WEBVTT 1 00:00:06.799 --> 00:00:09.839 - Welcome to Working Writers episode one. I'm Pete 2 00:00:09.839 --> 00:00:10.339 - Alden. 3 00:00:10.719 --> 00:00:13.039 - And I'm Brian Chaffin. Make sure to check 4 00:00:13.039 --> 00:00:15.974 - us out on our website at workingwriters.io. 5 00:00:16.695 --> 00:00:18.695 - And you could also contact us on that 6 00:00:18.695 --> 00:00:21.114 - website, workingwriters.io. 7 00:00:21.175 --> 00:00:23.515 - Yes. Do that. Be a peach and absolutely 8 00:00:23.574 --> 00:00:24.234 - do that. 9 00:00:25.255 --> 00:00:27.095 - Definitely. So a little bit about us very 10 00:00:27.095 --> 00:00:29.274 - quickly before we launch into our first topic. 11 00:00:29.710 --> 00:00:31.809 - I'm a science fiction and fantasy writer, 12 00:00:32.509 --> 00:00:34.590 - almost 20 novels out, quite a few short 13 00:00:34.590 --> 00:00:35.090 - stories. 14 00:00:35.629 --> 00:00:38.129 - But I've also written nonfiction in the parenting 15 00:00:38.189 --> 00:00:39.789 - space way way back in the day when 16 00:00:39.789 --> 00:00:41.729 - I was a father of, young children. 17 00:00:43.695 --> 00:00:46.015 - Right. And are you're still a father of 18 00:00:46.015 --> 00:00:46.575 - of children? 19 00:00:46.975 --> 00:00:48.575 - I'm still a father of children, but they're, 20 00:00:48.734 --> 00:00:51.774 - they're adults now. Right. Right. Fair enough. No 21 00:00:51.774 --> 00:00:54.195 - no need to, write parenting articles anymore. 22 00:00:54.670 --> 00:00:55.170 - Fair 23 00:00:56.030 --> 00:00:56.689 - enough. Well, 24 00:00:56.990 --> 00:01:00.109 - so my debut novel, Accidental Intelligence, is available 25 00:01:00.109 --> 00:01:01.329 - wide as is NeoSynthesis, 26 00:01:02.030 --> 00:01:03.710 - a sci fi anthology where I have two 27 00:01:03.710 --> 00:01:06.510 - stories. I've also contributed to, cowritten, and written 28 00:01:06.510 --> 00:01:08.270 - several for Dummies titles, and I was the 29 00:01:08.270 --> 00:01:10.155 - editor in chief of the Mac Observer for 30 00:01:10.155 --> 00:01:11.055 - twenty three years. 31 00:01:11.435 --> 00:01:12.734 - So that's why 32 00:01:13.194 --> 00:01:14.954 - we are here to talk to you about 33 00:01:14.954 --> 00:01:15.454 - writing. 34 00:01:15.915 --> 00:01:17.834 - That's it. And we're both working writers. This 35 00:01:17.834 --> 00:01:19.454 - this is what we do as our job, 36 00:01:20.314 --> 00:01:22.474 - including the business side of things. So, Brian, 37 00:01:22.474 --> 00:01:24.629 - what I thought we'd, kick off with today 38 00:01:24.629 --> 00:01:26.090 - is just talking about newsletters, 39 00:01:26.390 --> 00:01:28.709 - which sounds like a thoroughly exciting topic, but 40 00:01:28.709 --> 00:01:30.170 - it is a vital topic. 41 00:01:31.109 --> 00:01:32.790 - The first question, I guess, I don't like 42 00:01:32.790 --> 00:01:34.709 - to throw to both of us is why 43 00:01:34.709 --> 00:01:36.489 - is it important? Why are we 44 00:01:36.875 --> 00:01:40.075 - authors, writers of nonfiction or fiction? Doesn't really 45 00:01:40.075 --> 00:01:40.575 - matter. 46 00:01:40.954 --> 00:01:43.915 - Why are we advised to have a newsletter 47 00:01:43.915 --> 00:01:45.775 - and have a newsletter list of subscribers? 48 00:01:47.194 --> 00:01:49.454 - Well, so my take on that is 49 00:01:49.834 --> 00:01:50.334 - that 50 00:01:51.000 --> 00:01:53.319 - your newsletter is is is the one thing 51 00:01:53.319 --> 00:01:55.159 - that that you can control. You can control 52 00:01:55.159 --> 00:01:55.740 - your website. 53 00:01:56.280 --> 00:01:58.599 - You can control your your newsletter and your 54 00:01:58.599 --> 00:02:01.400 - your your mailing list that is generated by 55 00:02:01.400 --> 00:02:02.140 - the newsletter. 56 00:02:02.680 --> 00:02:03.180 - And 57 00:02:03.995 --> 00:02:06.495 - that's the one thing that that, 58 00:02:07.275 --> 00:02:09.375 - that you can do from from the standpoint 59 00:02:09.514 --> 00:02:10.014 - of 60 00:02:10.395 --> 00:02:13.935 - of marketing that doesn't depend on another people, 61 00:02:13.995 --> 00:02:16.495 - and it also doesn't cost you 62 00:02:17.150 --> 00:02:18.610 - necessarily a lot of money, 63 00:02:18.909 --> 00:02:20.689 - every time a newsletter goes out. 64 00:02:21.949 --> 00:02:23.250 - So it's it's 65 00:02:23.710 --> 00:02:24.449 - the the 66 00:02:25.310 --> 00:02:26.050 - the big takeaway 67 00:02:27.069 --> 00:02:29.409 - from that is that you control it. 68 00:02:31.284 --> 00:02:32.805 - It it would have been my first answer 69 00:02:32.805 --> 00:02:34.644 - too. I I think also I'd add on 70 00:02:34.644 --> 00:02:36.245 - to that that you get the opportunity to 71 00:02:36.245 --> 00:02:38.824 - build relationship, a deeper relationship with some 72 00:02:39.604 --> 00:02:40.745 - some of your readers. 73 00:02:41.604 --> 00:02:42.664 - Some of my, 74 00:02:43.125 --> 00:02:44.965 - I guess, you'd call street teams. So the 75 00:02:44.965 --> 00:02:46.584 - people who do early reviews, 76 00:02:47.740 --> 00:02:49.419 - probably about half of them are drawn from 77 00:02:49.419 --> 00:02:51.580 - social media followers and the other half are 78 00:02:51.580 --> 00:02:54.080 - drawn from newsletter subscribers who will then 79 00:02:54.539 --> 00:02:56.060 - reply to an email, have a have a 80 00:02:56.060 --> 00:02:57.740 - quick conversation with me, and you build a 81 00:02:57.740 --> 00:02:58.479 - little relationship 82 00:02:58.935 --> 00:03:00.955 - with them there. You can also value add, 83 00:03:01.574 --> 00:03:03.914 - I guess. You can add different content to, 84 00:03:04.294 --> 00:03:06.215 - you know, longer form content than you can 85 00:03:06.215 --> 00:03:07.675 - in a in a tweet 86 00:03:08.055 --> 00:03:10.134 - or something like that or an Instagram post. 87 00:03:10.134 --> 00:03:12.775 - Yep. Yeah. The the newsletters I appreciate the 88 00:03:12.775 --> 00:03:14.155 - most are those 89 00:03:15.870 --> 00:03:16.610 - that are 90 00:03:17.069 --> 00:03:20.050 - giving me something new, either be it insight, 91 00:03:20.830 --> 00:03:22.930 - be it a glimpse into the author's life, 92 00:03:23.870 --> 00:03:24.349 - be it, 93 00:03:27.150 --> 00:03:29.969 - you know, tips tips for for writing, 94 00:03:31.135 --> 00:03:32.355 - a glimpse into 95 00:03:32.895 --> 00:03:33.794 - their process. 96 00:03:35.455 --> 00:03:36.814 - Right? It's it's it's 97 00:03:38.495 --> 00:03:40.275 - I don't I don't 98 00:03:40.655 --> 00:03:43.715 - love newsletters that are simply promotion promotion 99 00:03:44.270 --> 00:03:45.870 - promotion. Here's my book. Here's my book. Here's 100 00:03:45.870 --> 00:03:46.750 - my book. Here's my book. Here's my book 101 00:03:46.750 --> 00:03:48.750 - again. Here's my book. Here's my book. Here's 102 00:03:48.750 --> 00:03:50.669 - my book again. I I don't I don't 103 00:03:50.669 --> 00:03:51.810 - like social media. 104 00:03:52.750 --> 00:03:54.370 - That is all 105 00:03:55.069 --> 00:03:55.810 - self promotion. 106 00:03:56.270 --> 00:03:58.030 - Don't like newsletters that are all self promotion. 107 00:03:58.030 --> 00:03:59.650 - I like newsletters that are 108 00:04:00.375 --> 00:04:03.174 - giving me something something new, something that I'm 109 00:04:03.174 --> 00:04:04.074 - interested in. 110 00:04:05.254 --> 00:04:07.495 - A 100%. And you could often see the 111 00:04:07.574 --> 00:04:09.034 - what I call the open rates 112 00:04:09.495 --> 00:04:11.655 - on emails depending on the service that you 113 00:04:11.655 --> 00:04:13.800 - use. So you can sort of tell, right, 114 00:04:13.800 --> 00:04:15.400 - that one kind of hit the mark because 115 00:04:15.400 --> 00:04:16.860 - it's, you know, 51%. 116 00:04:17.319 --> 00:04:19.000 - And you'll often think, oh, that's a terrible 117 00:04:19.000 --> 00:04:21.240 - open rate, but that's actually good. We we 118 00:04:21.240 --> 00:04:22.779 - might come back to that in a second. 119 00:04:23.720 --> 00:04:25.560 - I'm finding that the ones that get the 120 00:04:25.560 --> 00:04:27.399 - best open rates are exactly what you said. 121 00:04:27.399 --> 00:04:29.694 - They're not the, hey. I've got a Kickstarter. 122 00:04:30.154 --> 00:04:32.975 - I've got another Kickstarter. The Kickstarter's going well. 123 00:04:33.355 --> 00:04:35.834 - Those those get decent open rates because you've 124 00:04:35.834 --> 00:04:38.314 - got followers who are invested, but it's the 125 00:04:38.314 --> 00:04:40.495 - ones about, hey. I just moved house. 126 00:04:41.009 --> 00:04:41.509 - And, 127 00:04:42.050 --> 00:04:44.449 - god, I've got boxes of stuff everywhere, and 128 00:04:44.449 --> 00:04:45.889 - it's really tough to kinda get back into 129 00:04:45.889 --> 00:04:47.490 - a working groove, and people relate to that 130 00:04:47.490 --> 00:04:49.649 - stuff. But they're also, I guess, interested that 131 00:04:49.649 --> 00:04:51.250 - the person that they're reading is a human 132 00:04:51.250 --> 00:04:53.409 - being Yeah. And has some some color to 133 00:04:53.409 --> 00:04:55.745 - their life as well. Yeah. Yeah. That's that 134 00:04:55.745 --> 00:04:59.024 - that that's for sure. So John Scalzi was 135 00:04:59.024 --> 00:05:02.305 - was so I just recent relatively recently launched 136 00:05:02.305 --> 00:05:03.604 - my own newsletter. I think 137 00:05:04.064 --> 00:05:04.564 - episodes 138 00:05:05.185 --> 00:05:07.185 - issue 16 just came out, and I'm doing 139 00:05:07.185 --> 00:05:07.844 - it weekly. 140 00:05:09.199 --> 00:05:11.600 - Issue 17 is queued up for for next 141 00:05:11.600 --> 00:05:12.100 - Sunday. 142 00:05:12.560 --> 00:05:13.060 - And 143 00:05:13.600 --> 00:05:14.740 - as of this recording, 144 00:05:15.600 --> 00:05:16.339 - by the time 145 00:05:16.639 --> 00:05:19.040 - anyone hears this, this will probably be a 146 00:05:19.040 --> 00:05:21.564 - little bit anyway, the point is I've been 147 00:05:21.564 --> 00:05:22.365 - doing this for, 148 00:05:23.165 --> 00:05:24.464 - sixteen, seventeen weeks, 149 00:05:24.925 --> 00:05:25.425 - and 150 00:05:27.165 --> 00:05:29.884 - my model was definitely a John Scalzi lite 151 00:05:29.884 --> 00:05:30.384 - model. 152 00:05:31.645 --> 00:05:34.125 - Tell me more about that. Well, he What's 153 00:05:34.125 --> 00:05:37.250 - the John Scalzi model here? He he's always, 154 00:05:38.430 --> 00:05:40.669 - so first of all, he's John Scalzi. So 155 00:05:40.669 --> 00:05:43.329 - he can he can kind of post whatever 156 00:05:43.389 --> 00:05:45.229 - he wants to, and he will do some 157 00:05:45.229 --> 00:05:47.250 - political stuff sometimes. Mhmm. 158 00:05:47.629 --> 00:05:50.509 - He'll do social commentary sometimes. And he's often 159 00:05:50.954 --> 00:05:51.694 - he does 160 00:05:53.754 --> 00:05:53.954 - a, 161 00:05:54.634 --> 00:05:55.274 - this is, 162 00:05:55.595 --> 00:05:57.595 - the the the the the the the view 163 00:05:57.595 --> 00:05:59.115 - from the hotel room that he's at. He'll 164 00:05:59.115 --> 00:05:59.854 - do that. 165 00:06:00.474 --> 00:06:02.495 - Gotcha. Yep. You know, that's 166 00:06:04.300 --> 00:06:06.060 - like a little glimpse into his life. He'll 167 00:06:06.060 --> 00:06:07.519 - also do stuff 168 00:06:08.060 --> 00:06:09.919 - from his expansive yard. 169 00:06:11.339 --> 00:06:13.199 - But then then he has, 170 00:06:13.979 --> 00:06:16.539 - guest authors come on and and and do 171 00:06:16.539 --> 00:06:19.365 - an extended essay about their, about their own 172 00:06:19.365 --> 00:06:19.865 - writing, 173 00:06:20.645 --> 00:06:22.584 - which I probably won't be doing. 