1 00:00:01,000 --> 00:00:06,139 ♪ Opening theme music ♪ 2 00:00:13,246 --> 00:00:17,584 Hello, and welcome to this episode of ArtsAbly in Conversation. 3 00:00:17,617 --> 00:00:19,753 My name is Diane Kolin. 4 00:00:19,919 --> 00:00:25,125 This series presents artists, academics, and project leaders who dedicate their 5 00:00:25,158 --> 00:00:30,897 time and energy to a better accessibility for people with disabilities in the arts. 6 00:00:30,930 --> 00:00:35,802 You can find more of these conversations on our website, artsably.com, 7 00:00:35,802 --> 00:00:41,107 which is spelled A-R-T-S-A-B-L-Y dot com. 8 00:00:42,175 --> 00:00:47,313 ♪ Theme music ♪ 9 00:00:54,421 --> 00:00:58,358 Today, ArtsAbly is in conversation with Reverend Chris Wylie, 10 00:00:58,358 --> 00:01:04,597 aka DJ Pastor Rock, a musician, songwriter, vocalist, and pastor 11 00:01:04,631 --> 00:01:07,200 living in Buffalo, New York. 12 00:01:07,233 --> 00:01:11,304 You can find the resources mentioned by Chris Wylie during this episode 13 00:01:11,304 --> 00:01:14,474 on ArtsAbly's website in the blog section. 14 00:01:15,608 --> 00:01:20,747 ♪ DJ Pastor Rock sings "Bringing fire" ♪ 15 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:28,021 Here comes the terror brought 16 00:01:28,021 --> 00:01:29,656 Brought on like a storm 17 00:01:29,656 --> 00:01:30,924 Dropping these rhymes like 18 00:01:30,924 --> 00:01:32,459 You ain't heard before. 19 00:01:32,459 --> 00:01:33,726 You think you're in power, 20 00:01:33,726 --> 00:01:35,228 yeah, you think you're legit? 21 00:01:35,228 --> 00:01:36,529 I'm here to tell you 22 00:01:36,529 --> 00:01:38,231 Words aren't worth. 23 00:01:38,231 --> 00:01:39,666 Bringing fire, bringing fire, 24 00:01:39,666 --> 00:01:41,167 your time is done. 25 00:01:41,167 --> 00:01:43,870 Sound the alarm and get ready to run. 26 00:01:43,870 --> 00:01:45,238 Flipping over tables, 27 00:01:45,238 --> 00:01:46,606 I'm on the hunt. 28 00:01:46,606 --> 00:01:47,807 Your rain is over, 29 00:01:47,807 --> 00:01:49,042 There's a new day begun. 30 00:01:49,042 --> 00:01:53,680 I'm bringing fire, fire, fire. 31 00:01:54,981 --> 00:01:59,185 I'm bringing fire, fire, fire. 32 00:02:00,253 --> 00:02:02,388 Bringing fire, bringing fire, 33 00:02:02,388 --> 00:02:03,389 That's what I said. 34 00:02:03,389 --> 00:02:04,824 Building your empire, 35 00:02:04,824 --> 00:02:05,925 Stepping on the dead, 36 00:02:05,925 --> 00:02:07,494 But you're just another giant, 37 00:02:07,494 --> 00:02:09,095 and I'm David slinging stones. 38 00:02:09,128 --> 00:02:12,098 Got to hit the ground, that's how this story goes. 39 00:02:12,132 --> 00:02:13,533 Bringing fire, bringing fire, 40 00:02:13,533 --> 00:02:14,801 Your time is done. 41 00:02:14,801 --> 00:02:17,804 Sound the alarm and get ready to run. 42 00:02:17,804 --> 00:02:20,206 Flipping over tables, I'm on the hunt. 43 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:23,042 Your rain is over, there's a new day begun. 44 00:02:23,076 --> 00:02:27,013 I'm bringing fire, fire, fire. 45 00:02:28,715 --> 00:02:32,685 I'm bringing fire, fire, fire. 46 00:02:34,521 --> 00:02:37,056 An imperfect body, but I'm still down. 47 00:02:37,090 --> 00:02:40,393 If you keep others out, I ain't messing around. 48 00:02:40,426 --> 00:02:43,096 Hanging on the margins, I'm here and I'm proud. 49 00:02:43,129 --> 00:02:45,698 Build me a ramp or I'll burn you to the ground. 50 00:02:45,732 --> 00:02:49,235 I'm bringing fire, fire, fire. 51 00:02:51,004 --> 00:02:56,543 I'm bringing fire, fire, fire, fire, fire. 52 00:02:57,243 --> 00:02:59,779 Bringing fire, bringing fire all over the earth. 53 00:02:59,812 --> 00:03:02,949 If you come any closer, you're gonna get burned. 54 00:03:02,949 --> 00:03:05,418 Cranking up the heat a couple hundred degrees. 55 00:03:05,451 --> 00:03:08,688 Holy flame thrower clear your eyes and you'll see. 56 00:03:08,688 --> 00:03:11,357 Bringing fire, bringing fire, your time is done. 57 00:03:11,391 --> 00:03:14,561 Sound the alarm and get ready to run. 58 00:03:14,594 --> 00:03:16,863 Flipping over tables, I'm on the hunt. 59 00:03:16,863 --> 00:03:19,599 Your reign is over, there's a new day begun. 60 00:03:19,632 --> 00:03:20,833 I'm bringing fire. Welcome to this new episode 61 00:03:20,833 --> 00:03:29,776 ♪ A firetruck siren marks the end of "Bringing fire" ♪ 62 00:03:31,177 --> 00:03:34,447 Welcome to this new episode of ArtsAbly in Conversation. 63 00:03:34,447 --> 00:03:37,450 Today, I am with Reverend Chris Wyle, 64 00:03:37,450 --> 00:03:41,921 aka DJ Pastor Rock, who is a musician, 65 00:03:41,955 --> 00:03:45,925 a songwriter, a vocalist, and a pastor 66 00:03:45,925 --> 00:03:49,462 living in Buffalo, New York. Welcome, Chris. 67 00:03:50,830 --> 00:03:53,399 Hi, Diane. It's great to be here with you today. 68 00:03:53,433 --> 00:03:55,768 Thank you for being here. 69 00:03:55,768 --> 00:04:01,708 Okay, so I always start episodes by asking about background. 