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You're listening to the Ayn Rand Institute Live

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podcast series.

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Good morning. Thanks for coming.

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So it seemed like the world is going

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to hell.

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If you think just here in Europe that

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the war has broken out in Europe,

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people did not expect that. There's Israel is

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at war.

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There's a growing authoritarianism

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through the world. China is warmongering.

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If you look at the U. S, it's

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in political

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disarray. It's hard to

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project and kind of believe

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how bad the 2 main political parties now

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in the U. S. Are.

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You have religion

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having a resurgence

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across the world, the crusading

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religions, you see that in the Middle East,

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you see that more and more in the

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U. S.

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That

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abortion rights were stricken

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I mean, basically, stricken from the constitution, that

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the constitution

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was deemed does not protect the right to

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an abortion,

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that's a recent development in the U. S.

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And it's part of what a crusading

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religion looks like. I don't think you can

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understand what is happening in the U. S.

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Without understanding

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the religious backing of it. So and

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there's

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is an authoritarianism,

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there is a tribalism,

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there is an increase

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in

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governments exerting control

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over individuals I think

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throughout the world.

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It's on the rise.

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Now if this is your interest

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in ideas, in Ayn Rand's ideas, in objectivism,

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that the world's going to hell and it's

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important

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to kind of expose

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the evil and to fight the evil.

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I can certainly understand

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that as a motivation of interest in Ayn

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Rand's ideas. But I don't think it should

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be one's primary

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motivation. It should not be what how one

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thinks about the ideas, the philosophy

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and what it's about. It's at most,

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a secondary

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issue. It's an important issue, but it's a

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secondary

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issue. And part of what I want to

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emphasize today

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and what the talk really is about

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is that objectivism is a positive

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philosophy and it's about having a positive

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orientation.

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And I, one I don't even think it's

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true that the world is going to hell.

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Politically,

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it's in I think dire straits and there

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is a real issue of will the world

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kind of broadly descend

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into more authoritarianism.

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But from a different aspect,

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life has never been as good as it

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is now today on the earth. And if

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you look at just the the worldwide, the

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population

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in the 1,000,000,000 and billions, it's never been

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higher. Standard of living,

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kind of average standard of living has never

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been higher. And if you look across the

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world of the the regions and the countries

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that have that you can think of as

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they've been touched by the enlightenment

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ideas and enlightenment

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ideals,

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Those places across the globe are doing well.

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I mean, the fact that we could just

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gather here from all over the place. I

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mean, if if you,

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met a lot of people yesterday, you saw

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there are people from all over

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the globe

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that we could gather here so easily. I

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mean, some of us probably had travel delays

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and travel problems, but that you can just

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navigate the globe like that and come to

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a conference like this. I mean, you can

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do this 200 years ago. So the it

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the it might seem like the world is

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descending into hell, but if you take, I

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think, a real

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perspective on it and broader than politics,

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it's not true.

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It's not true and

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the

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the I think the orientation

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to a philosophy and particularly to objectivism, I've

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said it's to the positive.

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And it should be the world is good

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but it could be way better.

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It could be way better than what it

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is

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and that's what objectivism

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is about. That's what Ayn Rand's ideas are

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about. Who here has read either The Fountainhead

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or Atlas Shrugged or both?

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Yeah. Okay. Virtually everybody.

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And those novels and the reason I think

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they're bestseller

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novels and they remain

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best selling novels

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today, I mean, 50 plus years after their

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publication,

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is that what they offer is a vision

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of the positive.

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They offer a vision of what life could

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be and that your life could be better

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than what it is and then more broadly

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speaking that life on the globe or on

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the planet

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could be way better than what it is.

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And so the it's the

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objectivism is not about fighting evil though it

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is from a secondary consequence that like if

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you have a vision

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of the good and of what is worth

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striving for in life, then you are going

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to as a consequence have a view of

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well this

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is undermines that, this is destructive to that

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positive vision and to that positive

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goal, but it's secondary

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in that sense. So what objectivism is about

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and what it should do for you

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is it gives you all kinds of ideas

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and

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a value orientation

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towards what your life could become.

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So I mean, just to take some of

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the random,

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kind of a random list of things from

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the objectivist ideas and from Ayn Rand's philosophy.

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A perspective on selfishness

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that you should take your own life seriously

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and that you wanna build something for your

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life, that you should be about the pursuit

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of your own happiness and that that's a

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demanding responsibility.

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It's not easy to achieve your own happiness

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but that you can do it and you

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can do it if you set out to

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have the right kinds of values, the right

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kinds of virtues, the right kind of orientation

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towards life. So you get a whole list

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of virtues in objectivism from independence

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to pride

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to,

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to justice to productiveness,

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a vision for what you could build within

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your own character

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and within your own soul.

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You got a vision of that self esteem

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is possible in life and that it's important

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and possible in life and that you have

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to have pride

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in order to achieve self esteem. That pride

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is not the

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worst of sins, it's the height of virtue

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to take your own life, your moral character,

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seriously and to take seriously what you want

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to become in life and then to have

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the ambition

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to really pursue it, to really try to

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achieve it. And you could go at the

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the

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Ayn Rand's ideas, it should give you a

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new conception of what logic and thinking and

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rationality

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and objectivity is. It should give you a

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new perspective

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on atheism,

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on religion

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that part of the perspective you get on

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religion is that there's a sense in which

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Ayn Rand is anti religion, but there's a

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sense in which she is not. There's a

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sense in which she understands religion was a

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primitive form of philosophy.

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It tried to offer something of a vision

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of what you can achieve.

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What was defective about it is that vision

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is wrong and in some ways

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it's perverse.

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But that that that's what it's trying to

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do is not a fault. It's a virtue

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of what religion is but what a philosophy

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is is doing that. It has the same

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orientation

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as a religion to offer a world view

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but to offer a positive world view that

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you can defend, that you have reasons for,

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that you have evidence for

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and that that's what you are then trying

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to achieve.

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So objectivism,

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it's radically

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and

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I wanna really stress this because there's a

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way in which given the world today, one

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can think what it is, it's about fighting

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the evils that exist in the world. Objectivism

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is a radically positive

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philosophy. It offers a vision for what you

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can become

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in life, what you want to strive for

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and why.

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And as a consequence,

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I think you have an orientation towards the

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world that you want to see these ideas

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spread.

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You want to see people sharing these ideas,

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but but it should really come first from

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your own perspective that they've helped me

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live, they've helped me achieve values, they've helped

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me achieve my own happiness

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and it has that has to be real

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to you that that's that's what the ideas

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have done, this is what the philosophy has

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done for me and then it's a as

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a natural consequence, you would want to see

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that philosophy, those ideas

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shared by other people and again from the

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perspective that

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as good as the world is today, it

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could be even better and I think part

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of what

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of thinking about objectivism and one's orientation towards

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it,

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I I wanna stress it could be way

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better. The world could be way better than

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it is even though it's really good right

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now in essence in in the quality of

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life that we enjoy. I'll take I'll take

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to

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that

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that this orientation of it the philosophy has

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helped my life and so it would help

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other people in the world and particularly,

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the orientation should be, it will help other

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people who are trying to do something good

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in the world, who are trying to achieve

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values, who are trying to achieve

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positives. And I'll take you the two things

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of the way that I hold this. They're,

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they're not these are two examples, so they

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don't have to be the way that you

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hold it. But the kind of orientation

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to the philosophy and to the ideas that

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I think is important. 1 I hold is

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Bill Gates. So from early on, I admired

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Bill Gates and Microsoft for what he was

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able to build for, I mean I was

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using Microsoft products but the the scale at

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which Microsoft

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operated

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that we have now like everyone networked

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through computers and so on, that is a

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00:10:15,889 --> 00:10:17,764
significant part and achievement

281
00:10:18,065 --> 00:10:20,084
of Microsoft and of Bill Gates

282
00:10:20,464 --> 00:10:23,105
and he was damned for and particularly when

283
00:10:23,105 --> 00:10:24,945
he became so successful and then he was

284
00:10:24,945 --> 00:10:27,139
the richest man in the world, he was

285
00:10:27,139 --> 00:10:28,200
really criticized

286
00:10:28,740 --> 00:10:31,700
and damned for that achievement. I mean, the

287
00:10:31,779 --> 00:10:33,460
I remember one, I think this was in

288
00:10:33,460 --> 00:10:36,235
Seattle where there was protest against globalization

289
00:10:36,774 --> 00:10:38,294
where he gets a he got a tie

290
00:10:38,294 --> 00:10:40,615
slammed in his face from protesters as though

291
00:10:40,615 --> 00:10:43,100
like he's the height of evil and he

292
00:10:43,100 --> 00:10:45,980
achieved something really good and in a better

293
00:10:45,980 --> 00:10:48,399
culture, that in a culture that had more

294
00:10:48,539 --> 00:10:49,039
of

295
00:10:49,465 --> 00:10:52,044
Ayn Rand's ideas and of objectivist ideas

296
00:10:52,504 --> 00:10:55,384
in the culture that that people understood and

297
00:10:55,384 --> 00:10:57,625
shared these ideas, Bill Gates would have been

298
00:10:57,625 --> 00:10:59,129
viewed as the,

299
00:10:59,670 --> 00:11:01,610
achiever and producer and hero

300
00:11:01,990 --> 00:11:03,910
that he was. And if you look at

301
00:11:03,910 --> 00:11:04,809
his career,

302
00:11:06,074 --> 00:11:08,554
that he went into philanthropy, I view as,

303
00:11:08,554 --> 00:11:10,475
like, that's a loss to me. It's a

304
00:11:10,475 --> 00:11:12,394
loss to my life that he if he

305
00:11:12,394 --> 00:11:14,654
could've still been at Microsoft building

306
00:11:15,110 --> 00:11:18,490
and part of the leaders in tech, the

307
00:11:18,709 --> 00:11:21,110
world in my life, my own personal life

308
00:11:21,110 --> 00:11:23,355
would be better if that had happened. But

309
00:11:23,355 --> 00:11:24,955
then if you look at what happened with

310
00:11:24,955 --> 00:11:26,975
him, he's a a

311
00:11:27,274 --> 00:11:28,415
fairly intellectual

312
00:11:28,875 --> 00:11:30,174
widely read person

313
00:11:30,554 --> 00:11:31,054
and

314
00:11:31,529 --> 00:11:34,090
you can see him questioning like, is the

315
00:11:34,090 --> 00:11:36,590
world right about me? Is it is is

316
00:11:36,730 --> 00:11:38,809
is what I'm doing? Is it wrong? Should

317
00:11:38,809 --> 00:11:40,875
I feel guilty about it? Or maybe if

318
00:11:40,875 --> 00:11:43,274
it's not wrong, it's certainly not the height

319
00:11:43,274 --> 00:11:43,855
of virtue.

320
00:11:44,394 --> 00:11:46,475
And if I went into philanthropy and so

321
00:11:46,475 --> 00:11:48,394
on and gave up my fortune, gave up

322
00:11:48,394 --> 00:11:49,055
my business,

323
00:11:49,769 --> 00:11:51,610
Well, maybe that would make it that that

324
00:11:51,610 --> 00:11:53,309
I'm now doing something better.

325
00:11:53,769 --> 00:11:56,090
And in a in a world with better

326
00:11:56,090 --> 00:11:56,590
ideas,

327
00:11:57,074 --> 00:11:59,074
it would be he wouldn't really be thinking

328
00:11:59,074 --> 00:12:00,434
that or if he were thinking that, there

329
00:12:00,434 --> 00:12:02,115
would be some people telling him, no, you

330
00:12:02,115 --> 00:12:03,634
re all wrong to think that. It s

331
00:12:03,634 --> 00:12:05,209
not that what makes you good is that

332
00:12:05,209 --> 00:12:06,809
you give your money away. What made you

333
00:12:06,809 --> 00:12:08,970
good is that you achieved it, and it

334
00:12:08,970 --> 00:12:11,450
was an enormous achievement. You should feel proud

335
00:12:11,450 --> 00:12:13,245
of it and we as a culture should

336
00:12:13,245 --> 00:12:16,205
recognize that achievement, not try to denigrate it,

337
00:12:16,205 --> 00:12:18,225
criticize it, tear you down.

338
00:12:19,004 --> 00:12:21,024
And that's a sense like it's an enormous

339
00:12:21,085 --> 00:12:21,585
achievement

340
00:12:21,980 --> 00:12:24,620
that, that he accomplished and more widely the

341
00:12:24,620 --> 00:12:25,839
whole tech industry

342
00:12:26,220 --> 00:12:26,720
accomplished.

343
00:12:27,100 --> 00:12:29,259
And that's a positive it's added to our

344
00:12:29,259 --> 00:12:32,075
lives, but it could be so much better

345
00:12:32,455 --> 00:12:35,514
if it existed in a culture that really

346
00:12:35,575 --> 00:12:36,075
valued

347
00:12:36,535 --> 00:12:39,110
these people and valued them from a moral

348
00:12:39,110 --> 00:12:41,829
perspective that what you're doing is good. It's

349
00:12:41,829 --> 00:12:42,809
morally good.

350
00:12:43,750 --> 00:12:46,230
So that's one example in terms of just

351
00:12:46,230 --> 00:12:46,730
that

352
00:12:47,269 --> 00:12:49,215
that life could be so much better.

353
00:12:49,674 --> 00:12:52,235
The other I hope is healthcare. I find

354
00:12:52,235 --> 00:12:54,894
healthcare so the people in health, the doctors,

355
00:12:54,955 --> 00:12:57,000
the nurses have a real dedication

356
00:12:57,779 --> 00:12:58,759
to their profession,

357
00:12:59,220 --> 00:13:00,519
to fighting disease,

358
00:13:00,899 --> 00:13:02,200
to achieving health,

359
00:13:03,144 --> 00:13:06,285
people having a longer lives, better quality lives,

360
00:13:06,504 --> 00:13:08,264
being able to to do all kinds of

361
00:13:08,264 --> 00:13:10,764
things into old age. They have a positive

362
00:13:10,825 --> 00:13:11,325
orientation.

