This is the Art Beauty podcast where we tell the real truth about the fake shit.
I'm Amber Mills, and today my fabulous co-host is Jene Luciano Senna.
She is a best selling author as well as a bra fitting expert.
And we are so excited to have her today because we are going to be talking about
everything having to do with the bra size, whether you are a biggie, a biggie,
whether you are a cancer warrior survivor, you've had to have a mastectomy.
We are going to get you totally covered and have a lot of fun in the way.
I want to thank you so much for being here today. Jenny.
Should we say covered or uncovered?
Oh, you know.
You know, it's funny to you sent me one of the gym bras
and we're going to talk
about your line of gym bras, you know, towards the end of the show.
But I was debating.
I'm like, should I just wear this and listen?
AUDIENCE My listeners, you know, I love you and I am an open book.
But I was like, maybe I don't need to be that open.
Why not?
The nice thing.
About it is it's like a very full coverage, you know,
because it was originally designed for QVC and the QVC audience.
Right. Which tends to be a little bit older.
So it's nice full coverage style bras so you can feel comfortable in it.
I would say it's like more coverage than a bathing suit.
Yeah.
Well, you know, I just wasn't ready to.
I wasn't ready to show.
Oh, next time. Next time.
You know, I think that for so many of us, you know, wearing a bra
is something that is like like, you know, putting on underwear, right?
It's something that we have to do every day.
It's like part of our daily routine that is baked into our routine.
But yet, so many of
us, myself included, it's like
finding the right fit.
You know, sometimes it's like you'll also wear
bras long past its prime, you know where it's going.
And not bathing, right?
You know, not that we're lazy on it, but I think that finding the right fit for
a bra is really difficult. Why?
Why is that?
Well, I think part of it is, as women,
we don't want to face that our bodies change.
So that's like a big part of it.
It's like maybe you are going through menopause and
or maybe you just gained some weight during the pandemic like all of us did.
Or maybe you have, you know, lost some weight
and you're not happy with your figure.
Like, whatever is going on, even a weight loss or gain as small as £5
can affect your bra size, which means that it can even be different
during that time of the month.
So I think as women where we like don't want to face the changes
that we're going through.
And then the second part of it is, which is also as women,
this is an act of self-care, in my opinion.
And so it often falls by the wayside because we're taking care of our families,
our homes, our children, our spouses, pets, whatever.
We're so busy that we just don't have time.
And this is something that you have to take the time to do for yourself.
So it's like the thing that goes on the list that keeps getting bumped down.
We just don't address that.
And, you know, the fact of the matter is, you really should get a bra
fitting or learn
how to fit yourself, which is pretty easy once you get the hang of it.
Every year, just so you can kind of regroup
and then you can address, like you mentioned earlier, those bras
that maybe are past their prime and it's time to toss them
and refresh and, you know, shop for some new ones or what have you.
So that's always like a good rule of thumb, but I think that's why
we have so many women walking around.
I mean, the statistic is like 90% in the wrong bra, which I personally think
it's higher than that based on my experience working with women.
So I think that's why you have so many more women
that are like walking around, just not in the right size.
You know, when you're talking about your experience
that you've seen so many women
not in the right bra, what are some of the things
that you've seen that you've identified that are like,
wait a minute, you're not wearing the right bra?
There are so many like even subtle signs.
The funniest thing is I got an email into my website today from
a woman and she said,
I have big
boobs but small shoulders and I always have the straps slipping off.
And almost like 90% of the questions like this one that people write in to me,
the first thing I ask ask is When was the last time you were fitted?
Do you know if you're wearing the right size?
Because the wrong size will really kind of like target.
All those problems that we're having can be really addressed with that,
like gaping in the cup.
You mentioned that, right?
That is oftentimes too big of a cup.
If you have the straps sliding down or the back band
riding up, that often means the band is too big.
So there's like everything can kind of be attributed back to a size issue.
Right.
You know, I also find that it's really hard, too,
because, you know, company to company sizes vary.
Right.
So I've been going to Victoria's Secret since I was like,
you know, old enough to shop at Victoria's Secret.
Right.
But, you know, I feel like I'm I'm one size there.
I did bra sitting with Isabella. Right.
An Italian brand.
Brand and European sizes are very different.
Totally different.
And I think that that would be really tough, too.
Well, Victoria's Secret, I will tell you, has gotten a lot better.
I actually worked at Victoria's Secret when I was in college, way
before I ever knew I was interested in bras
and I was pursuing a communications degree.
And I became a journalist right out of college.
And I sort of became interested at that time.
But back then it was, you know, you were trained to make sure
that people walked out the door with bras in hand.
