1 00:00:11,900 --> 00:00:14,989 Brian Houck: Hello, I’m Brian Houck, head of Grounds and Gardens 2 00:00:14,990 --> 00:00:16,199 at the J. Paul Getty Trust. 3 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:18,889 Welcome to Art + Ideas. 4 00:00:19,540 --> 00:00:23,890 I’m your host for a three-episode series with artful gardeners 5 00:00:23,980 --> 00:00:25,050 in Southern California. 6 00:00:29,540 --> 00:00:32,480 Lucinda McDade: Whenever I take people in there, I say—and it’s not a very 7 00:00:32,480 --> 00:00:37,150 large room—I say, “You’re now in the presence of millions and millions and 8 00:00:37,170 --> 00:00:42,270 millions of living beings. Fortunately, most of them are very small, and 9 00:00:42,270 --> 00:00:43,870 most of them are very dormant.” 10 00:00:45,920 --> 00:00:50,230 Houk: In this episode, I speak with Lucinda McDade, executive director 11 00:00:50,230 --> 00:00:51,860 of the California Botanic Garden. 12 00:00:57,810 --> 00:01:01,540 In California, there are roughly 6,500 native plants. 13 00:01:01,960 --> 00:01:04,369 Many are found only in California. 14 00:01:05,179 --> 00:01:09,629 These plants are incredibly diverse, adapted to the wide range 15 00:01:09,730 --> 00:01:14,570 of climates and habitats, from the High Sierra to Death Valley, from 16 00:01:14,570 --> 00:01:18,610 the foggy forests in the north to chapparal and desert in the south. 17 00:01:19,380 --> 00:01:23,649 And conserving these diverse plants is increasingly important as we see the 18 00:01:23,650 --> 00:01:28,449 damaging impact of human encroachment and climate threats to the environment. 19 00:01:29,639 --> 00:01:34,110 The California Botanic Garden in Claremont was ahead of its time 20 00:01:34,110 --> 00:01:35,809 in conserving native plants. 21 00:01:36,320 --> 00:01:42,149 Founded by the visionary Susanna Bixby Bryant in the 1920s, the garden now serves 22 00:01:42,150 --> 00:01:47,250 as a critical home to rare plants from across the state as well as a seed bank. 23 00:01:47,260 --> 00:01:50,410 Lucinda McDade oversees the garden. 24 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:54,890 I recently got the chance to walk through it with her and nerd out about 25 00:01:54,890 --> 00:01:57,499 our favorite California native species. 26 00:02:00,509 --> 00:02:02,430 Lucinda, it’s good to be here with you today. 27 00:02:02,539 --> 00:02:03,760 McDade: It’s very good to have you here. 28 00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:04,026 Always love to host people at our garden. 29 00:02:04,059 --> 00:02:08,000 Houck: Your title is executive director of the California Botanic Garden. 30 00:02:08,400 --> 00:02:09,850 How long have you been in that role? 31 00:02:10,229 --> 00:02:11,830 McDade: Very close to 10 years. 32 00:02:11,870 --> 00:02:15,010 And I started as interim executive director and then 33 00:02:15,010 --> 00:02:16,350 became executive director. 34 00:02:16,389 --> 00:02:20,870 As I joke, the trustees asked me to lose the interim part of the 35 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:25,290 title about six months after I became interim executive director. 36 00:02:25,550 --> 00:02:27,250 But I have been at the garden since 2006. 37 00:02:28,630 --> 00:02:30,770 I came as director of research. 38 00:02:31,130 --> 00:02:34,570 Houck: We just walked through the front entrance of the California Botanic Garden. 39 00:02:34,599 --> 00:02:37,470 Can you tell us a little bit about what we walked into? 40 00:02:37,590 --> 00:02:39,999 McDade: We call this the California Welcome Garden. 41 00:02:40,609 --> 00:02:44,120 And we redid it just a very short time ago. 42 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:48,420 Interestingly enough, when we were summoning our courage to reopen, after 43 00:02:48,430 --> 00:02:54,269 being closed completely for—what—two months, owing to COVID, we realized 44 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:58,089 that this part of our garden was the narrowest part, and it’s the 45 00:02:58,090 --> 00:02:59,899 part that everybody walks through. 46 00:02:59,959 --> 00:03:00,339 Houck: Sure. 47 00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:04,650 McDade: We have an 86-acre, big, funnel-shaped area, right? 48 00:03:04,650 --> 00:03:08,520 And then this little, skinny neck that we were putting everybody through. 49 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:12,970 And so we widened it and we improved it and we replanted it. 50 00:03:12,990 --> 00:03:14,760 It had been planted to desert. 51 00:03:15,210 --> 00:03:18,959 There were a lotta spiky things right up by the trail, and we didn’t think it was 52 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:21,550 all—the world’s most friendly welcoming. 53 00:03:22,420 --> 00:03:24,370 So you’re in the California Welcome Garden. 54 00:03:24,380 --> 00:03:25,450 You are coming in. 55 00:03:25,450 --> 00:03:28,460 We love this because you have a beautiful view of the San Gabriel 56 00:03:28,460 --> 00:03:30,170 Mountains, snow-covered in the winter. 57 00:03:30,770 --> 00:03:31,870 Just spectacular. 58 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:36,800 And then this leads to what we call our Southern California Gardens Areas, 59 00:03:36,830 --> 00:03:41,940 which are strung like jewels on a bead, out to a new area that we just 60 00:03:41,940 --> 00:03:43,420 finished, called the Forest Pavilion. 61 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:44,269 Houck: All right. 62 00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:45,959 Well, let’s keep going. 63 00:03:48,210 --> 00:03:51,009 All right, I’m gonna stop right here, ’cause we just passed this Mahonia. 64 00:03:51,009 --> 00:03:51,719 McDade: Uh-huh. 65 00:03:52,359 --> 00:03:54,120 Berberis now; they’re all Berberis. 66 00:03:54,260 --> 00:03:55,579 Houck: Oh, this shows my age. 67 00:03:57,600 --> 00:03:59,740 I don’t usually see a clump this large. 68 00:04:00,150 --> 00:04:01,640 This looks fantastic. 69 00:04:01,880 --> 00:04:03,079 McDade: They do look good, don’t they? 70 00:04:03,090 --> 00:04:06,459 They are growing actively and they look very, very happy, yeah. 71 00:04:06,710 --> 00:04:09,789 Houck: But when I think of Mahonia, I think of the Pacific Northwest. 72 00:04:09,799 --> 00:04:09,819 McDade: Yeah. 73 00:04:09,819 --> 00:04:11,910 Houck: I don’t think of Southern California. 74 00:04:12,150 --> 00:04:14,070 McDade: Oh, we have lots of native Berberis. 75 00:04:14,260 --> 00:04:14,840 Lots. 76 00:04:15,230 --> 00:04:19,810 In fact, one of the most spectacular is this one right here. 77 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:21,689 Houck: We passed it without noticing it? 78 00:04:21,690 --> 00:04:22,820 McDade: This is a Berberis. 79 00:04:23,599 --> 00:04:24,089 Houck: Really? 80 00:04:24,130 --> 00:04:24,590 McDade: Yeah. 81 00:04:24,590 --> 00:04:27,140 Yeah, you’ll convince yourself that it is when you touch a leaf. 82 00:04:27,190 --> 00:04:28,930 Houck: It’s—Yes, it’s... 83 00:04:28,980 --> 00:04:29,030 McDade: Pokey. 84 00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:30,660 Houck: ...sufficiently pokey and prickly and— 85 00:04:30,690 --> 00:04:32,390 McDade: Yeah, yeah, pokey, yeah. 86 00:04:32,700 --> 00:04:36,409 This is Berberis navinii, which is actually an endangered species. 