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The Becker's team is excited to announce the

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launch of our new CFO and Revenue Cycle

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podcast.

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Tune in for conversations with finance experts from

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the top hospitals and health systems. We'll discuss

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key trends and ideas to drive meaningful change

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in the industry. Look for Becker's CFO and

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Revenue Cycle podcast wherever you listen to episodes.

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This is Carly Beam with the Becker Spine

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and Orthopedic podcast,

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and I'm thrilled to be joined today by

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by doctor Philip Louie of Virginia Mason Franciscan

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Health. Doctor Louie, thank you so much for

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joining us. Before we dive into our main

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discussion, could you please introduce yourself and tell

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us a bit about your background?

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Yeah. Thanks for having me on today, Carl.

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So my name is Philip Louie, orthopedic spine

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surgeon out in Seattle, Washington, Virginia Mason Franciscan

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Health. My practice is predominantly minimally invasive sort

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of spine surgery, but I also have a

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huge interest in sort of the

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big picture

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of, medicine overall and spine and musculoskeletal

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care

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and and just using social media as dissemination

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of information

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in what is now 2025.

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Yeah.

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And you recently announced on LinkedIn that you're

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joining Wharton's executive MBA program. And I was

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wondering just kind of why you decided to

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invest in this, why now, and what you're

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supposed to get out of this as a

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submission.

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Yeah. I'm actually really excited for this. And

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I think that for me you know, everyone

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has a a different reason to to get

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an MBA.

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Obviously,

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people have their opinions as to whether positions

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really need it or or should take the

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time to get it. But

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I think there's a couple big areas spurred

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me, and and one is, you know, I've

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always been interested in how we define value

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in patient care.

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I know the term, you know, value based

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care is thrown around quite a bit. It's

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a little bit of a buzzword,

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but, you know, I I think that no

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one really

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understands it from a broad and holistic standpoint.

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And and that's one of my goals. Right?

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On a broad level, right, like, how we

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determine value is gonna determine how we get

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compensated in the future, and it's gonna guide

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how

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we even care for our patients. And on,

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like, a very micro level,

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right, we're always trying to better understand all

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these new enabling technologies

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that are coming in. And we have to

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figure out, like, in our practices and our

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hospital systems and to our leadership, like, what's

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the value of this technology or what's the

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return on investment and being able to sort

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of start patching the the micro

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value systems to the macro value systems that

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guide what we do. And I and I

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think the second area that really intrigues me

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is that, you know, health care seems to

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lag behind in a lot of different areas.

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And I and I think that ultimately, we

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can learn a lot from

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the other fields that are a bit more

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nimble than what health care is, and especially

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in musculoskeletal

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and spine care where it's really important to

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understand, you know, how we can continue

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to do things better and what technology can

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help us be more safe and effective on

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what we do.

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Just just sort of growing the network and

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learning from others to think outside the box

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a bit better

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and hopefully drive the the field forward a

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bit more.

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Absolutely. So it sounds like this education will

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really help fill in some

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gaps that you

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might not have had a little while that

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you might have now.

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Yeah. And I think we we we struggle

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to find time in our lives to read

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or learn, and

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this is just one way to force me

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to take some time if if I really

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believe it's meaningful and to devote some time

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and energy to it and then actually learn

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it better.

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Yeah. And I was wondering if you could

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talk about some of the

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top business challenges that you're seeing in your

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work. I know you did mention

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about value and spine care, but are there

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any other challenges that you're

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seeing? And what's your approach to tackling them?

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I mean, I I think if you look

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around even, you know, what you all publish

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and what's being written in sort of the

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mainline

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journals and and online and social media. We

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all have a lot of common struggles no

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matter sort of where we're practicing or what

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setting we're in. I think one of the

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biggest ones we deal on a day to

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day basis is how do we learn to

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do more with less,

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essentially.

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You know, staffing is more difficult. It's more

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expensive than what it used to be, and

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and what we're asked to do is growing

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and growing and growing. So, you know, how

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can we be a a better steward of

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our resources and and be more effective with

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what we have and and even diminishing

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to do more and do better than how

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we did before? I think that's the challenge

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that we're all facing.

