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Announcer: This is
a Getty podcast.

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[Theme music begins] Host:
Some cabinets hold dishes

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or bedsheets or board games,
but have you ever heard of a

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cabinet that held a mystery?

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Welcome to If Objects Could
Talk, a podcast where art and

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artifacts come alive to tell
their side of the story.

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What is the oldest thing 
in your home?

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How old is it?

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And how would you prove
its age if someone asked?

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Finding out how old an object
is and where it came from is

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very important to museums.

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A lot of information can be
gained by figuring out who

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previously owned something.

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This kind of research is so
important, it even gets a

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special name: provenance.

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Sometimes though, the trail
of clues doesn’t lead far

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back enough to tell us the
first owner or maker, or

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how old an object really is.

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When that happens, people have
to use other tools of discovery.

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They need to become real-life
art detectives. Today’s guest

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knows about art detective work.

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It’s a large wooden cabinet
covered in carvings of

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vines, saints, griffins, and
even the Greek god Apollo.

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It was likely used to hold
linens or tableware up

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off the ground, away from
the risk of damage from

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flooding or pests like rats.
[rat squeaks] 

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And for a long time, 
specialists thought it

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was a copy of a Renaissance
cabinet from around the

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1500s, but made hundreds of
years later in the 1800s.

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But this cabinet is here today
to share all about how old he

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really is, and how curators
and conservators proved it.

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[Mysterious music begins]
Cabinet: [deep voice with

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posh accent] Come
hear the tale of the most

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curious case the researchers
at Getty ever did face.

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To locate the origin, both the
place and the time, of a very

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old cabinet told here in rhyme.
[record scratches] 

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Top Panel: [younger voice]
Told in rhyme by the, uh,

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older parts of the cabinet.

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[chuckles] Hi, I’m the 
top panel.

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I was built a bit later.

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He’s been telling me tales
since, phew, I was brand new,

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and this is one of his, uh,
most interesting tales, stories,

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uh, cases, as he calls them.

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Can you tell his favorite
podcasts are mysteries?

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[Mysterious music resumes]
Cabinet: [clears throat]

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The case in question.

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Why, of course, that would be
me, made of the finest wood

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from walnut and oak tree.
[branches rustle] 

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I’m an imposing cabinet 
over 10 feet

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high, with four different
levels reaching up to the sky.

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I have three doors [doors
slam] and drawers in my middle

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section, and one down below.

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And since you can’t see
me on this podcast, you’d

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probably like to know I am
covered in carvings: flowers,

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griffins, even a Greek god.

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But I have an origin
story that’s a bit, well,

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odd.I was purchased by
Mr. Getty himself in 1971.

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[piano music] Museum curators
thought that I was fake,

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but he thought I was fun.

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You see, real cabinets from
the Renaissance are very rare.

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Most are worn and broken,
but I looked so fair.

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[crowd chatter] “A
copy,” they said, “though

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interesting to see.

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It’s not as important as a real
cabinet would be.” They could

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not just trust word of mouth,
or “of drawer”, as it were.

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The curators needed evidence to
back up such lore. Proof of my

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past went as far back as 1846.


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[triumphant chord] 

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An engraving was made so my
owner could have pics of me.

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That’s right, and lots
of other cool art, too.

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[Classical music] To show
off their collection, both

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old things and new, they took
a photograph later in 1861.

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I had a brand-new base,
and my top shelf was redone.

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Top Panel: Oh, hey!

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That was me.

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We’ve been together
for about 160 years.

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Time really flies.

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[Cabinet clears throat]
Oh, uh, sorry, Gramps.

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Keep going.Cabinet: Those
pictures were as far back as

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researchers could go, until one
day when the Musée National de

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la Renaissance in France did
an exhibit on Hugues Sambin.

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Hugues was the head of a
furniture shop in 1500s France.

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Curators saw a fancy armoire by
him, then took a second glance.

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[crowd says “hmm”] It looked
so very similar to me.

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Did we have the same maker?

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Could it be?

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[triumphant music] The Getty
decided that the time was

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right to take me out of storage
and into the light.The first

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tool they used to investigate
me may come as a surprise.

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It wasn’t fancy tech.

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They simply used their eyes.
[rapid blinks] 

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It’s called “close looking”, 
examining for

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details: little marks left by
woodworking tools [sanding]

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or holes from old nails.
[hammering]

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Rough marks on my back look 
like they were from

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a handsaw [sawing] and there
are dents from being held to

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a workbench by an iron claw.
[creaking] 

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These were common tools 
to use in the

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1500s, way back in the past.

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The museum was discovering my
long, long history at last!

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Top Panel: Close looking can 
lead to all kinds of discoveries.

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You can see brush strokes
in paint, weave in cloth,

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or carvings in wood
just by using your eyes.

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But close looking was
only the first step.

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After that, conservators had to
go a little deeper, analyzing

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the wood inside the cabinet.

