1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:01,760 Hello, everyone, and thank you for tuning in 2 00:00:01,760 --> 00:00:03,220 to the Becker's Healthcare podcast. 3 00:00:03,679 --> 00:00:05,519 We're thrilled to be joined today by Brett 4 00:00:05,519 --> 00:00:08,639 Spark, cofounder and president of Auroras Health, to 5 00:00:08,639 --> 00:00:11,519 discuss enhancing payer contracts. Brett, thank you so 6 00:00:11,519 --> 00:00:13,359 much for joining us. Yeah. Thanks for having 7 00:00:13,359 --> 00:00:16,464 me. So so to to get things going 8 00:00:16,464 --> 00:00:18,545 here, lay the groundwork for the conversation, can 9 00:00:18,545 --> 00:00:20,464 you just share a bit more about your 10 00:00:20,464 --> 00:00:23,024 background and and sort of the gen genesis 11 00:00:23,024 --> 00:00:24,324 for for starting Auroras? 12 00:00:24,704 --> 00:00:27,585 Sure. Full health care background for me. I 13 00:00:27,585 --> 00:00:29,524 I started my career in a large 14 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:32,059 health system in the Minneapolis region, 15 00:00:32,359 --> 00:00:33,340 had a wonderful 16 00:00:34,119 --> 00:00:35,420 experience with them, 17 00:00:35,719 --> 00:00:38,119 was there for, I think, 12 years, 18 00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:40,039 if I remember right, in a number of 19 00:00:40,039 --> 00:00:42,734 different positions on the care delivery side for 20 00:00:42,734 --> 00:00:45,615 them. And then I transitioned into privately owned 21 00:00:45,615 --> 00:00:48,335 medical practices still in in Minneapolis. I was 22 00:00:48,335 --> 00:00:50,895 actually you could call it headhunted, but I'd 23 00:00:50,895 --> 00:00:53,534 I'd formed some good relationships with with good 24 00:00:53,534 --> 00:00:54,034 people 25 00:00:54,414 --> 00:00:56,655 within a lot of different consulting firms in 26 00:00:56,655 --> 00:00:59,989 Minneapolis. And and when positions opened up in 27 00:00:59,989 --> 00:01:02,469 the private practice lane, they reached out and 28 00:01:02,469 --> 00:01:04,310 said that might be a good next step 29 00:01:04,310 --> 00:01:06,650 for me. So I transitioned into 30 00:01:07,430 --> 00:01:10,150 a privately owned medical practice and then actually 31 00:01:10,150 --> 00:01:11,678 bounced around to a few different organizations as 32 00:01:11,678 --> 00:01:12,069 CEOadministrator before starting to do some consulting work 33 00:01:12,069 --> 00:01:12,569 in 34 00:01:21,084 --> 00:01:21,584 Aurora's 35 00:01:21,965 --> 00:01:22,704 after that. 36 00:01:23,484 --> 00:01:25,564 And next question is, what have you learned, 37 00:01:25,564 --> 00:01:27,689 you know, as a founder really since jumping 38 00:01:27,689 --> 00:01:30,010 into to Auroras and and really working to 39 00:01:30,010 --> 00:01:32,829 help support providers' financial viability, 40 00:01:33,209 --> 00:01:35,609 which we, of course, know how challenging that 41 00:01:35,609 --> 00:01:36,349 can be? 42 00:01:36,650 --> 00:01:38,750 Yeah. I'll say I I didn't 43 00:01:39,855 --> 00:01:41,775 start my career thinking I would be a 44 00:01:41,775 --> 00:01:44,254 founder, thinking I'd be an entrepreneur in any 45 00:01:44,254 --> 00:01:47,135 way like that. It somewhat evolved from my 46 00:01:47,135 --> 00:01:49,215 experiences that I had, not only, you know, 47 00:01:49,215 --> 00:01:50,894 with a large health system that I worked 48 00:01:50,894 --> 00:01:51,875 for, but then 49 00:01:52,334 --> 00:01:55,629 very specifically in the private practice space, I 50 00:01:55,629 --> 00:01:57,829 I really understood that there was a lack 51 00:01:57,829 --> 00:01:59,369 of resources available 52 00:01:59,989 --> 00:02:03,269 to privately owned medical organizations from large to 53 00:02:03,269 --> 00:02:03,769 small, 54 00:02:04,549 --> 00:02:07,509 specifically around their relationship with the payers