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I think a second challenge that we face

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is, like, as you know in health care,

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there's just a lot of different stakeholders.

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And I and I think we find ourselves

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arguing with each other all the time trying

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to get on the same page.

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And so whether it's, like, the insurance companies

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and hospital leadership and the physicians and other

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providers or the patients themselves in the industry,

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like, we all sort of want to do

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the right thing,

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and we just have to do a better

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job of communicating with each other and and

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finding,

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you know, again, what where where do we

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find the greatest value and drives our work,

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and where can we find overlap to move

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things forward?

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You know, regardless if a physician

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has

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business training

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or not,

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what's a business skill that all spine surgeons

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should know?

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That's a really good question. You know, I

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I think if you, you know, you have

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you've been someone who's sort of interacted with

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a lot of spine surgeons.

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We are really good at identifying problems and

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making that known. Right? We're we're just in

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our nature, we we just complain a lot.

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And we think

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we're really good at identifying

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a whole series of possible solutions. Right?

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But I think where we struggle is, you

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know, how do we take our

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identification of problems,

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and then how do we get to these

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solutions? Right? So, like, taking an idea and

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turning into something that makes an impact.

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I I think there's a set of administrative

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skills that we, as surgeons, tend to lack

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in that area,

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and it makes us seem like we are

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just loud and complain and don't understand the

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process. And part of that is true. And

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so I think we just need to do

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a better job of once we've identified the

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problem and once we've sort of singled out

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some potential solutions,

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really learning to take a step back and

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figuring out, well, how do I go from

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point a to point b, c, and d,

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and who needs to be involved? And and

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who's all these different skill sets that we

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need to learn as far as part of

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the journey from the start to the finish.

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It sounds like it really ties back to

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what you're saying, Bob, just that taking a

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step back, really taking a a big picture,

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look at things, and

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then taking action.

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Yeah. Yeah. Easier said than done.

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Definitely. Definitely.

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And you had mentioned, in earlier in this

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recording

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that you've been very you're still very engaged

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with social media. And I wanna ask, you

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know, in 2025,

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as

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all different platforms, their algorithms are changing, they

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sometimes, you know, in The US, you know,

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TikTok has faced a potential

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ban. I'm wondering how you're

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adjusting your social media strategy

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to the ever changing landscape.

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Yeah. I mean, I I think that's something

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we have to understand is

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it's it's always changing, and we always have

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to be willing to adapt. I think that's

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part of the fun aspect of social media.

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Right? There's no

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blueprint or textbook or curriculum that will teach

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you how to best utilize

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social media, and there's no right way to

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do it because everyone sort of has a

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different way of approaching it, and it has

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to fit with, one, you know, what your

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hospital system will allow you to do, but,

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two, sort of your own personality and what

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you feel comfortable with.

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You know, I I think for me, it's

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it's always been about, well, how can I

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better educate patients?

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How do I better engage with my colleagues?

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And because of that,

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we sort of find ways to adapt as

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a community.

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Right? So it's not necessarily me trying to

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jump on the next trend.

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It's it's me trying to see,

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okay. Well, if this is happening, how do

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I maintain this community that we've developed? Right?

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How do we, you know,

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educate in ways that we can reach more

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people effectively, whether it be one platform or

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another?

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And how do we sort of bridge everything

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together so, like, everyone's interest and everyone's goals

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are sort of being achieved?

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But it's you just gotta keep your eye

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on on what we're allowed to do, and

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that we know is changing a lot.

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I really like your emphasis on the community

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aspect of your social media engagement. I mean,

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at the end of the day, it is

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it does start with the word social.

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Yeah. I mean, I I think that's the

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fun part about it. Right? I if you

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look back at, you know, the things we've

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done and what other my colleagues have done,

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it's, like, we've been able to meet so

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many people that we might not otherwise have

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met along the way.

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And it really is sort of developing different

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communities that you find interest

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and that, otherwise, you would never have been

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a part of.

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Absolutely.

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And my last question for you, doctor Louie,

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what are three health care trends that you're

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following closely?

