This is the Art Beauty podcast, where we are always reaching for truth
in beauty.
Remember, this podcast is not sponsored, which means that the brands
and the people who are on here are not paying to be here.
So we can ask them the questions that we know you want the answers for
because you deserve to be informed so you can make the best choices
for yourself.
With that said, I'm Amber, and my fabulous co-host today is friend of the show, Dr.
Corey L Hartman.
He is a board certified dermatologist.
We did a fabulous podcast together on the Daxxify, which is news.
If you haven't checked that out, make sure to go check that out.
And how are you doing, Doctor?
Dr. Hartman welcome to the show.
I'm doing well.
Just in the swing of things, trying to get spring out of here.
And some are on the way.
I mean a mean to that.
It feels like it's taken forever here in New York,
but I feel like it's we're on we're almost there.
We're really close.
I'm really excited, you know?
And speaking of summer, one of the things that we were talking about today, which
I think so many people deal with, is hyperpigmentation.
So let's just jump into it because I feel like we have so much to say.
What are the causes of Hyperpigmentation?
So Hyperpigmentation is the darkening of the skin
and they can occur after any inflammatory condition.
That's probably the most common reason that people have it.
So think about acne, eczema, seborrheic dermatitis,
any of those conditions that can affect this getting caused
to be inflamed can leave behind hyperpigmentation.
And that's that uneven skin tone that we don't like.
However, there are other conditions that fall
under hyperpigmentation that are a little bit more specific,
and some of those can be impacted also by hormones
and sunlight and heat.
So while the inflammation is the underlying force,
these outside factors can also have an impact.
So when we talk about other different types, is that like like melasma?
I mean, is it just kind of like these dark spots like that I have here?
I mean, is there a way to tell the difference
between different types of Hyperpigmentation?
Melasma is definitely the medical condition of Hyperpigmentation
that affects the most people and is the most psychologically, you know,
emotionally damaging, I would say, because you really can't cure it.
But you can certainly manage it to the point that you can feel good about it.
You can look at it.
We're trained to look at it, to tell.
We describe it as a laser like hyper pigmented patch.
So that means you shouldn't feel anything if you run your hand across the skin
and it doesn't just exist as one, you know, brown spot.
It's kind of like this little wavy, lacy
looking hyperpigmentation that affects generally the skin
that's most susceptible to sunlight exposure and UV exposure.
So we see it most on the face.
We see it mostly in women, but men can get it too.
You can also get it on the arms.
It's just not as common and it is definitely affected by the big three.
So hormones, which women deal with their whole lives,
sunlight, everybody kind of knows about those too.
But the other one is heat.
So if you're in hot environments or if you are participating in,
you know, activities that put you under a lot of heat,
like I do like hot yoga, that's going to impact it as well
because it affects the level of inflammation in the skin.
And we now know this is kind of like new information
that inflammation also drives Melasma.
Wow. Okay.
So just to be clear, when you were talking about the big three, that
the last thing we talked about was specific to Melasma.
I mean, they also call that sort of the mask of pregnancy, right?
And that's because women's hormones, like you would mentioned, kind of go away.
But but I've heard it is tougher to treat than your,
you know, regular, you know, quote unquote, hyperpigmentation.
That's maybe sun damage related, correct?
For sure.
Well, think about those three things.
You know, if you're not adequately
protecting yourself from the sun with a good like minerals sunscreen,
maybe even with iron oxides like a tint taking a supplement or,
you know, controlling your hormones as best you can, those are factors
that are just going to be present in our lives no matter what.
So even when you're doing your best and doing everything that you can, you
have these constant
triggers that can keep the melasma moving.
So the first thing I tell patients when they come into the office
for treatment of Melasma is I can help you get it better.
If we do everything and you stop everything, it's going to come back.
Right?
That's kind of disheartening, but it puts you in the frame of reference
to know that you'll have to do something to maintain it.
The good news is that the maintenance is not nearly
as onerous as the treatment.
Oh, okay. Good to know.
So let's talk about the maintenance and, you know, sticking again in the melasma
first and then we can address other types of Hyperpigmentation.