and 55 00:02:07,509 --> 00:02:09,129 the complexity that exists 56 00:02:09,644 --> 00:02:12,125 not only today, but that that ever changing 57 00:02:12,125 --> 00:02:13,344 landscape that exists 58 00:02:13,724 --> 00:02:16,764 between payers and providers is is really what 59 00:02:16,764 --> 00:02:17,264 evolved 60 00:02:17,644 --> 00:02:19,745 the theory behind Auroras. And 61 00:02:20,204 --> 00:02:22,044 I felt it when I was running these 62 00:02:22,044 --> 00:02:23,984 these medical practices, and then 63 00:02:24,469 --> 00:02:27,349 as as growing Auroras, we we feel like 64 00:02:27,349 --> 00:02:29,030 we can support them with some of the 65 00:02:29,030 --> 00:02:31,129 background that that I've had in my experiences 66 00:02:31,189 --> 00:02:33,430 as well. Yeah. And that complexity, it's it's 67 00:02:33,430 --> 00:02:35,110 not going the other direction, is it? It's 68 00:02:35,110 --> 00:02:37,522 not getting simpler out there at the You 69 00:02:37,522 --> 00:02:39,966 know, it it's one of the things that 70 00:02:39,966 --> 00:02:42,138 I thought about it in advance of having 71 00:02:42,138 --> 00:02:44,310 a talk today at at Becker's was that 72 00:02:44,310 --> 00:02:46,483 the complexity is growing, and that's great for 73 00:02:46,483 --> 00:02:48,655 our business. It's scary to think about the 74 00:02:48,655 --> 00:02:51,150 challenges that exist for not only medical practices, 75 00:02:51,150 --> 00:02:52,129 but the consumers 76 00:02:52,509 --> 00:02:54,129 as well. It is growing 77 00:02:54,909 --> 00:02:56,590 and it will only get more and more 78 00:02:56,590 --> 00:02:57,090 challenging. 79 00:02:57,629 --> 00:02:58,129 And 80 00:02:58,750 --> 00:03:00,689 that might tie into sort of where 81 00:03:01,069 --> 00:03:03,710 you I know you strongly believe that payer 82 00:03:03,710 --> 00:03:05,974 contracts should be digitized to aid providers 83 00:03:06,354 --> 00:03:07,954 in being able to be more successful with 84 00:03:07,954 --> 00:03:10,514 those contract negotiations. I think that ties into 85 00:03:10,514 --> 00:03:12,294 to what we're talking about with the complexity 86 00:03:12,435 --> 00:03:14,594 here. Can you just expand on that perspective 87 00:03:14,594 --> 00:03:16,114 for us and and and talk about why 88 00:03:16,114 --> 00:03:17,014 that's so important? 89 00:03:17,394 --> 00:03:19,555 Yeah. You know, we started Auroras as a 90 00:03:19,555 --> 00:03:22,310 service first business. We built a team 91 00:03:22,689 --> 00:03:25,169 and really boots on the ground, we felt 92 00:03:25,169 --> 00:03:27,830 that we could apply those resources 93 00:03:28,129 --> 00:03:31,270 to multiple practices across the United States. So 94 00:03:31,490 --> 00:03:33,990 service first, not really tech enabled. 95 00:03:35,015 --> 00:03:37,655 Very quickly, we realized we were going to 96 00:03:37,655 --> 00:03:40,135 need some support within our organization to be 97 00:03:40,135 --> 00:03:41,754 able to scale it beyond 98 00:03:42,215 --> 00:03:44,855 just a few practices. We wanted to go 99 00:03:44,855 --> 00:03:45,355 nationwide 100 00:03:45,895 --> 00:03:47,254 with what we were doing. And to be 101 00:03:47,254 --> 00:03:48,775 able to do that, we were gonna have 102 00:03:48,775 --> 00:03:50,829 to have some tech enabled service 103 00:03:51,209 --> 00:03:52,349 that helped align 104 00:03:52,729 --> 00:03:54,349 what we were doing with negotiations 105 00:03:54,889 --> 00:03:57,370 with the complexities that exist in the payer 106 00:03:57,370 --> 00:03:59,069 provider relationship. So 107 00:03:59,449 --> 00:04:01,150 we built our tech internal. 