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Yeah. I think from my angles, you know,

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I'm still pretty academic, and we do a

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lot of research. You know, one area that

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we're looking at is this patient reported outcomes.

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Right? We we track these all the time,

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and it's interesting to see how different stakeholders

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are are using that now.

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Alright. Whether they're in insurance companies or even

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our hospital leadership has identified,

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hey. These are metrics that are really important

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where we are just trying to capture as

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much as we can sometimes from research purposes

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to better understand how we're doing.

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But I I think one trend that I'm

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really trying to follow is, you know, what

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are the most meaningful quality measures

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that are going to be captured so we're

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not creating fatigue in these surveys and that

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all these other stakeholders are getting the information

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that they need as well rather than, you

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know, putting patients through, you know, ten, fifteen,

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twenty minutes of surveys

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so that they can try to answer small

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questions for everyone.

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You know, a second area would be

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a very common area of sort of artificial

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intelligence, but the way I look at it

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is, you know, it's it's there. And whether

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you agree with it or not, you know,

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people always ask, well, is, you know, artificial

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intelligence going to replace you?

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I don't think that it will ever replace

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us fully, but I do think that

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surgeons and physicians who understand

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and can apply and and utilize artificial intelligence

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will eventually replace those that cannot.

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And so I I think it behooves us

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to really understand

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what is happening in the AI world and

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safely

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and responsibly

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trying to adopt

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these various technologies and these practices. And then

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we just need to do a better job

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of communicating to our patients and understanding where

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they feel comfortable because

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I I think we all know it's a

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wave that's coming, but we can do a

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good job of responsibly adopting it. And then

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the third area is sort of tied to

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my first, and that's

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you know,

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there's so much focus right now in the

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financial health care landscape and cost arising, and

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we need to help more people, and we

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just need to do more.

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We have all these goals and targets.

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But we also have to remember, like, we

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have a responsibility

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to

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sort of train the next generation and sort

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of continue to contribute to our body of

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knowledge as a field. So,

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you know, it's something I'm keeping my eye

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on and as, you know, as as the

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financial landscape in health care changes a little

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bit, you know, how do we

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attract people to,

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like, continue to innovate, right, continue to provide

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the best quality of care to their patients,

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but also dedicate time to train that next

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generation, whether it be undergrad, medical students, residents,

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fellows,

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and be willing to, like, add to the

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body of knowledge. Right? Like, I I think

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doing all four of those things

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are gonna be really important to not just

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sort of providing care as it is now

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and in the future, but kind of pushing

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the field forward.

343
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Yeah. And I just wanna ask a quick

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follow-up question.

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Very simply,

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are you

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nervous or optimistic

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when you think about the next generation of

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spine surgeons?

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I am

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cautiously optimistic. Right? I I think that

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when we face a lot of struggles, we

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are forced to innovate.

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And I think that if you ask a

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lot of spine surgeons,

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you know, their perception of the current state

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of spine care, musculoskeletal

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care,

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a lot of people will answer, hey. We

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are at this point

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that changes need to happen.

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And and I think that's where my optimism

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arises from is that, you know, this is,

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like, the perfect breeding grounds for innovation right

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now because a lot of us feel like

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our backs are are up against the wall.

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But it is still a bit cautious because

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you can't just wildly take

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uncalculated

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risks.

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Right? And in our world, anytime you innovate,

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there's always some cost. And and, you know,

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that cost can be a financial cost,

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but could it also be a a cost

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in the safety or the effectiveness of the

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care that we're providing?

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So can we sort of

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innovate responsibly in the future? I really hope

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so, and I think we can, but we

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just sort of need to, you know, come

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together and do it the right way.

382
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Yeah. Sounds like a very, very

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mindful type of cautious optimism

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from what I'm understanding.

385
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Yeah.

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Yeah.

387
00:13:36,850 --> 00:13:39,250
Well, thank you so much for joining us

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today, doctor Louie. It's been a pleasure speaking

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with you, and I look forward to connecting

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again in the future.

391
00:13:44,894 --> 00:13:46,514
Alright. Sounds good. Thanks so much.

392
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Thank you.