1 00:00:01,000 --> 00:00:06,139 ♪ Opening theme music ♪ 2 00:00:13,546 --> 00:00:17,851 Hello, and welcome to this episode of ArtsAbly in Conversation. 3 00:00:17,851 --> 00:00:19,753 My name is Diane Kolin. 4 00:00:20,019 --> 00:00:25,759 The series presents artists, academics, and project leaders who dedicate their 5 00:00:25,759 --> 00:00:31,831 time and energy to a better accessibility for people with disabilities in the arts. 6 00:00:31,865 --> 00:00:37,470 You can find more of these conversations on our website, artsably.com, 7 00:00:37,470 --> 00:00:42,709 which is spelled A-R-T-S-A-B-L-Y dot com. 8 00:00:43,977 --> 00:00:49,115 ♪ Theme music ♪ 9 00:00:56,456 --> 00:01:00,593 Today, ArtsAbly is in conversation with Mercedes Yvonne Lysaker, 10 00:01:00,593 --> 00:01:05,098 a cellist, a teacher, and a scholar based in New York. 11 00:01:05,098 --> 00:01:08,668 You can find the resources mentioned by Mercedes Yvonne Lysaker during this episode 12 00:01:08,668 --> 00:01:13,406 on ArtsAbly's website, in the blog section. 13 00:01:15,809 --> 00:01:25,585 ♪ Area Zero Underdepths (excerpt) - PokéCello ♪ 14 00:03:57,270 --> 00:04:02,408 ♪ End of the excerpt ♪ 15 00:04:02,842 --> 00:04:06,779 Welcome to this new episode of ArtsAbly in Conversation. 16 00:04:06,779 --> 00:04:12,652 Today, we are with Mercedes Yvonne Lysaker, 17 00:04:12,652 --> 00:04:16,189 who is a cellist, a teacher, 18 00:04:16,222 --> 00:04:19,892 and a scholar based in New York City. Welcome. 19 00:04:19,892 --> 00:04:22,395 Thank you so much for having me, Diane. 20 00:04:22,428 --> 00:04:23,429 Thank you. 21 00:04:23,463 --> 00:04:27,667 I know that we went back and forth a little bit. 22 00:04:27,700 --> 00:04:33,773 I know that you are also part of the RAMPD community, which is dear to me too. 23 00:04:34,307 --> 00:04:37,744 I've been following your multiple activities. 24 00:04:37,777 --> 00:04:42,415 I know you have several interesting projects on the go, and I'm looking 25 00:04:42,448 --> 00:04:44,684 forward to talking about all that. 26 00:04:44,717 --> 00:04:47,020 Great. I'm excited, too. 27 00:04:47,053 --> 00:04:53,926 Okay, so I always start these episodes by asking about our guests. 28 00:04:54,193 --> 00:04:56,396 About your background. 29 00:04:56,429 --> 00:04:58,298 Can you tell a little bit more about you? 30 00:04:58,331 --> 00:05:00,400 When did music start for you? 31 00:05:00,733 --> 00:05:05,805 Music I don't remember when music started for me, but I was definitely the kid 32 00:05:05,838 --> 00:05:09,742 that was bouncing around the living room while my parents played music 33 00:05:09,742 --> 00:05:13,746 and let me run down all the energy because it was so overwhelming. 34 00:05:13,780 --> 00:05:16,683 It was such an enormous sensory experience for me as a kid. 35 00:05:16,716 --> 00:05:20,953 But I've been a cellist for a long time. 36 00:05:20,987 --> 00:05:24,624 I don't want to say how long because that will age me. 37 00:05:24,657 --> 00:05:30,897 But I got classical music 38 00:05:30,930 --> 00:05:32,231 education, standard stuff. 39 00:05:32,265 --> 00:05:34,500 I was an orchestra musician for a while. 40 00:05:34,534 --> 00:05:37,503 And then there was the pandemic. 41 00:05:37,537 --> 00:05:43,943 So since then, my work has expanded 42 00:05:43,976 --> 00:05:45,978 from where I started. 43 00:05:45,978 --> 00:05:51,017 I was very much on the orchestral track, on the teaching track. 44 00:05:51,050 --> 00:05:53,519 I got a degree in music education. 45 00:05:53,519 --> 00:05:59,192 I wrote my master's thesis on the relationships that people have 46 00:05:59,192 --> 00:06:02,595 with their instruments and how people have these interpersonal relationships. 47 00:06:02,628 --> 00:06:03,830 People name their instruments. 48 00:06:03,863 --> 00:06:09,202 They have very social relationship with their instruments. 49 00:06:09,202 --> 00:06:16,242 Then my scholarly interests turned towards progressive pedagogy. 50 00:06:16,242 --> 00:06:18,444 Big string pedagogy nerd. 51 00:06:18,478 --> 00:06:21,881 Really, really like how the instruments work. 52 00:06:21,914 --> 00:06:25,051 I enjoy to figure out how to teach them effectively and efficiently. 53 00:06:25,084 --> 00:06:30,556 And since New York City shut down for a while, 54 00:06:30,590 --> 00:06:33,593 and I took that as an opportunity 55 00:06:33,626 --> 00:06:38,898 to pivot towards a little bit more 56 00:06:38,931 --> 00:06:41,567 social music making, in a sense, 57 00:06:41,601 --> 00:06:43,336 because I wasn't going out anymore. 58 00:06:43,336 --> 00:06:46,639 I wasn't doing things in person, 59 00:06:46,639 --> 00:06:50,443 but I was more interested in making music 60 00:06:50,476 --> 00:06:55,047 that was about social things. I was more interested in... 61 00:06:55,081 --> 00:06:59,218 I started doing spiritual music, Jewish spiritual music. 62 00:06:59,218 --> 00:07:01,521 I'm Jewish. 63 00:07:01,521 --> 00:07:05,758 Social issue-based compositions. 64 00:07:05,758 --> 00:07:11,898 And I was on this big plan that I had. 65 00:07:11,931 --> 00:07:14,333 Through the pandemic, I really knew where I was going with all this. 66 00:07:14,367 --> 00:07:16,636 And then I got cancer. 67 00:07:16,636 --> 00:07:20,606 And getting cancer during the pandemic was a wild experience. 68 00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:22,375 I don't recommend it. 69 00:07:22,408 --> 00:07:27,814 But one thing it did was force me to slow down a little bit. 70 00:07:27,847 --> 00:07:33,352 And so I spent my surgery time, my recovery time, my treatment time, 71 00:07:33,386 --> 00:07:34,954 playing a lot of video games. 72 00:07:34,987 --> 00:07:38,257 I think that's probably pretty expected. 73 00:07:38,291 --> 00:07:44,430 That's when I got this crazy idea that maybe video game music 74 00:07:44,463 --> 00:07:47,233 would be a cool thing to do. 75 00:07:47,266 --> 00:07:53,473 Because I had been so caught off guard by this medical event, I think as many 76 00:07:53,506 --> 00:07:57,944 disabled people understand how disruptive that can be if it happens suddenly. 77 00:07:57,977 --> 00:08:04,183 For the past couple of years, I have been a lot into a little 78 00:08:04,183 --> 00:08:08,621 video game music channel where I take 79 00:08:08,654 --> 00:08:12,391 video game music and arrange it for 80 00:08:12,391 --> 00:08:19,699 live cello, of course, in a wide variety of genres, I do a lot of genre mixing. 81 00:08:19,699 --> 00:08:26,839 I do a lot of hybrid forms with orchestral sounds and then 82 00:08:26,839 --> 00:08:30,309 electronic music all mixed together. 83 00:08:30,343 --> 00:08:37,617 So, strangely, this diversion from where I thought I was going with my career 84 00:08:37,617 --> 00:08:40,019 has really brought up some exciting stuff. 85 00:08:40,052 --> 00:08:45,658 I'm very grateful 86 00:08:45,658 --> 00:08:48,327 that I have this experience because now 87 00:08:48,327 --> 00:08:50,429 I'm so active in this field. 88 00:08:50,463 --> 00:08:56,502 All of my projects recently have been in the video game music world, 89 00:08:56,502 --> 00:09:00,940 which is a great world to be in, very progressive, very nice people. 