Hi, and welcome
w.org,
Brookings, Oregon. Hi to our syndicated listeners at
KZZH
ninety six point seven FM Access Humble, Eureka,
California,
and our special welcome to our new listeners,
k s k q eighty nine point five
FM Ashland and ninety four point one FM
Medford, Oregon.
This is Joyously Free Radio with me, Joni
Lindenmayer, the best selling author of None Better,
an amazing love story and coauthor of Joyously
Free and Healing Religious Hurts. I'm so glad
that you are tuning in today.
I'm a resident of Harbor, Oregon, a retired
high school teacher, a recent author who has
published three books in two years, created an
audiobook, and with friend and film producer Michael
Gorse created a short film called Wowzer. Mike
and I are so excited that it has
been selected and already shown at the LA
Indie Shorts Film Festival. Truly a Wowzer. But
most of all, I love life and love
being the producer and host of this high
energy joyously free radio gadio show so named
by Will and Viv.
This show talks about LGBTQ
plus stories and tips along with religion,
church, faith, spirituality,
and most importantly,
joy, the freedom to spread and to be
your authentic self. Joyously Free was the name
of my second book that I coauthored with
Elizabeth Ann Atkins of 2sisterswriting.com.
In In this radio broadcast, as in my
everyday life, there will be no hate speech,
no hate behaviors, and no bullying. It will
be blasted with the three c's, courage, confidence,
and collaboration.
So together, let's sparkle and seek understanding.
We begin every day with a daily salutation.
I'll say, it's a brand new day, and
your response is, it's never been lived before.
Let's give it a try. It's a brand
new day,
and it's never been lived before. Yahoo. I'm
glad we started our day off right. We
also start every day with a prayer. So
let's open our hearts, and we ask the
divine to shine light on our community and
our world. I excitedly believe in hope and
the power of the spiritual and that Jesus,
god's spirit, whatever name you put on a
higher being, is always with me and always
with you. So be not afraid or troubled,
saddened or depressed.
Joy and peace are an internal expression of
love and harmony that is already within us.
We only have to reach deep within and
let it out. So let's center ourselves.
Take a deep breath in with the good
and out with any doubt.
Again, breathe in through your nose with hope
and out from your mouth with fears.
Last one. Take a big, big deep breath
in with joy
and out with worry or despair.
In the name of mother earth, creator god,
Jesus redeemer, and the blowing winds of the
Holy Spirit, we say, hi. Thank you for
this beautiful, beautiful day.
The quote I have today
came from a funny book of church bulletins.
And I I'm doing this one because the
interview I will be having with Dan, Daniel,
in just a few minutes, I think is
apropos because he is driving in his car.
So here's the quote.
Honk if you love Jesus.
Text while driving if you want to meet
Jesus.
I laugh so hard with that because isn't
that the case? You know, it's so easy
for us in our life that we can
be,
honking and blowing and tooting our horns and
whatever and and saying, hi, Jesus. But at
the same time, we've gotta make sure that
we are safe that we are safe, that
we're surrounded by people that love us, care
for us, that we're in situations that keep
us safe from harm. And and that's what
we try to do. That's what we try
to do. But we always know that Jesus,
God's spirit, whatever name you put on it,
is always there to help and protect us.
So, Lord, thank you for giving me those
wisdoms today. Maybe you can lift up my
friends and my family and all of our
friends and family, helping us to heal,
provide us guidance, and most of all, just
pour on the love to
us. Yes. Thank you very much, Jesus.
So let's move on. We have a special
guest today,
and he's been a friend of mine for
a long time. He is what I call
the interior designer guru of the world.
Oh my gosh. His our topic is gonna
be a blessed gay man. Let me introduce
you everybody to Daniel Perry. Hi, Dan.
Hey, Joanie. Good morning. I think you over
oversold me. Of the world, I don't think
so.
To me, you are. To me, you are.
You've helped decorate my my house many a
time and just my life in general. So
how are you doing today?
I'm doing great. I am driving, like you
said. I'm just outside of Moab,
Utah on my way,
to my home in Santa Fe, New Mexico.
Fantastic. Okay. So you drive safe today. Okay.
We don't want you to meet Jesus and
and head up to heaven yet. There's too
many things that you need to accomplish, I
think. We have too many adventures ahead of
us, so that's not today. Right on. Right
on. God willing. God willing. Yes. For sure.
For sure. Well, Dan, you know, my my
friends on radio here don't really know you.
Can you tell us a little bit about
your background and
when you actually determined and figured out and
came out to yourself as a gay man?
Oh, boy. Such a story. Yes. Yes. How
do I convince that?
You know,
born and raised in Santa Cruz, California.