108 00:04:01,609 --> 00:04:03,689 There's a lot of options out there for 109 00:04:03,689 --> 00:04:06,625 medical practices. But to the question, I believe 110 00:04:06,625 --> 00:04:09,185 heavily that you have to create a digital 111 00:04:09,185 --> 00:04:11,525 footprint for your relationship between 112 00:04:11,824 --> 00:04:13,985 your practice and all of the payers that 113 00:04:13,985 --> 00:04:17,365 you work with because the the challenges exist 114 00:04:17,664 --> 00:04:19,985 are individual to every payer that you're working 115 00:04:19,985 --> 00:04:22,600 with. You need something that can support that 116 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:23,500 and give you 117 00:04:23,959 --> 00:04:26,759 a lane directly into what each of those 118 00:04:26,759 --> 00:04:29,420 relationships look like. And that's where the digital 119 00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:33,259 footprint and creating that is a strong foundation 120 00:04:33,399 --> 00:04:36,459 for leading to success and negotiations long term. 121 00:04:36,625 --> 00:04:37,365 Yeah. And that 122 00:04:38,305 --> 00:04:40,785 that every challenge, every provider has separate challenges. 123 00:04:40,785 --> 00:04:42,544 Every payer has different issues. It speaks to 124 00:04:42,544 --> 00:04:44,245 that growing complexity as well. 125 00:04:44,704 --> 00:04:46,625 And I guess I wanna hear too sort 126 00:04:46,625 --> 00:04:48,944 of some firsthand examples, I'm sure listeners would 127 00:04:48,944 --> 00:04:50,564 too, about how payers 128 00:04:51,020 --> 00:04:52,319 respond to your engagement, 129 00:04:52,620 --> 00:04:55,100 to to negotiate contract terms with them and 130 00:04:55,100 --> 00:04:56,860 and really point to the value of of 131 00:04:56,860 --> 00:04:58,240 having a partner like Aurora's 132 00:04:58,699 --> 00:05:01,100 negotiate with payers versus the provider trying to 133 00:05:01,100 --> 00:05:02,160 do that work themselves. 134 00:05:02,460 --> 00:05:05,100 Yeah. I think, you know, to the the 135 00:05:05,100 --> 00:05:06,000 first point, 136 00:05:06,555 --> 00:05:09,834 we have different relationships with every payer that 137 00:05:09,834 --> 00:05:11,915 that we're engaged with and so do our 138 00:05:11,915 --> 00:05:13,375 clients. You know, providers, 139 00:05:13,754 --> 00:05:16,475 it's not a stagnant environment. There's not one 140 00:05:16,475 --> 00:05:19,595 contract that exists between payers and providers. They're 141 00:05:19,595 --> 00:05:22,670 all individual. They're all unique, and they each 142 00:05:22,670 --> 00:05:24,910 have their own challenges, but they also each 143 00:05:24,910 --> 00:05:27,230 have their own opportunities as well. And I 144 00:05:27,230 --> 00:05:29,149 think that's where it you know, the the 145 00:05:29,149 --> 00:05:31,069 question that I get from every client is, 146 00:05:31,069 --> 00:05:33,069 well, how do you find success? I've already 147 00:05:33,069 --> 00:05:34,529 tried to do it. And 148 00:05:34,910 --> 00:05:37,214 the the challenge in answering it is it 149 00:05:37,214 --> 00:05:39,314 might be different for every one of your 150 00:05:39,855 --> 00:05:41,615 every one of your payers. It might be 151 00:05:41,615 --> 00:05:43,455 different for every one of the clients that 152 00:05:43,455 --> 00:05:46,514 we have. There's different ways of finding opportunity, 153 00:05:46,975 --> 00:05:48,254 and we're not going to know what they 154 00:05:48,254 --> 00:05:51,055 are until we've already formed that relationship with 155 00:05:51,055 --> 00:05:51,714 our clients. 156 00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:53,100 But our organization 157 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:55,660 comes at the approach with the payer, 158 00:05:56,039 --> 00:05:57,100 always data 159 00:05:57,560 --> 00:05:58,220 and foundational 160 00:05:58,759 --> 00:06:01,000 in what we can find in market. We're 161 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:03,500 not price gouging. We're not trying 162 00:06:04,144 --> 00:06:06,305 to ask above and beyond what we think 163 00:06:06,305 --> 00:06:08,725 is fair and equitable for our clients. 