WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:00.500 --> 00:00:04.200 Chris Williams: A few years ago, I decided with the help of some of the 00:00:04.200 --> 00:00:08.150 people on this call, as a matter of fact, to take what was a podcast of 00:00:08.150 --> 00:00:12.770 original ideas and turn it into a course, a systematic way for people to learn 00:00:13.239 --> 00:00:15.450 what we were talking about in the show. 00:00:16.000 --> 00:00:20.100 And what you're about to see today are a bunch of people who have been through the 00:00:20.100 --> 00:00:22.110 forge over the past four or five years. 00:00:22.110 --> 00:00:26.110 So starting with Lawrence, Lawrence, you were one of the first people 00:00:26.110 --> 00:00:28.829 to reach out from the Netherlands and say, this should be a thing. 00:00:29.075 --> 00:00:30.655 At very least it should be a community. 00:00:30.655 --> 00:00:33.215 Lawrence is from the Netherlands and he was in cohort one. 00:00:33.225 --> 00:00:34.035 Welcome, Lawrence. 00:00:34.785 --> 00:00:39.175 And then I'll move to, uh, Ken, you were part of cohort, I want to say three. 00:00:40.575 --> 00:00:40.864 Ken Goodman: Yeah. 00:00:40.955 --> 00:00:42.455 Chris Williams: You're part of cohort three. 00:00:42.924 --> 00:00:46.415 And, uh, you're joining us from Buffalo, New York. 00:00:46.415 --> 00:00:49.385 And then finally, Andrus, you're joining us from Germany and 00:00:49.385 --> 00:00:51.415 you were part of cohort five. 00:00:52.055 --> 00:00:52.765 So I welcome you. 00:00:52.765 --> 00:00:53.934 We're expecting one other person. 00:00:53.935 --> 00:00:57.205 I'm not sure whether or not she'll be able to join, but here's the idea. 00:00:57.714 --> 00:01:00.434 I want to find out from you, what has the forge done or 00:01:00.434 --> 00:01:01.885 changed for you over the years? 00:01:02.514 --> 00:01:06.554 And is there anything that we could do that would make it more modern, 00:01:06.554 --> 00:01:10.214 more current, or somehow better, but I want the world to meet you guys. 00:01:10.214 --> 00:01:13.274 And I want you to meet the rest of the audience because you've 00:01:13.395 --> 00:01:16.984 all been formative in building the forge into what it is today. 00:01:16.984 --> 00:01:18.605 So first of all, welcome everybody. 00:01:18.855 --> 00:01:21.315 And then I'm going to go around the room and let you introduce yourself. 00:01:21.315 --> 00:01:22.485 Let us know what you do. 00:01:23.075 --> 00:01:26.075 And, uh, then we'll start, I'll start, I have some directed questions to 00:01:26.085 --> 00:01:27.545 ask you about your Forge experience. 00:01:27.554 --> 00:01:29.155 So Lawrence, please, let's begin with you. 00:01:30.064 --> 00:01:30.284 Laurens Bonnema: Yeah. 00:01:30.285 --> 00:01:30.984 My name is Lawrence. 00:01:30.984 --> 00:01:31.924 I live in the Netherlands. 00:01:31.945 --> 00:01:37.524 Uh, I'm an Agile Management Consultant and Trainer, um, certified in like 00:01:37.604 --> 00:01:39.124 everything you can be certified in. 00:01:39.494 --> 00:01:41.615 Um, and, um, um, yeah. 00:01:41.685 --> 00:01:43.475 By now author of a couple of books. 00:01:44.015 --> 00:01:47.585 Um, and, uh, I joined the forge mostly because I was just a 00:01:47.885 --> 00:01:52.005 huge fan of, in my opinion, the best sounding podcasts on earth. 00:01:52.454 --> 00:01:54.985 Uh, and it just happens to be about agile. 00:01:54.985 --> 00:01:57.384 So I could not not to listen to it. 00:01:57.875 --> 00:02:02.304 Um, and, uh, a coworker of mine and actually a good friend also, she. 00:02:02.785 --> 00:02:07.485 Ask me, I want to do more with like that, that essential podcast that you pointed 00:02:07.485 --> 00:02:11.275 me towards because I really, really think this dude is on to something. 00:02:11.665 --> 00:02:15.325 Um, and so she sent an email and that got the ball rolling. 00:02:15.815 --> 00:02:16.445 Chris Williams: Absolutely. 00:02:16.445 --> 00:02:17.174 I'm glad you did. 00:02:17.174 --> 00:02:20.055 Cause I had, I had thought to myself, I should do something. 00:02:20.430 --> 00:02:21.940 But I had no idea what something was. 00:02:22.380 --> 00:02:26.540 And it took your insight and your recommendation to firm it up and form 00:02:26.540 --> 00:02:30.640 it into something that became an actual thing that you can now, you know, 00:02:30.710 --> 00:02:34.859 touch and join and, and spend time with and hopefully get some benefit from. 00:02:34.859 --> 00:02:35.690 So welcome Lawrence. 00:02:35.690 --> 00:02:38.889 Thank you so much for being here and thank you for being part of the inspiration for 00:02:39.260 --> 00:02:40.790 starting the forge in the first place. 00:02:40.790 --> 00:02:44.519 Let's go then sequentially up to Ken from cohort three. 00:02:44.519 --> 00:02:45.500 Tell us about yourself, Ken. 00:02:46.410 --> 00:02:49.020 Ken Goodman: Well, you know, I started off my career as a software engineer 00:02:49.020 --> 00:02:53.550 before moving into quality engineering and then pursuing a management track, 00:02:53.730 --> 00:02:56.980 uh, something that was always pretty passionate about, uh, leading people. 00:02:57.589 --> 00:03:00.360 And then along came, uh, an agile coach, uh, working with the 00:03:00.360 --> 00:03:01.969 company I was with at the time. 00:03:02.009 --> 00:03:04.320 And I knew right then and there, that's what I wanted to do. 00:03:05.250 --> 00:03:09.280 And so I have pursued that and I've been agile coaching, uh, 00:03:09.300 --> 00:03:10.980 for about the past 10 years. 00:03:11.810 --> 00:03:16.950 And I choose to do it because It's a, it's a medium for me to help improve 00:03:16.950 --> 00:03:20.830 the lives of people that love the work that they do so that they never 00:03:20.830 --> 00:03:24.040 have to, you know, feel stressed or pressured and carry that burden home. 00:03:24.040 --> 00:03:27.189 Like, you know, I used to back in the old waterfall days 00:03:27.240 --> 00:03:28.940 and I, I love it quite a bit. 00:03:29.360 --> 00:03:33.320 And I apply my, you know, agile, you know, Mindset and approach to 00:03:33.320 --> 00:03:35.900 experimentation to tournament fishing. 00:03:36.010 --> 00:03:37.940 Uh, something that I do, uh, personally. 00:03:39.390 --> 00:03:43.180 Chris Williams: And I see we've got Tracy, Tracy, you're from cohort two, I believe. 00:03:43.679 --> 00:03:45.990 And I know you just joined due to some technical difficulties. 00:03:45.990 --> 00:03:46.479 So welcome. 00:03:46.480 --> 00:03:47.770 We're just kind of underway. 00:03:48.049 --> 00:03:49.220 Tell us a bit about yourself. 00:03:49.220 --> 00:03:52.340 Don't you don't have to name where you work, but, um, tell us what 00:03:52.360 --> 00:03:54.770 you do and how you found the forge. 00:03:56.230 --> 00:04:00.480 Tracy Baer: My name is Tracy, and I work for a national 00:04:00.510 --> 00:04:02.509 insurance company in Canada. 00:04:03.439 --> 00:04:10.180 So I currently reside in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada, which is a mouthful. 00:04:10.730 --> 00:04:16.060 And when I joined the forge, I was, yes, I joined into cohort two. 00:04:16.899 --> 00:04:24.960 And the reason why I joined was my manager at the time, um, uh, Was a fan of Chris's, 00:04:24.969 --> 00:04:31.100 uh, Badass Agile podcast that he had and had been listening to those podcasts and 00:04:31.180 --> 00:04:33.190 pointed me in the direction of The Forge. 00:04:33.560 --> 00:04:39.820 So that's how I came to learn about it and the reason why I ended up joining 00:04:39.820 --> 00:04:43.210 was on his, uh, prompting to do so. 00:04:43.640 --> 00:04:45.530 And I'm super glad that I did. 00:04:46.265 --> 00:04:47.234 Chris Williams: I'm glad that you did too. 00:04:47.234 --> 00:04:48.945 And thank you so much for coming today. 00:04:48.955 --> 00:04:49.765 Glad you could make it. 00:04:50.325 --> 00:04:53.565 And then last but not least, Andras from Cohort 5. 00:04:53.594 --> 00:04:54.594 Tell us about yourself. 00:04:56.175 --> 00:04:56.435 Andras Ivanyi: Yeah. 00:04:56.444 --> 00:04:57.195 Hi, everyone. 00:04:57.625 --> 00:04:58.895 It's great to be here. 00:04:58.984 --> 00:05:06.330 Um, so my name is Andras and right now I'm Uh, self employed, uh, specializing in 00:05:06.460 --> 00:05:12.640 trainings and coachings, as well as I also build a small tool around core setting. 