Chris Williams: A few years ago, I decided with the help of some of the
people on this call, as a matter of fact, to take what was a podcast of
original ideas and turn it into a course, a systematic way for people to learn
what we were talking about in the show.
And what you're about to see today are a bunch of people who have been through the
forge over the past four or five years.
So starting with Lawrence, Lawrence, you were one of the first people
to reach out from the Netherlands and say, this should be a thing.
At very least it should be a community.
Lawrence is from the Netherlands and he was in cohort one.
Welcome, Lawrence.
And then I'll move to, uh, Ken, you were part of cohort, I want to say three.
Ken Goodman: Yeah.
Chris Williams: You're part of cohort three.
And, uh, you're joining us from Buffalo, New York.
And then finally, Andrus, you're joining us from Germany and
you were part of cohort five.
So I welcome you.
We're expecting one other person.
I'm not sure whether or not she'll be able to join, but here's the idea.
I want to find out from you, what has the forge done or
changed for you over the years?
And is there anything that we could do that would make it more modern,
more current, or somehow better, but I want the world to meet you guys.
And I want you to meet the rest of the audience because you've
all been formative in building the forge into what it is today.
So first of all, welcome everybody.
And then I'm going to go around the room and let you introduce yourself.
Let us know what you do.
And, uh, then we'll start, I'll start, I have some directed questions to
ask you about your Forge experience.
So Lawrence, please, let's begin with you.
Laurens Bonnema: Yeah.
My name is Lawrence.
I live in the Netherlands.
Uh, I'm an Agile Management Consultant and Trainer, um, certified in like
everything you can be certified in.
Um, and, um, um, yeah.
By now author of a couple of books.
Um, and, uh, I joined the forge mostly because I was just a
huge fan of, in my opinion, the best sounding podcasts on earth.
Uh, and it just happens to be about agile.
So I could not not to listen to it.
Um, and, uh, a coworker of mine and actually a good friend also, she.
Ask me, I want to do more with like that, that essential podcast that you pointed
me towards because I really, really think this dude is on to something.
Um, and so she sent an email and that got the ball rolling.
Chris Williams: Absolutely.
I'm glad you did.
Cause I had, I had thought to myself, I should do something.
But I had no idea what something was.
And it took your insight and your recommendation to firm it up and form
it into something that became an actual thing that you can now, you know,
touch and join and, and spend time with and hopefully get some benefit from.
So welcome Lawrence.
Thank you so much for being here and thank you for being part of the inspiration for
starting the forge in the first place.
Let's go then sequentially up to Ken from cohort three.
Tell us about yourself, Ken.
Ken Goodman: Well, you know, I started off my career as a software engineer
before moving into quality engineering and then pursuing a management track,
uh, something that was always pretty passionate about, uh, leading people.
And then along came, uh, an agile coach, uh, working with the
company I was with at the time.
And I knew right then and there, that's what I wanted to do.
And so I have pursued that and I've been agile coaching, uh,
for about the past 10 years.
And I choose to do it because It's a, it's a medium for me to help improve
the lives of people that love the work that they do so that they never
have to, you know, feel stressed or pressured and carry that burden home.
Like, you know, I used to back in the old waterfall days
and I, I love it quite a bit.
And I apply my, you know, agile, you know, Mindset and approach to
experimentation to tournament fishing.
Uh, something that I do, uh, personally.
Chris Williams: And I see we've got Tracy, Tracy, you're from cohort two, I believe.
And I know you just joined due to some technical difficulties.
So welcome.
We're just kind of underway.
Tell us a bit about yourself.
Don't you don't have to name where you work, but, um, tell us what
you do and how you found the forge.
Tracy Baer: My name is Tracy, and I work for a national
insurance company in Canada.
So I currently reside in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada, which is a mouthful.
And when I joined the forge, I was, yes, I joined into cohort two.
And the reason why I joined was my manager at the time, um, uh, Was a fan of Chris's,
uh, Badass Agile podcast that he had and had been listening to those podcasts and
pointed me in the direction of The Forge.
So that's how I came to learn about it and the reason why I ended up joining
was on his, uh, prompting to do so.
And I'm super glad that I did.
Chris Williams: I'm glad that you did too.
And thank you so much for coming today.
Glad you could make it.
And then last but not least, Andras from Cohort 5.
Tell us about yourself.
Andras Ivanyi: Yeah.
Hi, everyone.