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Right, Gramps? 
Cabinet: Yes.

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Conservators used a special
methodology to measure tree

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rings called dendrochronology.

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You see, trees grow different
amounts in a single year,

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depending on how hot it is
or how much rain comes near.

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This growth makes a pattern, a
nd if you have wood

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with which to compare, you can
figure out which trees were

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nearby, when it grew, and where.
[voice says “aha!”] 

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So a scientist found 
other wood

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with the same rings as me, and
discovered I’m from a region in

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France called Burgundy, cut down
in the fall or winter of 1574.

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[trees rustling and chopping]
No one had ever thought

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I was that old before.
[children say “wow!”] 

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Top Panel: Next time you see

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wood furniture, see if you
can count the tree rings.

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Even if you can’t use
dendrochronology to date

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it at home, it’s still
so cool to see how much

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the wood grew each year.

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If you see rings with a similar
size, it might mean the weather

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was similar for those two years.

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Of course, researchers couldn’t
use dendrochronology for

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everything. Cabinet: Next,
they looked inside, opened

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up my doors and my drawers
[drawers open] and found

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some very old cloth that they
could use to settle scores.

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Snipped away a few threads
and used carbon dating, which

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calculates age by how much
something is deteriorating.

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It’s not as exact as tree rings.

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It shows a big range of years.

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But carbon dating turned out
to be a good way to settle

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some fears [voice says “whew!”]
because the cloth came from the

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same period of time as the wood.
[triumphant music and clapping]

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So for proving my age,
that’s very, very good.

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You see, researching
history isn’t quite

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like a math equation.

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There’s no true answer, and
you can’t just, on occasion,

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look up the perfect answer
in the back of a book.

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Instead, the journey starts 
by taking a

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look at where the evidence
points, finding the most likely

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explanation, compiling all
the details, and making sure

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to use citation. Top Panel:
Sometimes it feels like it would

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be much easier if there was
a perfect answer every time.

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But when you’re dealing with
history, there’s a lot of

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“probablys” or “most likelys”.

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People can’t always
find 100% proof.

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But by using multiple methods
of research, we can make

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our best effort to make
sure we’re pointed in the

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right direction.Cabinet: So
one more piece of evidence

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important to my history—it
was found deep inside the

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secrets of my cabinetry.

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A metal tack could be the
key to separate truth from

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myths, but only if you
know a little bit about the

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workings of blacksmiths.
[metal hammering]

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Top Panel: Oh, oh!

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This is the part
with the metal tack.

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It’s so fun and tacky.
[laughs] In a good way.

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Cabinet: [laughs] Little panel,

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you’ve heard it so often.

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Yeah, you should tell this
one.Top Panel: Oh, really?

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You think?

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Okay.
[Mysterious music] 

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Uh, so researchers 
also became

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interested in a loose metal tack
that they found in a drawer.

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They polished tiny slivers
of the metal [sheets

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rustling] and analyzed it
under an optical microscope.

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[voice says “hmm”] Metal is made
up of tiny crystal structures.

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[chimes] And when they looked
closely, they could see

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that the crystal structures
had a rounded shape.

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Now, this was very exciting.

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You see, modern metals are
usually hammered [metal

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hammering] or stamped into
shape [metal tap] which would

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make the crystal structure
in the metal very different.

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The rounded shape means the
metal was likely heated up and

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then poured into a mold to cool.

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[bubbling then sizzling]
This was a common practice

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in the 1500s, but not today.

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So…Cabinet: So it really
looks like I’m celebrating

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my 450th birthday.

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[“Happy Birthday” instrumental
song] What an adventure.

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What a journey through time.
The Getty looked at the

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past, not sure what they’d
find, but boy, am I glad

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they took a good look at me.

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If you looked into your history,
what would you see?Top Panel:

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Oh, that was a great story.

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Okay, time for cake
and a lot of candles.

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[Theme music begins]
Host: I hope you enjoyed

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learning about provenance
and conservation research.

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Join us next time when one cool
horse comes into the studio.

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[horse chuffs] To see
photographs of the cabinet

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and read more about its
mysteries, visit our website

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at Getty dot edu slash IOCT.

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We’ve also got a listening
guide with discussion questions

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and related activities
there.This episode was

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written by Claire Hupy and
produced by Zoe Goldman.

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Brock Powell voiced the cabinet.

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Theme music, mixing, and sound
design by Alexandra Kalinowski.

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Christopher Sprinkle
is executive producer.

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Special thanks to curators
Anne-Lise Desmas and Miriam

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Schefzyk, as well as Rebekkah
Hart and conservator Arlen

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Heginbotham. These stories
are historical fiction.

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They’re based on historical
facts and deep research,

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but we’ve filled in the
gaps to make a good story.

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If you have questions about
what you’ve heard, write to us

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at podteam at Getty dot edu.

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Catch you next time.