164 00:06:09,185 --> 00:06:11,105 So what we try and approach each of 165 00:06:11,105 --> 00:06:13,584 the conversations with is here's what we see 166 00:06:13,584 --> 00:06:14,404 in the market. 167 00:06:14,705 --> 00:06:17,365 Here's what we see for this specific organization 168 00:06:17,745 --> 00:06:19,920 as a gap between what what might be 169 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:21,699 market and and what might be opportunity. 170 00:06:22,319 --> 00:06:23,620 And we try and foundationally 171 00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:26,319 approach it like that and are open to 172 00:06:26,319 --> 00:06:28,319 kind of every different way that the payer 173 00:06:28,319 --> 00:06:31,040 might wanna negotiate that. Yeah. And and I 174 00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:33,620 imagine too for for providers out there, 175 00:06:34,254 --> 00:06:36,254 you know, finding some of those opportunities for 176 00:06:36,254 --> 00:06:38,175 success isn't the easiest thing to do when 177 00:06:38,175 --> 00:06:39,454 you've got a bunch of other work on 178 00:06:39,454 --> 00:06:41,855 your plate already. Right? Yep. Like like sitting 179 00:06:41,855 --> 00:06:43,615 down, getting your arms around the data for 180 00:06:43,615 --> 00:06:46,254 individual payers, that's that's not simple or easy 181 00:06:46,254 --> 00:06:48,834 work. The largest barriers to success 182 00:06:49,439 --> 00:06:52,639 are time and data. Yep. Yeah. And our 183 00:06:52,639 --> 00:06:56,080 client base usually has neither of those. There's 184 00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:58,960 more data available now than ever before in 185 00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:01,060 the in the health care reimbursement lane, 186 00:07:01,454 --> 00:07:04,574 But having that available and actually applying it 187 00:07:04,574 --> 00:07:07,475 to your specific situation and using it as 188 00:07:07,774 --> 00:07:10,514 a knowledge base to gain success in negotiations 189 00:07:10,735 --> 00:07:13,134 are are really two different things. And the 190 00:07:13,134 --> 00:07:15,919 commitment is is heavy and the resource need 191 00:07:15,919 --> 00:07:18,079 is heavy. And yes, our our client base 192 00:07:18,079 --> 00:07:19,439 has a lot of other fires that they 193 00:07:19,439 --> 00:07:21,220 usually need to put out. Certainly. 194 00:07:22,319 --> 00:07:24,319 And it it sounds like your approach to 195 00:07:24,319 --> 00:07:26,720 sitting down with payers is you're you're coming 196 00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:28,954 with data. It also seems like you're you're 197 00:07:28,954 --> 00:07:30,794 open to exploring avenues. So you're coming from 198 00:07:30,794 --> 00:07:32,555 a place of good faith and trying to 199 00:07:32,555 --> 00:07:33,535 establish that. 200 00:07:33,915 --> 00:07:35,754 Can you sort of describe maybe some of 201 00:07:35,754 --> 00:07:37,055 the results you've seen, 202 00:07:37,355 --> 00:07:39,935 for for providers after after you've sat down 203 00:07:40,074 --> 00:07:41,055 and and really 204 00:07:41,399 --> 00:07:44,519 hashed out this these negotiations with payers? Yeah. 205 00:07:44,519 --> 00:07:46,540 I'll I'll say to to the first comment, 206 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:49,079 the one thing that that I can get 207 00:07:49,079 --> 00:07:50,919 on board with and agree with a lot 208 00:07:50,919 --> 00:07:52,680 of payers as I've sat on panels, as 209 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:55,319 I've I've been at different conferences, is fee 210 00:07:55,319 --> 00:07:56,060 for service 211 00:07:56,745 --> 00:07:57,884 needs to evolve. 