70 00:04:01,708 --> 00:04:04,177 So what about yours? 71 00:04:04,544 --> 00:04:06,646 What brought you to music? 72 00:04:06,679 --> 00:04:10,049 What brought you to everything you're doing as an activist in life? 73 00:04:10,049 --> 00:04:11,050 Thank you. 74 00:04:12,752 --> 00:04:13,586 Sure. 75 00:04:13,620 --> 00:04:18,191 As you said, my name is Reverend Chris Wylie, DJ Pastor Rock, and I'm 76 00:04:18,191 --> 00:04:25,698 a disabled queer wheelchair-using person 77 00:04:26,232 --> 00:04:31,404 The thing that really brought me to music? I think community, 78 00:04:31,437 --> 00:04:36,476 being a young disabled kid growing up 79 00:04:36,476 --> 00:04:40,446 in in the '70s and really '80s by the time 80 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:44,317 I was entering my teens and things, 81 00:04:46,085 --> 00:04:47,654 There was some exclusion, 82 00:04:47,654 --> 00:04:52,759 and there were some things where society really didn't 83 00:04:53,993 --> 00:04:57,397 try really so hard to include disabled people 84 00:04:57,430 --> 00:05:01,934 the way that sometimes they do now. 85 00:05:01,968 --> 00:05:06,839 So it was feeling a little bit on the outside, and... 86 00:05:07,473 --> 00:05:09,042 But music was the one thing 87 00:05:09,075 --> 00:05:11,778 that people couldn't take away from me. 88 00:05:11,811 --> 00:05:16,082 So I had met some friends who were also 89 00:05:16,115 --> 00:05:19,385 a little bit outsiders, and we just 90 00:05:19,419 --> 00:05:21,721 started making music together. 91 00:05:21,754 --> 00:05:28,661 I started a little bit on the bass, guitar, and then quickly 92 00:05:28,695 --> 00:05:32,832 after that started playing drums, which is my main instrument 93 00:05:32,832 --> 00:05:36,836 or was my main instrument for a long time. 94 00:05:37,603 --> 00:05:45,678 And I've played that for maybe 40 years, a little over, a long time. 95 00:05:46,612 --> 00:05:50,316 And now I am playing bass again, too. 96 00:05:50,350 --> 00:05:53,986 So I've come back to where I started. 97 00:05:54,020 --> 00:05:59,826 So I started doing that and then just 98 00:05:59,826 --> 00:06:02,862 going through and playing in bands, like in high school and 99 00:06:02,862 --> 00:06:04,330 college and things. 100 00:06:04,330 --> 00:06:10,002 And then along the way, got involved in some... 101 00:06:10,036 --> 00:06:16,175 I went to school for broadcasting to do radio and things like that. 102 00:06:16,209 --> 00:06:20,346 But I did some twists and turns and done a few other things. 103 00:06:20,379 --> 00:06:24,784 I've done corporate things. You just interviewed Deshaymond, and they talked about 104 00:06:24,784 --> 00:06:28,788 their work in the corporate world. I did that. 105 00:06:28,821 --> 00:06:35,628 I was in banking for a long time and then advertising and a pastor, 106 00:06:35,628 --> 00:06:38,030 as we've already touched on. 107 00:06:38,030 --> 00:06:40,633 So I've done a lot of those things 108 00:06:40,633 --> 00:06:46,239 and then found my body, as I've gotten older, 109 00:06:46,272 --> 00:06:48,174 has become a little bit more disabled. 110 00:06:48,174 --> 00:06:51,010 And some of the things, just simple things, like 111 00:06:51,010 --> 00:06:54,514 getting in and out of people's houses became more of a challenge and stuff. 112 00:06:54,547 --> 00:06:59,418 And I found my way back into music. 113 00:06:59,452 --> 00:07:01,888 And so that's what brings me here. 114 00:07:01,921 --> 00:07:06,225 I started writing and recording my own music and things, which is 115 00:07:06,259 --> 00:07:12,732 something that I wanted to do from back in the day, but it was a process. 116 00:07:12,765 --> 00:07:16,769 We didn't have the technology that we have now and all kinds of things. 117 00:07:16,769 --> 00:07:20,907 So there's a lot of layers to that story. 118 00:07:21,407 --> 00:07:24,911 So what's your musical style? 119 00:07:24,911 --> 00:07:29,348 My musical style, I make 120 00:07:29,649 --> 00:07:32,985 justice-oriented hip hop and rock 121 00:07:33,019 --> 00:07:34,887 with accessible pop hooks. 122 00:07:34,921 --> 00:07:37,190 That's my catch phrase. 123 00:07:37,190 --> 00:07:44,230 It's like there's so many influences, again, growing up in the early days of 124 00:07:44,230 --> 00:07:49,001 rap and things like that with Public Enemy and some of those things. 125 00:07:49,035 --> 00:07:53,372 That's a big influence because they were talking about their experience. 126 00:07:53,406 --> 00:08:00,746 And a lot of it is centered on liberation, which is a big thing for me. 127 00:08:00,780 --> 00:08:05,585 And so that is definitely an influence there, but also rock. 128 00:08:05,618 --> 00:08:09,388 But then one thing that I think is always funny where 129 00:08:09,422 --> 00:08:12,725 I mentioned the accessible pop hooks. 130 00:08:12,758 --> 00:08:17,697 If people don't want to listen to your music, what's the point? 