Hello,
and welcome to the ventures an earning podcast
where we analyze, explore and celebrate the creative
journey. My name is Julie Bay Ann Bowser,
and I am a working artist living outside
of Boston. I've been hosting this podcast with
my super special c host and my mom.
Eileen lean Shu Since 2012
Hi, mom.
I wanna really?
So if you want to develop a strong
and thriving our practice. I hope you'll check
it out my art practice dot com. My
art practice dot com is a monthly membership
site with a robust community and tons of
great art content at your fingertips. Day or
night.
I asked people on the message were recently
about what they were most looking to get
out of my our practice, and, remember,
Molly said
I'm looking forward to all of it. There's
so much here community, learning, techniques, guess artist
art movements and discovery, practice lessons. There's are
such a wealth of material, and I am
excited to dig through all of it. Thank
you for setting up the space julie. It's
dutch definitely worth the money. I have so
many ideas after working through half of the
passion and purpose section. I'll have to sit
down, organize my thoughts and ideas. I probably
have enough inspiration perfectly 5 years worth of
work, if not more.
I recently purchased your carb December workbook and
I'm gonna start 1 for each of my
ideas and themes, so I'm set up to
move forward when I'm am ready. The tricky
part is deciding which inspiration to pursue first.
I thought that was a great comment and
really got at, hey how much there is
in the my art practice dot com,
classroom and online site. So don't wait
get on the waitlist list at my r
practice dot com and be the first to
know when the doors open in August for
cycle 2.
The focus of cycle 2 is gonna be
on iteration. Otherwise known 1 is working on
a or working in a series. So I'm
super excited about it. Now today's episode is
a little bit of a surprise. I usually
give mom a, Pdf before
the show so she can know what it
is. Talking about and today she's going in
blind just like the old days.
So the reason that I need today, a
blind podcast is because I knew she would
never agree to it.
Well I haven't agreed to it. So this
is episode 01:60
to called why Do you host this podcast
with your mom?
Oh, why.
Okay. So it's it's too it's a light
version of what I've threatened you with before,
which is a podcast all about you. And
I ask you. Is it?
Why do you host this podcast with your
mom
or why do you host this podcast
with your mom? In other words,
Is it why I'm the other host?
Yeah. It's why you are so important to
the incredible...
And undeniable success of the show. A wisdom
up that comes out as we do again
just comes flying out of your mouth at
every moment, it's very exciting,
So I've organized the podcast
into into sections to warm mom up for
when she'll tell us all her childhood with
secrets and bed wedding stories.
And we begin with the spark or the
origin story really of the podcast and how
that came out, then we go into sort
of challenges of learning and growth that we've
had a little bit of the behind the
scenes of making the podcast.
Then we go into the mom sections question.
I'm saying that with very threatening face right
now, and she's looking very coy.
And then, finally, we get to sort of
the evolution of the podcast and then, talk
a little bit about sort of any future
plans and aspirations. Right So let's make begin
easy and say, do you remember when I
told you that I wanted to do a
podcast?
Long ago. Mh. I might think at all.
But
as with most of your ideas that involve
a change.
I always start out by saying, oh, no.
Not me, that won't work.
Are you sure
why are we doing this? Yes. Yeah. Yes.
So,
back in 2012,
if you can get in your time machine
with me.
It was a time when podcasts were not
that common.
Like, there were podcasts,
but,
it... There weren't a lot of, like, podcasts
plugins or easy ways to do it. So
you had to have a lot of technical
knowledge, which was something of a barrier.
People were using, like, sound mixing boards and
serious audio equipment, and
even, like, listening to a podcast. Like, it's
not like you you could... It was super
easy. Like, you had to... There's, like, what
sort of, like, different ways you had to
do it. Anyway, all that is to say,
I went this... Huge blogging conference. And I
just got exposed
to a lot of different ideas about blogging,
and there was AAA
breakout session bell podcasts.
And I was sort of fascinated by this
idea because if there's 1 thing I can
do to it's talk.
And I thought... That's her secret power. It's
your secret superpower act actually. I don't think
it's secret though.
But there's... You know, it was 1 of
those things where I was like, wow, something
where you can just, like, talk. That sounds
amazing.
And I still remember there was a woman
there who had a...
I don't think it was Barn themed It
was... But it was somehow animal themed and
it has... Converted into my head and Barn
came game because she demonstrated how she, like,
played animal noises and talked and how she
mixed it all I was very intrigued. And
so after that, I did some research, and
I found a guy who coached people in
how to start podcasts. That was his whole
business.
And So I hired him. And he took
me through, like, all the equipment that you
needed to do, and I told mom who
said she wasn't gonna do it, and I
told her she was. And then she said
she absolutely wasn't gonna do it, and then
I told her she was, and then we
had a podcast.
And you know, my original
vision
of this. The reason I called it adventures
and earning
is at, at the time, and I... I
believe I still have, but was the idea
of that there are many
different
sort of,
kinds of artists, which is why we've had
as guests,
people who are singers, people who are bot
us, people who are you know,
do things that are,
outside of just visual art. I would say
the last, like,
5 years it has turned much more primarily
over individual art as opposed to the wide
wide variety of art, but that was the
original
intention.
And
I had also been a guest on there
was a scrapbook booking podcast
back in the day. And I have been
a guest on that podcast, and I had
found
that to be very intriguing and their model
was to have it was called paper clipping
round table,
and their model was to have likes, 3
guests maybe who talked all on some certain
topic.
And so because of that, I immediately was
like, oh, a podcast has guests. And to
be fair that was the format for most
podcasts at the time. And so we booked
a lot of guests as you'll recall, like,
almost every single episode was an interview with
a guest.
