Okay, we're recording.
Welcome to the Hands-On,
Hands-Off podcast brought to you by AONT,
the American Academy of Orthopedic Manual
Physical Therapists.
And today we're really excited to launch
the first of four podcasts,
including iFOMT.
So this is an AONT-iFOMT collaborative.
And so over this series,
we're going to bring you various
conversations with internationally
recognized speakers in orthopedic manual
physical therapy.
So we're really excited to launch this new
series.
And I'm Megan Donaldson.
I'm the president of AOMT.
And of course, I have Amy McDevitt,
who's joining us as a member at large
for our AOMT organization.
And together today,
we are thrilled to join a colleague and
friend, Dr. Paolo Sanas,
who is the president of IVOMT.
So Paolo is an associate professor at
Lakehead University and the Northern
Ontario School of Medicine University,
director of active potential
rehabilitation services and a clinical
specialist in musculoskeletal
physiotherapy in Canada.
He's also a lead instructor and examiner
for the IFOMT accredited Advanced
Integrated Musculoskeletal or AIM program
of the Canadian Physiotherapy Association.
Paolo is also currently the president of
the iFOMT organization.
And in this episode,
we want to explore the iFOMT vision a
bit more and Paolo has had such a
rich contribution to this over the last
many years and its role in shaping global
standards for manual and musculoskeletal
physical therapy with an international
collaboration and what that means for
patients and clinicians worldwide.
So let's go ahead and get started.
Paulo, first, again,
we want to welcome you.
Can you give us just a little bit
of a background on yourself,
if there's anything that wasn't covered in
your introduction?
Thank you very much, Amy and Megan,
for the opportunity to be here today.
And thank you for the very,
very kind words and introduction.
I guess the other thing is,
other than physiotherapy and being a
professor at a university,
I am also
you know,
the husband of a wife that's an
occupational therapist.
And I have two wonderful daughters as well
that are young adults,
one in university still,
and one that is starting her career as
a nurse and going on to grad school
and more education in the future.
And I'm here in Northwestern Ontario,
just north of the Minnesota border as
well, and had some snow overnight.
Yeah, and it's probably very cold.
Well, you know what?
It's been unseasonably warm,
believe it or not,
but we've had the last week or two
things are changing and you can definitely
get a flavor that winter is coming.
That is great.
Well,
thank you for being here despite the cold
and the need to shovel outside,
as you mentioned previously.
So I'm going to dive in.
And what I wanted to start talking about
first, Paolo, is really IFOMS.
So for listeners who may not be familiar,
can you tell us a little bit about
what IFOMS is and what makes it unique
in the global physiotherapy landscape?
That's a great question and a great place
to start.
For people that aren't familiar with what
iFONT is exactly as an organization,
I think we start first with World
Physiotherapy.
World Physiotherapy is the representative
organization globally for all
physiotherapists that work in different
areas of practice.
And they have specialty groups that
represent different,
very specific or very unique
niche-oriented special interest groups.
And iFONT represents the
physiotherapists that work in manual and
musculoskeletal physiotherapy.
And essentially, it is the oldest,
it is the largest representative group for
physiotherapists around the world.
And it is a global representative.
And so tell us a little bit about
the history of some of what your
involvement has been in IFOMT over time.
Yes,
so I was originally part of IFOMT as
the junior delegate representing Canada
and worked with our sort of delegate at
the time to kind of learn and see
what the role was exactly of delegate
representing Canada.
I then was appointed as a treasurer for
the IFOMT executive committee,
so had the capacity to kind of learn
a little bit about the finances and the
finance side of a global organization
I then sat in the vice president's role
for four years and had the opportunity to
work with an amazing executive at that
time,
trying to implement strategy and change
and listen to the delegates and what was
happening around the world.
And in twenty twenty four at the Basel
Conference,
I had the opportunity to now be elected
into the president's role,
which I currently sit in at this time.
Yeah.
And congratulations.
Megan and I were both there for that.
That was really exciting.
It was a wonderful conference.
It was so neat to have all these
different people from different parts of
the world come together and talk about
topics that they're passionate about.