131 00:08:17,730 --> 00:08:20,233 So I always add layers in. 132 00:08:20,266 --> 00:08:25,805 And I was really influenced a lot by people like 133 00:08:26,172 --> 00:08:30,643 Stevie Wonder - it came up on your recent podcast - and like 134 00:08:30,676 --> 00:08:34,981 Songs in the Key of Life is a great album, 135 00:08:35,014 --> 00:08:38,784 and Madonna, and Janet Jackson and 136 00:08:38,818 --> 00:08:45,591 some of those people just making, again, the music accessible, making it so 137 00:08:45,591 --> 00:08:48,661 people want to listen, catchy. 138 00:08:48,694 --> 00:08:53,132 But like style-wise, I go all over. 139 00:08:53,165 --> 00:08:56,469 A little bit of rap, a little bit of rock. 140 00:08:56,469 --> 00:09:00,072 I'm working on a blues Americana album right now. 141 00:09:00,072 --> 00:09:05,244 I also play a little harmonica and things. 142 00:09:05,811 --> 00:09:07,013 So, yeah. 143 00:09:07,446 --> 00:09:12,618 Catchy, but I think one of the things that you have in your music, too, 144 00:09:12,652 --> 00:09:17,623 is that since you're an activist, in many ways, you are a disability rights 145 00:09:17,657 --> 00:09:23,129 activist, you are an access activist, 146 00:09:23,162 --> 00:09:26,666 you are a parenting disability activist. 147 00:09:26,699 --> 00:09:33,072 So all this activism comes into your artistic practice, too, right? 148 00:09:33,239 --> 00:09:35,775 For sure, that's true. 149 00:09:35,808 --> 00:09:39,712 I've done a lot of things like the Kairos Center in New York City, 150 00:09:39,745 --> 00:09:44,750 I'm part of their artist collective and poor people's campaigns. 151 00:09:44,750 --> 00:09:48,721 So a lot of justice for me, a lot of things go back to, not even a lot 152 00:09:48,754 --> 00:09:54,327 of things, almost everything to me goes back to justice and inclusion. 153 00:09:54,360 --> 00:10:00,933 I can only really tell my story as a disabled queer artist, 154 00:10:00,967 --> 00:10:06,973 but I also recognize that other people have been historically 155 00:10:07,006 --> 00:10:11,677 marginalized and that their stories have value and need to be here, too. 156 00:10:11,711 --> 00:10:17,216 And I'm not here to tell their story, but I'm here to help create space for 157 00:10:17,216 --> 00:10:19,785 them to be able to also tell their story. 158 00:10:19,819 --> 00:10:23,155 So I think a lot of that is reflected in my music. 159 00:10:23,155 --> 00:10:28,794 But again, when you hear my music, there's always that theme 160 00:10:28,828 --> 00:10:30,663 of justice and inclusion. 161 00:10:30,696 --> 00:10:34,700 But mostly, I hope you hear my story. 162 00:10:34,734 --> 00:10:39,705 You're hearing me tell it from my perspective of what I go through, 163 00:10:39,739 --> 00:10:44,644 what my daily life is, the obstacles that I have to overcome. 164 00:10:44,677 --> 00:10:50,449 And while it's easy to get stuck there on that side of the justice side 165 00:10:50,449 --> 00:10:52,351 and say, look how bad it is. 166 00:10:52,351 --> 00:10:54,286 I always try to have an arc. 167 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:58,557 This is where my pastor side comes out. 168 00:10:58,591 --> 00:11:05,064 I always think that in the end, love is what I think rises above all of that. 169 00:11:05,097 --> 00:11:09,301 So I think I always try to go from 170 00:11:09,301 --> 00:11:13,739 that side of things, the side of exclusion 171 00:11:13,773 --> 00:11:17,543 toward inclusion, but also to community. 172 00:11:17,576 --> 00:11:22,048 And I've had so many people in my life really be able 173 00:11:22,081 --> 00:11:28,154 to have conversations with me and be willing to work with me and so on. 174 00:11:28,154 --> 00:11:30,856 I mean, that's all part of it, too, is like, 175 00:11:30,856 --> 00:11:36,028 yeah, we need to fight and work for 176 00:11:36,062 --> 00:11:43,369 access and inclusion and justice and liberation, but don't forget the love. 177 00:11:44,136 --> 00:11:46,439 For sure. 178 00:11:48,641 --> 00:11:54,146 Speaking of community, We are both part of one community, 179 00:11:54,180 --> 00:11:56,549 which is special to both of us, 180 00:11:56,549 --> 00:12:03,355 called RAMPD, recording artists and music professionals with disabilities. 181 00:12:03,355 --> 00:12:07,293 Can you talk a bit about how you got into RAMPD 182 00:12:07,293 --> 00:12:10,196 and what's your role in RAMPD today? 183 00:12:10,196 --> 00:12:14,366 Yes, I'm on the Partnerships Committee. 184 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:20,139 I was the recent past co-chair, but I'm also the treasurer of RAMPD, 185 00:12:20,172 --> 00:12:24,443 which is where I get to use a little bit of my banking background and things. 186 00:12:24,477 --> 00:12:29,615 I was in commercial finance and things like that for a long time. 187 00:12:29,915 --> 00:12:31,417 So that's helpful. 188 00:12:31,450 --> 00:12:35,454 So yeah, I'm, as you said, a professional member of RAMPD. 189 00:12:35,454 --> 00:12:38,324 I'm the treasurer, I'm on the Partnerships Committee. 