1 00:00:01,000 --> 00:00:06,006 ♪ Opening theme music ♪ 2 00:00:13,046 --> 00:00:17,283 [Diane:] Hello, and welcome to this episode of ArtsAbly in Conversation. 3 00:00:17,283 --> 00:00:19,185 My name is Diane Kolin. 4 00:00:19,252 --> 00:00:24,824 This series presents artists, academics, and project leaders who dedicate their 5 00:00:24,858 --> 00:00:29,829 time and energy to a better accessibility for people with disabilities in the arts. 6 00:00:30,864 --> 00:00:36,002 You can find more of these conversations on our website, artsably.com, 7 00:00:36,002 --> 00:00:41,007 which is spelled A-R-T-S-A-B-L-Y dot com. 8 00:00:42,008 --> 00:00:47,013 ♪ Theme music ♪ 9 00:00:54,587 --> 00:00:58,024 [Diane:] Today, ArtsAbly is in conversation with David Bobier, 10 00:00:58,024 --> 00:01:02,662 a Canadian media artist, founder of VibraFusionLab 11 00:01:02,662 --> 00:01:05,598 in Hamilton, Ontario, in Canada. 12 00:01:05,598 --> 00:01:09,335 You can find the resources mentioned by David Bobier during this episode 13 00:01:09,335 --> 00:01:12,772 on ArtsAbly's website, in the blog section. 14 00:01:13,573 --> 00:01:17,143 [Diane:] Welcome to this new episode of ArtsAbly in Conversation. 15 00:01:17,143 --> 00:01:21,281 My name is Diane Kolin, and today I have a special guest, 16 00:01:21,314 --> 00:01:23,450 and I am in a special place. 17 00:01:23,450 --> 00:01:27,654 I am with David Bobier, and I am in this lab, 18 00:01:27,654 --> 00:01:29,122 and he's going to explain us 19 00:01:29,122 --> 00:01:32,258 where we are exactly. Welcome, David. 20 00:01:32,258 --> 00:01:33,460 [David:] Thank you. 21 00:01:33,460 --> 00:01:35,562 Nice to meet. Nice to have you here. 22 00:01:35,595 --> 00:01:38,164 [Diane:] Yes. Thank you for welcoming me here. I really appreciate. 23 00:01:38,164 --> 00:01:39,099 [David:] Absolutely. 24 00:01:39,099 --> 00:01:41,701 [Diane:] So this is a fantastic place. 25 00:01:41,701 --> 00:01:45,171 How did your interest for music 26 00:01:45,171 --> 00:01:48,775 and also technology start? 27 00:01:49,576 --> 00:01:52,512 [David:] Well, so I guess 28 00:01:52,512 --> 00:01:57,317 I will go back to my childhood 29 00:01:57,317 --> 00:02:02,589 and my family, generations actually of musicians. 30 00:02:02,989 --> 00:02:05,525 I grew up in a rural community, 31 00:02:05,592 --> 00:02:10,063 so I guess you would sort of say old country. 32 00:02:10,096 --> 00:02:15,735 But my dad sang, had a beautiful voice, 33 00:02:15,735 --> 00:02:18,671 and he yodled 34 00:02:18,671 --> 00:02:23,309 and played multiple instruments. 35 00:02:23,309 --> 00:02:27,614 My grandfather and my great uncle also 36 00:02:27,647 --> 00:02:30,817 were violinists, and my other uncle is 37 00:02:30,850 --> 00:02:35,955 violinist, so I was surrounded by music, 38 00:02:36,489 --> 00:02:41,594 but I didn't didn't have the musical gene. 39 00:02:41,594 --> 00:02:43,096 It just didn't happen. 40 00:02:43,129 --> 00:02:49,602 I took some training lessons in piano and guitar, but it just didn't happen. 41 00:02:49,602 --> 00:02:54,974 So that was the early influence, I think. 42 00:02:55,542 --> 00:02:58,912 So I guess I could say maybe frustrated 43 00:02:58,912 --> 00:03:02,482 musician, but practicing artist. 44 00:03:02,482 --> 00:03:07,153 And I consider what I do through my own work and through 45 00:03:07,153 --> 00:03:13,626 VibraFusionLab is some manifestation of that experience of sound. 46 00:03:14,561 --> 00:03:17,964 I have a hearing loss as well. 47 00:03:17,964 --> 00:03:23,136 Experienced it, I guess, really from birth, but never really 48 00:03:23,136 --> 00:03:27,774 thought of it as any detriment. 49 00:03:27,774 --> 00:03:34,147 But the I think, around... 50 00:03:34,881 --> 00:03:42,555 My early work was really, it had a lot to do with sound, texture, 51 00:03:42,555 --> 00:03:47,927 source, where the sound came from. 52 00:03:47,927 --> 00:03:49,596 So I was doing a lot of... 53 00:03:49,596 --> 00:03:53,733 I got a job actually teaching at Mount Allison University 54 00:03:53,733 --> 00:03:57,870 back in the late '80s and early '90s. 55 00:03:57,870 --> 00:04:04,944 And I started then bridging the idea 56 00:04:04,978 --> 00:04:09,916 around technology and music and art. 57 00:04:10,683 --> 00:04:16,122 And Mount Allison University is in a small community, but it's known - 58 00:04:16,122 --> 00:04:20,193 Sackville, New Brunswick, but it's known, the history, 59 00:04:20,193 --> 00:04:25,898 it was manufacturing, and that was enterprising faucet. 60 00:04:25,898 --> 00:04:32,805 They were makers of furnaces and all kinds of appliances. 61 00:04:32,805 --> 00:04:37,977 So with that influence, 62 00:04:37,977 --> 00:04:40,947 I think in the community or in the history 63 00:04:40,947 --> 00:04:47,153 of the community, I started working with 64 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:50,323 familiar objects that made sound, 65 00:04:50,323 --> 00:04:54,961 but then playing around with that recorded sound. 66 00:04:55,128 --> 00:05:01,601 And so I was working with different household objects that created sound 67 00:05:01,634 --> 00:05:04,337 and turning them into installations. 68 00:05:04,370 --> 00:05:10,877 And I was also interested in how I could engage the audience. 69 00:05:10,877 --> 00:05:16,115 And so there was always some aspect of entering the work 70 00:05:16,115 --> 00:05:19,652 and actually allowing 71 00:05:19,652 --> 00:05:23,122 the viewer to become a participant in some 72 00:05:23,156 --> 00:05:28,561 way or another, whether it was activating the work or changing sound 73 00:05:28,561 --> 00:05:31,698 effects, that sort of thing. 