:12.820 --> 00:16:20.660 and hopefully, you know, more natural births, less medical intervention. So, you know, often there's 00:16:20.660 --> 00:16:26.580 medical intervention and look when it's needed, how wonderful, mum and baby are safe. That is 00:16:26.580 --> 00:16:33.540 fantastic when it's an emergency or needed, but I feel even with birthing people are getting 00:16:34.180 --> 00:16:37.220 down medical corridors when it's not necessary. 00:16:37.220 --> 00:16:43.580 I don't think that they realize the impact that has on the mother and child. 00:16:43.580 --> 00:16:50.220 That whole birthing process sets the baby and the mother up, natural birthing if possible, 00:16:50.220 --> 00:16:56.460 and if the mother's not taking drugs, she's actually present and there. 00:16:56.460 --> 00:17:00.740 She's not off with the fairies on drugs. 00:17:00.740 --> 00:17:06.500 first connection where the baby meets 00:17:06.500 --> 00:17:10.340 the mother's eyes is a really profound 00:17:10.340 --> 00:17:13.700 moment, a welcome to the planet. I've got 00:17:13.700 --> 00:17:16.420 you, you're safe. A sense that just embeds 00:17:16.420 --> 00:17:18.860 in the nervous system. If that doesn't 00:17:18.860 --> 00:17:22.820 happen and you're looking up at a white 00:17:22.820 --> 00:17:27.060 ceiling in a hospital... Being spanked. Yeah, 00:17:27.060 --> 00:17:30.020 being spanked. So there's, you know, so 00:17:27.060 --> 00:17:29.860 There's so much that we can do for babies 00:17:29.860 --> 00:17:31.860 and young children now, 00:17:31.860 --> 00:17:35.320 and there's a lot of information about that, 00:17:35.320 --> 00:17:39.920 conscious parenting, which is, I think, is brilliant. 00:17:39.920 --> 00:17:43.460 I've got grandkids now, so I've been studying all that 00:17:43.460 --> 00:17:45.440 to do a better job of my grandchildren 00:17:45.440 --> 00:17:48.100 than I have done of my own children, 00:17:48.100 --> 00:17:51.100 although they were fed on demand and home births, 00:17:51.100 --> 00:17:52.940 and they got a pretty good go, 00:17:52.940 --> 00:17:54.980 but where they didn't get a good go 00:17:54.980 --> 00:17:58.220 was my nervous system was dysregulated. 00:17:58.220 --> 00:18:03.900 I would have absorbed my parents' nervous system 00:18:03.900 --> 00:18:06.680 and didn't know anything other than 00:18:06.680 --> 00:18:08.400 I thought this was life. 00:18:08.400 --> 00:18:11.200 This sense of having an activated nervous system, 00:18:11.200 --> 00:18:14.920 I thought this was life and I was stuck in my ego identity, 00:18:14.920 --> 00:18:19.060 my person, and I was in fight and flight. 00:18:19.060 --> 00:18:20.220 I regret that. 00:18:20.220 --> 00:18:24.500 I see this beautiful conscious parenting now, 00:18:24.500 --> 00:18:30.000 But unless the parents do the work on their nervous system, it's just a script. 00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:30.500 Yeah. 00:18:30.500 --> 00:18:38.000 So, to have that embodied sense of conscious parenting, the parent's nervous system needs healing. 00:18:38.000 --> 00:18:40.000 They need a resilient nervous system. 00:18:40.000 --> 00:18:50.500 Because children, even before verbal, they absorb the sense of the parent, the sense of safety, the sense of how they are in the world. 00:18:50.500 --> 00:18:56.740 Sure, even in the womb the child must be absorbing the traumas of the parents, both the parents, 00:18:56.740 --> 00:18:57.740 you know? 00:18:57.740 --> 00:19:00.420 I mean, if the mother and father are having a fight or something and the child is in the 00:19:00.420 --> 00:19:02.860 womb, certainly that influences the child. 00:19:02.860 --> 00:19:08.300 But I mean, you shouldn't blame yourself for what you didn't do 30 years ago or something, 00:19:08.300 --> 00:19:11.740 you know, you did the best you could. 00:19:11.740 --> 00:19:16.260 I feel like all parents do the best they can from where they're at and where their nervous 00:19:16.260 --> 00:19:18.500 systems are and how they are in life. 00:19:18.500 --> 00:19:23.960 Like, yeah, absolutely no blame, but now that there's this knowledge, if they combined it 00:19:23.960 --> 00:19:29.700 with healing their own trauma before they have children, tending their own nervous system, 00:19:29.700 --> 00:19:34.040 then they've got a nervous system that's beautiful to regulate off. 00:19:34.040 --> 00:19:38.900 And then we could have a whole incoming humanity that aren't as traumatized. 00:19:38.900 --> 00:19:40.380 Yeah, that's great. 00:19:40.380 --> 00:19:46.180 I was born by caesarean myself a few years after World War II, which my father had fought 00:19:46.180 --> 00:19:52.660 in and been very traumatized by and became an alcoholic. He was and all that. But I remember 00:19:52.660 --> 00:19:58.100 at one point I had the opportunity to say to my mother, "Don't feel bad about anything you did, 00:19:58.100 --> 00:20:02.020 you know, bringing me up. You did the best you could and I'm really happy with the way my life 00:20:02.020 --> 00:20:05.780 is turning out now. This is after I've been meditating for a while and things were going 00:20:05.780 --> 00:20:09.860 really well. So, you know, don't worry about it." And that really kind of relieved her to 00:20:09.860 --> 00:20:15.300 have that said to her. But the point you're making about the world, I think, is really significant. 00:20:15.300 --> 00:20:22.660 And, you know, we look at the world and we look at various wars and famines and all kinds 00:20:22.660 --> 00:20:27.280 of terrible things happening all over the place, the drug crisis, and, you know, we could spend 00:20:27.280 --> 00:20:31.200 all night just picking off all the problems that plague the world. 00:20:31.200 --> 00:20:35.980 I think you're saying, and I would agree with you, that all of these problems are symptoms 00:20:35.980 --> 00:20:44.260 or manifestations of large numbers of traumatized people, basically universally traumatized 00:20:44.260 --> 00:20:49.940 people just behaving naturally from a foundation of trauma. 00:20:49.940 --> 00:20:53.860 And it takes a collective form, just as it does an individual form. 00:20:53.860 --> 00:20:57.820 I mean, a traumatized individual is going to screw up their life in certain ways. 00:20:57.820 --> 00:21:05.380 A collection of traumatized people in a country, the country is going to have problems as manifestations 00:21:05.380 --> 00:21:09.700 of the millions of traumatized people in its populace. 00:21:09.700 --> 00:21:10.780 Absolutely. 00:21:10.780 --> 00:21:16.020 And the beauty of it is, yes, you said before, we are human, we will experience trauma, it's 00:21:16.020 --> 00:21:18.000 part of our existence. 00:21:18.000 --> 00:21:20.740 But the beauty is, we can heal it. 00:21:20.740 --> 00:21:24.260 We don't have to be stuck in concrete. 00:21:24.260 --> 00:21:26.640 And this should be a national priority. 00:21:26.640 --> 00:21:30.920 We do need to take care of the economy and the environment and all the things that governments 00:21:30.920 --> 00:21:37.580 are supposed to do, but education, in my opinion, should include methods to de-traumatize the 00:21:37.580 --> 00:21:38.580 kids. 00:21:38.580 --> 00:21:43.220 You teach them factual information, but at the same time you help them culture their nervous 00:21:43.220 --> 00:21:48.500 systems to be trauma-free by the time they graduate from college or whatever. 00:21:48.500 --> 00:21:54.740 Yeah, I have quite a few parents say, "Oh, I'd love you to teach TRE to my child." And I say, 00:21:54.740 --> 00:21:58.980 "Yeah, I'd love to, and it would be great if we started with you." 00:21:58.980 --> 00:21:59.860 Yeah, very good. 00:21:59.860 --> 00:22:07.300 So the parents and then the kids. Yeah, like it can be profoundly different in that 00:22:08.100 --> 00:22:13.620 when we heal the trauma and the nervous system is regulated, you know, we can experience that 00:22:13.620 --> 00:22:20.260 sense of presence that exists here because we're not depressed, we're in freeze, you know, we're 00:22:20.260 --> 00:22:27.460 not in fight, we're not, you know, we're just here, really just here. And that really excites me that 00:22:27.460 --> 00:22:34.340 humans can come to that quiet mind by doing trauma healing. Yeah, it's our natural state. It's not 00:22:34.340 --> 00:22:40.260 something exotic, you know. It's the state that one would naturally be in if one were 00:22:40.260 --> 00:22:47.220 free of accumulated trauma. Yeah, I feel, yeah, absolutely. The trouble is, and myself was 00:22:47.220 --> 00:22:53.540 included, I thought the natural state was being really bound up in a highly activated ego identity. 00:22:53.540 --> 00:22:58.180 Yeah, because that's what everybody seems to be, and so you look around and you think, well, 00:22:58.180 --> 00:23:03.220 this is what's natural, but it's not. It's abnormal, it's just common. Abnormality is common. 00:23:03.860 --> 00:23:07.520 - Yes, yes, and I say to people that come here 00:23:07.520 --> 00:23:09.420 for retreats or body work, you know, 00:23:09.420 --> 00:23:11.860 if they have a spiritual slant, 00:23:11.860 --> 00:23:14.000 and that tends to be my clients, 00:23:14.000 --> 00:23:15.680 but I say to them, 00:23:15.680 --> 00:23:20.520 have a look at the countenance of the great masters. 00:23:20.520 --> 00:23:23.460 Have a look at their sense of, 00:23:23.460 --> 00:23:28.620 you know, even, I think of Ramana Maharshi's body, 00:23:28.620 --> 00:23:30.580 who was quite deformed, 00:23:30.580 --> 00:23:32.500 is the only one that I can think of, 00:23:32.500 --> 00:23:39.740 because of it, you know, his body's quite held and yet his countenance and his nervous system 00:23:39.740 --> 00:23:45.540 and everything else is so relaxed, even around the body that's a little held. 00:23:45.540 --> 00:23:52.220 But everyone else, I think of them and I see them and the grace and the groundedness, they're 00:23:52.220 --> 00:23:56.620 not passive, they're active, but in a graceful way. 00:23:56.620 --> 00:23:57.620 Yeah. 00:23:57.620 --> 00:23:58.620 In a graceful way, yeah. 00:23:58.620 --> 00:24:00.900 Did you ever see that movie Koyaanis Kwatsi? 00:24:00.900 --> 00:24:01.900 No. 00:24:01.900 --> 00:24:08.900 I don't know the derivation of the word, it's some native tongue, perhaps Native American, but it means "world out of balance." 00:24:08.900 --> 00:24:23.900 And it's quite a harrowing movie to watch, because it just sort of comes at you at a mile a minute with just all these images of people rushing down the street in New York City, and forest fires, and bombs, and all this crazy stuff for the whole length of the movie. 00:24:23.900 --> 00:24:28.500 movie, and it means world out of balance. And I think they made one later on, and I forget 00:24:28.500 --> 00:24:33.380 the name for that one, but it was more like world imbalance, and it was just all this 00:24:33.380 --> 00:24:38.980 beautiful serene kind of stuff. Anyway, I guess the principle we're making, and it bears 00:24:38.980 --> 00:24:47.700 repeating is that it's theoretically possible for the world to be populated by saintly people. 00:24:47.700 --> 00:24:53.040 In fact, in my last interview, or the one before that, I read this quote from Yogananda 00:24:53.040 --> 00:24:57.760 that someone had sent me about how we need everyone, stockbrokers and street sweepers 00:24:57.760 --> 00:25:03.000 and this and that, to all be living Buddhas, you know, or Christ's, or people in an enlightened 00:25:03.000 --> 00:25:06.360 state and then we would have an ideal world. 00:25:06.360 --> 00:25:09.120 Yeah, I think it's in progress. 00:25:09.120 --> 00:25:11.800 I feel like it's in progress. 00:25:11.800 --> 00:25:17.500 It's involution, yeah, but I just do really feel that the trauma healing can really speed 00:25:17.500 --> 00:25:18.500 up the process. 00:25:18.500 --> 00:25:22.560 It can quite quickly make significant changes. 00:25:22.560 --> 00:25:26.720 at the end we say, "Okay, what can people do practically?" But we also say it now, 00:25:26.720 --> 00:25:33.360 a handful of them possibly could fly to Australia and hang out with you at your retreat center for 00:25:33.360 --> 00:25:36.800 a while and maybe some people will do that. It would be a cool thing to do. I'd like to do it. 00:25:36.800 --> 00:25:43.840 But practically speaking, people who are in Europe or the US or elsewhere, what can they do without 00:25:43.840 --> 00:25:50.480 having to fly around the other side of the world? I tend to share what worked in my own 00:25:50.480 --> 00:25:54.960 journey of healing because for me they 00:25:54.960 --> 00:25:56.880 were really quite pinpoint. Now they 00:25:56.880 --> 00:25:59.600 mightn't be for everyone and again 00:25:59.600 --> 00:26:00.800 discernment and feel into it yourself but 00:26:00.800 --> 00:26:04.240 for me 00:26:04.240 --> 00:26:05.120 going to a TRE instructor and learning 00:26:05.120 --> 00:26:08.720 TRE 00:26:08.720 --> 00:26:11.600 which is trauma release exercises 00:26:11.600 --> 00:26:14.880 and that was devised by David Berselli 00:26:14.880 --> 00:26:17.680 and it's really about invoking our natural 00:26:17.680 --> 00:26:18.640 healing mechanism which is to shake out 00:26:17.680 --> 00:26:23.520 contraction held in the system. So somehow when you practice TRE you physically shake? Yeah, 00:26:23.520 --> 00:26:30.240 I can now say to my body, "Would you like to tremor?" And it just starts to go. It goes, yeah. 00:26:30.240 --> 00:26:36.560 Yeah. Pulling apart the fascia, releasing the muscles, and in doing so after continued practice, 00:26:36.560 --> 00:26:44.320 the nervous system comes down to a more baseline state, which is that inner peace. So I would say, 00:26:45.280 --> 00:26:53.200 yeah, learn TRE. It's quite quick, it's incredibly quick in its processing. Like I think for me, 00:26:53.200 --> 00:27:00.160 three months my body was pain-free and because I was so dysregulated I feel like it probably took 00:27:00.160 --> 00:27:07.600 a year for the nervous system to shift, but even still a year of practice. So there's a lot of 00:27:07.600 --> 00:27:14.640 instructors worldwide. I feel like yes, it's good to go to talk therapy and talk about it, but 00:27:14.640 --> 00:27:17.840 but at the end of the day, it's in the body, 00:27:17.840 --> 00:27:20.840 it's in the tissue, it's in the nervous system. 