90 00:09:00,973 --> 00:09:05,544 It's been a real joy. 91 00:09:05,578 --> 00:09:06,812 Yeah, I can imagine. 92 00:09:06,846 --> 00:09:08,281 Where did you study? 93 00:09:08,314 --> 00:09:11,017 What was your university where you got your master? 94 00:09:11,050 --> 00:09:12,985 I went to Indiana University. 95 00:09:13,019 --> 00:09:15,054 I was in the pre- College program there. 96 00:09:15,087 --> 00:09:18,658 I did my undergrad there, my master's degree there. 97 00:09:18,691 --> 00:09:22,862 Then I moved to New York and I went to Teachers College for my second degree 98 00:09:22,862 --> 00:09:26,065 because got to go, got to keep learning. I love learning. 99 00:09:26,098 --> 00:09:29,568 That's how I ended up in the city for the pandemic. 100 00:09:29,568 --> 00:09:34,573 I always like to joke that this was an awful idea because I decided to go to 101 00:09:34,607 --> 00:09:37,944 music school during the great recession. 102 00:09:37,977 --> 00:09:42,648 And then within 10 years after I graduated, global pandemic 103 00:09:42,682 --> 00:09:43,449 shut everything down. 104 00:09:43,482 --> 00:09:45,585 I don't think I could have had worse timing. 105 00:09:45,618 --> 00:09:51,424 That's not including the cancer and the car crashes, but it was just... 106 00:09:51,457 --> 00:09:55,494 I don't know how anyone let me do that. Thanks, Mom and Dad. 107 00:09:55,528 --> 00:09:57,296 I love you guys. 108 00:09:57,330 --> 00:10:00,733 The cancer and the car crash. 109 00:10:00,766 --> 00:10:04,103 So I guess that's part of my story. That's when I acquired my disability. 110 00:10:04,103 --> 00:10:09,942 I was in my second full year as an orchestra musician, and I was in 111 00:10:09,942 --> 00:10:12,278 Southern Indiana, so it was all driving. 112 00:10:12,278 --> 00:10:14,213 And hit a deer. 113 00:10:14,246 --> 00:10:17,616 The carpool I was in hit a deer, totaled the car. 114 00:10:17,650 --> 00:10:21,454 And I just felt real weird for a couple of days. 115 00:10:21,487 --> 00:10:25,091 Went to the doctor and they said, Oh, probably a head injury. 116 00:10:25,124 --> 00:10:27,893 You might want to do something about that. 117 00:10:27,927 --> 00:10:31,163 And I never recovered. 118 00:10:31,163 --> 00:10:34,734 Just never came back to where I was before. 119 00:10:34,767 --> 00:10:37,503 But you know what? 120 00:10:37,503 --> 00:10:41,040 Ironically, I think being a musician was very helpful because I did not 121 00:10:41,073 --> 00:10:45,811 rely on a 9:00 to 5:00 office job, which I cannot do. 122 00:10:45,845 --> 00:10:47,446 That was never something that I needed to do. 123 00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:49,782 I never had to be in a room with fluorescent lights 124 00:10:49,782 --> 00:10:53,552 surrounded by people talking to me. 125 00:10:53,586 --> 00:10:58,124 Ironic that I was already in an accessible field, 126 00:10:58,124 --> 00:11:03,796 although we can come back to that later about how accessible the field really is. 127 00:11:03,796 --> 00:11:10,236 You studied classical performance with an acoustic cello? 128 00:11:10,236 --> 00:11:10,936 Correct. 129 00:11:10,970 --> 00:11:16,509 At a certain point, you switched to an electronic cello, or electric cello. 130 00:11:16,542 --> 00:11:22,048 The real reason that I went to music school, and I have a professional answer 131 00:11:22,081 --> 00:11:24,583 for job interviews, but for stuff like this, I can be honest. 132 00:11:24,583 --> 00:11:27,353 I was really into Apocalyptica, 133 00:11:27,386 --> 00:11:33,159 a heavy metal band that's all on cello. 134 00:11:33,159 --> 00:11:34,860 Discovered that in middle school. 135 00:11:34,860 --> 00:11:37,496 Middle school is when you have those heavy metal feelings 136 00:11:37,530 --> 00:11:38,764 that you have to deal with. 137 00:11:38,798 --> 00:11:40,533 That's when those start. 138 00:11:40,566 --> 00:11:42,501 Obsessed, just absolutely obsessed. 139 00:11:42,535 --> 00:11:45,571 Whole discography, knew all these songs back and forth. 140 00:11:45,604 --> 00:11:47,206 I would just play them on my cello. 141 00:11:47,239 --> 00:11:49,275 I would put on my headphones and turn up the music real loud 142 00:11:49,308 --> 00:11:54,146 and try to figure out the parts. 143 00:11:54,180 --> 00:11:59,752 Then I went to music school and we didn't play very much Metallica 144 00:11:59,785 --> 00:12:02,254 in the conservatory. 145 00:12:02,288 --> 00:12:08,761 But then when I graduated, I just had this crazy idea that I was on route to go to 146 00:12:08,794 --> 00:12:15,367 a friend's new place in South Carolina, and we drove through North Carolina 147 00:12:15,401 --> 00:12:16,769 where the electric violin shop is. 148 00:12:16,802 --> 00:12:19,672 I was like, Well, I never played an electric cello. 149 00:12:19,705 --> 00:12:22,108 That sounds cool. I might go check it out. 150 00:12:22,141 --> 00:12:24,677 Oh, boy, was that a bad idea? 151 00:12:24,677 --> 00:12:29,982 Because I could not get that out of my head. 152 00:12:29,982 --> 00:12:35,855 It was just the most electrifying experience, possibly, of my life, 153 00:12:35,888 --> 00:12:41,393 because I could be loud, because I could really wail on this instrument. 154 00:12:41,427 --> 00:12:44,964 My acoustic cello is the love of my life. 155 00:12:44,964 --> 00:12:49,835 Her name is Amelie, good French name, and my ecello is in the background. 156 00:12:49,869 --> 00:12:51,770 Her name is Rosie. 157 00:12:52,404 --> 00:12:55,941 But I suddenly could tap 158 00:12:55,941 --> 00:12:59,778 into that initial feeling 159 00:12:59,812 --> 00:13:02,081 that got me obsessed with the cello. 160 00:13:02,081 --> 00:13:03,582 I could be loud. 161 00:13:03,582 --> 00:13:05,718 I could cry in a way. 162 00:13:05,751 --> 00:13:10,189 That was what was harder for me to do on the acoustic cello. 163 00:13:10,222 --> 00:13:15,227 One nice thing about the electric cello, obviously, can add effects to it. 164 00:13:15,261 --> 00:13:16,996 You can make it sound like a guitar. 165 00:13:16,996 --> 00:13:18,397 You can make it sound anything you want. 166 00:13:18,397 --> 00:13:20,299 It is also very quiet because it doesn't have a resonator. 167 00:13:20,299 --> 00:13:24,036 I live in a New York City apartment building. 168 00:13:24,336 --> 00:13:29,742 Hey, I am practicing recording at 3:00 AM and nobody cares. 169 00:13:29,742 --> 00:13:32,378 Little bonus there. 170 00:13:33,245 --> 00:13:35,281 So from that, is that... 171 00:13:35,281 --> 00:13:38,350 When did you start considering, Oh, I should 172 00:13:38,350 --> 00:13:42,655 create my own identity as a fusion 173 00:13:42,688 --> 00:13:44,690 metal rock player or something like that? 174 00:13:44,723 --> 00:13:49,595 When did you start considering because I know you have a name 175 00:13:49,628 --> 00:13:52,331 where you perform that genre, right? 176 00:13:52,331 --> 00:13:58,971 Yeah. I started that path 177 00:13:59,004 --> 00:14:00,139 mentally and emotionally. 178 00:14:00,139 --> 00:14:02,308 It took a little bit for things to crystallize. 