It's great to be here.
Um, so my name is Andras and right now I'm Uh, self employed, uh, specializing in
trainings and coachings, as well as I also build a small tool around core setting.
Um, I think I came across the Forge, uh, or the concept of
Forge probably 3 years ago.
Um, about half a year earlier, I started listening to the BetterCentrify podcast.
It was, uh, Being mentioned in a training that I was attending
at the time that, hey, by the way, does anyone listen to that?
I said, China.
I didn't like the name.
So I checked it out.
And.
I fell in love with the content immediately.
And then, um, at 1 point, you started advertising or mentioning it.
By the way, there is this 1 year long immersive leadership
development experience.
And at that time, I felt it is really something that I would love to do.
Like to do, um, went for it.
I was a line manager of, uh, HI coaches back then.
And, uh, I started, um, utilizing it basically right from the beginning.
Chris Williams: Excellent.
Thank you for joining as well, Andres.
So let's dig into some of the things that I'm hoping will be useful for each other.
One of the things I love about what we built here is that we remain a community
over time, not only when the program is over, and it's a year long immersion,
by the way, so there's a lot of time spent getting to know one another.
So not only do we maintain our.
Partner relationships with, you know, our swim buddy relationships, the team
relationships, but also intra teams.
So some of you have met each other before and continue to
help and support each other.
When we started it, the idea was to create something so good
that no one could catch us.
And I didn't know what that meant, except for the fact that as a
learning experience I wanted it to be something that would stick.
A lot of learning experiences, you go, you take the course, you read the
book, maybe, you do the exercises, maybe, But within six months, you'll
probably have retained about 10 percent by statistics of what you learned.
So we wanted to fix that.
We wanted to make it more immediately applicable.
Hence the year.
Hence the homework was meant to be situational.
Like the homework is not, go think about this.
It's about, It's about going back to the workplace and bringing the
new skills to the job and seeing what happens and reporting back.
But of course, we also noticed about the forge is that the most important things,
the things that we're sticking with people again, going by the analytics,
the stuff that people were really digging into commenting on listening to.
tended to be the stuff that was counter, uh, counterculture, if you will.
So it's not the stuff that they're saying in the Agile books, in the Agile
memes, in the Agile certified courseware.
It's in fact the opposite sometimes.
So I wanted to take all of my personal learning experiences and
gel them together into one cohesive bunch and then make it simple.
Simple to learn, simple to use, simple to remember.
So the reason why we come back together for this podcast episode
is to ask the question, did it work?
So then my, my first question for you really is what's happened to you
since you went through the forge?
So if you can think about something that you got out of the forge that you
remember and attribute to your forge experience, I'd love to hear about that.
I'd love to hear about things that broke open for you because you went
through the forge, like a skill.
That you didn't have before and you thought maybe you'd never get
or you didn't know you needed.
And most importantly, can you say definitively, who or
what will I never go back to?
So maybe before the forge, you felt uninspired, unenlightened, unmotivated.
Uh, you felt like you had a lack of discipline or a lack of accountability
or you had a hard time asking for help.
I'd love to know what things you'll never go back to.
So you can answer any or all of those three questions.
What did it give you that you couldn't get anywhere else?
What, what's cracked open for you and so what doors open for you and
then what doors closed for you?
What things will you never go back to?
So I'll start again with Lawrence.
Well, the, the force gave
Laurens Bonnema: me that I couldn't get anywhere else was,
um, really tight connection to people with a similar mindset.
Um, and like, weekly conversations, real conversations, not just getting
together and sharing a bit of knowledge.
Um, and also like long term friendship, Tracy and I stay in touch, um,
still every week at least once.
Um, and we, we hound each other to get shit done essentially.
And that's the belief or ability that was cracked open for me.
Um, I was always, and still am, um, like a walking bookcase, right?
People actually, actually call me an encyclopedia.
Um, and I was proud of that.
I know, I know a lot and that, that's my job.
That's it's like a Tyrion Lannister of Agile.
I, I drink and I know things.
Uh, but the, the, the weird thing was.
Having the knowledge.
Knowledge isn't actually power.
Um, and that's a thing that, like, weirdly was highlighted for me in The Forge.
So all these embers of knowledge got, like, um, whipped together.
Almost literally whipped, by the way, because Chris wasn't
having any of my bullshit.
And the fun thing there was that, like, I already knew all these
things, but I wasn't taking action on even a single one of them.
