1 00:00:01,000 --> 00:00:06,006 ♪ Opening theme music ♪ 2 00:00:12,879 --> 00:00:16,649 [Diane] Hello, and welcome to this episode of ArtsAbly in Conversation. 3 00:00:16,950 --> 00:00:18,952 My name is Diane Kolin. 4 00:00:19,219 --> 00:00:23,857 This series presents artists. academics and project leaders 5 00:00:23,857 --> 00:00:26,359 who dedicate their time and energy 6 00:00:26,359 --> 00:00:30,597 to a better accessibility for people with disabilities in the arts. 7 00:00:30,597 --> 00:00:36,202 You can find more of these conversations on our website, artsably.com, 8 00:00:36,202 --> 00:00:40,907 which is spelled A-R-T-S-A-B-L-Y dot com. 9 00:00:42,342 --> 00:00:47,347 ♪ Theme music ♪ 10 00:00:55,155 --> 00:00:58,958 Today, ArtsAbly is in conversation with Robyn Rennie, 11 00:00:58,958 --> 00:01:02,328 a visual artist living in New Brunswick in Canada. 12 00:01:02,729 --> 00:01:07,000 You can find the resources mentioned by Robyn Rennie during this episode 13 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:10,370 on ArtsAbly's website, in the blog section. 14 00:01:14,908 --> 00:01:19,579 [Robyn] I'm Robyn Rennie, and on my lap is my miniature dachshund Murray. 15 00:01:19,579 --> 00:01:24,484 I'm an older female with graying hair. 16 00:01:24,484 --> 00:01:29,055 I wear glasses, and I'm dressed in black that has paint on it 17 00:01:29,055 --> 00:01:30,757 because I'm an artist. 18 00:01:31,257 --> 00:01:33,193 I am a fine artist because I paint. 19 00:01:33,193 --> 00:01:35,829 I used to be a very high realist artist. 20 00:01:35,829 --> 00:01:40,633 I've painted my whole life, and my paintings had a lot of detail. 21 00:01:40,633 --> 00:01:44,871 They had texture, but the texture was created with paint itself. 22 00:01:44,871 --> 00:01:47,607 And after my vision loss, I couldn't draw anymore. 23 00:01:47,607 --> 00:01:49,342 I don't have that depth of field. 24 00:01:49,342 --> 00:01:53,313 So for a while, I didn't do anything, and - 25 00:01:53,313 --> 00:01:56,082 But that creative impulse just doesn't go away. 26 00:01:56,082 --> 00:01:58,985 So I started to experiment with textures 27 00:01:58,985 --> 00:02:01,955 and more of an abstract approach, 28 00:02:01,955 --> 00:02:03,990 which was very difficult for me. 29 00:02:03,990 --> 00:02:08,294 But it was something that I finally had to work with and experiment with, 30 00:02:08,294 --> 00:02:09,529 and it was hard. 31 00:02:09,529 --> 00:02:12,198 And I had a lot of failures, 32 00:02:12,198 --> 00:02:15,435 but it's been quite a few years now, and I feel very... 33 00:02:15,468 --> 00:02:16,669 I'm very happy with this art. 34 00:02:16,669 --> 00:02:19,139 I feel like it's better than my realism. 35 00:02:20,206 --> 00:02:24,277 I was 44, and I was a busy working mother. 36 00:02:24,277 --> 00:02:27,814 I had three kids, and I was teaching. 37 00:02:27,814 --> 00:02:30,283 pretty much overnight, I got this headache, 38 00:02:30,283 --> 00:02:32,952 and within six days, I was completely blind. 39 00:02:32,952 --> 00:02:35,355 My optic nerve had completely shut down. 40 00:02:35,355 --> 00:02:37,590 It had swollen up, and it took many months 41 00:02:37,590 --> 00:02:41,427 for the vision to come back to what it did. 42 00:02:41,794 --> 00:02:46,566 And so overnight, I couldn't teach in a classroom, I couldn't drive anymore. 43 00:02:46,833 --> 00:02:51,371 And more importantly, I couldn't paint the way that I wanted to. 44 00:02:51,404 --> 00:02:52,906 And so it was devastating. 45 00:02:53,973 --> 00:02:57,310 This painting is one of the first paintings that I made 46 00:02:57,310 --> 00:02:58,611 after my vision loss. 47 00:02:58,611 --> 00:03:03,049 I wanted to show my doctor how I could see because it was extremely difficult. 48 00:03:03,049 --> 00:03:05,885 The background is black, and within the painting, within 49 00:03:05,919 --> 00:03:08,721 the square painting is a square window. 50 00:03:08,721 --> 00:03:14,894 And the window is light blue and silver and highly textured. 51 00:03:14,894 --> 00:03:18,565 And then all around the edges of the window are purple, 52 00:03:18,565 --> 00:03:24,037 interference purple and interference blue, because the light breaks apart 53 00:03:24,037 --> 00:03:27,407 and it smudges into the dark background. 54 00:03:27,874 --> 00:03:31,044 This is really how I see when I look out into a bright space. 55 00:03:31,044 --> 00:03:32,412 The edges are blurred. 56 00:03:32,412 --> 00:03:35,148 I always describe it as it blows apart. 57 00:03:35,148 --> 00:03:37,183 Like, edges blow apart to me. 58 00:03:37,183 --> 00:03:39,052 I don't get anything nice and distinct. 59 00:03:39,419 --> 00:03:42,355 [Diane] Welcome to this new episode of ArtsAbly in Conversation. 60 00:03:42,722 --> 00:03:49,195 Today, I am with Robyn Rennie, who is a visual artist living in New Brunswick, in Canada. 61 00:03:49,195 --> 00:03:50,863 Welcome, Robyn! 62 00:03:50,863 --> 00:03:53,132 [Robyn] Thank you, thank you for inviting me. 63 00:03:53,132 --> 00:03:58,271 [Diane] Thank you for taking the time to talk about your work. 64 00:03:58,271 --> 00:04:05,245 So I always ask my guests to give a little bit of context about who you are. 65 00:04:05,245 --> 00:04:07,814 What is your background, your story? 66 00:04:07,814 --> 00:04:12,352 So, how did you start… you're a painter, right? 67 00:04:12,352 --> 00:04:17,557 [Robyn] Yes. Well, yeah, I'm a visual artist with a visual impairment, 68 00:04:17,557 --> 00:04:20,927 and, who is currently creating accessible art. 69 00:04:20,927 --> 00:04:22,929 I always painted, 70 00:04:22,929 --> 00:04:29,869 and I had a modicum of success in my 20s. I was a high realist painter. 71 00:04:29,869 --> 00:04:37,644 And back in the days of the wildlife Robert Bateman kind of painting, and I painted a lot of birds. 72 00:04:37,644 --> 00:04:42,015 And then I went back to school, back to university. I wanted to become 73 00:04:42,015 --> 00:04:47,787 an elementary teacher. I was already teaching art in the schools, but I wanted to get my teaching degree. 74 00:04:47,787 --> 00:04:52,358 And when I was 45, I got sick. 75 00:04:52,358 --> 00:04:55,995 Overnight, I had this really bad headache, 76 00:04:55,995 --> 00:04:58,798 and within 6 days, I was completely blind. 77 00:04:58,798 --> 00:05:03,603 And I was very, very fortunate to get some excellent medical advice and some experimental treatment, 78 00:05:03,603 --> 00:05:06,506 and they were able to save some of my vision, 79 00:05:06,506 --> 00:05:11,544 but I was left legally blind as a result of this illness. 80 00:05:11,544 --> 00:05:17,717 So, overnight, I couldn't teach in a classroom, I couldn't drive a car, I had to… I couldn't paint. 81 00:05:17,717 --> 00:05:24,090 Because my depth of field is, yeah, my depth of field is missing, and 82 00:05:24,090 --> 00:05:29,295 two-dimensional images are very difficult for me to decipher. It takes me a long time. 83 00:05:29,295 --> 00:05:32,598 If I'm looking at a magazine, I can't figure out what I'm looking at. 84 00:05:32,598 --> 00:05:35,101 So, I had to 85 00:05:35,101 --> 00:05:38,571 reimagine how I was going to paint. I didn't paint for a long time, but that, 86 00:05:38,571 --> 00:05:43,409 that creative impulse just doesn't go away, and so I started to, 87 00:05:43,409 --> 00:05:46,713 to paint again. I couldn't do the realism that I did before, 88 00:05:46,713 --> 00:05:49,615 so I started to, you know, open up, and 89 00:05:49,615 --> 00:05:51,617 my work was a little more abstract. 90 00:05:51,751 --> 00:05:57,757 And I took work to a gallery, and it was completely rejected. 