74 00:05:31,698 --> 00:05:38,438 And then during that period of time, we adopted two deaf children. 75 00:05:39,238 --> 00:05:43,710 And they were aged 2 and 10 months. 76 00:05:43,710 --> 00:05:50,850 And so the whole period of raising them, 77 00:05:51,984 --> 00:05:55,755 sound became 78 00:05:55,755 --> 00:06:02,095 an issue, something that was more prevalent than I think it was before. 79 00:06:02,128 --> 00:06:04,664 How are they experiencing sound? 80 00:06:04,697 --> 00:06:11,604 How are they reacting to sound in a space and watching and observing, and became, 81 00:06:11,604 --> 00:06:17,643 through them, became actively involved in the deaf community. 82 00:06:18,077 --> 00:06:26,319 And in the '90s, I actually created an exhibition 83 00:06:26,319 --> 00:06:28,354 that was about that experience. 84 00:06:28,354 --> 00:06:30,389 And it was called... 85 00:06:30,389 --> 00:06:33,092 What was it called? 86 00:06:34,193 --> 00:06:37,964 Oh, shoot, I forget. 87 00:06:38,231 --> 00:06:41,601 Anyway, I'll get back to it. 88 00:06:41,634 --> 00:06:45,872 But it was an exhibition of a number of installations 89 00:06:45,872 --> 00:06:50,810 that looked at the history of deaf culture, it looked at language, 90 00:06:50,810 --> 00:06:54,547 and it incorporated all this information into the installations, 91 00:06:54,547 --> 00:06:57,250 and it traveled around Ontario. 92 00:06:57,250 --> 00:07:03,289 I think it was probably, from what I sense now, one of the first 93 00:07:03,289 --> 00:07:06,392 exhibitions that really explored that. 94 00:07:06,392 --> 00:07:12,265 There was a catalogue for that as well. 95 00:07:12,265 --> 00:07:17,036 So I think the combination of all of that 96 00:07:17,036 --> 00:07:23,776 took me in the direction of, as an artist, 97 00:07:23,776 --> 00:07:25,912 obviously incorporating sound. 98 00:07:25,912 --> 00:07:32,552 But at the same time, this would be 99 00:07:32,552 --> 00:07:38,157 2010, I think, around that period of time, 100 00:07:38,157 --> 00:07:42,361 Ryerson University, which is now called Toronto Metropolitan University, as you know. 101 00:07:42,361 --> 00:07:47,967 There's a department there that's now called Inclusive Media and Design Center. 102 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:55,408 And back then, they were working on a project to develop a 103 00:07:55,408 --> 00:07:58,377 theater chair for the deaf. 104 00:07:58,377 --> 00:08:00,713 So there was like... 105 00:08:00,713 --> 00:08:05,351 I think they worked on that for probably four or five years. 106 00:08:05,351 --> 00:08:11,224 And I heard of it, and they were doing a public performance 107 00:08:11,224 --> 00:08:15,761 or public display of this work in a bar, 108 00:08:15,761 --> 00:08:19,665 Clinton Bar, it's called, in Toronto. 109 00:08:19,665 --> 00:08:25,471 So I heard about it, took the kids, And they tried out 110 00:08:25,471 --> 00:08:27,039 and met some people there. 111 00:08:27,039 --> 00:08:32,578 Anyway, I proposed to Deb Fels, 112 00:08:32,612 --> 00:08:39,752 who was the leader of that project, 113 00:08:40,453 --> 00:08:45,391 that the work that they were doing needed 114 00:08:45,391 --> 00:08:50,730 to be explored in a more public setting. 115 00:08:50,730 --> 00:08:56,035 And this is sort of what you'd mentioned this earlier about 116 00:08:56,035 --> 00:09:01,274 academic research needs to have more legs than 117 00:09:01,274 --> 00:09:04,277 within the confines of the university. 118 00:09:04,277 --> 00:09:09,715 So I worked with him for a bit, and then I suggested that we start doing 119 00:09:09,715 --> 00:09:16,756 some workshops outside of the university, and I coordinated those. 120 00:09:16,756 --> 00:09:24,363 And then we collaborated on a SSHRC grant 121 00:09:24,363 --> 00:09:27,800 to establish VibraFusionLab, 122 00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:31,604 but outside of the university. 123 00:09:31,604 --> 00:09:33,572 And so we were successful. 124 00:09:33,606 --> 00:09:37,877 We set up the first VibraFusionLab 125 00:09:37,877 --> 00:09:43,916 in London, Ontario, in 2012, 126 00:09:44,517 --> 00:09:48,721 and operated there for about three years. 127 00:09:49,422 --> 00:09:54,327 And during that period of time, it just became a drop-in 128 00:09:54,327 --> 00:09:57,964 center for musicians, for artists, 129 00:09:57,964 --> 00:10:01,734 for underground bands. 130 00:10:01,767 --> 00:10:08,541 It became this place where people could come together 131 00:10:08,574 --> 00:10:13,312 and enjoy music and experience. 132 00:10:13,312 --> 00:10:18,384 The technology that had been developed 133 00:10:18,417 --> 00:10:22,254 at Ryerson essentially got transported into VibraFusionLab. 134 00:10:22,288 --> 00:10:28,494 We had all these chairs and all kinds of vibrating stuff. 135 00:10:28,494 --> 00:10:31,564 That's when I first actually met Jesse. 136 00:10:31,564 --> 00:10:33,566 I invited Jesse to come. 137 00:10:33,599 --> 00:10:38,237 Jesse Stewart. That was remarkable. 138 00:10:38,237 --> 00:10:45,411 People like Gordon Monahan, who's an international sound artist, 139 00:10:45,411 --> 00:10:47,747 Marla Hlady from Toronto. 140 00:10:47,747 --> 00:10:52,952 I just wanted to connect with people, so I just contacted them and said, 141 00:10:52,952 --> 00:10:54,520 would you want to come? 142 00:10:54,520 --> 00:10:58,891 I was able to fund everything, so pay them to be there. 143 00:10:59,725 --> 00:11:01,927 That last for three years. 144 00:11:01,927 --> 00:11:04,063 [Diane:] Wow! 145 00:11:04,063 --> 00:11:06,465 So when did you move here in Hamilton? 