212 00:07:58,425 --> 00:08:00,824 We need to look at the reimbursement market 213 00:08:00,824 --> 00:08:01,485 as a whole 214 00:08:01,865 --> 00:08:03,564 and look at where there might be opportunities 215 00:08:03,785 --> 00:08:06,345 to evolve the fee for service market, which 216 00:08:06,345 --> 00:08:09,305 still is 75 to 80% of the contracts 217 00:08:09,305 --> 00:08:11,464 that are out there today. And we need 218 00:08:11,464 --> 00:08:13,740 to change that. And and value based care 219 00:08:13,740 --> 00:08:15,259 has been one that's been around for a 220 00:08:15,259 --> 00:08:16,319 long time. Mhmm. 221 00:08:16,779 --> 00:08:19,600 And we've tried to implement that whenever possible. 222 00:08:20,220 --> 00:08:22,300 But in a lot of cases, it is 223 00:08:22,300 --> 00:08:25,519 very payer driven. You know, even the success 224 00:08:25,819 --> 00:08:26,319 or 225 00:08:26,975 --> 00:08:29,875 the value that they're measuring is is internal 226 00:08:29,935 --> 00:08:31,875 to what's valuable to them. So 227 00:08:32,335 --> 00:08:33,794 we we try and engage 228 00:08:34,174 --> 00:08:35,855 in a way that we can look at 229 00:08:35,855 --> 00:08:38,434 terms, we can look at at opportunities 230 00:08:39,215 --> 00:08:41,075 that are valuable to both sides. 231 00:08:41,379 --> 00:08:43,220 I realize that there's a lot of restrictions 232 00:08:43,220 --> 00:08:44,659 that exist on the payer side of the 233 00:08:44,659 --> 00:08:47,539 world as well. Our clients, which are mainly 234 00:08:47,539 --> 00:08:50,579 physician based, are also beholden to to this 235 00:08:50,579 --> 00:08:53,059 reimbursement model that's existed, you know, since the 236 00:08:53,059 --> 00:08:55,345 beginning of healthcare. And if there's a way 237 00:08:55,345 --> 00:08:57,445 for us to evolve that into a different 238 00:08:57,904 --> 00:09:00,965 method of reimbursement, whether that's value based care, 239 00:09:01,184 --> 00:09:02,884 whether it's gainshare, whether it's 240 00:09:03,825 --> 00:09:06,705 providing reimbursement based on quality, we are open 241 00:09:06,705 --> 00:09:07,764 to that. And 242 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:10,360 hopefully, we can be another resource to help 243 00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:13,080 support an evolution in the reimbursement lane. Yep. 244 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:15,159 And and feel free to not answer this 245 00:09:15,159 --> 00:09:17,959 next question or or and I'm certainly not 246 00:09:17,959 --> 00:09:19,799 asking you to to name names, so to 247 00:09:19,799 --> 00:09:22,299 speak. Yeah. But just curious if you've ever 248 00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:25,134 sat down with an an organization, a payer, 249 00:09:25,134 --> 00:09:28,735 and encountered hesitancy and overcome it, and what 250 00:09:28,735 --> 00:09:30,675 that looked like and how you got there. 251 00:09:31,215 --> 00:09:33,455 Yes. And that is pretty much every single 252 00:09:33,455 --> 00:09:35,774 one of the the situations that we run 253 00:09:35,774 --> 00:09:36,274 into. 254 00:09:36,654 --> 00:09:39,450 You know, it just depends on what the 255 00:09:39,450 --> 00:09:42,009 the opportunity is and and really what we're 256 00:09:42,009 --> 00:09:43,470 both trying to overcome 257 00:09:43,769 --> 00:09:46,830 in this situation. But no is something that 258 00:09:46,970 --> 00:09:48,809 our organization has had to get comfortable with 259 00:09:48,809 --> 00:09:50,889 since day 1. And that's just that's part 260 00:09:50,889 --> 00:09:52,975 of the landscape that we live in. We 261 00:09:52,975 --> 00:09:55,774 realize that there's there's a different lane that 262 00:09:55,774 --> 00:09:57,455 the payers might be trying to go down 263 00:09:57,455 --> 00:09:59,294 to find success than what we're trying to 264 00:09:59,294 --> 00:09:59,955 go to. 265 00:10:00,415 --> 00:10:02,975 The financials might look different. The outcomes that 266 00:10:02,975 --> 00:10:04,654 they want might be different than what we're 267 00:10:04,654 --> 00:10:05,394 looking for. 268 00:10:05,709 --> 00:10:07,470 But what we try and do is we 269 00:10:07,470 --> 00:10:08,909 we try and bring in as much of 270 00:10:08,909 --> 00:10:11,309 a visual landscape to them as well and 271 00:10:11,309 --> 00:10:12,370 share that information. 