91 00:05:57,790 --> 00:06:01,360 So I was crushed, and I didn't do anything for about 5 years. 92 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:04,797 But I… again, I couldn't help it. I had to, 93 00:06:04,797 --> 00:06:09,135 to revisit this, so I reimagined and I reinvented how I, 94 00:06:09,135 --> 00:06:12,705 how I wanted to convey, you know, how I… 95 00:06:12,705 --> 00:06:15,208 basically, how I convey how I see. 96 00:06:15,208 --> 00:06:19,846 Because people were asking me all the time, well, you know, how do you see, exactly? how do you see? 97 00:06:19,846 --> 00:06:23,182 And this first thing I've got, this was 98 00:06:23,182 --> 00:06:26,919 the first thing I painted was... This is a painting 99 00:06:26,919 --> 00:06:30,656 of the hospital window in the room that I was in. 100 00:06:30,656 --> 00:06:36,696 So, this is me in my room, in the black, but I'm looking, or, like, in the dark, but I'm looking at the bright, bright window, 101 00:06:36,696 --> 00:06:40,066 and you can see the outline of the, 102 00:06:40,066 --> 00:06:43,035 of the window frame, and the light breaks apart. 103 00:06:43,035 --> 00:06:48,107 That's how I describe it, it just explodes, and it's all… this is very visceral, it's very 104 00:06:48,107 --> 00:06:51,878 tactile, and… because that's… things are moving for me, 105 00:06:51,878 --> 00:06:56,182 it's hard to… to convey something moving when it's 106 00:06:56,182 --> 00:07:00,820 static, but that's sort of what I was trying to do. So I started to use 107 00:07:00,820 --> 00:07:05,758 iridescent and metallic and interference paints, 108 00:07:05,758 --> 00:07:08,828 because they change when you look at things from a different point of view. 109 00:07:08,995 --> 00:07:12,765 And that's how I see, you know, I can be looking right at something and not see it, 110 00:07:12,765 --> 00:07:15,001 but I turn my head just a little bit, and oh, there it is. 111 00:07:15,501 --> 00:07:20,706 So, I'm just trying to impart to the viewer, if they moved, you know, from one section to another, 112 00:07:20,706 --> 00:07:23,109 or look at the painting, they're going to see, 113 00:07:23,109 --> 00:07:25,511 they're going to get a different point of view, a different perspective. 114 00:07:25,511 --> 00:07:29,515 So that was the first thing that I was trying to do, and then I was trying to really 115 00:07:29,515 --> 00:07:32,385 use texture and… 116 00:07:32,652 --> 00:07:37,156 and these various mediums to create this visceral experience. 117 00:07:37,156 --> 00:07:39,892 And I'll give you an example of what I mean by that. 118 00:07:39,892 --> 00:07:44,664 I have a painting right now that's about to go on display out in Alberta. 119 00:07:44,664 --> 00:07:48,100 And it's called Searching for Cypress Hills 3. 120 00:07:48,468 --> 00:07:51,337 It has a lot of, um, varied… 121 00:07:51,337 --> 00:07:53,339 Intense color. 122 00:07:53,339 --> 00:07:56,209 And the clouds have this broken-up plastic, 123 00:07:56,209 --> 00:08:00,246 it's called PEEK plastic, it's a product that Triarc in Canada makes. 124 00:08:00,246 --> 00:08:05,084 And it's basically ground-up containers, and then they put it in a medium, 125 00:08:05,084 --> 00:08:08,788 and you can use that on your work, and it's very sharp, and it's very 126 00:08:08,788 --> 00:08:13,526 harsh. And what I was trying to impart in this painting was that 127 00:08:13,526 --> 00:08:15,761 I, you know, I was looking for something 128 00:08:15,761 --> 00:08:21,033 that I could only see in my mind's eye. I was looking for a battle site, and, 129 00:08:21,033 --> 00:08:26,472 of Cypress Hills, where a lot of innocent Indigenous peoples were slaughtered. 130 00:08:26,472 --> 00:08:31,511 And so we went looking for this place, because I really needed to see it, you know? 131 00:08:31,911 --> 00:08:36,349 And when we got out of the car, we never did find it, and when we got out of the car, it was so hot. 132 00:08:36,349 --> 00:08:41,921 And so the intense color and the sharp mediums that I was using was trying to, 133 00:08:41,921 --> 00:08:47,260 to impart the violence, like, the violence of the history of what I was looking for, number one, 134 00:08:47,260 --> 00:08:51,631 and the violence that I felt with this heat, like, I just felt assaulted 135 00:08:51,631 --> 00:08:55,601 by the heat. I don't like the heat. And it was really, really hot. And so, 136 00:08:55,601 --> 00:09:01,007 that's where I'm using these various mediums to, you know, to convey, 137 00:09:01,007 --> 00:09:03,142 like, my feelings, you know, and what 138 00:09:03,142 --> 00:09:07,313 is happening to me when I am imagining and 139 00:09:07,313 --> 00:09:09,382 creating a painting. 140 00:09:09,882 --> 00:09:15,321 So, so I started to do that, and it actually went really well, and to be perfectly honest, 141 00:09:15,688 --> 00:09:18,457 my artwork now is much more satisfying, 142 00:09:18,457 --> 00:09:23,162 I feel that I wouldn't trade my vision for anything, but I… 143 00:09:23,162 --> 00:09:25,064 My art is better. I mean, 144 00:09:25,431 --> 00:09:29,602 being able to paint realistically is a technical thing. 145 00:09:29,602 --> 00:09:32,438 What I'm doing now is true art. 146 00:09:32,438 --> 00:09:34,607 It's truly from my soul. 147 00:09:34,607 --> 00:09:37,109 And it's made me a better artist. 148 00:09:37,343 --> 00:09:39,946 Believe it or not. So, so then I… 149 00:09:39,946 --> 00:09:41,280 So then part two of my story. 150 00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:43,182 So I had my vision loss, 151 00:09:43,182 --> 00:09:46,953 and I had to, you know, reinvent and reimagine how I was going to do things, 152 00:09:46,953 --> 00:09:48,654 and that started to go really well. 153 00:09:48,654 --> 00:09:52,959 And then I discovered that, you know, I couldn't tell what I was looking at when I went to other shows. 154 00:09:52,959 --> 00:09:56,228 You know, with my daughter, we went to the AGO, and 155 00:09:56,228 --> 00:10:00,266 I couldn't really tell what I was looking at, you know, the two-dimensional thing and 156 00:10:00,266 --> 00:10:02,768 the little tags that they have are not very big, and, 157 00:10:02,935 --> 00:10:08,541 and then my other daughter took me to an immersive Frida Kahlo show, and, 158 00:10:08,541 --> 00:10:12,411 and that should have been wonderful for me, because it's, you know, one of my favorite artists, 159 00:10:12,411 --> 00:10:17,049 and immersive implies, you know, accessibility. 160 00:10:17,383 --> 00:10:21,287 And while the music was fabulous, and the experience was wonderful, 161 00:10:21,287 --> 00:10:23,222 still couldn't tell what I was looking at. 162 00:10:23,222 --> 00:10:30,730 You know, I had to go home and look on, you know, my computer with my assistive devices, and research 163 00:10:30,730 --> 00:10:34,433 the various paintings and that, so that I could understand what I had seen. 164 00:10:34,433 --> 00:10:40,573 So that really made me start to think about accessibility in terms of visual art, and how 165 00:10:40,573 --> 00:10:45,945 visual, or how viewers who, you know, have low vision, or are completely blind, 166 00:10:45,945 --> 00:10:49,215 or neurological, you know, differentials, 167 00:10:49,215 --> 00:10:53,452 are really left out of the art experience, and it's… 168 00:10:53,452 --> 00:10:56,022 and they want to have that experience. 169 00:10:56,022 --> 00:11:00,059 So, I've… the first thing I did was I had 170 00:11:00,059 --> 00:11:05,064 a show in Toronto, and I started to make some accessible things, and we… 171 00:11:05,598 --> 00:11:08,334 I made two tactile replicas of my painting. 