1 00:00:11,359 --> 00:00:12,105 Hi, and welcome 2 00:00:16,824 --> 00:00:17,625 w.org, 3 00:00:17,625 --> 00:00:20,664 Brookings, Oregon. Hi to our syndicated listeners at 4 00:00:20,664 --> 00:00:21,164 KZZH 5 00:00:21,625 --> 00:00:24,585 ninety six point seven FM Access Humble, Eureka, 6 00:00:24,585 --> 00:00:25,085 California, 7 00:00:25,625 --> 00:00:27,964 and our special welcome to our new listeners, 8 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:30,640 k s k q eighty nine point five 9 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:33,700 FM Ashland and ninety four point one FM 10 00:00:33,759 --> 00:00:34,739 Medford, Oregon. 11 00:00:35,119 --> 00:00:38,159 This is Joyously Free Radio with me, Joni 12 00:00:38,159 --> 00:00:40,799 Lindenmayer, the best selling author of None Better, 13 00:00:40,799 --> 00:00:43,984 an amazing love story and coauthor of Joyously 14 00:00:44,045 --> 00:00:46,524 Free and Healing Religious Hurts. I'm so glad 15 00:00:46,524 --> 00:00:48,304 that you are tuning in today. 16 00:00:48,605 --> 00:00:51,085 I'm a resident of Harbor, Oregon, a retired 17 00:00:51,085 --> 00:00:53,325 high school teacher, a recent author who has 18 00:00:53,325 --> 00:00:55,880 published three books in two years, created an 19 00:00:55,880 --> 00:00:58,520 audiobook, and with friend and film producer Michael 20 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:01,560 Gorse created a short film called Wowzer. Mike 21 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:03,240 and I are so excited that it has 22 00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:06,040 been selected and already shown at the LA 23 00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:09,555 Indie Shorts Film Festival. Truly a Wowzer. But 24 00:01:09,555 --> 00:01:11,635 most of all, I love life and love 25 00:01:11,635 --> 00:01:13,954 being the producer and host of this high 26 00:01:13,954 --> 00:01:18,515 energy joyously free radio gadio show so named 27 00:01:18,515 --> 00:01:19,655 by Will and Viv. 28 00:01:19,954 --> 00:01:21,575 This show talks about LGBTQ 29 00:01:22,275 --> 00:01:24,840 plus stories and tips along with religion, 30 00:01:25,299 --> 00:01:26,920 church, faith, spirituality, 31 00:01:27,379 --> 00:01:28,439 and most importantly, 32 00:01:28,819 --> 00:01:31,619 joy, the freedom to spread and to be 33 00:01:31,619 --> 00:01:34,500 your authentic self. Joyously Free was the name 34 00:01:34,500 --> 00:01:36,340 of my second book that I coauthored with 35 00:01:36,340 --> 00:01:39,399 Elizabeth Ann Atkins of 2sisterswriting.com. 36 00:01:39,539 --> 00:01:41,694 In In this radio broadcast, as in my 37 00:01:41,694 --> 00:01:44,354 everyday life, there will be no hate speech, 38 00:01:44,415 --> 00:01:46,894 no hate behaviors, and no bullying. It will 39 00:01:46,894 --> 00:01:49,694 be blasted with the three c's, courage, confidence, 40 00:01:49,694 --> 00:01:50,435 and collaboration. 41 00:01:50,894 --> 00:01:53,649 So together, let's sparkle and seek understanding. 42 00:01:54,590 --> 00:01:57,170 We begin every day with a daily salutation. 43 00:01:57,789 --> 00:02:00,030 I'll say, it's a brand new day, and 44 00:02:00,030 --> 00:02:03,149 your response is, it's never been lived before. 45 00:02:03,149 --> 00:02:05,145 Let's give it a try. It's a brand 46 00:02:05,145 --> 00:02:05,965 new day, 47 00:02:07,064 --> 00:02:09,865 and it's never been lived before. Yahoo. I'm 48 00:02:09,865 --> 00:02:11,944 glad we started our day off right. We 49 00:02:11,944 --> 00:02:13,944 also start every day with a prayer. So 50 00:02:13,944 --> 00:02:15,625 let's open our hearts, and we ask the 51 00:02:15,625 --> 00:02:17,865 divine to shine light on our community and 52 00:02:17,865 --> 00:02:20,580 our world. I excitedly believe in hope and 53 00:02:20,580 --> 00:02:22,740 the power of the spiritual and that Jesus, 54 00:02:22,740 --> 00:02:24,659 god's spirit, whatever name you put on a 55 00:02:24,659 --> 00:02:27,219 higher being, is always with me and always 56 00:02:27,219 --> 00:02:30,120 with you. So be not afraid or troubled, 57 00:02:30,740 --> 00:02:31,879 saddened or depressed. 58 00:02:32,495 --> 00:02:34,735 Joy and peace are an internal expression of 59 00:02:34,735 --> 00:02:37,394 love and harmony that is already within us. 60 00:02:37,454 --> 00:02:39,935 We only have to reach deep within and 61 00:02:39,935 --> 00:02:42,194 let it out. So let's center ourselves. 62 00:02:43,134 --> 00:02:45,234 Take a deep breath in with the good 63 00:02:46,580 --> 00:02:48,120 and out with any doubt. 64 00:02:50,180 --> 00:02:52,500 Again, breathe in through your nose with hope 65 00:02:52,500 --> 00:02:54,599 and out from your mouth with fears. 66 00:02:58,580 --> 00:03:00,979 Last one. Take a big, big deep breath 67 00:03:00,979 --> 00:03:02,039 in with joy 68 00:03:02,605 --> 00:03:04,545 and out with worry or despair. 69 00:03:05,245 --> 00:03:07,585 In the name of mother earth, creator god, 70 00:03:07,645 --> 00:03:10,444 Jesus redeemer, and the blowing winds of the 71 00:03:10,444 --> 00:03:13,325 Holy Spirit, we say, hi. Thank you for 72 00:03:13,325 --> 00:03:15,185 this beautiful, beautiful day. 73 00:03:15,900 --> 00:03:17,760 The quote I have today 74 00:03:18,139 --> 00:03:21,760 came from a funny book of church bulletins. 75 00:03:22,219 --> 00:03:24,620 And I I'm doing this one because the 76 00:03:24,620 --> 00:03:27,020 interview I will be having with Dan, Daniel, 77 00:03:27,020 --> 00:03:28,764 in just a few minutes, I think is 78 00:03:28,764 --> 00:03:31,425 apropos because he is driving in his car. 79 00:03:31,564 --> 00:03:32,705 So here's the quote. 80 00:03:33,724 --> 00:03:35,344 Honk if you love Jesus. 81 00:03:36,125 --> 00:03:38,125 Text while driving if you want to meet 82 00:03:38,125 --> 00:03:38,625 Jesus. 83 00:03:39,405 --> 00:03:41,645 I laugh so hard with that because isn't 84 00:03:41,645 --> 00:03:43,879 that the case? You know, it's so easy 85 00:03:43,939 --> 00:03:46,099 for us in our life that we can 86 00:03:46,099 --> 00:03:46,599 be, 87 00:03:46,900 --> 00:03:49,379 honking and blowing and tooting our horns and 88 00:03:49,379 --> 00:03:52,020 whatever and and saying, hi, Jesus. But at 89 00:03:52,020 --> 00:03:54,340 the same time, we've gotta make sure that 90 00:03:54,340 --> 00:03:56,465 we are safe that we are safe, that 91 00:03:56,465 --> 00:03:59,425 we're surrounded by people that love us, care 92 00:03:59,425 --> 00:04:01,985 for us, that we're in situations that keep 93 00:04:01,985 --> 00:04:04,384 us safe from harm. And and that's what 94 00:04:04,384 --> 00:04:05,905 we try to do. That's what we try 95 00:04:05,905 --> 00:04:07,905 to do. But we always know that Jesus, 96 00:04:07,905 --> 00:04:10,110 God's spirit, whatever name you put on it, 97 00:04:10,189 --> 00:04:12,530 is always there to help and protect us. 98 00:04:12,750 --> 00:04:14,909 So, Lord, thank you for giving me those 99 00:04:14,909 --> 00:04:17,790 wisdoms today. Maybe you can lift up my 100 00:04:17,790 --> 00:04:20,029 friends and my family and all of our 101 00:04:20,029 --> 00:04:22,610 friends and family, helping us to heal, 102 00:04:23,055 --> 00:04:25,455 provide us guidance, and most of all, just 103 00:04:25,455 --> 00:04:26,834 pour on the love to 104 00:04:27,134 --> 00:04:29,314 us. Yes. Thank you very much, Jesus. 