146 00:11:06,465 --> 00:11:08,434 [David:] Yeah, so. 147 00:11:08,434 --> 00:11:15,307 We actually moved to Hamilton in, what's it, 2025. 148 00:11:15,307 --> 00:11:20,312 I think in 2023. 149 00:11:20,846 --> 00:11:23,883 We had been doing some projects. 150 00:11:23,916 --> 00:11:27,753 We'd partnered on some projects with Centre 3, which is an art 151 00:11:27,753 --> 00:11:30,389 center here in Hamilton. 152 00:11:30,389 --> 00:11:33,826 We'd already been working on a few 153 00:11:33,826 --> 00:11:38,564 projects together, and they located a 154 00:11:38,564 --> 00:11:42,401 factory building that would had been renovated. 155 00:11:42,535 --> 00:11:47,640 And so the proposal was that they would move into that space and we would move 156 00:11:47,673 --> 00:11:52,445 into that space, which is here in Hamilton. 157 00:11:52,445 --> 00:11:55,981 We did that and got set up. 158 00:11:56,015 --> 00:12:00,252 And within a year, the building was up for sale. 159 00:12:00,252 --> 00:12:03,122 So that ended that whole... 160 00:12:03,155 --> 00:12:05,324 And it was amazing. 161 00:12:05,357 --> 00:12:11,263 It was like 5,000 square foot space, all open windows, everything. 162 00:12:11,297 --> 00:12:15,000 Anyway, it was great. But then... 163 00:12:15,034 --> 00:12:19,905 So we then moved here in 2024 into this space. 164 00:12:19,905 --> 00:12:20,506 [Diane:] Okay. 165 00:12:20,539 --> 00:12:24,243 And can you talk a bit about the type of projects you're leading when you 166 00:12:24,276 --> 00:12:26,679 are getting together with artists? 167 00:12:27,413 --> 00:12:29,849 [David:] Yeah. 168 00:12:29,849 --> 00:12:37,123 Gosh, it varies quite a lot from one artist to another. 169 00:12:37,123 --> 00:12:42,161 So we started offering residencies here. 170 00:12:42,228 --> 00:12:45,998 Last fall, we had two sets of residencies. 171 00:12:46,499 --> 00:12:52,872 But a lot of projects start from people coming to us. 172 00:12:52,872 --> 00:12:54,640 I'm just trying to think. 173 00:12:54,673 --> 00:13:00,946 We worked with a deaf performance artist in Edmonton. 174 00:13:00,946 --> 00:13:07,486 He was working on a project, a performance piece 175 00:13:07,486 --> 00:13:11,123 that was called Carbon Movements. 176 00:13:11,123 --> 00:13:14,560 And it was exploring 177 00:13:14,560 --> 00:13:19,398 or addressing the climate situation. 178 00:13:20,032 --> 00:13:23,435 But for that project, we built a raised 179 00:13:23,435 --> 00:13:27,773 stage and motorized the stage underneath. 180 00:13:27,773 --> 00:13:31,977 And the stage was covered with about two inches of black rice. 181 00:13:31,977 --> 00:13:34,446 And this was a full-size stage. 182 00:13:34,446 --> 00:13:39,385 So the motors would be activated and the black rice would move 183 00:13:39,385 --> 00:13:42,288 based on the vibration of the motors. 184 00:13:42,655 --> 00:13:47,760 That was one project that came to us. 185 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:52,698 Another one is a double leg amputee 186 00:13:52,698 --> 00:13:56,569 Circus aerialist, Erin Ball. 187 00:13:56,569 --> 00:13:58,637 Who you - 188 00:13:58,637 --> 00:14:05,077 Erin, I think everyone knows about Erin, and her partner, Maxime Beauregard. 189 00:14:05,077 --> 00:14:08,614 We've done two workshops with them already. 190 00:14:09,348 --> 00:14:12,952 And with them, we're exploring their 191 00:14:12,952 --> 00:14:18,123 movement in the air and tracking it 192 00:14:18,123 --> 00:14:25,331 and allowing that motion, that movement, to either create sound or activate sound. 193 00:14:25,865 --> 00:14:29,201 But the direction we're going with that is 194 00:14:29,235 --> 00:14:33,472 that we're able to monitor her heartbeat, 195 00:14:33,472 --> 00:14:37,843 and so that we're using the heartbeat as a sound element for the piece. 196 00:14:37,876 --> 00:14:44,917 And as she moves, the movement changes, but also the heartbeat 197 00:14:44,917 --> 00:14:47,186 changes itself as she moves. 198 00:14:47,186 --> 00:14:52,091 So we're not quite sure where that's going to end up, but that's 199 00:14:52,124 --> 00:14:54,827 the direction that's going. 200 00:14:55,227 --> 00:15:01,767 We just started - Travis Knights, who is a professional tap dancer, 201 00:15:01,767 --> 00:15:06,672 was just here a few days ago, and we're going to be working 202 00:15:06,672 --> 00:15:09,875 with him and another tap dancer. 203 00:15:10,309 --> 00:15:14,480 And the intention there is to place 204 00:15:14,947 --> 00:15:20,786 contact mics or piezos under the metal part 205 00:15:20,786 --> 00:15:25,057 next to the sole of the shoe so that their tap 206 00:15:25,057 --> 00:15:31,163 and their movement of their foot will activate or change the sound that we're 207 00:15:31,196 --> 00:15:35,267 recording from the board that they're tapping on. 208 00:15:35,968 --> 00:15:38,637 Yeah, that's one. 209 00:15:38,637 --> 00:15:45,077 We worked with a burlesque group of 210 00:15:46,512 --> 00:15:51,483 intellectually delayed performers in Calgary. 211 00:15:52,451 --> 00:15:53,686 Was... 212 00:15:53,686 --> 00:15:55,721 Never worked in burlesque before, 213 00:15:55,754 --> 00:16:01,727 but just amazing creation and art 214 00:16:01,794 --> 00:16:07,032 form happening in that area of the arts. 215 00:16:07,499 --> 00:16:11,337 Yeah, and also I think the other part that we're... 216 00:16:11,337 --> 00:16:14,239 So VibraFusionLab is built 217 00:16:14,239 --> 00:16:18,410 around two foundations. 