172 00:11:08,334 --> 00:11:09,702 So I had the painting, 173 00:11:09,702 --> 00:11:13,105 and then a white pecta replica for touch. 174 00:11:13,406 --> 00:11:15,808 And so we wanted to do 175 00:11:15,808 --> 00:11:20,479 an audio description, so that if somebody was there who couldn't see or was completely blind, 176 00:11:20,479 --> 00:11:25,918 well, they were touching, they could listen to the audio description and understand, you know, what they, 177 00:11:26,385 --> 00:11:28,020 what the painting was about. 178 00:11:28,020 --> 00:11:32,058 So my son, who works for the Ministry of Health, he writes code, 179 00:11:32,058 --> 00:11:36,195 he wrote me an app for smartphone called Artsessible. 180 00:11:36,262 --> 00:11:41,967 And it was great, you know, you just pointed your phone at a QR code, 181 00:11:41,967 --> 00:11:44,203 and then it had a computer-generated voice 182 00:11:44,203 --> 00:11:46,205 describing the painting. 183 00:11:46,505 --> 00:11:49,508 But what I discovered was that 184 00:11:49,508 --> 00:11:55,147 most people, a great many people who don't have, you know, who have vision issues, 185 00:11:55,147 --> 00:11:58,184 and are living on disability don't have $1,000 smartphones. 186 00:11:58,584 --> 00:12:02,088 So they… it wasn't accessible, right? And... 187 00:12:02,755 --> 00:12:06,826 And plus, I didn't like the computer-generated part of it, so, 188 00:12:06,826 --> 00:12:09,628 so we took what we knew. This was actually right before COVID, 189 00:12:10,062 --> 00:12:12,665 and I had just secured 190 00:12:12,665 --> 00:12:15,634 a major exhibition for 2024 in Orillia, 191 00:12:15,634 --> 00:12:19,939 at the Orillia Museum of Art and History, which is just called OMAH. 192 00:12:20,072 --> 00:12:24,143 And… 4 years, trust me, it takes 4 years 193 00:12:24,143 --> 00:12:28,047 to put an exhibition of this complexity together. 194 00:12:28,047 --> 00:12:31,016 And so I wrote to the Canada Council for the Arts, 195 00:12:31,016 --> 00:12:34,386 and I told them what I had done, and I had, you know, statistical 196 00:12:34,386 --> 00:12:37,957 information about how many times people had used it, 197 00:12:37,957 --> 00:12:42,027 and, you know, the feedback that I was getting, and I said, you know, this is what I'm doing, 198 00:12:42,027 --> 00:12:45,698 this is what I want to do, and I need your support. 199 00:12:45,698 --> 00:12:48,467 And they were fabulous. They gave me 200 00:12:48,467 --> 00:12:50,436 pretty much everything I asked for. 201 00:12:50,436 --> 00:12:54,774 And so we decided to build units ourself, that, 202 00:12:55,374 --> 00:12:59,578 audio devices that were inexpensive and easy to use. 203 00:12:59,578 --> 00:13:02,114 I mean, there are audio devices out there, 204 00:13:02,114 --> 00:13:04,650 but they're, you know, $2,500. 205 00:13:04,650 --> 00:13:09,755 So, I needed 27 of them, and I certainly couldn't afford that. 206 00:13:10,189 --> 00:13:14,360 So we started to build these. My husband designed and built 207 00:13:14,360 --> 00:13:18,798 these devices, according to my specs, kind of thing, and what I wanted. 208 00:13:18,798 --> 00:13:23,035 and we came up with this product right here. 209 00:13:23,035 --> 00:13:25,571 Super easy to use, somebody comes up to it, 210 00:13:25,571 --> 00:13:30,509 there would be an indicator on the floor if you were completely blind and you use your cane. 211 00:13:30,509 --> 00:13:34,280 And it would… there's instructions that would tell you to push the button, 212 00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:36,549 put on the headset, and you listen to me 213 00:13:36,549 --> 00:13:38,717 describing the painting, 214 00:13:38,717 --> 00:13:41,086 and the tactile piece would be next to it, so, 215 00:13:41,086 --> 00:13:43,556 and they would know all this, there is, you know, 216 00:13:43,556 --> 00:13:49,562 detailed instructions, audio instructions as well as braille. 217 00:13:49,962 --> 00:13:53,098 And then they could explore the painting beside it 218 00:13:53,098 --> 00:13:54,934 while listening to me describe it. 219 00:13:54,934 --> 00:13:58,304 And that worked out really, really well. 220 00:13:58,304 --> 00:14:00,072 The… 221 00:14:00,673 --> 00:14:04,176 the response was so favorable 222 00:14:04,176 --> 00:14:08,180 and we were really, really happy. And again, we had 223 00:14:08,180 --> 00:14:10,082 you know, all the statistics. We were able to tell 224 00:14:10,082 --> 00:14:14,587 how many times it was clicked, and how many people used it, and so… 225 00:14:15,321 --> 00:14:17,690 OMAH then ended up 226 00:14:18,357 --> 00:14:19,758 keeping, 227 00:14:19,758 --> 00:14:22,261 yeah, they kept several of the units, 228 00:14:22,261 --> 00:14:23,362 and then... 229 00:14:24,263 --> 00:14:27,766 So I have another show coming up in another 3 years, 230 00:14:27,766 --> 00:14:29,435 now that I'm down in New Brunswick. 231 00:14:29,435 --> 00:14:33,005 This one is at the Saint John Arts Centre, St. JAC. 232 00:14:33,005 --> 00:14:35,808 And that's a very big, major, 233 00:14:35,808 --> 00:14:37,943 solo exhibition. I'm very excited about it. 234 00:14:37,943 --> 00:14:42,181 Again, I'm glad I have 3 years, because it will take me a lot of time, because I have to, 235 00:14:42,181 --> 00:14:45,918 you know, create the paintings, create the tactile replicas, 236 00:14:46,318 --> 00:14:49,288 do all the brailling, do all the, you know, the large print, 237 00:14:49,288 --> 00:14:51,390 everything, all the documentation. 238 00:14:51,390 --> 00:14:52,625 And a visual description. 239 00:14:52,625 --> 00:14:54,693 And you know what? That is harder than you'd think. 240 00:14:54,693 --> 00:15:02,534 And now that I'm doing my own alt text on my website, my son used to do that for me, but we're doing it now. 241 00:15:02,735 --> 00:15:05,971 And it's not as easy as you'd think, because of course I'm very verbose, 242 00:15:05,971 --> 00:15:08,040 and I want to tell all kinds of things, and 243 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:12,311 I have to make sure I keep things succinct, you know, and concise. 244 00:15:12,311 --> 00:15:13,279 But… 245 00:15:13,345 --> 00:15:19,485 But, yeah, so in the meantime, I'm getting the word out about these units, because I want, 246 00:15:19,752 --> 00:15:22,154 I want museums and galleries 247 00:15:22,154 --> 00:15:23,722 to have this technology. 248 00:15:23,722 --> 00:15:28,527 [Diane] I don't want to interrupt you, but I'm gonna just describe quickly what I see right now. 249 00:15:28,527 --> 00:15:30,429 [Robyn] Okay. [Diane] I see that your... 250 00:15:30,429 --> 00:15:32,765 you have a painting that is just behind you. 251 00:15:32,765 --> 00:15:33,966 [Robyn] Yes. [Diane] Which you might, 252 00:15:33,966 --> 00:15:36,368 you might want to describe yourself, but what I see, 253 00:15:36,368 --> 00:15:39,438 the famous units you are talking about 254 00:15:39,438 --> 00:15:44,443 is a white small block 255 00:15:44,443 --> 00:15:47,947 with a green button that says START 256 00:15:48,180 --> 00:15:54,687 and headphones. So people would just explore tactilely what is on the wall, 257 00:15:54,687 --> 00:15:56,989 find this button, press start, 258 00:15:56,989 --> 00:16:00,993 put the headphones and press start, and then they would hear you describing it, right? 