WEBVTT 00:00:03.674 --> 00:00:07.500 All right, welcome to Hands On, Hands Off, 00:00:08.099 --> 00:00:09.381 where we explore the minds 00:00:09.422 --> 00:00:10.483 shaping the future of 00:00:10.602 --> 00:00:12.144 manual therapy and rehab. 00:00:12.666 --> 00:00:14.688 I'm your host today, Moyo Tillery, 00:00:14.807 --> 00:00:15.609 and we're thrilled to 00:00:15.648 --> 00:00:17.310 welcome Dr. Myra Meekins, 00:00:17.751 --> 00:00:19.274 a physical therapist, educator, 00:00:19.314 --> 00:00:20.195 and thought leader in 00:00:20.254 --> 00:00:22.077 orthopedic manual physical therapy. 00:00:22.978 --> 00:00:24.998 Dr. Meekins has been at the 00:00:25.099 --> 00:00:26.599 forefront of integrating 00:00:27.039 --> 00:00:28.300 motor learning and behavior 00:00:28.339 --> 00:00:30.900 change principles into clinical education, 00:00:31.481 --> 00:00:33.341 challenging the old adage 00:00:33.462 --> 00:00:35.142 that practice makes perfect. 00:00:35.841 --> 00:00:37.563 So today we'll dive into how 00:00:37.603 --> 00:00:39.023 clinicians can move beyond 00:00:39.082 --> 00:00:41.643 repetition and into purposeful, 00:00:41.723 --> 00:00:43.045 transformative learning. 00:00:43.064 --> 00:00:44.005 So let's get started. 00:00:45.005 --> 00:00:46.185 Dr. Meekins, welcome. 00:00:46.286 --> 00:00:47.405 To kick things off, 00:00:47.426 --> 00:00:48.447 can you share a bit about 00:00:48.466 --> 00:00:49.487 your journey into physical 00:00:49.527 --> 00:00:50.627 therapy and orthopedic 00:00:50.746 --> 00:00:51.987 manual physical therapy? 00:00:52.987 --> 00:00:53.226 Sure. 00:00:53.387 --> 00:00:54.987 Thank you so much for having me. 00:00:56.228 --> 00:00:58.170 So I began my physical 00:00:58.210 --> 00:01:01.411 therapy career in Nashville, Tennessee. 00:01:01.631 --> 00:01:03.652 I graduated with a 00:01:03.712 --> 00:01:04.873 bachelor's in physical 00:01:04.912 --> 00:01:06.953 therapy from Tennessee State University. 00:01:07.513 --> 00:01:10.555 From there, I went back home to Memphis, 00:01:10.575 --> 00:01:12.376 Tennessee, where I 00:01:13.376 --> 00:01:14.778 worked hospital-based. 00:01:14.819 --> 00:01:15.900 So that was my first job, 00:01:15.920 --> 00:01:17.262 a geriatric hospital where 00:01:17.281 --> 00:01:18.703 I had the opportunity to 00:01:18.864 --> 00:01:20.266 rotate through acute care, 00:01:20.305 --> 00:01:21.727 skilled nursing, rehab, 00:01:21.766 --> 00:01:23.950 and outpatient to get a 00:01:23.989 --> 00:01:25.492 variety of settings. 00:01:26.272 --> 00:01:27.353 But I always knew that 00:01:27.513 --> 00:01:29.716 outpatient was where I wanted to 00:01:30.878 --> 00:01:32.519 end up being my primary home. 00:01:32.899 --> 00:01:34.599 So after a couple of years, 00:01:34.620 --> 00:01:35.739 I transitioned to a 00:01:35.780 --> 00:01:38.200 different hospital where I 00:01:38.240 --> 00:01:40.862 was primarily hospital based outpatient. 00:01:40.882 --> 00:01:42.322 So if you've worked in that setting, 00:01:42.362 --> 00:01:42.683 you know, 00:01:42.742 --> 00:01:46.665 you can get you can get a ACL injury, 00:01:46.704 --> 00:01:47.725 you can get a stroke, 00:01:47.926 --> 00:01:48.926 you can get an amputee, 00:01:49.066 --> 00:01:52.007 you can get a COPD pulmonary rehab. 00:01:52.027 --> 00:01:54.128 So you get really good at 00:01:56.695 --> 00:01:58.816 seeing function and what's 00:02:00.236 --> 00:02:03.257 the main thing that needs 00:02:03.298 --> 00:02:05.179 to get this person to meet 00:02:05.239 --> 00:02:07.340 their goals versus getting 00:02:07.739 --> 00:02:09.460 too caught in the weeds. 00:02:09.539 --> 00:02:11.901 So did that for about four or five years. 00:02:11.941 --> 00:02:12.520 From there, 00:02:12.961 --> 00:02:15.262 I eventually started working in 00:02:15.382 --> 00:02:17.543 occupational rehabilitation. 00:02:18.302 --> 00:02:19.503 for about seven years. 00:02:19.704 --> 00:02:21.064 And so during that time is 00:02:21.085 --> 00:02:22.186 when I had the opportunity 00:02:22.225 --> 00:02:23.366 to complete a manual 00:02:23.407 --> 00:02:24.867 therapy certification and 00:02:24.949 --> 00:02:27.050 fellowship through Manual 00:02:27.090 --> 00:02:28.191 Therapy Institute. 00:02:28.290 --> 00:02:30.633 I did their Detroit program 00:02:31.032 --> 00:02:33.514 and did my fellowship hours in Austin, 00:02:33.574 --> 00:02:35.116 Texas with Peter Kroon. 00:02:36.538 --> 00:02:37.699 Also during that time, 00:02:37.758 --> 00:02:38.919 I had the opportunity to 00:02:39.719 --> 00:02:40.941 become board certified in 00:02:41.061 --> 00:02:42.663 orthopedic physical therapy. 00:02:43.544 --> 00:02:45.449 I caught that learning buzz 00:02:45.528 --> 00:02:46.891 and went back and got my 00:02:46.932 --> 00:02:48.156 transitional doctorate of 00:02:48.175 --> 00:02:50.622 physical therapy from Regis University. 00:02:52.018 --> 00:02:53.579 And then eventually I 00:02:54.239 --> 00:02:55.679 learned a lot about 00:02:55.959 --> 00:02:58.080 movement diagnosis and 00:02:58.139 --> 00:02:59.460 movement system impairments 00:02:59.479 --> 00:03:00.920 during my manual therapy 00:03:00.961 --> 00:03:04.081 fellowship and a little bit 00:03:04.201 --> 00:03:06.223 about Washington University 00:03:06.402 --> 00:03:07.582 and Shirley Sarman. 00:03:08.323 --> 00:03:08.902 And so I took some 00:03:08.943 --> 00:03:11.283 coursework through the APTA 00:03:11.463 --> 00:03:13.324 and learned they had a fellowship there. 00:03:14.104 --> 00:03:15.745 I applied and was able to do 00:03:15.805 --> 00:03:17.526 a one-year fellowship at 00:03:17.586 --> 00:03:19.026 Washington University 00:03:19.066 --> 00:03:20.627 School of Medicine in St. 00:03:20.667 --> 00:03:22.926 Louis learning movement 00:03:22.947 --> 00:03:23.926 system impairments. 00:03:24.127 --> 00:03:26.608 From there, I transitioned to teaching, 00:03:26.867 --> 00:03:28.288 first at Arkansas State 00:03:28.388 --> 00:03:31.408 University for almost five years. 00:03:32.609 --> 00:03:34.349 The past ten years, 00:03:34.590 --> 00:03:35.569 I was at University of 00:03:35.590 --> 00:03:36.729 Tennessee Health Science 00:03:36.770 --> 00:03:38.251 Center in Memphis, Tennessee. 00:03:39.891 --> 00:03:41.532 And I have recently, 00:03:41.693 --> 00:03:43.935 as early as January of twenty twenty five, 00:03:44.335 --> 00:03:46.717 started at the University of Memphis, 00:03:47.037 --> 00:03:48.378 which is developing a 00:03:48.438 --> 00:03:49.719 doctoral physical therapy 00:03:49.800 --> 00:03:51.381 program where I'm having 00:03:51.401 --> 00:03:54.704 the opportunity to help 00:03:54.723 --> 00:03:55.965 with developing the curriculum. 00:03:56.705 --> 00:03:58.526 Oh, and I forgot my Ph.D. 00:03:58.926 --> 00:04:00.647 was from Rocky Mountain 00:04:00.807 --> 00:04:02.610 University of Health Professions. 00:04:02.629 --> 00:04:04.872 So I've completed that in 00:04:04.912 --> 00:04:06.473 twenty twenty and at 00:04:06.854 --> 00:04:08.437 did a little certification 00:04:08.497 --> 00:04:09.938 in health and wellness coaching, 00:04:09.979 --> 00:04:11.342 which is kind of 00:04:11.361 --> 00:04:12.824 contributed to some of that 00:04:12.864 --> 00:04:15.288 behavior change and using 00:04:15.348 --> 00:04:17.031 some of those techniques in 00:04:17.612 --> 00:04:18.875 teaching and helping to 00:04:18.915 --> 00:04:19.956 drive deeper learning. 00:04:20.952 --> 00:04:21.874 Yeah, no, that's great. 00:04:21.913 --> 00:04:23.473 Thank you, Dr. Meekins. 00:04:23.553 --> 00:04:25.115 And, you know, 00:04:25.134 --> 00:04:26.696 I love hearing about your 00:04:26.755 --> 00:04:27.997 story and your path. 00:04:28.036 --> 00:04:29.857 It's rich, it's inspiring. 