190 00:12:38,324 --> 00:12:41,594 and that has opened up doors to 191 00:12:41,794 --> 00:12:43,028 a whole bunch of other things. 192 00:12:43,129 --> 00:12:45,631 And it's a great space. 193 00:12:45,631 --> 00:12:51,904 Now, how I got involved, I had gotten to know Gaelynn Lea a little bit, who is 194 00:12:51,937 --> 00:12:54,707 one of the cofounders along with Lachi. 195 00:12:54,740 --> 00:12:59,011 And now I see Lachi all the time, but I didn't know Lachi back then, 196 00:12:59,011 --> 00:13:03,616 but I knew Gaelynn, and I knew Gaelynn was working on something, 197 00:13:03,649 --> 00:13:05,651 and I wanted to know what it was. 198 00:13:05,651 --> 00:13:09,221 I'm like, Gaelynn, what are you working on? Gaelynn, what are you working on? 199 00:13:09,255 --> 00:13:13,893 Because I mentioned just earlier in the interview at the beginning, 200 00:13:14,627 --> 00:13:22,568 exclusion and all that that I faced when I was a young person coming up. 201 00:13:22,601 --> 00:13:27,206 And that's one of the things that I love so much about RAMPD is 202 00:13:29,041 --> 00:13:35,181 that it's helping to amplify and lift up disability culture 203 00:13:35,214 --> 00:13:39,285 and create opportunities for disabled artists and others 204 00:13:39,318 --> 00:13:43,355 to be involved in the music industry 205 00:13:43,489 --> 00:13:46,959 and help clear some of those hurdles, 206 00:13:46,992 --> 00:13:51,297 help build those ramps that maybe I didn't have. 207 00:13:51,330 --> 00:13:56,135 And I think that's what's really important to me. 208 00:13:56,135 --> 00:14:00,172 I can't go back, but I can help try to make somebody else's path 209 00:14:00,206 --> 00:14:02,575 a little bit smoother going forward. 210 00:14:02,608 --> 00:14:04,410 So it's a win-win. 211 00:14:04,410 --> 00:14:08,914 I get to do the things I'm doing, but I to help other people along the way. 212 00:14:08,914 --> 00:14:12,585 But yeah, a lot of that started with my relationship with Gaelynn Lee, 213 00:14:12,585 --> 00:14:17,389 who is amazing and wonderful, a great person and a really great, 214 00:14:17,389 --> 00:14:20,693 talented musician as well. 215 00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:21,994 Yes, she is. 216 00:14:22,027 --> 00:14:27,733 A lot of musicians I know from this community are really amazing in 217 00:14:27,733 --> 00:14:34,506 sharing their stories and also trying to connect and help each other, which I really... 218 00:14:34,673 --> 00:14:36,842 We don't see that every day in life. 219 00:14:36,875 --> 00:14:39,111 So it's really appreciative. 220 00:14:39,111 --> 00:14:44,049 I think we know what it's like to be on the outside a lot of times, 221 00:14:44,049 --> 00:14:48,587 to have to do the extra work that sometimes we have to do. 222 00:14:48,621 --> 00:14:51,857 We always have a little bit more to do, even on our good days, 223 00:14:51,890 --> 00:14:56,829 even when people are trying, because we have to think about accessibility 224 00:14:56,829 --> 00:15:02,134 and we have to think about how we're going to be able to make things work in a way 225 00:15:02,134 --> 00:15:05,304 that non-disabled people don't really have to think about. 226 00:15:05,337 --> 00:15:10,276 I often say We live in a world not built to include us. 227 00:15:10,276 --> 00:15:13,412 So it's getting better. People are trying. 228 00:15:13,412 --> 00:15:15,481 We're moving forward. 229 00:15:15,614 --> 00:15:20,085 But we all know that - You and I are both wheelchair users. 230 00:15:20,119 --> 00:15:25,791 So we know what that's like to be rolling around and to have difficulty 231 00:15:25,824 --> 00:15:31,330 getting in a building or, Oh, here's a flight of stairs or something. 232 00:15:31,330 --> 00:15:36,402 We know all of those things, and we know where things 233 00:15:36,435 --> 00:15:38,537 have maybe been difficult for us. 234 00:15:38,570 --> 00:15:43,942 So I feel like we also work together 235 00:15:43,976 --> 00:15:47,279 to say, Hey, it becomes more than just 236 00:15:47,313 --> 00:15:51,083 about yourself, but again, about that community, about each other. 237 00:15:51,116 --> 00:15:57,890 So we're all doing our own things and trying to keep those things going. 238 00:15:57,923 --> 00:16:00,359 But also we're in it for each other because 239 00:16:00,359 --> 00:16:03,796 when one of us succeeds, we all succeed. 240 00:16:03,796 --> 00:16:06,932 And I think that's a really beautiful thing. 241 00:16:06,966 --> 00:16:10,069 And also, just as a side note, thinking about all the people 242 00:16:10,102 --> 00:16:15,908 I've met from RAMPD, including you, who knew there were so many of us? 243 00:16:15,941 --> 00:16:21,747 It's amazing to see all these beautiful, wonderful, talented people. 244 00:16:22,614 --> 00:16:24,350 Yeah, for sure. 245 00:16:24,350 --> 00:16:29,855 Also, I think by seeing, as you say, by seeing the successes that 246 00:16:29,855 --> 00:16:35,661 happen all around us, we meet frequently and we cheer for each other. 