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To learn 13 00:00:30,649 --> 00:00:32,929 more, visit carecredit.com 14 00:00:32,929 --> 00:00:34,789 forward slash beckerspodcast. 15 00:00:35,809 --> 00:00:37,890 This is Gracelyn Keller with the Becker's Healthcare 16 00:00:37,890 --> 00:00:40,049 Podcast, and we are recording live at the 17 00:00:40,049 --> 00:00:43,189 thirty first annual business and operations of ASCs. 18 00:00:43,945 --> 00:00:46,424 I'm currently joined by Aziza Dorsey, who is 19 00:00:46,424 --> 00:00:48,364 the COO at APMG. 20 00:00:48,825 --> 00:00:51,304 Aziza, thanks for being here. Let's kick off 21 00:00:51,304 --> 00:00:52,744 by having you share a little bit more 22 00:00:52,744 --> 00:00:54,504 about yourself and your work in the ASC 23 00:00:54,504 --> 00:00:55,004 space. 24 00:00:55,304 --> 00:00:58,579 Yeah. Thank you. Happy to be here. So, 25 00:00:58,579 --> 00:01:00,500 you know, all the work I do is 26 00:01:00,500 --> 00:01:03,299 currently in an ambulatory surgery center focused on 27 00:01:03,299 --> 00:01:04,599 spine pain and ortho. 28 00:01:05,219 --> 00:01:07,140 Those are the specialties that we focus on 29 00:01:07,140 --> 00:01:10,020 in Los Angeles. So it's very different market 30 00:01:10,020 --> 00:01:12,200 I'm hearing here at the conference than other, 31 00:01:12,900 --> 00:01:13,400 states. 32 00:01:13,715 --> 00:01:14,215 But, 33 00:01:14,995 --> 00:01:17,734 we have five surgery centers across Southern California 34 00:01:17,875 --> 00:01:20,034 and 10 clinics. So it's a lot of 35 00:01:20,034 --> 00:01:21,954 work. You know, our budget is very big 36 00:01:21,954 --> 00:01:23,555 and, you know, we have a lot a 37 00:01:23,555 --> 00:01:24,694 large patient population. 38 00:01:25,155 --> 00:01:25,475 But, 39 00:01:26,674 --> 00:01:27,174 yeah. 40 00:01:27,820 --> 00:01:28,320 Wonderful. 41 00:01:29,020 --> 00:01:31,100 Well, let's start our conversation talking about the 42 00:01:31,100 --> 00:01:33,600 ASC market. In The US, this is projected 43 00:01:33,659 --> 00:01:36,060 to reach $60,800,000,000 44 00:01:36,060 --> 00:01:37,359 by 2030 45 00:01:37,500 --> 00:01:39,980 and continues to experience strong year over year 46 00:01:39,980 --> 00:01:40,480 growth. 47 00:01:40,784 --> 00:01:42,545 So from your perspective, what are the most 48 00:01:42,545 --> 00:01:45,525 significant trends in Market Forces driving this expansion, 49 00:01:45,905 --> 00:01:48,405 and how should ASC leaders be preparing today? 50 00:01:49,024 --> 00:01:52,084 Great question. You know, number one, insurances. 51 00:01:52,790 --> 00:01:55,510 They've decided that they wanna save money and 52 00:01:55,510 --> 00:01:57,510 cost cut wherever they can, and they've learned 53 00:01:57,510 --> 00:01:58,329 that hospitals 54 00:01:58,869 --> 00:02:00,950 are very expensive for the same procedures that 55 00:02:00,950 --> 00:02:02,409 can be done in an ASC. 56 00:02:02,869 --> 00:02:04,790 I would say COVID was a huge driver 57 00:02:04,790 --> 00:02:07,944 of that. It made it known, especially the 58 00:02:07,944 --> 00:02:09,485 Hospitals Without Walls program, 59 00:02:10,185 --> 00:02:11,884 which ended in 2023. 60 00:02:12,585 --> 00:02:15,145 That was a huge driver for the ASC 61 00:02:15,145 --> 00:02:17,004 market. And now patients are aware 62 00:02:17,465 --> 00:02:19,004 ASC is actually an option. 63 00:02:19,469 --> 00:02:22,189 And second to that, patients paying out of 64 00:02:22,189 --> 00:02:24,669 pocket. Right? Deductibles are getting higher. Cost of 65 00:02:24,669 --> 00:02:26,909 insurance is higher. To get the same procedure 66 00:02:26,909 --> 00:02:27,729 in an ASC 67 00:02:28,189 --> 00:02:29,949 is cheaper for a patient than it is 68 00:02:29,949 --> 00:02:31,090 to do it in a hospital. 