1 00:00:01,000 --> 00:00:06,006 ♪ Opening theme music ♪ 2 00:00:13,213 --> 00:00:17,550 [Diane:] Hello and welcome to this episode of ArtsAbly in Conversation. 3 00:00:17,550 --> 00:00:20,253 My name is Diane Kolin. 4 00:00:20,253 --> 00:00:25,291 I am a white woman with short brown hair, blue eyes and glasses, 5 00:00:25,291 --> 00:00:28,294 and today I wear a grey top. 6 00:00:28,294 --> 00:00:33,800 Behind me is a brown piano in a room with white walls. 7 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:38,638 This series presents artists, academics and project leaders 8 00:00:38,638 --> 00:00:41,074 who dedicate their time and energy 9 00:00:41,074 --> 00:00:45,945 to a better accessibility for people with disabilities in the arts. 10 00:00:45,945 --> 00:00:48,615 You can find more of these conversations 11 00:00:48,615 --> 00:00:51,551 on our website, artsably.com, 12 00:00:51,551 --> 00:00:57,157 which is spelled a-r-t-s-a-b-l-y dot com. 13 00:00:58,291 --> 00:01:03,296 ♪ Theme music ♪ 14 00:01:11,271 --> 00:01:14,841 Today, ArtsAbly is in conversation with seeley quest, 15 00:01:14,841 --> 00:01:19,579 a trans disabled environmentalist, arts and equity educator, 16 00:01:19,579 --> 00:01:21,981 living in Toronto in Canada. 17 00:01:21,981 --> 00:01:26,486 You can find the resources mentioned by seeley quest during this episode 18 00:01:26,486 --> 00:01:29,923 on ArtsAbly’s website, in the blog section. 19 00:01:30,523 --> 00:01:35,562 [seeley] Originally, sand comes from mountains and cliffs. 20 00:01:36,463 --> 00:01:42,068 So, erosion wears down rock faces, boulder pieces become pebbles. 21 00:01:42,635 --> 00:01:47,173 Rain, snow, wind and gravity move them 22 00:01:47,173 --> 00:01:51,845 into springs, into rivers, into lakes and oceans. 23 00:01:53,847 --> 00:01:57,884 In deserts, extreme day versus night temperature 24 00:01:57,884 --> 00:02:00,386 shifts stress rocks that crack. 25 00:02:01,054 --> 00:02:05,091 Wind gusts keep abrading pieces over millions of years. 26 00:02:05,992 --> 00:02:09,262 Sand as wind-scoured in deserts 27 00:02:09,262 --> 00:02:12,732 instead of water-scoured takes a different shape, 28 00:02:12,732 --> 00:02:15,201 a geometry that doesn’t stick together well, 29 00:02:15,201 --> 00:02:18,538 it just keeps slipping through our fingers. 30 00:02:19,772 --> 00:02:22,842 One place where a lot of sand goes 31 00:02:22,842 --> 00:02:24,844 is into glass. 32 00:02:25,578 --> 00:02:29,048 Silicon dioxide, or silica, 33 00:02:29,048 --> 00:02:31,885 is also a refining agent in 34 00:02:31,885 --> 00:02:33,186 wine, 35 00:02:33,186 --> 00:02:35,255 in cosmetics, 36 00:02:35,255 --> 00:02:38,992 it's in toothpaste, hairspray, 37 00:02:38,992 --> 00:02:41,861 powdered foods, in desiccant packets. 38 00:02:42,395 --> 00:02:45,965 Many plastics, construction alloys, 39 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:49,202 paints, tires. 40 00:02:50,270 --> 00:02:53,706 Sand also goes into sandboxes, 41 00:02:53,706 --> 00:02:56,843 aquariums, terrariums, sandbags. 42 00:02:58,511 --> 00:03:02,749 As well, silicon is used to make microchips 43 00:03:02,749 --> 00:03:04,751 for our tech devices. 44 00:03:06,819 --> 00:03:10,690 Crystals conduct electric charges, transmitting data. 45 00:03:10,690 --> 00:03:12,692 We might ask: 46 00:03:13,393 --> 00:03:18,031 what subtle vibrations echo now, between our microchipped devices, 47 00:03:18,031 --> 00:03:20,033 and sand kin elsewhere? 48 00:03:21,868 --> 00:03:25,505 [Diane] Welcome to this new episode of ArtsAbly in Conversation. 49 00:03:25,505 --> 00:03:28,074 Today, I am with seeley quest, 50 00:03:28,074 --> 00:03:32,712 a trans disabled environmentalist, arts and equity educator, 51 00:03:32,712 --> 00:03:35,515 living in Toronto, in Canada. 52 00:03:35,515 --> 00:03:36,916 Welcome, seeley! 53 00:03:37,884 --> 00:03:39,886 [seeley] Hi, happy to join. 54 00:03:40,019 --> 00:03:45,358 [Diane] Thank you for joining! And I love your background, you're gonna tell us a little bit about 55 00:03:45,358 --> 00:03:48,228 what is in your background right now, but 56 00:03:48,228 --> 00:03:54,033 would you mind presenting yourself and giving a visual description, maybe? 57 00:03:54,500 --> 00:03:55,802 [seeley] Sure. 58 00:03:55,802 --> 00:03:58,638 I'm a white 59 00:03:58,638 --> 00:04:01,574 androgynous trans person who has 60 00:04:01,574 --> 00:04:05,211 fairly short cut hair, that's 61 00:04:05,211 --> 00:04:08,848 a lot of silver color showing in it. 62 00:04:09,515 --> 00:04:13,653 I'm wearing a black t-shirt with a 63 00:04:13,653 --> 00:04:18,491 black polka dot patterns 64 00:04:18,491 --> 00:04:20,760 button shirt over it. 65 00:04:21,060 --> 00:04:24,030 I have some light facial hair 66 00:04:24,030 --> 00:04:27,967 right now, and I'm in a, 67 00:04:28,468 --> 00:04:30,470 a room that's… 68 00:04:30,503 --> 00:04:36,476 that's white, but has a view of some large 69 00:04:36,476 --> 00:04:41,381 banner art behind me, so I will 70 00:04:41,381 --> 00:04:45,752 move a moment so there's more of a full view of this image. 71 00:04:48,087 --> 00:04:50,990 So, it says, 72 00:04:50,990 --> 00:04:54,527 across this banner, which is black, 73 00:04:54,527 --> 00:04:58,865 in big capital letters that are 74 00:04:58,865 --> 00:05:01,034 very multicolorful: 75 00:05:01,034 --> 00:05:03,536 Access is love. 76 00:05:03,569 --> 00:05:05,571 It's fabric-based. 77 00:05:05,571 --> 00:05:07,740 So, uh… 78 00:05:07,740 --> 00:05:12,078 Something that's maybe not as easy to perceive from this view 79 00:05:12,078 --> 00:05:14,080 on the camera is 80 00:05:15,181 --> 00:05:22,755 it also has a tactile component, so under each of the letters 81 00:05:22,755 --> 00:05:27,727 as well, there's a series of buttons, which spell the words in braille. 82 00:05:29,762 --> 00:05:34,767 And I have no credit for this work, I just really admire it. 83 00:05:35,334 --> 00:05:43,109 My coloc and comrade Brennan Roy, who's also a disabled artist, 84 00:05:43,109 --> 00:05:47,480 is a lead creator on this piece that I believe 85 00:05:47,480 --> 00:05:49,615 was created a bit in a… 86 00:05:49,615 --> 00:05:51,984 as an ensemble project. 87 00:05:52,118 --> 00:05:54,120 As well, there's a view of 88 00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:58,825 a little bit of some of the green vine peeking out from a plant in 89 00:05:58,825 --> 00:06:00,293 the room here. 90 00:06:00,693 --> 00:06:02,495 [Diane] Thank you. 91 00:06:02,995 --> 00:06:11,204 I wanted to know a little bit about your background, your story, how did you get to work in art? 92 00:06:12,271 --> 00:06:17,877 [seeley] My parents both worked in arts and education, so 93 00:06:17,877 --> 00:06:21,180 I grew up 94 00:06:21,180 --> 00:06:23,416 with this from the beginning, really. 95 00:06:23,583 --> 00:06:26,152 Specifically, 96 00:06:26,986 --> 00:06:30,690 my mother in costume design, 97 00:06:30,690 --> 00:06:34,193 and my dad in 98 00:06:34,193 --> 00:06:38,431 music education, actually, voice. 