247 00:16:35,694 --> 00:16:42,167 I think it pulls up to higher levels. 248 00:16:42,201 --> 00:16:46,305 We really wanted to - Okay, so that gives me an idea. 249 00:16:46,305 --> 00:16:50,209 Or when they connect us and say, Oh, by the way, this person is willing 250 00:16:50,209 --> 00:16:53,145 to work with you and do that. 251 00:16:53,178 --> 00:16:59,284 And that I find it's really an amazing community of musicians. 252 00:17:00,152 --> 00:17:01,553 It is amazing. 253 00:17:01,587 --> 00:17:06,025 I was just out in Vancouver for the Vancouver Film Festival. 254 00:17:06,025 --> 00:17:12,197 I was part of the Amp program, which is a program to also help create 255 00:17:12,231 --> 00:17:18,604 opportunities and build connections for marginalized musicians 256 00:17:18,637 --> 00:17:21,840 and filmmakers and composers and such. 257 00:17:21,874 --> 00:17:28,547 And that happened through RAMPD. 258 00:17:29,181 --> 00:17:35,554 So again, those opportunities to just do really great things, 259 00:17:35,587 --> 00:17:37,456 that was my opportunity be out. 260 00:17:37,489 --> 00:17:41,326 But also while I was there, I was like, RAMPD, RAMPD, RAMPD, RAMPD, RAMPD. 261 00:17:41,360 --> 00:17:49,435 Every other word, I think, and talking about it and sharing all those things. 262 00:17:49,435 --> 00:17:51,236 So that was amazing, too. 263 00:17:52,771 --> 00:17:57,443 You just came back from Vancouver, and you told me that 264 00:17:57,443 --> 00:18:00,245 you are working on a new album right now. 265 00:18:00,279 --> 00:18:02,381 Can you give us more details? 266 00:18:02,414 --> 00:18:03,215 I am, yeah. 267 00:18:03,215 --> 00:18:08,987 I just came back from Vancouver, again, the film festival, and 268 00:18:08,987 --> 00:18:11,757 doing my things out there, which was incredible. 269 00:18:11,790 --> 00:18:18,096 Great opportunity and met so many amazing people who are doing amazing things. 270 00:18:18,096 --> 00:18:22,868 We have Tony Scudellari, who is 271 00:18:22,901 --> 00:18:25,437 the person who is one of the people 272 00:18:25,471 --> 00:18:31,710 who started the Amp program, is also one of the people who are 273 00:18:31,710 --> 00:18:33,912 on the Board of Advisors for RAMPD. 274 00:18:33,912 --> 00:18:36,515 So that is a great connection. 275 00:18:36,548 --> 00:18:40,152 And then I was in New York City just before that. 276 00:18:40,152 --> 00:18:45,090 But before and during and amidst all that, and that's the fun of music, right? 277 00:18:45,090 --> 00:18:50,295 Also working on an album that's a blues-based album, which is a little bit 278 00:18:50,295 --> 00:18:56,535 different for me, but maybe a pocket that I'll settle in for a little while. 279 00:18:56,568 --> 00:19:00,639 I think there's some opportunities there. 280 00:19:01,773 --> 00:19:03,609 And plus it's fun. 281 00:19:03,609 --> 00:19:08,347 I get to do the things like play harmonica a little bit and other things. 282 00:19:08,380 --> 00:19:13,318 So I'm working on this album and trying to have a little bit more of a wide feel 283 00:19:13,352 --> 00:19:18,457 to the work, maybe not quite so polished as some of the other things. 284 00:19:18,490 --> 00:19:23,495 And again, I know your past guest who I've already mentioned, Deshaymond, 285 00:19:23,529 --> 00:19:29,801 touched on that, just leave a little bit of the flavor in there. 286 00:19:29,835 --> 00:19:34,540 And so working on that, I just released, just because I was in a rush, I wanted to 287 00:19:34,573 --> 00:19:36,041 get it out for the film festival. 288 00:19:36,074 --> 00:19:40,879 There was a song called Underway that I just released. 289 00:19:40,913 --> 00:19:45,183 And again, that was just telling my story as a disabled person 290 00:19:45,217 --> 00:19:50,022 trying to navigate the world and things, and that's part of that project. 291 00:19:50,055 --> 00:19:54,192 So I'm working on that. It's a little early. 292 00:19:54,626 --> 00:19:59,398 I just finished a punk album with my band moshcats!. 293 00:19:59,965 --> 00:20:03,135 So I always got something cooking. 294 00:20:03,168 --> 00:20:06,038 I'm out here doing my thing. 295 00:20:06,071 --> 00:20:10,275 Very good. That's bubbling projects. 296 00:20:10,275 --> 00:20:13,312 It's great. 297 00:20:15,047 --> 00:20:21,687 Ok so I have a question about what accessibility 298 00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:23,722 in the arts, which is really what we try 299 00:20:23,755 --> 00:20:28,694 to promote and try to show that it's a 300 00:20:28,727 --> 00:20:32,130 possibility in our life to do some music. 