1 00:00:00,560 --> 00:00:02,720 So this is Alan Condon with the Beckers 2 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:05,120 Podcast, and I'm thrilled to be joined today 3 00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:08,240 by Mark Davis, a young professor at the 4 00:00:08,240 --> 00:00:11,139 Foresight Institute in Cambridge, Massachusetts. 5 00:00:11,679 --> 00:00:14,535 He's also the former chief operating officer of 6 00:00:14,535 --> 00:00:16,154 the Miami Cancer Institute 7 00:00:16,695 --> 00:00:18,714 of Baptist Health South Florida. 8 00:00:19,094 --> 00:00:20,614 Mark, it's pleasure to have you on the 9 00:00:20,614 --> 00:00:21,914 podcast with us today. 10 00:00:22,454 --> 00:00:23,974 For folks who might not be as acquainted 11 00:00:23,974 --> 00:00:25,494 with you or your background, do you mind 12 00:00:25,494 --> 00:00:26,654 taking a beat to give us a little 13 00:00:26,654 --> 00:00:28,375 bit more insight into your role and, at 14 00:00:28,375 --> 00:00:28,875 the 15 00:00:29,309 --> 00:00:31,710 and, obviously, of course, previous role at the 16 00:00:31,710 --> 00:00:32,929 Miami Cancer Institute? 17 00:00:34,109 --> 00:00:36,509 Sure, Alan. It's really great to speak with 18 00:00:36,509 --> 00:00:38,049 you and to be on the podcast. 19 00:00:38,590 --> 00:00:40,750 I'll start just by saying how much I've 20 00:00:40,750 --> 00:00:43,250 enjoyed Becker's both, as a speaker 21 00:00:43,565 --> 00:00:44,625 and as a participant, 22 00:00:45,005 --> 00:00:46,304 and appreciate the 23 00:00:46,685 --> 00:00:49,484 the really in-depth information, and and very pleased 24 00:00:49,484 --> 00:00:50,385 to be here today. 25 00:00:51,005 --> 00:00:53,325 So, yeah, to my background, I'm actually in 26 00:00:53,325 --> 00:00:56,865 emergency physician by background. And as you mentioned, 27 00:00:58,039 --> 00:00:59,820 I my most previous, 28 00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:02,840 role as an executive was the chief operating 29 00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:05,640 officer, what's now the largest cancer program in 30 00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:06,140 Florida, 31 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:09,319 where we had the opportunity to do an 32 00:01:09,319 --> 00:01:12,060 operational turnaround of a really a terrific program, 33 00:01:12,765 --> 00:01:16,465 leading to 92% patient satisfaction with a very 34 00:01:16,525 --> 00:01:17,025 significant, 35 00:01:17,484 --> 00:01:17,984 margin 36 00:01:18,525 --> 00:01:19,025 turnaround. 37 00:01:19,325 --> 00:01:21,724 I'm sure we'll discuss some of the details 38 00:01:21,724 --> 00:01:23,564 of these trends and how that can be 39 00:01:23,564 --> 00:01:24,540 accomplished today. 40 00:01:25,420 --> 00:01:27,520 And then was at Brigham Women's Hospital, 41 00:01:28,859 --> 00:01:30,939 as an emergency physician, built a global health 42 00:01:30,939 --> 00:01:31,439 program, 43 00:01:31,980 --> 00:01:33,819 was actually at NASA for a few years 44 00:01:33,819 --> 00:01:36,480 before that, and ultimately vice president at 45 00:01:36,954 --> 00:01:39,674 Brigham and, Harvard faculty for a number of 46 00:01:39,674 --> 00:01:40,174 years. 47 00:01:41,435 --> 00:01:43,375 So I've been very fortunate 48 00:01:44,314 --> 00:01:45,854 to have various perspectives 49 00:01:46,314 --> 00:01:48,415 to to look at our health care world, 50 00:01:49,194 --> 00:01:50,174 today, including 51 00:01:50,879 --> 00:01:53,620 advising a number of different health systems and, 52 00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:55,519 investors and, 53 00:01:56,159 --> 00:01:57,859 companies looking to really 54 00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:00,319 accomplish what I think is our true north, 55 00:02:00,319 --> 00:02:01,599 which is, you know, how do we have 56 00:02:01,599 --> 00:02:05,040 the absolute best patient experience and best patient 57 00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:07,605 outcomes. So again, happy to be with you. 58 00:02:08,465 --> 00:02:10,224 Yeah. Absolutely. And thanks so much for the 59 00:02:10,224 --> 00:02:12,385 the breakdown. Maybe this will influence your role, 60 00:02:12,385 --> 00:02:13,125 your background. 