WEBVTT 1 00:00:03.359 --> 00:00:06.799 - Welcome to Working Writers episode seven. I'm Pete 2 00:00:06.799 --> 00:00:07.299 - Alden. 3 00:00:08.160 --> 00:00:10.800 - And I'm Brian Chaffin. Make sure to check 4 00:00:10.800 --> 00:00:14.019 - out our website at workingwriters.io. 5 00:00:14.484 --> 00:00:17.285 - And you can subscribe and contact us via 6 00:00:17.285 --> 00:00:18.964 - workingwriters.io. 7 00:00:18.964 --> 00:00:20.105 - Yes. You can. 8 00:00:20.885 --> 00:00:21.204 - And, 9 00:00:22.004 --> 00:00:25.364 - Pete, let's get right into it today. We're 10 00:00:25.364 --> 00:00:26.744 - gonna be talking about 11 00:00:27.809 --> 00:00:29.190 - writing competitions. Right? 12 00:00:29.730 --> 00:00:30.710 - We are indeed. 13 00:00:31.170 --> 00:00:33.909 - We are indeed. Yeah. Short story and novel? 14 00:00:34.289 --> 00:00:35.509 - Yeah. Yep. 15 00:00:36.210 --> 00:00:38.450 - Yeah. I haven't, I haven't entered a short 16 00:00:38.450 --> 00:00:40.629 - story competition, but I have entered 17 00:00:40.929 --> 00:00:41.429 - several 18 00:00:43.215 --> 00:00:45.534 - several novel competitions, and, I know that you 19 00:00:45.534 --> 00:00:46.195 - have two. 20 00:00:46.575 --> 00:00:48.255 - And I know that we've all we've both 21 00:00:48.255 --> 00:00:49.935 - been judges in them. So we're gonna try 22 00:00:49.935 --> 00:00:50.995 - to talk about, like, 23 00:00:51.615 --> 00:00:53.135 - I don't know, as many aspects of this 24 00:00:53.135 --> 00:00:54.734 - as we can. And if you have any 25 00:00:54.734 --> 00:00:55.234 - questions, 26 00:00:56.789 --> 00:00:58.409 - you should let us know. 27 00:00:58.869 --> 00:00:59.369 - Yeah, 28 00:00:59.909 --> 00:01:02.090 - please. Because we're always happy to revisit this. 29 00:01:05.189 --> 00:01:06.010 - I think competitions 30 00:01:06.549 --> 00:01:09.030 - are good. I think they're important. I think 31 00:01:09.030 --> 00:01:09.769 - they're flawed, 32 00:01:11.504 --> 00:01:14.244 - but, I think that they're they're absolutely 33 00:01:14.625 --> 00:01:15.284 - a worthy 34 00:01:15.905 --> 00:01:16.405 - thing 35 00:01:16.704 --> 00:01:19.204 - for for for writers to enter, 36 00:01:19.984 --> 00:01:21.444 - especially if their book is good. 37 00:01:21.905 --> 00:01:22.405 - Mhmm. 38 00:01:22.864 --> 00:01:25.530 - Or short story. Yeah. Or short story. Yeah. 39 00:01:25.530 --> 00:01:27.189 - And and I would add too, 40 00:01:27.890 --> 00:01:29.189 - depending on the competition, 41 00:01:29.729 --> 00:01:31.670 - sometimes if the if the story 42 00:01:31.969 --> 00:01:33.510 - is still a little bit undercooked, 43 00:01:35.170 --> 00:01:37.329 - particularly a short story, I'd probably recommend this 44 00:01:37.329 --> 00:01:38.849 - more for a short story than a than 45 00:01:38.849 --> 00:01:39.670 - a full novel. 46 00:01:40.584 --> 00:01:43.385 - But that can actually be quite helpful to 47 00:01:43.385 --> 00:01:44.685 - just test out the 48 00:01:45.064 --> 00:01:46.745 - the vibe of the thing, whether it's whether 49 00:01:46.745 --> 00:01:48.204 - it's it's got legs, 50 00:01:48.905 --> 00:01:50.584 - without spending, you know, an extra eight or 51 00:01:50.584 --> 00:01:51.885 - ten or twelve hours 52 00:01:52.609 --> 00:01:54.609 - polishing it too much. Now I'm not saying 53 00:01:54.609 --> 00:01:56.130 - that you yeah. I'm not saying that you 54 00:01:56.130 --> 00:01:58.130 - just leave all spelling mistakes in there. You're 55 00:01:58.130 --> 00:02:00.370 - saying that you should enter a competition with 56 00:02:00.370 --> 00:02:02.130 - a short story. I I I don't like 57 00:02:02.130 --> 00:02:03.409 - this advice for a not for a novel 58 00:02:03.409 --> 00:02:04.609 - at all. Oh, not for a novel. No. 59 00:02:04.609 --> 00:02:06.870 - A 100%. No. No. So you're saying that 60 00:02:07.894 --> 00:02:10.134 - if you're like, yeah. I don't know. Is 61 00:02:10.134 --> 00:02:12.294 - this working? You should you should just enter 62 00:02:12.294 --> 00:02:15.094 - a short story competition rather than polish it? 63 00:02:15.094 --> 00:02:17.675 - And really pay off the judges a 100%. 64 00:02:17.894 --> 00:02:20.719 - Oh my god. My rationale is this. I 65 00:02:20.719 --> 00:02:22.319 - have been judged twice in, 66 00:02:23.039 --> 00:02:25.539 - the League of Utah writers short story competition. 67 00:02:26.400 --> 00:02:27.919 - I'm not a 100% that it's still this 68 00:02:27.919 --> 00:02:29.840 - is a a few years back. Not a 69 00:02:29.840 --> 00:02:32.340 - 100% sure that it's still still running. But 70 00:02:32.894 --> 00:02:34.814 - in that competition, and there are other competitions 71 00:02:34.814 --> 00:02:36.974 - that do the same thing, you, as a 72 00:02:36.974 --> 00:02:38.574 - judge, were expected to give at least a 73 00:02:38.574 --> 00:02:39.634 - little bit of feedback. 74 00:02:40.894 --> 00:02:42.974 - That was useful. Now I read some stories 75 00:02:42.974 --> 00:02:43.715 - that were 76 00:02:44.414 --> 00:02:46.655 - undercooked. I'll use that word. So Because you 77 00:02:46.655 --> 00:02:48.909 - were judging? Because I was judging. Yes. 78 00:02:49.769 --> 00:02:51.209 - And the first year, though, that it was 79 00:02:51.209 --> 00:02:53.370 - rough roughly a 100 to about a 110 80 00:02:53.370 --> 00:02:54.569 - the second year. So it was a lot 81 00:02:54.569 --> 00:02:55.849 - of short stories to read in a few 82 00:02:55.849 --> 00:02:56.349 - months. 83 00:02:58.009 --> 00:02:59.789 - I think for those writers who 84 00:03:00.165 --> 00:03:02.085 - really didn't have the kind of support network 85 00:03:02.085 --> 00:03:03.365 - that you and I have been talking about 86 00:03:03.365 --> 00:03:06.004 - for the last couple of episodes Mhmm. Or 87 00:03:06.004 --> 00:03:06.824 - recent episodes 88 00:03:07.205 --> 00:03:08.824 - or who aren't getting 89 00:03:09.604 --> 00:03:11.604 - helpful feedback. You know, they may have been 90 00:03:11.604 --> 00:03:12.985 - told, oh, this is fantastic. 91 00:03:13.500 --> 00:03:15.180 - This is great. Like, this this will sell. 92 00:03:15.180 --> 00:03:17.180 - You send this to a magazine. They'd be 93 00:03:17.180 --> 00:03:18.699 - crazy not to pick this up and give 94 00:03:18.699 --> 00:03:20.560 - you a $100 for the short story. 95 00:03:21.180 --> 00:03:23.340 - Then putting it out there to a bunch 96 00:03:23.340 --> 00:03:26.055 - of complete strangers who are really marking it, 97 00:03:27.174 --> 00:03:27.995 - you know, reasonably, 98 00:03:28.294 --> 00:03:32.074 - not harshly, but severely against other short stories, 99 00:03:32.134 --> 00:03:34.055 - particularly when yours is one of a 100 100 00:03:34.055 --> 00:03:35.034 - that they're reading. 101 00:03:35.495 --> 00:03:36.794 - That can give you some 102 00:03:37.174 --> 00:03:38.954 - really useful reality checks, 103 00:03:39.280 --> 00:03:41.039 - I think, too. So I'm not saying that 104 00:03:41.039 --> 00:03:41.860 - you purposefully 105 00:03:43.120 --> 00:03:45.519 - send your and please don't send your first 106 00:03:45.519 --> 00:03:47.360 - draft in, and I've read too many novels 107 00:03:47.360 --> 00:03:49.620 - that really just read like first drafts, 108 00:03:50.080 --> 00:03:52.239 - let alone short stories. You don't leave all 109 00:03:52.239 --> 00:03:53.780 - the typos in. You don't, 110 00:03:54.215 --> 00:03:57.415 - you know, check for repeated words like the 111 00:03:57.415 --> 00:04:00.135 - the. Okay. Okay. You you fix that stuff, 112 00:04:00.135 --> 00:04:01.594 - but it may be that you 113 00:04:02.055 --> 00:04:03.974 - you're not quite sure that the character arc 114 00:04:03.974 --> 00:04:05.895 - is working. You're not quite sure the opening 115 00:04:05.895 --> 00:04:07.194 - hook is there enough. 116 00:04:08.319 --> 00:04:10.159 - I cannot believe that you're saying that you 117 00:04:10.159 --> 00:04:12.319 - should that you should enter a competition to 118 00:04:12.319 --> 00:04:14.799 - find that out rather than than than asking 119 00:04:14.799 --> 00:04:16.959 - other writers to to read your work or 120 00:04:16.959 --> 00:04:17.939 - even beta readers. 