259 00:16:00,993 --> 00:16:02,561 [Robyn] Me describing it, yes. [Diane] Okay. 260 00:16:02,561 --> 00:16:04,596 [Robyn] And usually I give some insight as well. 261 00:16:04,596 --> 00:16:06,699 And yeah, so this indicator on the floor, 262 00:16:06,699 --> 00:16:10,169 they would find if they were completely blind, you know, with their cane, 263 00:16:10,169 --> 00:16:13,439 is going to tell them that the button is right in front of them. 264 00:16:13,639 --> 00:16:15,374 And so it's easy to find. 265 00:16:15,374 --> 00:16:18,210 This is extremely easy to use, and 266 00:16:18,210 --> 00:16:22,281 we've done this because, obviously, if you don't see very well, you know, 267 00:16:22,281 --> 00:16:24,616 you don't want anything to be hard, and there's a little, 268 00:16:24,616 --> 00:16:27,486 there's an arrow on the front, too. Underneath there's… 269 00:16:27,486 --> 00:16:28,887 a little… 270 00:16:29,021 --> 00:16:31,590 A volume control, sorry. And, 271 00:16:31,590 --> 00:16:36,562 because it resets to a sort of an in-between volume every time, 272 00:16:36,562 --> 00:16:40,299 so that if somebody like me was to put it on and have it really loud, 273 00:16:40,299 --> 00:16:42,501 when I put the headphones back on, 274 00:16:42,501 --> 00:16:46,939 it's going to automatically reset so that the next person doesn't get blasted. And... 275 00:16:46,939 --> 00:16:52,277 But you can adjust it if you need to as well. Again, very simple to use. And… 276 00:16:52,277 --> 00:16:54,279 Yeah, and this painting, actually, 277 00:16:55,347 --> 00:16:57,549 So, a lot of what I paint 278 00:16:57,549 --> 00:17:00,753 these days is landscape. 279 00:17:00,753 --> 00:17:04,523 Because I feel very connected to the land, and 280 00:17:04,890 --> 00:17:06,692 I know that sounds very… 281 00:17:06,692 --> 00:17:08,427 A lot of people kind of say that. 282 00:17:08,427 --> 00:17:10,295 But places where you're… 283 00:17:10,295 --> 00:17:13,866 The sense of places where your safety and your comfort is. 284 00:17:13,866 --> 00:17:16,835 And because I don't see very well, and I don't 285 00:17:16,835 --> 00:17:19,171 like to explore things I don't… 286 00:17:19,338 --> 00:17:22,040 I'm not comfortable, especially on my own. 287 00:17:23,108 --> 00:17:28,113 The places that I remember and the places that are around me are super important to me. 288 00:17:28,113 --> 00:17:32,785 And this one is actually, this is a photograph, this is a house that I grew up in. 289 00:17:33,085 --> 00:17:39,191 And it was a place of, you know, great safety and happiness and comfort, and so… 290 00:17:39,491 --> 00:17:41,627 It is called the Elms, and so 291 00:17:41,627 --> 00:17:45,064 these figures around the house, well, even in the picture, 292 00:17:45,064 --> 00:17:49,501 are elm trees before the Dutch elm disease killed everything in 1968. 293 00:17:49,701 --> 00:17:52,538 And then there's corn growing down in the front here, 294 00:17:52,538 --> 00:17:54,940 and the big billowing clouds, and 295 00:17:54,940 --> 00:18:00,579 yeah, I'm just trying to create that feeling of safety and comfort that my home brought me. 296 00:18:00,579 --> 00:18:05,017 And my paintings, I mean, because I'm always looking at my feet, 297 00:18:05,684 --> 00:18:07,886 I don't often see what's around me. 298 00:18:07,886 --> 00:18:11,223 If I do a painting landscape that's, you know, 299 00:18:11,223 --> 00:18:15,060 a broad landscape. I, you know, I have to stop 300 00:18:15,060 --> 00:18:19,231 and look, and then really experience. I mean, if I'm just walking along, 301 00:18:19,531 --> 00:18:22,267 I don't really know what's around me, because I have to… 302 00:18:22,267 --> 00:18:24,703 I've broken so many bones in my feet. 303 00:18:24,970 --> 00:18:26,772 We've just got this whole dead zone that I… 304 00:18:26,772 --> 00:18:30,943 Even though I use my cane, I'm still looking to see what's down there in front of me, 305 00:18:30,943 --> 00:18:32,878 in case I miss something, so… 306 00:18:32,878 --> 00:18:35,247 But yeah, landscape is… 307 00:18:35,547 --> 00:18:38,984 where, you know, is basically what I'm painting right now, a lot of, so… 308 00:18:39,117 --> 00:18:41,286 [Diane] This house is in Ontario? 309 00:18:41,353 --> 00:18:45,390 [Robyn] It's gone. Yes, it was in Markham. My great-grandfather built it, and... 310 00:18:45,624 --> 00:18:47,526 So that had a tremendous amount of meaning for me, 311 00:18:47,526 --> 00:18:50,229 and there were 5 houses on this property that he built. 312 00:18:50,429 --> 00:18:52,664 And so my great-grandparents lived on one side, 313 00:18:52,664 --> 00:18:54,600 and my grandmother lived on the other. 314 00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:58,971 And until I was 13, I had this experience of growing up with these elders 315 00:18:58,971 --> 00:19:02,741 who were just so fabulous, you know, and so loving, and… 316 00:19:02,741 --> 00:19:06,311 Yeah, it's, you know, it's a very special 317 00:19:06,578 --> 00:19:09,848 episodic memory for me, you know, to remember, 318 00:19:09,848 --> 00:19:11,049 living at the Elms. 319 00:19:11,049 --> 00:19:14,319 [Diane] And in order to paint this painting, you had the picture, 320 00:19:14,319 --> 00:19:17,456 but did you also go back there and try to explore 321 00:19:17,456 --> 00:19:20,759 tactilely what was around you, or not? 322 00:19:20,759 --> 00:19:24,630 [Robyn] No, the house is gone. The house was torn down in 1975. 323 00:19:24,630 --> 00:19:27,065 And there's an apartment building there. 324 00:19:27,065 --> 00:19:29,601 So, no, all memory. All memory. 325 00:19:29,601 --> 00:19:33,071 I spent a lot of time on that property. I spent a lot of time by myself. 326 00:19:33,071 --> 00:19:36,808 I knew there was… I guess, about two and a half acres, and I knew every inch of it. 327 00:19:36,808 --> 00:19:39,611 And, you know, climbed… not the elm trees, they were too tall, 328 00:19:39,611 --> 00:19:41,446 but I climbed all the trees, and I… 329 00:19:41,446 --> 00:19:46,151 I just spent a lot of time immersed in the actual property, you know? 330 00:19:46,151 --> 00:19:49,821 And so it's, yeah, it's a huge part of my identity. 331 00:19:49,988 --> 00:19:53,725 [Diane] So, before going to your upcoming exhibition, 332 00:19:53,725 --> 00:19:56,995 I wanted to go back to something you said about 333 00:19:56,995 --> 00:20:00,799 when you were yourself studying painting. 334 00:20:01,133 --> 00:20:05,604 Or being influenced by Robert Bateman and, 335 00:20:05,604 --> 00:20:08,740 and this really naturalist painting, 336 00:20:08,740 --> 00:20:11,410 you were saying that you were printing a lot of birds at this time, 337 00:20:11,410 --> 00:20:16,882 which might imply a lot of details when you're painting a bird. 338 00:20:16,882 --> 00:20:19,117 [Robyn] Absolutely. All those feathers. 339 00:20:19,151 --> 00:20:24,356 [Diane] Yeah, and from what, from that period, what did you keep in your current practices 340 00:20:24,356 --> 00:20:32,264 of trying to put some of what you've learned as a younger artist 341 00:20:32,264 --> 00:20:35,267 and apply it to what you do now in your artistry? 342 00:20:35,634 --> 00:20:38,370 [Robyn] That's a really good question. 343 00:20:39,271 --> 00:20:44,109 I can't even say color, because I use a lot more color now than I ever used to. 344 00:20:44,576 --> 00:20:47,279 Probably those interference colors, 345 00:20:47,279 --> 00:20:48,747 you know, even when I painted birds, 346 00:20:48,747 --> 00:20:52,384 because their feathers have that, you know, that 347 00:20:52,384 --> 00:20:55,721 iridescence to them. I used a lot of that paint. 348 00:20:55,821 --> 00:20:59,191 Because it… again, you know, you would look at it from a different angle 349 00:20:59,191 --> 00:21:02,194 and get that different, that different perspective. 