00:05:13.300 --> 00:05:21.219 Um, I think I came across the Forge, uh, or the concept of 00:05:21.230 --> 00:05:23.480 Forge probably 3 years ago. 00:05:23.980 --> 00:05:30.180 Um, about half a year earlier, I started listening to the BetterCentrify podcast. 00:05:31.150 --> 00:05:34.960 It was, uh, Being mentioned in a training that I was attending 00:05:34.979 --> 00:05:39.390 at the time that, hey, by the way, does anyone listen to that? 00:05:39.400 --> 00:05:40.020 I said, China. 00:05:40.469 --> 00:05:41.499 I didn't like the name. 00:05:41.500 --> 00:05:42.500 So I checked it out. 00:05:42.570 --> 00:05:42.780 And. 00:05:43.374 --> 00:05:45.965 I fell in love with the content immediately. 00:05:46.215 --> 00:05:51.145 And then, um, at 1 point, you started advertising or mentioning it. 00:05:51.255 --> 00:05:55.395 By the way, there is this 1 year long immersive leadership 00:05:55.534 --> 00:05:56.755 development experience. 00:05:57.524 --> 00:06:01.954 And at that time, I felt it is really something that I would love to do. 00:06:02.205 --> 00:06:05.095 Like to do, um, went for it. 00:06:05.095 --> 00:06:08.855 I was a line manager of, uh, HI coaches back then. 00:06:09.325 --> 00:06:17.075 And, uh, I started, um, utilizing it basically right from the beginning. 00:06:17.665 --> 00:06:18.035 Chris Williams: Excellent. 00:06:18.349 --> 00:06:20.060 Thank you for joining as well, Andres. 00:06:20.250 --> 00:06:24.430 So let's dig into some of the things that I'm hoping will be useful for each other. 00:06:24.729 --> 00:06:28.089 One of the things I love about what we built here is that we remain a community 00:06:28.089 --> 00:06:32.099 over time, not only when the program is over, and it's a year long immersion, 00:06:32.099 --> 00:06:35.519 by the way, so there's a lot of time spent getting to know one another. 00:06:36.199 --> 00:06:38.249 So not only do we maintain our. 00:06:38.550 --> 00:06:41.630 Partner relationships with, you know, our swim buddy relationships, the team 00:06:41.630 --> 00:06:43.650 relationships, but also intra teams. 00:06:43.660 --> 00:06:46.420 So some of you have met each other before and continue to 00:06:46.420 --> 00:06:47.510 help and support each other. 00:06:48.090 --> 00:06:51.290 When we started it, the idea was to create something so good 00:06:51.290 --> 00:06:52.489 that no one could catch us. 00:06:52.730 --> 00:06:55.470 And I didn't know what that meant, except for the fact that as a 00:06:55.470 --> 00:06:58.990 learning experience I wanted it to be something that would stick. 00:06:59.430 --> 00:07:02.410 A lot of learning experiences, you go, you take the course, you read the 00:07:02.410 --> 00:07:07.455 book, maybe, you do the exercises, maybe, But within six months, you'll 00:07:07.455 --> 00:07:11.484 probably have retained about 10 percent by statistics of what you learned. 00:07:11.515 --> 00:07:12.854 So we wanted to fix that. 00:07:12.854 --> 00:07:15.044 We wanted to make it more immediately applicable. 00:07:15.054 --> 00:07:16.075 Hence the year. 00:07:16.484 --> 00:07:19.095 Hence the homework was meant to be situational. 00:07:19.095 --> 00:07:21.284 Like the homework is not, go think about this. 00:07:21.294 --> 00:07:24.044 It's about, It's about going back to the workplace and bringing the 00:07:24.044 --> 00:07:28.315 new skills to the job and seeing what happens and reporting back. 00:07:28.945 --> 00:07:32.885 But of course, we also noticed about the forge is that the most important things, 00:07:32.885 --> 00:07:36.564 the things that we're sticking with people again, going by the analytics, 00:07:36.694 --> 00:07:40.645 the stuff that people were really digging into commenting on listening to. 00:07:41.810 --> 00:07:46.080 tended to be the stuff that was counter, uh, counterculture, if you will. 00:07:46.460 --> 00:07:49.200 So it's not the stuff that they're saying in the Agile books, in the Agile 00:07:49.200 --> 00:07:51.410 memes, in the Agile certified courseware. 00:07:51.420 --> 00:07:54.869 It's in fact the opposite sometimes. 00:07:55.320 --> 00:07:58.860 So I wanted to take all of my personal learning experiences and 00:07:58.860 --> 00:08:03.494 gel them together into one cohesive bunch and then make it simple. 00:08:03.785 --> 00:08:06.165 Simple to learn, simple to use, simple to remember. 00:08:06.725 --> 00:08:10.245 So the reason why we come back together for this podcast episode 00:08:10.245 --> 00:08:11.945 is to ask the question, did it work? 00:08:11.945 --> 00:08:15.025 So then my, my first question for you really is what's happened to you 00:08:15.475 --> 00:08:16.865 since you went through the forge? 00:08:16.865 --> 00:08:21.914 So if you can think about something that you got out of the forge that you 00:08:21.915 --> 00:08:26.245 remember and attribute to your forge experience, I'd love to hear about that. 00:08:26.665 --> 00:08:30.515 I'd love to hear about things that broke open for you because you went 00:08:30.515 --> 00:08:32.605 through the forge, like a skill. 00:08:33.284 --> 00:08:35.975 That you didn't have before and you thought maybe you'd never get 00:08:36.375 --> 00:08:37.495 or you didn't know you needed. 00:08:38.655 --> 00:08:43.228 And most importantly, can you say definitively, who or 00:08:43.228 --> 00:08:46.111 what will I never go back to? 00:08:46.111 --> 00:08:52.895 So maybe before the forge, you felt uninspired, unenlightened, unmotivated. 00:08:53.305 --> 00:08:56.835 Uh, you felt like you had a lack of discipline or a lack of accountability 00:08:56.835 --> 00:08:58.365 or you had a hard time asking for help. 00:08:58.375 --> 00:09:00.535 I'd love to know what things you'll never go back to. 00:09:00.564 --> 00:09:03.365 So you can answer any or all of those three questions. 00:09:03.365 --> 00:09:05.285 What did it give you that you couldn't get anywhere else? 00:09:06.104 --> 00:09:10.675 What, what's cracked open for you and so what doors open for you and 00:09:10.675 --> 00:09:11.725 then what doors closed for you? 00:09:11.725 --> 00:09:13.035 What things will you never go back to? 00:09:13.035 --> 00:09:14.155 So I'll start again with Lawrence. 00:09:14.905 --> 00:09:16.035 Well, the, the force gave 00:09:16.035 --> 00:09:17.924 Laurens Bonnema: me that I couldn't get anywhere else was, 00:09:17.995 --> 00:09:22.444 um, really tight connection to people with a similar mindset. 00:09:22.794 --> 00:09:28.145 Um, and like, weekly conversations, real conversations, not just getting 00:09:28.145 --> 00:09:29.615 together and sharing a bit of knowledge. 00:09:30.145 --> 00:09:34.885 Um, and also like long term friendship, Tracy and I stay in touch, um, 00:09:34.895 --> 00:09:36.885 still every week at least once. 00:09:37.514 --> 00:09:41.974 Um, and we, we hound each other to get shit done essentially. 00:09:42.324 --> 00:09:45.914 And that's the belief or ability that was cracked open for me. 00:09:46.425 --> 00:09:50.665 Um, I was always, and still am, um, like a walking bookcase, right? 00:09:50.665 --> 00:09:53.765 People actually, actually call me an encyclopedia. 00:09:54.305 --> 00:09:55.455 Um, and I was proud of that. 00:09:55.485 --> 00:09:59.185 I know, I know a lot and that, that's my job. 00:09:59.694 --> 00:10:01.895 That's it's like a Tyrion Lannister of Agile. 00:10:02.545 --> 00:10:04.114 I, I drink and I know things. 00:10:04.574 --> 00:10:06.649 Uh, but the, the, the weird thing was. 00:10:07.770 --> 00:10:08.680 Having the knowledge. 00:10:08.689 --> 00:10:10.900 Knowledge isn't actually power. 00:10:11.460 --> 00:10:17.270 Um, and that's a thing that, like, weirdly was highlighted for me in The Forge. 00:10:17.469 --> 00:10:22.350 So all these embers of knowledge got, like, um, whipped together. 00:10:22.549 --> 00:10:25.780 Almost literally whipped, by the way, because Chris wasn't 00:10:25.800 --> 00:10:26.949 having any of my bullshit. 00:10:27.694 --> 00:10:32.625 And the fun thing there was that, like, I already knew all these 00:10:32.625 --> 00:10:35.805 things, but I wasn't taking action on even a single one of them. 00:10:36.365 --> 00:10:40.335 Um, and what it brought me was the notion you can know all you want, 00:10:40.515 --> 00:10:44.284 but if you don't start actually doing something, it's actually useless. 