105 00:04:29,855 --> 00:04:32,735 So let's move on. We have a special 106 00:04:32,735 --> 00:04:33,555 guest today, 107 00:04:33,855 --> 00:04:35,535 and he's been a friend of mine for 108 00:04:35,535 --> 00:04:38,220 a long time. He is what I call 109 00:04:38,540 --> 00:04:41,519 the interior designer guru of the world. 110 00:04:41,819 --> 00:04:44,220 Oh my gosh. His our topic is gonna 111 00:04:44,220 --> 00:04:47,259 be a blessed gay man. Let me introduce 112 00:04:47,259 --> 00:04:50,720 you everybody to Daniel Perry. Hi, Dan. 113 00:04:51,660 --> 00:04:53,644 Hey, Joanie. Good morning. I think you over 114 00:04:53,805 --> 00:04:55,725 oversold me. Of the world, I don't think 115 00:04:55,725 --> 00:04:56,225 so. 116 00:04:56,764 --> 00:04:58,604 To me, you are. To me, you are. 117 00:04:58,604 --> 00:05:01,245 You've helped decorate my my house many a 118 00:05:01,245 --> 00:05:03,404 time and just my life in general. So 119 00:05:03,404 --> 00:05:04,785 how are you doing today? 120 00:05:05,245 --> 00:05:07,404 I'm doing great. I am driving, like you 121 00:05:07,404 --> 00:05:09,639 said. I'm just outside of Moab, 122 00:05:10,419 --> 00:05:11,620 Utah on my way, 123 00:05:12,019 --> 00:05:14,040 to my home in Santa Fe, New Mexico. 124 00:05:14,339 --> 00:05:16,740 Fantastic. Okay. So you drive safe today. Okay. 125 00:05:16,740 --> 00:05:18,339 We don't want you to meet Jesus and 126 00:05:18,339 --> 00:05:19,860 and head up to heaven yet. There's too 127 00:05:19,860 --> 00:05:21,459 many things that you need to accomplish, I 128 00:05:21,459 --> 00:05:23,585 think. We have too many adventures ahead of 129 00:05:23,585 --> 00:05:25,904 us, so that's not today. Right on. Right 130 00:05:25,904 --> 00:05:28,384 on. God willing. God willing. Yes. For sure. 131 00:05:28,384 --> 00:05:30,465 For sure. Well, Dan, you know, my my 132 00:05:30,465 --> 00:05:32,384 friends on radio here don't really know you. 133 00:05:32,384 --> 00:05:34,225 Can you tell us a little bit about 134 00:05:34,225 --> 00:05:35,845 your background and 135 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:39,000 when you actually determined and figured out and 136 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:41,100 came out to yourself as a gay man? 137 00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:44,759 Oh, boy. Such a story. Yes. Yes. How 138 00:05:44,759 --> 00:05:45,899 do I convince that? 139 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:47,740 You know, 140 00:05:48,519 --> 00:05:51,024 born and raised in Santa Cruz, California. 141 00:05:51,485 --> 00:05:53,185 I'm the child of, 142 00:05:53,725 --> 00:05:55,564 surfer kids. I think they were 17 or 143 00:05:55,564 --> 00:05:57,564 18 when they figured out that I was 144 00:05:57,564 --> 00:05:58,305 on the way 145 00:05:58,685 --> 00:06:01,504 and, grew up with a very Spanish Catholic 146 00:06:01,564 --> 00:06:04,100 family. My grandparents are Mary and Joseph. 147 00:06:04,639 --> 00:06:06,399 And, so, you know, I didn't have a 148 00:06:06,399 --> 00:06:08,420 choice. I'm I'm Daniel Joseph John. 149 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:09,300 And, 150 00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:12,399 you know, I I don't know if I 151 00:06:12,399 --> 00:06:15,435 ever put a label on it, but, I 152 00:06:15,514 --> 00:06:17,595 grew up in a family with with gay 153 00:06:17,595 --> 00:06:20,314 cousins that, didn't have labels either. We were 154 00:06:20,314 --> 00:06:23,035 all trying to figure things out. So, I 155 00:06:23,035 --> 00:06:23,774 would imagine, 156 00:06:24,394 --> 00:06:26,814 oh gosh, maybe around sixth grade or so, 157 00:06:26,875 --> 00:06:29,829 around 12. You know, I I started to 158 00:06:29,829 --> 00:06:31,750 have an idea of what was going on, 159 00:06:31,750 --> 00:06:33,589 but didn't didn't really put a label on 160 00:06:33,589 --> 00:06:35,670 it until probably after high school. So I 161 00:06:35,670 --> 00:06:38,170 think I took from maybe age 12 to 162 00:06:38,310 --> 00:06:40,995 age 17. I graduated early to kind of 163 00:06:40,995 --> 00:06:43,634 figure out what was, what was going on 164 00:06:43,634 --> 00:06:44,535 with me. And, 165 00:06:45,074 --> 00:06:47,235 still wound up marrying a woman before I 166 00:06:47,235 --> 00:06:49,155 had a relationship with a man. So, you 167 00:06:49,155 --> 00:06:50,835 know, it's I think with everybody, at least 168 00:06:50,835 --> 00:06:52,355 with me, it was a a journey, and 169 00:06:52,355 --> 00:06:54,275 it probably took a big ten or fifteen 170 00:06:54,275 --> 00:06:56,419 years to kind of work through that process. 171 00:06:56,959 --> 00:06:58,639 Right. Right. Oh my and you said you 172 00:06:58,639 --> 00:07:00,720 were married to a woman. And so do 173 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:02,720 you think that was society pressure? Does do 174 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:04,160 you think that was just part of your 175 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:06,740 sexual identity? Where where was that coming from? 176 00:07:07,544 --> 00:07:08,784 Yeah. You know, I think they call it 177 00:07:08,824 --> 00:07:10,904 is it the Kinsey scale? Mhmm. And, you 178 00:07:10,904 --> 00:07:13,384 know, very few people are a 100% straight. 