1 00:00:01,830 --> 00:00:05,160 Announcer: This is a Getty Podcast 2 00:00:05,653 --> 00:00:07,543 Jaime Roque: Hey, I'm Jaime, host of ReCurrent, 3 00:00:07,543 --> 00:00:08,743 a Getty podcast. 4 00:00:09,073 --> 00:00:11,893 On ReCurrent I explore the hidden cultural stories 5 00:00:11,893 --> 00:00:14,713 all around us, the stories that live in photographs, 6 00:00:14,713 --> 00:00:16,663 archives, and everyday places. 7 00:00:17,113 --> 00:00:20,653 Season two is out now with all six episodes available, 8 00:00:20,953 --> 00:00:22,958 and I wanted to share an episode with you here today. 9 00:00:23,938 --> 00:00:27,298 On this episode, Backlot and Barrio, I spent time with 10 00:00:27,298 --> 00:00:30,658 photographer George Rodriguez, whose camera captured two 11 00:00:30,658 --> 00:00:34,518 sides of Los  Angeles—Hollywood backlots and  Los Angeles’ 12 00:00:34,698 --> 00:00:38,728 East  Side—documenting celebrity culture while staying rooted 13 00:00:38,728 --> 00:00:40,708 in community and resistance. 14 00:00:41,308 --> 00:00:44,158 If you'd like to hear the rest of the season and explore more 15 00:00:44,158 --> 00:00:47,518 stories like this, you can find ReCurrent wherever you listen to 16 00:00:47,528 --> 00:00:52,068 podcasts or at getty dot edu slash podcasts slash recurrent. 17 00:00:55,130 --> 00:01:02,782 [Voices yelling over sirens, photos snapping. 18 00:01:02,782 --> 00:01:05,619 Voice over radio says “All units respond”] 19 00:01:05,619 --> 00:01:06,835 [Brass music begins] 20 00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:09,370 George Rodriguez: You could be somewhere like in East LA 21 00:01:09,710 --> 00:01:13,740 at a school walkout and then you come back and in a half 22 00:01:13,740 --> 00:01:17,110 an hour, now you’re working on Hollywood magazines. 23 00:01:18,660 --> 00:01:20,640 They’re not aware of the other situation, they’re 24 00:01:20,730 --> 00:01:27,970 totally different worlds. 25 00:01:31,420 --> 00:01:33,900 Roque: That’s photographer George Rodriguez, the most 26 00:01:33,930 --> 00:01:37,440 influential Southern California photographer you likely 27 00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:38,960 haven’t heard of until now. 28 00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:44,780 He is talking about his experience of shooting Hollywood 29 00:01:44,780 --> 00:01:48,070 on one role of film and the Latino experience on the next. 30 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:55,120 Hello, my name is Jaime and welcome to ReCurrent. 31 00:01:58,420 --> 00:02:01,360 If you haven’t heard of George Rodriguez, that’s okay. 32 00:02:01,790 --> 00:02:03,890 Before this story, I hadn’t either. 33 00:02:06,590 --> 00:02:10,280 Now, I want you to imagine this—I’m at lunch with Idurre 34 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:13,190 Alonso, the head of Modern and Contemporary Art at the Getty. 35 00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:15,680 We’re talking about possible topics for 36 00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:16,630 ReCurrent’s new season. 37 00:02:16,630 --> 00:02:20,970 And in between bites she asks, “You know George Rodriguez?” My 38 00:02:20,970 --> 00:02:24,310 first thought was, “Yeah, I know a couple George Rodriguez’, but 39 00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:27,770 probably not the one you are talking about.” So, I say: “No.” 40 00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:33,080 And then boom—crash course: the East LA walkouts, the Chicano 41 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:36,860 Moratorium, farmworkers marching with César Chávez and the UFW… 42 00:02:37,300 --> 00:02:41,340 then a hard cut to Hollywood—red carpets, studio lots, and 43 00:02:41,350 --> 00:02:44,410 faces you might know and recognize like Michael Jackson, 44 00:02:44,570 --> 00:02:48,260 N.W.A., Janis Joplin, Jimi Hendrix, even Marilyn Monroe. 