363
00:13:12,070 --> 00:13:13,450
They're so crippled

364
00:13:13,990 --> 00:13:17,750
by the whole social political system that exists

365
00:13:17,750 --> 00:13:20,250
around health care. It it's

366
00:13:20,985 --> 00:13:21,485
again,

367
00:13:21,785 --> 00:13:24,764
it that you go into a doctor's office,

368
00:13:25,705 --> 00:13:27,804
they have no idea how much the services

369
00:13:28,024 --> 00:13:28,524
cost,

370
00:13:28,959 --> 00:13:30,720
You have no idea how much the services

371
00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:32,559
cost. You don't know what they're going what

372
00:13:32,559 --> 00:13:34,399
you're gonna pay. Now in in more,

373
00:13:35,039 --> 00:13:37,039
kind of government run system as well as

374
00:13:37,039 --> 00:13:38,259
the government, it's free

375
00:13:38,764 --> 00:13:40,924
is the way it's conceptualized because the government

376
00:13:40,924 --> 00:13:43,004
pays for it. Nobody has any idea what

377
00:13:43,004 --> 00:13:45,084
they're paying for for the hurricane. Is this

378
00:13:45,084 --> 00:13:47,029
worth it? Should you spend your money in

379
00:13:47,029 --> 00:13:48,950
a different kind of way? In the US,

380
00:13:48,950 --> 00:13:52,309
that's nominally more free. It's their sort of

381
00:13:52,309 --> 00:13:54,710
prices but you go into a doctor's office,

382
00:13:54,710 --> 00:13:56,394
you can ask them, I mean you can

383
00:13:56,394 --> 00:13:58,235
ask them, how much is this gonna cost?

384
00:13:58,235 --> 00:13:59,434
I don't know, we have to run it

385
00:13:59,434 --> 00:14:01,294
through your insurance, we will see what happens,

386
00:14:01,434 --> 00:14:03,379
and you get a statement 2 months later

387
00:14:03,379 --> 00:14:05,139
and sometimes if the cost is 0 and

388
00:14:05,139 --> 00:14:06,579
then like how can the cost be 0

389
00:14:06,579 --> 00:14:09,379
for this? Sometimes it's $500 for a minor

390
00:14:09,379 --> 00:14:09,879
procedure

391
00:14:10,179 --> 00:14:12,704
and it's you've got no no anybody in

392
00:14:12,704 --> 00:14:15,284
the system has no clue what is happening

393
00:14:15,424 --> 00:14:17,985
in terms of prices. And yet prices are

394
00:14:17,985 --> 00:14:20,964
the way we figure out, what's worth producing

395
00:14:21,470 --> 00:14:22,529
and what is it.

396
00:14:23,149 --> 00:14:24,909
And if you had in the in the

397
00:14:24,909 --> 00:14:26,909
health care system that it was governed by

398
00:14:26,909 --> 00:14:27,409
prices,

399
00:14:27,870 --> 00:14:30,370
it would it would be so much more

400
00:14:30,429 --> 00:14:30,929
creative,

401
00:14:31,615 --> 00:14:32,115
productive,

402
00:14:33,134 --> 00:14:34,914
and our I mean, just

403
00:14:35,294 --> 00:14:38,095
thinking of if healthcare had been free for

404
00:14:38,095 --> 00:14:39,475
the last 40 years,

405
00:14:40,230 --> 00:14:42,629
how much progress there would have been in

406
00:14:42,629 --> 00:14:45,110
medicine and as a result, like what kinds

407
00:14:45,110 --> 00:14:46,884
of diseases would have been

408
00:14:47,365 --> 00:14:50,085
either either those treatments that in effect are

409
00:14:50,085 --> 00:14:52,264
like a cure or there would be cures.

410
00:14:52,965 --> 00:14:55,500
It's it's it it's hard. I think it

411
00:14:55,500 --> 00:14:58,139
would it would boggle our minds if you

412
00:14:58,139 --> 00:15:00,540
could run an experiment and go back 40

413
00:15:00,540 --> 00:15:01,980
years, like you had a time machine 40

414
00:15:01,980 --> 00:15:03,774
years and you had free health care and

415
00:15:03,774 --> 00:15:05,695
what the state of health care would be

416
00:15:05,695 --> 00:15:08,894
today versus what it actually is and again,

417
00:15:08,894 --> 00:15:12,039
it's good. It it's, I mean, it's compared

418
00:15:12,039 --> 00:15:13,639
to a 150 years ago, I mean, who

419
00:15:13,639 --> 00:15:15,720
would wanna go to a doctor a 150

420
00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:16,379
years ago?

421
00:15:16,759 --> 00:15:18,200
If you could go to a doctor with

422
00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:21,445
their their technology and state of knowledge today,

423
00:15:21,504 --> 00:15:23,284
but it could be so much better.

424
00:15:23,664 --> 00:15:26,325
And so the the whole orientation

425
00:15:26,784 --> 00:15:28,490
I think for towards

426
00:15:29,190 --> 00:15:31,610
ideas and particularly towards objectivism

427
00:15:32,309 --> 00:15:36,004
is it's about building a better future. It's

428
00:15:36,004 --> 00:15:38,644
not about well, we're about to go off

429
00:15:38,644 --> 00:15:40,884
a cliff, so we need to do something,

430
00:15:40,884 --> 00:15:43,125
but if that weren't happening, then well, you

431
00:15:43,125 --> 00:15:45,470
don't have to be concerned with ideas, with

432
00:15:45,470 --> 00:15:45,970
philosophy,

433
00:15:46,509 --> 00:15:49,149
with moral values. But the whole reason to

434
00:15:49,149 --> 00:15:51,389
be concerned with them is that they could

435
00:15:51,389 --> 00:15:53,250
make life so much better

436
00:15:53,595 --> 00:15:55,294
than what actually exists.

437
00:15:56,794 --> 00:15:59,595
And that that's sort of the lead in

438
00:15:59,595 --> 00:16:02,815
to what is my basic topic which is

439
00:16:03,179 --> 00:16:03,339
that

440
00:16:04,059 --> 00:16:06,299
so I'm speaking here from my work at

441
00:16:06,299 --> 00:16:09,279
ARI, the Ayn Rand Institute as Niko said,

442
00:16:10,220 --> 00:16:11,519
and our mission

443
00:16:12,144 --> 00:16:13,285
is an educational

444
00:16:13,985 --> 00:16:16,465
mission. And one way to think about it

445
00:16:16,465 --> 00:16:18,304
of what we're trying to do and then

446
00:16:18,304 --> 00:16:20,065
I wanna talk a little bit about why

447
00:16:20,065 --> 00:16:22,290
we're trying to do this. What we're trying

448
00:16:22,290 --> 00:16:24,549
to do is get more objectivist

449
00:16:25,250 --> 00:16:26,149
and more objectivist

450
00:16:26,690 --> 00:16:28,309
intellectuals. We're interested

451
00:16:28,690 --> 00:16:30,470
in these ideas spreading

452
00:16:31,144 --> 00:16:32,205
spreading through

453
00:16:32,585 --> 00:16:33,404
the world

454
00:16:33,705 --> 00:16:36,904
and we think and this conference is evidence

455
00:16:36,904 --> 00:16:39,000
of that of of it as the world.

456
00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:40,700
So this is a global

457
00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:43,399
the the ideas are not restricted to the

458
00:16:43,399 --> 00:16:46,245
US. It's a philosophy. It pertains to any

459
00:16:46,565 --> 00:16:48,804
individual as an individual wherever you live in

460
00:16:48,804 --> 00:16:51,284
whatever political system in which you live. So

461
00:16:51,284 --> 00:16:52,825
we're trying to the ideas

462
00:16:53,205 --> 00:16:54,904
that are spreading on a global

463
00:16:55,370 --> 00:16:55,870
scale

464
00:16:56,410 --> 00:16:58,990
and they'll the way that ideas spread

465
00:16:59,450 --> 00:17:02,750
is and philosophical ideas spread is basically,

466
00:17:03,370 --> 00:17:05,150
the the way I think about it is

467
00:17:05,355 --> 00:17:06,335
that you'll have,

468
00:17:08,075 --> 00:17:10,714
people who understand the ideas and then people

469
00:17:10,714 --> 00:17:12,575
who advocate the ideas.

470
00:17:14,710 --> 00:17:16,089
And, so I asked,

471
00:17:16,869 --> 00:17:18,869
if you're were gonna do some prep for

472
00:17:18,869 --> 00:17:19,269
this,

473
00:17:20,069 --> 00:17:22,089
lecture to read the

474
00:17:22,535 --> 00:17:24,954
essay of Ayn Rand's, what can one do?

475
00:17:25,494 --> 00:17:28,375
And in that essay, one point she makes

476
00:17:28,375 --> 00:17:30,315
is that it's too soon

477
00:17:31,130 --> 00:17:32,509
for an organized

478
00:17:32,970 --> 00:17:33,470
movement.

479
00:17:33,930 --> 00:17:36,410
It's not that she's against an organized movement.

480
00:17:36,410 --> 00:17:38,490
It's too soon. And it's why is it

481
00:17:38,490 --> 00:17:40,109
too soon? Well, this is what she says.

482
00:17:41,355 --> 00:17:43,195
Quote. So there's a quote from that article.

483
00:17:43,195 --> 00:17:46,335
What can one do? Quote. An intellectual movement

484
00:17:46,795 --> 00:17:49,775
does not start with organized action.

485
00:17:50,330 --> 00:17:51,630
Whom do I not organize?

486
00:17:52,570 --> 00:17:53,309
A philosophical

487
00:17:53,610 --> 00:17:55,950
battle is a battle for men's minds,

488
00:17:56,410 --> 00:17:59,309
not an attempt to enlist blind followers.

489
00:18:00,375 --> 00:18:01,674
Ideas can be propagated

490
00:18:02,295 --> 00:18:04,315
only by men who understand them.

491
00:18:04,775 --> 00:18:06,315
An organized movement

492
00:18:06,694 --> 00:18:07,994
has to be preceded

493
00:18:08,590 --> 00:18:09,410
by an educational

494
00:18:10,110 --> 00:18:10,610
campaign.

495
00:18:11,869 --> 00:18:14,190
Close quote. She go she goes on from

496
00:18:14,190 --> 00:18:16,105
there and says a few other things but

497
00:18:16,184 --> 00:18:18,365
it has to be preceded by an educational

498
00:18:19,065 --> 00:18:19,565
campaign

499
00:18:19,865 --> 00:18:22,605
and that in essence is what the institute

500
00:18:22,825 --> 00:18:24,125
is about. It's about

501
00:18:24,779 --> 00:18:25,279
education

502
00:18:26,059 --> 00:18:26,880
in objectivism's

503
00:18:27,660 --> 00:18:28,160
ideas

504
00:18:28,619 --> 00:18:31,180
that for the ideas to spread, people have

505
00:18:31,180 --> 00:18:33,484
to understand them and that they have to

506
00:18:33,484 --> 00:18:35,964
really then advocate them, but the first is

507
00:18:35,964 --> 00:18:37,904
they have to understand them and

508
00:18:38,444 --> 00:18:40,284
part of what she's emphasizing, I think in

509
00:18:40,284 --> 00:18:42,039
that article, but it if you think of

510
00:18:42,039 --> 00:18:44,679
the whole philosophy, to understand them is to

511
00:18:44,679 --> 00:18:46,220
understand the positive

512
00:18:46,759 --> 00:18:47,259
vision

513
00:18:47,799 --> 00:18:48,619
that objectivism

514
00:18:49,159 --> 00:18:49,659
offers.

515
00:18:50,454 --> 00:18:51,494
And this came up,

516
00:18:51,894 --> 00:18:53,674
a few people brought this up in conversation

517
00:18:54,055 --> 00:18:55,734
last night and we can talk more about

518
00:18:55,734 --> 00:18:56,795
that through the conference.

519
00:18:59,190 --> 00:19:00,809
When you learn about

520
00:19:01,190 --> 00:19:02,250
Ayn Rand's philosophy

521
00:19:02,710 --> 00:19:05,190
and about objectivism, and if you're taking the

522
00:19:05,190 --> 00:19:06,089
ideas seriously,

523
00:19:07,035 --> 00:19:08,335
one thing that happens

524
00:19:08,714 --> 00:19:10,474
is and I think it should this is

525
00:19:10,474 --> 00:19:12,474
what should happen. It's you look at the

526
00:19:12,474 --> 00:19:15,049
world and it's a lot of things that

527
00:19:15,049 --> 00:19:17,130
I thought were good turn out and they're

528
00:19:17,130 --> 00:19:17,869
not good.

529
00:19:18,809 --> 00:19:20,409
And a lot of things that I thought

530
00:19:20,409 --> 00:19:22,109
are good are actually evil

531
00:19:23,194 --> 00:19:25,515
and evil. Like she puts them Ayn Rand

532
00:19:25,515 --> 00:19:27,434
is a moralist. She puts them in the

533
00:19:27,434 --> 00:19:30,234
category of it's not, well, just a mistake.

534
00:19:30,234 --> 00:19:31,375
Some things are mistaken

535
00:19:31,940 --> 00:19:34,279
but some are just, no, there's a corruption

536
00:19:34,340 --> 00:19:36,519
in here and there's an evil in here

537
00:19:37,299 --> 00:19:40,775
and the it so it reorients you to

538
00:19:40,775 --> 00:19:43,575
values that things you thought were good, you

539
00:19:43,575 --> 00:19:45,595
no longer do and things that you thought

540
00:19:45,815 --> 00:19:47,815
were evil, now you think, oh, well maybe

541
00:19:47,815 --> 00:19:49,559
they're not and actually maybe they're good. Like

542
00:19:49,559 --> 00:19:51,740
the Bill Gates is an example of that.