Sure.
So there are many ways to control Melasma The first thing
obviously is going to be good sun protection
and some sort of retinol vitamin C,
those are things that are kind of like the basics of any good skin care regimen.
And they're also going to form the fundamentals of a good regimen to control.
Hyperpigmentation specifically Melasma
you want to use some kind of lightning agent.
And there are so many great products out now that don't contain
hydroquinone, which is always been thought of as the gold standard.
Hydroquinone has some potential problems and we know that even
when it's considered to be safe, it's not always
something that you want to use long term all the time as a crutch.
It is very, I tell patients it very crudely lightened skin.
But the problem isn't just the dark spots.
The problem that bothers us when we get these discolored,
discolored spots is the fact that our skin is not even right.
So our goal is really to achieve an even complexion.
Hydroquinone can be a part of that, but thank God there's so many new products
that are not only safer but more effective at helping us
to achieve a natural looking, even complexion.
You know what?
I was going to wait to the products till the end,
but since we're on a roll here and speaking of even I know that Skin
Medica has a very exciting new line the evening correct line.
So is this something that
you are using at home or recommending to patients at home to treat
both Melasma and then other types of hyperpigmentation.
Using it at home, personally
using it in the office every single day, seeing really good results with it.
You know, just full disclosure, I was involved with Skin Medica
in the launch of the products, but everybody who knows me
knows that I'm not going to get behind something that I don't really believe in
and that I haven't tried for myself.
So this line is so exciting
because it offers real ingredients that are formulated in a way that can be
as effective as hyper hydroquinone without the side effects.
And that I love that. Yeah.
So let's let's talk about it.
How does this collection address hyper pigmentation?
Okay, so there are three products in the line
and then there's another separate product that's used in conjunction
with a microdermabrasion procedure that skin medica also promotes.
But okay.
Three products are the brightening pads.
So that's like a pledge yet. There you go.
And you know, wipe down with that twice a day.
And this is going to be your like sort of like exfoliating.
Right. So eventually.
Heads Exactly.
They contain glycolic acid, 10%
glycolic acid is high alpha hydroxy acid, but it's very hydrating.
So it's very well tolerated by all skin types.
And you can use it in a way that won't interrupt other.
Right.
You know, more I guess harsher hydroxy acids
cause more of a reaction that you're going to see on a day to day basis.
But these really you can use
and incorporate into the regimen relatively easily.
Okay.
The other ingredient that they include is something called LC RN,
which is a complex that skin medica has developed as a proprietary ingredient.
The magic is in the the l the lotus sprout extract.
So the lotus flower, the sprout of the lotus flower
has a particular phytochemical
ingredient that when harvested at a particular time
in the gestation of the lotus flower, is known to help with hyperpigmentation.
And it does it in a way that we haven't been able to do before.
So all the there's so many different, you know, enzymes
related to the degradation of, of, of hyper being, of pigment and melanin.
But the one aspect that we hadn't been able to
affect before was the degradation of the Mylanta.
So the Mylanta.
So it's just the skin cell that holds the pigment.
So when you make that go away
and make it go, you know, die out, then there goes the pigment.
So that was the missing component.
So that's the lotus brown extract, that's L, the T is try and exhibit
transgenic acid, which we all know as a potent hyperpigmentation
hypo pigmented agent that can be used for hyperpigmentation.
Now, historically, transgenic acid
has only been available as high as two or 3%, and this
line of
products takes it up to as much as 6%. Wow.
Do we need to talk about the the origin of why we know transgenic acid works?
No. I mean, yeah, let's get into it.
Of course.
So this is the topical version?
Yeah.
Simec acid was originally discovered to be helpful for Melasma
and Hyperpigmentation when it was given as an oral medication
to patients with heavy periods to help them control their periods.
Because not only is it a hyper pigment hyperpigmentation
agent, lightning agent, but it also helps to clot.
So if you have a heavy period, you want to stop that blood flow.
So that's why they were giving it to those ladies.
But they noticed, hey, your melasma looks fantastic.
So the oral medication is available,
but it has risks and you can't use it all the time.