174 00:06:22.884 --> 00:06:23.384 - And 175 00:06:24.404 --> 00:06:25.384 - he will do, 176 00:06:27.845 --> 00:06:28.985 - essays about 177 00:06:30.120 --> 00:06:32.520 - his writing process. And then sometimes he'll just, 178 00:06:32.520 --> 00:06:34.920 - like, catch you up on the the latest 179 00:06:34.920 --> 00:06:37.080 - news from an industry standpoint on his on 180 00:06:37.080 --> 00:06:37.740 - his writing. 181 00:06:39.720 --> 00:06:41.560 - So it's it's quite a mix. Yeah. Yeah. 182 00:06:41.560 --> 00:06:43.660 - It's quite a mix. One of the reasons, 183 00:06:44.214 --> 00:06:46.055 - there's kinda two reasons why I actually thought 184 00:06:46.055 --> 00:06:47.514 - this would be a good topic 185 00:06:47.894 --> 00:06:49.654 - to to do from the from kickoff is 186 00:06:49.654 --> 00:06:51.495 - that, you know, I've started reading your newsletters, 187 00:06:51.495 --> 00:06:53.014 - and they're very, very well done. I'm I'm 188 00:06:53.014 --> 00:06:55.975 - I'm very impressed. Oh, thanks. I struggle to 189 00:06:56.789 --> 00:06:58.729 - so I kind of do one maybe every 190 00:06:59.750 --> 00:07:00.889 - one to two months. 191 00:07:01.430 --> 00:07:02.949 - So for people who are, you know, who 192 00:07:02.949 --> 00:07:03.930 - are setting up 193 00:07:04.470 --> 00:07:06.389 - a a news you know, a newsletter listed, 194 00:07:06.389 --> 00:07:06.889 - etcetera, 195 00:07:07.269 --> 00:07:09.349 - normally, the the best advice, and I it's 196 00:07:09.349 --> 00:07:10.709 - been good for me the three or four 197 00:07:10.709 --> 00:07:12.954 - times I've started the whole process again from 198 00:07:12.954 --> 00:07:14.394 - scratch is to set up a bit of 199 00:07:14.394 --> 00:07:15.055 - an automation. 200 00:07:15.754 --> 00:07:16.254 - So 201 00:07:16.795 --> 00:07:18.894 - you've you've got the email written. 202 00:07:19.435 --> 00:07:20.334 - When a person, 203 00:07:20.795 --> 00:07:22.875 - signs on, they get, you know, the first 204 00:07:22.875 --> 00:07:24.475 - one at seven days after, the next one 205 00:07:24.475 --> 00:07:27.029 - at thirteen days after, whatever frequency you want. 206 00:07:27.110 --> 00:07:28.550 - And then after a while, they can kind 207 00:07:28.550 --> 00:07:30.490 - of for me, anyway, that peters out. 208 00:07:30.949 --> 00:07:31.430 - And 209 00:07:31.910 --> 00:07:33.829 - but they're they're starting to get more kind 210 00:07:33.829 --> 00:07:35.829 - of fresh, just off the cuff ones, which 211 00:07:35.829 --> 00:07:37.829 - are more topical or about things that are 212 00:07:37.829 --> 00:07:39.509 - happening in my life or about a sale 213 00:07:39.509 --> 00:07:41.355 - coming up or, you you know, yada yada 214 00:07:41.355 --> 00:07:42.975 - yada, a new story, a new book release, 215 00:07:43.595 --> 00:07:45.514 - some new content because sometimes it's nice to 216 00:07:45.514 --> 00:07:46.495 - kinda give people 217 00:07:46.795 --> 00:07:47.295 - something, 218 00:07:47.915 --> 00:07:49.835 - for free, but as a reward for kinda 219 00:07:49.835 --> 00:07:51.995 - hanging around and following you and and reading 220 00:07:51.995 --> 00:07:52.735 - your stuff. 221 00:07:53.514 --> 00:07:54.335 - I've been 222 00:07:55.339 --> 00:07:55.839 - rejigging 223 00:07:56.220 --> 00:07:56.720 - my 224 00:07:57.099 --> 00:07:59.180 - newsletter at the moment, which I might come 225 00:07:59.180 --> 00:08:00.560 - back to in a second, but 226 00:08:01.180 --> 00:08:03.419 - reminds me just to it's tough to kinda 227 00:08:03.419 --> 00:08:04.699 - get you if you're not a not a 228 00:08:04.699 --> 00:08:07.099 - techie and I'm not and Brian is, it's 229 00:08:07.099 --> 00:08:09.419 - tough to get your head around this thing 230 00:08:09.419 --> 00:08:11.754 - that you did two years ago, and you 231 00:08:11.754 --> 00:08:14.634 - did it again three years before that. You 232 00:08:14.634 --> 00:08:15.915 - don't do it all the time, so you've 233 00:08:15.915 --> 00:08:18.254 - forgotten all the the the mechanical stuff. 234 00:08:18.794 --> 00:08:20.714 - So, yeah, I coming back to what I 235 00:08:20.714 --> 00:08:22.235 - was saying, I I think your newsletters are 236 00:08:22.235 --> 00:08:23.294 - very, very well constructed. 237 00:08:23.595 --> 00:08:25.115 - So these are the these are in the 238 00:08:25.115 --> 00:08:26.870 - tech space, aren't they, Brian? 239 00:08:27.410 --> 00:08:29.189 - These are not fiction related yet. 240 00:08:31.170 --> 00:08:33.330 - So I've I I do run two two 241 00:08:33.330 --> 00:08:36.769 - newsletters currently. There's one for my tech podcast, 242 00:08:36.769 --> 00:08:37.910 - The Context Machine. 243 00:08:38.945 --> 00:08:40.404 - And the the 244 00:08:41.585 --> 00:08:43.125 - the second one is, 245 00:08:44.465 --> 00:08:47.184 - the periphery drafts, which is for for me 246 00:08:47.184 --> 00:08:48.945 - personally as a writer. So that's that's all 247 00:08:48.945 --> 00:08:51.605 - writing related. It's all writing and personal related. 248 00:08:52.070 --> 00:08:54.230 - So proofread drafts is for Geek Tales. That's 249 00:08:54.230 --> 00:08:55.769 - that's my website as you know. 250 00:08:56.230 --> 00:08:56.730 - And, 251 00:08:58.149 --> 00:09:00.470 - the the Inside the Machine is strictly is 252 00:09:00.470 --> 00:09:01.690 - strictly podcast related. 253 00:09:02.389 --> 00:09:03.990 - Yeah. So I've signed up for Inside the 254 00:09:03.990 --> 00:09:05.190 - Machine. I need to sign up for the 255 00:09:05.190 --> 00:09:07.274 - other one as well. Oh. Details one. 256 00:09:08.235 --> 00:09:10.894 - Oh, I thought you had signed up for 257 00:09:11.035 --> 00:09:11.535 - both. 258 00:09:12.154 --> 00:09:12.815 - I will. 259 00:09:13.115 --> 00:09:15.035 - I will. But it's been interesting for me 260 00:09:15.035 --> 00:09:17.274 - because, again, I'm getting content from outside of 261 00:09:17.274 --> 00:09:17.934 - my normal 262 00:09:18.475 --> 00:09:18.975 - reading. 263 00:09:19.355 --> 00:09:21.134 - No. You you're signed up, brother. 264 00:09:21.820 --> 00:09:23.019 - You're you're signed up for per per per 265 00:09:23.019 --> 00:09:24.240 - per per per per per per per per 266 00:09:24.240 --> 00:09:25.544 - per per per per per per per per 267 00:09:25.544 --> 00:09:26.848 - per per per per per per per per 268 00:09:26.848 --> 00:09:28.000 - per per per per per 269 00:09:29.539 --> 00:09:30.019 - per per per per per per per per 270 00:09:30.019 --> 00:09:30.500 - per per per per per per per per 271 00:09:30.500 --> 00:09:30.980 - per per per per per per per per 272 00:09:30.980 --> 00:09:31.460 - per per per per per per per per 273 00:09:31.460 --> 00:09:32.105 - per per per per per per per per 274 00:09:32.105 --> 00:09:33.120 - per per per per per per per per 275 00:09:35.345 --> 00:09:36.884 - I do think it is 276 00:09:39.024 --> 00:09:39.845 - I get 277 00:09:40.464 --> 00:09:40.964 - the 278 00:09:43.184 --> 00:09:46.245 - inclination to write every couple of months. 279 00:09:46.625 --> 00:09:47.125 - Mhmm. 280 00:09:47.664 --> 00:09:48.404 - In particular, 281 00:09:50.190 --> 00:09:51.710 - because it can be it can be hard 282 00:09:51.710 --> 00:09:52.990 - to come up with things to write about, 283 00:09:52.990 --> 00:09:54.910 - and I I do have some ideas for 284 00:09:54.910 --> 00:09:56.769 - that. Cool. But 285 00:09:57.790 --> 00:09:59.330 - I I think it's important 286 00:09:59.870 --> 00:10:02.509 - to to do a weekly newsletter if you're 287 00:10:02.509 --> 00:10:03.490 - if you're an author. 288 00:10:04.830 --> 00:10:05.330 - Mhmm. 289 00:10:06.055 --> 00:10:07.514 - And to do Why weekly? 290 00:10:08.695 --> 00:10:09.274 - Well, because, 291 00:10:12.134 --> 00:10:14.774 - you don't wanna do it more than once 292 00:10:14.774 --> 00:10:15.355 - a week 293 00:10:16.774 --> 00:10:19.014 - by any stretch of the imagination. Although John 294 00:10:19.014 --> 00:10:21.035 - Scalzi does that, but again, he's John Scalzi. 295 00:10:21.495 --> 00:10:22.910 - So So he he kinda gets to do 296 00:10:22.910 --> 00:10:24.350 - what he wants. Yep. 297 00:10:24.830 --> 00:10:26.429 - But, and so so does, 298 00:10:28.029 --> 00:10:28.750 - so does Chuck, 299 00:10:29.389 --> 00:10:31.230 - I have who's the guy that wrote Fight 300 00:10:31.230 --> 00:10:31.730 - Club? 301 00:10:32.910 --> 00:10:35.309 - Oh. Oh, yeah. He starts with p, doesn't 302 00:10:35.309 --> 00:10:36.674 - it? Yeah. I can never remember how to 303 00:10:36.674 --> 00:10:38.674 - pronounce his last name, and I'm I'm gonna 304 00:10:38.674 --> 00:10:40.694 - choke on it now. So Chuck p, 305 00:10:41.634 --> 00:10:43.095 - he does he does 306 00:10:43.714 --> 00:10:45.414 - not quite once a week. 307 00:10:45.794 --> 00:10:48.214 - He he definitely does a, whenever 308 00:10:49.040 --> 00:10:51.519 - whenever something strikes his fancy kind of, kind 309 00:10:51.519 --> 00:10:52.899 - of anyway, the point is 310 00:10:53.360 --> 00:10:53.860 - that 311 00:10:54.720 --> 00:10:55.379 - I feel, 312 00:10:55.840 --> 00:10:58.179 - that weekly is important from the standpoint 313 00:11:00.879 --> 00:11:03.940 - of giving people something consistent to read. 314 00:11:04.514 --> 00:11:05.014 - Mhmm. 315 00:11:05.475 --> 00:11:08.434 - And when it's, when it when it's, like, 316 00:11:08.434 --> 00:11:09.894 - once every two or three months, 317 00:11:10.835 --> 00:11:13.154 - the vast majority of your readers are gonna 318 00:11:13.154 --> 00:11:14.455 - be like, oh, yeah. 319 00:11:14.915 --> 00:11:16.055 - Yeah. That guy. 320 00:11:16.675 --> 00:11:17.175 - Yeah. 321 00:11:17.549 --> 00:11:19.570 - Right? And if it's once a week, 322 00:11:19.950 --> 00:11:21.090 - and it's too much, 323 00:11:22.190 --> 00:11:23.169 - people will unsubscribe. 324 00:11:24.110 --> 00:11:25.409 - And that's fine. 325 00:11:27.789 --> 00:11:31.889 - That's totally fine. If any anytime someone unsubscribes, 326 00:11:34.605 --> 00:11:36.784 - They are doing your work for them. 327 00:11:37.164 --> 00:11:39.004 - I'm not saying you want to make people 328 00:11:39.004 --> 00:11:41.184 - unsubscribe, but do not be afraid 329 00:11:41.644 --> 00:11:43.825 - to for people to unsubscribe. 330 00:11:44.779 --> 00:11:47.419 - Right. Because people unsubscribing improves your, 331 00:11:47.820 --> 00:11:50.620 - your open rates, which improves your your spam 332 00:11:50.620 --> 00:11:52.779 - score or whatever that is. I can never 333 00:11:52.779 --> 00:11:54.860 - remember what it's called. But it but it 334 00:11:54.860 --> 00:11:57.759 - makes you look better to services like Gmail 335 00:11:57.825 --> 00:11:59.665 - and Apple. Right? So Right. So it won't 336 00:11:59.665 --> 00:12:01.524 - just get shunted into the spam folder. 