And so, you know,
iFont has been around since nineteen
seventy four.
How do you believe the organization has
really grown over time?
Wow.
That's you know,
it's been fifty one years now for this
organization and it's really evolved,
you know,
originally from the grassroots of a
passionate group of individuals that
really had an interest in manual and
manipulative physiotherapy to the
development of educational standards that
should be part of this organization and
guiding education around the world to now
where it has evolved and integrated
evidence and research into everything that
we do and really try to upskill and
upscale
the organization from a governance
perspective,
from the integration and connection of
clinicians and researchers
and trying to transform and transport that
into our educational system,
whether it is community-based programs,
university-based programs that teach a
variety of topics related to this,
but also the growth of just the profession
and trying to keep up with all of
those changes.
You know,
I've really tried to integrate the history
into sort of the modern contemporary
physiotherapists and the roles
that we have at an organizational level
and also be globally representative and
mindful of where everybody's at around the
world.
Yeah,
and I think that's a really important
you know,
comment and I don't know that I really
appreciated it until I came to some of
the I found conferences.
So I was at Glasgow and then I
was in Basel and it's really interesting,
you know, to your point,
to just see what's happening globally.
A lot of times I think we're myopic
in our own country or region.
And so it's it's interesting to get
together with this group and really see
how things are moving, you know,
not just locally, but worldwide.
What are some of the, like,
what's the vision for iFOMT?
Can you share a little bit of the,
maybe the mission and vision and why it
matters for musculoskeletal health
worldwide?
Yes.
So I think if you think about iFOMT's
vision and we're in the process right now
of rolling out a new strategic plan and
we've just announced a new vision and our
vision is really a world where
musculoskeletal physiotherapy transforms
the lives of our patients
and strengthens global health.
We really want to try to take on
a bigger role as physiotherapists.
The opportunities there,
we have sort of the skill set,
the educational background,
the will to be able to do this.
From a mission perspective,
in terms of our organization,
there's a call for us to take on
different roles and responsibilities.
And we really want to promote and advance
manual and musculoskeletal physiotherapy
worldwide.
And how can we do that?
Well,
we can do that by exchanging scientific
knowledge.
We want to try to encourage research and
innovation and connect clinicians and
researchers and really try to support and
foster higher educational and clinical
standards and really try to represent
physiotherapists around the world
internationally.
And how can we do that?
I think we can do that through
collaboration and continuing to use
evidence-informed practices and answer
some of the difficult discussions and
questions that people are having,
but at the same time,
to also not be afraid to say,
we don't know,
and we need to continue to build on
that knowledge and motivate people to
continue to learn.
Yeah, I think that's great.
And some of my own observations are that
know the collaborations that are happening
across this organization with people in
different regions of the world is really
incredible and i i love that the the
vision is is i see it playing out
in real time and i i think it's
fantastic um i'm gonna turn it over to
megan to ask you know just a couple
questions that um she's interested about
So Paolo, I mean, again, IFOMT has been,
I love the word evolving.
I mean, you have been highlighting that,
the growth,
hearing the needs and responding, right?
I mean,
I think that's a job of any organization.
And I share that understanding is
obviously present of AOMT.
You're learning, you're receiving,
you're growing,
and we're trying to constantly integrate
what we're learning from an evidence
standpoint into practice.
And so let's dive a little bit more
into maybe some standards in education,
because
Obviously, IFOMT has a huge role there,
especially as the group that's, you know,
we have these standards and these
standards are used across the world,
which is pretty important.
And so IFOMT established rigorous
standards for education and practice,
especially for advanced musculoskeletal
manual therapy.
And so what does that process look like
for a member organization?
So maybe talk a little bit about that
so they can understand how do we get
to be an MO and why is that
so important?
Yeah, thanks, Megan.
And that's the foundation really for our
organization.
And it also makes us unique from other
special interest groups within World
Physiotherapy.
We are the only one that actually has
a standard by which countries need to meet
that standard in order to be a full
member organization.
So what might this look like?