272 00:10:13,070 --> 00:10:15,230 When we're having conversations with them, we're very 273 00:10:15,230 --> 00:10:17,389 open to here's what what we would like 274 00:10:17,389 --> 00:10:19,215 to see to be able to have a 275 00:10:19,215 --> 00:10:21,554 successful relationship. And in some occasions, 276 00:10:22,174 --> 00:10:24,915 it doesn't work. It doesn't make sense to 277 00:10:24,975 --> 00:10:26,355 continue with the relationship. 278 00:10:26,975 --> 00:10:29,455 But bar none majority of the time when 279 00:10:29,455 --> 00:10:32,174 we are working with decision makers within the 280 00:10:32,174 --> 00:10:34,889 payers, we can usually get to a productive 281 00:10:34,889 --> 00:10:35,389 outcome. 282 00:10:35,769 --> 00:10:37,690 The challenge is there might be several layers 283 00:10:37,690 --> 00:10:39,610 that we need to go through before we're 284 00:10:39,610 --> 00:10:42,409 actually working with the decision makers within the 285 00:10:42,409 --> 00:10:45,049 payers. And the one thing I again, I 286 00:10:45,049 --> 00:10:47,774 I realize that resources are a restraint 287 00:10:48,315 --> 00:10:50,315 and are challenging within a lot of the 288 00:10:50,315 --> 00:10:52,014 payer landscape as well. 289 00:10:52,794 --> 00:10:54,715 What we do is we take a lot 290 00:10:54,715 --> 00:10:56,554 of time to get and and weed through 291 00:10:56,554 --> 00:10:58,554 some of the minutiae before we we actually 292 00:10:58,554 --> 00:11:00,519 get to the outcomes we want. Yeah. 293 00:11:00,899 --> 00:11:02,659 And and looking ahead here, I think based 294 00:11:02,659 --> 00:11:05,539 on our conversation so far, it's safe to 295 00:11:05,539 --> 00:11:06,980 say when we're pointing to sort of the 296 00:11:06,980 --> 00:11:07,960 complexity here, 297 00:11:08,419 --> 00:11:09,860 that there's a lot of change in this 298 00:11:09,860 --> 00:11:12,019 space. A lot a lot is happening and 299 00:11:12,019 --> 00:11:13,220 it it can be a challenge just to 300 00:11:13,220 --> 00:11:14,980 predict what's going to happen 5 months from 301 00:11:14,980 --> 00:11:16,514 now, let alone what I'm going to ask 302 00:11:16,514 --> 00:11:17,634 you, which is what's going to happen in 303 00:11:17,634 --> 00:11:19,254 the next 12 to 24 months? 304 00:11:19,715 --> 00:11:21,955 But curious to get your thoughts on what 305 00:11:21,955 --> 00:11:24,514 challenges and opportunities you foresee emerging in the 306 00:11:24,514 --> 00:11:26,355 next year or 2. What are you keeping 307 00:11:26,355 --> 00:11:28,294 your eyes on? What should our listeners 308 00:11:28,595 --> 00:11:31,480 be looking out for? Yep. I mean, inevitably, 309 00:11:32,019 --> 00:11:34,740 the complexity is going to increase. We talked 310 00:11:34,740 --> 00:11:37,379 about that earlier as well. And that's why 311 00:11:37,379 --> 00:11:39,860 I think it's such an important position right 312 00:11:39,860 --> 00:11:41,399 now for medical practices, 313 00:11:41,779 --> 00:11:43,559 large and small. Health systems, 314 00:11:44,285 --> 00:11:46,144 all the way down to your solo practitioners, 315 00:11:46,764 --> 00:11:48,524 they need to create some level of a 316 00:11:48,524 --> 00:11:50,845 digital footprint for their relationship with the payers. 