301 00:20:32,164 --> 00:20:35,801 For me, it's a mix between disability arts 302 00:20:35,834 --> 00:20:39,471 or crip culture sometimes, things 303 00:20:39,504 --> 00:20:43,609 like that, which is - I like the notion 304 00:20:43,609 --> 00:20:47,579 of trying to punch in the face 305 00:20:47,613 --> 00:20:50,449 some notions that people have. 306 00:20:50,482 --> 00:20:53,285 Accessibility arts is one. 307 00:20:53,318 --> 00:20:58,090 What does it mean for you to really work in that environment where 308 00:20:58,090 --> 00:21:00,892 we promote accessibility in the arts? 309 00:21:00,892 --> 00:21:04,963 You're really speaking my language here now, for sure. 310 00:21:04,997 --> 00:21:06,732 You know what I mean? 311 00:21:06,732 --> 00:21:12,170 Liberation, again, is how I always phrase it. 312 00:21:12,204 --> 00:21:14,906 And you're doing something that's countercultural. 313 00:21:14,940 --> 00:21:17,909 Inclusion and love itself, though, is countercultural. 314 00:21:17,909 --> 00:21:19,177 It's punk. 315 00:21:19,211 --> 00:21:22,014 That's how the punk album came to be. 316 00:21:22,014 --> 00:21:29,321 People might think punk is something that it isn't, but mostly punk is about 317 00:21:29,354 --> 00:21:34,626 taking systems, usually of inequity, and flipping those tables around. 318 00:21:34,660 --> 00:21:38,063 And I think that's what accessibility in 319 00:21:39,965 --> 00:21:44,202 the arts really means to me is that, 320 00:21:44,770 --> 00:21:47,072 hopefully people want to work with us. 321 00:21:47,105 --> 00:21:51,410 A lot of people do want to work with us, but in those times that they don't maybe 322 00:21:51,410 --> 00:21:54,112 want to work with us quite so readily, we're going to push 323 00:21:54,146 --> 00:21:58,250 the door open a little bit on them and we're going to come in anyway. 324 00:21:59,084 --> 00:22:03,855 But again, I think I'd rather focus still 325 00:22:03,855 --> 00:22:06,491 on the community and the love. 326 00:22:06,491 --> 00:22:09,995 I think that's where accessibility in the arts really makes a difference. 327 00:22:09,995 --> 00:22:16,134 You have people outside, but there's all these voices, right? 328 00:22:16,168 --> 00:22:19,104 And promoting accessibility in the arts. 329 00:22:19,137 --> 00:22:24,609 I think it's really important for us to each have our story, a space 330 00:22:24,609 --> 00:22:27,713 where we can each tell our story and share our experience. 331 00:22:27,746 --> 00:22:31,049 When I think about accessibility in the arts 332 00:22:31,049 --> 00:22:35,887 and what that means to me, I really think about our collective 333 00:22:35,921 --> 00:22:42,494 humanity, and how, when one of our stories aren't being heard, 334 00:22:42,494 --> 00:22:46,932 when we don't have the space to share, our story, our collective story, 335 00:22:46,932 --> 00:22:50,135 our universal story is incomplete. 336 00:22:50,168 --> 00:22:55,307 So when I think about accessibility in the arts, that's what it means to me. 337 00:22:55,340 --> 00:22:59,010 It's just just flipping around 338 00:22:59,044 --> 00:23:03,515 the tables that say, only the people 339 00:23:03,515 --> 00:23:06,852 in the center of the narrative will have their story told. 340 00:23:06,885 --> 00:23:13,825 Only the people at the top get all the resources. 341 00:23:13,825 --> 00:23:16,428 But to flip that around and say it's our collective journey, 342 00:23:16,461 --> 00:23:18,430 it's our collective experience. 343 00:23:18,663 --> 00:23:21,733 Because I think when any of our experiences, any of our stories 344 00:23:21,733 --> 00:23:28,406 are left incomplete or out, then our collective story, again, is incomplete. 345 00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:31,843 And that's what I think about when I think about accessibility in the arts. 346 00:23:31,877 --> 00:23:35,413 It's just a better telling of our story. 347 00:23:35,447 --> 00:23:39,451 If I were writing a play, 348 00:23:39,451 --> 00:23:43,989 it would be like if I only have 349 00:23:43,989 --> 00:23:49,628 like scene one in the movie might be the story that most people hear. 350 00:23:49,661 --> 00:23:53,799 But you need the other two acts in the story to make it complete. 351 00:23:53,832 --> 00:23:56,134 And that's bringing in all these other voices, 352 00:23:56,134 --> 00:23:59,771 bringing all of our other experiences in. 353 00:23:59,805 --> 00:24:04,609 And so, again, that's to me, that's what I think about when I think 354 00:24:04,609 --> 00:24:06,111 about accessibility in the arts. 355 00:24:06,111 --> 00:24:09,448 It's just a more complete telling of our story. 356 00:24:10,382 --> 00:24:13,652 I like also the aspect of teaching 357 00:24:13,652 --> 00:24:16,888 younger kids because these younger kids 358 00:24:16,922 --> 00:24:21,293 not only will learn themselves how to give their voice and how 359 00:24:21,293 --> 00:24:24,229 to express themselves about anything. 360 00:24:24,229 --> 00:24:28,266 It could be about their own identity, it could be about a disability, it could 361 00:24:28,300 --> 00:24:31,570 be about a relationship to others. 362 00:24:31,603 --> 00:24:37,976 But when you start small and you're guided in that, then your voice, 363 00:24:38,009 --> 00:24:42,981 and your voice as a child is as important as a voice as an adult. 