[01:00:05:19 - 01:00:22:09] Debbie Hi, I'm Debbie. I'm the Managing Director at Jules Verne and I'm really pleased to bring you this bonus episode of Travel for Curious Minds, having just recently returned from the Grand Egyptian Museum. I've asked Steve, our podcast producer, to join me in a conversation today so we can get this episode out to you ahead of the festive season. [01:00:22:09 - 01:00:57:20] Steve This is great fun because number one, I've never been on the Travel for Curious Minds podcast. Obviously, I've produced every episode but this is my first time being on it so I'm very excited. You're at your home office, I'm at my home office. This is not a studio production because you were really keen to talk about your trip as soon as you came back really because there's so much to cover. As you see, I've wanted to get this episode out in time for people to be able to have a listen over the festive season. How many times have you been to Egypt? Good question. [01:00:57:20 - 01:01:02:02] Debbie I would say about 10 or 12 times over the years. You must like it. [01:01:03:09 - 01:01:35:04] Debbie I do. I love Egypt. I have a bit of a soft spot for Egypt because growing up, I never travelled outside of the UK. We went on family holidays to West Witterings, sometimes East Witterings and when I started working for Jules Verne, my first trip was to Egypt and of course we all grow up, don't we, learning about Egypt at school. That just felt like such a treat, really exciting. The first time you travel overseas is somewhere like that. It was great and I've loved it ever since. [01:01:35:04 - 01:01:43:08] Steve If you've been like 10 or 12 times, what's the draw? What is it you love about Egypt? Why do you keep going back? [01:01:43:08 - 01:01:46:03] Debbie I think it's a lot to do with the people. [01:01:47:10 - 01:02:43:21] Debbie The people are so friendly and it's the one comment we get consistently from customers. I'm not sure what people expect when they go to Egypt but the Egyptian hospitality, the friendliness and the smiles and of course the food, the good weather. Occasionally we crave a little bit of sunshine and you're always guaranteed sunshine in Egypt. I think that Egypt also holds such kind of mystery to us. I remember in school learning about the pharaohs or the Nile or hieroglyphs and all of that kind of stuff. It brings it all to life, all of the stuff that I learned in school in my early years. In terms of what I really love about Egypt, I think I love different things about different places in Egypt. Cairo, a very big city, busley and [01:02:45:05 - 01:03:37:12] Debbie there's a lot going on. There's a lot of people. It's exciting. I remember the first time going to Egypt and staying in a hotel and being able to spot the outline of the pyramids right on the edge of the city, some way from the hotel. I'll always remember that moment. Then in Luxor and Aswan, completely different. Typically those places are warmer, they're more humid than Cairo. To be sat on the east bank looking across at the west bank is the energy there. It's really difficult to describe actually, but it feels almost biblical. The way people dress, seeing all of these incredible statues of the kings just as you're driving down the road, of course going over to the Valley of the Kings. There's just so much to see, there's so much to take in. I think for me it feels magical. That's how that destination feels. [01:03:37:12 - 01:03:41:03] Steve A recurring theme on these podcast episodes is food. We love food. [01:03:42:05 - 01:03:44:13] Steve What's Egyptian food like for people who've never been? [01:03:44:13 - 01:05:16:09] Debbie I think that's a really interesting question. When I first started going to Egypt, I think it had a reputation, particularly on Nile cruises, for people getting a bit sick. It's just not like that anymore. On the boats that we use, we actually have the executive chef from the Four Seasons in Cairo. He's trained all of the staff on board. The levels of hygiene are impeccable, using filtered water or mineral water to cleanse every piece of food. The food itself, the presentation of the food is incredible. I've not had anything like it even here in the UK. It's of course something to be enjoyed. There's lots of it. You still need to be a bit careful. It's hot out in Egypt and you need to be drinking lots of water and all of that kind of stuff and not overindulging. It's certainly more of a centerpiece of the trip compared to if I'm going back 20, 30 years, I'd say. Even in restaurants, there's so much choice in restaurants now. Yes, you can get Egyptian food, Lebanese food, but equally you can grab a burger or there's some good vegetarian dishes out there. What seems to be in Cairo quite appealing to the Egyptians at least is more of a tea shop type of environment where people will have sandwiches or salads or soups. There's really something for everyone. [01:05:16:09 - 01:05:43:15] Steve There'll be a number of people listening who would have been to Egypt, but