61 00:02:13,905 --> 00:02:16,224 Mark, so let's dive right in. You know, 62 00:02:16,224 --> 00:02:17,824 no secret to you, to any of our 63 00:02:17,824 --> 00:02:18,002 listeners, 64 00:02:19,299 --> 00:02:21,939 many different challenges, different trends going on in 65 00:02:21,939 --> 00:02:22,919 health care today. 66 00:02:23,299 --> 00:02:25,159 We're coming up towards the end of 2024, 67 00:02:25,459 --> 00:02:27,060 a lot of folks looking ahead to next 68 00:02:27,060 --> 00:02:30,180 year. What are the 2 or 3 key 69 00:02:30,180 --> 00:02:32,419 trends that you're following in health care space 70 00:02:32,419 --> 00:02:33,799 today and why? 71 00:02:34,645 --> 00:02:35,844 Well, you know, I I'd like to take 72 00:02:35,844 --> 00:02:37,444 a step back on this because I think 73 00:02:37,444 --> 00:02:40,665 it helps frame our very specific and disciplined 74 00:02:40,724 --> 00:02:42,245 approaches to things. I was just at the 75 00:02:42,245 --> 00:02:45,305 Becker's ASC conference, which was excellent as usual. 76 00:02:46,004 --> 00:02:47,844 And I think it's worthwhile for us to 77 00:02:47,844 --> 00:02:48,585 talk about, 78 00:02:49,050 --> 00:02:51,290 you know, the biggest trend and the biggest 79 00:02:51,290 --> 00:02:52,669 change is the continual 80 00:02:53,370 --> 00:02:56,590 advancement of expectations. And I've seen this whether 81 00:02:57,050 --> 00:02:59,129 it was in the global programs around the 82 00:02:59,129 --> 00:03:00,349 world or domestically, 83 00:03:01,689 --> 00:03:04,645 that that we all rise to really the 84 00:03:04,645 --> 00:03:06,264 level of what expectations 85 00:03:06,564 --> 00:03:07,944 are. And I think that 86 00:03:08,485 --> 00:03:11,625 the level of patient's expectations and societal 87 00:03:12,004 --> 00:03:14,905 expectations in terms of performance are very high. 88 00:03:15,205 --> 00:03:16,324 There's a very, 89 00:03:16,645 --> 00:03:17,145 inherent 90 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:20,159 sense from all of us dedicated to health 91 00:03:20,159 --> 00:03:22,740 care that we want to really achieve, 92 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:25,439 do the best for our patients. And what 93 00:03:25,439 --> 00:03:26,580 we're seeing is 94 00:03:27,039 --> 00:03:28,419 more pressure on 95 00:03:28,719 --> 00:03:29,939 the really strategic 96 00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:30,979 and operational 97 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:32,580 delivery side of things, 98 00:03:33,585 --> 00:03:36,145 that we we have this trend that that 99 00:03:36,145 --> 00:03:37,525 we're gonna need to 100 00:03:37,905 --> 00:03:40,305 really adopt some of the practices in other 101 00:03:40,305 --> 00:03:43,105 kinds of industries to see the level of 102 00:03:43,105 --> 00:03:45,444 success that that is possible, 103 00:03:45,905 --> 00:03:47,044 within health care. 104 00:03:47,370 --> 00:03:50,269 Of course, we all see the new administration 105 00:03:50,489 --> 00:03:52,650 coming in, you know, what's gonna happen with 106 00:03:52,650 --> 00:03:53,389 the stress, 107 00:03:53,769 --> 00:03:54,509 the reimbursements, 108 00:03:55,049 --> 00:03:57,469 something all of us are watching carefully. 