00:27:20.840 --> 00:27:25.440 So doing this body work, this fantastic TRE process, 00:27:25.440 --> 00:27:26.680 is life-changing. 00:27:26.680 --> 00:27:30.480 Some people, after their first shake, will come out, 00:27:30.480 --> 00:27:33.200 they'll sit up and they'll look around the room 00:27:33.200 --> 00:27:35.320 and they'll be in the awake state. 00:27:35.320 --> 00:27:37.920 Mind is stilled and they say, 00:27:37.920 --> 00:27:40.880 "Oh my God, look at everything. 00:27:40.880 --> 00:27:43.880 "Ah, it's all like three-dimensional." 00:27:43.880 --> 00:27:47.140 So after one shake, they're getting a little taste 00:27:47.140 --> 00:27:50.180 of what it's like to be, not everyone of course, 00:27:50.180 --> 00:27:53.660 but some, this is the capacity that Thierry has 00:27:53.660 --> 00:27:56.320 as a path to spiritual awakening, 00:27:56.320 --> 00:27:58.880 just quieting everything down. 00:27:58.880 --> 00:28:00.920 It relaxes the body. 00:28:00.920 --> 00:28:04.420 Also, I would suggest I do something called 00:28:04.420 --> 00:28:06.960 transformational body work, 00:28:06.960 --> 00:28:11.400 which was devised by Diva D'Aricia, an Australian man. 00:28:11.400 --> 00:28:18.080 He went over and studied postural integration, which is John Painter's work, Ida Rolfe's 00:28:18.080 --> 00:28:19.760 work which is Rolfing. 00:28:19.760 --> 00:28:22.640 So these are deep tissue body works. 00:28:22.640 --> 00:28:29.240 So again, tremoring is shaking out of the armour, all this armour that we have in our 00:28:29.240 --> 00:28:33.040 body and forming up these character structures. 00:28:33.040 --> 00:28:37.740 That's another thing I'd love to mention too is the Rikian character structures. 00:28:37.740 --> 00:28:41.660 but also the body work is working into the flesh 00:28:41.660 --> 00:28:45.900 and moving the armor off the body, 00:28:45.900 --> 00:28:49.240 so the body is freer, the psyche's freer. 00:28:49.240 --> 00:28:54.080 The body work works on in utero, early childhood, 00:28:54.080 --> 00:28:59.520 past life, all of this life, intergenerational trauma. 00:28:59.520 --> 00:29:02.960 I've been on the table and experienced 00:29:02.960 --> 00:29:05.180 some of my mother's trauma. 00:29:05.180 --> 00:29:08.020 And also you get beautiful infill 00:29:08.020 --> 00:29:11.020 from transpersonal experiences. 00:29:11.020 --> 00:29:15.100 So it's both releasing and you're getting some nourishment 00:29:15.100 --> 00:29:16.460 into the system. 00:29:16.460 --> 00:29:20.860 So I would say TRE and deep tissue body work. 00:29:20.860 --> 00:29:24.780 I would say probably the most important thing, 00:29:24.780 --> 00:29:27.060 as well as releasing the armor 00:29:27.060 --> 00:29:29.860 or having it sort of help to work through 00:29:29.860 --> 00:29:32.780 is making sure that practitioner, 00:29:32.780 --> 00:29:36.620 that you feel really comfortable with your practitioner. 00:29:36.620 --> 00:29:40.180 And I think the greatest gift a practitioner can give 00:29:40.180 --> 00:29:43.020 is being fully present. 00:29:43.020 --> 00:29:46.180 For me, I feel really happy about my work 00:29:46.180 --> 00:29:49.480 because after having a series of awakenings, 00:29:49.480 --> 00:29:53.600 which I'd love to discuss too, Rick, not just awakening, 00:29:53.600 --> 00:29:58.260 is being able to be literally like presents 00:29:58.260 --> 00:30:00.540 for the body on the table. 00:30:00.540 --> 00:30:04.140 So not thinking about, as I would before awakenings, 00:30:04.140 --> 00:30:07.680 about what's for dinner or the fight I'd had with my husband, 00:30:07.680 --> 00:30:11.640 but literally being there for that body to release. 00:30:11.640 --> 00:30:15.100 So try a few practitioners. 00:30:15.100 --> 00:30:17.380 You know when they're with you 00:30:17.380 --> 00:30:19.200 or when they're in their mind away. 00:30:19.200 --> 00:30:22.100 So you really want someone present and grounded 00:30:22.100 --> 00:30:25.640 for your nervous system to have the power 00:30:25.640 --> 00:30:28.240 to be able to heal and release. 00:30:28.240 --> 00:30:32.480 And of course, you can have various tools in your toolkit. 00:30:32.480 --> 00:30:37.480 You know, an effective meditation practice or yoga practice or various other things. 00:30:37.480 --> 00:30:38.960 They're not contradictory. 00:30:38.960 --> 00:30:42.160 You can do a number of things that work for you. 00:30:42.160 --> 00:30:46.160 In my case, I've been meditating for a couple of years and I started to shake. 00:30:46.160 --> 00:30:51.280 The first time it was after a one-month meditation course that I was on and I went and got a 00:30:51.280 --> 00:30:53.120 job driving an ice cream truck. 00:30:53.120 --> 00:30:57.520 And when I was meditating, you know, I'd kind of shake as things were releasing. 00:30:57.520 --> 00:31:01.840 and while driving the truck if I stopped at a stop sign or a red light because I was sitting still, 00:31:01.840 --> 00:31:06.240 it would start to happen. But I suppose it could freak somebody out if that started to happen to 00:31:06.240 --> 00:31:11.120 them. I think there's something neurologically wrong with them, but I kind of had an understanding of 00:31:11.120 --> 00:31:16.240 what was going on, so I just went with it. And then you see groups, meditation groups, 00:31:16.240 --> 00:31:22.240 sometimes people are doing all these wild kriyas and making noises, and I think sometimes it becomes 00:31:22.240 --> 00:31:26.000 a contest of who can do the wildest 00:31:26.000 --> 00:31:28.800 kriyas, but some of it is also 00:31:28.800 --> 00:31:31.520 genuine. So perhaps the attitude should be 00:31:31.520 --> 00:31:33.680 don't milk it, don't use it as a way of 00:31:33.680 --> 00:31:34.400 showing off, but don't try to suppress it 00:31:34.400 --> 00:31:36.160 either. 00:31:36.160 --> 00:31:37.840 Absolutely, don't let, you know, if 00:31:37.840 --> 00:31:41.360 Kundalini awakens, 00:31:41.360 --> 00:31:43.120 it's an evolutionary human process, 00:31:43.120 --> 00:31:44.640 so don't let the ego run with it, but 00:31:44.640 --> 00:31:46.560 allow the Kundalini to 00:31:46.560 --> 00:31:48.080 clear what it has to clear. Yeah, 00:31:48.080 --> 00:31:50.400 beautifully said, Rick. 00:31:48.080 --> 00:31:54.000 or there was few thoughts through there. Absolutely, there's so many techniques of working with the body. 00:31:54.000 --> 00:32:01.520 Yoga, meditation, craniosacral, there's many, many techniques to help you through this. 00:32:01.520 --> 00:32:09.120 What's your attitude towards psychedelics? I'm not keen. I know a lot of people have had success, 00:32:09.120 --> 00:32:16.800 particularly they're looking now at depression and trauma. So I think as a medicinal 00:32:17.360 --> 00:32:24.880 approach, I think there's probably worth to it, but as far as quick fix for awakening, I'm not keen. 00:32:24.880 --> 00:32:27.680 Pete Yeah, I'm kind of with you there. I mean, 00:32:27.680 --> 00:32:34.000 I appreciate the work being done at Johns Hopkins and NYU and places like that, and in many cases, 00:32:34.000 --> 00:32:40.720 alcoholics or PTSD sufferers and terminal cancer patients who are terrified of death and all have 00:32:40.720 --> 00:32:46.720 wonderful transformational experiences which have long-lasting benefits, but I don't know if I've 00:32:46.720 --> 00:32:52.620 I've ever talked to anybody or met anybody who through long-term use of psychedelics has 00:32:52.620 --> 00:32:56.520 achieved what I would consider to be abiding spiritual awakening. 00:32:56.520 --> 00:33:00.160 Oh, I forget who it was, it'll come to me, but with regard to this, he said, "When you 00:33:00.160 --> 00:33:02.180 get the message, hang up the phone." 00:33:02.180 --> 00:33:06.580 So it can give you a sort of a kick and a realization that there's so much more to life 00:33:06.580 --> 00:33:13.200 than you had known, but it's not a healthy long-term strategy, I think, for most people. 00:33:13.200 --> 00:33:15.040 Alan Watts, that's who said that. 00:33:15.040 --> 00:33:24.160 Yeah, it can also, if it's not sort of evolving on your trajectory. I do a bit of Kundalini support 00:33:24.160 --> 00:33:30.480 and I get a lot of clients that, particularly young men, that have had an opening through 00:33:30.480 --> 00:33:37.440 psychedelics and it hasn't grown steadily through meditation or a spiritual practice, but they've 00:33:37.440 --> 00:33:46.240 just had some sort of experience, an experience. And then their everyday life seems useless, 00:33:46.240 --> 00:33:50.800 futile, unpleasant, and so it can cause a lot of havoc. 00:33:50.800 --> 00:33:53.920 Pete Yeah, I've been contacted by such people also. 00:33:53.920 --> 00:33:57.040 They can't hold down a job, they're living in their parents' basement or whatever, 00:33:57.040 --> 00:34:01.920 they've just been thrown out of balance by it. And then there's also the syndrome of, 00:34:01.920 --> 00:34:05.600 "Okay, maybe the next trip this weekend is going to do it for me." 00:34:05.600 --> 00:34:09.920 There's that saying, I guess it was the fable of the tortoise and the hare, 00:34:09.920 --> 00:34:15.920 "Slow and steady wins the race." Yeah, yeah. And I say to these people that we have this 00:34:15.920 --> 00:34:21.440 jivatma, we have this lifetime where we have to work through our impressions. 00:34:21.440 --> 00:34:27.360 Sure, a sense of oneness, beautiful, and beautiful when it's more sustained, 00:34:27.360 --> 00:34:33.440 but perhaps that can come through spiritual practice, loving the Guru, service, meditation, 00:34:33.440 --> 00:34:43.040 I think more profound long-term builds of this process, because we do have to have this life 00:34:43.040 --> 00:34:48.560 on planet Earth in this body to work out those samskaras. So I tell them the importance of 00:34:48.560 --> 00:34:53.680 even the personal life, the person's life. Yeah, and I'm wondering if psychedelics can 00:34:53.680 --> 00:35:01.840 work out some scars. I somehow have the feeling that if you're full of some scars, these neurophysiological 00:35:01.840 --> 00:35:05.960 gross and subtle abnormalities we've been talking about, can you really resolve them 00:35:05.960 --> 00:35:11.680 just by taking some mushrooms or something? Or are you just sort of adding a psychedelic 00:35:11.680 --> 00:35:17.600 experience to a traumatized nervous system? Well, again, you know, there is research that 00:35:17.600 --> 00:35:20.960 it helps people with PTSD to overcome it. 00:35:20.960 --> 00:35:24.640 So maybe if done properly, it can have that benefit. 00:35:24.640 --> 00:35:28.440 But I think a lot of times it's done rather recreationally 00:35:28.440 --> 00:35:30.640 and might have the reverse effect. 00:35:30.640 --> 00:35:33.960 - Yeah, look, I think there have been really good results 00:35:33.960 --> 00:35:36.080 and in the proper conditions by people 00:35:36.080 --> 00:35:37.280 that know what they're doing. 00:35:37.280 --> 00:35:40.520 But I also think just recreationally 00:35:40.520 --> 00:35:44.180 to have these awakenings now, like instant is, 00:35:44.180 --> 00:35:46.920 I don't know, it doesn't sit with me. 00:35:46.920 --> 00:35:49.320 So I have you ever done them yourself? 00:35:49.320 --> 00:36:00.520 No, but you know, you can tone, you can sit under the moon in the night and tone and have transpersonal experiences. 00:36:00.520 --> 00:36:08.520 People on the body work table, working into the flesh deeply, have transpersonal experiences. 00:36:08.520 --> 00:36:15.020 So we can understand that there is more than the gross experience. 00:36:15.920 --> 00:36:20.920 And as I implied earlier, I certainly did them back in the 60s, but I can confidently say 00:36:20.920 --> 00:36:27.620 now that I feel better all the time now than any drug ever made me feel temporarily. 00:36:27.620 --> 00:36:32.800 So there's absolutely no incentive to do anything like that because I don't think it would enhance 00:36:32.800 --> 00:36:33.800 my state. 00:36:33.800 --> 00:36:37.200 What did you want to say about awakenings as opposed to awakening? 00:36:37.200 --> 00:36:44.320 Yeah, I wanted to talk about, you know, I feel like some people, you know, have an awakening 00:36:44.320 --> 00:36:50.640 experience and I feel it's over. You know, we're all cooked and we're enlightened and 00:36:50.640 --> 00:36:55.600 you know, there's seven planes of consciousness and possibly my... 00:36:55.600 --> 00:36:56.240 Pete Mayer 00:36:56.240 --> 00:37:00.000 Nehobaba's model, right? I just listened to that article today that you sent me. 00:37:00.000 --> 00:37:02.160 Mary Gamba There's seven planes of 00:37:02.160 --> 00:37:10.640 consciousness to God-realization and I feel a lot of us that having these awakenings as the planet 00:37:10.640 --> 00:37:18.640 is awakening, maybe having that first turning towards an involution, the involutionary process. 