1
00:00:02,480 --> 00:00:05,299
Today's clinical providers and healthcare systems

2
00:00:05,599 --> 00:00:08,400
need a strategic partner that is focused on

3
00:00:08,400 --> 00:00:10,339
the evolution of healthcare delivery.

4
00:00:10,960 --> 00:00:14,000
At Surgery Partners, we are redefining the healthcare

5
00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:14,414
industry

6
00:00:14,894 --> 00:00:18,195
as a nation's leading independent operator of surgical

7
00:00:18,335 --> 00:00:20,434
facilities and ancillary services.

8
00:00:20,894 --> 00:00:24,574
With an extensive presence spanning over 180

9
00:00:24,574 --> 00:00:25,714
locations nationwide,

10
00:00:26,335 --> 00:00:28,515
our commitment extends beyond healthcare.

11
00:00:29,079 --> 00:00:31,339
It's about fostering successful partnerships

12
00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:33,799
that enhance the quality of care in the

13
00:00:33,799 --> 00:00:35,100
communities we serve.

14
00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:38,280
Surgery Partners is more than an operator or

15
00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:41,960
service provider. We are your strategic ally committed

16
00:00:41,960 --> 00:00:43,820
to transforming healthcare delivery.

17
00:00:44,565 --> 00:00:47,545
Learn more at surgerypartners.com.

18
00:00:50,085 --> 00:00:52,325
This is Laura Dierda with the Becker's healthcare

19
00:00:52,325 --> 00:00:54,484
podcast. I'm thrilled today to be joined by

20
00:00:54,484 --> 00:00:57,304
Jacob Rodman, chief executive officer at Raleigh Neurosurgical

21
00:00:57,524 --> 00:00:59,309
Clinic. Jacob, it's a pleasure to have you

22
00:00:59,309 --> 00:01:00,449
on the podcast today.

23
00:01:00,829 --> 00:01:02,689
Pleasure to be here. Thanks for having me.

24
00:01:02,909 --> 00:01:05,069
Absolutely. Now I know we're gonna get into

25
00:01:05,069 --> 00:01:06,609
some of the big things that are happening

26
00:01:06,829 --> 00:01:08,989
in the ASC industry as well as in

27
00:01:08,989 --> 00:01:11,469
spine and neurosurgical care. But before we do,

28
00:01:11,469 --> 00:01:12,750
can you tell me a little bit more

29
00:01:12,750 --> 00:01:13,844
about yourself and your

30
00:01:14,325 --> 00:01:15,605
background? Yeah.

31
00:01:15,924 --> 00:01:17,844
I've been been in my current role about

32
00:01:17,844 --> 00:01:20,005
fourteen years here with the clinic. I've been

33
00:01:20,005 --> 00:01:22,325
in health care leadership for about twenty five

34
00:01:22,325 --> 00:01:22,825
years,

35
00:01:23,525 --> 00:01:26,105
and, I've been in Raleigh about twenty years

36
00:01:26,165 --> 00:01:27,944
and, from Kentucky originally.

37
00:01:28,900 --> 00:01:30,420
Oh, it's great to hear. And, you know,

38
00:01:30,420 --> 00:01:32,899
definitely, awesome to have that kind of background

39
00:01:32,899 --> 00:01:36,099
in health care and leadership management too. So

40
00:01:36,099 --> 00:01:37,780
from your perspective, what are some of the

41
00:01:37,780 --> 00:01:39,619
top three trends that you're following in health

42
00:01:39,619 --> 00:01:40,965
care and ASCs today?

43
00:01:42,004 --> 00:01:42,744
I would say

44
00:01:43,045 --> 00:01:44,744
number one is anesthesia.

45
00:01:45,045 --> 00:01:46,325
I'm trying to sort out,

46
00:01:46,965 --> 00:01:49,364
how anesthesia works in the ASC and how

47
00:01:49,364 --> 00:01:50,744
to be efficient and,

48
00:01:51,204 --> 00:01:53,700
you know, work with the anesthesia teams that

49
00:01:53,700 --> 00:01:54,819
we have and,

50
00:01:55,299 --> 00:01:56,359
make sure they're adequately

51
00:01:56,659 --> 00:01:58,280
compensated and fairly compensated,

52
00:01:59,299 --> 00:02:00,819
while keeping an eye on the bottom line

53
00:02:00,819 --> 00:02:01,640
from the center.