121 00:04:18.399 --> 00:04:20.504 - I can't believe you're saying that. I But 122 00:04:20.504 --> 00:04:23.165 - you don't It's it's hilarious to me. Yeah. 123 00:04:23.305 --> 00:04:24.904 - And I'm not again, I'm being clear. I'm 124 00:04:24.904 --> 00:04:26.425 - not saying that you're doing this to waste 125 00:04:26.425 --> 00:04:27.004 - the judges' 126 00:04:27.625 --> 00:04:29.164 - time. Please don't do that. 127 00:04:29.625 --> 00:04:31.544 - Please get it as good as you possibly 128 00:04:31.544 --> 00:04:33.000 - can, but it may be that, 129 00:04:33.560 --> 00:04:34.540 - you know, you think, 130 00:04:35.160 --> 00:04:36.920 - I'm not sure that I'm happy with this 131 00:04:36.920 --> 00:04:38.839 - story. It's as good as I can possibly 132 00:04:38.839 --> 00:04:40.759 - get it now for myself. My my writing 133 00:04:40.759 --> 00:04:42.139 - group and my critique partners, 134 00:04:43.000 --> 00:04:44.759 - they seem to be signing off on it, 135 00:04:45.000 --> 00:04:46.839 - or they're giving me advice that isn't making 136 00:04:46.839 --> 00:04:48.904 - sense to me. I I think it's this 137 00:04:48.904 --> 00:04:49.644 - kind of story. 138 00:04:50.185 --> 00:04:51.625 - I'm gonna I'm gonna have a go at 139 00:04:51.625 --> 00:04:52.444 - this particular 140 00:04:53.384 --> 00:04:54.985 - competition. And, look, you know, most of the 141 00:04:54.985 --> 00:04:57.245 - time, it's gonna cost you $20.30, $50 142 00:04:57.544 --> 00:04:59.704 - to enter. There aren't very many free ones. 143 00:04:59.704 --> 00:05:01.064 - Right. Right? So it's gonna cost you to 144 00:05:01.064 --> 00:05:01.964 - get that feedback. 145 00:05:04.830 --> 00:05:06.350 - No. No. I'm just saying that there could 146 00:05:06.350 --> 00:05:08.110 - be some use in in doing that. 147 00:05:08.750 --> 00:05:10.689 - Now all the people running short story competitions 148 00:05:10.750 --> 00:05:11.650 - are gonna hate me 149 00:05:12.590 --> 00:05:13.970 - because I've just encouraged 150 00:05:15.150 --> 00:05:17.644 - people to, yeah, run a full strategy. 151 00:05:18.024 --> 00:05:18.605 - Any competition 152 00:05:19.225 --> 00:05:21.464 - that's that's charging money is probably not gonna 153 00:05:21.464 --> 00:05:21.964 - be 154 00:05:22.745 --> 00:05:25.305 - upset that you're sending people to them for 155 00:05:25.305 --> 00:05:27.865 - whatever reason. For money. Yeah. Yeah. A 100%. 156 00:05:27.865 --> 00:05:28.199 - Yeah. 157 00:05:29.319 --> 00:05:29.819 - Alright. 158 00:05:31.720 --> 00:05:33.580 - So we were talking about what's the usefulness 159 00:05:33.960 --> 00:05:35.879 - of of these things, and that that's one 160 00:05:35.879 --> 00:05:37.720 - of the potential useful. That's not the main 161 00:05:37.720 --> 00:05:39.720 - one. That's not the main one. That all 162 00:05:39.879 --> 00:05:41.720 - That's that's that is not the main one. 163 00:05:41.879 --> 00:05:42.540 - I mean, 164 00:05:44.245 --> 00:05:44.745 - the 165 00:05:45.365 --> 00:05:45.865 - alright. 166 00:05:46.964 --> 00:05:49.764 - One potential benefit, and I'm thinking of novel 167 00:05:49.764 --> 00:05:50.824 - competitions in particular, 168 00:05:51.205 --> 00:05:51.705 - is 169 00:05:52.085 --> 00:05:54.185 - getting more reviews for your book. 170 00:05:55.899 --> 00:05:58.079 - Right? Because many of the judges 171 00:05:59.500 --> 00:06:01.500 - who end up reading your book, especially if 172 00:06:01.500 --> 00:06:02.779 - they end up reading it in full, we'll 173 00:06:02.779 --> 00:06:04.379 - get to that in a bit. Yeah. 174 00:06:04.779 --> 00:06:07.759 - Will leave a review, at least a review 175 00:06:07.980 --> 00:06:10.504 - on Goodreads and sometimes a review on one 176 00:06:10.504 --> 00:06:11.644 - of the other, retailers 177 00:06:12.345 --> 00:06:13.865 - or one of the retailers that are out 178 00:06:13.865 --> 00:06:14.185 - there. 179 00:06:15.144 --> 00:06:16.125 - But that 180 00:06:18.345 --> 00:06:20.504 - that that's a that's a direct benefit of 181 00:06:20.504 --> 00:06:22.420 - being in a in a in a novel 182 00:06:22.420 --> 00:06:22.920 - competition. 183 00:06:23.939 --> 00:06:24.819 - 100%. 184 00:06:24.819 --> 00:06:27.540 - I've you've probably experienced that with accidental intelligence. 185 00:06:27.540 --> 00:06:29.459 - I've experienced it this year with with last 186 00:06:29.459 --> 00:06:30.279 - among equals, 187 00:06:30.660 --> 00:06:32.279 - which was in Mark Lawrence's 188 00:06:32.980 --> 00:06:35.220 - spiff bow 11. Just easy to say that 189 00:06:35.220 --> 00:06:36.439 - than spell out the letters 190 00:06:37.035 --> 00:06:39.035 - for it. But, yes, I I probably And 191 00:06:39.035 --> 00:06:41.514 - you three or four reviews from that. Yeah. 192 00:06:41.514 --> 00:06:44.634 - You made it into semifinals? Semifinalist. Yeah. Yeah. 193 00:06:44.634 --> 00:06:46.875 - Yeah. So that that book's been semifinalist twice 194 00:06:46.875 --> 00:06:49.194 - in two two competitions. That was one of 195 00:06:49.194 --> 00:06:51.569 - them. Right. But, yeah, three or four. I 196 00:06:51.569 --> 00:06:52.930 - I haven't stopped to count it, but there'd 197 00:06:52.930 --> 00:06:55.009 - be at least three reviews that came directly 198 00:06:55.009 --> 00:06:56.229 - from that, which were very 199 00:06:56.850 --> 00:06:58.449 - which were glowing. Thank god. 200 00:06:58.850 --> 00:07:00.529 - But, again, that just helps you get that 201 00:07:00.529 --> 00:07:02.529 - review count up and the star rating up. 202 00:07:02.529 --> 00:07:05.485 - Right. Yeah. Let let's let's mention what SPIFO 203 00:07:05.485 --> 00:07:06.224 - stands for. 204 00:07:07.004 --> 00:07:08.625 - Oh, self published. 205 00:07:09.724 --> 00:07:13.425 - Fantasy. Fantasy blog off, I think. Blog off? 206 00:07:14.044 --> 00:07:16.620 - VBO is an off. Yeah. Blog off. So 207 00:07:16.620 --> 00:07:18.699 - you have a bunch of, bloggers and book 208 00:07:18.699 --> 00:07:20.160 - reviewers in teams 209 00:07:20.939 --> 00:07:21.439 - who 210 00:07:22.459 --> 00:07:24.620 - might have you know, their team might have 211 00:07:24.620 --> 00:07:27.500 - thirty thirty books to 30 novels at the 212 00:07:27.500 --> 00:07:29.915 - beginning of the process in round one to 213 00:07:29.915 --> 00:07:30.574 - get through. 214 00:07:31.274 --> 00:07:35.355 - So last year, your accidental intel intelligence was 215 00:07:35.355 --> 00:07:35.855 - in 216 00:07:36.235 --> 00:07:39.595 - the sister or brother competition? Yeah. Well, yeah. 217 00:07:39.595 --> 00:07:42.314 - I did. They're they're they're related, but they're 218 00:07:42.314 --> 00:07:43.055 - not connected. 219 00:07:43.629 --> 00:07:44.129 - Uh-huh. 220 00:07:44.509 --> 00:07:47.569 - I mean, anyway, whatever. Yeah. The SPSFC 221 00:07:48.829 --> 00:07:50.370 - is self publishing 222 00:07:50.829 --> 00:07:53.949 - science fiction competition, and this one was started 223 00:07:53.949 --> 00:07:55.709 - by Hugh Howey and a couple of other 224 00:07:55.709 --> 00:07:58.504 - people. Gotcha. And who have since dropped out. 225 00:07:58.824 --> 00:08:02.125 - They're they're not directly involved, although Hugh does 226 00:08:02.585 --> 00:08:03.884 - he he is in the discord, 227 00:08:04.185 --> 00:08:04.685 - but 228 00:08:05.145 --> 00:08:06.285 - he never says anything. 229 00:08:07.465 --> 00:08:09.305 - I think that's terrific that they gave something 230 00:08:09.305 --> 00:08:11.180 - back to the community. But but it's even 231 00:08:11.180 --> 00:08:13.279 - Mark Lawrence. Yeah. Yeah. It is. 232 00:08:14.220 --> 00:08:14.720 - So, 233 00:08:16.379 --> 00:08:18.540 - yeah. And, Accidental Intelligence made it into the 234 00:08:18.540 --> 00:08:21.020 - finals last year, and, and then I I'm 235 00:08:21.020 --> 00:08:22.939 - judging this year. And, 236 00:08:24.194 --> 00:08:26.834 - and we're, and you've judged are you have 237 00:08:26.834 --> 00:08:28.694 - you just done the the short story judging? 238 00:08:28.914 --> 00:08:31.394 - That's just Yes. Yep. So in in that 239 00:08:31.394 --> 00:08:33.315 - that League of Utah Writers twice and then 240 00:08:33.315 --> 00:08:35.954 - the local Australian so the Australian Horror Writers 241 00:08:35.954 --> 00:08:37.894 - Association have a Shadows Awards 242 00:08:38.720 --> 00:08:41.299 - each year, and I was on the judging, 243 00:08:42.000 --> 00:08:44.319 - panel for short stories one year. The the 244 00:08:44.480 --> 00:08:47.199 - again, the the year after my short story 245 00:08:47.199 --> 00:08:49.199 - that was entered the year before was it 246 00:08:49.199 --> 00:08:49.940 - was shortlisted. 247 00:08:50.865 --> 00:08:53.345 - So I Nice. Saw some value in that, 248 00:08:53.345 --> 00:08:55.424 - and it was very, very interesting. So League 249 00:08:55.424 --> 00:08:58.625 - of Utah writers, very widespread of genre. People 250 00:08:58.625 --> 00:09:01.024 - would submit any short story they'd written, didn't 251 00:09:01.024 --> 00:09:02.625 - matter what the topic was or the what 252 00:09:02.625 --> 00:09:05.529 - the genre was. Whereas the horror writers association, 253 00:09:05.669 --> 00:09:06.169 - obviously 254 00:09:06.790 --> 00:09:08.870 - Alright. There's gotta be some horror in there. 