350 00:21:02,194 --> 00:21:07,099 So, and yes, I still like my interference and iridescent color. 351 00:21:07,499 --> 00:21:10,902 [Diane] But right now, so if I look at the painting that is behind you, 352 00:21:10,902 --> 00:21:16,675 I'm thinking of the feather. Here is… there are leaves, there are corn, there are everything. 353 00:21:16,675 --> 00:21:20,345 And it seems to be, visually, what I'm seeing is 354 00:21:20,345 --> 00:21:24,383 that there are lots more, there are texture that you apply, right? There are 355 00:21:24,383 --> 00:21:27,019 layers of painting and texture. 356 00:21:27,019 --> 00:21:30,656 [Robyn] Oh, absolutely, and different mediums. This one is quite rough. 357 00:21:30,656 --> 00:21:34,292 It's a gel medium that dries very hard. 358 00:21:34,292 --> 00:21:36,295 And what else have I got in here? 359 00:21:36,295 --> 00:21:37,996 Oh, there's glass beads. 360 00:21:38,130 --> 00:21:40,399 A medium that has glass beads in it. 361 00:21:40,399 --> 00:21:43,402 Again, just gives you that, you know, that shimmer, and… 362 00:21:43,402 --> 00:21:46,972 Yes, I still like… I like shimmer. 363 00:21:46,972 --> 00:21:49,775 And that's… and my vision is like that, too. I have, 364 00:21:49,775 --> 00:21:52,177 you know, I've got a lot of blind spots. 365 00:21:52,678 --> 00:21:55,113 And I don't know if you remember. 366 00:21:55,113 --> 00:21:59,051 Yeah, you're old enough to remember this. Younger people don't always. 367 00:21:59,384 --> 00:22:01,820 The TV, remember the snow on TV? 368 00:22:02,654 --> 00:22:05,090 My vision is completely covered in that, so… 369 00:22:05,090 --> 00:22:08,460 So there's constant movement and little lights flashing, and so, 370 00:22:08,460 --> 00:22:11,596 yeah, those things, that kind of picks up that idea. 371 00:22:12,597 --> 00:22:15,634 [Diane] Okay, so let's talk about your upcoming exhibition, then. 372 00:22:15,634 --> 00:22:18,637 So, this one will be where and when? 373 00:22:18,637 --> 00:22:21,873 [Robyn] All right, so upcoming is… 374 00:22:22,574 --> 00:22:25,477 It's called Art for Social Change. 375 00:22:25,510 --> 00:22:29,281 And it's taking place… it starts on December the 3rd to 10th, 376 00:22:29,281 --> 00:22:33,251 out in Alberta, in… it's Wood Buffalo, 377 00:22:33,251 --> 00:22:36,188 Regional Municipality of Wood Buffalo. 378 00:22:36,188 --> 00:22:41,059 They're holding this show at Keyano College in Fort McMurray, Alberta. 379 00:22:41,059 --> 00:22:45,330 And I like it because the December the 3rd is the… 380 00:22:45,330 --> 00:22:48,100 is the International Day for People with Disabilities. 381 00:22:48,100 --> 00:22:52,604 And then December the 10th is International Day for Human Rights. 382 00:22:52,604 --> 00:22:56,041 So they've, you know, they've bookended it with that, which is really cool. 383 00:22:56,041 --> 00:22:59,377 And this show, I'm so excited about this. 384 00:22:59,377 --> 00:23:03,882 They've got seven multidisciplinary artists, including me, 385 00:23:04,316 --> 00:23:07,686 whose installations explore this theme of accessibility, 386 00:23:08,186 --> 00:23:11,456 So what they want… I mean, I think I'm the only visual artist. 387 00:23:11,456 --> 00:23:13,358 Pretty sure. There might be one other. 388 00:23:13,392 --> 00:23:18,196 But certainly the only one doing, you know, with the audio headsets and the tactile art. 389 00:23:18,196 --> 00:23:21,500 And they want to inspire their visitors. 390 00:23:21,500 --> 00:23:23,568 So it's less for people who don't see, 391 00:23:23,568 --> 00:23:26,805 it's more to inspire visitors to reflect 392 00:23:26,805 --> 00:23:32,177 and connect and take action to address barriers to accessibility and inclusion. 393 00:23:32,344 --> 00:23:35,147 And that is so important, because 394 00:23:35,147 --> 00:23:36,915 people, you know, fully 395 00:23:36,915 --> 00:23:39,951 sighted and fully able-bodied people, 396 00:23:39,951 --> 00:23:42,254 as much, even as they want to 397 00:23:42,254 --> 00:23:45,323 be more inclusive, they don't know what to do. 398 00:23:45,390 --> 00:23:48,393 And so, you know, to really think about 399 00:23:48,393 --> 00:23:51,997 what does this mean that I have to do to make somebody who can't see, 400 00:23:51,997 --> 00:23:54,432 you know, know what I'm doing, and, 401 00:23:54,432 --> 00:23:57,903 or somebody who can't move, they're in a wheelchair, 402 00:23:57,903 --> 00:24:01,072 and, you know, they can't get from one area to another, you know. 403 00:24:01,606 --> 00:24:06,745 It's so important to change that medical definition of disability into the social one, 404 00:24:06,745 --> 00:24:10,382 where it's about removing the barriers, not that the person is the problem, 405 00:24:10,382 --> 00:24:14,019 but the barriers are the problem. You know all about this. 406 00:24:14,019 --> 00:24:16,721 So, this show is really… 407 00:24:16,721 --> 00:24:19,357 That is their intent with this, and I'm, 408 00:24:19,524 --> 00:24:22,527 I'm very impressed. It's the first time I've ever had a show. 409 00:24:22,661 --> 00:24:24,963 And so it's, you know, it's… 410 00:24:24,963 --> 00:24:27,199 It's been a learning experience, but… 411 00:24:27,666 --> 00:24:30,302 I think they're doing a fabulous job. 412 00:24:30,802 --> 00:24:33,004 [Diane] And for your part, so you're gonna… 413 00:24:33,004 --> 00:24:37,242 What are you going to show as your art piece over there? 414 00:24:37,242 --> 00:24:42,547 I sent six 30 by 30 paintings and replicas and 415 00:24:42,581 --> 00:24:48,720 tactile, or sorry, audio devices and brailled tags, and large print tags. 416 00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:52,123 I sent everything out there. I shipped it out. 417 00:24:52,457 --> 00:24:56,928 I think the other artists and performers are going to be on site. 418 00:24:56,928 --> 00:25:01,633 I wasn't comfortable going to a strange city by myself. 419 00:25:02,534 --> 00:25:05,871 I do travel, but I need to know 420 00:25:05,871 --> 00:25:09,474 where I'm going and who's going to meet me, and, you know. So, 421 00:25:09,841 --> 00:25:13,245 yeah, so I'm just doing my part virtually, which is fine. I didn't… 422 00:25:13,245 --> 00:25:14,713 They don't need me there. 423 00:25:14,713 --> 00:25:18,083 That was one thing that we did discover that in setting everything up, 424 00:25:18,083 --> 00:25:21,286 it's so user-friendly, it's so well documented. 425 00:25:21,286 --> 00:25:24,289 There have been no issues whatsoever, and in fact, tactile, or… 426 00:25:24,656 --> 00:25:28,460 Tangled Arts in Toronto, they have a show that just opened last Friday, 427 00:25:28,460 --> 00:25:31,863 and they are using our audio devices, 428 00:25:31,863 --> 00:25:34,366 and they had absolutely no problem setting things up. 429 00:25:34,466 --> 00:25:36,434 So that was really good to know. 430 00:25:36,434 --> 00:25:41,106 [Diane] Wow, okay. Well, there was something you said that I'm intrigued about. 431 00:25:41,139 --> 00:25:42,474 [Robyn] Sure. 432 00:25:42,474 --> 00:25:45,777 [Diane] You said, yeah, I'm not used to travel in strange cities. 433 00:25:45,777 --> 00:25:50,949 So when you are traveling, are you… 434 00:25:50,949 --> 00:25:54,786 What is the organization around 435 00:25:54,786 --> 00:25:59,324 traveling to a city where you don't know everything about the city 436 00:25:59,324 --> 00:26:02,527 but you have to do an exhibition in person. 437 00:26:02,527 --> 00:26:05,530 How do you… what is your preparation? What do you do? 438 00:26:05,797 --> 00:26:08,800 [Robyn] I would take my husband or my daughter. 