179 00:07:13,384 --> 00:07:15,865 Very few people are a 100% gay. Everybody's 180 00:07:15,865 --> 00:07:17,144 kind of on the scale. But at the 181 00:07:17,144 --> 00:07:19,384 time, I didn't have those resources like we 182 00:07:19,384 --> 00:07:21,064 have now with the Internet and, you know, 183 00:07:21,064 --> 00:07:23,250 our library didn't have those books that helped 184 00:07:23,250 --> 00:07:25,170 me figure out who I was. And so 185 00:07:25,170 --> 00:07:27,009 I thought you always had to be all 186 00:07:27,009 --> 00:07:28,610 of something or all of something else. You 187 00:07:28,610 --> 00:07:30,949 had to be completely gay or completely straight 188 00:07:31,009 --> 00:07:32,050 or you had to be, 189 00:07:32,610 --> 00:07:35,654 completely religious or completely not. I I never 190 00:07:35,654 --> 00:07:37,095 knew there was the in between on any 191 00:07:37,095 --> 00:07:39,194 of those things. Mhmm. And so, 192 00:07:39,654 --> 00:07:42,055 you know, for me, kind of figuring out, 193 00:07:42,055 --> 00:07:44,375 oh, you know, I, I can beat a 194 00:07:44,375 --> 00:07:46,534 relationship with a woman and and and and 195 00:07:46,534 --> 00:07:48,534 it was fine, and and we actually had 196 00:07:48,534 --> 00:07:49,354 a good relationship. 197 00:07:49,814 --> 00:07:50,314 But 198 00:07:51,310 --> 00:07:51,810 but 199 00:07:52,110 --> 00:07:53,949 where was I gonna wait things? And for 200 00:07:53,949 --> 00:07:55,389 me, I would say, you know, maybe it 201 00:07:55,389 --> 00:07:57,709 was like an eighty twenty or seventy five 202 00:07:57,709 --> 00:07:58,670 twenty five, and, 203 00:07:59,069 --> 00:08:00,189 and then I had to be able to 204 00:08:00,189 --> 00:08:01,490 come up terms with myself. 205 00:08:01,790 --> 00:08:03,310 Mhmm. And that that took a little while 206 00:08:03,310 --> 00:08:04,935 to figure out that that was okay. That 207 00:08:04,935 --> 00:08:06,774 I didn't have to be a 100% something 208 00:08:06,774 --> 00:08:08,454 or a 100% something else or I was 209 00:08:08,454 --> 00:08:11,814 broken or wrong. Right. Oh, exactly. And when 210 00:08:11,814 --> 00:08:13,834 you figure that out for your true authenticity 211 00:08:14,454 --> 00:08:14,954 authenticity, 212 00:08:15,495 --> 00:08:17,175 then then it just feels right. That's a 213 00:08:17,175 --> 00:08:18,779 joyously free moment, isn't it? 214 00:08:19,339 --> 00:08:21,339 Absolutely. Well, you were there for it. I 215 00:08:21,339 --> 00:08:23,339 know. When I when I met my first 216 00:08:23,339 --> 00:08:25,839 partner and, you know, it and literally, 217 00:08:26,220 --> 00:08:28,540 you know, it the the doors opened. I 218 00:08:28,540 --> 00:08:31,180 had a a better understanding of who I 219 00:08:31,180 --> 00:08:33,164 was and what I needed in my life. 220 00:08:33,324 --> 00:08:35,105 And as soon as I had that understanding, 221 00:08:35,164 --> 00:08:37,004 I was able to open up those doors 222 00:08:37,004 --> 00:08:38,924 and windows. The person that I needed to 223 00:08:38,924 --> 00:08:41,084 come in came in for the the the 224 00:08:41,084 --> 00:08:43,644 next ten years, and, and it was amazing. 225 00:08:43,644 --> 00:08:45,324 It was it was everything I wanted it 226 00:08:45,324 --> 00:08:47,129 to be. Yes. Yes. You know? And take 227 00:08:47,129 --> 00:08:49,610 us back to that time how you met 228 00:08:49,610 --> 00:08:51,690 myself and my honey, Carol. I think this 229 00:08:51,690 --> 00:08:52,669 is a great story. 230 00:08:53,129 --> 00:08:53,870 Yeah. Absolutely. 231 00:08:54,490 --> 00:08:57,289 I was working at a a design center 232 00:08:57,289 --> 00:08:58,509 in Southern Oregon, 233 00:08:58,845 --> 00:09:01,725 and, you and Carol came in shopping. I 234 00:09:01,725 --> 00:09:03,404 had just started there. I I don't know 235 00:09:03,404 --> 00:09:04,605 if it was my first day or my 236 00:09:04,605 --> 00:09:06,524 first week, but it was it was definitely 237 00:09:06,524 --> 00:09:09,004 the very beginning of my design career. And, 238 00:09:09,404 --> 00:09:11,644 I remember that you came in specifically looking 239 00:09:11,644 --> 00:09:12,865 for a leather sofa, 240 00:09:13,245 --> 00:09:15,289 that you were looking for an Italian leather 241 00:09:15,289 --> 00:09:15,789 sofa, 242 00:09:16,250 --> 00:09:17,769 and and then you threw in the Zinger, 243 00:09:17,769 --> 00:09:19,629 which is you wanted it to be purple. 244 00:09:19,769 --> 00:09:20,570 Yes. And, 245 00:09:21,129 --> 00:09:22,889 and I knew that that was gonna be, 246 00:09:23,129 --> 00:09:25,709 both, you know, expensive and and 247 00:09:26,009 --> 00:09:27,629 difficult to find and, 248 00:09:28,205 --> 00:09:29,884 and that we better get you committed to 249 00:09:29,884 --> 00:09:31,085 it because I didn't know who else we 250 00:09:31,085 --> 00:09:33,644 were gonna resell that purple sofa to. And 251 00:09:33,644 --> 00:09:34,144 luckily, 252 00:09:34,524 --> 00:09:37,565 purple didn't exist, but eggplant existed. And we 253 00:09:37,565 --> 00:09:40,684 found that, purple or, eggplant in a Tootsie 254 00:09:40,684 --> 00:09:41,184 sofa. 255 00:09:41,644 --> 00:09:44,579 And, I remember the, the owner of the 256 00:09:44,579 --> 00:09:45,079 store, 257 00:09:45,779 --> 00:09:47,700 insisted that you paid a 100% because he 258 00:09:47,700 --> 00:09:49,159 wasn't gonna get stuck with it. 259 00:09:49,940 --> 00:09:51,779 And we hit it off right then. You 260 00:09:51,779 --> 00:09:54,179 know? I think I was 26 or 27 261 00:09:54,179 --> 00:09:56,284 years old, so quite a few years ago. 262 00:09:56,504 --> 00:09:56,904 And, 263 00:09:57,465 --> 00:10:00,024 you invited you and Carol invited me, for 264 00:10:00,024 --> 00:10:02,345 dinner to bring dinner over. And, 265 00:10:02,745 --> 00:10:04,585 I, you know, was recently out of college. 266 00:10:04,585 --> 00:10:06,105 I'm not making a whole lot of money. 267 00:10:06,105 --> 00:10:06,424 So, 268 00:10:07,384 --> 00:10:08,605 a free dinner sounded 269 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:10,700 awesome compared to eating cereal 270 00:10:11,399 --> 00:10:12,139 and ramen. 271 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:14,679 And and plus and and plus, I was 272 00:10:14,679 --> 00:10:16,120 clicking with you even though I didn't I 273 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:17,559 didn't know either one of you, and it 274 00:10:17,559 --> 00:10:19,240 wasn't until you came over for dinner, we 275 00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:22,139 started started sharing our stories that, 276 00:10:23,399 --> 00:10:23,924 I I just 277 00:10:24,725 --> 00:10:26,084 I knew he would always be in my 278 00:10:26,084 --> 00:10:27,924 life, and and you always have been. You 279 00:10:27,924 --> 00:10:29,524 bet. You bet. And that that dinner, you 280 00:10:29,524 --> 00:10:31,125 know, what were some of the stories that 281 00:10:31,125 --> 00:10:32,825 we shared that helped you? 282 00:10:33,524 --> 00:10:34,804 You know, one of the things and and, 283 00:10:34,804 --> 00:10:36,325 you know, I've I've I've mentioned this to 284 00:10:36,325 --> 00:10:37,605 you a bunch of times, but not to 285 00:10:37,605 --> 00:10:40,070 everybody listening, is one of my very favorite 286 00:10:40,070 --> 00:10:43,110 things about, Carol was Carol's ability to be 287 00:10:43,110 --> 00:10:44,009 kind and direct. 