543
00:19:52,919 --> 00:19:54,940
And what can happen then

544
00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:57,984
is a feeling like I've got to denounce

545
00:19:58,044 --> 00:19:59,025
the evil. And

546
00:20:00,605 --> 00:20:02,845
there are moments and times where I think

547
00:20:02,845 --> 00:20:05,244
it is very important to denounce the evil

548
00:20:05,244 --> 00:20:06,829
but the much more important

549
00:20:07,789 --> 00:20:09,869
is it's taught me that things that I

550
00:20:09,869 --> 00:20:12,369
didn't think are good are actually good

551
00:20:13,069 --> 00:20:16,514
and that's what what one should appreciate, like,

552
00:20:16,514 --> 00:20:18,755
that's what it's shown. It's shown me there's

553
00:20:18,755 --> 00:20:20,595
values in the world that I didn't see

554
00:20:20,595 --> 00:20:22,914
before that now I'm going to go after

555
00:20:22,914 --> 00:20:24,134
and I'm going to pursue,

556
00:20:24,450 --> 00:20:25,890
And then it should be in a kind

557
00:20:25,890 --> 00:20:27,509
of a wider cultural,

558
00:20:27,890 --> 00:20:29,349
political, social sense.

559
00:20:29,730 --> 00:20:32,095
It's I want other people to see that.

560
00:20:32,095 --> 00:20:34,335
I want other people to see what is

561
00:20:34,335 --> 00:20:34,835
good,

562
00:20:35,615 --> 00:20:38,654
both about themselves and in the world and

563
00:20:38,654 --> 00:20:41,154
particularly if they're thinking of it as something

564
00:20:41,779 --> 00:20:43,159
destructive or something

565
00:20:43,700 --> 00:20:46,740
bad but that that the what one should

566
00:20:46,740 --> 00:20:48,200
be thinking about is

567
00:20:49,884 --> 00:20:52,684
the this kind of positive orientation and that

568
00:20:52,684 --> 00:20:53,985
people lack this.

569
00:20:55,325 --> 00:20:57,744
And so what the spread of objectivism

570
00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:00,799
will look like, I think, and what we

571
00:21:00,799 --> 00:21:04,259
at the institute are really interested in people,

572
00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:07,359
I mean, so we're on a crusade in

573
00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:10,545
that sense. We're interested in these ideas really

574
00:21:10,545 --> 00:21:11,845
spreading through the world.

575
00:21:12,144 --> 00:21:14,384
And what will it look like for the

576
00:21:14,384 --> 00:21:15,525
ideas to spread?

577
00:21:16,144 --> 00:21:16,644
And

578
00:21:17,109 --> 00:21:19,210
I think when you look at other cultural

579
00:21:19,269 --> 00:21:19,769
movements,

580
00:21:20,230 --> 00:21:22,470
you see 2 kinds of things and whether

581
00:21:22,470 --> 00:21:25,589
you're taking positive or negative movements, movements that

582
00:21:25,589 --> 00:21:26,994
you think were,

583
00:21:27,775 --> 00:21:29,075
successful but destructive

584
00:21:29,775 --> 00:21:31,474
and movements that were successful

585
00:21:32,174 --> 00:21:35,315
and achieved something positive. They were not destructive

586
00:21:35,454 --> 00:21:36,194
but constructive.

587
00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:39,200
They achieved something positive. When you look at

588
00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:39,940
these movements,

589
00:21:41,039 --> 00:21:43,119
I think what you see is 2 broad

590
00:21:43,119 --> 00:21:43,619
phenomena.

591
00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:47,454
1 is a lot of people getting involved

592
00:21:47,515 --> 00:21:49,615
in the movement and self identifying

593
00:21:50,555 --> 00:21:53,694
as part of this as I'm a Christian

594
00:21:55,890 --> 00:21:56,950
or I'm a Marxist.

595
00:21:58,529 --> 00:21:59,890
To the I think I view these as

596
00:21:59,890 --> 00:22:02,210
2 destructive movements, but when you think of

597
00:22:02,210 --> 00:22:05,694
the spread of Christianity or of Marxism and

598
00:22:05,694 --> 00:22:06,194
Nikos,

599
00:22:06,654 --> 00:22:08,654
later in the conference will be talking in

600
00:22:08,654 --> 00:22:11,134
more detail about some of the thinking about

601
00:22:11,134 --> 00:22:11,589
the

602
00:22:12,150 --> 00:22:13,450
Marxism as a movement.

603
00:22:13,829 --> 00:22:15,289
When you think of it,

604
00:22:15,589 --> 00:22:18,150
one of the things it does is there's

605
00:22:18,150 --> 00:22:21,605
people who are embarking on it and are

606
00:22:21,605 --> 00:22:22,105
proud

607
00:22:22,724 --> 00:22:25,045
to be a part of it. They're proud

608
00:22:25,045 --> 00:22:25,865
to identify

609
00:22:26,164 --> 00:22:26,664
as

610
00:22:27,045 --> 00:22:29,625
I'm a Christian. I'm adopting this new,

611
00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:32,420
universal religion. I'm a Marxist

612
00:22:33,279 --> 00:22:36,000
and and unless there's people willing to do

613
00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:36,500
that,

614
00:22:37,494 --> 00:22:39,575
I don't think the ideas will spread and

615
00:22:39,575 --> 00:22:42,154
this is particularly true. Those are 2

616
00:22:42,455 --> 00:22:45,029
negative movements. But if you look say at

617
00:22:45,269 --> 00:22:47,210
if you look at the founding of America,

618
00:22:47,269 --> 00:22:49,750
of the amount of people at just at

619
00:22:49,750 --> 00:22:51,829
not at the kind of leaders in the

620
00:22:51,829 --> 00:22:52,329
society

621
00:22:52,855 --> 00:22:55,734
who were talking about the ideas, discussing the

622
00:22:55,734 --> 00:22:58,315
ideas, discussing the need for independence,

623
00:22:58,774 --> 00:23:00,694
discussing the need for a new form of

624
00:23:00,694 --> 00:23:01,194
government.

625
00:23:01,660 --> 00:23:04,059
It's tremendous when you look in the history

626
00:23:04,059 --> 00:23:06,460
of it and the kind of just at

627
00:23:06,460 --> 00:23:08,700
the level of newspaper stories and so on.

628
00:23:08,700 --> 00:23:09,440
The people

629
00:23:09,900 --> 00:23:10,880
discussing this

630
00:23:11,255 --> 00:23:11,994
and advocating

631
00:23:12,535 --> 00:23:15,255
for this but at just an individual level,

632
00:23:15,255 --> 00:23:16,234
not at a professional

633
00:23:16,615 --> 00:23:19,335
level. If you take one aspect of the,

634
00:23:20,179 --> 00:23:21,640
what comes out of the American

635
00:23:22,019 --> 00:23:24,039
revolution, the abolitionist movement.

636
00:23:24,660 --> 00:23:26,119
There were a lot of people

637
00:23:26,660 --> 00:23:29,765
who aren't the leaders of the movement who

638
00:23:29,765 --> 00:23:31,464
were just would identify

639
00:23:32,404 --> 00:23:32,904
as

640
00:23:33,365 --> 00:23:34,105
were abolitionists

641
00:23:35,285 --> 00:23:37,304
and it it's hard to

642
00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:40,140
imagine how scary it was to do that

643
00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:43,019
in a society that it had embraced slavery.

644
00:23:44,039 --> 00:23:45,900
These people were persecuted,

645
00:23:46,785 --> 00:23:49,265
denounced as evil even though what they were

646
00:23:49,265 --> 00:23:51,664
embracing was something good, but there was a

647
00:23:51,664 --> 00:23:54,120
willingness to do it. They have seen like

648
00:23:54,120 --> 00:23:55,019
this is right,

649
00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:56,620
this is good,

650
00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:00,299
the slavery is not just like a little

651
00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:02,380
destructive. I mean, it's an abominable

652
00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:03,180
evil

653
00:24:03,804 --> 00:24:06,125
and of to speak out in regard to

654
00:24:06,125 --> 00:24:07,585
it, but the primary wasn't

655
00:24:08,045 --> 00:24:11,184
the evil of slavery. The primary was

656
00:24:11,819 --> 00:24:14,940
that look, men are created equal. They use

657
00:24:14,940 --> 00:24:15,679
their language.

658
00:24:16,460 --> 00:24:18,159
Men are created equal.

659
00:24:19,394 --> 00:24:22,034
They should be treated with that level of

660
00:24:22,034 --> 00:24:22,534
respect,

661
00:24:22,994 --> 00:24:24,855
that rev level of acknowledgment

662
00:24:25,154 --> 00:24:28,349
of their rights and the abolition movement in

663
00:24:28,349 --> 00:24:28,849
its,

664
00:24:29,470 --> 00:24:30,769
you can think in its

665
00:24:33,150 --> 00:24:34,849
kind of lived experience,

666
00:24:36,815 --> 00:24:38,434
It was something positive

667
00:24:38,734 --> 00:24:41,714
that if you get away from the prejudices

668
00:24:41,934 --> 00:24:44,494
of judging someone based on the the color

669
00:24:44,494 --> 00:24:47,369
of their skin, It's an enormous positive in

670
00:24:47,369 --> 00:24:48,349
your own life

671
00:24:49,450 --> 00:24:51,069
that is if you're willing

672
00:24:51,369 --> 00:24:54,269
to to to take Martin Luther King's phrase,

673
00:24:55,075 --> 00:24:56,914
to judge someone by the content of the

674
00:24:56,914 --> 00:24:57,414
character

675
00:24:57,795 --> 00:25:00,535
not by the color of their skin, your

676
00:25:00,595 --> 00:25:02,295
own personal life

677
00:25:02,674 --> 00:25:03,894
is way better

678
00:25:04,299 --> 00:25:06,940
because you're gonna associate with good people whoever

679
00:25:06,940 --> 00:25:08,940
that wherever you find them and whatever the

680
00:25:08,940 --> 00:25:10,940
color of their skin and you're gonna avoid

681
00:25:10,940 --> 00:25:11,680
bad people

682
00:25:12,059 --> 00:25:12,559
again

683
00:25:13,025 --> 00:25:14,785
wherever they are and whatever the color of

684
00:25:14,785 --> 00:25:16,625
their skin. It's not like if they're white,

685
00:25:16,625 --> 00:25:17,365
they're good

686
00:25:17,825 --> 00:25:20,065
and your life because you can navigate your

687
00:25:20,065 --> 00:25:22,650
life like that without that form of prejudice,

688
00:25:22,650 --> 00:25:24,970
it's way better and part of the reason

689
00:25:24,970 --> 00:25:26,750
I think the abolition movement spread

690
00:25:27,049 --> 00:25:29,505
is people could see that. They could see,

691
00:25:29,505 --> 00:25:31,505
yeah, like this is a way better way

692
00:25:31,505 --> 00:25:35,105
to live. Your own personal life would be

693
00:25:35,105 --> 00:25:38,005
way better if you abandon this prejudice

694
00:25:38,450 --> 00:25:41,130
and then at a political social level, it's

695
00:25:41,250 --> 00:25:42,769
yeah, we should get rid of this. It's

696
00:25:42,769 --> 00:25:44,930
an abomination to have this in the form

697
00:25:44,930 --> 00:25:46,744
of law but it there that

698
00:25:47,224 --> 00:25:48,204
inherent element

699
00:25:48,664 --> 00:25:50,845
of at an individual level

700
00:25:51,305 --> 00:25:53,565
is really important and I think it's

701
00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:57,440
much more important for movement that says what

702
00:25:57,440 --> 00:25:58,259
we're offering

703
00:25:58,640 --> 00:25:59,140
is

704
00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:00,180
positives.

705
00:26:01,255 --> 00:26:02,855
So the I put the title of the

706
00:26:02,855 --> 00:26:04,954
talk, the need for objectivist

707
00:26:05,255 --> 00:26:05,994
and objectivist

708
00:26:06,295 --> 00:26:06,795
intellectuals.

709
00:26:07,974 --> 00:26:09,755
The first part, the need for objectivist.

710
00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:12,299
I would put like this. So,

711
00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:15,160
if I were the

712
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:17,660
it's not just the need for objectivist.

713
00:26:18,514 --> 00:26:20,194
I put that in just as the title.

714
00:26:20,194 --> 00:26:22,355
But what it that really means, it's the

715
00:26:22,355 --> 00:26:23,575
need for successful

716
00:26:23,875 --> 00:26:24,375
objectivist

717
00:26:25,509 --> 00:26:27,529
who will talk about objectivism

718
00:26:28,390 --> 00:26:30,650
as being an aid to their success.

719
00:26:32,365 --> 00:26:35,345
So for for these ideas to spread,

720
00:26:35,884 --> 00:26:38,365
they I think it it what you need

721
00:26:38,365 --> 00:26:42,360
is you're actually adopting and living the ideas

722
00:26:42,500 --> 00:26:43,880
in your own life.

723
00:26:44,420 --> 00:26:46,340
So if if what they offer is a

724
00:26:46,340 --> 00:26:48,275
positive, if what they offer is a path

725
00:26:48,275 --> 00:26:49,575
to the pursuit of happiness,

726
00:26:50,434 --> 00:26:52,674
that there has to be evidence for that.

727
00:26:52,674 --> 00:26:55,015
And the evidence for it really is

728
00:26:55,809 --> 00:26:59,650
individual people adopting the ideas and their lives

729
00:26:59,650 --> 00:27:02,049
being better as a result of it. And

730
00:27:02,049 --> 00:27:04,345
this is the sense that it's successful and

731
00:27:04,345 --> 00:27:07,304
successful doesn't mean it's you're you're famous or

732
00:27:07,304 --> 00:27:09,785
you're you're some kind of world celebrity. It

733
00:27:09,785 --> 00:27:12,285
just means your life is going well

734
00:27:12,750 --> 00:27:15,650
and it's gone better as a result of

735
00:27:15,710 --> 00:27:18,049
discarding all kinds of wrong ideas

736
00:27:18,350 --> 00:27:21,470
and embracing right ideas. The objectivism really is

737
00:27:21,470 --> 00:27:24,464
knowledge. It's you're embracing right ideas and your

738
00:27:24,464 --> 00:27:26,144
life should be better as a result of

739
00:27:26,144 --> 00:27:28,785
it. And it should then appear from the

740
00:27:28,785 --> 00:27:29,285
outside

741
00:27:30,065 --> 00:27:31,125
to other people

742
00:27:31,690 --> 00:27:34,269
as, yeah, they're like, this person knows something.

