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James Cuno: Hello, I’m Jim Cuno,
president of the J. Paul Getty Trust.

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Welcome to Art + Ideas, a podcast in
which I speak to artists, conservators,

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authors, and scholars about their work.

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Kim Cross: Buck wanted to stand
in every room from his house,

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turn his head, and see every view.

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Even the bathroom.

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And so that was kind of what
inspired the design of the house.

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Cuno: In this episode, I speak
with Kim Cross, Bruce Stahl, and

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Shari Stahl Gronwald about Case
Study House 22, the Stahl House.

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[classical music fades out]

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The Stahl House, or Case Study House
#22, is a modernist-styled house

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designed by the architect Pierre Koenig
in the Hollywood Hills of Los Angeles.

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Built in 1959 as part of the Case
Study Houses program, the house is

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considered an icon of modern architecture
in Los Angeles, immortalized by

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the photographer Julius Shulman.

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It has since become one of the most
frequently reproduced modernist

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homes, appearing in fashion shoots,
films, and advertising campaigns.

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I recently spoke with Bruce and
Shari Stahl, two of the three Stahl

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children who grew up in the house, and
award-winning journalist Kim Cross,

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who together authored the new book
The Stahl House: Case Study House

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#22, the Making of a Modernist Icon.

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Shari, Bruce, and Kim, thank you
for speaking with me this morning.

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Shari and Bruce, we’re here to talk about
your house, the house you grew up in, the

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Stahl House, Case Study House number 22.

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Tell us about your parents and
what prompted them to commission

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this High Modernist house.

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Bruce Stahl: Our father, Clarence
Henry Stahl—everybody knew him as Buck

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Stahl—was born in St. Louis, 1912,
the son of a milkman and a homemaker.

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In his teens, he lived
through the Great Depression.

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He attended Cleveland High School,
where his talents in drawing and

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printing started to come out.

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After high school, he
attended a mechanical trade

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school and studied printing.

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Cuno: Shari?

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Shari Stahl Gronwald: Once our father,
Buck, came over from St. Louis, he

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worked in the aerospace industry.

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Carlotta, my mother, was a
native Southern Californian.

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She was born and raised down
in Santa Monica, and she ended

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up growing up in Culver City.

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And she worked at North American Aviation.

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And they ended up meeting by a sales
call that Buck ended up going on.

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And Carlotta was a receptionist
when he came in, and he was taken

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by this, you know, blonde beauty.

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They ended up falling in love
and they wanted to get married.

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And they drove out to Las Vegas and
they got married March 20, 1954.

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My parents actually eyed this lot that
the Stahl House is on today from a

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apartment that they rented shortly after
they got married, across the canyon.

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So this lot, or these lots that
were for sale across the canyon,

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were in plain view every day.

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So I think what happened is that
they ended up falling in love

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with this particular lot that was
the one closest to the edge, with

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the view that just went forever.

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Cuno: Kim?

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Cross: So in 1954, Buck and Carlotta
were newlyweds, and they were renting

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an apartment in the Hollywood Hills.

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And out their window, they could see this
beautiful promontory, this ridgeline.

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And on its tip was a lot that just
looked like an island in the sky, and

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they started fantasizing about this lot.

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They started calling it “our lot.” And
one day they decided to drive up there and

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see “our lot.” And just by coincidence,
the owner of the lot, who lived in La

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Jolla, just happened to be driving there.

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After about an hour of conversation,
Buck and Carlotta bought the lot for $100

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of earnest money and $13,500, and the
owner of the lot carried the mortgage.

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You know, back in those days, you
didn’t get a mortgage and start building

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immediately; you had to pay off the lot.

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And they paid it off $50
at a time over four years.

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And during those four years, Buck spent
four years of weekends basically driving

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around Los Angeles in his Cadillac
and going to building sites where

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they had heaps of discarded concrete.

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And he would load the concrete in
the trunk of his Cadillac, and then

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drive it, riding low, up to the lot,
unload the concrete, and then he used

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those chunks to basically build these
terraces and a perimeter around the

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lot that prevented erosion and made
the buildable surface six feet bigger.

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And that area was the place where the
house is cantilevered over the cliff.

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Cuno: Shari?

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Gronwald: During this time, Buck was
able to build a model that specifically

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showed exactly how the house was
supposed to be laid out, exactly

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what he wanted for their dream home.

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I don’t think it was ever
considered to be anything famous.

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It was just the style of the time.

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He wanted a butterfly roof; he
wanted a waterfall; he wanted

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walls that curved along the street.

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He didn’t know how it was gonna be
done, but this is what he wanted.

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Cross: And when he built his model,
so many architects turned him down

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because they said either the lot’s
unbuildable or the structure’s

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unbuildable, or for whatever reason,
they didn’t want any part of it.

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So something like five architects,
including Craig Elwood,

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turned ’em down and said nope.

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And then they found Pierre Koenig,
sort of by flipping through Pictorial

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Living, they saw his work, called him.

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And he was the one who
said, “Yes, we can do this.”

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Cuno: So Pierre Koenig designed the
house, but there was a great deal of

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collaboration between the owners of the
house and the architect of the house.

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Tell us about that.

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Cross: So Buck Stahl really had
a vision of what he wanted, and

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it all started with the lot.

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And he wanted a house that
wouldn’t obstruct any of the

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270-degree view of Los Angeles.