I'm the child of,
surfer kids. I think they were 17 or
18 when they figured out that I was
on the way
and, grew up with a very Spanish Catholic
family. My grandparents are Mary and Joseph.
And, so, you know, I didn't have a
choice. I'm I'm Daniel Joseph John.
And,
you know, I I don't know if I
ever put a label on it, but, I
grew up in a family with with gay
cousins that, didn't have labels either. We were
all trying to figure things out. So, I
would imagine,
oh gosh, maybe around sixth grade or so,
around 12. You know, I I started to
have an idea of what was going on,
but didn't didn't really put a label on
it until probably after high school. So I
think I took from maybe age 12 to
age 17. I graduated early to kind of
figure out what was, what was going on
with me. And,
still wound up marrying a woman before I
had a relationship with a man. So, you
know, it's I think with everybody, at least
with me, it was a a journey, and
it probably took a big ten or fifteen
years to kind of work through that process.
Right. Right. Oh my and you said you
were married to a woman. And so do
you think that was society pressure? Does do
you think that was just part of your
sexual identity? Where where was that coming from?
Yeah. You know, I think they call it
is it the Kinsey scale? Mhmm. And, you
know, very few people are a 100% straight.
Very few people are a 100% gay. Everybody's
kind of on the scale. But at the
time, I didn't have those resources like we
have now with the Internet and, you know,
our library didn't have those books that helped
me figure out who I was. And so
I thought you always had to be all
of something or all of something else. You
had to be completely gay or completely straight
or you had to be,
completely religious or completely not. I I never
knew there was the in between on any
of those things. Mhmm. And so,
you know, for me, kind of figuring out,
oh, you know, I, I can beat a
relationship with a woman and and and and
it was fine, and and we actually had
a good relationship.
But
but
where was I gonna wait things? And for
me, I would say, you know, maybe it
was like an eighty twenty or seventy five
twenty five, and,
and then I had to be able to
come up terms with myself.
Mhmm. And that that took a little while
to figure out that that was okay. That
I didn't have to be a 100% something
or a 100% something else or I was
broken or wrong. Right. Oh, exactly. And when
you figure that out for your true authenticity
authenticity,
then then it just feels right. That's a
joyously free moment, isn't it?
Absolutely. Well, you were there for it. I
know. When I when I met my first
partner and, you know, it and literally,
you know, it the the doors opened. I
had a a better understanding of who I
was and what I needed in my life.
And as soon as I had that understanding,
I was able to open up those doors
and windows. The person that I needed to
come in came in for the the the
next ten years, and, and it was amazing.
It was it was everything I wanted it
to be. Yes. Yes. You know? And take
us back to that time how you met
myself and my honey, Carol. I think this
is a great story.
Yeah. Absolutely.
I was working at a a design center
in Southern Oregon,
and, you and Carol came in shopping. I
had just started there. I I don't know
if it was my first day or my
first week, but it was it was definitely
the very beginning of my design career. And,
I remember that you came in specifically looking
for a leather sofa,
that you were looking for an Italian leather
sofa,
and and then you threw in the Zinger,
which is you wanted it to be purple.
Yes. And,
and I knew that that was gonna be,
both, you know, expensive and and
difficult to find and,
and that we better get you committed to
it because I didn't know who else we
were gonna resell that purple sofa to. And
luckily,
purple didn't exist, but eggplant existed. And we
found that, purple or, eggplant in a Tootsie
sofa.
And, I remember the, the owner of the
store,
insisted that you paid a 100% because he
wasn't gonna get stuck with it.
And we hit it off right then. You
know? I think I was 26 or 27
years old, so quite a few years ago.
And,
you invited you and Carol invited me, for
dinner to bring dinner over. And,
I, you know, was recently out of college.
I'm not making a whole lot of money.
So,
a free dinner sounded
awesome compared to eating cereal
and ramen.
And and plus and and plus, I was
clicking with you even though I didn't I
didn't know either one of you, and it
wasn't until you came over for dinner, we
started started sharing our stories that,
I I just
I knew he would always be in my
life, and and you always have been. You
bet. You bet. And that that dinner, you
know, what were some of the stories that
we shared that helped you?
You know, one of the things and and,
you know, I've I've I've mentioned this to
you a bunch of times, but not to
everybody listening, is one of my very favorite
things about, Carol was Carol's ability to be
kind and direct.
And, she did it with me over and
over again. I'd start to spin a story
or a a yarn or a tall tale,
and and she would just walk it right
in. Boom. Boom. Boom. But in a very
kind way. And so, you know, one of
my one of my things I was really
dealing with or struggling with was I knew
I wasn't particularly a religious person, but I
was definitely a very spiritual person. And I've
been told over and over again,
in different,
gay community
meetings and groups I tried to join that
you had to be one or the other.