00:37:18.640 --> 00:37:23.440 So we evolve and then we go into this involutionary process which… 00:37:23.440 --> 00:37:25.920 David Define involution so we make sure everybody 00:37:25.920 --> 00:37:27.520 understands what you mean by the word. 00:37:27.520 --> 00:37:32.840 Gail Okay, we evolve from rock to plant to fish 00:37:32.840 --> 00:37:39.680 to animal, the soul's involvement, this is Baba's cosmology, to humans. And then I 00:37:39.680 --> 00:37:43.520 I wrote down the figure because I had to have a laugh. 00:37:43.520 --> 00:37:51.240 Around 8,400,000 human lives is in Baba's cosmology, so that makes me laugh. 00:37:51.240 --> 00:37:52.800 That's a lot of human lifetimes. 00:37:52.800 --> 00:37:57.720 And not just his cosmology, other Hindu and Buddhist teachers have said similar things. 00:37:57.720 --> 00:37:58.720 Yeah. 00:37:58.720 --> 00:38:06.880 When we come to that point of going, whether the Sanskrit are light enough at some point, 00:38:06.880 --> 00:38:15.160 it's God's grace, I'm not sure what occurs, but we go, "Hmm, this isn't it. This gross world, 00:38:15.160 --> 00:38:23.600 this outer, this person, ego identity isn't it." So we start to inquire within, we start to go 00:38:23.600 --> 00:38:31.360 within. So that is what I would call the beginning of the involution. And I would say we're heading 00:38:31.360 --> 00:38:34.720 maybe, you know, maybe towards the first plane, 00:38:34.720 --> 00:38:37.440 away from that gross, dense plane. 00:38:37.440 --> 00:38:39.400 Can I read you something, Rick? 00:38:39.400 --> 00:38:40.520 - Sure. 00:38:40.520 --> 00:38:42.960 - This is Meher Baba's little paragraph 00:38:42.960 --> 00:38:47.960 on the seven planes of higher consciousness. 00:38:47.960 --> 00:38:52.760 The first plane, when the pilgrim arrives at the first plane, 00:38:52.760 --> 00:38:55.640 he experiences his first merging, 00:38:55.640 --> 00:38:59.420 which consists of the minor annihilation of the ego. 00:38:59.420 --> 00:39:06.340 The pilgrim is temporarily lost to his limited individuality and experiences bliss. 00:39:06.340 --> 00:39:10.780 And I feel like, okay, so this is a really interesting part for me. 00:39:10.780 --> 00:39:16.820 Many pilgrims who thus fallen away and in my own case, you know, I was nine months in 00:39:16.820 --> 00:39:20.580 bliss staring at the floor with no thoughts at all. 00:39:20.580 --> 00:39:25.140 You went through all these dramatic incapacitating phases. 00:39:25.140 --> 00:39:29.620 And I feel like, oh, you know, maybe we're heading towards this, you know, this first 00:39:29.620 --> 00:39:30.620 plane. 00:39:30.620 --> 00:39:34.080 I probably wouldn't hurt the world for us all to stare at the floor for nine months. 00:39:34.080 --> 00:39:35.460 Somebody would have to feed us. 00:39:35.460 --> 00:39:38.860 Okay, so this is a really interesting part for me. 00:39:38.860 --> 00:39:44.460 Many pilgrims who thus get merged in the first plane think that they have realized God and 00:39:44.460 --> 00:39:46.700 get stuck in the first plane. 00:39:46.700 --> 00:39:51.920 But if the pilgrim keeps himself free from self-delusion, or comes to realize that his 00:39:51.920 --> 00:39:56.040 His attainment is really a transitional phase in his journey. 00:39:56.040 --> 00:39:58.560 He advances further on the spiritual path 00:39:58.560 --> 00:40:01.060 and arises at the second plane. 00:40:01.060 --> 00:40:03.900 And I feel that, you know, people, 00:40:03.900 --> 00:40:07.800 particularly with just non-dual speak, 00:40:07.800 --> 00:40:10.680 where it's an intellectual understanding, 00:40:10.680 --> 00:40:13.320 and Barbara is a non-dual avatar, 00:40:13.320 --> 00:40:16.300 where he says we are not we, but one, 00:40:16.300 --> 00:40:20.480 but how much are we really experiencing that divinity? 00:40:20.480 --> 00:40:27.440 that divinity, you know, what level and I feel like and it's wonderful because when you have that first 00:40:27.440 --> 00:40:33.800 Ego annihilation and person falls away and there is just a sense of pure consciousness 00:40:33.800 --> 00:40:38.800 and I feel like a lot of us have experienced that and a lot of Western spiritual teachers and 00:40:38.800 --> 00:40:42.080 beings have experienced that and 00:40:42.080 --> 00:40:49.260 Yet, it's the beginning of the involution. There's a Tibetan saying don't mistake 00:40:50.000 --> 00:40:55.360 understanding for realization. And just to comment very briefly on what you just said, 00:40:55.360 --> 00:41:00.680 I think it would be a good thing for all of us to have drilled into our heads that growth 00:41:00.680 --> 00:41:07.560 is going to be a continuous process and if you feel you're done, question that. There's 00:41:07.560 --> 00:41:13.640 teachings like that in many traditions where the tradition warns against the sense of jumping 00:41:13.640 --> 00:41:18.860 to the conclusion that one is finished. It can be a trap and it can be dangerous if one 00:41:18.860 --> 00:41:21.100 presumes to be a teacher at that point. 00:41:21.100 --> 00:41:26.900 And in fact, in the Zen tradition, they apparently advocate waiting 10 years after your realization, 00:41:26.900 --> 00:41:29.740 see how it goes, before you start teaching. 00:41:29.740 --> 00:41:32.620 I've quoted Saint Teresa of Avila many times. 00:41:32.620 --> 00:41:36.500 She says that it appears that God himself is on the journey. 00:41:36.500 --> 00:41:39.140 If that's true, then certainly we are. 00:41:39.140 --> 00:41:43.240 Which is not to say that we're going to be forever chasing the dangling carrot, hoping 00:41:43.240 --> 00:41:47.500 for some kind of fulfillment to somehow come to us. 00:41:47.500 --> 00:41:49.140 The goal can be all along the path. 00:41:49.140 --> 00:41:53.700 At every stage, like you said, even at stage one, there can be a great bliss and release 00:41:53.700 --> 00:41:57.380 from the binding influence of the ego and so on. 00:41:57.380 --> 00:42:03.580 And every stage, I think you're going to outline seven stages, has very beautiful characteristics 00:42:03.580 --> 00:42:09.260 that one can enjoy, but one shouldn't just rest on one's laurels at any one of these 00:42:09.260 --> 00:42:10.260 stages. 00:42:10.260 --> 00:42:14.200 Or assume it's done, and I feel like a lot of people do. 00:42:14.200 --> 00:42:16.480 I'm glad I've got Barbara in these seven stages 00:42:16.480 --> 00:42:19.880 of realizations because it feels so complete 00:42:19.880 --> 00:42:22.080 when you've been trapped in that crystallized 00:42:22.080 --> 00:42:27.080 ego identity shell and person has that first falling away. 00:42:27.080 --> 00:42:30.660 It is blissful, you know, that person's not there 00:42:30.660 --> 00:42:33.560 trying to run the show in that contracted form. 00:42:33.560 --> 00:42:36.840 It does feel so complete and so it is beautiful 00:42:36.840 --> 00:42:40.120 to perhaps mentor and share that first shift 00:42:40.120 --> 00:42:43.540 in consciousness because other people are still struggling 00:42:43.540 --> 00:42:50.900 in their contracted form. So I think it's all okay, but I have the suspicion that maybe some people, 00:42:50.900 --> 00:42:57.060 the person or the ego takes it and they run with it and I think, "Oh, be careful." 00:42:57.060 --> 00:43:01.940 You've heard of the Association for Spiritual Integrity, perhaps you're a member. 00:43:01.940 --> 00:43:08.660 There's so many examples of spiritual teachers using their supposed status to excuse sexual 00:43:08.660 --> 00:43:14.340 abuse and other misbehaviors with their students. And that's a great danger for them. In fact, 00:43:14.340 --> 00:43:18.740 stage four, which you'll probably describe can be a stage which, you know, one can be gifted 00:43:18.740 --> 00:43:25.380 with tremendous powers. And if those are misused, you can be back to square one, as a result. 00:43:25.380 --> 00:43:30.740 Mary: Just done. Yeah. That's why I say to people that come here for healing work or 00:43:30.740 --> 00:43:40.100 interested in awakening, I say to them, "If you have the propensity to have a guru or a teacher, 00:43:40.100 --> 00:43:46.100 I would choose an avatar because they're not going to have the underlying lack of 00:43:46.100 --> 00:43:50.820 what-more-than-one information. They're not going to have that integrity, that purity, 00:43:50.820 --> 00:43:57.380 that integrity." So, I say, "You know, there's plenty of avatars, you know, Jesus, Buddha." 00:43:57.380 --> 00:44:03.460 Yeah, there have been plenty of people who have said they were avatars and probably were. 00:44:03.460 --> 00:44:08.500 I can also think of people living now who say they are avatars and I'm a little skeptical 00:44:08.500 --> 00:44:09.500 of some of them. 00:44:09.500 --> 00:44:13.860 Yeah, don't just jump at the first avatar who puts out a shingle. 00:44:13.860 --> 00:44:14.860 Absolutely. 00:44:14.860 --> 00:44:21.620 I think there are, well, ones that I feel totally confident in are Jesus, Buddha, Krishna, 00:44:21.620 --> 00:44:29.380 Zoroaster, Muhammad, and Meher Baba, I feel is the latest form of that first realized soul. 00:44:29.380 --> 00:44:31.820 So there's plenty to choose from there. 00:44:31.820 --> 00:44:38.300 And yet look, spiritual teachers can possibly help you with that first one, but why not 00:44:38.300 --> 00:44:39.900 cut to the chase? 00:44:39.900 --> 00:44:44.940 Why not head to the creme de la creme is my suggestion. 00:44:44.940 --> 00:44:47.900 We talked about this a little bit in our first interview, but then, you know, some people 00:44:47.900 --> 00:44:49.220 say, well, I want a living teacher. 00:44:49.220 --> 00:44:55.420 I want somebody that I can actually talk to and interact with and I'm not so good at relating 00:44:55.420 --> 00:44:59.780 to an abstract being living on some other plane. 00:44:59.780 --> 00:45:03.980 And again, I would say they're not abstract just because they're not here in the physical 00:45:03.980 --> 00:45:04.980 body. 00:45:04.980 --> 00:45:05.980 They're very, very real. 00:45:05.980 --> 00:45:08.720 They're very palatable. 00:45:08.720 --> 00:45:16.700 You can smell them and feel them and they can actually guide the person's life very profoundly 00:45:16.700 --> 00:45:18.660 and pinpoint. 00:45:18.660 --> 00:45:22.660 I wouldn't say that they are abstract even though they're not. 00:45:22.660 --> 00:45:28.220 You know, you are not claiming to be a spiritual teacher per se, you mainly do TRE and body 00:45:28.220 --> 00:45:34.180 work and stuff like that, but would you discourage people from associating with a so-called, 00:45:34.180 --> 00:45:38.900 "Oh, you've been to Mooji, you're really into Mooji, he doesn't claim to be an avatar, but 00:45:38.900 --> 00:45:40.180 he's definitely alive." 00:45:40.180 --> 00:45:46.500 Yeah, no, I wouldn't discourage anyone from anything, and Mooji was profoundly influential 00:45:46.500 --> 00:45:50.660 in my own awakening journey, as Mayor Bhabha has been. 00:45:50.660 --> 00:45:55.220 I wouldn't dissuade, but I would probably more, 00:45:55.220 --> 00:45:57.140 you know, everyone has got their own path, 00:45:57.140 --> 00:45:58.600 and if that's where they're drawn, 00:45:58.600 --> 00:45:59.680 that's where they're drawn. 00:45:59.680 --> 00:46:03.480 But I would say if you can go to the top, why not? 00:46:03.480 --> 00:46:06.260 Because they can take you through 00:46:06.260 --> 00:46:08.640 the seven planes of consciousness. 00:46:08.640 --> 00:46:10.960 The spiritual teachers can probably help you 00:46:10.960 --> 00:46:13.300 understand the ego identity. 00:46:13.300 --> 00:46:16.880 and you know, I can perhaps talk about that, 00:46:16.880 --> 00:46:23.100 what ego is and how to relax the person 00:46:23.100 --> 00:46:25.380 and how to relax the character structures 00:46:25.380 --> 00:46:26.980 through trauma healing, 00:46:26.980 --> 00:46:31.140 and you can have experience of the beingness more and more. 00:46:31.140 --> 00:46:33.580 So I wouldn't dissuade anyone, 00:46:33.580 --> 00:46:36.340 but I would probably encourage them, go to the top, 00:46:36.340 --> 00:46:39.420 because to get through the last phases, 00:46:39.420 --> 00:46:42.420 you know, in our 8,400,000 lifetimes, 00:46:42.420 --> 00:46:49.900 400,000 lifetimes. You need God's grace and you do need the guide of an avatar or a perfect 00:46:49.900 --> 00:46:50.900 master. 00:46:50.900 --> 00:46:55.860 I'll tell you a story. I interviewed a guy about a month ago named Philip Weber, who 00:46:55.860 --> 00:47:01.900 had actually remembered a past life in which he was with Yogananda and he was really pretty 00:47:01.900 --> 00:47:06.660 much into Yogananda's movement in this life, although also a bit of a free agent doing 00:47:06.660 --> 00:47:11.180 different things and checking out different things. But he went into this deep state at 00:47:11.180 --> 00:47:15.940 one point, he was in some kind of samadhi state where he wasn't even conscious of his body, 00:47:15.940 --> 00:47:17.820 and Mayor Baba appeared. 00:47:17.820 --> 00:47:22.420 So there he is in the presence of Mayor Baba, and there was this little bump on his side 00:47:22.420 --> 00:47:28.180 in this vision or this experience, and Mayor Baba took this little knife and cut this bump 00:47:28.180 --> 00:47:34.660 off, and this worm-like creature emerged from it and was kind of like wrrrrr, writhing around, 00:47:34.660 --> 00:47:40.180 and you know, and Phillips said, "Get it away from me, get it out," and Baba actually completely 00:47:40.180 --> 00:47:44.900 extricated it. But then he said, "Hey, how come you did this? I thought Yogananda was my guru." 00:47:44.900 --> 00:47:47.620 Then Baba said to him, "Well, on this level, we're all the same." 00:47:47.620 --> 00:47:48.820 - Yeah, beautiful. 00:47:48.820 --> 00:47:53.460 - So, it's just sort of this astral exorcism or something. 