1 00:00:01,000 --> 00:00:06,006 ♪ Opening theme music ♪ 2 00:00:12,846 --> 00:00:17,117 [Diane:] Hello, and welcome to this episode of ArtsAbly in Conversation. 3 00:00:17,117 --> 00:00:19,419 My name is Diane Kolin. 4 00:00:19,419 --> 00:00:23,990 This series presents artists, academics, and project leaders 5 00:00:23,990 --> 00:00:31,231 who dedicate their time and energy to a better accessibility for people with disabilities in the arts. 6 00:00:31,231 --> 00:00:36,736 You can find more of these conversations on our website, artsably.com, 7 00:00:36,736 --> 00:00:42,075 which is spelled A-R-T-S-A-B-L-Y dot com. 8 00:00:42,876 --> 00:00:47,881 ♪ Theme music ♪ 9 00:00:54,754 --> 00:00:59,426 [Diane:] Today, ArtsAbly is in conversation with Dr. Cynthia George, 10 00:00:59,426 --> 00:01:02,295 aka Dr. CynCorrigible, 11 00:01:02,295 --> 00:01:09,002 an award-winning artist, educator, and program evaluator living in Nashville, Tennessee. 12 00:01:09,002 --> 00:01:13,506 You can find the resources mentioned by Dr. Cyn during this episode 13 00:01:13,506 --> 00:01:16,943 on ArtsAbly's website, in the blog section. 14 00:01:17,710 --> 00:01:23,716 ♪ Punk music - Drums and bass beat ♪ 15 00:01:32,926 --> 00:01:34,961 Tradition and authority, 16 00:01:34,961 --> 00:01:37,197 toxic roots in the family tree, 17 00:01:37,197 --> 00:01:39,199 no one learns no one grows 18 00:01:39,199 --> 00:01:41,000 this is how stupid goes. 19 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:42,902 Cruel’s the same but its much meaner 20 00:01:42,902 --> 00:01:44,904 selfish greedy nosy schemer 21 00:01:44,904 --> 00:01:46,773 personal gain make that money, 22 00:01:46,773 --> 00:01:50,477 shirk that work lick that honey. 23 00:01:54,647 --> 00:01:57,817 Oh, I don’t know why you do the things you do, 24 00:01:57,817 --> 00:02:00,920 stupid or cruel baby im no fool. 25 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:04,023 I could care less about your motivation 26 00:02:04,023 --> 00:02:07,227 your license to practice is on probation. 27 00:02:07,227 --> 00:02:10,296 I don’t know why you do the things you do 28 00:02:10,296 --> 00:02:13,399 stupid or cruel baby im no fool. 29 00:02:13,399 --> 00:02:16,402 I don’t know why you do the things you do, 30 00:02:16,402 --> 00:02:20,807 stupid or cruel baby im no fool. 31 00:02:35,221 --> 00:02:37,257 Tradition and authority, 32 00:02:37,257 --> 00:02:39,492 toxic roots in the family tree, 33 00:02:39,492 --> 00:02:41,494 no one learns no one grows 34 00:02:41,494 --> 00:02:43,296 this is how stupid goes. 35 00:02:43,296 --> 00:02:45,198 Cruel’s the same but its much meaner 36 00:02:45,198 --> 00:02:47,200 selfish greedy nosy schemer 37 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:49,068 personal gain make that money, 38 00:02:49,068 --> 00:02:52,772 shirk that work lick that honey. 39 00:02:57,143 --> 00:03:00,313 Oh, I don’t know why you do the things you do, 40 00:03:00,313 --> 00:03:03,416 stupid or cruel baby im no fool. 41 00:03:03,416 --> 00:03:06,519 I could care less about your motivation 42 00:03:06,519 --> 00:03:09,722 let a jury sort it out in litigation. 43 00:03:09,722 --> 00:03:12,792 I don’t know why you do the things you do 44 00:03:12,792 --> 00:03:15,895 stupid or cruel baby im no fool. 45 00:03:15,895 --> 00:03:18,898 I don’t know why you do the things you do, 46 00:03:18,898 --> 00:03:22,268 stupid or cruel baby im no fool. 47 00:03:22,268 --> 00:03:25,338 I don’t know why you do the things you do, 48 00:03:25,338 --> 00:03:30,443 stupid or cruel baby im no fool. 49 00:03:47,527 --> 00:03:49,529 Misfeasance malfeasance 50 00:03:49,529 --> 00:03:51,531 misfeasance malfeasance 51 00:03:51,531 --> 00:03:53,533 misfeasance malfeasance, 52 00:03:53,533 --> 00:03:55,368 what is this deviance? 53 00:03:55,368 --> 00:03:57,370 is this part of human nature? 54 00:03:57,370 --> 00:03:59,372 should I tell the legislature? 55 00:03:59,372 --> 00:04:01,374 this level of incompetence 56 00:04:01,374 --> 00:04:03,376 cannot give you confidence. 57 00:04:03,376 --> 00:04:05,378 it defies all common sense 58 00:04:05,378 --> 00:04:07,380 misfeasance malfeasance 59 00:04:07,380 --> 00:04:09,616 misfeasance malfeasance 60 00:04:09,616 --> 00:04:12,018 misfeasance malfeasance 61 00:04:12,018 --> 00:04:14,287 misfeasance malfeasance 62 00:04:14,287 --> 00:04:17,824 misfeasance malfeasance. 63 00:04:18,424 --> 00:04:20,426 ♪ End of the excerpt. ♪ 64 00:04:21,361 --> 00:04:24,831 [Diane:] Welcome to this new episode of ArtsAbly in Conversation. 65 00:04:24,831 --> 00:04:31,004 Today, I am with Dr. Cynthia George, aka Dr. CynCorrigible, 66 00:04:31,004 --> 00:04:37,777 who is an award-winning artist, educator, and a program evaluator living in Nashville, Tennessee. 67 00:04:37,777 --> 00:04:39,145 Welcome, Cynthia. 68 00:04:39,145 --> 00:04:43,349 [Cynthia:] Hello, thank you for having me, Diane. I'm happy to be here. 69 00:04:43,349 --> 00:04:47,186 [Diane:] Well, thank you for accepting to share your story and work with us. 70 00:04:47,186 --> 00:04:49,789 It's very, very exciting. 71 00:04:50,089 --> 00:04:54,494 I always start these episodes by asking about the person, 72 00:04:54,494 --> 00:04:58,064 so who are you, and what is your background, what made you 73 00:04:58,064 --> 00:05:00,800 start music, and things like that. 74 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:04,537 [Cynthia:] Yes, well, I am 6 foot tall, 75 00:05:04,537 --> 00:05:08,841 and I've got a long blonde mohawk, and I call it my prohawk, 76 00:05:08,841 --> 00:05:12,545 and actually, I kind of shaved the mohawk 77 00:05:12,545 --> 00:05:16,249 as I was becoming a punk singer. 78 00:05:16,249 --> 00:05:19,052 Um, I was actually… I'm from Nashville, Tennessee, 79 00:05:19,052 --> 00:05:22,822 which is, of course, is Music City, but I never really wanted 80 00:05:22,822 --> 00:05:25,892 to be a musician while I was living here. 81 00:05:25,892 --> 00:05:29,395 It was actually in my PhD program in Richmond, Virginia, 82 00:05:29,395 --> 00:05:34,600 and I was taking all of these classes, and I was kind of 83 00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:39,272 turning my curriculum into punk songs, and so I was just writing these lyrics 84 00:05:39,272 --> 00:05:45,111 about the education that I was receiving. I really had no intention of singing them, 85 00:05:45,111 --> 00:05:50,817 but I did shave the mohawk off because it kind of fit the theme and the mood, you know, and 86 00:05:50,817 --> 00:05:55,355 every time I looked in the mirror, I wanted to kind of remember who I was, 87 00:05:55,355 --> 00:05:59,692 and not allow the PhD process to change 88 00:05:59,692 --> 00:06:03,629 the fundamental parts of who I was, right? Because it can do that. 89 00:06:03,629 --> 00:06:08,067 And then a friend of mine saw the songs I was writing, 90 00:06:08,067 --> 00:06:11,771 and he was like, Cyn, this needs to be a record, you know? 91 00:06:11,771 --> 00:06:14,607 And, you know, I don't play any instruments, 92 00:06:14,607 --> 00:06:19,212 And I've never really had any formal music education, I've just grown up in Nashville, 93 00:06:19,212 --> 00:06:23,483 sort of steeped in the culture. Most of my friends are musicians. 94 00:06:23,483 --> 00:06:27,553 Everyone here is in a band, you know, and so I've just kind of 95 00:06:27,553 --> 00:06:31,691 fallen into that. But now that I am doing it, 96 00:06:31,691 --> 00:06:35,161 I love it, and it feels very purposeful. 97 00:06:35,161 --> 00:06:39,699 I don't know how else I would appropriately communicate my message 98 00:06:39,699 --> 00:06:43,636 without music and these punk songs, and so 99 00:06:43,636 --> 00:06:47,039 I'm very happy that I stumbled into that. 100 00:06:47,039 --> 00:06:53,079 and so now, um, Graduates Rise, I formed in, uh, I guess it was 2015, 101 00:06:53,079 --> 00:06:58,418 and actually recorded my first album called Math is Hard. 102 00:06:58,418 --> 00:07:05,258 I was downstairs typing my dissertation, and my band was upstairs recording the music, 103 00:07:05,258 --> 00:07:09,195 and I released the album on the same day I defended my dissertation 104 00:07:09,195 --> 00:07:14,567 and gave copies to all of my committee, and then I actually submitted it to 105 00:07:14,567 --> 00:07:17,870 the working class studies association for peer review, 106 00:07:17,870 --> 00:07:20,506 and it was received, and I went and 107 00:07:20,506 --> 00:07:24,210 performed at their conference, like, in a lecture hall, 108 00:07:24,210 --> 00:07:30,183 which was super fun, and, um, you know, and then it just kind of spiraled from there 109 00:07:30,183 --> 00:07:34,587 where now, you know, I've released a second album, and I'm 110 00:07:34,587 --> 00:07:39,892 working on songs with guys in LA, and, you know, just doing all sorts of fun stuff, 111 00:07:39,892 --> 00:07:41,894 podcasts with you, and 112 00:07:41,894 --> 00:07:45,031 Um, you know, just taking off, 113 00:07:45,031 --> 00:07:48,334 Having a great time, uh, creating art, 114 00:07:48,334 --> 00:07:51,871 and it was just a part of myself that had been missing. 