1
00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,159
Hi, everyone. This is Brian Zimmerman with Becker's

2
00:00:02,159 --> 00:00:04,160
Healthcare. Thank you so much for tuning into

3
00:00:04,160 --> 00:00:05,620
the Becker's Healthcare podcast.

4
00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:08,559
Today, we're live at Becker's twenty second annual

5
00:00:08,559 --> 00:00:11,599
Spine Orthopedic and Pain Management Driven ASC in

6
00:00:11,599 --> 00:00:13,059
the Future of Spine Conference,

7
00:00:13,414 --> 00:00:15,335
and we're going to talk about navigating payer

8
00:00:15,335 --> 00:00:17,815
contract complexity in an era of health care

9
00:00:17,815 --> 00:00:18,315
consolidation.

10
00:00:19,094 --> 00:00:21,414
Joining me for this conversation is Brett Spark,

11
00:00:21,414 --> 00:00:23,814
cofounder and president with Auros Health. Brett, great

12
00:00:23,814 --> 00:00:25,734
to see you. Thank you. Thanks for having

13
00:00:25,734 --> 00:00:27,410
me. So let's get into it. For for

14
00:00:27,410 --> 00:00:29,570
folks who may not be familiar with you

15
00:00:29,570 --> 00:00:31,890
or or your work at Auroras Health, can

16
00:00:31,890 --> 00:00:34,530
you just introduce yourself, give some some details

17
00:00:34,530 --> 00:00:36,629
about your professional background, the work you're doing?

18
00:00:36,689 --> 00:00:39,774
Yeah. Sure. Brett Spark. I'm the president at

19
00:00:39,774 --> 00:00:41,234
Auroras, one of the cofounders.

20
00:00:42,094 --> 00:00:42,594
My

21
00:00:43,454 --> 00:00:44,515
health care career,

22
00:00:44,975 --> 00:00:47,134
started early on in health care administration for

23
00:00:47,134 --> 00:00:48,515
a large health system,

24
00:00:49,215 --> 00:00:51,795
regional health system in the Minneapolis area.

25
00:00:52,160 --> 00:00:53,060
And then I,

26
00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:55,520
after several years, moved into the private practice

27
00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:57,219
space, private practice administration,

28
00:00:58,160 --> 00:00:59,920
in a number of different levels and then

29
00:00:59,920 --> 00:01:02,820
started doing consulting in the same space after

30
00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:05,299
a a few different practice leadership roles.

31
00:01:05,954 --> 00:01:08,594
And then it became an entrepreneur, not something

32
00:01:08,594 --> 00:01:10,134
I I planned on doing,

33
00:01:10,435 --> 00:01:12,594
when I started my career, especially not in

34
00:01:12,594 --> 00:01:13,634
the health care lane,

35
00:01:13,954 --> 00:01:16,134
but figured out that there was an opportunity

36
00:01:16,834 --> 00:01:18,810
through my work in private practice space, there

37
00:01:18,810 --> 00:01:21,209
was an opportunity to help support practices with

38
00:01:21,209 --> 00:01:22,269
their payer relationships.

39
00:01:22,649 --> 00:01:24,729
And and that is really what the foundation

40
00:01:24,729 --> 00:01:26,590
of of our organization at Auroras

41
00:01:27,209 --> 00:01:28,969
is today is we we feel like we

42
00:01:28,969 --> 00:01:30,109
can help support

43
00:01:30,409 --> 00:01:31,629
resource needs.

44
00:01:32,105 --> 00:01:33,005
We can support,

45
00:01:33,385 --> 00:01:34,844
human intelligence needs

46
00:01:35,305 --> 00:01:37,645
within the private practice space to help them

47
00:01:37,784 --> 00:01:40,265
understand the complexities that exist within their payer

48
00:01:40,265 --> 00:01:41,245
provider relationships.

49
00:01:41,784 --> 00:01:43,545
Would you say just coming out of private

50
00:01:43,545 --> 00:01:45,545
practice too or any kind of private practice,

51
00:01:46,340 --> 00:01:48,840
independent organizations, you kinda need an entrepreneurial

52
00:01:49,140 --> 00:01:51,459
spirit? Do you think that it was sort

53
00:01:51,459 --> 00:01:52,899
of kind of a leapfrog thing for you

54
00:01:52,899 --> 00:01:54,899
or or Yeah. That I'd say? I tell

55
00:01:54,899 --> 00:01:57,379
a lot of people that my career really

56
00:01:57,379 --> 00:02:00,195
started with the corporate environment. I worked for

57
00:02:00,195 --> 00:02:02,454
a wonderful health system in in the Minneapolis

58
00:02:02,515 --> 00:02:04,055
area. It was a great experience.