Okay. Get your melasma under control.
I reserve it for severe significant cases that are just recalcitrant
to other treatments is great in those cases.
And even then I only like it for three months at a time.
So in very severe melasma we want to use it
maybe a couple of times a year, but it's nice to have a fallback
as a topical that doesn't have the side effects.
So okay.
And I do want to ask that now really quickly,
sort of a sidebar here, because you mentioned that
this sort of has a clotting factor Like is it are people topically,
are there people who should not be using tranexamic acid topically?
Absolutely no problem. Okay.
There's no risk.
It's just been a penetration issue and a concentration issue.
Okay.
Now, addressing that with this higher concentration so topically.
But that's why we know transgenic acid is great.
So that's nice to see.
So l t in the end is niacinamide.
Yeah.
Now remember I just told you that the missing ingredient
or the missing factor in why people get melasma was inflammation.
And we just discovered that a few years ago.
So Niacinamide, you know, had its moment a few years ago in the media
where we all realize how great it was to help calm down inflammation.
So why not add an element of anti-inflammatory effect
to this complex so that it can all kind of work together?
So that's the Eltamd complex in all three products.
That's a common thread that goes through all three products
and they have different concentrate ions of the
and so the brightening pads have lost 2%, I believe.
And let's move on to the serum. Okay.
So this serum is think of this one.
If you are familiar with Skin medica and they're
innovative, groundbreaking product like Tera,
which was the first on the market, I believe.
I loved Terra.
Yes. This is like like Tera on steroids.
It's like super like Terra.
So it took it up to 6%.
It's very hydrating, very moisturizing.
But it also contains higher concentrations of the lighter,
and it has some other herbal ingredients in it as well that help with,
you know, hyperpigmentation and inflammation.
So that's probably the marquee product in the line.
It has that nice satiny finish.
It gives good hydration and that when we want to use twice a day
and I want to just add here that none of these products has to be
used in a very specific manner on dark spots, only.
Okay.
The first two that we talked about, you can use it all over
and you don't have to worry about that hypo pigmented halo that
Hydroquinone can give you if you're not very careful.
It just evens out your skin tone, which is what we all really want.
Before we get on to the third product.
You know, when we're using this like a who is this right for?
So is this really if you are suffering from severe or,
you know, I mean, I feel like we all kind of want better looking skin.
We all have some sort of damage or so this is for everybody can use it.
Yeah, Melasma of course we want to use it for that.
But there are people who just have, you know, what I call chronic photo damage
where they have like this, these little brown spots.
You kind of alluded to it exactly.
They creep in on you before you know it and they contribute to,
you know, a complexion that's not totally even.
So, it can help with all those led
to those and chronic photo damage and all of that.
Cumulative signs of sun that even if you're careful,
you're going to probably experience to some degree.
So is this like a collection that you're kind of recommending like
pretty much every day? Every day.
And you have.
Representation if you have.
Perrie Oral Hyper pigment of misery.
Perrie Orbital hyperpigmentation around the eyes.
That's a huge problem.
I do tons of work in that space every day.
We use fillers, we use PR P, we use lasers,
but a topical regimen is important and that skin is not only sometimes
more effective with the darkness, but it's also very sensitive.
So I just use anything and that's why I really love
using these products because they're easy to incorporate
because they just don't cause any inflammation.
And I guess, you know, because you're already getting your
you've got the glycolic acid with the peel.
You don't need to add a retinoid on to this.
Right. So is it
is this kind of like your two step skincare system and you're good to go?
Well, let's talk about the third one.
Oh, and the third one, the thermal.
Yeah, because the third one has a lower concentration of the and but still high.
But it also contains vitamin C,
NIACINAMIDE retinoic acid
and it has a one other delta X complex.
So it kind of has all the things that we have always thought
about as being good for hyperpigmentation
packaged in one stable, you know, product
that packs a powerful punch without any inflammation.
And I really like that one because it's like a satiny finish.
So even somebody like me with oily skin can use it and it does very well.
But this is just to be meant to like on the dark spot itself.
Exactly. That one's meant to be more on.