And and then I... My recollection of it,
although it could be hazy because it is
how many years ago is it?
2000 my math is terrible.
12 years.
So 12 years ago was that
you know, we've tried all sorts of different
segments. We've done, like, favorite things or
recommendation or what what's a supplier using or
You know what I mean? Any sort of
thing we've tried. So we've tried to kinda,
like, the segment idea and it never really
worked for us. We've been very,
I don't know. I tenant
with the podcast.
Until recently, it's, like, sometimes it was worth
the month, and it was once every other
week that it was once a... A year
that was
once... And I think we've managed to do
a podcast in every single year since 2012.
But I'm not sure that we quite managed
to keep up with the regular of it.
I did find out that you are in
the top 1 percent, of podcast
if you make it past 21 episodes.
Yeah. Which I thought was pretty amazing. So
apparently, there are, like, 2000000
podcasts or something that people have started.
And, basically, there are 20000
that have made it past 21 episode. Because
the fact is, like, you're not getting rich.
It is a technical barrier.
Podcast podcasts. There are certain people I talked
to who are like, I don't do podcasts.
So the same... Which is so funny to
me because it's the same way that, like,
if I said like, oh,
I don't read books.
I feel like there'd be a lot of
judgment. Like, who just says books are stupid
books are not for me. Like, I don't
know. I think that that's a bit... That's
a... There's a big leap in my opinion.
And so the same thing for me is
true at podcasts. Like, you may not like
podcasts, and I think that's fair to say.
But, like, I don't do podcast podcasts. I
never... That always seems to me like, a
very...
Anyway, that's a whole other conversation that we
don't have because obviously, you are listening to
a podcast. Why do you need to hear
me say this?
Okay. So that was kind of like, my
memory of the origin story. Do you remember
anything else?
No. But I remember that loan you have
guests, it makes the scheduling so difficult.
Mh.
Right. Because recording 83 people's
schedules that point. We're trying to get the
guest and you and me and figure it
out. 1 of the things that we started
doing to make the podcast more regular
in this in 20 24, which I'm very
proud we've put out a podcast every single
week in 20 24, and it's it's, you
know, this is this episode will be out
in July.
Is that we've now made a regular date
that we schedule it on. And so course
we on that regular date today. Right? With
some... Because that's the other good thing. When
you only can me as your guest You
could just shove me around and say, oh,
I'm not doing it then. And I'm doing
it another time.
And I just obedient shuffle along to the
appointed
appointed time in place.
Yeah. To be fair though, we generally do
do it on Wednesdays of 4 these days.
And that has been working in terms of
keeping it regularly. Like, that there's just there's
an appointment in the calendar, and if we
have to move it, we move it. I
mean, this is the thing that I see
in my art clients too, which is, like,
if you're doing a hundred day project or
daily project or carb December or anything that
involves, like, having to show up every day,
you can't make
whatever the task is so draco corny
that it's hard to keep up with. You
have to make it flexible and easy and
understand that, like,
you know, it could be as simple as
I resolve that I will do something art
related.
For 10 minutes every day. And then even
if you're in,
you know, I don't know 10 bucks 2,
you know, or stuck in a submarine like
you can find a way to do something
for 10 minutes,
you know, that's art related. That's a lot
easier than saying, I will do a finished
painting every day for this. I will finish
a collage, I will... Whatever it is. Like,
that's...
I think when you put the emphasis on
the outcome as opposed to the effort is
on showing up. It's really hard. So technically,
we've never said we're gonna put out a
podcast every week. We have said we're gonna
show up every Wednesday at 4 and record
a podcast.
This
And and, you know, the rest of it
has kind of followed. I think this is
the whole thing that people say, like, I
mean, this is again theory because I don't
do this. But, like, if you wanna go
to the gym, put your shoes by the
door, Make it easy for yourself. Have a
second set of clothes. Have everything ready to
go so that there's no barrier.
To doing it.
Anyway.
Okay. So behind the scenes, the making
of the podcast
So mom, would you like to explain the
making of the podcast from your perspective?
Oh, you send me
once a week,
sort of memo of what the podcast is
gonna be except not this week.
Why. But there's a whole
ethical thing about why you wanna trick your
podcast
you know, partner.
I would say
it's usually,
not self explanatory.
So
I sort of look at it, and then
I wait to find out.
What you're gonna do on the actual podcast,
which is what adds the incredible freshness
to this,
to this recording.
And then
we sit down. There's usually some 1 of
us has a computer problem.
Right? Because we do this on our computers.
Traditional. Yeah. So there's always a kind of
a mess there. And then we do it
And then after
we kind of chat
since I've starved for attention from you. Oh.
This is a good segue into talking about
you. But, anyway, what I was gonna say.
So from my perspective, I keep a trello
board with all of the podcast op that
I thought of or that, like, somebody suggested
to me or guess I wanna invite, etcetera.
And then it... If you don't know, what
Trello,
Board is based on the kanban system,
which is a way of, like, organizing your
thoughts so that they sort of go through
different steps. So, like, it starts off in
an idea that it's, like, a shortlist list,
meaning I've drafted that memo, then I'm gonna
send to mom, and that's ready to go,
or
it's, you know, been recorded, but it needs
editing or it's been edited, but it needs
promotion, etcetera, etcetera. So
it's sort of just, like, that's where that
all sort of goes through. And then, like
I said, so I need to obviously edit.
And we've been doing this thing where we're
doing both video
and an audio podcast, and that's been interesting
to have to edit both of those.
But it's also ann a berg because and
I used to be able to do this
come in my pajamas or whatever,
you know, haven't brushed my hair,
and then now I have to, like, think
about it.