45 00:02:48,260 --> 00:02:49,100 And I was hooked and I needed to know 46 00:02:52,110 --> 00:02:52,470 more. 47 00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:54,765 [Percussion music begins] 48 00:02:55,840 --> 00:03:00,520 Rodriguez: My name is George Rodríguez and I was born here in 49 00:03:00,710 --> 00:03:02,750 LA, actually in South Central. 50 00:03:02,990 --> 00:03:06,290 Roque: George is born in 1937 and not long after 51 00:03:06,290 --> 00:03:09,110 that, his dad opens a shoe repair shop on Skid Row. 52 00:03:09,590 --> 00:03:11,950 The shop is downstairs and the family in the back. 53 00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:15,310 By the late ’40s, around twelve, George is back 54 00:03:15,310 --> 00:03:16,475 in South Central LA. 55 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:18,960 While attending Fremont High, George is in 56 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:20,020 need of an elective. 57 00:03:20,220 --> 00:03:22,470 A friend suggests a photography course because 58 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:23,640 he heard it was easy. 59 00:03:23,940 --> 00:03:26,690 And it turns out, George loves it and begins putting 60 00:03:26,690 --> 00:03:30,230 in hours of practice, getting as much experience as he can. 61 00:03:30,590 --> 00:03:34,980 Then, one small favor for a friend changes everything. 62 00:03:35,180 --> 00:03:37,030 Rodriguez: What happened exactly was a friend of 63 00:03:37,030 --> 00:03:40,760 mine that I was in school with, he needed a ride to 64 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:42,670 Hollywood so I gave him a ride. 65 00:03:42,700 --> 00:03:47,990 I had luckily parked in front of a photo studio and 66 00:03:47,990 --> 00:03:50,480 I saw this guy setting up to take some photographs. 67 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:55,600 I went in and talked to him and that man was Sid Avery. 68 00:04:00,980 --> 00:04:03,370 Roque: Sid Avery was one of Hollywood’s go-to photographers 69 00:04:03,370 --> 00:04:07,570 in the 1950s and ’60s—famous for candid, off-set portraits 70 00:04:07,570 --> 00:04:10,030 and photo essays that ran in magazines that were on 71 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:12,460 nearly everyone’s coffee table across the country. 72 00:04:13,050 --> 00:04:16,340 Magazines like LIFE, Look, Collier’s, and The 73 00:04:16,340 --> 00:04:17,490 Saturday Evening Post. 74 00:04:18,010 --> 00:04:20,390 His subjects spanned Audrey Hepburn, James 75 00:04:20,390 --> 00:04:23,500 Dean, Humphrey Bogart, Elizabeth Taylor, and more. 76 00:04:23,540 --> 00:04:26,340 Rodriguez: Coincidentally he was starting a photo lab 77 00:04:26,340 --> 00:04:30,130 so, I went and applied to work and I got a job there 78 00:04:30,930 --> 00:04:32,670 working in the Hollywood area. 79 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:35,130 Roque: Famous Hollywood names start to stack up 80 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:36,330 as the work increases. 81 00:04:36,850 --> 00:04:40,450 Rodriguez: I guess he liked me so he would have me assist 82 00:04:40,450 --> 00:04:41,540 him on shoots he would do. 83 00:04:41,540 --> 00:04:44,620 And he, like I say, we went to Lucille Ball’s house 84 00:04:44,620 --> 00:04:49,410 and I was only about 18 years old and I loved it. 85 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:52,890 But then after a while you know you take it for granted, having 86 00:04:52,890 --> 00:04:57,060 conversations with Michael Jackson and Jim Morrison. 