And I say in the area of the dark spot, you don't have to be as specific
as you have to be with Hydroquinone if you, you know, get it outside of that
area, it's not going to cause an unnatural appearance.
It will kind of lighten everything to the same degree
because nothing is too high concentration in there.
That's gorgeous, by the way.
I really it's like such a beautiful like you.
You nailed it like a like a matte satin finish.
You know, you have made reference a number of times.
Oh, well, Siri is jumping in here. Excuse me.
You've made, you know, a number of references to yourself using it.
And I'd like to take a moment to really address, you know,
different skin tones, skin types, because I know that in the past,
like hyperpigmentation can affect races very differently, correct?
Absolutely. Yeah.
Yeah. It's really funny.
You know, there have been studies that show that people are more bothered
by an uneven skin tone than they are even by wrinkles.
Yeah.
And what drives a lot of patients to seek treatment for their acne
or their eczema despite the inflammation and discomfort that it can bring to
them, is the fact that their skin is not even I can't tell you how many times
I've had to convince the patient that their dark spots, yes, we can help
you treat those, but we really need to get the inflammation under control.
So let's get these breakouts under control
because otherwise you're just always feeding the hyperpigmentation
and then, you know, you're not really getting to the root of the problem.
So that has always been a top concern and that drives, you know,
Melanie added people in to see the dermatologist,
and it provides us an opportunity to just educate them
about the importance of, you know, addressing other skin conditions as well.
I love that.
And we did a fabulous podcast, If you didn't check this out on
for Common Skin concerns with Bipoc Women.
So if you are listening
and then if you are interested in that, I suggest you go check that out.
You know, I have AIDS, My mother's Korean.
I know I don't really look at, but I deal with Asians in an Asian
skin is really tricky when it comes to Hyperpigmentation as well.
But so, you know, circling back on this, you would say that
this is good for all skin types, tones, Everybody can use.
It is everybody can use it.
I think you're
going to find your rhythm in it, you know, like I did with oily skin.
I tend to like the dark spot cream.
And I may use that a little more liberally because I like the finish
and I like the way it plays with my particular, you know, skin type.
So I tend I have all three, but I tend to use the dark
spot cream and the brightening pads more regularly.
Then I pull out the serums personally.
So how do they play with other products? Right?
Because I know a lot of the people who are listening.
We've got
I mean, you know, I work with Newbeauty,
so my bathroom is like a Sephora, essentially.
But how do they play with other products
and is there anything we should not be using with this?
You know, they really play well with with a lot of things I use more than this.
I just say that
and I don't have any issues.
You know, I even I'm like a double retinol kind of person,
like prescription at night and something lighter in the morning
and a combination product to help control breakouts.
And I haven't had any issues at all because I'm a little oilier, you know,
I tend to keep some of the heavier duty stuff at night so that I'm not walking out
looking too too shiny.
But with that
matte finish in the dark spot cream, it gives me exactly what I need before
I put my sunscreen on.
So I haven't had any issues.
They the products don't pill.
You know, they I don't wear makeup, but
I haven't heard from any of my patients that I recommended it to,
that they've had any issues applying it and then applying their makeup on top.
So, no, it's beautiful.
I mean, especially that spot treatment.
Like you said, it does have that super satiny texture.
You know, I just want to state this for everybody who's watching.
I mean, I think it's a pretty much of a given.
But if you were using these products,
if you're suffering from any type of hyperpigmentation
and actually know everybody, I mean, make this blanket statement,
you should be wearing SPF every day, correct?
1,000%. I mean, you're so elegant now.
There's so many options.
I know that in the past they weren't all the best for all people.
But there are so many options now you can find one that works for you.
I tell people.
It's a.
Very personal decision, so I get it if you have to play around with them
because any little thing can throw it off the smell,
the way that it goes with your makeup, you know, all these things.
So you have to really, really love it.
But once you find that one, just commit.
Is there one that you love that you can share with us?
Okay. So I'm going to be honest with you.
The one that I've been wearing since last year, movement to London
is a European filter that's not available in America.
It's a la Roche-posay.