00:47:53.460 --> 00:48:01.060 - Yeah, gosh, and don't they occur often in healings? Yeah, I had a client on the table 00:48:01.060 --> 00:48:07.940 the other day and she's on her third round of body work and Mayor Barbara appeared to her 00:48:07.940 --> 00:48:12.980 And at the same time she was chanting Ma and her body was going into spontaneous 00:48:12.980 --> 00:48:19.380 sacred dance gestures while she was having body work. So it was all happening in the healing room 00:48:19.380 --> 00:48:25.060 there too. So yeah, I don't feel because they're not in the body that they're not 00:48:25.060 --> 00:48:30.260 totally available. I feel they really are. Just to pursue that line of thought a little bit more, 00:48:30.260 --> 00:48:33.380 and a question just came in from a listener which I'll read to you in a minute. 00:48:34.020 --> 00:48:41.140 How do you protect against imagination or wishful thinking? What if a person gets lost in sort of 00:48:41.140 --> 00:48:47.940 fantasies about disembodied masters and stuff? Is there any kind of safety measure to assure one that 00:48:47.940 --> 00:48:54.820 one is actually connecting with the real deal and not connecting with some malevolent entity 00:48:54.820 --> 00:49:02.900 that might be posing as a master? Yeah, I don't sort of tend to worry about that. I feel if you're 00:49:02.900 --> 00:49:09.940 calling out to God with your whole heart and being, then God's going to be there in an instant. 00:49:09.940 --> 00:49:15.060 You know, what does, I think, Barbara says it too, you know, "One or more gather in my name, 00:49:15.060 --> 00:49:24.420 I will be there." Jesus said it, yeah. I don't feel that anything benevolent could appear, 00:49:24.420 --> 00:49:29.540 but also too, if you're in a bit of a spiritual emergence and things are going a bit rocky, 00:49:29.540 --> 00:49:36.020 I would say that the God element won't tell you to do harmful things to yourself or to anyone else. 00:49:36.020 --> 00:49:40.580 Pete So that's for sure. I mean, that would be a good litmus test for ascertaining the 00:49:40.580 --> 00:49:46.740 legitimacy and the beneficial nature of anything you're connecting with, living or ascended. 00:49:46.740 --> 00:49:48.580 Barbara Yeah, if you're connecting 00:49:48.580 --> 00:49:53.700 someone and it's going a bit skew-whiff, then you need a bit of help there. 00:49:53.700 --> 00:49:58.900 Pete Yeah. Let me ask this question that came in. I think it'll be relevant to our conversation. 00:49:58.900 --> 00:50:02.740 This is from Santiago Gomez in Colombia asking, 00:50:02.740 --> 00:50:06.260 "What role do you think Kundalini plays in the releasing of trauma?" 00:50:06.260 --> 00:50:08.180 I think it plays a big role. 00:50:08.180 --> 00:50:13.380 Yeah, I think Kundalini refines the whole system, 00:50:13.380 --> 00:50:15.220 enlightens the whole load. 00:50:15.220 --> 00:50:21.380 I think it's a human evolutionary, involutionary system 00:50:21.380 --> 00:50:24.740 that clears our vessel, clears out everything. 00:50:24.740 --> 00:50:27.700 Why I say to people, "Do body work and TRE," 00:50:27.700 --> 00:50:34.820 because if you're on a spiritual path and you're already clearing out the system, when Kundalini 00:50:34.820 --> 00:50:41.460 comes there's maybe less to clear because you've done the gross bodily ones. So that can be helpful 00:50:41.460 --> 00:50:48.020 but I feel Kundalini is a profound process in clearing everything and enlightening us. 00:50:48.020 --> 00:50:54.100 I think that's a good point that bears emphasis, which is that I think people who have trouble 00:50:54.100 --> 00:51:00.500 with Kundalini, who have traumatic experiences when Kundalini awakens or aren't able to function 00:51:00.500 --> 00:51:05.260 well and stuff like that, it's because Kundalini is encountering so many obstacles, there's 00:51:05.260 --> 00:51:11.100 so much to clear, and it's hitting blockages and perhaps being diverted off to side channels 00:51:11.100 --> 00:51:12.180 and stuff. 00:51:12.180 --> 00:51:16.520 So I think that what you're saying is very true, that the more we can clear that stuff 00:51:16.520 --> 00:51:19.660 out, the smoother the Kundalini process will be. 00:51:19.660 --> 00:51:25.580 Yeah, and then you get to the beautiful, you know, the mudras and the sacred dances and 00:51:25.580 --> 00:51:31.580 the beautiful, enlightening, enlivening parts of Kundalini as opposed to the more difficult 00:51:31.580 --> 00:51:34.660 parts, yeah, which are still wonderful, really. 00:51:34.660 --> 00:51:39.340 But, yeah, if you do the trauma healing, Rick, first, you've cleared the system a lot. 00:51:39.340 --> 00:51:44.940 Do you think that everybody goes through some kind of Kundalini awakening in the process 00:51:44.940 --> 00:51:45.940 of evolution? 00:51:45.940 --> 00:51:48.420 Is that like just a necessary component of it? 00:51:48.420 --> 00:51:53.260 I don't have a definitive answer, my suspicion is probably. 00:51:53.260 --> 00:51:58.380 If the whole Kundalini Vidya, the whole knowledge of Kundalini is valid, then it would seem that 00:51:58.380 --> 00:52:00.220 the Kundalini has to be involved. 00:52:00.220 --> 00:52:06.140 This is one way of explaining what the awakening process is, but it needs to do its thing. 00:52:06.140 --> 00:52:11.180 And it's described across so many traditions in so many different, you know, we're using 00:52:11.180 --> 00:52:17.980 the term Kundalini, but it's described as Christianity, the Holy Spirit perhaps, or other 00:52:17.980 --> 00:52:22.040 traditions, which I don't think someone would know about. 00:52:22.040 --> 00:52:26.160 Someone would come from a tradition, perhaps listening to this, and they would use another 00:52:26.160 --> 00:52:27.160 word for it. 00:52:27.160 --> 00:52:32.620 So, it does seem to be an evolutionary process of the human beings. 00:52:32.620 --> 00:52:40.680 I guess, Rick, I don't know, that it's probably someone in one of these 8,400,000 human lifetimes 00:52:40.680 --> 00:52:43.540 when it's time. 00:52:43.540 --> 00:52:47.940 Some people say that the caduceus, that symbol of modern medicine with the snake coiling 00:52:47.940 --> 00:52:50.820 around a staff is symbolic of kundalini. 00:52:50.820 --> 00:52:51.820 Yeah, yeah. 00:52:51.820 --> 00:52:56.860 You can say because we're mentioning her, she's having a little bit of a run in my body. 00:52:56.860 --> 00:52:57.860 Yeah. 00:52:57.860 --> 00:52:59.620 So, it's getting a bit busy. 00:52:59.620 --> 00:53:04.400 But I guess it's worth mentioning that kundalini, it shouldn't be a scary thing. 00:53:04.400 --> 00:53:09.180 It's not necessarily going to cause your loved ones to lock you up. 00:53:09.180 --> 00:53:15.140 It can be smooth and something good is happening and it should just be dealt with. 00:53:15.140 --> 00:53:16.840 For one thing, it shouldn't be forced. 00:53:16.840 --> 00:53:21.120 I mean there shouldn't be some kind of great effort made to awaken it, you know, doing 00:53:21.120 --> 00:53:25.640 fast pranayama for two hours or something could get you in big trouble. 00:53:25.640 --> 00:53:30.940 When it's time, it will happen and again it's this sort of, perhaps the Western mind that 00:53:30.940 --> 00:53:35.160 wants, you know, awakening now or kundalini now again. 00:53:35.160 --> 00:53:38.840 When it's time, I think that's fantastic. 00:53:38.840 --> 00:53:44.680 It can be, my own process was quite tricky, Rick, the Kundalini process, you know, it 00:53:44.680 --> 00:53:48.240 had a lot of blocks even though I had done a lot of trauma healing. 00:53:48.240 --> 00:53:54.760 So mine was pretty dramatic and intense and quite funny at times because, you know, you 00:53:54.760 --> 00:53:58.440 can be burst into spontaneous yoga poses and... 00:53:58.440 --> 00:54:01.440 Yeah, you're doing that in restaurants and stuff as I recall. 00:54:01.440 --> 00:54:07.920 Yeah, and I don't do yoga, so one night here I ran out onto the, you know, had a heavy breathing 00:54:07.920 --> 00:54:13.200 pattern that came on spontaneously. I ran out onto the front lawn and launched into a, 00:54:13.200 --> 00:54:16.720 I don't even know what they are, a backwards something or other. 00:54:16.720 --> 00:54:21.120 >> Back bend or something. >> Yeah, thank you. My body's not up for that, 00:54:21.120 --> 00:54:27.760 but it managed it at the time. So, it was, you know, in hindsight quite funny because 00:54:27.760 --> 00:54:31.440 I'm not that physically fit. >> Yeah. 00:54:31.440 --> 00:54:32.280 - Yeah. 00:54:32.280 --> 00:54:34.400 - But it did it, you know, my consciousness, 00:54:34.400 --> 00:54:38.040 you know, blew out through into the galaxies 00:54:38.040 --> 00:54:39.940 and it was, you know, magnificent, 00:54:39.940 --> 00:54:44.120 but sometimes it can be quite busy and overwhelming 00:54:44.120 --> 00:54:46.880 and particularly if you haven't dealt with your trauma 00:54:46.880 --> 00:54:48.900 in the system beforehand. 00:54:48.900 --> 00:54:51.880 But again, if you can just relax around it, 00:54:51.880 --> 00:54:55.600 know that it's a human process, breathe. 00:54:55.600 --> 00:55:00.400 I can say to Kundalini clients, perhaps learn TRE 00:55:00.400 --> 00:55:03.840 because that will not only help release the trauma, 00:55:03.840 --> 00:55:07.760 but you will get used to and begin to enjoy 00:55:07.760 --> 00:55:11.320 spontaneous movement as part of being a human being. 00:55:11.320 --> 00:55:12.160 - Yeah. 00:55:12.160 --> 00:55:14.760 - And in TRE, you can control it. 00:55:14.760 --> 00:55:17.540 You can stop and start the spontaneous movement. 00:55:17.540 --> 00:55:19.920 And so that gives you a sense of, 00:55:19.920 --> 00:55:22.800 ah, yes, my body knows what to do. 00:55:22.800 --> 00:55:25.360 My body knows how to heal itself. 00:55:25.360 --> 00:55:28.040 I think in tribes, 00:55:28.040 --> 00:55:30.940 I can remember seeing two things on television as a kid 00:55:30.940 --> 00:55:31.940 that stuck with me. 00:55:31.940 --> 00:55:35.200 And one was a tribe dancing around a fire 00:55:35.200 --> 00:55:38.360 and they danced and danced and danced 00:55:38.360 --> 00:55:41.280 until the spontaneous movement came. 00:55:41.280 --> 00:55:44.200 And I remember thinking, gosh, that's incredible. 00:55:44.200 --> 00:55:46.440 These people are really living, you know. 00:55:46.440 --> 00:55:49.960 I was very excited by the fire, the elements 00:55:49.960 --> 00:55:51.760 and the human beings and their bodies 00:55:51.760 --> 00:55:55.060 doing these incredible spontaneous releases. 00:55:55.060 --> 00:55:57.840 Now they would have done that every month, 00:55:57.840 --> 00:56:06.960 probably around the full moon, or other acknowledgements that this unwinding is a natural process for 00:56:06.960 --> 00:56:12.040 bodies as we have trauma, we also have a counterpart which is releasing trauma. 00:56:12.040 --> 00:56:17.880 So even just understanding that, putting it in, this is a helpful thing. 00:56:17.880 --> 00:56:22.820 And it's worth mentioning, I suppose, that trauma release might be accompanied not only 00:56:22.820 --> 00:56:28.980 by physical movements, but by emotional upwellings and, you know, various things like that. 00:56:28.980 --> 00:56:29.980 Absolutely, yeah. 00:56:29.980 --> 00:56:37.020 I feel like even when people have profound awakenings, they will be called back to the 00:56:37.020 --> 00:56:40.660 person, the ego identity, because they'll be triggered in life. 00:56:40.660 --> 00:56:46.180 So, we have to work through the wounds, the emotional wounding, we have to deal with it 00:56:46.180 --> 00:56:48.260 to be freer and freer. 00:56:48.260 --> 00:56:52.360 Sometimes when people have profound awakenings, all hell breaks loose, you know, that happened 00:56:52.360 --> 00:56:54.720 to that fellow Phil Weber I was just talking about. 00:56:54.720 --> 00:56:58.480 He had this really beautiful awakening and next thing you know he was swearing like a 00:56:58.480 --> 00:57:03.280 sailor and just going through all this, you know, gunk, just purging himself of all this 00:57:03.280 --> 00:57:04.280 negativity. 00:57:04.280 --> 00:57:09.880 (EP) It seems that everything that's left in the system will come out to be dealt with 00:57:09.880 --> 00:57:11.880 and that's hard work. 00:57:11.880 --> 00:57:14.880 (RT) You mentioned you studied with Bonnie Greenwell. 00:57:14.880 --> 00:57:19.120 I had the privilege of interviewing her a couple of times before she passed away and 00:57:19.120 --> 00:57:21.080 meeting her in person. 00:57:21.080 --> 00:57:24.440 You included that in your notes, is there anything you wanted to say about Bonnie? 00:57:24.440 --> 00:57:32.160 I just loved being in her class, in her energy field, just a really beautiful, grounded, wonderful 00:57:32.160 --> 00:57:35.040 human being, yeah, glorious, glorious. 00:57:35.040 --> 00:57:42.080 And yeah, to do that study with her just to assist people to be comfortable with the process. 00:57:42.080 --> 00:57:44.440 It was a really enjoyable study. 00:57:44.440 --> 00:57:51.920 I did it after I had had big Kundalini awakenings and years and years of Kundalini doing its 00:57:51.920 --> 00:57:57.440 thing and then I saw Bonnie Grenwell doing a course and she at the time knew that she 00:57:57.440 --> 00:58:03.400 was dying of cancer and she wanted to teach a few people around the world to sort of carry 00:58:03.400 --> 00:58:07.000 on her thread of work to help people. 00:58:07.000 --> 00:58:11.800 There's another one I've interviewed named Joan Sheever Peter Harrigan who has written 00:58:11.800 --> 00:58:16.440 a massive book about Kundalini, everything you ever wanted to know about Kundalini you might learn in 00:58:16.440 --> 00:58:21.960 that book. And she had a facility in Tennessee where you could go for a couple weeks with a small, 00:58:21.960 --> 00:58:27.080 you know, just four people or something and work intensively with her or with her Indian guru. 00:58:27.080 --> 00:58:31.960 And she stopped doing that, but she's also trained some people to carry on 00:58:31.960 --> 00:58:37.960 that work. So if you look up my interview with Joan Harrigan, you'll see a link to her website. 