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He started with sculpting a replica of
the lot out of crushed beer cans and

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soda cans and clay, and then he fashioned
something that he thought would fit on it.

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It was an L-shaped plan, except it had
a butterfly roof that swept up and out

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like wings, and then it also had a curved
wall that followed the curve in the road.

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And these would’ve been
very expensive to build.

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And so Pierre took Buck’s ideas and made
them not only buildable, but affordable.

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They had a very tight budget to
work with, and it would’ve been

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very expensive to build steel or
to build that butterfly roof or to

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construct—Buck wanted a water feature.

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And so Pierre changed Buck’s ideas
and made them affordable, and also

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elevated the design into a masterpiece.

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Gronwald: As Pierre used to say, they
had champagne taste on a beer budget.

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Cross: And one of the exceptional
things, I think, that’s so stunning

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about what Pierre did was he only had
something like 60 different components,

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stock parts, to design this house with.

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And that’s part of what
made it affordable.

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Imagine being given 60, you know,
types of Legos and that’s all you have.

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You can’t cut them, you can’t bend
them, you can’t do anything with them.

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And he used those pieces
to create something really

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beautiful, but also affordable.

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And that’s part of the
magic of this house.

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The other thing that Buck wanted
was he wanted stone somewhere.

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And Pierre designed it into the fireplace.

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But when it came down to building the
house, the Stahls ran out of money.

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And so there was no stone
on the original fireplace.

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Gronwald: They also couldn’t afford the
original terrazzo floor that was supposed

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to be throughout the house, so they
ended up having to settle for concrete.

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They couldn’t afford carpeting.

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Carpeting came later.

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But until the carpeting ended up
getting put in, Bruce and I used

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to roller-skate through the house.

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A lotta people kinda were in shock when we
told ’em because it’s a all-glass house.

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But Mom and Dad used to
let us roller-skate up and

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down through the hallways.

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Well, not so much hallways, but the
openness of the living room, and then we

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were able to skate right into our bedroom.

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So it was kind of fun.

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I’m kinda glad the terrazzo didn’t get in.

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Cuno: Were they architects
monque in any kind of way.

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Did they see themselves as architects?

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Gronwald: My parents, Buck and
Carlotta, were not architects at all.

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Buck had training in art
and drafting and printing.

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And he had a talent for
being very creative.

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He was very good at what
he did, as far as drawing.

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So he was able to see the house
and exactly what he wanted to

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be able to put it in model form.

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Cuno: How did he become aware
of the Case Study House program?

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And Kim, tell us what the
Case Study House program was.

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Cross: So the Case Study House
program is one of the greatest

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experiments in American architecture.

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As World War II was drawing to
a close, there was a magazine

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editor named John Entenza.

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He was the editor of
Arts & Architecture magazine.

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And he realized that we were
sending home 6.7 million Americans

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from living abroad, and they were
not gonna have anyplace to live.

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Because during the war, virtually
all of the resources were diverted

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to the war effort, and almost
no residential construction

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had taken place during the war.

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And so he didn’t wanna see a
glut of really bad design happen

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to solve this housing crisis.

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So he had a great idea.

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He said, “Why don’t we commission the
nation’s best young Modernist architects

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to reimagine the American lifestyle
and redesign the middle-class American

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home.” And so he started the Modernist
architects in America, and he would

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pair them up with a client and they
would design a house for the client.

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But the objective was to design
prototypes that could be mass produced

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nationwide, regardless of the site,
bringing good design to the masses.

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And so this was the program that
the Stahl family just happened

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to plug into, with good fortune.

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Cuno: Was it also more affordable?

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Cross: Yes.

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The goal was affordable,
well-designed prototypes that

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could be mass produced nationwide.

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Cuno: So this is Case
Study House number 22.

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How many Case Study Houses were there?

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Cross: Well, there are 36.

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10 of them were never built,
and about 20 remain today.

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And I think the Stahl House, if I’m
correct, is the only one that’s still

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in the hands of the original owners.

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Cuno: How different was the Stahl
House from the other Case Study Houses?

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Cross: Case Study House 21, also
designed by Pierre Koenig, really

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embodied all of the ideals of
the Case Study House program.

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It had a small footprint; it was modest,
it was affordable, and it was the

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design that could really be built on
any site, so it wasn’t site-specific.

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22 was very site-specific.

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It was, in fact, designed to maximize
the beautiful views from this lot that

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Buck and Carlotta had bought, which had
270-degree views of Los Angeles rolling

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out like a carpet beneath the house,
and then the ocean in the background.

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And you know, Buck and Carlotta,
they really didn’t wanna

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waste any bit of this view.

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I know Buck wanted to stand in
every room from his house, turn

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his head, and see every view.

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Even the bathroom.

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And so that was kind of what
inspired the design of the house.

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And Pierre Koenig saw the potential
for that and really maximized it.

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So in that way, it was very different.

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Cuno: What about the neighboring houses?

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What were they like?

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Stahl: The neighboring houses
were traditional-style houses.

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Two and three bedrooms.

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Most of ’em up there on the street were
three bedrooms, probably two baths.

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They all had a bit of a
view at certain angles.

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But there was nothing like
our house up in that area.

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There was one at the very end
of the cul-de-sac that had some

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kinda mid-century lines to it.

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Flat roof, carport, no garage, pool, high
ceilings in a certain part of the house.

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But that was the only one that
I would consider mid-century,

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and it came after ours.