54
00:02:02,020 --> 00:02:03,560
It's probably first and foremost.

55
00:02:04,900 --> 00:02:06,120
Secondly, really

56
00:02:06,944 --> 00:02:09,985
hoping the the government reopens and, gets Medicare

57
00:02:09,985 --> 00:02:11,205
payments flowing again.

58
00:02:11,824 --> 00:02:12,805
But more importantly,

59
00:02:13,185 --> 00:02:14,305
for 2026,

60
00:02:14,305 --> 00:02:16,405
there's some great proposals for spine,

61
00:02:17,585 --> 00:02:19,585
that is coming off the inpatient only list

62
00:02:19,585 --> 00:02:21,960
that, we can start doing some more cases

63
00:02:21,960 --> 00:02:23,819
in the ASC for Medicare patients.

64
00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:26,919
So really really hoping that comes through and

65
00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:28,620
stays stays the way it is,

66
00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:31,400
so we can still continue to shift some

67
00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:33,500
some cases out of out of the hospital.

68
00:02:34,439 --> 00:02:36,439
And third, I'd say is just really AI.

69
00:02:36,439 --> 00:02:38,995
You know, how can we utilize AI and

70
00:02:39,534 --> 00:02:40,915
make our center more efficient,

71
00:02:41,375 --> 00:02:43,795
help patients get the information they need,

72
00:02:44,575 --> 00:02:45,795
kinda where it fits.

73
00:02:46,335 --> 00:02:47,775
So for me, I'd say those are the

74
00:02:47,775 --> 00:02:48,514
top three.

75
00:02:49,389 --> 00:02:51,230
Absolutely. That's great to hear. And, you know,

76
00:02:51,230 --> 00:02:53,230
I I wanted to dig deeper into all

77
00:02:53,230 --> 00:02:53,950
of those themes,

78
00:02:54,510 --> 00:02:57,230
especially you mentioned anesthesia first. I know that's

79
00:02:57,230 --> 00:02:59,230
something that we have seen just a huge

80
00:02:59,230 --> 00:03:01,790
uptick in interest about and, you know, challenges

81
00:03:01,790 --> 00:03:04,365
for surgery centers across the board, whether it's,

82
00:03:04,525 --> 00:03:06,125
as you mentioned, you know, making sure you

83
00:03:06,125 --> 00:03:07,344
can find the right anesthesiologist

84
00:03:07,645 --> 00:03:08,625
and enough anesthesiology

85
00:03:09,004 --> 00:03:11,165
support and and leaders for the surgery center,

86
00:03:11,165 --> 00:03:13,645
but then, you know, how you can, develop

87
00:03:13,645 --> 00:03:15,504
those partnerships and and compensation,

88
00:03:16,525 --> 00:03:18,605
because it is a challenge. So can you

89
00:03:18,605 --> 00:03:20,780
tell us a little bit more about, some

90
00:03:21,159 --> 00:03:22,519
of the things that you've been,

91
00:03:23,159 --> 00:03:23,659
seeing

92
00:03:24,039 --> 00:03:25,979
and doing, to make all of that work?

93
00:03:26,759 --> 00:03:28,759
Yeah. We we had an external group for

94
00:03:28,759 --> 00:03:29,719
a while, and,

95
00:03:30,359 --> 00:03:33,000
they they did really well. Good partnership with

96
00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:34,459
them. And but

97
00:03:35,055 --> 00:03:36,194
we we got

98
00:03:36,895 --> 00:03:39,055
kinda they they're asking for some stipends, which

99
00:03:39,055 --> 00:03:40,514
we know is a national trend,

100
00:03:41,455 --> 00:03:43,314
and just needed clear data.

101
00:03:44,175 --> 00:03:47,055
So we actually transitioned July 1, ended up

102
00:03:47,055 --> 00:03:49,235
hiring our own anesthesia team

103
00:03:49,790 --> 00:03:51,629
that that works for the clinic, and so

104
00:03:51,629 --> 00:03:53,790
we're doing the billing and collections. And,

105
00:03:54,270 --> 00:03:55,889
and so it just kind of,

106
00:03:56,189 --> 00:03:58,030
for us, felt like it really aligned the

107
00:03:58,030 --> 00:04:00,349
incentives of the center of the practice and

108
00:04:00,349 --> 00:04:01,730
of the anesthesia team,

109
00:04:02,074 --> 00:04:04,314
kinda all be under the same umbrella and

110
00:04:04,314 --> 00:04:05,594
kind of on the same team, if you

111
00:04:05,594 --> 00:04:06,094
will.