99 00:06:38,631 --> 00:06:43,002 But, as well, he would 100 00:06:44,804 --> 00:06:50,176 teach, like, stage, voice, and diction classes in his 101 00:06:50,176 --> 00:06:53,713 educational role, this is with a, 102 00:06:54,747 --> 00:06:57,116 a small college in upstate New York. 103 00:06:59,786 --> 00:07:05,792 And would lead directing a musical theater production with the campus 104 00:07:05,792 --> 00:07:08,694 theater department every spring. 105 00:07:11,597 --> 00:07:15,368 My mother also was 106 00:07:15,368 --> 00:07:17,470 doing, like, 107 00:07:17,470 --> 00:07:20,740 kind of a summer stock, theater 108 00:07:20,740 --> 00:07:24,310 costume design outside of 109 00:07:24,310 --> 00:07:26,779 other campus-based 110 00:07:26,779 --> 00:07:29,882 theater department work as well. 111 00:07:32,385 --> 00:07:36,122 Reader's theater, kind of a, 112 00:07:36,122 --> 00:07:38,291 more of a dramatic 113 00:07:38,291 --> 00:07:42,161 reading, staged reading of scripts. 114 00:07:42,328 --> 00:07:48,301 That format is something that my dad did in a duo with a working partner 115 00:07:48,334 --> 00:07:50,336 for years as well. 116 00:07:51,971 --> 00:07:53,973 So… 117 00:07:54,674 --> 00:07:56,609 Yes, and even more people. 118 00:07:56,609 --> 00:07:58,611 My mother's second husband, and, 119 00:07:58,611 --> 00:08:01,380 working in stage design, and… 120 00:08:02,148 --> 00:08:07,720 you know, et cetera, et cetera. So, I was really raised by 121 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:11,524 people who, 122 00:08:11,524 --> 00:08:17,096 you know, committed seriously to arts as a life and a professional practice. 123 00:08:17,363 --> 00:08:22,401 And that enabled me to… 124 00:08:24,170 --> 00:08:30,142 to absorb and to just fundamentally understand that it's… 125 00:08:31,611 --> 00:08:34,614 that it makes sense as a life passion. 126 00:08:35,548 --> 00:08:41,687 [Diane] So did you start with theater, with music? Did you start writing? What did you do? 127 00:08:42,555 --> 00:08:45,925 [seeley] Some of all of it. You know, it was really… 128 00:08:46,759 --> 00:08:51,430 There was a lot of encouragement, I would say, that I just… 129 00:08:53,065 --> 00:08:58,471 was not particularly pushed, but just very… 130 00:09:00,306 --> 00:09:05,711 I was introduced to multiple disciplines, you know, all at the same time, 131 00:09:05,945 --> 00:09:10,616 and was celebrated in what I might want to explore. 132 00:09:11,751 --> 00:09:14,620 So, I think, 133 00:09:15,721 --> 00:09:17,723 creatively, I 134 00:09:17,723 --> 00:09:20,226 probably very first started with 135 00:09:23,195 --> 00:09:25,197 creating 136 00:09:26,365 --> 00:09:30,469 alternative fairy tales and folktales, you know, just like 137 00:09:30,469 --> 00:09:33,406 stories that were 138 00:09:34,006 --> 00:09:39,979 type of bedtime stories that I started enjoying early on as a child, and then 139 00:09:42,615 --> 00:09:44,717 starting to create some of my own, 140 00:09:44,717 --> 00:09:47,353 tell them to my younger sister. 141 00:09:48,854 --> 00:09:54,760 And a first kind of mentor figure who also really helped raise me a lot, 142 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:59,065 my dad's good friend and working partner in the reader's theater project, 143 00:10:01,834 --> 00:10:05,771 had me dictate, once she realized that I had - 144 00:10:05,771 --> 00:10:08,174 was starting to make up some of these stories, 145 00:10:08,174 --> 00:10:12,912 she had me dictate them to her, she typed them out and created a first little, 146 00:10:12,912 --> 00:10:14,647 very small chapbook. 147 00:10:14,647 --> 00:10:18,317 I was probably 7, 8 years old. 148 00:10:19,285 --> 00:10:21,420 So 149 00:10:21,420 --> 00:10:24,523 I think that was the first space 150 00:10:24,523 --> 00:10:26,759 of practice for me, but… 151 00:10:29,261 --> 00:10:32,531 Also, you know, encouraged in singing, 152 00:10:32,531 --> 00:10:36,268 learning dance, getting to start 153 00:10:36,268 --> 00:10:39,905 initial dance classes and training as a kid… 154 00:10:40,539 --> 00:10:41,607 Yeah. 155 00:10:42,041 --> 00:10:46,345 [Diane] So when you were getting older, you're like, okay, I have all these 156 00:10:46,345 --> 00:10:51,817 artistic practices around me. Did you go to art school, or did you decide to do something else? 157 00:10:53,219 --> 00:10:56,789 [seeley] I've been adjacent to a lot of people in art schools 158 00:10:56,789 --> 00:10:59,425 but I have not ended up 159 00:10:59,425 --> 00:11:01,427 directly in that space. 160 00:11:03,529 --> 00:11:05,531 I… 161 00:11:06,465 --> 00:11:10,536 I felt very keen on 162 00:11:11,203 --> 00:11:14,006 creative writing as a life pursuit. 163 00:11:14,006 --> 00:11:18,044 and, you know, I initially went into 164 00:11:18,044 --> 00:11:21,781 an undergraduate study focusing on 165 00:11:21,781 --> 00:11:24,517 English, you know, literature being… 166 00:11:25,684 --> 00:11:28,687 being a big focus point, 167 00:11:29,021 --> 00:11:31,023 and 168 00:11:31,023 --> 00:11:33,325 eventually was not 169 00:11:33,325 --> 00:11:36,162 satisfied with, 170 00:11:37,396 --> 00:11:40,866 the lack of 171 00:11:40,866 --> 00:11:43,569 attention to other politics 172 00:11:43,569 --> 00:11:47,406 that was offered in my… 173 00:11:48,574 --> 00:11:50,843 In my academic experience there. 174 00:11:51,911 --> 00:11:53,913 It took a while, but I 175 00:11:53,913 --> 00:11:58,584 changed major at a certain point to Women's Studies. 176 00:11:58,584 --> 00:12:03,789 I got politicized regarding feminism, that was very necessary. 177 00:12:04,490 --> 00:12:08,427 And that didn't end up 178 00:12:08,427 --> 00:12:10,896 quite the fit for me, 179 00:12:10,896 --> 00:12:14,633 either, but continuing in a certain 180 00:12:14,633 --> 00:12:17,269 arc, eventually I 181 00:12:17,269 --> 00:12:20,239 finished bachelor's 182 00:12:20,239 --> 00:12:22,308 with a dual focus, 183 00:12:22,842 --> 00:12:26,979 I had moved to the West Coast by this point, so I had a 184 00:12:27,513 --> 00:12:29,949 pretty radical 185 00:12:29,949 --> 00:12:33,753 small institution I transferred to in San Francisco, 186 00:12:33,753 --> 00:12:37,456 where I was able to finish a BA in 187 00:12:38,324 --> 00:12:41,026 gender studies and performance studies. 188 00:12:41,894 --> 00:12:45,397 Later on, coming into Canada, I 189 00:12:46,098 --> 00:12:50,169 eventually finished a communication studies graduate diploma 190 00:12:50,169 --> 00:12:51,737 in Montreal. 191 00:12:52,571 --> 00:12:55,574 And I've done quite a bit of other… 192 00:12:55,574 --> 00:13:00,012 you know, my own continuing education pursuits. I did 193 00:13:00,012 --> 00:13:05,384 conservatory classes with the Berkeley Rep School of Theatre and so forth, 194 00:13:05,384 --> 00:13:06,452 as well. 195 00:13:07,253 --> 00:13:11,624 [Diane] So when you were in San Francisco, that's… 196 00:13:11,624 --> 00:13:14,226 I know that you worked with 197 00:13:14,226 --> 00:13:18,230 a famous group over there called Sins Invalid. 198 00:13:18,497 --> 00:13:24,637 Can you tell us a little bit about how you got there, and what work you did with them? 199 00:13:25,037 --> 00:13:28,607 [seeley] Yes. I had been 200 00:13:28,607 --> 00:13:31,377 initiating my own 201 00:13:31,377 --> 00:13:33,345 performance projects 202 00:13:33,345 --> 00:13:35,347 since... 