00:58:37.960 --> 00:58:43.960 Yes, she's extremely, extremely knowledgeable. I suppose what I offer is a grounded nervous 00:58:43.960 --> 00:58:49.040 system to... like I don't have the knowledge of the woman you were just speaking about, 00:58:49.040 --> 00:58:50.040 I've forgotten her name. 00:58:50.040 --> 00:58:51.040 Joan, yeah. 00:58:51.040 --> 00:58:56.840 She's extremely knowledgeable about every aspect of the history. I don't have that. 00:58:56.840 --> 00:59:03.280 What I offer is a grounded nervous system to just reassure people that... and then I 00:59:03.280 --> 00:59:05.360 try and encourage them to learn TRE. 00:59:05.360 --> 00:59:09.280 No, that's great. People don't have to get overly intellectual about it. I never read 00:59:09.280 --> 00:59:12.960 her whole book, I just read some of it and thought, wow, this is really a treasure trove 00:59:12.960 --> 00:59:13.960 of knowledge. 00:59:13.960 --> 00:59:21.040 Too much for my brain, it wasn't that fascinating, but incredible work, and if you want to really 00:59:21.040 --> 00:59:25.800 understand it, then you would do it. I just enjoyed the experience. 00:59:25.800 --> 00:59:31.160 So let's see, we were going through those seven stages, so we can talk a bit about that 00:59:31.160 --> 00:59:34.640 and some other cool things in your notes here that we want to be sure to cover. 00:59:34.640 --> 00:59:37.200 Okay, I'll go through the planes. 00:59:37.200 --> 00:59:38.560 The second plane. 00:59:38.560 --> 00:59:40.800 Merging into the second plane is called 00:59:40.800 --> 00:59:42.800 the annihilation of the false. 00:59:42.800 --> 00:59:46.560 The pilgrim is now absorbed in bliss and infinite light. 00:59:46.560 --> 00:59:48.800 Some think that they have attained the goal 00:59:48.800 --> 00:59:51.280 and get stranded in the second plane. 00:59:51.280 --> 00:59:54.280 But others who keep themselves free from self-delusion 00:59:54.280 --> 00:59:57.320 march onwards and enter the third plane. 00:59:57.320 --> 00:59:58.480 The third plane. 00:59:58.480 --> 01:00:00.160 The merging into the third plane 01:00:00.160 --> 01:00:02.960 is called the annihilation of the apparent. 01:00:02.960 --> 01:00:10.460 Here the pilgrim loses for days all consciousness of the body or the world and experiences infinite power. 01:00:10.460 --> 01:00:16.160 But since he has no consciousness of the world, he has no occasion for the expression of his power. 01:00:16.160 --> 01:00:18.760 This is the state of divine coma. 01:00:18.760 --> 01:00:22.760 Consciousness is now completely withdrawn from the entire world. 01:00:22.760 --> 01:00:24.460 The fourth plane. 01:00:24.460 --> 01:00:29.560 If the pilgrim advances still further, he arrives at the fourth plane. 01:00:29.560 --> 01:00:35.000 The merging into the fourth plane is called the annihilation, leading toward freedom. 01:00:35.000 --> 01:00:39.640 The pilgrim experiences a peculiar state of consciousness at the fourth plane, 01:00:39.640 --> 01:00:47.160 since he now not only feels infinite power, but has plenty of occasions for the expression of that 01:00:47.160 --> 01:00:54.040 power. He can know everything. He can, for example, know what anyone situated in any part of the globe 01:00:54.040 --> 01:00:59.120 is thinking or doing. Further, he has not only occasions for the use of his power, 01:00:59.120 --> 01:01:04.600 but has a definite incantation to express them. If he falls prey to this 01:01:04.600 --> 01:01:09.200 temptation, he goes on expressing powers and gets caught up in the alluring 01:01:09.200 --> 01:01:13.800 possibilities of the fourth plane. The fourth plane is for this reason one of 01:01:13.800 --> 01:01:18.840 the most difficult and dangerous planes to cross. The pilgrim is never spiritually 01:01:18.840 --> 01:01:24.960 safe and has always the possibility of a reversion until he has successfully 01:01:24.960 --> 01:01:29.360 crossed the fourth plane and arrived at the fifth plane. That's what you were 01:01:29.360 --> 01:01:34.560 talking about Rick, where we can return to stone, you know, a bit like Monopoly but a 01:01:34.560 --> 01:01:39.360 bit more serious. The fifth plane. Emerging into the fifth plane is called 01:01:39.360 --> 01:01:44.360 the annihilation of all desires. Here the incessant activity of the lower intellect 01:01:44.360 --> 01:01:51.080 comes to a standstill. He does not think in the ordinary way, yet he is indirectly a source of 01:01:51.080 --> 01:01:58.280 many thoughts inspired in others. He sees, but not with the physical eyes. Mind speaks with mind and 01:01:58.280 --> 01:02:03.400 there is neither worry nor doubt. He is now spiritually safe and beyond the possibility 01:02:03.400 --> 01:02:09.000 of a downfall. And yet many a pilgrim on this exalted plane find it difficult to resist the 01:02:09.000 --> 01:02:14.760 delusion that they have attained Godhood. In his delusion he thinks and says 'I am God' and 01:02:14.760 --> 01:02:21.880 believes himself to have arrived at the end of the spiritual path. But if he moves on he perceives his 01:02:21.880 --> 01:02:29.480 mistake and advances to the sixth plane. The sixth plane. The merging into the sixth plane is called 01:02:29.480 --> 01:02:36.200 the annihilation of the self in the beloved. Now the pilgrim sees God directly and clearly, 01:02:36.200 --> 01:02:40.200 as an ordinary person sees the different things of this world. 01:02:40.200 --> 01:02:48.520 This continued perception and enjoyment of God does not suffer a break even for an instant, 01:02:48.520 --> 01:02:52.120 yet he does not become one with God the infinite. 01:02:52.120 --> 01:02:54.360 The seventh plane. 01:02:54.360 --> 01:02:59.320 If the pilgrim ascends to the seventh plane he experiences the last merging, 01:02:59.320 --> 01:03:03.240 which is called the final annihilation of the self in God. 01:03:03.240 --> 01:03:09.800 Through his merging the pilgrim loses his separate existence and becomes permanently united with God. 01:03:09.800 --> 01:03:17.080 He is now one with God and experiences himself as being none other than God himself. 01:03:17.080 --> 01:03:23.800 The seventh plane is the terminus of the spiritual path, the goal of all search and endeavor. 01:03:23.800 --> 01:03:30.360 It is conscious Godhood. It is the only real awakening. The pilgrim has now reached the 01:03:30.360 --> 01:03:38.120 other shore of the vast ocean of imagination and realizes that this last truth is the only truth 01:03:38.120 --> 01:03:45.560 and that all other stages on the path are entirely illusory. He has arrived at the final destination. 01:03:45.560 --> 01:03:47.400 Paul You probably don't want to answer this, 01:03:47.400 --> 01:03:49.080 but do you have any idea what plane you're on? 01:03:49.080 --> 01:03:51.880 Mary I think I might be heading maybe 01:03:51.880 --> 01:03:54.200 towards the first one. Paul 01:03:54.200 --> 01:03:57.880 That's a good honest answer. All these planes sound a little bit fantastical. 01:03:57.880 --> 01:03:59.480 Mary They're beyond our... 01:03:59.480 --> 01:04:05.480 Not too many people have reached these planes. In fact, there's this whole teaching called 01:04:05.480 --> 01:04:12.280 the Law of One and it outlines similar strata and you can only get so far as a human being 01:04:12.280 --> 01:04:17.640 actually and then after that you're on some other level of existence proceeding through 01:04:17.640 --> 01:04:24.640 various planes and strata. So, is it implied that all these seven planes are human experiences 01:04:24.640 --> 01:04:27.160 or kind of superhuman? 01:04:27.160 --> 01:04:33.080 talks about the first three stages being the subtle, you still have a human body, the subtle, 01:04:33.080 --> 01:04:39.960 and then four is a little bit subtle and mental, and then five and six are the mental planes, 01:04:39.960 --> 01:04:41.720 and it's beyond my perception. 01:04:41.720 --> 01:04:45.760 I've just had a few little awakenings. 01:04:45.760 --> 01:04:52.540 I often think when I see people teaching, and I think, yeah, it's nice to mentor people 01:04:52.540 --> 01:04:57.660 out of that psychological suffering of the bound ego identity and that's perhaps our role, 01:04:57.660 --> 01:05:01.100 but to think that we are God realized. 01:05:01.100 --> 01:05:02.620 Pete Could be presumptuous. 01:05:02.620 --> 01:05:06.860 Mary Yeah, and probably trapping a lot of 01:05:06.860 --> 01:05:12.540 Western spiritual teachers in one very small mode of heading towards the first plane. 01:05:12.540 --> 01:05:15.580 Pete Yeah, I hate to sound so critical, but I've 01:05:15.580 --> 01:05:21.980 actually heard of teachers claiming to be God realized and then seducing a lot of their women 01:05:21.980 --> 01:05:27.500 students and blaming it on God. "Oh, I'm not doing it, God is doing it." That kind of thing. 01:05:27.500 --> 01:05:31.900 It's going to have repercussions on your spiritual evolution if you do that kind of thing. 01:05:31.900 --> 01:05:37.580 Absolutely. So, I think, yeah, it's nice to mentor people and I probably go from 01:05:37.580 --> 01:05:42.780 Barber's incredible cosmology where we don't know where we are in our human lives, but 01:05:42.780 --> 01:05:49.900 some of us have had openings and tastes and awakenings. And I suppose what I would like to 01:05:49.900 --> 01:05:55.720 share is what I said before Rick, when some of us have had heart awakenings, so 01:05:55.720 --> 01:06:00.760 unity consciousness, the hearts open, head awakenings where you know you have that 01:06:00.760 --> 01:06:05.200 what Baba describes as that person falling away, the ego identity falling 01:06:05.200 --> 01:06:12.160 away, to we've become vast and spacious and dry and in my case I became very 01:06:12.160 --> 01:06:17.240 dysfunctional and if you recall our first interview eight years ago I was 01:06:17.240 --> 01:06:23.560 pretty ungrounded and didn't have a lot to say and I had only come back to the 01:06:23.560 --> 01:06:28.460 body maybe four days before our interview. You did pretty good, I listened to it 01:06:28.460 --> 01:06:32.180 this past week and you know I talked a lot because it was a little hard to get 01:06:32.180 --> 01:06:39.240 you going. And at that time I was four days into realizing that I was a person. 01:06:39.240 --> 01:06:44.240 I felt like the vast spaciousness and if you I was having conversations with 01:06:44.240 --> 01:06:51.120 Irene about, "Is there a person?" and I would have said then, "No, there is not." 01:06:51.120 --> 01:06:55.040 Which is what a lot of spiritual teachers emphasize these days. 01:06:55.040 --> 01:07:02.120 I would now say that I am attempting to open and be the hollow bone for God to come through 01:07:02.120 --> 01:07:07.880 me and not be the doer, but I can only do that to the extent that I have realized. 01:07:07.880 --> 01:07:14.440 So I feel a lot of people get stuck and I was in the vast spacious of the first awakening, 01:07:14.440 --> 01:07:20.960 the head awakening for nine months with no thoughts and I would see my body waking up 01:07:20.960 --> 01:07:24.000 in the night, "Oh, my body's waking up." 01:07:24.000 --> 01:07:27.560 My husband would be laying next to me and I'd be, "Who's he?" 01:07:27.560 --> 01:07:32.160 I don't think human life meant anything for a long time. 01:07:32.160 --> 01:07:38.520 But four days before the interview with you, God gave me that beautiful night of a slideshow. 01:07:38.520 --> 01:07:47.200 It was all night and I saw and experienced myself as everything, the rocks, all the creatures, 01:07:47.200 --> 01:07:50.160 and then myriad human life. 01:07:50.160 --> 01:07:55.120 It seemed like quite a few of those millions of human lives. 01:07:55.120 --> 01:07:58.040 And not only did I see them, but I experienced them. 01:07:58.040 --> 01:08:04.840 and in experiencing them, I experienced the great beauty of our human existence 01:08:04.840 --> 01:08:10.840 and also the great suffering, and particularly the suffering in each one of those souls. 01:08:10.840 --> 01:08:16.340 I feel that my gut awakened and I came back into the body. 01:08:16.340 --> 01:08:23.340 And so there was an embodiment and a realization that there's this Jivatma that has to experience this life. 01:08:23.340 --> 01:08:31.420 There is a personal life as such, however I try and just leave it to Baba to do, 01:08:31.420 --> 01:08:38.940 not claim that personal existence. But there is obviously Sanskrit to still play out in this 01:08:38.940 --> 01:08:46.620 destiny, in this life. That was lovely and it's really sort of nice being embodied on the planet, 01:08:46.620 --> 01:08:52.220 so I would say that is another awakening. And I feel a lot of teachers are stuck in that vast, 01:08:52.220 --> 01:08:59.660 dry, spacious, non-dual speak awareness. It's a stage and it's a beautiful stage. It's lovely, 01:08:59.660 --> 01:09:05.420 you know, nothing touches you there. Yeah, but it's not tremendously helpful to their students. 01:09:05.420 --> 01:09:12.380 You know, you hear examples of students listening to that stuff for hours on end and then losing all 01:09:12.380 --> 01:09:18.860 interest in their family or their job or even becoming nihilistic and suicidal even, you know, 01:09:18.860 --> 01:09:21.460 life loses its luster. 