112
00:04:06,794 --> 00:04:08,715
And we've we've seen that go really well.

113
00:04:08,715 --> 00:04:11,514
We've actually we're averaging about 14 cases more

114
00:04:11,514 --> 00:04:13,134
per month since we made that move,

115
00:04:14,074 --> 00:04:16,394
in the ASC. So we're really, really happy

116
00:04:16,394 --> 00:04:17,910
with that and pleased with the move.

117
00:04:18,790 --> 00:04:20,970
Absolutely. Wow. That's significant results,

118
00:04:21,350 --> 00:04:23,990
you know, just from that one switch. And

119
00:04:23,990 --> 00:04:24,949
when you look at,

120
00:04:25,509 --> 00:04:28,629
hiring your own internal anesthesia team, did you

121
00:04:28,629 --> 00:04:30,870
have to, you know, do anything differently from

122
00:04:30,870 --> 00:04:32,685
operations perspective, or,

123
00:04:33,165 --> 00:04:35,084
was it really just a matter of, you

124
00:04:35,084 --> 00:04:37,725
know, making those hires and and recruiting people

125
00:04:37,725 --> 00:04:38,464
in house?

126
00:04:39,404 --> 00:04:42,144
Yeah. We definitely had to make some adjustments,

127
00:04:43,404 --> 00:04:45,004
and and kinda get our team up to

128
00:04:45,004 --> 00:04:46,544
speed on the anesthesia billing,

129
00:04:47,165 --> 00:04:49,339
because we've never really did that before.

130
00:04:49,959 --> 00:04:51,259
We got plenty of anesthesia

131
00:04:51,639 --> 00:04:53,399
pain docs in our group, but mostly just

132
00:04:53,399 --> 00:04:55,800
doing office based and ASC based pain procedures.

133
00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:57,000
So it was,

134
00:04:57,639 --> 00:04:59,639
a big shift for our team to kind

135
00:04:59,639 --> 00:05:00,139
of

136
00:05:00,464 --> 00:05:02,384
modify our billing procedures to make sure we're

137
00:05:02,384 --> 00:05:03,285
getting that right.

138
00:05:03,985 --> 00:05:06,725
Thankfully, the we we found a great anesthesiologist

139
00:05:07,105 --> 00:05:09,665
who's kinda leading the efforts, and, he's been

140
00:05:09,665 --> 00:05:11,524
in this market for about twenty years.

141
00:05:12,064 --> 00:05:13,845
We knew him from the hospital previously.

142
00:05:14,199 --> 00:05:16,379
And so he he's fully versed

143
00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:19,800
in anesthesia billing and units and all the

144
00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:21,480
stuff that goes into it. So he's been

145
00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:23,720
a great asset. So I think having him

146
00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:25,399
on board to kinda lead the efforts has

147
00:05:25,399 --> 00:05:27,560
really been a game changer for us. I

148
00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:29,205
I can't say we would have done done

149
00:05:29,205 --> 00:05:31,464
it as well or been successful without them.

150
00:05:32,165 --> 00:05:34,645
Absolutely. Absolutely. That is so helpful to know.

151
00:05:34,645 --> 00:05:36,185
And just interesting to,

152
00:05:36,805 --> 00:05:39,365
think about having that right team in shift,

153
00:05:39,685 --> 00:05:41,819
you know, in leadership in place. And then

154
00:05:41,899 --> 00:05:44,160
when you look at averaging those 14 cases

155
00:05:44,220 --> 00:05:46,480
per month, after hiring your own team,

156
00:05:47,420 --> 00:05:48,960
is that primarily just

157
00:05:49,339 --> 00:05:53,500
aligning incentives and, seeing increased efficiencies because, you

158
00:05:53,500 --> 00:05:55,185
know, the team is internal? Or,

159
00:05:56,064 --> 00:05:57,665
I guess, what do you attribute that addition

160
00:05:57,665 --> 00:05:59,185
to? Because that that's a lot of cases

161
00:05:59,185 --> 00:05:59,845
per month.