203 00:13:36,248 --> 00:13:39,418 2001, I'll say, 204 00:13:39,418 --> 00:13:41,220 so I… 205 00:13:41,487 --> 00:13:43,956 I'll back up a bit. I moved 206 00:13:43,956 --> 00:13:47,326 to the San Francisco Bay Area in 1998, 207 00:13:47,326 --> 00:13:49,828 and ended up 208 00:13:49,895 --> 00:13:53,432 finishing my last year of 209 00:13:53,432 --> 00:13:56,268 classwork for my BA 210 00:13:56,268 --> 00:13:58,437 2000-2001 211 00:13:58,971 --> 00:14:02,107 with the performance studies focus, it was 212 00:14:02,107 --> 00:14:07,513 a very fruitful time for me to create, like, 213 00:14:07,513 --> 00:14:13,619 both material for my classes, but also just 214 00:14:13,619 --> 00:14:15,654 everything was 215 00:14:15,654 --> 00:14:17,656 dynamically 216 00:14:18,591 --> 00:14:23,329 inspiring me at that point. I got connected with 217 00:14:23,329 --> 00:14:25,531 community folks 218 00:14:25,531 --> 00:14:28,133 in this kind of larger 219 00:14:28,133 --> 00:14:32,037 space I began living in in the East Bay area, 220 00:14:32,738 --> 00:14:35,074 and hosting a 221 00:14:36,141 --> 00:14:38,377 short-form 222 00:14:38,377 --> 00:14:41,714 mixed-medium 223 00:14:41,814 --> 00:14:43,682 cabaret 224 00:14:43,682 --> 00:14:49,355 type of presenting showcase once monthly over the course of a year. 225 00:14:49,755 --> 00:14:53,158 So that was 2001 and 2002. 226 00:14:55,494 --> 00:15:01,333 In 2002 as well, there was the first 227 00:15:02,468 --> 00:15:06,238 - so far only - International 228 00:15:06,238 --> 00:15:09,475 Queerness and Disability Conference 229 00:15:09,475 --> 00:15:12,478 organized that was hosted at 230 00:15:12,478 --> 00:15:15,214 San Francisco State University. 231 00:15:16,849 --> 00:15:19,652 I got to 232 00:15:19,652 --> 00:15:22,321 present a… 233 00:15:22,321 --> 00:15:24,923 like an excerpt of 234 00:15:24,923 --> 00:15:30,729 my sort of thesis solo performance project I had developed by that point, 235 00:15:30,729 --> 00:15:34,333 which was very much, 236 00:15:34,333 --> 00:15:36,402 you know, like a lot of… 237 00:15:36,402 --> 00:15:39,805 a lot of us in the community. It was 238 00:15:39,805 --> 00:15:42,675 essentially autobiographical 239 00:15:42,675 --> 00:15:45,110 solo performance work 240 00:15:45,110 --> 00:15:48,113 that dealt a lot with my… 241 00:15:49,181 --> 00:15:52,318 some of my experiences with disability, and 242 00:15:52,318 --> 00:15:55,220 the way I was understanding 243 00:15:55,220 --> 00:15:58,324 this in my history alongside… 244 00:15:58,324 --> 00:16:01,493 Like, shifting relationship with gender, as well. 245 00:16:02,394 --> 00:16:06,131 In any case, this is just to say, like, 246 00:16:06,131 --> 00:16:11,603 that occasion, the conference, which was 247 00:16:12,771 --> 00:16:17,943 very meaningful, and also, you know, fraught, had its challenges, 248 00:16:18,277 --> 00:16:22,781 but connected a lot of people 249 00:16:22,781 --> 00:16:26,018 to a certain extent at an international level, together. 250 00:16:26,018 --> 00:16:31,023 So, 2006, several years later, 251 00:16:31,023 --> 00:16:34,893 I saw on a local, 252 00:16:34,893 --> 00:16:37,663 you know, San Fran Bay Area, 253 00:16:37,663 --> 00:16:39,465 email listserv, 254 00:16:39,465 --> 00:16:42,601 a notice of 255 00:16:42,601 --> 00:16:46,271 the first proposal of a show 256 00:16:46,271 --> 00:16:48,741 that folks were organizing, 257 00:16:48,741 --> 00:16:51,410 called Sins Invalid, and calling for 258 00:16:51,410 --> 00:16:55,114 work from disabled artists 259 00:16:55,114 --> 00:16:57,583 that would engage with 260 00:16:57,583 --> 00:17:02,521 our relationships with sexuality and with embodiment 261 00:17:02,521 --> 00:17:05,090 in some kind of 262 00:17:05,090 --> 00:17:08,694 bold way. That was the initial invitation. 263 00:17:08,694 --> 00:17:12,164 And I was like… 264 00:17:13,565 --> 00:17:17,669 This calls me. Really, it felt, it felt very 265 00:17:17,669 --> 00:17:20,939 aligned with some work I'd already been, 266 00:17:20,939 --> 00:17:23,409 been sharing on my own. 267 00:17:24,143 --> 00:17:26,178 However, 268 00:17:26,178 --> 00:17:28,547 the timing didn't quite work out there. 269 00:17:28,547 --> 00:17:32,151 I had a conflict. I had actually committed to 270 00:17:32,151 --> 00:17:35,754 performing in a tour with another 271 00:17:35,754 --> 00:17:40,426 group of trans people, 272 00:17:40,426 --> 00:17:44,696 going and doing a little performance tour around the U.S. 273 00:17:44,696 --> 00:17:48,967 when the first Sins show was going to happen. So 274 00:17:50,035 --> 00:17:55,107 it was on my radar at that point, and I was very sad to miss the first year, and 275 00:17:55,107 --> 00:17:58,343 really thrilled to learn that 276 00:17:58,343 --> 00:18:02,881 they had gotten enough, you know, good, receptive 277 00:18:02,881 --> 00:18:05,484 response, the first time that 278 00:18:06,418 --> 00:18:10,055 they came around to the next year, 2007. 279 00:18:10,656 --> 00:18:15,894 We want to organize something further, who's interested, get in touch. 280 00:18:15,894 --> 00:18:17,896 So at that point, I did. 281 00:18:18,297 --> 00:18:22,968 I basically went to have 282 00:18:22,968 --> 00:18:27,539 a pretty low-pressure 283 00:18:27,539 --> 00:18:32,644 audition slash interview, you know, discussing with 284 00:18:32,644 --> 00:18:35,747 Leroy Moore and Patty Berne, 285 00:18:35,747 --> 00:18:39,551 the two initial organizers. 286 00:18:40,786 --> 00:18:43,322 They said: 287 00:18:43,322 --> 00:18:47,626 your idea, you know, it lines up. 288 00:18:47,626 --> 00:18:50,963 Let's put it together. 289 00:18:52,164 --> 00:18:54,533 It was 290 00:18:54,533 --> 00:18:56,635 truly 291 00:18:56,635 --> 00:19:00,305 profound, how 292 00:19:00,305 --> 00:19:03,842 meaningful the impact of 293 00:19:03,842 --> 00:19:08,313 putting forth this work on stage ended up 294 00:19:08,313 --> 00:19:11,250 being, not just for 295 00:19:11,250 --> 00:19:14,219 the artists involved, but for 296 00:19:14,219 --> 00:19:19,925 just how far the impact ended up going to audiences. 297 00:19:20,826 --> 00:19:25,430 So, yeah, I feel 298 00:19:25,430 --> 00:19:29,835 very personally lucky that I was able to, 299 00:19:29,835 --> 00:19:36,408 to a certain extent, be in the right place at the right time, be in, kind of, the cultural milieu, 300 00:19:36,408 --> 00:19:40,145 where people 301 00:19:40,546 --> 00:19:44,016 reached a critical point of motivation 302 00:19:44,016 --> 00:19:49,421 to bring work together and really 303 00:19:49,421 --> 00:19:52,658 elevate it as well, on the kind of 304 00:19:52,658 --> 00:19:55,327 international stage. 305 00:19:55,327 --> 00:19:58,163 Yeah, I've done some writing about... 306 00:19:58,163 --> 00:20:03,468 Like, some unique things about how Sins Invalid ended up emerging. 307 00:20:03,468 --> 00:20:09,107 as a larger project, in terms of its 308 00:20:09,107 --> 00:20:11,043 contributing factors, 309 00:20:11,043 --> 00:20:12,711 to how it's emerged. 