87 00:04:36,409 --> 00:04:38,609 And there’s hardly any in the wild. 88 00:04:38,900 --> 00:04:43,780 We had a project; one of our staff crawled all over Southern California 89 00:04:43,780 --> 00:04:47,419 looking for individuals of this thing that were reported to exist. 90 00:04:47,799 --> 00:04:50,450 And found quite a few of them, but not really very many. 91 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:52,809 Here in our garden, it plants itself. 92 00:04:52,810 --> 00:04:55,540 Or rather, birds plant it, ’cause they’re bird-dispersed. 93 00:04:55,930 --> 00:04:56,540 It’s interesting. 94 00:04:56,830 --> 00:05:00,359 Houck: I know this plant, but I’ve never seen one this large. 95 00:05:00,410 --> 00:05:01,020 McDade: They’re huge. 96 00:05:01,020 --> 00:05:03,289 They are kind of obscenely large here. 97 00:05:03,290 --> 00:05:04,330 It’s a little frightening. 98 00:05:07,609 --> 00:05:11,870 The California flora is absolutely amazing because there’s just a 99 00:05:11,870 --> 00:05:18,950 number of genera, like Berberis, that absolutely go crazy here and make 100 00:05:19,170 --> 00:05:21,419 bazillions—dozens and dozens of species. 101 00:05:21,420 --> 00:05:26,250 Manzanitas, there’s—what—60 or 70 species of manzanita in California. 102 00:05:26,550 --> 00:05:29,510 I don’t know how many Berberis there are, but there’s quite a few. 103 00:05:29,860 --> 00:05:34,500 On the other hand, that plant right behind you, right there with that interpretive 104 00:05:34,500 --> 00:05:37,440 sign in front of it, that’s red shanks... 105 00:05:37,490 --> 00:05:37,640 Houck: Yes. 106 00:05:37,640 --> 00:05:40,469 McDade: ...which is related to our chamise. 107 00:05:42,029 --> 00:05:45,090 The genus of that is Adenostoma, and there’s only two. 108 00:05:45,980 --> 00:05:46,170 Houck: Right. 109 00:05:46,170 --> 00:05:46,350 McDade: Two. 110 00:05:46,450 --> 00:05:47,390 In the whole state. 111 00:05:47,390 --> 00:05:49,450 Why didn’t that thing go crazy? 112 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:52,630 Houck: We have a lot of this in the Santa Monica Mountains, by the Getty Center. 113 00:05:52,670 --> 00:05:52,920 McDade: Yeah. 114 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:54,309 Houck: And it’s amazing. 115 00:05:54,370 --> 00:05:55,049 McDade: They’re a beautiful plant. 116 00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:57,509 Houck: The shaggy red bark is fantastic. 117 00:05:57,889 --> 00:05:59,739 And they have lasted through our fires. 118 00:05:59,750 --> 00:05:59,770 McDade: Yeah. 119 00:05:59,770 --> 00:05:59,792 They’re fire-adapted, yeah. 120 00:05:59,799 --> 00:06:02,396 Houck: Just went right over it and then stumps sprouted right through it. 121 00:06:02,396 --> 00:06:03,560 McDade: Yeah, they’re fire-adapted. 122 00:06:03,930 --> 00:06:07,070 There’s two approaches to surviving fires, when you’re a plant like that. 123 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:09,130 One is to stump sprout. 124 00:06:09,150 --> 00:06:12,509 Basically, the aboveground parts get burned, but then it comes right back 125 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:15,560 great, ’cause it’s got a mature root system that’s already in touch with 126 00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:16,980 all that it needs from the ground. 127 00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:18,700 Or you—by seeds. 128 00:06:18,820 --> 00:06:22,120 So some disperse their seeds in association with fires, 129 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:23,760 and grow back from that. 130 00:06:24,150 --> 00:06:27,170 Houck: You said a technical word a little earlier, genera. 131 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:28,270 McDade: Uh-oh. 132 00:06:28,300 --> 00:06:29,090 Genera. 133 00:06:29,950 --> 00:06:30,290 Houck: All right. 134 00:06:30,300 --> 00:06:34,754 So for those folks who may be listening and not clue into that, we have genus 135 00:06:34,754 --> 00:06:37,020 and species to make the scientific name. 136 00:06:37,030 --> 00:06:38,820 So genera is—? 137 00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:40,430 McDade: Plural from genus. 138 00:06:40,430 --> 00:06:40,710 Houck: Okay. 139 00:06:40,990 --> 00:06:41,290 McDade: Yeah. 140 00:06:41,350 --> 00:06:42,280 Don’t say genuses. 141 00:06:43,030 --> 00:06:46,899 That causes the ears of scientists to be very painful. 142 00:06:47,210 --> 00:06:49,580 Houck: I think I’ve done that, at one point. 143 00:06:49,580 --> 00:06:49,689 McDade: Genera. 144 00:06:49,799 --> 00:06:51,069 It sounds so elegant. 145 00:06:51,219 --> 00:06:52,469 Oh, it’s a bunny. 146 00:06:52,750 --> 00:06:53,820 We have a lotta bunnies. 147 00:06:54,340 --> 00:06:59,130 Houck: I’m also gonna back up to say if I was gonna start learning about 148 00:06:59,190 --> 00:07:04,950 Southern California plants, most people might be aware of the USDA zones. 149 00:07:05,990 --> 00:07:08,769 I know we don’t always use that in Southern California. 150 00:07:09,190 --> 00:07:14,210 In my understanding, the most popular sort of go to are the Sunset zones. 151 00:07:15,030 --> 00:07:18,570 But what would you recommend to somebody if they were trying to 152 00:07:18,570 --> 00:07:20,789 learn about California zones? 153 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:20,820 McDade: Yeah. 154 00:07:21,200 --> 00:07:28,370 So in California—and this is even up to the Bay Area—it’s not so much how far 155 00:07:28,370 --> 00:07:30,359 north you are, but how far inland you are. 156 00:07:30,810 --> 00:07:37,580 We’re only—what—50 miles inland from the coast here, and still, our winters 157 00:07:37,580 --> 00:07:41,230 are much colder and our summers are much hotter than right by the coast. 158 00:07:41,530 --> 00:07:45,109 And that’s the same if you go up to San Francisco and go 50 miles 159 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:48,500 inland; the winters are much colder and the summers are much hotter. 160 00:07:48,770 --> 00:07:52,000 But San Francisco has a very moderate climate, right? 161 00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:56,180 And also elevation, of course, because we have a wonderful 162 00:07:56,180 --> 00:07:57,480 state that’s full of mountains. 163 00:07:57,780 --> 00:08:00,469 You know, the tool that we are recommending more and more to 164 00:08:00,469 --> 00:08:05,109 people for what they should plant in their area is called Calscape. 165 00:08:05,379 --> 00:08:09,359 It’s a digital tool that is made available to us by the 166 00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:11,080 California Native Plant Society. 167 00:08:11,530 --> 00:08:15,370 You can put in your zip code and it will sort of generate a list 168 00:08:15,370 --> 00:08:17,099 of suggested plants for you. 169 00:08:17,670 --> 00:08:21,609 And a little bit more information, and you can refine the list quite well. 170 00:08:21,740 --> 00:08:22,150 So. 171 00:08:22,350 --> 00:08:23,050 Houck: Thank you for that. 172 00:08:23,090 --> 00:08:23,659 McDade: Yeah, you bet. 173 00:08:25,289 --> 00:08:28,140 Houck: Your name used to be the Rancho Santa Ana Botanic Garden. 174 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:28,539 McDade: Yeah. 175 00:08:28,690 --> 00:08:32,559 Houck: And you’ve changed your name to the California Botanic Garden. 