162
00:06:00,704 --> 00:06:02,865
It is. And I think I think it's

163
00:06:02,865 --> 00:06:03,845
more about aligning,

164
00:06:05,024 --> 00:06:06,564
the vision for the center,

165
00:06:07,105 --> 00:06:08,084
and and having,

166
00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:10,879
you know, a steady hand that's it's the

167
00:06:10,879 --> 00:06:13,360
same anesthesia team that's preop in the patient,

168
00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:14,980
the same one to delivering care.

169
00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:17,360
One of the things we noticed with the

170
00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:19,439
external team and, again, the you know, they

171
00:06:19,439 --> 00:06:22,725
were great partners, for for several years. But

172
00:06:22,725 --> 00:06:25,444
there's oftentimes where one anesthesiologist would be do

173
00:06:25,444 --> 00:06:27,285
the preop for the patient, and then another

174
00:06:27,285 --> 00:06:29,285
one would be administering anesthesia on the day

175
00:06:29,285 --> 00:06:32,504
of surgery. And they didn't always align clinically,

176
00:06:33,605 --> 00:06:34,345
on the patient.

177
00:06:34,740 --> 00:06:36,979
And so we've that led to sometimes same

178
00:06:36,979 --> 00:06:37,720
day cancellations

179
00:06:38,099 --> 00:06:38,919
or rescheduling.

180
00:06:40,180 --> 00:06:42,500
So I think having the consist consistency now

181
00:06:42,500 --> 00:06:43,399
through the process

182
00:06:43,779 --> 00:06:46,180
and having our pre op nurse be able

183
00:06:46,180 --> 00:06:48,259
to go to one person kinda get some

184
00:06:48,259 --> 00:06:49,800
direction has been really beneficial.

185
00:06:50,865 --> 00:06:52,865
And then we've also noticed with the actual

186
00:06:52,865 --> 00:06:53,925
delivery of anesthesia,

187
00:06:54,785 --> 00:06:56,785
since it's, again, same team, they've been able

188
00:06:56,785 --> 00:06:58,725
to kind of customize some of the anesthesia

189
00:06:58,785 --> 00:07:01,185
delivery. So it's not quite cookie cutter like

190
00:07:01,185 --> 00:07:02,704
it is in some of the larger systems

191
00:07:02,704 --> 00:07:03,204
where,

192
00:07:03,529 --> 00:07:06,250
you know, my smaller procedure, minor procedure may

193
00:07:06,250 --> 00:07:09,050
not go as deep, with anesthesia, which, you

194
00:07:09,050 --> 00:07:09,550
know,

195
00:07:09,930 --> 00:07:12,410
leads to quicker wake up, quicker turnover, all

196
00:07:12,410 --> 00:07:14,509
those things. So it definitely increases efficiency.

197
00:07:15,714 --> 00:07:18,115
That's great to hear and, helpful to understand

198
00:07:18,115 --> 00:07:20,995
where those efficiencies are coming from. Now I

199
00:07:20,995 --> 00:07:22,294
I know you also mentioned,

200
00:07:22,595 --> 00:07:25,975
looking at current political climate with the government,

201
00:07:26,675 --> 00:07:29,894
shutdown and then, you know, how Medicare payments,

202
00:07:30,834 --> 00:07:33,259
have been challenged during this time. Of course,

203
00:07:33,259 --> 00:07:34,860
you know, a lot coming down the pipe

204
00:07:34,860 --> 00:07:35,680
too for,

205
00:07:36,300 --> 00:07:39,819
changes overall with Medicare and, just some of

206
00:07:39,819 --> 00:07:41,660
the policies happening. So can you talk a

207
00:07:41,660 --> 00:07:43,120
little bit more through that and,

208
00:07:43,819 --> 00:07:45,579
how you've been planning for the future when

209
00:07:45,579 --> 00:07:48,514
there are some uncertainties? Not really sure, you

210
00:07:48,514 --> 00:07:51,154
know, what's gonna happen and then what, changes

211
00:07:51,154 --> 00:07:52,134
are gonna stick.