87 00:04:57,090 --> 00:05:00,300 Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin, you know, you don't think 88 00:05:00,300 --> 00:05:05,880 about it, until later do you realize how special that is. 89 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:08,410 Roque: The origin story’s set—a kid from South 90 00:05:08,410 --> 00:05:11,940 Central, trained at Fremont, hustling in labs and on sets. 91 00:05:12,490 --> 00:05:14,440 But things are about to change for him. 92 00:05:14,650 --> 00:05:17,680 He doesn’t know it yet but the frame is starting to shift. 93 00:05:17,990 --> 00:05:20,610 Rodriguez: I remember when I worked at Chris Lawford 94 00:05:20,620 --> 00:05:24,570 publishing company, if I knew things were going on I would 95 00:05:24,570 --> 00:05:28,070 leave at lunchtime and go to East LA and shoot the stuff. 96 00:05:32,900 --> 00:05:33,605 [Trumpet music begins] 97 00:05:34,180 --> 00:05:35,820 Roque: March of 1968. 98 00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:39,250 George is now working at the photo lab at Columbia pictures, 99 00:05:39,630 --> 00:05:42,310 which publishes celebrity pics like Frank Sinatra 100 00:05:42,310 --> 00:05:45,290 and Warren Beatty and movie premiers like Bye Bye Birdie 101 00:05:45,310 --> 00:05:46,710 and Breakfast at Tiffany’s. 102 00:05:47,210 --> 00:05:50,260 But across town, students from Wilson, Garfield, 103 00:05:50,450 --> 00:05:53,480 Lincoln, Roosevelt, and Belmont High Schools walk out. 104 00:05:55,010 --> 00:05:55,240 [Fast-paced guitar music] 105 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:01,430 They are protesting overcrowded schools, scarce 106 00:06:01,430 --> 00:06:04,320 resources, and bias against Mexican American students. 107 00:06:05,100 --> 00:06:08,350 It became a defining action of the Chicano Movement—which 108 00:06:08,350 --> 00:06:11,510 was a civil-rights wave led by Mexican Americans to 109 00:06:11,510 --> 00:06:14,340 win better schools, labor rights, representation, and 110 00:06:14,450 --> 00:06:15,870 control over their own story. 111 00:06:16,780 --> 00:06:18,990 Rodriguez: You could be somewhere like in East LA 112 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:25,960 at a school walkout and it’s immersed in 100 percent Chicano 113 00:06:25,970 --> 00:06:31,190 Mexican environment and then you come back and in a half 114 00:06:31,210 --> 00:06:34,920 an hour, now you’re working on Hollywood magazines and 115 00:06:36,360 --> 00:06:39,070 they’re not aware of the other situation and they really don’t 116 00:06:39,070 --> 00:06:43,330 care and they don’t get it. 117 00:06:43,790 --> 00:06:43,920 [Trumpet music] 118 00:06:44,840 --> 00:06:47,080 Roque: Speaking to George, something clicks for me: 119 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:51,230 culture is made and kept by the people who show up. 120 00:06:51,570 --> 00:06:54,680 George did—and saved what might’ve been forgotten. 121 00:06:55,340 --> 00:06:58,880 He was there, documenting the movement, yes, and also 122 00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:01,120 participating by documenting it. 123 00:07:01,730 --> 00:07:04,260 Researching this episode, I poured through the 2018 124 00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:08,130 monograph “Double Vision”, which catalogued George’s career. 125 00:07:08,690 --> 00:07:11,080 I was surprised to find picture after picture that 126 00:07:11,100 --> 00:07:13,900 I recognized—from my old Chicano Studies textbooks. 127 00:07:14,380 --> 00:07:17,090 Photographs of a requiem procession for Robert F. 128 00:07:17,090 --> 00:07:19,760 Kennedy the day after he died that ran down Brooklyn 129 00:07:19,780 --> 00:07:21,530 Ave. to East LA College. 130 00:07:21,980 --> 00:07:24,517 Robert Kennedy was a big supporter of César Chávez and 131 00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:28,780 the United Farm Workers, or UFW, so his death was a big 132 00:07:28,790 --> 00:07:30,220 deal for Mexican Americans. 