364 00:24:43,014 --> 00:24:48,153 Really to push them and to accompany them. 365 00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:52,157 Then if you do it in a way that really 366 00:24:52,190 --> 00:24:56,328 triggers some reflection to the children, 367 00:24:56,361 --> 00:25:01,166 then this will go home with them, and they will be the ones guiding 368 00:25:01,199 --> 00:25:05,537 the adults on important conversations. 369 00:25:05,570 --> 00:25:06,972 Absolutely. 370 00:25:07,005 --> 00:25:09,407 And they become adults later. 371 00:25:09,441 --> 00:25:12,711 And so you're opening up those channels for communication, 372 00:25:12,711 --> 00:25:15,814 for them to be able to have the tools. 373 00:25:15,847 --> 00:25:21,586 That's what I love about your work, to open up the channels and give the tools 374 00:25:21,586 --> 00:25:26,825 provide the tools for them to be able to create and to experience and to be 375 00:25:26,858 --> 00:25:28,393 able to express themselves. 376 00:25:28,393 --> 00:25:33,665 Because I can say things in music that I can't really say or that I might 377 00:25:33,698 --> 00:25:36,968 have difficulty saying without music. 378 00:25:37,002 --> 00:25:44,743 If I put something in a song, it's fuller. 379 00:25:44,776 --> 00:25:49,247 And it's also people hear it in a different way because you put a beat 380 00:25:49,281 --> 00:25:53,418 behind it and you give it a hook and everything. 381 00:25:53,451 --> 00:25:59,157 And you're starting from the beginning with the kids and giving them those tools 382 00:25:59,190 --> 00:26:03,795 and saying, Hey, here this is your world, too, and I want to hear your story. 383 00:26:03,795 --> 00:26:08,033 And there's something really powerful in that because 384 00:26:08,466 --> 00:26:10,435 it's easy to overlook people. 385 00:26:10,468 --> 00:26:17,809 It's particularly easy to overlook children and say, They're just kids. 386 00:26:17,842 --> 00:26:24,316 But when they recognize that you care and that you want to hear them, too, 387 00:26:24,316 --> 00:26:26,284 that's such a powerful motivator. 388 00:26:26,318 --> 00:26:32,223 Like you said, they go home and they tell their parents and they tell others, but 389 00:26:32,257 --> 00:26:35,226 then they grow up and it inspires them. 390 00:26:35,260 --> 00:26:41,866 I mean, I had people help me when I was a younger child and really listened 391 00:26:41,900 --> 00:26:45,470 to me when I was a younger child. 392 00:26:45,770 --> 00:26:48,406 That really changed the way that I look at the world. 393 00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:53,144 It made me say, Well, I had all these people help me and 394 00:26:53,178 --> 00:26:55,614 share with me and help me find my voice. 395 00:26:55,647 --> 00:26:59,084 I want to go and do that for others. 396 00:26:59,484 --> 00:26:59,851 Yeah. 397 00:26:59,884 --> 00:27:06,491 It also comes with the idea of love that you were talking about at the beginning. 398 00:27:06,925 --> 00:27:08,026 Yeah, for sure. 399 00:27:08,727 --> 00:27:12,364 But that is really what I love about your work. 400 00:27:12,397 --> 00:27:17,936 Again, you're starting right at the basics and really saying, 401 00:27:17,936 --> 00:27:24,142 this world can seem so daunting, music can seem so daunting, but really, it isn't. 402 00:27:24,175 --> 00:27:29,447 Really, there's all these opportunities just to sit down and start, and you don't 403 00:27:29,481 --> 00:27:33,752 know where it's going to take you, but it could take you someplace magical. 404 00:27:33,752 --> 00:27:36,554 It can take you amazing, amazing places. 405 00:27:36,554 --> 00:27:40,425 It take you where we're sitting here having a conversation. 406 00:27:40,458 --> 00:27:44,729 A few years ago, we didn't know each other, but now we do. 407 00:27:44,763 --> 00:27:50,468 We're both doing great things, and all that's because of music. 408 00:27:50,468 --> 00:27:52,270 Yeah. And plus, they play. 409 00:27:52,270 --> 00:27:53,905 They have fun. 410 00:27:53,938 --> 00:27:55,607 It's great. 411 00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:56,975 Yeah, and you're right. It should be fun, right? 412 00:27:56,975 --> 00:27:58,109 It's joyful. 413 00:27:58,143 --> 00:28:03,815 If music is not fun, you're doing something wrong. 414 00:28:05,850 --> 00:28:10,388 Okay, so I have a last question for you, and it's about these people 415 00:28:10,422 --> 00:28:16,728 who might have inspired you, impacted you during your musical career. 416 00:28:16,761 --> 00:28:21,199 If you have one or two people to think of, who would it be and why? 417 00:28:21,366 --> 00:28:26,337 That's a hard question to answer because there's so many people. 418 00:28:26,371 --> 00:28:30,975 I can tell you about my influences early on. 419 00:28:31,176 --> 00:28:37,916 I got involved in recording studio work 420 00:28:37,916 --> 00:28:39,784 back in the early 1990s. 421 00:28:39,818 --> 00:28:46,091 That was where I went from just playing drums, trying to early write and record 422 00:28:46,091 --> 00:28:50,261 my own stuff and try to figure that journey out and get involved in that. 423 00:28:50,295 --> 00:28:54,265 So my friend in Buffalo Music Hall of Fame, Geno McManus, 424 00:28:54,299 --> 00:28:56,601 was a huge influence there. 