288 00:10:44,389 --> 00:10:45,909 And, she did it with me over and 289 00:10:45,909 --> 00:10:47,750 over again. I'd start to spin a story 290 00:10:47,750 --> 00:10:49,589 or a a yarn or a tall tale, 291 00:10:49,589 --> 00:10:51,269 and and she would just walk it right 292 00:10:51,269 --> 00:10:53,634 in. Boom. Boom. Boom. But in a very 293 00:10:53,634 --> 00:10:56,115 kind way. And so, you know, one of 294 00:10:56,115 --> 00:10:57,475 my one of my things I was really 295 00:10:57,475 --> 00:10:59,714 dealing with or struggling with was I knew 296 00:10:59,714 --> 00:11:01,554 I wasn't particularly a religious person, but I 297 00:11:01,554 --> 00:11:03,970 was definitely a very spiritual person. And I've 298 00:11:03,970 --> 00:11:05,910 been told over and over again, 299 00:11:06,450 --> 00:11:07,090 in different, 300 00:11:07,410 --> 00:11:08,070 gay community 301 00:11:08,529 --> 00:11:10,610 meetings and groups I tried to join that 302 00:11:10,610 --> 00:11:12,049 you had to be one or the other. 303 00:11:12,049 --> 00:11:14,690 You were either gay or you were spiritual 304 00:11:14,690 --> 00:11:17,024 slash religious, but you couldn't be both. And 305 00:11:17,024 --> 00:11:19,424 I I didn't know how to make that 306 00:11:19,424 --> 00:11:20,884 okay in my head because, 307 00:11:21,504 --> 00:11:23,024 that's the family I grew up with. I 308 00:11:23,024 --> 00:11:24,884 had extremely positive experiences 309 00:11:25,504 --> 00:11:27,365 both in my church and with my family, 310 00:11:28,065 --> 00:11:29,764 both in religion and spiritual. 311 00:11:30,090 --> 00:11:31,450 And I I knew for me that it 312 00:11:31,450 --> 00:11:33,129 wasn't a religious thing. It was a spiritual 313 00:11:33,129 --> 00:11:35,450 thing, but I had to had to come 314 00:11:35,450 --> 00:11:37,930 to those terms of combining those things of 315 00:11:37,930 --> 00:11:40,970 being spiritual and also being gay. And, 316 00:11:41,370 --> 00:11:44,434 literally, Carol said, well, what? Why can't you? 317 00:11:45,375 --> 00:11:46,995 Mhmm. And I thought, 318 00:11:48,894 --> 00:11:51,215 well, all my excuses were gone in one 319 00:11:51,215 --> 00:11:54,174 sentence. Right. Well, why can't who why are 320 00:11:54,174 --> 00:11:56,254 you listening to everybody else? You know? Why 321 00:11:56,254 --> 00:11:58,415 can't why if if you are spiritual and 322 00:11:58,415 --> 00:12:00,379 you are are gay, why can't you people? 323 00:12:00,679 --> 00:12:03,000 And it is literally that simple. And my 324 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:04,919 my whole life changed in that in that 325 00:12:04,919 --> 00:12:06,620 dinner. And my 326 00:12:07,159 --> 00:12:09,480 and has changed ever since then. And I've 327 00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:11,715 reflected back that and reflected with others 328 00:12:12,195 --> 00:12:14,815 on that and used that same, 329 00:12:15,715 --> 00:12:17,875 way of thinking with other people when they 330 00:12:17,875 --> 00:12:19,555 say things like that. Well, why why why 331 00:12:19,555 --> 00:12:20,535 can't you be? 332 00:12:20,915 --> 00:12:23,315 And it's it's it's amazing when you think, 333 00:12:23,315 --> 00:12:24,835 oh, I don't have to listen to everybody 334 00:12:24,835 --> 00:12:25,735 else. I can 335 00:12:26,230 --> 00:12:28,389 I can I can make this decision? And 336 00:12:28,389 --> 00:12:30,169 I I didn't come from a world where 337 00:12:30,789 --> 00:12:32,889 I made those decisions. I relied on others, 338 00:12:33,110 --> 00:12:35,830 on family and friends to to have their 339 00:12:35,830 --> 00:12:38,789 input and make decisions for me. Mhmm. Never 340 00:12:38,789 --> 00:12:40,304 maybe feeling smart enough 341 00:12:42,065 --> 00:12:44,625 or informed enough. Mhmm. So I always relied 342 00:12:44,625 --> 00:12:46,004 on others and then 343 00:12:46,705 --> 00:12:50,304 based my decisions on their information, and it 344 00:12:50,304 --> 00:12:51,745 really started putting me on a path of 345 00:12:51,745 --> 00:12:52,725 thinking for myself. 346 00:12:53,184 --> 00:12:55,610 Yes. Yes. And and that self talk, that 347 00:12:55,610 --> 00:12:57,610 self esteem that grew from that, you know, 348 00:12:57,610 --> 00:12:59,210 and and I've been a witness of watching 349 00:12:59,210 --> 00:13:00,730 you for the last thirty years that I've 350 00:13:00,730 --> 00:13:02,990 known you, how you've grown spiritually, 351 00:13:03,529 --> 00:13:04,029 religiously, 352 00:13:05,050 --> 00:13:05,550 daily, 353 00:13:06,345 --> 00:13:08,024 all of all of the above. You know? 354 00:13:08,024 --> 00:13:09,865 And and let's go back to some of 355 00:13:09,865 --> 00:13:11,164 your your, other, 356 00:13:11,784 --> 00:13:14,845 relationships you've had and things that you've accomplished 357 00:13:15,384 --> 00:13:17,464 as a as a gay man and as 358 00:13:17,464 --> 00:13:20,345 a designer, professionally and personally. Can you jump 359 00:13:20,345 --> 00:13:21,299 into some of those? 360 00:13:22,259 --> 00:13:24,500 You bet. You know, one of the things 361 00:13:24,500 --> 00:13:25,860 I always like to tell everybody is that 362 00:13:25,860 --> 00:13:27,779 they they they said you've had a long 363 00:13:27,779 --> 00:13:29,299 term relationship. And I said, oh, yeah. I've 364 00:13:29,299 --> 00:13:30,360 been in a relationship, 365 00:13:30,820 --> 00:13:33,240 for thirty years, well, with three different people. 366 00:13:34,179 --> 00:13:36,324 I love it. I love it. So, you 367 00:13:36,324 --> 00:13:37,684 know, I had a a ten year, a 368 00:13:37,684 --> 00:13:39,924 ten year, and basically a ten year. And, 369 00:13:40,245 --> 00:13:42,485 you know, I I call it the the, 370 00:13:42,884 --> 00:13:44,804 the love of my youth, the kind of 371 00:13:44,804 --> 00:13:46,644 the love of my career in those growing 372 00:13:46,644 --> 00:13:48,809 years when you're in your 30. And then 373 00:13:50,970 --> 00:13:53,529 the love of adventure and and thinking outside 374 00:13:53,529 --> 00:13:55,610 of the box and have having somebody in 375 00:13:55,610 --> 00:13:57,149 the best way test your limits. 376 00:13:58,009 --> 00:14:00,970 And I learned I learned something about who 377 00:14:00,970 --> 00:14:02,730 I am and myself in each one of 378 00:14:02,730 --> 00:14:04,924 those relationships. So some people would look at 379 00:14:04,924 --> 00:14:07,184 that and say, oh, that's three failed relationships. 