212
00:07:53,074 --> 00:07:55,875
Yeah. So Medicare is about 40% of our

213
00:07:55,875 --> 00:07:58,535
our revenue stream. So any any disruptions

214
00:07:59,074 --> 00:08:01,415
to that, you know, are are pretty impactful

215
00:08:01,475 --> 00:08:02,214
on our practice.

216
00:08:03,759 --> 00:08:05,699
You know, so some of it's just been

217
00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:08,400
been planning, you know, and trying to save.

218
00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:10,740
You know, the, it doesn't,

219
00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:13,199
at least from my perspective, doesn't feel like

220
00:08:13,199 --> 00:08:15,220
we're anywhere close to a resolution.

221
00:08:17,024 --> 00:08:18,245
Hopefully, I get surprised.

222
00:08:19,264 --> 00:08:21,504
Both both sides seem to be pretty dug

223
00:08:21,504 --> 00:08:22,485
into the positions.

224
00:08:23,024 --> 00:08:24,785
And so I I think, you know, just

225
00:08:24,785 --> 00:08:27,504
navigating that with our bottom line and, you

226
00:08:27,504 --> 00:08:28,705
know, what we need to be doing as

227
00:08:28,705 --> 00:08:30,485
a practice to kinda circle the wagons.

228
00:08:31,199 --> 00:08:33,279
And but but really hopeful for the future

229
00:08:33,279 --> 00:08:34,960
with some of the changes that are coming.

230
00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:37,200
You know, hopefully, we can get get this

231
00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:39,679
shutdown behind us and get get the Medicare

232
00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:40,740
funds flowing again,

233
00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:43,440
and then really look to the future on

234
00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:45,360
how we can really take great care of

235
00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:46,580
patients in our ASC.

236
00:08:46,934 --> 00:08:48,375
So we are excited about some of the

237
00:08:48,375 --> 00:08:49,914
site of service changes coming.

238
00:08:50,375 --> 00:08:52,054
I think there's a huge opportunity there to

239
00:08:52,054 --> 00:08:53,355
really care for those patients.

240
00:08:54,134 --> 00:08:56,774
That's great to hear. And having those extra

241
00:08:56,774 --> 00:08:58,394
cases, I know, is always helpful,

242
00:08:58,855 --> 00:09:00,090
on a variety of fronts.

243
00:09:00,649 --> 00:09:02,809
And finally, when you talk about AI and

244
00:09:02,809 --> 00:09:05,370
mentioning that, becoming more efficient with it, that's

245
00:09:05,370 --> 00:09:07,070
something that came up a lot at our

246
00:09:07,210 --> 00:09:10,649
recent, ambulatory surgery centers conference in Chicago. You

247
00:09:10,649 --> 00:09:12,809
know? And I was a little bit surprised

248
00:09:12,809 --> 00:09:14,830
by that because I, you know, wasn't

249
00:09:15,195 --> 00:09:17,595
sure how much of, AI was on their

250
00:09:17,595 --> 00:09:19,595
radar for ASD leaders, but it seems like

251
00:09:19,595 --> 00:09:21,115
there's a lot going on and, you know,

252
00:09:21,115 --> 00:09:22,715
a lot of excitement in the space around

253
00:09:22,715 --> 00:09:24,795
what the potential is. So how are you

254
00:09:24,795 --> 00:09:27,750
thinking about things at Raleigh Neurosurgical Clinic? And,

255
00:09:28,269 --> 00:09:29,669
you know, what are you doing now? What

256
00:09:29,669 --> 00:09:31,509
do you anticipate will be the most helpful

257
00:09:31,509 --> 00:09:33,529
ways to, you know, make those AI

258
00:09:33,909 --> 00:09:34,409
investments?

259
00:09:35,509 --> 00:09:37,590
Yeah. So I I can tell you on

260
00:09:37,590 --> 00:09:39,909
the on the hospital based side, we've been

261
00:09:39,909 --> 00:09:42,570
using AI for stroke treatment for many years,

262
00:09:42,855 --> 00:09:45,575
company called Biz AI to kinda help, you

263
00:09:45,575 --> 00:09:46,955
know, read a CT and

264
00:09:47,495 --> 00:09:49,495
kinda give an indication if there's a large

265
00:09:49,495 --> 00:09:52,054
vessel occlusion or not, kinda real time. So

266
00:09:52,054 --> 00:09:53,894
we've we've had some experience with it on

267
00:09:53,894 --> 00:09:54,629
our stroke treatments.