You were either gay or you were spiritual
slash religious, but you couldn't be both. And
I I didn't know how to make that
okay in my head because,
that's the family I grew up with. I
had extremely positive experiences
both in my church and with my family,
both in religion and spiritual.
And I I knew for me that it
wasn't a religious thing. It was a spiritual
thing, but I had to had to come
to those terms of combining those things of
being spiritual and also being gay. And,
literally, Carol said, well, what? Why can't you?
Mhmm. And I thought,
well, all my excuses were gone in one
sentence. Right. Well, why can't who why are
you listening to everybody else? You know? Why
can't why if if you are spiritual and
you are are gay, why can't you people?
And it is literally that simple. And my
my whole life changed in that in that
dinner. And my
and has changed ever since then. And I've
reflected back that and reflected with others
on that and used that same,
way of thinking with other people when they
say things like that. Well, why why why
can't you be?
And it's it's it's amazing when you think,
oh, I don't have to listen to everybody
else. I can
I can I can make this decision? And
I I didn't come from a world where
I made those decisions. I relied on others,
on family and friends to to have their
input and make decisions for me. Mhmm. Never
maybe feeling smart enough
or informed enough. Mhmm. So I always relied
on others and then
based my decisions on their information, and it
really started putting me on a path of
thinking for myself.
Yes. Yes. And and that self talk, that
self esteem that grew from that, you know,
and and I've been a witness of watching
you for the last thirty years that I've
known you, how you've grown spiritually,
religiously,
daily,
all of all of the above. You know?
And and let's go back to some of
your your, other,
relationships you've had and things that you've accomplished
as a as a gay man and as
a designer, professionally and personally. Can you jump
into some of those?
You bet. You know, one of the things
I always like to tell everybody is that
they they they said you've had a long
term relationship. And I said, oh, yeah. I've
been in a relationship,
for thirty years, well, with three different people.
I love it. I love it. So, you
know, I had a a ten year, a
ten year, and basically a ten year. And,
you know, I I call it the the,
the love of my youth, the kind of
the love of my career in those growing
years when you're in your 30. And then
the love of adventure and and thinking outside
of the box and have having somebody in
the best way test your limits.
And I learned I learned something about who
I am and myself in each one of
those relationships. So some people would look at
that and say, oh, that's three failed relationships.
I'm like, not at all. They were three
wonderful relationships that that,
you know, I learned so much from, and
I I hope they learn too. And I
learned about myself, and I'm I'm a butt
much better human being for having all three
of those relationships.
I wouldn't be me without them. Absolutely. And
and I knew all three of them and
or know all three of them. Yeah. Yeah.
Absolutely. Yes. And and the growing in in
all of your friends related to that, your
family. Because a lot of times, we like
to put people in a box and say,
oh my gosh. Dan really blew it. You
know? He got married, then he got divorced,
then he got married, then he got divorced,
and and then he got married. And Carol
and I actually got to give you away
at the last one, which was even more
cool. Oh my gosh. That that was so
special. But that journey, it's a journey. It's
a journey. Now professionally, let's talk a little
bit about your design work.
Absolutely. So, you know, again, that's kind of
listening to yourself and listening to others. So,
you know, when I was in school, I
wanted to be an archaeologist, And I was
literally on a plane flight yesterday
talking to a firefighter that was next to
me. And,
she said, well, I'm a firefighter, but I
wanted to be an archaeologist. And I'm like,
well, I'm a designer, but I wanted to
be an archaeologist.
And so, we started having that that conversation
where we actually listened to,
you know, our our person in high school
and college
who
said, you know, no. You don't wanna be
this. You should be doing this. And in
in my circumstance, I was pushed into the
tech world when the tech world was really
kind of first kicking in into gear. And,
you know, that's what my degree was in.
The first nine years of my career were
in that, and I hated every moment of
it. Uh-huh. I watched the clock, and I
I looked for any excuse including working at
that design store to do something else that
was created because what I was doing was
noncreative and soulless and completely unenjoyable.
And as I started to figure out who
I was,
and I then was working for a company
that offered to pay for additional education, I
went back to school
and got my design degree. And compared to
my four year degree, my two year degree
was a breeze. I didn't even feel like
I was studying. I was in my element
doing what I was supposed to do. I
was number one in my class,
and I I I it was so much
fun. I
was the first person to get to class
and the last person to leave. And,
what a difference when you know what you're
supposed to be doing and then you follow
that path. And then coming out of that,
which was in 2002,
I've never looked back.