115 00:07:51,871 --> 00:07:59,212 I grew up poor, and we didn't have a lot of money for art supplies. 116 00:07:59,212 --> 00:08:06,052 I also worked a lot, starting as young as age 9, I was working outside the home for money. 117 00:08:06,052 --> 00:08:10,356 And I didn't have a lot of time to think about the arts, 118 00:08:10,356 --> 00:08:15,828 it really took me, you know, into adulthood before I realized 119 00:08:15,828 --> 00:08:20,132 that that was just a fundamental part of being human 120 00:08:20,132 --> 00:08:26,172 and I needed that, and now that I have it, I could never let it go. 121 00:08:26,539 --> 00:08:30,843 [Diane:] But although, it's funny because you grew up in Nashville, 122 00:08:30,843 --> 00:08:33,779 where there is music everywhere, right? 123 00:08:33,779 --> 00:08:34,947 [Cynthia:] Yes. 124 00:08:34,947 --> 00:08:38,951 [Diane:] Did at a certain time when you were growing up, 125 00:08:38,951 --> 00:08:43,422 did you get in touch with some musicians 126 00:08:43,422 --> 00:08:47,560 or not at all, it really started when you were in grad studies? 127 00:08:47,627 --> 00:08:52,298 [Cynthia:] Well, I… being here, like, I… I worked at Fan Fair. 128 00:08:52,298 --> 00:08:57,503 You know, like, I would sell t-shirts, and so I would interact with musicians and, 129 00:08:57,503 --> 00:09:02,942 and then all of my friends, like, one of my little high school boyfriends was a musician, you know, 130 00:09:02,942 --> 00:09:05,745 and he would make songs on a little 8-track tape, and 131 00:09:05,745 --> 00:09:10,349 You know, like, most of my best friends were musicians, and so I was always around it, 132 00:09:10,349 --> 00:09:14,120 but I just never thought it was something that I was gonna do. 133 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:18,157 It was… I never felt talented enough, you know, and, 134 00:09:18,157 --> 00:09:24,497 and then in… Nashville's also very music industry heavy, and so there is 135 00:09:24,497 --> 00:09:31,370 a lot of, um, the sort of corporatization of music, and not everywhere, 136 00:09:31,370 --> 00:09:37,043 but on the surface, I was really avoiding that. You know, I did not want to be part of music business. 137 00:09:37,043 --> 00:09:41,981 And, just my soul rejected it, you know? 138 00:09:41,981 --> 00:09:47,586 But in Richmond, Virginia, it is a total punk rock city, and so there, 139 00:09:47,586 --> 00:09:54,393 it just felt different, and I could see myself on those stages, and they would have these locals-only shows where 140 00:09:54,393 --> 00:10:00,366 sometimes they were out in the woods, you know, we had a show spot down by the river, and they would pull a generator out, 141 00:10:00,366 --> 00:10:03,769 and people would perform right there under the bridge, you know? 142 00:10:03,769 --> 00:10:08,841 And, um, and those sorts of… That approach, right, and those sorts of shows 143 00:10:08,841 --> 00:10:13,646 and those sorts of shows kind of opened up that confidence in me to say, okay. 144 00:10:13,646 --> 00:10:18,184 Maybe I can get on stage and sing these songs, and… 145 00:10:18,184 --> 00:10:21,988 because it takes an incredible amount of vulnerability, you know, 146 00:10:21,988 --> 00:10:25,191 to be able to stand up and say, 147 00:10:25,191 --> 00:10:30,396 Listen to me, right? Like, I've got something worth saying, and something worth watching, and, 148 00:10:30,396 --> 00:10:33,599 and I want an hour of your time, you know, 149 00:10:33,599 --> 00:10:40,973 to focus on me, and I was comfortable doing that, like, in the academic world, and, you know, I'm a social worker, so I would 150 00:10:40,973 --> 00:10:47,446 do, uh, I did a lot of teen driver safety and a lot of community prevention training, and so I was 151 00:10:47,446 --> 00:10:52,184 comfortable standing in front of crowds, educating them, 152 00:10:52,184 --> 00:10:56,288 but I had never really tried to entertain them. 153 00:10:56,288 --> 00:11:04,530 And so it's no surprise, I guess, that my band comes out as a sort of edutainment sort of approach 154 00:11:04,530 --> 00:11:09,702 where I've teamed up with some amazing musicians, like, that's the best thing about being in Nashville. 155 00:11:09,702 --> 00:11:13,806 Now that I'm back here, I moved back after I finished my PhD, and I've 156 00:11:13,806 --> 00:11:19,912 reconnected, because here, like, there are so much talent, and they are all just 157 00:11:19,912 --> 00:11:25,785 at the peak of their skill level, and just waiting to get in the studio with somebody, 158 00:11:25,785 --> 00:11:30,489 and so I've been really lucky to get some great musicians to really help bring 159 00:11:30,489 --> 00:11:34,927 my melodies and my lyrics to life. 160 00:11:35,528 --> 00:11:41,534 [Diane:] I'm curious about the reception of your work in… 161 00:11:41,534 --> 00:11:46,639 at the beginning, when you were on college or university level, 162 00:11:46,639 --> 00:11:50,176 and you arrived to your professors, and you say, this is what I want to do. 163 00:11:50,176 --> 00:11:54,113 Are there professors who really say, oh yeah, we should do that! 164 00:11:54,113 --> 00:11:57,149 Or did you fight with them a little bit? 165 00:11:57,149 --> 00:12:01,854 [Cynthia:] Well, I did have one professor tell me that once I shaved the mohawk off, 166 00:12:01,854 --> 00:12:04,757 she said, oh, you're never gonna get tenure now. 167 00:12:04,757 --> 00:12:06,992 [Laughs] 168 00:12:06,992 --> 00:12:11,130 And so I wrote a song called Quit Lit, where I'm literally saying, like, you know, 169 00:12:11,130 --> 00:12:15,201 I'm talking about the tenure process, and I am tenured now. 170 00:12:15,201 --> 00:12:21,173 You know, and so really, it's about finding your niche, um, you know, and not ever letting anyone 171 00:12:21,173 --> 00:12:26,879 stop you from what you feel in your heart you're supposed to do, you know? 172 00:12:26,879 --> 00:12:33,953 And I knew at the time that she was giving me advice from the 70s and the 80s, 173 00:12:33,953 --> 00:12:39,492 and the traumas of her career that she had endured, and I loved her, you know, I mean, 174 00:12:39,492 --> 00:12:44,296 and so I wasn't gonna get angry or anything about that. I appreciated the advice 175 00:12:44,296 --> 00:12:46,532 that she was trying to give me. 176 00:12:46,532 --> 00:12:54,273 But I knew that I needed to go into a new world, and a new realm of higher education 177 00:12:54,273 --> 00:12:57,810 where students wanted different things, right? And so 178 00:12:57,810 --> 00:13:02,014 I would say that the punk band, the Mohawk, helped me. 179 00:13:02,014 --> 00:13:04,483 Um, you know, my students, um… 180 00:13:04,483 --> 00:13:10,089 I mean, my students love me, and, you know, and that is because I relate to them, and I care about them. 181 00:13:10,089 --> 00:13:16,862 And I'm giving them the fresh take, you know? I mean, and the image that I present 182 00:13:16,862 --> 00:13:23,636 helps them know that they're gonna get that fresh take, right? And so, they will show up to my classes with their textbooks, 183 00:13:23,636 --> 00:13:28,507 and they have already started reading them, and they are ready to do my assignments, you know, and they 184 00:13:28,507 --> 00:13:37,216 want to please the punk rock professor, and I didn't intend that when I started this, right? It was really a rage outlet, 185 00:13:37,216 --> 00:13:43,155 and, you know, and just that expression. But now that I realize, like, it's recruiting, 186 00:13:43,155 --> 00:13:47,560 And, you know, and I had this group of young kids that would just, like, come up to me after shows 187 00:13:47,560 --> 00:13:50,763 and talk to me about how they get into college, you know? 188 00:13:50,763 --> 00:13:55,034 What's the process for that? And I think about how lucky I am 189 00:13:55,034 --> 00:14:04,677 to be in those positions where I'm approachable, right? Where people that would not feel comfortable going to 190 00:14:04,677 --> 00:14:10,449 somebody that holds a PhD, and asking them, you know, silly questions about 191 00:14:10,449 --> 00:14:16,922 how to fill out the FAFSA, you know, which is the Free Application for Student Aid here in the U.S, and 192 00:14:16,922 --> 00:14:23,562 you know, and I'm just so happy that I am able to sort of demystify that process, 193 00:14:23,562 --> 00:14:30,069 and make myself approachable, and just happy to be in the room, you know, 194 00:14:30,069 --> 00:14:33,038 and that they come to me with questions like that. 195 00:14:33,672 --> 00:14:39,812 [Diane:] But more than questions, I mean, you integrate that to your… the way you're teaching. 