00:04:30.557 --> 00:04:32.117 And I, you know, 00:04:32.137 --> 00:04:33.619 we talked about this a little bit, 00:04:33.639 --> 00:04:35.980 which is how much we have in common, 00:04:36.600 --> 00:04:37.761 thinking about our work in 00:04:37.901 --> 00:04:39.781 occupational health and at Concentra, 00:04:39.802 --> 00:04:40.781 where I spent, you know, 00:04:40.802 --> 00:04:42.023 a couple years as well in 00:04:42.062 --> 00:04:43.024 training through MTI. 00:04:43.244 --> 00:04:43.803 It's been 00:04:44.783 --> 00:04:46.004 something that we have in common. 00:04:46.745 --> 00:04:47.586 And obviously, too, 00:04:47.646 --> 00:04:51.348 now moving from clinical 00:04:51.389 --> 00:04:52.529 practice to academia. 00:04:53.430 --> 00:04:54.190 But back to you, 00:04:54.271 --> 00:04:56.372 from clinical practice to 00:04:56.392 --> 00:04:58.793 curriculum development and 00:04:59.314 --> 00:05:00.935 some of your background training, 00:05:00.995 --> 00:05:02.276 like your PhD, 00:05:02.456 --> 00:05:03.497 driving some of your 00:05:03.658 --> 00:05:04.778 interest in this work, 00:05:05.678 --> 00:05:07.240 you've worn and continue to 00:05:07.279 --> 00:05:08.120 wear many hats. 00:05:08.940 --> 00:05:11.002 When we first started this discussion, 00:05:11.041 --> 00:05:13.043 you mentioned that you have 00:05:13.064 --> 00:05:14.764 an interest and a passion 00:05:14.824 --> 00:05:15.944 for building or for 00:05:15.985 --> 00:05:17.125 bridging the gap between 00:05:17.185 --> 00:05:19.846 research and real-world 00:05:19.887 --> 00:05:22.908 clinical application of OMPT principles. 00:05:23.569 --> 00:05:25.170 And more importantly, 00:05:25.230 --> 00:05:26.451 the clinical impact of all 00:05:26.471 --> 00:05:27.552 of these things put together. 00:05:28.543 --> 00:05:30.185 So can you share a little 00:05:30.225 --> 00:05:32.209 bit about what has inspired 00:05:32.249 --> 00:05:33.971 your path to doing this 00:05:34.031 --> 00:05:35.273 work a little bit more? 00:05:35.793 --> 00:05:39.177 You touched on it in your PhD work, 00:05:39.259 --> 00:05:40.821 but can you tell us in detail, 00:05:41.300 --> 00:05:42.543 maybe in more details about 00:05:42.742 --> 00:05:44.204 what has continued to 00:05:44.264 --> 00:05:46.148 inspire you into doing this work? 00:05:47.745 --> 00:05:48.004 Yes. 00:05:48.065 --> 00:05:48.505 Well, 00:05:48.665 --> 00:05:51.810 my first inspiration was in PT school, 00:05:51.850 --> 00:05:53.351 you know, it's knowledge, you know, 00:05:53.391 --> 00:05:55.353 given to you by fire hose. 00:05:55.394 --> 00:05:57.076 And so then when I got out 00:05:57.115 --> 00:05:58.958 and started practicing, I was like, oh, 00:05:59.177 --> 00:06:00.980 I needed to retain that information. 00:06:01.581 --> 00:06:05.105 And so, you know, I was really inspired. 00:06:06.603 --> 00:06:07.985 passionate about helping my 00:06:08.045 --> 00:06:09.005 patients get better. 00:06:09.446 --> 00:06:11.226 And so, you know, at that time I was, 00:06:11.906 --> 00:06:13.408 you know, a little insecure, you know, 00:06:13.447 --> 00:06:14.709 how sometimes we have a 00:06:14.728 --> 00:06:16.029 little imposter syndrome 00:06:16.891 --> 00:06:18.331 about my foundation. 00:06:18.492 --> 00:06:20.713 And so even though now in 00:06:20.752 --> 00:06:21.512 twenty twenty five, 00:06:21.533 --> 00:06:23.595 I have this big alphabet behind my name. 00:06:24.415 --> 00:06:25.696 It wasn't because I wanted 00:06:25.716 --> 00:06:28.158 to be super smart and, you know, 00:06:28.197 --> 00:06:29.218 stand out from the crowd. 00:06:29.298 --> 00:06:31.800 It was I was on a journey and a path to 00:06:32.788 --> 00:06:34.249 really find out what I need 00:06:34.269 --> 00:06:35.848 to know to get my patients better. 00:06:36.149 --> 00:06:37.810 That if my patient didn't get better, 00:06:38.771 --> 00:06:39.711 it wasn't if they went 00:06:39.750 --> 00:06:42.232 across the street to the next clinic, 00:06:42.593 --> 00:06:44.593 you know, they would get better. 00:06:44.673 --> 00:06:46.153 So I wanted to do everything 00:06:46.254 --> 00:06:48.014 I could to really learn. 00:06:48.055 --> 00:06:50.216 And so that's really what 00:06:50.295 --> 00:06:51.476 started my journey. 00:06:52.076 --> 00:06:54.237 And so as I was going through that journey, 00:06:54.377 --> 00:06:56.038 I learned all of the 00:06:56.057 --> 00:06:57.139 greatest things about 00:06:57.899 --> 00:07:00.839 evidence-based practice and 00:07:01.079 --> 00:07:02.100 what does that look like 00:07:02.259 --> 00:07:03.841 actually in the clinic. 00:07:03.880 --> 00:07:07.101 So really developing that toolkit, 00:07:07.401 --> 00:07:09.682 that teaching someone how 00:07:09.702 --> 00:07:15.384 to fish was very impactful for me. 00:07:15.805 --> 00:07:17.045 But also what I learned as I 00:07:17.064 --> 00:07:18.326 was going through the journey is 00:07:20.315 --> 00:07:24.382 A lot of academia enjoy 00:07:25.124 --> 00:07:30.230 getting into the details of 00:07:32.375 --> 00:07:33.055 the discussion, 00:07:36.776 --> 00:07:40.379 rigorous debate of the 00:07:40.538 --> 00:07:41.879 evidence that's there 00:07:42.279 --> 00:07:44.622 versus the therapist 00:07:44.762 --> 00:07:46.002 Thursday at two thirty 00:07:46.023 --> 00:07:47.103 that's trying to help Miss 00:07:47.163 --> 00:07:49.305 Jones be able to sit 00:07:49.345 --> 00:07:52.648 through Sunday service or 00:07:52.728 --> 00:07:55.730 help Mr. Smith be able to 00:07:57.711 --> 00:07:59.612 stay on his job a little bit longer. 00:08:01.235 --> 00:08:03.399 aren't necessarily arguing 00:08:03.439 --> 00:08:04.300 in those details. 00:08:04.339 --> 00:08:06.083 So some of my passion was, 00:08:06.463 --> 00:08:09.187 how can I take this knowledge that I'm 00:08:10.894 --> 00:08:12.355 and translate it in a way 00:08:12.396 --> 00:08:14.416 that's helpful for my colleagues, 00:08:14.497 --> 00:08:16.077 for students, 00:08:16.398 --> 00:08:18.920 for patients that's very 00:08:19.000 --> 00:08:20.661 real and very helpful. 00:08:21.261 --> 00:08:22.322 And I can see it within 00:08:23.002 --> 00:08:26.204 treatment sessions versus 00:08:26.264 --> 00:08:28.305 it being so abstract, 00:08:28.346 --> 00:08:29.687 which sometimes it can be 00:08:29.726 --> 00:08:31.208 when you go to conferences 00:08:31.408 --> 00:08:33.168 or you're in graduate 00:08:33.188 --> 00:08:34.710 school and those types of things. 00:08:35.509 --> 00:08:36.149 Yeah, no, 00:08:36.610 --> 00:08:38.291 that's an excellent point because 00:08:40.913 --> 00:08:41.812 that's the purpose. 00:08:41.832 --> 00:08:43.455 That should be the driving factor. 00:08:43.595 --> 00:08:44.154 Like you said, 00:08:44.195 --> 00:08:46.356 the alphabet soup is at the 00:08:46.417 --> 00:08:48.077 end of the day, 00:08:48.118 --> 00:08:49.239 the letters are meaningless 00:08:49.278 --> 00:08:50.158 if you can't impact 00:08:50.178 --> 00:08:51.500 patients and outcomes. 00:08:52.480 --> 00:08:53.160 And I love that. 00:08:53.201 --> 00:08:56.143 And I think it's clear to me 00:08:56.182 --> 00:08:58.565 that your work is centered 00:08:58.605 --> 00:09:00.826 around both evidence 00:09:01.667 --> 00:09:02.386 and empathy, 00:09:03.226 --> 00:09:04.388 which brings us to another 00:09:04.587 --> 00:09:05.768 area that I think is 00:09:05.827 --> 00:09:10.129 central to both entry level practice, 00:09:10.168 --> 00:09:12.149 but also advanced clinical practice. 00:09:12.169 --> 00:09:13.909 And so I want to move us 00:09:13.950 --> 00:09:16.150 toward the discussion that 00:09:16.171 --> 00:09:18.250 we're here to kind of dive 00:09:18.291 --> 00:09:19.311 into a little bit more, 00:09:19.350 --> 00:09:20.672 which is that motor learning. 