743
00:27:35,529 --> 00:27:37,609
It would be and that it might be

744
00:27:37,609 --> 00:27:41,174
worth me knowing about that you see the

745
00:27:41,174 --> 00:27:43,734
evidence of, yeah, this person's life in various

746
00:27:43,734 --> 00:27:46,134
ways is going well. He lives in a

747
00:27:46,134 --> 00:27:48,799
different kind of way than other people do.

748
00:27:48,799 --> 00:27:50,019
He's not conventional

749
00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:52,559
is one way you can put it. And

750
00:27:52,559 --> 00:27:54,160
this in terms of if you just think

751
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:56,214
from the novel's perspective, this is one of

752
00:27:56,214 --> 00:27:58,294
the things I think of for people who

753
00:27:58,294 --> 00:28:00,615
the novels really resonate. It's you meet a

754
00:28:00,615 --> 00:28:02,934
Howard Rourke or you meet a Dagny Taggart

755
00:28:02,934 --> 00:28:04,694
and one of the first things that strikes

756
00:28:04,694 --> 00:28:06,950
you is they're not conventional.

757
00:28:07,570 --> 00:28:10,049
They don't just think in the ways that

758
00:28:10,049 --> 00:28:12,369
we've been taught to think. They think outside

759
00:28:12,369 --> 00:28:13,750
the box in certain ways

760
00:28:14,174 --> 00:28:16,335
and their life seems better. Like, it seems

761
00:28:16,335 --> 00:28:18,035
like your life would be better

762
00:28:18,335 --> 00:28:19,474
if you did this.

763
00:28:19,934 --> 00:28:21,775
That's from the fiction and but there has

764
00:28:21,775 --> 00:28:23,929
to be a parallel in real life.

765
00:28:24,230 --> 00:28:26,150
It has to be that people look and

766
00:28:26,150 --> 00:28:28,009
see objectivist and think,

767
00:28:28,390 --> 00:28:31,134
yeah, okay. These people think differently. They're not

768
00:28:31,375 --> 00:28:33,454
conventional and they don't live their lives in

769
00:28:33,454 --> 00:28:34,674
a conventional way

770
00:28:35,934 --> 00:28:38,690
and it seems like there's something here worth

771
00:28:38,929 --> 00:28:39,429
emulating,

772
00:28:39,730 --> 00:28:42,069
worth learning about, worth pursuing.

773
00:28:42,929 --> 00:28:46,069
And anybody, like, anybody at any level

774
00:28:46,450 --> 00:28:49,105
can do this. If you're objectivism and you

775
00:28:49,105 --> 00:28:50,404
take the ideas seriously.

776
00:28:50,865 --> 00:28:53,345
You can do this. So everybody in that

777
00:28:53,345 --> 00:28:55,365
sense can be an advocate

778
00:28:56,119 --> 00:28:58,279
for the ideas and it it and it's

779
00:28:58,279 --> 00:29:01,480
not it there's not any kind of self

780
00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:01,980
sacrificial

781
00:29:02,279 --> 00:29:04,279
duty here that it's all I have to

782
00:29:04,279 --> 00:29:05,019
spread objectivism.

783
00:29:05,784 --> 00:29:07,544
It's you what you should do is want

784
00:29:07,544 --> 00:29:09,625
to live it but that if you're living

785
00:29:09,625 --> 00:29:12,125
it well and you're living it successfully,

786
00:29:13,330 --> 00:29:14,630
that will naturally

787
00:29:15,490 --> 00:29:16,549
spread the ideas

788
00:29:16,930 --> 00:29:18,710
because people will act like like

789
00:29:19,090 --> 00:29:19,590
like

790
00:29:20,285 --> 00:29:22,525
whatever it is, your family relations are very

791
00:29:22,525 --> 00:29:25,345
different. Most people's family relations are a mess.

792
00:29:26,204 --> 00:29:28,444
They are a mess of positive things that

793
00:29:28,444 --> 00:29:30,109
they get real values from

794
00:29:30,910 --> 00:29:33,730
their family, from relatives and so on and

795
00:29:33,869 --> 00:29:36,609
real negatives that it's, yeah, I've got this

796
00:29:36,829 --> 00:29:38,910
aunt or uncle who I we can't stand

797
00:29:38,910 --> 00:29:41,095
but of course, we invite them to every

798
00:29:41,394 --> 00:29:43,714
family gathering because how can you not invite

799
00:29:43,714 --> 00:29:45,014
them to a family gathering?

800
00:29:45,315 --> 00:29:47,075
And it's so it's a mixture and a

801
00:29:47,075 --> 00:29:49,359
mess of positives and negatives.

802
00:29:49,660 --> 00:29:51,579
And if they see people, look, there's a

803
00:29:51,579 --> 00:29:53,339
better way to navigate this. It's not you

804
00:29:53,339 --> 00:29:55,835
don't have a duty to every family member

805
00:29:55,835 --> 00:29:58,474
and every extended relative and so that is

806
00:29:58,474 --> 00:30:00,954
all a family, everyone has to get along

807
00:30:00,954 --> 00:30:03,730
and and and so we don't talk about

808
00:30:03,730 --> 00:30:06,289
anything important at any gathering and so on.

809
00:30:06,289 --> 00:30:08,369
That's just a way of erasing yourself from

810
00:30:08,369 --> 00:30:09,029
your life,

811
00:30:10,049 --> 00:30:11,964
and people can see that and they they

812
00:30:11,964 --> 00:30:13,724
can see, yeah, okay. May maybe there is

813
00:30:13,724 --> 00:30:15,164
a better way to live and like, how

814
00:30:15,164 --> 00:30:16,605
do you deal with your family? And they

815
00:30:16,605 --> 00:30:19,085
can ask you about that. But the second

816
00:30:19,085 --> 00:30:20,779
point, so that that that in terms of

817
00:30:20,859 --> 00:30:23,740
spreading the ideas, that that's the value of

818
00:30:23,740 --> 00:30:26,080
the ideas and why they would spread that.

819
00:30:26,460 --> 00:30:28,320
But the second thing I wanna emphasize

820
00:30:28,700 --> 00:30:29,200
is

821
00:30:30,924 --> 00:30:33,825
the more you speak and that you openly

822
00:30:34,285 --> 00:30:37,644
speak about the positive role that Ayn Rand's

823
00:30:37,644 --> 00:30:40,369
ideas have had for you and in your

824
00:30:40,369 --> 00:30:40,869
life,

825
00:30:41,570 --> 00:30:43,570
the more the ideas will spread. So it's

826
00:30:43,570 --> 00:30:44,230
a combination,

827
00:30:44,529 --> 00:30:46,869
I think, of you're actually embodying

828
00:30:47,414 --> 00:30:49,494
and living the ideas and you're trying to

829
00:30:49,494 --> 00:30:51,734
live it, the ideas, and you're taking them

830
00:30:51,734 --> 00:30:52,234
seriously.

831
00:30:52,615 --> 00:30:54,269
And you talk about that,

832
00:30:54,830 --> 00:30:57,470
that this is what I'm trying to do.

833
00:30:57,470 --> 00:30:59,549
The like, I think these ideas are to

834
00:30:59,549 --> 00:31:00,130
the extent

835
00:31:00,430 --> 00:31:02,289
that you think the ideas are right,

836
00:31:02,804 --> 00:31:05,845
and that they're true, that you're willing and

837
00:31:05,845 --> 00:31:08,184
open about talking about that.

838
00:31:09,605 --> 00:31:11,765
And the so one way I think about

839
00:31:11,765 --> 00:31:13,890
this and I I think I'm putting it

840
00:31:13,890 --> 00:31:15,890
deliberately like this because I think there's real

841
00:31:15,890 --> 00:31:16,390
parallels.

842
00:31:16,769 --> 00:31:16,850
It's

843
00:31:17,570 --> 00:31:19,890
there's an issue of whether are you in

844
00:31:19,890 --> 00:31:20,549
the closet

845
00:31:21,464 --> 00:31:23,325
about your interest in objectivism

846
00:31:23,944 --> 00:31:25,565
or are you out of the closet?

847
00:31:26,265 --> 00:31:28,984
And the the metaphor of the closet was

848
00:31:28,984 --> 00:31:31,440
used for people who were gay, homosexual,

849
00:31:32,220 --> 00:31:34,140
but there's a similar thing for when you

850
00:31:34,140 --> 00:31:34,960
were an abolitionist

851
00:31:35,500 --> 00:31:38,779
in the 19th century, surrounded by people who

852
00:31:38,779 --> 00:31:39,279
think,

853
00:31:40,275 --> 00:31:42,674
if not slavery, if it's not right, it's

854
00:31:42,674 --> 00:31:43,575
at least tolerable.

855
00:31:44,434 --> 00:31:46,755
And you certainly don't wanna rock the boat

856
00:31:46,755 --> 00:31:48,434
and say, well, we should get rid of

857
00:31:48,434 --> 00:31:49,869
this whole institution.

858
00:31:50,330 --> 00:31:50,970
So they've

859
00:31:51,450 --> 00:31:53,170
the so it's the

860
00:31:53,610 --> 00:31:54,910
all every,

861
00:31:56,815 --> 00:31:59,315
positive movement starts small.

862
00:32:00,015 --> 00:32:02,914
And when it's small, there's a real temptation

863
00:32:03,054 --> 00:32:03,294
to

864
00:32:03,909 --> 00:32:05,589
like, I wanna stay in the closet. I

865
00:32:05,589 --> 00:32:07,849
don't want people to know this. It's scary

866
00:32:08,630 --> 00:32:11,455
for people to know this. And part of

867
00:32:11,455 --> 00:32:13,615
the reason it is scary is you are

868
00:32:13,615 --> 00:32:14,434
in opposition

869
00:32:14,894 --> 00:32:16,515
to a lot of what's going on

870
00:32:16,815 --> 00:32:19,215
in the world and in society. So like

871
00:32:19,215 --> 00:32:20,755
the abolitionists, it's like

872
00:32:21,490 --> 00:32:21,990
this

873
00:32:22,450 --> 00:32:24,390
this system that is integral

874
00:32:24,930 --> 00:32:26,549
to our whole economy,

875
00:32:27,490 --> 00:32:29,674
I am opposed to completely. Not it's where

876
00:32:29,674 --> 00:32:31,434
we need to modify it a little bit.

877
00:32:31,434 --> 00:32:32,894
We need to abolish it.

878
00:32:33,515 --> 00:32:35,775
That is if it's a radical position,

879
00:32:36,190 --> 00:32:38,289
it's a position that will

880
00:32:38,670 --> 00:32:39,170
naturally,

881
00:32:40,830 --> 00:32:44,190
encourage opposition to it or will naturally have

882
00:32:44,190 --> 00:32:46,414
a lot of opposition to it. But if

883
00:32:46,414 --> 00:32:48,974
you really think it's right and you really

884
00:32:48,974 --> 00:32:51,555
think it's true, there is an element

885
00:32:52,174 --> 00:32:52,674
of

886
00:32:53,055 --> 00:32:56,250
bravery and courage, I think, in just,

887
00:32:58,069 --> 00:33:01,349
being open about what your actual ideas, what

888
00:33:01,349 --> 00:33:04,965
your actual position, what your actual stand is.

889
00:33:04,965 --> 00:33:07,125
And when you read about the abolitionist, I

890
00:33:07,125 --> 00:33:08,565
mean, to say that it was scary, I

891
00:33:08,565 --> 00:33:09,065
mean,

892
00:33:09,365 --> 00:33:12,109
from various towns in the US, they were

893
00:33:12,109 --> 00:33:13,809
literally run out of town

894
00:33:14,509 --> 00:33:16,909
for being an abolitionist and it in that

895
00:33:16,909 --> 00:33:18,289
kind of situation,

896
00:33:18,625 --> 00:33:21,105
I mean, that is way more scary than

897
00:33:21,105 --> 00:33:23,105
I think the kind of opposition that one

898
00:33:23,105 --> 00:33:23,605
faces

899
00:33:23,984 --> 00:33:25,605
today that is largely

900
00:33:26,065 --> 00:33:28,005
you'll get frowns, scorn,

901
00:33:29,410 --> 00:33:31,670
and kind of criticism but not

902
00:33:32,049 --> 00:33:34,369
physical violence though it you can sometimes have

903
00:33:34,369 --> 00:33:37,410
that. But there in any positive movement, when

904
00:33:37,410 --> 00:33:39,434
you look at how it develops,

905
00:33:39,974 --> 00:33:40,474
unless

906
00:33:41,335 --> 00:33:43,815
people have the courage to do that, it

907
00:33:43,815 --> 00:33:46,454
never gets off the ground. And my view

908
00:33:46,454 --> 00:33:48,390
is that so there's

909
00:33:48,769 --> 00:33:49,430
still not

910
00:33:49,809 --> 00:33:50,870
enough objectivists

911
00:33:51,890 --> 00:33:54,370
and people interest like seriously interested in Ayn

912
00:33:54,370 --> 00:33:56,950
Rand's ideas to have an organized movement

913
00:33:57,375 --> 00:34:00,095
But it's large enough now that people should

914
00:34:00,095 --> 00:34:00,994
be open

915
00:34:01,375 --> 00:34:02,515
about their interest

916
00:34:02,815 --> 00:34:05,375
in Ayn Rand. And if you're interested in

917
00:34:05,375 --> 00:34:06,115
the spread

918
00:34:06,559 --> 00:34:07,460
of these ideas

919
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:10,400
and but interested in the spread of it

920
00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:11,460
from a very personal

921
00:34:12,159 --> 00:34:15,925
self interested perspective that these I really think

922
00:34:15,925 --> 00:34:18,644
these ideas are true and they can,

923
00:34:19,605 --> 00:34:21,545
move the world in a better direction.