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Cuno: Kim, how did the Case
Study program get administered?

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Did one have to register the house
with a central authority of some

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kind to get a special number?

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Cross: So the Case Study House
program was administered by Arts

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& Architecture magazine and John Entenza.

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And he would reach out to these
architects and have them work on a design.

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When possible, he would match them with
a client who needed a house, and he

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would design a house for that client.

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But again, the idea was that they
would design prototypes that could be

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mass produced, using the technologies
developed for the war, and the materials.

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The brilliant part about this program was,
he made partnerships with manufacturers

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and suppliers of those materials.

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And those suppliers made those
materials affordable, or they sold

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them either at cost or donated them
to these Case Study House projects.

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And in exchange, they got
coverage in the magazine.

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So in the magazine, he would publish
the designs, and then he would publish

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pictures of construction, so you could see
these houses unfolding in the magazine.

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And in exchange for donating or
selling at cost these materials, the

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suppliers would get free advertising.

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And then he would open the houses
to the public for tours for a

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certain amount of time before the
families were allowed to move in.

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So it was kind of this win-win-win.

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The families who participated got
cheaper materials for their house,

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making it more affordable, which
was really key for the Stahl House,

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because they were on a pretty tight
budget, and this program really made it

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affordable for them to build their house.

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Cuno: What role did Paul Williams,
the African American architect in Los

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00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:47,600
Angeles, play in the process of building
and registering the Stahl House?

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He features prominently in
one photograph in the book.

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Gronwald: Paul Williams was one of the
founders of a Black-owned bank called

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Broadway Federal Savings and Loan.

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And I believe it was founded in 1946.

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He was one of the founders,
and he also was on the board.

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And I believe when Buck and Carlotta
couldn’t find a loan—they tried.

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With Pierre, they searched all over
to find someone that would loan them

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00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:19,600
the money to build their dream home.

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00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:24,400
The only one that came forward was
Broadway Federal Savings and Loan.

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00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:29,600
It was a bank that was created for
the need for conventional loans

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to minority consumers, which many
of ’em were returning veterans.

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00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:38,400
They noticed that the minority consumers
were being ignored by the existing

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banks, so they kinda filled that gap.

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And it became very successful.

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We would like to think Paul Williams,
being a noted architect himself,

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that that had something to do with
the approval of my parents’ loans.

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We are forever grateful to this
bank for allowing my parents

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to build their dream home.

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A Black-owned bank that made a
white couple’s dream come true,

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00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:07,600
even when discrimination was
still happening in the area.

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It’s amazing to me.

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Stahl: Back then, banks were very
leery about investing in what they

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called back then is hill dwellers.

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Construction of homes in the hills.

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00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:23,200
The engineering back then wasn’t
as good as today’s engineering, and

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00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:28,800
there was a lot of catastrophes where
pools would slide down the hill or

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portions of the house would fail.

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This is why the banks weren’t coming
forward to lend my parents money,

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because they thought it was a risk.

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Cross: Can I jump in and add that,
I mean, this really is exceptional,

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that a Black-owned bank underwrote
the dream house of a white family.

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And it did this in a neighborhood
where the covenants, conditions,

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and restrictions actually
discriminated against nonwhites.

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There were things written into
the code that said that nonwhite

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people could not live on the
property of any of these houses.

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And the other thing was they had a
requirement, as part of the mortgage,

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that I think changed the Stahl House
and made it, was part—one of the

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things that made it what it is today.

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They required a pool.

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That was not part of the original design.

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Cross: And I think that the pool,
in particular, the addition of the

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pool is so important for the house.

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Not only for the way it reflects the
environment and the house itself—the

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00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:42,000
house is constantly transforming
because the glass of the walls

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00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:47,200
reflects the sunset; the light from
the pool bounces off onto the walls

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00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:49,600
in those little shadows of light.

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00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:54,000
I mean, the house wouldn’t be
the house without the pool.

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00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:58,000
And it also really changed
your lives, Bruce and Shari.

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And can you talk about how, like, the
tradition that you had when you were

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tiny and you didn’t know how to swim yet?

285
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You had a pool right outside your door.

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00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:16,000
Can you talk about what you
had to do when you were little?

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00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:16,800
Stahl: Yeah.

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00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:22,400
As children growing up, and once we
learned how to walk, the first thing

289
00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:28,400
that we put on in the morning—and
a lotta times, it was put on right

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00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:30,800
over the jammies—was a life vest.

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00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:38,000
And that was before we even left the room,
we had to put our life vest on, because

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00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:40,800
around our pool, there was no fences.

293
00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:44,400
The windows opened right
into the pool, just about.

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00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:49,600
So until we could learn to master
swimming, that was our morning regimen,

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00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:52,800
before we even got out of our room.

296
00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:58,400
Gronwald: And needless to say, we ended
up learning how to swim pretty quickly,

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00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:01,600
’cause we got tired of the life vests.

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00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:06,000
Cross: And then one day your
dad propped a ladder against

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00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:08,000
the roof, and what happened?

300
00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:13,600
Stahl: Well, he launched himself off the
roof into the deep end, which started

301
00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:16,400
a tradition that is still going today.

302
00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:20,400
We’re probably on our fourth
generation of roof jumpers now.

303
00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:22,800
My father was the first generation.

304
00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:26,400
Shari and I and Mark were
the second generation.

305
00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:29,600
My three kids are the
third-generation roof jumpers.