176 00:08:33,620 --> 00:08:36,179 Can you tell me how that happened and why that happened? 177 00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:37,360 McDade: Absolutely. 178 00:08:37,799 --> 00:08:44,800 So we were called Rancho Santa Ana, because we were founded on the ranch of 179 00:08:44,830 --> 00:08:50,950 Susanna Bixby Bryant’s family, which was in Orange County, but not in Santa Ana. 180 00:08:50,950 --> 00:08:52,460 It was near Yorba Linda. 181 00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:57,400 We were there in Orange County, near Yorba Linda, until the late ’40s. 182 00:08:57,969 --> 00:09:00,660 In the—in the ’40s, a couple of terrible things happened. 183 00:09:00,670 --> 00:09:06,290 One is that there was a horrible Santa Ana-driven fire that burned a huge part of 184 00:09:06,290 --> 00:09:08,680 the garden and killed a lot of the plants. 185 00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:11,819 So that must’ve been devastating to deal with. 186 00:09:11,849 --> 00:09:12,239 Houck: Sure. 187 00:09:12,270 --> 00:09:15,779 McDade: And then Susanna died unexpectedly in, I think, 1947. 188 00:09:16,910 --> 00:09:18,170 She wasn’t that old. 189 00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:20,950 She wasn’t understood to be in poor health. 190 00:09:21,230 --> 00:09:25,470 She had taken a trip up to Santa Barbara and she never went home. 191 00:09:26,020 --> 00:09:30,290 And so all of a sudden, the founding sort of central organizing 192 00:09:30,290 --> 00:09:32,300 principle for the garden was gone. 193 00:09:32,750 --> 00:09:36,950 She had just, though, hired a person named Philip Munz, who had 194 00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:42,079 been at Pomona College, and who had gone back east to Cornell. 195 00:09:42,110 --> 00:09:47,020 She had hired him from Cornell, to come out and be her first scientific director. 196 00:09:47,450 --> 00:09:50,920 She had basically been functioning more or less as scientific director, as 197 00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:54,229 director, for the 25 years to that date. 198 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:56,239 Houck: Munz is a famous name... 199 00:09:56,459 --> 00:09:56,599 McDade: Absolutely. 200 00:09:56,599 --> 00:09:57,399 Houck: ...in the world of horticulture. 201 00:09:57,600 --> 00:09:59,439 McDade: So Munz had been at Pomona. 202 00:09:59,450 --> 00:10:03,480 He knew about the Claremont area, he knew that there was a consortium 203 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:07,489 of academic institutions developing here, and Munz was convinced that 204 00:10:07,490 --> 00:10:09,320 the garden would be better off here. 205 00:10:09,910 --> 00:10:12,110 I started with that part of the fire. 206 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:15,500 To me, I can’t imagine anything more daunting than moving this 207 00:10:15,540 --> 00:10:17,089 garden anywhere, you know? 208 00:10:17,089 --> 00:10:17,116 Houck: I know. 209 00:10:17,130 --> 00:10:19,320 McDade: So how did they get the courage to do it? 210 00:10:19,320 --> 00:10:23,170 And I actually think that fire, given that they’d been through already that 211 00:10:23,170 --> 00:10:27,060 devastating fire and had to deal with that much of a recovery, you know, 212 00:10:27,060 --> 00:10:31,270 maybe it made them feel like, “Well, we did that, so we can probably do this.” 213 00:10:31,830 --> 00:10:37,050 And so then for the next—Until 2020—so for 70 years—we were Rancho Santa 214 00:10:37,060 --> 00:10:39,520 Ana Botanic Garden, in Claremont. 215 00:10:40,090 --> 00:10:42,510 You all are Southern Californians. 216 00:10:42,559 --> 00:10:45,540 You are well aware that Santa Ana is a place. 217 00:10:46,010 --> 00:10:47,069 It’s a real place. 218 00:10:47,170 --> 00:10:48,159 We are not there. 219 00:10:48,260 --> 00:10:50,010 We actually never were there. 220 00:10:50,390 --> 00:10:55,540 Also, how many Rancho Santa Somethings are there in Southern California? 221 00:10:55,550 --> 00:11:01,380 We would get called Rancho Santa Anita, Rancho Santa Fe, Rancho San Antonio. 222 00:11:01,380 --> 00:11:03,719 You know, just on and on and on, all kinds’a things. 223 00:11:04,109 --> 00:11:08,110 The other aspect of it is that it didn’t tell people anything 224 00:11:08,110 --> 00:11:09,480 about who we are and what we do. 225 00:11:09,670 --> 00:11:12,860 We also had people who thought they were coming to a ranch, little kids 226 00:11:12,860 --> 00:11:14,729 saying, “Grandma, where’s the horses? 227 00:11:14,730 --> 00:11:15,890 Isn’t this a ranch?” 228 00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:19,580 Houck: It sounds like Susanna Bixby Bryant was ahead of her time. 229 00:11:19,830 --> 00:11:20,570 McDade: Absolutely. 230 00:11:20,570 --> 00:11:21,759 The woman was prescient. 231 00:11:21,770 --> 00:11:25,569 How did somebody realize, in the late ’20s, that the native plants 232 00:11:25,570 --> 00:11:27,610 of California were under duress? 233 00:11:27,700 --> 00:11:29,410 You know, how did she know that? 234 00:11:29,420 --> 00:11:30,460 She was amazing. 235 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:31,966 Houck: We need a few more of her still in today’s world. 236 00:11:31,970 --> 00:11:33,670 McDade: We need a few more of her, yeah. 237 00:11:33,670 --> 00:11:39,919 And in 1934, she directed us to conserve the rarest and replenish their stock. 238 00:11:40,260 --> 00:11:43,250 It’s really a remarkably prescient statement, I think. 239 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:45,980 She was a amazingly determined woman. 240 00:11:46,450 --> 00:11:48,790 She was part of founding our herbarium. 241 00:11:48,790 --> 00:11:52,940 A herbarium is a scientific collection of plant specimens for 242 00:11:52,940 --> 00:11:54,770 study and advancing knowledge. 243 00:11:55,059 --> 00:11:59,250 She was right out there with other people in the garden, collecting plants and 244 00:11:59,260 --> 00:12:01,510 bringing them and starting the herbarium. 245 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:05,750 We can easily pull Susanna Bixby Bryant specimens for you to see. 246 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:09,860 It means a lot to various of her family members, for example, to see those 247 00:12:09,860 --> 00:12:12,300 specimens that she was part of collecting. 248 00:12:12,590 --> 00:12:16,219 She was also absolutely clear that she wanted a botanical 249 00:12:16,219 --> 00:12:18,819 library of research quality. 250 00:12:18,920 --> 00:12:21,900 Houck: I didn’t realize we owed her such a debt of gratitude. 251 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:22,468 McDade: Yeah, I have a— 252 00:12:22,468 --> 00:12:22,955 Houck: For all of the work she has done. 253 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:24,960 McDade: I have her picture right above my desk. 254 00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:28,290 She stares at me every day, so—She’s checking on me. 255 00:12:28,290 --> 00:12:34,680 Houck: So you had mentioned that Susanna Bixby Bryant was prescient in sort of her 256 00:12:34,730 --> 00:12:37,759 California landscape preservation focus. 