924
00:34:22,019 --> 00:34:24,340
It's in your interest that they become more

925
00:34:24,340 --> 00:34:25,719
and more known,

926
00:34:26,739 --> 00:34:29,140
and more and more talked about, and you

927
00:34:29,140 --> 00:34:30,039
never know

928
00:34:30,420 --> 00:34:31,855
when you'll engage

929
00:34:33,114 --> 00:34:35,355
a mind with the ideas. And this also

930
00:34:35,355 --> 00:34:35,994
came up,

931
00:34:36,315 --> 00:34:38,094
a little bit in some of my conversations

932
00:34:38,555 --> 00:34:39,055
yesterday.

933
00:34:40,049 --> 00:34:41,989
Even when you meet opposition

934
00:34:42,609 --> 00:34:44,929
and people tell you, oh, you're crazy for

935
00:34:44,929 --> 00:34:47,109
thinking laissez faire, really?

936
00:34:49,224 --> 00:34:51,465
There would be a complete separation of the,

937
00:34:51,864 --> 00:34:53,244
government from the economy?

938
00:34:53,945 --> 00:34:54,764
That's crazy.

939
00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:58,599
And we've our new often gal, we've tried

940
00:34:58,599 --> 00:35:00,280
that in the 19th century which is not

941
00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:01,800
true and it was a disaster which is

942
00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:02,780
also not true.

943
00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:06,825
But that you'll get so it there's no

944
00:35:06,825 --> 00:35:08,765
question that you'll often get

945
00:35:09,144 --> 00:35:09,644
opposition,

946
00:35:10,345 --> 00:35:11,485
often defensive

947
00:35:12,025 --> 00:35:13,864
in regard to it. Often it will be

948
00:35:13,864 --> 00:35:16,639
like you're crazy. How could you possibly think

949
00:35:16,639 --> 00:35:17,139
that?

950
00:35:17,679 --> 00:35:18,980
And yet I've met

951
00:35:20,079 --> 00:35:21,760
the not like not just 1 or 2

952
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:23,299
people where that happens

953
00:35:23,684 --> 00:35:25,284
and you meet them 3 or 4 months

954
00:35:25,284 --> 00:35:27,445
later and it was, you know, I thought

955
00:35:27,445 --> 00:35:29,385
a little bit more about what you said

956
00:35:29,525 --> 00:35:31,224
in this conversation and

957
00:35:32,250 --> 00:35:34,410
yeah, maybe you were more right than I

958
00:35:34,410 --> 00:35:36,010
was thinking. Now, I'm not saying that this

959
00:35:36,010 --> 00:35:38,489
is gonna always happen or even the majority

960
00:35:38,489 --> 00:35:40,994
of time have it, but it happens more

961
00:35:40,994 --> 00:35:42,375
often than one thinks

962
00:35:42,914 --> 00:35:45,714
that it's and and particularly because there's it's

963
00:35:45,714 --> 00:35:46,214
it's

964
00:35:47,130 --> 00:35:48,269
the that conventional

965
00:35:48,650 --> 00:35:50,250
in part you should think about the world

966
00:35:50,250 --> 00:35:52,250
of the fountainhead. And like this is what

967
00:35:52,250 --> 00:35:54,355
I'm supposed to say and this is how

968
00:35:54,355 --> 00:35:56,434
I'm supposed to react and the more you're

969
00:35:56,434 --> 00:35:58,835
in a social gathering, there's other people, I've

970
00:35:58,835 --> 00:36:01,175
got a single that, yeah, like I I'm

971
00:36:01,554 --> 00:36:03,539
supposed to think that's crazy, so I'm gonna

972
00:36:03,539 --> 00:36:04,519
say that that's crazy

973
00:36:05,380 --> 00:36:07,960
and yet when the person in the,

974
00:36:08,739 --> 00:36:11,079
sort of the privacy of their own mind,

975
00:36:11,414 --> 00:36:13,175
When you have a better kind of person,

976
00:36:13,175 --> 00:36:14,074
it will be,

977
00:36:14,375 --> 00:36:16,775
you know, but okay. I said all that.

978
00:36:16,775 --> 00:36:18,394
Was anything I said true?

979
00:36:19,269 --> 00:36:20,789
And do I really know it? And and

980
00:36:20,789 --> 00:36:22,789
I told the other person they're crazy, but

981
00:36:22,789 --> 00:36:24,710
do I really know they're crazy? And I

982
00:36:24,710 --> 00:36:26,230
told them, well, that was tried in the

983
00:36:26,230 --> 00:36:27,989
19th century. Do I know anything about the

984
00:36:27,989 --> 00:36:29,974
19th century? Do I actually know any of

985
00:36:29,974 --> 00:36:32,215
this that what I've said? And better people

986
00:36:32,215 --> 00:36:32,715
will

987
00:36:33,735 --> 00:36:35,755
they will pause and they will think more

988
00:36:35,815 --> 00:36:37,914
even if not in the kind of immediate

989
00:36:38,135 --> 00:36:38,635
circumstances.

990
00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:41,260
And that's part of what it looks like

991
00:36:41,639 --> 00:36:42,619
for ideas

992
00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:43,420
to,

993
00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:46,039
spread and to so the the fact that

994
00:36:46,039 --> 00:36:47,739
you can't convince someone

995
00:36:48,394 --> 00:36:48,894
immediately,

996
00:36:49,515 --> 00:36:50,015
automatically,

997
00:36:51,434 --> 00:36:54,875
with this sign of almost no effort, that's

998
00:36:54,875 --> 00:36:56,940
not going to happen, but the idea that

999
00:36:56,940 --> 00:36:59,179
you can't convince people when you think of

1000
00:36:59,179 --> 00:37:01,359
it as a longer term project,

1001
00:37:02,460 --> 00:37:05,295
I think is false That there's many reasons

1002
00:37:05,295 --> 00:37:07,375
to think that you can't. And and what

1003
00:37:07,375 --> 00:37:08,894
can one do that I think is part

1004
00:37:08,894 --> 00:37:11,375
of what Ayn Rand is emphasizing. That there's

1005
00:37:11,375 --> 00:37:12,114
no shortcut.

1006
00:37:12,949 --> 00:37:13,849
There's no

1007
00:37:14,469 --> 00:37:17,269
easy path to the spread of ideas, but

1008
00:37:17,269 --> 00:37:19,750
that shouldn't then the the the consequence shouldn't

1009
00:37:19,750 --> 00:37:21,625
be, well, okay. I'm gonna give up on

1010
00:37:21,625 --> 00:37:23,224
trying to spread the ideas. You just have

1011
00:37:23,224 --> 00:37:25,944
to be realistic about what that looks like.

1012
00:37:25,944 --> 00:37:27,224
And there as I said, there I think

1013
00:37:27,224 --> 00:37:29,164
there really is an element of courage

1014
00:37:29,569 --> 00:37:31,909
in regard to doing this when one has

1015
00:37:32,049 --> 00:37:33,190
a kind of minority

1016
00:37:33,730 --> 00:37:36,849
viewpoint, a viewpoint that's way outside of what

1017
00:37:36,849 --> 00:37:38,150
is deemed conventional.

1018
00:37:39,934 --> 00:37:43,155
So that's at a, at a individual

1019
00:37:43,535 --> 00:37:44,035
level

1020
00:37:44,575 --> 00:37:46,679
of thinking about the spread of ideas. So

1021
00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:49,480
and why we need more objectivists, I think.

1022
00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:51,239
We need as I said, you need more

1023
00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:52,380
successful objectivists

1024
00:37:53,079 --> 00:37:57,135
who are open about talking about the value

1025
00:37:57,135 --> 00:37:59,875
the philosophy has brought to their own life.

1026
00:38:01,210 --> 00:38:03,929
And the second thing that you need is

1027
00:38:03,929 --> 00:38:06,029
we need way more objectivist

1028
00:38:06,489 --> 00:38:07,949
intellectuals. So intellectuals

1029
00:38:08,329 --> 00:38:09,309
as a profession

1030
00:38:09,914 --> 00:38:12,175
that's dealing with the spread

1031
00:38:12,554 --> 00:38:13,614
of a philosophical

1032
00:38:14,554 --> 00:38:15,054
ideas,

1033
00:38:15,594 --> 00:38:16,494
but that that's

1034
00:38:16,954 --> 00:38:19,829
integral to one's profession. So it's not everybody.

1035
00:38:20,610 --> 00:38:23,170
I think everybody who's interested in Ayn Rand's

1036
00:38:23,170 --> 00:38:24,789
ideas, as I said, can participate

1037
00:38:25,250 --> 00:38:26,309
in their spread

1038
00:38:27,695 --> 00:38:28,595
in in

1039
00:38:28,974 --> 00:38:31,454
them kind of seeping into the culture. An

1040
00:38:31,454 --> 00:38:34,355
intellectual is somebody who's this is their profession.

1041
00:38:34,894 --> 00:38:35,394
And

1042
00:38:38,250 --> 00:38:41,050
the why do we need more objectivist intellectuals?

1043
00:38:41,050 --> 00:38:42,750
And when I say we need more objectivist

1044
00:38:42,809 --> 00:38:44,570
intellectuals, I don't mean like we need 5

1045
00:38:44,570 --> 00:38:47,025
more or we need 10 more or even

1046
00:38:47,025 --> 00:38:48,005
a 100 more.

1047
00:38:48,464 --> 00:38:50,085
We need on a scale

1048
00:38:50,625 --> 00:38:52,704
that that there's a real issue of scale

1049
00:38:52,704 --> 00:38:55,839
here and issue of numbers, same for objectivist

1050
00:38:55,980 --> 00:38:56,799
as a movement,

1051
00:38:57,659 --> 00:38:59,039
but we need tens of 1,000.

1052
00:39:00,699 --> 00:39:03,679
And when you look at what other movements

1053
00:39:03,900 --> 00:39:06,525
did, when you look at how many people

1054
00:39:06,605 --> 00:39:08,864
so take marxism as an example.

1055
00:39:09,485 --> 00:39:11,905
How many intellectuals it had

1056
00:39:12,250 --> 00:39:14,489
or you might call them pseudo intellectuals but

1057
00:39:14,489 --> 00:39:16,909
they're in the profession of an intellectual

1058
00:39:17,369 --> 00:39:20,409
of spreading ideas and that doesn't mean like

1059
00:39:20,409 --> 00:39:21,469
just in philosophy

1060
00:39:21,985 --> 00:39:22,885
and in philosophy

1061
00:39:23,344 --> 00:39:23,844
departments,

1062
00:39:24,304 --> 00:39:26,065
though it includes that and when I went

1063
00:39:26,065 --> 00:39:28,065
to school in the late eighties in my

1064
00:39:28,065 --> 00:39:30,949
undergraduate, I mean, there's a card carrying Marxist

1065
00:39:31,090 --> 00:39:31,590
professor

1066
00:39:31,969 --> 00:39:33,889
in the tomorrow and more than one. Actually,

1067
00:39:33,889 --> 00:39:35,730
I was in a big, university in a

1068
00:39:35,730 --> 00:39:38,474
big department who like openly, yeah, I'm a

1069
00:39:38,474 --> 00:39:41,114
Marxist. What I teach is Marxism. What I

1070
00:39:41,114 --> 00:39:43,355
advocate is Marxism. I look at the whole

1071
00:39:43,355 --> 00:39:45,855
world from the Marxist perspective.

1072
00:39:46,380 --> 00:39:48,300
You have that in philosophy but you had

1073
00:39:48,300 --> 00:39:49,039
it in

1074
00:39:49,420 --> 00:39:49,920
basically

1075
00:39:50,219 --> 00:39:52,079
every field in the humanities.

1076
00:39:52,940 --> 00:39:55,414
You had history, I mean history, there was

1077
00:39:55,414 --> 00:39:57,335
a period, a long period of time, where

1078
00:39:57,335 --> 00:39:59,434
it was dominated by marxists.

1079
00:39:59,894 --> 00:40:01,034
That is of

1080
00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:03,579
people looking at history

1081
00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:06,619
from the perspective of the marxist philosophy

1082
00:40:07,159 --> 00:40:09,644
and how if marxism is true, how do

1083
00:40:09,644 --> 00:40:11,664
we understand history from that perspective?

1084
00:40:12,045 --> 00:40:12,945
And there,

1085
00:40:13,405 --> 00:40:15,005
I'm using history as one of the examples

1086
00:40:15,005 --> 00:40:16,224
because it they dominated

1087
00:40:16,910 --> 00:40:19,710
in history departments, but there's actually a reason

1088
00:40:19,710 --> 00:40:21,010
why. They had something

1089
00:40:21,710 --> 00:40:23,650
positive to say that

1090
00:40:24,295 --> 00:40:26,554
Marxists in comparison to other historians

1091
00:40:27,094 --> 00:40:30,454
were interested in economic history, that they thought

1092
00:40:30,454 --> 00:40:33,255
economics is important. It's part of what drives

1093
00:40:33,255 --> 00:40:35,559
cultures and they are right about that. They

1094
00:40:35,559 --> 00:40:38,039
are wrong about all the specifics about what

1095
00:40:38,039 --> 00:40:41,099
is good economically and what is bad economically.

1096
00:40:41,405 --> 00:40:43,885
But that economics is important and it's important

1097
00:40:43,885 --> 00:40:45,984
to understanding history. It's

1098
00:40:46,445 --> 00:40:48,670
as what kind what's the contrast to that?

1099
00:40:48,750 --> 00:40:50,510
But the kind of contrast that where you

1100
00:40:50,510 --> 00:40:52,670
learn history and you learn about the kings

1101
00:40:52,670 --> 00:40:54,589
and queens and what they did and the

1102
00:40:54,589 --> 00:40:56,734
court intrigues and so on on. And there's

1103
00:40:56,734 --> 00:40:59,614
an element that that's interesting. It doesn't interest

1104
00:40:59,614 --> 00:41:01,375
me, but there's an element that that it

1105
00:41:01,375 --> 00:41:02,914
is significant historically,

1106
00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:05,820
But it's not what drives history

1107
00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:08,940
and that kind of perspective, it empties

1108
00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:12,505
what history is actually about, which is about,

1109
00:41:12,824 --> 00:41:14,025
and one of the ways Ayn Rand puts

1110
00:41:14,025 --> 00:41:15,484
it, it's about the producer.