Um, and what it brought me was the notion you can know all you want,
but if you don't start actually doing something, it's actually useless.
Literally useless.
And I was helping others with stuff, but not me.
I was always only helping other people.
And that's the thing that was cracked open is Why am I not taking my own advice?
This, this is just weird.
So I started doing that just a little bit.
I mean, I haven't morphed into this weirdly different person all of a sudden,
but it got started that got the ball rolling every day, just a little bit
and stop listening to my own bullshit.
Right?
And recognizing it for what it is, usually an excuse, because
I'm afraid to get started.
And now I'm not afraid to talk about that.
And that's the key thing.
Um, actually the key thing is I now ask for help, um, getting over that hump.
And, uh, my help is called Tracy.
It's really, it's an extremely simple concept, but it works.
She just, every time, every week I tell her, I haven't done the thing.
And she just,
Chris Williams: Also not, also not putting up with any of your shit.
So what I will
Laurens Bonnema: never go, exactly.
Um, and what I will never go back to is, um, not asking for help.
I actually now actively teach other people the key skill that you need
to learn is ask for help before you even know that you need it.
Because if you know that you need it, you're probably too late.
So you should make it a habit.
Ask for help all the time.
Because people like to help.
I like to help other people.
So if you, it's not a shameful thing.
It's an, it's a power move.
Um, and that, that's what, that's really what the forge gave me.
Chris Williams: My big learning through meeting all of you and working with
different kinds of people is that it's the, the doing is the hardest part.
So promising and talking about what you know is the easy bit.
But actually committing to let's say a deadline or a, uh, a contribution
is the hardest part and the best way to motivate you to do the
hard thing is to put yourself accountable in front of somebody else.
And so that's where the concept of SWINBUDDY came from.
And I think, you know, your testament or testimony is proof
that it helps or that it works.
Just to put just a few
Laurens Bonnema: numbers on it, just for the audience, if you're
listening before the forge, I was forever wanting to write books.
And after the forge, I wrote two real books to FAQ books,
not really books, but bookish.
Um, so four books.
As opposed to zero, which is incredible.
That's the forge for you.
Chris Williams: Yeah.
Good job.
My friend.
I like, um, I like what you did with it.
Tracy, if you're still there, can you come on camera and you're from cohort two?
So I'll make you go next.
Tracy Baer: Yeah.
Uh, I liked everything that Lauren had to say there.
And Lauren, have you finished reading that book?
I'll give
Laurens Bonnema: you an update tomorrow, Tracy.
Tracy Baer: Yeah.
One of the biggest takeaways out of the forge, of course, was, you know, the
relationship that I have forged literally with Lauren and I was within the forge,
but then also outside of the forge.
Um, as my friend, buddy, my accountability partner, like
he already said, we touch base.
Pretty much on a weekly basis to make sure that we are progressing with whatever goal
that we said that we needed to progress on for that particular week or that month.
And it, and it flexes and it changes, right?
Over time, but having somebody to literally, um, keep you accountable
has been amazing, I feel.
And.
One of the other things that I took away from the forge was the whole concept
of having a personal vision statement.
I work in a corporate organization, so I'm not unfamiliar with what a vision
statement is, but I've only ever thought in terms of a corporation before.
It never became, was never a thought that you could apply that to, you
know, Somebody's personal life.
And so for myself, since the forge, I constantly, when I'm trying to make some
life decisions, bigger life decisions, I keep going back to, okay, what is
that vision statement for myself?
And, and having that help to anchor me in some of the, Personal decisions
that I am faced with making in my life, so that's been tremendous for myself.
The other thing that changed for me, I think, before the forge, like, like
Lauren said, I have a lot of knowledge.
Already that I brought to the table a lot of practice in my field.
I was, I guess what some people would refer to as an agile scrum master,
uh, in my world in my corporation, we call them agile team leads.
And I felt like I was bringing a lot to the table, although in the forge,
there was so much more to learn.
And I think I gained a whole lot more confidence in myself and my ability.
And when.
You know, even near the end of my time in the forge, my manager came to me,
you'd have to know the person, but he can be a little bit blunt sometimes.
And he basically said to me, so do you want to be a manager or what?
And, you know, I think he really saw growth within myself since I had,
Participated in the forge and been a member of the, uh, cohort too.
And I am now managing a team where I work.
Chris Williams: Great job, Tracy.
