Welcome back to Live It Out a podcast.
We are in a new series called Christmas
Presents,
and this is week one. Hey, Tim. How
are you? I'm good, Dave. How are you
doing? I'm good. And this week, we have
somebody with us, and I wanna give you
guys a clue of who we have. Here's
the clue. Oh, brah. It's just like, dude,
you got the best barrels ever, dude. Just
like you pull in, and you just get
spit right out of them. You just drop
in and just smack the lip. Go back.
Drop the excess soap.
Alright. And that should be enough. That should
be enough. Dave Nichols. Dave Nichols. Yeah. What
Nichols. All the way from
Welcome. He's Cinco.
Yeah. Formerly of Southern California. Formerly. Yeah. That's
good. You're surfing. Days. Or a time ago.
Yeah. At this point. Did you were you
you weren't a surfer, were you?
Not really. Okay. He's a baseball player. Yeah.
Body surfed. Okay. Probably more than anything. Yeah.
Catch the layup. Some people call it boogie
boarding. Yeah. But if you're in the biz,
you call it body boarding.
Bodyboarding? Yeah. You don't wanna call it boogie
boarding. People from The Netherlands call it boogie
boarding. Yeah. Yeah. Like little kids. When they're
on vacation. But when you get into it
Yeah. It's body boarding. Dude, I'm smarter today
because of that. You're welcome. Find out like
you really are. You really are from Tennessee
now because the story you told this weekend,
you have a
a UT dog.
So that makes you officially a a Tennessean.
You know what? And I just I just
read this morning, so I have a blue
tic hound. And I just read Smokey eleven,
the current one. He was nervous. Yeah. He
couldn't handle it. Really? Yeah. So I'm like,
does that mean there's a spot open? You've
got a chance. I looked at Roscoe, and
I said, Roscoe,
it's your shot, buddy.
Yeah. It was his brother was the previous
version,
and then they had him, and he just
couldn't adapt. Yeah. Really? Yeah. They said his
temperament is too reserved,
and so running out in front of a
100,000 people probably is a different was too
loud. Uh-huh. He couldn't handle it. Yep. That's
crazy.
Alright. Hey. So we're getting in. We just
wanna embrace the idea that this is
it sounds our podcast is, like lunch with
with the fellas, but not really. Really, the
the goal of the podcast is, hey, what's
it look like for us to put this
stuff into motion? And so this weekend,
hey, we're starting this weekend, we kicked off.
It's the march to Christmas. And so I
wanna start with just a a very personal
question.
Are you a Christmas person? Are you a
Christmas guy?
Dave?
Are are you a Christmas guy? I am.
Alright. Yeah. So so what does that mean
for you?
For me, it's like I've always loved it.
And I think
too often, especially when I was little, I
had too high of expectations.
Mhmm. You know? Mhmm. Like, oh, man. I'm
gonna
I'm gonna get all this stuff. And it's
like, yeah.
I got some and it was cool. But
one year,
we got a computer.
Yeah. A March.
Uh-huh. And Mhmm. I was so disappointed. Oh.
Because I was, like, 10. Mhmm. Uh-huh. And
I wanted, like, fun things. I didn't wanna
sit and play Oregon Trail. Yeah. It was
like, then it was like,
Oregon Trail. Word processor.
Yeah. I had the I learned to type
on Mavis Beacon Teaches Typing. Nice. Do you
remember that? Maybe not. I No. I learned
You probably learned how to type I learned
on a typewriter.
Yeah. I've read about those. I tell you
what, it was
yeah. Yeah. We're about I'm ten years older
than you are. But,
yeah, to type in class at the time,
it was like, this is so silly. Why?
Why? We're never gonna need this. I'm telling
you, man. The best
skill I ever learned was actually tight. Sometimes
I'm amazed myself.
I'm like,
this is kind of amazing. My fingers just
know where to go on this team. Know
what to do. Yeah. It's a s d
f g h a k l, semicolon. That
was a big thing to learn. Yeah.
So, Tim, how about you? Are you a
Christmas person? Listen, Christmas guys fall a spectrum.
Yeah. They they are. But but you're from
a long line of preacher people. You should
really be a Christmas person. That should make
me a new stereotype. That should make me
a Christmas person.
Or it could go or it could go
the complete opposite. Yeah. We don't know. Facts.
Yeah.
I maybe I'm less of one than I
was when I was a kid. I feel
like I was so I when I was
a kid, I was so into Christmas traditions,
and everything needed to be the same every
year.
And then by the time, you know, I
was the youngest, my brothers moved away, and
then I did. And so it kinda I
was like, well, the traditions are all dead.