268
00:09:55,750 --> 00:09:57,350
But we're we're using it now in the

269
00:09:57,350 --> 00:09:59,289
clinic in terms of the ambient software,

270
00:09:59,590 --> 00:10:00,889
ambient listening software,

271
00:10:01,669 --> 00:10:04,330
to help kinda streamline patient care visits.

272
00:10:05,110 --> 00:10:06,950
And we're trying to figure out how that

273
00:10:06,950 --> 00:10:09,590
can be applicable and apply in the ASC

274
00:10:09,590 --> 00:10:12,144
setting as well. We're not quite there yet,

275
00:10:12,845 --> 00:10:15,184
but we do think there's some some opportunities,

276
00:10:15,804 --> 00:10:17,884
whether it's through, you know, OTNotes or even

277
00:10:17,884 --> 00:10:18,865
just supplies,

278
00:10:20,125 --> 00:10:22,684
through the ordering and inventory process. So we're

279
00:10:23,485 --> 00:10:25,585
we've it's been a great

280
00:10:25,940 --> 00:10:27,320
ad in terms of the clinic,

281
00:10:27,940 --> 00:10:29,940
in terms of offices, it's in patient care,

282
00:10:29,940 --> 00:10:31,779
but we're trying to see what what the

283
00:10:31,779 --> 00:10:34,279
next iteration is. And, unfortunately, I don't have

284
00:10:34,580 --> 00:10:36,179
a real clear picture of what that looks

285
00:10:36,179 --> 00:10:38,339
like today, but we're we're exploring and having

286
00:10:38,339 --> 00:10:39,960
lots of conversations with folks.

287
00:10:40,795 --> 00:10:43,035
Interesting. It's just fascinating to see how quickly

288
00:10:43,035 --> 00:10:45,514
the technology is evolving on the clinical side

289
00:10:45,514 --> 00:10:48,154
as well as, on the operational side in

290
00:10:48,154 --> 00:10:50,875
where the applications make the most sense. I

291
00:10:50,875 --> 00:10:52,875
I think, you know, wanted to ask you

292
00:10:52,875 --> 00:10:54,795
now, when you're looking into the future, what

293
00:10:54,795 --> 00:10:56,919
are you most excited about? What is top

294
00:10:56,919 --> 00:10:58,039
of mind for you that you think will

295
00:10:58,039 --> 00:11:00,120
make a big difference for the practice and

296
00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:00,940
surgery center?

297
00:11:01,559 --> 00:11:02,840
Yeah. I I'm really just

298
00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:05,960
I love the opportunity to deliver care the

299
00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:07,259
way we do in our ASC.

300
00:11:07,799 --> 00:11:09,565
And it's kind of a, you know people

301
00:11:09,565 --> 00:11:11,164
use the word holistic, and I hate to

302
00:11:11,164 --> 00:11:12,764
overuse that because I feel like it's used

303
00:11:12,764 --> 00:11:15,884
incorrectly sometimes. But, you know, our our ASC,

304
00:11:15,884 --> 00:11:18,445
our clinic space, our office based angiosuite are

305
00:11:18,445 --> 00:11:21,105
kinda all cohabitated, so it's kinda one building.

306
00:11:21,410 --> 00:11:22,769
So we were trying to develop kind of

307
00:11:22,769 --> 00:11:24,309
a one stop shop for patients,

308
00:11:25,330 --> 00:11:27,350
where they can come, see their surgeon,

309
00:11:27,730 --> 00:11:30,129
get their nonoperative pain management if they need

310
00:11:30,129 --> 00:11:32,690
it. But, ultimately, if they do unfortunately need

311
00:11:32,690 --> 00:11:34,290
a procedure, we can take care of them

312
00:11:34,290 --> 00:11:36,549
kinda within the confines of our walls.

313
00:11:37,195 --> 00:11:39,595
And I'm really excited about, again, for the

314
00:11:39,595 --> 00:11:41,514
future with some of these Medicare changes coming

315
00:11:41,514 --> 00:11:43,695
and as we continue to develop the center,

316
00:11:44,394 --> 00:11:45,995
and expand cases. We've got some of our

317
00:11:45,995 --> 00:11:47,834
neurosurgeons that are really trying to figure out

318
00:11:47,834 --> 00:11:50,235
how to safely, you know, push the limits.