they haven't really been to Egypt. What I mean by that is I think back to Simon Reeve when we chatted with Simon Reeve in that episode and he talked about get out of the hotel, get out of the all-inclusive place. There are a lot of people who go to Egypt because it's the sun, but they never leave the hotel. They're not really experiencing Egypt. They're experiencing a hotel. [01:05:44:20 - 01:06:03:00] Steve Obviously, Jules Verne is more about tours and guides and getting to see the real world. What should people go and see and experience about Egypt that they don't get to see if they're on a packaged holiday in an all-inclusive hotel that they never leave? [01:06:04:03 - 01:06:24:03] Debbie Yeah, it's a really interesting question actually because of course when people are going to Egypt, they want to see the main sights. Of course, you want to go to the pyramids and maybe the Grand Egyptian Museum or you want to go to the Valley of the Kings. Those things are important. It kind of forms the foundations for the reasons why people might be going to that destination. [01:06:25:13 - 01:08:35:01] Debbie But yeah, just to be based at a hotel, leaving a hotel to do a trip and coming back, you're not really experiencing the depth of the destination and what it has to offer. I think a couple of things here for me. Firstly, one of the hotels we use in Egypt is actually in Cairo. Cairo is expanding. You've got kind of downtown Cairo and it's expanding outwards and you've got this new area now which has got more of an Emirati-style feel to it. It's very modern. Lots of Egyptians are kind of living out that way and one of the hotels we use has access to a bit of a plaza where you've got cafes and restaurants and shops. People feel really safe. The feedback we've had from our customers, particularly solo travellers, they feel really safe leaving the hotel, wandering around, sitting outside, a coffee shop, having a coffee and people watching. There you can see these kind of the young Egyptians going out for the evening together. And when I think about Luxor, or even Cairo actually, but Luxor kind of getting lost in the souks or bizzards, buying souvenirs for home, chatting to the locals, having a coffee in amongst all of that hubbub that's going on in the souks is a great way to soak up that local atmosphere and feel a little bit more immersed in the destination. And talking to people, obviously we've got some great guides that will tell you all about Egypt and their civilisation, but also they will share with you some personal stories. But to get a different perspective from a local taxi driver or a shopkeeper to learn a bit more about their life, whether that's their working life or their family life. I think that's that real where you feel really connected to a destination actually is through the people that are in their destination more than the sites, which typically is what drives people to go to these destinations. [01:08:35:01 - 01:09:16:02] Steve The idea of really connecting with people and getting to see and hear people's stories, every guest that's been on this podcast, the ones who've told the most interesting stories, it's always been about the bus breaking down and then being forced into a position where they connect with people rather than being in that sanitised hotel package kind of environment. As Simon Reeve said, it's safer than you think. You might be slightly outside of your comfort zone, but you learn when you're outside of your comfort zone. You fully enjoy yourself and it's an actual experience rather than something packaged and sanitised without [01:09:17:05 - 01:09:21:12] Steve really experiencing. So I've got coffee culture, that surprises me. [01:09:22:14 - 01:09:48:17] Steve I wouldn't have thought that, that's interesting. The vibrancy of Cairo going to the souks and the bazaars and talking to the guides and learning about their families and their stories and so on. So we put the episode out with Tarek and Rania, which hopefully our listeners have just listened to it, just come out before this episode. Jules Verne, you have a very special relationship with Tarek and Rania and their business, don't you? What is it about that relationship? Have you been working together for long? [01:09:49:18 - 01:09:57:11] Debbie I joined Jules Verne 35 years ago and I met Tarek on my first trip when I was 10. [01:09:59:04 - 01:10:12:07] Debbie So when we're sending people around the world, what's really important is that you have absolute faith and trust that the people on the ground are going to look after your customers. I mean, that's really important. [01:10:13:11 - 01:10:44:22] Debbie And we have that trust with Tarek. The detail is very important to him and that he recruits the right people, whether that's the airline reps that are there to meet our guests on arrival, whether it's the guys, whether it's the staff that he's got working across his bows, that we know that that is taken care of. Apart from the fact that he always has some great ideas and that