337 00:12:02.625 --> 00:12:04.625 - People will actually see them, see your emails 338 00:12:04.625 --> 00:12:05.764 - come in. Yeah. Yep. 339 00:12:06.144 --> 00:12:08.465 - So should we get into my ideas for 340 00:12:08.465 --> 00:12:10.785 - coming up with topics? Well, absolutely. Because as 341 00:12:10.785 --> 00:12:12.325 - soon as you say weekly, 342 00:12:13.350 --> 00:12:15.429 - the the introvert in me panics. And I'm 343 00:12:15.429 --> 00:12:16.950 - sure there's people watching this who are the 344 00:12:16.950 --> 00:12:18.790 - same who are thinking, what would I exactly 345 00:12:18.790 --> 00:12:20.410 - what you said. What would I say? 346 00:12:20.790 --> 00:12:22.149 - And they'd be like me. They'd be the 347 00:12:22.149 --> 00:12:23.750 - kind of people who at a party are 348 00:12:23.750 --> 00:12:25.850 - much happy to listen to other people 349 00:12:26.485 --> 00:12:29.125 - than, you know, we're we're not raconteurs. We 350 00:12:29.125 --> 00:12:31.845 - don't just constantly pull opinions out of the 351 00:12:31.845 --> 00:12:33.524 - back of our head and I do. Come 352 00:12:33.524 --> 00:12:35.764 - out this. Yeah. Right. So you're the man 353 00:12:35.764 --> 00:12:37.845 - to ask about this. So give us, oh, 354 00:12:37.845 --> 00:12:41.209 - wise man, give us those ideas because, seriously, 355 00:12:41.209 --> 00:12:43.389 - I'm hungry for that. Well, firstly, 356 00:12:43.769 --> 00:12:46.509 - first of all, I cheated by, you know, 357 00:12:46.649 --> 00:12:48.329 - twenty three years as the editor in chief 358 00:12:48.329 --> 00:12:49.309 - of the Mac Observer 359 00:12:49.690 --> 00:12:50.669 - where I wrote 360 00:12:51.245 --> 00:12:53.664 - opinions constantly and opinions, 361 00:12:55.565 --> 00:12:58.684 - columns, and analysis pieces in particular. I always 362 00:12:58.684 --> 00:13:00.205 - I always said in particular, I was I 363 00:13:00.205 --> 00:13:03.184 - was a terrible journalist. I'm an excellent analyst. 364 00:13:04.409 --> 00:13:08.089 - Okay. And and that that remains true. I'm 365 00:13:08.250 --> 00:13:09.629 - anyway, the point is 366 00:13:11.769 --> 00:13:12.269 - that 367 00:13:13.370 --> 00:13:15.309 - I I have all this experience 368 00:13:15.929 --> 00:13:16.589 - in regularly 369 00:13:16.970 --> 00:13:20.075 - crafting opinion pieces, and that's cheating when it 370 00:13:20.075 --> 00:13:22.575 - comes to to to a newsletter for sure. 371 00:13:22.714 --> 00:13:23.934 - K. But that said, 372 00:13:24.315 --> 00:13:25.695 - if you give yourself 373 00:13:26.794 --> 00:13:28.735 - four or five or, you know, 374 00:13:29.434 --> 00:13:30.654 - three, four, five, 375 00:13:31.500 --> 00:13:33.440 - maybe six or seven different 376 00:13:35.259 --> 00:13:38.879 - topics that you want your newsletter to encompass, 377 00:13:40.300 --> 00:13:41.899 - you'll be able to pull from each of 378 00:13:41.899 --> 00:13:44.460 - those when you need them. So for instance, 379 00:13:44.460 --> 00:13:45.200 - for me, 380 00:13:45.899 --> 00:13:47.794 - I've got my writing. 381 00:13:48.254 --> 00:13:48.995 - I've got 382 00:13:49.455 --> 00:13:52.034 - writing, theory, craft in general. 383 00:13:52.735 --> 00:13:54.034 - I've got industry. 384 00:13:55.215 --> 00:13:56.274 - I've got, 385 00:13:57.054 --> 00:13:57.554 - my 386 00:13:58.095 --> 00:13:59.634 - my my personal life. 387 00:14:00.179 --> 00:14:02.820 - And then for my, so I tend I 388 00:14:02.820 --> 00:14:04.820 - tend to I I do two or three 389 00:14:04.820 --> 00:14:05.960 - entries per 390 00:14:06.580 --> 00:14:08.899 - newsletter, and the third one is usually going 391 00:14:08.899 --> 00:14:09.940 - to be a, 392 00:14:12.259 --> 00:14:13.399 - something something 393 00:14:16.514 --> 00:14:19.154 - off off it's something personal that's that's that's 394 00:14:19.154 --> 00:14:21.154 - on a different tangent. So, like, I'll I'll 395 00:14:21.154 --> 00:14:22.034 - frequently post, 396 00:14:23.394 --> 00:14:25.414 - albums that I like to to write to. 397 00:14:26.529 --> 00:14:28.929 - Right? So I I will I you know? 398 00:14:28.929 --> 00:14:31.509 - And that's obviously a very wide, 399 00:14:32.049 --> 00:14:33.750 - deep well that I can draw from. 400 00:14:34.210 --> 00:14:37.730 - And and, I'll do, favorite movies. I'll do, 401 00:14:37.889 --> 00:14:39.570 - favorite books. I'll do books that I'm reading. 402 00:14:39.570 --> 00:14:41.914 - And that that that that's usually the the 403 00:14:41.914 --> 00:14:43.735 - sort of thing that I'm that I'm filling 404 00:14:43.735 --> 00:14:44.634 - up that third, 405 00:14:45.254 --> 00:14:47.414 - entry in. And and that's almost always the 406 00:14:47.414 --> 00:14:49.754 - first one that I that I get sorted. 407 00:14:50.534 --> 00:14:51.034 - And, 408 00:14:52.294 --> 00:14:53.754 - for the first two, 409 00:14:54.200 --> 00:14:55.339 - I'm gonna be drawing, 410 00:14:56.120 --> 00:14:59.320 - from those wells, writing, writing in industry writing, 411 00:14:59.320 --> 00:15:00.940 - writing craft, and, 412 00:15:01.639 --> 00:15:02.379 - in my personal 413 00:15:04.120 --> 00:15:04.860 - life, and 414 00:15:05.480 --> 00:15:07.259 - and and and also writing process. 415 00:15:07.639 --> 00:15:09.659 - And so I'll just I'll just 416 00:15:10.304 --> 00:15:12.865 - pull topics from those five categories as I 417 00:15:12.865 --> 00:15:13.524 - need them. 418 00:15:14.384 --> 00:15:15.985 - And if I'm gonna write if if one 419 00:15:15.985 --> 00:15:17.585 - of them ends up being long, I'll do 420 00:15:17.585 --> 00:15:18.325 - a two entry 421 00:15:19.345 --> 00:15:21.904 - newsletter. So so split it over two two 422 00:15:21.904 --> 00:15:24.245 - weeks or two entries. Yeah. Yeah. 423 00:15:24.940 --> 00:15:26.540 - I think that's really good advice. So you 424 00:15:26.620 --> 00:15:27.980 - you've kind of got a fishing pool to 425 00:15:27.980 --> 00:15:29.980 - go looking into. So if one's not working 426 00:15:29.980 --> 00:15:31.440 - for you in terms of inspiration, 427 00:15:32.779 --> 00:15:34.620 - you've got the other six or whatever to 428 00:15:34.620 --> 00:15:36.220 - to have a look at. One of the 429 00:15:36.220 --> 00:15:38.700 - early so I'm on my third version of 430 00:15:38.700 --> 00:15:41.115 - a of a fiction writer's newsletter. You know, 431 00:15:41.115 --> 00:15:42.715 - I've had one that was with Mailchimp. I 432 00:15:42.715 --> 00:15:44.394 - changed it again with MailerLite, and then I 433 00:15:44.394 --> 00:15:46.394 - changed it up again, a couple of years 434 00:15:46.394 --> 00:15:48.794 - ago. And I'm just I'm just rejigging. I'm 435 00:15:48.794 --> 00:15:51.355 - just tweaking it at the moment. In that 436 00:15:51.355 --> 00:15:53.035 - original one, one of the things I did 437 00:15:53.035 --> 00:15:53.434 - was a, 438 00:15:54.110 --> 00:15:55.230 - because I thought this is a bit of 439 00:15:55.230 --> 00:15:57.149 - fun and I can sustain this myself. I 440 00:15:57.149 --> 00:15:59.009 - was doing this 12 word reviews. 441 00:15:59.470 --> 00:16:01.889 - So every email, I would do a game, 442 00:16:02.670 --> 00:16:05.070 - a a movie, and a and a book. 443 00:16:05.070 --> 00:16:06.769 - Movie or TV and a book. I love 444 00:16:06.769 --> 00:16:07.870 - that. I love that. And I had to 445 00:16:07.870 --> 00:16:09.230 - I had to get the review into 12 446 00:16:09.230 --> 00:16:11.764 - words. It's kind of fun, but because one 447 00:16:11.764 --> 00:16:12.345 - of the 448 00:16:12.884 --> 00:16:13.384 - things 449 00:16:14.004 --> 00:16:15.304 - with with email 450 00:16:15.845 --> 00:16:17.605 - emailing readers is that you you can see 451 00:16:17.605 --> 00:16:19.465 - who's opened it and who's clicked on links. 452 00:16:19.684 --> 00:16:21.205 - Maybe we we might come back and talk 453 00:16:21.205 --> 00:16:22.345 - about some of that visibility 454 00:16:22.804 --> 00:16:23.945 - in a second, but 455 00:16:24.279 --> 00:16:26.139 - you very rarely get a reply 456 00:16:26.919 --> 00:16:28.759 - from people. And the ones who have replied, 457 00:16:28.759 --> 00:16:30.039 - you know, I've I've been able to have 458 00:16:30.039 --> 00:16:31.820 - conversations with them. It's been really lovely. 459 00:16:32.279 --> 00:16:34.200 - So you often you're kinda shouting into that 460 00:16:34.200 --> 00:16:35.960 - void not knowing if it's hitting the mark. 461 00:16:35.960 --> 00:16:38.465 - So, eventually, I kinda let that slip because 462 00:16:38.465 --> 00:16:40.085 - it did become a bit of a chore. 463 00:16:40.305 --> 00:16:41.745 - Maybe the problem was that I was trying 464 00:16:41.745 --> 00:16:42.884 - to do it every single 465 00:16:43.665 --> 00:16:45.045 - time I I run a newsletter. 466 00:16:45.745 --> 00:16:48.144 - But maybe you can do if you're gonna 467 00:16:48.144 --> 00:16:50.065 - do a weekly newsletter, which I hope that 468 00:16:50.065 --> 00:16:52.245 - you will, maybe you could do 469 00:16:52.759 --> 00:16:56.200 - that 12 word review thing once every four 470 00:16:56.200 --> 00:16:57.419 - times, once a month. 471 00:16:57.720 --> 00:17:00.059 - Right. Or, you know, and and, 472 00:17:00.600 --> 00:17:03.639 - and and choose choose something else. So, again, 473 00:17:03.639 --> 00:17:05.900 - I I I definitely think of my newsletters 474 00:17:06.200 --> 00:17:08.414 - as my my newsletter entries 475 00:17:08.875 --> 00:17:09.615 - as slots. 476 00:17:10.875 --> 00:17:13.515 - Right? That that's that's that's that's that's that's 477 00:17:13.515 --> 00:17:15.275 - the thinking that goes into my head. And 478 00:17:15.275 --> 00:17:16.815 - that third slot is 479 00:17:17.434 --> 00:17:19.595 - is the is the fun mention. It's, you 480 00:17:19.595 --> 00:17:22.019 - know, hey. You might like this. Hey. This 481 00:17:22.019 --> 00:17:23.240 - is why I listen to 482 00:17:23.539 --> 00:17:25.160 - this. Hey. This is why I 483 00:17:25.460 --> 00:17:26.279 - like this movie. 484 00:17:26.820 --> 00:17:28.100 - Hey. This is what I'm reading, and it 485 00:17:28.180 --> 00:17:29.240 - and it's really cool. 486 00:17:32.420 --> 00:17:34.420 - And and and and and and that's that's 487 00:17:34.420 --> 00:17:36.835 - my third slot. And, again, it's it's it's 488 00:17:36.835 --> 00:17:38.355 - always it's always the first slot that fills 489 00:17:38.355 --> 00:17:38.855 - up. 490 00:17:40.034 --> 00:17:40.534 - Okay. 491 00:17:41.234 --> 00:17:42.434 - Break it up a little bit like that. 492 00:17:42.434 --> 00:17:44.034 - I like that idea of slots. That's that's 493 00:17:44.034 --> 00:17:44.774 - really cool. 494 00:17:45.554 --> 00:17:47.554 - Alright. Any other content that you think of? 495 00:17:47.554 --> 00:17:48.054 - So 496 00:17:48.860 --> 00:17:51.279 - because I my mind always goes to the 497 00:17:51.340 --> 00:17:52.000 - the fiction 498 00:17:52.299 --> 00:17:54.140 - writers who who are watching this because I'm 499 00:17:54.140 --> 00:17:55.279 - a fiction writer, but 500 00:17:55.740 --> 00:17:57.680 - we possibly also got people who are nonfiction 501 00:17:57.820 --> 00:17:59.660 - writers who are writing articles and books in 502 00:17:59.660 --> 00:18:00.400 - that space. 503 00:18:01.420 --> 00:18:03.340 - Any other ideas for them in terms of 504 00:18:03.340 --> 00:18:03.840 - content? 505 00:18:04.154 --> 00:18:08.248 - Particularly if you're having a regular weekly output. 506 00:18:08.775 --> 00:18:12.869 - I I I think I have to go 507 00:18:12.882 --> 00:18:14.409 - to the abstract. 508 00:18:14.936 --> 00:18:19.029 - I I hadn't I hadn't thought about this 509 00:18:19.043 --> 00:18:20.056 - this question. 510 00:18:21.829 --> 00:18:22.329 - But 511 00:18:23.829 --> 00:18:24.329 - find 512 00:18:25.029 --> 00:18:25.849 - the scope 513 00:18:26.230 --> 00:18:27.609 - that interests you 514 00:18:28.309 --> 00:18:29.210 - and keep 515 00:18:29.909 --> 00:18:32.789 - keep trying until you find a scope that 516 00:18:32.789 --> 00:18:33.769 - interests you. 517 00:18:35.054 --> 00:18:36.994 - And and and don't 518 00:18:37.774 --> 00:18:40.335 - I mean, so, like, I I feel like 519 00:18:40.335 --> 00:18:42.095 - one thing that the the way too many 520 00:18:42.095 --> 00:18:45.054 - people do is is they write worried about 521 00:18:45.054 --> 00:18:46.974 - what their audience is going to think about 522 00:18:46.974 --> 00:18:47.474 - something. 