You know,
this might be a country that is not
part of our organization that has an
interest in A, being part of this group.
also looking at the programs within,
program or programs,
it could be multiple programs within that
country,
and looking at the curriculum that they
have set,
and making sure that it meets the
different competencies, pillars,
dimensions that are identified in the
IFLMP Educational Standards document.
Now,
what they do is they essentially compile
all of this information,
and with the work and assistance of some
of the
advisory groups that we have,
and it's the advisory group on membership
development.
They would work really closely with that
group essentially to make sure that
they've got everything that's required
there.
At that stage of the game,
it then is submitted to IFONT,
who has the standards committee and the
executive committee essentially looking at
that material,
and the standards committee would
independently,
very closely and objectively compare it to
the current standards document that we
have.
And essentially what they do is they
provide some feedback on things that have
met the standard versus things that that
country maybe needs to work on.
Now,
if the application and those standards
meet this fairly high level,
rigorous educational standard that has
been set,
then what happens is the delegate assembly
would vote on this country being part of
the standards, being part of IFUNCT.
And at that stage,
they would then enter into this
international monitoring process,
which is one of the benefits of making
sure that those countries continue to have
these high educational standards threaded
through their curriculum from that point
forward.
Yeah,
there's so much to unpack in that because
I remember when we got to vote on
some of these countries and there's such
pride in that.
Watching them go from a rig to an
MO and knowing that they've invested
energy, time,
and resources in some countries that just
don't have as much time, energy,
and resource.
Seeing the passion of some individuals
bringing that forward and carrying that
along the way.
I met with some of the groups and
that was really,
really a
a unique experience to watch them,
you know,
be announced as an MO and the pride
that you can see that that brought.
So,
and then you talked a little bit about,
you know,
the packaging where you go and you're
supporting them and the groups that are
doing that, you know,
and I think this is where maybe you
can talk about maybe the IAM monitoring
process a little bit more because my
question,
and I think this is more from a
worldwide,
understand that maybe in the US we're
thinking about competency-based education.
You all have talked about criterion-based
education, different aspects of it.
But how does IFOMP ensure consistency,
maybe in these clinical competencies
across all these countries and cultures
that might have varying resources and
supports?
And so maybe you can talk a little
bit about that and unpack that.
What I am monitoring is after they become
an MO.
Yeah, that's great.
So so essentially and let me maybe preface
it first by saying, you know,
the intent is to try to review the
standards document in periodic segments.
And we're currently doing that right now.
and we're updating the standards document
to, again,
try to make it more contemporary,
try to update it with the evidence.
Much of the content that's in there
already is still very, very good,
but it's really to add more to it.
Now,
from an international monitoring
perspective,
as with the development of the new
standards document,
the processes are also under kind of
review and development and being modified.
Now,
if we look at how does this normally
happen?
A country,
once they become a member of IFOM,
they then undergo international monitoring
approximately once every six years.
And this is a pretty big deal.
You know,
this is a really big job for the
countries.
It's fairly labor intensive.
There's a cost,
whether it's time or cost for the process
undertaking itself.
So I think as an organization,
we need to rely on the national
accreditation bodies that programs have
you know, independently,
some on a yearly basis.
But every six years,
what will happen is an external assessor
essentially reviews and provides some
feedback and input with regards to what
their thoughts are on changes or
modifications that have been done to those
programs and across all aspects of the
program, not just curriculum.
It could be,
what did they do from the practical
application sense?
How do they deliver some of that
content that feedback from an external
assessor then comes back to the standards
committee who obviously will compare it to
you know where were they in the past
when they were either monitored previously
or if they were some a country that
was relatively new they'll kind of monitor
and again provide some suggestions on how
and what they can maybe focus on for
the next monitoring also if there are some
deficiencies
that would be flagged or that would be
highlighted.
And moving forward in the future,
the hope is we've got some really seasoned
countries that they've been doing this for
a long time.
They're really,
really well established that have been
monitored four or five times.
So I think what we'll sort of see
in the future is that some countries,
it will be a little more of a
streamlined approach,
others
might have more of a directed type of
approach where it was really this
particular aspect that we needed to look
at.