255 00:09:08.870 --> 00:09:09.370 - Yeah. 256 00:09:11.669 --> 00:09:13.429 - Yeah. So we've both we've both been on 257 00:09:13.429 --> 00:09:14.570 - both sides of the 258 00:09:15.590 --> 00:09:17.235 - of the of the equation. 259 00:09:17.774 --> 00:09:18.595 - And the 260 00:09:20.095 --> 00:09:22.514 - the biggest benefit is that you might 261 00:09:23.054 --> 00:09:23.554 - place 262 00:09:23.934 --> 00:09:25.394 - or even win the competition. 263 00:09:26.495 --> 00:09:28.575 - Yeah. Yeah. I I And that's what you're 264 00:09:28.575 --> 00:09:31.070 - hopeful. Yeah. I definitely got some mileage out 265 00:09:31.070 --> 00:09:33.009 - of being a finalist in the SPSFC, 266 00:09:34.190 --> 00:09:37.230 - and then I just recently got the, silver 267 00:09:37.230 --> 00:09:37.730 - medal 268 00:09:38.110 --> 00:09:40.529 - in the Reader's Favorite twenty twenty six 269 00:09:41.070 --> 00:09:43.149 - competition. It's it's got a actually, it's got 270 00:09:43.149 --> 00:09:43.889 - a name. 271 00:09:44.524 --> 00:09:46.125 - I'm going to figure out what that name 272 00:09:46.125 --> 00:09:48.285 - is. It's got a very long name and 273 00:09:48.285 --> 00:09:49.425 - I never remember it. 274 00:09:51.644 --> 00:09:52.865 - Coming up, twenty 275 00:09:53.965 --> 00:09:56.865 - twenty six Reader's Favorite International Book Award contest. 276 00:09:57.490 --> 00:09:58.629 - Mhmm. International. 277 00:09:59.649 --> 00:10:01.830 - Yes. It is an international competition. 278 00:10:02.370 --> 00:10:03.830 - Nice. So, and 279 00:10:05.730 --> 00:10:08.450 - if you are lucky enough, and and that 280 00:10:08.450 --> 00:10:10.149 - really probably is literal 281 00:10:10.485 --> 00:10:12.964 - because it does take some luck to to 282 00:10:12.964 --> 00:10:13.945 - make it through, 283 00:10:14.725 --> 00:10:16.424 - to make it through these things, 284 00:10:18.404 --> 00:10:20.424 - you can get a lot of marketing mileage 285 00:10:20.485 --> 00:10:23.250 - out of, out of out of winning or 286 00:10:23.490 --> 00:10:25.730 - placing or being a finalist or, you know, 287 00:10:25.730 --> 00:10:28.769 - anything anything like that. Definitely. I, as a 288 00:10:28.769 --> 00:10:29.909 - reader and a browser 289 00:10:30.210 --> 00:10:32.929 - for new books, I definitely take that seriously. 290 00:10:32.929 --> 00:10:34.950 - If I see someone was a finalist, semifinalist, 291 00:10:35.090 --> 00:10:37.115 - let alone won an award, 292 00:10:38.375 --> 00:10:40.634 - straight away, the, you know, that kind of, 293 00:10:41.014 --> 00:10:44.235 - the the buying brain, there's some there's some 294 00:10:44.375 --> 00:10:47.035 - credibility there in that pro in that product. 295 00:10:47.975 --> 00:10:49.230 - You straight away think, well, 296 00:10:49.789 --> 00:10:51.149 - it it has to have gone through some 297 00:10:51.149 --> 00:10:54.049 - kind of independent and objective to some degree 298 00:10:54.509 --> 00:10:56.990 - process to to get that far. You know? 299 00:10:56.990 --> 00:10:58.750 - Some some people who know what they're talking 300 00:10:58.750 --> 00:11:00.209 - about and what they're thinking about 301 00:11:00.589 --> 00:11:02.370 - have regarded that book 302 00:11:02.815 --> 00:11:04.735 - highly. So, okay, I'm gonna take a closer 303 00:11:04.735 --> 00:11:06.014 - look and a and a more careful look 304 00:11:06.014 --> 00:11:07.454 - at this and a more serious look at 305 00:11:07.454 --> 00:11:10.014 - this. Yeah. So it it definitely works in 306 00:11:10.014 --> 00:11:12.414 - terms of buying psychology and the kudos of 307 00:11:12.414 --> 00:11:14.574 - the book or the story. The short story? 308 00:11:14.574 --> 00:11:15.000 - Yeah. 309 00:11:15.480 --> 00:11:17.240 - For sure. I use it. So I'm querying 310 00:11:17.240 --> 00:11:19.240 - agents again at the moment with a with 311 00:11:19.240 --> 00:11:21.080 - a new new book project and a very 312 00:11:21.080 --> 00:11:21.980 - old book project, 313 00:11:22.519 --> 00:11:24.279 - which is a the the older one is 314 00:11:24.279 --> 00:11:24.440 - a 315 00:11:25.159 --> 00:11:27.399 - it's kinda one of those mishmashes of genres 316 00:11:27.399 --> 00:11:28.919 - that's hard to play, so it's it's gonna 317 00:11:28.919 --> 00:11:30.404 - be doing the rounds for a long time. 318 00:11:30.565 --> 00:11:32.185 - But I I mentioned 319 00:11:32.884 --> 00:11:33.384 - these 320 00:11:33.685 --> 00:11:34.825 - semifinalist shortlist, 321 00:11:36.165 --> 00:11:36.665 - credits 322 00:11:37.285 --> 00:11:40.085 - in there. I I I, you know, shoehorn 323 00:11:40.085 --> 00:11:41.365 - those things in there and some to some 324 00:11:41.365 --> 00:11:42.985 - degree without laboring the point. 325 00:11:43.399 --> 00:11:45.480 - Because and I'm and I've heard agents say, 326 00:11:45.480 --> 00:11:47.320 - meh. I don't take any notice of that, 327 00:11:47.320 --> 00:11:48.759 - but I've heard an equal amount of agents 328 00:11:48.919 --> 00:11:50.679 - literary agents say, no. I do take notice 329 00:11:50.679 --> 00:11:52.919 - of that. You know, that that means this 330 00:11:52.919 --> 00:11:55.320 - this writer has some chops. They've they've been 331 00:11:55.320 --> 00:11:56.860 - around. They know what they're doing. 332 00:11:57.315 --> 00:11:58.434 - Yeah. They're they're teasing. 333 00:11:58.995 --> 00:12:00.294 - Readers. Could be very subjective. 334 00:12:00.915 --> 00:12:03.715 - Of course. Yeah. Yeah. It is. But equal 335 00:12:03.715 --> 00:12:04.855 - numbers anyway. Yeah. 336 00:12:06.434 --> 00:12:06.934 - So, 337 00:12:07.875 --> 00:12:09.875 - Brian, what is hanging around your neck that's 338 00:12:09.875 --> 00:12:11.575 - been bothering me? There's like a ribbon. 339 00:12:12.470 --> 00:12:13.669 - Thing, or is it just part of your 340 00:12:13.669 --> 00:12:16.149 - hoodie? Oh, this? Oh, no. Oh, this would 341 00:12:16.149 --> 00:12:17.929 - be the that silver medal I mentioned. 342 00:12:18.389 --> 00:12:18.889 - Uh-huh. 343 00:12:19.589 --> 00:12:20.970 - Yeah. Look at that. 344 00:12:21.589 --> 00:12:23.990 - Shiny. Yeah. I I I forgot I plum 345 00:12:23.990 --> 00:12:25.129 - forgot I had it on. 346 00:12:25.644 --> 00:12:26.144 - I, 347 00:12:27.004 --> 00:12:27.504 - yeah. 348 00:12:27.884 --> 00:12:30.684 - I just so we we record this, a 349 00:12:30.684 --> 00:12:32.865 - few weeks before it airs, folks. 350 00:12:33.884 --> 00:12:35.105 - I just got this, 351 00:12:35.964 --> 00:12:38.605 - this last week, so I'm very excited about 352 00:12:38.605 --> 00:12:41.360 - it. But if you are watching our things 353 00:12:41.360 --> 00:12:42.959 - as they come out, it was several weeks 354 00:12:42.959 --> 00:12:43.860 - ago for you. 355 00:12:44.480 --> 00:12:46.820 - Yeah. So that's just arrived in the mail. 356 00:12:47.519 --> 00:12:49.600 - So it's silver metal. Yeah. It's silver metal. 357 00:12:49.759 --> 00:12:51.779 - Not not too shabby at all. 358 00:12:52.159 --> 00:12:53.919 - That's just arrived in the mail. It's not 359 00:12:53.919 --> 00:12:54.419 - silver. 360 00:12:54.825 --> 00:12:57.225 - It's not made out of silver. Gotcha. Yeah. 361 00:12:57.225 --> 00:12:58.745 - And I Which is good because it won't 362 00:12:58.745 --> 00:12:59.245 - tarnish. 363 00:12:59.705 --> 00:13:02.665 - Yeah. Right. Right. Well, how did you feel 364 00:13:02.665 --> 00:13:04.524 - opening that package and seeing that? 365 00:13:05.384 --> 00:13:06.825 - I I mean, I knew it was coming, 366 00:13:06.825 --> 00:13:08.365 - so that wasn't a surprise. 367 00:13:11.309 --> 00:13:12.929 - It was great. I mean, 368 00:13:16.350 --> 00:13:18.290 - this contest is pretty large. 369 00:13:19.070 --> 00:13:20.290 - I did not expect 370 00:13:21.149 --> 00:13:21.649 - to 371 00:13:22.394 --> 00:13:22.894 - place. 372 00:13:23.514 --> 00:13:25.995 - I didn't I didn't expect anything out of 373 00:13:25.995 --> 00:13:27.195 - it. It was and it it was a 374 00:13:27.195 --> 00:13:28.154 - matter of fact, it was one of the 375 00:13:28.154 --> 00:13:30.815 - last competitions that I entered my book in. 376 00:13:31.274 --> 00:13:32.024 - Mhmm. And 377 00:13:34.330 --> 00:13:36.409 - it was huge to to I I mean, 378 00:13:36.409 --> 00:13:39.049 - I I I frankly still really can't believe 379 00:13:39.049 --> 00:13:39.549 - it. 380 00:13:41.289 --> 00:13:42.509 - It's it was it was 381 00:13:43.929 --> 00:13:44.429 - fantastic 382 00:13:44.809 --> 00:13:46.750 - and, and wonderful. And 383 00:13:47.324 --> 00:13:50.245 - that is another potential benefit for being in 384 00:13:50.245 --> 00:13:51.824 - a competition. It's the 385 00:13:52.204 --> 00:13:54.044 - the kind of lift that we can get 386 00:13:54.044 --> 00:13:55.985 - as a writer if you get any kind 387 00:13:56.204 --> 00:13:56.865 - of recognition 388 00:13:57.404 --> 00:13:59.485 - Yeah. From in a competition. Yeah. I mean, 389 00:13:59.485 --> 00:14:00.384 - not not necessarily 390 00:14:01.389 --> 00:14:03.470 - just placing, but, you know, making a shortlist, 391 00:14:03.470 --> 00:14:04.289 - being a semifinalist, 392 00:14:05.230 --> 00:14:06.049 - being a finalist. 