306
00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:30,800
They’ve all jumped.

307
00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:36,400
And on my uncle’s side of the family, the
grandkids, which is the fourth-generation

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00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:39,200
roof jumpers, have gone off that roof.

309
00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:44,000
Cross: I should add that Shari
and Bruce had a—had a requirement

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00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:46,400
for me to write their book.

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00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:51,600
They said, “If you really wanna
understand what it was like for us

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00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:58,000
to grow up in this house, you have
to jump off the roof.” So they made

313
00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:01,200
me jump off the roof, into the pool.

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00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:04,000
Gronwald: She loved every minute of it.

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00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:08,800
Cuno: How much did it cost
to build Case Study House 22?

316
00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:11,200
Gronwald: Well, the lot was $13,500.

317
00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:15,200
And they couldn’t build
until that loan was paid off.

318
00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:21,200
And soon as the loan was paid off,
that’s when they took their model and

319
00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:22,800
they started contacting architects.

320
00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:26,800
And then they ended up
getting the loan for $34,000.

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00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:29,200
So $34,000 was the house cost.

322
00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:33,600
But because Broadway Federal Savings
and Loan wouldn’t finance the pool,

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00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:35,600
that tacked on another $3,455.

324
00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:41,200
So I guess the overall cost of the
house being built was $37,455, and

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00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:44,000
then plus the 13,5 for the lot.

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00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:48,400
Cuno: Did that seem like
a good deal at the time?

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00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:49,200
Gronwald: No.

328
00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:54,000
My parents’ friends and family thought
they were crazy, ’cause they could

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00:21:54,000 --> 00:22:00,000
buy a three-bedroom two-bath home on
a lot down on the flat area in Los

330
00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:02,800
Angeles for that price and be done.

331
00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:05,200
But they didn’t listen to them.

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00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:12,000
My mom and dad had a dream, and they
wanted this house, they wanted this lot so

333
00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:14,800
bad that whatever they said didn’t matter.

334
00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:19,600
You know, they were called crazy
and, you know, all sortsa things.

335
00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:26,000
But they didn’t listen to ’em and they
decided to do what they wanted to do.

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00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:32,000
Cross: I think the bottom line is that
this is the story of a blue-collar

337
00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:34,000
family with a white-collar dream.

338
00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:39,200
You know, most people who think they
know the Stahl House assume that

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00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:44,400
someone rich and famous lives there,
when in fact, it was this ordinary

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00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:50,000
middle-class family who had a dream, and
fought really hard to make it happen.

341
00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:54,800
Cuno: Were Case Study Houses a Southern
California phenomenon, or could I

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00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:58,000
go back to St. Louis and find one?

343
00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:01,600
Stahl: Primarily, all the
Case Studies were out here.

344
00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:05,200
Most of ’em kind of in the LA area.

345
00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:09,600
There’s Case Study 25, which
is down in Long Beach, but

346
00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:11,600
they didn’t venture too far.

347
00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:15,600
Back east, the climate wasn’t
suitable for these modern-style homes.

348
00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:19,600
I mean, Case Study 22 would
not survive in Chicago.

349
00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:22,400
It wouldn’t make it through a winter.

350
00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:26,000
The house may, but the
people inside would not.

351
00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:29,200
But you know, Arts & Architecture
magazine was California-,

352
00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:30,400
Southern-California-based, I believe.

353
00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:35,200
And this is where a lot of these
new progressive architects lived.

354
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:40,400
Cuno: Tell us about the photograph
that Julius Shulman took of the house,

355
00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:46,000
and describe it for us and tell us
about the importance of the photograph

356
00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:48,800
in the history of Case Study Houses.

357
00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:55,200
What role did he play in promoting the
idea of the Case Study House and creating

358
00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:58,000
the romantic myth of such a house?

359
00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:02,000
Cross: This photograph captures
a corner of the house that’s

360
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:05,600
cantilevered over nighttime Los
Angeles, which sort of stretches

361
00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:08,000
out, glittering below like a carpet.

362
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:12,800
It’s a glass box, essentially, with
two women in white dresses sitting

363
00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:14,800
chatting in that cantilevered corner.

364
00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:19,600
And it just captures the
spirit of an age in one image.

365
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:24,000
And it really is something
for an image to do that.

366
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:28,800
He was instrumental in documenting
a lot of the Case Study House.

367
00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:33,600
And I think that that image
was part of the Stahl House’s

368
00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:36,000
rise to what it is today.

369
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:42,000
Mark Stahl, who’s no longer with us,
used to say that stars had to align

370
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:48,400
for the Stahl House to be built,
and also for it to rise to the level

371
00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:51,200
of a celebrity in its own right.

372
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:54,400
And one of those stars was Julius Shulman.

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00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:59,600
And I think there was an ongoing, I
guess, friendly debate between Pierre

374
00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:02,400
and Julius, about who made who famous.

375
00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:08,400
And Julius liked to brag that he made
Pierre Koenig famous, and the house; and

376
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:13,600
Pierre Koenig would reply, “Well, you
know, Julius, architects had to build the

377
00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:19,200
houses before you photographed them.” So
I think it was kind of the constellation

378
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:22,800
of, like, all of the things in one image.

379
00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:28,000
And that is one of the reasons
the Stahl House is so famous.

380
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:32,800
Stahl: Julius Shulman picture, if
you talk to him about that image,

381
00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:38,800
and if you call it a picture, he
will probably tell you it wasn’t a

382
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:41,200
picture of a piece of architecture.

