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This is Carly Beam with the Becker Spine

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and Orthopedics podcast.

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And today, I'm thrilled to be joined by

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Daniel Goldberg,

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senior vice president of sales and growth at

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United Musculoskeletal

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Partners.

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Daniel, thank you so much for being here

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today.

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Thank you, Collie, for having me.

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So before we dive into our questions, could

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you just introduce yourself and tell us a

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bit about your background?

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Yeah. So I'm the, as you mentioned, the

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senior vice president of, sales and growth at

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United Musculoskeletal

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Partners.

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UMP has practices,

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in Atlanta, Denver,

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and Dallas.

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My job is to,

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grow new patient volume and improve access for

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patients.

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I've been in the orthopedic and spine practice

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marketing space for about fifteen years

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total. So that was, with another MSO prior

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to UMP and then my own independent marketing

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agency that represented about a thousand orthopedic and

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spine surgeons across the country from about 2,000,

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2,009

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to 2,019.

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Great. And I'd love to hear your top

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three priorities,

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head into the new year.

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Yeah. I I think the the top priority

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for us is reducing friction across the patient

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journey. So a lot of times, care is

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disjointed.

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Patients will go

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to one group or one set of providers

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for for specific issues. They'll go to a

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hospital based provider group for oncology or cardiology

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or OB. They'll go to an independent primary

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care provider

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or independent orthopedic specialist for those needs.

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But, you know, again, that creates friction. For

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us, you know, we focus on convenience and

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access.

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You know, for musculoskeletal

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patients, they need to be able to receive

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care on their schedule, and they really don't

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wanna wait days or weeks to see a

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specialist.

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You know, this is especially true with orthopedic

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conditions because they often cause chronic pain that

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interrupts activities of daily living, working, sleeping,

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taking care of their children. You know, for

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these reasons that patients wanna be seen as

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quickly as possible so they can return

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to their active lifestyles as quickly as possible.

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Waiting two, three, four weeks to see a

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specialist doesn't really provide them that opportunity.

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So at UMP, you know, our focus is

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on access,

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but that's just more than just having multiple

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locations in each market. It means, you know,

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online,

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online scheduling adoption,

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call handling,

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follow ups, everything that really goes into the

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first patient call to their post op care.

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So that's the number one priority.

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The second priority for this year is really

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focusing on embracing AI.

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You know, patients are increasingly getting care recommendations

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from AI answers, not just Google search results.

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About 50% of consumers now use AI for

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search, and AI generated

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overviews now appear in about 60% of search

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results.

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So what that means is growth from an

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orthopedic practice standpoint

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needs to,

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allow for AI

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to

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read and interpret your website and your content

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and understand that it's trustworthy and structured so

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that when a patient asks AI or sees

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an AI search result for who should I

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see for knee pain, that means your practice

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is showing up in those AI generated search

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results.

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You know, what is now known as

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AIEO,

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which is search engine optimization

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or SEO for AI,

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helps prioritize those clinical expectations, local credibility,

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and patient friendly content so that you appear

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in those searches.

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But that means

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sort of,

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shifting your strategy away from just traditional SEO

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that was based on keywords

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and now focusing more on intent.

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So that's one way we're we're using,

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AI.

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Another is

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to use AI to discover new audiences across

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social media channels, streaming TV, and other platforms.

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Now we know that not every patient

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seeks care at the first onset of their

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knee, back, or shoulder pain. Their research and

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discovery journey may span the course of weeks

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or even months.

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We use AI tools and those signals to

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allow us to build audiences

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of patients that are likely to be in

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need of, you know, MSK care. And then

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we proactively get our message in front of

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those patients so that when the patient does

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decide to seek care a week or a

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month from now, it's with one of our

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practices because we've already built trust and authority

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with that patient by touching them across multiple

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touch points. So that's, again,

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search,

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social media,

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print, linear, streaming TV, all the different touch

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points that allow us to get in front

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of that patient and and display our message

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to them. That's what we're really focused on

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leveraging AI to help us

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do.

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Fascinating strategy that you're outlining here. And I

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had a follow-up question for you, Daniel. I

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was wondering

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how you see what's the biggest opportunity for

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AI to really help with, friction points

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in patient access?

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Yeah. There are several agentic AI tools that

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can handle things like scheduling or rescheduling when

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a patient calls so that they're not they

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don't have to wait on hold to speak

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with someone in the contact center to reschedule

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an appointment or get directions.

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So there is an opportunity for AgenTic AI

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to help with that. The key is how

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much do you want the AI tool to

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do? Do you want it to schedule new

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patients, or do you want it to only

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do reschedules?

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Do you want it to do outbound referral

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follow-up, or do you want it to triage

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incoming referral faxes? It's really a AI can

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do anything.

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It's more about what you need it to

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do, what you trust it to do, and

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what you can teach it to do that

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helps you operationally.

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Got it.

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And, you know, you're obviously working with practices

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across different

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markets, states. And I'm wondering how you're thinking

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about growth in these areas and what strategies

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look like when you're working across different markets.

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Yeah. Good question. So, you know, UMP

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being the MSO,

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you know, our philosophy is a mix of

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centralized strategy and local execution.

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Now from the marketing side, UMP helps create

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digital front doors, optimizes call centers,

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implements AI tools and analytics so the practice

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can focus more on seeing patients and not

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necessarily building individual systems.

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But each market shares, you know, commonalities

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but also unique trends.

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One of the examples that I'll give is,

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you know, in the Dallas Fort Worth market

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where UMP has several practices,

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there are new developments and housing developments being

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built all the time. Mhmm. The influx of

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new residents into these areas is out pacing

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the growth of health care infrastructure.

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We know that the these residents will likely

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need MSK care, and we know what drives

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them to make decisions.