Everything about my my career has been
so fun and so exciting
and, a life onto its own. Absolutely. Oh
my and and you say in your element.
You know, that's something listeners that we could
all pay attention to, to follow what's in
your heart,
to really find what it is that's in
your element. What are you all about? What's
your purpose? And oftentimes, it's it's a calling
to me. It's a calling. Really, really listening,
and that's what you have done all through
your life, Dan. And I'm so proud of
you for doing that. You know? I'm so
much better at listening now, rather it's listening
to those that are closest to me and,
you know,
listening now, rather it's listening to those that
are closest to me. And, you know, I
have as you know, I have just a
very small core of a family and friends
that, that I hold close, you being one
of those people. Mhmm. And then and then
listening to,
myself and, you know, listening to to Carol
because she still talks to me.
And and listening to, others in my life
that have been very close to me that
are no longer on this planet, but they're
they're out there. And and I'm telling you,
you know, I I I have to be
careful sometimes because I I think they're there
and and and waiting to help out on
things. And I'm like, no. No. No. I
don't I don't I don't need this. I'm
just putting it out there, but, you know,
I'm I'm, you know, I've always been afraid
to ask to win the lottery because I
think I would. And I'm like, but I
don't don't I I mean, no.
You do you do enough for me already,
those that are that are protecting and covering
me. I don't I don't always say, plus,
if I did it, I would just give
it back to, you know, youth in crisis
and and animals anyway. So Right. Right. And
you are so giving. You are so giving.
You know? And and this connection with the
divinity, I think we all need to realize
every single day that we are spiritual beings.
We're not just human beings. We are spiritual
beings, and we can tap into that connection,
that energy, that joy that is all love.
And if you really take that to heart,
no hate, no fear. Just keep following the
divine
calling, following the divine call. So speaking of
that, you led me to,
make making a book called None Better. And
that happened because of a friend named Katherine
Greenspan.
Can you talk a little bit about that,
please? And then the None Better book.
So I have become connected,
in Southern Oregon through,
a program that the Chamber of Commerce puts
on,
to, Catherine and and then a little bit
later to her sister Elizabeth.
And,
just adored them both. One's a year older
than me and one's a year younger than
me, so I always feel I'm the brother
that they never had in between.
And, and and we always we clicked. We
clicked on spirituality. We clicked on humor.
We clicked on food. We just we just
clicked. It was just it was easy. It's
like we we, had known each other. But
then the big click for me is when
their mother came and visited,
and I found out that they had published,
her book. And it was such
you know, it's a small book. It's not
it's not particularly
big in number of pages, but it was
hugely impactful.
And and I've mentioned this before. It's one
of the few books that I've read. I
think I've read it. I'm on my fourth
read on it now. Wow. And that's unusual
for me to to read it, but I
keep getting things out of it every every
time. And when I read it, immediately you
came to mind because I thought there's all
these stories you have inside of you, and
I knew you were dealing with grief at
the time. And I thought maybe what a
wonderful way to move through that grief
would be to to reflect back on these
stories and then start documenting them while they
were kind of fresh and and maybe even
kind of raw at the same time too.
So that they they,
that they had
the the the power behind them that they
needed.
Yes. Yes. You know? And and and with
all that, that led listeners, that led to,
my best selling book called None Better, an
Amazing Love Story, which will be celebrating
March
19
month as a three year anniversary. We're gonna
have a a get together at the Wild
River Pizza here in Brookings, and then we'll
also be doing a Zoom
a Zoom celebration of that that three year
thing. But but I I think what I
wanna go back to, Dan, is is reading
books.
And and you've always been an avid reader.
You always have an open mind. Would you
comment about that for listeners related to who
you are?
Yeah. Absolutely. You know, I think, you know,
for me anyway, there's there's two different types
of of of books, and everybody's different just
like in relationships or anything else in your
life. For me, books are relationships,
and I have two. You know, one is
an escape and that's reading,
you know, something that's fiction that takes me
to another land or another world or fantasy
or, you know, what if books, what if
what if, you know, being gay wasn't wasn't
a negative sometimes, what if being a different
color wasn't a negative,
sometimes.
So I love those what if books and
those types of fiction books. And then the
other books I like, which I read a
lot of, are biographies.
I love biographies
of people that you think you maybe know
in,
media, and then you start reading about their
lives and you find out you don't really
know about them at all. And I also
love reading, now that I'm in my fifties,
reading about people that have become successful in
their fifties Mhmm. And what they've done. And
so when you read about the, you know,
the the Lucy of Walls and the the
Georgia O'Keeffe's
and, you know, I'm I live in New
Mexico now. Georgia O'Keeffe is known for all
of her wonderful artwork and everything that she
she did in Santa Fe. She didn't move
to Santa Fe until she was 50.