59
00:02:04,515 --> 00:02:06,674
But then moving into the private practice lane,

60
00:02:06,674 --> 00:02:08,835
you wear multiple hats, and that's what first

61
00:02:08,835 --> 00:02:11,389
intrigued me with the role. And it really

62
00:02:11,389 --> 00:02:13,229
kind of made that first step into an

63
00:02:13,229 --> 00:02:16,189
entrepreneurial relationship where you you actually have to

64
00:02:16,189 --> 00:02:18,269
understand the business side of health care, the

65
00:02:18,269 --> 00:02:20,909
complexities that exist with it, what you're going

66
00:02:20,909 --> 00:02:22,289
for with certain KPIs,

67
00:02:22,944 --> 00:02:25,344
and then, obviously, starting your own business after

68
00:02:25,344 --> 00:02:27,905
that. I I kinda went through the cycles

69
00:02:27,905 --> 00:02:29,665
as you look at my career that was

70
00:02:29,665 --> 00:02:30,165
unplanned,

71
00:02:30,784 --> 00:02:33,205
but worked out really well from an experience

72
00:02:33,264 --> 00:02:35,844
standpoint leading me into starting my own business.

73
00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:37,740
Excellent. Well, here you are.

74
00:02:38,439 --> 00:02:40,360
Let's get into it now in terms of

75
00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:42,620
talking about sort of the consolidation environment

76
00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:43,980
and the challenges,

77
00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:46,780
that presents in terms of contract negotiations

78
00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:49,900
for, you know, independent practices, especially.

79
00:02:50,664 --> 00:02:52,824
What can these organizations do to really protect

80
00:02:52,824 --> 00:02:55,305
themselves, I guess, as they're navigating a potential

81
00:02:55,305 --> 00:02:57,384
consolidation and and what that means for their

82
00:02:57,384 --> 00:02:57,884
contracts?

83
00:02:58,425 --> 00:03:01,224
Yeah. I I think the contract challenges continue

84
00:03:01,224 --> 00:03:03,305
to get worse and worse. They've always been

85
00:03:03,305 --> 00:03:05,210
there. But I think the complexities

86
00:03:05,590 --> 00:03:08,710
around reimbursement and the different product levels continue

87
00:03:08,710 --> 00:03:11,689
to be more challenging for large or small

88
00:03:11,830 --> 00:03:13,370
organizations. Private practice

89
00:03:13,830 --> 00:03:15,830
struggle with this a lot just because of

90
00:03:15,830 --> 00:03:16,490
a resource

91
00:03:17,030 --> 00:03:17,530
underutilized

92
00:03:17,830 --> 00:03:18,330
resource

93
00:03:18,655 --> 00:03:20,034
layer, but even health systems

94
00:03:20,414 --> 00:03:23,235
struggle with just a volume of of contracts

95
00:03:23,294 --> 00:03:25,375
that are out there with all the different

96
00:03:25,375 --> 00:03:26,594
payers. The complexities

97
00:03:26,974 --> 00:03:29,534
that exist within them and the different product

98
00:03:29,534 --> 00:03:31,650
types that are there make it challenging for

99
00:03:31,650 --> 00:03:33,969
for any organization, large or small, to understand

100
00:03:33,969 --> 00:03:35,750
the dynamics that exist there.

101
00:03:36,050 --> 00:03:38,229
If you think of a a private practice,

102
00:03:38,610 --> 00:03:40,930
they're gonna have 15 to 20, you know,

103
00:03:40,930 --> 00:03:42,150
in network contracts.

104
00:03:42,689 --> 00:03:43,189
And

105
00:03:43,685 --> 00:03:44,685
to to ask,

106
00:03:45,125 --> 00:03:48,085
an organization that isn't, you know, rightfully suited

107
00:03:48,085 --> 00:03:50,965
with resources to understand the dynamics of each

108
00:03:50,965 --> 00:03:52,105
individual agreement

109
00:03:52,805 --> 00:03:54,485
and then take it a step further in

110
00:03:54,485 --> 00:03:56,805
saying, not only do those agreements have commercial,

111
00:03:56,805 --> 00:03:59,510
they have Medicare Advantage products, they have supplemental

112
00:03:59,569 --> 00:04:02,770
Medicaid products within them, and multiple commercial lanes