383
00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:46,000
He said he captured a picture of
a mood that changed everything.

384
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:51,200
And I think Julius looked at images
in just a little bit different

385
00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:53,200
way than most photographers did.

386
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:58,000
And regarding the back and forth
with Koenig and Shulman, when that

387
00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:02,800
conversation always takes place, who
made who famous, I always come back,

388
00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:08,400
“Well, if my father didn’t have the
idea, then you both wouldn’t have it.”

389
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:12,400
Gronwald: But Buck used to
always say, “They can have

390
00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:14,800
the fame; I have the house.”

391
00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:20,800
Cuno: Well, I was wondering if you could
tell us when the photograph was taken.

392
00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:24,800
Before the house was completed,
after the house was completed,

393
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:27,200
before you moved into the house?

394
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:32,400
Cross: So the photograph was taken before
the Stahl family actually moved in.

395
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:36,800
It was a photo shoot for Arts
& Architecture magazine, which was,

396
00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:42,000
of course, going to publish the
house in full in the magazine, like

397
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:44,800
it did the other Case Study Houses.

398
00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:50,400
Julius Shulman was ready to take the
photo, and the house was not done.

399
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:55,600
Pierre actually came to the house in
the days before the scheduled shoot,

400
00:26:55,600 --> 00:27:00,800
found no one there, got very upset,
found that just it wasn’t ready.

401
00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:05,600
And they had a deadline
because it had to get to press.

402
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:10,800
And so he wrote a really terse
letter to the builder and saying,

403
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:16,000
you know, “I have all this pressure.
Julius Shulman’s ready to shoot it.

404
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:19,600
John Entenza’s wondering
when we can get the shots.

405
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:22,000
Buck and Carlotta wanna move in.

406
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:25,200
You know, when is this gonna be done?”

407
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:30,800
So on the day of the shoot, it
was still kind of in shambles.

408
00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:34,800
There was plaster dust everywhere,
the landscaping was not done,

409
00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:37,200
the floors had not been finished.

410
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:42,400
They had run out of money to put
the terrazzo floors planned in,

411
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:45,200
and so the floor was bare concrete.

412
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:49,600
And Julius Shulman, who was famous
for bringing houseplants and foliage

413
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:55,200
from nearby bushes into his shots,
sort of staged it so that it did

414
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:57,200
look like there was landscaping.

415
00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:00,400
And he was setting up an indoor shot.

416
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:05,600
And then he stepped outside to
take in the view or look around,

417
00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:10,400
and that’s when he saw two girls
sitting in the cantilevered corner.

418
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:14,000
These girls had nothing
to do with the house.

419
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:17,600
They were the girlfriends of
two architecture students who

420
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:22,400
Pierre Koenig had asked to come
up and help with the shoot.

421
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:26,400
I think Julius liked to
put people in his photos.

422
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:32,000
And so he told Pierre, “Please, you know,
tell them to bring their girlfriends,

423
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:34,800
and tell them to wear nice clothes.

424
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:40,400
They might be in a shot.” And so
he saw them just naturally sitting

425
00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:44,800
there and chatting, and he said,
“Oh, we’re redoing the shot.”

426
00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:50,000
So he runs inside, takes all of his
equipment, redoes the lighting, and

427
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:56,400
says, “Okay, girls, I want you to just,
you know, sit there quietly.” And he has

428
00:28:56,400 --> 00:29:00,400
this really famous, super-complicated
exposure, in the age before digital

429
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:06,000
photography, where he had to expose first
for the nighttime ambient line, so to

430
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:08,800
get the city lights in the background.

431
00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:12,800
And so he had them sit
quietly in the dark.

432
00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:18,800
And then he put light bulbs, flashbulbs
into, I think, the bulb lights in the

433
00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:25,600
house, and he had a way to trigger it
so that it would pop those bulbs and

434
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:30,800
expose the girls, after he had burned
in the nighttime ambient light with

435
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:32,800
something like an eight-minute exposure.

436
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:36,400
And so it’s a really
tricky exposure to nail.

437
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:41,600
And he was “one-shot Shulman,” and he
did it perfectly. So that’s another

438
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:44,000
reason that photo is so impressive.

439
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:50,000
Cuno: Now, Shari and Bruce, what was
it like to grow up in this house?

440
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:51,200
Stahl: Well, fantastic.

441
00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:57,600
But as a kid growing up in it, our
reference point was the house, so we

442
00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:03,200
didn’t realize really what kinda house
we were growing up in until Shari and

443
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:09,200
I got into high school, when the house
became more and more famous and popular.

444
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:15,200
I often tell people that ask what
it was like, I go, “Well, you gotta

445
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:20,400
remember, when the house was completed
it wasn’t famous yet. It was different.”

446
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:24,000
Today, the house is probably
more famous than different.

447
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:26,800
Now it’s a standard
for Mid-century Modern.

448
00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:32,400
But growing up there, our life revolved
around the pool, running around the hills.

449
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:35,200
But the pool was the main focus.

450
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:37,200
That was our main entertainment.

451
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:41,600
Gronwald: Like Bruce said, when
were kids, it was just home.

452
00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:45,200
It wasn’t anything
famous, it was home to us.

453
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:51,200
And our friends loved coming up because
it was different, and we had a pool.