I know it's the oil sheen.
Like oil sign control,
but if I have to choose a mineral sunscreen, there are so many good options.
There's the IS in RF, it's on Tenneco, which I love.
It's great for people who hate sunscreen.
The Supergoop mineral.
I'm a mineral kind of guy.
That mineral one is fantastic.
And I'm going to let you all know a little secret.
This is about to launch right now. I had an advanced,
you know, sample of its color science.
They have a new product called No Show.
It shows nothing and protects from everything is the tagline.
And I think that's just brilliant
because it goes on, totally disappears and it keeps you covered.
So look for that one.
That one's coming out like right now.
I love that, you know, I haven't tried the is and I will be going to Europe
and I will be looking for that La Roche-posay you know, it's such a bummer.
They get they get all their stuff there
that we don't get, you know, a lot of the time it's because
from what I've heard, I'm not the expert here, but from what I've heard, it's
because getting that SPF rating in the United States is so tough.
So a lot of products, you know, I talked to a brand which I can't imagine
who was like, actually, it's the exact same formulation.
We just can't list that it has.
The SPF in it here in the US, we can in your neck.
We can't here.
But they were like the formula that we sell here does have the SPF in it.
We're just not allowed to say it.
So I listen, I believe
the whole FDA like sunscreen thing is in such a shambles right now.
I think they're trying to get it together
because we want to be able to like, believe what we hear.
Yeah, I.
Do appreciate them for being cautious about certain ingredients, But,
you know, there's not a lot of science always to back up the fact
that some of them can be harmful or dangerous.
And I think we're just always 15 years behind.
I got to say, too, I'm loving Ty Zo
Great.
I always forget about Ty, so I'm glad
I know what comes around.
They don't like send me stuff to keep it on mine, but that one is awesome.
I'm going to make a call for you, right?
I know. I appreciate that.
I will.
I'm going to do that right after this
because I was on my girl, Amanda, and I actually just saw her yesterday.
Ty, Zo, Tiso, Ty.
So I love it. Great for relations.
And then of course, the Skin medica has great relations.
I do want to ask you this because we are talking about the skin
medical product, and I'm a huge fan of skin medica.
Maybe my thinking is wrong, but in terms of active products
that deliver results, do you feel like Skin medica is owned by Allergan?
Allen is a medical company, so I feel like skin Medicus claims
have to be backed up even more than, let's
say, a non-regulated cosmetic
product.
That's listen, you hit the nail on the head
and sometimes it's kind of frustrating.
I know for them the hurdles that they have to go through that other companies
don't have to go through because, yes, they're owned by Allergan.
But remember, Allergan is owned by AbbVie and AbbVie is is about as big pharma
as you can get, which is great because that means they have tons of resources,
they have all the science.
I had a chance to visit their headquarters in L.A.
a couple of months ago
and meet with the scientists and hear about some new things coming.
Which are they?
They're always innovating,
but just seeing the level of detail that goes into their clinical trials
and talking to these brilliant PhDs who have this as their life's mission
to make these products better and deliver results for us was inspiring.
So you are totally correct.
They're held to a
somewhat different standard just because they're not just a cosmetic company.
They're actually like a, you know, a big pharma medical brand.
Yes. Yeah.
So, I mean, you know, listen, it's not inexpensive products, but man, do
I love it that Tiffany's serum is like I was using it, using it, using
it and thinking.
Then I stopped using it
and I was like, oh my God, I need it back, right?
Because because from using virtual only skin is just good.
And then when I stopped, I was like, Oh shit, but I'm back on it.
So thank you.
To tell patients that all the time.
If you really want to see how it's working, stop using it.
Yeah.
And I got to tell you, I'm really excited.
I just got my hands on this and I have not,
you know, I keep it real with everybody watching.
I have not gotten to try these products out yet, but I did love the late Tara.
It was the only time I've ever noticed.
You can't really see it here, but I've got this one pesky slot.
It's the only time I've ever noticed it. Lighten up.
Didn't go away completely, but it's certainly light.
And so I'm excited.
You will be very pleased.