You know? And and no one knows about
her life in Texas. I mean, they do,
but no one talks about her life in
Texas and New York and,
what her life what most people think about
is her life from her fifties to her
seventies.
And I think how exciting is that? How
exciting is that, you know, we get to
not necessarily reinvent ourselves, but we get to
look at ourselves in different lights. Yes. And,
it's an exciting time right now. I used
to be so
not not fearful, but,
concerned
about Uh-huh. Life was gonna be at at
50.
And now it's about
new adventures and artistic endeavors and giving back
more than ever and,
and getting to be a little crazy too.
You're it's I think it's okay once you
get into your fifties and past to, you
know, be outside the norm and people like,
whatever.
Right. Right. Right. Right. You know, you know,
and and I guess that brings up a
a a simple question. As a gay man,
did you ever live in that fear and
that doubt within a community?
Yes and no. You know, when I when
I first started my my first career in
tech, I was in, Southern Oregon, and, it
was very different than growing up in Santa
Cruz and Monterey.
And I, definitely
was,
more reserved, I think, in mostly how I
dressed. You know, I I made sure I
was dressed very conservatively. I didn't wear bracelets.
I didn't wear I didn't wear anything that
I thought might, you know,
give away because I was serving some pretty
rural areas.
And, you know, what I've learned in over
the years is, yes, things could happen.
Yes, things do happen.
But,
I don't care anymore, and I've noticed now
that I don't that I don't care that
I've I now worked in I I did
a project in a pretty rural area of
Kentucky last year,
and I was just me. And
the stories that people told me, and it
was I had the best experience, and I
never thought in my life that I would
say I had the best experience in rural
Kentucky. I had the best experience in rural
Kentucky.
So I'm learning that people are people and
just just as we can sometimes be stereotype,
we sometimes do the same thing in reverse.
And by closing closing closing off those doors,
we don't even open the opportunity
for someone to have that discussion about, you
know, themselves or their gay son or their
gay daughter,
and, you know, and how they wish they
could speak to them.
And I I had so many amazing conversations
from people that were actually older than me
that want to know how they could better
connect
with family members that they had that they
felt they had lost because they didn't say
the right thing, so they said nothing. Right.
Right. Oh my gosh. Such valuable tips right
there, everybody. And you may wanna listen to
this one or two or three times because
Dan is just packing this thing in.
You know, people are people.
And I guess I just admire you to
the highest to the highest heavens, Dan. We're
down to just a little bit. Do you
have one or two just quick final comments
you'd like to share with our listeners today?
Sure.
I I think I I mentioned before that
my grandparents,
moved here from,
Northern Spain.
And one of the things that my grandmother
always told me was, it's okay in your
life. We they they moved to The United
States for a reason. It's okay to get,
you know, get get get. That's what America's
about. We get and we, you know, somewhat
materialistic and we we gather things and that's
that's what it is. But I want you
to remember that there's a time in your
life to give.
And if you are at an age where
you can't give financially
and you can you can only give by
volunteer work or doing something else, then that's
how you give back. Awesome. But I also
want you to realize when you have taken
enough in your life and that giving should
be the focus. So that's that's my goal
in my fifties, sixties, and seventies is to
increase the amount that, I give, and I
would,
tell anybody
giving is so much more fulfilling than anything
else you can do in your life. Woo
hoo. I love it. I love it. Oh
my gosh, Dan. This has gone by so
fast.
Okay. Here here we go. All you beautiful
listeners on the gorgeous coast of Southern Oregon
and Northern California and the majestic Rogue Valley,
thank you for being with us today in
a joyously free manner. We hope that you've
been inspired or challenged by Dan's stories and
tips, hopes, loves, joys, and give.
I'm just so excited. If you were here,
I'd be giving you high tens and big
hugs, Dan. That's for sure. Oh, my heart
is just so full.
I I wanna thank you, KCIW,
one hundred point seven FM, the team, Tom
Bozak, Mike Gorse on the sound today, Candice
and Rose for making all this happen. This
is aired in KCIW, KZZH,
KSKQ.
Please share it and relisten to it. Let's
give a shout out to the people that
sponsor, my friends that sponsor this show, Steve
Van Cleve in Alaska, Todd Roy, and Sally
Roy for sponsoring it. So we're gonna look
forward to just great things happening, and you
know the ending, how it always goes. And,
Dan, you've heard this a million times from
Carol and myself.
Smile big and wear bright colors.
Have a great day. Love you, and thank
you, Dan.