523 00:18:48.349 --> 00:18:50.430 - And and that's that's in terms of of 524 00:18:50.430 --> 00:18:50.930 - books, 525 00:18:52.509 --> 00:18:52.830 - columns, 526 00:18:54.430 --> 00:18:54.930 - newsletter 527 00:18:55.549 --> 00:18:56.049 - entries, 528 00:18:56.589 --> 00:18:57.410 - blog posts. 529 00:18:58.029 --> 00:19:00.289 - You know, the the they they write 530 00:19:02.244 --> 00:19:03.305 - thinking about 531 00:19:04.005 --> 00:19:05.865 - their their reader. And 532 00:19:07.285 --> 00:19:10.005 - I I say trust your reader. Let your 533 00:19:10.005 --> 00:19:11.785 - reader take care of herself. 534 00:19:12.884 --> 00:19:14.505 - Let your reader decide 535 00:19:16.000 --> 00:19:18.099 - to to like you and to read you 536 00:19:18.400 --> 00:19:19.700 - and to keep coming back. 537 00:19:20.480 --> 00:19:22.819 - And if someone doesn't, that's fine. 538 00:19:24.319 --> 00:19:25.619 - Right? And so, 539 00:19:26.559 --> 00:19:28.079 - I so I guess I I guess I'm 540 00:19:28.079 --> 00:19:29.440 - actually gonna shift. I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm 541 00:19:29.440 --> 00:19:31.095 - gonna shift the angle of what I'm saying. 542 00:19:33.015 --> 00:19:33.515 - Absolutely 543 00:19:34.214 --> 00:19:36.634 - write things that you're interested in. 544 00:19:38.294 --> 00:19:38.794 - And 545 00:19:40.214 --> 00:19:41.835 - if people don't like it, 546 00:19:42.934 --> 00:19:44.775 - I I just I know I've said this 547 00:19:44.775 --> 00:19:46.875 - several times, but that's fine. 548 00:19:47.789 --> 00:19:48.690 - Yeah. Yep. 549 00:19:49.710 --> 00:19:51.250 - Yep. That's very liberating. 550 00:19:52.190 --> 00:19:53.250 - Yeah. It it 551 00:19:53.630 --> 00:19:56.289 - I I hope so, and it should be. 552 00:19:56.349 --> 00:19:59.089 - And and that's that's a, 553 00:19:59.975 --> 00:20:01.414 - I mean and this this is true for 554 00:20:01.414 --> 00:20:03.255 - our books too. You should write your book 555 00:20:03.255 --> 00:20:04.875 - that you want to read. 556 00:20:06.134 --> 00:20:09.095 - Right? I I I don't I don't I 557 00:20:09.095 --> 00:20:10.555 - I get why people 558 00:20:10.934 --> 00:20:13.195 - will try to write to market and, 559 00:20:13.869 --> 00:20:16.990 - you know, nonsense advice like that, and that's 560 00:20:16.990 --> 00:20:18.509 - that's fine. If you wanna do that, go 561 00:20:18.509 --> 00:20:19.490 - do that. That's fine. 562 00:20:20.029 --> 00:20:22.669 - But in my opinion, you write what you 563 00:20:22.669 --> 00:20:23.490 - wanna read, 564 00:20:24.109 --> 00:20:26.289 - and let your readers take care of themselves. 565 00:20:26.875 --> 00:20:28.734 - Yeah. If you if you wanna love it 566 00:20:28.954 --> 00:20:30.255 - and you want sustainability, 567 00:20:31.355 --> 00:20:33.994 - I a 100% agree with you. Yeah. So 568 00:20:33.994 --> 00:20:35.994 - once again, that's not something I never replied 569 00:20:35.994 --> 00:20:38.654 - to something like newsletter writing or social media 570 00:20:38.714 --> 00:20:40.714 - even, which is another space. We won't get 571 00:20:40.714 --> 00:20:42.839 - into that now, but it's similar. It's related 572 00:20:42.839 --> 00:20:43.579 - that it's 573 00:20:43.880 --> 00:20:45.400 - kinda tough to come up with, you know, 574 00:20:45.400 --> 00:20:46.519 - what do I say? What do I do? 575 00:20:46.519 --> 00:20:48.119 - What do I put here? Yeah. How do 576 00:20:48.119 --> 00:20:49.640 - I do this every day in terms of 577 00:20:49.640 --> 00:20:51.079 - social media or at least three or four 578 00:20:51.079 --> 00:20:52.059 - times a week? 579 00:20:52.599 --> 00:20:54.920 - Yeah. That that that So loving loving what 580 00:20:54.920 --> 00:20:56.859 - you're doing is very important, I think. 581 00:20:58.065 --> 00:20:59.125 - In terms of 582 00:20:59.825 --> 00:21:01.184 - if we shift the focus a little bit 583 00:21:01.184 --> 00:21:02.785 - to, you know, it's great if we've got 584 00:21:02.785 --> 00:21:04.625 - content. It's great if we're putting the emails 585 00:21:04.625 --> 00:21:06.464 - out there. How do we get more people 586 00:21:06.464 --> 00:21:08.565 - onto our subscriber lists to, 587 00:21:09.265 --> 00:21:10.980 - to read them? You know? So there so 588 00:21:10.980 --> 00:21:13.059 - we're actually building that that audience that we 589 00:21:13.059 --> 00:21:15.080 - own, as you said at the beginning. Mhmm. 590 00:21:15.140 --> 00:21:17.140 - And one of the, you know, one of 591 00:21:17.140 --> 00:21:18.740 - the bits of advice around them one of 592 00:21:18.740 --> 00:21:20.440 - the ways of doing that is to have 593 00:21:20.660 --> 00:21:22.519 - what some people call a reader magnet, 594 00:21:23.460 --> 00:21:25.240 - or just a free a free offer. 595 00:21:26.474 --> 00:21:27.934 - So in terms of fiction, 596 00:21:29.355 --> 00:21:31.755 - you know, it's it's usually a short story. 597 00:21:31.755 --> 00:21:33.275 - It might be something that's related to a 598 00:21:33.275 --> 00:21:35.194 - novel that people have read so that when 599 00:21:35.194 --> 00:21:36.335 - they read that novel, 600 00:21:36.634 --> 00:21:38.954 - there is a page at the beginning, sometimes 601 00:21:38.954 --> 00:21:40.555 - the beginning at the end, and the end 602 00:21:40.555 --> 00:21:42.929 - that says, hey, if you're enjoying this, jump 603 00:21:42.929 --> 00:21:44.690 - on my newsletter. You'll actually get a short 604 00:21:44.690 --> 00:21:46.710 - story about, you know, Freddie's, 605 00:21:47.650 --> 00:21:49.730 - backstory, you know, or how Freddie became such 606 00:21:49.730 --> 00:21:50.789 - an amazing assassin 607 00:21:51.089 --> 00:21:53.009 - or whatever it is. And that gives them 608 00:21:53.009 --> 00:21:54.210 - a reason to do that. Or it just 609 00:21:54.210 --> 00:21:56.289 - could be, you know, a short book, which 610 00:21:56.289 --> 00:21:58.605 - I've done before. That one actually wasn't as 611 00:21:58.605 --> 00:22:00.845 - popular as short stories for me. So I've 612 00:22:00.845 --> 00:22:03.164 - been changing reader magnets constantly. I see. And 613 00:22:03.164 --> 00:22:04.445 - one of the re yeah. One of the 614 00:22:04.445 --> 00:22:05.424 - reasons I'm rejigging 615 00:22:06.285 --> 00:22:06.785 - the 616 00:22:07.565 --> 00:22:08.144 - the whole 617 00:22:08.445 --> 00:22:10.684 - automation at the moment was because I'm making 618 00:22:10.684 --> 00:22:12.750 - the shift in terms of my writing from 619 00:22:12.750 --> 00:22:14.590 - sci fi to fantasy. So I'm changing genres 620 00:22:14.590 --> 00:22:16.990 - or adding a genre, not changing, adding a 621 00:22:16.990 --> 00:22:19.250 - genre. And I wanted to appeal more to, 622 00:22:19.789 --> 00:22:22.450 - fantasy readers because a lot of my content, 623 00:22:22.590 --> 00:22:24.269 - particularly the free content that I was giving 624 00:22:24.269 --> 00:22:25.694 - people, was all space opera. 625 00:22:26.414 --> 00:22:29.474 - So put put together a little little ebook 626 00:22:30.014 --> 00:22:32.095 - with two long short stories that are related 627 00:22:32.095 --> 00:22:34.095 - to my fantasy stories. They're all in the 628 00:22:34.095 --> 00:22:34.755 - one world, 629 00:22:35.615 --> 00:22:37.875 - but then added in a longer 630 00:22:38.255 --> 00:22:40.355 - story from the sci fi universe 631 00:22:40.769 --> 00:22:42.369 - so that you've kind of got both of 632 00:22:42.369 --> 00:22:44.690 - those to attract people in, and they get 633 00:22:44.690 --> 00:22:46.690 - some value out of that. So that whole 634 00:22:46.690 --> 00:22:48.369 - idea of reader magnets is a very, very 635 00:22:48.369 --> 00:22:50.769 - useful one because you're getting you're hopefully attracting 636 00:22:50.769 --> 00:22:51.670 - people who 637 00:22:52.289 --> 00:22:53.890 - who like your jam. They like the way 638 00:22:53.890 --> 00:22:56.164 - you do things. They'll be open to getting 639 00:22:56.164 --> 00:22:57.625 - more books from you in the future. 640 00:22:58.005 --> 00:22:59.924 - When there's a new release, they'll be interested 641 00:22:59.924 --> 00:23:01.285 - in that. And you've got that that way 642 00:23:01.285 --> 00:23:04.005 - of contact them, contacted them directly and getting 643 00:23:04.005 --> 00:23:05.144 - that in front of them. 644 00:23:06.005 --> 00:23:08.484 - The question does arise though. Do people just 645 00:23:08.484 --> 00:23:09.545 - come onto your 646 00:23:10.319 --> 00:23:12.880 - your list? Your do they just subscribe just 647 00:23:12.880 --> 00:23:14.880 - to get a free book? And then they're 648 00:23:14.880 --> 00:23:15.380 - just, 649 00:23:16.319 --> 00:23:17.839 - yeah. I hate to wait use the word 650 00:23:17.839 --> 00:23:19.919 - dead weight, but they're kind of clogging up 651 00:23:19.919 --> 00:23:22.240 - the list because your open rates drop. You 652 00:23:22.240 --> 00:23:24.659 - know, you look start looking more like spam, 653 00:23:25.015 --> 00:23:26.454 - etcetera, etcetera. But do you think that's a 654 00:23:26.454 --> 00:23:27.595 - that's a real problem? 655 00:23:28.934 --> 00:23:29.654 - Yeah. It 656 00:23:31.095 --> 00:23:33.755 - it's it's not a problem. It's a fact. 657 00:23:34.454 --> 00:23:37.734 - Yeah. Okay. Right? And I personally I regularly 658 00:23:37.734 --> 00:23:38.794 - prune my list. 659 00:23:39.380 --> 00:23:41.779 - If if someone's not opening my newsletter, I 660 00:23:41.779 --> 00:23:44.019 - I boot them from it. Yep. And I 661 00:23:44.019 --> 00:23:45.480 - I save us both a hassle. 662 00:23:46.100 --> 00:23:46.600 - And 663 00:23:49.140 --> 00:23:51.059 - there are freebie hunters out there. There are 664 00:23:51.059 --> 00:23:53.140 - people who basically I don't know. It seems 665 00:23:53.140 --> 00:23:55.924 - like they sort of obsess about getting 666 00:23:56.224 --> 00:23:58.224 - all this free stuff whether or not they 667 00:23:58.224 --> 00:23:59.204 - ever read it. 668 00:24:00.065 --> 00:24:01.984 - I don't, you know, like, kinda feel like 669 00:24:02.144 --> 00:24:04.884 - Who knows? They're probably not reading it. But, 670 00:24:05.105 --> 00:24:06.865 - again, that's fine. I'm gonna let them take 671 00:24:06.865 --> 00:24:08.784 - care of themselves, and I'm I'm gonna remove 672 00:24:08.784 --> 00:24:10.319 - them from my list if if they don't 673 00:24:10.480 --> 00:24:11.619 - open future things. 674 00:24:12.079 --> 00:24:12.980 - And if someone 675 00:24:13.359 --> 00:24:15.519 - comes and gets my free thing and that's 676 00:24:15.519 --> 00:24:17.539 - all they want, that's fine. 677 00:24:19.440 --> 00:24:21.119 - That's fine. I don't I I don't even 678 00:24:21.119 --> 00:24:22.335 - care if they read it. It's 679 00:24:22.815 --> 00:24:24.575 - it's No. I figured that I figured that 680 00:24:24.575 --> 00:24:26.575 - they see your name on their Kindle or 681 00:24:26.575 --> 00:24:28.494 - their their iPad, whatever they're reading, or their 682 00:24:28.494 --> 00:24:29.394 - Kobo device. 683 00:24:29.855 --> 00:24:32.015 - They'll see it from time to time, and 684 00:24:32.015 --> 00:24:34.174 - at least they know who you are. Yeah. 685 00:24:34.174 --> 00:24:35.375 - And you're not yeah. So you're not just 686 00:24:35.375 --> 00:24:36.595 - this invisible anonymous 687 00:24:37.349 --> 00:24:39.509 - force out there. You're you're actually a person 688 00:24:39.509 --> 00:24:41.210 - with a book and a series of books. 689 00:24:41.349 --> 00:24:41.849 - Right. 