196 00:14:39,812 --> 00:14:44,049 But you also make them do some interesting work. 197 00:14:44,049 --> 00:14:47,620 Can you talk about that, your approach, and what you are… 198 00:14:47,620 --> 00:14:52,358 What comes to… out of these courses that you make with them? 199 00:14:52,358 --> 00:15:00,199 [Cynthia:] Sure, um, I am at Tennessee State University in Nashville, Tennessee, which is a historically Black college and university, 200 00:15:00,199 --> 00:15:06,438 and so we have a tremendous amount of students that are coming from low-income households, 201 00:15:06,438 --> 00:15:15,147 and there are a lot of first-generation college students, regardless of household income. They may be the first person that ever has tried to come 202 00:15:15,147 --> 00:15:20,085 to higher education, and that can be very intimidating. I'm a first-generation college student, 203 00:15:20,085 --> 00:15:23,923 And so, first and foremost, like, I meet them where they're at, you know? 204 00:15:23,923 --> 00:15:26,959 Like, that's the number one tenet of being a social worker, 205 00:15:26,959 --> 00:15:31,096 is meeting people where they're at, and so, I value that, 206 00:15:31,096 --> 00:15:35,768 that they've come to me and asked me, you know, to help them with their careers. 207 00:15:35,768 --> 00:15:40,339 And, uh, I've specifically teach research and public policy 208 00:15:40,339 --> 00:15:46,078 and so in my research courses, I will have students do 209 00:15:46,078 --> 00:15:52,418 literature reviews embedded in their field placements, right? And so they'll be talking about 210 00:15:52,418 --> 00:16:01,427 what are best practices to provide counseling and substance abuse treatment to low-income African-American women, right? 211 00:16:01,427 --> 00:16:06,598 Which is, like, this segment of the population that there's virtually no research on. 212 00:16:06,598 --> 00:16:13,205 And if I could inspire someone to get their advanced degree and actually publish that paper one day, 213 00:16:13,205 --> 00:16:19,645 that would make me so happy, right? I mean, and so that's, like, the sort of technical part of what I'm doing. 214 00:16:19,645 --> 00:16:24,183 In my public policy classes, I incorporate the arts more. 215 00:16:24,183 --> 00:16:29,421 And in that class, I do have them write a traditional paper and a presentation. 216 00:16:29,421 --> 00:16:36,161 But they're studying social movements, and we study public policy from the bottom up in that class. 217 00:16:36,161 --> 00:16:40,032 I've got an advanced policy where we go from the bottom, from the top down. 218 00:16:40,032 --> 00:16:45,771 But in the bottom-up class, we talk about how people get engaged in public policy 219 00:16:45,771 --> 00:16:50,342 and changing society, right? And so they study these social movements. 220 00:16:50,342 --> 00:16:54,246 And I had them write a paper, they do a presentation, and then they make a zine. 221 00:16:54,246 --> 00:16:57,516 Right? Which is, I had them make a little mini zine, 222 00:16:57,516 --> 00:17:02,388 which is one sheet of paper, you know, that folds up into a little booklet. 223 00:17:02,388 --> 00:17:06,225 And, um, they love it, right? Many of them, like, 224 00:17:06,225 --> 00:17:11,230 y'all get the top straight-A students that will freak out over a zine. 225 00:17:11,230 --> 00:17:15,401 Because they've never been asked to do anything artistic in their classes, right? 226 00:17:15,401 --> 00:17:17,970 They can write those papers left and right. 227 00:17:17,970 --> 00:17:22,074 But that creative aspect of, okay, now I want you to think about 228 00:17:22,074 --> 00:17:26,311 communicating the essence of your social movement through art. 229 00:17:26,311 --> 00:17:29,214 And I want that to be in a zine, right? 230 00:17:29,214 --> 00:17:33,952 Um, and for those that don't know, a zine is short for magazine, 231 00:17:33,952 --> 00:17:37,623 and zines took off, really, in the 80s 232 00:17:37,623 --> 00:17:41,727 when the photocopier was invented and became widely available, 233 00:17:41,727 --> 00:17:49,001 because it was so much cheaper and easier for people to reproduce copies of something they created. 234 00:17:49,001 --> 00:17:52,204 And so it's really a radical means of free press, 235 00:17:52,204 --> 00:17:55,574 where you don't have to get it cleared by a publisher or anything like that. 236 00:17:55,574 --> 00:17:58,510 You can just put something on a piece of paper and hand it out. 237 00:17:58,510 --> 00:18:02,347 And the many zines that I'm using are… 238 00:18:02,347 --> 00:18:06,485 easy, right? They fit in a pocket, you know? And, like, something like this is cool, 239 00:18:06,485 --> 00:18:10,756 like, even if you just find it on the street, you know, and you pick it up, you know, and you think it's trash, 240 00:18:10,756 --> 00:18:13,725 and then you realize, oh, wait, there's some art in there, and… 241 00:18:13,725 --> 00:18:19,465 And I'm a riot girl, the zines were big in the 90s, late 80s, and early 90s, 242 00:18:19,465 --> 00:18:23,102 and I used to tape quarters to a piece of paper and, like, 243 00:18:23,102 --> 00:18:27,673 mail it to somewhere, and then they would send me a zine back in the mail. 244 00:18:27,673 --> 00:18:35,514 And, um, you know, and so zines have come a long way, um, and I am just again, so lucky to be 245 00:18:35,514 --> 00:18:41,687 in charge of a class, right? Like, I get to create the curriculum, and I have decided that a zine 246 00:18:41,687 --> 00:18:45,791 is an appropriate way to communicate this message, right? And so, 247 00:18:45,791 --> 00:18:51,830 I use all of my powers as a professor, and, you know, I mean, and my students really respond to it, 248 00:18:51,830 --> 00:18:54,900 and it brings their papers to life. 249 00:18:54,900 --> 00:18:58,770 And, you know, these are students' first zines most of the time. 250 00:18:58,770 --> 00:19:01,807 Like, every once in a while, I'll get some students that have made zines before, 251 00:19:01,807 --> 00:19:04,143 but most of the time, it's their first zine. 252 00:19:04,143 --> 00:19:11,283 And so I actually started publishing them, and so I've got a journal called Creating Change, 253 00:19:11,283 --> 00:19:14,786 the online journal of zines about social movements. 254 00:19:14,786 --> 00:19:18,323 I've got 6 years' worth, I think, so far. 255 00:19:18,323 --> 00:19:23,228 Volume 7 will be coming out by the end of June, it should be out, 256 00:19:23,228 --> 00:19:29,368 and those are published through TSU's library. They've got a digital toolbox, and they're published there. 257 00:19:29,368 --> 00:19:33,972 And I actually have started getting students to publish their papers, too, which is a little bit 258 00:19:33,972 --> 00:19:38,744 riskier for students, right? They're really nervous about publishing a paper. 259 00:19:38,744 --> 00:19:41,847 But I've actually gotten a few to publish them. 260 00:19:41,847 --> 00:19:47,152 I had one group of students actually not only publish their papers and their zine, but then they went on 261 00:19:47,152 --> 00:19:53,325 to present their work at The Council on Social Work Education Conference, which is an annual 262 00:19:53,325 --> 00:19:58,564 Academic conference where social workers from all over the world come together to share knowledge. 263 00:19:58,564 --> 00:20:02,267 And so I was so happy. There's not a lot of master's level students 264 00:20:02,267 --> 00:20:04,836 that present work at those conferences. 265 00:20:04,836 --> 00:20:08,640 And so I was just so happy to bring something cool, right? 266 00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:13,579 Like, I mean, it wasn't just, like, a stodgy old paper, it was these cool zines, you know, 267 00:20:13,579 --> 00:20:17,616 and so my sessions are generally well attended at those events, and, 268 00:20:17,616 --> 00:20:20,552 and I just… I just love taking students and 269 00:20:20,552 --> 00:20:25,457 kind of giving that energy, right? Because that's really what the arts does, right? 270 00:20:25,457 --> 00:20:30,495 And I'll just tell you the secret, the science behind it is dual cognitive processing, right? 271 00:20:30,495 --> 00:20:39,838 And getting both sides of, you know, your brain working, your left and your right brain both working on a particular concept, 272 00:20:39,838 --> 00:20:46,244 and like, when people can attach emotions to the facts that they're learning, right? 273 00:20:46,244 --> 00:20:49,281 That's really when things come together. 274 00:20:49,281 --> 00:20:57,990 And it promotes memory recall, and it promotes the ability for people to transfer that learning to other situations, right? 