1111
00:41:16,105 --> 00:41:18,184
It's and that that's why economics is so

1112
00:41:18,184 --> 00:41:19,704
important that and she one of the ways

1113
00:41:19,704 --> 00:41:21,539
she puts it, if you read the if

1114
00:41:21,539 --> 00:41:23,699
you were ambitious and read the for the

1115
00:41:23,699 --> 00:41:25,699
new intellectual which was I I said if

1116
00:41:25,699 --> 00:41:26,900
you're if you wanna do a lot of

1117
00:41:26,900 --> 00:41:28,279
reading for this, read that

1118
00:41:29,015 --> 00:41:31,414
because that's a grand scale perspective on the

1119
00:41:31,414 --> 00:41:33,594
role of intellectuals in history.

1120
00:41:34,215 --> 00:41:34,715
The

1121
00:41:35,094 --> 00:41:37,335
but the way Ayn Rand characterizes the producer

1122
00:41:37,335 --> 00:41:39,239
is the forgotten man of history.

1123
00:41:40,260 --> 00:41:43,079
And forgotten man means that he the producer,

1124
00:41:43,139 --> 00:41:44,679
the creator, the achievers

1125
00:41:45,139 --> 00:41:47,264
in the language of the fountainhead, the men

1126
00:41:47,264 --> 00:41:48,945
of ability or the men of the mind

1127
00:41:48,945 --> 00:41:51,184
in the language of Atlas Shrugged. They're the

1128
00:41:51,184 --> 00:41:52,244
ones who've produced

1129
00:41:52,784 --> 00:41:55,605
material and spiritual well-being. They're the creators

1130
00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:58,980
who advanced human life. They're the most significant

1131
00:41:59,199 --> 00:41:59,699
figure

1132
00:42:00,319 --> 00:42:01,059
in history.

1133
00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:04,659
They're forgotten because they're ignored, denied,

1134
00:42:05,275 --> 00:42:06,494
their role is,

1135
00:42:07,594 --> 00:42:10,074
they're exploiters, they made life worse and so

1136
00:42:10,074 --> 00:42:12,315
on. So like there was a real war

1137
00:42:12,315 --> 00:42:13,295
against the producers.

1138
00:42:13,940 --> 00:42:15,880
The Marxist historians

1139
00:42:16,260 --> 00:42:18,280
had a modicum of respect

1140
00:42:18,820 --> 00:42:19,639
for production

1141
00:42:20,019 --> 00:42:21,159
and for producers.

1142
00:42:21,594 --> 00:42:23,755
So and so that they could go into

1143
00:42:23,755 --> 00:42:26,655
history departments and so and people thought,

1144
00:42:27,035 --> 00:42:29,454
yeah, there's something interesting here. There was something

1145
00:42:29,515 --> 00:42:31,375
interesting there, but

1146
00:42:31,819 --> 00:42:34,219
they went into this and they went in

1147
00:42:34,219 --> 00:42:36,460
in the 100 and the 100 and the

1148
00:42:36,460 --> 00:42:39,359
100 and that's one field in history

1149
00:42:39,844 --> 00:42:41,605
and we need the same thing from the

1150
00:42:41,605 --> 00:42:44,264
perspective of objectivism. We need historians

1151
00:42:44,565 --> 00:42:45,385
in objectivism

1152
00:42:45,925 --> 00:42:48,570
who would go and look at all the

1153
00:42:48,570 --> 00:42:50,030
various periods of history

1154
00:42:50,410 --> 00:42:52,329
and how to think about them, how to

1155
00:42:52,329 --> 00:42:54,750
think about their developments, their changes

1156
00:42:55,494 --> 00:42:58,074
from the perspective of the objectivist philosophy,

1157
00:42:58,694 --> 00:43:01,835
which gives us massive role to the producer,

1158
00:43:02,134 --> 00:43:04,634
a massive role to the role of ideas

1159
00:43:04,829 --> 00:43:05,569
for positive

1160
00:43:05,869 --> 00:43:06,849
or for negative.

1161
00:43:08,109 --> 00:43:10,429
But if you ask, like, is is there

1162
00:43:10,429 --> 00:43:13,710
an objectivist historian who specializes in world war

1163
00:43:13,710 --> 00:43:16,065
2 or World War 1 and World War

1164
00:43:16,065 --> 00:43:19,184
2 because they're very linked. That period in

1165
00:43:19,184 --> 00:43:19,684
history,

1166
00:43:19,985 --> 00:43:21,045
there's not one.

1167
00:43:22,359 --> 00:43:24,359
And if you ask like for marxist, you

1168
00:43:24,359 --> 00:43:25,819
could find 10

1169
00:43:26,119 --> 00:43:28,280
and more than 10 you could find. And

1170
00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:29,099
that's what

1171
00:43:29,559 --> 00:43:30,844
in terms of the

1172
00:43:31,724 --> 00:43:32,224
spread

1173
00:43:32,605 --> 00:43:35,505
and achievement of positive ideas, that's what's required

1174
00:43:35,644 --> 00:43:38,125
and that's what's required in history is required

1175
00:43:38,125 --> 00:43:38,945
in economics,

1176
00:43:39,429 --> 00:43:40,250
in psychology,

1177
00:43:40,710 --> 00:43:43,610
in law. There's there's a tremendous

1178
00:43:44,070 --> 00:43:46,644
amount of work that needs to be done

1179
00:43:46,804 --> 00:43:48,724
in all these fields of what it looks

1180
00:43:48,724 --> 00:43:49,704
like to integrate

1181
00:43:50,164 --> 00:43:52,485
a philosophy and a new philosophy into the

1182
00:43:52,485 --> 00:43:52,985
fields.

1183
00:43:53,364 --> 00:43:55,650
And that's what the work and the, of

1184
00:43:55,650 --> 00:43:56,390
a professional

1185
00:43:56,769 --> 00:43:59,890
intellectual. That's what the work is and it's

1186
00:43:59,890 --> 00:44:01,590
really interesting work.

1187
00:44:02,375 --> 00:44:04,135
And that that's the last point I want

1188
00:44:04,135 --> 00:44:07,594
to make. It's really interesting work. So I,

1189
00:44:09,309 --> 00:44:10,530
I've got this reaction

1190
00:44:11,070 --> 00:44:11,570
often

1191
00:44:11,950 --> 00:44:12,450
from,

1192
00:44:14,269 --> 00:44:16,930
people who I think, like, don't they equate

1193
00:44:17,635 --> 00:44:18,295
a philosophy

1194
00:44:18,675 --> 00:44:19,574
with a religion.

1195
00:44:20,034 --> 00:44:22,214
So they equate philosophy with dogma.

1196
00:44:23,234 --> 00:44:23,734
And

1197
00:44:24,194 --> 00:44:25,335
they ask, like,

1198
00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:27,699
don't you find it stifling

1199
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:29,219
to be an objectivist?

1200
00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:30,500
Because

1201
00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:33,094
you're told what to think and what to

1202
00:44:33,094 --> 00:44:35,335
do. It's like you've been given 10 commandments.

1203
00:44:35,335 --> 00:44:37,175
It's not the 10 commandments of the bible,

1204
00:44:37,175 --> 00:44:39,494
it's the 10 commandments that supposedly come from

1205
00:44:39,494 --> 00:44:40,934
Ayn Rand and you're given that and now

1206
00:44:40,934 --> 00:44:42,980
you're supposed to live. Don't you find it

1207
00:44:42,980 --> 00:44:44,039
like a straight jacket?

1208
00:44:44,340 --> 00:44:46,500
And in that sense, religion is a straight

1209
00:44:46,500 --> 00:44:48,739
jacket. When you're given a list of 10

1210
00:44:48,739 --> 00:44:49,719
concrete commandments

1211
00:44:50,045 --> 00:44:51,644
that you're supposed to live, you don't really

1212
00:44:51,644 --> 00:44:53,244
have any idea why you're supposed to live

1213
00:44:53,244 --> 00:44:55,485
these, why these 10, aren't there other things

1214
00:44:55,485 --> 00:44:57,965
that are more important than the obey your

1215
00:44:57,965 --> 00:44:59,170
father and things like that,

1216
00:44:59,809 --> 00:45:00,309
and

1217
00:45:00,690 --> 00:45:03,010
like if you take the religion seriously, it's,

1218
00:45:03,010 --> 00:45:04,530
yeah, I'm not supposed to think about any

1219
00:45:04,530 --> 00:45:06,690
of that, not supposed to question any of

1220
00:45:06,690 --> 00:45:09,214
that. It's it is dogma and dogma is

1221
00:45:09,214 --> 00:45:11,694
a straight jacket. A philosophy is not a

1222
00:45:11,694 --> 00:45:12,514
straight jacket.

1223
00:45:12,815 --> 00:45:15,295
What it should do is illuminate the world,

1224
00:45:15,295 --> 00:45:17,460
not I've got to ignore all kinds of

1225
00:45:17,460 --> 00:45:19,219
things in the world because they don't fit

1226
00:45:19,219 --> 00:45:19,960
my preconceived

1227
00:45:20,420 --> 00:45:22,440
ideas that is they don't fit my dogma.

1228
00:45:23,125 --> 00:45:25,204
That's what happens to a dogmatist. It's part

1229
00:45:25,204 --> 00:45:26,264
of why they become

1230
00:45:26,724 --> 00:45:27,224
so,

1231
00:45:28,485 --> 00:45:29,784
defensive and negative.

1232
00:45:30,219 --> 00:45:32,779
It's because everything's a threat to them. Anything

1233
00:45:32,779 --> 00:45:34,779
that could expose their dogmas, well, you don't

1234
00:45:34,779 --> 00:45:37,279
really have reason for this. That's a threat

1235
00:45:37,659 --> 00:45:39,260
and so they don't want don't want to

1236
00:45:39,260 --> 00:45:41,905
push it aside. What a philosophy should do

1237
00:45:42,204 --> 00:45:45,025
and what objectivism should do is an eagerness

1238
00:45:45,244 --> 00:45:45,905
to embrace

1239
00:45:46,605 --> 00:45:48,844
the whole of the world to try to

1240
00:45:48,844 --> 00:45:51,150
understand it and that there's a lot to

1241
00:45:51,150 --> 00:45:53,950
understand and it takes all kinds of first

1242
00:45:53,950 --> 00:45:56,610
hand thinking. You can't there there's no,

1243
00:45:57,944 --> 00:46:00,664
algorithm, there's no deduction to go from this

1244
00:46:00,664 --> 00:46:02,045
is the philosophy of objectivism,

1245
00:46:02,344 --> 00:46:04,184
this is how to understand every period in

1246
00:46:04,184 --> 00:46:06,344
history. There's not there's nothing you can't what

1247
00:46:06,344 --> 00:46:09,210
you have to do is actually study the

1248
00:46:09,210 --> 00:46:10,349
historical periods

1249
00:46:10,809 --> 00:46:12,909
looked at from, like, if you think objectivism

1250
00:46:13,050 --> 00:46:15,630
is true, that knowledge should be guiding

1251
00:46:16,244 --> 00:46:16,824
the interpretation

1252
00:46:17,445 --> 00:46:18,265
and understanding

1253
00:46:18,885 --> 00:46:20,804
of it of like how to think about,

1254
00:46:21,045 --> 00:46:22,804
I I mean, I brought up the world

1255
00:46:22,804 --> 00:46:24,265
wars, because I'm,

1256
00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:27,960
out of some curiosity currently reading about them.

1257
00:46:27,960 --> 00:46:30,460
But it's what happened in the 19th century.

1258
00:46:30,519 --> 00:46:32,204
Ayn Rand views it, well, I think she's

1259
00:46:32,204 --> 00:46:34,125
right about this. It's the greatest century in

1260
00:46:34,125 --> 00:46:34,945
human history,

1261
00:46:35,485 --> 00:46:36,684
or at least you could say it's the

1262
00:46:36,684 --> 00:46:37,585
greatest century,

1263
00:46:39,325 --> 00:46:40,144
after Christ.

1264
00:46:41,480 --> 00:46:42,840
There's a way in which you might think

1265
00:46:42,840 --> 00:46:45,640
of ancient Greece as it's even greater than

1266
00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:47,320
the 19th century, but it's it's one of

1267
00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:49,655
those two periods I think or that in

1268
00:46:49,655 --> 00:46:51,114
terms of human development,

1269
00:46:51,894 --> 00:46:53,114
they're the greatest centuries.

1270
00:46:53,414 --> 00:46:55,114
What happened in the 19th century?

1271
00:46:56,710 --> 00:46:59,349
How did the the positive ideas spread? What

1272
00:46:59,349 --> 00:47:01,530
were those ideas that spread?

1273
00:47:03,590 --> 00:47:06,164
There's so much work that needs to be

1274
00:47:06,164 --> 00:47:09,224
done to understand that and to convey

1275
00:47:09,525 --> 00:47:11,525
it to other people. So part of the

1276
00:47:11,525 --> 00:47:14,390
what, the spread of a philosophy looks like

1277
00:47:14,449 --> 00:47:15,570
is it

1278
00:47:17,010 --> 00:47:18,769
so I'll put this as a way to

1279
00:47:18,769 --> 00:47:19,989
package the two points.

1280
00:47:22,664 --> 00:47:24,844
At a personal level, a philosophy

1281
00:47:25,224 --> 00:47:28,285
should look like it illuminates a person's life.

1282
00:47:28,664 --> 00:47:30,550
That illuminates it in the sense it

1283
00:47:31,110 --> 00:47:34,090
shines something on what's good about the person

1284
00:47:34,390 --> 00:47:35,769
and helps that grow.

1285
00:47:36,469 --> 00:47:38,730
That so that people think of objectivism,

1286
00:47:39,284 --> 00:47:41,925
yeah, like this person's better off because they've

1287
00:47:41,925 --> 00:47:42,425
discovered

1288
00:47:42,885 --> 00:47:44,885
some of Ayn Rand's ideas and are trying

1289
00:47:44,885 --> 00:47:48,030
to live those ideas That the more people

1290
00:47:48,030 --> 00:47:50,450
see that, the more the philosophy will spread.