00:10:44.645 --> 00:10:45.805 Literally useless. 00:10:45.805 --> 00:10:49.255 And I was helping others with stuff, but not me. 00:10:49.555 --> 00:10:51.615 I was always only helping other people. 00:10:51.985 --> 00:10:56.695 And that's the thing that was cracked open is Why am I not taking my own advice? 00:10:57.265 --> 00:10:58.635 This, this is just weird. 00:10:58.855 --> 00:11:00.545 So I started doing that just a little bit. 00:11:00.545 --> 00:11:04.895 I mean, I haven't morphed into this weirdly different person all of a sudden, 00:11:05.725 --> 00:11:09.785 but it got started that got the ball rolling every day, just a little bit 00:11:09.994 --> 00:11:12.994 and stop listening to my own bullshit. 00:11:13.244 --> 00:11:13.574 Right? 00:11:13.655 --> 00:11:16.905 And recognizing it for what it is, usually an excuse, because 00:11:16.905 --> 00:11:18.204 I'm afraid to get started. 00:11:18.555 --> 00:11:20.344 And now I'm not afraid to talk about that. 00:11:20.515 --> 00:11:21.915 And that's the key thing. 00:11:22.605 --> 00:11:28.584 Um, actually the key thing is I now ask for help, um, getting over that hump. 00:11:28.865 --> 00:11:30.764 And, uh, my help is called Tracy. 00:11:31.234 --> 00:11:34.184 It's really, it's an extremely simple concept, but it works. 00:11:34.185 --> 00:11:38.385 She just, every time, every week I tell her, I haven't done the thing. 00:11:38.475 --> 00:11:39.194 And she just, 00:11:41.895 --> 00:11:44.305 Chris Williams: Also not, also not putting up with any of your shit. 00:11:44.305 --> 00:11:44.724 So what I will 00:11:44.724 --> 00:11:47.714 Laurens Bonnema: never go, exactly. 00:11:48.274 --> 00:11:54.015 Um, and what I will never go back to is, um, not asking for help. 00:11:54.094 --> 00:11:57.684 I actually now actively teach other people the key skill that you need 00:11:57.684 --> 00:12:00.834 to learn is ask for help before you even know that you need it. 00:12:01.195 --> 00:12:03.275 Because if you know that you need it, you're probably too late. 00:12:03.655 --> 00:12:05.214 So you should make it a habit. 00:12:05.285 --> 00:12:06.234 Ask for help all the time. 00:12:06.244 --> 00:12:07.224 Because people like to help. 00:12:07.234 --> 00:12:08.405 I like to help other people. 00:12:08.415 --> 00:12:11.064 So if you, it's not a shameful thing. 00:12:11.064 --> 00:12:12.224 It's an, it's a power move. 00:12:12.990 --> 00:12:17.310 Um, and that, that's what, that's really what the forge gave me. 00:12:17.940 --> 00:12:21.890 Chris Williams: My big learning through meeting all of you and working with 00:12:21.920 --> 00:12:25.830 different kinds of people is that it's the, the doing is the hardest part. 00:12:25.839 --> 00:12:28.960 So promising and talking about what you know is the easy bit. 00:12:29.240 --> 00:12:33.490 But actually committing to let's say a deadline or a, uh, a contribution 00:12:33.500 --> 00:12:36.980 is the hardest part and the best way to motivate you to do the 00:12:36.980 --> 00:12:40.309 hard thing is to put yourself accountable in front of somebody else. 00:12:40.650 --> 00:12:43.340 And so that's where the concept of SWINBUDDY came from. 00:12:43.430 --> 00:12:48.039 And I think, you know, your testament or testimony is proof 00:12:48.070 --> 00:12:49.410 that it helps or that it works. 00:12:49.860 --> 00:12:50.950 Just to put just a few 00:12:50.960 --> 00:12:53.380 Laurens Bonnema: numbers on it, just for the audience, if you're 00:12:53.380 --> 00:12:58.370 listening before the forge, I was forever wanting to write books. 00:12:58.930 --> 00:13:06.620 And after the forge, I wrote two real books to FAQ books, 00:13:06.620 --> 00:13:08.230 not really books, but bookish. 00:13:08.720 --> 00:13:09.970 Um, so four books. 00:13:10.420 --> 00:13:12.430 As opposed to zero, which is incredible. 00:13:12.439 --> 00:13:13.219 That's the forge for you. 00:13:13.280 --> 00:13:13.719 Chris Williams: Yeah. 00:13:13.819 --> 00:13:14.270 Good job. 00:13:14.280 --> 00:13:14.829 My friend. 00:13:15.230 --> 00:13:16.900 I like, um, I like what you did with it. 00:13:17.170 --> 00:13:21.230 Tracy, if you're still there, can you come on camera and you're from cohort two? 00:13:21.230 --> 00:13:22.270 So I'll make you go next. 00:13:22.410 --> 00:13:22.650 Tracy Baer: Yeah. 00:13:22.839 --> 00:13:26.000 Uh, I liked everything that Lauren had to say there. 00:13:26.020 --> 00:13:28.644 And Lauren, have you finished reading that book? 00:13:30.845 --> 00:13:31.165 I'll give 00:13:31.165 --> 00:13:32.625 Laurens Bonnema: you an update tomorrow, Tracy. 00:13:35.245 --> 00:13:35.625 Tracy Baer: Yeah. 00:13:35.625 --> 00:13:39.725 One of the biggest takeaways out of the forge, of course, was, you know, the 00:13:39.725 --> 00:13:46.614 relationship that I have forged literally with Lauren and I was within the forge, 00:13:46.615 --> 00:13:48.944 but then also outside of the forge. 00:13:48.985 --> 00:13:53.075 Um, as my friend, buddy, my accountability partner, like 00:13:53.075 --> 00:13:55.265 he already said, we touch base. 00:13:55.905 --> 00:14:00.685 Pretty much on a weekly basis to make sure that we are progressing with whatever goal 00:14:00.685 --> 00:14:05.884 that we said that we needed to progress on for that particular week or that month. 00:14:06.324 --> 00:14:08.774 And it, and it flexes and it changes, right? 00:14:08.805 --> 00:14:14.965 Over time, but having somebody to literally, um, keep you accountable 00:14:14.995 --> 00:14:17.724 has been amazing, I feel. 00:14:18.275 --> 00:14:19.055 And. 00:14:20.125 --> 00:14:26.194 One of the other things that I took away from the forge was the whole concept 00:14:26.194 --> 00:14:28.795 of having a personal vision statement. 00:14:30.635 --> 00:14:35.145 I work in a corporate organization, so I'm not unfamiliar with what a vision 00:14:35.145 --> 00:14:42.205 statement is, but I've only ever thought in terms of a corporation before. 00:14:42.225 --> 00:14:47.735 It never became, was never a thought that you could apply that to, you 00:14:47.735 --> 00:14:49.400 know, Somebody's personal life. 00:14:49.810 --> 00:14:57.800 And so for myself, since the forge, I constantly, when I'm trying to make some 00:14:57.880 --> 00:15:03.350 life decisions, bigger life decisions, I keep going back to, okay, what is 00:15:03.350 --> 00:15:05.559 that vision statement for myself? 00:15:05.970 --> 00:15:12.230 And, and having that help to anchor me in some of the, Personal decisions 00:15:12.320 --> 00:15:20.609 that I am faced with making in my life, so that's been tremendous for myself. 00:15:20.980 --> 00:15:26.409 The other thing that changed for me, I think, before the forge, like, like 00:15:26.420 --> 00:15:29.259 Lauren said, I have a lot of knowledge. 00:15:29.500 --> 00:15:35.030 Already that I brought to the table a lot of practice in my field. 00:15:35.200 --> 00:15:40.829 I was, I guess what some people would refer to as an agile scrum master, 00:15:41.289 --> 00:15:45.839 uh, in my world in my corporation, we call them agile team leads. 00:15:46.765 --> 00:15:51.185 And I felt like I was bringing a lot to the table, although in the forge, 00:15:51.214 --> 00:15:53.344 there was so much more to learn. 00:15:53.935 --> 00:16:00.574 And I think I gained a whole lot more confidence in myself and my ability. 00:16:01.144 --> 00:16:02.305 And when. 00:16:02.755 --> 00:16:10.125 You know, even near the end of my time in the forge, my manager came to me, 00:16:10.845 --> 00:16:14.895 you'd have to know the person, but he can be a little bit blunt sometimes. 00:16:15.375 --> 00:16:19.585 And he basically said to me, so do you want to be a manager or what? 00:16:22.015 --> 00:16:29.355 And, you know, I think he really saw growth within myself since I had, 00:16:30.960 --> 00:16:35.940 Participated in the forge and been a member of the, uh, cohort too. 00:16:36.660 --> 00:16:41.149 And I am now managing a team where I work. 00:16:42.209 --> 00:16:43.329 Chris Williams: Great job, Tracy. 00:16:43.560 --> 00:16:45.280 Thanks for the, thanks for the testimony. 