he will make sure we're sourcing tickets for the Grand Egyptian Museum, for example, [01:10:45:22 - 01:11:14:01] Debbie and providing kind of good quality transportation, all these things really, really matter. And the fact that we've been working with him for so long, it's not just about the trust, it's the fact that we've got a good relationship. So when there are things that we want to, I don't know, new tools we want to create or whether there are changes we want to make to existing tools, we know that we've got somebody who will work with us on that and kind of make it happen. [01:11:14:01 - 01:11:46:04] Steve I remember in the episode he was talking about, because he's a real character, isn't he? And we're talking about going and finding broken down old vessels and turning them into something remarkable. And what's really clear is his passion for Jules Verne and the customers and his passion to make the experience really interesting. He's got a real love, hasn't he? And that what both of them have, and that really comes across in their conversation. And I'd imagine in the experience that your guests have with them. [01:11:46:04 - 01:12:14:11] Debbie I think travelling with us or travelling in a small group, what you get with that is a sense of safety. You're guided through that experience, you really just don't have to think about it too much because everything is taken care of for you. You're going to be collected on arrival, taken to your accommodation, supported throughout, great guide, great group of like-minded travellers who are with you to sort of share that experience. So it's a great way to travel. [01:12:14:11 - 01:12:35:15] Steve And the centrepiece, the jewel in the crown that Tarik and Rania talked about experiencing before it was open, but that you have experienced now open is the gem, the Grand Egyptian Museum. So just let loose on that. [01:12:35:15 - 01:14:10:10] Debbie Yeah, I mean, it's just incredible, isn't it? Obviously the world has been waiting for this to open for what feels like years. So when we recorded this podcast a few years ago with Tarik and Rania, and Rania was talking about the gem and she was talking about Ramesses and a floating obelisk. I thought, well, that sounds interesting. And I went on a work trip actually shortly after that. And I said, can I just go and have a look? And it was impressive even then. So really then none of the artefacts or barely any were there or certainly they weren't on display at that time. So all we managed to see was the museum itself, the floating obelisk, which Rania talks about and Ramesses, but really not much else. And then this time, it's incredible. I mean, I was there with a group this time, we took a private group of women actually who booked through Jules Verne. So that was a really interesting experience for me because I was not only seeing the Grand Egyptian Museum and it saw all its glory, but I was experiencing it with a group of women who hadn't been to Egypt before. And it's a bit like Christmas, right? You know, like seeing Christmas through the eyes of a child, it was a little bit like that. We were driving in from Cairo Airport and it was late on a Thursday evening and it was kind of, it was dark. And the guide said, and here on the right, you can see the Grand Egyptian Museum. And there were kind of gasps from around the coach, like people getting out their phones and eager to take photographs. It was all lit up. It looked beautiful. [01:14:11:14 - 01:14:46:22] Debbie And at that point I thought, well, I suppose it's quite an impressive building. It is. And then visiting it on the day we visited it, and obviously it had such a buzz about it with a lot of people. They're not too crowded, but a lot of people there. No doubt, many of them have been just waiting for it to open, experiencing it for the first time. There was a great buzz. As you walk into the entrance of the Grand Egyptian Museum, you see the statue of Amethyst II. And this was at the main railway station in Cairo for many years and they moved him across. [01:14:48:05 - 01:15:29:09] Debbie That's probably, I would say, one of the most popular images that I'm seeing on social media from people that have been, is that statue. It's huge and it's just so impressive. It gives you a sense of the size and scale of the building, that something as big as that is actually housed inside the museum. He's surrounded by very shallow water, which adds to the look and feel of the statue. But I have seen two people run up to this statue, not noticing the water, but you're so impressed and looking up. [01:15:30:09 - 01:15:37:10] Debbie You need to be looking down and the first time it was a small child that did it and that kind of was okay. [01:15:38:18 - 01:15:42:15] Debbie Face plug. The second time it was an adult, it would be embarrassing. [01:15:42:15 - 01:15:48:21] Steve Let me just try and get that out of my mind. You've got this massive statue in a building. [01:15:50:10 - 01:16:32:04] Debbie It's probably my favourite thing