00:09:21.951 --> 00:09:24.952 I think I'm really excited 00:09:24.972 --> 00:09:25.852 about this conversation 00:09:25.873 --> 00:09:26.832 with you because I think a 00:09:26.873 --> 00:09:28.193 lot of clinicians 00:09:29.494 --> 00:09:29.774 you know, 00:09:29.913 --> 00:09:32.075 early clinicians or seasoned clinicians, 00:09:32.695 --> 00:09:34.394 as evidence continues to change, 00:09:34.414 --> 00:09:35.575 we kind of struggle to 00:09:35.615 --> 00:09:38.395 bridge that gap as things 00:09:38.436 --> 00:09:39.775 continue to evolve. 00:09:40.255 --> 00:09:42.096 So, you know, 00:09:42.115 --> 00:09:43.116 a lot of what we talk about 00:09:43.157 --> 00:09:44.677 in OMPT practice is like 00:09:45.356 --> 00:09:46.956 refining movement patterns 00:09:46.996 --> 00:09:49.258 and it's psychomotor based, to your point, 00:09:49.298 --> 00:09:50.697 and optimizing and 00:09:50.738 --> 00:09:53.318 facilitating neuromuscular 00:09:53.359 --> 00:09:54.719 control and things like that. 00:09:55.399 --> 00:09:57.360 how do you see motor 00:09:57.400 --> 00:09:58.942 learning principles kind of 00:09:58.961 --> 00:10:00.504 shaping the way we approach 00:10:00.644 --> 00:10:02.205 not just the hands-on care, 00:10:02.926 --> 00:10:05.168 but how we approach OMPT education? 00:10:05.207 --> 00:10:06.629 So whether we're educating 00:10:06.690 --> 00:10:08.350 OMPT educators themselves, 00:10:08.390 --> 00:10:10.874 or fellows in training, or DPT students, 00:10:11.726 --> 00:10:13.467 um can you just share some 00:10:13.587 --> 00:10:16.409 insights on what successful 00:10:16.470 --> 00:10:17.971 motor learning looks like 00:10:18.071 --> 00:10:20.991 for a student it can be you 00:10:21.011 --> 00:10:22.352 know students or everyone 00:10:22.413 --> 00:10:23.974 you and I are students uh 00:10:24.033 --> 00:10:25.414 dpt students fellows 00:10:25.894 --> 00:10:27.056 educators what does 00:10:27.096 --> 00:10:28.456 successful motor learning 00:10:28.557 --> 00:10:32.519 looks like look like for for us learners 00:10:35.380 --> 00:10:36.881 So yes, so one, 00:10:38.022 --> 00:10:39.322 most of us are familiar 00:10:39.363 --> 00:10:40.803 with the traditional 00:10:42.424 --> 00:10:44.326 theories of motor learning 00:10:44.385 --> 00:10:47.248 and the repetition and the 00:10:47.288 --> 00:10:50.110 time it takes to master a task. 00:10:50.350 --> 00:10:52.491 So versus just getting the 00:10:52.552 --> 00:10:54.352 initial components together. 00:10:54.793 --> 00:10:57.174 And then of course the practice, 00:10:57.575 --> 00:10:59.456 was it the thousand repetitions? 00:11:01.249 --> 00:11:02.629 So it goes from 00:11:02.870 --> 00:11:05.011 unconsciously incompetent 00:11:05.231 --> 00:11:06.994 to consciously incompetent 00:11:07.374 --> 00:11:09.375 to eventually that mastery 00:11:09.515 --> 00:11:11.957 of unconsciously competent. 00:11:12.477 --> 00:11:16.402 And so as a DPT student, 00:11:17.062 --> 00:11:22.706 our main goal is for them to be competent, 00:11:23.106 --> 00:11:25.408 learn the techniques, be safe, 00:11:25.528 --> 00:11:26.350 and have a strong 00:11:26.389 --> 00:11:28.631 foundation upon graduation 00:11:28.652 --> 00:11:29.712 that they can build upon. 00:11:31.697 --> 00:11:33.418 versus a resident. 00:11:33.778 --> 00:11:35.961 Again, now I have that foundation. 00:11:36.240 --> 00:11:37.322 I want to focus in a 00:11:37.381 --> 00:11:39.724 specific area of practice 00:11:39.964 --> 00:11:42.225 so I can refine and become 00:11:43.206 --> 00:11:45.408 a little bit more purposeful, 00:11:45.528 --> 00:11:48.871 intentional with my examination, 00:11:48.912 --> 00:11:50.033 my evaluation. 00:11:50.573 --> 00:11:53.940 and how do I use movement 00:11:53.980 --> 00:11:58.027 diagnoses to direct my care 00:11:59.028 --> 00:12:02.655 versus a fellow or fellow in training 00:12:03.645 --> 00:12:06.268 With that motor control, at that point, 00:12:06.528 --> 00:12:08.389 most of them should have 00:12:09.490 --> 00:12:11.630 that psychomotor skill as a 00:12:11.750 --> 00:12:14.633 focus of that refinement of 00:12:14.712 --> 00:12:15.754 how I want to practice 00:12:16.413 --> 00:12:18.034 really delving into the 00:12:18.095 --> 00:12:19.995 complex and into the gray. 00:12:22.567 --> 00:12:25.568 in order to develop that mastery. 00:12:25.948 --> 00:12:28.711 So with motor control, 00:12:29.692 --> 00:12:31.793 when I presented in twenty twenty three, 00:12:32.173 --> 00:12:35.076 we talked a little bit about the optimal 00:12:35.842 --> 00:12:36.962 motor learning theory, 00:12:37.482 --> 00:12:40.423 which is not replacing 00:12:40.464 --> 00:12:42.403 traditional motor learning theories, 00:12:42.443 --> 00:12:44.524 but just contributing to that. 00:12:44.605 --> 00:12:46.725 In addition to what we know, 00:12:47.065 --> 00:12:48.745 we also need to look at 00:12:49.206 --> 00:12:53.287 psychomotor psychosocial contributors. 00:12:53.767 --> 00:12:58.528 So the influence of positive expectation. 00:12:59.048 --> 00:13:03.793 So I can't speak for you, but for myself, 00:13:04.734 --> 00:13:06.475 when I was going through my training, 00:13:08.658 --> 00:13:09.399 it was, you know, 00:13:09.458 --> 00:13:11.942 in the nineties and the thousands where, 00:13:13.043 --> 00:13:14.724 you know, it was a little bit more strict, 00:13:14.764 --> 00:13:15.485 a little bit more. 00:13:15.826 --> 00:13:16.446 You need to do it. 00:13:16.466 --> 00:13:17.647 You know, this is right. 00:13:18.248 --> 00:13:18.749 This is not. 00:13:19.889 --> 00:13:20.730 And I'm actually someone 00:13:20.750 --> 00:13:21.812 that thrives with that 00:13:21.851 --> 00:13:26.076 because I say I rise to, you know, 00:13:26.155 --> 00:13:27.677 to that level of challenge 00:13:27.736 --> 00:13:28.457 and know that I know. 00:13:28.798 --> 00:13:29.458 However, 00:13:29.759 --> 00:13:31.541 the twenty twenty five student 00:13:33.283 --> 00:13:36.105 needs a little bit more of 00:13:36.365 --> 00:13:40.289 an environment that feels safe. 00:13:41.610 --> 00:13:43.251 And so in the optimal learning therapy, 00:13:43.292 --> 00:13:45.373 having positive expectations, 00:13:46.573 --> 00:13:49.075 having autonomy to be able 00:13:49.115 --> 00:13:50.615 to make choices, 00:13:51.615 --> 00:13:53.317 having external goals and 00:13:53.397 --> 00:13:56.099 expectations for motor learning, 00:13:56.879 --> 00:13:58.000 they have found that that 00:13:58.059 --> 00:13:59.780 increases motor learning as 00:13:59.841 --> 00:14:01.902 well as deeper learning retention. 00:14:02.381 --> 00:14:04.182 So to bring this back to 00:14:04.322 --> 00:14:05.964 learning psychomotor skills 00:14:06.024 --> 00:14:07.965 and orthopedic manual physical therapy, 00:14:09.773 --> 00:14:11.835 Those days of do it my way. 00:14:11.914 --> 00:14:13.216 And that's the only way. 00:14:13.636 --> 00:14:14.398 While, yes, 00:14:14.437 --> 00:14:16.239 you can learn a technique in 00:14:16.298 --> 00:14:18.741 order for you to optimize and master it. 00:14:19.101 --> 00:14:20.844 We do need to address these 00:14:20.884 --> 00:14:22.024 psychosocial skills. 00:14:22.804 --> 00:14:23.885 These high level of 00:14:24.006 --> 00:14:26.869 expectations aren't so high 00:14:26.889 --> 00:14:28.130 that they aren't achievable, 00:14:28.490 --> 00:14:29.892 but they're clear, 00:14:30.211 --> 00:14:32.815 but they're also affirming. 00:14:33.783 --> 00:14:36.105 So you do and you will be 00:14:36.186 --> 00:14:39.328 able to master these things. 00:14:39.428 --> 00:14:40.889 And so the combination of 00:14:41.090 --> 00:14:41.951 using those things, 00:14:41.990 --> 00:14:43.692 whether it's a DPT student, 00:14:43.952 --> 00:14:45.573 whether it's a resident, 00:14:45.815 --> 00:14:47.696 whether it's a fellow in training, 00:14:48.336 --> 00:14:50.558 can be very impactful for 00:14:50.818 --> 00:14:52.561 learning the skills or 00:14:52.640 --> 00:14:54.261 competencies that we want 00:14:54.282 --> 00:14:55.984 them to be able to graduate with. 00:14:56.994 --> 00:14:58.134 Yeah, no, I love that. 00:14:58.154 --> 00:14:59.355 There's so much there, right? 