00:16:45.280 --> 00:16:46.180 Let's go over to Ken. 00:16:46.409 --> 00:16:47.069 What about you, Ken? 00:16:48.660 --> 00:16:50.760 Ken Goodman: Uh, you know, piggy piggybacking off of, 00:16:50.760 --> 00:16:52.350 um, Lawrence and Tracy. 00:16:52.350 --> 00:16:52.620 Yeah. 00:16:52.650 --> 00:16:57.000 I mean, I've, I've got, uh, long term connections from my cohort as well. 00:16:57.160 --> 00:16:58.600 Um, and I appreciate them. 00:16:58.600 --> 00:17:00.270 We, we keep in regular contact. 00:17:01.055 --> 00:17:05.395 Um, but probably the biggest skill or the biggest takeaway for me 00:17:05.395 --> 00:17:09.634 personally was my ability to shift my mindset from a place that I don't 00:17:09.634 --> 00:17:11.115 want to be to where I do want to be. 00:17:11.764 --> 00:17:14.724 Um, you can call it being able to focus or redirect. 00:17:15.855 --> 00:17:19.944 Um, but that has been the single most useful thing that I've taken away, 00:17:20.095 --> 00:17:27.405 uh, from the forge and the place I'll wallows in whatever state of mind 00:17:27.504 --> 00:17:29.395 I'm in, if I don't want to be there. 00:17:29.715 --> 00:17:32.945 Like if I don't want to be aggravated or upset or sad or whatever, 00:17:33.095 --> 00:17:35.315 whatever it is, I don't be. 00:17:35.535 --> 00:17:39.285 I use the techniques and the teachings in the Forge. 00:17:39.764 --> 00:17:44.385 To put myself in a position to be more successful in the immediate term, as 00:17:44.385 --> 00:17:48.175 well as moving forward out of, you know, the position that I find myself. 00:17:49.055 --> 00:17:51.185 Chris Williams: One of the things that you would have to have been in the forge 00:17:51.185 --> 00:17:55.285 to witness with you, Ken, is that as you were going through that transformation, 00:17:55.295 --> 00:17:59.374 you would go places like you'd go to the bar and whoever was working at the 00:17:59.375 --> 00:18:03.245 bar somehow picked up on the sense that you're a person that they could talk to. 00:18:03.625 --> 00:18:06.215 And all of a sudden you found yourself coaching all of these people 00:18:06.254 --> 00:18:10.105 unsolicited, sorry, unsolicited in the sense that they asked you for help. 00:18:10.315 --> 00:18:12.824 Out of the blue, without you sitting there saying, Hey, I'm a 00:18:12.824 --> 00:18:16.305 coach, uh, and I'll listen to your problems and maybe I can help you. 00:18:16.625 --> 00:18:20.445 They just through conversation got a sense that you possessed or had something 00:18:20.975 --> 00:18:22.465 that they wanted for themselves. 00:18:22.814 --> 00:18:26.365 And they wanted your advice on how to be more, you know, more present 00:18:26.375 --> 00:18:29.464 to not keep making the same bad decisions, et cetera, et cetera. 00:18:29.914 --> 00:18:33.645 And it was a natural byproduct of you becoming that person. 00:18:34.060 --> 00:18:36.830 Who no longer sat there and wallowed and just, you know, if you're in 00:18:36.830 --> 00:18:38.510 self pity mode, you'd stay there. 00:18:38.510 --> 00:18:42.020 And if you were in unhappy mode, you would just stay there and fold your 00:18:42.020 --> 00:18:45.040 arms and harumph, and, you know, pick up your bat and ball and go home. 00:18:45.310 --> 00:18:49.459 And when that changed in you, it immediately drew a 00:18:49.459 --> 00:18:50.609 certain kind of person to you. 00:18:51.740 --> 00:18:55.800 And that kind of work, that, that sort of impromptu coaching, I know at one 00:18:55.800 --> 00:18:57.320 point anyway, made you really happy. 00:18:57.790 --> 00:18:59.010 Which was awesome to see. 00:19:00.110 --> 00:19:00.490 Let's go. 00:19:00.490 --> 00:19:01.380 Thanks for sharing that. 00:19:01.380 --> 00:19:02.150 Let's go to Andrus. 00:19:02.200 --> 00:19:03.240 Andrus, tell us your story. 00:19:04.330 --> 00:19:04.510 Andras Ivanyi: Yeah. 00:19:04.510 --> 00:19:11.470 So while I was trying to formulate on how I think about this thing, um, I used 00:19:11.490 --> 00:19:18.549 to be the guy who, before the forge, um, was starting everything, but never 00:19:18.689 --> 00:19:25.955 really finishing a single thing, like literally ever, ever since I, you Was 00:19:25.975 --> 00:19:31.565 a small kid, I wanted to have my own business and I had a tremendous amount 00:19:31.575 --> 00:19:37.635 of startup ideas or business ideas are pretty much anything that's in that space. 00:19:37.674 --> 00:19:40.425 I always started and after a month. 00:19:40.854 --> 00:19:46.599 So, the moment 1 motivation started going down, I just simply. 00:19:46.940 --> 00:19:48.640 Um, stop doing it. 00:19:49.220 --> 00:19:55.350 And I think the single most important thing or take away, uh, from the 00:19:55.370 --> 00:20:02.279 forge was actually the ability to push through to not rely on motivation, but 00:20:02.410 --> 00:20:05.789 to, um, to build up this great, um. 00:20:06.440 --> 00:20:13.530 And to keep pushing towards a dream, keep pushing towards something that 00:20:13.530 --> 00:20:18.829 I want to achieve, um, even was the motivation, the, the, the feeling 00:20:18.829 --> 00:20:24.170 of motivation is not there, but just the mental pull towards that thing. 00:20:24.860 --> 00:20:29.830 And, um, so that's 1 thing. 00:20:29.830 --> 00:20:33.790 And the other thing, I think Tracy mentioned the vision thing. 00:20:35.034 --> 00:20:40.705 I never have thought how powerful a aircrafted vision can be because 00:20:40.725 --> 00:20:44.415 all of a sudden it starts filtering everything else out in the world. 00:20:44.965 --> 00:20:46.214 Everything goes quiet. 00:20:46.909 --> 00:20:54.820 And then only what is connected to the vision starts coming out in the daylight. 00:20:54.820 --> 00:21:00.430 And even at the beginning, you have no idea how to bring your vision to life. 00:21:01.139 --> 00:21:06.022 Um, it's just, you know, a sentence initially, but then soon, you 00:21:06.022 --> 00:21:11.865 know, You start forging everything around that sentence, and then it 00:21:12.385 --> 00:21:14.835 starts filling up with content. 00:21:14.925 --> 00:21:21.664 And I think that's a very impactful, um, practice that we had along 00:21:21.695 --> 00:21:25.304 with the, um, personal ethos. 00:21:26.245 --> 00:21:30.945 and then the practice of, well, crafting yours first, but then going back to 00:21:30.945 --> 00:21:36.154 it day after day and then revisiting it and seeing where, where you are 00:21:36.154 --> 00:21:38.284 still not there where you want to be. 00:21:39.534 --> 00:21:44.744 Um, and the place where I never will go back is the guy that I 00:21:44.745 --> 00:21:46.265 mentioned at the very beginning. 00:21:47.595 --> 00:21:53.805 I enjoy finishing things and I've learned that I can actually finish things and 00:21:54.315 --> 00:21:56.035 first gave me the confidence that. 00:21:56.840 --> 00:22:00.800 This is something that I can maintain as long as I want to. 00:22:01.090 --> 00:22:01.450 Chris Williams: Right. 00:22:01.860 --> 00:22:02.180 Right. 00:22:02.230 --> 00:22:05.840 So you mentioned something important there that all the other agile training that 00:22:05.850 --> 00:22:11.500 you may go through focuses on the, the what and the how of doing the framework. 00:22:11.589 --> 00:22:14.609 So how do you pick who's going to go get donuts for the daily standup 00:22:14.609 --> 00:22:15.860 meeting, et cetera, et cetera. 00:22:15.900 --> 00:22:19.150 And I'm being a bit silly, but at the end of the day, it really 00:22:19.150 --> 00:22:23.700 is about how to split a ticket in JIRA, uh, or how to prioritize. 00:22:23.840 --> 00:22:26.610 And those things are useful and you need to know them, but you 00:22:26.610 --> 00:22:27.980 don't need the forge to learn them. 00:22:27.980 --> 00:22:31.010 What you need the forge to do is the other stuff. 00:22:31.310 --> 00:22:33.890 So let's talk about a couple of achievements here for everybody, 00:22:33.890 --> 00:22:35.990 because Tracy mentioned, well, she got a promotion. 00:22:36.590 --> 00:22:40.669 So she went from being, uh, at one level and got promoted to 00:22:40.670 --> 00:22:42.230 managers doing the manager job. 00:22:42.230 --> 00:22:44.159 So she's growing, which is awesome. 00:22:44.730 --> 00:22:46.320 And you also packed up and moved. 