319
00:11:50,235 --> 00:11:51,730
You know, I look back some of our

320
00:11:51,730 --> 00:11:54,309
older surgeons thirty years ago, you know, when

321
00:11:54,529 --> 00:11:55,809
they a lot of them didn't even do

322
00:11:55,809 --> 00:11:57,809
fusions in the residency program, and now, you

323
00:11:57,809 --> 00:11:58,929
know, it's one of the top cases in

324
00:11:58,929 --> 00:12:01,029
neurosurgery neurosurgeons do today.

325
00:12:01,410 --> 00:12:03,570
So I think there's still some some more

326
00:12:03,570 --> 00:12:05,889
changes coming on other centers across the country

327
00:12:05,889 --> 00:12:08,125
that are doing a lifts and,

328
00:12:09,304 --> 00:12:10,504
o lifts and those type of things in

329
00:12:10,504 --> 00:12:11,404
their facility.

330
00:12:11,944 --> 00:12:13,865
North Carolina has not quite gotten there yet,

331
00:12:13,865 --> 00:12:15,384
but I am excited because I think we

332
00:12:15,384 --> 00:12:16,824
will be on the forefront of that in

333
00:12:16,824 --> 00:12:17,564
our center.

334
00:12:18,584 --> 00:12:20,264
And so I'm I'm really excited for the

335
00:12:20,264 --> 00:12:21,164
future and

336
00:12:21,590 --> 00:12:23,590
kind of the ASCs, I think, continue to

337
00:12:23,590 --> 00:12:26,710
be strong. And I think, finally, insurance is

338
00:12:26,710 --> 00:12:28,790
recognizing that, you know, they're the best place

339
00:12:28,790 --> 00:12:29,929
for patients to go,

340
00:12:30,710 --> 00:12:32,710
with the exception of, obviously, some cases that

341
00:12:32,710 --> 00:12:34,230
really do need to be in a hospital

342
00:12:34,230 --> 00:12:36,549
with an ICU setting. But short of that,

343
00:12:36,549 --> 00:12:38,804
I think people have recognized there's there's a

344
00:12:38,804 --> 00:12:40,585
big role for ASCs in the future.

345
00:12:41,365 --> 00:12:44,004
A 100%. There's just so much energy, it

346
00:12:44,004 --> 00:12:46,345
seems like, around figuring out the right dynamic

347
00:12:46,404 --> 00:12:50,539
for outpatient and how ASCs can complement other

348
00:12:50,539 --> 00:12:52,539
services. And as you mentioned, just have that

349
00:12:52,539 --> 00:12:53,200
high quality,

350
00:12:53,580 --> 00:12:54,799
high value care.

351
00:12:55,740 --> 00:12:57,820
Are you when you're looking at expanding these

352
00:12:57,820 --> 00:12:58,879
procedures, potentially,

353
00:12:59,500 --> 00:13:01,580
others coming into the ASC setting, do you

354
00:13:01,580 --> 00:13:03,659
see needing to expand your space at all,

355
00:13:03,659 --> 00:13:04,154
or,

356
00:13:04,475 --> 00:13:06,315
how are you thinking about growth of the

357
00:13:06,315 --> 00:13:07,215
physical operations?

358
00:13:08,555 --> 00:13:10,014
Yeah. I think we will.

359
00:13:10,475 --> 00:13:12,975
I think we've we've added,

360
00:13:14,075 --> 00:13:16,394
a team of eight providers to our pain

361
00:13:16,394 --> 00:13:18,529
service here in Raleigh, this year.

362
00:13:19,389 --> 00:13:21,629
And that's kind of maximized our space as

363
00:13:21,629 --> 00:13:22,929
it sits today. So,

364
00:13:23,629 --> 00:13:26,110
and we wanna have kinda everything under one

365
00:13:26,110 --> 00:13:28,429
roof. So, eventually, there will will be a

366
00:13:28,429 --> 00:13:30,209
need for some more space in the future.