But we've built new ones as a family.
And so I would say I'm a Christmas
guy. I'll I mean
but I am not it's because I'm a
Christmas guy that I don't decorate early. I
don't start listening to Christmas music early because
you gotta savor the flavor. You gotta
have it
set aside
for
the Christmas season.
When does that begin?
For me,
I mean, it's acceptable anytime after Thanksgiving. Alright.
Fair enough. But I really like to get
to December 1. Fair enough. Yeah. Then we're
in. Yeah. We're we're we're we're marching towards
it. Yeah.
So,
yeah. Me, not not so much. I probably
shared that on here before. I'm I'm I'm
not a Christmas guy,
and I feel like my my kids maybe
they get gypped a little bit because of
it. I feel like my family gets gypped
a little bit because of it. Now now
I'm not saying that, like, I'm not like,
they don't get me wrong. They've never, like,
not had They've never lacked. They've never lacked.
There's no doubt about that. But, however,
I'm just yeah. I and I probably need
counseling because of it for there's probably something
deep seated there. Or your kids do. Exactly
too. Or both. I've already I've said this
probably too. Like, they both do six sessions
for my parenting faux pas.
But in the midst of all that, I
I don't know. You know? Maybe it's because
I got I I I think it was
last year I told the story about getting
peanuts one year, and maybe it's because I
got peanuts. I kinda like, let me scarred.
Maybe Christmas wasn't so fun anymore. Yeah. No.
But maybe Like Charlie Brown on Halloween. I
gotta rock. It's not because my parents didn't
do a great job. Yeah. My parents did
a great job. I mean, there was, like
yeah. Anyway,
they they and it's not like they they
didn't go over the top with it, but
they didn't. Yeah. I mean, I I don't
care any any wounds for my parents specifically,
so I wonder what that's all about. You
just said you needed counseling. So there's some
wound in there somewhere. No. That's what I'm
saying, but it's not for my parents. It
doesn't know where it's from. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
Fair enough. I don't know. All I have
to say, hey, we're talking this year, this
this series is about the true gift, which
is God with us. That's that's the gift
of Christmas.
And, that's that's our theme. And we're gonna
be going through some Old Testament text, some
new testament text. And this past weekend,
Dave, you had us in Exodus, and we're
talking about how Jesus' presence is the ultimate
gift that guides us and gives us rest.
So,
as you think about God's presence, at what
point in your life did you did you
start to pivot and go, woah, this isn't
really about the rules.
This is about me living from a place
of being present with Jesus himself.
Or have you? I know when. I think
I've talked about it before. I read a
book when I was just out of college,
and that's
when I went for it wasn't that
I thought it was only about following rules,
but I thought the rules were kind of
what mattered. I don't like like,
I didn't think I could earn God's love
by following the rules, but I didn't know
how else I could interact with God than
follow rules.
Like what other
relationship can we have? You make rules.
I try to follow them and fail at
it. That's the nature of our relationship. That's
that was the that was the, I think,
the total for me,
up to that point. And so then,
yeah, it was a big moment to go,
wait a second. Relationship means relationship,
and God is here, and he's not going
anywhere.
So you can actually
have a relationship because he's present, you know.
So that was a, I mean, that was,
in some ways, the turning point in my
relationship with Jesus.
I think that is probably pretty common in
the story of following Jesus. Yeah. Where it's
like, how do I relate to this God
that I can't see?
So rules are right there. And so we
don't
we don't drink. We don't smoke. We don't
go with girls who do, you know, kinda
thing. And so then I either do it
or don't.
And I know this is not a great
analogy, but I think parenting actually changed some
of my perspective.
And,
even when my kids disobey my rules, the
relationship doesn't stop. Yeah. That's a good question.
Where yeah. Yeah. But I mean, it's it's
it was one of those things where it's
like,
yeah.
Just because they didn't my kids didn't do
what I wanted them to do or whatever,
I'm
I don't stop loving them. I don't stop
relationship. And I think that was when,
you know, in that journey, that was another
kinda turning point of going, oh,
yeah, God. Just because I didn't obey a
rule or I messed up or I
it doesn't break relationship. Uh-huh. Yeah. So
Yeah.
I I think for me, like,
I think you said, David, I think it's
it's common for a lot of experiences. And
for me, it was there was this movement,
and I hear people talking about a personal
relationship with Jesus. And then I'm like, okay,
Jesus is a real person. And so what's
that look like for me to interact with
him?