257 00:12:37,850 --> 00:12:40,760 And I don’t know that I’m saying that exactly right, but could you maybe 258 00:12:40,830 --> 00:12:42,780 tell us what was going on in her mind? 259 00:12:43,470 --> 00:12:46,780 McDade: I’m not sure I can tell you what was going on in Susanna’s mind, but I 260 00:12:46,780 --> 00:12:51,870 can tell you that when she had this idea to found a garden that would be devoted 261 00:12:51,880 --> 00:12:57,839 uniquely and only to California native plants, she consulted a huge number 262 00:12:57,840 --> 00:12:59,930 of people all across North America. 263 00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:04,800 She consulted people at Berkeley, she consulted people at Harvard. 264 00:13:05,250 --> 00:13:10,099 She consulted with Jepson, who’s, like, the father of the California flora and 265 00:13:10,170 --> 00:13:13,150 as I understand it, they unanimously told her that it couldn’t be done. 266 00:13:13,790 --> 00:13:17,740 That what she wanted to do couldn’t, shouldn’t be done; it wouldn’t work; 267 00:13:17,740 --> 00:13:20,990 she couldn’t pull together plants from across the state in one place. 268 00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:26,670 Furthermore, she had the very, I think at that time, very novel idea that part of 269 00:13:26,670 --> 00:13:31,040 the garden should be planted to be plant communities, the plants with which... 270 00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:31,115 Houck: Yes. 271 00:13:31,190 --> 00:13:31,506 Yes, yes, yes. 272 00:13:31,510 --> 00:13:33,010 McDade: ...the plants occur in nature. 273 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:38,879 And you know, you’ve been to European gardens where they have the roses, 274 00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:43,750 and then they have the Crassulaceae, and then they have the—They’re 275 00:13:43,750 --> 00:13:45,670 kind of organized taxonomically. 276 00:13:45,719 --> 00:13:46,109 Houck: Correct. 277 00:13:46,289 --> 00:13:49,430 Which is how the scientific naming sort of came through. 278 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:49,660 McDade: That’s right, yeah. 279 00:13:49,660 --> 00:13:52,380 Houck: So that was a natural extension of what was done before. 280 00:13:52,380 --> 00:13:54,130 McDade: That’s how Linnaeus’s garden is organized. 281 00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:57,400 And so they sort of wanted her to do something like that. 282 00:13:57,400 --> 00:13:58,420 And she’s like, “No. 283 00:13:58,530 --> 00:14:05,110 Not doing that.” And so we have this great quote from her that—She must’ve written 284 00:14:05,110 --> 00:14:08,670 or said this sometime in the mid-’20s, just as she was really getting going. 285 00:14:08,670 --> 00:14:14,050 She said, “And now, having listened to all of this very sage advice, 286 00:14:14,389 --> 00:14:18,230 in the traditional female manner, I am going to do exactly what I 287 00:14:18,230 --> 00:14:19,910 intended to do from the beginning.” 288 00:14:20,500 --> 00:14:21,060 Houck: It’s brilliant. 289 00:14:21,550 --> 00:14:24,379 McDade: It’s just—It’s absolutely terrific, yeah. 290 00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:28,099 So yeah, she went ahead and basically did it. 291 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:29,210 Houck: Well, it’s such common sense. 292 00:14:29,230 --> 00:14:29,440 McDade: Yeah. 293 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:32,940 Houck: I mean, it’s so surprising now, that that seems novel or 294 00:14:32,940 --> 00:14:37,760 revolutionary, because that is such the right approach that we’re doing now. 295 00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:37,875 McDade: Exactly. 296 00:14:37,990 --> 00:14:38,880 Houck: It makes such sense. 297 00:14:38,889 --> 00:14:38,909 McDade: Yeah. 298 00:14:38,929 --> 00:14:39,780 Exactly, yeah. 299 00:14:40,100 --> 00:14:43,860 As I said, we’re the largest garden in the world devoted to California native plants. 300 00:14:43,890 --> 00:14:46,410 We have the entire state as our purview. 301 00:14:46,410 --> 00:14:50,560 Susanna directed us to grow as many plants of the state of California 302 00:14:50,929 --> 00:14:55,580 as we could on our site in Southern California, and that’s obviously a work in 303 00:14:55,580 --> 00:14:57,540 progress, to understand which those are. 304 00:14:58,010 --> 00:15:01,120 We also are still exploring our site here. 305 00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:05,290 We actually have kind of a complicated and interesting site related 306 00:15:05,290 --> 00:15:07,200 to that, which is Indian Hill. 307 00:15:07,750 --> 00:15:09,439 That’s actually Indian Hill Mesa. 308 00:15:09,450 --> 00:15:14,210 It’s a giant clay lens, stranded lens from the San Gabriels. 309 00:15:14,660 --> 00:15:18,720 So this used to be connected to the San Gabriels, and everything else washed 310 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:20,500 away but that giant chunk of clay. 311 00:15:21,340 --> 00:15:22,790 Houck: I didn’t know that’s where the name came from. 312 00:15:22,790 --> 00:15:22,800 McDade: Yeah. 313 00:15:22,810 --> 00:15:23,680 That’s where the name came from. 314 00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:27,850 Houck: So we have a north-south-running giant chunk of clay, which 315 00:15:27,850 --> 00:15:28,960 is a different soil type. 316 00:15:28,969 --> 00:15:28,989 McDade: Yeah. 317 00:15:28,989 --> 00:15:31,990 It’s a different soil type, greater water-holding capacity than under 318 00:15:31,990 --> 00:15:33,919 here, which is cobble, basically. 319 00:15:34,029 --> 00:15:37,079 Houck: So that gives you the opportunity for microclimates 320 00:15:37,079 --> 00:15:38,400 that other people don’t have. 321 00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:38,579 McDade: Exactly. 322 00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:39,990 You get it right away. 323 00:15:42,030 --> 00:15:42,760 Houck: That’s wonderful. 324 00:15:44,139 --> 00:15:45,474 I feel like a lightbulb just went off. 325 00:15:45,474 --> 00:15:45,597 McDade: Right. 326 00:15:45,719 --> 00:15:47,880 That way’s east; that way’s west. 327 00:15:47,889 --> 00:15:51,140 So if you’re here on a hot summer afternoon, where do you wanna be? 328 00:15:51,549 --> 00:15:54,980 You wanna be right here, as the shade comes over and this 329 00:15:54,980 --> 00:15:56,680 area gets into the shade first. 330 00:15:56,700 --> 00:16:00,260 And we also get cold air drainage off of Indian Hill, which is a 331 00:16:00,260 --> 00:16:03,730 bizarre phenomenon, but it absolutely happens, even in the summer. 332 00:16:04,010 --> 00:16:08,050 If you walk down one of our ramps, you can feel your feet getting cooler as 333 00:16:08,059 --> 00:16:09,810 you come down in the late afternoon. 334 00:16:09,810 --> 00:16:11,589 Houck: So it just retains that much moisture... 335 00:16:11,609 --> 00:16:12,259 McDade: Some—Yeah, exactly. 336 00:16:12,259 --> 00:16:14,270 Houck: ...and it’s that evaporative cooling possibly happens. 337 00:16:14,270 --> 00:16:14,290 McDade: Yeah, yeah. 338 00:16:14,290 --> 00:16:17,200 Of course in the winter, it’s freezing when you get to the bottom and you wish 339 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:18,880 you’d brought your hat and gloves, but— 340 00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:22,280 Yeah, so it’s a very interesting site to work with. 341 00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:27,460 We don’t know why, but actually, a not-so-well-kept secret is that 342 00:16:27,500 --> 00:16:30,200 our predecessors planted it wrong. 