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Announcer: This is
a Getty Podcast.

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Host: Let the good times
roll, because today we hear

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from an ancient kind of dice!

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Welcome to If Objects Could
Talk, a podcast where art

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and artifacts get to leave
the museum vault and share

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their side of the story.

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Thanks for joining us as we
bring objects into the light!

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What kinds of games
do you like to play?

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Any favorite board games?

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Maybe something with dice?

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Kids just like you have been
playing games for, well, for as

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long as there have been kids!

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In ancient times, a lot of those
games were played with dice,

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just like many modern games.

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But Roman kids used a
special type of die they

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called an astragalos, which
means knucklebones—because

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they were made from the
knucklebones of sheep or pigs!

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Today’s guest is a special
glass astragalos and for the

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last 2000 years, since he
was made, this acrobatic die

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has been a champion of fun.

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Looks like he’s ready to
show us his best moves!

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Let’s make some room!

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Astragalos the Acrobat: Woohoo!

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Are you ready for this?

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Back handspring.

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Wow!

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Front flip.

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And— dun dun dun dun! —cartwheel!

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Wee!

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Phew...Gotta stay limber with
all the twists and turns I do!

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Did that look cool?

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Child: No one can see you.

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Astragalos: Oh, what?

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Child: It’s a podcast!

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Astragalos: A podcast?

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Oh, yeah!

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I forgot you can’t see me.

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Sorry.

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Well...It DID look cool!

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Can you picture it?

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Let me set the scene.

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Imagine a small, clear-ish glass
object about as long as a penny.

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You probably have dice that
are perfect cubes, but I’m more

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rectangular, with two short
faces and four long faces.

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And all of my sides are unique!

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Of my four long faces, two
are wider and two are slimmer.

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One of my wide sides curves
out and the other curves in.

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One of my two skinny
sides curves in, too,

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but then my other skinny
side is mostly flat!

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Is that description
making your mind your

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mind do somersaults yet?

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I know it’s kind of strange
sounding, to imagine me

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with so many sides and
all of them different.

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But since each of my faces
is so different from the

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others, people didn’t need
to mark little dots on each

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one to give it a number.

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They just knew which shaped
side meant which number.

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I’m a unique type of astragalos.

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Most are made from sheep
or goat knucklebones.

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Which makes sense
because “astragalos”

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means “knucklebone!”

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That’s right—kids were
using bones in their games!

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But I’m extra special because
I’m made of molded glass

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to look like knucklebones.

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Other prized types
of knucklebones have

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been made from metals,
marble, wood, terracotta,

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and even precious gems.

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I’m

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more than just dice.

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There are lots of games
you play with knucklebones!

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Like have you ever grabbed a
waste paper basket and tried

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to shoot some hoops with a
balled up piece of paper?

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Well, next time you can try
tossing your knucklebones

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into the opening of a jar
like Ancient Roman kids!

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Or let’s play marbles!

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But instead of seeing if you can
knock your opponent’s marbles

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out of the ring, see if you can
knock out their knucklebones!

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And!

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If you’ve got a real acrobat,
such as yours truly, you can

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toss your knucklebones up in the
air and try to catch us on the

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back of your hands, like jacks!

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That’s my favorite.

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I love twisting and
turning in the air.

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Pretty soon I’ll nail “The
Biles,” like Simone! I’ve

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only been practicing for,
like, two thousand years.

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All the best games can be
played with knucklebones!

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But we have one more skill,
too: predicting the future.

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I’m actually very good
at predicting the future.

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Well, at predicting

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certain things.

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I’ll show you!

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Can you find a six-sided
die to look at?

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Maybe you’ve got one
in a Parcheesi box

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or a game of Yahtzee.

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I bet you that no matter
what side you look at, I

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can predict the number of
dots on the opposite side!

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Are you ready?

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Here goes!

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Are you looking at the
side with three dots?

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Well, then the opposite
side will have…four dots!

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How about the side
with five dots?

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Then the opposite
side has to be...two!

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And that just leaves six
and one as the final pair.

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Thank you, thank you.

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Want to know the trick?

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It’s because the opposite
sides of the dice

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always add up to seven!

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And it’s the same when you
play with knucklebones.

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Each side has a numeric
value, and opposite

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sides add up to seven.

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There is one big difference
between how you play with

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me and modern dice though.

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With me, it’s not the side
that’s face up that matters,

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it’s the one touching the table!

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Try using that rule
the next time things

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go south in Monopoly.

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Oh, I’ve competed in
thousands of great games.

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All of them fun, but
there’s one in particular

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that I’ll always remember.

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A real nail-biter,
where everything came

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down to the final toss.

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It all started with this
kid named Nikandros,

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who lived in the Roman
empire with his family.

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And I mean, his whole family.

