1 00:00:01,000 --> 00:00:06,139 ♪ Opening theme music ♪ 2 00:00:13,446 --> 00:00:17,350 Hello, and welcome to this episode of ArtsAbly in Conversation. 3 00:00:17,350 --> 00:00:19,519 My name is Diane Kolin. 4 00:00:19,786 --> 00:00:25,291 This series presents artists, academics, and project leaders who dedicate their 5 00:00:25,291 --> 00:00:31,231 time and energy to a better accessibility for people with disabilities in the arts. 6 00:00:31,231 --> 00:00:36,636 You can find more of these conversations on our website, artsably.com, 7 00:00:36,636 --> 00:00:41,841 which is spelled A-R-T-S-A-B-L-Y dot com. 8 00:00:43,243 --> 00:00:48,381 ♪ Theme music ♪ 9 00:00:55,622 --> 00:01:01,461 Today, ArtsAbly is in conversation with Mark Erelli, who is an American singer-songwriter, 10 00:01:01,461 --> 00:01:04,764 multi-instrumentalist, and touring folk musician 11 00:01:04,798 --> 00:01:07,133 living in Massachusetts. 12 00:01:07,167 --> 00:01:11,171 You can find the resources mentioned by Mark Erelli during this episode 13 00:01:11,171 --> 00:01:15,308 on ArtsAbly website in the blog section. 14 00:01:25,885 --> 00:01:26,853 Hi. 15 00:01:26,853 --> 00:01:28,788 Oh, yeah. Okay. 16 00:01:32,392 --> 00:01:34,494 Hey, buddy. Hi! 17 00:01:35,161 --> 00:01:40,300 ♪ Mark Erelli - You're Gonna Wanna Remember This ♪ 18 00:01:44,737 --> 00:01:51,244 I don't know where we were going, but Rosalita was on the radio. 19 00:01:55,081 --> 00:02:01,888 I was drumming on the dash and she was whistling to the saxophone. 20 00:02:04,924 --> 00:02:10,563 We never promised each other, but when you only have the summer, 21 00:02:10,597 --> 00:02:16,169 It's almost like September 7th, 22 00:02:16,202 --> 00:02:21,040 you're gonna wanna remember this. 23 00:02:21,074 --> 00:02:26,980 It flies by, it's easy to miss. 24 00:02:27,013 --> 00:02:31,551 Don't play, drink it in. 25 00:02:31,551 --> 00:02:37,290 It happens once and it might not happen again. 26 00:02:37,290 --> 00:02:42,061 The world's going to keep on turning. 27 00:02:42,061 --> 00:02:46,232 That's just the way it is. 28 00:02:46,266 --> 00:02:54,073 So you're gonna wanna remember this. 29 00:02:54,607 --> 00:02:59,746 ♪ Music ♪ 30 00:03:01,581 --> 00:03:04,450 Some old friends picked a weekend 31 00:03:04,450 --> 00:03:07,954 to head up north and get out on the lake, 32 00:03:12,325 --> 00:03:14,794 talk about the wives and kids 33 00:03:14,827 --> 00:03:19,032 and reminisce about the glory days. 34 00:03:21,801 --> 00:03:24,370 Years fly by and days are numbered. 35 00:03:24,370 --> 00:03:32,245 Now we're old enough to wonder and just wise enough to know one thing. 36 00:03:32,946 --> 00:03:37,717 You're gonna wanna remember this. 37 00:03:37,717 --> 00:03:43,690 It flies by, but It's easy to miss. 38 00:03:43,723 --> 00:03:47,560 Don't play, drink in it. 39 00:03:48,394 --> 00:03:53,366 It happens once and it might not happen again. 40 00:03:53,366 --> 00:03:58,104 The world's going to keep on turning. 41 00:03:58,137 --> 00:04:02,609 That's just the way it is. 42 00:04:02,609 --> 00:04:10,416 So you're gonna wanna remember this. 43 00:04:13,453 --> 00:04:17,590 The last time don't always 44 00:04:17,624 --> 00:04:21,461 feel like a last time. 45 00:04:22,195 --> 00:04:26,466 So maybe put your hand in mine 46 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:31,104 and I promise tonight, 47 00:04:33,606 --> 00:04:38,645 you're gonna wanna remember this. 48 00:04:38,678 --> 00:04:44,617 It flies by, it's easy to miss. 49 00:04:44,651 --> 00:04:49,088 Don't play, drink it in. 50 00:04:49,122 --> 00:04:55,128 It happens once and it might never happen again. 51 00:04:55,128 --> 00:04:59,365 The world's gonna keep on turning. 52 00:05:00,033 --> 00:05:04,170 That's just the way it is. 53 00:05:04,170 --> 00:05:10,610 So you're gonna wanna remember. 54 00:05:10,610 --> 00:05:15,348 You're gonna wanna remember. 55 00:05:15,381 --> 00:05:22,388 You're gonna wanna remember this. 56 00:05:23,156 --> 00:05:28,294 ♪ Music ♪ 57 00:05:35,968 --> 00:05:41,107 ♪ End of the song. ♪ 58 00:05:42,041 --> 00:05:45,745 Welcome to this new episode of ArtsAbly in Conversation. 59 00:05:45,778 --> 00:05:51,451 Today, I am with Mark Erelli, who is an American singer, songwriter, 60 00:05:51,484 --> 00:05:57,390 multi-instrumentalist, and also a touring folk musician living in Massachusetts. 61 00:05:57,390 --> 00:05:58,858 Welcome, Mark. 62 00:05:58,891 --> 00:06:01,127 Thank you so much, Diane. 63 00:06:01,227 --> 00:06:05,231 Thank you for taking the time to speak with me today. 64 00:06:05,231 --> 00:06:06,866 It's my pleasure. 