109 00:03:58,169 --> 00:04:00,989 And I think that there's an increased recognition 110 00:04:01,129 --> 00:04:02,669 of the importance of culture, 111 00:04:03,735 --> 00:04:07,014 in in be being successful. I wrote a 112 00:04:07,014 --> 00:04:09,655 piece about, which I entitled flipping the org 113 00:04:09,655 --> 00:04:12,775 chart. The idea that our frontline folks often 114 00:04:12,775 --> 00:04:14,534 have the best insights as to what we 115 00:04:14,534 --> 00:04:16,074 need to do, but what that means 116 00:04:16,579 --> 00:04:19,240 is working through a a very disciplined process 117 00:04:19,779 --> 00:04:22,579 of defining our goals, our objectives. What are 118 00:04:22,579 --> 00:04:24,899 the metrics of success, and how do we 119 00:04:24,899 --> 00:04:26,279 follow those? So, 120 00:04:27,300 --> 00:04:27,939 there there 121 00:04:28,579 --> 00:04:30,254 the the the trends are, 122 00:04:30,814 --> 00:04:34,014 I think, show both opportunity and threat, and 123 00:04:34,014 --> 00:04:35,875 it's important that we we're very, 124 00:04:36,495 --> 00:04:38,514 open eyed about how to address them. 125 00:04:39,055 --> 00:04:40,975 Yeah. It's such an interesting point that you 126 00:04:40,975 --> 00:04:43,694 make. And I guess but is it isn't 127 00:04:43,694 --> 00:04:45,050 it too far to say 128 00:04:45,669 --> 00:04:47,529 that the rise in consumerism 129 00:04:49,269 --> 00:04:51,370 is kind of playing into this, I guess, 130 00:04:51,430 --> 00:04:51,930 increased 131 00:04:52,310 --> 00:04:54,250 expectations on the part of patients 132 00:04:54,709 --> 00:04:55,529 slash consumers? 133 00:04:57,029 --> 00:04:58,709 As we're in this era now, as more 134 00:04:58,709 --> 00:05:01,675 and more patients are continuing to, quote unquote, 135 00:05:01,735 --> 00:05:03,894 shop for the best care out there, I'm 136 00:05:03,894 --> 00:05:05,334 curious. Is this, kind of, something that you 137 00:05:05,334 --> 00:05:07,014 see playing into this trend and, kind of, 138 00:05:07,014 --> 00:05:08,294 how you might see it evolving in the 139 00:05:08,294 --> 00:05:09,115 coming years? 140 00:05:10,375 --> 00:05:12,134 Yeah. Without question, I think it's a great 141 00:05:12,134 --> 00:05:13,034 point. And 142 00:05:13,490 --> 00:05:15,170 and I and there's a a lot of 143 00:05:15,170 --> 00:05:18,230 very good things about that. Right? Because informed 144 00:05:18,290 --> 00:05:19,670 patients are are, 145 00:05:20,050 --> 00:05:21,269 you know, extraordinarily 146 00:05:22,050 --> 00:05:22,550 useful, 147 00:05:23,170 --> 00:05:25,430 in terms of their determining their health care 148 00:05:25,569 --> 00:05:26,985 and in terms of helping us 149 00:05:27,784 --> 00:05:29,164 deliver the best possible 150 00:05:30,425 --> 00:05:33,625 experience and product. And, you know, part of 151 00:05:33,625 --> 00:05:35,644 this also is to be sure 152 00:05:36,344 --> 00:05:37,164 that we 153 00:05:37,944 --> 00:05:41,750 present information in ways that patients can really 154 00:05:41,750 --> 00:05:44,569 understand as they take their lessons from being 155 00:05:45,349 --> 00:05:46,569 educated consumers. 156 00:05:47,269 --> 00:05:49,430 And we often see those of us who 157 00:05:49,430 --> 00:05:51,769 have practiced over the years or administrators 158 00:05:53,084 --> 00:05:55,884 that people come with various levels of, 159 00:05:56,285 --> 00:05:58,764 information, and some of that information has varying 160 00:05:58,764 --> 00:05:59,904 qualities. And 161 00:06:00,365 --> 00:06:02,144 I did a study early in my career 162 00:06:02,365 --> 00:06:05,245 looking at risk tolerance of patients, and what 163 00:06:05,245 --> 00:06:06,439 became very clear 164 00:06:06,819 --> 00:06:08,899 is that the language that we use is 165 00:06:08,899 --> 00:06:09,720 very different 166 00:06:10,259 --> 00:06:11,800 than the language that patients, 167 00:06:12,339 --> 00:06:14,259 really can relate to. I think that's a 168 00:06:14,259 --> 00:06:16,819 lesson that we all understand to a certain 169 00:06:16,819 --> 00:06:17,319 extent. 