133 00:07:30,610 --> 00:07:33,110 I find photographs of the Chicano Moratorium—the 134 00:07:33,110 --> 00:07:36,100 anti–Vietnam War protests led by Mexican Americans. 135 00:07:36,390 --> 00:07:39,340 And photographs of the United Farm Workers organization, in 136 00:07:39,340 --> 00:07:42,650 Delano, in the Central Valley: the boycotts, hunger strikes, 137 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:45,460 and the UFW’s continuous organizing alongside César 138 00:07:47,490 --> 00:07:47,767 Chávez and Dolores Huerta. 139 00:07:47,767 --> 00:07:50,100 Huerta would go on to say George’s photos helped bring 140 00:07:50,130 --> 00:07:53,120 people to the cause, and that he understood it because he 141 00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:54,500 was part of the community. 142 00:07:54,820 --> 00:07:57,870 Rodriguez: Yeah, I realize now that you know that what I lived 143 00:07:57,870 --> 00:08:00,610 through is actually history. 144 00:08:00,730 --> 00:08:03,020 Roque: He took as many shots as he could out of fear 145 00:08:03,020 --> 00:08:04,410 that nobody else would. 146 00:08:04,930 --> 00:08:07,480 And he did so with the same care, attention, 147 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:10,540 and artistry he used when taking celebrity portraits. 148 00:08:11,150 --> 00:08:11,920 The originals? 149 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:14,650 Many are now at the Getty Research Institute. 150 00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:23,540 [Elevator moves and opens. 151 00:08:23,540 --> 00:08:23,950 Jaime greets someone] 152 00:08:23,950 --> 00:08:25,940 I’m at the Getty Research Institute with 153 00:08:25,950 --> 00:08:28,020 curator Idurre Alonso. 154 00:08:28,020 --> 00:08:30,990 We’re going through George Rodríguez’s photos. 155 00:08:31,580 --> 00:08:35,670 We face 30 boxes full of decades worth of George’s contact 156 00:08:35,670 --> 00:08:37,580 sheets, negatives, and images. 157 00:08:37,580 --> 00:08:39,930 [In background] And then we can go over all this afterwards… 158 00:08:39,970 --> 00:08:42,430 You can see the craft in each of his photos. 159 00:08:43,060 --> 00:08:46,050 And that’s part of why these pictures live here—not 160 00:08:46,050 --> 00:08:48,570 just for what they show, but how they show it. 161 00:08:49,190 --> 00:08:52,940 Years on sets taught George to read light fast, to compose in 162 00:08:52,940 --> 00:08:56,180 chaos, to wait for the breath between action and after. 163 00:08:56,270 --> 00:08:58,730 The same eye that could flatter a movie star found 164 00:08:58,730 --> 00:09:01,780 the glow on a hand‑painted sign in a protest and the 165 00:09:01,780 --> 00:09:03,270 anger on a marcher’s face. 166 00:09:03,530 --> 00:09:06,700 He brought studio craft to the sidewalk—and it shows. 167 00:09:07,060 --> 00:09:10,400 The frames are beautiful, human, precise. 168 00:09:10,980 --> 00:09:13,830 Idurre Alonso: For me, it was like, everything as a whole. 169 00:09:14,090 --> 00:09:16,310 I think he just wanted to document what was 170 00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:17,800 happening for him. 171 00:09:17,970 --> 00:09:21,510 Or maybe thinking on the future, but at the time 172 00:09:21,510 --> 00:09:22,570 it was just for him. 173 00:09:23,250 --> 00:09:26,250 Roque: In one photo, white helmeted police stand over 174 00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:28,820 a teen protestor beaten with batons in East LA. 175 00:09:29,650 --> 00:09:32,190 Another shows a sign that says, “Roosevelt Chicanos 176 00:09:32,190 --> 00:09:35,780 Demand Justice.” And in another, a march led by 177 00:09:35,780 --> 00:09:37,840 Chicano activists Brown Berets. 