393 00:14:07.709 --> 00:14:08.110 - That 394 00:14:09.309 --> 00:14:10.909 - I mean, we writers tend to be a 395 00:14:10.909 --> 00:14:12.049 - needy lot. Right? 396 00:14:13.070 --> 00:14:13.570 - Yes. 397 00:14:13.884 --> 00:14:15.985 - You know, I mean, we're we're we're artists, 398 00:14:16.204 --> 00:14:18.784 - and we we want affirmation and validation, 399 00:14:20.204 --> 00:14:22.605 - I think as a species and a species 400 00:14:22.845 --> 00:14:25.584 - the species being writers. Yeah. So 401 00:14:25.899 --> 00:14:27.919 - getting that lift can be a great thing. 402 00:14:28.220 --> 00:14:29.120 - 100%. 403 00:14:29.259 --> 00:14:30.620 - And I think too if you if you've 404 00:14:30.620 --> 00:14:32.459 - gone into a competition where they do give 405 00:14:32.459 --> 00:14:32.959 - feedback, 406 00:14:33.580 --> 00:14:35.600 - and even just from that positive feedback, 407 00:14:36.059 --> 00:14:38.985 - is is a massive lift as well. 408 00:14:39.445 --> 00:14:40.665 - Again, I think because 409 00:14:41.125 --> 00:14:42.884 - these are not this is not your your 410 00:14:42.884 --> 00:14:44.565 - your mom or your dad. This is this 411 00:14:44.565 --> 00:14:45.785 - is not your best friend, 412 00:14:46.245 --> 00:14:47.925 - you know, let alone someone in your writing 413 00:14:47.925 --> 00:14:48.745 - group who 414 00:14:50.004 --> 00:14:51.419 - means the best for you, but has got 415 00:14:51.419 --> 00:14:52.940 - a bit familiar with you. This is someone 416 00:14:52.940 --> 00:14:54.940 - who doesn't know you at all, who's come 417 00:14:54.940 --> 00:14:56.860 - cold to your writing, and they they're saying, 418 00:14:56.860 --> 00:14:59.259 - I really love this at this moment. I 419 00:14:59.259 --> 00:15:01.419 - love this character. I love the way you 420 00:15:01.419 --> 00:15:03.019 - did this. I loved your bit of prose 421 00:15:03.019 --> 00:15:03.839 - in this section. 422 00:15:04.355 --> 00:15:06.434 - To get that feedback and go, oh god. 423 00:15:06.434 --> 00:15:07.975 - I'm doing something right. 424 00:15:08.355 --> 00:15:10.675 - That's that's jet fuel for most of us. 425 00:15:10.675 --> 00:15:12.455 - So yeah. Yeah. It's very useful. 426 00:15:12.835 --> 00:15:14.295 - The flip side is that, 427 00:15:15.715 --> 00:15:17.415 - if you are the type 428 00:15:19.120 --> 00:15:20.179 - to be devastated 429 00:15:20.720 --> 00:15:21.540 - by not 430 00:15:22.320 --> 00:15:23.220 - moving on 431 00:15:24.960 --> 00:15:25.940 - to the next round, 432 00:15:31.054 --> 00:15:33.294 - Maybe be careful about entering. I mean, it 433 00:15:33.294 --> 00:15:34.194 - really kind of depends 434 00:15:34.735 --> 00:15:36.194 - on how sensitive we are 435 00:15:38.894 --> 00:15:39.714 - and your expectations. 436 00:15:42.095 --> 00:15:43.235 - One thing is that 437 00:15:44.720 --> 00:15:46.980 - in the SPSFC and in SPIFBO 438 00:15:47.360 --> 00:15:48.179 - and probably 439 00:15:48.639 --> 00:15:50.259 - most of the competitions 440 00:15:51.120 --> 00:15:52.240 - that rely on, 441 00:15:53.919 --> 00:15:54.899 - volunteer judges, 442 00:15:56.575 --> 00:15:58.815 - Your book is going to be read, and 443 00:15:58.815 --> 00:16:00.914 - and and I don't I don't know from 444 00:16:01.134 --> 00:16:02.115 - short story competitions. 445 00:16:03.294 --> 00:16:05.294 - K. But you're if you're if you're in 446 00:16:05.294 --> 00:16:07.294 - a novel competition, your book is only gonna 447 00:16:07.294 --> 00:16:07.955 - be read, 448 00:16:08.559 --> 00:16:09.379 - you know, 10 449 00:16:10.079 --> 00:16:12.339 - to 20 maybe 25% 450 00:16:12.879 --> 00:16:13.860 - in the first round. 451 00:16:14.639 --> 00:16:16.500 - And and that's just, I mean, that's just 452 00:16:16.720 --> 00:16:18.480 - that's just the only way they could possibly 453 00:16:18.480 --> 00:16:20.079 - do it. It it can be a massive 454 00:16:20.079 --> 00:16:22.565 - surprise to hear that, that that the first 455 00:16:22.565 --> 00:16:24.404 - round judges are not reading the entire thing. 456 00:16:24.404 --> 00:16:26.245 - But, yeah, exactly. If you think they they 457 00:16:26.245 --> 00:16:26.745 - have 458 00:16:27.444 --> 00:16:30.164 - up upwards of 20 novels, even if they 459 00:16:30.164 --> 00:16:31.764 - had 10 novels to read and those novels 460 00:16:31.764 --> 00:16:35.065 - averaged a 100,000 words. Goodness. Right. Right. 461 00:16:36.029 --> 00:16:38.509 - Yeah. It it it's it's it's it's 462 00:16:39.789 --> 00:16:40.690 - as a judge, 463 00:16:41.149 --> 00:16:42.450 - being a judge is burdensome. 464 00:16:44.830 --> 00:16:47.009 - I've I found being a judge burdensome. 465 00:16:47.870 --> 00:16:50.514 - Gen generally, we're talking about volunteers, people who 466 00:16:50.514 --> 00:16:51.554 - are doing it out of the goodness of 467 00:16:51.554 --> 00:16:53.315 - their heart and their passion for the for 468 00:16:53.315 --> 00:16:55.334 - the genre the image the image, the industry, 469 00:16:56.434 --> 00:16:57.815 - or the the genre, 470 00:16:58.434 --> 00:16:58.834 - or the 471 00:17:00.274 --> 00:17:00.774 - yeah. 472 00:17:01.154 --> 00:17:01.654 - So 473 00:17:01.955 --> 00:17:03.794 - they've gotta fit that around their work life, 474 00:17:03.794 --> 00:17:04.535 - their pursuits. 475 00:17:06.559 --> 00:17:08.559 - So it's a lot of work. Yeah. They 476 00:17:08.559 --> 00:17:10.320 - have to do so. That's a good way 477 00:17:10.320 --> 00:17:11.920 - to manage it is, you know, read read 478 00:17:11.920 --> 00:17:14.420 - 10 to 25% of the of each book. 479 00:17:15.119 --> 00:17:17.279 - It it is certainly a way of managing 480 00:17:17.279 --> 00:17:18.640 - it. Right? I mean, it it is be 481 00:17:18.720 --> 00:17:20.605 - it need to be that or limiting the 482 00:17:20.605 --> 00:17:23.424 - competition to 80 books. Right. 483 00:17:24.365 --> 00:17:26.384 - And, like, I think this year, the SPSFC, 484 00:17:26.924 --> 00:17:28.924 - I think we got, like, a 186 485 00:17:28.924 --> 00:17:29.424 - books. 486 00:17:29.724 --> 00:17:32.144 - Don't quote me on that. And I'm I'm 487 00:17:32.299 --> 00:17:34.059 - maybe well off or maybe just a little 488 00:17:34.059 --> 00:17:36.059 - off. Yeah. Last year, I think there were 489 00:17:36.059 --> 00:17:36.640 - more like 490 00:17:38.299 --> 00:17:40.220 - there were there were definitely over 200 books 491 00:17:40.220 --> 00:17:40.880 - last year. 492 00:17:41.259 --> 00:17:42.220 - Mhmm. And, 493 00:17:43.579 --> 00:17:46.640 - And Spiffbo, by the fantasy version, by comparison, 494 00:17:46.700 --> 00:17:48.159 - had started with 300 495 00:17:48.674 --> 00:17:51.075 - books. And they limited it to 300? They 496 00:17:51.075 --> 00:17:52.774 - limited it. Yes. They did well up. Because 497 00:17:52.914 --> 00:17:55.554 - fantasy is is is basically one of one 498 00:17:55.554 --> 00:17:57.394 - of the biggest subgenres. Yeah. Or one of 499 00:17:57.394 --> 00:17:58.755 - the So there has to be some kind 500 00:17:58.755 --> 00:18:00.929 - of process to manage that. Yeah. And that 501 00:18:00.929 --> 00:18:03.169 - that makes sense. Yeah. So then once they 502 00:18:03.169 --> 00:18:04.929 - get through that first round, then the books 503 00:18:04.929 --> 00:18:06.529 - who make the next round, they they are 504 00:18:06.529 --> 00:18:08.470 - expected to be read in their entirety. 505 00:18:09.169 --> 00:18:11.190 - Right. But by by the team 506 00:18:12.130 --> 00:18:15.424 - that is judging them. Right. So, like, and 507 00:18:15.424 --> 00:18:17.924 - so my my team has four people 508 00:18:19.184 --> 00:18:19.825 - in it, 509 00:18:20.305 --> 00:18:22.785 - and we we read all six of our 510 00:18:22.785 --> 00:18:23.765 - books that 511 00:18:24.065 --> 00:18:24.805 - were semifinalists, 512 00:18:26.000 --> 00:18:27.139 - and then we read, 513 00:18:31.519 --> 00:18:32.339 - we're reading 514 00:18:34.159 --> 00:18:35.619 - two two more books 515 00:18:39.134 --> 00:18:39.634 - because 516 00:18:42.174 --> 00:18:42.674 - because 517 00:18:45.294 --> 00:18:46.595 - I got to get this right. 