179 00:14:02,341 --> 00:14:07,713 In 2016, when there was a presidential election that was very difficult, 180 00:14:07,746 --> 00:14:14,720 and I realized I'm not a lawyer. 181 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:17,823 I'm not a policy person. I don't work in politics. 182 00:14:17,856 --> 00:14:19,792 I didn't feel like there's anything I could do. 183 00:14:19,825 --> 00:14:24,697 All these things were happening that are happening again. 184 00:14:24,730 --> 00:14:25,965 Yeah, sorry... 185 00:14:25,998 --> 00:14:28,634 [Laughs.] I'm sorry. 186 00:14:28,667 --> 00:14:30,836 I'm very sorry. 187 00:14:30,836 --> 00:14:34,340 But I realized... 188 00:14:34,340 --> 00:14:38,477 I felt like there was something that was just missing, 189 00:14:38,477 --> 00:14:42,815 that I was just seeing all these things happening, and I couldn't do anything about it. 190 00:14:42,848 --> 00:14:48,921 It took a little bit before... At least I can make music. 191 00:14:48,921 --> 00:14:52,691 I can make music that's angry, and I can make music that's sad, 192 00:14:52,725 --> 00:14:55,694 and I can make music that, at the very, 193 00:14:55,728 --> 00:15:00,032 very least, mocks something in this time. 194 00:15:00,065 --> 00:15:04,236 I think my first... I adopted the name Contraforma 195 00:15:04,270 --> 00:15:09,341 in 2020, 2021, somewhere in there. 196 00:15:09,375 --> 00:15:13,279 That came to me when I was writing. 197 00:15:13,312 --> 00:15:18,284 I was writing a journal article, and I was trying to come up with an antonym 198 00:15:18,284 --> 00:15:24,523 for conform, because I had this image, 199 00:15:24,523 --> 00:15:26,425 this sensory feeling of... 200 00:15:26,458 --> 00:15:29,094 I think of Play-Doh or Silly Putty, 201 00:15:29,094 --> 00:15:32,831 and you squish it with your hands and make into a shape. 202 00:15:32,865 --> 00:15:35,934 The Play-Doh conforms to the shape. 203 00:15:35,968 --> 00:15:40,172 But what would happen if the Play-Doh refused and expanded instead 204 00:15:40,205 --> 00:15:42,041 of you pushing in and expanded out? 205 00:15:42,041 --> 00:15:45,077 And I came up with contraform. 206 00:15:45,077 --> 00:15:46,912 Instead of conform, contraform. 207 00:15:46,946 --> 00:15:50,783 And then I threw an A on the end because I'm a lady, you know. 208 00:15:50,816 --> 00:15:58,257 That feeling of pushing, pushing back, 209 00:15:58,290 --> 00:16:01,293 feeling all this pressure to be smaller 210 00:16:01,327 --> 00:16:06,532 to be quieter or more palatable, whatever it is. 211 00:16:06,565 --> 00:16:12,504 I'm just saying, No, I'm good, and actively pushing that out. 212 00:16:12,538 --> 00:16:19,812 My first single was about the Texas abortion ban 213 00:16:19,845 --> 00:16:21,613 that I think hit in 2021 or 2022. 214 00:16:21,647 --> 00:16:25,551 It was called Aid and Abet. 215 00:16:25,884 --> 00:16:30,322 That's where that came from. 216 00:16:30,356 --> 00:16:33,292 I just felt I got to do something. 217 00:16:33,325 --> 00:16:37,696 I have all these people around me who are smart, 218 00:16:37,730 --> 00:16:41,867 and I'm just like, I play the cello. 219 00:16:41,900 --> 00:16:48,574 But having that really gave me an opportunity to at least try. 220 00:16:48,607 --> 00:16:51,143 Got to try. 221 00:16:51,176 --> 00:16:53,512 Yeah, but speaking of smart, it was 222 00:16:53,545 --> 00:16:59,551 very smart to use this contraforma that 223 00:16:59,585 --> 00:17:03,088 you're mentioning that is now the name 224 00:17:03,122 --> 00:17:09,261 of your identity as a fusion cellist and 225 00:17:09,261 --> 00:17:15,868 to play Johann Sebastian Bach and Vivaldi in fusion and in rock and in metal. 226 00:17:15,901 --> 00:17:17,736 It's so natural. 227 00:17:17,770 --> 00:17:24,543 I think that everyone who hears, especially for baroque music in a certain way, 228 00:17:24,543 --> 00:17:28,647 you only have to hear it a certain way once, and you can't unhear how much 229 00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:32,117 in common it really has with the sound 230 00:17:32,151 --> 00:17:36,121 profile, the atmosphere of heavy metal. 231 00:17:36,155 --> 00:17:41,693 When I put those effects on and was playing... 232 00:17:41,727 --> 00:17:45,697 Okay, the Vivaldi came from a teacher training that I had to do. 233 00:17:45,697 --> 00:17:48,267 I had to perform the piece, I had to memorize it. 234 00:17:48,300 --> 00:17:51,336 I was practicing, and I was really bored. 235 00:17:51,370 --> 00:17:55,741 Then I thought, Let's put some effects on this. 236 00:17:55,774 --> 00:17:56,642 That's how that came out. 237 00:17:56,675 --> 00:18:01,480 I was just like, This is the best thing I've ever heard. 238 00:18:01,513 --> 00:18:02,915 It worked so, so well. 239 00:18:02,948 --> 00:18:05,184 It was very cool. 240 00:18:05,217 --> 00:18:07,920 What about PokéCello? 241 00:18:08,053 --> 00:18:14,093 Oh, boy. The only way that I got through cancer, 242 00:18:14,126 --> 00:18:15,994 besides my family, I love you. 243 00:18:16,028 --> 00:18:18,997 Thank you, family, played a lot of video games. 244 00:18:18,997 --> 00:18:24,870 It was such a way for me to be engrossed in something that was not the disruption 245 00:18:24,903 --> 00:18:28,373 to my life because I couldn't work. It was the pandemic. 246 00:18:28,407 --> 00:18:31,410 If I got COVID, I would have to not get surgery, not get treatment, 247 00:18:31,443 --> 00:18:34,546 and I just had to be isolated. 248 00:18:34,580 --> 00:18:39,952 I realized how many people rely on 249 00:18:39,952 --> 00:18:43,489 something trivial, like video games, 250 00:18:43,489 --> 00:18:46,058 as a support mechanism. 251 00:18:46,091 --> 00:18:50,195 I was sitting there just, How am I going to get back to this? 252 00:18:50,229 --> 00:18:52,064 How am I going to move forward? 253 00:18:52,097 --> 00:18:58,437 I thought, Well, what if I just go play one of these themes on the cello? 254 00:18:59,738 --> 00:19:02,574 That was kind of fun. 255 00:19:02,574 --> 00:19:07,346 I realized that one thing that I could do 256 00:19:07,346 --> 00:19:11,316 to at least express my appreciation 257 00:19:11,316 --> 00:19:17,656 for the way these video games helped me in this hard time 258 00:19:17,689 --> 00:19:20,626 was to celebrate their music. 259 00:19:20,659 --> 00:19:24,263 It started out as a little side project, something I would do when I 260 00:19:24,296 --> 00:19:27,833 was procrastinating on my other projects. 261 00:19:27,866 --> 00:19:33,872 I realized how much I loved arranging and orchestrating. 262 00:19:33,872 --> 00:19:39,077 I would take these themes that were not written for cello. 263 00:19:39,111 --> 00:19:42,981 Many of them were not written for human plate instruments at all. 264 00:19:42,981 --> 00:19:47,019 They were written for sound chips, for the Game Boy 265 00:19:47,019 --> 00:19:49,321 and the Game Boy events had their own chips. 266 00:19:49,354 --> 00:19:52,624 Never meant to be played by a human being when they were composed. 267 00:19:52,658 --> 00:19:56,194 So it was a really, really neat experience 268 00:19:56,228 --> 00:20:03,602 and almost an academic exercise to take these themes, 269 00:20:03,635 --> 00:20:09,908 try to extract some melodic component, and then build up 270 00:20:09,942 --> 00:20:13,011 from, I get it, sometimes a very thin 271 00:20:13,045 --> 00:20:17,616 original material, a whole foundation of 272 00:20:17,649 --> 00:20:21,587 keyboards, of strings, of brass, of synths. 