218 00:16:18,677 --> 00:16:22,414 One is to support deaf and disabled artists 219 00:16:23,282 --> 00:16:30,122 in the creation of their work through whatever technology we can 220 00:16:30,556 --> 00:16:32,758 create for them or develop for them. 221 00:16:32,758 --> 00:16:37,496 And the other is to create access to art 222 00:16:37,496 --> 00:16:40,699 for audiences from the deaf and disability arts community. 223 00:16:40,733 --> 00:16:45,671 Those have been two very standard frameworks for VibraFusionLab 224 00:16:45,671 --> 00:16:49,475 and still are, I would say. 225 00:16:50,242 --> 00:16:56,215 We do a lot of setting up vibro tactile systems 226 00:16:56,215 --> 00:17:01,487 in theater spaces all across Canada, 227 00:17:01,553 --> 00:17:03,756 from Vancouver all the way out to Halifax. 228 00:17:03,756 --> 00:17:05,657 We've done that. 229 00:17:05,657 --> 00:17:10,229 And we can set up - We have pillows, vibro-tactile pillows. 230 00:17:10,229 --> 00:17:14,400 We have Woojer belts, which are a 231 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:17,536 commercial product that we use, 232 00:17:17,569 --> 00:17:24,610 and we can set up upwards of 100 systems in a space for the audience. 233 00:17:24,610 --> 00:17:26,979 [Diane:] I have a related question. 234 00:17:27,012 --> 00:17:34,686 You already replied a bit, but I was wondering what it meant for you 235 00:17:34,686 --> 00:17:39,792 to work in an environment where you improve, increase, 236 00:17:39,792 --> 00:17:44,430 make a better access to the arts in the disability community 237 00:17:44,430 --> 00:17:47,699 and in disability culture in general? 238 00:17:48,133 --> 00:17:51,370 [David:] Mmm... Yeah. So. 239 00:17:51,370 --> 00:17:55,107 What does it mean to me? 240 00:17:56,708 --> 00:18:03,348 Gosh, it's thrilling, but it's hard to encapsulate what it... 241 00:18:03,348 --> 00:18:08,654 It depends, too, on - every individual that we work with 242 00:18:08,654 --> 00:18:11,423 comes with certain conditions, 243 00:18:11,457 --> 00:18:16,361 certain needs, but also certain ideas. 244 00:18:17,162 --> 00:18:25,003 To just be an observer in all of that, 245 00:18:25,003 --> 00:18:31,410 and as an observer, to watch 246 00:18:32,244 --> 00:18:38,484 that process of creation, what happens from the point of saying, 247 00:18:38,517 --> 00:18:44,923 well, we have this for you, these various things in the space that you can 248 00:18:44,923 --> 00:18:52,164 work with, and how they transform that to make it their own. 249 00:18:52,164 --> 00:18:54,867 I think that's... Yeah, I think that's it. 250 00:18:54,867 --> 00:18:57,369 You know, to... 251 00:18:59,004 --> 00:19:03,442 For them to find that sort of direction 252 00:19:03,442 --> 00:19:08,280 and to be able to observe that and to be able to support it. 253 00:19:09,047 --> 00:19:13,986 I often... When I talk about Vibrofusion Lab or myself, 254 00:19:13,986 --> 00:19:16,889 I often talk about we're facilitators. 255 00:19:17,389 --> 00:19:21,093 We're just here to guide and offer 256 00:19:21,126 --> 00:19:25,397 and then support and however we can. 257 00:19:25,497 --> 00:19:29,968 And I'm deeply committed to supporting 258 00:19:30,002 --> 00:19:33,639 the artist for everything. 259 00:19:34,506 --> 00:19:37,776 I always try to make sure we... 260 00:19:37,809 --> 00:19:45,017 We obviously pay well for artist fees, but accommodation, per diem, travel. 261 00:19:45,017 --> 00:19:51,924 I really don't want the artist to have the cost to be here, 262 00:19:51,924 --> 00:19:55,661 That it costs them something to be here. 263 00:19:56,328 --> 00:20:00,132 However we can manage that, it's true. 264 00:20:00,132 --> 00:20:01,533 We don't have operating funding. 265 00:20:01,533 --> 00:20:06,171 We don't function on operating funding. 266 00:20:06,171 --> 00:20:11,310 We work from project to project, but also people come with projects. 267 00:20:11,843 --> 00:20:18,750 It's a little bit tenuous at times, but 268 00:20:18,750 --> 00:20:23,255 we're fortunate to be able to still be doing what we're doing and to have a space 269 00:20:23,555 --> 00:20:29,494 And to say that, yeah, we have... 270 00:20:29,561 --> 00:20:35,467 It's just a place to play, essentially. 271 00:20:36,001 --> 00:20:40,806 [Diane:] I have a last question for you before, maybe we can explore 272 00:20:40,839 --> 00:20:42,741 some of the elements we have in the room. 273 00:20:42,774 --> 00:20:47,646 I was wondering if during your career, 274 00:20:47,646 --> 00:20:50,983 you met people who really counted for you or 275 00:20:51,016 --> 00:20:53,585 really transformed the way you were seeing. 276 00:20:53,585 --> 00:20:58,257 Despite family, I know that you have two sons 277 00:20:58,257 --> 00:21:01,893 who are deaf, but in the disability 278 00:21:01,927 --> 00:21:07,466 culture community, did you meet people who really marked you in your career? 279 00:21:07,466 --> 00:21:10,769 And you can name more than one if you want. 280 00:21:10,869 --> 00:21:13,872 Who are they and why? 281 00:21:15,007 --> 00:21:19,378 I worked with an artist, 282 00:21:19,378 --> 00:21:25,350 a deaf dancer, choreographer from the UK 283 00:21:25,350 --> 00:21:33,725 and I won't say it was... not totally amicable, 284 00:21:33,725 --> 00:21:36,695 but I would say influential 285 00:21:36,695 --> 00:21:40,399 in terms of 286 00:21:40,399 --> 00:21:44,670 the kind of project that we worked on and the access 287 00:21:44,703 --> 00:21:51,143 it gave me to other venues, other people. 288 00:21:51,143 --> 00:21:56,248 And so her name is Chisato Minamimura, 289 00:21:56,248 --> 00:22:00,352 and she was working on a project called Scored in Silence. 