343 00:16:30,789 --> 00:16:34,120 We run to the north, basically south to north. 344 00:16:34,450 --> 00:16:37,660 And they decided, “Well, we’ll put Southern California in the south and 345 00:16:37,660 --> 00:16:43,099 Northern California in the north.” But the nicest part of our garden for people 346 00:16:43,099 --> 00:16:47,449 and plants is this southern part, east of Indian Hill Mesa. So they put the 347 00:16:47,449 --> 00:16:49,780 desert here, which doesn’t belong here. 348 00:16:50,300 --> 00:16:50,709 Houck: Got it. 349 00:16:50,730 --> 00:16:53,290 McDade: And eventually, we’ll get that fixed, but it will take a while. 350 00:16:53,750 --> 00:16:56,010 Houck: I know I really appreciate you claiming the state. 351 00:16:56,099 --> 00:16:58,239 I mean, that is your mission. 352 00:16:58,599 --> 00:17:00,139 That is what you’re doing. 353 00:17:00,309 --> 00:17:01,389 So how do you do that? 354 00:17:01,410 --> 00:17:06,509 So how do you preserve the plants of the state, conserve them—I see 355 00:17:06,510 --> 00:17:11,785 the plants here in the garden, but you have other ways to do that. 356 00:17:11,940 --> 00:17:12,130 McDade: Yes. 357 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:13,040 We absolutely do. 358 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:17,430 So first of all, I want to make sure you’re aware that you’re in a garden that 359 00:17:17,430 --> 00:17:19,329 also happens to be a living collection. 360 00:17:20,049 --> 00:17:25,369 So each one of these plants—except the weeds, as I say—was collected in the wild. 361 00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:30,470 We know where it came from and we have a very detailed database that tracks it. 362 00:17:30,980 --> 00:17:34,560 And if we walk up to some of them and I get in the right corner 363 00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:36,560 of a shrub, we can find the tag. 364 00:17:36,969 --> 00:17:37,980 They’re all mapped. 365 00:17:38,099 --> 00:17:41,979 They are all part of a database, and we have really detailed knowledge 366 00:17:41,980 --> 00:17:45,250 of where—This one right here, this one that we lost in the windstorm, 367 00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:50,330 the seeds were collected at Torrey Pines, and it was planted in 1950. 368 00:17:50,370 --> 00:17:51,199 Houck: This was a torrey pine? 369 00:17:51,199 --> 00:17:52,260 McDade: This was a torrey pine. 370 00:17:52,660 --> 00:17:52,930 Yeah. 371 00:17:52,930 --> 00:17:56,920 The other thing that’s interesting is that the torrey pines that we plant here 372 00:17:57,250 --> 00:18:01,210 grow tall and straight and magnificent, and look nothing like the torrey pines 373 00:18:01,210 --> 00:18:03,850 at Torrey Pines State Park, where of course, they’re in the howling 374 00:18:03,860 --> 00:18:05,919 wind and sea spray and all of that. 375 00:18:06,210 --> 00:18:11,909 So we preserve them by growing them from wild-collected seeds 376 00:18:11,910 --> 00:18:13,550 or cuttings here in the garden. 377 00:18:14,009 --> 00:18:16,329 But we are the California seed bank. 378 00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:21,220 So there’s a little building right over there that has 80 percent of 379 00:18:21,220 --> 00:18:25,570 the seeds of California native plants that are in seed banks anywhere. 380 00:18:26,099 --> 00:18:27,370 And they’re right over there. 381 00:18:28,070 --> 00:18:33,200 Houck: So the seeds are held to have a storage of them. 382 00:18:33,330 --> 00:18:36,879 And I’m assuming they’re refrigerated somehow. 383 00:18:36,879 --> 00:18:37,300 McDade: They’re frozen. 384 00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:38,270 Houck: They’re frozen. 385 00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:38,889 McDade: Yeah. 386 00:18:38,910 --> 00:18:42,900 Houck: Just from my layman’s perspective, you could unfreeze them 387 00:18:42,940 --> 00:18:47,359 and start them wherever you needed to in the future, in a hospitable place. 388 00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:47,504 McDade: Exactly. 389 00:18:47,650 --> 00:18:48,200 That’s right. 390 00:18:48,270 --> 00:18:48,550 Yeah. 391 00:18:48,929 --> 00:18:52,670 When you make a seed bank that’s for—a collection that’s for conservation 392 00:18:52,670 --> 00:18:57,230 purposes, you don’t just walk up to that tree and grab 50 seeds off of it. 393 00:18:57,680 --> 00:19:03,180 Instead, my joke or my metaphor to explain it to you is if we’re gonna preserve 394 00:19:03,180 --> 00:19:05,250 humans, you know, which of us do you want? 395 00:19:05,820 --> 00:19:09,159 And obviously, you don’t want just one of us; you want a sample of humans, ’cause 396 00:19:09,170 --> 00:19:14,230 you want our genetic diversity and our adaptability to different climates and et 397 00:19:14,230 --> 00:19:18,550 cetera to be represented in your little capsule of humans that you’re gonna save. 398 00:19:18,860 --> 00:19:19,889 Same with plants. 399 00:19:20,570 --> 00:19:24,310 We have every reason to think that plants in nature are genetically diverse. 400 00:19:24,310 --> 00:19:26,850 The one that’s over there is different genetically from 401 00:19:26,850 --> 00:19:27,669 the one that’s over there. 402 00:19:27,670 --> 00:19:30,060 And so you wanna capture that genetic diversity. 403 00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:31,490 So we have teams. 404 00:19:31,530 --> 00:19:33,980 Probably have a team out in the field right this minute, making 405 00:19:33,980 --> 00:19:38,110 a conservation seed collection of something probably over in the desert, 406 00:19:38,110 --> 00:19:41,430 because you know they have had such wonderful monsoonal rains this year 407 00:19:41,430 --> 00:19:45,560 that the deserts are working out great for us, for late summer seed banking. 408 00:19:46,190 --> 00:19:48,879 And what they do is they survey an area. 409 00:19:49,310 --> 00:19:54,650 They say, “Okay, it looks like we’re in this area, and it’s maybe, you know, 100 410 00:19:54,700 --> 00:19:58,000 meters, 300 feet by, you know, whatever. 411 00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:00,159 And the plants are pretty dense. 412 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:02,909 And so what we’re gonna do is we’re gonna walk through it and 413 00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:07,400 stop every, you know, 10 paces and collect seeds off of that plant.” 414 00:20:07,820 --> 00:20:11,230 And then you keep those seeds separate from the seeds of 415 00:20:11,230 --> 00:20:12,440 the next one that you collect. 416 00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:14,469 So it’s extremely painstaking. 417 00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:19,140 We call it collecting along maternal lines, ’cause the plant that made those 418 00:20:19,140 --> 00:20:21,090 seeds is the mother of those seeds. 419 00:20:21,099 --> 00:20:24,359 So that’s maternal line one; your next one that you stop at 420 00:20:24,359 --> 00:20:26,280 is maternal line two, et cetera. 421 00:20:26,670 --> 00:20:30,250 So then you get back and you have to clean those seeds very carefully. 