113
00:04:02,770 --> 00:04:04,469
within them. You're taking

114
00:04:04,770 --> 00:04:07,169
15 to 20 contracts, and and in all

115
00:04:07,169 --> 00:04:09,650
reality, it's it's 60 to 70 when you

116
00:04:09,650 --> 00:04:11,955
break down the complexities and and the need

117
00:04:11,955 --> 00:04:14,675
for understanding each of those to to generate

118
00:04:14,675 --> 00:04:17,254
revenue. So I think that's the biggest challenge

119
00:04:17,314 --> 00:04:20,435
that exists right now. It's it's looking at

120
00:04:20,435 --> 00:04:21,975
that volume of

121
00:04:22,514 --> 00:04:24,295
of agreements with the payers

122
00:04:24,629 --> 00:04:26,629
and having the resources set up to be

123
00:04:26,629 --> 00:04:28,710
able to understand them. And I think that

124
00:04:28,710 --> 00:04:30,629
is leading to a lot of organizations saying

125
00:04:30,629 --> 00:04:32,790
we just we can't succeed in in this

126
00:04:32,790 --> 00:04:35,290
environment. We have to look for other opportunities.

127
00:04:35,509 --> 00:04:38,009
And and the consolidation might be,

128
00:04:38,794 --> 00:04:39,294
within

129
00:04:39,995 --> 00:04:42,574
a a health system consolidation or private equity

130
00:04:42,634 --> 00:04:45,435
consolidation lane. But, also, there's a lot of

131
00:04:45,435 --> 00:04:47,995
of new opportunities that are popping up with

132
00:04:47,995 --> 00:04:52,170
MSOs, with IPA relationships that are valuable, and

133
00:04:52,170 --> 00:04:54,509
and they provide resources, not necessarily

134
00:04:55,449 --> 00:04:56,990
a a full scale sale.

135
00:04:57,290 --> 00:04:59,370
Yeah. Yeah. And to your point about the

136
00:04:59,370 --> 00:05:01,689
complexity of these arrangements, it's not like they're

137
00:05:01,689 --> 00:05:03,850
getting less complex either. It's sort of going

138
00:05:03,850 --> 00:05:05,935
the other direction. We're going the wrong way

139
00:05:05,935 --> 00:05:07,475
with a lot of these right now. Yeah.

140
00:05:07,775 --> 00:05:09,935
So speaking to that then, I guess, like,

141
00:05:09,935 --> 00:05:12,175
what kind of blind spots can organizations have

142
00:05:12,175 --> 00:05:13,475
as they're they're trying

143
00:05:14,175 --> 00:05:16,175
contract wise, where they may be missing the

144
00:05:16,175 --> 00:05:17,875
ball? Yep. I think

145
00:05:18,709 --> 00:05:21,050
it's it's a big area of challenge

146
00:05:21,509 --> 00:05:23,829
just because of the volume in which they're

147
00:05:23,829 --> 00:05:25,509
they're looking at these. A lot of the

148
00:05:25,509 --> 00:05:28,250
blind spots are just in the fact that

149
00:05:28,310 --> 00:05:30,550
practices look at their highest volume payer, and

150
00:05:30,550 --> 00:05:32,229
that's where they focus their attention because they

151
00:05:32,229 --> 00:05:34,514
can only look at one or two or

152
00:05:34,514 --> 00:05:36,675
three of them. So they focus on that

153
00:05:36,915 --> 00:05:38,375
on those, and they miss

154
00:05:38,675 --> 00:05:41,394
opportunities that exist with other payers that are

155
00:05:41,394 --> 00:05:43,795
in their their portfolio of relationships. So I

156
00:05:43,795 --> 00:05:45,955
think that's a big part of it, just

157
00:05:45,955 --> 00:05:48,520
your your lack of time and and resources

158
00:05:48,580 --> 00:05:50,660
to be able to understand all of them,

159
00:05:50,660 --> 00:05:52,040
not just the biggest ones

160
00:05:52,580 --> 00:05:55,080
because the opportunities might be with with others.