Which is just 1 more layer of pressure.
To be fair, I still come in into
my pajamas and don't brush my hair, but
that's just that's just the no 1 can
tell on you. I'm willing to to the
world. Older you get the more being pulled
together is important to not appear too solemn
out Well, so I'm just s in middle
aged, I've accepted it.
And someday, I'll be old and s, and
I'll still accept it.
Okay. Not we call you eccentric.
Accent... There you go. I'm entering my gray
garden space.
So...
And then
goes up on Youtube, it goes up on
the channels is something I need to get
better at, a personal goal for me, flipping
ahead to the goal section for the podcast
is. I'm really terrible about marketing the podcast.
I know there there's a I know there
are lots of different ways to do it,
and I just different dealt. So that's something
I need to work on.
Yeah. You?
Yeah. It was you haven't done for
like, a hundred of tied care. I know.
I know. I will. It's on my to
do list. It's... There's a lot of stuff
on my trello board to do list.
And what I would say is some of
the things that I think
have happened as we have sort of like,
worked on the podcast is figured a lot...
They're to figured out on our feet,
what it's about. A lot of times, I
find that what I
other people respond to and what we enjoy
doing is just sort of ji chatting. But
I have tried more and more to make
the podcast have
not just an entertainment value, but useful content
that people can, you know, write down, think
about, you know, listen to the podcast to
get and kind of stuff.
So I wonder if it would be...
I'd like to encourage people to write to
you. Mh. If they think of something that
would be useful content for them.
So that they... We can
have some topics they were thought of just
by your Devious brain.
Yes. Although I have asked your Dbs brain
to come up with some topics too.
At. We actually laughed our our podcast that
we did,
01:59
maybe on focus was based on a comment
and so like, That's 1 of the reasons
I like the listener mail podcast too because
I feel like then it's a conversation. Because
at the end of the day, we're not
getting famous off this podcast and we're definitely
not making any money off of it. I
think it chooses, I know. Right? It loses
money because paying for podcast hosting,
paying, you know, website fees, paying for all
the equipment and blah blah, like, we're definitely
losing money on it.
And I think that at the end of
the day, then what's the point
in doing it, and I think it really
is about
community because I find that the people who
do listen to the podcast are like the
nicest kind most loyal, you know, intelligent, interesting
people and I I just... That's the part
for me that really
drives wanting to do it. Way to stroke
the audience. I will just say in fairness,
you could go, monetize it by selling advertising
So we couldn't go wanna
by selling advertising
because we are not big enough for any
time...
We because we don't have the pressure of
anybody else's issues. Yes. Yes.
Okay. So
that's sort of all that. So now we
get to the mom question.
This is like when you put the pill
in inside from peanut butter.
Why will there be
Julie questions. They're here julie questions, but I
think like, 1 of the things that is
very true is that
I miss piggy in our relationship. And so
I have definitely made this all about m,
and you hate the spotlight. And so now
it is going to be about you.
So mom, would you like me
to jump off into
telling people some places I think we should
start? Or would you like to begin by
just saying a little something about, you know?
I would like you to be check to
drive this bus.
Okay. Okay. Okay.
So
my
mother
grew up in the suburbs of Chicago.
And
your father, my grandfather was a professor of
Amp anthropology and your mom was a stay
at home mom.
Was this interesting to anyone yet? Because it's
not interesting
lots of people.
Wait a second? And
you... I'm interested to know because anthropology and
art are not totally unrelated.
Did you
talk about art
you know, in your household with your parents,
was that a thing.
You know, when I think about it, I'm
gonna give a lot of credit to my
father, who's the 1 who
took me to museums.
Mh.
Took me to
cultural events, you know,
took me to theater,
and who basically I took my little
vegetable brain
and
fed a lot of stuff that made me
realize that the world was much bigger
than
just my house.
I I think
1 of the things that you after
not underestimate is, even if you take your
children to things and they don't become artists
dancers
musicians,
still then they become
aware,
appreciative,
Consumers of
all the above. So
III could still remember having every time you're,
My father would do something like you would
say, oh, we're going to see the moist
of dancers,
and people would... I would say, what? The
voice of dancers, and this was a time
when there were not a lot of cultural
exchanges between Russia,
and
the United States and this was this Russian
dance troop that had never come before. That's
how old I am. And
it was eye opening to me. It just...
I think
so similarly, I once took your brother and
his friend when they were, I think in
middle school,
to
the opera or the Ballet or something,
and
they drove me crazy, but I always feel
that it was good that I did that.
You know? You they know it's out there.
Yeah. I think exposures is such... An important
thing. And even though, like, it drives me
crazy to take my 4 year old to
the museum Like I can't enjoy the museum.
I have to be on him, an have
to really watch him. I can't me and
he's complaining the whole time. I still feel
like it's
important that he's there, and, you know, learns
all these things.
Okay. So now I know that you traveled
as a child. In fact you lived abroad
in India.
And this is a time that's somewhat pre
as much airplane travels as you do, so
you took a boat.
Yes. But also, I think my parents liked
bolts. Mh. But that was was in the
days when...
Airplane travel was not so common. Mh.
And the dinosaur wasn't running at that time.
So we
The D would had to swim very, very
far. It gets,
from Chicago all the way to India.
Yes. But so I've lived in India. I've
lived in Japan.
I've lived in England. Mh.
Which is I real... I think is a
really good thing for a child to learn
that there's more than 1 way to do
things, more than 1 way to
have school, more than 1 kind of food,
you know, to eat more than 1 way
to speak to people,
and
I think you had the benefit of a
lot of travel when you were a little
and opens you up in a different way
to notice things.