178 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:41,340 Alonso: Also the depiction of East LA and Pico Rivera is, this 179 00:09:41,340 --> 00:09:43,500 is the 60s, this is the 70s. 180 00:09:43,660 --> 00:09:47,030 And, and even also these depictions of kids and 181 00:09:47,170 --> 00:09:48,620 the people in East LA. 182 00:09:48,620 --> 00:09:52,110 In the case of George Rodriguez, he’s Mexican American and he’s 183 00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:57,250 actually the first Chicano artist to enter the collection. 184 00:09:57,800 --> 00:09:58,390 Roque: Wow. 185 00:09:58,480 --> 00:09:58,660 That’s powerful. 186 00:10:00,190 --> 00:10:01,370 Alonso: Very powerful, yeah. 187 00:10:02,610 --> 00:10:04,800 Roque: Hearing “first” lands hard. 188 00:10:05,430 --> 00:10:05,990 Really? 189 00:10:06,220 --> 00:10:07,380 the first one? 190 00:10:07,900 --> 00:10:09,690 And also: finally. 191 00:10:10,470 --> 00:10:13,350 It’s powerful to stand with Getty’s first Chicano archive. 192 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:16,290 In big institutions, it can be hard to find your 193 00:10:16,290 --> 00:10:17,340 own heritage reflected. 194 00:10:17,790 --> 00:10:20,880 I work here, and even for me it’s not always obvious 195 00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:22,140 where my culture fits. 196 00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:24,510 But I find resonance in these boxes. 197 00:10:26,530 --> 00:10:29,140 I ask Idurre why George’s archive is here. 198 00:10:30,810 --> 00:10:34,220 Alonso: You would encounter in this archive something that is 199 00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:36,700 not usually found in archives. 200 00:10:36,710 --> 00:10:40,290 So usually when you see photographs of LA in this 201 00:10:40,310 --> 00:10:42,470 time period, what you see is the west side. 202 00:10:42,630 --> 00:10:43,820 You don’t see the east. 203 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:45,400 Two different universes. 204 00:10:45,910 --> 00:10:48,770 Roque: In the archival boxes, it isn’t just celebrities 205 00:10:48,770 --> 00:10:51,610 and protests—there are records of daily life. 206 00:10:51,860 --> 00:10:54,370 Kids after school, storefronts on a Sunday, 207 00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:55,760 neighbors on the block. 208 00:10:56,600 --> 00:10:59,250 As George puts it, you’re photographing the politics, 209 00:10:59,250 --> 00:11:02,940 sure, but behind the politics, people live full lives. 210 00:11:03,250 --> 00:11:06,040 Rodriguez: The people, you know, they don’t realize 211 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:08,560 that their heroes are just trying to make a living. 212 00:11:09,090 --> 00:11:12,990 That’s just like me, you know, I was taking pictures, some of 213 00:11:12,990 --> 00:11:16,720 this stuff was very powerful, and that’s what I… I knew that 214 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:20,230 I had to do it because I thought nobody else was doing it. 215 00:11:20,990 --> 00:11:24,800 Roque: Culture—images, stories, memory—is safeguarded 216 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:28,260 by people long before an institution gets involved. 217 00:11:28,370 --> 00:11:30,650 George’s approach to documenting and capturing 218 00:11:30,650 --> 00:11:33,600 his culture and community is vital and alive today. 219 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:33,954 [car driving] 220 00:11:34,130 --> 00:11:36,480 I drive to Santa Ana to meet photographer and 221 00:11:36,500 --> 00:11:39,430 educator William Camargo and see the legacy of 222 00:11:39,430 --> 00:11:40,710 George Rodriguez in action. 223 00:11:40,710 --> 00:11:41,365 Hey! 224 00:11:42,020 --> 00:11:42,100 William Camargo: Hey! 225 00:11:42,100 --> 00:11:42,530 How you doing? 