290 00:22:01,053 --> 00:22:05,991 She's Japanese, and as I said, deaf, 291 00:22:05,991 --> 00:22:09,261 but she's in the UK. She lives in London, UK. 292 00:22:10,095 --> 00:22:13,365 And the project was 293 00:22:13,365 --> 00:22:17,502 to investigate the experience 294 00:22:17,502 --> 00:22:22,140 of deaf people during the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. 295 00:22:22,974 --> 00:22:29,281 Very profoundly difficult project. 296 00:22:29,281 --> 00:22:35,887 But she spent time in Japan and actually located some deaf survivors. 297 00:22:36,388 --> 00:22:38,423 So she interviewed them. 298 00:22:38,423 --> 00:22:44,262 There was also some earlier footage from interviews that she was able to obtain. 299 00:22:44,262 --> 00:22:48,200 But one of the things that she discovered was that, 300 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:54,106 and at that period of time, it wasn't unusual for 301 00:22:54,106 --> 00:22:58,577 deaf people or people with disabilities to be kept in a room, 302 00:22:58,577 --> 00:23:00,746 essentially, or institutionalized. 303 00:23:00,746 --> 00:23:05,684 So the truth of the matter was that deaf people 304 00:23:05,684 --> 00:23:07,819 didn't even know there was a war going on. 305 00:23:07,819 --> 00:23:11,256 They were so isolated from the world around them. 306 00:23:11,289 --> 00:23:18,330 And when the bombings happened, the first - the instant that happened, 307 00:23:18,330 --> 00:23:22,434 it was this amazing experience for them. 308 00:23:22,434 --> 00:23:25,370 They didn't know what it was, but 309 00:23:25,370 --> 00:23:28,507 deeply affected, obviously, some were injured, some were... 310 00:23:28,707 --> 00:23:32,911 One fellow talks about how he's 311 00:23:33,578 --> 00:23:37,015 thrown across a space. 312 00:23:37,015 --> 00:23:41,787 But anyway, so she did a whole piece around that. 313 00:23:42,254 --> 00:23:48,760 And it toured, we had it here in Toronto and Hamilton. 314 00:23:49,528 --> 00:23:50,862 I don't know if you had a chance to see it. 315 00:23:50,862 --> 00:23:51,563 [Diane:] Yes. 316 00:23:51,563 --> 00:23:52,898 [David:] You did? Okay. 317 00:23:52,898 --> 00:23:54,733 So you know exactly what I'm talking about. 318 00:23:54,733 --> 00:23:57,836 But anyway. Also, it toured in the UK, too. 319 00:23:57,836 --> 00:24:01,440 And then it ended up at the Edinburgh Festival. 320 00:24:01,973 --> 00:24:04,743 So that experience of the touring 321 00:24:04,743 --> 00:24:07,646 was really interesting to me because I'm always... 322 00:24:07,646 --> 00:24:10,682 Theater has always intrigued me. 323 00:24:11,049 --> 00:24:15,687 What happens in the background really intrigues me. 324 00:24:15,687 --> 00:24:17,289 And so that was interesting. 325 00:24:17,289 --> 00:24:24,729 But I would say Jesse Stewart in a very different way. 326 00:24:24,729 --> 00:24:29,201 Just his personality, 327 00:24:30,302 --> 00:24:35,640 his calmness, his peacefulness, 328 00:24:36,274 --> 00:24:42,013 his amazing, amazing ability. 329 00:24:43,081 --> 00:24:46,117 And... Gosh, so many. 330 00:24:46,117 --> 00:24:48,620 Jenelle Rouse, I think, for sure. 331 00:24:48,620 --> 00:24:52,958 A very influential close friend. 332 00:24:53,191 --> 00:24:58,964 I think a lot of people that still have 333 00:24:58,964 --> 00:25:03,535 influenced me are close friends. 334 00:25:03,702 --> 00:25:09,941 And it's hard to sort of 335 00:25:10,575 --> 00:25:12,477 come up with one or two people. 336 00:25:12,477 --> 00:25:14,779 I think that everybody I worked with 337 00:25:15,413 --> 00:25:20,352 influences me and drives me forward, 338 00:25:20,352 --> 00:25:26,892 keeps my passion going for what I'm doing, and the surprise of what's coming next, 339 00:25:26,892 --> 00:25:29,127 because we never know. 340 00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:31,496 And the thrill of... 341 00:25:32,130 --> 00:25:39,704 I always say I create the projects and create the problems, 342 00:25:39,704 --> 00:25:41,339 and Jim is here to fix them. 343 00:25:41,339 --> 00:25:46,578 So Jim, I should mention, Jim Ruxton is a media artist 344 00:25:46,578 --> 00:25:51,216 and an electronics engineer, lives here in Hamilton. 345 00:25:51,883 --> 00:25:56,521 And he came on board VibraFusionLab about six or seven years ago 346 00:25:56,521 --> 00:26:01,293 and has been really the problem solver, I think. 347 00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:05,830 I didn't grow up with that tech background. 348 00:26:05,864 --> 00:26:11,136 So I think the partnership has really 349 00:26:11,136 --> 00:26:14,239 moved forward, moved VibraFusionLab 350 00:26:14,239 --> 00:26:21,146 forward in leaps and bounds in terms of how we can respond to people 351 00:26:21,146 --> 00:26:26,985 with what their objectives or goals 352 00:26:26,985 --> 00:26:29,187 or ideas are when they come to us. 353 00:26:29,220 --> 00:26:36,428 I would say Jim as well, a key person in terms of where we are. 354 00:26:37,929 --> 00:26:39,264 [Diane:] Thank you. 355 00:26:39,297 --> 00:26:43,068 I'm just looking around, and there are so many ways 356 00:26:43,068 --> 00:26:50,408 of exploring what vibration in sound is in this room where we are, in this lab. 357 00:26:50,408 --> 00:26:56,481 I was wondering if you could present some of the elements that are here, 358 00:26:56,481 --> 00:27:03,555 and we are going to move to the different places where they are. 359 00:27:03,555 --> 00:27:04,823 [David:] Sure. Yeah. 360 00:27:06,224 --> 00:27:09,427 ♪ Music is played from a computer in the background ♪ 361 00:27:09,694 --> 00:27:12,731 [Diane:] Okay, so what are we looking at right now? 362 00:27:13,131 --> 00:27:18,536 [David:] Okay, so what we're going to be looking at is a couple of... 363 00:27:18,536 --> 00:27:23,875 I just mentioned the vibro-tactile belt, but there's a couple of 364 00:27:24,275 --> 00:27:28,146 devices that we use quite commonly, 365 00:27:28,146 --> 00:27:32,217 in particular in theater situations. 