310 00:20:12,711 --> 00:20:19,785 And I'm happy to share a link to the little bit of writing I've done on that so far. 311 00:20:19,785 --> 00:20:22,654 But yeah, I… 312 00:20:23,121 --> 00:20:27,125 For people who are not familiar, I really do encourage 313 00:20:27,125 --> 00:20:31,463 looking into the website, and 314 00:20:31,463 --> 00:20:33,765 other media that's available 315 00:20:33,765 --> 00:20:38,804 about projects the organization has ended up fostering so far. 316 00:20:38,804 --> 00:20:42,574 And I was, you know, 317 00:20:42,574 --> 00:20:46,812 kind of an early part, but only one part of the overall 318 00:20:46,812 --> 00:20:50,916 history of work at this point. I was, 319 00:20:50,916 --> 00:20:56,588 I would say, considered part of the core collective of contributing folks 320 00:20:56,588 --> 00:21:00,325 between 2007 and 2015. 321 00:21:00,325 --> 00:21:03,228 That's the year that I ended up moving 322 00:21:03,228 --> 00:21:06,164 out of California, from the Bay Area. 323 00:21:06,231 --> 00:21:11,403 [Diane] There is one very important piece of literature or text 324 00:21:11,403 --> 00:21:15,974 that is on the website of Sins Invalid. 325 00:21:15,974 --> 00:21:24,850 And it's actually highlighting 10 principles of Disability Justice. This notion of Disability Justice 326 00:21:24,850 --> 00:21:28,720 is really important and is used in a lot of… 327 00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:31,857 When you study Disability Studies today. 328 00:21:32,224 --> 00:21:36,061 I mean, I studied. Critical Disability Studies in Canada, 329 00:21:36,061 --> 00:21:40,532 but speaking with my colleagues in the US, it's the same. 330 00:21:40,532 --> 00:21:47,172 The 10 principles of Disability Justice, which you co-edited, right? You co-wrote this part? 331 00:21:47,939 --> 00:21:50,208 [seeley] Yeah, I was one of… 332 00:21:50,976 --> 00:21:54,813 a number of folks in a great collective of us, 333 00:21:54,813 --> 00:21:58,684 who did contribute to 334 00:21:59,751 --> 00:22:03,789 a collectively structured editing process. 335 00:22:05,123 --> 00:22:10,662 So, Aurora Levins Morales is one of the folks who 336 00:22:10,662 --> 00:22:14,132 came up, particularly with a lot of the language, 337 00:22:14,132 --> 00:22:17,002 and Patty Berne as well, and 338 00:22:17,102 --> 00:22:19,905 Leroy, you know, everybody had a part. 339 00:22:19,905 --> 00:22:22,107 Yes, so I was one of 340 00:22:22,107 --> 00:22:23,909 a number who 341 00:22:23,909 --> 00:22:27,079 worked through how we wanted to 342 00:22:27,079 --> 00:22:29,681 fine-tune the articulations. 343 00:22:29,681 --> 00:22:33,118 And I'm really… 344 00:22:33,118 --> 00:22:35,787 grateful for getting to be part of that process. 345 00:22:36,455 --> 00:22:41,793 [Diane] Disability Justice is a really important part of Disability Activism, 346 00:22:41,793 --> 00:22:44,463 and it's a really important part of 347 00:22:44,463 --> 00:22:51,603 what it is to be an artist, with the notion of these Disability Culture and Disability Activism. 348 00:22:51,603 --> 00:22:55,440 With the work you've done in disability justice, 349 00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:59,211 which is a part of what I consider disability activism, 350 00:22:59,211 --> 00:23:08,487 and which is a part of what is important for us as artists when we carry these stories and these narratives. 351 00:23:08,487 --> 00:23:11,823 What is it for you to be part 352 00:23:11,823 --> 00:23:15,360 of people who are 353 00:23:15,360 --> 00:23:21,133 considering disability justice and disability culture and disability activism 354 00:23:21,133 --> 00:23:23,668 as a core in their work? 355 00:23:24,269 --> 00:23:30,809 [seeley] I'm proud, and I recognize, again, that I'm lucky to have 356 00:23:31,410 --> 00:23:36,548 had the resources, and also had the motivation that I did 357 00:23:36,548 --> 00:23:42,888 to connect myself into 358 00:23:42,888 --> 00:23:45,891 the cultural space, the multiple spaces, 359 00:23:45,891 --> 00:23:48,894 in the San Francisco Bay Area that 360 00:23:48,894 --> 00:23:53,231 I don't think I would have been enabled otherwise to 361 00:23:53,799 --> 00:24:01,206 build my understanding of my own self 362 00:24:01,339 --> 00:24:05,443 and my lineage, even, 363 00:24:05,443 --> 00:24:09,981 my connections within larger disabled culture. 364 00:24:11,450 --> 00:24:13,451 That was a really… 365 00:24:13,451 --> 00:24:16,488 life impactful 366 00:24:16,488 --> 00:24:19,424 politicization for me 367 00:24:20,025 --> 00:24:22,627 early on in my living there. 368 00:24:22,627 --> 00:24:24,629 Absolutely. 369 00:24:24,963 --> 00:24:27,332 And the connection with 370 00:24:27,332 --> 00:24:30,502 space to explore this 371 00:24:30,502 --> 00:24:32,571 identity, 372 00:24:32,571 --> 00:24:35,740 dimensions of identity experience in arts. 373 00:24:36,675 --> 00:24:39,311 Because 374 00:24:39,311 --> 00:24:42,113 Disability Rights, 375 00:24:42,113 --> 00:24:44,850 the disability rights movement 376 00:24:44,850 --> 00:24:50,322 kind of, as it became initially framed out of the US, 377 00:24:51,356 --> 00:24:54,759 has done very critical work, and 378 00:24:54,759 --> 00:24:57,062 calling for disability rights 379 00:24:57,062 --> 00:25:00,499 has been a key foundational 380 00:25:00,499 --> 00:25:03,068 call, certainly. 381 00:25:03,068 --> 00:25:10,542 And, within broad disability 382 00:25:10,542 --> 00:25:13,178 focused spaces, it 383 00:25:13,245 --> 00:25:15,714 can still be too easy to, 384 00:25:15,714 --> 00:25:17,716 to neglect the 385 00:25:17,716 --> 00:25:19,284 experience of 386 00:25:19,284 --> 00:25:23,355 intersecting identities that many 387 00:25:23,355 --> 00:25:25,457 disabled community folks do have, 388 00:25:25,891 --> 00:25:30,629 that Leroy and Patty were really keen to 389 00:25:30,629 --> 00:25:33,031 to build an intervention. 390 00:25:33,031 --> 00:25:35,333 to that… 391 00:25:35,333 --> 00:25:39,671 the space of omission and repression 392 00:25:39,671 --> 00:25:41,339 of other experiences. 393 00:25:41,740 --> 00:25:45,043 I guess I would say what it means to me 394 00:25:45,043 --> 00:25:48,046 to be connected to this is, 395 00:25:48,547 --> 00:25:51,416 it's a space where I feel some, 396 00:25:51,549 --> 00:25:56,388 some pride, and definitely gratitude, and also really, 397 00:25:57,255 --> 00:25:59,324 the ongoing opportunity 398 00:25:59,324 --> 00:26:01,993 and the call to continue 399 00:26:02,360 --> 00:26:05,797 highlighting this, putting my own attention 400 00:26:06,064 --> 00:26:09,868 focused on these things, circulating that out to others 401 00:26:10,168 --> 00:26:12,170 to the extent I can. 402 00:26:12,370 --> 00:26:19,277 [Diane] And that work you carried from the West Coast to the East Coast at a certain point. 403 00:26:19,277 --> 00:26:21,913 And today, you continue this work. 404 00:26:21,913 --> 00:26:26,518 So when did you move Canada and to the East Coast? 405 00:26:26,651 --> 00:26:30,722 [seeley] Yeah, I moved back East in 2017. 