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Announcer: This is a Getty
Podcast.

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[Theme music begins]

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Hi, I'm Lilit Sadoyan,
the host of OMMM

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Our Museum Mindfulness
Meditation podcast, Getty’s

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first video podcast.

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Welcome to this deeper dive,
where we explore the themes

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of our weekly episodes
with experts in everything

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from paintings conservation
to mountain climbing.

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Devi Ormond: I just felt like
I had been transported back

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in 130 years ago into the
body of this enorm—you know,

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incredibly talented artist.

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Sadoyan: This week, we
did a sensory awareness

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meditation focused on
Vincent van Gogh’s Irises.

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I spoke with Getty conservator
Devi Ormond about her

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experiences studying this work
and her trip to the asylum

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where Van Gogh painted it.

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Now let’s dive in.

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Devi, could you please
tell us briefly about what

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you do as a conservator?

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Ormond: Yes, as a
conservator, um, we have

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the absolute privilege of
being able to touch art.

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We—Our job essentially is to
take care of the artwork so

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that it can be appreciated
for generations to come,

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which involves sometimes
treating that painting, and in

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order to treat the painting,
we need to understand the

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materials on the painting
and really to understand the

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artist, how he painted it.

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So that all sort of encompasses
what a conservator does.

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So there’s that
element of research and

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practical work as well.

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Sadoyan: And sometimes you don’t
just look at a painting, but you

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can also see through it, right?

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Ormond: Absolutely.

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There’s so many techniques
that we can use that allow us

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to really, really deep dive,
deep, deep down, beyond, right

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through, [Sadayan laughs] and
it’s amazing what technology is

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doing nowadays, that’s helping
us identify certain materials

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that artists were using.

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So it’s an exciting time.

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Sadoyan: In the meditation
for this week, we focused on

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sensory awareness inspired by
Irises by Vincent van Gogh,

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or Vincent van Gogh as his
name is [pronounced] in Dutch.

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In this episode, we are
diving deeper into what

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it means to be present.

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Devi, you had the great
privilege of visiting

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the St. Paul Asylum in
Saint-Rémy-de-Provence, where

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Vincent van Gogh spent time
and where he painted Irises.

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What brought you there?

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Ormond: Very good question.

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Something that was very teeny
tiny, would you believe it?

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Something that we found
in the paint of Irises.

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Uh, we weren’t quite sure
what it was, whether it was

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an insect or perhaps something
to do with plant material.

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But we were curious about it.

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We had the wonderful opportunity
to study Irises very closely,

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along with the scientist and
curator, really examining every

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square inch of the painting.

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And we came across a small
little piece of plant

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material, we thought, and
we decided to pursue it.

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And thank goodness that we
did, because it was that small

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little piece of plant material
that brought us to the garden.

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I was given the contact
details of the current

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director of the clinic now
in Saint-Paul-de-Mausole

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in Saint-Rémy, Dr. Boulon,
and I phoned him up and

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I asked if I could speak
to the gardener because I

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was very interested in the
garden that Van Gogh painted.

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And he said that the garden
hadn’t changed in hundreds of

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years, and that I should come
and find out for myself what

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this plant material would be.

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So that was definitely
an invitation I

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could not say no to.

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Sadoyan: [laughs]
Definitely not.

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And what was the plant material?

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What did you discover?

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Ormond: Oh, so when, when we
got there, first of all, we

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were just struck by this—this
overwhelming sense of

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tranquility, you know, once we
got behind these tall walls.

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And when you look down at
the ground, these tiny little

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pollen cones were everywhere.

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And the pollen cones come
from the umbrella pine

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tree, which is indigenous
to that part of the country.

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And these tiny little brown
pollen cones were everywhere,

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very fragile, and they
looked exactly like what we

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were finding in the paint.

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So there was a wonderful moment
where I’m actually down on the

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ground with an enlarged image
of this plant material that we

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found and sort of comparing what
I’m seeing on the ground with

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what we saw in the painting.

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And it was a real sense
of, um—yeah, he, this

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is where he painted it.

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So we got a really acute
sense of location, which

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felt very, very intimate.

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Sadoyan: Incredible.

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And you mentioned you were able
to get down low to the ground.

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Were you also able to find
or identify a similar patch

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of irises while there?

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Ormond: Yes, and I think
that’s, again, one of the

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most extraordinary things,
and it really came from

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Vincent van Gogh himself.

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He wrote in his letter to
his brother Theo that the day

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after he arrived, he started
painting two paintings.