380 00:14:07,325 --> 00:14:09,325 I'm like, not at all. They were three 381 00:14:09,325 --> 00:14:11,565 wonderful relationships that that, 382 00:14:12,365 --> 00:14:14,125 you know, I learned so much from, and 383 00:14:14,125 --> 00:14:16,125 I I hope they learn too. And I 384 00:14:16,125 --> 00:14:18,480 learned about myself, and I'm I'm a butt 385 00:14:18,559 --> 00:14:20,480 much better human being for having all three 386 00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:21,379 of those relationships. 387 00:14:21,759 --> 00:14:24,399 I wouldn't be me without them. Absolutely. And 388 00:14:24,399 --> 00:14:25,759 and I knew all three of them and 389 00:14:25,839 --> 00:14:27,759 or know all three of them. Yeah. Yeah. 390 00:14:27,759 --> 00:14:30,240 Absolutely. Yes. And and the growing in in 391 00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:32,240 all of your friends related to that, your 392 00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:34,095 family. Because a lot of times, we like 393 00:14:34,095 --> 00:14:35,534 to put people in a box and say, 394 00:14:35,534 --> 00:14:37,454 oh my gosh. Dan really blew it. You 395 00:14:37,454 --> 00:14:39,214 know? He got married, then he got divorced, 396 00:14:39,214 --> 00:14:40,894 then he got married, then he got divorced, 397 00:14:40,894 --> 00:14:42,254 and and then he got married. And Carol 398 00:14:42,254 --> 00:14:43,534 and I actually got to give you away 399 00:14:43,534 --> 00:14:45,134 at the last one, which was even more 400 00:14:45,134 --> 00:14:47,340 cool. Oh my gosh. That that was so 401 00:14:47,340 --> 00:14:49,660 special. But that journey, it's a journey. It's 402 00:14:49,660 --> 00:14:51,899 a journey. Now professionally, let's talk a little 403 00:14:51,899 --> 00:14:53,519 bit about your design work. 404 00:14:54,539 --> 00:14:56,379 Absolutely. So, you know, again, that's kind of 405 00:14:56,379 --> 00:14:58,779 listening to yourself and listening to others. So, 406 00:14:59,019 --> 00:15:00,299 you know, when I was in school, I 407 00:15:00,299 --> 00:15:01,855 wanted to be an archaeologist, And I was 408 00:15:01,855 --> 00:15:03,634 literally on a plane flight yesterday 409 00:15:04,014 --> 00:15:06,014 talking to a firefighter that was next to 410 00:15:06,014 --> 00:15:06,735 me. And, 411 00:15:07,375 --> 00:15:08,735 she said, well, I'm a firefighter, but I 412 00:15:08,735 --> 00:15:10,254 wanted to be an archaeologist. And I'm like, 413 00:15:10,254 --> 00:15:11,615 well, I'm a designer, but I wanted to 414 00:15:11,615 --> 00:15:12,434 be an archaeologist. 415 00:15:12,815 --> 00:15:15,289 And so, we started having that that conversation 416 00:15:15,750 --> 00:15:17,529 where we actually listened to, 417 00:15:17,910 --> 00:15:20,070 you know, our our person in high school 418 00:15:20,070 --> 00:15:20,730 and college 419 00:15:21,190 --> 00:15:21,690 who 420 00:15:22,149 --> 00:15:23,669 said, you know, no. You don't wanna be 421 00:15:23,669 --> 00:15:25,590 this. You should be doing this. And in 422 00:15:25,590 --> 00:15:27,669 in my circumstance, I was pushed into the 423 00:15:27,669 --> 00:15:29,565 tech world when the tech world was really 424 00:15:29,565 --> 00:15:32,445 kind of first kicking in into gear. And, 425 00:15:32,845 --> 00:15:34,684 you know, that's what my degree was in. 426 00:15:34,684 --> 00:15:36,365 The first nine years of my career were 427 00:15:36,365 --> 00:15:38,125 in that, and I hated every moment of 428 00:15:38,125 --> 00:15:40,539 it. Uh-huh. I watched the clock, and I 429 00:15:40,539 --> 00:15:43,100 I looked for any excuse including working at 430 00:15:43,100 --> 00:15:45,259 that design store to do something else that 431 00:15:45,259 --> 00:15:47,840 was created because what I was doing was 432 00:15:47,899 --> 00:15:51,200 noncreative and soulless and completely unenjoyable. 433 00:15:51,899 --> 00:15:53,740 And as I started to figure out who 434 00:15:53,740 --> 00:15:54,399 I was, 435 00:15:55,075 --> 00:15:56,834 and I then was working for a company 436 00:15:56,834 --> 00:15:59,235 that offered to pay for additional education, I 437 00:15:59,235 --> 00:16:00,375 went back to school 438 00:16:00,995 --> 00:16:03,315 and got my design degree. And compared to 439 00:16:03,315 --> 00:16:05,475 my four year degree, my two year degree 440 00:16:05,475 --> 00:16:07,154 was a breeze. I didn't even feel like 441 00:16:07,154 --> 00:16:08,779 I was studying. I was in my element 442 00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:10,759 doing what I was supposed to do. I 443 00:16:10,759 --> 00:16:12,299 was number one in my class, 444 00:16:12,679 --> 00:16:14,839 and I I I it was so much 445 00:16:14,839 --> 00:16:15,740 fun. I 446 00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:17,720 was the first person to get to class 447 00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:19,639 and the last person to leave. And, 448 00:16:20,434 --> 00:16:21,954 what a difference when you know what you're 449 00:16:21,954 --> 00:16:23,954 supposed to be doing and then you follow 450 00:16:23,954 --> 00:16:25,875 that path. And then coming out of that, 451 00:16:25,875 --> 00:16:27,894 which was in 2002, 452 00:16:28,195 --> 00:16:29,235 I've never looked back. 453 00:16:29,954 --> 00:16:32,855 Everything about my my career has been 454 00:16:33,350 --> 00:16:35,050 so fun and so exciting 455 00:16:35,509 --> 00:16:38,629 and, a life onto its own. Absolutely. Oh 456 00:16:38,629 --> 00:16:40,410 my and and you say in your element. 