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Not just his mom and dad
and siblings, but also

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his grandmother and some
aunts and uncles, and a

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whole crew of cousins.

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Anyway, every year, in the
late summer, when bees had

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filled their hives to the
brim, honey was harvested.

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And each year during honey
harvest season, Nikandros’

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grandmother would make
the most delicious pancake

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drizzled in golden honey.

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Mmmh!

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But there was a catch.

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She only made one honeycake.

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To decide who got it, the
cousins would hold an epic

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knucklebones tournament.

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Talk about going for gold!

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Three years in a row,
Nikandros’s big bully

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of a cousin Straton won.

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And he ate the honeycake in
front of everyone, without

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sharing a single bite!

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Nikandros was determined that
this was going to be his year,

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so he worked on his skills all
summer, but as the tournament

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approached, he still wasn’t
sure if he could beat Straton.

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So,

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Nikandros asked his oldest
cousin, Cassandra, for help.

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Cassandra was almost all
grown up and didn’t play

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in the cousins’ tournament
anymore, but back in the day,

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ahhh, she’d been a champion.

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When Nikandros came to her
for help, she pulled out her

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own very special set of lucky
knucklebones for him to borrow.

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Four beautiful pieces, all
made of glass, including,

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you guessed it, me!

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I couldn’t wait to
get back in the ring!

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Is there anything more fun
than twisting and turning

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and jumping in the air on
the last days of summer?

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At first, I was sure this
was going to be a cinch.

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But Straton was good.

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Very good.

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Maybe even...too good.

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Let me back up for a second and
explain the rules of the game.

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In the cousins’ tournament,
the goal was to throw your

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four knucklebones so that
each one landed on a different

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side—this was called a “Venus
Throw.” So Nikandros and

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Straton both made it to the
final round when Nikandros

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noticed something...suspicious.

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Even a good player has some
bad throws, but Straton

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was throwing the exact same
hand over and over and over!

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When Nikandros pointed this
out, Straton said he was

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just being a sore loser.

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It took a lot of courage, but
Nikandros stood his ground.

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He called Cassandra over to
inspect Straton’s knucklebones.

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She looked closely...and
spotted it.

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Tiny holes drilled into
the bone, with little

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flakes of metal inside.

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The added weight of the metal
caused the knucklebones to

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land the same way every time.

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Straton had only been
winning because Straton

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had been cheating!

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Uch,

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cheating.

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It’s a tale as old as playing.

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And there’s nothing I hate more!

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I mean, I know that life isn’t
fair, but shouldn’t games be?

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You’d think a guy like that
would get kicked out of

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the tournament, but their
grandmother just said, “it

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was only a game” and “stay of
the kitchen, we’re busy.” Tch!

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Only a game!

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Now, more than ever, I wanted
to help Nikandros beat Straton.

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I wanted it so badly I was
starting to get really nervous.

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I hoped I wouldn’t get
a case of the twisties!

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For the final round of
the tournament, Straton

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was forced to hand over
his weighted knucklebones

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and play with a fair set.

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In their first three throws,
both Straton and Nikandros

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had flipped their knucklebones
three different ways.

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Then Straton flubbed
the final toss!

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To win, Nikandros needed to
land a knucklebone on the

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side that curves out, the
hardest side to get stable.

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When Nikandros picked me up,
I could feel his hand shaking.

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Or maybe it was me, trembling.

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He took a deep breath.

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He tossed me into the air.

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I twisted and turned
under the open

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00:10:48,689 --> 00:10:48,760
sky and...

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00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:49,566
I stuck the landing like a pro!

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The crowd went wild!

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00:10:51,100 --> 00:10:57,519
Nikandros won—the game
and the honeycake.

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He split the cake with
Cassandra, in thanks,

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who suggested they share
with all the cousins.

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Victory had never
tasted so sweet.

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You just don’t get
games like that anymore.

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Unless, maybe you
want to play sometime?

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00:11:17,830 --> 00:11:17,840
Host: I

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00:11:23,340 --> 00:11:26,740
hope you enjoyed learning about
Roman games and knucklebones.

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Join us next time when an
owl flies off a coin and into

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the studio to speak with us.

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To see photographs of the
astragalos and learn the

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rules to some Roman games,
visit our website at Getty

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dot edu slash podcasts.

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00:11:46,130 --> 00:11:48,599
This episode was written
by Claire Hupy and

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produced by Zoe Goldman.

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00:11:50,590 --> 00:11:52,840
Lara Woodhull voiced
the astragalos.

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00:11:53,469 --> 00:11:57,420
Theme music, mixing and sound
design by Alexandra Kalinowski.

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Christopher Sprinkle
is executive producer.

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Special thanks to curators
Ken Lapatin, Judith Barr,

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and Hana Sugioka as well
as John and Amos McCue.

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Catch you next time!