439 00:26:09,868 --> 00:26:13,872 I'm just not there yet. You know, I know people do 440 00:26:13,872 --> 00:26:16,908 and that they're much braver than me. 441 00:26:17,175 --> 00:26:19,911 But I'm… I think, too, because of the, 442 00:26:19,911 --> 00:26:22,180 you know, the number of falls that I've had, I'm… 443 00:26:22,614 --> 00:26:24,616 I'm just not comfortable. 444 00:26:25,250 --> 00:26:27,285 You know, but… 445 00:26:27,285 --> 00:26:28,987 when I do travel by myself, 446 00:26:28,987 --> 00:26:30,255 and I, you know, I know where I'm going, 447 00:26:30,255 --> 00:26:33,592 I often travel out to Kelowna, BC. I have family there. 448 00:26:34,059 --> 00:26:35,427 Air Canada. 449 00:26:35,660 --> 00:26:37,529 They just, they're fabulous. 450 00:26:37,662 --> 00:26:42,267 You know, they make sure I get from… I'm escorted from, you know, one part of the terminal to another, 451 00:26:42,267 --> 00:26:45,136 because I wouldn't be able to find my way. And 452 00:26:45,837 --> 00:26:47,772 They just do everything. They're great. 453 00:26:47,772 --> 00:26:51,276 And the same with VIA Rail. VIA Rail is phenomenal as well. 454 00:26:51,276 --> 00:26:55,246 So, yeah, you know what? That is one thing I do, is, I choose 455 00:26:55,614 --> 00:27:00,285 modes of transportation where I know that I'm going to have the customer service I need. 456 00:27:00,752 --> 00:27:05,957 [Diane] Yeah, that's a good thing. Everybody has different access needs, so your access need is to 457 00:27:06,091 --> 00:27:14,099 make sure that your… whoever accompanies you drives you from point A to point B safely 458 00:27:14,099 --> 00:27:17,969 and get everything that you need, so that's really good. 459 00:27:18,203 --> 00:27:22,307 [Robyn] Yeah. Gets me through the security, and, 460 00:27:22,307 --> 00:27:25,477 and then from there on, you know, the airline takes over, 461 00:27:25,477 --> 00:27:28,713 and they're always very, very accommodating, so… 462 00:27:29,481 --> 00:27:33,518 [Diane] Okay, and I wanted to know a little bit more about the… 463 00:27:33,518 --> 00:27:37,756 So you talked about a big exhibition that will happen in 2027? 464 00:27:37,756 --> 00:27:39,157 [Robyn] 2028. 465 00:27:39,157 --> 00:27:41,393 [Diane] 2028, can you talk about that? 466 00:27:41,393 --> 00:27:44,062 [Robyn] Yeah, it's… Okay, so it's on the ground floor, 467 00:27:44,062 --> 00:27:46,765 which is fabulous, because that makes it more accessible, 468 00:27:46,765 --> 00:27:50,568 and honestly, I need to go in. I have not begun 469 00:27:51,202 --> 00:27:52,971 deciding how many paintings I want. 470 00:27:52,971 --> 00:27:55,640 I'll probably do 30 by 30 again, 471 00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:58,043 because it's a format that I'm very comfortable with, 472 00:27:58,043 --> 00:28:00,979 and it just works really well for what I want to do. 473 00:28:00,979 --> 00:28:03,415 You know, anything larger is a little bit hard. 474 00:28:03,415 --> 00:28:05,383 Too small doesn't give me enough room. 475 00:28:05,383 --> 00:28:06,051 And... 476 00:28:06,051 --> 00:28:07,385 [Diane] Where is it, and when? 477 00:28:07,385 --> 00:28:10,922 [Robyn] Oh, sorry, it's in St. John, in St. John, New Brunswick. 478 00:28:10,922 --> 00:28:16,528 It's in November of 2028, and it's in the St. John Arts Center, which is this 479 00:28:16,528 --> 00:28:19,864 fabulous building, right in uptown. 480 00:28:19,864 --> 00:28:21,866 It's called Uptown 481 00:28:21,966 --> 00:28:24,569 St. John, it's right up this hill. 482 00:28:24,569 --> 00:28:27,972 I don't know if you've ever been to St. John, it reminds me a lot of, 483 00:28:28,306 --> 00:28:33,311 of San Francisco, you know, these great big hills that come down to the port. 484 00:28:33,411 --> 00:28:38,049 And the building is beautiful. It reminds me of the ROM in Toronto. 485 00:28:38,049 --> 00:28:41,319 It's, you know, it's this an old building, and the center of it has 486 00:28:41,319 --> 00:28:44,022 this beautiful rotunda with stained glass, and… 487 00:28:44,022 --> 00:28:49,461 Yeah, it's just a great building. I'm very, very excited about having a show there, so… 488 00:28:49,461 --> 00:28:52,030 And the same thing, you know, I will do the, 489 00:28:52,263 --> 00:28:56,634 the tactile replicas and the audio devices and, 490 00:28:56,634 --> 00:28:58,737 and introduce my art to 491 00:28:58,737 --> 00:28:59,971 the Maritimes. 492 00:28:59,971 --> 00:29:02,407 [Diane] Yeah, you're traveling from one part to the other, that's great. 493 00:29:02,407 --> 00:29:04,175 [Robyn] Oh, yeah, yeah, that's true. 494 00:29:04,175 --> 00:29:06,277 Yeah, I've actually had two shows in Alberta, and 495 00:29:06,277 --> 00:29:08,947 haven't made it quite to BC yet, but I'll get there. 496 00:29:10,181 --> 00:29:14,119 [Diane] Well, speaking of traveling, there is one thing that you did that 497 00:29:14,119 --> 00:29:18,656 was actually documented in an AMI 498 00:29:18,656 --> 00:29:21,459 short documentary that was made about you. 499 00:29:21,459 --> 00:29:24,629 It's the work you're doing with CNIB, 500 00:29:24,629 --> 00:29:27,665 so the one you did at Lake Joe Camp. 501 00:29:27,932 --> 00:29:30,335 [Robyn] Yes. [Diane] Can you talk about that workshop? 502 00:29:30,368 --> 00:29:34,205 [Robyn] Oh, it was so much fun. The kids were amazing. 503 00:29:34,205 --> 00:29:37,709 They, you know, they were so enthusiastic, and they were… 504 00:29:38,243 --> 00:29:44,282 and they taught me things, and I used them as guinea pigs in a way, because I wanted to see, 505 00:29:44,349 --> 00:29:46,384 with the tactile pieces, 506 00:29:46,384 --> 00:29:51,489 you know, I had them close their eyes and sometimes some of them didn't need to, but… 507 00:29:51,489 --> 00:29:56,795 and they explore the tactile pieces while I described it out loud. I walked around the room and described it 508 00:29:56,795 --> 00:30:01,866 to see what their reaction was to, you know, because I wanted to see what happens when somebody 509 00:30:02,233 --> 00:30:06,237 you know, does this on the wall with my paintings, so I had them, 510 00:30:07,238 --> 00:30:12,477 I had them, you know, go through this motion and then tell me, you know, how they responded to it. 511 00:30:12,911 --> 00:30:16,147 And then when we made our paintings ourselves, you know, and 512 00:30:16,147 --> 00:30:18,917 I think I talk in the documentary about this one child who 513 00:30:18,917 --> 00:30:21,786 basically creates tactile red. 514 00:30:21,786 --> 00:30:24,055 And that just blew me away. 515 00:30:24,055 --> 00:30:30,562 You know, kids are so capable of so many more things than we can even imagine. They really are, and she… 516 00:30:31,095 --> 00:30:36,601 Yeah, I loved it. I really loved it. I would like to do that again sometime. 517 00:30:37,101 --> 00:30:39,137 It was very, very worthwhile. 518 00:30:39,304 --> 00:30:43,541 [Diane] But, so, how did it start, and what was it about exactly? What was the workshop? 519 00:30:43,541 --> 00:30:47,145 So, CNIB went to knock on your door and said 520 00:30:47,145 --> 00:30:54,552 I would love for you to do a workshop for children with visual impairments? How did it happen? 521 00:30:54,552 --> 00:31:00,124 [Robyn] Kind of. Well, I was an ambassador for several years for them. 522 00:31:00,124 --> 00:31:04,562 And then I was doing, you know, I had written some articles, because I'm a writer as well, 523 00:31:04,562 --> 00:31:07,232 and had done some advocacy work. 524 00:31:07,232 --> 00:31:10,535 And I guess the woman that I was working with, I don't know how it came about, 525 00:31:10,535 --> 00:31:17,141 but I mentioned this show that I was having, and she didn't know the art aspect of my life, and so she… 526 00:31:17,141 --> 00:31:21,479 She's Sherri Helsdingen, she's in the documentary. 