01:09:21.460 --> 01:09:26.580 And when you have that vast, spacious awakening and you are just pure awareness, it's wonderful 01:09:26.580 --> 01:09:29.500 and it is a stage, but it's not the end. 01:09:29.500 --> 01:09:33.860 And I feel like a lot of teachers get stuck there just doing a lot. 01:09:33.860 --> 01:09:38.100 And you can see it, you can see it in their body, you can see it in the energy field, 01:09:38.100 --> 01:09:40.140 it's very intellectual. 01:09:40.140 --> 01:09:46.060 So that return back to the body, the embodiment, and then it's like, well, for me, then there 01:09:46.060 --> 01:09:48.820 was an enormous Kundalini awakening. 01:09:48.820 --> 01:09:54.820 So that can be another awakening, which then clears out more and more of the system, lightens 01:09:54.820 --> 01:10:01.300 the load, and makes you to whatever extent, and again, there's seven planes of consciousness, 01:10:01.300 --> 01:10:07.860 so it's minuscule, but to whatever extent, more of the hollow bone to do the service 01:10:07.860 --> 01:10:10.660 when you're grounded and embodied. 01:10:10.660 --> 01:10:14.740 I think you said to me, I don't know if it was in an email recently, or I listened to 01:10:14.740 --> 01:10:19.180 all your talks that you have on your website this past week, so I'm not sure where you 01:10:19.180 --> 01:10:23.860 said this, but I think you said that according to Baba in this outline of states that you 01:10:23.860 --> 01:10:30.540 just read to us, one always has a sense of self or ego up until the seventh state. 01:10:30.540 --> 01:10:31.540 Is that correct? 01:10:31.540 --> 01:10:38.340 Yeah, he says that an extent of ego remains until the God realization on the seventh plane. 01:10:38.340 --> 01:10:42.780 So in light of that, what would you say of these teachers who emphasize, it seems to 01:10:42.780 --> 01:10:47.540 be their main teaching that you don't exist, you're not a person, stuff like that. 01:10:47.540 --> 01:10:49.640 Well, ultimately, no, we're not. 01:10:49.640 --> 01:10:55.340 We are God, but how much of that Godhood are we realizing? 01:10:55.340 --> 01:10:59.500 And if they're saying that to people who haven't even reached the first stage, and if people 01:10:59.500 --> 01:11:02.780 listen to that for hours on end, what effect does that have? 01:11:02.780 --> 01:11:08.140 For some people, perhaps they have the vast awakening and it could be helpful, but for 01:11:08.140 --> 01:11:14.780 others it could be detrimental to them living their life and working through their Sanskrit 01:11:14.780 --> 01:11:16.340 in this human life. 01:11:16.340 --> 01:11:22.600 We only have these awakenings on earth in a human body, so this human life is profoundly 01:11:22.600 --> 01:11:25.540 special as well. 01:11:25.540 --> 01:11:31.580 Then just a sense of grace, so a sense of grace into the system from outside, so Kundalini 01:11:31.580 --> 01:11:37.260 from, in my case, from the legs up through the body clearing out, and then this sense 01:11:37.260 --> 01:11:43.220 of grace coming into the body and informing and it feels like I've just 01:11:43.220 --> 01:11:50.380 spent 10 days up at Mayor Barber's place in Queensland, Australia, which is one of 01:11:50.380 --> 01:11:55.420 his three places of pilgrimage in the world. So for some reason we're lucky 01:11:55.420 --> 01:12:00.540 enough in Australia to have a place called Avatar's Abode. In America you're 01:12:00.540 --> 01:12:05.300 lucky enough to have a place of pilgrimage called Myrtle Beach Barber 01:12:05.300 --> 01:12:11.700 center. I interviewed Daniel Stone a while back who's there. I've never been to Myrtle Beach but 01:12:11.700 --> 01:12:17.860 of course I have been to Barber's in Queensland and his tomb shrine is in Avandhaga, India. So 01:12:17.860 --> 01:12:26.660 there's three places of pilgrimage and I feel like these influxes that you can get from sacred sites, 01:12:26.660 --> 01:12:32.820 you can feel the whole physical nervous system and the whole physical body as well as the 01:12:32.820 --> 01:12:39.060 energetic bodies all realigning and moving and shifting. You wanted me to show this picture. 01:12:39.060 --> 01:12:47.380 Yeah, this is Mayor Baba's bedroom at Avatar's Abode, which is in Queensland, Queensland, 01:12:47.380 --> 01:12:53.620 Australia, which is a place of pilgrimage. And Baba's room is open from six in the morning until 01:12:53.620 --> 01:13:00.340 nine at night. I recently took a group of people up there that wanted to know more about Mayor Baba, 01:13:00.340 --> 01:13:04.900 and the people that run the abode put on a really beautiful program for them. 01:13:04.900 --> 01:13:12.820 So there's community with Baba and there's also just Baba. My whole life I have just done Baba. 01:13:12.820 --> 01:13:20.580 My husband has done the Baba community and Baba. So depending on what you like to do, I now am 01:13:20.580 --> 01:13:26.260 open to the community because my nervous system is settled enough to sit with people and enjoy people. 01:13:26.900 --> 01:13:31.220 but I'm also glad that I just pursued Baba holos bolos. 01:13:31.220 --> 01:13:34.340 And so every morning while I was staying there, 01:13:34.340 --> 01:13:40.260 6am, I'd knock on the door and spend an hour just sitting in Baba's room. 01:13:40.260 --> 01:13:45.700 Probably the awakenings that I have experienced with the Kundalini, you know 01:13:45.700 --> 01:13:49.540 that amrita, that beautiful flow of 01:13:49.540 --> 01:13:56.020 sacred fluids. I experienced during the Kundalini process, 01:13:56.020 --> 01:13:58.620 which, you know, Kundalini is still active. 01:13:58.620 --> 01:14:00.940 I don't know if it ever stops, 01:14:00.940 --> 01:14:04.140 but it definitely settles from more vigorous 01:14:04.140 --> 01:14:08.020 and rigorous training for the body and nervous system. 01:14:08.020 --> 01:14:10.020 But during that process, 01:14:10.020 --> 01:14:13.900 and I think it was around the time of the descents of grace 01:14:13.900 --> 01:14:18.080 when God seems to enter the body from the outside 01:14:18.080 --> 01:14:20.460 and fills the body, 01:14:20.460 --> 01:14:23.460 yeah, I did experience this magnificent fluid 01:14:23.460 --> 01:14:25.940 coming down the back of my throat 01:14:25.940 --> 01:14:31.420 which was sort of like spicy, warm honey. And I don't really know what that does, but it 01:14:31.420 --> 01:14:35.460 obviously informs something of the restructuring of the system. 01:14:35.460 --> 01:14:38.340 Pete Yeah, I wonder if that's what is meant by 01:14:38.340 --> 01:14:43.300 Soma. That's often described in Indian tradition, using that word and their whole scripture is 01:14:43.300 --> 01:14:44.300 devoted to it. 01:14:44.300 --> 01:14:46.540 Dr. Anneke Okay, I don't know much about it, Rick. I've 01:14:46.540 --> 01:14:52.180 only, this system's experienced it. And I could have used the wrong word, perhaps Soma 01:14:52.180 --> 01:14:53.180 is the- 01:14:53.180 --> 01:14:55.980 I think is also a valid word in that context. 01:14:55.980 --> 01:15:01.660 Yeah, I feel like those are some of the awakenings and then there's probably how many more of 01:15:01.660 --> 01:15:04.660 those 8,400,000 lifetimes. 01:15:04.660 --> 01:15:08.620 For more to come. 01:15:08.620 --> 01:15:15.180 But the beautiful thing about the first awakenings is there's not really that psychological suffering 01:15:15.180 --> 01:15:17.500 that was in this person. 01:15:17.500 --> 01:15:19.620 So it is a beautiful shift. 01:15:19.620 --> 01:15:27.420 So we realize we're not the body, so that existential fear of death subsides, there's a relaxation 01:15:27.420 --> 01:15:33.300 in the system, and feel that we can just empty out, empty out and experience more of the 01:15:33.300 --> 01:15:37.360 fullness of the human existence at the same time. 01:15:37.360 --> 01:15:40.060 You might be on lifetime number 8,399,999. 01:15:40.060 --> 01:15:44.100 I don't think so. 01:15:44.100 --> 01:15:50.660 I think of people like Rudolf Steiner who was purported to be on the fifth plane, or where 01:15:50.660 --> 01:15:56.740 was Ramana Maharshi in armour, or you know, these different beings, you know, what levels 01:15:56.740 --> 01:15:58.500 of consciousness are they on? 01:15:58.500 --> 01:16:01.460 Yeah, it's entertainment in a way to talk about this. 01:16:01.460 --> 01:16:05.420 I went through a phase decades ago where I really wanted this to be my last life, you 01:16:05.420 --> 01:16:07.140 know, I was like, get me out of here. 01:16:07.140 --> 01:16:10.020 Now it's like, whatever, I'm having fun. 01:16:10.020 --> 01:16:14.060 - Relaxation, and non-dual speakers say, 01:16:14.060 --> 01:16:15.880 and I am into non-duality, 01:16:15.880 --> 01:16:18.280 but more an embodied non-duality. 01:16:18.280 --> 01:16:19.740 They say we're all God. 01:16:19.740 --> 01:16:21.940 Well, yes, that's true. 01:16:21.940 --> 01:16:24.960 And they say there's no hierarchy, we are all God. 01:16:24.960 --> 01:16:29.960 Well, the experiential reality of our experience of God, 01:16:29.960 --> 01:16:32.900 to me, I can see a hierarchy. 01:16:32.900 --> 01:16:36.080 I can feel the energy of the different beings, 01:16:36.080 --> 01:16:37.860 and there is a hierarchy. 01:16:37.860 --> 01:16:42.740 Of course. I interviewed a woman. We had a little disagreement. She was saying, you know, 01:16:42.740 --> 01:16:48.940 there's no hierarchy, all beings are God. And I said, okay, so let's say that in Africa 01:16:48.940 --> 01:16:53.980 kids are dying of malaria, and we want to do something to get rid of the mosquitoes 01:16:53.980 --> 01:17:00.820 so they don't give the kids malaria. Is the life of a mosquito equal in value to the life 01:17:00.820 --> 01:17:06.300 of a child? And she was saying yes, and I was saying no. I mean, there's definitely a hierarchy 01:17:06.300 --> 01:17:11.820 and any mother would swat the mosquito rather than have her child die. And there's nothing 01:17:11.820 --> 01:17:15.180 really unspiritual about looking at it that way. 01:17:15.180 --> 01:17:20.700 To me, it's just factual. It's an evolutionary, involutionary process, and we're all on the 01:17:20.700 --> 01:17:21.700 journey. 01:17:21.700 --> 01:17:27.420 Yeah, okay. You have one bit in your note here about meditation and disassociation. Are 01:17:27.420 --> 01:17:32.220 you suggesting that meditation causes disassociation? Why did you write that down? 01:17:32.220 --> 01:17:40.220 Yeah, I feel that a lot of people, and I feel like meditation can be great for some on their journey, 01:17:40.220 --> 01:17:47.100 like it really works for some, but I found it at retreats a lot of people, you know, seemingly 01:17:47.100 --> 01:17:54.780 peaceful on the mat and then they'll get up and even if we're at a silent retreat, the noise 01:17:54.780 --> 01:17:58.260 emanating off their person is big. 01:17:58.260 --> 01:18:02.380 For me, I can enjoy meditation because it's like just, 01:18:02.380 --> 01:18:05.540 you know, wallowing in the beauty of the depths of the self 01:18:05.540 --> 01:18:09.220 to whatever level it's discovered, and it's lovely, 01:18:09.220 --> 01:18:12.380 but it's sort of no different than walking around 01:18:12.380 --> 01:18:16.020 or working or working with clients or grandparenting. 01:18:16.020 --> 01:18:16.940 It's all the same. 01:18:16.940 --> 01:18:20.220 But what I did notice was there's a sense of peace 01:18:20.220 --> 01:18:24.020 on the mat, and yet people have described, 01:18:24.020 --> 01:18:31.940 maybe for 30 years I've been meditating and it hasn't really made any progress in the way I am 01:18:31.940 --> 01:18:38.260 in the world. So for some people I got the suspicion that perhaps they're just dissociating. 01:18:38.260 --> 01:18:42.180 Yeah, no you may be right. I mean if they haven't made any progress in 30 years there's something 01:18:42.180 --> 01:18:46.820 wrong either with their meditation or something else they're doing in life or not doing. 01:18:46.820 --> 01:18:53.540 Or their nervous system. I feel like sometimes too meditation isn't right for everyone first. 01:18:53.540 --> 01:18:59.860 Right, agreed. Yeah, they're often sitting and it's uncomfortable. There's too much trauma, there's 01:18:59.860 --> 01:19:05.700 too much sensation and they're sitting in the soup and it just doesn't work. So for me, 01:19:05.700 --> 01:19:12.420 working in TRE and releasing the system so that we can sit, it just seems a bit easier. 01:19:12.420 --> 01:19:17.540 It also depends on the proportions. You know, maybe you're doing too much of it. You know, 01:19:17.540 --> 01:19:22.660 you need water but drinking too much water can kill you. Yeah, so for some people I can see 01:19:22.660 --> 01:19:25.160 It's brilliant and it is their path. 01:19:25.160 --> 01:19:26.240 It is their path. 01:19:26.240 --> 01:19:30.160 But for some people I have noticed not a lot of shift. 01:19:30.160 --> 01:19:31.400 When they get off the mat, 01:19:31.400 --> 01:19:34.480 they're still really contracted in their ego identity 01:19:34.480 --> 01:19:37.660 and even at silent retreats, they can be quite noisy 01:19:37.660 --> 01:19:41.140 and I think, "Hmm, okay, let's look at that." 01:19:41.140 --> 01:19:45.420 The meditations we've been doing here on retreat 01:19:45.420 --> 01:19:47.540 and I bring into what I did, 01:19:47.540 --> 01:19:51.140 I was told by spirit guides, because I couldn't just sit, 01:19:51.140 --> 01:19:54.360 It was too dysregulated, unpleasant for me. 01:19:54.360 --> 01:19:58.380 So I was guided to tone and do vocal toning. 01:19:58.380 --> 01:20:01.540 So I had something to do while I was sitting. 01:20:01.540 --> 01:20:04.920 And of course we realize now, years later, 01:20:04.920 --> 01:20:06.320 with all the nervous system work, 01:20:06.320 --> 01:20:10.540 that vocal toning tones the vagus nerve, 01:20:10.540 --> 01:20:12.240 which settles the nervous system. 