actually about Amethyst because it's that first impression. You walk in, you see that, you can't help but think, wow, obviously lots of people wanting to take photos and videos. It draws quite a crowd even in the entrance. When you've got a load of people that are all there for share purpose, you're all there because you're interested in learning and you want to see all this stuff, such a buzz. I think particularly at the moment with it being so new, you really get a sense that people who are there now, they consider themselves lucky. They're not seeing this place years down the line. They're seeing it right now. [01:16:33:11 - 01:17:11:05] Debbie Yes, a great atmosphere. I think the location of this museum is really special. The old museum, this is a beautiful building inside lots of rooms, not that comfortable to walk around in. Whereas this, you've got such space. It really is incredible how that changes your experience of viewing all of these artefacts. With the galleries overlooking the pyramids, that feels really special as well. It just feels like it should have always been there. All of these artefacts are where they belong. It just feels like the right place for them. [01:17:11:05 - 01:17:16:05] Steve So the galleries, they look out, do they? Out to the pyramids, right? [01:17:16:05 - 01:17:55:20] Debbie When you go into the entrance of the museum and you've got this great statue of Ramesses II, you then proceed through up the grand staircase. It's kind of like a travelator where you can just, you're slowly moving up to windows that overlook the pyramids, but on the way up you're seeing some amazing statues and you can take that all in whilst effectively standing still. You can also walk up and some people will choose to do that or they will be guided up. The guide wants to show them certain pieces. [01:17:57:06 - 01:17:58:10] Debbie It's impressive. [01:18:00:15 - 01:18:09:16] Steve And then as you go through the different galleries, how does it arrange? Does it sort of arrange through the ages or what's the layout? [01:18:09:16 - 01:19:14:05] Debbie Yeah, it's arranged in sort of different civilisations and there's over, I think, 100,000 artefacts displayed and I think there's at least 10,000 artefacts that have never been displayed before. So one of the big attractions is obviously the boy king Tutankhamun. It was in the old museum and I've been several times to the old museum and honestly the only thing that I could recall from those visits is the mask and it is what people want to see. They want to see that mask, but it blew me away in this museum. This is the first time that they've got all of his treasures displayed together and it's just incredible. And when they found this tomb, it was much smaller than the other tombs of the other kings yet there was just as much stuff packed in there with him and they don't know whether that's [01:19:16:02 - 01:19:37:13] Debbie why that is because he was only a boy king and one of the theories is actually perhaps the other kings did have more stuff but it was stolen over the years. But they've got everything there, from the mask through to tiny beads that form part of the jewellery that he wore, [01:19:39:11 - 01:20:22:15] Debbie it's just difficult to comprehend that Howard Carter has come across this tomb, found all of this stuff and now it's displayed. And I think the way these things are displayed as well is really clever. I mean it's just in beautiful cases the lighting is obviously just right, it just showcases everything and I'm not just talking about Tutankhamun but I think it's the space in the museum, the way everything is kind of laid out, it's the lighting, it's that you can really get to enjoy the experience, what you're seeing, it just really stays with you or it hasn't at least with me. [01:20:22:15 - 01:20:40:15] Steve I remember Tarek saying that you could spend a week there and at the time I thought is he overselling it but by the sounds of it there's so much there that you know potentially to really get into the detail and learn all the stories and get a feeling for what this is all about you probably could spend a week there. [01:20:40:15 - 01:20:52:03] Debbie Yeah I think you could and that's an interesting one in itself isn't it because I think that we have had customers already who have requested second visits back in the same trip. [01:20:53:14 - 01:21:13:11] Debbie I think that everyone has their own reasons for wanting to visit the gem, some is just to go and have a look and say they've been there or perhaps their focus is on Tutankhamun and others have much more vested interest in Egypt and all those stories and the Egyptology and such like. [01:21:13:11 - 01:21:16:12] Steve Were you based in Cairo when you went on this occasion? [01:21:18:01 - 01:21:34:04] Debbie Yeah so we were based in Cairo, we have a tour called Gems of Cairo and that goes to Cairo for a four-night stay and we include a visit to the museum, we also go to the pyramid so there's a whole program but it's centered around