But if I think about, like like, some
specific moments and I don't have
I do not have a great memory around
a lot of things. In fact, my wife
will often be like, hey, you remember this
or hey, you remember that? I'm like, I
no, I don't. Or Todd Michelson, we were
on staff before the church before Two Rivers.
Mhmm. You know, so it's, like, fifteen, sixteen
years ago. And he's like, hey. Do you
remember when you and at that point, he
could make up anything because I remember nothing.
I have no idea what he's talking about.
I'm like, I don't remember that at all.
How do you? But but there's a couple
moments where I remember. I was actually already
I was pastoring a church in Texas,
and there's a couple things in that that
stand out. There's a lot of horrifying moments
in that and,
because god is gracious, I still get to
do this for a living, and and I
just I messed up a lot.
All that to say,
there was a couple times there's a couple
times that stand out where it was things
that seemed people would think were totally insignificant.
But in that moment, God reminded me just
how how really was. And I think I've
told one of them before about being underneath
the sink in the in the parsonage,
of this church and, you know, trying to
fix the sink and, not having to call
the the church maintenance guy to do it
and and being like, god, you could you
could back that nut right off of that
thing if you wanted to because the tool
didn't fit up there right. It was really
tight space,
and I couldn't get it. I couldn't get
it. I couldn't get it. And I was
so just frustrated and
and, frustrated probably to the point of almost
tears. Like, just you've got to be kidding
me. How can I not figure this out?
And I and I literally paused and I
was like, I could even pray about this.
It seems like such a stupid thing to
pray about in in my mind and logically.
And it was like, okay. God, you could
literally back that thing off if you wanted
to.
And,
I went back and the thing was loose.
And it was crazy. And then there was
another time I had lost my wallet and
I was praying.
And,
I don't know. I just felt like I
was supposed to go in the yard. And
I literally walk into my yard. Why was
my wallet in my I still don't know
to this day why the wallet was in
the yard. But I literally walk into the
yard and I looked down and there it
is. And I pick it up. And I
was like, okay.
So surely, if you care about these little
things and letting you know you're real, that
there's other things along the way. And so
I I think that's one of the reasons
why I'm I'm really glad to be a
part of a church like Two Rivers. It's
because it's not just the Bible says Jesus
is real. We also go towards
the experience that Jesus is real. And I
think this Christmas, really what we're encouraging
families to do and through the Live It
Out guide is to be present with one
another
and to experiment with things and prove that
that God is real. So, Tim, talk a
little bit about our structure this week in
that
it's always intended that it should be something
that you could
adapt and use in conversation with other followers
of Christ or
even
with, your kids. Yeah. But we've tried to
make this Christmas
especially that way. Yeah. So yeah. So,
we do always try and have it. You
know, certainly that a high schooler could pick
up Live It Out and and work through
it. And,
and then you could have you could talk
about some of those things as a family.
And,
in this series, we're just trying to be
really deliberate about saying, okay. Middle schoolers, high
schoolers, we wanna write questions that are con
you know, concrete enough and
clear enough, I guess, that, a a middle
schooler could could pick this up and do
and do it. And so we hope that
they will. And maybe for some, it'll start
a new habit. And, so I'm interested in
what in how that works for people. So
they might notice a change in the questions
during this series that they might feel a
little more, you know, just a little more
concrete.
But that might be good for everybody, not
just for the middle schoolers and high schoolers
in our church. And then,
and and and, again, just to be clear,
the reason for that is not so that
a family would sit down and go, let's
do Live It Out together. Yeah. Let's do
devotions. Right. Yeah. It's not written as a
family devotional,
but it's a
it's a discipleship guide for individuals with the
idea that the reason
a whole family would do it or a
whole church does it is so that we're
all
we're all kinda in the same swimming in
the same water
in our time,
with
in the word with God. And so then
we can have some conversations about that. So
that's my hope is that families would,
and friends and roommates would go, hey. You
know, I I read this. I was thinking
about this because of Live It Out, and
to even be able to do that with
your kids. And then over the next not
it's not in this week, but in the
next three weeks, the three weeks leading up
to Christmas,
we'll have some,
some tangible little act each week, one kind
of activity that a family or group of
friends can do to kinda be present in
their community,
as we move towards Christmas. That's awesome. Alright.
So this weekend, we were in Exodus.
We were looking at
the significance of God's presence going with the
children of Israel, in particular.
And,
we talked about this idea that, God has
always wanted to dwell with his people. That's
kind of the point of
the story in general. And so,
as as we get started, actually, it only
it only took us fifteen minutes in this
podcast to actually talk about the text.