01:20:12.240 --> 01:20:14.660 So it was a double-edged thing. 01:20:14.660 --> 01:20:18.100 So an active meditation like that for some people 01:20:18.100 --> 01:20:22.740 is really, really helpful until they settle their nervous system. 01:20:22.740 --> 01:20:23.740 Yeah, that's good. 01:20:23.740 --> 01:20:28.780 There's friends of mine whom I've tried to get into doing the kind of meditation I do 01:20:28.780 --> 01:20:32.940 and they've said just what you were saying, which is that it's not for me just sitting 01:20:32.940 --> 01:20:33.940 silently like that. 01:20:33.940 --> 01:20:37.700 I need something more engaged and that's great. 01:20:37.700 --> 01:20:39.380 I mean, whatever floats your boat. 01:20:39.380 --> 01:20:44.300 It can be a beginning and it can help settle the system so you can just sit quietly as you 01:20:44.300 --> 01:20:45.300 Yeah. 01:20:45.300 --> 01:20:53.300 Another one that I encourage people to do is, it's probably more lovely out in nature, but 01:20:53.300 --> 01:21:00.020 we go on the property to the circle and it's open-eyed meditation because dissociators 01:21:00.020 --> 01:21:04.260 will often, the minute the eyes are closed, they're gone, they're out of the body. 01:21:04.260 --> 01:21:10.860 So we do an open-eyed and we just look around and we look and before the mind can name the 01:21:10.860 --> 01:21:17.100 object, we start looking at leaves on the floor and we come up to the tree trunk, up to the leaves, 01:21:17.100 --> 01:21:24.700 up to the sky and we just cycle our head around before brain will name, "Oh that's a black-spotted 01:21:24.700 --> 01:21:32.460 something or other," you know, as the mind does, to interrupt just a steady state. And then when 01:21:32.460 --> 01:21:38.940 you're quiet you can just stop the swiveling and just sit and the minute mind takes off again, 01:21:38.940 --> 01:21:41.820 don't worry, but just keep moving. 01:21:41.820 --> 01:21:46.020 So open-eyed, simple meditations can be a really good 01:21:46.020 --> 01:21:47.380 in as well. 01:21:47.380 --> 01:21:50.620 And from there, I do one called Body, Breath and God, 01:21:50.620 --> 01:21:53.380 where people from different traditions come here 01:21:53.380 --> 01:21:56.140 and they've all got different names of God. 01:21:56.140 --> 01:21:59.580 But on the in-breath, we say one syllable, sitting, 01:21:59.580 --> 01:22:02.900 and on the out-breath, we say the second syllable. 01:22:02.900 --> 01:22:06.260 So for me, it's, "Mea Bhava." 01:22:06.260 --> 01:22:10.740 We relax the body and it becomes a whole body thing. 01:22:10.740 --> 01:22:12.820 Other people say Jesus Christ, 01:22:12.820 --> 01:22:14.940 whatever your God name is. 01:22:14.940 --> 01:22:16.920 Some people it's pure consciousness. 01:22:16.920 --> 01:22:18.860 They don't have a person, 01:22:18.860 --> 01:22:22.620 they have the vast sky or whatever they have, 01:22:22.620 --> 01:22:24.260 they use that name. 01:22:24.260 --> 01:22:27.420 And we relax the body and the body becomes involved 01:22:27.420 --> 01:22:29.580 and it starts to unwind. 01:22:29.580 --> 01:22:32.220 So it's quite an active meditation, 01:22:32.220 --> 01:22:34.820 breath, name of God and body releasing. 01:22:34.820 --> 01:22:37.860 So, that's a win-win too. That's one of my favorites. 01:22:37.860 --> 01:22:44.260 >>Rick: A question came in from Ahmad Koyeb in South Africa. The question is, 01:22:44.260 --> 01:22:50.980 "I experience mental releases all day. I can be in the middle of a conversation with someone and 01:22:50.980 --> 01:22:57.700 experience neurological releases which look weird. Although there is much peace and silence, I see 01:22:57.700 --> 01:23:04.500 how futile my spiritual efforts are, since a wave of intense emotions can rise up and drag me right 01:23:04.500 --> 01:23:10.200 back into a contracted and noisy state. Is this normal at this stage? I feel I will never 01:23:10.200 --> 01:23:11.200 get through this." 01:23:11.200 --> 01:23:17.520 Yeah, I think it is normal. You know, those tastes of the wholeness, when we get a little 01:23:17.520 --> 01:23:22.840 taste of that wholeness, we can then start to tinker with the person and it's not so 01:23:22.840 --> 01:23:29.740 drastic. Don't lose hope. Often we're triggered back into person and our emotional states 01:23:29.740 --> 01:23:32.780 will arise when we haven't resolved something 01:23:32.780 --> 01:23:36.780 that's deeply set in our tissue and nervous system. 01:23:36.780 --> 01:23:39.860 So again, I come back to healing trauma 01:23:39.860 --> 01:23:42.860 so that the system clears and clears 01:23:42.860 --> 01:23:44.860 and you're not triggered. 01:23:44.860 --> 01:23:46.860 One day something will say something. 01:23:46.860 --> 01:23:48.860 I can think of triggers in my life 01:23:48.860 --> 01:23:52.860 and you know when you can speak about the situation 01:23:52.860 --> 01:23:55.860 and it's not stuck in your throat or your body contracts 01:23:55.860 --> 01:24:00.040 contracts that you've resolved it and you're over it. 01:24:00.040 --> 01:24:04.200 And I'm also too not one for bypassing the emotions. 01:24:04.200 --> 01:24:08.080 It's like the emotions have to be felt 01:24:08.080 --> 01:24:10.160 so that they can be released. 01:24:10.160 --> 01:24:13.860 So if we've got anger and sadness in our system 01:24:13.860 --> 01:24:16.640 amongst other emotions, we have to tend them. 01:24:16.640 --> 01:24:18.600 We have to tend ourselves. 01:24:18.600 --> 01:24:20.200 We have to feel the sadness. 01:24:20.200 --> 01:24:24.360 We have to feel and express the anger in an acceptable way. 01:24:24.360 --> 01:24:33.560 acceptable way. I've smashed quite a bit of cutlery. One of my best teapots went one day 01:24:33.560 --> 01:24:40.200 and I thought... Cutlery is knives, you don't want to throw those around. And again, like, 01:24:40.200 --> 01:24:45.240 you know, allow these things to release. And if little grandkids were here, I obviously 01:24:45.240 --> 01:24:50.440 wouldn't smash a teapot. But in the right time and the right place, and for me, teapot 01:24:50.440 --> 01:24:59.000 smashing. Fantastic. As long as someone's head is not involved as the target. Awareness to 01:24:59.000 --> 01:25:03.480 release in intelligent fashions, you know, for anger you can push on the wall, 01:25:03.480 --> 01:25:12.280 you know, to help release that. Interesting knowledge. Wow, I've got anger in my system. 01:25:12.280 --> 01:25:19.000 There's a verse in the Bhagavad Gita which goes, "No effort is lost and no obstacle exists." 01:25:19.000 --> 01:25:24.360 and then it goes on from there. But I would say to Ahmad, don't feel that you'll never get through 01:25:24.360 --> 01:25:32.760 anything. There's no obstacle, ultimately. And it might seem at times hopeless or that we're stuck 01:25:32.760 --> 01:25:38.760 or we'll never get, but if you have the sincere intention and desire to progress, and if you just 01:25:38.760 --> 01:25:43.480 take advantage of opportunities that present themselves as a result of your having that 01:25:43.480 --> 01:25:48.440 desire, and they will present themselves, then you'll find a way. You'll clear through this, 01:25:48.440 --> 01:25:53.240 that and the other thing and you'll look back at your life as having been very well spent, 01:25:53.240 --> 01:25:57.480 having cleared through tons of stuff. That's it, that's it, and it's a journey, you know, 01:25:57.480 --> 01:26:03.640 be patient, be patient with yourself, be patient with your person. You may be young and you know, 01:26:03.640 --> 01:26:10.280 young people can be very impetuous and impatient and so on, but if I look back at my life a decade 01:26:10.280 --> 01:26:17.080 at a time, there's huge shifts every decade if I'm going in that large increments, but they may not be 01:26:17.080 --> 01:26:22.460 be so noticeable from day to day, but if you just keep at it, your whole life will blossom. 01:26:22.460 --> 01:26:29.540 Nothing is really still. It's all in movement except the stillness itself. It will be shifts, 01:26:29.540 --> 01:26:36.300 and I also use the technique too. I was teaching my grandson the other day. If you're feeling 01:26:36.300 --> 01:26:41.780 stuck, I recite God's name, so whatever your name of God is, you know, you can use it like 01:26:41.780 --> 01:26:43.660 a blanket around you. 01:26:43.660 --> 01:26:45.380 They call that japa in India. 01:26:45.380 --> 01:26:49.420 You know, you can have a mantra or a name of God or something and just chant it as you 01:26:49.420 --> 01:26:50.700 wash the dishes or whatever. 01:26:50.700 --> 01:26:56.420 Absolutely, it can soothe you, you're calling God, perhaps you'll get some help. 01:26:56.420 --> 01:27:02.620 We were talking about in the very beginning in reference to Baba, the presence of benign 01:27:02.620 --> 01:27:06.300 and caring intelligences, we could say. 01:27:06.300 --> 01:27:10.500 And for some people it's Jesus, for some people it's Baba, for some people it might be Ramana 01:27:10.500 --> 01:27:18.020 Maharshi or whatever, but there's just so many examples of people receiving blessings from 01:27:18.020 --> 01:27:23.220 some dimension that is not obvious to the naked eye, and it's very palpable, sometimes 01:27:23.220 --> 01:27:24.220 life-saving. 01:27:24.220 --> 01:27:28.620 And it could sound like a matter of belief, and you don't have to believe it, but you 01:27:28.620 --> 01:27:31.300 may end up believing it if you experience enough of it. 01:27:31.300 --> 01:27:36.780 But I suppose the way to do that is just to have this sincere desire to continue progressing 01:27:36.780 --> 01:27:42.820 and have an attitude of innocence and maybe surrender to some extent. 01:27:42.820 --> 01:27:47.340 Yeah, ultimately it is surrender as well. 01:27:47.340 --> 01:27:50.460 It's God's grace at the right time. 01:27:50.460 --> 01:27:51.460 We're not alone. 01:27:51.460 --> 01:27:52.460 No, we're not alone. 01:27:52.460 --> 01:27:55.340 And I'm not just talking about space aliens. 01:27:55.340 --> 01:27:57.340 Me too. 01:27:57.340 --> 01:28:03.820 That's another figure I wrote down which I sort of got excited about. 01:28:03.820 --> 01:28:07.740 >> Barbara says 18,000 worlds of human life. 01:28:07.740 --> 01:28:09.540 >> Throughout the universe or something? 01:28:09.540 --> 01:28:10.820 >> Universe, yeah. 01:28:10.820 --> 01:28:14.420 >> I wouldn't be surprised if there are even more than that, trillions. 01:28:14.420 --> 01:28:15.700 He was amazing. 01:28:15.700 --> 01:28:19.060 People might not remember this about him, but he didn't speak for 01:28:19.060 --> 01:28:20.300 most of his life. 01:28:20.300 --> 01:28:24.580 And all these voluminous writings were just done by a little sign board where 01:28:24.580 --> 01:28:27.940 he'd point to different letters, right, and someone would write it down. 01:28:27.940 --> 01:28:29.300 That alone is amazing. 01:28:29.300 --> 01:28:32.060 I mean, imagine writing even a sentence and 01:28:32.060 --> 01:28:37.100 keeping the whole structure of the sentence in mind as you point the letters on a signboard, 01:28:37.100 --> 01:28:43.180 what to say of an entire large book and having it be a coherent unfolding of thought, that 01:28:43.180 --> 01:28:44.580 is kind of remarkable. 01:28:44.580 --> 01:28:46.140 Yeah, it was remarkable. 01:28:46.140 --> 01:28:52.460 Baba kept 44 years of silence and he said, and it's not a direct quote, but I'll sort 01:28:52.460 --> 01:28:56.020 of say what I can about what I remember. 01:28:56.020 --> 01:29:03.100 He said, "I've had enough of words, you know, like I've given words in every avataric advent. 01:29:03.100 --> 01:29:05.260 It's now time to live them." 01:29:05.260 --> 01:29:11.300 And so he kept his silence and that was part of his universal work for humanity. 01:29:11.300 --> 01:29:14.420 How developed is this Mayor Farm Healing and Awakening Center? 01:29:14.420 --> 01:29:17.020 I mean, are you up and running? 01:29:17.020 --> 01:29:20.860 People can come there and, or is it still a work in progress? 01:29:20.860 --> 01:29:22.560 It's always a work in progress, 01:29:22.560 --> 01:29:26.480 but we have a main room where we have retreats. 01:29:26.480 --> 01:29:32.040 We're on 17 acres and it's magnificently 01:29:32.040 --> 01:29:34.140 surrounded by mountains. 01:29:34.140 --> 01:29:37.960 I have a healing room here where I do the body work. 01:29:37.960 --> 01:29:40.260 We have dining over here. 01:29:40.260 --> 01:29:43.580 We all work in here and I set up two big bell tents 01:29:43.580 --> 01:29:45.320 to do extra work in. 01:29:45.320 --> 01:29:49.100 We have retreats, Rick, which is fantastic. 01:29:49.100 --> 01:29:50.980 You know, at five o'clock in the morning, 01:29:50.980 --> 01:29:54.420 we start with the universal prayer 01:29:54.420 --> 01:29:58.180 and we meditate for an hour till six, 01:29:58.180 --> 01:30:00.860 and then at six, we're down at the river, 01:30:00.860 --> 01:30:02.860 getting into the river in the dark 01:30:02.860 --> 01:30:05.700 and the sun comes up while we're in the river. 01:30:05.700 --> 01:30:07.780 So we do a lot of work in nature, 01:30:07.780 --> 01:30:10.420 out of our comfort zone a little bit. 01:30:10.420 --> 01:30:15.420 We do TRE, we do community shamanic healing ceremonies, 01:30:16.340 --> 01:30:19.300 We do readings from the masters. 01:30:19.300 --> 01:30:28.120 So obviously I'm Meher Baba-centric, but we include other masters as well in their readings. 01:30:28.120 --> 01:30:29.960 We have great retreats here. 01:30:29.960 --> 01:30:31.560 We have really wonderful retreats. 01:30:31.560 --> 01:30:33.880 Mostly people come from nearby in Australia? 