161
00:05:55,540 --> 00:05:57,860
But also looking at the front and back

162
00:05:57,860 --> 00:06:00,455
end of the relationship with with those individual

163
00:06:00,595 --> 00:06:03,154
agreements. So understanding the terms and conditions on

164
00:06:03,154 --> 00:06:05,014
the front end is is really important,

165
00:06:05,475 --> 00:06:08,435
but then having some level of a payment

166
00:06:08,435 --> 00:06:08,935
integrity

167
00:06:09,555 --> 00:06:12,115
platform or payment integrity process set up on

168
00:06:12,115 --> 00:06:14,435
the back end of those relationships to know

169
00:06:14,435 --> 00:06:15,800
if there's revenue

170
00:06:16,339 --> 00:06:18,819
leakage, if there are terms that the payer

171
00:06:18,819 --> 00:06:20,579
are are not keeping their end of the

172
00:06:20,579 --> 00:06:21,720
bargain up with.

173
00:06:22,339 --> 00:06:25,000
Those are things that allow a lot of

174
00:06:25,060 --> 00:06:27,860
of these lanes of of revenue to kinda

175
00:06:27,860 --> 00:06:29,379
creep out and not make their way to

176
00:06:29,379 --> 00:06:32,454
the practices themselves. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. And

177
00:06:32,595 --> 00:06:34,034
the the good news is, though, I I

178
00:06:34,034 --> 00:06:36,055
guess here, Brett, is that there is technology

179
00:06:36,354 --> 00:06:38,675
and and data available more so before for

180
00:06:38,675 --> 00:06:40,615
for these practices to leverage. So

181
00:06:41,074 --> 00:06:42,834
lot you hear a lot about having a

182
00:06:42,834 --> 00:06:44,615
data driven contract negotiation

183
00:06:45,100 --> 00:06:46,860
strategy. What does that look like in your

184
00:06:46,860 --> 00:06:50,699
opinion? An effective, I guess, contract analytics strategy

185
00:06:50,699 --> 00:06:51,819
is how to frame it. What does that

186
00:06:51,819 --> 00:06:54,300
look like? Yeah. I I say, you know,

187
00:06:54,300 --> 00:06:55,899
during a lot of the the talks I've

188
00:06:55,899 --> 00:06:58,625
had recently, I've said there's never been

189
00:06:59,164 --> 00:07:01,964
more data available specific to reimbursement in the

190
00:07:01,964 --> 00:07:04,604
health care link. You you can get anything

191
00:07:04,604 --> 00:07:07,404
that you want even down to transparency information

192
00:07:07,404 --> 00:07:10,544
that historically hasn't always been there. But

193
00:07:11,110 --> 00:07:14,229
having actionable data, data that's specific to your

194
00:07:14,229 --> 00:07:17,029
organization is where a lot of practices and

195
00:07:17,029 --> 00:07:19,430
and even larger health systems are challenged with

196
00:07:19,430 --> 00:07:22,069
utilizing the data to to make decisions off

197
00:07:22,069 --> 00:07:23,805
of it. I think the biggest

198
00:07:24,285 --> 00:07:26,944
opportunity from the data specific to negotiations

199
00:07:27,884 --> 00:07:30,204
is digital. You you have to move your

200
00:07:30,204 --> 00:07:32,704
contracts with these payers into a digital environment,

201
00:07:33,485 --> 00:07:35,245
and you have to do that to be

202
00:07:35,245 --> 00:07:38,464
able to layer in your practice specific information

203
00:07:39,009 --> 00:07:41,029
and get line of sight to where opportunities

204
00:07:41,250 --> 00:07:44,069
may be or where there might be leakage

205
00:07:44,290 --> 00:07:44,790
or

206
00:07:45,410 --> 00:07:47,810
a different understanding from what you thought that

207
00:07:47,810 --> 00:07:50,449
contract was actually set up. So we are

208
00:07:50,449 --> 00:07:53,009
in a age now where everything's digital. Your

209
00:07:53,009 --> 00:07:55,064
contracts with your payers should be in a

210
00:07:55,064 --> 00:07:56,045
digital environment.

211
00:07:57,064 --> 00:07:58,985
I I cringe when I when I talk

212
00:07:58,985 --> 00:08:01,305
to practice leaders who said they just spent

213
00:08:01,305 --> 00:08:02,285
the last quarter

214
00:08:02,745 --> 00:08:05,384
having an intern or having somebody within their

215
00:08:05,384 --> 00:08:05,884
organization,

216
00:08:06,850 --> 00:08:08,689
get all their contracts and fee schedules and

217
00:08:08,689 --> 00:08:10,529
put them into an Excel file so that

218
00:08:10,529 --> 00:08:12,930
they understand where they're at. And that's that's

219
00:08:12,930 --> 00:08:14,790
great. I'm I'm glad they're taking

220
00:08:15,170 --> 00:08:18,069
some initiative to look deeper into these agreements,

221
00:08:18,370 --> 00:08:20,370
but you also have to understand that they're

222
00:08:20,370 --> 00:08:21,029
not stagnant.