457 00:16:40,470 --> 00:16:42,149 You know, that's something listeners that we could 458 00:16:42,149 --> 00:16:44,629 all pay attention to, to follow what's in 459 00:16:44,629 --> 00:16:45,370 your heart, 460 00:16:45,714 --> 00:16:48,195 to really find what it is that's in 461 00:16:48,195 --> 00:16:50,355 your element. What are you all about? What's 462 00:16:50,355 --> 00:16:53,154 your purpose? And oftentimes, it's it's a calling 463 00:16:53,154 --> 00:16:55,634 to me. It's a calling. Really, really listening, 464 00:16:55,634 --> 00:16:56,995 and that's what you have done all through 465 00:16:56,995 --> 00:16:58,514 your life, Dan. And I'm so proud of 466 00:16:58,514 --> 00:16:59,811 you for doing that. You know? I'm so 467 00:16:59,811 --> 00:16:59,842 much better at listening now, rather it's listening 468 00:16:59,842 --> 00:16:59,875 to those that are closest to me and, 469 00:16:59,875 --> 00:17:00,455 you know, 470 00:17:01,460 --> 00:17:03,700 listening now, rather it's listening to those that 471 00:17:03,700 --> 00:17:05,460 are closest to me. And, you know, I 472 00:17:05,460 --> 00:17:06,900 have as you know, I have just a 473 00:17:06,900 --> 00:17:09,299 very small core of a family and friends 474 00:17:09,299 --> 00:17:11,539 that, that I hold close, you being one 475 00:17:11,539 --> 00:17:13,460 of those people. Mhmm. And then and then 476 00:17:13,460 --> 00:17:14,519 listening to, 477 00:17:15,025 --> 00:17:17,825 myself and, you know, listening to to Carol 478 00:17:17,825 --> 00:17:19,444 because she still talks to me. 479 00:17:21,345 --> 00:17:23,825 And and listening to, others in my life 480 00:17:23,825 --> 00:17:25,424 that have been very close to me that 481 00:17:25,424 --> 00:17:27,265 are no longer on this planet, but they're 482 00:17:27,265 --> 00:17:29,045 they're out there. And and I'm telling you, 483 00:17:29,265 --> 00:17:31,070 you know, I I I have to be 484 00:17:31,070 --> 00:17:33,150 careful sometimes because I I think they're there 485 00:17:33,150 --> 00:17:34,830 and and and waiting to help out on 486 00:17:34,830 --> 00:17:36,349 things. And I'm like, no. No. No. I 487 00:17:36,349 --> 00:17:37,470 don't I don't I don't need this. I'm 488 00:17:37,470 --> 00:17:39,150 just putting it out there, but, you know, 489 00:17:40,349 --> 00:17:41,869 I'm I'm, you know, I've always been afraid 490 00:17:41,869 --> 00:17:43,070 to ask to win the lottery because I 491 00:17:43,070 --> 00:17:44,474 think I would. And I'm like, but I 492 00:17:44,474 --> 00:17:46,095 don't don't I I mean, no. 493 00:17:47,994 --> 00:17:49,595 You do you do enough for me already, 494 00:17:49,595 --> 00:17:51,434 those that are that are protecting and covering 495 00:17:51,434 --> 00:17:52,795 me. I don't I don't always say, plus, 496 00:17:52,795 --> 00:17:53,914 if I did it, I would just give 497 00:17:53,914 --> 00:17:56,315 it back to, you know, youth in crisis 498 00:17:56,315 --> 00:17:58,980 and and animals anyway. So Right. Right. And 499 00:17:58,980 --> 00:18:00,820 you are so giving. You are so giving. 500 00:18:00,820 --> 00:18:02,420 You know? And and this connection with the 501 00:18:02,420 --> 00:18:04,839 divinity, I think we all need to realize 502 00:18:04,900 --> 00:18:07,859 every single day that we are spiritual beings. 503 00:18:07,859 --> 00:18:10,099 We're not just human beings. We are spiritual 504 00:18:10,099 --> 00:18:12,755 beings, and we can tap into that connection, 505 00:18:12,815 --> 00:18:16,034 that energy, that joy that is all love. 506 00:18:16,095 --> 00:18:18,095 And if you really take that to heart, 507 00:18:18,095 --> 00:18:21,615 no hate, no fear. Just keep following the 508 00:18:21,615 --> 00:18:22,115 divine 509 00:18:22,494 --> 00:18:24,815 calling, following the divine call. So speaking of 510 00:18:24,815 --> 00:18:26,619 that, you led me to, 511 00:18:27,259 --> 00:18:29,419 make making a book called None Better. And 512 00:18:29,419 --> 00:18:32,159 that happened because of a friend named Katherine 513 00:18:32,220 --> 00:18:32,720 Greenspan. 514 00:18:33,099 --> 00:18:34,700 Can you talk a little bit about that, 515 00:18:34,700 --> 00:18:36,640 please? And then the None Better book. 516 00:18:37,819 --> 00:18:39,599 So I have become connected, 517 00:18:39,900 --> 00:18:41,440 in Southern Oregon through, 518 00:18:42,695 --> 00:18:44,535 a program that the Chamber of Commerce puts 519 00:18:44,535 --> 00:18:45,035 on, 520 00:18:45,494 --> 00:18:48,055 to, Catherine and and then a little bit 521 00:18:48,055 --> 00:18:49,515 later to her sister Elizabeth. 522 00:18:50,055 --> 00:18:50,535 And, 523 00:18:51,095 --> 00:18:53,414 just adored them both. One's a year older 524 00:18:53,414 --> 00:18:54,775 than me and one's a year younger than 525 00:18:54,775 --> 00:18:56,134 me, so I always feel I'm the brother 526 00:18:56,134 --> 00:18:57,420 that they never had in between. 527 00:18:58,059 --> 00:19:00,539 And, and and we always we clicked. We 528 00:19:00,539 --> 00:19:03,359 clicked on spirituality. We clicked on humor. 529 00:19:03,820 --> 00:19:05,580 We clicked on food. We just we just 530 00:19:05,580 --> 00:19:07,500 clicked. It was just it was easy. It's 531 00:19:07,500 --> 00:19:09,980 like we we, had known each other. But 532 00:19:09,980 --> 00:19:11,740 then the big click for me is when 533 00:19:11,740 --> 00:19:13,200 their mother came and visited, 534 00:19:13,555 --> 00:19:15,575 and I found out that they had published, 535 00:19:16,115 --> 00:19:17,974 her book. And it was such 536 00:19:18,355 --> 00:19:19,875 you know, it's a small book. It's not 537 00:19:19,875 --> 00:19:20,775 it's not particularly 538 00:19:21,154 --> 00:19:23,234 big in number of pages, but it was 539 00:19:23,234 --> 00:19:24,214 hugely impactful. 540 00:19:24,674 --> 00:19:26,434 And and I've mentioned this before. It's one 541 00:19:26,434 --> 00:19:27,849 of the few books that I've read. I 542 00:19:27,849 --> 00:19:29,210 think I've read it. I'm on my fourth 543 00:19:29,210 --> 00:19:31,049 read on it now. Wow. And that's unusual 544 00:19:31,049 --> 00:19:32,490 for me to to read it, but I 545 00:19:32,490 --> 00:19:34,970 keep getting things out of it every every 546 00:19:34,970 --> 00:19:37,690 time. And when I read it, immediately you 547 00:19:37,690 --> 00:19:40,089 came to mind because I thought there's all 548 00:19:40,089 --> 00:19:41,609 these stories you have inside of you, and 549 00:19:41,609 --> 00:19:43,304 I knew you were dealing with grief at 550 00:19:43,304 --> 00:19:44,984 the time. And I thought maybe what a 551 00:19:44,984 --> 00:19:47,005 wonderful way to move through that grief 552 00:19:47,384 --> 00:19:49,384 would be to to reflect back on these 553 00:19:49,384 --> 00:19:51,784 stories and then start documenting them while they 554 00:19:51,784 --> 00:19:53,784 were kind of fresh and and maybe even 555 00:19:53,784 --> 00:19:55,644 kind of raw at the same time too. 556 00:19:55,890 --> 00:19:57,089 So that they they, 557 00:19:58,450 --> 00:19:59,269 that they had 558 00:20:00,369 --> 00:20:02,210 the the the power behind them that they 559 00:20:02,210 --> 00:20:02,710 needed. 