I you know, I posted a go check my Instagram out in a couple of months,
but I had a little spot on this side that was just there.
And I used the dark spot cream on it.
And I mean, the facts are the facts.
You see the pictures, so it it'll get it gone.
Amazing.
Oh, you know, I was a little social of mine and let's see how we can get it on.
How long does it take to get it gone?
I know it's kind of a sliding scale, but are we talking about a mummy?
This was like four weeks. Yeah.
Yeah. Existing use.
Oh, great. Okay, perfect. Awesome.
You know, before I let you go,
you know, on this topic of hyperpigmentation, you know,
in-office procedures, are there any things that you're really,
like, psyched about that you feel like are great?
So many.
So my favorite is we have a PICO.
Sure. Laser Picosecond laser.
That one to me is just top tier because the downtime is minimal.
You can use it on all skin types.
You can adjust the settings to be exactly what you need.
Some people don't even really have to numb for it.
You can really go in to break up pigment and you can also just give somebody
like a nice, you know, filtered look for an event.
It kind of like brightens everything up.
But the key with that one is that it doesn't really have a lot of heat.
It drives in energy, which blasts the pigment into smaller and smaller pieces.
So you don't have to worry about peeling.
You don't have to worry about, you know, causing too much heat for Melanie,
dead skin.
I mean, you still want to use an experience tan to do it
because that's still the device.
But Peak Usher far and away is my favorite technology
for dealing with Hyperpigmentation because not only can it get pigment
that's in the epidermis,
it can go deep enough to get the stubborn, hard to treat pigment
that's trapped in the dermis, and that's the differentiator.
So is it like does it does it come up to the surface, kind of like an IPL?
It doesn't really do that. Oh.
You can do that.
Your skin's pink for maybe two or three days.
And because there's not like a heat that's driving, you know, a re epithelial
ization, you're really just watching the pigment just kind of go away.
Oh, love that extranet.
Once it gets small enough so we just have to pound it down.
No small enough particles that it's not even a factor anymore.
Amazing, amazing, amazing.
Dr. Hartman, I love having you on all the time.
You know, I'd be remiss to just ask because we did our last thing on DAX.
If I. You think.
Listen, so far so good.
You're coming up on that six month mark.
Y'all know I like Amber.
Keep it real, and I'm going to tell it like it is.
And if it's not working, it's not working.
But I wanted to get it to six months because that was the claim of the company
and there's been a few tweaks.
We've changed the dilution, we've played around with it.
So I think it was smart of them to limit the rollout to experienced doctors
who knew what to do so that we could give them feedback.
So far, so good patients love the way that their skin looks at two weeks.
Something is going on with the appearance of the skin.
At two weeks,
I've had patients tell me that they saw an effect in as little as a few hours.
So we'll see.
I want it to last six months.
It is a premium product.
We rolled it out to folks
who weren't getting the duration with their other neurotoxin before first.
And so, you know, we'll see how it goes, but so far, so good.
Oh, I was so excited.
I can't wait to try it because I want it.
Got you can't see I got Botox
three weeks ago and I'm already you know.
Well, it does. Look like you want it.
You want to move.
And I'm thinking, do you want a little bit of movement?
I'm like, shit, Should I go back in for more?
But no, thank you.
Thank you, Dr. Hartman.
Thank you. Appreciate you.
If people want to know more about you, if they want to get in touch with you,
where can they go?
Yes. So I'm probably most active on Instagram. Dr.
Corey Hartman I play around on Twitter and Tik Tok under the same name.
And then you can always check out our website at Skin Wellness dot com.
Amazing.
Thank you so much.
It is always my pleasure to have you on here.
Thanks, Amber.
And if you guys have questions at home that would be passed on to Dr.
Hartman, I'm always happy to do so.
You can email me at Hello at our beauty podcast dot com.
You can find us on Facebook, Instagram, Spotify, all your podcast platforms
at Art Beauty Podcast.
And as always, we will see you next Tuesday.
Maybe you won't be a little bit later by next Tuesday.
Let's keep it real.
But you know, you can be on the right path by everyone.
All right.