226 00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:45,830 [chatter fades] 227 00:11:46,650 --> 00:11:47,740 My name is William Camargo. 228 00:11:47,810 --> 00:11:50,600 I was born in Santana, but was raised in Anaheim. 229 00:11:50,690 --> 00:11:52,960 My first introduction to photography was in high school. 230 00:11:54,010 --> 00:11:58,040 I was just actually trying to get an easy A, and it just 231 00:11:58,040 --> 00:12:00,920 turned out that I enjoyed photography quite a bit. 232 00:12:01,330 --> 00:12:02,860 Roque: [Over chatter] Already, I hear echoes of Geroge’s 233 00:12:03,060 --> 00:12:07,020 story—chancing into a career in pursuit of an easy A. And 234 00:12:07,030 --> 00:12:10,050 there are more similarities: celebrities by day and 235 00:12:10,050 --> 00:12:11,310 social movements by night. 236 00:12:11,580 --> 00:12:13,550 Camargo: I was doing a lot of music photography too 237 00:12:13,550 --> 00:12:17,570 and once in a while I was stringing for a photo agency. 238 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:20,230 Like these red carpets where I would always get 239 00:12:20,230 --> 00:12:22,150 these assignments that are like the premier of this 240 00:12:22,150 --> 00:12:24,840 movie in the Beverly Hotel and then the afternoon was 241 00:12:24,860 --> 00:12:28,300 like a protest in downtown. 242 00:12:29,210 --> 00:12:32,000 Roque: But William sees George’s impact in another project. 243 00:12:32,140 --> 00:12:34,650 Camargo: The book I’m finishing right now is probably 244 00:12:35,550 --> 00:12:38,420 one of the big influences from George too, right? 245 00:12:38,910 --> 00:12:40,160 It’s called Origins in Displacement. 246 00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:42,750 Roque: It’s a portrait of Anaheim you don’t 247 00:12:42,750 --> 00:12:43,760 see on postcards. 248 00:12:44,430 --> 00:12:46,960 Camargo: A lot of history was hidden or was not told. 249 00:12:47,020 --> 00:12:50,880 I never really learned about it until I was reading 250 00:12:50,940 --> 00:12:54,660 all these alternative newspapers where I first 251 00:12:54,660 --> 00:12:55,800 encountered these archives. 252 00:12:56,390 --> 00:13:00,170 I am just documenting my own community, right, walking 253 00:13:00,230 --> 00:13:01,860 around, photographing friends, photographing 254 00:13:01,860 --> 00:13:05,220 family, photographing folks I was just meeting as well. 255 00:13:05,230 --> 00:13:08,090 You know, people were hitting me up from Instagram being like, 256 00:13:08,130 --> 00:13:09,710 “Hey, come to my neighborhood. Like, I'll show you 257 00:13:20,580 --> 00:13:20,610 around.” 258 00:13:20,610 --> 00:13:20,730 [Violin music] 259 00:13:20,730 --> 00:13:23,610 Roque: And the work continues—William in Anaheim 260 00:13:23,610 --> 00:13:25,210 doing work inspired by George. 261 00:13:25,790 --> 00:13:27,490 And there are now countless other Chicano 262 00:13:27,490 --> 00:13:29,750 photographers holding up their corners of the city. 263 00:13:30,750 --> 00:13:34,290 Photographers like  Chito, Banda, Frankie Orozco, Suitcase 264 00:13:34,290 --> 00:13:35,840 Joe, and Estevan Oriol. 265 00:13:36,630 --> 00:13:37,630 We’re in safe hands. 266 00:13:38,140 --> 00:13:41,420 Our culture, our community, is being recorded by this new 267 00:13:41,420 --> 00:13:42,580 generation of photographers. 268 00:13:43,990 --> 00:13:46,460 In the next few months, George is preparing to move out of 269 00:13:46,460 --> 00:13:49,660 his downtown studio space, where he’s been for 25 years. 270 00:13:50,370 --> 00:13:52,150 This is one reason why his archive is 271 00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:53,470 moving to the GRI now. 272 00:13:54,190 --> 00:13:56,620 But even as George prepares to hang up his camera, 273 00:13:57,010 --> 00:13:58,340 his work isn’t vanishing. 