518 00:18:48.015 --> 00:18:49.855 - Yeah, basically I have two more books to 519 00:18:49.855 --> 00:18:50.674 - read and 520 00:18:51.934 --> 00:18:53.799 - I'm reading one of them now. Because the 521 00:18:53.799 --> 00:18:55.339 - other four books that are 522 00:18:55.720 --> 00:18:57.339 - finalists, I've already read 523 00:18:57.720 --> 00:18:58.859 - in the process because 524 00:18:59.240 --> 00:18:59.740 - because 525 00:19:00.039 --> 00:19:00.779 - every basically, 526 00:19:01.080 --> 00:19:03.799 - more of what we read has advanced to 527 00:19:03.799 --> 00:19:05.349 - the to the rest of the competition. 528 00:19:05.815 --> 00:19:06.875 - Uh-huh. Yep. 529 00:19:07.734 --> 00:19:09.975 - Yeah. So it take they'd take quite some 530 00:19:09.975 --> 00:19:10.475 - time. 531 00:19:11.414 --> 00:19:13.115 - Yeah. They they they do. 532 00:19:13.575 --> 00:19:17.035 - And, so let's also talk about the fact 533 00:19:18.390 --> 00:19:18.890 - that 534 00:19:19.190 --> 00:19:22.650 - you want your books beginning to be tight. 535 00:19:23.509 --> 00:19:24.869 - If you if you're going to enter a 536 00:19:24.869 --> 00:19:25.369 - competition, 537 00:19:26.869 --> 00:19:27.369 - your 538 00:19:27.750 --> 00:19:29.750 - first chapter at the very least needs to 539 00:19:29.750 --> 00:19:31.884 - be tight, and you should you should make 540 00:19:31.884 --> 00:19:33.565 - sure the first 25% 541 00:19:33.565 --> 00:19:35.404 - is super you should be making sure your 542 00:19:35.404 --> 00:19:37.805 - entire book is tight. I'm a big believer 543 00:19:37.805 --> 00:19:39.404 - in editing and re editing and re editing 544 00:19:39.404 --> 00:19:41.724 - and re editing and re editing. Mhmm. I 545 00:19:41.724 --> 00:19:43.484 - I may be a little bit obsessive about 546 00:19:43.484 --> 00:19:45.890 - that, but you want to make sure that 547 00:19:45.890 --> 00:19:47.589 - the beginning of your book is tight, 548 00:19:48.210 --> 00:19:49.670 - and this plays directly 549 00:19:51.730 --> 00:19:53.589 - to people buying your book too. 550 00:19:54.130 --> 00:19:55.269 - Because people, 551 00:19:57.265 --> 00:19:58.005 - there are 552 00:19:58.585 --> 00:19:59.085 - there 553 00:19:59.664 --> 00:20:01.825 - are a lot of people who may end 554 00:20:01.825 --> 00:20:04.005 - up starting your book, and if your 555 00:20:04.625 --> 00:20:07.765 - beginning is is is not tight, 556 00:20:08.160 --> 00:20:09.299 - If your beginning, 557 00:20:09.680 --> 00:20:10.180 - has, 558 00:20:10.480 --> 00:20:11.140 - you know, 559 00:20:12.400 --> 00:20:14.400 - plot issues or or, 560 00:20:15.600 --> 00:20:17.440 - there was there was one book that I 561 00:20:17.440 --> 00:20:18.580 - read recently that 562 00:20:20.735 --> 00:20:21.795 - the names kept changing. 563 00:20:24.575 --> 00:20:25.555 - For for characters? 564 00:20:25.934 --> 00:20:26.434 - Yes. 565 00:20:27.695 --> 00:20:28.195 - Yes. 566 00:20:28.495 --> 00:20:29.634 - Just sloppy stuff. 567 00:20:29.934 --> 00:20:31.154 - Sloppy stuff, 568 00:20:31.695 --> 00:20:33.455 - and you don't want to do that. You 569 00:20:33.455 --> 00:20:35.259 - don't you do not want to be the 570 00:20:35.259 --> 00:20:36.700 - person. And if you're entering your book in 571 00:20:36.700 --> 00:20:39.279 - a competition, you don't want your book dismissed 572 00:20:39.900 --> 00:20:40.400 - because 573 00:20:41.019 --> 00:20:43.200 - it's, you know, sloppy mistakes. 574 00:20:45.019 --> 00:20:47.259 - Yeah. And this is where we we go 575 00:20:47.259 --> 00:20:49.339 - the complete opposite from the controversial comments I 576 00:20:49.339 --> 00:20:50.400 - was making at the beginning. 577 00:20:50.794 --> 00:20:52.095 - This is not the place 578 00:20:52.634 --> 00:20:54.474 - to enter something and think, oh, I wonder 579 00:20:54.474 --> 00:20:55.914 - how this will land. I wonder what kind 580 00:20:55.914 --> 00:20:57.755 - of feedback. This is where you have something 581 00:20:57.755 --> 00:20:59.994 - that's that's you're ready to you'll be happy 582 00:20:59.994 --> 00:21:02.894 - to send to agents and and publishing houses. 583 00:21:02.940 --> 00:21:04.619 - You know, it needs to be that tight, 584 00:21:04.619 --> 00:21:06.319 - that polished, that interesting. 585 00:21:07.500 --> 00:21:09.500 - You're at the top of your game. You've 586 00:21:09.500 --> 00:21:11.980 - done every single thing. You've probably paid for 587 00:21:11.980 --> 00:21:12.480 - proofreading 588 00:21:12.859 --> 00:21:15.019 - already before it's ended this. You've paid for 589 00:21:15.019 --> 00:21:15.519 - editing. 590 00:21:17.214 --> 00:21:18.654 - You've had another look at it before it 591 00:21:18.654 --> 00:21:20.414 - goes in at least once just to make 592 00:21:20.414 --> 00:21:22.494 - sure you've run it by several friends to 593 00:21:22.494 --> 00:21:24.095 - get them to proofread it. So it's gone 594 00:21:24.095 --> 00:21:25.855 - through the grid. Yeah. And it's a bit 595 00:21:25.934 --> 00:21:28.355 - yeah. And I actually think that that is 596 00:21:28.909 --> 00:21:29.950 - even though it might be a little bit 597 00:21:29.950 --> 00:21:31.390 - controversial in some ways to say, well, they 598 00:21:31.390 --> 00:21:33.490 - only read 10 to 25% of the book 599 00:21:33.789 --> 00:21:35.869 - in the first round. I still think that's 600 00:21:35.869 --> 00:21:37.950 - a pretty good rubric to to to go 601 00:21:37.950 --> 00:21:39.569 - by to see if this book is 602 00:21:40.349 --> 00:21:40.849 - is 603 00:21:41.390 --> 00:21:43.069 - maybe not worthy is the wrong word because 604 00:21:43.069 --> 00:21:44.369 - it's subjective, but 605 00:21:45.115 --> 00:21:47.355 - deserves getting through. Because, again, if if readers 606 00:21:47.355 --> 00:21:48.875 - are gonna check out in the first 10% 607 00:21:48.875 --> 00:21:50.794 - of the book, that book's not gonna do 608 00:21:50.794 --> 00:21:53.275 - well in the marketplace anyway, generally. No. Nope. 609 00:21:53.275 --> 00:21:55.534 - It's not. It's not gonna attract an agent 610 00:21:56.075 --> 00:21:57.994 - who might give it five pages before they 611 00:21:57.994 --> 00:21:59.779 - go, nah. It's not working for me. I'm 612 00:21:59.779 --> 00:22:01.240 - not sure I can sell this. 613 00:22:02.500 --> 00:22:04.200 - That's just the cruel reality 614 00:22:04.500 --> 00:22:06.759 - of the world. Yeah. And the judges, 615 00:22:07.779 --> 00:22:09.380 - I I I don't I can't I I 616 00:22:09.380 --> 00:22:10.759 - can only speak for myself. 617 00:22:12.315 --> 00:22:13.514 - But in the, 618 00:22:13.994 --> 00:22:14.894 - when we had 619 00:22:15.434 --> 00:22:15.934 - twenty 620 00:22:16.315 --> 00:22:17.774 - twenty some odd books 621 00:22:18.234 --> 00:22:20.414 - that I needed to read 20% of, 622 00:22:21.034 --> 00:22:22.875 - I was looking for reasons to to to 623 00:22:22.875 --> 00:22:24.269 - stop reading. Yeah. 624 00:22:24.830 --> 00:22:26.670 - And that that echoes this is a slight 625 00:22:26.670 --> 00:22:29.390 - sidetrack, but that echoes the experience of what 626 00:22:29.390 --> 00:22:32.190 - what have traditionally been called slush pile readers 627 00:22:32.190 --> 00:22:32.690 - who 628 00:22:33.470 --> 00:22:35.330 - are reading for an anthology or a magazine, 629 00:22:35.869 --> 00:22:38.404 - and they might have 200 short stories, or 630 00:22:38.404 --> 00:22:39.924 - even they might have a 100 short stories 631 00:22:39.924 --> 00:22:42.404 - a month that they that are submitted that 632 00:22:42.404 --> 00:22:43.845 - they have to wade through and choose three 633 00:22:43.845 --> 00:22:45.144 - or four or five of them. 634 00:22:45.684 --> 00:22:47.605 - And they will use that exact same language 635 00:22:47.605 --> 00:22:49.205 - because I've heard them talk about it. You 636 00:22:49.205 --> 00:22:50.884 - know, I'm looking for reasons to check out 637 00:22:50.884 --> 00:22:52.079 - and go on to the next one. 638 00:22:52.880 --> 00:22:54.559 - So if it's Yep. And that's they will 639 00:22:54.559 --> 00:22:55.859 - not give a short story, 640 00:22:56.319 --> 00:22:58.339 - a novella, let alone a novel, 641 00:22:58.640 --> 00:23:00.559 - the benefit of the doubt, and keep reading 642 00:23:00.559 --> 00:23:01.919 - if it's not doing it, if it's not 643 00:23:01.919 --> 00:23:03.519 - hitting those marks in the first page or 644 00:23:03.519 --> 00:23:05.859 - two. Sometimes even the first couple of paragraphs, 645 00:23:07.005 --> 00:23:09.164 - sometimes you've lost them. And it's just human 646 00:23:09.164 --> 00:23:11.244 - psychology. Yeah. Yeah. It it is. Yeah. It's 647 00:23:11.244 --> 00:23:13.565 - very human psychology. But as a judge, it 648 00:23:13.724 --> 00:23:16.125 - so I've judged for short story competitions, and 649 00:23:16.125 --> 00:23:18.045 - it's very different. You you're expected to read 650 00:23:18.045 --> 00:23:19.984 - the entire thing, and you absolutely do. 651 00:23:20.690 --> 00:23:22.769 - And sometimes I've been really glad that I've 652 00:23:22.769 --> 00:23:25.410 - got through some doubts over the first page 653 00:23:25.410 --> 00:23:26.529 - or so that, you know, I thought there's 654 00:23:26.529 --> 00:23:28.049 - not much of a hook here. And then 655 00:23:28.049 --> 00:23:29.809 - I've got to the second or third page 656 00:23:29.809 --> 00:23:31.910 - and thought, god. This is this is great. 