223
00:08:21,625 --> 00:08:23,785
They're they're going to change. The pricing is

224
00:08:23,785 --> 00:08:25,545
going to change with those even if the

225
00:08:25,545 --> 00:08:26,444
contract language

226
00:08:26,824 --> 00:08:28,665
doesn't change. So you have to put them

227
00:08:28,665 --> 00:08:30,685
into an environment where they can evolve,

228
00:08:30,985 --> 00:08:32,904
where you can have line of sight to

229
00:08:32,904 --> 00:08:35,085
to the changes in the the pure reimbursement

230
00:08:35,304 --> 00:08:37,210
pricing of each of those. Yeah. So I

231
00:08:37,210 --> 00:08:39,210
guess what you're laying out here, though, is

232
00:08:39,210 --> 00:08:41,450
really a holistic approach, which is different than

233
00:08:41,450 --> 00:08:42,889
just, you know, going out there and trying

234
00:08:42,889 --> 00:08:44,490
to get better rates. It's sort of a

235
00:08:44,490 --> 00:08:46,330
different different approach here. So, I guess, can

236
00:08:46,330 --> 00:08:46,990
you share

237
00:08:47,450 --> 00:08:49,370
a specific example of what this looks like

238
00:08:49,370 --> 00:08:51,690
when an independent organization is able to pull

239
00:08:51,690 --> 00:08:52,350
it off?

240
00:08:53,014 --> 00:08:53,514
Yeah.

241
00:08:53,975 --> 00:08:56,215
I think that's true. Every everybody wants to

242
00:08:56,215 --> 00:08:59,014
be paid more. They wanna be paid fairly

243
00:08:59,014 --> 00:09:01,095
for what they're doing. The big thing that

244
00:09:01,095 --> 00:09:01,595
we've

245
00:09:01,975 --> 00:09:04,375
learned within our organization, and and part of

246
00:09:04,375 --> 00:09:06,615
that is just scale. We we do hundreds

247
00:09:06,615 --> 00:09:08,809
of contracts a year, and it's all we

248
00:09:08,809 --> 00:09:09,309
do,

249
00:09:10,009 --> 00:09:12,089
is looking at the contractual side of the

250
00:09:12,089 --> 00:09:15,049
relationship with payers. And, yes, that does lead

251
00:09:15,049 --> 00:09:17,230
to to better rates, but,

252
00:09:17,929 --> 00:09:20,804
really, what you're looking for is a clear

253
00:09:20,804 --> 00:09:21,304
understanding

254
00:09:21,764 --> 00:09:24,485
at a code level, at a procedural level

255
00:09:24,485 --> 00:09:24,985
of

256
00:09:25,445 --> 00:09:28,325
where exactly and how exactly you're getting paid

257
00:09:28,325 --> 00:09:31,044
from each of these payers. One one example

258
00:09:31,044 --> 00:09:33,445
of that is we had a a client

259
00:09:33,445 --> 00:09:35,470
that came to us that said, you know,

260
00:09:35,470 --> 00:09:37,710
we have a really good contract with X

261
00:09:37,710 --> 00:09:40,429
Payer. You can insert name. They're whatever you

262
00:09:40,429 --> 00:09:42,910
want. So we don't wanna disrupt that, and

263
00:09:42,910 --> 00:09:44,990
we said, absolutely not. We we don't want

264
00:09:44,990 --> 00:09:47,230
to either. He said, we're getting, you know,

265
00:09:47,230 --> 00:09:49,769
over 200% of Medicare. And in that region,

266
00:09:49,769 --> 00:09:50,940
that was fantastic for a

267
00:09:56,004 --> 00:09:59,125
problem. When we went out and broke that

268
00:09:59,125 --> 00:10:00,184
agreement down,

269
00:10:00,725 --> 00:10:02,565
they were getting 200%

270
00:10:02,565 --> 00:10:05,524
of Medicare on about 5% of the actual

271
00:10:05,524 --> 00:10:07,019
volume that they were sending out.

272
00:10:07,580 --> 00:10:09,980
And the rest of their agreement with that

273
00:10:09,980 --> 00:10:13,100
payer was broken down in in different percent

274
00:10:13,100 --> 00:10:14,559
of Medicare based on

275
00:10:14,860 --> 00:10:15,600
on subcategory

276
00:10:15,980 --> 00:10:19,100
levels, some of which were a 105%,

277
00:10:19,100 --> 00:10:21,019
some of were a 150%.