65 00:06:07,033 --> 00:06:10,703 Okay, so I know we have a lot of things to talk about because 66 00:06:10,737 --> 00:06:13,873 your artistic life is really rich. 67 00:06:13,873 --> 00:06:20,279 I wanted to have this opportunity to hear about your background, 68 00:06:20,313 --> 00:06:23,116 where do you come from, what brought you to music? 69 00:06:23,182 --> 00:06:28,254 I come to music basically through 70 00:06:28,287 --> 00:06:30,256 high school musicals and middle school 71 00:06:30,289 --> 00:06:33,192 musicals is where I started out. 72 00:06:33,226 --> 00:06:35,094 Though I guess going back even slightly 73 00:06:35,128 --> 00:06:41,801 before that, I grew up glued to MTV. 74 00:06:41,834 --> 00:06:46,506 That was that MTV went on the air when I was a younger kid, 75 00:06:46,506 --> 00:06:51,744 and I just was completely besotted with this, at the time, 76 00:06:51,744 --> 00:06:59,418 very new marriage of visuals and music. 77 00:06:59,886 --> 00:07:02,622 I was just a big music fan growing up. 78 00:07:02,655 --> 00:07:05,958 Didn't know anyone that made music professionally 79 00:07:05,992 --> 00:07:09,428 or at a particularly high level. 80 00:07:09,462 --> 00:07:12,932 I didn't have any musicians to speak of in my family. 81 00:07:12,965 --> 00:07:16,469 My grandfather would sometimes fool around on a little keyboard, 82 00:07:16,502 --> 00:07:22,175 but it just wasn't part of my life. 83 00:07:22,208 --> 00:07:26,679 I had a middle school art teacher who said, You should try out for the musical. 84 00:07:26,712 --> 00:07:30,149 And I did, and I got one of the leads. 85 00:07:30,183 --> 00:07:35,421 And it turned out I could sing, and I hadn't known that before that. 86 00:07:35,454 --> 00:07:40,927 From there, I went from musicals and learning how to sing 87 00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:44,497 to picking up instruments from there. 88 00:07:44,530 --> 00:07:48,568 So a lot of times people ask me, How do you get started in this 89 00:07:48,568 --> 00:07:50,670 singing and playing at the same time? 90 00:07:50,703 --> 00:07:53,005 I didn't learn how to sing and play at the same time. 91 00:07:53,005 --> 00:07:56,242 I learned one thing, and then I added one thing to it, 92 00:07:56,242 --> 00:07:59,278 and I just kept going with that. 93 00:07:59,312 --> 00:08:04,116 I started playing guitar when I was in college, started playing 94 00:08:04,116 --> 00:08:08,788 campus coffeehouses, and I was a biology major 95 00:08:08,788 --> 00:08:14,193 at the time, but just was really 96 00:08:14,227 --> 00:08:20,800 taken with this musical/creative outlet that I had in addition to biology. 97 00:08:20,833 --> 00:08:23,035 I just didn't know how to do it. 98 00:08:23,069 --> 00:08:27,773 I knew at this point, I had met actual biologists, and they were part 99 00:08:27,807 --> 00:08:32,979 of my life, and I didn't really know any actual musicians. 100 00:08:33,012 --> 00:08:39,118 Though whenever any of them came to campus for a performance, I would somehow 101 00:08:39,118 --> 00:08:42,021 find a way to hang out with them and just badger them with questions 102 00:08:42,054 --> 00:08:45,524 about how one did this for a living. 103 00:08:45,524 --> 00:08:51,364 When I graduated with a degree in biology, I still just didn't 104 00:08:51,364 --> 00:08:57,203 really know how to balance music and art or how to do art. 105 00:08:57,203 --> 00:08:59,972 I continued on in graduate school in biology. 106 00:09:00,006 --> 00:09:04,043 I got a master's degree in evolutionary biology. 107 00:09:04,043 --> 00:09:08,447 But all the while, I was playing shows and touring as much as possible 108 00:09:08,481 --> 00:09:15,221 and cutting classes on Fridays to make it to gigs hours away. 109 00:09:15,254 --> 00:09:20,726 Eventually, that led to getting a record deal out in Western Massachusetts, 110 00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:22,662 where I was attending graduate school. 111 00:09:22,695 --> 00:09:29,001 My debut self-titled album came out, I think, a month before 112 00:09:29,001 --> 00:09:34,674 the defense of my master's thesis. 113 00:09:34,707 --> 00:09:38,477 Not to paper over too many of the ups and downs since then, 114 00:09:38,511 --> 00:09:44,083 but I basically never looked back since, that was just over 25 years ago 115 00:09:44,116 --> 00:09:48,788 in 1999, and I'm still doing it. 116 00:09:48,821 --> 00:09:54,527 It's a stupid question, but did the study you had in biology, 117 00:09:54,527 --> 00:10:00,099 did it influence your way of writing, or is it totally separate? 