Mh. Right?
And
You could probably talk about what traveled did
for you.
While there's a you you and dad towed
us around to... The... Back back in the
days a hundred years ago when airline travel
heard me wasn't as draco corny as it
is now.
Whenever my father
would go on a business trip, he would
cash in his business class ticket that had
been paid for for 4 coach tickets.
And we would all go wherever he was
going.
And oftentimes it was very interesting
places.
And so,
you know, I think we managed to hit
every continent of except for Australia and antarctica,
as a family. Although I did make it
to Australia on my own.
But, yeah, We went to Africa. We went
to South America. We went all over
you know, Central Mari. We went to Europe,
and I remember t through lots of things
that I hated that I felt boring that
I wanna kick the little snot nose 8
year old who was, you know, born in
Italy because wouldn't I love to take that
trip right now.
But, you know, I mean, I think that
that's the thing which is, like, I was
aware at a very young age how lucky
I was, because I saw real poverty that's
scared the Jesus out of me, you know,
on lots of our trips. When we went,
and you would see what are what a
real slum is like and what, you know,
people are living like and understand that it
was different. I think that,
you know, to know that
cultures are different
wherever you go. Like, I remember when we
went to Thailand,
You guys were very clear with us, like,
don't touch other children's heads. Don't, you know,
don't do this. Don't do that so that
we would know sort of what the cultural
norms are. And I think that that's something
that helps you un center yourself
to remember that
you are not the center of the universe
and what you think is normal. Is just
your normal. It's not the normal.
As they say, and I think it's true,
like, people who don't travel, the world is
a book and people who don't travel read
only 1 page.
Well, it doesn't it also open you up
to things to noticing things like
architecture, for example. Mh. I remember you went
through a phase where you... Which you still
may be in where you used to photograph
doorways.
Well, I still do it. I love doorways.
Paris is my favorite doorway City, but, yes,
doors doors doors.
I mean, I just think
it...
It's like when you move something in your
house and suddenly that room in your house
looks different. When you go to a different
setting,
visual setting. Yeah. You know,
he start cue in on some of those
things
in your own life.
Mh. I think it's true. And you know,
I often talk about how I as a
bi racial person, you know, are I'm dealing
with, like, different cultures and a lot of
perception versus reality, but you grew up
in a very bi cultural household your parents
sort of accidentally immigrated from China,
because they didn't intend to, but then they
kinda got stuck here
and you...
But they want... We're really, like, interested in
being American in a lot of ways. Can
you talk a little bit about that?
I don't think that's right. I think what
it was was my father had had gone
to graduate school in England.
And my mother always
said that he was
not really Chinese.
He was the a marginal man, meaning he
he
didn't have sort of the a lot of
the characteristics that you think of as typically
that culture.
I think
And
he was... He already had a lot of
facility,
obviously, in English and a lot of other
languages.
My mother came to America and she didn't
speak anything but Chinese. So she had a
hard... I think she had a very hard
Simon. I have the greatest respect for her
because she, as you said, didn't intend to
stay. They were...
They came. My father was invited to teach
at Columbia so they came for that and
then he taught to Car and then at
Northwestern and then they were
we were literally on a boat
sort of on our way to Hawaii because
they were bringing us all back to China.
I was, like, 4 years old, so I...
Or even 3. So I was kind of
oblivious to what was happening. And then
the Chinese
revolution
happened and,
my father wrote his brother and said, what
do you think should I still keep coming
and the brother wrote back and so, why
don't you wait and see what happens.
So we ended up
not going
quote back to China. So
I think my mother
adjusted incredibly well to the point where
you know, after all that time here,
she
she could
read English. She could speak English. She could
enjoy a movie in English. She could, you
know, do
math in English. But I think
that was not her intention. As far as
my father goes, he's very he was very
adaptable.
So
that was not a problem for him. I
think he actually would be... Would have been
happier here than if he had made it
back to China.
And your... Just tell me if I'm wrong,
but my recollection is that there weren't a
ton of Chinese women.
In America. Right. That was a time when
when it was very hard to
integrate
if you were in certain categories,
Chinese being 1 of them, and
they were
not encouraging people to
Bring their families because they basically wanted them
to go back,
You know, come work and then go back.
So
I know now when you go to any
college or you go to any
urban that you see lots of asians of
all kinds
But when I was growing up no.
Mh.
Must have been even harder, I was thinking
for grandma when there aren't a lot of
it... Other Chinese women around at all. So
then you're really feeling at sea.
Right.
So,
let's talk a little bit about you
have studied art history, like, actually taken art
history classes.
Was that part of the required
curriculum for you? Like, it's part that I
go here. Was just wanted to do?
It was an interest.
Mh. In college.
Mh.
And my boyfriend at the time wasn't our
history major.
Mh You know?
All sorts of things,
and then also I had...
Intellectually, I find it very interesting art history.
Because... And there's a lot of...
There's
cultural stuff to learn their psychological
stuff to figure out
as well as the visual stuff and
the
comparison
between
cultures can easily be
done,
studying the different art.
Art styles, art history,
the subjects,
you know, what they think is important in
1 culture may not be important in another
the materials. It's anything to do with people,
I find interesting. Mh. I'm compelling.
So
artist history? Yes, it fits.
Is there a particular
peak period of art that you're like This
is it. This is my art period. I'd.
Like, for me, I could look at the
abstract expression all day long and never get
bored by it.
I don't think so.
I think...
In that in that sense, I have very
catholic taste, meaning, I have very broad
taste.