657 00:23:32.384 --> 00:23:35.265 - Like, the prose is beautiful. The the premise 658 00:23:35.265 --> 00:23:36.565 - of this story is lovely. 659 00:23:37.025 --> 00:23:38.785 - Wow. If they maybe if they just tweak 660 00:23:38.785 --> 00:23:40.224 - the first page a bit, they they could 661 00:23:40.224 --> 00:23:41.845 - go far with this short story. 662 00:23:42.144 --> 00:23:44.305 - But that's a different thing. Like, I'm reading 663 00:23:44.305 --> 00:23:45.089 - 3,000, 664 00:23:45.169 --> 00:23:48.289 - 5,000 words rather than 50 to a 150,000 665 00:23:48.289 --> 00:23:50.789 - words Right. Of something. So yeah. 666 00:23:53.009 --> 00:23:54.390 - Right. Yeah. So, 667 00:23:56.609 --> 00:23:58.849 - that is that that's another aspect of of 668 00:23:58.849 --> 00:23:59.829 - entering your competition. 669 00:24:00.130 --> 00:24:00.789 - You are 670 00:24:01.394 --> 00:24:01.894 - largely, 671 00:24:06.275 --> 00:24:07.894 - you're in a subjective situation 672 00:24:09.234 --> 00:24:10.455 - because maybe 673 00:24:11.234 --> 00:24:12.134 - your book 674 00:24:13.490 --> 00:24:14.470 - would have done 675 00:24:15.170 --> 00:24:16.309 - better with a different 676 00:24:16.930 --> 00:24:17.430 - team. 677 00:24:18.049 --> 00:24:18.549 - Mhmm. 678 00:24:18.850 --> 00:24:20.470 - May maybe, maybe, 679 00:24:21.090 --> 00:24:21.910 - you know, 680 00:24:22.690 --> 00:24:24.930 - well, so I always say about agents, you 681 00:24:24.930 --> 00:24:26.950 - need the right agent on the right day 682 00:24:27.009 --> 00:24:28.545 - who had the right 683 00:24:29.105 --> 00:24:30.005 - cup of coffee 684 00:24:30.785 --> 00:24:32.404 - and has the right slush pile 685 00:24:32.865 --> 00:24:34.565 - and has the right, 686 00:24:37.825 --> 00:24:39.265 - the right thing that they want to sell, 687 00:24:39.265 --> 00:24:41.285 - the right thing that they're looking for. Right? 688 00:24:41.345 --> 00:24:43.765 - There's just a whole bunch of 689 00:24:44.329 --> 00:24:47.049 - things that you have to be lucky as 690 00:24:47.049 --> 00:24:48.829 - could be to hit that agent 691 00:24:49.529 --> 00:24:50.029 - with. 692 00:24:51.450 --> 00:24:53.070 - The same thing is true with these competitions. 693 00:24:55.930 --> 00:24:56.910 - You don't know 694 00:24:57.924 --> 00:24:58.664 - when you're, 695 00:24:59.765 --> 00:25:02.045 - the team that's judging your book. Maybe they're 696 00:25:02.244 --> 00:25:03.705 - someone's having a bad day 697 00:25:05.045 --> 00:25:06.984 - and this is just a reality. 698 00:25:08.005 --> 00:25:10.085 - Right? And you you need to you need 699 00:25:10.085 --> 00:25:12.025 - to be prepared. You so like, 700 00:25:13.319 --> 00:25:15.900 - I do I I think there's value in 701 00:25:16.599 --> 00:25:19.500 - in finding affirmation and validation in advancing. 702 00:25:20.759 --> 00:25:23.659 - That that should genuinely lift you up. 703 00:25:24.039 --> 00:25:24.539 - Getting 704 00:25:24.839 --> 00:25:25.819 - getting cut 705 00:25:26.724 --> 00:25:27.625 - shouldn't necessarily 706 00:25:28.325 --> 00:25:29.065 - put you down. 707 00:25:29.525 --> 00:25:31.224 - Yeah. It doesn't mean the book's broken 708 00:25:31.525 --> 00:25:34.105 - at all. No. Yep. Yeah. There was there 709 00:25:34.244 --> 00:25:36.325 - was a there was a particular book that, 710 00:25:37.365 --> 00:25:39.924 - me and and one judge liked and the 711 00:25:39.924 --> 00:25:42.099 - other two judges just didn't. And I was 712 00:25:42.099 --> 00:25:44.419 - super bummed. I was I I wanted I 713 00:25:44.419 --> 00:25:45.140 - want I want 714 00:25:45.700 --> 00:25:47.299 - I have this book. I'm still gonna read 715 00:25:47.299 --> 00:25:47.799 - it. 716 00:25:48.500 --> 00:25:49.000 - Right? 717 00:25:49.619 --> 00:25:50.980 - As as soon as I can get done 718 00:25:50.980 --> 00:25:52.419 - with all the other reading that I've got 719 00:25:52.419 --> 00:25:53.000 - to do. 720 00:25:53.539 --> 00:25:54.279 - But the 721 00:25:55.065 --> 00:25:56.505 - the the the point is is that not 722 00:25:56.505 --> 00:25:57.724 - every book is going to hit 723 00:25:58.105 --> 00:25:58.924 - the same way 724 00:25:59.464 --> 00:25:59.964 - with 725 00:26:00.265 --> 00:26:01.884 - with with different judges. And, 726 00:26:02.505 --> 00:26:04.284 - so you need to be 727 00:26:06.265 --> 00:26:08.524 - it is important to to manage your expectations 728 00:26:08.585 --> 00:26:09.820 - going into a competition, a competition, I guess, 729 00:26:09.820 --> 00:26:11.680 - is what I'm trying to say. 100%. 730 00:26:11.900 --> 00:26:13.440 - From a judging point of view, 731 00:26:13.820 --> 00:26:15.420 - so when I was on the team of 732 00:26:15.420 --> 00:26:17.259 - three judges for the short stories in the 733 00:26:17.259 --> 00:26:18.320 - Shatters Awards, 734 00:26:19.259 --> 00:26:21.820 - we were given I I thought that the 735 00:26:21.820 --> 00:26:22.720 - woman who 736 00:26:23.394 --> 00:26:25.555 - kinda ran the judging for us did a 737 00:26:25.555 --> 00:26:27.154 - really good job of it. So she she 738 00:26:27.154 --> 00:26:27.815 - gave us 739 00:26:28.194 --> 00:26:29.795 - we we read everything. So all three of 740 00:26:29.795 --> 00:26:31.315 - us read every story. There wasn't there was 741 00:26:31.394 --> 00:26:33.075 - I don't remember exactly. It was 50 to 742 00:26:33.075 --> 00:26:35.970 - 60 stories. So it wasn't a terribly owner 743 00:26:35.970 --> 00:26:38.210 - is kinda workload. Mhmm. But we read everything, 744 00:26:38.210 --> 00:26:40.070 - and then she gave us a very strict, 745 00:26:40.130 --> 00:26:41.890 - what I call a rubric or a framework 746 00:26:41.890 --> 00:26:42.710 - or a grid 747 00:26:43.009 --> 00:26:44.930 - to mark them out of five by. So 748 00:26:44.930 --> 00:26:46.150 - you had five 749 00:26:46.769 --> 00:26:47.269 - things 750 00:26:48.055 --> 00:26:49.335 - to to judge by, and you gave you 751 00:26:49.335 --> 00:26:51.115 - gave each story a mark out of five. 752 00:26:51.974 --> 00:26:54.295 - It took some of the subjectivity out of 753 00:26:54.295 --> 00:26:56.215 - it, which so there were a couple of 754 00:26:56.215 --> 00:26:58.315 - stories that and because it was horror, 755 00:26:58.855 --> 00:27:01.869 - they unsettled me in a bad way. What 756 00:27:02.190 --> 00:27:03.789 - as in in the sense of, like, I 757 00:27:03.789 --> 00:27:06.029 - just was like, I just don't like this 758 00:27:06.029 --> 00:27:07.009 - subject matter 759 00:27:07.390 --> 00:27:09.009 - personally. Personally, subjectively. 760 00:27:09.630 --> 00:27:10.130 - But 761 00:27:10.990 --> 00:27:14.109 - their execution of this and this was top 762 00:27:14.109 --> 00:27:15.835 - notch, Five stuff. You know? Five out of 763 00:27:15.835 --> 00:27:18.474 - five. A 100%. So I'm giving giving them 764 00:27:18.474 --> 00:27:19.934 - a even though I might think 765 00:27:20.714 --> 00:27:22.394 - I don't I'm not saying I didn't respect 766 00:27:22.394 --> 00:27:23.755 - the story, but if even if I thought 767 00:27:23.755 --> 00:27:25.434 - I don't respect this story, you know, in 768 00:27:25.434 --> 00:27:26.634 - this writer, I must be this kind of 769 00:27:26.634 --> 00:27:28.234 - person because they've written this kind of story 770 00:27:28.234 --> 00:27:29.674 - with this kind of character with this kind 771 00:27:29.674 --> 00:27:30.255 - of content. 772 00:27:30.609 --> 00:27:31.889 - I've still got a I've still got a 773 00:27:31.889 --> 00:27:33.970 - market fairly. So we she did a really 774 00:27:33.970 --> 00:27:35.669 - good job of taking some of that subjectivity 775 00:27:35.809 --> 00:27:38.210 - out of it. That's good. When then we 776 00:27:38.210 --> 00:27:39.649 - got to the final so the final thing 777 00:27:39.649 --> 00:27:40.389 - was we 778 00:27:41.089 --> 00:27:43.809 - came together with our top three choices, and 779 00:27:43.809 --> 00:27:45.909 - our top three choices were based on marks. 780 00:27:46.275 --> 00:27:47.875 - So a couple of us came with four 781 00:27:47.875 --> 00:27:50.615 - because we had equal kinda third place getters, 782 00:27:51.154 --> 00:27:53.095 - if that makes sense, or second place getters. 