00:22:46.320 --> 00:22:49.180 You went from one place that was no longer suiting you. 00:22:49.180 --> 00:22:52.919 And instead of sitting there and accepting it, you went, moved to a different place. 00:22:53.370 --> 00:22:55.339 With Lawrence, you've written four books or more. 00:22:56.085 --> 00:23:01.225 Uh, with Andrus, you left your corporate full time job to start a company where 00:23:01.225 --> 00:23:06.094 you're actually building software that helps people do what we teach in the 00:23:06.094 --> 00:23:10.344 forge, which is how to manage your top priorities, how to get laser focused 00:23:10.345 --> 00:23:14.374 on what matters most today to move the needle towards writing that book 00:23:14.374 --> 00:23:17.245 or getting that promotion or whatever happens to be important to you. 00:23:17.534 --> 00:23:18.935 And Ken, you've done a ton of stuff. 00:23:18.955 --> 00:23:20.385 You've gotten a totally different job. 00:23:20.825 --> 00:23:22.794 You opened up a fishing channel on YouTube. 00:23:23.400 --> 00:23:25.470 Which all of this stuff we'll put links to. 00:23:25.470 --> 00:23:29.400 So be prepared at the end to gimme some links on where to find you in your work 00:23:29.405 --> 00:23:31.170 if you'd like the the public to know. 00:23:33.330 --> 00:23:35.490 The next question was gonna be about what was the most important 00:23:35.490 --> 00:23:38.250 takeaway, but I think many of us have already discussed that. 00:23:38.770 --> 00:23:42.790 The vision one I really like because most people don't know that you don't 00:23:42.790 --> 00:23:47.150 get into a car and just turn the GPS on and expect it to take you somewhere. 00:23:47.150 --> 00:23:52.090 You gotta punch in some coordinates, but having that concrete picture of 00:23:52.090 --> 00:23:54.550 the future allows you to operate. 00:23:54.565 --> 00:24:01.205 We're no longer in the comfortable past mode, which is who was 00:24:01.205 --> 00:24:02.705 I, what did I used to do? 00:24:03.084 --> 00:24:05.784 What were my default reactions to circumstances? 00:24:05.784 --> 00:24:07.675 How did I handle pressure? 00:24:08.195 --> 00:24:10.584 How did I handle conflict or negotiation? 00:24:10.915 --> 00:24:15.405 All of those things that we avoided or didn't do in the past, we did it not 00:24:15.405 --> 00:24:17.205 really knowing why we didn't do it. 00:24:17.915 --> 00:24:20.054 And that's what keeps us comfortable and keeps us safe. 00:24:20.064 --> 00:24:25.624 But the minute you have a different version or vision of the future, it 00:24:25.624 --> 00:24:27.385 forces you to move off of that spot. 00:24:27.895 --> 00:24:31.595 You can no longer be the person that you used to be, afraid of what you were afraid 00:24:31.595 --> 00:24:33.595 of, accepting what you used to accept. 00:24:34.235 --> 00:24:38.830 You now have to change, you have to act differently, but the mind Is this 00:24:38.840 --> 00:24:43.909 supercomputer that just like a GPS automatically knows what to do to 00:24:43.909 --> 00:24:46.169 reroute you to your new destination. 00:24:46.179 --> 00:24:50.699 There is literally almost nothing to do except set that vision. 00:24:50.699 --> 00:24:53.300 So I'm going to ask you a question that you may not be prepared for. 00:24:54.010 --> 00:24:58.309 If you could do a forge version 2, a second round, would you 00:24:58.310 --> 00:25:01.030 come up with a bigger vision than you did the first time around? 00:25:01.030 --> 00:25:02.010 And what might it be? 00:25:03.284 --> 00:25:05.874 Laurens Bonnema: I'm actually going to, I'm going to answer 2 questions. 00:25:05.905 --> 00:25:09.135 The 1 thing I learned in the forge that I've never forgotten. 00:25:09.554 --> 00:25:13.264 Um, there's actually a different answer for that than the 1 I already gave. 00:25:13.554 --> 00:25:16.804 Um, for me, the thing that really sticks is seeing you 00:25:17.214 --> 00:25:19.204 in the moment, taking action. 00:25:19.504 --> 00:25:22.014 So, at some point, we had this question on how to do this. 00:25:22.014 --> 00:25:24.215 You just opened up an Excel sheet, started working. 00:25:24.564 --> 00:25:26.564 And as you were doing that explained. 00:25:27.160 --> 00:25:28.610 This is the way I roll. 00:25:28.610 --> 00:25:30.350 I immediately take action. 00:25:30.650 --> 00:25:33.879 So if that is at all possible, that's one thing I copied. 00:25:34.330 --> 00:25:37.499 And actually last week or night was not last week. 00:25:37.499 --> 00:25:39.790 I think it may have even been yesterday. 00:25:40.420 --> 00:25:43.909 I was on a call and just opened up the the. 00:25:44.580 --> 00:25:48.410 Get up software to enter in a meeting with two people who 00:25:48.410 --> 00:25:50.500 wanted to go on as speakers. 00:25:50.810 --> 00:25:54.579 We were talking about that and I just asked them, so you want to speak? 00:25:54.579 --> 00:25:56.450 Yeah, I'm scheduling you right now. 00:25:56.460 --> 00:25:58.360 What's, what's, what's going to be the title? 00:25:58.650 --> 00:26:01.020 I typed it in after that talk, it was done. 00:26:01.059 --> 00:26:02.260 That's the forge, right? 00:26:02.260 --> 00:26:05.889 So not just knowing what to do and saying, yeah, I'll, I'll get the link 00:26:06.510 --> 00:26:08.200 and then maybe next week we type it in. 00:26:08.200 --> 00:26:08.490 No, 00:26:10.600 --> 00:26:11.320 Urgency. 00:26:11.670 --> 00:26:15.610 Uh, if you can do it now, do it now, because otherwise it'll just be something 00:26:15.610 --> 00:26:16.910 on a list that stresses you out. 00:26:17.210 --> 00:26:21.270 And that for me was a big lesson because I still have lists that stress me out. 00:26:21.669 --> 00:26:22.360 And the forge just. 00:26:23.165 --> 00:26:29.025 But really rework that for me, the thing I would do to answer your actual 00:26:29.025 --> 00:26:33.745 question, the thing I would do in a forge to is indeed make the vision bigger. 00:26:33.824 --> 00:26:36.555 So my vision would now be start my own company. 00:26:36.954 --> 00:26:40.695 Um, really go solo as opposed to being afraid of that. 00:26:40.724 --> 00:26:44.105 Because 1 of the 1st time I joined the forge, that was the thing 00:26:44.215 --> 00:26:45.845 that scared me and it still does. 00:26:46.285 --> 00:26:49.115 But now I would probably work on that. 00:26:49.955 --> 00:26:50.665 Chris Williams: Good for you. 00:26:51.975 --> 00:26:54.655 I consider what I do with all of you research, right? 00:26:54.655 --> 00:26:56.125 I'm learning as much as I'm teaching. 00:26:56.135 --> 00:26:59.424 So one of the things that I've noticed about people is that it's much, much, much 00:26:59.424 --> 00:27:04.804 harder for some people to stay an employee when they realize they're limitless. 00:27:05.585 --> 00:27:07.304 Because the question arises, what am I doing? 00:27:07.314 --> 00:27:08.385 Who am I doing it for? 00:27:08.934 --> 00:27:12.594 And when you ask that question, of course, the answer could be, I could be, 00:27:12.715 --> 00:27:15.625 I could be impacting so many more people. 00:27:16.325 --> 00:27:18.675 And I'm going to ask you in a minute, who do you think the Forge is for? 00:27:19.005 --> 00:27:20.375 But I'm going to pre answer the question. 00:27:20.375 --> 00:27:25.275 I think it's for people who really desire impact, right? 00:27:25.755 --> 00:27:26.764 Because Agile is changing. 00:27:26.764 --> 00:27:27.325 Let's face it. 00:27:28.155 --> 00:27:31.175 It's no longer, you know, we've talked a few times, Lawrence, about 00:27:31.464 --> 00:27:33.135 the state of the education industry. 00:27:33.365 --> 00:27:35.795 We know the Agile conferences are begging for people. 00:27:35.795 --> 00:27:37.615 Like, revenues are down 30%. 00:27:38.225 --> 00:27:39.685 We know the jobs are hard to find. 00:27:39.685 --> 00:27:42.685 And some of the best of the best in our industry are posting on LinkedIn. 00:27:42.695 --> 00:27:45.955 Like, not only am I out of work, but it's getting serious. 00:27:45.985 --> 00:27:46.764 Like, I'm in trouble. 00:27:47.805 --> 00:27:48.945 So the industry is changing. 00:27:48.945 --> 00:27:52.085 We can't just sit there and plug our ears and pretend it's not happening. 00:27:52.085 --> 00:27:54.235 We have to take action and figure out what's next. 00:27:54.235 --> 00:27:56.644 You can't do that without bigger vision. 