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But we have to be accessible to these

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patients and new residents. So strategically, our evaluating

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our geographic access points helps us drive volume

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in those markets.

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There are other markets

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that where, the the population is stagnant stagnant

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or not growing, but health care services are

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exploding. So we have to evaluate that as

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well. So it's really looking at the things

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that work

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to help streamline access and availability,

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but tailoring that to each market that we

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represent.

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Again, access is the primary growth lever for

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our market. So faster time appointment consistently drives

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volume and creates advantages

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over larger,

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institutions or health systems.

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Focusing on that messaging locally

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and emphasizing access and convenience has been something

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that, for us, has been proven to drive

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growth.

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And, you know, what do you think are

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some things that all,

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musculoskeletal

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physicians,

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regardless of if they're,

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with a group like UMP

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or if they're hospital employed, what's something that

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all physicians should be doing to improve their

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own reach?

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Yeah. So I'll I'll give a few examples.

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The first is, you know, understand how market

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dynamics influence patient acquisition. You know, primary care

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physician referrals have historically been the lifeblood for

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many, orthopedic practices.

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But as the downward financial and reimbursement pressure

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continue to make independent practices struggle,

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many primary care groups align health systems or

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payers.

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These employed or aligned models often encourage PCPs

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to refer to other employee providers.

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If If you're an independent group,

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not employed or aligned with the health system,

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this means some of those referral sources that

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you've historically relied on may dissipate over time

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because they're they're encouraged to, refer to their

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other employee providers.

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I think it's about 70% of US physicians

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are now employed by a hospital or an

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insurance entity.

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That has a dramatic impact on referral serage.

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So it's important to understand

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the market you're in and the consolidation in

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the market you're in so that you can

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create strategies for your field teams or physician

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liaison teams to continue to drive growth both

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from independent primary care groups

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and the employed or aligned primary care groups.

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In some instances, that means, again, highlighting access

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and convenience and expertise.

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But in others where that entity may be

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involved in an alternative payment model model, a

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clinically integrated network, or a value based care

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model,

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it means highlighting cost and outcomes data to

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those groups. So understanding what your levers are

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in in either the employed or independent,

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groups is really important. The second thing I'd

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say is understand your marketing ROI ROI. This

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is something that I've I've talked about for

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years.

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You know, whether the marketing is done by

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an internal team or an external

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agency,

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having clearly defined new patient targets and metrics

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for success

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in the beginning of the year, you know,

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we're in January now, is really important.

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Clicks, impressions, these are these are good, metrics,

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but understanding their impact on new patient volume

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is what's most important.

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Most practices should know their annual patient value.

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So and they need a clear acquisition of

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the cost per acquisition for new patients across

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multiple channels so that they can justify

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to spend on digital or referral strategies.

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If you know that you you what your

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annual average,

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new patient value is,

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you can do a math problem of what

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the cost per acquisition is and decide

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if this is a channel we wanna continue

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to invest dollars in or we wanna reallocate

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dollars or manpower into things that are that

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are driving new volume.

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This will help separate marketing expense from true

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new revenue and create a clear picture of

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ROI.

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Yeah. So it sounds like really now is

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the best time for physicians to kinda figure

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out what their goals should be this year

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and how to really attack those.

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Yeah. I mean, most practices have a a

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growth budget or a growth, growth target. You

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know, it comes down to capacity. You know,

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some practices can stand to grow

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10% of new patients.

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Some can only stand and grow 3% because

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they're not bringing on new providers. They have

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providers departing.

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Understanding capacity and then setting your targets and

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benchmarks based on capacity

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is what they should be focusing on, you

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know, in the beginning of the year.

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Absolutely.

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And then last question for you, Daniel. I

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know you mentioned before that you spent more

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than fifteen years in this orthopedic and spine

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marketing space. And I'm wondering, Neil, are there

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any lessons from, you know, past experiences

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that you're still

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working with

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now? Yeah. I I think, you know, in

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the fifteen years that I've been working with

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orthopedic and spine practices,

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you know, my job was always to drive,

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access and drive new patient volume.

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And as much as, you know, of all

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the strategies I've implemented and changes I've made,

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there's nothing more important than word-of-mouth, and that's

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something you can't pay for. The example I

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always give is

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if you ask a friend or a neighbor,

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you know, where you should get your taxes

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done, they say, oh, you gotta see my

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girl. I have the best tax girl. Or

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if, you know, your car is making a

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funny noise, they'll say, I have the best

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engine guy. You gotta go see my guy

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at at at the dealership.

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The same is true when someone says my

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knee hurts or my back hurts. Right? Someone

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will say to them, you gotta go see

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my orthopedic guy. You gotta see my spine

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guy. He's the best.

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That referral

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has more value than anything we can do

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digitally or anything else because that comes from

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a trusted source, a friend, a neighbor, a

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family member.

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The goal is should be to create patient

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advocates, but creating patient advocates starts with a

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patient experience.

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So from their first phone call to their

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first appointment

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to their follow-up care to their post op

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care, that's what creates a seamless patient experience.

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That is what will create patient evangelists for

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you so that those patients go out in

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the community and tell others

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what an amazing experience they had. There's no

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dollar amount that you can spend to make

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that happen, but that's one of the most

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important things

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to continue to have a thriving practice.

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Exactly. Sounds like an absolutely priceless

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aspect of the of the job.

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Absolutely. Yeah. It's one of the things that

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we you can't pay to do and you

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can't pay to replicate. It happens organically,

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but you can influence it by ensuring

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the patient has a positive experience across the

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board.

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Definitely.

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Well, Daniel, thank you again for joining us

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in the podcast today. I look forward to

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connecting again in the future. Thank you so

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much. Appreciate the opportunity.