So in that,
David, is there anything you're like, hey, these
are some of the things that this weekend,
I didn't really get a chance to to
go as far. I mean, there's only so
far you can go in thirty five minutes
with a with a text that that is
pretty significant and Yeah. In size, anyway. Yeah.
Significant in size. How do you yeah. Is
there anything that you're like, okay. Here here
are a couple things, man. I didn't get
to to go as far as I wanted
to, or I I didn't even really maybe
get to touch.
Yeah. I mean, there's there's a lot in
this passage, especially when you look at the
context of the passage and you think about
the book of Exodus as a whole.
So there's a lot that you can't,
that built up
to get to the point of where we're
at. Yeah. You know what I mean? Right.
And so, we can't go into all of
that, but,
I mean, you can look at the transformation
of Moses through,
the book of Exodus,
and which is pretty incredible, and we'll hit
on that just a little bit. But to
go from Exodus three,
where God is promising his presence over and
over and over again, and Moses goes,
not good enough.
And God's like, well, alright, I'll send Aaron.
And he's like, okay, I'll go.
To a point where we are in Exodus
33 where
Moses refuses to go if God doesn't go.
So his presence
God didn't change.
It was Moses' heart that changed as he
spent time with him. But and even even
being reminded as just looking at
Christmas season and looking at the scripture as
a whole.
I mean, just a reminder that
the overarching story of the Bible seems to
be God dwelling with his people.
Like, that's his pursuit. That's what he does.
He he dwells with them in Eden.
That relationship's broken.
And after that, it is the reuniting
of heaven and earth. It's a reuniting
of an Eden place where God dwells with
his people. And you just see it
run through the story line of scripture from
a tabernacle
that we see starting to dwell in
in Exodus where God is going on moving
in. And,
then they get to the promised land and
gets more of a permanent home that Solomon
builds for them.
Then we have Jesus, Emmanuel,
God physically dwelling with his people.
Then we get to the book of John
and Jesus starts telling his disciples, like, hey,
it's better that I leave. Because if I
leave, I'm gonna send my helper. My Holy
Spirit's gonna be with you. So
he still remains with us and Jesus promises,
I'm I'm coming back and
I'm gonna be with you. And so
this presence is
in some ways, you could you could make
a good argument that that's the story of
the Bible.
Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah. And I hope that
you know, like, even as we were writing
Live It Out for this week, it was
like, well, how much of Exodus do we
read? Because you could go it's actually I
mean, hopefully people will I'm hoping that people
either remember some from when we were in
Exodus, whenever that was, Yeah. Or that just
there
you know, like, for me, it was like,
oh, I gotta go back and read a
little bit further back in in this leading
up to this point,
because it really is you're right. It's this
whole
Jesus
God isn't just getting the the Israelites out
of Egypt just so they
don't have to be slaves anymore. Mhmm. He
wants them to live in his presence. And
Yeah. That's Yeah. What he's been working at.
And it's amazing, like right before the Exodus
33 passage,
God makes a covenant with them.
And the people are crying out, they're like,
we're all in. He's like, I'm moving in.
And he's like, you're gonna make
a dwell I you're gonna make a dwelling,
a tent that's that's mobile, and I'm gonna
give you the instructions for this. I'm gonna
be your god, and you're gonna be my
people. And they're it's almost like they cheer.
They're like, Yeah! Let's do it! We're in!
Yeah, they do. That's what they're doing. And
then
Moses goes up the mountain,
and he's on top of the mountain, and
it talks about that smoke and fire on
the top of the mountain.
So, the people can see this,
and then they're like, Well, Moses is probably
dead,
so let's build a calf.
So, I mean, they went from
in a very I mean, how long were
they at Sinai? A year, I think, overall.
So, we don't know how long a gap
they made this covenant to. Yeah. Like,
well, Moses is probably dead,
but not that long, and God's presence is
still pretty visible.
And they're like, hey, let's build a calf
because he's gone. It reminds me. I mean,
like, we're how much I am, we are
like the Israelites. You know, just a few
weeks ago at Quiet Waters when we were
talking about, that theme kinda came up of
saying, oh, I I, you know, I wanna
I
wanna go the way of Jesus, but I
also wanna keep one foot Yeah. On my
own path. Kind of this split kingdom thing.
Yeah. One foot in each camp. And
that's like, Yeah. It's just how easy it
is to be like Israel and go,
yes. God's way is the best. I'm in.
I wanna go his way. I wanna follow
him. Well, but in this particular situation, I
need to just Yeah. I need to cover
things with a little more But a calf
is pretty cool too. Right. Just to make
sure my bases are covered. Well, and it's
sometimes easy to look at something like that
and go, man, those Israelites are so dumb.