118 00:10:00,132 --> 00:10:05,304 Yeah, that's not a stupid question at all. 119 00:10:05,338 --> 00:10:10,509 Usually, people phrase that question in a 120 00:10:10,509 --> 00:10:14,580 way that I find a little harder to take. 121 00:10:14,614 --> 00:10:18,584 Usually, people say, How did you move from something totally different, 122 00:10:18,584 --> 00:10:20,953 like science, to something like art? 123 00:10:20,987 --> 00:10:28,394 And then I have to go into my whole spiel about how it's all the same. 124 00:10:28,427 --> 00:10:31,297 I think this is something that we 125 00:10:31,330 --> 00:10:37,636 struggle with as societies, as cultures. 126 00:10:37,670 --> 00:10:42,041 Yes, everybody is a unique snowflake with their own set of talents. 127 00:10:42,074 --> 00:10:45,544 It is wonderful, and diversity is wonderful, 128 00:10:45,544 --> 00:10:50,049 but we're all basically the same. 129 00:10:50,049 --> 00:10:54,620 To me, that is a source of compassion and 130 00:10:54,653 --> 00:10:58,591 a source of empathy, that commonality. 131 00:10:58,624 --> 00:11:01,093 I think it extends to all the different disciplines 132 00:11:01,127 --> 00:11:04,030 that we find ourselves engaged in. 133 00:11:04,063 --> 00:11:09,168 Religion, philosophy, science, 134 00:11:09,168 --> 00:11:13,506 creative writing, music, singing. 135 00:11:13,539 --> 00:11:17,743 I actually don't see a difference in any of those things. 136 00:11:17,743 --> 00:11:21,781 I mean, there's minor differences in terms of the approaches or maybe 137 00:11:21,814 --> 00:11:27,620 the philosophical framework that you approach things with, but 138 00:11:27,620 --> 00:11:32,425 they're all just ways of asking the same questions. 139 00:11:32,458 --> 00:11:39,398 And so for me, in science, if you're going to say design an experiment 140 00:11:39,398 --> 00:11:44,904 and carry it out and try and provide evidence supporting or negating 141 00:11:44,904 --> 00:11:47,673 a particular hypothesis. 142 00:11:47,706 --> 00:11:53,079 You need to be creative, you need to be hard working, you need to be persistent, 143 00:11:53,112 --> 00:11:56,348 You need a lot of attention to detail. 144 00:11:56,348 --> 00:11:57,950 You need to be flexible. 145 00:11:57,983 --> 00:11:59,685 You need a lot of good luck. 146 00:11:59,685 --> 00:12:02,121 I'm running out of fingers. 147 00:12:02,154 --> 00:12:06,358 Those are all the things that you need to write a song, too. 148 00:12:06,392 --> 00:12:11,864 For me, I found that the scientific skills 149 00:12:11,897 --> 00:12:14,100 were basically the same ones 150 00:12:14,133 --> 00:12:18,871 that I needed in my musical life as well. 151 00:12:18,904 --> 00:12:24,343 That close observation and the openness 152 00:12:24,343 --> 00:12:27,913 to the interconnectedness of the world 153 00:12:27,947 --> 00:12:33,185 has served me well and comes up over and over again in my heart. 154 00:12:33,219 --> 00:12:38,824 Maybe that allows you to switch from the singer to the songwriter, 155 00:12:38,824 --> 00:12:42,561 to the producer to the sideman. 156 00:12:42,561 --> 00:12:45,898 Can you talk a bit about how your career evolved? 157 00:12:45,931 --> 00:12:48,467 Because you didn't stick to songwriting only, right? 158 00:12:48,467 --> 00:12:50,503 You did a lot of different things. 159 00:12:50,536 --> 00:12:51,470 Yeah, correct. 160 00:12:51,504 --> 00:12:57,576 I started out as more of a conventional singer-songwriter, releasing records 161 00:12:57,576 --> 00:13:00,713 under my own name, and I still do that. 162 00:13:00,746 --> 00:13:06,719 But as much as I love singing and songwriting, I also have always 163 00:13:06,752 --> 00:13:10,022 really loved the instrumentalists 164 00:13:10,055 --> 00:13:14,026 that are maybe slightly less well known 165 00:13:14,026 --> 00:13:21,467 but played a very formative, supportive role behind the front person. 166 00:13:21,500 --> 00:13:26,839 I'm thinking of an an artist, a guitarist like Ry Cooder and his work 167 00:13:26,872 --> 00:13:32,978 with John Hiatt, or an artist like David Lindley, who was very closely associated 168 00:13:33,012 --> 00:13:35,915 with Jackson Browne for a long time. 169 00:13:35,948 --> 00:13:39,451 I always felt as deeply moved and as interested 170 00:13:39,485 --> 00:13:46,125 in what those people were doing as I was in the songwriters themselves. 171 00:13:47,259 --> 00:13:51,530 I really wanted to branch into that stuff myself 172 00:13:51,530 --> 00:13:55,201 and ended up through backing up 173 00:13:55,201 --> 00:14:00,306 and accompanying my friends, my fellow independent singer-singer-songwriter 174 00:14:00,306 --> 00:14:07,746 colleagues, I sidestepped into that side person, that accompanist role. 175 00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:11,183 For me, I think a lot of times people 176 00:14:11,217 --> 00:14:15,788 will say, Are you disappointed that 177 00:14:15,788 --> 00:14:20,659 you're not doing your own thing when you're serving as a sideman? 