454
00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:56,800
So my mother ended up being the taxi,
because there were no kids living

455
00:30:56,800 --> 00:31:03,200
up in the area at the time, so she
would have to go bring ’em down.

456
00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:07,600
And every weekend, she’d
bring kids up to play with us.

457
00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:10,400
But we were always in the pool.

458
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:15,600
If we weren’t in the pool, we
were hiking in the hills, we

459
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:18,000
were hiking down below the house.

460
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:23,600
And we just, you know, whatever dirt
we could find, we loved playing with.

461
00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:30,000
And it definitely shaped our lives when
we got a little bit older, in high school.

462
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:34,400
Cuno: Well, they almost lost
the house in 1979, I think,

463
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:36,800
when there was a fire nearby.

464
00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:41,600
Tell us about the fire and about
the consequences for your house.

465
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:46,400
Stahl: Shari, you could probably take
this better, ’cause you were there.

466
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:47,200
Gronwald: Right.

467
00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:48,000
Let’s see.

468
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:54,000
I guess what it was, my mother, father,
and my brother Mark were at home.

469
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:59,200
And I invited three friends to
come up, and we just kinda laid

470
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:01,600
out and tanned and went swimming.

471
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:06,800
And Dad would sit out with all
of us, and he was chatting.

472
00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:13,600
And all of a sudden, I see him
look up to the sky, and I see this

473
00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:16,000
kinda scared look on his face.

474
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:19,200
And all he said to me was, “Fire.”

475
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:24,000
And we all jumped up and
we ran out to the road.

476
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:28,800
And we could just see the
whole ridge behind us, all the

477
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:30,800
homes are engulfed in flames.

478
00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:34,800
And it was taking out home
after home after home.

479
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:40,000
And it moved up so fast through
the canyon that these people barely

480
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:43,200
had time to get out of their house.

481
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:48,400
It was a very scary time for
everybody up there on our ridge,

482
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:51,200
as well as the ridge behind us.

483
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:56,800
Another issue was, there wasn’t enough
fire trucks to actually put out the fire.

484
00:32:56,800 --> 00:33:02,800
They were trying to get up these windy
roads, which in cases, were so narrow

485
00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:05,600
because of cars parked on one side.

486
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:09,600
When they finally got up, there
wasn’t enough firefighters to

487
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:12,000
actually help put out the fire.

488
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:17,600
So my friends ended up having to
hold hoses for them, while they were

489
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:19,600
busy using hoses somewhere else.

490
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:24,400
When the fire started coming down
our ridge, the first house that

491
00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:26,800
it would’ve hit was Buck Henry.

492
00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:30,400
I’m not sure if you’re
familiar with Buck Henry.

493
00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:34,000
He was the actor, comedian,
and filmmaker years ago.

494
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:40,400
And so my father and I, we ran up
to Buck Henry’s house, ’cause we saw

495
00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:46,400
him on his roof with his water hose,
trying to water down the roof, but

496
00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:48,800
the fire was approaching pretty fast.

497
00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:55,200
And so we ended up going up there with
shovels, and trying to create some kinda

498
00:33:55,200 --> 00:34:00,400
fire break because these flames were
pretty much licking at Buck Henry’s house.

499
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:07,200
And we did our best to try and put it
out, even as water tankers came over.

500
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:12,000
There was one water tanker that
actually came over and it dumped

501
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:17,600
water right on my dad, when he
was trying to make a fire break.

502
00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:22,400
And I’ve never seen my dad
flattened to the ground so fast.

503
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:27,600
And I was so afraid that it
hurt him, but he was fine.

504
00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:30,400
He got up and he kept digging.

505
00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:36,000
We saved Buck Henry’s house, but it
started coming down the side of the

506
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:41,200
mountain, which didn’t have any homes
on it; but it was creeping towards

507
00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:43,600
our house, which was really scary.

508
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:48,400
And luckily, when it got about
halfway down the ridge, the were

509
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:53,600
able to control it and they were
able to put that section out.

510
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:59,200
So we feel very fortunate that it
didn’t actually hit the house at all.

511
00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:03,200
Cuno: What about the exhibition
at MoCA, Museum of Contemporary

512
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:05,200
Art here in Los Angeles?

513
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:09,200
The exhibition was called Blueprints
for Modern Living: History and

514
00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:11,200
Legacy of Case Study Houses.

515
00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:14,800
Your house, the Stahl House,
featured prominently in it.

516
00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:20,000
But I also had a feeling from your
book, that the exhibition revived

517
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:22,400
an interest in Case Study Houses.

518
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:26,800
Cross: So Blueprints for Modern
Living was a real turning point

519
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:29,600
in the story of the Stahl House.

520
00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:31,200
It was in 1989.

521
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:37,600
I think it took five years to complete,
and it was one of the most ambitious

522
00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:39,200
architectural exhibitions ever produced.

523
00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:43,200
It really resurrected the
story of the Case Study House

524
00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:44,800
program and celebrated it.

525
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:50,400
And it was designed by Craig Hodgetts
and Ming Fung, who I believe worked

526
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:52,000
with Hollywood set designers.

527
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:57,600
And so they created this story of the
Case Study House program where you

528
00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:02,400
entered through Ralph Rapson’s Greenbelt
House, which was never built; and then

529
00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:08,000
you walked through a series of exhibits
that told the story of that time.

530
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:13,200
And then you ended on an upper level
floor that presented a nighttime

531
00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:15,200
replica of the Stahl House.