560 00:20:03,250 --> 00:20:05,009 Yes. Yes. You know? And and and with 561 00:20:05,009 --> 00:20:07,009 all that, that led listeners, that led to, 562 00:20:07,250 --> 00:20:08,930 my best selling book called None Better, an 563 00:20:08,930 --> 00:20:11,224 Amazing Love Story, which will be celebrating 564 00:20:11,525 --> 00:20:12,445 March 565 00:20:12,445 --> 00:20:13,365 19 566 00:20:13,365 --> 00:20:15,845 month as a three year anniversary. We're gonna 567 00:20:15,845 --> 00:20:17,285 have a a get together at the Wild 568 00:20:17,285 --> 00:20:19,204 River Pizza here in Brookings, and then we'll 569 00:20:19,204 --> 00:20:20,585 also be doing a Zoom 570 00:20:20,884 --> 00:20:23,285 a Zoom celebration of that that three year 571 00:20:23,285 --> 00:20:24,724 thing. But but I I think what I 572 00:20:24,724 --> 00:20:26,940 wanna go back to, Dan, is is reading 573 00:20:26,940 --> 00:20:27,440 books. 574 00:20:27,740 --> 00:20:29,660 And and you've always been an avid reader. 575 00:20:29,660 --> 00:20:31,660 You always have an open mind. Would you 576 00:20:31,660 --> 00:20:33,980 comment about that for listeners related to who 577 00:20:33,980 --> 00:20:34,640 you are? 578 00:20:35,740 --> 00:20:37,660 Yeah. Absolutely. You know, I think, you know, 579 00:20:37,660 --> 00:20:39,500 for me anyway, there's there's two different types 580 00:20:39,500 --> 00:20:41,424 of of of books, and everybody's different just 581 00:20:41,424 --> 00:20:43,184 like in relationships or anything else in your 582 00:20:43,184 --> 00:20:44,805 life. For me, books are relationships, 583 00:20:45,265 --> 00:20:46,785 and I have two. You know, one is 584 00:20:46,785 --> 00:20:48,325 an escape and that's reading, 585 00:20:48,945 --> 00:20:50,865 you know, something that's fiction that takes me 586 00:20:50,865 --> 00:20:53,525 to another land or another world or fantasy 587 00:20:53,664 --> 00:20:55,609 or, you know, what if books, what if 588 00:20:55,609 --> 00:20:58,569 what if, you know, being gay wasn't wasn't 589 00:20:58,569 --> 00:21:00,650 a negative sometimes, what if being a different 590 00:21:00,650 --> 00:21:01,789 color wasn't a negative, 591 00:21:02,329 --> 00:21:02,829 sometimes. 592 00:21:03,130 --> 00:21:04,730 So I love those what if books and 593 00:21:04,730 --> 00:21:06,490 those types of fiction books. And then the 594 00:21:06,490 --> 00:21:08,169 other books I like, which I read a 595 00:21:08,169 --> 00:21:09,630 lot of, are biographies. 596 00:21:10,065 --> 00:21:11,524 I love biographies 597 00:21:11,984 --> 00:21:14,065 of people that you think you maybe know 598 00:21:14,065 --> 00:21:14,565 in, 599 00:21:15,105 --> 00:21:17,424 media, and then you start reading about their 600 00:21:17,424 --> 00:21:18,865 lives and you find out you don't really 601 00:21:18,865 --> 00:21:20,544 know about them at all. And I also 602 00:21:20,544 --> 00:21:22,565 love reading, now that I'm in my fifties, 603 00:21:23,904 --> 00:21:26,509 reading about people that have become successful in 604 00:21:26,509 --> 00:21:28,750 their fifties Mhmm. And what they've done. And 605 00:21:28,750 --> 00:21:30,589 so when you read about the, you know, 606 00:21:30,589 --> 00:21:32,670 the the Lucy of Walls and the the 607 00:21:32,670 --> 00:21:33,569 Georgia O'Keeffe's 608 00:21:33,950 --> 00:21:35,710 and, you know, I'm I live in New 609 00:21:35,710 --> 00:21:37,950 Mexico now. Georgia O'Keeffe is known for all 610 00:21:37,950 --> 00:21:40,269 of her wonderful artwork and everything that she 611 00:21:40,269 --> 00:21:42,005 she did in Santa Fe. She didn't move 612 00:21:42,005 --> 00:21:43,544 to Santa Fe until she was 50. 613 00:21:43,845 --> 00:21:45,605 You know? And and no one knows about 614 00:21:45,605 --> 00:21:47,044 her life in Texas. I mean, they do, 615 00:21:47,044 --> 00:21:48,404 but no one talks about her life in 616 00:21:48,404 --> 00:21:49,944 Texas and New York and, 617 00:21:50,644 --> 00:21:52,804 what her life what most people think about 618 00:21:52,804 --> 00:21:54,884 is her life from her fifties to her 619 00:21:54,884 --> 00:21:55,384 seventies. 620 00:21:55,845 --> 00:21:58,220 And I think how exciting is that? How 621 00:21:58,220 --> 00:22:00,960 exciting is that, you know, we get to 622 00:22:01,019 --> 00:22:03,019 not necessarily reinvent ourselves, but we get to 623 00:22:03,019 --> 00:22:05,500 look at ourselves in different lights. Yes. And, 624 00:22:05,740 --> 00:22:07,500 it's an exciting time right now. I used 625 00:22:07,500 --> 00:22:08,319 to be so 626 00:22:09,099 --> 00:22:10,559 not not fearful, but, 627 00:22:12,174 --> 00:22:12,674 concerned 628 00:22:13,375 --> 00:22:15,934 about Uh-huh. Life was gonna be at at 629 00:22:15,934 --> 00:22:16,755 50. 630 00:22:16,815 --> 00:22:17,954 And now it's about 631 00:22:18,414 --> 00:22:21,855 new adventures and artistic endeavors and giving back 632 00:22:21,855 --> 00:22:23,394 more than ever and, 633 00:22:23,855 --> 00:22:25,930 and getting to be a little crazy too. 634 00:22:25,930 --> 00:22:27,450 You're it's I think it's okay once you 635 00:22:27,450 --> 00:22:29,769 get into your fifties and past to, you 636 00:22:29,769 --> 00:22:31,690 know, be outside the norm and people like, 637 00:22:31,850 --> 00:22:32,350 whatever. 638 00:22:32,809 --> 00:22:34,970 Right. Right. Right. Right. You know, you know, 639 00:22:34,970 --> 00:22:36,410 and and I guess that brings up a 640 00:22:36,410 --> 00:22:38,654 a a simple question. As a gay man, 641 00:22:38,654 --> 00:22:40,815 did you ever live in that fear and 642 00:22:40,815 --> 00:22:42,434 that doubt within a community? 643 00:22:45,294 --> 00:22:46,734 Yes and no. You know, when I when 644 00:22:46,734 --> 00:22:48,575 I first started my my first career in 645 00:22:48,575 --> 00:22:51,900 tech, I was in, Southern Oregon, and, it 646 00:22:51,900 --> 00:22:53,980 was very different than growing up in Santa 647 00:22:53,980 --> 00:22:54,960 Cruz and Monterey. 648 00:22:55,339 --> 00:22:56,960 And I, definitely 649 00:22:57,419 --> 00:22:57,919 was, 650 00:22:58,539 --> 00:23:00,539 more reserved, I think, in mostly how I 651 00:23:00,539 --> 00:23:02,140 dressed. You know, I I made sure I 652 00:23:02,140 --> 00:23:04,559 was dressed very conservatively. I didn't wear bracelets. 653 00:23:04,619 --> 00:23:06,595 I didn't wear I didn't wear anything that 654 00:23:06,595 --> 00:23:08,214 I thought might, you know, 655 00:23:08,595 --> 00:23:10,595 give away because I was serving some pretty 656 00:23:10,595 --> 00:23:11,335 rural areas. 657 00:23:11,634 --> 00:23:13,634 And, you know, what I've learned in over 658 00:23:13,634 --> 00:23:16,775 the years is, yes, things could happen. 659 00:23:17,154 --> 00:23:18,775 Yes, things do happen. 