178 00:14:20,693 --> 00:14:22,728 I'm like, I am doing my own thing. 179 00:14:22,761 --> 00:14:24,263 This is part of my my own thing. 180 00:14:24,296 --> 00:14:27,266 I also have the best seat in the house. 181 00:14:27,299 --> 00:14:32,705 Even people in the front row, I'm like 6 feet from the artist. 182 00:14:32,738 --> 00:14:37,409 I don't work with people just for a paycheck. 183 00:14:37,409 --> 00:14:39,845 I don't even really get those calls. 184 00:14:39,845 --> 00:14:45,517 If I'm there working with someone as a side person, I'm there because I 185 00:14:45,551 --> 00:14:48,621 love that person and I love their music. 186 00:14:48,654 --> 00:14:55,461 For me, I get to stand 6 feet from 187 00:14:55,527 --> 00:14:58,130 Lori McKenna or Josh Ritter 188 00:14:58,130 --> 00:15:03,269 or Marc Cohn or Paula Cole or any of the people that I've played with over the years, 189 00:15:03,269 --> 00:15:05,537 and I get to experience their art 190 00:15:05,571 --> 00:15:11,043 from a very, very close perspective, and I get to know them 191 00:15:11,076 --> 00:15:13,445 better as people, too. 192 00:15:13,445 --> 00:15:20,919 It just enhances my overall love of music, and it energizes me for when I 193 00:15:20,953 --> 00:15:27,559 pivot back towards my my own solo career. 194 00:15:27,593 --> 00:15:30,229 Again, I think a lot of those roles 195 00:15:30,262 --> 00:15:38,137 are only clear-cut or overly 196 00:15:38,170 --> 00:15:43,942 delineated for people that are maybe looking from the outside in. 197 00:15:43,976 --> 00:15:49,748 For me, again, it's all really just versions of the same thing. 198 00:15:49,782 --> 00:15:54,320 As long as I'm making great music with people I love, I'm happy, 199 00:15:54,353 --> 00:15:59,358 whether it's my music or whether it's their music or whatever it is. 200 00:15:59,391 --> 00:16:00,559 I'm good. 201 00:16:00,759 --> 00:16:05,197 Yeah, but it's a very good point that you're making. 202 00:16:05,230 --> 00:16:11,437 It's like we learn from each other, we collaborate, we create together. 203 00:16:11,470 --> 00:16:16,942 That's a very important process, too, and it can bring to your own career 204 00:16:16,975 --> 00:16:21,213 a very enriching experience. 205 00:16:21,246 --> 00:16:22,081 Oh, absolutely. 206 00:16:22,114 --> 00:16:25,617 That doesn't just happen through the music either. 207 00:16:25,651 --> 00:16:31,590 That happens both on stage and in the recording studio and off stage, 208 00:16:31,623 --> 00:16:38,464 away from the music in general. 209 00:16:38,497 --> 00:16:41,834 I see how the people that I work with 210 00:16:41,867 --> 00:16:45,637 deal with adversity in their own lives 211 00:16:45,671 --> 00:16:48,173 or deal with whatever challenge it is. 212 00:16:48,207 --> 00:16:52,277 They get a call from their kid as they're going on stage that someone's 213 00:16:52,311 --> 00:16:57,783 got to a car accident or they've had some career setback or some 214 00:16:57,783 --> 00:16:59,885 particular challenge that they're dealing with. 215 00:16:59,918 --> 00:17:06,759 I get to see how they react and how they approach that situation. 216 00:17:06,759 --> 00:17:13,132 I learned from these artists in a non creative, non musical way, too, 217 00:17:13,165 --> 00:17:17,503 just about how to approach life. 218 00:17:19,171 --> 00:17:23,108 I feel like I learned so much 219 00:17:23,142 --> 00:17:27,780 from my ancillary roles, if you will, 220 00:17:27,780 --> 00:17:32,451 the roles where I'm not the main attraction. 221 00:17:33,018 --> 00:17:37,923 Actually, I need those times 222 00:17:37,923 --> 00:17:41,460 when I'm not the main focus, 223 00:17:42,561 --> 00:17:48,133 mainly because I've always been an independent middle class musician. 224 00:17:48,167 --> 00:17:54,640 I'm not this superstar that has enough resources to just make everything 225 00:17:54,673 --> 00:17:57,643 as easy as it can possibly be. 226 00:17:57,643 --> 00:18:00,913 I'm sure you're aware, as an independent musician, 227 00:18:00,913 --> 00:18:05,517 you're wearing, I don't know how many hats 228 00:18:05,517 --> 00:18:09,521 at any given moment, but certainly in the double digits. 229 00:18:10,122 --> 00:18:15,794 As a side person, I have one job to make - 230 00:18:15,794 --> 00:18:19,798 two jobs, really, to make this artist that I'm working with 231 00:18:20,899 --> 00:18:23,168 feel safe and respected 232 00:18:23,202 --> 00:18:28,807 and to make their music sound as good 233 00:18:28,841 --> 00:18:33,045 as my contribution can possibly make it. 234 00:18:33,045 --> 00:18:38,951 That's a lot simpler than having to be the booking agent and the publicist, 235 00:18:38,951 --> 00:18:45,157 and the arranger or all that stuff. 