367
00:13:30,865 --> 00:13:32,464
Not sure exactly what that looks like. We're

368
00:13:32,464 --> 00:13:33,764
also exploring some

369
00:13:34,225 --> 00:13:34,725
smaller,

370
00:13:35,345 --> 00:13:36,164
like, locations

371
00:13:36,625 --> 00:13:38,424
kind of in and around the triangle as

372
00:13:38,424 --> 00:13:39,985
a way to kinda offset some of that

373
00:13:40,144 --> 00:13:42,784
the space needs, but still kinda long term

374
00:13:42,784 --> 00:13:44,884
deciding what our what our future holds.

375
00:13:45,940 --> 00:13:48,339
Absolutely. The big decisions, but, you know, good

376
00:13:48,339 --> 00:13:51,320
ones for the growth of the practice overall.

377
00:13:51,940 --> 00:13:53,779
And just looking in the next twelve months,

378
00:13:53,779 --> 00:13:55,559
is there anything else that you wanted to

379
00:13:55,620 --> 00:13:57,480
share with us or can mention,

380
00:13:57,860 --> 00:14:00,085
about what growth looks like and how you're

381
00:14:00,085 --> 00:14:02,985
thinking about strategy in leadership in the future.

382
00:14:04,164 --> 00:14:06,965
Yeah. I think just for me, personally, it's

383
00:14:06,965 --> 00:14:09,605
kinda continuing to develop our leadership team. You

384
00:14:09,605 --> 00:14:09,924
know, we

385
00:14:10,884 --> 00:14:13,365
fourteen years ago, we're a small practice and

386
00:14:13,365 --> 00:14:15,480
kinda everybody reported to me in the clinic.

387
00:14:16,519 --> 00:14:18,600
We had eight total employees, and today we

388
00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:20,220
got about a 175.

389
00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:23,959
So kinda developing our our leadership team and

390
00:14:23,959 --> 00:14:25,720
giving them the tools they need to kinda

391
00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:26,220
lead,

392
00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:28,759
from the heart and lead in great ways.

393
00:14:28,759 --> 00:14:30,865
And I'm really excited for who we have

394
00:14:30,865 --> 00:14:32,625
in those roles and who we're gonna continue

395
00:14:32,625 --> 00:14:35,024
to recruit and grow with. So to me,

396
00:14:35,024 --> 00:14:37,345
it's really focusing on our leadership team and

397
00:14:37,345 --> 00:14:38,784
and kinda what they look like in the

398
00:14:38,784 --> 00:14:39,284
future,

399
00:14:39,664 --> 00:14:41,985
and giving them the the space and the

400
00:14:41,985 --> 00:14:44,325
grace to to fly and grow and develop.

401
00:14:45,169 --> 00:14:47,490
And I think that leads to excellent patient

402
00:14:47,490 --> 00:14:47,990
care.

403
00:14:48,450 --> 00:14:51,250
We're on target to treat about fifty five

404
00:14:51,250 --> 00:14:53,429
thousand, 56,000 patients this year.

405
00:14:53,809 --> 00:14:56,370
And, again, ten years ago, that number was

406
00:14:56,370 --> 00:14:57,509
three to 4,000.

407
00:14:58,024 --> 00:14:59,865
So we're we're able to kinda do a

408
00:14:59,865 --> 00:15:01,785
lot more today and touch and treat a

409
00:15:01,785 --> 00:15:03,065
lot more patients than we have in the

410
00:15:03,065 --> 00:15:05,325
past. And, to me, that's really exciting.

411
00:15:06,105 --> 00:15:08,105
That's amazing to hear. Jacob, thank you so

412
00:15:08,105 --> 00:15:09,785
much for joining us on the podcast today.

413
00:15:09,785 --> 00:15:12,264
It's been such a fascinating conversation. I appreciate

414
00:15:12,264 --> 00:15:14,700
your candidness talking about some of the things

415
00:15:14,700 --> 00:15:16,800
that you're seeing in the industry and how

416
00:15:17,019 --> 00:15:17,500
Raleigh,

417
00:15:18,139 --> 00:15:21,019
neurosurgical clinic will continue to grow. And, thank

418
00:15:21,019 --> 00:15:22,860
you again for your time today. I appreciate

419
00:15:22,860 --> 00:15:23,360
it.

420
00:15:23,901 --> 00:15:25,921
Happy to. Thank you again for having me.