274 00:13:59,130 --> 00:13:59,990 It’s multiplying. 275 00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:03,410 And this is what makes him one of the most influential Southern 276 00:14:03,410 --> 00:14:06,250 California photographers, even if this is the first 277 00:14:06,250 --> 00:14:07,210 you’re hearing of his story. 278 00:14:07,210 --> 00:14:10,640 [Alonso in the background] I set up things so that we can… 279 00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:11,900 [over background chatter] Back at Getty, Idurre and 280 00:14:11,900 --> 00:14:15,160 I return to the boxes of George’s photographs—thinking 281 00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:18,230 about how images move through hands, families, and time. 282 00:14:19,010 --> 00:14:21,800 They’re being catalogued not so that they can be sealed off, but 283 00:14:21,860 --> 00:14:23,360 so that they can be findable. 284 00:14:24,060 --> 00:14:27,600 And if we do this right, they’re returnable—pop-ups 285 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:31,210 in schools and rec centers, library showings, neighborhood 286 00:14:31,220 --> 00:14:34,660 talks, and digitized sets people can search—ways to 287 00:14:34,660 --> 00:14:37,270 access their own history, their photos, their culture, 288 00:14:37,580 --> 00:14:39,660 their part of LA’s story. 289 00:14:40,230 --> 00:14:41,990 Preservation is step one. 290 00:14:42,300 --> 00:14:43,770 Circulation is step two. 291 00:14:44,170 --> 00:14:46,410 Inspiring the next generation is three. 292 00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:49,170 Alonso: The photography department is putting 293 00:14:49,170 --> 00:14:53,153 together a show on Chicano photographers and George 294 00:14:53,153 --> 00:14:54,540 is gonna be part of it. 295 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:59,780 So, in my opinion, I would like to see these photos going back 296 00:15:01,020 --> 00:15:04,950 to East LA, or South LA in many cases, because there’s a lot of 297 00:15:04,950 --> 00:15:08,850 photographs of the kids in South LA at different high schools. 298 00:15:08,850 --> 00:15:13,820 And how can you work with the kids today and show them these 299 00:15:13,820 --> 00:15:17,880 photographs and what happened and make them think about the 300 00:15:17,910 --> 00:15:21,390 history of what is happening now or the usage of images 301 00:15:21,870 --> 00:15:26,100 today because I think they’re very powerful and even though 302 00:15:26,100 --> 00:15:30,370 they’re like 60 years old, they’re still very relevant 303 00:15:30,370 --> 00:15:33,900 today because many of these issues were never resolved. 304 00:15:36,100 --> 00:15:37,330 [Quick guitar music] 305 00:15:39,170 --> 00:15:39,620 Roque: Knowing that 306 00:15:43,690 --> 00:15:47,410 Getty is preserving George Rodríguez’s archive—Getty’s 307 00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:50,690 first Chicano archive—means images of people who 308 00:15:50,690 --> 00:15:53,230 look like my family now live in Getty’s archives. 309 00:15:53,700 --> 00:15:56,380 And George’s photographs belong here not only because 310 00:15:56,380 --> 00:15:59,110 of what they catalogue but because of how they’re 311 00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:04,550 built—light, line, timing—and made from inside the community. 312 00:16:05,130 --> 00:16:07,220 He didn’t parachute in; he belonged. 313 00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:10,430 He knew how to read the noon sun, how to snap a 314 00:16:10,430 --> 00:16:13,690 crowded scene so that it reads clear and human, and 315 00:16:13,690 --> 00:16:16,190 how to wait for the breath between chant and silence. 