00:15:00.736 --> 00:15:02.798 You talk about purposeful refinement. 00:15:02.940 --> 00:15:03.440 I love that. 00:15:03.480 --> 00:15:05.662 I think that's a wonderful 00:15:06.283 --> 00:15:08.303 definition of OMPT practice 00:15:08.565 --> 00:15:11.506 and understanding that we are, 00:15:12.514 --> 00:15:15.515 educating diverse learners now. 00:15:16.196 --> 00:15:18.057 We've got, you know, second, 00:15:18.096 --> 00:15:19.437 third career individuals 00:15:19.476 --> 00:15:21.177 maybe coming into our profession, 00:15:22.097 --> 00:15:23.418 non-traditional students, 00:15:23.458 --> 00:15:24.219 and then you still have 00:15:24.239 --> 00:15:25.538 your traditional students. 00:15:25.558 --> 00:15:27.059 So like, you know, 00:15:27.480 --> 00:15:29.059 motor learning and teaching 00:15:29.100 --> 00:15:30.660 motor learning has got to 00:15:30.701 --> 00:15:32.160 be adaptable in that realm 00:15:32.181 --> 00:15:34.121 because your learners are also diverse. 00:15:34.902 --> 00:15:36.643 So I love that, preparing students for 00:15:37.582 --> 00:15:37.842 you know, 00:15:37.883 --> 00:15:40.504 the real world diversity of not 00:15:40.524 --> 00:15:43.125 just who's in the room, but of practice, 00:15:43.306 --> 00:15:44.626 I think is really important. 00:15:44.667 --> 00:15:48.048 So thank you for speaking to that. 00:15:48.248 --> 00:15:50.288 I want to I do want to kind 00:15:50.349 --> 00:15:51.490 of go back and call out 00:15:51.549 --> 00:15:52.551 something you said, 00:15:53.530 --> 00:15:54.772 which is really powerful. 00:15:54.892 --> 00:15:56.011 You said address the 00:15:56.052 --> 00:15:59.014 psychosocial to address the psychomotor. 00:16:00.666 --> 00:16:01.226 And I think that's a 00:16:01.287 --> 00:16:03.508 powerful foundation for motor learning. 00:16:04.448 --> 00:16:06.070 And maybe we can even call 00:16:06.129 --> 00:16:08.791 it contemporary motor learning, you know, 00:16:09.432 --> 00:16:11.332 because I agree with you motor learning. 00:16:11.653 --> 00:16:12.134 I, you know, 00:16:12.173 --> 00:16:13.134 I completed fellowship 00:16:13.153 --> 00:16:14.715 training not as long ago. 00:16:14.794 --> 00:16:14.955 Right. 00:16:14.995 --> 00:16:16.316 It was twenty seventeen. 00:16:16.836 --> 00:16:17.976 But even, you know, 00:16:18.037 --> 00:16:19.317 a couple of years later, seven, 00:16:19.378 --> 00:16:20.119 eight years later. 00:16:20.979 --> 00:16:22.200 teaching and learning and 00:16:22.279 --> 00:16:23.861 the science and the art of that, 00:16:23.942 --> 00:16:24.962 I can see it changing, 00:16:25.023 --> 00:16:26.865 especially now that I'm in academia. 00:16:26.945 --> 00:16:28.586 So I have a deep 00:16:28.626 --> 00:16:30.629 appreciation for what you just said there, 00:16:30.729 --> 00:16:31.609 which is you cannot 00:16:31.669 --> 00:16:32.890 separate the psychosocial 00:16:32.931 --> 00:16:33.851 from the psychomotor. 00:16:33.991 --> 00:16:36.815 That is pivotal for what 00:16:36.835 --> 00:16:37.595 we're trying to do. 00:16:38.115 --> 00:16:39.037 And, you know, 00:16:39.057 --> 00:16:40.118 it's just it's clear that 00:16:40.177 --> 00:16:42.059 when we shift how we teach, 00:16:42.539 --> 00:16:43.701 even with our patients, 00:16:43.780 --> 00:16:45.363 we haven't talked about patients yet. 00:16:46.283 --> 00:16:47.384 And patient education, 00:16:47.403 --> 00:16:49.004 that's probably another podcast. 00:16:49.085 --> 00:16:52.226 But we shift how we teach, 00:16:52.466 --> 00:16:54.227 and we shift how students 00:16:54.248 --> 00:16:55.788 show up to learn. 00:16:56.389 --> 00:16:57.490 And cultivating that 00:16:57.529 --> 00:16:58.971 environment is so important. 00:16:59.110 --> 00:17:02.932 I love leaning into your expertise here. 00:17:04.294 --> 00:17:07.015 In this area, I wanted to ask you, 00:17:07.115 --> 00:17:09.856 and I guess this is sort of a shift, 00:17:10.237 --> 00:17:11.538 a parallel shift in what 00:17:11.577 --> 00:17:12.518 we're talking about. 00:17:14.602 --> 00:17:15.442 I want to talk a little bit 00:17:15.461 --> 00:17:16.242 about curriculum. 00:17:16.803 --> 00:17:19.242 So I know that you are in 00:17:19.262 --> 00:17:20.564 this space right now. 00:17:20.743 --> 00:17:22.503 You have led efforts to 00:17:22.604 --> 00:17:24.105 integrate content and 00:17:24.184 --> 00:17:25.944 create themes and threads, you know, 00:17:26.005 --> 00:17:27.365 like we spoke about Dr. 00:17:27.746 --> 00:17:29.626 Sarman's movement impairment systems, 00:17:29.666 --> 00:17:31.126 evidence informed practice, 00:17:32.047 --> 00:17:33.847 professional identity formation. 00:17:35.173 --> 00:17:37.876 What is your approach to 00:17:37.936 --> 00:17:39.278 designing learning 00:17:39.378 --> 00:17:41.461 experiences that stick? 00:17:41.981 --> 00:17:45.807 And this question comes from 00:17:46.067 --> 00:17:47.348 the fact that I think we 00:17:47.409 --> 00:17:49.951 all know that when learning is meaningful, 00:17:50.211 --> 00:17:50.952 it sticks. 00:17:51.693 --> 00:17:53.036 But let's say you have a 00:17:53.076 --> 00:17:54.176 cohort of a hundred 00:17:55.369 --> 00:17:56.109 how do you make learning 00:17:56.150 --> 00:17:57.730 stick for all hundred? 00:17:58.151 --> 00:18:00.351 I'm selfishly asking for myself, right? 00:18:00.391 --> 00:18:02.391 But I want to bridge the gap 00:18:02.411 --> 00:18:05.332 again between like evidence, curriculum, 00:18:05.652 --> 00:18:08.913 didactic, clinical practice and impact. 00:18:09.053 --> 00:18:10.813 I feel like you have this 00:18:10.853 --> 00:18:11.692 broad experience. 00:18:11.712 --> 00:18:12.732 You do have this broad 00:18:12.772 --> 00:18:14.513 experience across the spectrum. 00:18:14.874 --> 00:18:16.433 And I want to know what is 00:18:16.473 --> 00:18:18.054 your approach to designing 00:18:18.094 --> 00:18:19.954 these types of learning experiences? 00:18:20.095 --> 00:18:21.835 So one, 00:18:23.068 --> 00:18:24.710 put it on the table, it is hard. 00:18:26.309 --> 00:18:28.171 So I'm not saying I have the answer, 00:18:28.191 --> 00:18:30.071 but I can share with you 00:18:30.873 --> 00:18:33.693 our thoughts and techniques, as well as, 00:18:33.713 --> 00:18:34.233 like you say, 00:18:34.394 --> 00:18:36.075 what some of the evidence is saying. 00:18:36.535 --> 00:18:38.455 So one of the things, 00:18:38.476 --> 00:18:39.195 since we were talking about 00:18:39.215 --> 00:18:40.396 psychosocial a little bit, 00:18:40.696 --> 00:18:43.298 I do teach that course. 00:18:43.898 --> 00:18:44.499 In the past, 00:18:44.618 --> 00:18:45.940 it's been the very first 00:18:46.000 --> 00:18:47.181 course in the term. 00:18:47.921 --> 00:18:48.401 And I do, 00:18:48.501 --> 00:18:49.862 I have students to develop 00:18:49.961 --> 00:18:51.063 mission statements. 00:18:51.963 --> 00:18:53.384 And so a couple page paper 00:18:53.523 --> 00:18:56.266 on that in regard to what their why is. 00:18:56.546 --> 00:18:58.707 And not just why for PT school, 00:18:58.747 --> 00:19:00.127 but why for your life. 00:19:00.188 --> 00:19:01.148 What are your short-term 00:19:01.189 --> 00:19:02.450 goals and your long-term 00:19:02.490 --> 00:19:06.672 goals for your life? 00:19:06.692 --> 00:19:08.313 Because that is what's going to help 00:19:08.645 --> 00:19:09.965 bring you through as you're 00:19:10.006 --> 00:19:11.186 going through challenges 00:19:11.247 --> 00:19:12.247 and difficulties. 00:19:12.686 --> 00:19:14.247 So when we talk about making 00:19:14.326 --> 00:19:15.407 learning stick, 00:19:17.107 --> 00:19:19.348 having that intrinsic 00:19:19.709 --> 00:19:22.709 motivation is extremely important. 