273 00:20:21,620 --> 00:20:24,823 And I started out doing really, really simple things. 274 00:20:24,856 --> 00:20:31,129 My most recent project was a complete reimagining, 275 00:20:31,163 --> 00:20:36,034 a complete reorchestration of a new theme 276 00:20:36,068 --> 00:20:39,871 from this video game franchise. 277 00:20:39,871 --> 00:20:43,075 I did not expect... 278 00:20:43,075 --> 00:20:48,814 Starting a YouTube channel, you got to stick with it 279 00:20:48,847 --> 00:20:51,350 if you want to see any gains from it. 280 00:20:51,383 --> 00:20:58,557 I was really surprised that because I had found this niche completely by 281 00:20:58,557 --> 00:21:05,330 happenstance, by circumstance, I was able to build a little name for myself. 282 00:21:05,364 --> 00:21:08,734 My channel is doing well. 283 00:21:08,767 --> 00:21:14,873 It's very tiny, it's microscopic, but there are people who listen to my music. 284 00:21:14,906 --> 00:21:19,511 There are people who listen to my music when they're having a hard time. 285 00:21:19,544 --> 00:21:26,685 Because I started this for my own hard time, that's been very 286 00:21:26,952 --> 00:21:29,154 rewarding, I think. 287 00:21:29,154 --> 00:21:31,356 You're also a teacher. 288 00:21:31,356 --> 00:21:35,661 Yes, I am also a teacher and a writer. 289 00:21:35,694 --> 00:21:39,298 My teaching has slowed down a little bit because, again, 290 00:21:39,298 --> 00:21:43,268 of the whole global pandemic. 291 00:21:43,301 --> 00:21:48,874 But writing was also one of those things that I was really able to focus on 292 00:21:48,874 --> 00:21:54,513 when things shut down because it's just me and my brain, which works sometimes. 293 00:21:54,546 --> 00:21:58,417 Not a guarantee, but sometimes it does work. 294 00:21:58,450 --> 00:22:00,385 What about these publications? 295 00:22:00,419 --> 00:22:01,620 I know you published a lot. 296 00:22:01,620 --> 00:22:06,358 You did also some conference presentations about your work. 297 00:22:06,358 --> 00:22:10,862 I'm interested in the topics that you're treating in these publications. 298 00:22:10,896 --> 00:22:16,134 My big focus has been progressive string pedagogy. 299 00:22:16,134 --> 00:22:21,473 Progressive education and music education have somewhat of a history. 300 00:22:21,473 --> 00:22:25,377 It's not as significant 301 00:22:25,377 --> 00:22:28,647 as other types of education. 302 00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:35,020 But what I noticed was that the really foundational philosophies of progressive 303 00:22:35,020 --> 00:22:41,760 education had not made their way into how to teach people to play the violin 304 00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:48,467 because the classical music education industrial complex is impermeable. 305 00:22:48,500 --> 00:22:51,903 It's very, very difficult to get anything to change. 306 00:22:51,937 --> 00:22:55,741 I realized that in music education, you basically had two things. 307 00:22:55,741 --> 00:22:59,344 You could go the classical route where maybe you would get a great teacher, 308 00:22:59,377 --> 00:23:00,779 maybe you get an abusive one. 309 00:23:00,812 --> 00:23:03,882 That It was very, very common where I went to school. 310 00:23:03,882 --> 00:23:09,855 Or you could go to someone who was progressive, but who wouldn't 311 00:23:09,888 --> 00:23:11,523 give you anything of rigor. 312 00:23:11,523 --> 00:23:15,427 They would just, Oh, you're doing great. That's a great job. 313 00:23:15,460 --> 00:23:21,600 It was very difficult for me to move these things closer to each other 314 00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:27,606 so that you could have the intensity, I think, of classical training 315 00:23:27,639 --> 00:23:34,813 where you have laser focus on the smallest, 316 00:23:34,846 --> 00:23:37,949 the finest of fine motor skills. 317 00:23:37,983 --> 00:23:40,752 You're really thinking about body mechanics. 318 00:23:40,786 --> 00:23:44,823 You're thinking about how to achieve 319 00:23:45,056 --> 00:23:48,226 very minute movements that can blossom 320 00:23:48,260 --> 00:23:53,331 into this whole repertoire of technique. 321 00:23:53,365 --> 00:23:59,971 I was very excited by the possibility that 322 00:24:00,005 --> 00:24:03,074 we could still to have this 323 00:24:03,542 --> 00:24:08,213 great tradition of very rigorous, 324 00:24:08,246 --> 00:24:12,083 very intense classical training, where we could train people to play these 325 00:24:12,117 --> 00:24:15,487 instruments to a really high level, 326 00:24:15,687 --> 00:24:20,559 while also perhaps shedding some of 327 00:24:20,559 --> 00:24:23,862 the conservative elements of conservatory. 328 00:24:23,895 --> 00:24:27,933 I was very interested in changing repertoire. 329 00:24:27,966 --> 00:24:33,238 I was very interested in changing the Suzuki method because 330 00:24:33,238 --> 00:24:35,340 I am a Suzuki-certified teacher. 331 00:24:35,340 --> 00:24:37,876 I did a lot of Suzuki training. 332 00:24:37,876 --> 00:24:41,980 I really, really liked the scaffolding, like the sequencing. 333 00:24:41,980 --> 00:24:44,482 I did not like that you had to play Vivaldi. 334 00:24:44,482 --> 00:24:51,022 When I was teaching in the city before the pandemic, I met so many 335 00:24:51,022 --> 00:24:55,594 students who loved the craft, almost. 336 00:24:55,627 --> 00:24:58,129 They were very, very interested in figuring it out. 337 00:24:58,163 --> 00:25:00,031 They saw the cello as a puzzle. 338 00:25:00,065 --> 00:25:03,635 They saw it as something that they could really explore. 339 00:25:03,802 --> 00:25:06,538 They did not want to play Suzuki Book 1. 340 00:25:06,571 --> 00:25:10,909 They wanted to play the We Shop menu. 341 00:25:10,909 --> 00:25:13,645 They would come up with... They would say, Can we play Chicken Nugget Dreamland? 342 00:25:13,678 --> 00:25:15,380 I was like, What's Chicken Nugget Dreamland? 343 00:25:15,380 --> 00:25:17,816 They would play it for me. I'm like, Okay, let's play that. 344 00:25:17,849 --> 00:25:20,385 That is not in the Suzuki books, by the way. 345 00:25:20,418 --> 00:25:22,721 It is a bop. It is a banger. You should check it out. 346 00:25:22,721 --> 00:25:29,127 What I could do was I could take these really, really important principles for 347 00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:36,701 approaching the instrument, for getting a foundation, build those smoothly. 348 00:25:36,735 --> 00:25:41,773 Then ideally, my students 349 00:25:41,806 --> 00:25:46,111 would leave with enough ability 350 00:25:46,144 --> 00:25:50,782 to play what they wanted and to play when they wanted and how they wanted. 351 00:25:50,815 --> 00:25:52,884 If they wanted to be a professional, that's great. 352 00:25:52,918 --> 00:25:56,054 If they wanted to play at a family party, fantastic. 