317 00:11:50,845 --> 00:11:53,725 If they don't, the complexities that continue to 318 00:11:53,725 --> 00:11:55,644 evolve and it's not just in the commercial 319 00:11:55,644 --> 00:11:58,860 space. The complexity around Medicare Advantage, the complexity 320 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:01,080 with managed Medicaid products that are out there 321 00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:03,980 now and the payers that are administering those 322 00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:07,320 continues to grow. And if you don't understand 323 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:09,704 the position that you're currently in, it's going 324 00:12:09,704 --> 00:12:11,865 to be very easy for that complexity to 325 00:12:11,865 --> 00:12:14,504 take over the organization and will inevitably lead 326 00:12:14,504 --> 00:12:17,384 to to lower reimbursements if you're not watching 327 00:12:17,384 --> 00:12:19,784 it. So what's gonna happen over the next, 328 00:12:19,784 --> 00:12:21,164 you know, several years? 329 00:12:21,539 --> 00:12:23,799 I think the evolution of of the reimbursement 330 00:12:23,940 --> 00:12:26,259 model will continue to be there, and I 331 00:12:26,259 --> 00:12:28,839 think you need to understand where your opportunities 332 00:12:29,059 --> 00:12:31,639 are specific to your subspecialties, 333 00:12:32,019 --> 00:12:33,879 specific to your geographic region, 334 00:12:34,434 --> 00:12:36,995 specific to your relationship with the payers. If 335 00:12:36,995 --> 00:12:39,475 you don't understand that, if you don't understand 336 00:12:39,475 --> 00:12:42,514 what's important to the payer landscape, it's gonna 337 00:12:42,514 --> 00:12:44,514 be challenging for you to to make any 338 00:12:44,514 --> 00:12:46,134 adjustments to current state. 339 00:12:46,995 --> 00:12:48,274 And then and then I think on the 340 00:12:48,274 --> 00:12:49,254 government side, 341 00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:51,480 we need to kinda watch and see where 342 00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:54,519 CMS continues to evolve, specifically with the Medicare 343 00:12:54,519 --> 00:12:57,160 Advantage Plans. The star ratings have been a 344 00:12:57,160 --> 00:12:58,059 hot topic 345 00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:01,000 of recent. You know, CMS is dealing with 346 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:02,860 lawsuits from several of the payers 347 00:13:03,245 --> 00:13:05,164 and that based on the star ratings that 348 00:13:05,164 --> 00:13:07,485 that they were given and the outcomes of 349 00:13:07,485 --> 00:13:09,964 that could change kind of the the position 350 00:13:09,964 --> 00:13:11,804 that some of these payers have into the 351 00:13:11,804 --> 00:13:14,764 future with Medicare Advantage products. So we need 352 00:13:14,764 --> 00:13:16,924 to watch that and kinda let that fight 353 00:13:16,924 --> 00:13:19,490 happen. But from a clinical perspective, from a 354 00:13:19,490 --> 00:13:20,709 care delivery side, 355 00:13:21,250 --> 00:13:24,209 what happens in those lanes could impact how 356 00:13:24,209 --> 00:13:26,850 the reimbursement is dispersed in with some of 357 00:13:26,850 --> 00:13:27,909 those government products. 358 00:13:28,289 --> 00:13:29,970 Well, Brett, I think that's a good place 359 00:13:29,970 --> 00:13:31,649 for us to sort of land the plane, 360 00:13:31,649 --> 00:13:33,089 so to speak. I think I think it's 361 00:13:33,089 --> 00:13:35,504 a good good closing thought. Brett, thank you 362 00:13:35,504 --> 00:13:36,785 so much for for coming on the podcast. 363 00:13:36,785 --> 00:13:38,465 Appreciate it. Thanks for having me. And thank 364 00:13:38,465 --> 00:13:40,625 you as well to Aurora's Health for sponsoring 365 00:13:40,625 --> 00:13:42,865 today's content. To our listeners, thank you for 366 00:13:42,865 --> 00:13:44,465 joining us, and please be sure to check 367 00:13:44,465 --> 00:13:47,024 out other Becker's podcasts. Have a wonderful rest 368 00:13:47,024 --> 00:13:47,764 of your day.