527 00:31:21,479 --> 00:31:26,150 And she said, you know, would you be interested in facilitating a workshop, 528 00:31:26,150 --> 00:31:30,688 you know, with children at the camp? And I was like, yeah, absolutely, because I love kids. 529 00:31:30,688 --> 00:31:34,659 And that's how it happened, and I, you know, I made them, I made these pallets 530 00:31:34,659 --> 00:31:41,065 with some of the things I was talking to you about, I think I had 6 different mediums that have various 531 00:31:41,065 --> 00:31:44,135 you know, textures to them. And I made these palettes up 532 00:31:44,135 --> 00:31:48,673 with the medium, so that they could feel what it would feel like when it was dry, because, you know, 533 00:31:48,673 --> 00:31:51,175 they wouldn't know that until the next day or two, 534 00:31:51,175 --> 00:31:54,379 and, so that they would know what the end result was. 535 00:31:54,379 --> 00:31:58,883 And I did everything in large print and braille so they could find their way around the palette. 536 00:31:58,883 --> 00:32:03,254 And then we just went to town, and they had a great time. 537 00:32:03,755 --> 00:32:06,424 So… and we didn't paint them... 538 00:32:06,424 --> 00:32:08,559 some of the children have some vision, 539 00:32:08,559 --> 00:32:13,097 and they certainly could have done, like, how I do, you know, like, after I've done all this tactile stuff, 540 00:32:13,097 --> 00:32:16,734 it's all in white and clear, and then I paint on top of it. 541 00:32:16,734 --> 00:32:19,871 You know, they were certainly welcome to do that. I was only there for the afternoon. 542 00:32:19,871 --> 00:32:23,408 But yeah, it was a success. 543 00:32:23,474 --> 00:32:29,480 [Diane] It looks like the environment itself, the Lake Joe, or whatever the lake was around, 544 00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:36,721 was beautiful and. It's kind of an inspiring environment in a way, like, 545 00:32:36,721 --> 00:32:44,429 It's kind of... by the documentary, the images, we could see it looks beautiful. 546 00:32:44,562 --> 00:32:47,565 [Robyn] It is absolutely gorgeous in Muskoka. Oh yeah. 547 00:32:47,565 --> 00:32:49,500 And I had never been there before, actually. 548 00:32:49,500 --> 00:32:52,437 So that was a new experience for me, too, but yes. 549 00:32:52,437 --> 00:32:55,907 And so accessible! I mean, it's completely accessible 550 00:32:55,907 --> 00:33:01,012 for these… and they go fishing, they swim, they go out in the canoes, 551 00:33:01,012 --> 00:33:05,616 they do, you know, they golf! there was golf, and I couldn't believe that. 552 00:33:05,616 --> 00:33:09,554 And, you know, all kinds of things that they're doing, so not just arts and crafts kind of thing. 553 00:33:09,587 --> 00:33:11,789 And they… yeah. 554 00:33:11,789 --> 00:33:14,359 You know, so that they can feel like everybody else. 555 00:33:14,659 --> 00:33:16,794 And then the week that I was there was Family Week, so 556 00:33:16,794 --> 00:33:20,031 their brothers and sisters were there with them, too, and they were able to have 557 00:33:20,031 --> 00:33:23,901 a family camping experience that was completely accessible. 558 00:33:23,901 --> 00:33:27,939 And, yeah, I can't say enough about Lake Joe, it's fabulous. 559 00:33:29,207 --> 00:33:35,980 [Diane] Thank you. I have a question about… you talked about that a little bit already in your answers, 560 00:33:35,980 --> 00:33:40,218 but I'm always curious about the notion of 561 00:33:40,518 --> 00:33:48,526 artists defending or including accessibility and inclusion practices in their artistic work. 562 00:33:48,526 --> 00:33:52,029 What does it mean for you to work in, 563 00:33:52,029 --> 00:33:58,903 in an accessibility art environment, or to be an advocate of accessibility arts 564 00:33:58,903 --> 00:34:01,706 in artistic practices? 565 00:34:02,140 --> 00:34:05,376 [Robyn] Well, it's totally my passion at this point. 566 00:34:05,376 --> 00:34:07,845 You know, like, the need is there. 567 00:34:07,845 --> 00:34:09,814 I experienced this firsthand. 568 00:34:09,814 --> 00:34:14,819 And I understand that it's really important to provide this. 569 00:34:14,819 --> 00:34:18,122 You know, to provide as many experiences 570 00:34:18,122 --> 00:34:23,461 as possible, and, you know, and include as many people as possible in art, because 571 00:34:23,861 --> 00:34:28,366 we all need our, you know, and it's good for our psyche, 572 00:34:28,499 --> 00:34:32,503 it's good for our soul, that creative impulse is sort of 573 00:34:32,503 --> 00:34:34,872 within us, whether we're good at it or not, 574 00:34:34,872 --> 00:34:39,077 you know, and we love to experience art and look at art, and even if you can't see it, 575 00:34:39,077 --> 00:34:40,845 you know, to be able to touch art, 576 00:34:40,845 --> 00:34:43,781 is very valuable. 577 00:34:44,282 --> 00:34:49,687 And yes, it's important to me. This has become the focus of my art career at this point. 578 00:34:49,987 --> 00:34:52,590 [Diane] In the documentary, you say something that I love: 579 00:34:52,590 --> 00:34:55,393 "Tactile art will be the future of arts." 580 00:34:55,393 --> 00:34:58,996 [Robyn] Oh, I hope so. I'm working hard. (Laughs.) 581 00:34:58,996 --> 00:35:01,933 I'm working hard to get it out there, and actually, 582 00:35:01,933 --> 00:35:07,205 there has been one artist so far who has bought some of these units to use for his own 583 00:35:07,205 --> 00:35:09,474 shows, which is great. 584 00:35:10,007 --> 00:35:15,980 I don't… he doesn't have tactile work as well, but at least he has the audio description, 585 00:35:15,980 --> 00:35:17,715 which is really important. 586 00:35:17,715 --> 00:35:22,053 And, I mean, honestly, I think that galleries and museums should all be using this. 587 00:35:22,053 --> 00:35:25,356 I mean, it would apply to any number of 588 00:35:25,356 --> 00:35:30,261 exhibits, you know? And there is some, for sure. 589 00:35:30,261 --> 00:35:34,899 But not enough. And I'll give you an example. I went to, 590 00:35:35,132 --> 00:35:39,003 to a conference at the Textile Museum in Toronto. 591 00:35:39,437 --> 00:35:44,208 And there wasn't one single thing that you could touch. 592 00:35:44,208 --> 00:35:48,312 And it's like, all this tactile textile, 593 00:35:48,312 --> 00:35:52,517 and there's nothing, there was nothing available that you could put your hands on. 594 00:35:52,517 --> 00:35:56,187 And I thought that that was a real lost opportunity, you know? 595 00:35:57,355 --> 00:36:01,993 [Diane] Especially since you can try to put clothes... 596 00:36:01,993 --> 00:36:08,666 Like you are doing a duplication of one of your artworks so that people can touch them. 597 00:36:08,666 --> 00:36:16,841 With of piece of fabric it's even easier in a way to just put a little bit of the fabric 598 00:36:16,841 --> 00:36:19,143 just for people to feel it. 599 00:36:19,143 --> 00:36:23,681 [Robyn] Yeah, but there again, people just don't think about this, you know, and 600 00:36:23,681 --> 00:36:27,118 I've had experience, you know... 601 00:36:27,118 --> 00:36:29,987 not collaborating, that's not the right word, 602 00:36:29,987 --> 00:36:35,660 but, you know, in speaking with some people that were hired as art directors for galleries, 603 00:36:35,660 --> 00:36:40,932 you know, had received money, hired as not just an art director, but 604 00:36:40,932 --> 00:36:43,935 an accessibility expert, and… 605 00:36:44,635 --> 00:36:46,370 Didn't know what to do. 606 00:36:46,370 --> 00:36:47,438 So… 607 00:36:47,438 --> 00:36:51,642 and so, you know, I feel like that's kind of partly my job, 608 00:36:51,709 --> 00:36:54,879 in my own disability is to… 609 00:36:55,112 --> 00:36:57,181 in my lived experience, is to 610 00:36:57,181 --> 00:37:00,117 tell people, well, this is what I need, right? 