I would never
like, if I was in that situation, I
would just
and it's like,
no. I mean, we have the Holy Spirit
in us, which is actually better than God
on top of a mountain. Yeah.
And, how often do we do that? Like,
I'm in. Yeah. I'm in. Oh, but that's
pretty shiny and cool, and I'm gonna go
after that too. Is that part of that
idea you think of
of rest? Is that like, okay,
if I
will just believe that God is present like
he says he is, then I don't have
to
Yeah. You know, I mean, I think there
was some panic in
making that golden calf, you know? Like, oh,
he's he's not here. Moses isn't here. We're
in trouble. We gotta figure something out. We
gotta have something.
Yeah. But
Yeah.
I think
yeah. In particular, I mean, the golden calf
one is is interesting because
it's,
here's your god. Like like, we know we're
following a god, and all the gods have
a a physical representation.
All the gods that the children of Israel
had known up to that point in their
world,
would have been
a physical representation. I mean, they just came
from Egypt that had
a boatload of them. Yeah. Yeah. And so,
I think for the big thing, I think
for the majority of us, we were raised
to believe
that there's
one God, which is true. That's a fact.
But then the idea that there would be
other the other gods are all fake and
false. True. Factual.
But
but probably
not factual in the way we're communicating. We
really don't understand
that that the children of Israel were surrounded
by a group of people who
they never thought that the representation of the
god was the god.
Like, that I grossly misunderstood that. Right? Like
It's an inhabitation
place. Yeah. Like, I make the thing, and
then it's a it's a representation of the
thing in my life, and it becomes inhabited.
But the god isn't it, and it doesn't
live there. And to understand that they knew
that those gods were spiritual beings,
and they just gave them different different
acknowledgment than we we do. And and all
of a sudden when you grasp that, you're
like, the golden calf isn't as crazy as
it seems
because
here's the physical representation of your god. Of
course, you would do that. Here it is.
And it's interesting. I threw it in the
fire. Out came this calf.
And and to realize that we've done something
now that has has broken the relational
agreement.
And the other thing is is we think,
like,
this well, now they need the sacrificial system,
and they just keep messing it up. And
so how do we see that at the
middle of God's story, it's all been about
them, what you said this weekend, Dave,
seeking
God's presence. And then at the very middle
of it, you said that the Mount Sinai
is a year, and that's called the book
of Leviticus. Mhmm. It's that year
where at the center of that book is
the day of atonement,
which is all about maintaining
God's presence at the center of God's community.
Mhmm. And when you get that, like, we
were told Leviticus is irrelevant. And this year,
we, you know, we went through that
last a year ago, over a year ago,
that it's always been about maintaining God's presence
in the middle of his people.
And that hasn't changed. And when you get
to
Galatians,
Paul actually ties it in there, and we
studied that too.
Like, at the end of the day, Christ
has come.
It says in chapter three, Christ redeemed us
from the curse of the law by becoming
a curse for us. For it is written,
cursed is everyone who is hanged on a
tree,
so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of
Abraham
might come to the nations. Mhmm. And I
would encourage you, every time you see the
word Gentiles in your New Testament, say nations.
So that we might receive
the promised spirit
through faith.
That it's always been about
that we are the holy dwelling of God.
And Christmas is an incredible
reminder as we celebrate the first coming of
Christ and the second coming of Christ,
that is a great reminder that it's always
been about us living aware of the presence
of God. So
it it doesn't matter if we're in an
Old Testament story or in a New Testament
story.
Like, what what is it that we're learning
about being people who are living in in
the presence of God?
So this week, as as we're working our
way through Live It Out, we're we're reminding
people,
what does that look like? What helps you
remember what that Jesus is with you at
home, at school, at work, with friends?
And what are some of the things that
that have worked for you? What are some
of the things in the past that you
would say, hey, here are some things that
have worked this weekend. It's like, okay, what's
a tangible reminder? And you gave one. But
what are some things that you would say,
here are some practices in my life that
have helped me to live with great intentionality,
aware
that god is present with me. And then
and then we'll come back and we'll ask,
okay, and what happens when I lose that
awareness?
Do live it out every day. Yeah. There
you go. That's what I know. That's almost
a good start. Podcast calling. Today. Okay. What
is that one? But what are some okay.
There's one, but that gets us started. Starting
the day with something as good. It is
hard. It you know, it's that anybody's read
that,
brother Lawrence practicing the presence of God. It
is sort of that, like, I I do
struggle with there are times when it I
just seem to be better at being aware.