00:27:57.535 --> 00:27:57.875 Yeah. 00:27:58.164 --> 00:28:01.565 And if we, what we learned in the forge was limited to agile skill, how to split 00:28:01.565 --> 00:28:06.405 tickets in Jira, we'd all be in big, big trouble because we'd have nowhere to go. 00:28:07.065 --> 00:28:09.965 If someone pulls the job title out from under us. 00:28:10.665 --> 00:28:11.455 So thanks for that. 00:28:11.455 --> 00:28:15.185 Share being an entrepreneur, running your own company, very common by product. 00:28:15.629 --> 00:28:19.020 of starting in the forge, even though people like, I don't 00:28:19.020 --> 00:28:19.970 want to run my own business. 00:28:20.260 --> 00:28:23.010 They do find that they want to do something that transcends the role 00:28:23.010 --> 00:28:24.360 of title in the corporate brand. 00:28:24.400 --> 00:28:25.119 So thank you for that. 00:28:25.130 --> 00:28:26.350 Anyone else want to contribute? 00:28:28.220 --> 00:28:31.120 If there was a, if there was a version two, what would you do differently? 00:28:31.120 --> 00:28:31.850 What would you do bigger? 00:28:31.880 --> 00:28:32.260 Go ahead. 00:28:33.640 --> 00:28:35.339 Andras Ivanyi: I'm happy to share on this front. 00:28:35.360 --> 00:28:42.784 So my vision in the first one was to multiply wisdom and I 00:28:42.784 --> 00:28:47.795 experimented a little bit with various implementations of this one. 00:28:47.815 --> 00:28:48.865 Let's put it that way. 00:28:49.445 --> 00:28:52.694 And honestly, I would not make it. 00:28:53.855 --> 00:28:56.654 I don't know how to make it even bigger. 00:28:56.704 --> 00:29:01.885 There is a scaling that is happening within me in the past couple of weeks. 00:29:01.905 --> 00:29:03.264 I started realizing. 00:29:03.820 --> 00:29:08.669 Previously, I was very, very happy with just working with one on one clients, 00:29:08.700 --> 00:29:14.259 um, in the coachings or maybe doing some trainings, but now I feel more 00:29:14.260 --> 00:29:18.880 like, hey, this is actually something that millions of people would need 00:29:18.950 --> 00:29:25.449 to know about and the vision itself still can contain this whole thing. 00:29:25.449 --> 00:29:30.809 So no change is needed on that front and alternative 00:29:30.819 --> 00:29:33.949 phrasing could be maybe I make. 00:29:34.470 --> 00:29:39.649 Of wisdom grow exponentially, but then that's way too long compared to the other 00:29:39.659 --> 00:29:42.060 one, but could be an alternative thing. 00:29:42.159 --> 00:29:49.439 Um, on the other hand, it's it close it by itself without even a fortune to the toe. 00:29:50.145 --> 00:29:50.974 But with a forged 2. 00:29:50.975 --> 00:29:56.905 0, what I would be doing differently, um, is that I would take the vision even 00:29:56.915 --> 00:30:00.165 more serious in the everyday decisions. 00:30:00.465 --> 00:30:05.915 Once I have said that, um, maybe that maybe that's that's the difference. 00:30:06.580 --> 00:30:08.570 Chris Williams: That's a really good one because one thing that was really hard 00:30:08.570 --> 00:30:10.770 for me was forcing people to go big. 00:30:12.020 --> 00:30:14.630 I didn't want to push people and maybe I should have and said, you know, 00:30:14.630 --> 00:30:18.090 that's cool, but it's not big enough because some people started very much 00:30:18.670 --> 00:30:22.670 inside that shell of timidity where they didn't feel like they were entitled 00:30:22.670 --> 00:30:24.360 to ask for or state something big. 00:30:24.900 --> 00:30:25.060 Okay. 00:30:25.060 --> 00:30:27.930 So my next question I have for you is for those people who are out there watching 00:30:27.930 --> 00:30:29.280 who haven't been through the experience. 00:30:29.510 --> 00:30:31.520 Who is the forge for? 00:30:32.765 --> 00:30:36.765 And what do you think it solves for that person? 00:30:37.315 --> 00:30:40.075 So who the forge is for really asking is what kind of person 00:30:40.075 --> 00:30:42.655 would and should be in the forge? 00:30:43.545 --> 00:30:48.415 And what do you think that kind of person struggles with the forge could 00:30:48.415 --> 00:30:50.265 help them solve once and for all? 00:30:51.085 --> 00:30:51.955 Whoever wants to go. 00:30:52.825 --> 00:30:57.535 Ken Goodman: I got, um, the forge is literally for anybody that wants to 00:30:57.565 --> 00:31:01.635 improve him or herself in any aspect of life, whether it's personal, 00:31:01.635 --> 00:31:08.765 professional, um, social, you know, whatever it is, uh, there is 00:31:08.765 --> 00:31:10.945 something in the forge for everybody. 00:31:11.635 --> 00:31:16.755 And I, I mean that quite literally, and while some people maybe with more 00:31:16.755 --> 00:31:22.285 experience in their life, May find parts of the forge somewhat familiar. 00:31:23.675 --> 00:31:29.615 Uh, Chris has a way of, uh, coaching and, and applying the sections of 00:31:29.615 --> 00:31:31.355 the forge that will test anybody. 00:31:32.220 --> 00:31:34.450 What is the line about the forge? 00:31:34.530 --> 00:31:35.910 You harden steel with fire? 00:31:37.520 --> 00:31:42.740 Well, if you want to be hardened, if you want to test yourself, you should sit down 00:31:42.740 --> 00:31:47.910 and have a talk about joining a cohort, because I think any 1 of us here can 00:31:47.910 --> 00:31:51.060 make a promise that you will be tested. 00:31:51.630 --> 00:31:54.950 and push some boundaries that you didn't know that you could exceed. 00:31:55.150 --> 00:32:00.820 And you'll probably end up being surprised at how much you'll improve, the things 00:32:00.820 --> 00:32:05.640 that you'll learn and the capabilities you will become vividly aware that 00:32:05.640 --> 00:32:07.270 you have that you didn't know you had. 00:32:08.050 --> 00:32:08.780 Chris Williams: Thanks, Ken. 00:32:08.890 --> 00:32:13.260 I'm glad you had that experience and that's a great way to frame it. 00:32:13.980 --> 00:32:17.580 You know, I hadn't really thought of it that way, but it's good to know that you 00:32:17.640 --> 00:32:22.020 got that out of the program because so many people just keep on carrying on. 00:32:22.865 --> 00:32:26.865 And they never really run into the limitless me. 00:32:27.665 --> 00:32:29.265 If I could do anything, what would it be? 00:32:29.265 --> 00:32:30.635 Well, it's whatever I'm already doing. 00:32:31.365 --> 00:32:32.135 No, no, no. 00:32:32.675 --> 00:32:33.595 We could go bigger. 00:32:33.595 --> 00:32:35.955 And certain people, I think the people who belong in the forge are the 00:32:35.955 --> 00:32:37.445 people who are called to go bigger. 00:32:38.705 --> 00:32:39.675 That tends to be my opinion. 00:32:39.725 --> 00:32:40.925 Does anyone else have an opinion? 00:32:41.955 --> 00:32:43.825 Laurens Bonnema: Well, I'd like to add to what Ken just said. 00:32:43.925 --> 00:32:52.180 Um, by saying, Yes to that, but also adding, and it's for people who know 00:32:52.190 --> 00:32:57.830 or deeply feel could do better if only, if only they weren't insecure, 00:32:57.830 --> 00:33:02.350 if only they had the time, if only so all the if onlys bring them to the 00:33:02.350 --> 00:33:06.970 forge, um, and they'll be hammered into the, the, the, you, that you always 00:33:06.970 --> 00:33:08.590 wanted to become because it's not like. 00:33:08.925 --> 00:33:10.355 It's not abuse or anything, right? 00:33:10.355 --> 00:33:12.965 So it's, it's, it's you working on you with a lot of help. 00:33:13.495 --> 00:33:18.525 And, um, the, the, the thing that helped me is I'm perennially insecure 00:33:18.545 --> 00:33:20.255 about every single thing that I do. 00:33:20.265 --> 00:33:23.615 The only thing that I'm not insecure about is the shit I know. 00:33:24.075 --> 00:33:26.795 Uh, so I know, I know a lot of things, but. 00:33:27.410 --> 00:33:33.770 Um, I feel really insecure in taking action and that insecurity has, I wouldn't 00:33:33.770 --> 00:33:35.620 say evaporated because it's still there. 00:33:35.620 --> 00:33:36.850 It's, it's still in me. 00:33:36.870 --> 00:33:40.430 So it's not that I've become this wildly different person, but I 00:33:40.430 --> 00:33:41.580 don't let it stop me anymore. 00:33:41.850 --> 00:33:43.300 And that is big. 00:33:43.930 --> 00:33:46.470 Uh, and before you know it, you'll start to dream bigger. 