275 00:20:57,990 --> 00:21:01,059 And other aspects of their life, and so… 276 00:21:01,059 --> 00:21:04,129 I've got science to back it up as well. 277 00:21:04,496 --> 00:21:09,668 [Diane:] Can I ask you for an example, for example, you come with a series of 278 00:21:09,668 --> 00:21:18,176 legislations or laws that are impacting your... or that you can present in a course. Let's say ADA, for example. 279 00:21:18,176 --> 00:21:23,782 So, if you come to your students and say, we're gonna do a zine on ADA, 280 00:21:23,782 --> 00:21:28,587 what do they produce, to have an idea of what this zine contains? 281 00:21:28,587 --> 00:21:32,858 [Cynthia:] Oh, yeah. Well, I never tell the students their topic, right? 282 00:21:32,858 --> 00:21:37,462 Some teachers are very prescriptive like that, and I'm very loose, right? 283 00:21:37,462 --> 00:21:40,399 And so I just say, I'm giving you a method. 284 00:21:40,399 --> 00:21:45,637 And you have to choose which aspect interests you, right? 285 00:21:45,637 --> 00:21:53,378 And because I'm wanting to cultivate their own desire for lifelong learning, right? And I… I never, like… 286 00:21:53,378 --> 00:21:59,751 I've decolonized my syllabi, I don't know if you know what that means, but, you know, like, I'm really kind of 287 00:21:59,751 --> 00:22:07,092 taken away Um, those aspects that would force a student to do something that they didn't want to do, right? 288 00:22:07,092 --> 00:22:15,367 And so, I will have students pick their issues, right? And I don't grade them on whether or not I agree with them. 289 00:22:15,367 --> 00:22:21,740 I grade them on whether or not they are accurately capturing the essence of that movement, right? 290 00:22:21,740 --> 00:22:30,315 And so, I want them to explore that. And, you know, and I'll be honest, some of those zines I get are… mediocre, right? 291 00:22:30,315 --> 00:22:36,254 I mean, they're, you know, like, you know, I mean, there's still value in that. I'm not gonna question anyone's art. 292 00:22:36,254 --> 00:22:42,160 Because they are, like, the art is mediocre, I mean, right? Like, the content is always on point, you know? 293 00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:46,498 But you can tell when students have really put into it. Like, I had… 294 00:22:46,498 --> 00:22:52,204 One student analyzed Alcoholics Anonymous as a social movement. Right? 295 00:22:52,204 --> 00:22:59,244 And his paper was fabulous. And his zine is still, to this day, one of the best zines. 296 00:22:59,244 --> 00:23:03,482 I think he's in issue 1, if you look at the journal online. It's, um… 297 00:23:03,482 --> 00:23:07,352 Goodness, I can't remember his name. He would be upset. Jeff, uh, right? 298 00:23:07,352 --> 00:23:10,756 But his zine on Alcoholics Anonymous as a movement 299 00:23:10,756 --> 00:23:15,360 just really told the story in this really simple way, 300 00:23:15,360 --> 00:23:21,566 because that's what a zine does, it's it makes you boil everything down to the essential elements 301 00:23:21,566 --> 00:23:25,403 to communicate it as simply as possible. 302 00:23:25,403 --> 00:23:32,310 And so, I love watching them take these complex issues that will fit into a 15-page paper. 303 00:23:32,310 --> 00:23:37,349 You know, but then I want them to also boil it down to a tiny little mini-zine. 304 00:23:37,349 --> 00:23:43,822 And they don't understand sometimes what an intellectual task that is, right? But it is a task, and 305 00:23:43,822 --> 00:23:49,428 I kind of taught myself doing that, because I'm complex, right? I could talk for hours about things. 306 00:23:49,428 --> 00:23:55,400 Create a semester-long course on one topic, but then I will also try to boil it down to a haiku. 307 00:23:55,400 --> 00:24:03,041 Right? And how can I communicate this incredibly complex concept using this very limited 308 00:24:03,041 --> 00:24:09,815 form, right? And then, of course, I'm human, and I understand the human condition, and people never 309 00:24:09,815 --> 00:24:15,687 just deal with one source alone, right? They're always taking in multiple sources, and so 310 00:24:15,687 --> 00:24:22,227 I just trust that the universe is going to give them the other pieces, but then, you know, the essential truths, 311 00:24:22,227 --> 00:24:25,730 as I see it is in this tiny little haiku, right? 312 00:24:25,730 --> 00:24:30,435 And then that approach goes into my punk songs, like, because I will 313 00:24:30,435 --> 00:24:38,610 write songs that might summarize a whole chapter in one of the texts that I'm teaching from, right? 314 00:24:38,610 --> 00:24:41,746 And my students might recognize it, and they'll say, Hey! 315 00:24:41,746 --> 00:24:46,885 Tradition and authority, that's from Chapter 1 in our research textbook, 316 00:24:46,885 --> 00:24:52,924 and that's also a line in your song, and I was like, you are correct, right? Like, bonus points! 317 00:24:52,924 --> 00:24:58,063 Right? You get it. So I'm taking this really complex information 318 00:24:58,063 --> 00:25:05,270 and making it more digestible and more entertaining, right? Because that's what it takes 319 00:25:05,270 --> 00:25:11,643 for people to take in complex information. Like, sometimes we have this tendency to resist 320 00:25:11,643 --> 00:25:17,716 just because it's overwhelming, or it's different, right? It's, like, outside of our normal schemes of thinking, 321 00:25:17,716 --> 00:25:20,519 and so we want to reject that information. 322 00:25:20,519 --> 00:25:27,425 And having it come in through a punk song, or a poem, or a zine, or art of any form 323 00:25:27,425 --> 00:25:31,062 opens the human mind, and it touches the human heart, 324 00:25:31,062 --> 00:25:34,532 And again, it gives that dual cognitive processing going 325 00:25:34,532 --> 00:25:37,802 so that people are going to remember those concepts more. 326 00:25:38,737 --> 00:25:41,406 [Diane:] So let's talk about your band. 327 00:25:41,406 --> 00:25:46,845 So, Dr. Cyn and the Graduates Rise, where does the name come from 328 00:25:46,845 --> 00:25:51,416 and what made you start writing? 329 00:25:51,416 --> 00:25:56,688 I mean, you talked a little bit about it already, but I want to go a little bit deeper on that. 330 00:25:56,688 --> 00:26:00,959 [Cynthia:] Okay, great, yeah. Um, well, I was actually, like, 331 00:26:00,959 --> 00:26:06,731 I had to be a PhD student a year longer than I had planned, and it was kind of like this confluence of 332 00:26:06,731 --> 00:26:13,104 my disabilities flaring up, and I had an administrator force me into a bureaucratic process 333 00:26:13,104 --> 00:26:20,111 that I didn't need to go through, and so I just had this year of my final studies where I was waiting for a checkbox 334 00:26:20,111 --> 00:26:21,980 that it turns out I didn't even need. 335 00:26:21,980 --> 00:26:29,521 But in that year, all of my studies were done, my dissertation was done, I was literally just paying tuition away down a process. 336 00:26:29,521 --> 00:26:33,258 And that is… that made me homeless, right? Like, I had to choose. 337 00:26:33,258 --> 00:26:39,331 Can I pay tuition to go through this year? What do I do? And so I was living out of my car. 338 00:26:39,331 --> 00:26:43,902 And staying with a bunch of different friends, right? And 339 00:26:43,902 --> 00:26:51,543 it was one of those friends that I was staying with that saw the songs that I was writing and said, Hey, 340 00:26:51,543 --> 00:26:55,513 let's do… make this band, you know? Like, let's make this album, 341 00:26:55,513 --> 00:27:01,853 and so I was like, okay, you know, and so that was really… if it hadn't been for that 342 00:27:01,853 --> 00:27:06,091 period of being homeless, which many people would take as, 343 00:27:06,091 --> 00:27:10,562 you know, a blow, right, to knock them down into nothingness. 344 00:27:10,562 --> 00:27:16,401 I, thankfully, was surrounded by enough people that supported me and loved me, 345 00:27:16,401 --> 00:27:21,506 to get me through that time and help me tap into my art. 346 00:27:21,506 --> 00:27:27,379 It was at a point where poverty had kept me from art for so long. 347 00:27:27,379 --> 00:27:31,650 But this extreme sort of poverty just drove me right to it, right? 348 00:27:31,650 --> 00:27:36,588 Where I had nothing else to do in that year, except for make this punk record, right? 349 00:27:36,588 --> 00:27:41,092 And so, like, I made Graduates Rise and their first album, I think I spent, like, 350 00:27:41,092 --> 00:27:44,562 $600 on the on the full album to do everything, 351 00:27:44,562 --> 00:27:48,800 maybe a little bit more, which is ridiculously cheap for making a record. 352 00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:54,939 And the band name, Graduates Rise, you know, I just looked online, 353 00:27:54,939 --> 00:27:59,477 I wanted to find something that no one else had, right? A lot of band names have been taken. 