God is here. We're doing this together. And
by doing this, I mean just everything in
life.
And other times where it gets easier for
me to,
skip through whole chunks of my day without,
yeah, without without that awareness.
And
so I I I feel like maybe I
I mentioned the same things frequently, but I
can't remember what's on the podcast and what's
you know, we talk about this, Dave, or
what's on in a hallway conversation.
But for me, something that has always been
really, really helpful is
my dorky, old
Bible memory app. People are like, what's their
Bible memory app? It's it's a tear oh,
I don't know. It's not a terrible app,
but it's it is not cutting edge. It
does not look good. It's from the it's
old, you know, as much as an iPhone
app can be old.
On your phone, they could be pretty old,
though, dude.
It's like
a
The prehistoric version of iPhone three. I thought
somebody said what? Yesterday. Is that an iPhone
five? Somebody in the office said that. Come
on.
No. What is it actually? Did you actually
answer that question? This is an iPhone 13
Mini. It's just small. Oh. But 13 is
only like four
generations back. They're on 17 homes. Yep.
13 is almost iPhone pre historic. When did
they stop updating them?
I don't know. I don't know.
Yeah. Yeah.
But don't worry. That app will still work.
Yeah.
No wonder it looks like trash.
Right. Yeah. That's true. It is 20 10
years old or whatever, 15 years old. But
it's
that is a thing that helps me.
I'm like, it feels like cheating to go,
well, I'm just memorizing a Bible verse, so,
of course, that's gonna make you think of
God. I don't know. I that's what I
need. Yeah. Is The simplicity of it. Yeah.
Yeah. Like, I just need something to force
me.
Yeah. It's not even like a
I'm sorry to say, it's not even like
a attitude of my heart. Like, I just
wanna be aware of god's presence. It's like,
oh, I wanna
see if I can
get this one right.
And then that helps that that gets me
to, oh, I wanna be aware of God's
presence. You know? Yeah. I wish I didn't
need the crutch, but I do. Yeah. Yeah.
I think a lot of times it's like,
some things begin as a box check.
Yeah. You know what I mean? Of, like,
I memorize this first or I did my
devotional. I did live it out, and you'd
box check it.
But I think God is gracious enough that
he takes the box checks and actually grows
desire within us. And that's not to say
that I'm with you, Tim. It's not all
the time that I'm just going. I'm not
Brother Lawrence going. I'm practicing the presence of
Jesus as I wash dishes and stuff like
that.
But, I think
I'm with you. I
need tangible things because, yeah, I'll get up
and spend time in the Word
and then it's almost like I just go
about my day and,
you know,
just do what I wanna do in some
ways. And,
so I need tangible reminders of going, oh,
yeah.
I'm in this. We're in this together. And,
yeah. I wish I was further along. Don't.
Maybe I am. But Me too. Yeah. Me
too. I think for me too, things like,
it's okay for things to come in ebb
and flow
and for me to be aware
of God's presence right now.
I I am a music person, although I'm
not exactly,
You're a bass player. I'm a yeah. Musician.
In the worship band. I am so far
from a musician, but I love music. Music.
I do love music. And I've learned the
rudimentary skills of playing worship bass, which is
far from playing the bass.
Anyway, all that to say,
for right now, it's been a little bit,
and I've shared it before, that for it's
been worship music for me because because the
truth and people would say, well, of course,
it is. You're a pastor. Of course, that's
you know. And and the answer is no.
It's not. I've gone through seasons in my
life where there's been times where it has
been and it hasn't been. And the the
brutal truth is I love country music. That's
what I love. You know? And
God's music.
Yeah. So yeah. Is that is that yeah.
Yeah. Exactly. Just kidding. Yeah. Just a prank.
Yeah. No. Really. I I and and it's
like,
I hope that doesn't make me a bad
person. Right? I'd that's what I if I'm
gonna just choose to listen to
something. And so listening to worship music as
a discipline,
not just as background,
has been really has been really helpful for
me during this season of my life to
try and remember,
to live in the presence of of God.
And it does matter
because then that brings the second question is,
what what's the tendency in your life and
I know this is gonna be cliche, but
if you could drive it to concrete,
what's the tendency what's the thing that you
would notice in your life
when you start to become
unaware? Like, what's your go to, like, oh,
okay. I'm unaware.
Maybe this isn't I don't know it. Maybe
this isn't concrete enough. But when you asked
that, I pulled up,
my you know, just for people listening, we
a
and staff, we have a day that we
kind of use to
look back and look forward and make sure
we're aligned with,
the work that we're doing. And and one
of the things we do on that day
is fill out a little
I mean, we call it a report. Yeah.