366 00:27:32,717 --> 00:27:36,554 This is what's called the Woojer, we call it a belt. 367 00:27:36,554 --> 00:27:38,823 It's also called a strap. 368 00:27:39,324 --> 00:27:42,994 It's obviously made by a company called Woojer. 369 00:27:43,395 --> 00:27:48,466 And these kinds of companies, there's Subpac, Woojer, 370 00:27:48,466 --> 00:27:49,667 there's other smaller ones. 371 00:27:49,667 --> 00:27:54,906 But these products are designed primarily for gaming. 372 00:27:55,573 --> 00:27:59,678 But we found that the Woojer belt, 373 00:27:59,678 --> 00:28:02,647 because it's easy to travel, 374 00:28:02,647 --> 00:28:08,620 easy to ship around, because we do, as I say, installations 375 00:28:09,087 --> 00:28:14,159 anywhere that we get called, and it's a... 376 00:28:14,859 --> 00:28:20,365 It plugs directly into a live audio system 377 00:28:20,832 --> 00:28:23,568 or you can have live recording 378 00:28:23,568 --> 00:28:26,638 going directly into it. 379 00:28:27,505 --> 00:28:34,646 So the idea is that there's a transducer inside which vibrates to the sound that's... 380 00:28:35,447 --> 00:28:39,417 You don't hear the sound from the belt, but the vibration is there. 381 00:28:39,417 --> 00:28:41,953 You can adjust it. 382 00:28:44,856 --> 00:28:51,429 Yeah, so in the lab we have somewhere between 110 and 120 383 00:28:51,463 --> 00:28:56,835 of these that can be installed in a theater. 384 00:28:57,535 --> 00:29:03,808 We have a cabling system that we've designed, actually, 385 00:29:03,808 --> 00:29:09,881 Jim Ruxton designed, that can transmit 386 00:29:09,881 --> 00:29:14,586 the audio signal to that many belts. 387 00:29:15,253 --> 00:29:18,423 We also have a... 388 00:29:18,423 --> 00:29:24,963 Also have a vibrotactile pillow here. 389 00:29:25,864 --> 00:29:27,966 Inside is, again, a transducer. 390 00:29:27,999 --> 00:29:30,668 So a transducer is... 391 00:29:31,603 --> 00:29:33,204 I should have had one here. 392 00:29:33,204 --> 00:29:38,810 But it's designed much the same way as the speaker is, 393 00:29:38,810 --> 00:29:43,681 but it's designed to emphasize vibration of sound. 394 00:29:44,382 --> 00:29:48,486 So inside of the pillow is a transducer, 395 00:29:48,486 --> 00:29:53,391 and it's wired to just a small mini app here, 396 00:29:54,359 --> 00:29:56,995 which is connected to my computer. 397 00:29:57,495 --> 00:30:03,801 And I'm just going to play something from, I think, 398 00:30:03,801 --> 00:30:07,272 an Ethiopian band called Tinariwen. 399 00:30:08,439 --> 00:30:13,444 ♪ Singers singing a traditional song with an electric guitar playing ♪ 400 00:30:14,746 --> 00:30:19,050 So with the pillows, there is sound and vibration. 401 00:30:21,753 --> 00:30:24,823 I think you can hear the sound coming out of it now. 402 00:30:24,823 --> 00:30:30,128 But these are designed... 403 00:30:30,862 --> 00:30:33,531 They're soft, so they're easy to hold. 404 00:30:33,565 --> 00:30:36,568 They're very comfortable to hold. 405 00:30:37,202 --> 00:30:44,709 I really put a lot of emphasis on developing the pillow idea during COVID. 406 00:30:44,709 --> 00:30:48,713 And we also, at that time, we're working on a handheld system. 407 00:30:49,948 --> 00:30:55,153 The idea being that we want to reduce costs of this kind of technology 408 00:30:55,153 --> 00:31:00,491 so that people could actually purchase them for their own personal use. 409 00:31:01,292 --> 00:31:03,728 And something like this 410 00:31:03,728 --> 00:31:07,065 or any of these systems 411 00:31:07,065 --> 00:31:11,302 can be hooked up to your entertainment system at home. 412 00:31:11,302 --> 00:31:15,373 So you could be watching a movie and holding one of these pillows or 413 00:31:15,373 --> 00:31:19,210 listening to your favorite album and holding one of the pillows. 414 00:31:20,278 --> 00:31:22,914 But pushing the idea of the pillow forward, 415 00:31:22,914 --> 00:31:28,720 we now have a wireless vibrotactile pillow. 416 00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:31,856 So we're able to eliminate 417 00:31:31,856 --> 00:31:36,561 the cables, which, 418 00:31:36,661 --> 00:31:40,798 particularly if we're working with live theater and people are moving around, 419 00:31:40,798 --> 00:31:43,301 cabling becomes quite a 420 00:31:43,301 --> 00:31:47,972 difficult thing for people to maneuver. 421 00:31:47,972 --> 00:31:50,441 And so these you just... 422 00:31:50,808 --> 00:31:55,647 The Bluetooth is a fairly recent 423 00:31:55,647 --> 00:31:58,716 development in Bluetooth technology. 424 00:31:59,250 --> 00:32:06,557 And so these you can just connect to your iPhone or your computer, 425 00:32:06,557 --> 00:32:09,794 and you're free to move around. 426 00:32:10,161 --> 00:32:14,198 These are also really nice to hold. 427 00:32:14,198 --> 00:32:17,969 I've had people put them at their back. 428 00:32:17,969 --> 00:32:21,072 I've had people put them under their feet. 429 00:32:21,072 --> 00:32:28,279 So it's really flexible in terms of how you want to interact with them. 430 00:32:29,347 --> 00:32:32,383 I'll show you here. 431 00:32:32,383 --> 00:32:38,623 Behind me we have a vibrotactile floor. 432 00:32:39,157 --> 00:32:40,725 We've been working... 