So let's talk a little bit
about
Well, I was gonna say, let's talk a
little bit about how there was sort of
a cultural shift. While you were in school
there. I remember you've talked about, which is
when you went into college,
it was very,
you know, women required to wear skirts at
dinner and you had to, like, you know,
it was it was very what I think
of as, like,
how can this be the world we live
in, you know, you... The sort of x
expectation that most of the women even in
college would go on to be home and
all this kind of stuff. And then by
the time you left college
something had shifted enormously and a lot of
the rules had changed. I was in college
in the late sixties.
And so a lot of social movements were
going on. There was a lot of rethinking
about
what was
the norm
changed.
So
What I think is,
there are times when social changes more
quick,
There are times when it's...
Slower or it's regroup or re trench,
but
1 of the secrets I think of
having a happy life,
which is probably everybody it should be everybody's
goal,
is that you
don't keep looking over your shoulder and saying
it was better than
because it isn't then, and it's never gonna
be then again.
You figure out what's gonna work for you
in the new life.
Doesn't mean you have to adopt every new
social thing that comes along, cultural thing, but
you have to figure out what's gonna work
for you,
now, and then look ahead to the future
and say, oh, maybe I better learn to
use a computer because when I went to
college, nobody had a computer. I took 1
course that was a very specialized course where
we had the punch cards. Remember the punch
cards,
you don't.
I don't. Not old enough.
You know, and
I remember learning that the
the basic punch cards,
had just these slots and it was either
a plus or a minus,
and you
Remember learning that those were originally
a result of
centuries before figuring out how to weave textiles,
and it was the textile
designs that they did with punch cards,
It makes sense.
So well it's all related to art. That's
why I heard. Sort
panel. You know, it's either a little prong
or it's not a frog. So
I feel like
for a long time, I could
say, oh, I don't wanna learn how to
do this computer thing. It's to... It's too
difficult,
and I'll need somebody else to do it
for me, or you just go ahead and
say, well, this is gonna be important in
my daily life to figure it out. And
it's the same thing with a lot of
other things and same thing with art. I
could sit around and say, all day, Oh,
you know, I don't like this modern music
to I went to several John Cage
concert.
For pup I don't know John Cage by
the way. Just to be clear, like, a
John Cage concert could involve like all the
instruments being played at once, no instruments being
played, 1 note being held for 20 minutes
like, it could be a lot of stuff.
So perhaps, 1 of the... I went to
1
where
it was Mae Cunningham was a chore.
He was chore these dancers, and the music
was
someone was going around the building of the
theater.
With
broadcasting equipment, and he would be, like, in
the basement banging on the pipes,
just taking noises from the building,
and then the dancers would be dancing. So
that was
That was 1 of those situations where it
was either...
You can open your mind to it and
try to figure out if any part of
it works for you or you can just
say, oh, that's not for me. Mh. That's
dumb. Mh. And then On, and I think
that
a lot of times,
I try to think, well, you know, what
is my resistance?
What is the basis of my resistance to
this new art form, and then I try
to figure out, is there anything here
that appeals to me because
just rejecting things is not the way that
I like to live.
Yeah. And that's something you've definitely
given to me. I mean you've taken me
to a lot of eye rulers.
You take takes through a lot of the
recycling any events. Would it be in place
true. But everything from simple things like jazz
concerts where I was, like, what has happened
as the music fell heard around me, and
I don't understand anything that's happening to, you
know, modern dance, where again, I'm deeply confused.
To
contemporary arts. So just a lot of things,
and you've always been
a person who
pushes me to look harder or look further
think about it. Like, and and to understand
context as well? Like, what is
what is John Cage doing that as a
reaction to? And if you can understand the
intellectual underpinning of what he's trying to get
to, can you then at the very least
appreciates
you know, the thought
that's out there, even if you're not like,
moving your body to the pipes or whatever
else
may happening. And so I think that's very
much a way that I
try to approach my own making and try
to have conversations with people about. There are
my art and, you know, try to also
embrace in the teaching is like, it's that
old thing a little bit about walking a
mile and somebody else's shoes in some way
because it's the idea that you need to
not just, like, have a wall of judgment,
that snaps up
automatically,
but you need to take a moment with
all sorts of things and say like, okay.
Let's try to drill down here. And it's
it's even in this little stuff like somebody
gives you attitude gives you the finger on
the road, like as a total jerk, like,
can you take a moment and breathe and
say,
maybe they're having a terrible day?
You know? And
They will. Yeah. And if they're not, they
are gonna be now. Anyway, yeah. So there
a lot of about that.
Okay. So now you have been an art
collector as long as I have known you.
Is that something that you like.
Started early on? Is this something that you
came to later in life? Or did you
always like to buy art?
Well, I'll tell you where, I think
You know,
when your teenager, you decorate your rooms, so
you have posters and you stuff like that.
And then I went to college and the
college I went to, actually had a program
still has it where you can
borrow
art
from the museum that's connected.
You know, not know that. That's really cool.
Borrowed for your dorm room
for the year. Wow. So
I started doing that. Mh. And as a
result, I I enjoyed the
I enjoyed it. And so
I also am kind of a pack rat,
and I like to have
something from where I... I went on a
trip or,
you know, I might
save something from a restaurant that had us
particularly
Mh.
Important
moment for me there or something. So
I
I like having
those things.
And
so the combination just sort of
was good for me. And then I like
going to
craft fares, artisan and fares, you know what
I mean? Art fairs.
And
when you see something that you like, maybe
like to take it home and maybe it's
in your price range, so you do take
it home. Mh. But I will also cut
things out
and put them up wanna
you know, just because
I like to be reminded of that, so
I'll cut something out of a,
program or something.