278
00:10:21,019 --> 00:10:23,024
But the the point is it was all

279
00:10:23,024 --> 00:10:25,184
over the board, and the practice had an

280
00:10:25,184 --> 00:10:27,985
understanding of of one thing and missed an

281
00:10:27,985 --> 00:10:29,605
opportunity in another lane.

282
00:10:30,304 --> 00:10:32,804
In that same practice, they had a heavy

283
00:10:33,184 --> 00:10:34,165
APP environment,

284
00:10:34,625 --> 00:10:35,925
and they were getting

285
00:10:36,269 --> 00:10:39,470
70% of APP rates, which is well below

286
00:10:39,470 --> 00:10:42,430
what what you theoretically should get when you

287
00:10:42,430 --> 00:10:44,430
look at market rates for that. And that

288
00:10:44,430 --> 00:10:46,529
was just a a terms and conditions,

289
00:10:47,149 --> 00:10:49,870
understanding that they didn't know the dynamics that

290
00:10:49,870 --> 00:10:52,735
existed within it. So it it's important. Yeah.

291
00:10:52,735 --> 00:10:55,215
That's a that's a great example, to to

292
00:10:55,215 --> 00:10:57,934
ground the conversation with Brett. Is there anything

293
00:10:57,934 --> 00:10:59,695
you wanna share that we didn't touch on

294
00:10:59,695 --> 00:11:01,955
or anything, I guess, you might wanna reemphasize

295
00:11:02,095 --> 00:11:02,754
for listeners?

296
00:11:03,790 --> 00:11:06,429
Yeah. The the biggest thing is, you know,

297
00:11:06,429 --> 00:11:07,730
that the narrative

298
00:11:08,429 --> 00:11:08,929
historically

299
00:11:09,389 --> 00:11:10,049
has been

300
00:11:10,830 --> 00:11:12,750
payers set the rates. You you get what

301
00:11:12,750 --> 00:11:15,570
you get from a payer relationship perspective,

302
00:11:16,184 --> 00:11:18,504
And that's made it challenging to kinda break

303
00:11:18,504 --> 00:11:19,965
through the ceiling of saying

304
00:11:20,664 --> 00:11:23,225
you're you're still in a contractual relationship with

305
00:11:23,225 --> 00:11:25,304
these payers. And I think it's important to

306
00:11:25,304 --> 00:11:25,804
understand

307
00:11:26,424 --> 00:11:27,725
where you have opportunities,

308
00:11:28,429 --> 00:11:30,829
and they're gonna present themselves if you put

309
00:11:30,829 --> 00:11:33,789
the right resources in place, whether that's an

310
00:11:33,789 --> 00:11:36,850
external partner or you build the team internally.

311
00:11:36,909 --> 00:11:39,169
Both can can lead you to success.

312
00:11:39,709 --> 00:11:42,154
But it's now an age where you you

313
00:11:42,154 --> 00:11:44,175
have to look beyond just the regular

314
00:11:44,795 --> 00:11:47,195
revenue cycle management teams, the claims that are

315
00:11:47,195 --> 00:11:49,035
going out the door. You have to look

316
00:11:49,035 --> 00:11:51,115
at the front end of the relationship and

317
00:11:51,115 --> 00:11:53,455
and the payment integrity side of the relationship

318
00:11:53,514 --> 00:11:56,850
too, or you're gonna continue to to see

319
00:11:56,910 --> 00:11:59,710
margins shrink and and be more challenges long

320
00:11:59,710 --> 00:12:01,250
term for practices. So

321
00:12:01,550 --> 00:12:03,870
doing something is is better than nothing when

322
00:12:03,870 --> 00:12:05,790
it pertains to just the legal side of

323
00:12:05,790 --> 00:12:08,675
your relationship with payers. Certainly. Well, Brett, it

324
00:12:08,675 --> 00:12:10,435
was truly a pleasure speaking with you today.

325
00:12:10,435 --> 00:12:12,274
Thank you so much. Yeah. Thanks for having

326
00:12:12,274 --> 00:12:12,774
me.

327
00:12:13,154 --> 00:12:15,715
We also wanna thank our podcast sponsor, Aurora's

328
00:12:15,715 --> 00:12:17,634
Health. You can tune into more podcasts from

329
00:12:17,634 --> 00:12:20,215
Becker's Health Care by visiting our podcast page

330
00:12:20,355 --> 00:12:22,561
at beckerspodcast.com.