783 00:27:54.195 --> 00:27:56.515 - There were there were some consensus. Like, there 784 00:27:56.515 --> 00:27:57.494 - was there was 785 00:27:57.955 --> 00:28:00.195 - three, four stories maybe that appeared more than 786 00:28:00.195 --> 00:28:01.174 - once in our lists. 787 00:28:01.970 --> 00:28:02.470 - My 788 00:28:02.930 --> 00:28:04.690 - list had one that the other two both 789 00:28:04.690 --> 00:28:06.690 - had in it, and then it had two 790 00:28:06.690 --> 00:28:08.210 - that they didn't have at all. And I 791 00:28:08.210 --> 00:28:09.570 - actually thought one of those should have been 792 00:28:09.570 --> 00:28:11.490 - the one that that one like, I loved 793 00:28:11.490 --> 00:28:13.809 - that story. It was just one of the 794 00:28:13.809 --> 00:28:17.105 - greatest short stories I've ever read. Wow. But 795 00:28:17.105 --> 00:28:19.264 - the award went to another one. And it 796 00:28:19.264 --> 00:28:21.105 - was mainly because all three of us had 797 00:28:21.105 --> 00:28:22.944 - picked that one. It appeared on all our 798 00:28:22.944 --> 00:28:23.444 - lists. 799 00:28:23.984 --> 00:28:26.404 - And when we broke it down objectively, 800 00:28:27.264 --> 00:28:28.865 - it hit the right marks, and it was 801 00:28:28.865 --> 00:28:30.784 - fair that that that story got it. So 802 00:28:30.784 --> 00:28:32.160 - I couldn't complain. 803 00:28:33.660 --> 00:28:35.900 - But, you know, personally, I was subjectively, I 804 00:28:35.900 --> 00:28:37.920 - was like, oh, this other story should have 805 00:28:38.299 --> 00:28:39.039 - fared better. 806 00:28:39.980 --> 00:28:41.579 - But that does that make sense? That wasn't 807 00:28:41.579 --> 00:28:42.539 - the way that it that it kind of 808 00:28:42.539 --> 00:28:44.539 - been structured. So I took that subjectivity out 809 00:28:44.539 --> 00:28:45.075 - of it, 810 00:28:45.794 --> 00:28:46.994 - which I think was a great a great 811 00:28:46.994 --> 00:28:48.355 - way to do it. The the League of 812 00:28:48.355 --> 00:28:49.734 - Utah writers had a similar 813 00:28:50.115 --> 00:28:52.434 - process too that tried to remove as much 814 00:28:52.434 --> 00:28:54.434 - subjectivity as and as much the judge is 815 00:28:54.434 --> 00:28:56.755 - having a bad day, you know, that that 816 00:28:56.755 --> 00:28:58.289 - kind of stuff out of it. So, 817 00:28:58.850 --> 00:29:00.130 - one of the things you were expected to 818 00:29:00.130 --> 00:29:01.269 - do with that was give 819 00:29:01.890 --> 00:29:02.390 - constructive, 820 00:29:02.690 --> 00:29:03.670 - positively framed 821 00:29:04.369 --> 00:29:04.869 - feedback. 822 00:29:05.410 --> 00:29:07.009 - And even if you gave some advice, it 823 00:29:07.009 --> 00:29:08.710 - was to do that very, very sensitively 824 00:29:09.570 --> 00:29:11.890 - and encouragingly. And I thought that was a 825 00:29:11.890 --> 00:29:12.710 - really lovely, 826 00:29:13.825 --> 00:29:14.724 - very fair, 827 00:29:15.505 --> 00:29:18.144 - you know, and constructive way solution focused way 828 00:29:18.144 --> 00:29:19.524 - to do that for those writers. 829 00:29:19.904 --> 00:29:21.345 - And and it was fair right across the 830 00:29:21.345 --> 00:29:23.664 - board. So everybody got so I think everybody 831 00:29:23.664 --> 00:29:24.484 - got some value 832 00:29:25.200 --> 00:29:26.099 - from that experience 833 00:29:26.720 --> 00:29:28.579 - even if they didn't progress like you said. 834 00:29:29.119 --> 00:29:31.919 - So to that end, I I just thought 835 00:29:31.919 --> 00:29:33.220 - of a of a point 836 00:29:33.519 --> 00:29:35.200 - that we hadn't talked about before we started 837 00:29:35.200 --> 00:29:35.700 - recording, 838 00:29:36.399 --> 00:29:37.140 - and that's 839 00:29:39.144 --> 00:29:39.644 - being 840 00:29:40.505 --> 00:29:42.205 - being being, being a judge. 841 00:29:43.305 --> 00:29:45.705 - So I assume that most people listening to 842 00:29:45.705 --> 00:29:48.765 - us or watching us are writers. Right? 843 00:29:52.619 --> 00:29:53.259 - There is, 844 00:29:53.980 --> 00:29:56.319 - there is there is a place for writers 845 00:29:56.460 --> 00:29:58.940 - and readers to be judges, especially in these 846 00:29:58.940 --> 00:30:00.000 - volunteer competitions. 847 00:30:00.619 --> 00:30:01.119 - Right? 848 00:30:01.579 --> 00:30:02.079 - And 849 00:30:03.595 --> 00:30:05.855 - you being a judge, you taking your time 850 00:30:07.515 --> 00:30:08.734 - to be a judge 851 00:30:10.554 --> 00:30:12.494 - is really good for 852 00:30:13.115 --> 00:30:15.214 - the writing community and the reading community. 853 00:30:16.319 --> 00:30:16.819 - Right? 854 00:30:18.240 --> 00:30:20.900 - I mean, you're performing a service for sure, 855 00:30:22.720 --> 00:30:24.980 - but I feel like these competitions are important, 856 00:30:25.440 --> 00:30:26.420 - and that means 857 00:30:27.119 --> 00:30:28.454 - people participating in them. 858 00:30:28.934 --> 00:30:30.554 - People participating both from 859 00:30:30.855 --> 00:30:33.894 - from submitting their books, but also people people 860 00:30:33.894 --> 00:30:34.634 - people judging. 861 00:30:35.255 --> 00:30:35.575 - And, 862 00:30:36.454 --> 00:30:38.234 - I would very much encourage 863 00:30:39.335 --> 00:30:41.640 - anyone who's who's listening or watching us 864 00:30:42.119 --> 00:30:42.599 - to, 865 00:30:43.000 --> 00:30:44.380 - to get involved with competition, 866 00:30:44.680 --> 00:30:46.200 - be it a local competition or, 867 00:30:51.240 --> 00:30:52.859 - the Smithbo or the SPSFC. 868 00:30:55.625 --> 00:30:57.944 - And and there are are obviously tons of 869 00:30:57.944 --> 00:30:59.884 - other competitions and other genres too. 870 00:31:00.505 --> 00:31:02.605 - Yeah. But yeah. And there Get get involved. 871 00:31:03.065 --> 00:31:04.904 - Yeah. And there are there are benefits to 872 00:31:04.904 --> 00:31:06.345 - it. There are costs to it as well. 873 00:31:06.585 --> 00:31:08.924 - But some some of the benefits are that, 874 00:31:09.700 --> 00:31:11.380 - you know, it's like anything in terms of 875 00:31:11.380 --> 00:31:13.160 - of marketing. If you are a writer, 876 00:31:13.700 --> 00:31:15.240 - the more people see your name 877 00:31:15.700 --> 00:31:17.700 - just around the place. It's like a if 878 00:31:17.700 --> 00:31:19.080 - a new brand of of, 879 00:31:19.700 --> 00:31:21.940 - of, I don't know, toilet paper or baked 880 00:31:21.940 --> 00:31:24.100 - beans or something comes onto the market, people 881 00:31:24.100 --> 00:31:26.234 - don't trust that new name until they've seen 882 00:31:26.234 --> 00:31:27.835 - it, you know, maybe a dozen times, and 883 00:31:27.835 --> 00:31:29.535 - they start going, oh, this is it normalizes 884 00:31:29.674 --> 00:31:31.674 - it. So when people see our names, they 885 00:31:31.674 --> 00:31:33.275 - start to go, oh, it's that Brian guy. 886 00:31:33.275 --> 00:31:35.055 - It's that Pete guy again. 887 00:31:35.595 --> 00:31:36.954 - Who is this guy? And they start to 888 00:31:37.115 --> 00:31:38.555 - and then when they see your name attached 889 00:31:38.555 --> 00:31:40.430 - to a book, you know, potentially, they've got 890 00:31:40.430 --> 00:31:42.109 - more trust in that product in in that 891 00:31:42.109 --> 00:31:44.430 - book. But that's one. We talked when we 892 00:31:44.430 --> 00:31:46.769 - were talking about yeah. Exactly. Yep. 893 00:31:47.869 --> 00:31:50.589 - Brian's just flashing that silver medal again for 894 00:31:50.589 --> 00:31:51.250 - the listeners. 895 00:31:53.654 --> 00:31:55.974 - The idea of when we critique other people's 896 00:31:55.974 --> 00:31:58.234 - work too, we learn something as a writer. 897 00:31:58.294 --> 00:32:01.115 - Mhmm. It it absolutely kicks in with this, 898 00:32:01.255 --> 00:32:03.914 - and in some ways, actually fast tracks it. 899 00:32:03.974 --> 00:32:06.539 - Mhmm. So by reading, you know, a 100 900 00:32:06.700 --> 00:32:08.539 - short stories in the three or four month 901 00:32:08.539 --> 00:32:09.039 - period, 902 00:32:09.820 --> 00:32:11.519 - I started to see the same, 903 00:32:13.420 --> 00:32:13.920 - glitches 904 00:32:15.180 --> 00:32:17.500 - over and over again. And then Right. I 905 00:32:17.500 --> 00:32:19.600 - would have the honesty moment of going, 906 00:32:20.220 --> 00:32:20.720 - oh, 907 00:32:21.394 --> 00:32:23.634 - do I do that? Yeah. Dive back into 908 00:32:23.634 --> 00:32:25.414 - one of the works in progress and go, 909 00:32:25.954 --> 00:32:27.095 - yeah. I kinda do. 910 00:32:27.714 --> 00:32:29.234 - Right. So now we're gonna go on a 911 00:32:29.234 --> 00:32:30.754 - hunt and try it. Yeah. So, you know, 912 00:32:30.754 --> 00:32:32.674 - remove that stuff. You know? Or or that 913 00:32:32.754 --> 00:32:34.774 - that's a great way to frame a scene. 