433 00:32:40,725 --> 00:32:44,595 I first designed a vibro-tactile floor 434 00:32:44,629 --> 00:32:50,969 for Tangled Art Gallery in Toronto, probably five, six years ago now, 435 00:32:50,969 --> 00:32:55,206 for an artist that was showing there, Deirdre Logue. 436 00:32:55,206 --> 00:33:02,046 And I built four sections of floor this size, 437 00:33:02,046 --> 00:33:03,581 and they were solid. 438 00:33:03,581 --> 00:33:09,087 This is in four components, but those were solid sections. 439 00:33:09,087 --> 00:33:12,256 She's a video artist, so the monitors 440 00:33:12,256 --> 00:33:16,394 were mounted on the wall low. 441 00:33:16,728 --> 00:33:20,732 Then the sound, rather than coming out of a speaker or something, 442 00:33:20,732 --> 00:33:22,066 was channeled into the floor. 443 00:33:22,066 --> 00:33:25,636 So the sound videos was coming out of the floor, which was really... 444 00:33:25,636 --> 00:33:31,676 What happened was it really changed the experience of sound within the space. 445 00:33:31,676 --> 00:33:38,416 It really kind of filled the room with a different sound quality. 446 00:33:38,916 --> 00:33:42,053 [Diane:] People could walk on the floor? 447 00:33:42,053 --> 00:33:44,355 [David:] Yeah, they were all ramped. 448 00:33:44,389 --> 00:33:50,094 The idea is that whenever we work with any of our technology, 449 00:33:50,094 --> 00:33:52,697 we try to think about access. 450 00:33:52,797 --> 00:33:57,201 From as many perspectives as possible. 451 00:33:57,502 --> 00:34:00,138 So I ramped them all 452 00:34:00,138 --> 00:34:05,042 so wheelchair users could experience them 453 00:34:05,076 --> 00:34:08,079 on the floor, could experience the sound on the floor, 454 00:34:08,112 --> 00:34:13,251 But people would come in and sit on them or lie down, 455 00:34:13,751 --> 00:34:18,456 just however they wanted or could best experience 456 00:34:18,456 --> 00:34:21,926 that quality of vibration. 457 00:34:22,126 --> 00:34:28,166 So now we're starting to work with separating sound into the floor. 458 00:34:28,199 --> 00:34:32,136 In the case of this one, we can have four different sounds going 459 00:34:32,136 --> 00:34:38,076 into the floor, or we can control it 460 00:34:38,076 --> 00:34:41,813 so that sound will move in a circular pattern 461 00:34:41,813 --> 00:34:46,717 or however, whatever direction you want the sound to move. 462 00:34:46,717 --> 00:34:53,791 And this is a component that then could be reproduced into multiples within a room. 463 00:34:53,791 --> 00:35:00,031 So a whole room could actually become a vibro-tactile floor space. 464 00:35:00,865 --> 00:35:02,166 I guess we can look at the wall. 465 00:35:02,166 --> 00:35:03,101 [Diane:] Yeah. 466 00:35:03,101 --> 00:35:08,206 [David:] Okay. We've moved over to another installation 467 00:35:08,706 --> 00:35:11,943 that we call Haptic Voices, 468 00:35:11,943 --> 00:35:15,913 which is, we also refer to it as the vibro-tactile wall. 469 00:35:17,048 --> 00:35:19,750 The idea came out of, again, 470 00:35:19,784 --> 00:35:23,788 out of the period of COVID when... 471 00:35:24,021 --> 00:35:30,128 First of all, there was Canada Council, Ontario Arts Council, 472 00:35:30,128 --> 00:35:34,866 we were able to receive funding to 473 00:35:34,866 --> 00:35:38,569 support artists during COVID. 474 00:35:39,070 --> 00:35:44,475 We wanted to develop something that 475 00:35:44,475 --> 00:35:48,045 connected, the idea of connection. 476 00:35:48,045 --> 00:35:54,652 So Haptic Voices is a wall, a vibrotactile wall, 477 00:35:54,685 --> 00:35:57,221 that's made up of 10 transducers. 478 00:35:57,221 --> 00:36:00,925 So each of these is a transducer. 479 00:36:01,025 --> 00:36:04,328 The design also allows 480 00:36:04,328 --> 00:36:08,032 for the transducers to move independently, 481 00:36:08,032 --> 00:36:12,170 sideways, and these can move up and down 482 00:36:12,170 --> 00:36:17,074 so to adjust to height, 483 00:36:17,074 --> 00:36:22,046 to body type, as as much as possible. 484 00:36:22,046 --> 00:36:28,819 And also, they're mounted on rubber bands so that as you lean against it, 485 00:36:28,819 --> 00:36:32,990 it tends to sort of form to the body. 486 00:36:32,990 --> 00:36:38,396 So If I were to lean against it, 487 00:36:38,396 --> 00:36:46,304 the idea is to adjust it to your shoulder area, 488 00:36:52,376 --> 00:36:57,648 lower back, the thigh and the caps. 489 00:36:58,182 --> 00:37:00,217 Then just lean back. 490 00:37:00,251 --> 00:37:06,357 You can put your full body back into it, and it's very strong. 491 00:37:06,357 --> 00:37:12,129 And then we have an iPad 492 00:37:13,231 --> 00:37:17,268 that's programmed so that you can control 493 00:37:17,268 --> 00:37:21,939 the sound and vibration. 494 00:37:21,939 --> 00:37:28,846 We've now commissioned, I think, about five artists or musicians to 495 00:37:28,846 --> 00:37:32,483 create work for the wall. 496 00:37:33,351 --> 00:37:37,255 The other feature is that, 497 00:37:37,255 --> 00:37:39,824 again, back to the idea of connecting, 498 00:37:39,824 --> 00:37:46,464 was to set up a website where people could 499 00:37:46,464 --> 00:37:48,733 go on to their website or go on to their laptop, 500 00:37:48,766 --> 00:37:55,640 open up the website and voice into their laptop, for instance, 501 00:37:55,640 --> 00:38:00,878 and they're anywhere in the world, and their voice would be 502 00:38:00,878 --> 00:38:04,115 transmitted to the wall, and you'd feel their voice. 503 00:38:04,115 --> 00:38:09,153 And we'd set up a camera 504 00:38:09,153 --> 00:38:13,324 so that through the website, 505 00:38:13,324 --> 00:38:18,195 the person creating the sound could see the 506 00:38:18,195 --> 00:38:22,066 reaction of the person leaning against the wall. 507 00:38:22,066 --> 00:38:26,971 It also has an intensity adjustment. 