1291
00:47:50,910 --> 00:47:52,610
And the more the philosophy

1292
00:47:53,309 --> 00:47:53,809
illuminates

1293
00:47:55,105 --> 00:47:56,164
the whole world

1294
00:47:56,625 --> 00:47:57,125
which

1295
00:47:57,425 --> 00:48:00,005
means the world of knowledge that it illuminates

1296
00:48:00,784 --> 00:48:01,284
history,

1297
00:48:01,744 --> 00:48:02,244
economics,

1298
00:48:02,630 --> 00:48:05,049
psychology and that people are doing the work

1299
00:48:05,349 --> 00:48:07,989
to show how it illuminates these things. That's

1300
00:48:07,989 --> 00:48:09,750
what the what it will look like for

1301
00:48:09,750 --> 00:48:12,464
the philosophy to spread much more widely. That's

1302
00:48:12,464 --> 00:48:13,684
the work of professional

1303
00:48:14,385 --> 00:48:14,885
intellectuals

1304
00:48:15,264 --> 00:48:18,385
and it's really, really interesting work. I mean,

1305
00:48:18,385 --> 00:48:20,704
I feel like I learn something new every

1306
00:48:20,704 --> 00:48:22,849
day in terms of thinking about the philosophy

1307
00:48:22,849 --> 00:48:25,809
and thinking about its application and role in

1308
00:48:25,809 --> 00:48:28,690
the world and it's new thinking. It's not

1309
00:48:28,690 --> 00:48:29,190
dogma.

1310
00:48:29,505 --> 00:48:31,364
It's not taking 10 commandments

1311
00:48:31,664 --> 00:48:33,664
and trying to fit everything into them. It's

1312
00:48:33,664 --> 00:48:36,085
thinking about the world from the perspective

1313
00:48:36,690 --> 00:48:37,429
of philosophical

1314
00:48:37,730 --> 00:48:39,750
ideas that one thinks are true.

1315
00:48:40,130 --> 00:48:42,849
And it is so that like that's part

1316
00:48:42,849 --> 00:48:43,510
of how

1317
00:48:43,974 --> 00:48:46,614
at ARI we think of what it means

1318
00:48:46,614 --> 00:48:49,355
for a philosophy and for objectivism to spread

1319
00:48:49,494 --> 00:48:51,255
and it's so it's why we're so interested

1320
00:48:51,255 --> 00:48:53,780
in these two things of that. There's more

1321
00:48:53,780 --> 00:48:56,440
objectivist in the world who will talk openly

1322
00:48:56,739 --> 00:48:58,519
about the positive role of objectivism

1323
00:48:58,820 --> 00:49:01,085
in their lives and there's a more objectivist

1324
00:49:01,385 --> 00:49:01,885
intellectuals

1325
00:49:02,744 --> 00:49:05,144
who will do the work necessary, that it

1326
00:49:05,224 --> 00:49:07,949
it's necessary. It's not sufficient. There's other things

1327
00:49:07,949 --> 00:49:09,489
that have to happen, but it's necessary

1328
00:49:10,109 --> 00:49:12,750
for the spread of the philosophy. And unless

1329
00:49:12,750 --> 00:49:13,069
there's

1330
00:49:13,630 --> 00:49:14,849
we're getting this

1331
00:49:15,454 --> 00:49:16,835
increasingly at scale,

1332
00:49:17,295 --> 00:49:20,414
the philosophy won't propagate. That is it won't

1333
00:49:20,414 --> 00:49:21,795
have a worldwide

1334
00:49:22,494 --> 00:49:22,994
influence.

1335
00:49:23,319 --> 00:49:25,880
And so the the founding of ARU and

1336
00:49:25,880 --> 00:49:27,659
why we're so interested in education

1337
00:49:28,119 --> 00:49:30,139
is you both have to know

1338
00:49:30,519 --> 00:49:31,019
the

1339
00:49:31,644 --> 00:49:34,445
role the ideas to really apply them in

1340
00:49:34,445 --> 00:49:36,445
your own lives. You have to really understand

1341
00:49:36,445 --> 00:49:38,864
them. That's again something Ayn Rand is emphasizing

1342
00:49:38,925 --> 00:49:41,469
in what can one do. And then at

1343
00:49:41,469 --> 00:49:44,190
the role of professional intellectual, you really have

1344
00:49:44,190 --> 00:49:46,429
to understand these ideas and you have to

1345
00:49:46,429 --> 00:49:48,510
understand the other ways of looking at the

1346
00:49:48,510 --> 00:49:49,010
world,

1347
00:49:49,485 --> 00:49:51,965
what's right or plausible about them and what's

1348
00:49:51,965 --> 00:49:53,985
wrong. So I brought something up for marxism,

1349
00:49:54,045 --> 00:49:56,925
like there's something very right in its emphasis

1350
00:49:56,925 --> 00:49:57,744
on economics

1351
00:49:58,050 --> 00:50:00,690
and that history had ignored that. And then

1352
00:50:00,690 --> 00:50:02,690
there's something very wrong in the way it

1353
00:50:02,690 --> 00:50:05,349
thinks about the essence of what drives economics.

1354
00:50:05,695 --> 00:50:07,295
It's a labor theory of value. I mean,

1355
00:50:07,295 --> 00:50:09,934
there's so much wrong in the details, but

1356
00:50:09,934 --> 00:50:11,934
through the work of a professional intellectuals to

1357
00:50:11,934 --> 00:50:14,190
be able to see both of those, to

1358
00:50:14,190 --> 00:50:16,670
be able to talk about them, and so

1359
00:50:16,670 --> 00:50:19,250
to be able to illuminate the world

1360
00:50:19,630 --> 00:50:20,849
for other people.

1361
00:50:22,144 --> 00:50:23,744
Okay. Well, I I think we have about

1362
00:50:23,744 --> 00:50:25,525
10 minutes left, so let me stop here.

1363
00:50:25,585 --> 00:50:27,184
Those are the basic points I wanted to

1364
00:50:27,184 --> 00:50:28,484
make. We'll open it up,

1365
00:50:28,920 --> 00:50:31,559
for questions or comments. But the if you've

1366
00:50:31,559 --> 00:50:33,400
seen from the schedule, there's a lot of

1367
00:50:33,400 --> 00:50:33,900
opportunity

1368
00:50:34,760 --> 00:50:35,500
to ask,

1369
00:50:35,960 --> 00:50:39,175
questions. So certainly don't if there's something that

1370
00:50:39,235 --> 00:50:41,155
that you're thinking about in regard to what

1371
00:50:41,155 --> 00:50:43,315
I've said and you don't have time to

1372
00:50:43,315 --> 00:50:45,554
ask it now, certainly feel free to ask

1373
00:50:45,554 --> 00:50:46,054
it

1374
00:50:46,549 --> 00:50:48,389
formally or informally in the rest of the

1375
00:50:48,389 --> 00:50:50,489
conference. Okay. So thank you. And

1376
00:50:55,114 --> 00:50:56,875
And this is the mic we are using

1377
00:50:56,875 --> 00:50:58,655
for questions, comments.

1378
00:51:00,875 --> 00:51:02,494
Do you want to come to the mic?

1379
00:51:16,454 --> 00:51:17,434
Test test.

1380
00:51:17,735 --> 00:51:19,114
Yep. I think it works. Oh,

1381
00:51:21,530 --> 00:51:22,829
yeah. Oh, yeah.

1382
00:51:23,210 --> 00:51:23,710
Yeah.

1383
00:51:24,410 --> 00:51:24,910
Alright.

1384
00:51:25,610 --> 00:51:28,030
Yeah. First, thank you for the the splendid

1385
00:51:28,410 --> 00:51:28,910
talk.

1386
00:51:30,164 --> 00:51:32,025
You talked a bit about,

1387
00:51:32,485 --> 00:51:34,905
that you think it's too soon for

1388
00:51:35,445 --> 00:51:36,905
an organized movement

1389
00:51:37,285 --> 00:51:38,664
or organized action.

1390
00:51:40,069 --> 00:51:40,969
Well, I'm currently

1391
00:51:41,269 --> 00:51:41,769
working,

1392
00:51:42,309 --> 00:51:44,010
on the Dutch Libertarian Party.

1393
00:51:44,469 --> 00:51:46,389
And, a question that I have for you

1394
00:51:46,389 --> 00:51:46,889
is,

1395
00:51:47,635 --> 00:51:49,875
don't you think that, well, ideas would,

1396
00:51:54,114 --> 00:51:55,734
well, take way more traction,

1397
00:51:56,114 --> 00:51:58,920
in a society when they are organized in

1398
00:51:58,920 --> 00:51:59,500
a movement.

1399
00:52:00,440 --> 00:52:01,579
Okay. So

1400
00:52:02,519 --> 00:52:04,860
an organized movement here means

1401
00:52:07,444 --> 00:52:07,944
organized

1402
00:52:08,484 --> 00:52:08,984
objectivist.

1403
00:52:10,644 --> 00:52:12,744
Not any form of organization.

1404
00:52:13,045 --> 00:52:15,545
They don't have any form of organization including

1405
00:52:15,605 --> 00:52:16,105
political

1406
00:52:16,690 --> 00:52:20,050
organization, political party. I think there's ample reason

1407
00:52:20,050 --> 00:52:21,890
to do that. I mean, you can view

1408
00:52:21,890 --> 00:52:23,349
ARI as it's an organization,

1409
00:52:24,344 --> 00:52:25,724
and we are organizing

1410
00:52:26,105 --> 00:52:27,784
people in that sense. I mean, we have

1411
00:52:27,784 --> 00:52:31,065
conferences, we have a classrooms and education, all

1412
00:52:31,065 --> 00:52:32,605
that's organized formal.

1413
00:52:33,219 --> 00:52:34,599
So the point is not that,

1414
00:52:35,059 --> 00:52:36,360
the point is as

1415
00:52:36,820 --> 00:52:39,159
a organized objective as movement and even

1416
00:52:39,940 --> 00:52:41,699
in the way that of thinking of other

1417
00:52:41,699 --> 00:52:45,054
intellectual movements, it's too soon for that because

1418
00:52:45,054 --> 00:52:47,214
I think there's still too few people. And

1419
00:52:47,214 --> 00:52:50,755
even that, it doesn't mean one like everybody

1420
00:52:50,974 --> 00:52:51,474
organized

1421
00:52:51,849 --> 00:52:53,369
in one movement and if you look at

1422
00:52:53,369 --> 00:52:54,989
other movements, that's not how

1423
00:52:55,449 --> 00:52:55,949
they,

1424
00:52:56,730 --> 00:52:58,329
what they actually are. If you look at

1425
00:52:58,329 --> 00:53:00,445
the abolition movement, It's not like there is

1426
00:53:00,445 --> 00:53:00,945
one

1427
00:53:01,885 --> 00:53:04,845
organization and everyone revolves around it and so

1428
00:53:04,845 --> 00:53:07,244
on. There was various forms of organization but

1429
00:53:07,244 --> 00:53:08,785
that you look at it

1430
00:53:09,160 --> 00:53:10,460
from a kind of historical

1431
00:53:11,000 --> 00:53:13,660
perspective and think there was an abolition movement,

1432
00:53:14,360 --> 00:53:16,140
is there was enough people

1433
00:53:16,445 --> 00:53:19,405
who were interested in and advocating for abolition

1434
00:53:19,405 --> 00:53:21,724
that you could think of it as now

1435
00:53:21,724 --> 00:53:22,224
organizing

1436
00:53:22,764 --> 00:53:24,224
into a movement or movements.

1437
00:53:25,480 --> 00:53:27,400
So that's the issue. But the issue of

1438
00:53:27,400 --> 00:53:29,320
a political, I want to say something, I

1439
00:53:29,320 --> 00:53:31,559
cut that from the talk, but it's something

1440
00:53:31,559 --> 00:53:33,179
important because people take

1441
00:53:34,655 --> 00:53:36,195
I think a wrong lesson

1442
00:53:37,375 --> 00:53:39,954
from objectivism and from Ayn Rand, which is

1443
00:53:40,094 --> 00:53:42,114
it's too soon for political

1444
00:53:43,039 --> 00:53:43,619
action, political

1445
00:53:44,480 --> 00:53:44,980
organization.

1446
00:53:46,800 --> 00:53:48,900
Ayn Rand was very interested in politics.

1447
00:53:49,359 --> 00:53:51,945
In politics at the level of the candidates

1448
00:53:52,005 --> 00:53:54,405
running for office, who one should vote for

1449
00:53:54,405 --> 00:53:55,224
and so on.

1450
00:53:56,244 --> 00:53:56,744
So

1451
00:53:57,045 --> 00:53:58,425
just from her own

1452
00:53:59,039 --> 00:53:59,619
kind of writing

1453
00:53:59,920 --> 00:54:02,159
experience, I don't think one can take don't

1454
00:54:02,159 --> 00:54:03,539
be interested in politics.

1455
00:54:04,239 --> 00:54:05,940
I think the caution is,

1456
00:54:06,444 --> 00:54:08,924
don't think that politics can do more than

1457
00:54:08,924 --> 00:54:11,105
what it can do. So be realistic

1458
00:54:11,565 --> 00:54:15,250
about one's entry into politics and particularly in

1459
00:54:15,250 --> 00:54:17,030
this regard of when youre radicals,

1460
00:54:17,650 --> 00:54:18,390
of thinking,

1461
00:54:19,329 --> 00:54:21,429
Am I going to enter into politics

1462
00:54:21,864 --> 00:54:24,924
and dilute and water down my ideas?

1463
00:54:25,944 --> 00:54:28,204
And that so what organization

1464
00:54:28,505 --> 00:54:30,809
looks like, I'm dubious that you can have

1465
00:54:30,809 --> 00:54:31,309
organization

1466
00:54:31,849 --> 00:54:34,670
yet at the level of political parties

1467
00:54:35,130 --> 00:54:37,869
that do but in a parliamentary system,

1468
00:54:38,250 --> 00:54:40,114
in the Dutch kind of system, there's more

1469
00:54:40,114 --> 00:54:42,035
reason to think a small party can have

1470
00:54:42,035 --> 00:54:44,275
some kind of impact than say in the

1471
00:54:44,275 --> 00:54:44,775
US.