00:19:22.729 --> 00:19:24.970 So they need more than you 00:19:25.009 --> 00:19:26.369 learn this because I told 00:19:26.390 --> 00:19:27.670 you to learn it or just 00:19:27.710 --> 00:19:28.810 take my word for it. 00:19:29.171 --> 00:19:31.530 So how does this apply to 00:19:31.590 --> 00:19:33.051 their personal goals as 00:19:33.092 --> 00:19:34.432 well as professional goals? 00:19:34.711 --> 00:19:36.732 How can they see a real life 00:19:37.053 --> 00:19:38.133 application with that? 00:19:39.301 --> 00:19:39.741 Of course, 00:19:39.781 --> 00:19:42.726 there's repetition and overlay 00:19:42.826 --> 00:19:45.868 and sequencing that of 00:19:45.888 --> 00:19:47.190 course needs to occur. 00:19:47.570 --> 00:19:49.653 So just because they learned 00:19:50.934 --> 00:19:53.317 about a principle in one 00:19:53.356 --> 00:19:54.558 course doesn't mean that 00:19:54.598 --> 00:19:56.381 you don't teach it in other courses. 00:19:56.421 --> 00:19:57.862 So they need to hear it. 00:19:58.782 --> 00:20:00.663 multiple times in different 00:20:01.624 --> 00:20:03.664 perspectives in different 00:20:03.704 --> 00:20:05.786 contexts so you know some 00:20:05.846 --> 00:20:06.987 curriculums are very 00:20:07.047 --> 00:20:08.666 purposeful in integrating 00:20:09.067 --> 00:20:10.847 content so it's not so 00:20:10.989 --> 00:20:13.650 siloed which can be very 00:20:13.730 --> 00:20:15.971 extremely helpful and 00:20:16.030 --> 00:20:17.250 students definitely love 00:20:17.330 --> 00:20:19.132 cases and scenarios and 00:20:19.192 --> 00:20:20.853 authentic so those who have 00:20:20.873 --> 00:20:22.493 the opportunity to be able 00:20:22.534 --> 00:20:24.734 to do simulations 00:20:26.394 --> 00:20:28.695 that can be very helpful for 00:20:28.816 --> 00:20:30.916 helping to make things stick. 00:20:31.718 --> 00:20:34.579 You know that the APTA and 00:20:34.740 --> 00:20:39.082 ACAP and the Education 00:20:39.823 --> 00:20:42.724 Academy for APTA are 00:20:42.765 --> 00:20:45.125 working on competency-based education, 00:20:45.987 --> 00:20:48.929 which allows that continuum 00:20:49.048 --> 00:20:50.650 of learning where people 00:20:50.670 --> 00:20:53.511 can kind of learn at their own pace. 00:20:54.751 --> 00:20:56.593 and more individualized, 00:20:56.792 --> 00:20:58.732 but every student has to 00:20:58.752 --> 00:21:01.173 show competency for every 00:21:02.394 --> 00:21:04.013 task or entrustable 00:21:04.034 --> 00:21:06.454 professional activity. 00:21:07.295 --> 00:21:08.394 And so I do think, 00:21:08.474 --> 00:21:09.734 I think that's challenging, 00:21:10.355 --> 00:21:12.296 but I do think those are 00:21:12.336 --> 00:21:15.116 things that are extremely helpful for 00:21:17.017 --> 00:21:19.459 developing skills for competency, 00:21:20.240 --> 00:21:22.201 in the case of DPT education, 00:21:22.281 --> 00:21:23.962 and then mastery for 00:21:24.743 --> 00:21:27.605 resident and fellowship education. 00:21:27.905 --> 00:21:31.569 So really attaching it to their why. 00:21:32.269 --> 00:21:34.352 Positive expectations. 00:21:34.432 --> 00:21:38.035 So the first day in my spine class, 00:21:38.134 --> 00:21:39.155 I make it very clear, 00:21:39.717 --> 00:21:40.557 I do not care if you're 00:21:40.576 --> 00:21:43.619 going into pediatrics or aquatics, 00:21:44.019 --> 00:21:45.741 or nephrology everyone in 00:21:45.821 --> 00:21:47.443 here will be demonstrating 00:21:47.503 --> 00:21:48.664 thrust and non-thrust 00:21:48.704 --> 00:21:50.366 techniques you will do it 00:21:50.926 --> 00:21:52.868 um but I also believe 00:21:52.909 --> 00:21:54.871 everyone in here has the 00:21:55.271 --> 00:21:56.633 tools to be able to do that 00:21:56.653 --> 00:21:58.015 I'm going to teach you I'm 00:21:58.035 --> 00:21:59.215 going to allow enough 00:21:59.296 --> 00:22:01.038 practice time you will be 00:22:01.097 --> 00:22:02.679 able to do that so while 00:22:02.699 --> 00:22:03.861 the students are like 00:22:05.621 --> 00:22:07.741 you can also see that wheel 00:22:07.842 --> 00:22:10.522 turning in regards to, okay, 00:22:10.563 --> 00:22:11.502 how do I need to align 00:22:11.542 --> 00:22:14.064 myself in order to make it happen? 00:22:14.124 --> 00:22:16.743 So being very clear with our expectations, 00:22:17.545 --> 00:22:19.244 allowing that practice time 00:22:20.765 --> 00:22:23.586 can be very helpful for 00:22:23.945 --> 00:22:26.326 skill mastery and making it stick. 00:22:27.307 --> 00:22:28.407 I love that so much. 00:22:29.528 --> 00:22:31.090 You said you didn't have the answer, 00:22:31.131 --> 00:22:31.892 Dr. Meekins, 00:22:31.951 --> 00:22:35.434 but I think you just gave me an answer, 00:22:35.935 --> 00:22:37.877 which is when you have a 00:22:38.038 --> 00:22:39.839 room of a hundred learners 00:22:40.559 --> 00:22:43.242 and you want to 00:22:44.651 --> 00:22:46.353 Set everyone up to be successful. 00:22:46.432 --> 00:22:47.452 How do you do that with a 00:22:47.492 --> 00:22:48.354 hundred different ways of 00:22:48.413 --> 00:22:50.695 learning is clear expectations. 00:22:50.756 --> 00:22:51.737 This is not different from 00:22:51.777 --> 00:22:52.958 what we see in the clinic. 00:22:53.357 --> 00:22:54.959 It's level setting and saying, 00:22:55.019 --> 00:22:56.740 these are the things that 00:22:56.760 --> 00:23:00.304 you need to be able to do by this point. 00:23:00.784 --> 00:23:01.785 And this is how I'm going to 00:23:01.845 --> 00:23:02.585 get you there. 00:23:02.724 --> 00:23:03.486 And I love that. 00:23:03.546 --> 00:23:03.945 I think 00:23:04.787 --> 00:23:05.988 you know sometimes we reach 00:23:06.028 --> 00:23:06.827 for things that are more 00:23:06.867 --> 00:23:08.470 abstract but at the end of 00:23:08.509 --> 00:23:09.569 the day it's just about 00:23:10.351 --> 00:23:11.290 giving the learner their 00:23:11.310 --> 00:23:13.313 tools and saying this is 00:23:13.353 --> 00:23:14.574 what's expected of you and 00:23:14.594 --> 00:23:15.253 this is how I'm going to 00:23:15.273 --> 00:23:16.055 get you there and just 00:23:16.134 --> 00:23:17.355 setting that expectation I 00:23:17.476 --> 00:23:20.196 love that and you know even 00:23:20.277 --> 00:23:22.318 in you saying that tying it 00:23:22.338 --> 00:23:23.839 back to your why this this 00:23:24.539 --> 00:23:26.521 this comes back so much um 00:23:26.582 --> 00:23:28.262 and I it always makes me a 00:23:28.282 --> 00:23:30.124 little bit maybe sad is the 00:23:30.144 --> 00:23:31.505 word is because as we're 00:23:31.605 --> 00:23:32.945 educating you know semester 00:23:33.026 --> 00:23:34.227 one dpt students 00:23:35.086 --> 00:23:38.310 And we, we hammer on your why, you know, 00:23:38.411 --> 00:23:40.613 remember your, so I'm in admissions. 00:23:40.692 --> 00:23:41.794 I read a lot of like, 00:23:41.894 --> 00:23:43.215 why do you want to be a PT 00:23:43.236 --> 00:23:45.518 statements and reminding 00:23:45.597 --> 00:23:48.761 students about their why they, you know, 00:23:48.781 --> 00:23:49.422 sometimes they don't 00:23:49.461 --> 00:23:50.563 connect that to learning. 00:23:50.643 --> 00:23:51.684 So I love that you're very 00:23:51.724 --> 00:23:52.986 intentional about that. 00:23:53.066 --> 00:23:53.946 And, um, 00:23:57.248 --> 00:23:58.509 I want to say, 00:23:58.689 --> 00:24:00.430 because that was a focus on the student, 00:24:01.029 --> 00:24:05.972 but us as teachers and instructors or CIs, 00:24:06.532 --> 00:24:08.654 we need to be flexible. 00:24:09.055 --> 00:24:11.875 We need to be able to adapt 00:24:12.056 --> 00:24:14.518 to the variety of learners 00:24:14.577 --> 00:24:16.239 or the diversity that's in 00:24:16.278 --> 00:24:18.440 your classroom or in your clinic. 