236 00:18:45,190 --> 00:18:51,964 It's delightfully streamlined, and I need a break from all the myriad of hats that 237 00:18:51,997 --> 00:18:57,669 you have to wear as a the main artist, to just focus on the music sometimes. 238 00:18:57,703 --> 00:19:02,107 It's a real nice breather for me. 239 00:19:02,141 --> 00:19:07,613 Can you talk about your albums and also the process of creation behind each one? 240 00:19:07,646 --> 00:19:11,917 Because I'm pretty sure everything came with a different context 241 00:19:11,950 --> 00:19:14,153 and a different period. 242 00:19:14,186 --> 00:19:15,921 Can you talk about that? 243 00:19:15,921 --> 00:19:18,724 Yeah, I mean, 244 00:19:18,724 --> 00:19:24,396 I don't know if I can go through all of them one by one because there's 13 now 245 00:19:24,429 --> 00:19:26,298 of just records under my own name. 246 00:19:26,331 --> 00:19:28,667 But you're correct in that 247 00:19:28,700 --> 00:19:34,106 I am always trying to push myself 248 00:19:34,139 --> 00:19:39,144 into some sort of new territory. 249 00:19:39,178 --> 00:19:42,648 I don't seek out the new creative 250 00:19:42,681 --> 00:19:48,754 territory as a marketing tool or 251 00:19:48,754 --> 00:19:53,592 as a sign of musical restlessness, per se. 252 00:19:53,625 --> 00:19:58,096 I just learn different things from doing different things. 253 00:19:58,096 --> 00:20:00,799 I think that's how it works from all of us. 254 00:20:00,832 --> 00:20:04,403 If you do the same thing over and over again, after a while, 255 00:20:04,403 --> 00:20:06,405 that learning curve flattens out, right? 256 00:20:06,438 --> 00:20:11,710 You figure out a lot of how it works. 257 00:20:11,743 --> 00:20:15,180 But if you change it up a lot, you're always coming to things 258 00:20:15,213 --> 00:20:22,688 with that beginner's mind that the Zen Buddhist like to talk about. 259 00:20:22,721 --> 00:20:30,462 For me, branching out into different genres or different recording contexts. 260 00:20:30,495 --> 00:20:33,599 Sometimes I'll record in a conventional recording studio, sometimes 261 00:20:33,632 --> 00:20:40,606 I'll record at home, sometimes I'll record on location somewhere 262 00:20:40,639 --> 00:20:45,143 like a Civil War Memorial Hall. 263 00:20:47,079 --> 00:20:50,015 Whether it's different genres or different recording contexts or working 264 00:20:50,048 --> 00:20:55,988 with different musicians, you just learn different things every time. 265 00:20:56,021 --> 00:21:02,361 When you're doing that, the art is going in subtly different, vectoring off in 266 00:21:02,394 --> 00:21:06,498 a subtly different directions every time. 267 00:21:07,399 --> 00:21:13,238 If you do that enough times, you just get a much broader, wider understanding 268 00:21:13,238 --> 00:21:20,345 of what it is to do art as a way of life and what it is 269 00:21:20,379 --> 00:21:24,116 that I personally have to offer, you know. 270 00:21:24,116 --> 00:21:28,587 So, I've done - 271 00:21:28,587 --> 00:21:31,490 You can never say I've done everything 272 00:21:31,490 --> 00:21:35,994 because you've never seen everything as, 273 00:21:36,028 --> 00:21:38,997 I think, Bruce Cockburn, the wonderful Canadian singer-singer-songwriter 274 00:21:38,997 --> 00:21:42,067 has a record called that. 275 00:21:42,100 --> 00:21:46,938 It's true. Every time, it's different. 276 00:21:46,972 --> 00:21:51,276 Even if you did the same thing every time, you would be different 277 00:21:51,309 --> 00:21:53,779 every time you went back to do it. 278 00:21:53,779 --> 00:21:56,548 Right? So... 279 00:21:57,516 --> 00:21:59,317 I just look at every project 280 00:21:59,351 --> 00:22:02,154 as an opportunity to learn 281 00:22:02,187 --> 00:22:10,629 about myself, about recording techniques, about musical approaches, about genres, 282 00:22:11,897 --> 00:22:17,769 about different people that I'm choosing to work with and what they have to offer. 283 00:22:19,771 --> 00:22:23,342 I just find it endlessly interesting 284 00:22:23,375 --> 00:22:30,782 and I haven't been bored once in 25 years. 285 00:22:32,284 --> 00:22:36,388 That's the beauty of working in music, is that we never get bored. 286 00:22:36,388 --> 00:22:39,624 You never reach the bottom or you never reach the top 287 00:22:39,624 --> 00:22:43,128 or you can always go further in. 288 00:22:43,128 --> 00:22:49,367 I think if you feel stuck at some point, 289 00:22:49,367 --> 00:22:53,338 that's not a sign that you've reached the end of something. 290 00:22:53,372 --> 00:22:55,741 It's just like something's wrong. 