690 00:24:43.269 --> 00:24:43.990 - So the, 691 00:24:44.869 --> 00:24:47.670 - it it okay. There there are several things 692 00:24:47.670 --> 00:24:49.049 - that we've broached here. 693 00:24:49.670 --> 00:24:50.650 - One is, 694 00:24:53.815 --> 00:24:55.914 - the the the how you get new subscribers. 695 00:24:57.654 --> 00:24:59.515 - That's obviously an important, 696 00:24:59.894 --> 00:25:01.115 - issue. So 697 00:25:01.414 --> 00:25:03.174 - you want to have a link in the 698 00:25:03.174 --> 00:25:05.595 - back of every book that you put out 699 00:25:06.730 --> 00:25:08.109 - with the URL. And, 700 00:25:10.169 --> 00:25:12.909 - one piece of advice that I came across 701 00:25:13.849 --> 00:25:15.630 - is to have 702 00:25:17.690 --> 00:25:18.349 - a URL 703 00:25:19.049 --> 00:25:20.589 - that you only promote 704 00:25:21.285 --> 00:25:22.505 - via the back of the book. 705 00:25:23.845 --> 00:25:25.684 - So that you know so that you know 706 00:25:25.684 --> 00:25:28.505 - the people that are coming in from reading 707 00:25:28.725 --> 00:25:29.705 - your book. 708 00:25:30.085 --> 00:25:34.105 - Gotcha. So like I use geektell/newsletter 709 00:25:34.679 --> 00:25:36.279 - is the URL that I've got in the 710 00:25:36.279 --> 00:25:37.179 - back of my book. 711 00:25:38.679 --> 00:25:39.500 - And for 712 00:25:40.200 --> 00:25:43.319 - everyone else, I I have a signup form 713 00:25:43.319 --> 00:25:44.379 - on my home page 714 00:25:45.000 --> 00:25:46.940 - with a with a with an anchor. 715 00:25:47.494 --> 00:25:48.955 - So it's just, you know, details 716 00:25:49.335 --> 00:25:49.835 - slash 717 00:25:51.414 --> 00:25:51.914 - pound 718 00:25:52.535 --> 00:25:54.615 - whatever. It it it it does it doesn't 719 00:25:54.695 --> 00:25:55.195 - it 720 00:25:55.575 --> 00:25:58.375 - literally doesn't matter what that URL is for 721 00:25:58.375 --> 00:25:59.755 - the purposes of this conversation. 722 00:26:00.140 --> 00:26:01.580 - So that's the one that I that I 723 00:26:01.580 --> 00:26:04.080 - that I promote in, social media 724 00:26:04.539 --> 00:26:05.039 - and, 725 00:26:05.420 --> 00:26:06.860 - and elsewhere. And in the back of my 726 00:26:06.860 --> 00:26:08.720 - book, I've got slash newsletter period. 727 00:26:09.420 --> 00:26:09.920 - So 728 00:26:10.220 --> 00:26:12.404 - Mhmm. Whether or not that was great advice, 729 00:26:12.404 --> 00:26:13.924 - I don't know, but that's the that's the 730 00:26:13.924 --> 00:26:15.625 - that's the advice I'm following. 731 00:26:17.684 --> 00:26:19.445 - It's not bad. It wouldn't be that hard 732 00:26:19.445 --> 00:26:21.285 - to set up. So I host the files 733 00:26:21.285 --> 00:26:23.625 - for the free the free book on, 734 00:26:24.325 --> 00:26:25.144 - story origin 735 00:26:25.539 --> 00:26:27.859 - story origin. And I would just set up 736 00:26:27.859 --> 00:26:30.019 - a separate reader magnet for that, and that 737 00:26:30.019 --> 00:26:32.119 - gives me automatically gives me a 738 00:26:32.420 --> 00:26:33.700 - a URL. So I don't even have to 739 00:26:33.700 --> 00:26:35.779 - set up tracking. I can then go in 740 00:26:35.779 --> 00:26:37.299 - every month or two and just look at, 741 00:26:37.299 --> 00:26:39.555 - you know, who has actually downloaded the book 742 00:26:40.275 --> 00:26:42.195 - on each so the reader magnet for people 743 00:26:42.195 --> 00:26:43.875 - who've come through the website, the reader magnet 744 00:26:43.875 --> 00:26:45.575 - for people who've come through the book, 745 00:26:46.195 --> 00:26:48.674 - just compare them. You can see dates. You 746 00:26:48.674 --> 00:26:50.195 - can see an email address. That's all you 747 00:26:50.195 --> 00:26:50.855 - can see. 748 00:26:51.555 --> 00:26:53.394 - But, yeah, that would actually be a really 749 00:26:53.394 --> 00:26:55.589 - interesting way to to track some figures. One 750 00:26:55.589 --> 00:26:57.109 - of the and I'm side tracking again. Sorry. 751 00:26:57.109 --> 00:26:58.890 - We'll we'll come back to all the different 752 00:26:59.509 --> 00:27:02.069 - topics and subtopics I've opened up already, but, 753 00:27:02.710 --> 00:27:04.069 - and I've forgotten what I was gonna say, 754 00:27:04.069 --> 00:27:05.990 - so that's not going anywhere. Oh, just the 755 00:27:05.990 --> 00:27:07.450 - the fact of silence. Like, 756 00:27:08.015 --> 00:27:09.774 - quite often, we don't have the data to 757 00:27:09.774 --> 00:27:11.954 - work with. So we you know, you think, 758 00:27:12.734 --> 00:27:14.015 - I'm not sure how that's working, or I'm 759 00:27:14.015 --> 00:27:15.454 - not sure why it's not working, or I'm 760 00:27:15.454 --> 00:27:17.134 - not sure why it is working because I 761 00:27:17.134 --> 00:27:18.595 - just don't have any feedback. 762 00:27:19.134 --> 00:27:20.815 - That would be a way of of getting 763 00:27:20.815 --> 00:27:22.174 - around some of that and having a little 764 00:27:22.174 --> 00:27:23.430 - bit more data to work with. 765 00:27:24.549 --> 00:27:26.170 - Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I, 766 00:27:28.470 --> 00:27:30.330 - so I've actually had my, 767 00:27:31.110 --> 00:27:32.410 - newsletter sign up 768 00:27:32.869 --> 00:27:35.029 - for for for years, but I've never promoted 769 00:27:35.029 --> 00:27:35.769 - it until 770 00:27:36.214 --> 00:27:38.055 - I got serious about doing it, which I 771 00:27:38.055 --> 00:27:41.595 - started seventeen weeks ago now. Right? Mhmm. So, 772 00:27:42.214 --> 00:27:43.815 - yeah, there there's that. But, 773 00:27:45.974 --> 00:27:47.595 - I I don't know where I was going. 774 00:27:49.029 --> 00:27:51.930 - I did want to hit on the various 775 00:27:52.069 --> 00:27:52.569 - sort 776 00:27:53.829 --> 00:27:54.730 - of freebie 777 00:27:55.349 --> 00:27:57.049 - swaps that you can pay for. 778 00:27:57.910 --> 00:28:00.789 - Mhmm. Yep. You know, where where you're saying 779 00:28:00.789 --> 00:28:02.630 - get this get this free thing and sign 780 00:28:02.630 --> 00:28:03.369 - up for newsletter. 781 00:28:03.765 --> 00:28:04.265 - Those 782 00:28:04.724 --> 00:28:06.664 - absolutely attract freebie hunters. 783 00:28:07.365 --> 00:28:07.865 - Mhmm. 784 00:28:08.404 --> 00:28:09.224 - But, again, 785 00:28:09.525 --> 00:28:12.505 - if you're if you're aggressively pruning your list 786 00:28:13.285 --> 00:28:14.424 - by your open rates, 787 00:28:16.580 --> 00:28:18.580 - that's fine. I I don't know that I'm 788 00:28:18.580 --> 00:28:20.359 - ever actually gonna bother doing that. 789 00:28:21.220 --> 00:28:22.740 - Yeah. So I've done those those a few 790 00:28:22.740 --> 00:28:25.140 - times. Sometimes people call them group promotions. So 791 00:28:25.140 --> 00:28:26.900 - you'll have a bunch of different authors come 792 00:28:26.900 --> 00:28:29.475 - in. Yeah. Do a big and and everyone 793 00:28:29.475 --> 00:28:31.154 - cross promotes it on their own social media 794 00:28:31.154 --> 00:28:32.134 - in their own newsletters 795 00:28:33.154 --> 00:28:34.595 - and maybe in a couple of other place. 796 00:28:34.595 --> 00:28:37.154 - Maybe you maybe you'll pay for for Instagram 797 00:28:37.154 --> 00:28:39.394 - ads or Facebook ads or whatever. And but 798 00:28:39.394 --> 00:28:40.994 - you've got, you know, one big graphic with 799 00:28:40.994 --> 00:28:41.494 - everybody's, 800 00:28:43.250 --> 00:28:44.690 - book covers on there, then a link to 801 00:28:44.690 --> 00:28:46.390 - a page that's been set up for it. 802 00:28:46.690 --> 00:28:48.369 - And then people go through if they like 803 00:28:48.369 --> 00:28:49.750 - that and they want that freebie, 804 00:28:50.049 --> 00:28:51.730 - they'll go through to a sign up page. 805 00:28:51.730 --> 00:28:52.230 - So 806 00:28:52.609 --> 00:28:54.289 - they've kinda gotta get through the sign up 807 00:28:54.289 --> 00:28:56.450 - to someone's newsletter to get the freebie. They 808 00:28:56.450 --> 00:28:57.430 - can always unsubscribe, 809 00:28:58.115 --> 00:28:59.795 - but that's the way they do it. I 810 00:28:59.795 --> 00:29:02.035 - found the same thing that I'll I'll I'll 811 00:29:02.035 --> 00:29:02.934 - get a few 812 00:29:03.394 --> 00:29:05.815 - people sign up through those things, and, 813 00:29:06.674 --> 00:29:08.994 - yeah, the the open rates drop pretty quickly. 814 00:29:08.994 --> 00:29:10.595 - And sometimes they they are very quick to 815 00:29:10.595 --> 00:29:12.750 - unsubscribe within a a week or two. 816 00:29:13.309 --> 00:29:15.069 - Yeah. I've heard I'm fine and I'm fine 817 00:29:15.069 --> 00:29:16.430 - with it, but it's a lot of work 818 00:29:16.430 --> 00:29:18.829 - for for that. Yeah. I've heard authors saying 819 00:29:18.829 --> 00:29:20.670 - that, you know, they get a lot of 820 00:29:20.670 --> 00:29:21.170 - unsubscribes 821 00:29:21.630 --> 00:29:23.789 - immediately. Yeah. Like, they get they get freebie 822 00:29:23.789 --> 00:29:25.869 - and then they they unsubscribe. And again Which 823 00:29:25.869 --> 00:29:28.674 - again, I'm happy about. That that's that's fine. 824 00:29:28.674 --> 00:29:30.674 - I'm not complaining about those folks. I don't 825 00:29:30.674 --> 00:29:32.534 - know that I want to bother chasing them. 826 00:29:33.234 --> 00:29:34.375 - Oh, no. No. 827 00:29:35.474 --> 00:29:38.355 - No. Because the yeah. Exactly. And and it 828 00:29:38.355 --> 00:29:39.794 - really is a matter of where you put 829 00:29:39.794 --> 00:29:41.880 - your effort and your time. And I I'm 830 00:29:41.880 --> 00:29:43.180 - not sure that those 831 00:29:43.799 --> 00:29:45.720 - those kind of group emotions around a free 832 00:29:45.720 --> 00:29:46.220 - giveaway 833 00:29:46.759 --> 00:29:49.740 - are are worth that. Maybe in some genres, 834 00:29:50.119 --> 00:29:52.220 - I I get the feeling in genres like 835 00:29:52.279 --> 00:29:54.460 - romantacy and, in particular. 836 00:29:56.065 --> 00:29:58.545 - Very, very helpful. Friends, I've had people in 837 00:29:58.545 --> 00:30:00.865 - coaching groups. I've had writers coaching groups I've 838 00:30:00.865 --> 00:30:02.644 - known who, who write nonfiction. 839 00:30:03.424 --> 00:30:05.265 - Find them tough unless they've got a pretty 840 00:30:05.265 --> 00:30:07.125 - robust kind of follow-up offer. 841 00:30:07.505 --> 00:30:08.164 - You know? 842 00:30:08.500 --> 00:30:09.859 - Now now we would just wanna give you 843 00:30:09.859 --> 00:30:11.059 - a little bit more of a kind of 844 00:30:11.059 --> 00:30:12.659 - kind of not real you in that sense, 845 00:30:12.659 --> 00:30:15.319 - very cynical, but they're kind of bringing people 846 00:30:15.539 --> 00:30:17.380 - closer and closer into the orbit of the 847 00:30:17.380 --> 00:30:19.140 - of the offerings and the services and the 848 00:30:19.140 --> 00:30:20.744 - advice that they wanna give them. 849 00:30:21.625 --> 00:30:23.625 - If they're very, very good at that, or 850 00:30:23.625 --> 00:30:25.144 - if they've had very good advice on that, 851 00:30:25.144 --> 00:30:27.224 - then that seems to be better for them. 852 00:30:27.224 --> 00:30:29.384 - But just throwing a freebie out there and 853 00:30:29.384 --> 00:30:31.384 - thinking, great. I'm gonna get a reader for 854 00:30:31.384 --> 00:30:31.884 - life. 855 00:30:33.119 --> 00:30:33.619 - No. 856 00:30:34.079 --> 00:30:36.720 - Well, so that to to your point, that 857 00:30:36.720 --> 00:30:38.740 - may be the case for romantisee and romance. 858 00:30:39.519 --> 00:30:42.240 - You know, romantisee and romance readers tend to 859 00:30:42.240 --> 00:30:43.140 - be voracious 860 00:30:43.920 --> 00:30:44.420 - readers. 