353 00:25:56,087 --> 00:25:58,423 If they wanted to do exactly what I did, put on their favorite music 354 00:25:58,423 --> 00:26:01,960 with their headphones and play along to get through 355 00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:06,998 the horrors of adolescence, that's worth it. That's important. 356 00:26:07,032 --> 00:26:12,237 And I think that's the excitement that I got from maybe finding 357 00:26:12,270 --> 00:26:15,273 that little missing piece of education. 358 00:26:15,307 --> 00:26:22,847 So my scholarship has been mostly about how to approach building curriculum. 359 00:26:22,881 --> 00:26:25,417 A lot of the things that you see in progressive education, 360 00:26:25,417 --> 00:26:29,888 progressive music education is very abstract, and that's not good. 361 00:26:29,921 --> 00:26:35,126 We have teachers are so overworked and underpaid that they have to use 362 00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:37,262 the materials we give them, so we got to give them better materials. 363 00:26:37,262 --> 00:26:40,265 What materials can we build? 364 00:26:40,298 --> 00:26:44,502 I wanted to just add a little bit 365 00:26:44,536 --> 00:26:49,874 to the library that we pull from when 366 00:26:49,908 --> 00:26:53,311 we teach so that we could have maybe just 367 00:26:53,345 --> 00:26:59,084 a slightly wider pool of instrumentalists in the next generations. 368 00:27:00,018 --> 00:27:03,888 Did you do professional developments for teachers or people 369 00:27:03,922 --> 00:27:06,658 who wanted to go further in that? 370 00:27:06,691 --> 00:27:09,060 Yeah, I've done a couple workshops. 371 00:27:09,094 --> 00:27:14,933 I've done talks at universities 372 00:27:14,966 --> 00:27:17,335 and education departments. 373 00:27:17,369 --> 00:27:21,773 One of my more recent ones was 374 00:27:21,806 --> 00:27:24,609 adapting a framework from literacy, 375 00:27:24,609 --> 00:27:27,779 from reading education, actually, to music. 376 00:27:27,812 --> 00:27:31,983 The framework was how literature shows us 377 00:27:32,017 --> 00:27:36,821 windows into other people's lives. 378 00:27:36,855 --> 00:27:41,459 And it can also show us mirrors and show us our own life reflected back in them. 379 00:27:41,493 --> 00:27:43,161 It makes a lot of sense in literature. 380 00:27:43,161 --> 00:27:47,732 And I thought, well, What does that look like in music? 381 00:27:47,766 --> 00:27:50,402 What would a musical mirror look like? 382 00:27:50,435 --> 00:27:53,138 What would a musical window look like? 383 00:27:53,138 --> 00:27:56,941 And I went through some of our more common 384 00:27:57,075 --> 00:28:00,545 string education materials, 385 00:28:00,545 --> 00:28:03,581 and I said, Hey, who has mirrors here? 386 00:28:03,615 --> 00:28:06,818 Who has mirrors? Who has windows? 387 00:28:06,851 --> 00:28:08,153 What does that mean? 388 00:28:08,153 --> 00:28:12,057 What does that change for the learning experience of that student 389 00:28:12,323 --> 00:28:15,493 when maybe those things are not balanced? 390 00:28:17,762 --> 00:28:19,831 For sure. 391 00:28:19,864 --> 00:28:21,533 Did you have an answer? 392 00:28:21,533 --> 00:28:23,768 [Laughs.] Oh, boy. 393 00:28:23,802 --> 00:28:27,439 Well, as an academic, you never have any answers. 394 00:28:27,472 --> 00:28:30,875 You got to write more papers. 395 00:28:30,909 --> 00:28:32,744 Yeah. 396 00:28:32,777 --> 00:28:35,613 I know. 397 00:28:36,815 --> 00:28:40,752 There is something I read in your biography, 398 00:28:40,785 --> 00:28:44,022 and that - I have to ask the question. 399 00:28:44,055 --> 00:28:49,627 I read that you're working with some national trade organizations 400 00:28:49,661 --> 00:28:52,897 advocating for disability rights and string education. 401 00:28:52,931 --> 00:28:56,768 What are these national trade organizations? 402 00:28:56,968 --> 00:29:03,475 Well, one of them is called RAMPD, of course, the dear organization 403 00:29:03,508 --> 00:29:07,045 Recording Artists and Music Professionals with Disabilities. 404 00:29:07,812 --> 00:29:10,815 One thing that I did notice as a scholar, 405 00:29:10,849 --> 00:29:13,751 well, scholar sounds a little, 406 00:29:13,785 --> 00:29:17,489 not a very accessible field. 407 00:29:17,522 --> 00:29:21,726 Not a lot of people who were interested in 408 00:29:22,861 --> 00:29:26,164 non-superficial accessibility. 409 00:29:26,197 --> 00:29:29,434 I feel like there's a lot of things where we have a ramp. 410 00:29:30,001 --> 00:29:33,071 We have a wheelchair user in our promotional materials. 411 00:29:33,171 --> 00:29:35,273 We have a performer with a limb difference. 412 00:29:35,306 --> 00:29:38,643 We... check. We did it. 413 00:29:38,643 --> 00:29:43,715 I just happened to see on Twitter many, many years ago, it feels like now, that 414 00:29:43,748 --> 00:29:45,817 there was maybe this new organization. 415 00:29:45,850 --> 00:29:51,523 And that did really crystallize a couple of things for me because I realized 416 00:29:51,523 --> 00:29:58,530 that this feeling I had about the inaccessibility of, 417 00:29:58,530 --> 00:30:00,098 I mean, not just performing, 418 00:30:00,098 --> 00:30:05,303 but also teaching also being something of an academic, 419 00:30:05,303 --> 00:30:08,773 trying to talk to people, trying to share ideas. 420 00:30:09,607 --> 00:30:11,843 There was a gap there. 421 00:30:11,876 --> 00:30:19,250 There weren't a lot of people in those rooms who were thinking about the things that 422 00:30:19,517 --> 00:30:22,587 RAMPD is just loud about. 423 00:30:22,620 --> 00:30:26,758 I mean, disability culture, blank looks. 424 00:30:26,758 --> 00:30:32,197 Very, very little interest in adjusting 425 00:30:32,230 --> 00:30:34,465 how we do things because of the pandemic. 426 00:30:34,499 --> 00:30:37,235 Being at somewhat of a higher risk 427 00:30:37,235 --> 00:30:42,307 for COVID complications, suddenly, nobody - 428 00:30:42,340 --> 00:30:46,811 everyone was fine with me no longer being there. 429 00:30:46,845 --> 00:30:49,214 I like to stay at home and do nothing. 430 00:30:49,247 --> 00:30:52,217 So sometimes I was also happy with not being there. 431 00:30:52,217 --> 00:30:57,488 But the feeling that 432 00:30:57,622 --> 00:30:59,691 suddenly I didn't really know 433 00:30:59,724 --> 00:31:03,962 how to advocate for myself I knew intellectually 434 00:31:03,962 --> 00:31:06,297 that something was wrong, but I also knew 435 00:31:06,297 --> 00:31:10,134 that there were probably dozens, hundreds 436 00:31:10,168 --> 00:31:14,772 of other people like me who are being pushed out, who were feeling that they did not 437 00:31:14,772 --> 00:31:18,409 have anyone who would listen to them. 438 00:31:18,443 --> 00:31:22,080 They didn't feel... 439 00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:25,316 Maybe they didn't have an opportunity to voice things. 440 00:31:25,316 --> 00:31:29,354 And so finding RAMPD helped crystallize 441 00:31:29,387 --> 00:31:35,293 some of the the principles of advocacy 442 00:31:35,326 --> 00:31:40,265 and activism and being loud. 443 00:31:40,298 --> 00:31:45,103 I think that's the thing that really draws me to RAMPD 444 00:31:45,136 --> 00:31:52,176 is that it is not polite all the time. 445 00:31:52,176 --> 00:31:58,383 I mean, maybe that's not a nice thing to say, but we're very interested in 446 00:31:58,383 --> 00:32:02,887 getting equity, getting access, 447 00:32:02,887 --> 00:32:08,326 and we're not going to be pretty pleased about... 