354 00:27:59,477 --> 00:28:06,718 I wanted it to have this education angle to it, and so Graduates Rise, as in all rise, right? 355 00:28:06,718 --> 00:28:09,921 Where, you know, you say that at graduation, when you graduate. 356 00:28:09,921 --> 00:28:14,859 And then also, to get off your keisters and use your education for something, right? 357 00:28:14,859 --> 00:28:22,233 Because there is a sort of activist or advocacy slant to… there's a call to action in my songs, right? 358 00:28:22,233 --> 00:28:28,139 And so, the Graduates Rise, like I needed a name that implied action. 359 00:28:28,473 --> 00:28:32,444 And then Dr. CynCorrigible was a nickname a friend of mine gave me, and 360 00:28:32,444 --> 00:28:39,784 it just kind of stuck, right? That comes from incorrigible, but the Cyn added, right? CynCorrigible. 361 00:28:39,784 --> 00:28:45,190 And so, you know, it just kind of fit. And I started doing some solo stuff, 362 00:28:45,190 --> 00:28:49,027 and so I needed the Dr. Cyn, and now I've got two profiles. 363 00:28:49,027 --> 00:28:53,465 You can catch my old music at the streaming profiles for Graduates Rise 364 00:28:53,465 --> 00:28:57,869 and my new music is at the streaming profiles for Dr. Cyn. 365 00:28:57,869 --> 00:29:01,740 And then if you look on YouTube and stuff, it's Dr. Cyn and The Graduates Rise, 366 00:29:01,740 --> 00:29:05,977 and so I'll apologize for a little bit of marketing miscommunication. 367 00:29:05,977 --> 00:29:11,683 But everything is at GraduatesRise.com, and you can link out from there. 368 00:29:13,118 --> 00:29:18,656 [Diane:] So, what is... I know you recently, or you are preparing 369 00:29:18,690 --> 00:29:24,195 for the release of a new single, right? Can you talk about this? 370 00:29:24,195 --> 00:29:29,567 [Cynthia:] Yes, well, it's a song off of my album. I've got a 10-song album called Canary. 371 00:29:29,567 --> 00:29:39,544 And that album was heavily inspired by my experiences watching my mother struggle while living in a nursing home. 372 00:29:39,544 --> 00:29:48,386 And she did suffer abuse and neglect, and she succumbed to her condition in 2019. 373 00:29:48,386 --> 00:29:53,691 But she fought for 3 years to recover from an injury 374 00:29:53,691 --> 00:29:57,996 that she had an accident, went into a rehab facility, 375 00:29:57,996 --> 00:30:04,035 and then was injured by the facility within the first two weeks of her being there, 376 00:30:04,035 --> 00:30:08,106 and that's part of why I moved back to Tennessee, it was to come back and help her. 377 00:30:08,106 --> 00:30:14,646 And so, a lot of the songs off Canary were written while I was sitting in the nursing home, you know, 378 00:30:14,646 --> 00:30:17,215 or in a hospital, in emergency room, 379 00:30:17,215 --> 00:30:20,018 you know, working with her, and so 380 00:30:20,018 --> 00:30:25,490 while Math is Hard, my first album was really about my experiences as a doctoral student, 381 00:30:25,490 --> 00:30:30,762 Canary is really about my experiences, both taking… being a junior faculty, 382 00:30:30,762 --> 00:30:35,633 there are some songs on there about education still, and about my first academic job. 383 00:30:35,633 --> 00:30:42,207 And then a lot of it, like, there's a lot of things about lawsuits, right? And, uh, right? 384 00:30:42,207 --> 00:30:48,479 And Stupid or Cruel comes from that. That was the… first song that I wrote, 385 00:30:48,479 --> 00:30:54,152 and I wrote that the hour after I did my mother's deposition, 386 00:30:54,152 --> 00:30:57,655 the deposition for my mother's wrongful death lawsuit, right? 387 00:30:57,655 --> 00:31:01,359 And so, you know, I was in this conversation with lawyers, and 388 00:31:01,359 --> 00:31:05,263 it was all in Zoom, because this was, you know, still during COVID times, 389 00:31:05,263 --> 00:31:13,872 and um… they had asked me why I thought the nursing home abused my mother. 390 00:31:13,872 --> 00:31:20,044 And of course, I don't know, you know, I mean, I don't care why they did it, you know? 391 00:31:20,044 --> 00:31:26,951 You know, they shouldn't have. But all I could think about is misfeasance or malfeasance, right? 392 00:31:26,951 --> 00:31:32,323 Like, is it misfeasance, you know, someone doing something because they don't know any better? 393 00:31:32,323 --> 00:31:36,027 Or someone doing something because they don't care, you know? 394 00:31:36,027 --> 00:31:41,733 And those are sort of the binary opposites of why something like 395 00:31:41,733 --> 00:31:45,270 nursing home abuse and neglect even occurs, you know? 396 00:31:45,270 --> 00:31:48,673 And of course, the issue is very complex, and it's about, 397 00:31:48,673 --> 00:31:54,512 you know, training and capacity and how well the floor is staffed, and, you know, 398 00:31:54,512 --> 00:31:59,717 and the fragility of my mother, and how complex health conditions can be, 399 00:31:59,717 --> 00:32:05,089 and, you know, it's just a really tough situation. But I was still just a girl who… 400 00:32:05,089 --> 00:32:07,959 whose mother had been murdered, you know? 401 00:32:07,959 --> 00:32:14,299 And so that… the song, Stupid or Cruel, comes from… my pain, 402 00:32:14,299 --> 00:32:20,972 but it also comes from my joy, right? Like, my mother was fierce. 403 00:32:20,972 --> 00:32:26,811 We actually put on her tombstone: the strength of the bear and the stubbornness of the donkey. 404 00:32:26,811 --> 00:32:30,848 And boy, is that true. Like, I say that those are two qualities 405 00:32:30,848 --> 00:32:33,685 that I definitely got from my mother. 406 00:32:33,685 --> 00:32:37,555 And I'm proud of that, right? And so, um, you know, 407 00:32:37,555 --> 00:32:41,526 she would have loved the song, right? 408 00:32:41,526 --> 00:32:49,000 And so that Stupid or Cruel as a song became… that's the only live-action video that I have done. 409 00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:52,470 I made some videos using AI for all the songs on the record, 410 00:32:52,470 --> 00:32:56,774 but Stupid or Cruel, I actually shot a live-action video 411 00:32:56,774 --> 00:33:00,678 Um, I got borrowed equipment from the United Cerebral Palsy Exchange, 412 00:33:00,678 --> 00:33:06,651 which runs an equipment exchange here in Nashville for durable medical equipment. 413 00:33:06,651 --> 00:33:12,724 And then my band, of course, supported me, and, um, the video features me... 414 00:33:12,724 --> 00:33:18,196 I got couture hospital gowns made, like, I really had a friend of mine that's a designer, like, 415 00:33:18,196 --> 00:33:23,301 cut up hospital gowns and make a hospital gown from torn-up shreds. 416 00:33:23,301 --> 00:33:29,207 And we made it all stylish with, like, the little… normally your butt's showing, and we moved the slit to the side, right? 417 00:33:29,207 --> 00:33:34,679 So I do have, like, these cool couture hospital gowns, one made out of rags of different colors, 418 00:33:34,679 --> 00:33:39,450 and one in black, and so I'm kind of going back and forth between those. 419 00:33:39,450 --> 00:33:44,355 I had a friend of mine make an aluminum throne out of crutches. 420 00:33:44,355 --> 00:33:48,326 These were old crutches, right? from the equipment exchange, 421 00:33:48,326 --> 00:33:51,896 and he repurposed them into the aluminum throne, 422 00:33:51,896 --> 00:33:56,801 which was from the Game of Thrones, which had a throne made of swords 423 00:33:56,801 --> 00:34:02,807 that came from soldiers that had fallen in battle and melded by dragon's breath, right? 424 00:34:02,807 --> 00:34:12,150 Well, my aluminum throne is made of crutches that were, you know, let go by various people with disabilities over the years, 425 00:34:12,150 --> 00:34:16,120 and I repurposed those, you know, into the aluminum throne. 426 00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:18,923 And so the video kind of juxtaposes 427 00:34:18,923 --> 00:34:22,460 me in a power position, singing from this throne. 428 00:34:22,460 --> 00:34:27,532 And then me in a hospital bed, in a Hoyer lift, 429 00:34:27,532 --> 00:34:32,537 and, you know, struggling to do the things that I witnessed my mother struggling to do. 430 00:34:32,537 --> 00:34:35,907 Like, get help to brush her teeth, right? Like, nobody brushed her teeth. 431 00:34:35,907 --> 00:34:40,344 If I wasn't there to do it, I don't know what would have happened, you know? 432 00:34:40,344 --> 00:34:46,517 And, you know, and it was very hard to transfer her out, so she spent too much time in bed, right? Because 433 00:34:46,517 --> 00:34:51,989 they only had one Hoyer lift, and that wasn't enough staff to move her, you know, safely. 434 00:34:51,989 --> 00:34:55,426 And, you know, like, these are such common problems, and toileting, right? 