So because it's very expensive for a bra company
to make a lot of different skews, which are a lot of different sizes
for them to have 25, 30 different sizes
on their racks, that's very expensive for them to do.
So like in the nineties, for example, Victoria's Secret
would have their course size range that they would carry in their stores
and they would train you to fit every woman into those sizes.
So you could be actually measuring a 32
F and we would have you walking out the door in a 38 C,
it's called sister sizing because bra sizes are based on volume.
So that was how the industry was.
And then the the
European
brands were a totally different animal sold in specialty shops.
They would have a lot more sizes, but the sizing was different, right?
And they would kind of fit more true to size.
So companies like Victoria's Secret have gotten better,
I think more because of outcry from customers and women getting educated
and learning about how to fit the proper bra mean.
I was the first person to ever write a book on bras.
This came out before social media.
The first edition came out in 2007,
you know, after Oprah's big bra intervention show.
And I and I really think I was part of helping
educate to women, which was really important to me,
especially as a journalist, as I'm sure you can relate to.
That's what we do.
You know, we bring something valuable to the public.
So I felt like here I am educating consumers.
And I think women got more educated about it and went to these companies
and said, You need to make my size.
And so they're making a lot more sizes now, which is really nice.
But yes,
do dress your point about the fact
that all of the companies have different sizing systems.
What a lot of
people don't know is that companies use fit models.
And these models are real people.
They're not like a computer generated thing.
It's like you or I going in there.
So it's become subjective because
say you're the fit model for a company and you go in there
and they measure you and they say, okay, you're are 34 C,
you could be another company could measure you and put you in a different size.
Yeah.
So that's where it becomes somewhat subjective
and then they base their whole line on your body essentially.
So you end up having like all of these different
kind of bras with different styles, with with sizes
that aren't standard across the board because of that reason.
I mean, but it sounds like helpless.
So like what, what are we supposed to do?
Or is it just like before you buy any brand,
you have to go on their sizing chart or get fit?
Yeah. Yeah.
So the first step really is measuring yourself
and kind of having at least the two measurements as a guideline.
The great thing is many companies now are offering further help with that.
So it goes beyond just like clicking on a size chart on their website,
they're actually offering you customer service reps who might be
trained and profiting.
I went to the Chez Fit headquarters years ago in Michigan
and she she so smart because she wanted her customer service
people to be able to really help women fit with her bras.
So I trained the whole staff in how to get a proper fitting bra
and I spent the whole day with them, so they became certified in profit
and now they can pass that along to consumers.
So it was great because, you know, you can
and they also have like apps and fit tools
like I know Thirdlove has some stuff, quizzes, that sort of thing,
some companies are addressing breast shape,
which is another thing that women never think of.
So if you're a little more volume heavy in the bottom of your breast,
you might need a different style than someone who has that like
top volume, heavy breast.
Or if you have more of like a
teardrop shaped breast as opposed to a round breast,
you might have a different style or be have different needs than a woman
and vice versa.
So companies
are really stepping up to the plate and kind of addressing all of this.
You know, I want to say to
going back to close the bell, because I did they had virtual fittings.
So that's become a popular thing.
I do that as well.
And for people who reach out that ask me for that, I'll do that as well.
Which is helpful.
And you know, we are really kind of addressing women right now,
but I know that a lot of companies now are starting to make bras for
for men and for people who might identify as a different gender.
There's a whole new market of inclusivity
that is coming out the word of around, which is really, really exciting.
And that's going to be very different, right?
Because somebody who maybe was born a biological male is going
to have different proportions, perhaps. Yes.
And a what typically. Right.
You would have that lighter than size
and oftentimes they would have breast implants.
So, yes, that would be a different need
when it comes to bras and a lot of companies are doing that.
I also learned when I launched the gym bra, I had a bunch of people
write to me on Tik-Tok and say, Can you make a binder?
And I thought that was so interesting.
So a lot of them non-binary people,
they look for
something to bind the breasts and called the binder and they were like,
We would love a binder with a crystal, a healing crystal in the center.
We love the idea, we love the concept.
And I was like, Oh my gosh, I would love to do this for you.
I will definitely put that in my plans for the future.
So it's really interesting
to see how even just the 15 years that I've been circulating around
in the industry that see how things have evolved
for for people, I mean.
It's just it's wonderful.
You are you going to you're going to do a binder?
I would love to.
So my I launched
as a startup basically during the pandemic because I had a prototype
and I pitched it to QVC and I won their big find contest.
And so I did one production run, self-funded, one bra for QVC.
Thank you.
So which was like still scares me to death, to be honest with you.
I'm like,
every day I wake up, like, in a sweat, and why did I do the right thing?