00:24:18.539 --> 00:24:19.980 Everyone does not learn the same. 00:24:20.540 --> 00:24:22.902 And so sometimes that can be hard. 00:24:22.981 --> 00:24:24.102 I learned it this way. 00:24:24.321 --> 00:24:25.602 So you should be able to 00:24:25.662 --> 00:24:26.522 learn it this way. 00:24:26.702 --> 00:24:28.442 Or I'm only going to do 00:24:28.603 --> 00:24:31.183 traditional lectures or, you know. 00:24:32.044 --> 00:24:34.384 So we are doing a disservice as well. 00:24:34.845 --> 00:24:36.685 Instead of we don't want to 00:24:36.705 --> 00:24:37.826 just teach content. 00:24:38.205 --> 00:24:40.528 we want to teach the learner 00:24:40.567 --> 00:24:41.689 that is in front of us. 00:24:41.769 --> 00:24:42.489 And so with that, 00:24:42.528 --> 00:24:44.131 that does put some onus on 00:24:44.391 --> 00:24:47.093 us to be adaptable, to listen, 00:24:47.653 --> 00:24:48.834 and as well as being in 00:24:48.874 --> 00:24:50.615 touch with our why. 00:24:50.816 --> 00:24:52.196 Why are we doing this? 00:24:52.297 --> 00:24:56.019 Why are we in front of these students? 00:24:56.400 --> 00:24:58.501 If it's the purpose is to 00:24:59.603 --> 00:25:01.284 improve the profession and 00:25:01.324 --> 00:25:02.484 to that generation. 00:25:03.666 --> 00:25:06.872 then sometimes reflecting on that, 00:25:06.892 --> 00:25:08.453 like we ask the students to do, 00:25:08.775 --> 00:25:10.356 can make it easier for us 00:25:10.376 --> 00:25:11.900 to pivot and adjust to the 00:25:11.960 --> 00:25:12.881 student that's in front of 00:25:12.961 --> 00:25:13.903 us instead of the student 00:25:13.923 --> 00:25:15.164 that we would like to have. 00:25:15.588 --> 00:25:16.150 Sure. 00:25:16.509 --> 00:25:17.771 I love that so much. 00:25:18.471 --> 00:25:20.694 And you took the words from me. 00:25:20.734 --> 00:25:22.257 I know when we chatted a 00:25:22.297 --> 00:25:25.780 little bit before this session, 00:25:25.861 --> 00:25:29.023 we talked about how it's 00:25:29.125 --> 00:25:30.806 one thing to teach motor 00:25:30.846 --> 00:25:32.788 learning and repetition and 00:25:32.808 --> 00:25:35.912 those things to students, but 00:25:36.732 --> 00:25:38.413 How do we empower educators 00:25:38.453 --> 00:25:41.656 then to do what you're saying? 00:25:41.676 --> 00:25:43.157 You know, pause and reflect. 00:25:43.337 --> 00:25:45.440 Are there moments or 00:25:45.500 --> 00:25:49.082 triggers or times where you would say, 00:25:49.182 --> 00:25:50.624 hey, take a step back, 00:25:50.663 --> 00:25:51.824 think about what you're doing, 00:25:51.864 --> 00:25:52.765 how you're doing it? 00:25:52.825 --> 00:25:53.025 Like, 00:25:53.085 --> 00:25:55.767 what are signs and symptoms for me as 00:25:55.807 --> 00:25:58.128 an educator to step back 00:25:58.189 --> 00:26:00.651 and get out of my way, you know, 00:26:00.711 --> 00:26:02.271 to to teach my students? 00:26:02.311 --> 00:26:03.933 I know some of the things we talked about 00:26:05.554 --> 00:26:07.914 were practical things like 00:26:09.255 --> 00:26:10.476 low stakes assessments for 00:26:10.536 --> 00:26:11.915 students just to gauge 00:26:11.935 --> 00:26:12.875 where they are with the 00:26:12.935 --> 00:26:14.196 content we're delivering. 00:26:15.497 --> 00:26:17.018 Do you have ideas on other 00:26:17.097 --> 00:26:18.958 practical solutions and 00:26:18.998 --> 00:26:22.598 resources for entry-level DPT educators, 00:26:22.638 --> 00:26:23.699 but also at the level of 00:26:23.759 --> 00:26:27.059 the fellow OMPT educators, 00:26:27.641 --> 00:26:28.921 what can we do to be better? 00:26:29.300 --> 00:26:30.403 How do we become more 00:26:30.482 --> 00:26:32.285 reflective educators 00:26:32.345 --> 00:26:33.426 thinking about all of these 00:26:33.487 --> 00:26:34.627 principles and bridging 00:26:34.667 --> 00:26:37.152 that gap between the learner and us, 00:26:37.172 --> 00:26:37.972 the instructor? 00:26:38.252 --> 00:26:40.236 What can you help us, Dr. Meekins? 00:26:43.083 --> 00:26:43.403 Again, 00:26:43.522 --> 00:26:45.044 I'm laughing because if my students 00:26:45.084 --> 00:26:47.105 were watching this, they would be like, 00:26:48.765 --> 00:26:50.026 maybe you should be listening. 00:26:51.605 --> 00:26:53.747 We're all guilty and trying to get better, 00:26:53.807 --> 00:26:54.106 right? 00:26:54.728 --> 00:26:54.988 Right. 00:26:55.028 --> 00:26:56.647 Like I said, it's a journey. 00:26:57.888 --> 00:26:59.209 And as well as once you 00:26:59.229 --> 00:27:00.950 think that you think you've got it, 00:27:01.430 --> 00:27:02.730 then that's a problem 00:27:02.750 --> 00:27:03.951 because you can't learn anything else. 00:27:04.570 --> 00:27:05.751 So with that, 00:27:06.011 --> 00:27:08.392 what I started with is listening. 00:27:09.512 --> 00:27:13.453 So us as educators being 00:27:13.693 --> 00:27:16.193 open to being able to hear that feedback. 00:27:16.233 --> 00:27:17.355 So sometimes we're like, 00:27:18.414 --> 00:27:19.674 especially those that are 00:27:19.796 --> 00:27:21.435 in entry-level education, 00:27:21.455 --> 00:27:22.236 sometimes those course 00:27:22.276 --> 00:27:25.537 evals can be a little spicy, 00:27:25.576 --> 00:27:27.038 but you have to learn how 00:27:27.097 --> 00:27:29.597 to eat the meat and throw away the bones, 00:27:30.679 --> 00:27:31.699 as my mom would say. 00:27:32.897 --> 00:27:34.940 So one being open to feedback. 00:27:36.321 --> 00:27:37.443 Don't wait to the end. 00:27:37.864 --> 00:27:39.385 So give that feedback and 00:27:39.405 --> 00:27:41.548 that response as you are 00:27:41.568 --> 00:27:42.750 going throughout the semester, 00:27:42.931 --> 00:27:44.492 as you are going throughout 00:27:44.532 --> 00:27:45.755 that clinical experience, 00:27:45.894 --> 00:27:47.457 as you are going throughout that. 00:27:48.000 --> 00:27:49.782 period of fellowship training. 00:27:50.022 --> 00:27:52.445 So the minimum you may have set up, 00:27:52.646 --> 00:27:53.307 or let's say in a 00:27:53.347 --> 00:27:55.609 fellowship training for midterm and final, 00:27:55.871 --> 00:27:56.510 but there's nothing 00:27:56.550 --> 00:27:58.053 stopping you from getting 00:27:58.113 --> 00:28:00.256 additional feedback each 00:28:00.316 --> 00:28:03.299 week or as students are learning. 00:28:03.819 --> 00:28:05.280 um during um that time 00:28:05.300 --> 00:28:06.481 because it gives you time 00:28:06.642 --> 00:28:08.282 and room to be able to 00:28:08.343 --> 00:28:10.884 pivot so um I do like to 00:28:10.984 --> 00:28:12.445 use polling software 00:28:12.846 --> 00:28:13.726 because early in my 00:28:13.807 --> 00:28:15.528 education you know students 00:28:15.548 --> 00:28:16.528 wouldn't say anything so 00:28:16.548 --> 00:28:17.769 I'm teaching teaching 00:28:17.808 --> 00:28:18.809 nobody's asking this is 00:28:18.869 --> 00:28:20.010 great and then I would get 00:28:20.030 --> 00:28:21.391 the exam I'm like this is 00:28:21.471 --> 00:28:25.094 not great yeah so now you 00:28:25.114 --> 00:28:27.275 know I know to pause and go 00:28:27.295 --> 00:28:28.375 how do you feel about this 00:28:28.828 --> 00:28:29.009 Really? 00:28:29.028 --> 00:28:29.690 All right. 00:28:29.849 --> 00:28:30.529 I'm going to throw up a 00:28:30.569 --> 00:28:31.371 couple of questions. 00:28:31.590 --> 00:28:32.290 Let's see. 00:28:32.671 --> 00:28:35.573 So I'm forcing them to engage and go, 00:28:35.712 --> 00:28:36.794 okay. 00:28:36.834 --> 00:28:37.173 They don't. 00:28:37.273 --> 00:28:39.075 And usually giving them a 00:28:39.154 --> 00:28:40.615 little space and room, 00:28:40.756 --> 00:28:41.576 as well as we talked a 00:28:41.656 --> 00:28:42.817 little bit earlier about 00:28:42.936 --> 00:28:43.958 that environment. 00:28:44.755 --> 00:28:46.256 for them to ask the question 00:28:46.276 --> 00:28:47.997 without feeling it being punitive. 