01:30:33.880 --> 01:30:36.280 Have you had people come from overseas yet? 01:30:36.280 --> 01:30:39.000 No, I've only had Australians so far. 01:30:39.000 --> 01:30:40.000 Okay. 01:30:40.000 --> 01:30:45.040 Maybe after this interview you'll have some Yankees and Brits and whatnot. 01:30:45.040 --> 01:30:50.320 They could combine it with a little tour of Australia or something if they want to do 01:30:50.320 --> 01:30:51.320 that. 01:30:51.320 --> 01:30:53.120 We're looking to develop accommodation. 01:30:53.120 --> 01:30:55.440 There's only two bedrooms here. 01:30:55.440 --> 01:31:02.200 John and I move into a tent when people come and the rest of the people camp at the moment. 01:31:02.200 --> 01:31:04.280 And we would love to build accommodation. 01:31:04.280 --> 01:31:08.640 It's a little bit rustic, but it sounds like a beautiful experience. 01:31:08.640 --> 01:31:12.800 Yeah, something about the immensity of the night sky. 01:31:12.800 --> 01:31:17.000 So even if you're camping, you're nicking out for a wee, and you're seeing the stars, and 01:31:17.000 --> 01:31:21.160 you're being part of nature, and it's very opening. 01:31:21.160 --> 01:31:24.780 Nature is another magnificent teacher. 01:31:24.780 --> 01:31:30.240 We do partake of a lot of the natural world here to sort of help surface that natural 01:31:30.240 --> 01:31:31.240 part of ourselves. 01:31:31.240 --> 01:31:32.240 That's nice, yeah. 01:31:32.240 --> 01:31:33.240 I love camping. 01:31:33.240 --> 01:31:36.760 I've done many months of it, if you add it all up. 01:31:36.760 --> 01:31:42.000 Irene and I used to go out west every summer for a month and just go to Colorado or Wyoming 01:31:42.000 --> 01:31:47.040 or Utah or one of these places and just camp and day hike every day for a month. 01:31:47.040 --> 01:31:50.960 It really resets the nervous system being out in nature like that. 01:31:50.960 --> 01:31:51.960 Absolutely, Rick. 01:31:51.960 --> 01:31:58.960 It can take a bit of time for people to settle, you know, from their busy lives, but yeah, 01:31:58.960 --> 01:31:59.960 everything slows down. 01:31:59.960 --> 01:32:00.960 It does. 01:32:00.960 --> 01:32:04.960 I remember coming back from one of those one-month camping trips and I was in line at a local 01:32:04.960 --> 01:32:09.000 restaurant and someone standing next to me that I don't think I really even knew said, 01:32:09.000 --> 01:32:12.200 said, "Wow, you look like you've been doing something beautiful." 01:32:12.200 --> 01:32:13.200 You know? 01:32:13.200 --> 01:32:14.200 Ha ha ha. 01:32:14.200 --> 01:32:15.200 Karen: Yeah. 01:32:15.200 --> 01:32:16.200 Oh, great. 01:32:16.200 --> 01:32:17.200 It does. 01:32:17.200 --> 01:32:21.320 Like, we reflect ourselves in nature, the beauty of nature, the beauty of ourself, and 01:32:21.320 --> 01:32:22.560 there's no distance. 01:32:22.560 --> 01:32:24.600 We submerge into it. 01:32:24.600 --> 01:32:27.800 We become one with it, and how incredible is that? 01:32:27.800 --> 01:32:32.320 What an incredible supportive thing nature is for our systems. 01:32:32.320 --> 01:32:33.760 Jay: It really is. 01:32:33.760 --> 01:32:37.680 Well, is there anything that you'd like to cover that we haven't thought about or talked 01:32:37.680 --> 01:32:38.680 about? 01:32:38.680 --> 01:32:43.680 I do just want to share one thing about my healing work 01:32:43.680 --> 01:32:47.720 and working on Mayor Farm. 01:32:47.720 --> 01:32:50.080 Out of the training, Rick, that I did, 01:32:50.080 --> 01:32:51.920 we had to do a breathwork journey. 01:32:51.920 --> 01:32:53.360 I've never done one before, 01:32:53.360 --> 01:32:55.420 and I did do a breathwork journey. 01:32:55.420 --> 01:33:00.320 In the journey, I journeyed up through the galaxies 01:33:00.320 --> 01:33:02.560 and found myself in the void. 01:33:02.560 --> 01:33:04.160 So I was in the black void. 01:33:04.160 --> 01:33:05.240 It was very comfortable. 01:33:05.240 --> 01:33:06.080 It was beautiful. 01:33:06.080 --> 01:33:09.520 It was sort of like vacuum sealed and quiet. 01:33:09.520 --> 01:33:12.280 And I was in there and in this vision, 01:33:12.280 --> 01:33:16.120 in came two of Meher Baba's perfect masters, 01:33:16.120 --> 01:33:20.360 Babaja, Hazarat Babaja, a female perfect master, 01:33:20.360 --> 01:33:23.120 and Upasini Maharaj. 01:33:23.120 --> 01:33:26.800 They were carrying a lit diamond between them 01:33:26.800 --> 01:33:29.280 and they handed the diamond to me. 01:33:29.280 --> 01:33:31.540 I don't know what it signifies really, 01:33:31.540 --> 01:33:33.240 but it was very beautiful. 01:33:33.240 --> 01:33:36.000 And they said to me, they were quite curt, 01:33:36.000 --> 01:33:39.280 enough of this traveling to the galaxies. 01:33:39.280 --> 01:33:42.320 (laughing) 01:33:42.320 --> 01:33:43.920 I didn't choose to do the breath work, 01:33:43.920 --> 01:33:45.760 it was very enjoyable, 01:33:45.760 --> 01:33:47.400 but they were like, enough of this, 01:33:47.400 --> 01:33:48.840 you've done enough of this, 01:33:48.840 --> 01:33:51.360 other sphere stuff, get down there 01:33:51.360 --> 01:33:53.800 and get on with the work with the humans, 01:33:53.800 --> 01:33:55.160 with the people. 01:33:55.160 --> 01:33:57.480 And I thought, okay. 01:33:57.480 --> 01:34:01.320 I'm really quite obedient to intuition, 01:34:01.320 --> 01:34:02.960 so I am getting on with it. 01:34:02.960 --> 01:34:05.280 And in Barbara's bedroom, 01:34:05.280 --> 01:34:07.360 where I spent quite a bit of my time 01:34:07.360 --> 01:34:09.440 at his abode in Queensland, 01:34:09.440 --> 01:34:14.440 I got ring Irene and Rick and speak to Rick. 01:34:14.440 --> 01:34:15.440 - Oh, okay. 01:34:15.440 --> 01:34:19.400 - So I got onto you and that was so funny 01:34:19.400 --> 01:34:22.680 because you scheduled me for the 11th of the 11th. 01:34:22.680 --> 01:34:25.560 So I thought, oh, how lovely, that's the awakening number. 01:34:25.560 --> 01:34:28.840 And again, it was sort of like this speeding up in my life. 01:34:28.840 --> 01:34:31.380 Like I'm 61, I think. 01:34:31.380 --> 01:34:33.420 you know, there's only this much left, 01:34:33.420 --> 01:34:35.700 so I can work on the bodies. 01:34:35.700 --> 01:34:38.700 So come on, people, come on, come down. 01:34:38.700 --> 01:34:40.460 It's like I've got a bit of time 01:34:40.460 --> 01:34:42.700 to help people work through their trauma. 01:34:42.700 --> 01:34:44.740 So that's sort of exciting. 01:34:44.740 --> 01:34:47.620 And I also got told in Barbara's bedroom 01:34:47.620 --> 01:34:51.220 to buy these magnificent drawings behind me. 01:34:51.220 --> 01:34:55.420 I've got six and I'm going to buy more 01:34:55.420 --> 01:34:56.740 for the retreat center. 01:34:56.740 --> 01:35:00.940 And they're by an artist called Diana LaPage. 01:35:00.940 --> 01:35:03.880 And she actually lives on Avatar's Abode, 01:35:03.880 --> 01:35:06.220 and she was married to Bill LePage, 01:35:06.220 --> 01:35:09.300 who was one of the Australian close disciples 01:35:09.300 --> 01:35:11.820 who helped set up that place. 01:35:11.820 --> 01:35:15.540 And she's painted and drawn Baba for most of her life. 01:35:15.540 --> 01:35:17.820 And I didn't have the money, of course, 01:35:17.820 --> 01:35:21.500 but Baba said, "Get those drawings. 01:35:21.500 --> 01:35:22.860 Get them sent." 01:35:22.860 --> 01:35:26.660 And I'm obedient, yes, okay. (laughs) 01:35:26.660 --> 01:35:30.340 So it seems like there's a hastening here. 01:35:30.340 --> 01:35:33.000 Well, 61 isn't that old. 01:35:33.000 --> 01:35:35.140 That's about how old I was when I started Batgap. 01:35:35.140 --> 01:35:39.100 I think I had just turned 60 or something. 01:35:39.100 --> 01:35:41.500 And that was 15 years ago. 01:35:41.500 --> 01:35:43.940 So you've got some life left in you. 01:35:43.940 --> 01:35:46.740 Got some work in me yet. 01:35:46.740 --> 01:35:49.220 So it's sort of exciting. 01:35:49.220 --> 01:35:55.860 We've had it on a level, but Diana's drawing's coming and it was like, get on to Irene and 01:35:55.860 --> 01:35:56.860 Rick. 01:35:56.860 --> 01:36:01.500 had a cancellation too and so it's hard to get people at the last minute but then we thought, 01:36:01.500 --> 01:36:04.380 "Oh, Tri, great. She'll be flexible so we can put her in." 01:36:04.380 --> 01:36:08.540 - That was the rest of the story. I forgot that bit, Rick. Thank you. It's like Bob, 01:36:08.540 --> 01:36:12.380 "No, forget the 11th. It's too far away. Now, next week." 01:36:12.380 --> 01:36:14.940 - Maybe he made this other person cancel. 01:36:14.940 --> 01:36:21.260 - Probably. It's like, "No, too long. Next week. Okay, let's go." So that was good. 01:36:21.260 --> 01:36:25.260 - That's a teaching in itself. I mean, I don't read too much into it, 01:36:25.260 --> 01:36:29.260 but I strongly have the feeling that everything is divinely orchestrated, and so I'm a little 01:36:29.260 --> 01:36:35.740 bit observant as to how things unfold, and if things happen a certain way, then I read some 01:36:35.740 --> 01:36:42.140 significance into it. Like, "Okay, this is the way it's unfolding, and so I should go with this." 01:36:42.140 --> 01:36:47.660 It's kind of like life is this divine play in which there's a divine script, and yet I also 01:36:47.660 --> 01:36:53.580 have a little bit of improvisational latitude within the script to play my role as best I see 01:36:53.580 --> 01:36:59.540 fit as the things unfold. Yeah, it does become an unfolding like I feel like you 01:36:59.540 --> 01:37:03.920 just follow the synchronicities. A bit like going back to the athletes in flow. 01:37:03.920 --> 01:37:10.220 Life is in flow and so you think on the 11th, how lovely that's nice and 01:37:10.220 --> 01:37:14.700 it's like no it's next week. It's cool I mean you meet some person and it turns 01:37:14.700 --> 01:37:18.420 out that that person just just who you needed to meet in order to learn 01:37:18.420 --> 01:37:21.700 something or do something or whatever I mean this kind of stuff happens all the 01:37:21.700 --> 01:37:22.700 time. 01:37:22.700 --> 01:37:28.020 Absolutely, absolutely, and it's having that, if you can relax yourself down enough to read 01:37:28.020 --> 01:37:34.380 it to come, the person that made the question, you know, I hope some, a little bit of flow 01:37:34.380 --> 01:37:38.900 and ease comes their way too, the person that asked the question before. 01:37:38.900 --> 01:37:41.780 The guy from South Africa, Ahmad. 01:37:41.780 --> 01:37:45.220 Getting to a bit of the synchronicity, if you just relax a little. 01:37:45.220 --> 01:37:49.220 Yeah, I remember what Jesus said there, he said, "Seek and ye shall find, knock and the 01:37:49.220 --> 01:37:50.220 door shall be opened." 01:37:50.220 --> 01:37:55.820 Yeah, and so it's that fine line between putting in and relaxing. 01:37:55.820 --> 01:38:00.980 Yeah, for the guy in South Africa, there's a teacher named Brad Loughlin that I interviewed 01:38:00.980 --> 01:38:06.780 maybe a year ago, and he has a kind of a retreat center out in the bush with wild zebras walking 01:38:06.780 --> 01:38:08.180 around and stuff like that. 01:38:08.180 --> 01:38:10.820 So you might want to get in touch with him. 01:38:10.820 --> 01:38:11.980 You'll find him on Bat Cap. 01:38:11.980 --> 01:38:14.580 All right, G, well, thanks so much. 01:38:14.580 --> 01:38:16.860 I've really enjoyed connecting with you again. 01:38:16.860 --> 01:38:21.620 I feel like we've somehow been in touch frequently all these years, even though I don't know 01:38:21.620 --> 01:38:24.700 if we have been, but it kind of seems like we have been, doesn't it? 01:38:24.700 --> 01:38:26.580 >> We've penned a few notes, yeah. 01:38:26.580 --> 01:38:30.940 >> It's like you're one of these soul sisters that I've gotten to know through Batgap and 01:38:30.940 --> 01:38:32.300 it's a joy to know. 01:38:32.300 --> 01:38:36.060 >> Yeah, you too, Rick, and Irene too, yeah. 01:38:36.060 --> 01:38:37.740 Lots of love to you both. 01:38:37.740 --> 01:38:42.060 >> Alrighty, well, thank you for doing this, and thanks to those who've been listening or 01:38:42.060 --> 01:38:43.060 watching. 01:38:43.060 --> 01:38:46.140 My next guest is a young fellow. 01:38:46.140 --> 01:38:49.260 We've got a couple of really young guys lined up. 01:38:49.260 --> 01:38:53.460 Usually I'm interviewing older people and my audience is largely older. 01:38:53.460 --> 01:38:58.780 If I look at the YouTube analytics, it's like most people are in their 50s or 60s or something 01:38:58.780 --> 01:39:02.260 like that, but it would be good to relate to a younger crowd too. 01:39:02.260 --> 01:39:06.980 A couple of people were brought to our attention who just seem like really gifted young people 01:39:06.980 --> 01:39:11.660 with a great deal of spiritual maturity already, and they're probably going to have quite an 01:39:11.660 --> 01:39:12.700 impact in life. 01:39:12.700 --> 01:39:17.820 So there's an upcoming interviews page on batgap.com where you can check out what's been 01:39:17.820 --> 01:39:20.440 scheduled and you'll see who I'm referring to. 01:39:20.440 --> 01:39:24.980 And also on BatGap if you go there you can sign up to be notified by email every time 01:39:24.980 --> 01:39:29.400 there's a new interview and I hope that if you haven't already done so you'll subscribe 01:39:29.400 --> 01:39:30.400 on YouTube. 01:39:30.400 --> 01:39:37.040 It helps the more people subscribe the more YouTube's algorithm works to make the interviews 01:39:37.040 --> 01:39:38.580 visible to other people. 01:39:38.580 --> 01:39:40.420 All right, Sri, thank you very much. 01:39:40.420 --> 01:39:42.820 Great work, Rick and Irene, thank you. 01:39:42.820 --> 01:39:46.420 We'll be in touch for the next 15 years, or more. 01:39:46.420 --> 01:39:49.420 [Laughter] 01:39:49.420 --> 01:40:14.420 [Music]