660 00:23:19,315 --> 00:23:19,589 But, 661 00:23:20,710 --> 00:23:22,950 I don't care anymore, and I've noticed now 662 00:23:22,950 --> 00:23:24,869 that I don't that I don't care that 663 00:23:24,869 --> 00:23:26,789 I've I now worked in I I did 664 00:23:26,789 --> 00:23:28,869 a project in a pretty rural area of 665 00:23:28,869 --> 00:23:30,169 Kentucky last year, 666 00:23:30,710 --> 00:23:32,650 and I was just me. And 667 00:23:33,224 --> 00:23:35,625 the stories that people told me, and it 668 00:23:35,625 --> 00:23:37,865 was I had the best experience, and I 669 00:23:37,865 --> 00:23:39,724 never thought in my life that I would 670 00:23:39,944 --> 00:23:42,184 say I had the best experience in rural 671 00:23:42,184 --> 00:23:44,664 Kentucky. I had the best experience in rural 672 00:23:44,664 --> 00:23:45,164 Kentucky. 673 00:23:46,259 --> 00:23:48,519 So I'm learning that people are people and 674 00:23:48,660 --> 00:23:51,320 just just as we can sometimes be stereotype, 675 00:23:51,619 --> 00:23:53,880 we sometimes do the same thing in reverse. 676 00:23:54,180 --> 00:23:57,400 And by closing closing closing off those doors, 677 00:23:57,460 --> 00:23:59,000 we don't even open the opportunity 678 00:23:59,380 --> 00:24:01,744 for someone to have that discussion about, you 679 00:24:01,744 --> 00:24:04,065 know, themselves or their gay son or their 680 00:24:04,065 --> 00:24:04,805 gay daughter, 681 00:24:05,105 --> 00:24:07,424 and, you know, and how they wish they 682 00:24:07,424 --> 00:24:08,565 could speak to them. 683 00:24:08,945 --> 00:24:11,285 And I I had so many amazing conversations 684 00:24:11,585 --> 00:24:13,664 from people that were actually older than me 685 00:24:13,664 --> 00:24:15,744 that want to know how they could better 686 00:24:15,744 --> 00:24:16,244 connect 687 00:24:16,660 --> 00:24:18,900 with family members that they had that they 688 00:24:18,900 --> 00:24:21,940 felt they had lost because they didn't say 689 00:24:21,940 --> 00:24:24,019 the right thing, so they said nothing. Right. 690 00:24:24,019 --> 00:24:26,420 Right. Oh my gosh. Such valuable tips right 691 00:24:26,420 --> 00:24:28,420 there, everybody. And you may wanna listen to 692 00:24:28,420 --> 00:24:30,194 this one or two or three times because 693 00:24:30,355 --> 00:24:32,115 Dan is just packing this thing in. 694 00:24:32,434 --> 00:24:33,894 You know, people are people. 695 00:24:34,194 --> 00:24:36,194 And I guess I just admire you to 696 00:24:36,194 --> 00:24:38,595 the highest to the highest heavens, Dan. We're 697 00:24:38,595 --> 00:24:40,514 down to just a little bit. Do you 698 00:24:40,514 --> 00:24:43,549 have one or two just quick final comments 699 00:24:43,549 --> 00:24:45,490 you'd like to share with our listeners today? 700 00:24:47,549 --> 00:24:48,049 Sure. 701 00:24:48,509 --> 00:24:50,109 I I think I I mentioned before that 702 00:24:50,109 --> 00:24:50,690 my grandparents, 703 00:24:51,150 --> 00:24:52,210 moved here from, 704 00:24:52,589 --> 00:24:53,490 Northern Spain. 705 00:24:53,789 --> 00:24:55,569 And one of the things that my grandmother 706 00:24:55,630 --> 00:24:58,305 always told me was, it's okay in your 707 00:24:58,305 --> 00:24:59,825 life. We they they moved to The United 708 00:24:59,825 --> 00:25:01,664 States for a reason. It's okay to get, 709 00:25:01,664 --> 00:25:03,744 you know, get get get. That's what America's 710 00:25:03,744 --> 00:25:05,984 about. We get and we, you know, somewhat 711 00:25:05,984 --> 00:25:08,224 materialistic and we we gather things and that's 712 00:25:08,224 --> 00:25:09,984 that's what it is. But I want you 713 00:25:09,984 --> 00:25:11,730 to remember that there's a time in your 714 00:25:11,730 --> 00:25:12,710 life to give. 715 00:25:13,009 --> 00:25:14,769 And if you are at an age where 716 00:25:14,769 --> 00:25:15,990 you can't give financially 717 00:25:16,289 --> 00:25:18,450 and you can you can only give by 718 00:25:18,450 --> 00:25:20,529 volunteer work or doing something else, then that's 719 00:25:20,529 --> 00:25:21,970 how you give back. Awesome. But I also 720 00:25:21,970 --> 00:25:24,210 want you to realize when you have taken 721 00:25:24,210 --> 00:25:26,664 enough in your life and that giving should 722 00:25:26,664 --> 00:25:29,144 be the focus. So that's that's my goal 723 00:25:29,144 --> 00:25:31,384 in my fifties, sixties, and seventies is to 724 00:25:31,384 --> 00:25:34,184 increase the amount that, I give, and I 725 00:25:34,184 --> 00:25:34,684 would, 726 00:25:35,865 --> 00:25:36,605 tell anybody 727 00:25:36,984 --> 00:25:38,984 giving is so much more fulfilling than anything 728 00:25:38,984 --> 00:25:40,299 else you can do in your life. Woo 729 00:25:40,299 --> 00:25:41,980 hoo. I love it. I love it. Oh 730 00:25:41,980 --> 00:25:43,660 my gosh, Dan. This has gone by so 731 00:25:43,660 --> 00:25:44,160 fast. 732 00:25:44,779 --> 00:25:46,859 Okay. Here here we go. All you beautiful 733 00:25:46,859 --> 00:25:48,779 listeners on the gorgeous coast of Southern Oregon 734 00:25:48,779 --> 00:25:51,259 and Northern California and the majestic Rogue Valley, 735 00:25:51,259 --> 00:25:52,859 thank you for being with us today in 736 00:25:52,859 --> 00:25:55,005 a joyously free manner. We hope that you've 737 00:25:55,005 --> 00:25:58,125 been inspired or challenged by Dan's stories and 738 00:25:58,125 --> 00:26:00,545 tips, hopes, loves, joys, and give. 739 00:26:01,085 --> 00:26:02,605 I'm just so excited. If you were here, 740 00:26:02,605 --> 00:26:04,045 I'd be giving you high tens and big 741 00:26:04,045 --> 00:26:05,965 hugs, Dan. That's for sure. Oh, my heart 742 00:26:05,965 --> 00:26:07,105 is just so full. 743 00:26:07,539 --> 00:26:09,160 I I wanna thank you, KCIW, 744 00:26:09,619 --> 00:26:12,339 one hundred point seven FM, the team, Tom 745 00:26:12,339 --> 00:26:14,980 Bozak, Mike Gorse on the sound today, Candice 746 00:26:14,980 --> 00:26:17,059 and Rose for making all this happen. This 747 00:26:17,059 --> 00:26:19,640 is aired in KCIW, KZZH, 748 00:26:20,180 --> 00:26:20,680 KSKQ. 749 00:26:21,220 --> 00:26:23,355 Please share it and relisten to it. Let's 750 00:26:23,355 --> 00:26:24,954 give a shout out to the people that 751 00:26:24,954 --> 00:26:27,515 sponsor, my friends that sponsor this show, Steve 752 00:26:27,515 --> 00:26:30,315 Van Cleve in Alaska, Todd Roy, and Sally 753 00:26:30,315 --> 00:26:32,714 Roy for sponsoring it. So we're gonna look 754 00:26:32,714 --> 00:26:34,795 forward to just great things happening, and you 755 00:26:34,795 --> 00:26:36,549 know the ending, how it always goes. And, 756 00:26:36,549 --> 00:26:38,309 Dan, you've heard this a million times from 757 00:26:38,309 --> 00:26:39,289 Carol and myself. 758 00:26:39,750 --> 00:26:42,250 Smile big and wear bright colors. 759 00:26:42,549 --> 00:26:44,950 Have a great day. Love you, and thank 760 00:26:44,950 --> 00:26:46,009 you, Dan.