448 00:32:08,359 --> 00:32:13,097 There's an insistence that I think is necessary, especially in these times, 449 00:32:13,131 --> 00:32:17,368 and a defiant celebration 450 00:32:17,402 --> 00:32:19,270 that we're here, 451 00:32:19,270 --> 00:32:21,973 we know what we're doing, we're professionals, 452 00:32:21,973 --> 00:32:25,777 and it's time to let us in. 453 00:32:25,810 --> 00:32:30,815 We're promoting disability culture, which is very important, 454 00:32:30,848 --> 00:32:35,019 and trying to show that accessibility in the art is important. 455 00:32:35,053 --> 00:32:38,656 While in these times, someone is just 456 00:32:38,656 --> 00:32:42,660 saying that EDI is not important and 457 00:32:42,694 --> 00:32:47,332 removing important pages from important websites, I wouldn't name this person, 458 00:32:47,365 --> 00:32:53,871 but really, it makes it even more important for us to talk about that. 459 00:32:53,905 --> 00:32:58,876 Can you give us a meaning or a definition 460 00:32:58,876 --> 00:33:01,646 of what it is for you, disability culture? 461 00:33:01,646 --> 00:33:02,880 I... 462 00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:06,651 Recently, I had a really great experience with Lachi. 463 00:33:06,684 --> 00:33:13,024 I worked on some music videos with her, and this was my first 464 00:33:13,057 --> 00:33:18,663 COVID safe production that I had really done where I was not... 465 00:33:18,696 --> 00:33:22,133 Usually, I am the person wearing a mask and avoiding things, right? 466 00:33:22,166 --> 00:33:28,106 But this was the first event production that I'd been to where 467 00:33:28,106 --> 00:33:30,475 everyone was wearing a mask because I was there. 468 00:33:30,508 --> 00:33:33,711 I had my little trustee air purifier. 469 00:33:33,745 --> 00:33:40,618 What was very interesting to me was that every person in that room 470 00:33:40,651 --> 00:33:43,287 also had access needs. 471 00:33:43,321 --> 00:33:46,657 Because I was focused on the COVID safety as an access need. 472 00:33:46,691 --> 00:33:52,463 But I was not the only person in the room who had needs. 473 00:33:52,497 --> 00:33:57,735 And some people needed the lights to not flash, no bright light. 474 00:33:57,769 --> 00:34:01,773 Some people needed to see people's mouths to read lips. 475 00:34:01,773 --> 00:34:05,343 And that was a rare occurrence for me. 476 00:34:05,343 --> 00:34:12,083 I am very used to being the only person in the room with access needs. 477 00:34:12,083 --> 00:34:14,519 And so suddenly, that was just normal. 478 00:34:14,519 --> 00:34:17,522 That was just what was happening everyone had that. 479 00:34:17,522 --> 00:34:25,029 And there was this real feeling of safety, of camaraderie, of community, 480 00:34:25,063 --> 00:34:29,534 because I wasn't the weird one anymore. 481 00:34:29,567 --> 00:34:34,972 I always I feel just a little bit off, and I wear these glasses 482 00:34:35,006 --> 00:34:38,776 because of the lights, and I have really bad light sensitivity. 483 00:34:38,810 --> 00:34:43,448 I look a little odd sometimes, and I'm very used to being the one person 484 00:34:43,481 --> 00:34:46,984 that's like, Hey, I need something. 485 00:34:47,018 --> 00:34:48,853 I need this, I need that. 486 00:34:48,886 --> 00:34:53,224 Very few other people are expressing their needs, their access needs. 487 00:34:53,257 --> 00:34:57,929 But being on this production with Lachi really crystallized for me that 488 00:34:57,962 --> 00:35:04,836 disability culture is a way of life, is a way of interacting with people where your 489 00:35:04,869 --> 00:35:09,040 access needs are like everything else. 490 00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:13,978 I have a name, I have an identity, I have a role, I have access needs. 491 00:35:13,978 --> 00:35:16,214 And that's exactly the same for you. 492 00:35:16,247 --> 00:35:20,351 It was the same for every single person on that set. 493 00:35:20,384 --> 00:35:24,922 I was not the only person anymore with access needs. 494 00:35:24,922 --> 00:35:28,259 And feeling that, feeling that just be normalized, 495 00:35:28,259 --> 00:35:31,028 that just being part of the process, 496 00:35:31,028 --> 00:35:33,764 Revolutionary for me, frankly. 497 00:35:33,798 --> 00:35:38,669 Disability culture for me is that feeling of community. 498 00:35:38,703 --> 00:35:40,538 This is not something that makes us different, 499 00:35:40,538 --> 00:35:43,908 it's something that makes us alike. 500 00:35:43,941 --> 00:35:49,380 Yeah, that's very interesting because the access need is something 501 00:35:49,380 --> 00:35:55,953 that either is not frequently talked about or treated as an exception 502 00:35:55,987 --> 00:36:01,159 or something that is like, No, you're the only one who has an access need. 503 00:36:01,192 --> 00:36:04,896 Everybody has an access need, even non-disabled folks. 504 00:36:04,896 --> 00:36:11,202 They have access needs because they need a desk that sometimes surrelevates because 505 00:36:11,235 --> 00:36:17,375 they have back issues or they frequently travel, so they have these always 506 00:36:17,408 --> 00:36:22,880 carrying all these suitcases and needing something that is easy to roll. 507 00:36:22,914 --> 00:36:25,249 It's an access need. 508 00:36:25,283 --> 00:36:28,953 That idea that 509 00:36:28,953 --> 00:36:31,622 everyone has access needs and 510 00:36:31,622 --> 00:36:35,726 one thing that we can do is make that normal. 511 00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:41,599 I mean, that just blows the door open for not just disabled people, 512 00:36:41,632 --> 00:36:46,137 but single parents, people that work multiple jobs, 513 00:36:46,170 --> 00:36:53,144 people that are caregivers to their family members, everyone that has access needs 514 00:36:53,177 --> 00:36:58,416 who doesn't have a space to 515 00:36:58,449 --> 00:37:01,719 say them, to ask for them. 516 00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:05,189 That door can be kicked open for them as well. 517 00:37:05,222 --> 00:37:09,026 I think that's pretty cool. 518 00:37:09,060 --> 00:37:13,497 Do you have this conversation with your students sometimes about 519 00:37:13,531 --> 00:37:18,903 access needs or different way of playing 520 00:37:18,936 --> 00:37:22,206 that might be different than the traditional 521 00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:25,509 way they are learning, things like that? 522 00:37:25,543 --> 00:37:31,749 When I started teaching, I had no real goals. 523 00:37:31,782 --> 00:37:33,517 I had no real plans. 524 00:37:33,517 --> 00:37:35,920 I'm going to be completely honest with you, when I started, 525 00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:40,558 I wanted extra money because you got to make money as a working musician. 