422 00:20:30,740 --> 00:20:36,179 Seeds, in general, have very strong dormancy mechanisms, and they will 423 00:20:36,259 --> 00:20:39,979 freeze wonderfully, and then emerge from the freezer and grow just fine. 424 00:20:40,510 --> 00:20:43,949 But if you put them in there with junk around them, like pulpy fruit 425 00:20:43,950 --> 00:20:45,980 or something, that stuff rots. 426 00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:48,400 And when it rots, it takes the seed with it. 427 00:20:48,410 --> 00:20:49,450 So it kills the seed. 428 00:20:49,450 --> 00:20:50,460 So you’ve gotta clean. 429 00:20:50,460 --> 00:20:56,210 And so our people spend hours meticulously pulling the stuff away from the seeds. 430 00:20:56,290 --> 00:20:59,250 Houck: I’m imagining an army of volunteers doing this. 431 00:20:59,820 --> 00:21:01,430 McDade: We have quite a few volunteers. 432 00:21:01,430 --> 00:21:03,040 We also have interns. 433 00:21:03,530 --> 00:21:07,240 We have seasonal people, ’cause it doesn’t necessarily happen all year round. 434 00:21:07,420 --> 00:21:07,680 Houck: Sure. 435 00:21:07,970 --> 00:21:09,090 McDade: The seed bank is wonderful. 436 00:21:09,250 --> 00:21:14,030 Whenever I take people in there, I say—and it’s not a very large room—I say, “You’re 437 00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:18,589 now in the presence of millions and millions and millions of living beings. 438 00:21:19,049 --> 00:21:25,400 Fortunately, most of them are very small, and most of them are very dormant.” So 439 00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:29,520 they’re just in their envelopes or their little plastic jars or whatever, in 440 00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:34,920 their—in their giant freezers. And they’re just giant domestic freezers, minus 20. 441 00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:38,770 Houck: I’m gonna have to, like, reserve that image for moments of reflection, 442 00:21:39,070 --> 00:21:40,550 ’cause that’s a little overpowering. 443 00:21:40,610 --> 00:21:40,879 McDade: Yeah. 444 00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:41,629 It is, yeah. 445 00:21:41,750 --> 00:21:44,620 But I can, you know, take out one seed container, and you look 446 00:21:44,620 --> 00:21:46,810 in there and see how many there are, you’ll know that I’m right. 447 00:21:46,810 --> 00:21:46,855 Millions and millions. 448 00:21:46,870 --> 00:21:47,280 Houck: Well, and 449 00:21:49,580 --> 00:21:49,787 they were all cleaned to put in there... 450 00:21:49,787 --> 00:21:49,898 McDade: And all cleaned, yeah. 451 00:21:49,898 --> 00:21:50,599 Houck: ...so that’s a—that’s a huge undertaking. 452 00:21:50,610 --> 00:21:51,930 McDade: It’s a huge amount’a work. 453 00:21:52,629 --> 00:21:55,820 And by the way, after you get ’em all cleaned, one of the things that you need 454 00:21:55,820 --> 00:21:59,970 to do is to do a germination trial, ’cause you don’t want—if they’re dead, you wanna 455 00:21:59,970 --> 00:22:01,379 know sooner rather than later, right? 456 00:22:01,900 --> 00:22:05,490 So you do a germination trial, and then you know what proportion were 457 00:22:06,450 --> 00:22:08,260 viable when you put it storage. 458 00:22:08,790 --> 00:22:12,870 Houck: But also, some technical work is involved with that because if the 459 00:22:12,870 --> 00:22:16,690 freezing is what breaks the dormancy, then you have to break the dormancy 460 00:22:16,690 --> 00:22:18,399 ahead of time to do your viability trial. 461 00:22:18,399 --> 00:22:20,570 McDade: That’s right, you have to do—Yeah, exactly, yeah. 462 00:22:20,570 --> 00:22:23,620 And you wouldn’t believe the implements that the seed bank 463 00:22:23,620 --> 00:22:24,710 has for breaking dormancy. 464 00:22:26,190 --> 00:22:27,360 Houck: Well, you’re burning things— 465 00:22:27,740 --> 00:22:30,259 McDade: Toe clippers, liquid smoke. 466 00:22:30,670 --> 00:22:34,750 We got a message the other day from the nursery guy saying that “we’re going to 467 00:22:34,750 --> 00:22:39,640 be smoking some Romneya coulteri seeds, ’cause they need a smoke exposure. 468 00:22:40,250 --> 00:22:42,389 And so if you smell smoke, don’t worry.” 469 00:22:43,099 --> 00:22:44,220 Houck: Right, we have to do the same thing. 470 00:22:44,309 --> 00:22:44,539 McDade: Yeah. 471 00:22:44,540 --> 00:22:47,369 Houck: Like, you know, “We’re doing a fire extinguisher test, so when you see 472 00:22:47,369 --> 00:22:49,485 black smoke, please don’t call 911 today.” 473 00:22:49,485 --> 00:22:49,850 McDade: Don’t—Please don’t call 911. 474 00:22:50,430 --> 00:22:53,720 I let the field station over next to us that’s associated with the 475 00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:57,000 colleges know, as well, ’cause I don’t want them calling 911 either, so— 476 00:22:57,000 --> 00:22:57,214 Houck: Right. 477 00:22:57,429 --> 00:23:00,689 So for those people who don’t know Romneya coulteri, that’s the Matilija poppy, the— 478 00:23:00,689 --> 00:23:02,610 McDade: The Matilija poppy, which is our logo. 479 00:23:02,860 --> 00:23:04,366 Houck: Right, the fried-egg plant, the big, white— 480 00:23:04,366 --> 00:23:05,489 McDade: Fried-egg plant, yeah. 481 00:23:05,559 --> 00:23:07,330 Largest flower in California. 482 00:23:07,510 --> 00:23:09,100 Houck: Which is fantastic. 483 00:23:09,210 --> 00:23:12,290 And we have it on our slopes at Getty Center, and I wouldn’t 484 00:23:12,300 --> 00:23:13,260 mind having more of it. 485 00:23:13,260 --> 00:23:13,480 McDade: Yeah. 486 00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:14,340 It’s a great plant. 487 00:23:14,510 --> 00:23:15,610 Especially when it’s in flower. 488 00:23:15,670 --> 00:23:18,499 We can’t keep it in the nursery; everybody wants one. 489 00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:21,240 Well, you know, they spread terrifically... 490 00:23:21,250 --> 00:23:21,355 Houck: Yes, yes. 491 00:23:21,355 --> 00:23:25,680 McDade: ...and so you have to be—You know, it’s like getting a Great Dane puppy. 492 00:23:25,700 --> 00:23:30,120 You know, you have to be aware that it’s going to get to be a very large creature. 493 00:23:30,190 --> 00:23:33,139 And so your Romneya, your Matilija poppy—Which, by the 494 00:23:33,139 --> 00:23:34,360 way, is a Chumash word... 495 00:23:34,929 --> 00:23:35,819 Houck: Oh, Matilija is? 496 00:23:35,829 --> 00:23:36,970 McDade: ...not a—not a Spanish word. 497 00:23:37,049 --> 00:23:37,969 Houck: Am I saying it correctly? 498 00:23:37,969 --> 00:23:38,869 McDade: Matilija, yeah. 499 00:23:42,289 --> 00:23:43,970 Houck: Lucinda, what is this here on our right? 500 00:23:44,530 --> 00:23:47,080 McDade: This is an example of one of our garden areas that 501 00:23:47,090 --> 00:23:49,510 we’ve renovated very recently. 502 00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:54,820 And this water feature—I joke we used to grow a lotta water here. 503 00:23:55,259 --> 00:24:00,740 This used to be kind of a fake waterfall that came down, and leaked like mad. 504 00:24:01,260 --> 00:24:04,190 And we don’t think that’s really appropriate, for us to model 505 00:24:04,190 --> 00:24:07,129 that kind of water feature in Southern California anymore. 506 00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:09,830 So this is completely recirculating. 