1472
00:54:45,075 --> 00:54:47,315
But if you take the US example and

1473
00:54:47,315 --> 00:54:49,494
the abolitionists are again a good example,

1474
00:54:49,840 --> 00:54:51,860
they were interested in

1475
00:54:52,480 --> 00:54:53,699
impacting politics

1476
00:54:54,079 --> 00:54:56,900
but that didn't mean running a presidential candidate

1477
00:54:57,275 --> 00:54:58,555
because they had a view of what I

1478
00:54:58,555 --> 00:55:00,255
think right, no presidential

1479
00:55:00,555 --> 00:55:02,974
candidate running on a platform of abolition

1480
00:55:03,275 --> 00:55:05,375
would get elected and that includes Lincoln.

1481
00:55:06,210 --> 00:55:07,969
He was not an abolitionist and that but

1482
00:55:07,969 --> 00:55:09,909
they were interested in having an impact

1483
00:55:10,289 --> 00:55:10,949
on Lincoln

1484
00:55:11,250 --> 00:55:12,849
and seeing if they can make him better

1485
00:55:12,849 --> 00:55:14,529
than he actually was and I think when

1486
00:55:14,529 --> 00:55:16,344
you look at the relationship of some of

1487
00:55:16,344 --> 00:55:18,905
the abolitionists to Lincoln, that's part of what

1488
00:55:18,905 --> 00:55:20,605
happened. That's been politically

1489
00:55:20,905 --> 00:55:22,364
active, but being realistic

1490
00:55:22,910 --> 00:55:25,090
that if we had a political party,

1491
00:55:25,390 --> 00:55:27,230
what we would be doing to try to

1492
00:55:27,230 --> 00:55:29,869
get votes is we would end up watering

1493
00:55:29,869 --> 00:55:32,635
down and diluting our message, which our message

1494
00:55:32,635 --> 00:55:33,135
is

1495
00:55:33,515 --> 00:55:36,094
slavery is an abomination and should be abolished,

1496
00:55:36,474 --> 00:55:39,114
not don't let it spread to other states,

1497
00:55:39,114 --> 00:55:41,989
it should be abolished, and entering into politics

1498
00:55:41,989 --> 00:55:44,650
in one kind of way, you could completely

1499
00:55:44,710 --> 00:55:47,429
destroy your message. But you could what you're

1500
00:55:47,429 --> 00:55:49,190
trying to figure out is ways to do

1501
00:55:49,190 --> 00:55:51,255
it in a way that you are preserving

1502
00:55:51,315 --> 00:55:52,454
your actual ideas

1503
00:55:52,835 --> 00:55:55,235
and ideals. And I don't think from that

1504
00:55:55,235 --> 00:55:58,469
perspective, the message from objectivism is, it's impossible

1505
00:55:58,469 --> 00:55:59,909
to do that. I think it's very the

1506
00:55:59,909 --> 00:56:02,409
message is it's very hard to do that.

1507
00:56:03,030 --> 00:56:05,589
So it's it's it's so there's no kind

1508
00:56:05,589 --> 00:56:06,394
of thing that

1509
00:56:06,875 --> 00:56:09,994
organization at that kind of level is too

1510
00:56:09,994 --> 00:56:11,994
soon or impossible to do, but you have

1511
00:56:11,994 --> 00:56:13,355
to think a lot about how to do

1512
00:56:13,355 --> 00:56:15,389
it that you think it will have an

1513
00:56:15,389 --> 00:56:16,769
actual positive impact.

1514
00:56:17,789 --> 00:56:20,190
Yeah. Thank you. I I also think that

1515
00:56:20,190 --> 00:56:21,949
it's, well, hard to do it, like you

1516
00:56:21,949 --> 00:56:24,974
said. And, to be clear, I'm against watering

1517
00:56:24,974 --> 00:56:25,474
down.

1518
00:56:26,255 --> 00:56:28,195
Uh-huh. Yeah. I know. Yeah. And well,

1519
00:56:28,655 --> 00:56:31,375
to I also think that, good ideas or

1520
00:56:31,375 --> 00:56:34,239
great ideas start with well, the individual

1521
00:56:34,539 --> 00:56:36,079
start with a small minority.

1522
00:56:36,619 --> 00:56:39,500
And, well, it's an open question for anyone

1523
00:56:39,500 --> 00:56:41,180
actually who wants to,

1524
00:56:42,125 --> 00:56:44,444
during the whole event, extend the discussion how

1525
00:56:44,444 --> 00:56:44,944
to,

1526
00:56:45,405 --> 00:56:47,344
gain more traction for such ideas.

1527
00:56:47,644 --> 00:56:50,204
It's an open invitation. But, thank you for

1528
00:56:50,204 --> 00:56:52,639
the answer. Sure. Thanks. One more question. Okay.

1529
00:56:52,639 --> 00:56:55,199
And one minute question. Okay. Okay. That's enough.

1530
00:56:55,199 --> 00:56:55,699
Alright.

1531
00:56:56,639 --> 00:56:58,079
Thank you for the talk. Like, many of

1532
00:56:58,079 --> 00:57:01,054
these things resonate, and I personally really benefited

1533
00:57:01,114 --> 00:57:03,515
from the moral case for finance. Uh-huh. So

1534
00:57:03,515 --> 00:57:05,054
it it really does work.

1535
00:57:05,675 --> 00:57:07,755
I think sometimes part of the mistake is

1536
00:57:07,755 --> 00:57:08,574
when people,

1537
00:57:09,519 --> 00:57:12,719
like, invalidate someone's experiences or the real problems.

1538
00:57:12,719 --> 00:57:13,380
Like, people,

1539
00:57:13,679 --> 00:57:16,179
you know, flag real problems with, say, unemployment

1540
00:57:16,400 --> 00:57:18,420
or gap or factories moving out,

1541
00:57:18,744 --> 00:57:20,844
but they proposed the completely wrong solutions.

1542
00:57:21,224 --> 00:57:23,304
Right? So I think where the objective is

1543
00:57:23,384 --> 00:57:26,050
comes in is actually being clearly precise and

1544
00:57:26,050 --> 00:57:28,130
really going into detail. It's like, look. Yes.

1545
00:57:28,130 --> 00:57:30,369
That really is ridiculous, but I'm not saying

1546
00:57:30,369 --> 00:57:33,170
that. I'm saying this. Right? And you you

1547
00:57:33,170 --> 00:57:35,954
can see the difference between, let's say, GFC

1548
00:57:36,175 --> 00:57:38,335
and BB and T's approach and Jim Allison.

1549
00:57:38,335 --> 00:57:40,094
Right? And he said, no. I'm not going

1550
00:57:40,094 --> 00:57:42,099
into that. I'm not going to sell these

1551
00:57:42,099 --> 00:57:44,339
products I don't believe in. And really making

1552
00:57:44,339 --> 00:57:45,000
a case

1553
00:57:45,380 --> 00:57:47,859
versus, you know, like, other people just took

1554
00:57:47,859 --> 00:57:49,824
advantage, kind of run with it, and they

1555
00:57:49,824 --> 00:57:52,065
were rightly denounced, like, you know, kind of

1556
00:57:52,144 --> 00:57:54,565
it's it's there is nothing there to defend.

1557
00:57:55,984 --> 00:57:56,884
So I think,

1558
00:57:57,559 --> 00:57:58,539
being really philosophical

1559
00:57:58,840 --> 00:58:00,139
and deep and precise

1560
00:58:00,440 --> 00:58:02,679
makes the case stronger. It's it might be

1561
00:58:02,679 --> 00:58:04,039
more of a comment, but I want to

1562
00:58:04,039 --> 00:58:07,035
focus on, you know, the mistake of, you

1563
00:58:07,035 --> 00:58:08,875
know, kind of, oh, the capitalists is always

1564
00:58:08,875 --> 00:58:11,355
right. Everything the, you know, the companies do

1565
00:58:11,355 --> 00:58:13,755
is always right. It often really isn't. Like,

1566
00:58:13,755 --> 00:58:14,119
that's

1567
00:58:14,760 --> 00:58:17,000
Yeah. That's certainly true. And you're what so

1568
00:58:17,000 --> 00:58:18,680
you brought up the BB and T example.

1569
00:58:18,680 --> 00:58:21,000
So for people that don't know, the BB

1570
00:58:21,000 --> 00:58:23,579
and T, what is a, what what was,

1571
00:58:23,954 --> 00:58:25,414
it's merged was

1572
00:58:25,954 --> 00:58:28,835
a major bank that was for many years

1573
00:58:28,835 --> 00:58:31,175
led by the CEO John Allison

1574
00:58:31,579 --> 00:58:33,839
who was or in his an objectivist.

1575
00:58:34,139 --> 00:58:36,699
He is on Ayn Rand Institute's Board of

1576
00:58:36,699 --> 00:58:39,420
Directors. And he spoke openly about his interest

1577
00:58:39,420 --> 00:58:41,215
in Ayn Rand and Objectivism.

1578
00:58:42,075 --> 00:58:44,235
The, the episode you were referring to was

1579
00:58:44,235 --> 00:58:46,394
about, if I if it was this is

1580
00:58:46,394 --> 00:58:49,114
about eminent domain where and and the that

1581
00:58:49,114 --> 00:58:51,389
he wasn't so the oh well that's one

1582
00:58:51,389 --> 00:58:53,630
example I will use that example of where

1583
00:58:53,630 --> 00:58:56,109
he spoke. So eminent domain is the government

1584
00:58:56,109 --> 00:58:56,609
seizes

1585
00:58:57,184 --> 00:58:59,684
people's private property, give some compensation

1586
00:59:00,385 --> 00:59:02,784
and then use it for government purposes. And

1587
00:59:02,784 --> 00:59:04,464
in the US, it was being more and

1588
00:59:04,464 --> 00:59:05,949
more used to

1589
00:59:06,329 --> 00:59:08,969
give, to take from some private individuals and

1590
00:59:08,969 --> 00:59:11,150
give to other private individuals.

1591
00:59:11,449 --> 00:59:13,905
And he said that the banks not going

1592
00:59:13,905 --> 00:59:14,864
to do that, we are not going to

1593
00:59:14,864 --> 00:59:15,364
participate

1594
00:59:15,905 --> 00:59:16,405
in,

1595
00:59:18,465 --> 00:59:20,545
companies doing this, who are going to the

1596
00:59:20,545 --> 00:59:22,900
government to try to use their power of

1597
00:59:22,900 --> 00:59:25,940
eminent domain to take property from competitors and

1598
00:59:25,940 --> 00:59:28,420
take it for their own good. But the

1599
00:59:28,420 --> 00:59:30,840
and he did that and he won support

1600
00:59:30,954 --> 00:59:33,215
in regard to that. But I think it's

1601
00:59:33,355 --> 00:59:36,014
he was able to do that in part

1602
00:59:36,235 --> 00:59:38,175
because he emphasized the positive

1603
00:59:38,769 --> 00:59:41,510
that what we what we are in banking

1604
00:59:41,650 --> 00:59:44,849
is we establish win win relationship. What we

1605
00:59:44,849 --> 00:59:47,170
are trying to do is benefit our clients

1606
00:59:47,170 --> 00:59:48,385
and over the long

1607
00:59:48,784 --> 00:59:51,025
term, it's not we make money and our

1608
00:59:51,025 --> 00:59:52,945
clients are losing, we are all making money

1609
00:59:52,945 --> 00:59:55,940
together. And what this eminent domain, what it

1610
00:59:55,940 --> 00:59:58,260
does is it pits 1 person against the

1611
00:59:58,260 --> 01:00:00,199
other and it makes one the victim.

1612
01:00:00,659 --> 01:00:01,800
And so and that that gets

1613
01:00:02,260 --> 01:00:04,644
antithetical to business. It's what or if the

1614
01:00:04,644 --> 01:00:06,904
bank is about. It's against capitalism.

1615
01:00:07,364 --> 01:00:09,764
But it's making that positive case that that

1616
01:00:09,764 --> 01:00:12,219
I that that I think is why the

1617
01:00:12,460 --> 01:00:14,380
and relating to what I was emphasizing in

1618
01:00:14,380 --> 01:00:16,139
the lecture, that's what I think one has

1619
01:00:16,139 --> 01:00:17,980
to do. It's a good what business is

1620
01:00:17,980 --> 01:00:20,539
about and he talks often about this. It's

1621
01:00:20,539 --> 01:00:21,920
a win win relationship.

1622
01:00:22,385 --> 01:00:24,704
And what the eminent domain is doing is

1623
01:00:24,704 --> 01:00:26,784
making it seem like what business is, is

1624
01:00:26,784 --> 01:00:29,344
a win lose relationship. Some people win, other

1625
01:00:29,344 --> 01:00:31,539
people lose and that will destroy business, it

1626
01:00:31,539 --> 01:00:32,599
will turn people against

1627
01:00:32,900 --> 01:00:35,059
business, rightly so, if that's what they think.

1628
01:00:35,059 --> 01:00:37,719
Like if they think business inherently creates victims,

1629
01:00:38,085 --> 01:00:39,724
well, then let's get rid of it. And

1630
01:00:39,844 --> 01:00:43,125
but it's making the what business actually is

1631
01:00:43,125 --> 01:00:44,184
making that positive.

1632
01:00:44,484 --> 01:00:46,904
That's the important thing. And that is something,

1633
01:00:47,019 --> 01:00:48,880
again that Objectivism can clarify,

1634
01:00:49,900 --> 01:00:51,280
that it is, yeah,

1635
01:00:51,659 --> 01:00:53,920
it is about the profit motive and selfishness

1636
01:00:54,219 --> 01:00:56,414
and that's something good, not something bad.

1637
01:00:57,054 --> 01:00:59,315
Thank you. Sure. Thank you. Okay. Thanks.

1638
01:01:01,855 --> 01:01:03,820
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1639
01:01:03,900 --> 01:01:04,960
Institute Live podcast.

1640
01:01:05,739 --> 01:01:08,380
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1641
01:01:08,380 --> 01:01:09,760
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