I sold most of my inventory and I had so much positive feedback
and so many women were so receptive to what I was trying to do,
not only with just making good bras that kind of fit the most amount of people,
but also that had the angle with the the healing crystal.
So kind of uplifting you both in body and soul.
So I really wanted there it is right there.
So that's the soda light in the tan bra, which is probably attract peace.
So that was something that I really wanted to do.
But I need funding to move forward further funding.
So I'm in that same boat as so many female entrepreneurs
where I am looking for partnerships, our funding,
applying for grants, all sorts of things like that to try and move forward, but
you know, luckily in in my business and in my field,
I do still consult for a lot of different intimate apparel companies.
And I still have my writing and my TV work.
So I'm still out there, you know,
doing column in and doing stuff.
Oh, I want to wish you the best of luck because I think it's
you know, it's certainly not easy to be a business owner.
I just I can't even imagine. Right.
You know, you mentioned you have so much experience
working with a variety of different brands.
You know, it's October, it's Breast Cancer Awareness Month
when it comes to, you know, women who are going through treatment
who might have had to have a mastectomy, one or both breasts.
You know, I know there's a lot more companies that are coming up.
Are you familiar with any that that you've worked with that
really have nailed this?
Ana Ohno is amazing.
She is a breast cancer survivor
and she has made
a line of bras and intimate apparel that really address
the different concerns of women who have gone through breast cancer surgeries.
So, like you mentioned, there is a unilateral mastectomy.
There's a bilateral mastectomy.
There are some women who have implants.
There's one implant, there's there's all different pieces.
And so she actually made something
made different styles that accommodate all of them.
So she's been getting a lot of press and buzz lately just because
she's really serving kind of that underserved market right.
And then, Jane, Chris Criss into this,
she is also a breast cancer survivor and made some really unique bras
that are really meant for post surgery.
So it's great that you have these
kind of trailblazers that are doing that.
And I think because of their personal journeys, just like mine,
you know, something we can all relate to, they're kind of like on a mission,
basically to make it happen and get everything out there
because of how what they went through and their desire to help other women.
So I really appreciate that too, because for me
it's never been about a moneymaking venture.
Like, of course you need to put food on your table.
And I have four children, let's be honest.
Like children are expensive, but but in my heart,
it's always been about helping people
and getting, you know, kind of using my platform, using my voice
to be able to reach as many women as possible and people as possible,
as opposed to just like making a living.
Right. Which I think is so great. You know,
you mentioned before
taking a very different turn, right.
But that these two incredible founders, you know,
went through this and had this I'm going to offer up my own personal.
So I had a breast lift because I went from
in a cup to a cup when I was like in seventh grade overnight.
Wow. You know, and I grew up always with with large, you know, not yeah.
Larger breasts, but not like giant breasts, but like large breast, you know.
And by the time I got to 41, they they had sagged.
I never nursed a child.
So it wasn't super dramatic, but I wanted to kind of get my groove back on
one of the things that was interesting to me.
So I went to one of the top breast surgeons really in the world.
He recommended me.
So he recommended the Victoria's Secret sports bra.
That is the knock out the.
Knockout bra, knock out maximum support that has the bra inside.
And then
it's so funny.
I wear it every day now.
All the time, mostly because I work from home.
Of course I wear like other bras as I'm going out somewhere.
But it's funny, he actually that was like he's like, that is the best thing.
And, and when I was recovering
from surgery, he's like, this is going to be great for you.
So if anybody's using a little bit of compression.
Compression and. More.
But here's another thing.
If you're thinking about we've talked
about breast implants before and breast revision surgery.
One thing that I was surprised, so I thought, okay, I'm
going to have my breast.
Leslie put in a small implant to keep the size and volume.
I thought, Oh my God, my life is going to be changed
because I, I'm going to be able to never I don't have to wear a bra anymore.
Big, big misconception.
My doctor was like, I want you in a bra 23 out of 24 hours
a day, because otherwise we're just going to get right back.
Yeah so. Where they were.
I implants do sag normal breast tissue sags
it's skin it's ligaments every everybody will sag.
Genetics are a huge, huge part of all this.
I have a similar story to you in that I had a breast reconstruction.
I've actually had to breast surgeries.
I had a lift on one breast because I developed as a teenager with
something called tubular breast deformity, which really sucks.
Yeah, really.
Like so dramatic.
I had a really severe case of it and I was like, What is this?
I grew up in a small town in upstate New York.
Like, we didn't have even like stores near.
I mean, it was like my mom owned the local clothing store.
You know, and I.
Was like, I know there was like.
There was no we didn't have like a Wal-Mart, I don't think at that time.