Yes. And you always have early calendars it's
become quite a tradition that you can all
of us are at calendars each year too.
Yes. Currently, the the grandchildren are in the
Dinosaur
t mutant ninja turtle calendars, which are less
less
interesting to me, but I try to get
something that's interesting to them and then every
month is like changing little art show in
their rooms. Mh.
Well, also, I have the best our calendar.
I mean, I do have a Ka ski
monthly calendar that's stuck on March.
But I also have this art a day
calendar from the met that this is the
second year in a row. They've got me
this calendar. Is my absolute favorite calendar at
I 2 thumbs up recommended it to anybody.
It's a daily calendar. It's a desk calendar,
and it has a work of art from
the Med collect. In with a picture, and
then a little bit about the art r
on it.
Weekends very disappointing.
Saturday of Sunday are lumped together, so it's
not every day. Seems wrong. Doesn't it... Advertising
says it's every day of the week.
But, yeah. So it's great. I love it.
I discover Ulcers sorts mentioning things. I thought,
in a in a interesting coincidence
yesterday,
there was a statue by Harriet H,
who actually is who many things in this
town that we live in in Water town
were named after Harriet H. So I was
like, oh my gosh. And I don't think
I'd ever really seen a picture of town
it's a picture of her with 1 of
her enormous sculptures, and I don't think I
had ever seen in that picture, so that
was kind of an exciting. And I I
felt like, a real home hometown when I
was like, oh my god. It's... And I
I had him moment where I was like,
I know her. And I was like, you
don't know her. She's dead. What are you
talking about? But anyway, it felt very personal
more than, like, when you see a, you
know, a famous pager. But there been a
couple of contemporary painters in the calendar, who
I've been like, oh, I didn't know this
person and now I do, and that's exciting
and I go look them up, you know,
somebody new to think about.
Okay.
That's neither here nor there. I was gonna
say, now the question I have is, has
the podcast
in any way, changed your thinking
about art or clarified it in some way.
I don't think it's
change the way I think about art because
we're often talking about artists.
Mh. And the work of being an artist,
and the life of being an artist.
And
I think
it gives me insight into some of the
issues that you have.
In your work.
And since I'm interested in you,
at least for now,
it's interesting to me.
Is it a surprise to you that I
became an artist?
Well, yes. Because first, you decided you were
gonna be a political scientist for... I have
no idea why.
And then you became,
but theatrical director.
And then you were busy working as a
theatrical director in New York, and then
We had this little scrapbook hobby.
Mh.
The the next thing I know
you decide you're gonna do that.
And actually managed to make money at that.
And then the next thing I know now,
you're doing this.
I think what's what I... It's logical. The
progression is logical,
but
The thing is that both you and your
brother have ended up doing
Arts
careers, which
is not the right surprising to me at
all because like think... Same for you as
an Asian parent,
deep shame for you. Have you Have you
no Asian tiger mom and you at all?
Where's your dad Yes. You should be answering
that.
You're the 1 can be answering that.
I have no shame. I'm out... I've been
shamed too much. I've got 1 parent who's
Jewish, 1 parent who's chinese. There's so much
shame in between. It has negated itself. And
Have become a positive.
Now I'm shameless.
And I married a catholic man, so I'm
just saying guilt guilt guilt guilt guilt guilt
guilt.
Okay. So
I would say,
how do you think that if the podcast
hasn't sort of changed or shaped to you.
How do you think you have changed or
shave the podcast. The podcast is different because
you are a part of it?
I think because I am or so much
older.
Yeah I
view things,
in a more
you know,
a mile high
viewpoint as opposed to on the ground.
And I think it's a good balance.
Mh.
Because often and I... I think because you're
older though. I think, like, that has you...
I mean, like, hey, yes. You've always been
older than me. It is the nature of
being a mother and a daughter. But like,
you have always been something and I think,
like, on all the committees you work on
and all the things you've done, people have
always said, like, you're the... Person who always
takes
the longer
bigger picture view who wants to talk about
the consequences
past
a single action who sees the big picture
and insists upon
shoving the ugly big picture in your face
when you just wanna focus on some other
things like that always
been who you are and it's not unrelated
to the idea of, like, being open.
Right,
to
things that are happening and not like slamming
up a wall. I mean, it's a very
similar way of thinking in my mind. Do
you agree
My god.
Yes.
Like I know you.
I'm gonna be mu this over to tonight.
And new site?
Yes. Your this therapy
will be 475
dollars.
So my...
Podcast will be 500
horse.
My am I always losing money on this
podcast.
Yeah. I mean, I think that...
I know that you
have always
been
sort of the voice of reason,
the person who...
I'm I
I can be hot headed.
Shall we say?
Yeah. Just a little bit Union insight for
you then. The big sight.
And have a little bit of a spark.
And so it's very interesting because I think
both you and Steve, my husband often are
the ones who are like, whoa whoa, whoa.
Ref,
calm down.
Let's think about this for a moment.
And, like, that's that's an important dynamic.
Well, if there's 1 thing I do often
say, I think, when something comes up, that's
upsetting. I say time is a player.
You. So
many things, which are feel urgent,
I'm not saying everything, But many things which
feel urgent
time will
help
figuring it out. Mh.
So
they don't have to necessarily be resolved this
second.
You may change circumstances may change, you know,
whatever.
So
it's a way of thinking about life where
it means that you're not moving from crisis
to Crisis. All the time. Now, course course,
there are some things that are.
Urgent.
But I'm saying not everything that is upsetting
has to be resolved this minute.
At a level 10.
Yeah. I agree. Alright agree.
Well, how do you think that the podcast
has changed over the last 12 years?