Thanks for the, thanks for the testimony.
Let's go over to Ken.
What about you, Ken?
Ken Goodman: Uh, you know, piggy piggybacking off of,
um, Lawrence and Tracy.
Yeah.
I mean, I've, I've got, uh, long term connections from my cohort as well.
Um, and I appreciate them.
We, we keep in regular contact.
Um, but probably the biggest skill or the biggest takeaway for me
personally was my ability to shift my mindset from a place that I don't
want to be to where I do want to be.
Um, you can call it being able to focus or redirect.
Um, but that has been the single most useful thing that I've taken away,
uh, from the forge and the place I'll wallows in whatever state of mind
I'm in, if I don't want to be there.
Like if I don't want to be aggravated or upset or sad or whatever,
whatever it is, I don't be.
I use the techniques and the teachings in the Forge.
To put myself in a position to be more successful in the immediate term, as
well as moving forward out of, you know, the position that I find myself.
Chris Williams: One of the things that you would have to have been in the forge
to witness with you, Ken, is that as you were going through that transformation,
you would go places like you'd go to the bar and whoever was working at the
bar somehow picked up on the sense that you're a person that they could talk to.
And all of a sudden you found yourself coaching all of these people
unsolicited, sorry, unsolicited in the sense that they asked you for help.
Out of the blue, without you sitting there saying, Hey, I'm a
coach, uh, and I'll listen to your problems and maybe I can help you.
They just through conversation got a sense that you possessed or had something
that they wanted for themselves.
And they wanted your advice on how to be more, you know, more present
to not keep making the same bad decisions, et cetera, et cetera.
And it was a natural byproduct of you becoming that person.
Who no longer sat there and wallowed and just, you know, if you're in
self pity mode, you'd stay there.
And if you were in unhappy mode, you would just stay there and fold your
arms and harumph, and, you know, pick up your bat and ball and go home.
And when that changed in you, it immediately drew a
certain kind of person to you.
And that kind of work, that, that sort of impromptu coaching, I know at one
point anyway, made you really happy.
Which was awesome to see.
Let's go.
Thanks for sharing that.
Let's go to Andrus.
Andrus, tell us your story.
Andras Ivanyi: Yeah.
So while I was trying to formulate on how I think about this thing, um, I used
to be the guy who, before the forge, um, was starting everything, but never
really finishing a single thing, like literally ever, ever since I, you Was
a small kid, I wanted to have my own business and I had a tremendous amount
of startup ideas or business ideas are pretty much anything that's in that space.
I always started and after a month.
So, the moment 1 motivation started going down, I just simply.
Um, stop doing it.
And I think the single most important thing or take away, uh, from the
forge was actually the ability to push through to not rely on motivation, but
to, um, to build up this great, um.
And to keep pushing towards a dream, keep pushing towards something that
I want to achieve, um, even was the motivation, the, the, the feeling
of motivation is not there, but just the mental pull towards that thing.
And, um, so that's 1 thing.
And the other thing, I think Tracy mentioned the vision thing.
I never have thought how powerful a aircrafted vision can be because
all of a sudden it starts filtering everything else out in the world.
Everything goes quiet.
And then only what is connected to the vision starts coming out in the daylight.
And even at the beginning, you have no idea how to bring your vision to life.
Um, it's just, you know, a sentence initially, but then soon, you
know, You start forging everything around that sentence, and then it
starts filling up with content.
And I think that's a very impactful, um, practice that we had along
with the, um, personal ethos.
and then the practice of, well, crafting yours first, but then going back to
it day after day and then revisiting it and seeing where, where you are
still not there where you want to be.
Um, and the place where I never will go back is the guy that I
mentioned at the very beginning.
I enjoy finishing things and I've learned that I can actually finish things and
first gave me the confidence that.
This is something that I can maintain as long as I want to.
Chris Williams: Right.
Right.
So you mentioned something important there that all the other agile training that
you may go through focuses on the, the what and the how of doing the framework.
So how do you pick who's going to go get donuts for the daily standup
meeting, et cetera, et cetera.
And I'm being a bit silly, but at the end of the day, it really
is about how to split a ticket in JIRA, uh, or how to prioritize.
And those things are useful and you need to know them, but you
don't need the forge to learn them.
What you need the forge to do is the other stuff.
So let's talk about a couple of achievements here for everybody,
because Tracy mentioned, well, she got a promotion.