861 00:30:45.039 --> 00:30:46.579 - And if they if they like 862 00:30:47.359 --> 00:30:48.099 - this story, 863 00:30:49.205 --> 00:30:49.945 - if this 864 00:30:51.525 --> 00:30:53.684 - story got them going, they'll probably come back 865 00:30:53.684 --> 00:30:54.345 - for more. 866 00:30:54.884 --> 00:30:57.684 - I don't know that that's is anywhere near 867 00:30:57.684 --> 00:30:58.424 - as true 868 00:30:58.884 --> 00:31:00.025 - for other 869 00:31:00.565 --> 00:31:01.384 - other genres. 870 00:31:02.220 --> 00:31:03.740 - I I don't I don't know that it 871 00:31:03.740 --> 00:31:05.900 - is. I don't know that it's not, but 872 00:31:05.900 --> 00:31:07.980 - I don't know that it is. Anecdotally, I 873 00:31:07.980 --> 00:31:09.660 - suspect not. And it I think part of 874 00:31:09.660 --> 00:31:12.299 - that is because romance authors are very, very 875 00:31:12.299 --> 00:31:13.599 - good at writing fast. 876 00:31:14.255 --> 00:31:15.775 - They'll just release a book a month, a 877 00:31:15.775 --> 00:31:17.295 - book a month, a book a month, two 878 00:31:17.295 --> 00:31:18.735 - books that month, a book a month, a 879 00:31:18.735 --> 00:31:19.795 - book a month. And 880 00:31:20.335 --> 00:31:22.735 - for people writing in other genres, that's pretty 881 00:31:22.735 --> 00:31:23.795 - tough to do 882 00:31:24.095 --> 00:31:27.055 - with, you know, without using AI, which hopefully 883 00:31:27.055 --> 00:31:27.955 - we're not doing. 884 00:31:28.299 --> 00:31:28.799 - Yep. 885 00:31:29.339 --> 00:31:31.500 - But traditionally, you know, Ram Ramess was a 886 00:31:31.500 --> 00:31:33.019 - very good so they're so they're offering new, 887 00:31:33.019 --> 00:31:34.460 - new, new all the time to to those 888 00:31:34.460 --> 00:31:34.960 - voracious 889 00:31:35.259 --> 00:31:35.759 - readers. 890 00:31:36.299 --> 00:31:36.799 - Yeah. 891 00:31:38.140 --> 00:31:40.140 - Right. In terms of in terms of, you 892 00:31:40.140 --> 00:31:43.015 - know, pruning that list, my my practice has 893 00:31:43.015 --> 00:31:45.174 - become twice a year. I will send out 894 00:31:45.174 --> 00:31:47.355 - a so I'll come so on the 895 00:31:47.815 --> 00:31:49.575 - the services that provide your, 896 00:31:50.134 --> 00:31:50.955 - your email 897 00:31:51.575 --> 00:31:52.075 - hosting, 898 00:31:52.855 --> 00:31:55.195 - you'll get the opportunity to create groups, 899 00:31:55.589 --> 00:31:56.410 - sort of subgroups 900 00:31:56.789 --> 00:31:58.169 - from your list of subscribers. 901 00:31:58.630 --> 00:31:59.690 - So I will 902 00:31:59.990 --> 00:32:01.109 - compile a list of, 903 00:32:01.669 --> 00:32:03.609 - and I'll usually call it second chance. 904 00:32:04.309 --> 00:32:06.549 - And I'll just shoot them a an email 905 00:32:06.549 --> 00:32:08.309 - that says, hey. I've noticed that you haven't 906 00:32:08.309 --> 00:32:10.404 - opened any of my emails for a while. 907 00:32:10.404 --> 00:32:12.565 - And then something like, you know, sorry if 908 00:32:12.565 --> 00:32:14.085 - I'm boring you. You know, something kind of 909 00:32:14.085 --> 00:32:16.085 - tongue in cheek and lighthearted. If it's not 910 00:32:16.085 --> 00:32:18.744 - working for you anymore, no problem. You know? 911 00:32:19.125 --> 00:32:22.005 - I don't wanna be just clogging up your 912 00:32:22.005 --> 00:32:24.279 - inbox with stuff. If you wanna stay on 913 00:32:24.279 --> 00:32:26.440 - my list, reply to this email, and I'll 914 00:32:26.440 --> 00:32:28.359 - keep you on my list. If you don't 915 00:32:28.359 --> 00:32:30.200 - reply, I'll understand that you want me to 916 00:32:30.200 --> 00:32:31.880 - unsubscribe you, and I'll save you the trouble 917 00:32:31.880 --> 00:32:33.400 - of of doing that, and I'll do it 918 00:32:33.400 --> 00:32:34.700 - for you. Now 919 00:32:35.044 --> 00:32:36.404 - it won't take me as long to say 920 00:32:36.404 --> 00:32:37.224 - all of that. 921 00:32:38.085 --> 00:32:40.164 - I've only ever had and I've done that 922 00:32:40.164 --> 00:32:42.644 - for three years. That's six rounds of that 923 00:32:42.644 --> 00:32:43.125 - now, 924 00:32:43.525 --> 00:32:45.525 - or five rounds, I think. I've only ever 925 00:32:45.525 --> 00:32:46.825 - had one person reply. 926 00:32:47.809 --> 00:32:49.569 - So it was interesting. And that just showed 927 00:32:49.569 --> 00:32:51.890 - me that either either they weren't opening that 928 00:32:51.890 --> 00:32:52.369 - email 929 00:32:52.769 --> 00:32:54.529 - Right. Or they did, and they were like, 930 00:32:54.529 --> 00:32:56.950 - nah. Nah. So either way, 931 00:32:57.410 --> 00:32:59.569 - yeah, they've kind of given me implicit permission 932 00:32:59.569 --> 00:33:01.730 - to unsubscribe them. Yeah. I I don't I 933 00:33:01.730 --> 00:33:02.789 - don't need that permission. 934 00:33:03.464 --> 00:33:05.325 - I'll boot you. I'll I'll 935 00:33:06.585 --> 00:33:07.244 - I I, 936 00:33:07.664 --> 00:33:08.284 - I mean, 937 00:33:08.825 --> 00:33:10.444 - just from the standpoint of 938 00:33:12.585 --> 00:33:15.224 - someone getting a newsletter that that's going straight 939 00:33:15.224 --> 00:33:16.984 - to spam, and they never notice it and 940 00:33:16.984 --> 00:33:18.444 - they don't care. I mean, that's 941 00:33:19.809 --> 00:33:20.309 - why 942 00:33:21.009 --> 00:33:22.069 - why waste our time? 943 00:33:22.450 --> 00:33:23.190 - And especially 944 00:33:23.490 --> 00:33:25.349 - especially if you have enough subscribers 945 00:33:26.450 --> 00:33:27.349 - that you're paying. 946 00:33:28.130 --> 00:33:29.589 - Oh, for sure. Yes. 947 00:33:30.755 --> 00:33:32.355 - You may as well keep that list as 948 00:33:32.355 --> 00:33:34.674 - as clean as they say as possible. My 949 00:33:34.674 --> 00:33:36.535 - question there is how 950 00:33:37.154 --> 00:33:38.115 - these days with 951 00:33:39.715 --> 00:33:41.654 - what I read is that Apple and 952 00:33:41.955 --> 00:33:43.015 - guys like Google 953 00:33:43.440 --> 00:33:44.720 - hide a lot of the data from us. 954 00:33:44.720 --> 00:33:46.720 - So they'll actually they won't show you when 955 00:33:46.720 --> 00:33:47.619 - someone opens, 956 00:33:48.480 --> 00:33:50.799 - a newsletter or an email, I should say, 957 00:33:50.799 --> 00:33:51.539 - not a newsletter. 958 00:33:52.240 --> 00:33:53.919 - And I don't know how accurate that is, 959 00:33:53.919 --> 00:33:56.159 - whether whether we're kinda work once again, working 960 00:33:56.159 --> 00:33:57.380 - off data that's incomplete 961 00:33:57.815 --> 00:33:58.634 - or incorrect. 962 00:33:59.174 --> 00:33:59.994 - Because if 963 00:34:00.454 --> 00:34:02.315 - if people are getting opening their 964 00:34:02.855 --> 00:34:05.494 - their Gmail email on a Google on a 965 00:34:05.494 --> 00:34:08.054 - Apple device Mhmm. Maybe we're not seeing that 966 00:34:08.054 --> 00:34:09.655 - open, and maybe they are reading our stuff 967 00:34:09.655 --> 00:34:11.400 - and they get get booted. Is is that 968 00:34:11.400 --> 00:34:13.480 - a real fear? Do you think I'm sort 969 00:34:13.480 --> 00:34:15.559 - of valid valid and feeling that way, worrying 970 00:34:15.559 --> 00:34:16.380 - about that? 971 00:34:16.679 --> 00:34:17.179 - Well, 972 00:34:18.119 --> 00:34:18.619 - I 973 00:34:19.719 --> 00:34:20.219 - would 974 00:34:21.639 --> 00:34:23.960 - I'm I'm looking at my subscriber list right 975 00:34:23.960 --> 00:34:26.485 - now, and I'm seeing lots of iCloud 976 00:34:27.184 --> 00:34:27.684 - domains, 977 00:34:28.625 --> 00:34:31.105 - some dot. So, you know, clear clearly, I'm 978 00:34:31.105 --> 00:34:32.644 - gonna probably have a disproportionate 979 00:34:32.945 --> 00:34:35.585 - number of Mac users and iPhone users in 980 00:34:35.585 --> 00:34:37.664 - my Okay. In my and people who are 981 00:34:37.664 --> 00:34:39.199 - interested in what I have to say based 982 00:34:39.199 --> 00:34:40.960 - in part on my my past at the 983 00:34:40.960 --> 00:34:41.699 - Mac Observer. 984 00:34:42.159 --> 00:34:42.659 - Mhmm. 985 00:34:43.519 --> 00:34:46.480 - But I've got some mac.com addresses. I've got 986 00:34:46.480 --> 00:34:46.980 - some 987 00:34:48.400 --> 00:34:50.980 - iCloud addresses, and I've got lots 988 00:34:52.559 --> 00:34:54.019 - of lots of open data. 989 00:34:55.105 --> 00:34:55.605 - Okay. 990 00:34:56.305 --> 00:34:58.545 - Okay. So that though those articles I was 991 00:34:58.545 --> 00:35:00.704 - reading about oh, no. Apple's changing the way 992 00:35:00.704 --> 00:35:01.204 - it 993 00:35:01.744 --> 00:35:03.525 - you know, Apple information. 994 00:35:03.985 --> 00:35:04.805 - Apple may. 995 00:35:05.664 --> 00:35:08.244 - That that that I mean, Apple tends to 996 00:35:08.909 --> 00:35:11.489 - protect privacy more than everyone else 997 00:35:12.670 --> 00:35:13.170 - combined 998 00:35:13.710 --> 00:35:14.849 - and then some. 999 00:35:15.549 --> 00:35:17.309 - And in this case, it would be privacy 1000 00:35:17.309 --> 00:35:18.210 - for the recipient. 1001 00:35:19.150 --> 00:35:21.150 - It's it's the person who's getting the email 1002 00:35:21.150 --> 00:35:22.049 - in their inbox. 1003 00:35:22.655 --> 00:35:24.675 - It I I can see Apple 1004 00:35:25.454 --> 00:35:27.234 - getting to a point where where 1005 00:35:28.574 --> 00:35:31.695 - they're protecting protecting. So, I mean alright. The 1006 00:35:31.695 --> 00:35:33.875 - way open rates are, 1007 00:35:35.369 --> 00:35:36.349 - generally speaking, 1008 00:35:37.049 --> 00:35:37.549 - tracked 1009 00:35:38.170 --> 00:35:39.309 - is by including 1010 00:35:39.609 --> 00:35:41.789 - a one pixel by one pixel 1011 00:35:42.250 --> 00:35:45.449 - essentially invisible image that gets added to the 1012 00:35:45.449 --> 00:35:45.949 - newsletter 1013 00:35:46.650 --> 00:35:48.650 - by your email service, by your by your 1014 00:35:48.650 --> 00:35:49.549 - newsletter service. 1015 00:35:49.965 --> 00:35:51.905 - Okay. And that 1016 00:35:52.525 --> 00:35:54.385 - image won't be called up 1017 00:35:54.684 --> 00:35:55.184 - until 1018 00:35:55.485 --> 00:35:56.785 - the email is opened. 1019 00:35:57.644 --> 00:36:00.305 - Right? Mhmm. And that's when the server knows 1020 00:36:00.845 --> 00:36:01.345 - that, 1021 00:36:03.485 --> 00:36:05.025 - yes. This email has been opened. 1022 00:36:05.960 --> 00:36:07.819 - Right? So I could I could see Apple 1023 00:36:08.039 --> 00:36:08.539 - doing 1024 00:36:09.159 --> 00:36:09.659 - its 1025 00:36:10.199 --> 00:36:12.039 - eventually, at least, I could see Apple doing 1026 00:36:12.039 --> 00:36:13.179 - its part to 1027 00:36:13.799 --> 00:36:16.460 - prevent that sort of thing from from happening. 1028 00:36:17.000 --> 00:36:19.579 - I have never noticed an opt 1029 00:36:20.355 --> 00:36:21.094 - out feature 1030 00:36:21.954 --> 00:36:22.855 - on my 1031 00:36:23.554 --> 00:36:24.614 - mac dot com 1032 00:36:25.554 --> 00:36:28.195 - email address. And, again, I've got lots of 1033 00:36:28.195 --> 00:36:30.054 - got lots of Mac users in my list. 1034 00:36:30.755 --> 00:36:31.414 - They're opening. 1035 00:36:32.650 --> 00:36:33.150 - Okay. 1036 00:36:33.449 --> 00:36:35.449 - So with the at the time we're we're 1037 00:36:35.449 --> 00:36:37.849 - talking, that's not a thing to worry about. 