526 00:37:40,558 --> 00:37:45,796 But when I started doing my training, I realized that a lot of the things 527 00:37:45,830 --> 00:37:48,799 I was being taught to do were - 528 00:37:48,799 --> 00:37:50,868 I didn't use this language then, but I can use it now, 529 00:37:50,868 --> 00:37:52,536 they were not accessible. 530 00:37:52,570 --> 00:37:54,872 They were for one type of student. 531 00:37:54,905 --> 00:38:02,146 If that student had, I mean, performance anxiety, if that student had 532 00:38:02,146 --> 00:38:06,150 emotional regulation issues, if that student 533 00:38:06,884 --> 00:38:11,589 was not a cookie cutter, right? 534 00:38:11,622 --> 00:38:18,529 I would fail them as a teacher, but they would fail. 535 00:38:18,562 --> 00:38:21,432 I would be the true failure, but they would be the one who were labeled. 536 00:38:21,465 --> 00:38:25,503 The failure would be placed on them, and the blame would be placed on them 537 00:38:25,503 --> 00:38:27,972 for not being capable. 538 00:38:28,005 --> 00:38:31,208 And I remember in my very first training, I brought something 539 00:38:31,242 --> 00:38:33,711 like this up because it shocked me. 540 00:38:33,744 --> 00:38:39,884 It really bothered me that I knew people who would not respond to this teaching. 541 00:38:39,884 --> 00:38:45,556 And I said, well, hey, what do we do when we have a student who 542 00:38:45,556 --> 00:38:48,292 says this or needs this or asks this. 543 00:38:48,326 --> 00:38:51,562 They didn't have an answer. 544 00:38:51,562 --> 00:38:52,997 They just really didn't. 545 00:38:52,997 --> 00:38:58,369 So my real impetus for actually going and getting 546 00:38:59,136 --> 00:39:05,242 training, going back to grad school for music education, was because I noticed 547 00:39:05,276 --> 00:39:11,716 the way that we teach children, especially when they get 548 00:39:11,716 --> 00:39:16,654 to be young adults and they go to college, can be very damaging. 549 00:39:17,121 --> 00:39:22,560 I knew people in college with real, real problems that came from 550 00:39:22,593 --> 00:39:25,963 their teachers not meeting their needs. 551 00:39:25,963 --> 00:39:30,401 And I think that if you are a freshman in conservatory and you walk into that studio 552 00:39:30,401 --> 00:39:35,473 with a great master, you're not going to advocate for yourself. 553 00:39:35,506 --> 00:39:40,177 The power dynamic is too strong there. 554 00:39:40,211 --> 00:39:46,517 And so it gets very, very easy to put all these things on yourself 555 00:39:46,517 --> 00:39:48,619 to say, I am the one who is failing. 556 00:39:48,619 --> 00:39:50,788 I am the one who is not good enough. 557 00:39:50,821 --> 00:39:56,093 When really there are things that the community can do. 558 00:39:56,127 --> 00:39:57,595 There are things that your teachers can do. 559 00:39:57,628 --> 00:39:59,296 There are things that the administrators can do. 560 00:39:59,296 --> 00:40:02,933 There are things that the institutions can do. 561 00:40:02,967 --> 00:40:08,339 When I was a teacher and I started observing this and looking at this, 562 00:40:08,372 --> 00:40:10,941 I wish I knew the term access needs. 563 00:40:10,975 --> 00:40:19,116 I wish I had that direct language because that made me really mad. 564 00:40:19,116 --> 00:40:20,918 Did not like that. 565 00:40:21,285 --> 00:40:26,957 Did this realization impact your music, your performance practices, 566 00:40:26,991 --> 00:40:31,128 or the way you were seeing your music? 567 00:40:31,162 --> 00:40:36,934 It definitely made me 568 00:40:36,967 --> 00:40:40,371 a little bit more clear-headed. 569 00:40:40,404 --> 00:40:45,242 It clarified things for me in terms of what I was bringing in 570 00:40:45,242 --> 00:40:46,777 to the practice room. 571 00:40:46,811 --> 00:40:48,779 Love practicing, obsessed with practicing. 572 00:40:48,813 --> 00:40:51,048 I can be alone in a room and no one is allowed to talk to me 573 00:40:51,081 --> 00:40:53,484 for hours, like a dream scenario. 574 00:40:53,484 --> 00:40:59,857 The issue that I certainly had at maybe the end of college was that 575 00:40:59,857 --> 00:41:05,429 it was bringing more into practice room with me than the instrument. 576 00:41:05,463 --> 00:41:09,800 When I started looking into this issue, when I started teaching and started researching, 577 00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:14,538 one of my very first questions was, 578 00:41:14,538 --> 00:41:17,341 how do we help students? 579 00:41:17,374 --> 00:41:24,882 How do we help other professionals only bring the stuff they really need 580 00:41:24,882 --> 00:41:26,116 into the practice room? 581 00:41:26,150 --> 00:41:30,054 How do we get them to leave their teacher's voice in the hallway, 582 00:41:30,087 --> 00:41:35,025 that internal critic that's always seeing something wrong with what you're doing? 583 00:41:35,059 --> 00:41:42,266 How do you leave the pressure of auditions in the hallway when you go to practice? 584 00:41:42,299 --> 00:41:46,270 Some people can do that very naturally, and they are the ones that get ahead. 585 00:41:46,303 --> 00:41:48,205 Other people who can't do that naturally, they're the ones 586 00:41:48,239 --> 00:41:51,675 with substance use problems. 587 00:41:51,709 --> 00:41:58,682 For the first time, I was able to really put language to that. 588 00:41:58,682 --> 00:42:01,919 I was able to say, I do not need my teacher's voice in my head. 589 00:42:01,919 --> 00:42:04,488 I do not need that in the practice room. I need a metronome. 590 00:42:04,521 --> 00:42:05,623 I need a tuner. 591 00:42:05,623 --> 00:42:09,460 I need my étude books. 592 00:42:09,493 --> 00:42:13,797 I do not need an internal critic. 593 00:42:13,998 --> 00:42:17,468 Having that did help my approach to the instrument, 594 00:42:17,501 --> 00:42:20,070 which I hope makes me a better teacher. I don't know. 595 00:42:20,104 --> 00:42:21,639 Fingers crossed. 596 00:42:22,106 --> 00:42:25,543 I want to go back briefly to what you're doing now. 597 00:42:25,543 --> 00:42:30,347 Is there something you're working on right now that you want to talk about? 598 00:42:30,381 --> 00:42:33,651 Well, I have a... 599 00:42:33,684 --> 00:42:35,753 Well, I'll say this, you can check back with me in about a year 600 00:42:35,786 --> 00:42:36,820 and I'll have more to say. 601 00:42:36,820 --> 00:42:41,058 But I've been, this year, 602 00:42:41,091 --> 00:42:44,995 planning to expand my video game channel 603 00:42:45,029 --> 00:42:49,600 to a broader production company, and I am starting 604 00:42:49,633 --> 00:42:51,335 to write original video game music. 605 00:42:51,368 --> 00:42:55,272 I'm starting to do actual... 606 00:42:55,306 --> 00:43:00,844 I mean, not actual, but arrangements that are notated, that are, 607 00:43:00,844 --> 00:43:03,380 I can put in PDFs and make portfolios of. 608 00:43:03,414 --> 00:43:09,119 And I am hoping that by the end of the year, I will have 609 00:43:09,119 --> 00:43:14,391 a little company name to plug on your podcast next year. 610 00:43:14,425 --> 00:43:18,395 But that is the place that I'm going. 611 00:43:18,429 --> 00:43:22,900 And I'm hoping it is a difficult industry, it is a difficult economy, 612 00:43:22,933 --> 00:43:24,535 et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. 