435 00:34:55,426 --> 00:35:04,168 Toileting will… ruin a facility, right? Like, if that facility can't manage eating and toileting of their residents, 436 00:35:04,168 --> 00:35:10,575 then they're in trouble. And so many of the world's nursing homes struggle to manage 437 00:35:10,575 --> 00:35:15,379 feeding and toileting. Right? And so all of that complexity, again, 438 00:35:15,379 --> 00:35:19,617 I boiled down into this song called Stupid or Cruel. 439 00:35:19,617 --> 00:35:24,989 And, you know, and try to, as an artist, depict the complexity of that 440 00:35:24,989 --> 00:35:27,859 through this music video and this song, 441 00:35:27,859 --> 00:35:33,965 and I'm also making a zine that will be released in Volume 7 of the Creating Change Journal 442 00:35:33,965 --> 00:35:39,470 that will include, like, my mother made tips, right? And she would always say... 443 00:35:39,470 --> 00:35:43,407 Like, I definitely get my social worker. She was not a social worker, she worked at Walmart, 444 00:35:43,407 --> 00:35:47,478 as a cashier most of her life. 445 00:35:47,478 --> 00:35:52,216 Um, but… she would always want to make things better, right? 446 00:35:52,216 --> 00:35:57,588 And so I definitely got that from her, and she would even… she would say things. 447 00:35:57,588 --> 00:36:00,858 Cindy - she called me Cindy, but please, no one else do. 448 00:36:00,858 --> 00:36:06,264 She wouldn't say, Cindy, write this down. She was like, this is a tip that everyone in these homes should know. 449 00:36:06,264 --> 00:36:09,901 And I was like, okay, right? And she would say things like, 450 00:36:09,901 --> 00:36:14,005 You have to make sure to have a friend that will look at your butt. 451 00:36:14,005 --> 00:36:15,640 [Laughs.] 452 00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:19,210 I mean, like, some of this sort of ridiculous advice, 453 00:36:19,210 --> 00:36:25,983 but it made so much sense to a woman that was literally dying from a bed sore that had been neglected, 454 00:36:25,983 --> 00:36:32,823 you know, on her butt, right? And if someone had looked at that sooner and had raised the red flags, 455 00:36:32,823 --> 00:36:35,293 then it might not have went septic, right? 456 00:36:35,293 --> 00:36:37,995 And so, just, again, my mother was, 457 00:36:37,995 --> 00:36:43,768 even though she didn't have the college education, you know, she never did arts or anything like that. 458 00:36:43,768 --> 00:36:53,945 but that essence of her… I like to think I'm still… honoring that and carrying it forward, 459 00:36:53,945 --> 00:36:58,382 through the album Canary and through the work that I do. 460 00:36:58,382 --> 00:37:01,919 And just trying to make everything better when I leave. 461 00:37:01,919 --> 00:37:05,389 No matter how… how bad my experiences may be, 462 00:37:05,389 --> 00:37:11,596 I'm gonna do what it takes to make sure that the next person has a little bit better of an experience. 463 00:37:12,396 --> 00:37:17,868 [Diane:] Well, we share one thing in being in an organization 464 00:37:17,868 --> 00:37:24,909 that is using music as disability rights activism, basically, 465 00:37:24,909 --> 00:37:31,382 and present the work of many, many artists with disabilities, 466 00:37:31,382 --> 00:37:36,320 and it's called Recording Artists and Music Professionals with Disabilities, RAMPD. 467 00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:42,660 And we are both part of this organization, which is how I know you work, right? It's really thanks to RAMPD. 468 00:37:42,660 --> 00:37:45,663 [Cynthia:] Yes, RAMPD is great for that. 469 00:37:45,663 --> 00:37:53,571 [Diane:] And not only does it connect people between them, but it also provides us, like, some, 470 00:37:53,571 --> 00:37:58,643 some ways to meet and to share our work. 471 00:37:58,643 --> 00:38:03,280 And I am curious to hear how you arrived to RAMPD. 472 00:38:03,948 --> 00:38:09,120 [Cynthia:] I originally found out about RAMPD while I was watching the Wavy Awards, 473 00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:14,625 which is out of New York, and they are an alternative awards program for 474 00:38:14,625 --> 00:38:21,766 LGBTQ, BIPOC, and disabled artists, and they, um… I was watching this show just in tears 475 00:38:21,766 --> 00:38:28,306 over all of the wonderful, amazing disabled artists that were there, and they were being centered, 476 00:38:28,306 --> 00:38:32,810 and they were performing on the stage, and they were receiving awards, and 477 00:38:32,810 --> 00:38:37,581 I was just like, where did they find all of these disabled artists, right? 478 00:38:37,581 --> 00:38:41,452 Because I had no idea that this many people existed. 479 00:38:41,452 --> 00:38:48,359 And so, I started Googling, right, and I was, like, searching all of the artists that were featured on the Wavy Awards. 480 00:38:48,359 --> 00:38:52,863 And I ended up finding… it was actually DJ Pastor Rock, or Reverend Chris, 481 00:38:52,863 --> 00:39:01,038 and I found him, and then that led me to Lachi, who is the creator or the co-creator of RAMPD, 482 00:39:01,038 --> 00:39:07,578 and as soon as I saw that website, I was like, oh, let me join this, right? Like, these are my people. 483 00:39:07,578 --> 00:39:13,150 And I had never really felt that sort of connection. Like, I… I mean, I love my Nashville peeps, 484 00:39:13,150 --> 00:39:15,753 I love my Richmond peeps, you know, like. 485 00:39:15,753 --> 00:39:19,156 It's not like I've been outcast from music communities. 486 00:39:19,156 --> 00:39:27,331 But I never really, truly felt like I belonged, like, these are my people doing my art that get me. 487 00:39:27,331 --> 00:39:33,337 And I found that in RAMPD, and I just was going through these profiles of all of these great artists, 488 00:39:33,337 --> 00:39:37,775 and, you know, it's just like, I definitely want to be a part of this. And, um, and so… 489 00:39:37,775 --> 00:39:41,612 I am… I serve on the Public Relations Committee. 490 00:39:41,612 --> 00:39:47,251 And, uh, we help to put out the newsletter and highlight different artists, 491 00:39:47,251 --> 00:39:49,587 and so I serve on that committee. 492 00:39:49,587 --> 00:39:57,461 And then I have been working with Lachi and Arthur to develop some new programs, potentially, for RAMPD, 493 00:39:57,461 --> 00:40:02,199 because I am a social worker and a program developer, and a program evaluator, right? 494 00:40:02,199 --> 00:40:08,873 And I've been providing non-profit consulting for 25 years, and so, you know, I do research, right? 495 00:40:08,873 --> 00:40:15,913 And, like, those are expertise and skill sets that Lachi was like, oh, let me figure out how to utilize this, you know? 496 00:40:15,913 --> 00:40:18,916 Like, we want you for your art and this other stuff. 497 00:40:18,916 --> 00:40:22,520 And, uh, you know, and so we're figuring out how to use that. 498 00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:27,992 One way is, um, I started a program called Disabled to the Front. 499 00:40:27,992 --> 00:40:36,033 And that operates here in Nashville. And it is a play on an old Riot Girl term, which was Girls to the Front. 500 00:40:36,033 --> 00:40:42,072 And, uh, we would say girls to the front. At that time, it was very unsafe for women and girls 501 00:40:42,072 --> 00:40:47,144 to be in nightlife and in music venues, right, and through… whether it was mosh mosh pits 502 00:40:47,144 --> 00:40:51,015 or sexual assault, or, you know, just, you know, just wasn't really safe. 503 00:40:51,015 --> 00:40:58,656 And so, the Girls to the Front movement fought to create environments that were safe for women to be at the front, on the stage, 504 00:40:58,656 --> 00:41:05,029 and in the front of the crowd, right? And so, I kind of took a play on that and created Disabled to the Front, 505 00:41:05,029 --> 00:41:11,535 which is focusing on getting disabled people on those stages, and disabled people to the front of the audience. 506 00:41:11,535 --> 00:41:17,341 Oftentimes, as a person with disabilities, you end up in the back or along the sides of the venue, 507 00:41:17,341 --> 00:41:22,780 and so I don't know how many times I've watched a show where all I can see are people's rear ends, you know, 508 00:41:22,780 --> 00:41:27,084 because they gave me seating, but it was behind everybody else, you know? 509 00:41:27,084 --> 00:41:31,055 And I'm like, wait, what did I pay for this ticket price for? You know? 510 00:41:31,055 --> 00:41:37,962 Um, and so, um, I've wanted to kind of start that effort to bring attention to that. 511 00:41:37,962 --> 00:41:43,167 And I met… Nashville has a Nightmare, right? And I met the Nightmare. 512 00:41:43,167 --> 00:41:49,206 Nightmares exist in, I believe it's, like, 13 or 15 cities in the U.S. right now, 513 00:41:49,206 --> 00:41:53,177 and I believe there's a couple of other countries around the world that may have them, too. 514 00:41:53,177 --> 00:41:56,780 But there are for cities that have a significant amount of nightlife. 