And I, I was like, what can I do?
So I just hit it and like, was shameful, ashamed of myself
for being looking this way until I graduated college.
And I got my first job at an NBC affiliate and I realized
I could have surgery and fix it.
And I financed the surgery and I went to my parents
and my parents were like, wow, we had no idea because I would wear
Victoria's Secret miracle bras and I would take out the padding
on the one side and leave the padding on the other side.
And undershirts, I would kind of look normal
and I would also wear that bathing suit in the summer.
The miracle bra bathing suit did the same thing,
so people didn't really know, like they weren't studying
my breasts to know like, oh my gosh, they look so different from each other.
I had like over a cup size difference between the two. Wow.
Plus one was tubular and one was like a normal shape but saggy.
So it was pretty bad to be like 14, 15, 16 years old
and looking down at yourself or looking at yourself in the mirror
and being like, Oh my God, why do I look this way?
You know?
And all the other girls, like, I would look around in the locker room
after gym class and the girls, these like round perky boobs.
And I'm like, What the hell's the matter with me?
Like, I'm a weirdo, you know?
So I ended up opting for surgery is not for everyone. But
yes, to your point about the fact that even if you've
had breast surgery and you have implants or that sort of thing,
you definitely need a well-fitting supportive bra.
There's been studies out of the University of Portsmouth in England,
which kind of has been the forefront front for the studies on this stuff.
And they put women on a treadmill.
So even if you're just walking around like you're running errands
or dropping the kids off at school, like you're just walking on a treadmill,
you're not running nothing high impact.
You're they found that your breasts still move up and down
a significant amount when not supported by a bra.
And even if you're in a cup, they moved up and down the length of a paper clip.
So even if you think, oh, I'm so small, I don't like remember way back
when Katie Holmes running the New York City Marathon with no bra
and it was like a big story, you know, they were like, oh,
my God, she's very small statured.
And she probably didn't feel like she needed it.
But there are a lot of studies.
So if you are concerned about sagging and esthetics and even like to me
that can cause pain as well over time, I really believe that.
So that's like an interesting question thing that people always ask me about.
They're like, Oh, do you need a bra?
Especially there's been a lot of debate about whether or not sagging can happen
when you're sleeping.
So there's this whole thing
like movement of women who swear by sleeping in their bra.
And then. There's my. Brother.
Me too.
Every single night I sleep all night.
Now I never get more.
Comfortable, though I never will in my opinion.
I never did.
Prior to that, I wore bras every day.
I had to.
Yeah, but.
But now I sleep in a bra and but I sleep in, like,
you know, like like like it could be like a like a lace camisole.
It's not. It's not.
Yeah, but I'm telling you, everybody out every day.
I'm in that
that knock out
bra running my errands at the grocery store,
on meetings with Zoom when I don't have to be on clothes.
That's what I'm doing, right?
Yeah.
You know, I'd like to put off having another surgery for as long as I can.
It's not fun.
Yeah, no, they aren't fun.
And I've also been kind of exploring
with a lot of women recently on Facebook boards
and just other friends of mine who actually, I don't know, there
ended up being like three or four people at one time that I knew that
felt that they had breast implant illness and opted to get those out.
My implants are about 20 years old at this point,
are older than that and also silicone.
So I don't have any symptoms personally and I'm not
I have no plans right now to get mine removed.
But that's been a whole big thing, too.
You have this whole
sector of women coming out
who are asking about how to
what do they do now for bras going back to their smaller natural breasts
when they've had these implants for like so long.
Right.
Because they're opting to take them out
and get a lift or whatever and just have natural breasts.
So you have all kinds of like things going on right now
in that in that world, which is interesting.
I don't know.
You know, that's something that hasn't been researched enough yet,
whether your implants really can make you sick.
And again, I don't have any personal experience with that and that,
you know, I've had mine in a long time.
So but there are there are there is some talk of that lately.
Yeah.
We've seen a lot of we've done a lot of,
you know, talk about breasts on this podcast.
And as you've heard before, you know, make sure no matter what,
if you're considering any breast surgery, whether it's a reduction,
whether it is implants, do you have a talk with your physician that you ask about?
All the side effects, all the rest? Yes.
Ask about the recovery, everything possible.
You know, that's what you got to do.
I do want to segment really quickly
because I want to talk about, first of all, the bra book.
You know, there is so much going on, but this is such a great book.
I love that you've covered everything from the history, which you call it
the herstory of bras all the way
up to fit tips fitting for your body shape.
Fitting for your breast shape, right.
Whether it's your drop, more volume up top, more volume on the bottom, too.
Also talking like
you know how to address puberty and wearing a bra with your teenagers.