170 00:06:17,779 --> 00:06:18,439 The details 171 00:06:19,060 --> 00:06:19,879 really bear 172 00:06:20,314 --> 00:06:22,314 a significant amount of effort to be sure 173 00:06:22,314 --> 00:06:25,694 that we have the most, well informed patients, 174 00:06:26,154 --> 00:06:26,894 as possible. 175 00:06:27,995 --> 00:06:29,995 Absolutely. And then to go back to a 176 00:06:29,995 --> 00:06:30,974 point you mentioned 177 00:06:31,274 --> 00:06:32,175 in the introduction, 178 00:06:32,639 --> 00:06:34,240 correct me if I'm wrong here, I believe 179 00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:37,060 you had mentioned the really driving a 92 180 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:39,779 or so percent increase in patient satisfaction. 181 00:06:40,319 --> 00:06:42,479 I believe at the Miami Cancer Institute from 182 00:06:42,479 --> 00:06:43,860 when you took over as COO. 183 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:46,319 I'd love for you to first of all, 184 00:06:46,319 --> 00:06:48,314 am I correct in that figure, 92%? And 185 00:06:48,314 --> 00:06:49,595 also, I'd love to kind of get a 186 00:06:49,595 --> 00:06:51,214 little bit more insight into, 187 00:06:51,834 --> 00:06:53,675 what were the strategies, the key learnings and 188 00:06:53,675 --> 00:06:54,894 successes from that? 189 00:06:55,754 --> 00:06:58,574 Well, it's interesting that that is so we 190 00:06:58,875 --> 00:07:00,175 achieved up to 92% 191 00:07:00,795 --> 00:07:03,153 and that BAPS cell system has a that 192 00:07:03,153 --> 00:07:05,339 that that's how South Florida, a great focus 193 00:07:05,339 --> 00:07:07,740 on patient satisfaction. And a lot of great 194 00:07:07,740 --> 00:07:08,959 work happened certainly, 195 00:07:09,819 --> 00:07:12,220 before I was there over the last several 196 00:07:12,220 --> 00:07:12,720 years. 197 00:07:13,420 --> 00:07:15,519 I left about, 6 months ago. 198 00:07:16,465 --> 00:07:18,564 And I think a lot of this is 199 00:07:18,865 --> 00:07:21,345 determining, number 1, that we're really going to 200 00:07:21,345 --> 00:07:23,045 focus on it, that it's a priority, 201 00:07:23,745 --> 00:07:26,004 and that we established a process 202 00:07:26,384 --> 00:07:29,264 of, again, bringing in frontline people. The people 203 00:07:29,264 --> 00:07:31,605 that are, you know, receiving patients 204 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:35,159 in, you know, at the front desk are 205 00:07:35,159 --> 00:07:38,300 security officers. What, you know, what kinda what's 206 00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:41,319 been the experience? I, as the COO, the 207 00:07:41,399 --> 00:07:42,539 on the first day, 208 00:07:43,159 --> 00:07:45,745 walked through the building as a patient or 209 00:07:45,745 --> 00:07:48,165 as a, you know, as a patient might, 210 00:07:48,625 --> 00:07:50,785 and looked in sort of with a lean 211 00:07:50,785 --> 00:07:52,144 based kind of, 212 00:07:52,545 --> 00:07:55,264 eye, is every step along the patient journey 213 00:07:55,264 --> 00:07:56,084 really necessary, 214 00:07:56,545 --> 00:07:57,285 for example? 215 00:07:58,225 --> 00:08:00,029 You know, where are the delays? How are 216 00:08:00,029 --> 00:08:02,289 people how are we all treating each other? 217 00:08:02,509 --> 00:08:04,669 And then we we did introduce certain, I 218 00:08:04,669 --> 00:08:07,149 think, kinda novel programs. One was called 10, 219 00:08:07,149 --> 00:08:07,970 5, Assist. 220 00:08:08,990 --> 00:08:10,050 At 10 feet, 221 00:08:10,589 --> 00:08:11,329 you acknowledge, 222 00:08:11,789 --> 00:08:13,725 you know, everyone that's in front of you. 223 00:08:13,725 --> 00:08:15,185 At 5 feet, you say hello. 