Tell us about how that might be changed
versus others that might have,
we've got a new program within this
respective country that might be a bit
more of a comprehensive type of a review.
Essentially, by using that,
that's how we ensure that all of these
countries with external assessors,
with the standards committee,
with the self-reflection process of those
individual countries,
That allows us to ensure that clinical
competency is met and those high standards
are maintained throughout.
Yeah.
And that's, I mean, again,
that's such a job for an organization to
keep that high level standard.
And again, when I say standard,
it's that commonality across all these
countries that we can have trust and know
that
what you're doing in your country is
similar to our country.
And that's what I think the beauty is
and really appreciating IFOM's heavy work
in that space because I know it has
to evolve too, right?
Like again,
I appreciate kind of the pragmatic nature
that I hear the responsiveness rather than
this is the prescriptive approach.
I might be wearing a little bit of
an accreditation lens at times and I'm
like, man,
sometimes this just could be a little
easier.
And so it sounds like you guys are
making some thoughtful transitions
in ways to kind of be responsive to
needs, which I really can appreciate.
I'd love to take it another direction and
maybe look a little bit more at a
scholarship,
but really evidence-based practice as we
think about scholarship,
maybe a little bit more education.
And we've talked a little bit about that,
so we can dive into that.
But education also then means
evidence-based practice,
how we're training people,
how we're seeing things happening in the
clinic.
As you've mentioned,
iFOMD really emphasizes evidence-based
practice and looking at that integration
into your standards and how we make
clinical practice across the world to meet
the vision.
So how do you see research shaping
education and practice of musculoskeletal
manual therapy in the next decade?
If you maybe can give us some thoughts
there.
Yeah,
so I think everything that we do is...
is centered with evidence.
We have to be clinically informed by what
the best available evidence is at that
time.
But at the same time,
I think we also need to realize as
clinicians, as researchers,
as an organization,
the limitations of the evidence,
whether it's the designs,
whether it's the interpretation of the
information, whether it's the context.
And the context could be so very different
if I'm in North America,
if I am in Europe,
if I'm in South America, Africa, Asia,
Wherever I am in the world,
the context and the person in front of
me is so very different.
And the makeup,
we just don't have a one size fits
all.
And I think that sometimes we try to
oversimplify the evidence and we try to do
that purposefully, I think,
to try to get the message across to
clinicians,
to other health care providers,
to our patients as well.
But I think the evidence is really what
guides everything that we do.
And as an organization in developing the
standards many, many years ago,
they were driven by the evidence and the
research that was being performed in this,
not even just in this space,
but in other spaces and just evolving the
role of physiotherapy in all different
conditions.
Yeah.
And, you know,
when you identify like person-centered
care and we're seeing the growth,
you know,
you think about in person-centered care,
where they came from,
their environment and their cultures.
have such a huge impact because, I mean,
it even goes to external validity of any
study, right?
Can you relate it back to that population
in which the sample came from?
And if your cultures are vastly different,
it makes it really hard to generalize some
of those things.
So that may be part of the reason
we see a variety of results in different
studies, again,
based on the populations in which they're
sampled.
which might be different countries for
iFont, right?
So that leads me to my next one,
which is really how does iFont play a
role in really promoting kind of research
in this collaboration model that we need
to do internationally?
Well, you know,
I really think that the iFont is the
conduit.
It's the organizer that will sort of bring
the different clinicians and researchers
around the world together with a common
passion or interest.
you know,
I've developed several position statements
that, you know, relate back to, you know,
the cervical artery dissections or,
you know,
challenges with the vertebral artery and
vertebral basilar system.
That was maybe one of our first and
sort of outputs that occurred.
I think recognizing that we then need to
be more that knowledge broker,
that knowledge translator and
disseminator, you know,
developing position statements around
you know,
recognizing red flags or serious
pathology, recognizing, you know,
the use of pediatric manipulation and
continuing to sort of develop these
special interests that really continue to
inform different aspects of manual and
musculoskeletal physiotherapy is sort of
the role where iFOMT sort of helps to
develop that.