507 00:24:09,980 --> 00:24:14,190 It sits on a big sort of pan, where there’s a reservoir of water. 508 00:24:14,580 --> 00:24:14,810 Houck: Sure. 509 00:24:14,849 --> 00:24:18,179 McDade: And it has the sort of like a toilet float in it, so that if it 510 00:24:18,270 --> 00:24:22,150 evaporates and needs more water it comes on and runs a little more water into it. 511 00:24:22,150 --> 00:24:23,879 But it’s basically recirculating. 512 00:24:24,300 --> 00:24:25,210 Everybody loves these. 513 00:24:25,210 --> 00:24:31,520 We had red-tailed hawks that nested up at the top of the hill, in a—in an oak tree. 514 00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:35,470 And they controlled this thing while they were—while they were learning 515 00:24:35,470 --> 00:24:38,030 to fly and getting big and ornery. 516 00:24:38,030 --> 00:24:41,320 And they would just sit on top of that, drinking water and shrieking 517 00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:43,470 and scaring everybody else away, but— 518 00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:44,230 Houck: Well, okay. 519 00:24:44,230 --> 00:24:46,800 So we have birds sort of getting some water. 520 00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:46,933 McDade: Oh, there we go. 521 00:24:46,933 --> 00:24:49,439 Houck: And we have sort of some bees going around. 522 00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:55,190 So as the water’s skimming over the rock, it’s just the right sort of film size of 523 00:24:55,190 --> 00:24:57,960 water that the bee can drink out of it. 524 00:24:58,580 --> 00:24:58,610 McDade: Yep. 525 00:24:58,830 --> 00:25:02,950 Houck: I know this from experience at Getty, because we have a sculpture 526 00:25:02,950 --> 00:25:07,179 that, when it has water in it, has the same kind of water sheeting over it. 527 00:25:07,500 --> 00:25:07,740 McDade: Yeah. 528 00:25:07,740 --> 00:25:09,260 Houck: And the bees say, “Thank you very much.” 529 00:25:09,299 --> 00:25:09,874 McDade: The bees love that. 530 00:25:09,874 --> 00:25:11,270 Houck: [inaudible] prefer to stay in that area. 531 00:25:11,279 --> 00:25:11,710 McDade: Mm-hm. 532 00:25:12,100 --> 00:25:13,600 And then hummingbirds come. 533 00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:17,020 And what they do is they just—they hover, and then they stick their 534 00:25:17,020 --> 00:25:21,060 bill right into the sheeting water and get a drink, and back up and 535 00:25:21,099 --> 00:25:24,340 process that and stick their bill back in, then back up and process that. 536 00:25:24,900 --> 00:25:27,830 All three species of squirrels that we have will come to it. 537 00:25:28,330 --> 00:25:31,169 Often at the end of the day, if you sit on a bench here towards the end 538 00:25:31,170 --> 00:25:32,379 of the day, you get to see that. 539 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:34,129 Houck: So this is the watering hole. 540 00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:35,919 McDade: This is a watering hole, yes. 541 00:25:36,340 --> 00:25:37,050 Yeah, yeah. 542 00:25:40,410 --> 00:25:41,889 Aren’t these things spectacular? 543 00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:47,299 These Washingtonias, our native fan palm here in California. 544 00:25:47,420 --> 00:25:49,800 Houck: So you’ve left the skirt all the way to the bottom, 545 00:25:49,990 --> 00:25:51,370 which you don’t often see. 546 00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:54,520 McDade: Yeah, we let them do what they wanna do, the palms. 547 00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:57,480 And they do periodically lose a trunk of their skirt. 548 00:25:58,110 --> 00:26:01,879 Something breaks loose up in there and disrupts the balance, 549 00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:02,872 and then they [makes a noise]. 550 00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:03,523 Houck: Sort of tumble down. 551 00:26:03,610 --> 00:26:05,149 McDade: A bunch come down, yeah. 552 00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:09,060 Houck: There’s 20-plus in this sort of grove of them, and 553 00:26:09,060 --> 00:26:11,080 they’re all sort of spaced apart. 554 00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:15,840 So this looks to me like sort of a classic oasis. 555 00:26:16,219 --> 00:26:18,470 McDade: Yeah, that’s what it’s designed to do, yeah. 556 00:26:18,620 --> 00:26:20,920 And we have owls that nest in there. 557 00:26:21,650 --> 00:26:25,320 Many days, if you look in just the right place, you can 558 00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:27,460 see an owl nesting in there. 559 00:26:27,460 --> 00:26:29,080 Or you can find an owl pellet. 560 00:26:30,150 --> 00:26:35,090 Houck: You touched on something about how you let the Washingtonia fan 561 00:26:35,090 --> 00:26:37,610 palms do what they’re supposed to do. 562 00:26:38,059 --> 00:26:42,589 The philosophy of pruning in this garden, what would that be? 563 00:26:42,590 --> 00:26:46,700 I mean, I think there’s value in letting plants grow as they would 564 00:26:46,700 --> 00:26:48,750 naturally, so we see their natural form. 565 00:26:49,170 --> 00:26:51,870 But I’m imagining you’re not always allowed to do that, and 566 00:26:51,870 --> 00:26:56,180 you probably have very specific rules on when and how you prune. 567 00:26:56,580 --> 00:26:57,759 McDade: Yeah, we do, really. 568 00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:01,390 We try not to let them block the paths. 569 00:27:01,980 --> 00:27:03,680 And then there’s seasonality to it. 570 00:27:04,020 --> 00:27:08,270 Basically, when you prune, you cut a plant, you’re telling the 571 00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:11,790 rest of the plant that stays there that now is the time to grow. 572 00:27:12,719 --> 00:27:16,579 Because you’re what’s called releasing the lower buds on the plant 573 00:27:16,590 --> 00:27:18,630 by getting rid of the upper buds. 574 00:27:19,210 --> 00:27:21,520 And you don’t wanna do that at some times of the year. 575 00:27:21,530 --> 00:27:24,680 The last thing you wanna do to a plant that’s trying to go dormant because 576 00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:29,300 it’s July and it’s not gonna rain or do anything for three or four more months is 577 00:27:29,300 --> 00:27:33,800 tell it to grow, ’cause growing requires water and, you know, et cetera, et cetera. 578 00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:35,010 So you just don’t wanna do that. 579 00:27:35,010 --> 00:27:38,920 So we time things pretty carefully, when you’re going to prune. 580 00:27:39,750 --> 00:27:44,030 But also, you know, part of our mission, really, is to encourage people to 581 00:27:44,059 --> 00:27:46,020 take California native plants home. 582 00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:51,800 That’s why we run a grow-native nursery, which is seasonal, but is operating 583 00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:53,439 for about eight months of the year. 584 00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:58,570 And so we need to demonstrate, you know, that certain plants can be made to look, 585 00:27:58,780 --> 00:28:01,190 as opposed to unruly, ruly, if you will. 586 00:28:01,190 --> 00:28:05,480 They can be encouraged to look like they are in a well-kept garden, as 587 00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:07,510 opposed to a wild and crazy place. 