611 00:37:00,117 --> 00:37:04,956 So, you know what it's like. I mean, there's no one-size-fits-all for disability, and, 612 00:37:04,956 --> 00:37:09,961 and for accessibility, and, you know, everybody's need is a little bit different. 613 00:37:10,061 --> 00:37:13,564 But if you're not living that experience, 614 00:37:13,564 --> 00:37:15,967 it's hard to even imagine what someone needs, so 615 00:37:16,467 --> 00:37:17,401 we have to speak up, I guess. 616 00:37:17,401 --> 00:37:19,537 [Diane] Yeah, definitely! 617 00:37:19,537 --> 00:37:22,740 I mean, that's what I love with these interviews is that we always, 618 00:37:22,740 --> 00:37:26,310 there is always something to learn and always something to, 619 00:37:26,310 --> 00:37:30,281 to teach each other, actually, and to think of. 620 00:37:30,414 --> 00:37:32,483 [Robyn] Yes. [Diane] in a better accessibility. 621 00:37:32,483 --> 00:37:34,852 And plus, there is an evolution with... 622 00:37:34,852 --> 00:37:40,424 Now, today, we have some possibilities that we didn't have a few years ago. 623 00:37:40,424 --> 00:37:45,396 So, yeah, it's an important thing to just stop and say: 624 00:37:45,396 --> 00:37:47,565 How could I make it better? 625 00:37:47,565 --> 00:37:54,538 [Robyn] Right. Oh, the technology, especially for visual disability, 626 00:37:54,538 --> 00:37:56,841 is amazing. 627 00:37:56,841 --> 00:37:59,944 Now, not necessarily affordable at this point. 628 00:37:59,944 --> 00:38:02,380 Hopefully that will improve. 629 00:38:02,380 --> 00:38:04,015 But it's incredible, you know. 630 00:38:04,015 --> 00:38:08,486 I often think about Helen Keller and how excited she was about Braille. (Laughs.) 631 00:38:08,486 --> 00:38:10,988 And thinking, oh my gosh, can you just imagine what she would have thought 632 00:38:10,988 --> 00:38:13,624 about all the technology we have now, you know? 633 00:38:14,792 --> 00:38:20,398 [Diane] So if someone wanted to contact you for more information about 634 00:38:20,398 --> 00:38:25,336 these devices that you're using for visual description, 635 00:38:25,336 --> 00:38:28,272 how would you do that? We would go to your website? 636 00:38:28,272 --> 00:38:31,676 [Robyn] On my website, and there is actually a link for, 637 00:38:31,676 --> 00:38:37,548 for galleries, gallery-specific link for that information, it's all very documented. 638 00:38:37,548 --> 00:38:40,718 And, yeah, you said you would 639 00:38:40,718 --> 00:38:42,953 put that website up, so that's good. [Diane] I will. 640 00:38:42,953 --> 00:38:46,090 [Robyn] Yes, and there's information, there's also information about the show 641 00:38:46,090 --> 00:38:51,962 in Wood Buffalo region right now, and there's news about, you know, the upcoming show. 642 00:38:52,363 --> 00:38:53,397 I keep… 643 00:38:53,397 --> 00:38:55,499 And there's pictures from the old show, and I'm, 644 00:38:55,700 --> 00:38:58,569 I'm catching up on all my alt text, so… 645 00:38:58,569 --> 00:39:00,538 That's a full-time job! 646 00:39:00,538 --> 00:39:04,975 [Diane] Yeah, so, we will have a link to that on ArtsAbly's website 647 00:39:04,975 --> 00:39:09,213 when the podcast will be, the episode will be released. 648 00:39:09,580 --> 00:39:12,917 [Robyn] Okay, good. I'm just looking to see if there was anything else I wanted to tell you there. 649 00:39:12,917 --> 00:39:16,187 Oh, I know what I wanted to say. I'd mentioned about Frida Kahlo before, 650 00:39:16,353 --> 00:39:19,356 and, you know, how much she inspires me, 651 00:39:19,356 --> 00:39:22,560 and I think a lot of it is because, like, not just only that she, 652 00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:26,063 you know, that she's a feminist, which is hugely important to me, and 653 00:39:26,063 --> 00:39:29,467 but her pain, you know, and that she suffered, and... 654 00:39:29,467 --> 00:39:33,471 I have a lot of pain. I have scoliosis and spinal stenosis, 655 00:39:33,571 --> 00:39:38,609 and so I live with chronic pain, and I think about her all the time, you know, laying in bed, painting. 656 00:39:38,843 --> 00:39:41,846 And because… and it was important because, you know, 657 00:39:41,846 --> 00:39:45,149 she painted to say that she was here, 658 00:39:45,149 --> 00:39:47,051 that she… this… she was 659 00:39:47,051 --> 00:39:51,155 here, and this is what she's feeling, and that her existence mattered. 660 00:39:51,155 --> 00:39:52,923 And that, to me, is, 661 00:39:52,923 --> 00:39:56,360 is so important, because I think a lot of times, 662 00:39:56,360 --> 00:39:58,929 people with disabilities get dismissed. 663 00:39:58,929 --> 00:40:02,133 You know, and, you know, that… 664 00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:04,435 That's not right. Like... 665 00:40:04,435 --> 00:40:08,806 So yes, her, the fact that she just kept painting and painting and painting and, 666 00:40:09,240 --> 00:40:11,876 and letting everybody know that she existed 667 00:40:11,876 --> 00:40:15,346 was super, is super important to me. It inspires me. 668 00:40:15,713 --> 00:40:21,418 [Diane] Okay, wow, so it's great, I really 669 00:40:21,819 --> 00:40:26,724 wish I could have right now the possibility of going to any of your exhibitions, to just 670 00:40:26,724 --> 00:40:28,325 feel the tactile! (Laughs) 671 00:40:28,325 --> 00:40:30,961 [Robyn] What, you're not gonna fly out to Fort McMurray? (Laughs.) 672 00:40:30,995 --> 00:40:33,831 [Diane] I'm not sure I will do that! (Laughs.) 673 00:40:33,831 --> 00:40:38,836 [Robyn] Oh, that's okay. Yeah, it's a little cold in December in Fort McMurray, too. 674 00:40:40,137 --> 00:40:43,908 [Diane] Okay, well, thank you so much for this interview. It was really… 675 00:40:43,908 --> 00:40:47,144 I learned a lot, and it made me think of, 676 00:40:47,711 --> 00:40:51,449 you know, when I am visiting exhibitions, what is here or not? 677 00:40:51,449 --> 00:40:53,884 If there are some Braille descriptions. 678 00:40:53,884 --> 00:40:57,521 If there are some ways to lead people 679 00:40:57,521 --> 00:41:01,926 to specific parts of the room, such as, with a white cane, 680 00:41:01,926 --> 00:41:06,997 to be able to follow the instructions to go to the, 681 00:41:06,997 --> 00:41:08,532 to the device. 682 00:41:08,532 --> 00:41:11,035 And, yeah, it's really, really interesting. 683 00:41:11,035 --> 00:41:13,370 Thank you for everything you're doing on that. 684 00:41:13,471 --> 00:41:18,609 [Robyn] Oh, I'm happy to do it. This is my purpose. 685 00:41:19,276 --> 00:41:22,813 [Diane] Very good. Well, thank you so much, and yeah, maybe... [Robyn] Oh, thank you! 686 00:41:22,980 --> 00:41:26,750 [Diane] Maybe an exhibition in Ontario next time, and I will go, for sure. 687 00:41:26,750 --> 00:41:30,321 [Robyn] I will let you know for sure. (Laughs.) Okay, thank you. 688 00:41:30,321 --> 00:41:31,755 [Diane] Thank you, have a great day. 689 00:41:31,755 --> 00:41:33,557 [Robyn] You too, thanks. Bye-bye. 690 00:41:33,557 --> 00:41:34,758 [Diane] Bye. 691 00:41:35,159 --> 00:41:40,164 ♪ Closing theme music ♪