around Cairo. [01:21:34:04 - 01:21:45:00] Steve And that's a four-night stay and presumably you do other tours where people can see more of Egypt and travel further and explore a bit more as well as taking in Cairo and the gem. [01:21:45:00 - 01:22:32:23] Debbie Yeah absolutely so we do the combination between sort of the between kind of the upper Nile region sort of Luxor and Aswan and Cairo, we do a long cruise that kind of cruises all the way up to Cairo or going in the other direction. So there are some people that haven't been to Egypt before and they want to do that. I think the Nile cruise feels quite significant for people and it is incredible when you're sort of sat up on deck and you're almost watching this story unfold as you're sailing down the Nile whether that's I don't know kind of cattle coming to the Nile for a drink or it's children coming to to wave or local vendors on their rowing boats kind of trying to sell you you know their wares, beautiful scenery, [01:22:34:15 - 01:22:46:09] Debbie yeah I think a Nile cruise has a lot to offer. So I think with what we offer now in Egypt there's something for everyone you know there's something for the first timer there's something for those who are returning to Egypt. [01:22:46:09 - 01:23:20:01] Steve And that's kind of coming back full circle to where we started that's really interesting that as someone you know you're in the business you know your onions and if somewhere is not worth visiting you wouldn't pay it a second visit. So the fact that you've been you know a dozen times and yet you're still as excited about this trip as it sounds like you would have you know been when you were 20 that says something about the German and Egypt's enduring charm that it's just an amazing place to keep revisiting. [01:23:20:01 - 01:23:21:09] Debbie Yeah absolutely. [01:23:21:09 - 01:23:40:05] Steve You said when we spoke before we started recording about you have a view that actually it's going to drive a lot of people into Egypt and actually getting getting high quality tours and getting a really good good experience might start to become tricky as time goes on is that right? [01:23:40:05 - 01:23:41:16] Debbie Yeah absolutely. [01:23:41:16 - 01:23:44:00] Steve Yeah there's a bit of a sense of urgency. [01:23:44:00 - 01:24:48:06] Debbie Yeah and we've seen in the last you know two three weeks I would say now people are realizing that the museum's open we've had to add more departure dates to our program to cater for that demand and we're very lucky again working with Tariq to be able to access those tickets to the museum so that we can send groups and we can send groups out there but I kind of really feel that now is the time to go or 2026 is the time to go because I think it's only going to get more popular as word spreads obviously we've all heard that it's been due to open but as more people talk about it and I don't know about you Steve but the last couple of weeks when I there's lots of cover media coverage on the museum there's lots of stuff on social media and it's just going to get busier and busier so you know my you know personal view is that in 2026 is the year to go and who knows you might go and might want to go back a second time right? [01:24:48:06 - 01:26:12:12] Steve Well and also I guess you know being in there right at the start and seeing seeing seeing it you know in its kind of inaugural year as you said you've got people that went on that trip that are ready to book up again and something else that Tariq talked about is the rate at which artifacts change and I mean I don't know what the what the official figure is I'm sure it will change over time but it it sounds like the reality is that you could go once go to back go back two months later and have a different experience so it sounds like it's it's um it's important to kind of to start to explore that now so obviously people can go onto the Jewelswem website and they can research that that gems of Cairo to you talked about is is on there and and you also have a blog on the Jewelswem website which you've said to me before that you know articles and stories are going to start to come on there for people to pay attention to and of course if they subscribe to this fantastic podcast they'll get they'll get further updates and so on. So Debbie thank you so much for spending time talking to us and telling us about your your fantastic trip it's really exciting. Listen obviously you can find out more put all the information in the show notes and and so on. This special episode of Travel for Curious Minds we've we've we've kind of produced quickly so we can get it out over the uh the festive period for people to listen but there will be more next year won't there? [01:26:12:12 - 01:26:26:15] Debbie Yeah absolutely we are in the process of recording our next series of Travel for Curious Minds we've got some great guests lined up some some great stories so looking forward to that um to bringing all of that to everyone next year so make sure you subscribe.