406 00:26:30,722 --> 00:26:36,728 I left living in the Bay Area at the start of 2015, and 407 00:26:36,728 --> 00:26:41,266 at that time, moved up the West Coast a bit further, and 408 00:26:41,266 --> 00:26:43,935 still stayed in the U.S. a while, but… 409 00:26:44,703 --> 00:26:48,640 Eventually, 2017, I 410 00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:51,076 had found 411 00:26:52,210 --> 00:26:57,182 a graduate school program that called me to… 412 00:26:57,182 --> 00:26:59,517 I'd been thinking about going back to school, and 413 00:26:59,517 --> 00:27:04,089 I'd been visiting, making some more connections in Montreal over the past few years. 414 00:27:04,589 --> 00:27:10,862 So, I got into the Communication Studies program 415 00:27:10,862 --> 00:27:14,299 at Concordia University there, and 416 00:27:14,766 --> 00:27:20,472 ended up living in Montreal my first 5 plus years 417 00:27:20,472 --> 00:27:22,474 in Canada. 418 00:27:22,807 --> 00:27:29,014 Unfortunately, I found the French requirement a bit of a challenge to 419 00:27:29,014 --> 00:27:32,417 stay anchored in Quebec, and eventually 420 00:27:32,417 --> 00:27:37,422 went to go live in Halifax, Nova Scotia, for 421 00:27:37,422 --> 00:27:40,225 another over two year period, 422 00:27:40,225 --> 00:27:43,928 and most recently, I've come to live in 423 00:27:43,928 --> 00:27:46,598 Toronto now for just over a year. 424 00:27:48,733 --> 00:27:50,368 I would say my… 425 00:27:50,368 --> 00:27:54,239 my art projects have… 426 00:27:55,306 --> 00:27:59,911 Theater is certainly one big focus, but 427 00:27:59,911 --> 00:28:01,913 I've continued to 428 00:28:02,380 --> 00:28:06,251 have interdisciplinary interests and, 429 00:28:06,885 --> 00:28:10,255 Yeah, I've been pursuing 430 00:28:10,255 --> 00:28:14,359 projects at small and sometimes larger scales 431 00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:16,327 in all the places that I have, 432 00:28:16,327 --> 00:28:18,329 I've gone as an adult. 433 00:28:19,064 --> 00:28:21,733 [Diane] So let's talk about this intersectional work. 434 00:28:21,733 --> 00:28:23,301 So, I... 435 00:28:23,301 --> 00:28:28,073 What's the ecological part, the political part, the artistic part? 436 00:28:28,173 --> 00:28:32,177 How do you coordinate that in your work today? 437 00:28:35,246 --> 00:28:37,449 [seeley] I'm following my passions. 438 00:28:39,184 --> 00:28:43,521 I will add a little bit of a context note. 439 00:28:44,222 --> 00:28:46,458 Although, as I said, I 440 00:28:46,458 --> 00:28:49,360 grew up really immersed in, 441 00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:53,865 in arts across disciplines, and 442 00:28:54,766 --> 00:28:57,202 an education in them. 443 00:28:57,235 --> 00:28:59,370 As well, 444 00:29:00,338 --> 00:29:02,941 valuing the human 445 00:29:02,974 --> 00:29:05,376 and ecological experience. 446 00:29:05,376 --> 00:29:10,849 And really investing in 447 00:29:12,317 --> 00:29:14,752 environmental 448 00:29:14,752 --> 00:29:17,622 preservation and restoration 449 00:29:18,556 --> 00:29:21,359 was something that… 450 00:29:21,359 --> 00:29:25,330 that I absorbed early on in youth as well. 451 00:29:26,297 --> 00:29:31,269 I took a role in a student club in my high school that was called the Earth Club. 452 00:29:31,769 --> 00:29:36,775 My interest, you know, in adulthood 453 00:29:37,609 --> 00:29:42,747 has just kind of grown and followed different directions over time. 454 00:29:42,914 --> 00:29:44,916 So, 455 00:29:45,683 --> 00:29:49,687 multiple projects of mine at this point have 456 00:29:50,855 --> 00:29:53,858 an ecological focus. I really feel that 457 00:29:56,127 --> 00:29:59,631 arts is such a 458 00:29:59,631 --> 00:30:03,801 critical vehicle and tool 459 00:30:04,002 --> 00:30:06,938 for connecting with people 460 00:30:07,138 --> 00:30:10,441 at a level beyond just encountering 461 00:30:11,009 --> 00:30:13,811 the factual details 462 00:30:13,811 --> 00:30:15,980 of a circumstance. 463 00:30:15,980 --> 00:30:18,216 So, 464 00:30:18,216 --> 00:30:20,818 the aesthetic qualities 465 00:30:20,818 --> 00:30:24,689 that come with an artistic experience, the 466 00:30:24,689 --> 00:30:27,058 manner in which 467 00:30:27,058 --> 00:30:30,128 it can reach people at emotional levels. 468 00:30:31,696 --> 00:30:33,698 I have a, you know, a 469 00:30:33,698 --> 00:30:35,667 kind of a growing practice in, 470 00:30:36,301 --> 00:30:38,303 in education as well, 471 00:30:38,469 --> 00:30:39,771 in terms of 472 00:30:39,771 --> 00:30:41,539 having already led 473 00:30:41,539 --> 00:30:43,541 more than two dozen 474 00:30:43,541 --> 00:30:46,377 workshop sessions on, 475 00:30:47,645 --> 00:30:49,647 again, mostly, 476 00:30:49,948 --> 00:30:51,950 kind of arts-focused 477 00:30:52,517 --> 00:30:55,920 stuff, and a lot of that has been writing 478 00:30:56,588 --> 00:30:57,622 type 479 00:30:57,855 --> 00:30:59,857 workshops, but 480 00:31:00,992 --> 00:31:03,194 some of it has also been, 481 00:31:03,194 --> 00:31:04,996 you know, leading, like, 482 00:31:05,697 --> 00:31:08,933 basic, like, voice practice and kind of 483 00:31:08,933 --> 00:31:11,970 vocal exploration 101 workshop once upon a time, 484 00:31:11,970 --> 00:31:13,838 and just a lot that I learned from 485 00:31:13,838 --> 00:31:15,840 my dad teaching voice. 486 00:31:17,208 --> 00:31:19,477 I did some, you know, 487 00:31:19,811 --> 00:31:23,248 kind of theater games, you know, 488 00:31:23,314 --> 00:31:25,316 improv for actors 489 00:31:25,817 --> 00:31:29,053 workshop facilitating at a certain point. 490 00:31:30,888 --> 00:31:32,957 Other, you know, craft, 491 00:31:33,124 --> 00:31:35,126 like, how to… 492 00:31:35,126 --> 00:31:38,830 how to work with things in a tactile way, 493 00:31:38,830 --> 00:31:40,832 some of that as well, so… 494 00:31:41,733 --> 00:31:45,737 I'm just following wherever the interests end up 495 00:31:46,504 --> 00:31:48,473 really growing for me, but… 496 00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:54,012 I have on the plate at the moment a 497 00:31:55,680 --> 00:32:01,119 a plan to start kind of a short-form workshop, three sessions, 498 00:32:01,119 --> 00:32:03,154 that is focusing on 499 00:32:04,088 --> 00:32:06,858 solarpunk-oriented 500 00:32:07,258 --> 00:32:10,561 creative, speculative writing, specifically. 501 00:32:11,429 --> 00:32:14,265 Looking forward to seeing who, 502 00:32:14,265 --> 00:32:16,501 you know, gets 503 00:32:17,535 --> 00:32:19,971 engaged with this in Toronto. 