We also are a conduit where people can
have a wider group to get different
perspectives as opposed to it just being
I'm from Canada,
just Canadian-driven perspective.
By integrating IFOMP,
now we're able to have this global
community of either researchers and
collaborators that are directly involved
in the projects or having the input from
different perspectives around the world.
And I really think
that that will continue to be a big
role that iPhone plays in different topic
areas.
And it could be topical depending upon
what's going on at that time in the
world.
It could be something that we build on
as the research develops.
This also drives some of our speakers at
different conferences that we have or
courses and workshops that people have.
And again,
it's iPhone's ability to be able to
connect some of those people, I think.
It's wonderful.
Hey, thanks so much.
Cause I know this is like,
this would be a passion topic.
We could just have one podcast just on
this alone.
Right.
So thanks for going to give an issue
of vision there.
Yeah.
And I think I, you know,
I think it's really important to hear
about some of these collaborations that
have occurred really as a result of IFONT
organizing researchers and clinicians from
different parts of the world to come up
with some of these standards,
because again,
I think it's important that IFOMT is the
body that kind of initiates some of these
collaboratives.
And you spoke about, you know,
some of the VBI work and then the
Pediatric Manipulation Task Force.
And a lot of those products, you know,
are the currency of this organization.
And I think it's fantastic.
And they're used and I think and adopted
broadly because you're able to bring in
people from different parts of the world.
I think that's really important work.
But I know with that also comes,
you know,
challenges in terms of collaborating
globally.
And what do you think some of those
challenges but also opportunities are?
Because this is really the organization
that's trying to unite manual therapy
standards and work globally.
So again,
what are some of the challenges that you
see, Paulo,
and what are some of the opportunities?
I think the biggest challenge is even at
a professional level,
meaning that the role and abilities of
physiotherapists
are different depending upon different
parts of the world and the education that
they have to get to that stage.
Some countries are still at a bachelor's
level, other are at a postgraduate level,
whether it's a master's or a doctoral
level.
So that creates a
quite a broad spectrum of entry-level
physiotherapy that they have.
Now, post-professionally as well,
there's quite a variety of community-based
versus university-based educational
programs post-professionally.
Now,
we know that the curriculum within those
programs meets the standards,
so they should be at that consistent
level.
But the different responsibilities and
educational levels also align with
national standards
alliances with your regulatory bodies.
So because you know what you can do
in one part of the world,
you may not be able to do in
another part of the world.
kind of creates some challenges,
especially when you're trying to either
develop research that's trying to elevate,
continually elevate what we do.
Well, in some countries,
they're not there yet.
They may not be there for five or
ten years.
So that creates both a challenge but also
an opportunity within those through
advocacy,
through demonstrating what they are able
to do in some countries and the success
as well as the cost benefits that come
with that.
You know,
some of the other challenges are obviously
fiscal,
meaning that there are some individuals
that have infrastructure or funding that
is available.
And of course,
we all know that with research,
if you have some funds,
it sometimes makes it a little bit easier.
So those are definitely some of the
challenges, but as well,
the opportunities.
And I think with that,
it builds other opportunities,
other opportunities to educate and upskill
some of the programs and physios around
the world,
or
some of the countries that are not even
part of world physiotherapy yet wow what
an opportunity we have as physiotherapists
and wouldn't you want us to be the
people that are teaching them about manual
and musculoskeletal physiotherapy as
opposed to trying to do this independently
because they're not going to get there
it's going to be really challenging for
them at the best of times
Yeah,
and I think what's my observation is that
countries can't elevate their standards of
practice without having access to people
to help them get there.
And so we did host on this podcast
a couple of months ago an individual from
Kenya and then also from Uganda.
And it was really interesting to hear
about some of the challenges.
But what I was pleased to hear is
how they're leveraging people within the
organization
to help start moving the needle in some
of these countries, you know,
to kind of elevate standards of practice
and get them closer, you know,
both clinically and from an educational
standpoint.