So she went from being, uh, at one level and got promoted to
managers doing the manager job.
So she's growing, which is awesome.
And you also packed up and moved.
You went from one place that was no longer suiting you.
And instead of sitting there and accepting it, you went, moved to a different place.
With Lawrence, you've written four books or more.
Uh, with Andrus, you left your corporate full time job to start a company where
you're actually building software that helps people do what we teach in the
forge, which is how to manage your top priorities, how to get laser focused
on what matters most today to move the needle towards writing that book
or getting that promotion or whatever happens to be important to you.
And Ken, you've done a ton of stuff.
You've gotten a totally different job.
You opened up a fishing channel on YouTube.
Which all of this stuff we'll put links to.
So be prepared at the end to gimme some links on where to find you in your work
if you'd like the the public to know.
The next question was gonna be about what was the most important
takeaway, but I think many of us have already discussed that.
The vision one I really like because most people don't know that you don't
get into a car and just turn the GPS on and expect it to take you somewhere.
You gotta punch in some coordinates, but having that concrete picture of
the future allows you to operate.
We're no longer in the comfortable past mode, which is who was
I, what did I used to do?
What were my default reactions to circumstances?
How did I handle pressure?
How did I handle conflict or negotiation?
All of those things that we avoided or didn't do in the past, we did it not
really knowing why we didn't do it.
And that's what keeps us comfortable and keeps us safe.
But the minute you have a different version or vision of the future, it
forces you to move off of that spot.
You can no longer be the person that you used to be, afraid of what you were afraid
of, accepting what you used to accept.
You now have to change, you have to act differently, but the mind Is this
supercomputer that just like a GPS automatically knows what to do to
reroute you to your new destination.
There is literally almost nothing to do except set that vision.
So I'm going to ask you a question that you may not be prepared for.
If you could do a forge version 2, a second round, would you
come up with a bigger vision than you did the first time around?
And what might it be?
Laurens Bonnema: I'm actually going to, I'm going to answer 2 questions.
The 1 thing I learned in the forge that I've never forgotten.
Um, there's actually a different answer for that than the 1 I already gave.
Um, for me, the thing that really sticks is seeing you
in the moment, taking action.
So, at some point, we had this question on how to do this.
You just opened up an Excel sheet, started working.
And as you were doing that explained.
This is the way I roll.
I immediately take action.
So if that is at all possible, that's one thing I copied.
And actually last week or night was not last week.
I think it may have even been yesterday.
I was on a call and just opened up the the.
Get up software to enter in a meeting with two people who
wanted to go on as speakers.
We were talking about that and I just asked them, so you want to speak?
Yeah, I'm scheduling you right now.
What's, what's, what's going to be the title?
I typed it in after that talk, it was done.
That's the forge, right?
So not just knowing what to do and saying, yeah, I'll, I'll get the link
and then maybe next week we type it in.
No,
Urgency.
Uh, if you can do it now, do it now, because otherwise it'll just be something
on a list that stresses you out.
And that for me was a big lesson because I still have lists that stress me out.
And the forge just.
But really rework that for me, the thing I would do to answer your actual
question, the thing I would do in a forge to is indeed make the vision bigger.
So my vision would now be start my own company.
Um, really go solo as opposed to being afraid of that.
Because 1 of the 1st time I joined the forge, that was the thing
that scared me and it still does.
But now I would probably work on that.
Chris Williams: Good for you.
I consider what I do with all of you research, right?
I'm learning as much as I'm teaching.
So one of the things that I've noticed about people is that it's much, much, much
harder for some people to stay an employee when they realize they're limitless.
Because the question arises, what am I doing?
Who am I doing it for?
And when you ask that question, of course, the answer could be, I could be,
I could be impacting so many more people.
And I'm going to ask you in a minute, who do you think the Forge is for?
But I'm going to pre answer the question.
I think it's for people who really desire impact, right?
Because Agile is changing.
Let's face it.
It's no longer, you know, we've talked a few times, Lawrence, about
the state of the education industry.
We know the Agile conferences are begging for people.
Like, revenues are down 30%.
We know the jobs are hard to find.
And some of the best of the best in our industry are posting on LinkedIn.
Like, not only am I out of work, but it's getting serious.
Like, I'm in trouble.
So the industry is changing.
We can't just sit there and plug our ears and pretend it's not happening.
We have to take action and figure out what's next.