291 00:22:55,774 --> 00:23:01,246 It's like you're not digging deep enough or you need to focus on your mental 292 00:23:01,246 --> 00:23:04,483 or emotional health or some other aspect of your life that's preventing you 293 00:23:04,483 --> 00:23:06,017 from digging further in. 294 00:23:06,051 --> 00:23:11,723 But you'll never get to the bottom of any creative endeavor. 295 00:23:12,290 --> 00:23:15,560 That's what I love about it. 296 00:23:15,594 --> 00:23:20,499 What are your recent projects and the ones that you are 297 00:23:20,532 --> 00:23:23,034 turning towards to right now? 298 00:23:23,034 --> 00:23:28,640 Sure. Well, in 2023, I put out my most recent 299 00:23:28,673 --> 00:23:31,910 solo record, which was my first 300 00:23:31,943 --> 00:23:37,816 record that I had put out after revealing to my audience that I was diagnosed 301 00:23:37,849 --> 00:23:42,320 with the retinitis pigmentosa, which is a degenerative retinal disease 302 00:23:42,354 --> 00:23:47,259 that eventually leads to legal blindness. 303 00:23:47,292 --> 00:23:50,362 And that record kind of thematically dealt 304 00:23:50,395 --> 00:23:55,667 with a lot of the the emotional fallout 305 00:23:55,700 --> 00:24:00,038 from coming to grips with that diagnosis. 306 00:24:00,071 --> 00:24:05,343 And my fans and my audience were just wonderfully supportive, 307 00:24:05,343 --> 00:24:10,182 both financially and emotionally. 308 00:24:10,215 --> 00:24:16,188 They really showed up to support my honesty in that project, 309 00:24:16,221 --> 00:24:18,757 which was really humbling. 310 00:24:20,058 --> 00:24:24,529 After that project, I put out a third record with my Bluegrass band, 311 00:24:24,529 --> 00:24:29,768 which is called Barnstar!, which I share with four other guys. 312 00:24:30,101 --> 00:24:33,605 That was a project that we'd recorded before the pandemic and just hadn't found 313 00:24:33,605 --> 00:24:40,545 a way to take back out because we're five guys that sing around a central mic. 314 00:24:40,579 --> 00:24:45,817 So when there's a pandemic happening, it's a very unsafe 315 00:24:45,851 --> 00:24:47,752 situation, very unsafe set up. 316 00:24:47,786 --> 00:24:52,157 So we were just waiting till we could find a good time to do that. 317 00:24:52,190 --> 00:24:54,659 So that came out this year. 318 00:24:55,260 --> 00:25:01,366 And then as far as what's next, there's really a couple of things on the horizon. 319 00:25:01,366 --> 00:25:08,273 This past summer, I did a series of shows with a string quintet. 320 00:25:08,306 --> 00:25:14,012 I've worked with strings and string sections on records recently, but 321 00:25:14,045 --> 00:25:16,381 they've been playing supporting roles. 322 00:25:16,414 --> 00:25:23,889 I'll record the rock band basic tracks first, and then we'll add the strings on 323 00:25:23,889 --> 00:25:30,028 as an after, not as an afterthought, but after the fact is what I'm trying to say. 324 00:25:30,061 --> 00:25:33,398 But these shows with the string quintet, it was like, well, what happens if 325 00:25:33,431 --> 00:25:37,035 we take away the rock band and the strings just are the band? 326 00:25:37,068 --> 00:25:40,005 And it changes the context of everything. 327 00:25:40,005 --> 00:25:44,276 And it was deeply moving and the audiences loved it. 328 00:25:44,309 --> 00:25:48,880 And we recorded the final show, multitracked the final show. 329 00:25:48,914 --> 00:25:55,287 And I've always wanted to do an official proper live album, but 330 00:25:55,287 --> 00:25:58,223 I wanted it to be the right musical format. 331 00:25:58,256 --> 00:26:03,795 I didn't just want to rehash what was done on the records in front of an audience. 332 00:26:03,828 --> 00:26:06,698 I wanted to do something transformative. 333 00:26:06,731 --> 00:26:10,268 It took me 25 years, but I figured it out. 334 00:26:10,302 --> 00:26:11,970 We're going to release 335 00:26:12,003 --> 00:26:17,342 this live string quintet record. 336 00:26:17,342 --> 00:26:22,047 It's going to be the next project, hopefully in the first half of 2025. 337 00:26:22,047 --> 00:26:28,186 Then hopefully in the latter half of 2025 will be the 14th or 338 00:26:28,186 --> 00:26:32,757 the next studio album and the next batch 339 00:26:32,791 --> 00:26:37,629 of new original songs under my own name. 340 00:26:37,762 --> 00:26:44,469 Before we recorded, you mentioned that you're going to post a fundraiser? 341 00:26:44,502 --> 00:26:45,503 Yes. 342 00:26:45,503 --> 00:26:52,744 I'm going to be - The lot of the modern 343 00:26:52,777 --> 00:26:56,381 independent artist is that 344 00:26:56,982 --> 00:26:59,451 because of streaming, because of inflation, 345 00:26:59,484 --> 00:27:03,321 because of changes in music consumption, 346 00:27:03,989 --> 00:27:07,492 it's just not really possible to 347 00:27:07,525 --> 00:27:11,229 make enough money from the release of a 348 00:27:11,262 --> 00:27:15,233 particular record to fund the next record. 