508 00:38:26,971 --> 00:38:32,643 Right now, we have three compositions on this control. 509 00:38:33,044 --> 00:38:41,285 We've got a piece by John Gzowski, a Toronto-based composer. 510 00:38:41,285 --> 00:38:46,290 We have a piece that Jim Ruxton created himself, 511 00:38:46,290 --> 00:38:49,560 and he actually created while he was leaning against the wall, 512 00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:54,265 which is the ultimate experience, I guess, 513 00:38:54,265 --> 00:38:58,836 in terms of your instantaneous feedback. 514 00:38:58,836 --> 00:39:03,507 And then Ailís Ní Ríain is a deaf composer 515 00:39:03,507 --> 00:39:07,478 from - Irish composer living in the UK. 516 00:39:07,478 --> 00:39:11,415 And I'll just demonstrate. 517 00:39:13,384 --> 00:39:17,922 ♪ Saxophone music playing for a few seconds, then David speaks over the music ♪ 518 00:39:18,589 --> 00:39:24,061 [David:] That's moving independently through 10 channels on the wall. 519 00:39:24,061 --> 00:39:27,898 So if you lean against it, 520 00:39:29,533 --> 00:39:33,003 you're getting 10 points of sensation, 521 00:39:33,037 --> 00:39:35,606 vibrotactile sensation. 522 00:39:43,414 --> 00:39:45,916 You can't anticipate where it's coming 523 00:39:45,916 --> 00:39:48,319 unless you know the piece really well, 524 00:39:48,352 --> 00:39:52,056 which transducer is coming into. 525 00:40:02,833 --> 00:40:04,835 ♪ David stops the music ♪ 526 00:40:04,835 --> 00:40:08,405 So that gives you an idea of... 527 00:40:08,439 --> 00:40:17,782 We could have 10 musicians or 10 instrumentalists 528 00:40:17,782 --> 00:40:21,185 playing live and channel them independently 529 00:40:21,185 --> 00:40:25,389 into each of the transducers. 530 00:40:25,923 --> 00:40:32,530 So I think it has a lot of possibilities yet. 531 00:40:32,530 --> 00:40:35,833 I think I mentioned earlier, one of the things we're looking at 532 00:40:35,866 --> 00:40:42,039 in terms of this concept is to condense it 533 00:40:42,039 --> 00:40:46,911 so that it was something that could be transported and easily placed 534 00:40:46,911 --> 00:40:51,916 in the back of a wheelchair or a chair for that matter. 535 00:40:52,249 --> 00:40:58,322 We recognize that even though we've considered accessibility with this, 536 00:40:58,322 --> 00:41:01,358 it's still inaccessible for some people. 537 00:41:01,625 --> 00:41:05,563 We're very conscious of that and always trying to and adapt and figure out 538 00:41:05,563 --> 00:41:13,237 how we can make it more available. 539 00:41:13,471 --> 00:41:19,243 [Diane:] Well, thank you so much for welcoming me in that amazing space. 540 00:41:19,243 --> 00:41:25,049 So are you working on specific projects right now? 541 00:41:25,549 --> 00:41:31,589 [David:] Yeah. Well, I guess I think first up is a trip to New York City. 542 00:41:33,624 --> 00:41:38,395 We're working with the Parsons School of Design 543 00:41:38,395 --> 00:41:42,399 there, and their year-end fashion show is happening. 544 00:41:42,399 --> 00:41:45,402 so I'm going. 545 00:41:45,436 --> 00:41:49,139 We've already shipped all the stuff over there. 546 00:41:49,139 --> 00:41:55,713 We're setting up a system of 25 vibro tactile belts for the audience 547 00:41:55,713 --> 00:42:00,050 to get an added 548 00:42:00,050 --> 00:42:03,354 sensory experience of the fashion show. 549 00:42:03,721 --> 00:42:09,760 That's going to be a strange time to go to New York, but it's going to be 550 00:42:09,793 --> 00:42:13,964 a really interesting thing. 551 00:42:15,266 --> 00:42:16,333 Gosh. 552 00:42:16,333 --> 00:42:18,502 Well, I mentioned Erin Ball. 553 00:42:18,502 --> 00:42:22,039 We're continuing to work with Erin Ball. 554 00:42:22,706 --> 00:42:27,344 We're working, again, an ongoing project with 555 00:42:27,978 --> 00:42:34,718 Vanessa Dion Fletcher, who's a Lenape artist in Toronto. 556 00:42:34,718 --> 00:42:39,390 She's working on an exhibition that would be happening at 557 00:42:39,390 --> 00:42:41,525 what was the Art Gallery of Windsor. 558 00:42:41,525 --> 00:42:46,130 It's now called Art Windsor-Essex. 559 00:42:48,032 --> 00:42:52,770 There's lots more happening. 560 00:42:52,770 --> 00:42:57,007 I think just referring back to what I had said earlier around some of the projects 561 00:42:57,007 --> 00:43:00,177 that tend to be ongoing. 562 00:43:00,210 --> 00:43:06,083 It's rare that we have - everything gets wrapped up in one session. 563 00:43:06,150 --> 00:43:10,554 So typically, what happens in one leads to another. 564 00:43:10,554 --> 00:43:18,696 And so, yeah, many of our projects last over multiple years. 565 00:43:19,163 --> 00:43:21,298 [Diane:] Well, thank you again. 566 00:43:21,298 --> 00:43:25,903 And I'm sure we will see each other in one project or another. 567 00:43:25,903 --> 00:43:28,138 [David:] Yeah, definitely have a feeling we will, 568 00:43:28,138 --> 00:43:33,777 now that I have a better sense of what your 569 00:43:33,777 --> 00:43:36,914 illustriousness is all about. 570 00:43:36,947 --> 00:43:39,817 It seems to be fascinating. 571 00:43:39,817 --> 00:43:40,985 Yeah, absolutely. 572 00:43:40,985 --> 00:43:44,521 I think there's really a lot of connections with 573 00:43:44,521 --> 00:43:47,658 what you're doing and would love to. 574 00:43:48,058 --> 00:43:49,293 [Diane:] Well, thank you. 575 00:43:49,293 --> 00:43:51,762 [David:] Okay. Thank you very much. 576 00:43:51,762 --> 00:43:53,030 My pleasure. 577 00:43:53,630 --> 00:43:58,635 ♪ Closing theme music ♪