532
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:20,000
So it was so big that two Case
Study Houses were reconstructed

533
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:23,200
at full scale, basically in
MoCA’s Temporary Contemporary,

534
00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:25,200
which was a former warehouse.

535
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:28,400
And so you ended at the Stahl House.

536
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:33,200
And you could look out over the
exhibition floor and have the

537
00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:38,800
sense that you were above it all,
like you do at the actual house.

538
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:44,000
That exhibition marked the point at which
the Stahl House started appearing in

539
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:47,200
magazines and ads and films and TV shows.

540
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:51,200
And I believe that because
people were walking through it

541
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:56,800
and seeing it, it really kind of
put it on the map of Hollywood.

542
00:36:56,800 --> 00:37:02,800
And so it was, I believe, the only
Case Study House to be built twice.

543
00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:07,200
And Bruce and Shari and their
family got to walk through

544
00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:09,600
their own house in a museum.

545
00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:14,000
Bruce, do you wanna share
what that was like for you?

546
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:15,200
Stahl: Yeah, sure.

547
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:20,800
I mean, it was—I don’t really like
the term surreal, but it kinda was.

548
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:23,600
And we were walkin’ through our home.

549
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:29,200
And there was a buncha other people
walking through it at the same time,

550
00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:32,000
and I pretty much couldn’t help myself.

551
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:35,200
I had to just talk to a stranger.

552
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:41,200
And I just said, “I grew up in
this house.” And she turned to me

553
00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:46,800
and she goes, “You did?” And it
was a conversation that I just had

554
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:50,000
to—it just had to come out of me.

555
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:52,800
I just was so excited about it.

556
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:57,200
But one thing—and I’m sure Shari
felt it, too—we were walkin’

557
00:37:57,200 --> 00:38:02,400
through it and we could tell it
was slightly off; it wasn’t exact.

558
00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:08,000
’Cause growing up in the house, we
know ever square inch, and if it’s

559
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:10,800
an inch off, we’re gonna see it.

560
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:16,000
And the replica was slightly off,
but only to our eyes, because no

561
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:21,200
one else could feel it, except
for Shari and I and our family.

562
00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:26,400
Cross: The other interesting thing about
the exhibition is, I think it marked

563
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:31,200
a turning point for Pierre Koenig, who
was very underappreciated before then.

564
00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:37,200
I believe he had not yet been promoted
to full professor at the USC School

565
00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:41,600
of Architecture, and he finally got
the recognition that he deserved.

566
00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:44,000
Cuno: What happened to the house?

567
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:48,800
I mean, I know it’s still standing,
but what’s the structure that

568
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:51,600
supports the house in a financial way?

569
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:56,400
Stahl: The house we have today,
Shari and I are still the

570
00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:58,000
owners-slash-stewards of the house.

571
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:02,800
And today, the house is rented
to the studios quite a bit.

572
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:08,400
And we also, in 2009 or 2010, we
opened the doors to tours, which

573
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:13,600
is the main stable of resources
that we use to renovate the house.

574
00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:18,800
Every year, we will close down
the house in December and take a

575
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:21,600
section of the house to renovate it.

576
00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:28,000
And every year we do this, and it’s
paid for with the film revenue that we

577
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:32,800
bring in, and also the tour revenue,
which helps sustain the house.

578
00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:37,600
Gronwald: My parents struggled in
the beginning to get the house built.

579
00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:43,200
With three kids, it was a struggle
financially to keep us all fed and

580
00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:45,600
clothed and still pay a mortgage.

581
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:52,000
And they had to move out for a while
because Buck ended up losing his job

582
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:58,000
through the aerospace industry, and we had
to move out for roughly about five years.

583
00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:04,000
Buck and Carlotta both went back to
work, saved as much money as they could,

584
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:06,800
’cause they wanted to get back home.

585
00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:12,000
They wouldn’t sell the house; they
decided they were gonna rent it, even

586
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:18,000
though people told ’em, “Just sell it
and get out of, you know, any financial

587
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:23,600
problems you had.” But knowing my
mom and dad, that was not an option.

588
00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:25,200
They loved that house.

589
00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:26,800
That was their home.

590
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:32,400
And MoCA happened and all of a sudden,
we started getting more studio calls.

591
00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:37,200
Mom would get calls for movies;
she would get calls for photography

592
00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:40,000
ads and TV shows, and even videos.

593
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:44,800
So the house started, at that
time, it started paying them back.

594
00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:50,800
After all the struggles to get the
house built, they had to move out, they

595
00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:57,200
finally had enough to get back, and now
they were getting paid by the house, and

596
00:40:57,200 --> 00:40:59,600
it really helped with their finances.

597
00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:03,600
And as they got older, it
helped with their retirement.

598
00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:08,000
So the house is really
the film star in all this.

599
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:11,200
It’s not us at all; it’s the house.

600
00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:16,000
And I think we’ve had about
13 movies shot at the house.

601
00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:21,200
We’ve had three music videos, we
had—These are the ones I know about.

602
00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:23,600
We had about 10 television shows.

603
00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:29,200
We had commercials that are probably
about in the numbers of 20 or 30.

604
00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:32,800
We’ve had one documentary
done on Julius Shulman that

605
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:34,800
was—the house was included in.

606
00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:36,400
And we’re very thankful.

607
00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:42,000
And now on top of that, we started
offering scheduled tours back in 2009.