You can't do that without bigger vision.
Yeah.
And if we, what we learned in the forge was limited to agile skill, how to split
tickets in Jira, we'd all be in big, big trouble because we'd have nowhere to go.
If someone pulls the job title out from under us.
So thanks for that.
Share being an entrepreneur, running your own company, very common by product.
of starting in the forge, even though people like, I don't
want to run my own business.
They do find that they want to do something that transcends the role
of title in the corporate brand.
So thank you for that.
Anyone else want to contribute?
If there was a, if there was a version two, what would you do differently?
What would you do bigger?
Go ahead.
Andras Ivanyi: I'm happy to share on this front.
So my vision in the first one was to multiply wisdom and I
experimented a little bit with various implementations of this one.
Let's put it that way.
And honestly, I would not make it.
I don't know how to make it even bigger.
There is a scaling that is happening within me in the past couple of weeks.
I started realizing.
Previously, I was very, very happy with just working with one on one clients,
um, in the coachings or maybe doing some trainings, but now I feel more
like, hey, this is actually something that millions of people would need
to know about and the vision itself still can contain this whole thing.
So no change is needed on that front and alternative
phrasing could be maybe I make.
Of wisdom grow exponentially, but then that's way too long compared to the other
one, but could be an alternative thing.
Um, on the other hand, it's it close it by itself without even a fortune to the toe.
But with a forged 2.
0, what I would be doing differently, um, is that I would take the vision even
more serious in the everyday decisions.
Once I have said that, um, maybe that maybe that's that's the difference.
Chris Williams: That's a really good one because one thing that was really hard
for me was forcing people to go big.
I didn't want to push people and maybe I should have and said, you know,
that's cool, but it's not big enough because some people started very much
inside that shell of timidity where they didn't feel like they were entitled
to ask for or state something big.
Okay.
So my next question I have for you is for those people who are out there watching
who haven't been through the experience.
Who is the forge for?
And what do you think it solves for that person?
So who the forge is for really asking is what kind of person
would and should be in the forge?
And what do you think that kind of person struggles with the forge could
help them solve once and for all?
Whoever wants to go.
Ken Goodman: I got, um, the forge is literally for anybody that wants to
improve him or herself in any aspect of life, whether it's personal,
professional, um, social, you know, whatever it is, uh, there is
something in the forge for everybody.
And I, I mean that quite literally, and while some people maybe with more
experience in their life, May find parts of the forge somewhat familiar.
Uh, Chris has a way of, uh, coaching and, and applying the sections of
the forge that will test anybody.
What is the line about the forge?
You harden steel with fire?
Well, if you want to be hardened, if you want to test yourself, you should sit down
and have a talk about joining a cohort, because I think any 1 of us here can
make a promise that you will be tested.
and push some boundaries that you didn't know that you could exceed.
And you'll probably end up being surprised at how much you'll improve, the things
that you'll learn and the capabilities you will become vividly aware that
you have that you didn't know you had.
Chris Williams: Thanks, Ken.
I'm glad you had that experience and that's a great way to frame it.
You know, I hadn't really thought of it that way, but it's good to know that you
got that out of the program because so many people just keep on carrying on.
And they never really run into the limitless me.
If I could do anything, what would it be?
Well, it's whatever I'm already doing.
No, no, no.
We could go bigger.
And certain people, I think the people who belong in the forge are the
people who are called to go bigger.
That tends to be my opinion.
Does anyone else have an opinion?
Laurens Bonnema: Well, I'd like to add to what Ken just said.
Um, by saying, Yes to that, but also adding, and it's for people who know
or deeply feel could do better if only, if only they weren't insecure,
if only they had the time, if only so all the if onlys bring them to the
forge, um, and they'll be hammered into the, the, the, you, that you always
wanted to become because it's not like.
It's not abuse or anything, right?
So it's, it's, it's you working on you with a lot of help.
And, um, the, the, the thing that helped me is I'm perennially insecure
about every single thing that I do.
The only thing that I'm not insecure about is the shit I know.
Uh, so I know, I know a lot of things, but.
Um, I feel really insecure in taking action and that insecurity has, I wouldn't
say evaporated because it's still there.
It's, it's still in me.
So it's not that I've become this wildly different person, but I
don't let it stop me anymore.
And that is big.
Uh, and before you know it, you'll start to dream bigger.
Um, and that becomes normal and people start to ask.