00:28:48.997 --> 00:28:51.077 Us making sure that the 00:28:51.199 --> 00:28:53.640 other students are 00:28:53.680 --> 00:28:56.780 supporting that learner as they go. 00:28:56.861 --> 00:28:57.801 So then that way those 00:28:57.862 --> 00:28:59.363 robust discussions can have, 00:28:59.383 --> 00:29:00.202 because we don't know 00:29:01.263 --> 00:29:02.644 what's wrong unless we 00:29:04.229 --> 00:29:05.150 have a space where students 00:29:05.170 --> 00:29:06.570 feel free to be able to tell us, 00:29:06.691 --> 00:29:07.912 even if the answer is, oh, 00:29:07.991 --> 00:29:09.192 I really didn't read that, 00:29:09.634 --> 00:29:11.055 or I focused on that wrong. 00:29:11.414 --> 00:29:13.176 So we have to be able to hear it. 00:29:13.196 --> 00:29:14.557 We have to be able to ask 00:29:15.259 --> 00:29:16.279 frequently with that. 00:29:16.339 --> 00:29:19.863 And then we have to be open to change. 00:29:20.163 --> 00:29:21.584 So for myself, 00:29:22.045 --> 00:29:24.727 I had a colleague to help me 00:29:24.747 --> 00:29:25.907 when I first started teaching. 00:29:26.048 --> 00:29:27.148 I'm someone that I get the 00:29:27.189 --> 00:29:28.611 main points during the lecture. 00:29:29.171 --> 00:29:30.711 And then I go home and then 00:29:30.771 --> 00:29:31.752 I read through it. 00:29:31.792 --> 00:29:32.594 I read my book. 00:29:32.634 --> 00:29:34.015 And then if I have other questions, 00:29:34.434 --> 00:29:37.317 I would ask the next class session. 00:29:38.258 --> 00:29:41.400 But my colleague, she would say, no, Meyer, 00:29:41.539 --> 00:29:42.861 I try to learn it as much 00:29:42.901 --> 00:29:45.682 detail as I can while I'm in class. 00:29:46.864 --> 00:29:48.746 I don't have to study as much afterwards. 00:29:48.766 --> 00:29:50.007 And so that was a paradigm 00:29:50.027 --> 00:29:52.989 shift for me because I was teaching. 00:29:53.048 --> 00:29:54.349 I was hitting high points, but 00:29:56.131 --> 00:29:58.451 um I was not going in as 00:29:58.511 --> 00:30:00.653 much detail because I was 00:30:00.692 --> 00:30:02.413 assuming that students were 00:30:02.534 --> 00:30:03.913 learning the way I learned 00:30:05.015 --> 00:30:07.096 once I started um 00:30:07.155 --> 00:30:09.196 recognizing there's various 00:30:09.257 --> 00:30:11.798 ways then I changed the way 00:30:11.837 --> 00:30:13.959 that I was um relaying the 00:30:14.019 --> 00:30:15.199 content and then I would 00:30:15.219 --> 00:30:16.779 check in is this enough do 00:30:16.900 --> 00:30:18.861 you all need more um so 00:30:19.723 --> 00:30:21.945 to get back to your original question, 00:30:22.926 --> 00:30:24.488 how do we help these 00:30:24.548 --> 00:30:26.148 students to be able to 00:30:26.230 --> 00:30:27.550 retain the content? 00:30:28.111 --> 00:30:31.493 It's staying close to the materials, 00:30:31.534 --> 00:30:33.435 staying close to the students, 00:30:33.715 --> 00:30:35.136 regular formative as well 00:30:35.196 --> 00:30:36.617 as summative assessment. 00:30:37.078 --> 00:30:38.700 And then going along with 00:30:38.779 --> 00:30:41.362 this competency-based education trend, 00:30:41.982 --> 00:30:44.305 making sure these assessments are valid. 00:30:44.765 --> 00:30:46.987 So are the assessments I'm 00:30:47.047 --> 00:30:49.209 doing actually reflective 00:30:49.328 --> 00:30:52.692 of their actual performance? 00:30:52.731 --> 00:30:53.653 So that way we have truthful 00:30:53.712 --> 00:30:54.634 information that we can 00:30:54.673 --> 00:30:55.755 make better decisions. 00:30:57.057 --> 00:30:58.298 There's everything you're 00:30:58.338 --> 00:30:59.278 saying is so rich. 00:30:59.358 --> 00:31:00.179 There's so much there. 00:31:00.398 --> 00:31:02.240 And I'm kind of 00:31:02.319 --> 00:31:03.539 internalizing this as I'm 00:31:03.579 --> 00:31:04.779 listening because teaching 00:31:04.819 --> 00:31:06.461 in a hybrid program that 00:31:06.520 --> 00:31:07.661 offers maybe some unique 00:31:07.681 --> 00:31:08.862 challenges when we talk 00:31:08.902 --> 00:31:10.761 about psychomotor skills, 00:31:11.001 --> 00:31:13.363 where we encourage students 00:31:13.383 --> 00:31:15.463 to practice immediately, 00:31:16.824 --> 00:31:18.203 staying close to the material, 00:31:18.244 --> 00:31:18.964 like you said, 00:31:19.444 --> 00:31:20.125 even though we're not 00:31:20.164 --> 00:31:21.525 physically in person until 00:31:21.546 --> 00:31:23.586 at midpoint in the semester 00:31:23.625 --> 00:31:24.605 where they've got a ton of 00:31:24.645 --> 00:31:26.106 information to filter through. 00:31:27.366 --> 00:31:28.727 But I love what you're saying there, 00:31:28.767 --> 00:31:30.748 because if we fall into the 00:31:30.788 --> 00:31:32.928 trap of maybe teaching the way we learn, 00:31:33.368 --> 00:31:34.048 then we're doing a 00:31:34.088 --> 00:31:35.409 disservice to our students. 00:31:35.509 --> 00:31:36.848 And I think that's something that, 00:31:37.548 --> 00:31:38.509 that in itself, 00:31:38.690 --> 00:31:40.410 if you reflect on that alone, 00:31:41.170 --> 00:31:42.671 seems to be the answer to 00:31:42.730 --> 00:31:44.090 all our problems, right? 00:31:44.151 --> 00:31:46.872 Like staying close, getting the feedback. 00:31:46.932 --> 00:31:47.451 And this is, 00:31:48.192 --> 00:31:49.751 I love the parallel between 00:31:49.971 --> 00:31:52.792 the educator side and the clinical side. 00:31:53.613 --> 00:31:54.532 because a lot of what you 00:31:54.573 --> 00:31:56.473 say is in parallel with 00:31:56.493 --> 00:31:57.513 what we say to students 00:31:57.594 --> 00:31:58.534 when they're in the clinic 00:31:58.574 --> 00:31:59.413 or fellows when they're 00:31:59.453 --> 00:32:00.914 training which is you've 00:32:00.934 --> 00:32:02.454 got to be adaptable you use 00:32:02.494 --> 00:32:03.535 that word a couple minutes 00:32:03.575 --> 00:32:04.736 ago you have to pivot in 00:32:04.756 --> 00:32:06.316 the moment and this is 00:32:06.536 --> 00:32:07.336 sometimes I think the 00:32:07.395 --> 00:32:08.696 educator does think this 00:32:08.737 --> 00:32:10.436 doesn't necessarily apply 00:32:10.477 --> 00:32:11.916 to them um because I've 00:32:11.936 --> 00:32:12.897 already course planned 00:32:12.917 --> 00:32:14.018 through the semester this 00:32:14.057 --> 00:32:15.018 is what I'm doing this is 00:32:15.038 --> 00:32:16.137 how I'm doing it you got to 00:32:16.178 --> 00:32:17.778 pivot in the moment um 00:32:18.558 --> 00:32:20.059 and failing safely. 00:32:20.140 --> 00:32:21.019 You have to create an 00:32:21.059 --> 00:32:22.361 environment where students 00:32:22.401 --> 00:32:25.122 and fellows can fail safely. 00:32:25.682 --> 00:32:26.682 I think that's a lot of what 00:32:26.701 --> 00:32:28.242 you seem to have just spoken about. 00:32:28.423 --> 00:32:31.544 And that's a place where I love. 00:32:32.825 --> 00:32:34.285 It connects the psychomotor 00:32:34.505 --> 00:32:35.746 and the psychosocial so 00:32:35.786 --> 00:32:36.605 beautifully and so 00:32:36.645 --> 00:32:39.768 seamlessly that I love that 00:32:39.788 --> 00:32:41.528 we've come full circle on 00:32:42.388 --> 00:32:43.469 separating all of these 00:32:43.509 --> 00:32:44.690 components and trying to 00:32:44.750 --> 00:32:45.650 bring them together. 