Yeah.
So if you want to look in
and if you are looking for everything that you could possibly know, I love this.
The bra book.
It also talks about swimwear, which is really great.
It's been updated.
So that's actually the second printing
which came out in 2017.
So it has been updated.
I actually did go back and revise some things from the first edition
that I learned over time I felt differently about, which was interesting.
One of those things being fitness.
I used to feel really strongly
that you couldn't do anything to boost your bust with fitness.
And then I became really into weight training.
I had basically a near-death experience.
I had a blood clot in my lung
right before, right before I was writing the second edition and learned
that I had this genetic predisposition to clots that I never knew I had.
So which is scary.
So after that, I decided to really take care of myself.
And I got really into fitness
and into weight training and I actually noticed a difference in my breasts.
I felt like they looked perkier, so I was like, You know what?
So I went back and I revised that section of different kind of chest exercises
that you can do to boost the buzz.
And that I added swimwear and shapewear because I felt like,
you know, these are parts of intimate apparel that in the past few years,
since the first edition came out that are really kind of important
now, I don't need a big shapewear.
Maybe Spanx had come out in 2009 when the first edition came out.
But right.
Right.
So it was like you have so much more available to you.
So I said to my publisher was like, It's time for a second edition.
And I said, Oh, I like we have to add all this stuff.
So I kind of took out my own personal story, which I had shared
more in the first edition, which I felt everybody kind of already knows that.
Now, if you followed me all, you already know my journey.
And now it's more about you and less about me, you know?
So I was like, What more can I bring to you and bring you this kind of Bible?
And it is a nice kind of like coffee table type book.
Yeah, it's definitely a conversation piece.
You know, and great lesson.
Also great for, you know, what's really cute.
My girlfriend sent me a gift when I got my my new my new ladies.
So, like, you know, I don't know if, you know, somebody is getting breast surgery.
That's kind of a nice thing to have because they're going to need.
That gift card.
How to refit it before we let you go, because we are running out of time here.
Let's talk about the gym bras.
You know, we mentioned yes, we know that this is a line for QVC.
But what was the what was the thought behind putting a gem in the bra?
So a lot of women
wear crystals in their bras, whether, you know, it's happening or not.
It's a big, big thing nowadays.
And it's funny because I got into Tik-Tok when I was launching the bra
and I learned that the community, especially, they are so into crystals
and women have been putting crystals in their bras for,
I don't know, however long, forever basically.
And each crystal kind of brings with it different sort of power.
And it's not something new like crystals.
Jerusalem was built in crystals.
That's how far back we've been talking about the power of crystals.
So I thought this would be really neat if I can embed a crystal in a bra.
It's a patented design where it's affixed to the center of the bra,
so you never have to worry about it.
You never feel it doesn't fall out, but it's the first thing that you put on
during the day,
like you mentioned earlier, and you know that that's there with you.
So it's already you're feeling better when you put it on because it's
bringing you that kind of feeling.
So whichever crystal it is, it's evoking that sort of thing.
Like the amethyst really inspires confidence and courage.
And that was in my attractive best bra, which was the black gem bra.
So you could feel that right away by just putting this on.
It's like, again, back to self-care, what I talked about in the beginning.
Here's your tiny, teeny, tiny little act of self care that if you have
no time in your day, you already did something, you're already set.
I love that.
Hey, Neal, if people want to know
more about the book or purchase the bra, where should they go?
Okay, so my website is Ginny
Luciano Ecom, which kind of links to everything.
And that's also a forum.
If you don't follow social media or you're not into social media,
you can find me there, obviously.
But that's a forum that you can write into me.
You can ask me questions.
The gem bra, gembra.com
is the place to buy
the remainder of what is left from gem bras.
But they don't have much left.
I don't have a ton of sizes, but it is offered in small to three x which is cool.
So accommodating a lot of different sizes.
And the book is Amazon, Barnes and Noble.
Really any place that you buy books.
I love that.
And don't forget,
you know, if you want to
do a personal fitting with Jene, you can also reach out to her on
her website would reach. Out to me. Really great.
And because she's worked with so many, you can kind of guide us, you know, if
I'm also going to be introduced
as just a new boss, I want to thank you so much for being with us today
Jene. Thanks for having me.
Thanks so much for having me. It's fun talking with you.
It's so great talking with you.
And of course, if you at home have any questions
you want to pass along to Jene, I'm always happy to do that.
You can email us at Hello at Art Beauty podcast dot com.
You can find us on Facebook, Instagram and YouTube at Art Beauty podcast.
And as always, we will see you next Tuesday, hopefully in a
better fitting bra by, right?