How on earth are you getting that amount of stuff done?
Um, people literally ask, ask questions about that.
So how are you able to do this?
I mean, you have a full time job.
You coach a ton of people.
You write books.
You, you apparently also find the time to write proposals for
presentations and then actually go there and, and you have a family.
Um, that also takes some of your time.
So how on earth are you doing this?
And for me, the answer is, I was always doing a little bit of that,
not feeling insecure about what you're doing, just speeds up
things and allows you to do more.
Chris Williams: And not only do you do more, but you do less of the things
that don't matter as per Agile, right?
Do the important things first, do the less important things, maybe
never, maybe we never do them.
And we live so much of our lives trying to do things because we think we ought to.
When someone tells us that we should.
But at the end of the day, if it doesn't make you happy, if it's not who you truly
want to be, we shouldn't do them at all.
So when you really hone and focus your efforts, it changes the quality of
what you create, which is wonderful.
So again, I'm really glad that you had that experience Lawrence.
Thanks for adding that.
Does anyone else want to throw down?
We have just a few minutes left and I have like maybe one other question and
then we'll wrap up with some, where can people find you and some closing thoughts.
Does anyone else want to throw down?
Tracy Baer: I remember when I first joined the forge that I was thinking
that this was going to be all about Agile and I was going to learn some
new concepts perhaps around Agile but man was I mistaken it it's although it
had an Agile flair to it at the time I am assuming it's changed since then.
But it really wasn't about Agile at all.
It was about all those things that Lawrence and Ken
mentioned, and then some, right?
And You know, what I really came to realize that it was more about,
uh, learning about yourself and seeing yourself as who you really
truly are and being able to come to the table as who you truly are.
And it was about leadership to really a lot of focus on, on leadership.
And what does that really truly mean?
Be a leader and and all the ins and outs of of that realm.
Chris Williams: Thank you, Tracy.
That was a great comment.
Let's just wrap it up.
We got about a few minutes left.
If you had to say, because all of you have stayed connected, like you were
the first group of people I wanted to talk to, because you naturally chime
in, join in, pop up, you know, you show up around the forge and what we
call the alumni is called the sanctuary and you guys are popping in every
once in a while or you're coaching new cohorts or you're, you know, you're
helping me with my marketing efforts.
What I've always found is that the people who belong here already know
the more I try to drag somebody into the forge, the less it works.
The looser the fit, but people who are like, I think I want this.
This is speaking to me.
I've this, the things I'm hearing today are the things that I'm curious
about, want to know more about.
And if that's you, you probably have a seat here already.
That's what I've learned.
But I'd love to know from you, if we could just be succinct, can you think
of one thing that the forge has gotten you raise promotion, better family
life, personal life, more confidence?
I don't care what it is.
What was the biggest thing that the forge got you?
And then.
For me, going forward, what was something you, what is something you would love
to see added or improved in the forge to make it even better for future cohorts?
And again, anyone can answer.
Ken Goodman: Um, for me, it's, uh, it's the calm up here.
You know, I, I coach a lot of men of all ages.
And the 1 thing I found is that most men have a storm that's
constantly brewing inside and we all navigate it differently for me.
Personally, my, my stormy seas have gotten a lot calmer.
Uh, since I went through the forge and, um.
So, for me, if I were to recommend an improvement or change to
the forge, it would be to focus or have more content on those.
Soft skills, especially on self improvement and challenging oneself, uh,
in any way possible, because those are the areas that I have benefited from the most.
And I think they provide a solid foundation to set somebody up for
greater success in doing anything else is once you have a greater control
over your mind, heart, and soul.
Chris Williams: Well said.
And couldn't we use more of that in North America in politics and culture and work?
I can't speak for anywhere else, but certainly here, it feels
like we need that more than ever.
And we start every session with just let's stop and breathe for a minute.
Let's have some quiet and some calm and some singularity of focus.
Thank you for that, Ken.
Anyone else want to add?
What is the forge giving you?
What's one big thing that the forge got for you?
And what might you, what do you think might improve it in the future?
Laurens Bonnema: I'd like to add to Ken's statement.
I coach, I coach a lot of women and they have the same thing.
Um, so I think the human condition in general is, um, Is what we're
talking about, and it is, it helps to truly get focus for me.
The big thing in the forge is, um, a better sense of self
assuredness and indeed more calm.