Well, for 1 thing,
as you said, we used to have a
guest every time. Mh. And now we have
a guest sometimes. Mh.
So it's actually
enabled your voice,
particular to be heard more, which is I
think
the basis of why people are attracted to
this podcast,
particular Because with something you used to tell
me all the time,
which is you would say you need to
talk more. You need to. When you were
you were, like,
the moderator slash hostess,
and you do walked to... You wanted to
have the guest
shine,
but
I feel like a lot of times people
were tuning in not just for the guest,
but for you,
your thoughts, your reactions, you're. Experiences. And so
this has been, I think a good trend
for the podcast.
Mh.
I will say that I think that the
reason when I think about the podcast that
I
like.
It's almost always that there's something about the
host personality,
or something that I'm attracted to. Usually, if
I get annoyed by the host even when
the content is really good and like, for
instance, there are a couple marketing podcast that
I had stop listening to because I was
so annoyed
by the hosts that I just couldn't do
it. And there are other pockets were, like,
I'm not even really interested in the topic.
So but I like the host so much
I enjoy it or I find it funny,
so I keep listening because I think podcasts
are intimate,
like it's... For the most part, it's somebody
in your house, you're doing something. They're with
you. They're in your car... They're sitting in
their car with you. I mean, when I
paint to... A painting and listen to a
podcast. Like, there's 1 where I was on
a street with this podcast Morbid, which is
all, like, I'm... It's a murder podcast basically,
a serial killer podcast, also, and I swear
to you, I just... Every time I look
at that painting, I just think she was
murdered. She was found crammed under the bed
naked and I'm like, oh, gosh, that's in
the painting now because it's in my head.
So I should really listen to more positive
things what I'm working. I feel like...
Okay. So...
I would say thinking about where the podcast
might be going? Yeah. Where would you like
it to go? We when I like it
to go Well, I mean, I'd like it
if it magic made money or something that
would be great. But,
at the end of the day, like, where
would I like it to go? What would
I like it to do? I would love
it if we the workflow of it could
become a little bit easier for me. Like,
there... I love coming up with the topics,
and I love drafting the thoughts. I love
the recording of it. I hate editing it.
I hate all the technical back end stuff
that has to get done to like, generate
a transcript and
get the metadata in it and little, you
know, like, the really boring technical part of
it. I hate all that part. So maybe
your phone because
A lot of podcasts don't have any of
that, and yet you
decided to put that in. Well, I mean,
some ago you do
are the master
faith there. None of it you need to
do. I really I should... If... If the
pie hasn't ever made my money, Feel like
I would pay somebody?
To do it do. That's the main thing.
Right? Sure.
But I think, like, in terms of where
it's going, I think for me in some
ways the podcast is reflection always of where
I am
in my thought process, and I I love
that about it. Like, this I...
Yeah. It's old about you. It is. I'm
the mis piggy in the situation. I've said
that before.
She's a heart of gold, but she's got
a short fuse, and it's all about.
So I think like, the thing is,
It's...
I like the...
I like sort of that idea that it
reflects where Am because when I look back
at Episodes, from a year ago, 2 years
ago, I can see that I was thinking
about the whole idea, for instance, of an
art practice and my art practice and all
that kind of stuff. But I I hadn't
actually from formalized it even to myself, but
all the seeds were there, and it's, like,
now I have this record of it that's
fascinating to me that it's there. That it
exists that it was what's I was interested
in. And the same thing with, you know,
the very first podcast we ever did was
with Rhonda Palo
and it was on the topic of failure.
And I think
that has been something that
is still
something that I think is important that I
wanna scream from the rooftops to people
that failure is not to be feared and
failure is a step in the process, and,
you know, we just did our growth mindset
podcast, which is all about how you have
to view failure differently. And so I see
certain strands that keep coming through time and
time again. And it's just like it's a
reminder me that I'm still the same person
that I'm still developing being and growing and,
you know, actually, Sonia, my friend Sonia
texted me today, you know Sonia, And she
said the for so this is someone who
I've been friends with first grade.
And she lives in another state, and she
texted me to say that she had been
listening to podcast, and I had mentioned her
on the podcast and some advice she had
given, and she said she's felt very good
about it. She listens every week, and she's
a doctor.
And she know that she listens to didn't
neither. I neither, but she it was nice
to hear and it was just a reminder
to me that again,
there's something so nice
about...
That feeling of connecting with others. So I
guess if anything, like, I just... I'm hoping
the podcast continues to create
connections. That's really my goal. I don't have
any sexy like, our new segment will be
5 paint colors that you should try this
week and then we'll have, you know, an
interview with famous artist you know, zones so
like, it's just... That's that's this podcast is
like a...
It's a scrappy, happy,
little side project that I enjoy doing and
that I hope other people enjoy too.
Right? What are... Do you have hopes for
the future of this podcast, the fame and
Fortune?
No. I'm expecting neither fin nor fortune.
But it's a... You know what it is?
It gives us
a little tiny
portion of time.
To just sit and chat, which
between
everybody's busy life and
kids and, you know, health and all these
things
Is
rare
to just allow ourselves to just sit and
check.
Yeah. I agree. I agree. Okay. So I'm
glad people got to know a little bit
about you. This was the most non threatening
way I could think of. Of interviewing you,
although I know you still thought of threatening,
but you did a good job.
Let's just close out
condescending much of only a little, only 1
I have to be.
But what I was gonna say is, why
don't we close out with,
what are a couple podcasts that you would
recommend to other people to listen to? They
do not have to be art related. But
what are what are the ones that you
listen to and you enjoy?