00:33:46.700 --> 00:33:49.670 Um, and that becomes normal and people start to ask. 00:33:50.250 --> 00:33:53.470 How on earth are you getting that amount of stuff done? 00:33:53.890 --> 00:33:58.840 Um, people literally ask, ask questions about that. 00:33:58.840 --> 00:34:00.620 So how are you able to do this? 00:34:01.040 --> 00:34:02.780 I mean, you have a full time job. 00:34:02.790 --> 00:34:04.020 You coach a ton of people. 00:34:04.020 --> 00:34:04.960 You write books. 00:34:04.960 --> 00:34:10.110 You, you apparently also find the time to write proposals for 00:34:10.690 --> 00:34:14.730 presentations and then actually go there and, and you have a family. 00:34:14.925 --> 00:34:16.715 Um, that also takes some of your time. 00:34:16.715 --> 00:34:18.465 So how on earth are you doing this? 00:34:18.865 --> 00:34:23.015 And for me, the answer is, I was always doing a little bit of that, 00:34:25.245 --> 00:34:28.685 not feeling insecure about what you're doing, just speeds up 00:34:28.685 --> 00:34:31.605 things and allows you to do more. 00:34:32.285 --> 00:34:34.585 Chris Williams: And not only do you do more, but you do less of the things 00:34:34.585 --> 00:34:37.245 that don't matter as per Agile, right? 00:34:37.295 --> 00:34:40.155 Do the important things first, do the less important things, maybe 00:34:40.175 --> 00:34:41.615 never, maybe we never do them. 00:34:42.365 --> 00:34:46.475 And we live so much of our lives trying to do things because we think we ought to. 00:34:46.895 --> 00:34:48.415 When someone tells us that we should. 00:34:49.090 --> 00:34:51.880 But at the end of the day, if it doesn't make you happy, if it's not who you truly 00:34:51.880 --> 00:34:54.040 want to be, we shouldn't do them at all. 00:34:54.050 --> 00:34:58.120 So when you really hone and focus your efforts, it changes the quality of 00:34:58.120 --> 00:35:00.880 what you create, which is wonderful. 00:35:00.890 --> 00:35:03.160 So again, I'm really glad that you had that experience Lawrence. 00:35:03.160 --> 00:35:03.970 Thanks for adding that. 00:35:03.970 --> 00:35:05.700 Does anyone else want to throw down? 00:35:05.700 --> 00:35:09.150 We have just a few minutes left and I have like maybe one other question and 00:35:09.150 --> 00:35:13.400 then we'll wrap up with some, where can people find you and some closing thoughts. 00:35:13.750 --> 00:35:14.920 Does anyone else want to throw down? 00:35:15.590 --> 00:35:20.490 Tracy Baer: I remember when I first joined the forge that I was thinking 00:35:20.500 --> 00:35:26.210 that this was going to be all about Agile and I was going to learn some 00:35:26.290 --> 00:35:35.640 new concepts perhaps around Agile but man was I mistaken it it's although it 00:35:35.650 --> 00:35:41.240 had an Agile flair to it at the time I am assuming it's changed since then. 00:35:42.050 --> 00:35:45.820 But it really wasn't about Agile at all. 00:35:46.050 --> 00:35:48.980 It was about all those things that Lawrence and Ken 00:35:48.990 --> 00:35:51.620 mentioned, and then some, right? 00:35:52.110 --> 00:35:59.070 And You know, what I really came to realize that it was more about, 00:35:59.990 --> 00:36:05.910 uh, learning about yourself and seeing yourself as who you really 00:36:05.910 --> 00:36:10.320 truly are and being able to come to the table as who you truly are. 00:36:10.920 --> 00:36:18.320 And it was about leadership to really a lot of focus on, on leadership. 00:36:18.320 --> 00:36:20.080 And what does that really truly mean? 00:36:21.115 --> 00:36:26.595 Be a leader and and all the ins and outs of of that realm. 00:36:27.315 --> 00:36:28.035 Chris Williams: Thank you, Tracy. 00:36:28.035 --> 00:36:29.065 That was a great comment. 00:36:29.945 --> 00:36:30.975 Let's just wrap it up. 00:36:30.975 --> 00:36:32.275 We got about a few minutes left. 00:36:33.085 --> 00:36:36.135 If you had to say, because all of you have stayed connected, like you were 00:36:36.135 --> 00:36:39.515 the first group of people I wanted to talk to, because you naturally chime 00:36:40.075 --> 00:36:45.145 in, join in, pop up, you know, you show up around the forge and what we 00:36:45.145 --> 00:36:49.675 call the alumni is called the sanctuary and you guys are popping in every 00:36:49.675 --> 00:36:53.545 once in a while or you're coaching new cohorts or you're, you know, you're 00:36:53.555 --> 00:36:55.335 helping me with my marketing efforts. 00:36:55.635 --> 00:36:59.185 What I've always found is that the people who belong here already know 00:36:59.275 --> 00:37:02.805 the more I try to drag somebody into the forge, the less it works. 00:37:04.300 --> 00:37:08.010 The looser the fit, but people who are like, I think I want this. 00:37:08.040 --> 00:37:09.190 This is speaking to me. 00:37:09.190 --> 00:37:12.300 I've this, the things I'm hearing today are the things that I'm curious 00:37:12.300 --> 00:37:13.770 about, want to know more about. 00:37:14.490 --> 00:37:17.930 And if that's you, you probably have a seat here already. 00:37:19.430 --> 00:37:20.340 That's what I've learned. 00:37:20.960 --> 00:37:24.350 But I'd love to know from you, if we could just be succinct, can you think 00:37:24.350 --> 00:37:29.380 of one thing that the forge has gotten you raise promotion, better family 00:37:29.380 --> 00:37:31.530 life, personal life, more confidence? 00:37:31.530 --> 00:37:32.370 I don't care what it is. 00:37:32.570 --> 00:37:35.020 What was the biggest thing that the forge got you? 00:37:35.410 --> 00:37:35.960 And then. 00:37:36.350 --> 00:37:40.670 For me, going forward, what was something you, what is something you would love 00:37:40.670 --> 00:37:45.150 to see added or improved in the forge to make it even better for future cohorts? 00:37:45.480 --> 00:37:46.660 And again, anyone can answer. 00:37:47.470 --> 00:37:53.590 Ken Goodman: Um, for me, it's, uh, it's the calm up here. 00:37:54.950 --> 00:37:58.940 You know, I, I coach a lot of men of all ages. 00:37:59.545 --> 00:38:02.835 And the 1 thing I found is that most men have a storm that's 00:38:02.845 --> 00:38:09.975 constantly brewing inside and we all navigate it differently for me. 00:38:09.975 --> 00:38:14.095 Personally, my, my stormy seas have gotten a lot calmer. 00:38:14.715 --> 00:38:18.055 Uh, since I went through the forge and, um. 00:38:19.905 --> 00:38:23.975 So, for me, if I were to recommend an improvement or change to 00:38:23.975 --> 00:38:28.155 the forge, it would be to focus or have more content on those. 00:38:30.410 --> 00:38:37.000 Soft skills, especially on self improvement and challenging oneself, uh, 00:38:37.320 --> 00:38:41.310 in any way possible, because those are the areas that I have benefited from the most. 00:38:42.430 --> 00:38:46.810 And I think they provide a solid foundation to set somebody up for 00:38:46.810 --> 00:38:51.240 greater success in doing anything else is once you have a greater control 00:38:51.240 --> 00:38:52.520 over your mind, heart, and soul. 00:38:53.560 --> 00:38:54.180 Chris Williams: Well said. 00:38:54.200 --> 00:38:59.260 And couldn't we use more of that in North America in politics and culture and work? 00:38:59.260 --> 00:39:01.470 I can't speak for anywhere else, but certainly here, it feels 00:39:01.470 --> 00:39:03.660 like we need that more than ever. 00:39:03.660 --> 00:39:06.670 And we start every session with just let's stop and breathe for a minute. 00:39:07.365 --> 00:39:11.605 Let's have some quiet and some calm and some singularity of focus. 00:39:11.795 --> 00:39:12.685 Thank you for that, Ken. 00:39:12.695 --> 00:39:13.675 Anyone else want to add? 00:39:13.685 --> 00:39:15.175 What is the forge giving you? 00:39:15.175 --> 00:39:17.645 What's one big thing that the forge got for you? 00:39:18.055 --> 00:39:21.035 And what might you, what do you think might improve it in the future? 00:39:24.145 --> 00:39:26.095 Laurens Bonnema: I'd like to add to Ken's statement. 00:39:26.525 --> 00:39:30.705 I coach, I coach a lot of women and they have the same thing. 00:39:31.075 --> 00:39:36.380 Um, so I think the human condition in general is, um, Is what we're 00:39:36.380 --> 00:39:41.620 talking about, and it is, it helps to truly get focus for me. 00:39:41.620 --> 00:39:47.210 The big thing in the forge is, um, a better sense of self 00:39:47.260 --> 00:39:51.080 assuredness and indeed more calm. 00:39:51.460 --> 00:39:52.640 Uh, the one thing I think. 