608
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:48,000
And those are also helping with us to
keep the house, to keep it renovated,

609
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:54,400
to keep it up in maintenance, and just
be able to share it with the world.

610
00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:58,800
And that actually makes us very
happy because that was something

611
00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:00,400
Mom really enjoyed doing.

612
00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:05,600
She loved opening it up to the
studios and she would love opening

613
00:42:05,600 --> 00:42:11,200
her front door to any students or
guests that wanted to see the house.

614
00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:17,600
And now we’re just opening it up on a more
scheduled basis, and it’s actually helping

615
00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:20,400
us with the renovations and the upkeep.

616
00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:24,800
And it’s very much appreciated,
that we could do that and

617
00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:27,200
again, share it with the world.

618
00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:33,600
Cross: I just wanna jump in and say that,
you know, the tours really started with

619
00:42:33,600 --> 00:42:40,000
Carlotta and how she would open her doors
to anyone who wanted to see her house.

620
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:44,800
And I think after the MoCA exhibition
and after it started appearing

621
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:50,000
in films and ads and all over the
place—I believe it’s been published

622
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:53,200
in something like 1,200 different
publications—after that happened,

623
00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:58,400
people just started making pilgrimages
to the house from all over the world.

624
00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:02,800
And she would get strangers
knocking on her door, and often

625
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:04,800
they’d run into the street.

626
00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:07,200
But she always let them in.

627
00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:11,200
She’d welcome them in and
say, “Hey, want a Coke?”

628
00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:16,400
And what’s so exceptional about this
is she just never turned anyone away.

629
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:19,600
Imagine that many strangers
knocking on your door.

630
00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:25,200
And in the research for this book, I
tried to find every recorded interview

631
00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:28,000
with Buck and Carlotta that I could.

632
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:34,000
And in one interview, someone asked her,
“So Carlotta, how many people come to your

633
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:40,400
house in a given month?” And she said,
“Oh, in a typical month, no fewer than

634
00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:43,600
1,000.” And I just went, oh, my goodness.

635
00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:44,800
Can you imagine?

636
00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:50,000
Julius Shulman said that Carlotta was
one of the best ambassadors for Modernist

637
00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:54,800
architecture that there ever was
because she opened her house to people.

638
00:43:54,800 --> 00:44:00,400
And so I think it made sense for
the kids to start doing formal

639
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:04,800
tours, which helped with the
upkeep of such an expensive house.

640
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:09,200
But it’s still just a continuation
of Carlotta’s spirit, to let

641
00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:11,600
people in to enjoy this house.

642
00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:13,600
She loved showing it off.

643
00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:20,400
Oh, the other thing I wanted to add is,
I love the story of how whenever people

644
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:27,200
would come, she would go and take all of
the clutter off of the counters and shove

645
00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:33,200
it into the oven and the cabinets, so
that people could enjoy the clean lines

646
00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:35,200
of the architecture without clutter.

647
00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:40,800
Cuno: Tell me what it means that
the house is listed on the National

648
00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:45,200
Register of Historical Places,
which I gather it was in 2013.

649
00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:49,200
Gronwald: Both Bruce and I went—and
actually, Mark was around—when

650
00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:54,000
it actually made the list for the
National Register of Historical Places.

651
00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:55,600
We were very excited.

652
00:44:55,600 --> 00:44:59,200
And we had this feeling that we made it.

653
00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:04,400
We finally got on this register,
after years of wanting to be, and

654
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:09,200
also many years in the making by
the Los Angeles Conservancy group.

655
00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:13,200
It just felt like the house
finally got this honor.

656
00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:17,600
The house is a star; it’s
now on the National Register.

657
00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:22,400
It was a very exciting time, because
the National Historic Landmarks is

658
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:28,400
just—It kinda puts a value to a piece
of property or a structure, and it

659
00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:30,800
illustrates the history of Los Angeles.

660
00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:36,400
And it feels so good to be part
of the history of Los Angeles.

661
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:38,400
And the United States, actually.

662
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:44,000
Cuno: Well, thank you, Shari, Bruce,
and Kim, for giving us so much time

663
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:46,400
on the podcast again this morning.

664
00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:51,600
The house is, without a doubt,
a classic and a durable part of

665
00:45:51,600 --> 00:45:53,200
Los Angeles architecture history.

666
00:45:53,200 --> 00:45:55,600
So we thank you very much.

667
00:45:55,600 --> 00:45:57,600
Cross: Thanks for having us.

668
00:45:57,600 --> 00:45:58,800
Gronwald: Thank you.

669
00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:00,800
Thank you for having us.

670
00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:02,800
Stahl: Thank you very much.

671
00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:04,400
[classical music fades in]

672
00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:09,600
Cuno: This episode was produced by Zoe
Goldman, with audio production by Gideon

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Brower and mixing by Mike Dodge Weiskopf.

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Our theme music comes from the
“The Dharma at Big Sur” composed

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by John Adams, for the opening of
the Walt Disney Concert Hall in Los

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Angeles in 2003, and is licensed
with permission from Hendon Music.

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Look for new episodes of Art + Ideas
every other Wednesday, subscribe

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on Apple Podcasts, Spotify,
and other podcast platforms.

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For photos, transcripts, and more
resources, visit getty.edu/podcasts

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or if you have a question, or an
idea for an upcoming episode, write

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to us at podcasts at getty.edu.

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Thanks for listening.