224 00:08:15,645 --> 00:08:17,245 And then if you look when you see 225 00:08:17,245 --> 00:08:20,685 anyone anytime who seems confused or or or 226 00:08:20,685 --> 00:08:22,285 doesn't know where to go, that you actually 227 00:08:22,285 --> 00:08:23,745 walk them to their destination. 228 00:08:24,285 --> 00:08:25,805 And so I think it gets back to 229 00:08:25,805 --> 00:08:27,264 the whole idea of culture, 230 00:08:28,290 --> 00:08:31,250 that our patients are why we are there, 231 00:08:31,250 --> 00:08:31,910 the whole, 232 00:08:32,370 --> 00:08:33,669 sense of just culture, 233 00:08:34,049 --> 00:08:35,350 and to embrace 234 00:08:35,970 --> 00:08:36,470 when 235 00:08:36,769 --> 00:08:38,610 anybody on our team says that there's a 236 00:08:38,610 --> 00:08:41,585 problem and not be punitive, but be appreciative. 237 00:08:42,365 --> 00:08:44,044 There's just a lot of low hanging fruit 238 00:08:44,044 --> 00:08:45,725 that we can learn with that sort of 239 00:08:45,725 --> 00:08:46,225 approach 240 00:08:46,764 --> 00:08:48,465 and address with that approach. 241 00:08:49,165 --> 00:08:50,845 A 100%. And I I can't think I 242 00:08:50,845 --> 00:08:53,004 know you were at our Vectors ASC conference 243 00:08:53,004 --> 00:08:55,529 not too long ago. Culture the word culture 244 00:08:55,529 --> 00:08:58,090 came up time and time again amongst, leaders 245 00:08:58,090 --> 00:09:00,190 during various of our panels during that event. 246 00:09:00,250 --> 00:09:02,649 Also, at our CEO and CFO conference with, 247 00:09:02,970 --> 00:09:05,210 hospitals and health systems. It seems like there's 248 00:09:05,210 --> 00:09:06,750 now more than ever arguably 249 00:09:07,129 --> 00:09:09,470 a a larger, greater emphasis on culture, 250 00:09:10,225 --> 00:09:10,725 maybe 251 00:09:11,345 --> 00:09:13,585 tying directly to the workforce shortage that we're 252 00:09:13,585 --> 00:09:14,884 seeing across health care. 253 00:09:15,585 --> 00:09:17,825 Arguably, a more important time than than ever 254 00:09:17,825 --> 00:09:20,404 for health systems, hospitals, independent practices 255 00:09:20,865 --> 00:09:23,024 to really implement this great culture from the 256 00:09:23,024 --> 00:09:25,649 top down. Were would I be right right 257 00:09:25,649 --> 00:09:27,029 right in assuming that? 258 00:09:27,409 --> 00:09:30,230 Absolutely correct. And it it's really a combination 259 00:09:30,610 --> 00:09:31,590 of things that 260 00:09:32,210 --> 00:09:32,950 you can have, 261 00:09:33,330 --> 00:09:36,210 you know, the best culture, but without really 262 00:09:36,210 --> 00:09:36,710 disciplined 263 00:09:37,095 --> 00:09:39,174 processes that I mentioned before, it can be 264 00:09:39,174 --> 00:09:41,975 very difficult to achieve. And you certainly can 265 00:09:41,975 --> 00:09:44,615 have very well thought out processes. You can 266 00:09:44,615 --> 00:09:47,815 have your strategies, your goals. You can list 267 00:09:47,815 --> 00:09:50,375 out tactics, which, by the way, are often 268 00:09:50,375 --> 00:09:51,434 confused with, 269 00:09:52,199 --> 00:09:53,480 goals. But really, 270 00:09:54,039 --> 00:09:56,519 tactical approach after you understand your goals, you 271 00:09:56,519 --> 00:09:58,039 could have metrics. But if you don't have 272 00:09:58,039 --> 00:09:58,699 a culture 273 00:09:59,319 --> 00:10:00,139 that includes 274 00:10:00,679 --> 00:10:01,179 rewards 275 00:10:01,799 --> 00:10:02,699 and really appreciates 276 00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:06,279 the the great, capacity of everyone on the 277 00:10:06,279 --> 00:10:08,674 team, aren't gonna be successful. So I I 278 00:10:08,674 --> 00:10:09,815 think what we're seeing 279 00:10:10,355 --> 00:10:10,855 is 280 00:10:12,034 --> 00:10:14,434 that with