69 00:02:31,405 --> 00:02:32,224 And then availability. 70 00:02:32,685 --> 00:02:34,604 Think about how long it takes for you 71 00:02:34,604 --> 00:02:37,644 to get pain relief or a spine surgery 72 00:02:37,644 --> 00:02:39,985 in a hospital setting. You know, they prioritize 73 00:02:40,604 --> 00:02:43,164 most critical to least critical. And so if 74 00:02:43,164 --> 00:02:44,844 you're in that least critical end, even though 75 00:02:44,844 --> 00:02:46,384 to you, it is very critical, 76 00:02:46,780 --> 00:02:49,340 the system is not designed that way. So 77 00:02:49,340 --> 00:02:51,580 you might wait one to two months, maybe 78 00:02:51,580 --> 00:02:53,580 even upwards of four months depending on how 79 00:02:53,580 --> 00:02:55,519 impacted your city or state is. 80 00:02:56,060 --> 00:02:57,419 And if you go to an ASC, you 81 00:02:57,419 --> 00:02:59,039 could be seen in one to two weeks 82 00:02:59,099 --> 00:03:00,699 and no more than a month. Right? So 83 00:03:00,699 --> 00:03:02,239 you can get relief really quickly. 84 00:03:02,675 --> 00:03:04,354 Private equity has caught on to this, and 85 00:03:04,354 --> 00:03:06,275 they've decided that they're gonna drop a lot 86 00:03:06,275 --> 00:03:06,935 of money 87 00:03:07,235 --> 00:03:07,735 into, 88 00:03:08,514 --> 00:03:11,175 growing the ASC market. So that is why. 89 00:03:11,555 --> 00:03:12,055 Absolutely. 90 00:03:12,754 --> 00:03:15,655 And from AI and robotic surgeries to advanced 91 00:03:15,715 --> 00:03:16,694 EHR systems, 92 00:03:17,370 --> 00:03:19,689 technology remains both a make or break factor 93 00:03:19,689 --> 00:03:22,169 and a critical driver of ASC operations at 94 00:03:22,169 --> 00:03:22,669 scale. 95 00:03:22,969 --> 00:03:24,969 So how do you see deeper tech integration 96 00:03:24,969 --> 00:03:27,610 shaping the way ASCs deliver care and manage 97 00:03:27,610 --> 00:03:29,629 their business over the next few years? 98 00:03:30,169 --> 00:03:30,990 Tech integration, 99 00:03:32,085 --> 00:03:32,824 any tech 100 00:03:33,284 --> 00:03:34,824 is going to change an ASC. 101 00:03:35,525 --> 00:03:37,844 Many ASCs are behind the curve when it 102 00:03:37,844 --> 00:03:39,145 comes to digital technology. 103 00:03:40,085 --> 00:03:41,925 A lot of them are on paper still 104 00:03:41,925 --> 00:03:44,085 trying to figure out how to digitize with 105 00:03:44,085 --> 00:03:46,025 such an ever changing team. 106 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:48,640 Unlike in a clinic setting where everything is 107 00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:51,300 very stable, the staff and an ASC constantly 108 00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:54,180 turn over. You're using per diems. You're using, 109 00:03:54,640 --> 00:03:56,180 you know, temp agencies, 110 00:03:56,719 --> 00:03:58,719 things that do not make it as easy 111 00:03:58,719 --> 00:04:00,180 to do digital charting. 112 00:04:01,425 --> 00:04:03,104 ASCs that have figured out how to master 113 00:04:03,104 --> 00:04:04,884 that will continue to do better, 114 00:04:05,344 --> 00:04:07,284 and outperform the ones that haven't. 115 00:04:08,544 --> 00:04:11,824 And follow-up. Is there one specific technology or 116 00:04:11,824 --> 00:04:13,905 innovation that stands out to you as especially 117 00:04:13,905 --> 00:04:14,405 transformative? 