00:32:45.730 --> 00:32:46.970 So thank you so much for that. 00:32:48.451 --> 00:32:50.592 I know that you, like I said, 00:32:50.652 --> 00:32:51.692 wear many hats. 00:32:51.791 --> 00:32:55.113 And just before we close, I was wondering, 00:32:56.034 --> 00:32:56.894 in addition to all the 00:32:56.913 --> 00:32:58.614 insights and your passion 00:32:58.673 --> 00:32:59.555 and your interests and your 00:32:59.595 --> 00:33:01.434 work that you've shared with us, 00:33:03.596 --> 00:33:04.977 what are you excited about 00:33:05.096 --> 00:33:06.817 next what's what's next for 00:33:06.837 --> 00:33:07.919 you what are you up to 00:33:07.939 --> 00:33:10.500 before we wrap up any uh 00:33:10.660 --> 00:33:11.941 projects you're excited 00:33:11.980 --> 00:33:13.281 about working on or any 00:33:13.342 --> 00:33:14.561 upcoming interests I guess 00:33:15.103 --> 00:33:17.023 life interests even outside 00:33:17.104 --> 00:33:18.765 of ompt here with us well 00:33:18.865 --> 00:33:21.425 that's a little busy right 00:33:21.486 --> 00:33:23.446 now so like I mentioned I 00:33:23.667 --> 00:33:25.909 um am part of a new 00:33:26.958 --> 00:33:28.218 a developing doctor of 00:33:28.238 --> 00:33:29.578 physical therapy program at 00:33:29.598 --> 00:33:30.959 the University of Memphis. 00:33:31.019 --> 00:33:35.799 So I am the director of curriculum. 00:33:36.279 --> 00:33:38.359 So currently working on coordinates. 00:33:38.380 --> 00:33:42.101 So really exciting about, you know, 00:33:42.221 --> 00:33:42.441 like I said, 00:33:42.520 --> 00:33:44.401 I've been blessed to have so 00:33:44.441 --> 00:33:46.021 many opportunities along my 00:33:46.082 --> 00:33:47.642 career and that knowledge. 00:33:47.781 --> 00:33:49.541 And so to be able to take 00:33:49.561 --> 00:33:51.103 that and be able to share 00:33:51.143 --> 00:33:53.143 that with students 00:33:53.883 --> 00:33:56.664 as well as the community is 00:33:56.684 --> 00:33:58.207 something I'm very passionate about. 00:33:58.267 --> 00:34:00.567 And so with that, you know, 00:34:00.868 --> 00:34:02.430 threading those things such 00:34:02.470 --> 00:34:03.590 as evidence informed 00:34:03.730 --> 00:34:06.232 practice throughout the curriculum, 00:34:06.413 --> 00:34:07.913 professional formation. 00:34:07.973 --> 00:34:09.235 So you may if you've been 00:34:09.735 --> 00:34:10.996 attending the conferences 00:34:11.916 --> 00:34:12.177 You know, 00:34:12.577 --> 00:34:15.297 really helping to be intentional 00:34:15.338 --> 00:34:17.719 with building the student 00:34:17.778 --> 00:34:19.539 in regards to not just 00:34:19.778 --> 00:34:22.880 ethics and regulatory issues, 00:34:22.940 --> 00:34:25.161 but leadership and what 00:34:25.181 --> 00:34:26.701 does their professional life look like? 00:34:26.740 --> 00:34:27.101 Again, 00:34:27.721 --> 00:34:30.202 where do we or they visualize 00:34:30.242 --> 00:34:32.001 themselves as they graduate? 00:34:32.882 --> 00:34:33.262 For us, 00:34:33.322 --> 00:34:37.704 we do have a thread of rural health care. 00:34:38.445 --> 00:34:39.947 because our program will be 00:34:40.027 --> 00:34:43.186 actually on a satellite campus in Jackson, 00:34:43.226 --> 00:34:43.748 Tennessee. 00:34:44.228 --> 00:34:45.568 So with that, 00:34:45.668 --> 00:34:47.588 we have a strong emphasis on 00:34:48.588 --> 00:34:50.250 that autonomy and being 00:34:50.429 --> 00:34:53.250 able to be that person in 00:34:53.289 --> 00:34:55.371 the community to be a 00:34:55.431 --> 00:34:56.931 support going for that. 00:34:56.971 --> 00:34:58.371 And then, of course, movement. 00:34:58.411 --> 00:35:00.231 So I can't go past that. 00:35:00.271 --> 00:35:02.612 So my training with MTI, 00:35:02.652 --> 00:35:05.353 my training at Wash U School of Medicine, 00:35:05.974 --> 00:35:07.014 uh in movement system 00:35:07.094 --> 00:35:08.454 impairments and so really 00:35:08.614 --> 00:35:12.016 using movement to guide our 00:35:12.056 --> 00:35:13.117 interventions our 00:35:13.137 --> 00:35:15.577 assessments our plans and 00:35:15.697 --> 00:35:17.117 making that the forefront 00:35:17.157 --> 00:35:19.059 versus a focus just on 00:35:19.639 --> 00:35:22.599 using tools is very 00:35:22.659 --> 00:35:23.440 important and then of 00:35:23.481 --> 00:35:25.001 course education and 00:35:25.101 --> 00:35:27.681 learning so you know at the 00:35:27.742 --> 00:35:28.603 heart of it as physical 00:35:28.643 --> 00:35:29.802 therapists we teach every 00:35:29.822 --> 00:35:32.423 day um and so really giving 00:35:32.463 --> 00:35:35.164 them the skill set to do that um and 00:35:36.643 --> 00:35:38.784 um sorry learning uh for 00:35:39.266 --> 00:35:40.445 their professional life but 00:35:40.525 --> 00:35:43.288 also helping patients in 00:35:43.367 --> 00:35:44.389 how they're learning those 00:35:44.449 --> 00:35:45.989 techniques as well so very 00:35:46.030 --> 00:35:47.769 excited about that I've 00:35:47.789 --> 00:35:49.851 been fortunate I'm a co um 00:35:49.871 --> 00:35:51.291 I guess it's 00:35:51.331 --> 00:35:54.054 co-investigator on a uh one 00:35:54.074 --> 00:35:55.155 point six million dollar 00:35:55.175 --> 00:35:57.356 grant that we just received in april 00:35:58.396 --> 00:36:00.155 where we are developing 00:36:00.597 --> 00:36:03.097 simulation and physical 00:36:03.117 --> 00:36:05.637 therapy education courses 00:36:06.217 --> 00:36:08.478 in area high schools. 00:36:08.557 --> 00:36:09.938 So they graduate with their 00:36:10.277 --> 00:36:13.639 PT technician certificate 00:36:13.719 --> 00:36:16.018 that they can use in area clinics, 00:36:16.079 --> 00:36:18.119 which in turn can help them 00:36:18.139 --> 00:36:21.239 get hours for physical 00:36:21.260 --> 00:36:22.300 therapy if they should 00:36:22.340 --> 00:36:24.440 choose to do that as a career. 00:36:26.382 --> 00:36:27.606 So that's exciting. 00:36:27.626 --> 00:36:28.007 And... 00:36:32.972 --> 00:36:34.293 I think that's pretty, oh, 00:36:34.452 --> 00:36:36.034 I plan next month to, 00:36:36.434 --> 00:36:37.896 one of my bucket lists were 00:36:37.936 --> 00:36:39.956 to visit the Redwood Forest. 00:36:40.117 --> 00:36:42.077 When I was a child, I wanted to do that. 00:36:42.117 --> 00:36:44.119 So I plan on doing that in 00:36:44.139 --> 00:36:45.141 the next couple of months. 00:36:45.161 --> 00:36:46.340 So that's exciting. 00:36:46.360 --> 00:36:47.101 That is exciting. 00:36:47.121 --> 00:36:48.282 You'll have to share photos 00:36:49.083 --> 00:36:51.045 once you come back from your adventure. 00:36:52.105 --> 00:36:52.686 Dr. Meekins, 00:36:52.726 --> 00:36:54.507 thank you so much for sharing 00:36:54.567 --> 00:36:56.849 your insights with us today 00:36:56.889 --> 00:36:59.411 and your passions along this work. 00:37:00.351 --> 00:37:02.092 I think it is a really 00:37:02.132 --> 00:37:03.152 powerful reminder that 00:37:03.192 --> 00:37:04.213 learning is not just about 00:37:04.273 --> 00:37:06.393 doing and repeating um it's 00:37:06.434 --> 00:37:07.835 truly about like feeling 00:37:07.875 --> 00:37:09.275 and evolving and thinking 00:37:09.315 --> 00:37:11.436 and growing um and also 00:37:11.516 --> 00:37:13.876 adapting and stretching no 00:37:14.157 --> 00:37:15.557 no pun no cheesy pun 00:37:15.597 --> 00:37:16.617 intended but kind of 00:37:16.637 --> 00:37:18.059 stretching ourselves to 00:37:18.518 --> 00:37:19.719 maybe spaces where we're a 00:37:19.760 --> 00:37:21.721 little bit um uncomfortable 00:37:21.820 --> 00:37:24.081 as educators and lifelong learners so 00:37:25.402 --> 00:37:26.222 To the listeners, 00:37:26.262 --> 00:37:27.282 if you're inspired to kind 00:37:27.322 --> 00:37:28.163 of rethink how you're 00:37:28.202 --> 00:37:29.563 practicing and teaching, 00:37:30.422 --> 00:37:32.463 this conversation is a call 00:37:32.483 --> 00:37:34.643 to action to look into some 00:37:34.664 --> 00:37:36.505 of the tools that exist in 00:37:36.545 --> 00:37:38.025 this space and dig into Dr. 00:37:38.065 --> 00:37:39.005 Meekins' work. 00:37:39.885 --> 00:37:41.686 But until next time, keep learning, 00:37:41.726 --> 00:37:42.505 keep growing, 00:37:42.545 --> 00:37:44.186 keep your hands on and your 00:37:44.266 --> 00:37:45.385 minds engaged. 00:37:45.847 --> 00:37:47.027 Thanks again, Dr. Meekins. 00:37:47.047 --> 00:37:47.766 It was a pleasure.