515 00:41:56,780 --> 00:42:03,487 Right? To the point that nightlife becomes a culture and a critical component of their community. 516 00:42:03,487 --> 00:42:07,925 And so, the Nightmare here in Nashville really welcomed me with open arms 517 00:42:07,925 --> 00:42:12,963 when I said, hey, people with disabilities aren't really getting the access that they deserve to nightlife. 518 00:42:12,963 --> 00:42:18,135 And he was like, you know what? You're right. He was like, why don't we start an advisory group on that? 519 00:42:18,135 --> 00:42:23,974 And, uh, and so, yeah, like, I've had several venues, like Fifth and Broadway here in Nashville, reached out, 520 00:42:23,974 --> 00:42:28,579 and they are working with us to improve their accessibility and, 521 00:42:28,579 --> 00:42:33,684 you know, the universe sent me the most amazing group of advisory council members. 522 00:42:33,684 --> 00:42:39,023 And, you know, soon we're gonna have a newsletter launched, and you know, we're… it's a new effort, 523 00:42:39,023 --> 00:42:42,493 but we are getting some things done for being a new effort. 524 00:42:42,493 --> 00:42:50,701 And RAMPD is helping me to connect with other Nightmares in those other cities, 525 00:42:50,701 --> 00:42:58,309 through RAMPD artists, right, to kind of spread the Disabled to the Front approach, right, 526 00:42:58,309 --> 00:43:03,681 to those other cities, um, and that would be a new sort of effort for RAMPD to do something like that. 527 00:43:03,681 --> 00:43:09,353 They normally focus on culture and awareness, and so we're kind of stumbling through 528 00:43:09,353 --> 00:43:15,592 and figuring out how that's going to work out, um, you know, but I'm just… I feel so lucky 529 00:43:15,592 --> 00:43:22,733 to be able to create this new will, right? And to be able to plan events 530 00:43:22,733 --> 00:43:31,008 at these cool venues in Nashville, where normally people in wheelchairs, right, or deaf people, they would not feel comfortable 531 00:43:31,008 --> 00:43:34,445 coming, they would not feel safe even coming to some of these 532 00:43:34,445 --> 00:43:41,819 venues or events, and so… and I'm honored that they trust me enough that, you know, that they're gonna come, right? 533 00:43:41,819 --> 00:43:46,490 And, um, you know, and that they're going to say, I'm gonna try going there, 534 00:43:46,490 --> 00:43:50,961 because Dr. Cyn says it's safe, right? And, like, and it's fun. 535 00:43:50,961 --> 00:43:57,201 And I want to go do that. And so I just feel so lucky that I'm in a position to be able to liaison 536 00:43:57,201 --> 00:44:01,338 between the disabled community and the mayor's office and these venue owners 537 00:44:01,338 --> 00:44:05,843 to try and improve and promote that access, 538 00:44:05,843 --> 00:44:09,346 because it's hard to become an artist if you don't observe 539 00:44:09,346 --> 00:44:13,951 and participate in art as an audience member, right? 540 00:44:13,951 --> 00:44:21,191 And so, the Disabled to the Front effort is totally about getting disabled people in the audience, 541 00:44:21,191 --> 00:44:25,696 and hopefully inspiring them to get on stage one day, right? 542 00:44:26,664 --> 00:44:31,769 [Diane:] Yeah. We have so many things to share about that. 543 00:44:31,769 --> 00:44:35,939 [Cynthia:] Oh yeah. We could talk a lot about that. 544 00:44:35,939 --> 00:44:41,345 [Diane:] I have a question that is related to that, and you touched base to it a little bit, but 545 00:44:41,345 --> 00:44:46,917 Um, I like this question because everybody has a different notion of 546 00:44:46,917 --> 00:44:52,690 what it is to be involved in accessibility in the arts, 547 00:44:52,690 --> 00:44:55,859 So, for you, what is it, and what is… 548 00:44:55,859 --> 00:45:01,832 kind of a definition and, um, how… the way you see disability culture. 549 00:45:02,666 --> 00:45:08,639 [Cynthia:] Oh, goodness. I mean, um… Now, it is about disability joy. 550 00:45:08,639 --> 00:45:12,676 Right? And I am currently refusing to back off of that. 551 00:45:12,676 --> 00:45:17,681 And, um, I grew up not knowing that I was autistic, 552 00:45:17,681 --> 00:45:22,286 and my mother, with all of her strength of the bear and stubbornness of the donkey. 553 00:45:22,286 --> 00:45:29,893 she knew I was autistic. I had IEPs, I was getting handwriting, you know, I was getting all of these services, you know. 554 00:45:29,893 --> 00:45:36,433 But she never told me that I had autism. It was actually on her deathbed in 2019, 555 00:45:36,433 --> 00:45:40,904 and we were watching a TV show about a kid with autism, and my mom said, 556 00:45:40,904 --> 00:45:45,809 Cindy, you had that. And I was like, what do you mean, Mom? It doesn't go away. 557 00:45:45,809 --> 00:45:50,814 You know? And uh… and I didn't really believe her at that time, 558 00:45:50,814 --> 00:45:54,518 but it, you know, but my will started turning, I started thinking about it. 559 00:45:54,518 --> 00:46:02,025 And then when I was cleaning out her house, I found… all of my old IEPs that she had kept all of these years, right? 560 00:46:02,025 --> 00:46:06,196 You know, I mean, and so it's like she knew that she was going to have to tell me one day. 561 00:46:06,196 --> 00:46:13,270 Um, you know, but it finally got out. But back then, it was hidden, right? 562 00:46:13,270 --> 00:46:17,574 That was the normal thing to do in, um, you know, I was born in 75, you know, 563 00:46:17,574 --> 00:46:20,544 and so it was the normal thing to do throughout the 70s and the 80s, 564 00:46:20,544 --> 00:46:24,848 to hide your disability, and it wasn't something that you were going to be proud about. 565 00:46:24,848 --> 00:46:27,784 And that's one of the main things that I love about Lachi, right? 566 00:46:27,784 --> 00:46:33,423 It's like, she is just like, I am blind, this is my… this is part of my identity, right? 567 00:46:33,423 --> 00:46:40,264 Like, there's no way that she could not claim that as part of her identity, and be authentic, and there is… 568 00:46:40,264 --> 00:46:43,634 a bravery in that, that I really love and respect, right? 569 00:46:43,634 --> 00:46:49,373 And that's part of what drew me to RAMPD, is all of these disabled artists that are… 570 00:46:49,373 --> 00:46:53,410 wearing it on their sleeve, right? And they're willing to share that, and… 571 00:46:53,410 --> 00:46:59,216 because there's actually a whole lot more disabled artists than you would ever know. 572 00:46:59,216 --> 00:47:05,822 But they are hiding it, right? Um, and they are managing their invisible disabilities, 573 00:47:05,822 --> 00:47:08,959 even to the point where they may be getting accommodations, 574 00:47:08,959 --> 00:47:12,763 but they still keep that disability part covert. 575 00:47:12,763 --> 00:47:18,936 Because they're afraid of discrimination, right? Or they're afraid that they would lose work, or lose respect, 576 00:47:18,936 --> 00:47:24,441 and now, you know, we're at this trend where… and of course, people are being called "sickfluencers," 577 00:47:24,441 --> 00:47:28,545 or they're being shamed for sharing their stories on social media, and 578 00:47:28,545 --> 00:47:32,749 you know, and I'm not gonna say that everything that's ever posted on social media is true, right? 579 00:47:32,749 --> 00:47:34,618 Like, I'm not… I can't claim that. 580 00:47:34,618 --> 00:47:41,992 But there are so many authentic people that are desperately just trying to share their story, right? 581 00:47:41,992 --> 00:47:47,197 And, like, this is what my experiences are, and they may not be highlighted in 582 00:47:47,197 --> 00:47:54,605 all the TV shows that you see in, you know, mainstream TV, or, you know, I mean, and so… 583 00:47:54,638 --> 00:48:01,378 It is that, um, that voice from people that don't always get the microphone, right? 584 00:48:01,378 --> 00:48:09,820 And, um, and that, to me, is what's important about disability culture and disability justice and disability joy, 585 00:48:09,820 --> 00:48:15,659 and, you know, for so long, like, when I started Disabled to the Front, I had a friend of mine who was blind, 586 00:48:15,659 --> 00:48:20,797 I was in, like, this empowered ladies group, and we were talking about things that I could do 587 00:48:20,797 --> 00:48:24,868 with my massive skill set, right? Like, what can Dr. Cyn do? 588 00:48:24,868 --> 00:48:29,940 And my friend just said, Cyn, we study disaster training, 589 00:48:29,940 --> 00:48:35,679 we work on ways to get me to the doctor and back safely, we focus on housing. 590 00:48:35,679 --> 00:48:38,949 She said, I just want to party! 