349 00:27:15,266 --> 00:27:21,640 It can be done, but that record has to be wildly successful. 350 00:27:21,740 --> 00:27:25,543 That's just never been my path. 351 00:27:25,577 --> 00:27:32,317 I have a dedicated, I don't want to call them a cult audience, but they're 352 00:27:32,350 --> 00:27:36,521 a small but mighty base of support. 353 00:27:36,988 --> 00:27:43,361 Every time I need to do a new project, I kind of have to go back to them and make the case 354 00:27:43,395 --> 00:27:45,997 for them supporting it in advance. 355 00:27:45,997 --> 00:27:50,101 I'll be launching a kickstarter 356 00:27:50,135 --> 00:27:54,005 in mid-October, I think, to support 357 00:27:54,039 --> 00:27:58,109 the recording and the release of not just the live album, but 358 00:27:58,143 --> 00:28:00,145 the next studio album as well. 359 00:28:00,178 --> 00:28:02,147 That'll be a little bit of a different thing for me. 360 00:28:02,147 --> 00:28:04,983 I've done Kickstarters and crowdfunding in the past, 361 00:28:05,016 --> 00:28:07,385 but it was for one particular project. 362 00:28:07,385 --> 00:28:11,823 This time, we're just doing both projects at the same time 363 00:28:11,856 --> 00:28:15,560 because they're linked in a way. 364 00:28:15,593 --> 00:28:20,398 Please share the link with us, so that we can share that with our audience. 365 00:28:20,432 --> 00:28:21,700 Absolutely. Thank you. 366 00:28:21,733 --> 00:28:23,201 Yeah, we'll do. 367 00:28:23,468 --> 00:28:27,539 I have a question about the fact that 368 00:28:28,173 --> 00:28:32,844 a few years ago, you were diagnosed 369 00:28:32,844 --> 00:28:36,147 with retinitis pigmentosa. 370 00:28:36,181 --> 00:28:42,420 I was wondering if it changed your way of writing your music 371 00:28:42,454 --> 00:28:48,727 and perceiving your music in what we call disability arts, basically. 372 00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:52,964 How do you see yourself in that world? 373 00:28:52,964 --> 00:28:54,999 Yeah, good question. 374 00:28:54,999 --> 00:28:59,904 I mean, it definitely - It changed it almost immediately 375 00:28:59,938 --> 00:29:03,041 in the sense that my disability or 376 00:29:03,074 --> 00:29:08,646 my diagnosis terrified me because 377 00:29:09,147 --> 00:29:14,352 I think I'd always associated songwriting and what you need to songwrite 378 00:29:14,385 --> 00:29:18,389 as it was a result of the powers of observation. 379 00:29:18,423 --> 00:29:24,229 And observation is, it's usually implies that you're looking at something. 380 00:29:24,262 --> 00:29:26,598 You're taking it all in visually. 381 00:29:26,631 --> 00:29:31,002 So I was like, if I can't see things or 382 00:29:31,035 --> 00:29:35,440 I can't see things with the visual acuity 383 00:29:35,473 --> 00:29:40,812 and the scale of detail that I'm used to, 384 00:29:41,346 --> 00:29:43,815 doesn't that mean that my songs 385 00:29:43,848 --> 00:29:48,386 and my art will be poor for that? 386 00:29:48,419 --> 00:29:51,289 And I grappled with that for quite some time, 387 00:29:52,090 --> 00:29:57,662 and where I am with all that is that, 388 00:29:57,662 --> 00:30:01,032 and I've learned this through the disability culture 389 00:30:01,032 --> 00:30:05,370 as I've started to interact with that 390 00:30:06,204 --> 00:30:12,777 subset of wonderful humans that there's other senses, 391 00:30:12,810 --> 00:30:15,880 and seeing is only one of them. 392 00:30:15,914 --> 00:30:21,419 It does enjoy a privileged place 393 00:30:21,452 --> 00:30:25,290 at the top of the pyramid as far as senses go. 394 00:30:25,290 --> 00:30:30,461 But it's not the only way to experience the world. 395 00:30:30,495 --> 00:30:33,932 I'm not legally blind yet, 396 00:30:33,932 --> 00:30:37,936 except at night or in dark backstage, 397 00:30:37,969 --> 00:30:42,040 I can't see much of anything. 398 00:30:42,073 --> 00:30:45,743 But for someone like 399 00:30:45,743 --> 00:30:48,146 Ray Charles or Stevie Wonder, 400 00:30:48,146 --> 00:30:50,148 do they have any less of a reach 401 00:30:50,148 --> 00:30:54,319 of an artistic life than sighted people? 402 00:30:54,319 --> 00:30:57,922 Of course not. They're geniuses. 403 00:30:58,823 --> 00:31:05,763 I've come to the understanding, maybe in the only way that you really can, 404 00:31:05,797 --> 00:31:12,503 which is to lose one of those senses or to take a hit to one of those senses, 405 00:31:12,537 --> 00:31:19,377 to realize that there's other ways of experiencing the world. 