that the pressure on health care, 281 00:10:14,434 --> 00:10:16,674 you really do have to have both. We 282 00:10:16,674 --> 00:10:18,855 think very carefully about 283 00:10:19,399 --> 00:10:21,480 what our mission is, how we're going to 284 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:23,740 achieve it. And and oftentimes, 285 00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:25,340 our health systems 286 00:10:25,879 --> 00:10:27,660 need some help. It's not necessarily 287 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:31,240 a part of the long term history as 288 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:33,654 it is in other industries about how to 289 00:10:33,654 --> 00:10:34,795 inject that discipline. 290 00:10:35,174 --> 00:10:36,154 I really enjoy 291 00:10:36,535 --> 00:10:39,735 working with health systems, with that, and that 292 00:10:39,735 --> 00:10:41,995 cultural piece must really come right along. 293 00:10:43,014 --> 00:10:44,855 Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. So it's such a key, 294 00:10:44,855 --> 00:10:47,100 Dre, an important topic really across the health 295 00:10:47,100 --> 00:10:47,600 care 296 00:10:47,980 --> 00:10:48,139 space. 297 00:10:48,860 --> 00:10:50,399 Mark, is there anything else? 298 00:10:51,019 --> 00:10:52,879 Last question before I let you go. 299 00:10:53,259 --> 00:10:54,620 What do you think about the future of 300 00:10:54,620 --> 00:10:57,419 health care? Is it what what particularly excites 301 00:10:57,419 --> 00:10:57,919 you? 302 00:10:59,044 --> 00:11:01,044 You know, I'm actually super excited about the 303 00:11:01,044 --> 00:11:02,964 future in health care. There are a lot 304 00:11:02,964 --> 00:11:04,345 of challenges, and, 305 00:11:04,804 --> 00:11:06,584 you know, there's reimbursement challenges. 306 00:11:07,284 --> 00:11:08,485 But, you know, I think we need to 307 00:11:08,485 --> 00:11:10,584 take a step back and and recognize 308 00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:14,840 and articulate that change is inevitable in all 309 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:15,740 parts of life. 310 00:11:16,680 --> 00:11:17,500 Being curious 311 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:20,680 to try to understand what's involved, you know, 312 00:11:20,680 --> 00:11:21,740 looking at it objectively 313 00:11:22,759 --> 00:11:23,259 and 314 00:11:23,745 --> 00:11:26,065 thinking about what what do we really where 315 00:11:26,065 --> 00:11:28,164 are the opportunities for us? I mean, how 316 00:11:28,465 --> 00:11:30,384 do you have the kind of improvements in 317 00:11:30,384 --> 00:11:31,285 patient satisfaction 318 00:11:31,664 --> 00:11:33,605 that you can achieve or the financial 319 00:11:34,225 --> 00:11:36,225 sort of turnaround? You know, what sort of 320 00:11:36,225 --> 00:11:38,164 tools do we need to bring in? 321 00:11:38,580 --> 00:11:41,700 I'm very confident that we will get through 322 00:11:41,700 --> 00:11:43,559 this. You know, the population is aging. 323 00:11:44,580 --> 00:11:47,460 People are living longer. We're gonna have more 324 00:11:47,460 --> 00:11:48,440 patients. And 325 00:11:48,740 --> 00:11:51,139 we have always found a way, and I'm 326 00:11:51,139 --> 00:11:53,139 quite confident that we will in the future 327 00:11:53,139 --> 00:11:53,774 as well. 328 00:11:54,495 --> 00:11:56,095 I love it. I love the optimism and 329 00:11:56,095 --> 00:11:58,095 certainly a great point to round out our 330 00:11:58,095 --> 00:12:01,535 discussion today. Mark, a pleasure. Fascinating conversation. Thank 331 00:12:01,535 --> 00:12:02,815 you so much for joining us on the 332 00:12:02,815 --> 00:12:04,035 Becker's Healthcare podcast. 333 00:12:04,575 --> 00:12:06,675 Thank you very much. Take care, Alan.