316 00:16:17,250 --> 00:16:21,140 And he knew how to see people—leaders, workers, kids 317 00:16:21,140 --> 00:16:23,430 after school—as neighbors first. 318 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:26,190 That’s the human care you feel in each frame. 319 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:28,940 Writing this episode, I kept turning to the 320 00:16:28,940 --> 00:16:31,700 sun-faded photo of my dad that I keep on my desk. 321 00:16:32,670 --> 00:16:34,550 He’s on a break while working the fields of the 322 00:16:34,550 --> 00:16:37,800 Central Valley—no credit line, no caption, just him 323 00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:39,980 drinking water, looking straight into the camera. 324 00:16:40,700 --> 00:16:42,930 That picture is a treasure in my family. 325 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:46,250 It reminds us of the sacrifices made for a better life. 326 00:16:46,570 --> 00:16:50,510 But artistically, I can admit it leaves something to be desired. 327 00:16:50,900 --> 00:16:54,690 That’s one reason I’ve been so drawn to George’s story: because 328 00:16:54,690 --> 00:16:58,560 of how he brought studio chops to the street—and the farm. 329 00:16:59,470 --> 00:17:01,060 That craft is the difference between a 330 00:17:01,060 --> 00:17:04,010 snapshot and a photograph that enters the record. 331 00:17:04,410 --> 00:17:06,390 But history isn’t an either/or. 332 00:17:07,090 --> 00:17:10,260 These images have different homes and are equally necessary. 333 00:17:10,840 --> 00:17:14,210 My dad’s picture is our private record—family 334 00:17:14,210 --> 00:17:15,780 memory, inherited meaning. 335 00:17:16,190 --> 00:17:19,530 George’s pictures are a record the public can see—in 336 00:17:19,530 --> 00:17:22,820 Los Angeles and beyond—so other Chicanos can search, 337 00:17:22,850 --> 00:17:25,460 learn, and recognize themselves and their heritage. 338 00:17:25,990 --> 00:17:29,310 One keeps a family; the other helps keep a people visible. 339 00:17:30,010 --> 00:17:32,820 When I ask George about his legacy, he admits 340 00:17:32,830 --> 00:17:33,980 it’s hard to grasp. 341 00:17:34,650 --> 00:17:37,410 He says it’s only later that you realize you 342 00:17:37,410 --> 00:17:38,460 did something special. 343 00:17:38,510 --> 00:17:42,690 Rodriguez: You know, if I can do it because my beginnings 344 00:17:42,690 --> 00:17:44,530 are very, very minimal. 345 00:17:44,540 --> 00:17:49,730 I mean, like I say, we lived on Skid Row and I was 346 00:17:49,730 --> 00:17:50,820 raised in South Central. 347 00:17:50,820 --> 00:17:52,740 If I can do it, anyone can do it. 348 00:17:52,890 --> 00:17:55,390 Don’t let anybody tell you that you can’t do it. 349 00:17:55,810 --> 00:17:57,840 Because they did tell me I couldn’t do it. 350 00:17:58,050 --> 00:18:01,140 You don't want to listen to those people because they don’t 351 00:18:01,150 --> 00:18:03,080 know you—you might be special. 352 00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:03,650 [Music fades out] 353 00:18:06,770 --> 00:18:08,950 Roque: Recurrent is written and produced by 354 00:18:08,950 --> 00:18:12,390 me, Jaime, with creative support from Zoe Goldman. 355 00:18:12,930 --> 00:18:15,520 Our executive producer is Christopher Sprinkle. 356 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:19,090 To see the photos, head to getty dot edu slash 357 00:18:19,130 --> 00:18:21,640 podcast slash recurrent for some of my favorites. 358 00:18:22,710 --> 00:18:25,910 The museum has 41 of George Rodriguez’s images 359 00:18:25,970 --> 00:18:27,250 digitized and viewable. 360 00:18:27,670 --> 00:18:30,550 There’s a link in the show notes, and for transcripts, 361 00:18:30,570 --> 00:18:34,630 images, and additional resources, visit getty dot edu 362 00:18:34,780 --> 00:18:36,920 slash podcast slash recurrent.