591 00:48:38,949 --> 00:48:44,521 She said, I just want to have fun, you know? I mean, and so I was like, oh. 592 00:48:44,521 --> 00:48:48,859 I can do that, right? Like, that may be what I'm on this earth to do, 593 00:48:48,859 --> 00:48:52,496 is to fight for disabled people's right to party, 594 00:48:52,496 --> 00:48:57,167 and that doesn't mean I'm gonna back off of housing or healthcare, or 595 00:48:57,167 --> 00:49:01,738 any of the other things that disabled people have a right to access. 596 00:49:01,738 --> 00:49:06,777 But my particular personality and experiences has led me 597 00:49:06,777 --> 00:49:12,416 to use all of my social capital and intellectual capital 598 00:49:12,416 --> 00:49:15,352 to fight for disabled people's right to party, 599 00:49:15,352 --> 00:49:19,623 and I just feel so purposeful in that, and there's so much joy in that. 600 00:49:19,623 --> 00:49:24,995 And I just feel like the luckiest girl in the world. I'm living my dream, you know? 601 00:49:24,995 --> 00:49:30,300 And my body may hurt, you know, from having these disabilities, and I may struggle with 602 00:49:30,300 --> 00:49:35,539 some conditions and managing my sensitivities, and all of the things that come with being disabled. 603 00:49:35,539 --> 00:49:40,777 But there is a joy that comes from surviving that process. 604 00:49:40,777 --> 00:49:45,549 And now, through RAMPD, and I get to survive it with my comrades, right? 605 00:49:45,549 --> 00:49:49,519 With other people that have lived that experience, too. 606 00:49:49,519 --> 00:49:53,223 And their strength, and the numbers, right? 607 00:49:53,223 --> 00:49:58,462 And, like, recently with Disabled to the Front, there were a group of us that went stomping down Broadway, 608 00:49:58,462 --> 00:50:01,765 and I don't know if you've ever been to Nashville, but Broadway is, 609 00:50:01,765 --> 00:50:07,003 um, it's a bit like Bourbon Street in New Orleans these days, right, where they just kind of close off the streets 610 00:50:07,003 --> 00:50:11,608 and you can carry your drinks around from bars, and there's music and dancing. 611 00:50:11,608 --> 00:50:18,582 All kinds of… all kinds of silliness, right? Um, rooftop bars, you know, and disabled people, right, it's not… 612 00:50:18,582 --> 00:50:20,617 I mean, we're down there a lot. Like, if you go down there, 613 00:50:20,617 --> 00:50:24,921 you see a lot of people with disabilities trying to experience that time. 614 00:50:24,921 --> 00:50:29,559 And the mayor has done a lot of work to improve the sidewalk, the width of the sidewalk, 615 00:50:29,559 --> 00:50:33,764 the levelness, right, so that people with mobility devices can get down there. 616 00:50:33,764 --> 00:50:37,868 But it was so fun. Stomping through that crowd 617 00:50:37,868 --> 00:50:42,406 with, like, two people in wheelchairs, two with walkers, two with a cane, right? 618 00:50:42,406 --> 00:50:46,043 You know, I mean, and just being in that crowd 619 00:50:46,043 --> 00:50:51,948 made me feel so good. Like, I was not alone, sitting in the back of a venue. 620 00:50:51,948 --> 00:50:58,588 I had a group of people with me, and we were all dead set on having a good time. 621 00:50:58,588 --> 00:51:04,161 Right? And that is how I'm gonna carry it forward. 622 00:51:04,161 --> 00:51:08,098 [Diane:] Nice way of seeing it. I love it! I want to party, too! 623 00:51:08,098 --> 00:51:13,837 [Cynthia:] Oh, well, come to Nashville, we're gonna have some parties. I'll plan some events in Toronto. 624 00:51:14,471 --> 00:51:18,842 [Diane:] Well, I have a last question for you. And it's about 625 00:51:18,842 --> 00:51:24,748 people who might have, uh, changed your perspective in the music you're making, 626 00:51:24,748 --> 00:51:27,984 or motivated you to do something different. 627 00:51:27,984 --> 00:51:30,353 If you have people to think of, 628 00:51:30,353 --> 00:51:34,724 and it can be more than one, who would it be and why? 629 00:51:35,859 --> 00:51:42,466 [Cynthia:] Well, um, I have to say, Kathleen Hanna, who is the singer from Bikini Kill and Le Tigre, 630 00:51:42,466 --> 00:51:51,441 and she was the media-appointed head of the Riot Girl movement in the 90s, and 631 00:51:51,441 --> 00:51:54,945 you know, and at the time, she did not have disabilities, you know, like, 632 00:51:54,945 --> 00:51:57,914 you know, during the… at the peak of her career, 633 00:51:57,914 --> 00:52:01,551 although she may be having another peek, right? But she got Lyme disease, right? 634 00:52:01,551 --> 00:52:04,054 And so she deals with a lot of chronic fatigue, 635 00:52:04,054 --> 00:52:09,226 and there's actually a documentary called The Punk Singer that goes into that and tells her story. 636 00:52:09,226 --> 00:52:15,699 But she is now in her, goodness, late 50s, and is touring again. 637 00:52:15,699 --> 00:52:22,038 And is, you know, and doing all the Riot Girl things that she used to do in the 90s, 638 00:52:22,038 --> 00:52:25,775 and that is so inspiring to me, and, 639 00:52:25,775 --> 00:52:30,447 you know, it was inspiring when I was younger, and it's inspiring now. 640 00:52:30,447 --> 00:52:36,419 Um, you know, so I'm 50, right? You know, I mean, and, you know, some people would think, oh, that's too old to start a punk band, 641 00:52:36,419 --> 00:52:40,724 and I'm like, no, that's exactly the perfect time to start a punk band, actually. 642 00:52:40,724 --> 00:52:46,163 And it takes these older artists that are still out there just killing it, right? 643 00:52:46,163 --> 00:52:49,733 You know, to motivate me to say, okay, well, 644 00:52:49,733 --> 00:52:54,604 if she can do all of this with her chronic fatigue, then I can do this with my chronic fatigue, 645 00:52:54,604 --> 00:52:58,808 and I'm just gonna find different ways of doing it, right? 646 00:52:58,808 --> 00:53:06,950 I also love Lady Gaga. She has fibromyalgia and migraines, which are both conditions that I manage as well. 647 00:53:06,950 --> 00:53:11,855 And, um, and she's got, uh, I think her documentary's called 5'2". 648 00:53:11,855 --> 00:53:16,026 And it goes into her struggle with those conditions, and 649 00:53:16,026 --> 00:53:22,065 you know, and I can really relate to how with a serious, complex migraine disorder. 650 00:53:22,065 --> 00:53:27,404 Like, I can look perfectly fine, you know, totally invisible disabilities. 651 00:53:27,404 --> 00:53:30,507 And then somebody can walk by me with perfume 652 00:53:30,507 --> 00:53:35,579 and it can send me into a crumble pile of rags on the floor 653 00:53:35,579 --> 00:53:39,749 where my brain just... electrical misfires take over 654 00:53:39,749 --> 00:53:41,618 and shuts me down, you know, 655 00:53:41,618 --> 00:53:45,789 of no control of my own, so don't ever wear perfume around me, right? 656 00:53:45,789 --> 00:53:50,527 But little things like that, you know, they're just out of your control 657 00:53:50,527 --> 00:53:54,497 when you have these health conditions, and you know, you're really dependent upon 658 00:53:54,497 --> 00:53:59,202 the environment to help you sort of manage those, and um… 659 00:53:59,202 --> 00:54:02,872 but watching Lady Gaga, because she's so active, right? 660 00:54:02,872 --> 00:54:08,378 I've got mobility issues and stuff that she doesn't deal with on top of those conditions, but um… 661 00:54:08,378 --> 00:54:13,683 But she gets so much done, right? She's so prolific, and she accomplishes so much 662 00:54:13,683 --> 00:54:19,189 because she demands the right medical care and the right treatment, right, to be able to 663 00:54:19,189 --> 00:54:24,628 manage those conditions, and of course, she's got money and a staff all around her that help her manage that. 664 00:54:24,628 --> 00:54:28,331 Maybe one day I'll get that, I don't know, but right now, I'm thankful 665 00:54:28,331 --> 00:54:32,402 for my friends and family that support me and help me, uh, you know, 666 00:54:32,402 --> 00:54:36,373 manage my environment, you know, to be able to do that. 667 00:54:36,373 --> 00:54:40,910 But I would have to say that those two are the biggest sort of inspirations 668 00:54:40,910 --> 00:54:46,916 um, that motivate me to get out here and do this, you know? 669 00:54:47,684 --> 00:54:51,988 [Diane:] Well, thank you so much for sharing your story, 670 00:54:51,988 --> 00:54:56,393 and everything awesome that you're doing, we're gonna definitely 671 00:54:56,393 --> 00:55:00,397 publish that on the ArtsAbly's website, and so that people can 672 00:55:00,397 --> 00:55:05,568 find the zine, find your website, and have access to all that, too. 673 00:55:05,568 --> 00:55:13,276 And, um, all the best for the single, right? That is getting out. And the whole album. 674 00:55:13,910 --> 00:55:19,883 [Cynthia:] Yes, thank you so much, and if any disabled people come to Nashville, hit me up, let's party. 675 00:55:21,151 --> 00:55:23,153 [Diane:] Well, thank you, have a great day. 676 00:55:23,153 --> 00:55:25,155 [Cynthia:] Thank you so much. 677 00:55:25,655 --> 00:55:30,660 ♪ Closing theme music ♪