504 00:32:20,571 --> 00:32:22,807 Also, 505 00:32:22,974 --> 00:32:24,976 I have, 506 00:32:25,977 --> 00:32:28,179 I'd say kind of a medium 507 00:32:28,179 --> 00:32:31,549 size project that is 508 00:32:31,649 --> 00:32:35,153 a multimedia installation-based, 509 00:32:35,153 --> 00:32:37,655 something that could fit well in 510 00:32:37,655 --> 00:32:41,426 an art gallery type of space, potentially, 511 00:32:41,492 --> 00:32:43,494 that has components of both 512 00:32:45,096 --> 00:32:49,033 three-dimensional, like, assemblage 513 00:32:49,033 --> 00:32:55,039 work, as well as a performance component that is interactive, 514 00:32:55,039 --> 00:32:59,944 with audiences, as well as educational workshop component, so… 515 00:33:00,912 --> 00:33:03,181 Oh, sorry, there's a fourth component, 516 00:33:03,181 --> 00:33:06,818 which I am motivated to 517 00:33:07,852 --> 00:33:09,854 eventually 518 00:33:10,388 --> 00:33:12,390 organize some kind of 519 00:33:12,890 --> 00:33:17,695 programming this material, this kind of multimedia 520 00:33:18,229 --> 00:33:20,732 piece of mine 521 00:33:20,732 --> 00:33:25,703 that is very ecologically focused in… 522 00:33:26,304 --> 00:33:29,140 I would really like to gather it alongside 523 00:33:29,140 --> 00:33:31,142 work of other 524 00:33:31,142 --> 00:33:33,478 disabled artists who are 525 00:33:33,478 --> 00:33:36,481 more in visual arts 526 00:33:36,581 --> 00:33:38,583 practice, potentially. 527 00:33:38,683 --> 00:33:40,351 Although, again, I have a 528 00:33:40,351 --> 00:33:43,054 performance component with mine, so, 529 00:33:43,588 --> 00:33:46,290 very open to, 530 00:33:46,624 --> 00:33:50,561 you know, finding collaborators who would want to share… 531 00:33:50,561 --> 00:33:53,531 work in different kind of mediums. I've also, 532 00:33:53,531 --> 00:33:55,533 you know, curated… 533 00:33:55,533 --> 00:33:58,403 I think in majority, live performance, 534 00:33:58,403 --> 00:34:00,838 kind of short-form showcase 535 00:34:00,838 --> 00:34:03,408 material before, but also, like, 536 00:34:04,275 --> 00:34:06,778 video film, etc., 537 00:34:07,645 --> 00:34:09,647 visual-audio work. 538 00:34:10,982 --> 00:34:15,953 Yeah, I have a whole other bit of focus and practice in 539 00:34:16,421 --> 00:34:21,359 media, and especially, like, film, film screening 540 00:34:21,793 --> 00:34:23,795 facilitating that I've done, so… 541 00:34:24,429 --> 00:34:26,964 In any case… 542 00:34:27,465 --> 00:34:31,936 Yeah, I would, you know, for that particular project, I would like 543 00:34:31,936 --> 00:34:33,938 eventually to 544 00:34:34,539 --> 00:34:39,377 organize a group show that is thematic, of… 545 00:34:39,977 --> 00:34:44,449 of other artists who identify as disabled who 546 00:34:44,449 --> 00:34:47,718 also are creating work and come up with a way 547 00:34:47,718 --> 00:34:52,323 for us to kind of share this together in ensemble that… 548 00:34:52,323 --> 00:34:56,828 that is ecologically attentive, and that 549 00:34:56,828 --> 00:34:59,864 specifically presents 550 00:34:59,864 --> 00:35:02,467 a more optimistic 551 00:35:02,467 --> 00:35:04,068 perspective. 552 00:35:04,769 --> 00:35:07,371 I do feel that 553 00:35:07,371 --> 00:35:09,373 space for 554 00:35:10,241 --> 00:35:13,778 representing eco-grief, you know. 555 00:35:13,778 --> 00:35:16,481 Or rage about 556 00:35:17,482 --> 00:35:22,053 ecological loss and and threats. 557 00:35:22,053 --> 00:35:23,955 This is all really valid, 558 00:35:23,955 --> 00:35:27,325 and space for this is needed, absolutely. 559 00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:31,462 Yet it's also just 560 00:35:31,462 --> 00:35:33,598 very important 561 00:35:34,499 --> 00:35:36,734 to me, and I think 562 00:35:36,734 --> 00:35:38,736 something that 563 00:35:39,137 --> 00:35:41,506 I haven't seen 564 00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:45,610 mobilized publicly 565 00:35:45,610 --> 00:35:47,745 as much yet. 566 00:35:48,546 --> 00:35:50,915 You know, a space for 567 00:35:50,915 --> 00:35:53,150 artists to reflect on 568 00:35:54,118 --> 00:35:57,121 what our disabled perspectives bring 569 00:35:57,121 --> 00:36:00,791 to a conversation about 570 00:36:00,925 --> 00:36:02,927 what we're looking… 571 00:36:03,494 --> 00:36:06,364 what we feel there is to look forward to 572 00:36:06,364 --> 00:36:10,868 in this space, what there is to be hopeful regarding what we can contribute 573 00:36:10,868 --> 00:36:13,838 in generative and productive ways 574 00:36:13,838 --> 00:36:16,607 in our work, 575 00:36:17,041 --> 00:36:20,011 to coexist well 576 00:36:20,011 --> 00:36:23,181 with a shifting ecology. 577 00:36:24,448 --> 00:36:27,618 And specifically, artists who are based in, 578 00:36:28,352 --> 00:36:30,421 in Canada; they're--I'm find, 579 00:36:30,421 --> 00:36:32,990 some I'm finding internationally who, 580 00:36:32,990 --> 00:36:37,028 whose work are kind of touching on this, and I'm interested to 581 00:36:37,028 --> 00:36:40,164 research a bit more, and maybe do some writing 582 00:36:40,164 --> 00:36:42,600 as a dramaturge, about 583 00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:45,002 looking at cases of 584 00:36:45,570 --> 00:36:49,340 some other artists kind of working in this space that I've found, but… 585 00:36:50,007 --> 00:36:52,443 Yeah, really looking forward to bringing in… 586 00:36:53,511 --> 00:36:57,915 In general, I would say just more collaborative 587 00:36:58,382 --> 00:37:01,953 projects, period. Like, that's… 588 00:37:02,620 --> 00:37:05,623 That's a big motivator for me at this time. 589 00:37:07,024 --> 00:37:12,230 And that are… and where there can be some elements of interactivity with audience. 590 00:37:14,098 --> 00:37:20,104 [Diane] You also have a project called 'Modeling.' Would you mind telling us about that? 591 00:37:20,204 --> 00:37:21,439 [seeley] Sure. 592 00:37:22,106 --> 00:37:25,076 So, 'Modeling' has been 593 00:37:25,977 --> 00:37:29,280 in development a good while now. I first 594 00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:30,648 had 595 00:37:31,215 --> 00:37:33,217 just the very seed 596 00:37:33,751 --> 00:37:35,419 ideas 597 00:37:35,419 --> 00:37:40,958 back in 2008, when I was active with Sins Invalid productions. 598 00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:45,329 And some ideas emerged through 599 00:37:45,329 --> 00:37:48,332 other peer artists I was connecting with at that time. 600 00:37:49,100 --> 00:37:51,102 'Modeling' is a, 601 00:37:51,802 --> 00:37:55,306 a theater piece 602 00:37:55,306 --> 00:37:59,877 featuring two characters, a model and a photographer, 603 00:37:59,877 --> 00:38:03,381 meeting to do a first photo shoot together. 604 00:38:03,648 --> 00:38:05,950 And… 605 00:38:06,284 --> 00:38:11,155 There is some experimentalness in the design, in that 606 00:38:11,522 --> 00:38:14,959 I am writing the script, I have about 607 00:38:16,193 --> 00:38:19,330 a full half hour 608 00:38:19,330 --> 00:38:22,533 scene set of material to this point, but 609 00:38:22,533 --> 00:38:26,604 I have a goal to finish this script. 610 00:38:27,738 --> 00:38:30,808 And potentially, this is 611 00:38:30,808 --> 00:38:34,178 part of the bit of interactivity and a 612 00:38:34,178 --> 00:38:38,049 factor of collaboration that feels very important to me 613 00:38:38,049 --> 00:38:39,250 at this point. 614 00:38:39,817 --> 00:38:43,821 I do know that consent amongst the, 615 00:38:44,188 --> 00:38:48,459 the performers involved is very 616 00:38:48,459 --> 00:38:50,628 central to this project. 617 00:38:51,195 --> 00:38:56,133 And so their interests, their input, and where the storyline goes 618 00:38:56,133 --> 00:38:58,569 is going to, you know, 619 00:38:58,569 --> 00:39:00,571 influence the ultimate decisions. 