So how does iFOMT currently operate with
international organizations and other
international groups?
And then how do you think organizations
like our organization,
AOMT and iFOMT can really continue to work
together to advance the profession?
Well,
I think one of the big things is
many of our working groups, task forces,
committees are made up of international
individuals.
We really try to be cognizant of trying
to include, you know, English,
non-English, male, female, Western,
Eastern, Northern,
Southern individuals within the committee.
So that allows, you know,
individuals that maybe would never have
had an opportunity to be part of some
of these discussions and initiatives.
They now have that capability.
The other thing is we also try to
have sort of an idea of what's occurring
regionally in the different areas.
And this kind of goes back to our
delegates.
Our delegates that represent those
countries will bring different concerns,
challenges, opportunities forward to us.
It doesn't mean that we have the answers,
but we can sometimes disseminate them or
connect them to other individuals in other
countries that may have had similar
challenges or experiences,
and they can explain how they've handled
it.
With our fifty one year history,
we've probably seen it at some point in
time.
And as such, we also have, you know,
files or notes that sometimes point to
similar things.
So we try to utilize that.
The other thing is by working with other
special interest groups that we have some
collaborations that we've done in the past
and we'll be doing more of in the
future.
And they're approaching us,
whether it's in, you know, sports,
oncology,
looking at the older age group and
fractures, again,
developing those position statements from
different perspectives,
but also having these different groups or
different parts of the world where we
might have sort of regionally dedicated
events in countries that maybe they
wouldn't normally be able to attend an
IFOMP conference in some big location
because of the costs or
prohibitive nature of travel and things
like that.
We've got an IFOMP Africa event,
speaking of some of the African countries,
in April of twenty twenty six.
And our hope is to continue to try
to do that and utilize the valuable input
from AOMPT,
from all of the different organizations
that really have done this for a long
time and continue to evolve.
But they're evolving at a different pace
than maybe some of our newer member
organizations.
Yeah, yeah.
And then how do you think our organization
AOMT and IFOMT can come together and work
together even to kind of leverage what's
happening globally?
Well, I think the big thing is,
you know,
physiotherapists continuing to get
involved,
put their names forward for different,
whether it's national or whether it's
international committees.
And, you know,
we have lots of individuals that are quite
interested in, you know, getting involved,
but we also have some that are nervous,
that are new to this,
some that don't want to be involved,
and that's okay because of capacity or
other issues.
And I think when we look at,
you know, AOMT and IFOMS partnership,
Over the many, many, many decades,
it's been a real strong and important
partnership.
I think it's very important for us to
always sort of be quite honest and
upfront.
We don't always, you know,
not just the organization and all
countries come at it from a different
perspective.
And as has been the case,
even with AOMT and IFOMT,
you're going to look at it from a
unique perspective.
And I thought we'll try to look at
it from a global perspective,
but I think that's the beauty.
I think that's the perspective we need to
bring because it is very important for,
you know,
me as a physiotherapist in Canada might be
very different than the perspective that's
happening somewhere else globally.
And we have to understand that,
try to find that common sort of language
interest initiative, but at the same time,
recognize the differences and that's
totally okay as well.
Yeah.
I think that's really important.
And, and,
You know,
jumping off from those statements,
what do you see as some of the
priorities then over the next couple of
years?
I mean,
we've really gotten to see a number of,
as you mentioned,
task forces take shape that have some
international representation,
which are really moving some of the work
forward.
But what else is what else is coming
down the pipeline, Paulo,
in the next couple of years?
Well, I think, you know, the big thing,
if we think about our strategic plan,
excellence,
continuing to promote excellence,
continuing to use
you know, the standards that we have,
you know, modernizing,
making them evidence informed with the
contemporary literature,
but at the same time,
balancing that with
equity and inclusivity.
And what I mean by that is just
making sure that we don't continue to
evolve at such a pace that we forget
about countries and programs that are a
different level and giving them the
opportunity to be part of this and try
to come up with an idea to make
it not prohibitive for whatever that might
be, whether it is costs,
whether it is a location.