It's a report. Yeah. But the first question
on there is Update. Yeah. Maybe that's a
good word. Yeah. Yeah.
But the first question on there is, what
is God currently teaching you? And,
I was I felt like I've been experiencing
just what you're describing, like, just not being
aware. So this is maybe not as concrete
as you're asking Dave, but this is what
I wrote. I said, trying to remember to
listen for the Spirit's promptings
moment to moment.
It's easy for me to go into my
own little,
in quotes, me world internally and pay no
attention to how God might wanna guide me.
And that's what I notice is, like, I
just
I just
a whole day or big chunks of the
day can go by, and I'm just in
in
internally in my brain. I'm just in
in it's like it's just me there, you
know? Yeah.
I don't know how else to describe it
other than that. But I I notice when
that happens that, like, I just haven't wondered,
what does God want me to do? Where
is he Yeah. What has he been up
to? Yeah. What does he want in this
moment for me? I'm just like, I've just
been doing my thing all day or for
days or for weeks. Yeah. That's not good.
I think,
the Bible Project guys talk about,
like, the presence of God brings order, and,
like, when there's a removal of God's presence,
it brings chaos. And and they have a
whole
series, the chaos dragon and all this stuff,
and which is really good.
But I think there is, like, a like,
a personal reality that I experience
when
when I when I practice and live intentionally
in the very presence of God. Like, in
in Exodus 33,
God's like, Moses intercedes on behalf of the
people of Israel,
and God,
like, kinda relents and he goes, Moses, I'll
go with you, and it's singular. He goes,
I'll go with you and I'll give you
rest. And Moses once again intercedes and goes,
no. It's an us saying God. And he's
like, alright. I'll go.
But that that rest, like, when I practice
and live intentionally in those spaces,
there's less chaos in my mind and my
heart. Mhmm. But when I think that I've
got it figured out, or or maybe even
worse, not even that I have it figured
out, but I'm the one that has to
figure it out,
it's easy for me to have that my
mind just starts to kinda swirl, and my
heart becomes anxious. And, like, there's just things.
And so that
that rest that God talks about, he's like,
yeah, I'm gonna give you rest.
That's what I want, but I don't get
it. And so, I mean, that can even
play itself out, and I'm not sleeping. I'm
waking up at two or three in the
morning or I'm whatever because my mind just
won't shut down.
And it's in those moments that I find
myself going,
I've been trying to do
I've been trying to do this on my
own. I've been trying to do it like
I'm smart enough to figure it out. I'm
I'm capable enough or whatever.
When it's like I can't find my wallet
and maybe maybe I should just pause and
pray and then I go into my yard
and find it. You know what I mean?
Yeah. So
No. I I can relate to all of
that for sure. That's that's a 100%.
I think for me, it's I definitely can
notice the indicators
where
I get
irritated and angry
when I'm not aware. I it's just easy
for me just to to get irritated and
angry, and and I'm like, woah, where where
is that? I thought I thought I was
addressing that. And it's like, oh, yeah. Just
forget that Jesus is in
is at work in you. Yeah. Here we
go. Yeah. You know?
Yeah. So I I would say probably my
family probably
can probably see that.
I don't know that we've ever actually had,
you know, be able to put words to
that. Mhmm. You know, it's it's like, okay,
this isn't just
as the anxiety level is is rising.
It's not just, oh, you need to try
harder. It's like, oh, you need to be
more aware. And I think that's gonna be
yeah. As we go through this Christmas, that's
gonna be try and be my,
spiritual discipline.
Is okay. It's one thing to talk about,
celebrating Jesus' presence, but what's it look like
for me just to be aware
of that? And
as I am, I think the people around
me maybe can
see that a little bit.
So,
as we get ready to head into this
week and the busyness of Christmas
is ramping up,
even as,
you know, we're still a couple weeks out,
but
it ramps up and
parties are happening and,
all the the activities between family and friends
and work and everything starts going. What are
some things that you would say, hey, as
you take a look at this week, make
sure you don't miss
make sure you don't miss this. Once again,
it's not like this is what I was
saying. It's not like just,
hey. Make sure that this Christmas,
you, you know,
keep keep, you know, Jesus is the reason
for the season. Yeah. Duh. You know, like,
I think there's a piece of it. It's
like, yeah, of course. Yeah. But but how
do we make sure that we're practicing
the presence of of Christ in us
in the midst of all that's coming on?
How do we redeem the time, so to
speak? And so, is there anything you would
say, hey, this week, I want to make
sure that that this is a thing we're
focusing on, or this is a thing that
we're we're really paying attention to?