425 00:28:56,734 --> 00:29:00,805 But also just well-known musicians 426 00:29:00,839 --> 00:29:05,043 like Johnny Cash, like Brian Wilson 427 00:29:05,076 --> 00:29:09,981 of the Beach Boys, like George Martin, who did the Beatles work 428 00:29:10,014 --> 00:29:13,051 and everything and all that. 429 00:29:13,084 --> 00:29:19,124 But then I also think about the people who have impacted me along the way and who 430 00:29:19,157 --> 00:29:24,028 have helped me really explore and 431 00:29:24,028 --> 00:29:28,166 build my own music and how that happened. 432 00:29:28,366 --> 00:29:33,505 I have a really close friend, MC Lars, who's an amazing person, and I met him 433 00:29:33,538 --> 00:29:37,809 outside of a show where he was 434 00:29:37,842 --> 00:29:40,945 part of a show of a band that was like 435 00:29:40,979 --> 00:29:43,882 an old ska punk band, and he's a rapper. 436 00:29:43,915 --> 00:29:49,487 But we started having a conversation, and he was like, Write what you know. 437 00:29:49,521 --> 00:29:51,956 That was early. 438 00:29:51,990 --> 00:29:55,226 And then there's another friend, Sam Baker, who's 439 00:29:55,260 --> 00:29:59,631 an amazing disabled musician also. 440 00:30:00,198 --> 00:30:03,334 I said, I happen to be able to sit down with him also 441 00:30:03,334 --> 00:30:06,905 at one of his shows one day. 442 00:30:06,938 --> 00:30:11,609 And I said, I have all these ideas, but I'm having trouble 443 00:30:11,643 --> 00:30:13,611 bringing them into life. 444 00:30:13,645 --> 00:30:17,248 How do I do that as a disabled musician? 445 00:30:17,248 --> 00:30:20,251 And he said something really simple. 446 00:30:20,285 --> 00:30:25,824 I use Logic now as my DAW to be able to write and record. 447 00:30:25,857 --> 00:30:31,095 And I use different programs, but also live instruments and things, too. 448 00:30:31,129 --> 00:30:36,434 But he said, I just use GarageBand, which is like the free version 449 00:30:36,434 --> 00:30:39,837 of the recording software from Apple. 450 00:30:39,871 --> 00:30:45,743 And so we had a conversation about that, and that was a huge influence on me. 451 00:30:45,777 --> 00:30:50,415 And Gaelynn Lea, who I already mentioned, again, a huge influence on me. 452 00:30:50,415 --> 00:30:56,588 Mary Gauthier, another queer artist who's not disabled that I know of, 453 00:30:56,621 --> 00:30:59,857 but is an adoptee, and that's part of my story, too. 454 00:30:59,891 --> 00:31:04,395 And so her work and being able 455 00:31:04,429 --> 00:31:07,599 to encounter her and then 456 00:31:07,599 --> 00:31:10,768 just so many other people who I've worked with along the way. 457 00:31:10,802 --> 00:31:13,037 But again, and Lachi. Lachi comes up, right? 458 00:31:13,037 --> 00:31:15,673 For a lot of us in RAMPD. 459 00:31:15,673 --> 00:31:21,746 It's Gaelynn and Lachi, but so many others, like you, the work 460 00:31:21,779 --> 00:31:25,083 you're doing is an inspiration to me. It really is. 461 00:31:25,116 --> 00:31:29,454 It's amazing. I love it. 462 00:31:29,487 --> 00:31:32,891 And Precious Perez. 463 00:31:32,924 --> 00:31:35,827 And Namel TapWaterz Norris. 464 00:31:35,860 --> 00:31:38,329 There's so many people. 465 00:31:38,363 --> 00:31:40,531 I could just go on. James Ian. 466 00:31:40,531 --> 00:31:44,502 I could just name everybody in RAMPD, I think. 467 00:31:44,535 --> 00:31:50,008 Just, again, being able to be around and share and see those cool things. 468 00:31:50,041 --> 00:31:54,779 Sometimes you get to have these conversations and say, 469 00:31:54,812 --> 00:31:59,884 how can we work together? Or how can we share? 470 00:31:59,884 --> 00:32:01,619 Or what can we do? 471 00:32:01,653 --> 00:32:03,221 Or what are you doing? 472 00:32:03,254 --> 00:32:04,455 And then it gives an idea. 473 00:32:04,455 --> 00:32:05,690 It sparks an idea. 474 00:32:05,690 --> 00:32:10,662 I've seen you use different things and say, I don't have that, 475 00:32:10,695 --> 00:32:11,996 but I do have this. 476 00:32:12,030 --> 00:32:15,066 And so how can I make this work to be able 477 00:32:15,066 --> 00:32:21,773 to do some of those things and all that? It's really cool. 478 00:32:22,774 --> 00:32:26,077 Well, thank you so much for this conversation. 479 00:32:26,110 --> 00:32:28,413 I learned a lot of different things. 480 00:32:28,413 --> 00:32:33,685 I knew you in some aspects, but there are some aspects 481 00:32:33,718 --> 00:32:38,856 that really it's always a pleasure to talk about when we get together. 482 00:32:38,890 --> 00:32:41,059 So, yeah, thank you so much. 483 00:32:41,092 --> 00:32:43,861 Diane, so good to be with you. Thank you. 484 00:32:43,895 --> 00:32:45,963 Well, have a great day and talk soon.. 485 00:32:47,465 --> 00:32:52,603 ♪ Closing theme music ♪