620 00:39:01,005 --> 00:39:02,606 So let me be clear. 621 00:39:02,606 --> 00:39:07,044 The characters, the model and photographer, 622 00:39:07,044 --> 00:39:09,113 both have different 623 00:39:09,113 --> 00:39:11,048 physical disabilities. 624 00:39:11,048 --> 00:39:13,451 And, so, 625 00:39:13,451 --> 00:39:17,421 the actors as well as, 626 00:39:17,421 --> 00:39:23,294 ideally, all the creative team members at a point of building a production, 627 00:39:24,295 --> 00:39:26,564 do experience disability as well. 628 00:39:27,898 --> 00:39:30,901 The characters are not being 629 00:39:30,901 --> 00:39:33,304 ridden with assigned genders. 630 00:39:33,304 --> 00:39:35,906 So, something that's 631 00:39:35,906 --> 00:39:39,110 important to me in the design is that... 632 00:39:40,211 --> 00:39:45,116 that there be a communication to audiences 633 00:39:45,316 --> 00:39:50,321 that there is also a rotating of cast. 634 00:39:50,321 --> 00:39:52,757 That there will be 635 00:39:53,457 --> 00:39:56,560 multiple people 636 00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:58,963 asked to 637 00:39:58,963 --> 00:40:03,434 take on these different roles of the model and photographer. 638 00:40:03,901 --> 00:40:06,270 These could be performers with 639 00:40:06,837 --> 00:40:08,839 different genders. 640 00:40:08,839 --> 00:40:11,809 They will certainly have different types of embodiments. 641 00:40:11,942 --> 00:40:16,614 And the whole point of this is to highlight the… 642 00:40:18,282 --> 00:40:20,684 how power dynamics 643 00:40:20,684 --> 00:40:22,720 may land differently. 644 00:40:23,187 --> 00:40:26,590 as, for example... 645 00:40:28,125 --> 00:40:30,461 Let's say someone who 646 00:40:30,461 --> 00:40:32,463 identifies as female 647 00:40:32,963 --> 00:40:35,499 playing the role of the photographer 648 00:40:35,499 --> 00:40:38,569 one night, who is 649 00:40:39,870 --> 00:40:41,939 negotiating some… 650 00:40:42,706 --> 00:40:45,443 spicy dynamics with the, 651 00:40:45,643 --> 00:40:49,246 the character of the model. 652 00:40:50,281 --> 00:40:52,283 If that model is, 653 00:40:53,117 --> 00:40:57,121 on a particular occasion, played by someone 654 00:40:57,121 --> 00:40:59,089 presenting as male, 655 00:41:00,791 --> 00:41:05,463 the way the material, the engagement feels, 656 00:41:05,463 --> 00:41:07,364 is simply going to be different. 657 00:41:07,364 --> 00:41:09,967 than if it's 658 00:41:10,568 --> 00:41:13,137 two people identifying as female 659 00:41:13,137 --> 00:41:15,139 who are in these, 660 00:41:15,573 --> 00:41:17,575 these power dynamics. 661 00:41:18,342 --> 00:41:20,778 You know, there could be 662 00:41:21,445 --> 00:41:23,347 some element of crip joy 663 00:41:23,347 --> 00:41:27,284 in the production of this work, 664 00:41:27,718 --> 00:41:29,954 a space of 665 00:41:29,954 --> 00:41:32,489 very active and exploratory 666 00:41:33,457 --> 00:41:36,760 playfulness amongst the 667 00:41:37,761 --> 00:41:42,233 people getting into these roles, 668 00:41:42,399 --> 00:41:45,436 and what that could impart for audiences, too. 669 00:41:45,436 --> 00:41:49,840 Hopefully some joy, and hopefully some real provocation as well, because 670 00:41:50,274 --> 00:41:52,710 my point 671 00:41:52,710 --> 00:41:54,712 also is to 672 00:41:54,879 --> 00:41:57,982 bring attention to not just 673 00:41:58,415 --> 00:42:00,584 an erotic potential 674 00:42:01,652 --> 00:42:03,654 of… of… 675 00:42:03,654 --> 00:42:07,157 you know, very enticing energy that could 676 00:42:07,758 --> 00:42:09,760 potentially develop between 677 00:42:10,728 --> 00:42:12,596 two artists who are 678 00:42:12,963 --> 00:42:18,168 doing a shoot for a first time, and doing very intimate type of 679 00:42:18,168 --> 00:42:23,340 work, you know, like, featuring the body and portraiture. 680 00:42:23,407 --> 00:42:25,409 But to do this as 681 00:42:25,643 --> 00:42:30,614 people who also, you know, experience physical disability, there's a lot of 682 00:42:31,248 --> 00:42:33,784 potential for, 683 00:42:34,051 --> 00:42:37,888 like, edgy, edgy energy to be kind of sparked off. 684 00:42:38,222 --> 00:42:42,293 And a lot of that could be in, I think, really good... 685 00:42:43,427 --> 00:42:45,930 let's say hot directions. 686 00:42:45,930 --> 00:42:50,634 And at the same time, I feel like it's really important to be 687 00:42:51,001 --> 00:42:53,470 putting forth work that, 688 00:42:53,871 --> 00:42:57,808 you know, gets into nuance, gets into some more complicated space 689 00:42:57,808 --> 00:43:00,844 about ways that 690 00:43:01,579 --> 00:43:05,683 even people who share a certain extent of a peer 691 00:43:06,250 --> 00:43:09,320 experience, a relationship, 692 00:43:09,954 --> 00:43:11,956 in terms of, they both experienced 693 00:43:11,956 --> 00:43:14,592 stigmatizing as disabled people. 694 00:43:14,792 --> 00:43:17,728 that it's still possible that 695 00:43:18,762 --> 00:43:23,767 sometimes one or both of them in this kind of situation might behave badly. 696 00:43:24,535 --> 00:43:26,070 Maybe not everybody is, like, 697 00:43:26,070 --> 00:43:29,740 recognizing where to respect consent. 698 00:43:29,807 --> 00:43:31,809 you know, 100% of the time. 699 00:43:32,610 --> 00:43:35,079 I think bringing in 700 00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:41,418 the realism of our imperfections, and even the, 701 00:43:41,919 --> 00:43:46,490 you know, kind of invoking the edge of discomfort of 702 00:43:47,224 --> 00:43:49,960 needing to face that 703 00:43:49,960 --> 00:43:53,097 breaching of boundaries and consent, 704 00:43:53,097 --> 00:43:57,835 you know, it happens, it really can happen, 705 00:43:58,435 --> 00:44:00,270 more than we want to admit. 706 00:44:00,270 --> 00:44:05,743 And, you know, how can repair be navigated, potentially, 707 00:44:05,743 --> 00:44:07,344 in these contexts, 708 00:44:07,344 --> 00:44:08,979 when there's 709 00:44:09,747 --> 00:44:14,251 multiple feelings and factors at stake. 710 00:44:14,585 --> 00:44:15,652 So... 711 00:44:15,953 --> 00:44:20,157 I could go on, but hopefully that gives a bit of a nugget of 712 00:44:20,357 --> 00:44:22,393 this being a… 713 00:44:22,393 --> 00:44:26,964 I feel quite juicy project that I hope could 714 00:44:26,964 --> 00:44:31,969 get to a debut opportunity, and really… 715 00:44:32,770 --> 00:44:35,839 Yeah, hold some meaningful impact for the, 716 00:44:35,839 --> 00:44:38,409 the disabled community and our, 717 00:44:39,043 --> 00:44:40,878 our peer audiences. 718 00:44:41,278 --> 00:44:47,885 [Diane] Yeah, it's, it's really interesting because of course, this also triggers 719 00:44:48,519 --> 00:44:53,524 some conversations about identity and about 720 00:44:53,957 --> 00:44:57,928 the way we see ourselves and the way others see 721 00:44:59,530 --> 00:45:02,733 our identities, whatever the identity is. 722 00:45:03,067 --> 00:45:09,940 So, I think that your project, it has really a potential of also engaging 723 00:45:09,940 --> 00:45:13,977 with the audience before or after, probably after, 724 00:45:14,244 --> 00:45:17,848 so that they can reflect themselves. 