588 00:28:07,750 --> 00:28:11,679 Houck: Yeah, I mean, there is a different sort of design parameter around using 589 00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:16,290 some of these native plant materials than sort of a traditional landscape, 590 00:28:16,290 --> 00:28:21,040 where the ornamental hedge is in place or you’re expecting a green lawn. 591 00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:26,669 And you kinda have to take that aesthetic and throw it out the window and understand 592 00:28:26,770 --> 00:28:28,469 how big these plants are gonna get. 593 00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:28,730 McDade: Yes. 594 00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:29,269 Houck: And the sizing— 595 00:28:29,299 --> 00:28:33,160 McDade: That’s—We always say, “Read the label.” It says it’s gonna be 596 00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:35,390 six feet tall and six feet wide. 597 00:28:35,580 --> 00:28:36,360 It is. 598 00:28:36,690 --> 00:28:37,380 Believe it. 599 00:28:37,790 --> 00:28:40,819 Don’t plant it right next to something else that’s going to get 600 00:28:40,820 --> 00:28:42,469 six feet tall and six feet wide. 601 00:28:42,759 --> 00:28:44,710 I’m very guilty of overplanting. 602 00:28:44,710 --> 00:28:46,850 It’s called overplanting, planting too densely. 603 00:28:47,039 --> 00:28:48,870 You want instant gratification, right? 604 00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:50,610 So you just put ’em too close together. 605 00:28:50,700 --> 00:28:51,920 Houck: I’m a gardener; I do that, too. 606 00:28:51,930 --> 00:28:52,130 McDade: Yeah. 607 00:28:52,130 --> 00:28:56,940 The thing that convinced me to try to stop doing that is that what you end 608 00:28:56,940 --> 00:28:58,760 up generating is a lot of green waste. 609 00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:02,180 Which means you generate a lot for the trucks to cart off. 610 00:29:02,540 --> 00:29:04,240 I’m not happy contributing to that. 611 00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:07,770 I’d rather believe it, that it’s gonna be six feet by six feet. 612 00:29:08,060 --> 00:29:10,830 Houck: But you do have to live with it for a while, where it may not be the 613 00:29:10,830 --> 00:29:13,199 size or the aesthetic you were expecting. 614 00:29:13,210 --> 00:29:13,276 McDade: Yeah, you do. 615 00:29:13,300 --> 00:29:15,919 But you can plant some other things that will give you more instant 616 00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:17,350 gratification, like annuals. 617 00:29:18,070 --> 00:29:22,110 You know, we’re gonna be selling California poppies in little 618 00:29:22,299 --> 00:29:25,090 four-inch pots, I think, and you can plant a bunch of those. 619 00:29:25,570 --> 00:29:29,690 And by the time they’re going to seed and kind of going away, your bigger 620 00:29:29,690 --> 00:29:31,370 plant’s gonna be established nicely. 621 00:29:31,810 --> 00:29:31,889 Houck: Okay. 622 00:29:31,889 --> 00:29:35,410 McDade: So that’s what we recommend is think of it as waves of time. 623 00:29:35,420 --> 00:29:35,440 Houck: Yeah. 624 00:29:36,139 --> 00:29:39,490 So if I want poppies in my yard, when do I put my seeds out? 625 00:29:39,830 --> 00:29:41,489 McDade: Now would be fine, actually. 626 00:29:41,699 --> 00:29:41,939 Houck: Okay. 627 00:29:42,650 --> 00:29:44,620 McDade: Before or as it’s raining. 628 00:29:44,630 --> 00:29:47,080 The only thing you don’t wanna do is put ’em out too late, after 629 00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:48,240 they’ve already missed the rain. 630 00:29:48,650 --> 00:29:52,040 Like, I wouldn’t do it any later than December. 631 00:29:52,889 --> 00:29:53,300 Houck: Oh, okay. 632 00:29:53,340 --> 00:29:56,340 McDade: ’Cause you want ’em to have a good chance to get wet and stay wet. 633 00:29:56,389 --> 00:30:03,370 And also, when the photoperiod is very short and the sun is low angle, any 634 00:30:03,370 --> 00:30:07,510 rain that does fall really benefits the plants, versus drying up immediately. 635 00:30:07,950 --> 00:30:11,530 Houck: See, I thought I asked you what was a simple question, and I clearly 636 00:30:11,530 --> 00:30:13,670 got the scientist answer for that. 637 00:30:15,799 --> 00:30:19,350 Lucinda, to me, the unspoken part of your garden sort of is the 638 00:30:19,350 --> 00:30:21,400 educational and research aspect of it. 639 00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:22,350 McDade: Exactly. 640 00:30:22,350 --> 00:30:27,180 It’s kind of what goes on behind the scenes in the big, white building on 641 00:30:27,180 --> 00:30:32,060 the hill up there, where we have the 10th largest herbarium in North America. 642 00:30:32,090 --> 00:30:36,720 Herbarium is a collection of specimens of plants preserved for 643 00:30:36,850 --> 00:30:39,240 study and documentation and teaching. 644 00:30:39,820 --> 00:30:41,690 And where we have our graduate program. 645 00:30:41,690 --> 00:30:45,400 We do offer both master’s degrees and PhD degrees. 646 00:30:45,460 --> 00:30:48,169 Our students are out there right this minute, advancing knowledge 647 00:30:48,170 --> 00:30:50,240 of California native plants. 648 00:30:50,650 --> 00:30:55,610 And we have a lovely research library that’s a gem, a total jewel. 649 00:30:56,180 --> 00:30:58,310 But we also do a lot of community education. 650 00:30:58,310 --> 00:31:01,690 We do a lot of public education, informal sorts of things, 651 00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:04,010 both on-site and off-site. 652 00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:07,850 And we also do really fun things, like we’re doing yoga in the garden. 653 00:31:09,290 --> 00:31:10,939 Houck: Lucinda, thank you so much for your time today. 654 00:31:10,940 --> 00:31:14,300 It’s been a true pleasure to learn more about the garden and 655 00:31:14,310 --> 00:31:15,570 to walk around with you today. 656 00:31:15,770 --> 00:31:16,780 McDade: You are very welcome. 657 00:31:16,810 --> 00:31:18,070 The pleasure has been all mine. 658 00:31:25,349 --> 00:31:29,310 Houck: This episode was produced by Zoe Goldman, with audio production by Gideon 659 00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:32,240 Brower and mixing by Myke Dodge Weiskopf. 660 00:31:32,750 --> 00:31:36,480 Our theme music comes from the “The Dharma at Big Sur” composed 661 00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:39,960 by John Adams, for the opening of the Walt Disney Concert Hall in 662 00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:45,310 Los Angeles in 2003 and is licensed with permission from Hendon Music. 663 00:31:48,090 --> 00:31:51,950 For new episodes of Art + Ideas, subscribe on Apple Podcasts, 664 00:31:53,610 --> 00:31:55,450 Spotify, and other podcast platforms. 665 00:31:56,309 --> 00:32:01,379 For photos, transcripts, and other resources, visit getty.edu/podcasts 666 00:32:02,700 --> 00:32:07,180 and if you have a question, or an idea for an upcoming episode, write 667 00:32:07,180 --> 00:32:10,050 to us at podcasts at getty.edu. 668 00:32:10,970 --> 00:32:11,400 Thanks for 669 00:32:20,410 --> 00:32:20,760 listening.