I think for me, as I think about
that question in particular, it's it's,
to go back, Tim, to what you were
talking a little bit earlier, that quiet waters
of one foot in one kingdom and one
foot in God's kingdom, that we like to
straddle it. And,
the kingdom of the world is gonna go
get busier,
get, I mean,
faster,
more,
all the things. Right? Mhmm. And it's like,
no. If I can if I can intentionally
and it and that for me, it's gonna
take that. It's gonna take intentionally stepping back
from that and I'm going, woah, I'm getting
caught up. Yeah. I'm getting caught like, I
find myself getting busier and busier and busier
and what I needed the right whatever.
And it's like, no. Hold on a sec.
So I think if we can we talk
about, like, finding something tangible this week. Let
let the things of the season
just be tangible. And we've talked about this
in
Christmases past before, but
let the things
be tangible reminders
of Jesus as compared
to the kingdom of the world. And so,
I take my dogs for walks at night.
It's it's fun to see the Christmas lights
as people are starting to put more on
up and but let those be a tangible
reminder to be grateful to Mhmm. To Jesus,
the light of the world, and I know
we're gonna get there in this series. But
what are things that we can actually just
leverage
in this season
to be reminders of the very presence of
Jesus?
Mhmm.
Yeah. Yeah. And I think even, like, you
know,
I think there's a bunch of ways you
can do it. You can stick a Post
it note on your dashboard. I just think
about how I get in my car and
drive every day. Or or but or even,
like,
just decide.
I don't know if people's brains work this
way, but I think mine does something. Just
decide, like, okay. When I listen to when
Christmas music comes on, I'm gonna listen for
that. Just this, you know,
this Christmas season. I'm gonna list if if
this idea of Emmanuel, God with us, is
at the core of what Christmas is about,
then I'm just gonna listen for that in
all the songs. And some of them will
be Jingle Bells or,
you know, it might be a little harder.
But but the ones that are truly Christmas
songs Yeah.
Just to be listening for that because they'll
you know, sometimes in old fashioned
language,
hark the herald angels sing, you know, like,
but listen for, like,
okay. This is
God is here. Mhmm. And what a gift
that is, you know? Like, it's It takes
a mindset though. Yeah. You have to if
you
my mind doesn't naturally do that. It's choosing
Right. To go,
no. I'm gonna do this. Yeah. I'm gonna
listen. It's a discipline. Yeah. To think about
this thing. To be reminded of this thing.
And I think really for me, what I
wanna try and do is be,
you know, in, you know, awe and wonder.
You know? Yeah. Christmas is supposed to be
the, you know, magical season of awe and
wonder. Well, it should be we should feel
some sense of that when I think about,
how massive it is that that
the god of the universe has moved in
to my life, and he's here.
And
I shouldn't just go, yeah. That's cool. You
know? Like, I I wanted to get Francis
Chan that. The god of the universe.
You guys move. You will get this.
Yeah. Sorry. We Francis stand it. Yeah. He's
I love it. He's right
here.
I love Francis. I do too. I think
he's incredible.
Yeah. You too. Yeah. No. I think that's
that's really good advice. I mean, think for
me, it's like which is what sounds so
weird. It's to be able to say, well,
I'm not really like a Christmas guy. And
you're like, well,
how could you not be? You're a follower
of Christ. How could you not be? But
there's pieces of it. It's like, okay. How
do I how do I take the crazy
of Christmas
and redeem it? And so I I think
don't be don't don't wait until
a week before, a day before to say,
how do I redeem the the crazy of
this? To be able to think, okay, not
just how do I,
you know, put the Christ back in Christmas
as I mocked earlier.
But but how do I actually see
the the things that we do,
in order to celebrate Christmas? How do I
make sure that I'm I'm redeeming those in
my mind to ensure that they're reminding me
that Jesus really is with me, that the
spirit of God is leading me. He's transforming
me. So in the midst of, you know,
the the party that's coming up, the the
the celebration
family celebration
that's coming up, how do I redeem those
things to say, ultimately, this is about the
the presence of Christ with me? But then
they flip that and say, well, it's also
about what what's that look like when I'm
present with other people? What's it look like
when when I'm living present in the moment?
And for me, that that's very difficult. Kinda
like what you said earlier, Tim. I can
I can check out and live life in
my head? And,
there's times where that's really helpful,
and there's times where that's not helpful at
all. So as we head into this week,
Boobard, do you have a final word, or
did you already give it? I think I
gave it. He gave it. And so I
think we all left a final word. That's
the final word. See you.