725 00:45:17,848 --> 00:45:22,753 And so that they can tell about 726 00:45:22,753 --> 00:45:25,956 their own experience of these narratives. 727 00:45:26,890 --> 00:45:28,726 [seeley] Yeah, absolutely. 728 00:45:28,726 --> 00:45:32,896 I have spent a while imagining 729 00:45:33,897 --> 00:45:35,899 ways to… 730 00:45:36,467 --> 00:45:38,469 to… 731 00:45:39,169 --> 00:45:42,706 bring out audience 732 00:45:42,906 --> 00:45:45,175 input, questions, 733 00:45:45,309 --> 00:45:48,178 and to potentially 734 00:45:48,812 --> 00:45:50,814 work on 735 00:45:51,014 --> 00:45:54,351 development opportunities with 736 00:45:55,486 --> 00:45:59,156 disabled people in a given city, a given 737 00:45:59,990 --> 00:46:01,391 municipal region, 738 00:46:01,792 --> 00:46:04,228 who may not have, 739 00:46:05,129 --> 00:46:07,231 maybe professional level 740 00:46:07,231 --> 00:46:09,233 performance-based training, 741 00:46:10,467 --> 00:46:14,505 or script writing, but whose lived experience 742 00:46:14,638 --> 00:46:16,273 is rich, and is, 743 00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:20,177 you know, something that would enable them to, 744 00:46:21,478 --> 00:46:24,915 you know, consider, maybe like a play-shop 745 00:46:25,082 --> 00:46:29,686 more than a workshop kind of space, if that makes sense. I really... 746 00:46:29,786 --> 00:46:33,590 Again, this is where I've been thinking about, well, is it something that will eventually 747 00:46:34,057 --> 00:46:36,059 would ultimately work 748 00:46:36,059 --> 00:46:38,262 well, to be 749 00:46:38,262 --> 00:46:40,197 devised by, 750 00:46:40,297 --> 00:46:43,867 you know, again, maybe non-professional actor 751 00:46:44,268 --> 00:46:48,672 community members. I think there could be different versions, 752 00:46:49,173 --> 00:46:51,175 where different… 753 00:46:51,375 --> 00:46:55,078 different community groups will kind of take the narrative 754 00:46:55,546 --> 00:46:57,981 to a direction of their own choice. 755 00:46:58,415 --> 00:47:00,417 You know. And that that is… 756 00:47:01,185 --> 00:47:06,924 That has value, right, to kind of take up the premise idea, and 757 00:47:07,357 --> 00:47:09,359 see, like, 758 00:47:09,359 --> 00:47:14,231 which it could generate for them, but exactly. I think there's... 759 00:47:15,632 --> 00:47:20,270 Probably there will eventually be a published version of this script, 760 00:47:20,270 --> 00:47:24,007 but I very much want to invite people to, 761 00:47:24,675 --> 00:47:26,643 to take up discussing 762 00:47:26,743 --> 00:47:29,479 what it means for them, and to have that 763 00:47:29,847 --> 00:47:34,551 be part of some community conversations, hopefully for, 764 00:47:35,752 --> 00:47:39,723 perhaps important social change 765 00:47:40,457 --> 00:47:42,459 regarding our, 766 00:47:42,726 --> 00:47:46,730 our liberties and our obligations 767 00:47:47,531 --> 00:47:53,871 towards, you know, respecting our space of sexuality and 768 00:47:55,105 --> 00:47:58,775 kinship and care in different ways with each other. 769 00:48:00,043 --> 00:48:05,616 [Diane] Well, these are fascinating projects, so yeah, I wish you all the best in these. 770 00:48:05,916 --> 00:48:10,887 And I wanted to end this interview by asking you a question about 771 00:48:11,021 --> 00:48:14,491 people who have counted in your career, people who have 772 00:48:14,891 --> 00:48:21,231 motivated some parts of your work. If you have one or two people to think of, 773 00:48:21,231 --> 00:48:23,233 who would it be and why? 774 00:48:24,201 --> 00:48:28,772 [seeley] Thank you. I'll just go ahead to say that 775 00:48:29,139 --> 00:48:33,477 Patty Berne, specifically, is who really 776 00:48:33,477 --> 00:48:35,746 came first in my mind 777 00:48:36,380 --> 00:48:39,049 for a motivator in 778 00:48:39,916 --> 00:48:42,452 disability and arts 779 00:48:42,452 --> 00:48:44,454 focused work. 780 00:48:44,855 --> 00:48:48,625 Patty's amount of work 781 00:48:49,293 --> 00:48:51,461 like, behind the scenes, 782 00:48:51,895 --> 00:48:55,165 both for kind of Sins Invalid's 783 00:48:55,198 --> 00:48:57,200 project as a whole, 784 00:48:57,734 --> 00:49:04,708 is truly outstanding, but also, in particular, her 785 00:49:04,708 --> 00:49:06,710 really long-term 786 00:49:07,611 --> 00:49:09,346 movement building, 787 00:49:09,613 --> 00:49:15,752 cross-issue community coalition building and connecting work 788 00:49:15,986 --> 00:49:18,655 I think is still not 789 00:49:19,389 --> 00:49:24,661 recognized that fully by a lot of folks 790 00:49:24,661 --> 00:49:27,631 who are only just 791 00:49:27,898 --> 00:49:29,900 familiar with 792 00:49:30,167 --> 00:49:33,170 Sins as kind of this arts-focused 793 00:49:33,637 --> 00:49:35,339 organizational space. 794 00:49:36,974 --> 00:49:39,710 I think what I want to say about that is… 795 00:49:40,077 --> 00:49:42,079 Patty's 796 00:49:42,179 --> 00:49:44,181 work to 797 00:49:44,348 --> 00:49:47,017 reach out, figure out how to just 798 00:49:47,117 --> 00:49:50,354 make a phone call, send an email, 799 00:49:50,354 --> 00:49:56,259 to people, you know, across the U.S. and internationally, 800 00:49:56,259 --> 00:49:58,996 that they identified 801 00:49:58,996 --> 00:50:00,964 could be 802 00:50:01,865 --> 00:50:04,001 partners in some way, 803 00:50:04,234 --> 00:50:06,069 toward expanding 804 00:50:06,069 --> 00:50:08,839 intersectional, political 805 00:50:08,839 --> 00:50:11,274 education and movement. 806 00:50:11,475 --> 00:50:14,678 That's truly foundational to, 807 00:50:15,112 --> 00:50:17,247 to how far 808 00:50:17,948 --> 00:50:21,118 Sins Invalid, and also 809 00:50:21,585 --> 00:50:23,587 many other 810 00:50:23,787 --> 00:50:25,789 political networks 811 00:50:25,789 --> 00:50:27,991 have ended up 812 00:50:27,991 --> 00:50:31,495 going, you know, just like the amount of work 813 00:50:31,695 --> 00:50:33,697 that she contributed 814 00:50:34,064 --> 00:50:37,067 in that way, and so... 815 00:50:37,134 --> 00:50:39,403 So, Patty's, their modeling. 816 00:50:39,770 --> 00:50:43,173 For me, and many others. 817 00:50:44,674 --> 00:50:47,677 Yeah. Lifelong impactful. 818 00:50:48,612 --> 00:50:56,620 [Diane] Well, thank you so much, and we will publish some of the sources and resources 819 00:50:56,753 --> 00:51:00,957 that you mentioned today, so that people can have a look at your work and. 820 00:51:00,957 --> 00:51:04,127 have a look at your website, your projects. 821 00:51:04,127 --> 00:51:10,167 And yeah, again, I wish you all the best for everything that you're accomplishing right now, which 822 00:51:10,167 --> 00:51:12,636 are fascinating projects. 823 00:51:12,636 --> 00:51:15,605 Thank you so much for being here today with us. 824 00:51:16,139 --> 00:51:17,874 [seeley] Merci beaucoup Diane. 825 00:51:17,874 --> 00:51:23,580 [Diane] Thank you. And, yeah, have a good one, and maybe see you around on the Toronto scene. 826 00:51:25,749 --> 00:51:27,083 Bye! 827 00:51:29,686 --> 00:51:34,691 ♪ Closing theme music ♪