I think we can do it.
We've definitely learned ways of doing
things.
Empowerment, giving the clinicians
giving the the teachers the researchers
the ability to do this and to do
this in this larger community and
collaborating at a global level but also
doing it professionally compassionately in
a culturally sensitive manner and always
above all maintaining integrity and
representing our profession as a
physiotherapist
in the most positive sense,
and maybe leaving some of the agendas at
the door.
And again,
really maintaining that professional
integrity.
I think those are some of the things
that I hope to see.
And continued growth,
growth in all aspects, research,
growth in the representation around the
world,
and just in our role as an organization
at a global level.
And we're already seeing it.
and being asked for more and more
involvement.
And it's a really,
really exciting time and a real
opportunity,
but it's gonna come with challenges as
well.
Sure,
and I really like and appreciate how you
really boiled this all down to the
patient.
You know,
there's a lot that happens at the level
of an organization,
but what you just said is really critical,
which is, you know,
it's about all of us coming together to
try to really optimize
outcomes in terms of the human that's in
front of us that we're treating and
managing.
And it really does come back to the
patient.
And so I like that you kind of
grounded us back in that.
Speaking of the patient and the clinical
interface that we have with patients,
what's one piece of advice that you might
give to clinicians that are striving for
excellence in manual therapy?
Well,
I think the big thing is you're going
to keep learning.
I think the
what I'm sort of seeing sometimes in the
new learners or new physiotherapists,
and it's not just physiotherapy driven.
I think we're in an age now where
we can kind of look up things very
quickly on our devices,
but it's a world that is evolving at
such a quick pace that you need to
continue to keep learning,
keep an open mind.
There is so many things that we can
kind of take advantage of and try to
continue to learn from the research,
continue to learn from the different
program and opportunities.
that we have and try not to just
get,
don't let some of the paradigms that are
shifting sometimes only in one direction,
modify the variety of things that you can
offer to those individuals and use them
within the context of your setting,
wherever you are geographically with the
person that's in front of you.
Yeah, thank you for that.
That's great.
It's a great kind of close to this
conversation.
Megan,
what would you like to add as we
kind of wrap up our conversation with
Paolo Sanzo?
Yeah, Paolo, so first of all,
thank you so much for all you do
and, you know,
just the leadership that you have given
for so many years.
And I think, you know,
you leave this kind of a conversation,
hopefully our listeners will too,
by feeling inspired by it, right?
There's a lot of questions around what's
the role of nanotherapy and what does
excellence look like?
And how do we advance our professions?
And what does collaboration look like?
And why is AOMT a part of iFOMT?
And like all the questions.
And I hope that this conversation actually
helps
We see ourselves as leaders in the
profession and the opportunity to
collaborate with other really incredible
leaders to advance this as practice is
such a unique way for us to really
show our organizational alignment that
helps you meet your vision,
helps us meet our vision.
And again, collaboration,
I love that word.
I think this is just the start of
a lot of excitement.
However,
I will always say growth is hard and
everything worthwhile is uphill.
And I know you have experienced that.
We've been experiencing this for years.
We're just grateful for your leadership as
you're doing that work.
Thank you both for the opportunity.
Yeah,
and I was just going to say for
listeners who are clinicians or
researchers or educators,
I think if you haven't poked around or
looked at the iFOMT website,
there's so many incredible resources.
And I think to Megan's point and Paolo's
point,
we're only going to get better and
stronger if we have more context
about what's going on internationally and
not just in our own countries,
in our own regions.
And so looking at the website,
looking at some of the resources,
I think it's a it's a great way
to continue to grow, you know,
as a professional in in all capacities.
Well, thank you for you know,
we've got two brilliant minds here on
screen here,
and thank you for all of the work
that you guys have done in your
leadership,
in your research and teaching and all
aspects.
And again,
I look forward to working again with you
guys more in the future and just all
of the physiotherapists around the world
and those collaborations and friendships
and the networking.
That is probably the best part of
everything that we do as well.
Agreed.
Thank you, Paolo, for being with us today.
Thank you.