613 00:43:24,568 --> 00:43:31,942 But I've loved this project so much that I am hoping that maybe you will see me in 614 00:43:31,976 --> 00:43:34,612 the credits of a real video game someday. 615 00:43:35,879 --> 00:43:38,582 Well, fingers crossed.. 616 00:43:38,582 --> 00:43:40,651 We need some luck, but you know. 617 00:43:40,651 --> 00:43:42,386 [Laughs.] 618 00:43:42,386 --> 00:43:43,988 That's awesome. 619 00:43:44,021 --> 00:43:48,959 Okay, so I have a last question to conclude this interview, and it's about 620 00:43:48,993 --> 00:43:55,666 people who might have influenced your career or counted or motivated you. 621 00:43:55,699 --> 00:44:02,373 If you think of people who you cross path with and you really said, Oh, that person 622 00:44:02,406 --> 00:44:05,776 really helped, who would it be and why? 623 00:44:05,843 --> 00:44:10,180 To be honest, I think that one of the 624 00:44:10,180 --> 00:44:14,618 most influential people in my path from 625 00:44:14,652 --> 00:44:18,889 musician to advocate or activist, 626 00:44:18,889 --> 00:44:24,361 or at least active musician, in that sense, was 627 00:44:24,361 --> 00:44:30,734 the professor I had in grad school who accused me of forging my doctor's notes. 628 00:44:31,535 --> 00:44:36,440 I was in a car crash in my first semester of grad school. 629 00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:40,177 I was in another car crash in my second semester of grad school. 630 00:44:40,210 --> 00:44:43,547 Very bad luck just happens. 631 00:44:43,580 --> 00:44:47,618 You never know when that's going to happen to you. 632 00:44:47,651 --> 00:44:52,623 I needed incompletes because I couldn't use a computer. 633 00:44:52,656 --> 00:44:54,591 The lights were too bright. I couldn't think. 634 00:44:54,625 --> 00:44:56,493 I couldn't string a sentence together. 635 00:44:56,527 --> 00:45:01,865 It was really difficult, really difficult time, a lot of neurological problems. 636 00:45:01,899 --> 00:45:04,735 And it was April. 637 00:45:04,735 --> 00:45:07,704 It was the end of the semester, and I went to my professors 638 00:45:07,738 --> 00:45:10,140 and was like, hey, I need incompletes. It just has to happen. 639 00:45:10,140 --> 00:45:13,343 I can't finish the work. 640 00:45:13,377 --> 00:45:17,614 And I had one professor who wouldn't give me one. 641 00:45:17,648 --> 00:45:21,385 And if I failed that class, which I would have 642 00:45:21,418 --> 00:45:24,421 because my work after the car, because of these car crashes, 643 00:45:24,421 --> 00:45:28,058 was not great, and I couldn't finish the assignments, 644 00:45:28,092 --> 00:45:32,396 I would have failed the class, which would kick out of the department. 645 00:45:32,396 --> 00:45:37,434 So I had one person, one person, 646 00:45:37,468 --> 00:45:41,672 whose doubt could have just 647 00:45:41,705 --> 00:45:43,974 derailed my entire career. 648 00:45:44,007 --> 00:45:48,145 I would have lost almost everything that I worked for to that point. 649 00:45:48,178 --> 00:45:54,418 That one person definitely 650 00:45:54,418 --> 00:45:56,854 motivated me, I will say. 651 00:45:56,887 --> 00:46:03,427 That person, in a sense, gave me the permission to see myself as disabled 652 00:46:03,460 --> 00:46:05,829 because I had not started doing that yet. 653 00:46:05,829 --> 00:46:08,999 I did not see myself as that at that time. 654 00:46:08,999 --> 00:46:14,571 But the moment someone saw that in me and assigned that label to me and then 655 00:46:14,605 --> 00:46:19,676 used it for discrimination, that gave me the permission 656 00:46:19,710 --> 00:46:22,312 I needed to say, You know what? 657 00:46:22,346 --> 00:46:23,814 I do have access needs. 658 00:46:23,847 --> 00:46:25,082 I do need to wear these glasses. 659 00:46:25,082 --> 00:46:32,256 I do need all of this administrative support so I don't forget things. 660 00:46:32,289 --> 00:46:37,995 I suddenly had neurological problems that I never had before, 661 00:46:38,028 --> 00:46:41,632 and I probably would have just 662 00:46:42,533 --> 00:46:48,639 shrugged and struggled along without that 663 00:46:48,639 --> 00:46:54,178 graduate advisor telling me that, well, are you sure this is from your doctor? 664 00:46:54,178 --> 00:46:58,849 Because it just looks like you copied the header on a piece of paper. 665 00:47:01,251 --> 00:47:02,519 Now I am here. I am in RAMPD. 666 00:47:02,553 --> 00:47:03,921 I am on this podcast. 667 00:47:03,921 --> 00:47:05,722 I am very proudly disabled. 668 00:47:05,756 --> 00:47:08,692 I am happy to be part of the community. 669 00:47:08,725 --> 00:47:11,995 And as much as my teachers, 670 00:47:12,029 --> 00:47:18,135 as my family, as my cats have supported me, 671 00:47:18,835 --> 00:47:21,038 someone pissing me off 672 00:47:21,038 --> 00:47:25,576 was actually a little bit more helpful 673 00:47:25,609 --> 00:47:28,912 than maybe I realized in that moment. 674 00:47:29,913 --> 00:47:31,014 It's very interesting. 675 00:47:31,048 --> 00:47:35,619 It's incredible that a negativity 676 00:47:35,652 --> 00:47:39,890 pushed you to become positive with 677 00:47:39,923 --> 00:47:41,658 everything that was happening to you. 678 00:47:41,692 --> 00:47:43,961 Well done. 679 00:47:43,961 --> 00:47:46,630 Fight is a very powerful motivation. 680 00:47:46,663 --> 00:47:53,136 I would encourage anyone who has experienced something like that, use it. 681 00:47:53,170 --> 00:47:54,571 Use it to your advantage. 682 00:47:54,605 --> 00:47:56,340 Let it fuel you. 683 00:47:56,373 --> 00:48:00,210 Because I might still be living in my parents house 684 00:48:00,477 --> 00:48:06,817 if I had let that person just walk all over me, and if I had let her kick me 685 00:48:06,817 --> 00:48:10,621 out of the department, if I had let her take those things from me, I don't know. 686 00:48:10,654 --> 00:48:13,757 I probably wouldn't have all the things I have today. 687 00:48:13,757 --> 00:48:17,527 So let those things motivate you. 688 00:48:18,462 --> 00:48:25,602 Well, thank you for all these bits of experiences. 689 00:48:25,602 --> 00:48:29,673 Really, it was very interesting to chat with you about 690 00:48:29,673 --> 00:48:32,743 your experience in this musical path. 691 00:48:32,743 --> 00:48:34,511 Thank you. 692 00:48:34,845 --> 00:48:37,214 Well, good luck for your big project. 693 00:48:37,247 --> 00:48:38,548 We are going to follow that. 694 00:48:38,582 --> 00:48:42,252 There's going to be a resource page where we're going to definitely publish things. 695 00:48:42,286 --> 00:48:45,822 So yeah, hopefully it will come soon. 696 00:48:45,856 --> 00:48:50,494 And, yeah, for every other project that you have. 697 00:48:50,527 --> 00:48:55,632 Maybe see you in one of the RAMPD events, maybe see you around. 698 00:48:55,666 --> 00:48:58,535 That would be very nice. 699 00:48:58,568 --> 00:49:00,103 I agree. 700 00:49:00,137 --> 00:49:01,571 Okay. Have a great day. 701 00:49:01,605 --> 00:49:03,640 Thanks, Diane. You too. 702 00:49:03,640 --> 00:49:05,309 Bye. Take care.. 703 00:49:06,977 --> 00:49:12,115 ♪ Closing theme music ♪