1 of them is is it called how
I made this. How I built this. With
guy built Yeah. Where
it started on Npr, but I don't know
if it's still on Npr, but I know
the podcast is still going and some people
talking about how they built their businesses.
And
the surprising terms
that things took. And 1 of the things
that always comes across in every successful entrepreneurs
life is this thing about failure that
they come up against various
roadblocks and they
pivoted their business.
And actually actually, it might have become a
whole new business
because they... You don't... You can't succeed with
this mindset that you're gonna make it this
1 thing no matter what. And I find
that
reassuring,
you know, to think about whenever I'm trying
to do something,
okay. If I come up against something that's
making it that impossible, can I turn this
into something good? That works for me?
Almost every single founder who's on that podcast,
always talks about it the millions of ways
they failed, and the millions of people who
told them they were crazy.
Right.
It's good to know. Right?
Any other recommendations?
I do...
I wasn't to a lot of sports podcasts,
which... There may be other sports people out
there when do you like. They'll have to
find their own.
And I all I also listen to
you turned me on...
Is it smart?
I mean, I love Smart,
which is
3
actors.
Basically
interviewing that people, but they're very...
It's an interesting thing Because on the 1
hand, they're very
knowledgeable in some areas,
they also interview people who think
are
connect in
areas that they don't really have knowledge and
they're as much in awe of these celebrities
as we are.
And there's also a good kind of
charming...
Charisma between the 3 hosts, which is again,
back to the thing about you being the
host and people tuning in. No matter what
the topic.
Gonna tanya this week, we're talking about mud.
And I think people would still listen.
And so we're gonna do it next week.
Just to test it out.
I just think
the host is
the whole
ball of wax.
Mh.
You know, it's just like, I listen to
audiobooks.
And if I don't like
the reader.
Mh. I can't enjoy it no matter how
good the book is.
Because
the relationship between me, the listener and the
reader has to work for me.
Agreed.
I would say, I probably listen to, like,
10 or 12 podcasts
fairly regularly.
The ones that, like, I'm would...
That I think might be useful, let's say,
in the art category, I would say I
really like the week arch.
Which is a podcast out of the Uk.
And so it does focus more on the
Uk art
scene, but it is very global. It's out,
as an art advisory in the Uk, who
hosts it, and they give you all the
information about important exhibits,
acquisitions, things that have happened. They do,
interviews. They do... It's like a, you know,
a couple segments in a show. Very, very
interesting and thoughtful. So I like that and
a little bit of, you know, contemporary art
knowledge.
Global contemporary knowledge never heard anybody.
And then I
have been listening to a lot of morbid.
Which again is
if if you like true crime mystery,
then Morbid is good for you.
I also really
enjoy
marketplace, which is a financial podcast from Npr
formulaic.
Yeah. They don't...
They neither dumb it down
nor do shop talk too much.
So I feel like I am being spoken
to in plain language. I understand the economics
that they're talking about. I get... Some human
interest stories along with it.
You know, I just...
I feel like it's it's gives me a
basic handle on, like,
what the fed is doing right now, which
is not a sentence I thought I would
ever say, but I'm in my forties and
I feel like that's a good sentence to
be able to say.
Let's see What else? 1 other podcast do
I really like right now that I'm super
listening to. Oh, you know what? I've been
binging a lot of pop culture happy hour.
Which is a daily podcast.
And what I like about it is, I
don't have to watch
anything,
but I know it, everything
about what
is happening. So even... So they do... Because
there's pop culture not just movies and. They
do movies,
Tv,
music,
books, like, if people are talking about it.
If it's in the cultural zeitgeist, they are
talking about it. And so I feel like
This obscure series on Netflix or the really
popular Star Wars, you know, series or whatever
it is. Like, I don't have to watch
it. I listen to it. I can have
a conversation with somebody about it later, and,
like,
I'm good.
So
That's of it again. Pop culture. Pop culture
happy hour.
And they have an ever rotating panel of
people. So there, like, 4 main hosts,
but
they're rarely the 4 of them together.
It's it's almost always, like, 1 or 2
of the hosts with other people. And, like,
they make an effort, to bring in, sort
of
demographic appropriate people. So, like, I listened to
1 today that was
talk about the new
this the new native movie that Lilly Glad
jones in, and so they had a panel
that was mostly native people
you know, there... If it's a lot next
situation, if it's a, you know what? Like,
they try, I think to generally have people
who can speak to whatever the cultural experience
might be that's going on with it, which
is also interesting because it'll be... You know,
there'll be somebody on the panel who speaks
Korean who says, like, oh, the Korean
and this was, like, really weird and not
the... You know what Mean? And somebody else
who doesn't and they can have a conversation
about that that. You know, so I enjoy
it.
Anyway, so
let us know what podcasts you're listening to.
I always find that Jay had love him
add more to my rotation, have a few
have some... Have fewer murder podcasts in my
mind and some more happy stuff.
In the meantime, if you wanna connect, you
can find me at julie balls dot com
or all over social media as at balls
designs. Mom keeps a lockdown and private it
so you can't find her.
I really hope that you'll sign up for
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to make sure you keep up on the
latest news, and you can there's a big
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you can leave a review. I saw today
that there are, like, 97
reviews or something on Apple Podcasts, which I
appreciate so
much.
It really helps other people find the show.
Like, that's the thing that when I'm saying
that I need to work on marketing for
the podcast.
1 of the more than any market I
can do, you writing a review like, times
10, what I could do. So that would
be awesome if you'd be willing to do
that, mentioning us on social media, telling a
friend,
putting you know, giving a letter to a
snail to carry somewhere, all of those things
help other people find the show. So thank
you so much for listening and subscribing. We'll
see you the next time. The adventures art
podcast.
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