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One was called The Lilac Bush,
and the other is called Irises.

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The I—The Lilac Bush painting
is currently in St. Petersburg,

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and it depicts a sort of a
mound of, uh, yeah, I could

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call it a mound, and there’s
lilac trees coming out in sort

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of full bloom in pink, and then
at the base of this mound, you

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see a sort of a little patch
of purple irises, and that is

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something that we saw in—in one
of the corners of the garden.

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And you—again, you’re just,
it’s like quite extraordinary

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that, you know, here he was
actually painting what he

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saw and not what he felt but
what was in front of him.

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And then to be able to sort
of look down on the ground

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and see that how he painted
what I originally thought

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was, was, you know, either
soil or, um, some sort of dirt

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material on the ground, but
in fact, it’s dead leaves.

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And to be able to see that
and kind of reevaluate how I

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had seen the painting before
was just extraordinary.

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And then sort of to be down
there on that level and looking

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up at these beautiful irises
and seeing how the light changes

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in the petals, the different
greens on the leaves, you know,

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those lovely, those lovely
little yellow flowers in the

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background of the painting,
you could see those, and it

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just all began to make sense
that here he was painting what

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he saw, not what he imagined.

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He was actually in that
garden, more than likely

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sitting in that spot.

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So that was… God, it,
it was, it was really

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overwhelming, and it’s hard
to find the word to describe.

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I just felt like I had been
transported back in 130

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years ago into the—the body
of, of this enorm—you know,

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incredibly talented artist.

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Sadoyan: Wow, that
sounds fascinating.

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And, you know, just to
imagine that your embodied

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experience really informed your
understanding of the painting,

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deepened your understanding
of the artist, too.

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What would you say the
artist or an artist gains

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from painting outdoors, from
being physically present in

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a landscape while they’re
trying to capture it on canvas?

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Ormond: Well, I think, you
know, you’re talking about

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sensory experiences, and I
think one of the things that

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we can’t capture in painting is
that sense of sound or smell.

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And sitting in that garden, you
know, you have the wind blowing,

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you have it blowing through the
leaves of the irises, so you

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get this incredible movement
that he captures so beautifully.

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You hear the birds singing.

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You—you smell the
flora and the fauna.

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And it’s not just being in
a studio smelling turpentine

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or oils from the paint.

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You know, you’re, you’re out
in the open, in the fresh air.

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And nature gave
Vincent such solace.

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You know, he, what he had
gone through in the months

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prior to coming to the
asylum were extraordinarily

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frightening for him, and you
get this sense that he feels

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invigorated and necessary
and that he does belong.

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He does belong, and this
is where he belongs.

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So again, there’s that sense
of, of hope that really just

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emanates from the painting.

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And vitality and, you know,
appreciation of beauty and, and,

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uh, the smells and the sounds,
everything that was encompassing

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him as he was painting this.

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And I think that's something
that you miss, and it’s

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something that I had, again,
the privilege to experience

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sitting there myself.

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I don’t know if that was
the case for Vincent or any

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artist that paints outside,
but that’s certainly how I

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was feeling when I was there.

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Sadoyan: Beautiful.

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I mean, it sounds like you
were physically being present

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in the, the same places where
Van Gogh lived and worked

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really left an impact on you.

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Ormond: It’s being in the
environment in which this

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masterpiece was painted

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more than likely sitting in the
same area as he was 130 years

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ago, listening to the birds,
the wind, the mistral wind, it

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was the season, so it was also
a little bit chilly, um, through

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the trees, through the leaves.

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It, it just was a
moment of real calm.

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And you know they talk
about pantheism and

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religion in nature.

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You could really get the
sense of, of something

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bigger happening and, and
it was all-encompassing.

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Sadoyan: Well, it sounds
sensational, and I hope that

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our listeners and viewers have
a chance to come and see this

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spectacular work of art at
the Getty, Van Gogh’s Irises.

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Devi, thank you so much
for sharing your experience

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with being at the location
where Van Gogh was when

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he painted this work.

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Ormond: My absolute pleasure.

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Thank you, Lilit.

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[Theme song begins]

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Sadoyan: To find the related
meditation and see images,

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transcripts, and additional
resources, visit our

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website at getty.edu/ommm.

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That’s oh-em-em-em.

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This episode was produced by
Zoe Goldman and Gideon Brower.

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Mixing and sound
design by Jaime Roque.

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Christopher Sprinkle
is executive producer.

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[Music fades]