914 00:32:34.994 --> 00:32:36.799 - You know? Maybe and you're not, you know, 915 00:32:36.799 --> 00:32:38.419 - you're using that kind of technique 916 00:32:38.880 --> 00:32:40.319 - the way a painter would use a technique 917 00:32:40.319 --> 00:32:42.079 - from another painter to kind of frame a 918 00:32:42.079 --> 00:32:43.440 - scene that's coming up in your own work. 919 00:32:43.440 --> 00:32:45.299 - So you're learning so much from it. 920 00:32:45.839 --> 00:32:46.880 - I don't know if you can think of 921 00:32:46.880 --> 00:32:47.779 - any other benefits 922 00:32:48.400 --> 00:32:50.319 - I haven't mentioned. There there's there's a a 923 00:32:50.319 --> 00:32:52.724 - caveat that I wanna mention, but I'll I'll 924 00:32:52.724 --> 00:32:54.884 - save that for a second. Go ahead. Well, 925 00:32:54.884 --> 00:32:56.244 - the only thing is I think if you're 926 00:32:56.244 --> 00:32:58.244 - going to become a judge, and I would 927 00:32:58.244 --> 00:32:59.924 - echo what Brian said. I really encourage you 928 00:32:59.924 --> 00:33:00.664 - to do that. 929 00:33:01.684 --> 00:33:03.065 - Please, please, please 930 00:33:03.525 --> 00:33:03.845 - be 931 00:33:04.619 --> 00:33:06.940 - have some self awareness time and think about 932 00:33:06.940 --> 00:33:08.880 - what agendas am I taking into this 933 00:33:09.339 --> 00:33:10.640 - so that you're not 934 00:33:10.940 --> 00:33:13.740 - trying to steer writers in a certain direction 935 00:33:13.740 --> 00:33:16.140 - in terms of your politics or your ethics 936 00:33:16.140 --> 00:33:17.980 - or your religious views or Mhmm. Any of 937 00:33:17.980 --> 00:33:19.039 - those kind of things 938 00:33:19.494 --> 00:33:21.654 - where you might get on a soapbox about 939 00:33:21.654 --> 00:33:23.894 - that on your own Facebook page. Great. No 940 00:33:23.894 --> 00:33:25.414 - worries. You have every right in the world 941 00:33:25.414 --> 00:33:26.075 - to do that. 942 00:33:26.934 --> 00:33:28.294 - Books that you read and you leave a 943 00:33:28.294 --> 00:33:30.054 - review for because you paid for them and 944 00:33:30.054 --> 00:33:31.974 - something about them. But do the politics in 945 00:33:31.974 --> 00:33:33.674 - it? That's fine. You have every 946 00:33:34.130 --> 00:33:35.730 - every right in the world to to do 947 00:33:35.730 --> 00:33:37.830 - that and and to make your point heard. 948 00:33:38.049 --> 00:33:40.210 - When I'm judging someone's short story, when I'm 949 00:33:40.210 --> 00:33:42.869 - judging the open the opening of someone's book, 950 00:33:43.330 --> 00:33:45.190 - particularly that person's paid 951 00:33:45.970 --> 00:33:46.515 - for that, 952 00:33:47.075 --> 00:33:48.994 - I don't have any right to go, gee. 953 00:33:48.994 --> 00:33:50.595 - They're leaning a little bit to the right. 954 00:33:50.595 --> 00:33:52.275 - Their character's leaning a little bit to the 955 00:33:52.275 --> 00:33:54.835 - left here in their politics. You know? 956 00:33:55.875 --> 00:33:57.795 - You know, I don't I don't like this 957 00:33:57.795 --> 00:33:59.954 - particular brand of religion, so I'm really gonna 958 00:33:59.954 --> 00:34:01.954 - go hard after their depiction of that character 959 00:34:01.954 --> 00:34:04.089 - or the the kind of message that's coming 960 00:34:04.089 --> 00:34:06.089 - through. That's that's got nothing to do with 961 00:34:06.089 --> 00:34:06.829 - it. I'm judging 962 00:34:07.369 --> 00:34:09.690 - the story on the story's own mess merits 963 00:34:09.690 --> 00:34:11.929 - on the craft of the story, the impact 964 00:34:11.929 --> 00:34:13.210 - of the story. So I need to be 965 00:34:13.210 --> 00:34:15.195 - self aware enough to leave that side, that 966 00:34:15.195 --> 00:34:16.735 - stuff at the door. And and 967 00:34:17.035 --> 00:34:18.235 - and aside from the, 968 00:34:18.715 --> 00:34:19.215 - agenda 969 00:34:21.355 --> 00:34:21.855 - aspect, 970 00:34:22.394 --> 00:34:23.295 - there's also, 971 00:34:23.835 --> 00:34:25.755 - people who don't like first person or people 972 00:34:25.755 --> 00:34:27.755 - who don't like third person. Yes. You know? 973 00:34:27.755 --> 00:34:30.300 - Right. Just leave leave leave that at the 974 00:34:30.380 --> 00:34:31.199 - at the doorstep. 975 00:34:31.500 --> 00:34:33.579 - Yeah. Be open minded a bit. Yeah. Yeah. 976 00:34:33.579 --> 00:34:34.960 - Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. 977 00:34:35.340 --> 00:34:36.539 - And yeah. So, 978 00:34:37.340 --> 00:34:39.260 - And I got sorry. Just to I got 979 00:34:39.260 --> 00:34:41.340 - a one star review for a book because 980 00:34:41.340 --> 00:34:42.480 - it was first person. 981 00:34:43.184 --> 00:34:44.625 - Right. That was the that was the only 982 00:34:44.625 --> 00:34:46.305 - reason I could see in the review that 983 00:34:46.305 --> 00:34:48.565 - they gave it one star. It's like, 984 00:34:50.465 --> 00:34:51.985 - and I'm not sure that's the reason to 985 00:34:51.985 --> 00:34:54.305 - give it one star. I I feel like, 986 00:34:54.625 --> 00:34:56.644 - I feel like that would be more likely 987 00:34:56.704 --> 00:34:58.940 - to happen for writing in the third person. 988 00:34:59.440 --> 00:34:59.940 - It 989 00:35:00.440 --> 00:35:02.760 - seems like the first person fans can be 990 00:35:02.760 --> 00:35:03.579 - really militant. 991 00:35:05.320 --> 00:35:07.000 - I've I've seen people saying, like, oh, I'll 992 00:35:07.000 --> 00:35:08.519 - I'll DNF a book if it's if it's 993 00:35:08.519 --> 00:35:10.359 - a third person. It's like, I I don't 994 00:35:10.359 --> 00:35:11.099 - know. Yeah. 995 00:35:12.864 --> 00:35:14.385 - That's fair enough. But as you say, if 996 00:35:14.385 --> 00:35:15.684 - you're judging for a competition, 997 00:35:16.065 --> 00:35:17.664 - yeah, we don't have the right to do 998 00:35:17.664 --> 00:35:20.545 - that. Yeah. We don't. We don't. Exactly. Alright. 999 00:35:20.545 --> 00:35:21.445 - So to summarize, 1000 00:35:21.825 --> 00:35:24.965 - we both think that, writing competitions are worthwhile 1001 00:35:25.344 --> 00:35:25.800 - Mhmm. 1002 00:35:26.199 --> 00:35:27.420 - In terms of entering, 1003 00:35:28.039 --> 00:35:29.179 - in terms of judging. 1004 00:35:31.079 --> 00:35:32.059 - We both recommend 1005 00:35:33.800 --> 00:35:35.579 - polishing your novels 1006 00:35:35.880 --> 00:35:36.380 - beginning 1007 00:35:37.320 --> 00:35:38.300 - before entering. 1008 00:35:38.765 --> 00:35:39.265 - Yeah. 1009 00:35:39.644 --> 00:35:41.565 - One of us Until you're until you're sick 1010 00:35:41.565 --> 00:35:43.505 - of that not the beginning of that novel. 1011 00:35:43.565 --> 00:35:44.945 - Yes. A 100%. 1012 00:35:45.405 --> 00:35:47.184 - One of us recommends, 1013 00:35:49.164 --> 00:35:49.644 - having, 1014 00:35:50.125 --> 00:35:52.045 - judges in a short story contest being their 1015 00:35:52.045 --> 00:35:52.829 - beta readers. 1016 00:35:55.469 --> 00:35:57.230 - Maybe I need to backfiddle a bit on 1017 00:35:57.230 --> 00:35:57.730 - that, 1018 00:35:59.869 --> 00:36:01.250 - when you put it like that. 1019 00:36:01.630 --> 00:36:03.730 - Well, that was that was me being obnoxious 1020 00:36:03.869 --> 00:36:05.250 - for sure. But, 1021 00:36:06.764 --> 00:36:09.025 - We both think that you can get valuable 1022 00:36:10.605 --> 00:36:12.304 - feedback. It's a valuable experience. 1023 00:36:13.244 --> 00:36:15.565 - It can be really rewarding if you advance 1024 00:36:15.565 --> 00:36:16.065 - even 1025 00:36:17.885 --> 00:36:19.744 - advancing one round can be 1026 00:36:20.170 --> 00:36:22.250 - like, yeah. You know, it can be really 1027 00:36:22.250 --> 00:36:22.750 - uplifting. 1028 00:36:25.289 --> 00:36:27.130 - 100%. Yeah. I don't have anything to add 1029 00:36:27.130 --> 00:36:28.829 - to that. I think you've nailed it. Yeah. 1030 00:36:29.210 --> 00:36:30.510 - Alright. Well, then, 1031 00:36:30.969 --> 00:36:33.369 - I think that means that, that's our show. 1032 00:36:33.369 --> 00:36:35.070 - Make sure you follow and subscribe 1033 00:36:35.474 --> 00:36:38.375 - to us wherever you're hearing or watching us. 1034 00:36:39.155 --> 00:36:39.655 - And, 1035 00:36:40.275 --> 00:36:40.775 - yeah. 1036 00:36:41.235 --> 00:36:44.114 - And whatever whatever else you do, keep on 1037 00:36:44.114 --> 00:36:44.614 - writing. 1038 00:36:44.914 --> 00:36:47.414 - Alright. That's the most important thing. Yeah. 1039 00:36:48.835 --> 00:36:49.230 - Bye,