1038 00:36:37.849 --> 00:36:39.929 - I don't. Basically, the data you can see 1039 00:36:39.929 --> 00:36:42.730 - from your from your hosting service, your email 1040 00:36:42.730 --> 00:36:45.795 - hosting service, is probably accurate. Probably accurate. Yeah. 1041 00:36:45.795 --> 00:36:48.054 - And I've also got a couple of Proton, 1042 00:36:48.594 --> 00:36:49.494 - users. Proton, 1043 00:36:51.234 --> 00:36:51.734 - absolutely 1044 00:36:52.034 --> 00:36:54.275 - is privacy obsessed, and and they may be 1045 00:36:54.275 --> 00:36:55.875 - the one company that's doing as much as 1046 00:36:55.875 --> 00:36:58.910 - Apple in the privacy space. And my point 1047 00:36:58.910 --> 00:37:02.590 - is, I see open data from Proton users 1048 00:37:02.590 --> 00:37:03.090 - too. 1049 00:37:03.789 --> 00:37:04.289 - Okay. 1050 00:37:04.750 --> 00:37:06.670 - Okay. Well, that that's a relief to me. 1051 00:37:06.670 --> 00:37:07.170 - Yeah. 1052 00:37:07.869 --> 00:37:09.309 - So maybe I don't have to do that 1053 00:37:09.309 --> 00:37:10.610 - whole second chance email 1054 00:37:11.135 --> 00:37:14.175 - thing anymore. Yeah. And also, you know, why 1055 00:37:14.175 --> 00:37:16.014 - bother? Just just boot them through opening your 1056 00:37:16.014 --> 00:37:16.514 - letter. 1057 00:37:18.894 --> 00:37:20.655 - Well, I always kinda wonder if maybe it's 1058 00:37:20.655 --> 00:37:22.974 - just that that last opportunity to to talk 1059 00:37:22.974 --> 00:37:24.414 - to them and and talk them back in. 1060 00:37:24.414 --> 00:37:26.014 - But again, if I've gotta go to that 1061 00:37:26.014 --> 00:37:28.276 - much effort, then maybe that's not and as 1062 00:37:28.276 --> 00:37:30.769 - I say, only one person's ever said, no. 1063 00:37:30.769 --> 00:37:33.263 - No. No. Don't unsubscribe me. I like getting 1064 00:37:33.263 --> 00:37:36.068 - your emails. I am reading them, whether she 1065 00:37:36.068 --> 00:37:38.561 - was or not. And I knew that person, 1066 00:37:38.873 --> 00:37:41.654 - from an old job anyway. So, yeah, may 1067 00:37:41.775 --> 00:37:43.474 - maybe she was just making me feel better. 1068 00:37:43.614 --> 00:37:44.355 - I don't know. 1069 00:37:44.734 --> 00:37:45.234 - I've 1070 00:37:45.614 --> 00:37:46.914 - fair. Yeah. It's kinda 1071 00:37:47.534 --> 00:37:48.594 - people are people. 1072 00:37:49.054 --> 00:37:50.815 - That's it. The the other thing I read 1073 00:37:50.815 --> 00:37:52.414 - recently, and these things pop up all the 1074 00:37:52.414 --> 00:37:54.094 - time, particularly if you're in a lot of 1075 00:37:54.094 --> 00:37:55.234 - different writing groups, 1076 00:37:56.210 --> 00:37:58.210 - you know, suddenly someone sees something that everyone 1077 00:37:58.210 --> 00:37:59.190 - should panic about. 1078 00:37:59.650 --> 00:38:02.230 - So I've been with Mail Alight as my, 1079 00:38:02.769 --> 00:38:04.769 - my hosting service for emails for a while 1080 00:38:04.769 --> 00:38:06.929 - now. I'm very happy with them. It's not 1081 00:38:06.929 --> 00:38:09.569 - that expensive. It's very easy to use and 1082 00:38:09.569 --> 00:38:10.069 - fix. 1083 00:38:11.045 --> 00:38:12.965 - As I'm relearning, as I'm sort of going 1084 00:38:12.965 --> 00:38:15.045 - through things again since yesterday trying to rejig 1085 00:38:15.045 --> 00:38:15.545 - things, 1086 00:38:16.644 --> 00:38:18.885 - whereas Mailchimp and another one I used years 1087 00:38:18.885 --> 00:38:20.505 - ago when I had a coaching practice, 1088 00:38:21.045 --> 00:38:22.905 - for that that sort of business newsletter, 1089 00:38:23.400 --> 00:38:25.239 - I found them very clunky, very tough to 1090 00:38:25.239 --> 00:38:26.139 - to use. Anyway, 1091 00:38:26.599 --> 00:38:28.280 - the the things I was reading last week 1092 00:38:28.280 --> 00:38:30.199 - were saying, oh, no. MailerLite's changing this and 1093 00:38:30.199 --> 00:38:32.519 - changing that. You should now all shift across. 1094 00:38:32.519 --> 00:38:34.280 - Because two two or three, four years ago, 1095 00:38:34.280 --> 00:38:36.280 - it was, no. Get away from MailChimp and 1096 00:38:36.280 --> 00:38:37.099 - go to MailerLite. 1097 00:38:37.414 --> 00:38:39.414 - Now it's, no. No. No. MailerLite's no good. 1098 00:38:39.414 --> 00:38:41.014 - Get away from MailerLite and go to this 1099 00:38:41.014 --> 00:38:41.755 - one instead. 1100 00:38:43.815 --> 00:38:44.554 - I often 1101 00:38:44.855 --> 00:38:45.994 - see things like that 1102 00:38:46.695 --> 00:38:49.195 - that sort of are based on panic and, 1103 00:38:50.289 --> 00:38:52.609 - you know, anxiety and thinking, maybe I'll just 1104 00:38:52.609 --> 00:38:53.989 - see how this works out. 1105 00:38:54.449 --> 00:38:57.250 - Because it should we bother changing when we 1106 00:38:57.250 --> 00:38:58.389 - start seeing that 1107 00:38:59.089 --> 00:39:01.489 - that kind of chat, chitchat on on social 1108 00:39:01.489 --> 00:39:01.989 - media? 1109 00:39:03.184 --> 00:39:05.925 - That that is that is a subjective call. 1110 00:39:06.465 --> 00:39:07.684 - Okay. To me, 1111 00:39:09.585 --> 00:39:11.525 - the the mark is 1112 00:39:11.905 --> 00:39:12.405 - the 1113 00:39:12.784 --> 00:39:15.284 - the the first mark and the mark that 1114 00:39:15.980 --> 00:39:17.039 - probably affects 1115 00:39:18.219 --> 00:39:20.619 - the vast majority of people are even considering 1116 00:39:20.619 --> 00:39:21.599 - this is 1117 00:39:21.900 --> 00:39:22.639 - the tier 1118 00:39:23.260 --> 00:39:25.339 - at which the number of subscribers you have 1119 00:39:25.339 --> 00:39:27.099 - and the number of emails that go out 1120 00:39:27.099 --> 00:39:27.760 - per month. 1121 00:39:30.715 --> 00:39:32.875 - When that number crosses the threshold for for 1122 00:39:32.875 --> 00:39:33.934 - you having to pay. 1123 00:39:34.474 --> 00:39:35.614 - Mhmm. And, 1124 00:39:41.829 --> 00:39:43.829 - I feel like that's that's probably the mark 1125 00:39:43.829 --> 00:39:46.309 - that that affects the most of us, but 1126 00:39:46.309 --> 00:39:49.750 - it's also the only mark that I really 1127 00:39:49.750 --> 00:39:51.929 - care about. As long as the service 1128 00:39:52.469 --> 00:39:54.089 - has got the features I want, 1129 00:39:54.954 --> 00:39:56.554 - that's really the only that's that's the only 1130 00:39:56.554 --> 00:39:57.675 - thing that I need to worry about is, 1131 00:39:57.675 --> 00:39:59.054 - am I gonna have to pay for this? 1132 00:39:59.594 --> 00:40:02.394 - Yeah. So if the price goes up significantly 1133 00:40:02.394 --> 00:40:04.074 - or the number of free subscribers you can 1134 00:40:04.074 --> 00:40:04.815 - have drops, 1135 00:40:05.275 --> 00:40:07.114 - significantly, that that might be a good reason 1136 00:40:07.114 --> 00:40:07.614 - to 1137 00:40:08.049 --> 00:40:09.510 - to consider moving. But, 1138 00:40:09.889 --> 00:40:11.589 - yeah, even then, I think, 1139 00:40:12.289 --> 00:40:14.130 - it's gotta move a lot. That may have 1140 00:40:14.130 --> 00:40:15.569 - been what the chitchat was about last week. 1141 00:40:15.569 --> 00:40:17.170 - I can't even Yeah. That was what that 1142 00:40:17.170 --> 00:40:18.289 - was what it was about. That was what 1143 00:40:18.289 --> 00:40:19.809 - it was about. Yeah. And I I do 1144 00:40:19.809 --> 00:40:22.105 - remember reading it and thinking 1145 00:40:22.484 --> 00:40:24.644 - whatever they're talking about is just not there's 1146 00:40:24.644 --> 00:40:26.565 - not enough reason for me to go to 1147 00:40:26.565 --> 00:40:27.464 - all the trouble 1148 00:40:28.085 --> 00:40:30.085 - of changing you know, moving everything across to 1149 00:40:30.085 --> 00:40:32.025 - a new new hosting service again. 1150 00:40:33.284 --> 00:40:35.980 - Yeah. I just really had much trouble last 1151 00:40:35.980 --> 00:40:37.579 - time. That's one thing that, 1152 00:40:38.539 --> 00:40:40.460 - that MailerLite's worried about. Right? I mean, it's 1153 00:40:40.460 --> 00:40:43.260 - from the standpoint of of their their their 1154 00:40:43.260 --> 00:40:44.079 - own costs. 1155 00:40:44.460 --> 00:40:44.960 - They 1156 00:40:45.260 --> 00:40:45.900 - want to 1157 00:40:47.255 --> 00:40:49.335 - if they have us locked in as as 1158 00:40:49.335 --> 00:40:49.835 - authors, 1159 00:40:50.695 --> 00:40:51.994 - as newsletter providers 1160 00:40:52.375 --> 00:40:53.275 - or newsletter 1161 00:40:53.655 --> 00:40:54.155 - generators, 1162 00:40:54.535 --> 00:40:56.375 - if they have us locked in and they 1163 00:40:56.375 --> 00:40:58.135 - can they can convert us from a free 1164 00:40:58.135 --> 00:40:59.434 - client to a paid client, 1165 00:40:59.820 --> 00:41:01.599 - that's good for MailerLite. Right? 1166 00:41:01.900 --> 00:41:03.980 - Yeah. And, you know, that's that's just a 1167 00:41:03.980 --> 00:41:04.480 - reality. 1168 00:41:06.619 --> 00:41:08.079 - And I I don't 1169 00:41:08.380 --> 00:41:11.099 - full confession because I do prune my list 1170 00:41:11.099 --> 00:41:13.875 - pretty pretty regularly as I've said. I don't 1171 00:41:13.954 --> 00:41:15.175 - I haven't hit the threshold 1172 00:41:15.635 --> 00:41:16.135 - yet 1173 00:41:16.594 --> 00:41:17.335 - where I 1174 00:41:17.875 --> 00:41:18.855 - need to pay, 1175 00:41:19.954 --> 00:41:21.635 - for the number of subscribers I've got, but 1176 00:41:21.635 --> 00:41:22.994 - I do pay. So I do pay for 1177 00:41:22.994 --> 00:41:25.235 - that next level because I've got extra features 1178 00:41:25.235 --> 00:41:27.494 - with it. And I felt like, you know, 1179 00:41:27.769 --> 00:41:28.889 - these guys I've been with them for a 1180 00:41:28.889 --> 00:41:30.969 - while. They've always been very responsive. I'm not 1181 00:41:30.969 --> 00:41:32.569 - trying to you know, I don't have shares 1182 00:41:32.569 --> 00:41:33.309 - in MailerLite. 1183 00:41:34.010 --> 00:41:35.530 - I don't I don't care what service people 1184 00:41:35.530 --> 00:41:36.510 - are with. But, 1185 00:41:37.050 --> 00:41:38.889 - you know, personally, I think, well, you know, 1186 00:41:38.889 --> 00:41:40.969 - then they deserve a little bit of a 1187 00:41:40.969 --> 00:41:41.869 - little bit of 1188 00:41:42.425 --> 00:41:42.925 - compensation 1189 00:41:43.385 --> 00:41:45.704 - for for what they're giving me. Absolutely. Absolutely. 1190 00:41:45.744 --> 00:41:48.505 - You know what? Yeah. Yeah. And and that's 1191 00:41:48.505 --> 00:41:50.344 - that's the that's the subject thing. If you're 1192 00:41:50.344 --> 00:41:50.844 - comfortable 1193 00:41:51.385 --> 00:41:54.844 - if you're comfortable paying Yeah. That price, then 1194 00:41:54.984 --> 00:41:56.764 - it's it's irrelevant, 1195 00:41:59.090 --> 00:41:59.590 - I 1196 00:41:59.890 --> 00:42:01.329 - think. Good to know. I made a good 1197 00:42:01.329 --> 00:42:03.030 - call then when I just dismissed 1198 00:42:03.809 --> 00:42:06.309 - all that panic. Yeah. I mean, you know, 1199 00:42:06.449 --> 00:42:08.150 - the writer community in particular 1200 00:42:09.329 --> 00:42:11.110 - and I see this on threads and 1201 00:42:11.410 --> 00:42:12.929 - not to get too far off tangent, but, 1202 00:42:14.025 --> 00:42:15.964 - you know, there's the drama of the day. 1203 00:42:16.744 --> 00:42:18.404 - Mhmm. And threads 1204 00:42:19.385 --> 00:42:22.025 - threads is owned by Meta. Meta has long 1205 00:42:22.025 --> 00:42:23.324 - ago learned that 1206 00:42:24.025 --> 00:42:26.284 - friction and people being upset 1207 00:42:27.630 --> 00:42:30.510 - gets engagement. Engagement means eyeballs stick around on 1208 00:42:30.510 --> 00:42:34.049 - their freaking site. And so their algorithm promotes, 1209 00:42:35.949 --> 00:42:36.449 - controversy. 