118 00:04:15,669 --> 00:04:16,649 I would say digitizing 119 00:04:17,029 --> 00:04:18,889 your EHR. Even if 120 00:04:19,509 --> 00:04:22,709 your notes are paper, but you upload into 121 00:04:22,709 --> 00:04:25,189 a system to track, that is the only 122 00:04:25,189 --> 00:04:27,110 way you're going to know your true return 123 00:04:27,110 --> 00:04:27,850 on investment 124 00:04:28,175 --> 00:04:30,435 and how much your ASE is actually performing 125 00:04:30,495 --> 00:04:32,894 and where those gaps are. If you're doing 126 00:04:32,894 --> 00:04:35,375 paper and you're uploading into an EHR, it 127 00:04:35,375 --> 00:04:37,615 will help you. But if you actually chart 128 00:04:37,615 --> 00:04:40,355 in the EHR, it's golden. So 129 00:04:40,814 --> 00:04:42,595 digital EHR for sure. 130 00:04:43,270 --> 00:04:46,389 And with 60% of health systems considering ASC 131 00:04:46,389 --> 00:04:49,189 joint ventures and many ASCs already partnering with 132 00:04:49,189 --> 00:04:51,750 systems in their communities, what opportunities do you 133 00:04:51,750 --> 00:04:54,629 see for collaboration, whether with other providers or 134 00:04:54,629 --> 00:04:57,689 vendors, to strengthen patient care and operational efficiency? 135 00:04:58,470 --> 00:05:00,384 I think that's a tough question because 136 00:05:01,085 --> 00:05:03,245 sometimes when you're doing a partnership or joint 137 00:05:03,245 --> 00:05:05,805 venture, your goal and their goal do not 138 00:05:05,805 --> 00:05:08,285 align. So first and foremost, you wanna focus 139 00:05:08,285 --> 00:05:10,865 on making sure your internal goals all align, 140 00:05:11,085 --> 00:05:13,085 and then the external goals of this joint 141 00:05:13,085 --> 00:05:14,145 partnership align. 142 00:05:14,740 --> 00:05:17,000 You know, some of these private equity companies 143 00:05:17,220 --> 00:05:19,379 want to purchase an ASC, but have no 144 00:05:19,379 --> 00:05:21,300 way to get patients through the door. And 145 00:05:21,300 --> 00:05:24,180 that doesn't help the ASC, or they wanna 146 00:05:24,180 --> 00:05:27,319 focus on cost saving versus quality of care. 147 00:05:27,574 --> 00:05:29,814 So really making sure that any partnership that's 148 00:05:29,814 --> 00:05:33,175 going to happen, you evaluate your organizational goals 149 00:05:33,175 --> 00:05:33,675 first. 150 00:05:34,214 --> 00:05:37,175 But there are situations where it matters. And 151 00:05:37,495 --> 00:05:39,735 Yeah. Even if you want to strengthen that 152 00:05:39,735 --> 00:05:40,235 care 153 00:05:40,535 --> 00:05:41,915 or operational efficiency, 154 00:05:42,550 --> 00:05:43,770 you may wanna retire. 155 00:05:44,310 --> 00:05:46,470 And the goals might not align, but your 156 00:05:46,470 --> 00:05:48,090 retirement goal supersedes 157 00:05:48,949 --> 00:05:49,449 the 158 00:05:49,990 --> 00:05:52,090 issue of, you know, patient care efficiency. 159 00:05:52,470 --> 00:05:52,970 So 160 00:05:53,750 --> 00:05:55,925 Absolutely. Well, Aziza, thanks so much for joining 161 00:05:55,925 --> 00:05:57,845 me today. Is there anything we didn't touch 162 00:05:57,845 --> 00:05:59,365 on or any final thoughts you'd like to 163 00:05:59,365 --> 00:06:02,324 share? No. I think, really, first and foremost, 164 00:06:02,324 --> 00:06:03,145 as I said, 165 00:06:03,525 --> 00:06:04,504 goals first. 166 00:06:04,884 --> 00:06:06,485 What is it that you're trying to achieve 167 00:06:06,485 --> 00:06:07,384 with your ASC? 168 00:06:07,764 --> 00:06:10,245 And continue to try to be private practice 169 00:06:10,245 --> 00:06:11,064 if you can, 170 00:06:11,649 --> 00:06:13,490 and get creative. That that's the way to 171 00:06:13,490 --> 00:06:15,269 do this. Creativity is key. 172 00:06:15,889 --> 00:06:17,730 Wonderful. Well, thanks so much for being here. 173 00:06:17,730 --> 00:06:19,569 Again, we are recording live at the thirty 174 00:06:19,569 --> 00:06:20,870 first annual Becker's 175 00:06:21,250 --> 00:06:22,310 business and operations 176 00:06:22,689 --> 00:06:23,509 of ASCs. 177 00:06:23,970 --> 00:06:24,709 Thank you.