Uh, the one thing I think.
think that the forge could do to improve even further, not copy again,
because I thought that was an excellent suggestion, um, is maybe find a way to
strengthen the, the swim buddy connection.
Uh, so that it's no longer a question or a happenstance thing at the end that
could happen that you stay in touch like forever, like Tracy and I do.
Um, but.
That, that becomes really part of the experience.
And I know that that was the intent and it's, it's always the intent, but
somehow it doesn't magically happen.
So maybe some experiments to, to run, to try and get there.
Chris Williams: That is a great statement though.
Laurens Bonnema: My succinct statement would be you've only one life and come
to the forge to learn how to live it.
Chris Williams: Wow, dude, that's powerful.
Thank you for that.
I appreciate it.
Anyone else want to chime in?
What was your big takeaway?
The bit, the thing the forge gave you that's most important to you and
what might improve it in the future?
Anyone else?
Andras Ivanyi: Yeah, to, to also add my two cents, uh, self confidence.
Definitely.
Um, I think it was also mentioned a couple of times, uh, already, but, uh,
that's, I think the single most important thing that right now I started believing
in myself because I started seeing that I, indeed, this limitlessness thing
that, that, you know, Was mentioned that it's there and, uh, and that
it is, uh, attainable, achievable.
Not sure what's the right word.
Um, and, um, how to further tweak it.
I think there is a pattern amongst what all of us are saying, and this
could be even taken further down.
Uh, and the area which goes in the direction of, uh, creates, uh,
day in day out progress, um, deep focus, deep work, uh, flow, all
these kind of topics could be even extended a little bit further down.
Um, because this both as a leader, but also as an individual contributor
as a business owner, as anyone, these are the essential skills that can, uh,
move the can and will move the needle.
And I think you are mentioning it many, many times throughout the forge that.
Yeah, reading the books is great, but not applying the knowledge.
We are.
Entirely worthless in the end.
And just reinforcing this, uh, in people and showing, uh, more and more practices,
uh, would go even further, I think.
Chris Williams: Thank you for that, Andrews.
Tracy, do you want to throw down?
Tracy Baer: Yeah, I could just add one word and I think it's already been
mentioned confidence, confidence in myself, confidence in my ability to
ask for what I want, what I deserve.
Chris Williams: Very well said.
Thank you, Tracy.
One last round, guys.
I'm so grateful for you being part of this today.
Thank you for taking time to do it.
Thank you again for being part of the forge and for trusting me
with your ongoing development.
Thank you for staying connected and making this community what it is.
I really appreciate that and I hope this has been helpful for people who've been
thinking about the forge or thinking about what they need as a next step in their,
in their career or personal development.
But where can they find you?
Some of the things that you have done or have built since the forge or because
of the forge, where can people find you?
Give us your online, your links, your URLs, and I'll put them
in the show notes as well.
Um,
Laurens Bonnema: well, for me, that's really simple.
Find me on LinkedIn.
That's where I do most of the stuff.
Um, and of course you can also find me at bonama.
inc with a K at the end for the drawings that I create.
Um, and that's actually something that's taken off now.
Uh, and also thanks to the forge.
Chris Williams: Thank you, Lawrence.
What about you, Ken?
Ken Goodman: My social media handles pretty much the
agile angler or agile angler.
And, uh, you can reach me at agileangler at gmail.
com.
Chris Williams: Thank you very much, Ken.
Andrus, how about you?
Where can people find you?
Andras Ivanyi: Um, primarily also LinkedIn and also Toad.
works, um, which is also a small goal setting app, just
one goal at a time for a day.
And, uh, there they can also try it out as well.
Chris Williams: Awesome.
Tracy, is there anywhere that people can find you?
Tracy Baer: Yeah.
Uh, just LinkedIn.
I'm not as fancy as these other folks, their own businesses and
corporations, but uh, yeah, you can, you can find me on LinkedIn.
Chris Williams: Friends.
Thank you.
Not only for doing this with me today, but for inspiring me for being the
reason why I do what I do every day.
The reason I get up and get out of bed is to meet people like you and make
a difference one person at a time.
But thank you for helping me build this.
It wouldn't be here Without you and I'm eternally grateful for each one
of you and I'm so happy to have you on the show today Thanks so much friends.
Laurens Bonnema: Thanks Chris.
Thank you.
Thanks for being a badass.
Chris Williams: No problem We'll catch you the next episode
everybody until then stay badass