1210 00:42:37.309 --> 00:42:38.530 - It does. And I 1211 00:42:41.775 --> 00:42:44.414 - do my best to never engage with the 1212 00:42:44.414 --> 00:42:46.574 - drama of the day so that I don't 1213 00:42:46.574 --> 00:42:48.034 - get any of that crap 1214 00:42:48.894 --> 00:42:50.755 - in my, feed on threads 1215 00:42:51.375 --> 00:42:51.875 - unless 1216 00:42:52.335 --> 00:42:54.989 - it's the the new stuff that that Meta 1217 00:42:54.989 --> 00:42:56.670 - is throwing at me to try to drag 1218 00:42:56.670 --> 00:42:58.989 - me into whatever new drama of the day 1219 00:42:58.989 --> 00:42:59.650 - there is. 1220 00:43:00.030 --> 00:43:00.530 - Mhmm. 1221 00:43:00.910 --> 00:43:03.329 - And I recommend that everybody 1222 00:43:04.269 --> 00:43:04.769 - ignore 1223 00:43:05.150 --> 00:43:06.849 - the drama of the day. 1224 00:43:08.005 --> 00:43:08.985 - It's not it. 1225 00:43:11.445 --> 00:43:12.664 - Don't be angry. 1226 00:43:12.965 --> 00:43:13.465 - Don't 1227 00:43:14.005 --> 00:43:16.644 - don't don't live your life being angry at 1228 00:43:16.644 --> 00:43:18.585 - what Meta wants us to be angry at. 1229 00:43:20.019 --> 00:43:22.180 - Yeah. We've in Australia here, it's July. We've 1230 00:43:22.180 --> 00:43:24.340 - just passed into the new financial year. I 1231 00:43:24.340 --> 00:43:25.480 - think that's my financial 1232 00:43:25.940 --> 00:43:27.000 - New Year's resolution 1233 00:43:27.940 --> 00:43:30.099 - is just to stay away from from that 1234 00:43:30.099 --> 00:43:32.340 - stuff. Yeah. And not as you say, not 1235 00:43:32.340 --> 00:43:34.864 - engage. Yeah. Yeah. Just don't don't engage. And 1236 00:43:34.864 --> 00:43:36.144 - I so I get I get a lot 1237 00:43:36.144 --> 00:43:37.824 - less of that in my you know, I'll 1238 00:43:37.824 --> 00:43:38.485 - see people 1239 00:43:39.585 --> 00:43:42.005 - I'll see other people posting about it, 1240 00:43:43.985 --> 00:43:45.985 - but it is it's a relatively small part 1241 00:43:45.985 --> 00:43:47.425 - of my feed, and and I I aim 1242 00:43:47.425 --> 00:43:48.485 - to keep it that way. 1243 00:43:48.890 --> 00:43:50.809 - Okay. I need to follow follow exactly what 1244 00:43:50.809 --> 00:43:52.730 - you were doing then because it's it's everywhere 1245 00:43:52.730 --> 00:43:54.670 - and everything I look at. It's tiring. 1246 00:43:55.530 --> 00:43:57.050 - Yeah. Look. I I don't have much else 1247 00:43:57.050 --> 00:43:58.730 - to say about the subject of newsletters except 1248 00:43:58.730 --> 00:44:00.730 - just maybe something just to kinda segue from 1249 00:44:00.730 --> 00:44:02.250 - what you're saying. And that's in terms of 1250 00:44:02.250 --> 00:44:04.184 - content, and I think this applies to social 1251 00:44:04.184 --> 00:44:05.164 - media as well. 1252 00:44:05.785 --> 00:44:07.625 - I I don't know whether it's because I'm 1253 00:44:07.625 --> 00:44:09.305 - an Aussie and our sense of humor is 1254 00:44:09.305 --> 00:44:11.565 - is fairly acerbic, fairly acidic, 1255 00:44:12.905 --> 00:44:14.905 - but or it's just my personality. But I 1256 00:44:15.065 --> 00:44:18.045 - yeah. It's quite I love that. I love 1257 00:44:18.170 --> 00:44:19.130 - I love, it 1258 00:44:20.170 --> 00:44:21.369 - Well, it's got me in trouble a few 1259 00:44:21.369 --> 00:44:23.130 - times, and I can be very sarcastic and 1260 00:44:23.130 --> 00:44:24.970 - and I can be very opinionated about 1261 00:44:25.450 --> 00:44:27.289 - usually about things that just don't matter, like 1262 00:44:27.289 --> 00:44:29.150 - a movie, what I thought of a movie, 1263 00:44:29.210 --> 00:44:30.809 - what I thought of a TV series, what 1264 00:44:30.809 --> 00:44:31.869 - I think of an actor. 1265 00:44:33.525 --> 00:44:36.085 - Content I'm learning is always better if it's 1266 00:44:36.085 --> 00:44:38.644 - positive in terms of our output, you know, 1267 00:44:38.644 --> 00:44:40.324 - our content, what we're putting out there to 1268 00:44:40.324 --> 00:44:42.964 - people who are readers and colleagues and potential 1269 00:44:42.964 --> 00:44:43.464 - readers. 1270 00:44:44.644 --> 00:44:47.284 - So for for newsletters in particular, I'm not 1271 00:44:47.284 --> 00:44:50.159 - so disciplined on social media. But in newsletters, 1272 00:44:50.219 --> 00:44:52.300 - I try very hard just to channel the 1273 00:44:52.300 --> 00:44:53.760 - positive side of my personality 1274 00:44:54.139 --> 00:44:55.599 - Yep. And my positive opinions 1275 00:44:56.139 --> 00:44:56.639 - because 1276 00:44:56.940 --> 00:44:59.340 - no one wants to open a newsletter that's 1277 00:44:59.340 --> 00:45:01.980 - just full of, oh, I hated Supergirl. Alright. 1278 00:45:01.980 --> 00:45:03.840 - And and by the way, I didn't didn't 1279 00:45:03.855 --> 00:45:05.215 - hate it. I'm just gonna put that out 1280 00:45:05.215 --> 00:45:07.454 - there. I'll probably get I'll probably get emails 1281 00:45:07.454 --> 00:45:09.375 - about why it was so bad now. That's 1282 00:45:09.375 --> 00:45:11.855 - fine. You're entitled to your opinion. But, yeah, 1283 00:45:11.855 --> 00:45:13.695 - I don't wanna read negative stuff like that. 1284 00:45:13.695 --> 00:45:16.175 - So in terms of content, particularly if I'm 1285 00:45:16.175 --> 00:45:18.815 - reviewing things, always try for the positive, I 1286 00:45:18.815 --> 00:45:21.130 - think is, yeah, this works very, very well 1287 00:45:21.130 --> 00:45:23.849 - for me. Right. I, I wanna take that 1288 00:45:23.849 --> 00:45:26.170 - a little bit further. And from the standpoint 1289 00:45:26.170 --> 00:45:28.570 - of probably teasing a future episode of the 1290 00:45:28.570 --> 00:45:29.070 - show 1291 00:45:30.170 --> 00:45:30.670 - about 1292 00:45:31.050 --> 00:45:31.550 - the 1293 00:45:32.614 --> 00:45:33.114 - problems 1294 00:45:33.574 --> 00:45:34.074 - with 1295 00:45:34.775 --> 00:45:37.175 - posting negative reviews of books in particular as 1296 00:45:37.175 --> 00:45:37.755 - an author. 1297 00:45:38.694 --> 00:45:39.194 - Mhmm. 1298 00:45:39.494 --> 00:45:39.994 - And, 1299 00:45:40.775 --> 00:45:42.315 - my my feeling is that 1300 00:45:45.014 --> 00:45:46.234 - that can come back 1301 00:45:46.869 --> 00:45:47.690 - to bite us. 1302 00:45:47.989 --> 00:45:49.829 - So I tend to if I don't have 1303 00:45:49.829 --> 00:45:51.190 - something good to say about a book, I 1304 00:45:51.190 --> 00:45:52.409 - tend to not post it. 1305 00:45:52.949 --> 00:45:53.849 - Yeah. Yeah. 1306 00:45:54.710 --> 00:45:56.550 - I agree. I agree. But that is worth 1307 00:45:56.630 --> 00:45:59.030 - that's worthy of its own discussion, I think. 1308 00:45:59.030 --> 00:46:01.945 - It is. Yeah. Yeah. Sure. Did you have 1309 00:46:01.945 --> 00:46:03.945 - anything else you wanted to add on the 1310 00:46:03.945 --> 00:46:04.925 - topic of newsletters? 1311 00:46:05.224 --> 00:46:06.925 - No. So let's let's sort of recap. 1312 00:46:07.465 --> 00:46:09.965 - Yeah. I I think that doing a weekly 1313 00:46:11.545 --> 00:46:12.684 - newsletter is best. 1314 00:46:15.519 --> 00:46:17.860 - If if you're if you're concerned about 1315 00:46:18.960 --> 00:46:21.700 - come up with the with the categories 1316 00:46:22.079 --> 00:46:23.539 - of different kinds of posts 1317 00:46:24.320 --> 00:46:26.880 - that that you want to draw from and 1318 00:46:26.880 --> 00:46:27.539 - make that 1319 00:46:27.945 --> 00:46:30.425 - make that list broad enough that you'll always 1320 00:46:30.425 --> 00:46:31.644 - be able to come up with something. 1321 00:46:32.985 --> 00:46:35.244 - And I I don't feel like 1322 00:46:35.945 --> 00:46:37.485 - that's particularly hard. 1323 00:46:37.945 --> 00:46:39.724 - That that could be my 1324 00:46:40.105 --> 00:46:40.605 - privileged 1325 00:46:41.400 --> 00:46:41.900 - opinion. 1326 00:46:42.199 --> 00:46:42.440 - But, 1327 00:46:44.599 --> 00:46:46.280 - yeah. I I don't I don't think that 1328 00:46:46.280 --> 00:46:47.420 - that that's too difficult. 1329 00:46:47.880 --> 00:46:48.380 - And 1330 00:46:49.960 --> 00:46:50.460 - you, 1331 00:46:51.159 --> 00:46:52.299 - want to aggressively 1332 00:46:52.679 --> 00:46:55.000 - prune your I think you should you should, 1333 00:46:55.239 --> 00:46:56.539 - aggressively prune 1334 00:46:56.875 --> 00:46:59.275 - your list. And if someone isn't opening it 1335 00:46:59.275 --> 00:47:00.974 - for weeks at a time, 1336 00:47:01.434 --> 00:47:01.934 - they 1337 00:47:02.235 --> 00:47:03.994 - probably don't need to be on your list. 1338 00:47:03.994 --> 00:47:04.974 - And then thirdly, 1339 00:47:05.515 --> 00:47:06.974 - don't worry about people unsubscribing. 1340 00:47:07.755 --> 00:47:08.735 - That's fine. 1341 00:47:09.114 --> 00:47:11.515 - That's fine. If people don't want your your 1342 00:47:11.515 --> 00:47:12.015 - newsletter, 1343 00:47:12.599 --> 00:47:14.380 - you you don't need them to be there. 1344 00:47:16.360 --> 00:47:19.180 - Sage advice, but my three takeaways would be 1345 00:47:19.239 --> 00:47:20.539 - to get the because 1346 00:47:21.720 --> 00:47:23.239 - to get me to the stage of writing 1347 00:47:23.239 --> 00:47:23.739 - weekly, 1348 00:47:24.280 --> 00:47:26.119 - I think that advice around the the six 1349 00:47:26.119 --> 00:47:29.054 - or seven topics to to focus around and 1350 00:47:29.054 --> 00:47:31.135 - to draw from is very for me, anyway, 1351 00:47:31.135 --> 00:47:33.215 - that's very, very good advice. And and I 1352 00:47:33.215 --> 00:47:34.494 - think that'll be helpful for a lot of 1353 00:47:34.494 --> 00:47:36.574 - people. I love that idea of the separate 1354 00:47:36.574 --> 00:47:37.715 - URL to track, 1355 00:47:38.414 --> 00:47:41.980 - who's, yeah, who's subscribing via reading books? Who's 1356 00:47:41.980 --> 00:47:43.360 - bouncing off off a book 1357 00:47:43.820 --> 00:47:46.059 - straight into your reader list? I think that's 1358 00:47:46.059 --> 00:47:47.980 - excellent. So I'm gonna definitely follow through on 1359 00:47:47.980 --> 00:47:48.480 - that. 1360 00:47:49.019 --> 00:47:50.460 - I I think the other thing for me 1361 00:47:50.460 --> 00:47:52.239 - personally is just not to get 1362 00:47:52.619 --> 00:47:54.079 - so when there's the latest 1363 00:47:54.815 --> 00:47:56.655 - controversy or the latest wave of, you know, 1364 00:47:56.655 --> 00:47:58.735 - everybody change from that service to that service 1365 00:47:58.735 --> 00:48:00.195 - or stop using Draft2Digital 1366 00:48:00.494 --> 00:48:01.474 - or whatever it is, 1367 00:48:01.855 --> 00:48:02.755 - to read it, 1368 00:48:03.055 --> 00:48:04.974 - listen to the arguments two and four, but 1369 00:48:04.974 --> 00:48:06.355 - not get caught up in the emotion 1370 00:48:06.750 --> 00:48:08.750 - of that to and to make a rational 1371 00:48:08.750 --> 00:48:10.530 - decision about that. Yeah. Yep. 1372 00:48:11.710 --> 00:48:12.769 - Yep. That's good. 1373 00:48:13.230 --> 00:48:14.769 - Alright. I bet Pete, 1374 00:48:15.630 --> 00:48:18.110 - good. It's good to, it's good to good 1375 00:48:18.110 --> 00:48:19.724 - good to kick the kick off the show 1376 00:48:19.724 --> 00:48:21.885 - with you. I'm looking forward to to to 1377 00:48:21.885 --> 00:48:24.444 - doing many shows with you. 100%. The sky's 1378 00:48:24.444 --> 00:48:26.045 - the limit. This is gonna be a great, 1379 00:48:26.045 --> 00:48:28.045 - great time we're gonna have. Yeah. Yeah. It 1380 00:48:28.045 --> 00:48:29.565 - is. Alright. And come along with us on 1381 00:48:29.565 --> 00:48:30.144 - the ride. 1382 00:48:30.525 --> 00:48:32.680 - Hit that subscribe button or, 1383 00:48:33.059 --> 00:48:33.640 - you know, 1384 00:48:34.579 --> 00:48:36.260 - and be it in a podcast or on 1385 00:48:36.260 --> 00:48:36.760 - YouTube. 1386 00:48:37.220 --> 00:48:38.500 - We'd love to have you along for the 1387 00:48:38.500 --> 00:48:39.000 - ride.