00:39:52.705 --> 00:39:57.255 think that the forge could do to improve even further, not copy again, 00:39:57.685 --> 00:40:01.615 because I thought that was an excellent suggestion, um, is maybe find a way to 00:40:01.615 --> 00:40:04.165 strengthen the, the swim buddy connection. 00:40:04.535 --> 00:40:09.715 Uh, so that it's no longer a question or a happenstance thing at the end that 00:40:09.765 --> 00:40:14.115 could happen that you stay in touch like forever, like Tracy and I do. 00:40:14.415 --> 00:40:15.155 Um, but. 00:40:15.600 --> 00:40:18.870 That, that becomes really part of the experience. 00:40:18.870 --> 00:40:23.470 And I know that that was the intent and it's, it's always the intent, but 00:40:23.470 --> 00:40:25.270 somehow it doesn't magically happen. 00:40:25.270 --> 00:40:29.120 So maybe some experiments to, to run, to try and get there. 00:40:29.290 --> 00:40:30.810 Chris Williams: That is a great statement though. 00:40:31.890 --> 00:40:37.300 Laurens Bonnema: My succinct statement would be you've only one life and come 00:40:37.300 --> 00:40:38.890 to the forge to learn how to live it. 00:40:39.700 --> 00:40:41.660 Chris Williams: Wow, dude, that's powerful. 00:40:41.670 --> 00:40:42.330 Thank you for that. 00:40:42.395 --> 00:40:43.315 I appreciate it. 00:40:43.325 --> 00:40:44.865 Anyone else want to chime in? 00:40:45.095 --> 00:40:46.075 What was your big takeaway? 00:40:46.095 --> 00:40:49.355 The bit, the thing the forge gave you that's most important to you and 00:40:49.355 --> 00:40:51.005 what might improve it in the future? 00:40:51.045 --> 00:40:51.505 Anyone else? 00:40:52.590 --> 00:40:58.130 Andras Ivanyi: Yeah, to, to also add my two cents, uh, self confidence. 00:40:58.130 --> 00:40:58.880 Definitely. 00:40:59.100 --> 00:41:03.960 Um, I think it was also mentioned a couple of times, uh, already, but, uh, 00:41:04.010 --> 00:41:10.300 that's, I think the single most important thing that right now I started believing 00:41:10.300 --> 00:41:16.010 in myself because I started seeing that I, indeed, this limitlessness thing 00:41:16.050 --> 00:41:20.905 that, that, you know, Was mentioned that it's there and, uh, and that 00:41:20.925 --> 00:41:24.335 it is, uh, attainable, achievable. 00:41:24.435 --> 00:41:26.265 Not sure what's the right word. 00:41:26.915 --> 00:41:33.205 Um, and, um, how to further tweak it. 00:41:34.870 --> 00:41:41.510 I think there is a pattern amongst what all of us are saying, and this 00:41:41.510 --> 00:41:43.830 could be even taken further down. 00:41:44.030 --> 00:41:49.840 Uh, and the area which goes in the direction of, uh, creates, uh, 00:41:50.010 --> 00:41:56.100 day in day out progress, um, deep focus, deep work, uh, flow, all 00:41:56.110 --> 00:41:59.940 these kind of topics could be even extended a little bit further down. 00:42:01.240 --> 00:42:07.420 Um, because this both as a leader, but also as an individual contributor 00:42:07.440 --> 00:42:13.250 as a business owner, as anyone, these are the essential skills that can, uh, 00:42:13.260 --> 00:42:15.510 move the can and will move the needle. 00:42:15.930 --> 00:42:21.470 And I think you are mentioning it many, many times throughout the forge that. 00:42:21.940 --> 00:42:26.690 Yeah, reading the books is great, but not applying the knowledge. 00:42:26.790 --> 00:42:27.200 We are. 00:42:27.900 --> 00:42:29.640 Entirely worthless in the end. 00:42:30.295 --> 00:42:38.035 And just reinforcing this, uh, in people and showing, uh, more and more practices, 00:42:38.465 --> 00:42:40.665 uh, would go even further, I think. 00:42:41.635 --> 00:42:42.575 Chris Williams: Thank you for that, Andrews. 00:42:42.575 --> 00:42:43.725 Tracy, do you want to throw down? 00:42:44.665 --> 00:42:48.075 Tracy Baer: Yeah, I could just add one word and I think it's already been 00:42:48.095 --> 00:42:54.255 mentioned confidence, confidence in myself, confidence in my ability to 00:42:54.255 --> 00:42:57.075 ask for what I want, what I deserve. 00:42:57.685 --> 00:42:58.435 Chris Williams: Very well said. 00:42:58.445 --> 00:42:59.205 Thank you, Tracy. 00:42:59.345 --> 00:43:00.595 One last round, guys. 00:43:00.595 --> 00:43:02.775 I'm so grateful for you being part of this today. 00:43:02.795 --> 00:43:04.535 Thank you for taking time to do it. 00:43:04.575 --> 00:43:07.455 Thank you again for being part of the forge and for trusting me 00:43:07.455 --> 00:43:09.115 with your ongoing development. 00:43:09.485 --> 00:43:12.565 Thank you for staying connected and making this community what it is. 00:43:12.990 --> 00:43:16.300 I really appreciate that and I hope this has been helpful for people who've been 00:43:16.300 --> 00:43:20.250 thinking about the forge or thinking about what they need as a next step in their, 00:43:20.300 --> 00:43:23.100 in their career or personal development. 00:43:23.600 --> 00:43:25.030 But where can they find you? 00:43:25.390 --> 00:43:29.400 Some of the things that you have done or have built since the forge or because 00:43:29.400 --> 00:43:31.150 of the forge, where can people find you? 00:43:31.420 --> 00:43:33.950 Give us your online, your links, your URLs, and I'll put them 00:43:33.950 --> 00:43:35.000 in the show notes as well. 00:43:35.655 --> 00:43:36.035 Um, 00:43:36.075 --> 00:43:37.635 Laurens Bonnema: well, for me, that's really simple. 00:43:37.645 --> 00:43:38.575 Find me on LinkedIn. 00:43:38.615 --> 00:43:39.975 That's where I do most of the stuff. 00:43:40.275 --> 00:43:43.945 Um, and of course you can also find me at bonama. 00:43:43.995 --> 00:43:47.815 inc with a K at the end for the drawings that I create. 00:43:47.855 --> 00:43:50.385 Um, and that's actually something that's taken off now. 00:43:50.745 --> 00:43:52.625 Uh, and also thanks to the forge. 00:43:53.085 --> 00:43:53.685 Chris Williams: Thank you, Lawrence. 00:43:53.685 --> 00:43:54.405 What about you, Ken? 00:43:54.645 --> 00:43:56.725 Ken Goodman: My social media handles pretty much the 00:43:56.745 --> 00:43:59.635 agile angler or agile angler. 00:43:59.965 --> 00:44:03.610 And, uh, you can reach me at agileangler at gmail. 00:44:03.610 --> 00:44:03.990 com. 00:44:04.700 --> 00:44:05.690 Chris Williams: Thank you very much, Ken. 00:44:05.730 --> 00:44:06.530 Andrus, how about you? 00:44:06.530 --> 00:44:07.630 Where can people find you? 00:44:08.610 --> 00:44:13.469 Andras Ivanyi: Um, primarily also LinkedIn and also Toad. 00:44:13.470 --> 00:44:18.840 works, um, which is also a small goal setting app, just 00:44:18.840 --> 00:44:20.560 one goal at a time for a day. 00:44:20.990 --> 00:44:24.790 And, uh, there they can also try it out as well. 00:44:26.230 --> 00:44:26.650 Chris Williams: Awesome. 00:44:26.670 --> 00:44:28.770 Tracy, is there anywhere that people can find you? 00:44:30.205 --> 00:44:30.385 Tracy Baer: Yeah. 00:44:30.685 --> 00:44:31.745 Uh, just LinkedIn. 00:44:32.175 --> 00:44:35.515 I'm not as fancy as these other folks, their own businesses and 00:44:35.655 --> 00:44:39.255 corporations, but uh, yeah, you can, you can find me on LinkedIn. 00:44:40.125 --> 00:44:40.685 Chris Williams: Friends. 00:44:40.725 --> 00:44:41.325 Thank you. 00:44:41.385 --> 00:44:45.595 Not only for doing this with me today, but for inspiring me for being the 00:44:45.595 --> 00:44:47.375 reason why I do what I do every day. 00:44:47.375 --> 00:44:51.165 The reason I get up and get out of bed is to meet people like you and make 00:44:51.165 --> 00:44:54.025 a difference one person at a time. 00:44:54.635 --> 00:44:56.125 But thank you for helping me build this. 00:44:56.145 --> 00:45:00.500 It wouldn't be here Without you and I'm eternally grateful for each one 00:45:00.500 --> 00:45:04.170 of you and I'm so happy to have you on the show today Thanks so much friends. 00:45:04.630 --> 00:45:05.160 Laurens Bonnema: Thanks Chris. 00:45:05.190 --> 00:45:05.840 Thank you. 00:45:06.000 --> 00:45:07.740 Thanks for being a badass. 00:45:07.760 --> 00:45:09.470 Chris Williams: No problem We'll catch you the next episode 00:45:09.470 --> 00:45:11.550 everybody until then stay badass