406 00:31:19,410 --> 00:31:26,150 Even in performance, sometimes you'll get people that feel like 407 00:31:26,150 --> 00:31:30,455 you should be looking right at the audience, making eye contact 408 00:31:30,488 --> 00:31:32,657 with the audience when you perform. 409 00:31:32,690 --> 00:31:37,061 I've really pushed back on that. 410 00:31:37,095 --> 00:31:42,300 I'm not getting any visual input back if I'm looking into the audience. 411 00:31:42,333 --> 00:31:44,736 All I see is a black void. 412 00:31:44,769 --> 00:31:47,639 It's terrifying at times. 413 00:31:47,672 --> 00:31:53,745 You can feel so alone, even in a room full of hundreds of people. 414 00:31:53,778 --> 00:32:00,818 I frequently will perform with my eyes closed. 415 00:32:00,852 --> 00:32:07,225 I find that I can envision things in my mind that way that help me, 416 00:32:07,225 --> 00:32:13,698 that help support the expression of what I'm trying to communicate in my music. 417 00:32:13,765 --> 00:32:18,336 That's just as valid as being on Broadway 418 00:32:18,369 --> 00:32:21,139 or being in a musical and 419 00:32:21,139 --> 00:32:26,144 hamming it up for the audience and looking them in the eye. 420 00:32:26,177 --> 00:32:32,984 As far as how I see myself in the disability culture, I'm still 421 00:32:32,984 --> 00:32:36,020 figuring that out, to be honest. 422 00:32:36,054 --> 00:32:40,658 My disability is an invisible one right now. 423 00:32:40,692 --> 00:32:46,631 Unless I'm using my white cane, which I will use mainly in dark environments 424 00:32:46,631 --> 00:32:51,602 or at night or in unfamiliar environments, I still don't take it out 425 00:32:51,636 --> 00:32:54,205 of the house all the time. 426 00:32:54,205 --> 00:32:58,142 If I'm not using that white cane, you can't tell. 427 00:32:58,176 --> 00:33:02,246 I just look like a dude with glasses. 428 00:33:03,314 --> 00:33:05,049 So... 429 00:33:05,049 --> 00:33:10,254 But that puts me in this interesting position because I can "pass" 430 00:33:10,254 --> 00:33:14,625 for "normal." 431 00:33:15,093 --> 00:33:18,363 These are not words that we like to use, obviously, 432 00:33:18,396 --> 00:33:20,965 but I use them to make a point. 433 00:33:20,965 --> 00:33:24,335 I'm also a white male, so people treat me 434 00:33:24,335 --> 00:33:28,706 like the thing that everything else 435 00:33:28,706 --> 00:33:31,275 in society is judged against. 436 00:33:31,275 --> 00:33:34,545 I don't say that to agree with it. 437 00:33:34,545 --> 00:33:39,117 I just say that is like the white male patriarchy is 438 00:33:39,117 --> 00:33:44,155 definitely a thing, and I benefit from that because of the way that I was... 439 00:33:44,188 --> 00:33:47,959 I was just born this way. 440 00:33:48,926 --> 00:33:52,697 I'm treated that way, but I don't have 441 00:33:52,697 --> 00:33:58,870 all of the same capabilities that a person, 442 00:33:58,903 --> 00:34:01,939 a full-sided white middle-aged male has. 443 00:34:01,973 --> 00:34:09,547 I have this deep identification with disability culture and with people that 444 00:34:09,580 --> 00:34:15,553 share disabilities of any kind, and yet I'm treated as "normal." 445 00:34:15,586 --> 00:34:19,157 And so this puts me in the space where I feel 446 00:34:19,157 --> 00:34:24,796 oftentimes obligated to step up 447 00:34:24,829 --> 00:34:30,001 in the name of folks that may not be listened to, 448 00:34:30,034 --> 00:34:34,605 that might struggle with similar things that I struggle with just 449 00:34:34,639 --> 00:34:37,809 to different degrees or they can't hide it. 450 00:34:38,142 --> 00:34:42,380 In in a way that someday I won't be able to hide it. 451 00:34:42,413 --> 00:34:46,017 I'll frequently be backstage at a venue 452 00:34:46,050 --> 00:34:51,389 and say, I can't see these stairs here. 453 00:34:51,422 --> 00:34:56,828 I'm afraid I'm going to fall down these Can we put some brightly-colored tape 454 00:34:56,828 --> 00:35:00,364 on the leading edge of each stair? 455 00:35:00,364 --> 00:35:02,600 Or can we get a light in here? 456 00:35:03,501 --> 00:35:07,772 Because of the way that I look, I don't think anyone has ever 457 00:35:07,805 --> 00:35:10,575 said anything other than, Oh, my gosh, of course, yes, we'll get right on that. 458 00:35:10,608 --> 00:35:13,244 I can see why that would be helpful. 459 00:35:13,277 --> 00:35:14,412 That'll help everybody. 460 00:35:14,445 --> 00:35:16,047 Yes, right away. 461 00:35:16,047 --> 00:35:20,751 I have friends in the disability culture, in the disability community 462 00:35:20,785 --> 00:35:25,656 who are female, people of color, 463 00:35:26,624 --> 00:35:28,626 and they're like, Yeah, that's not 464 00:35:28,626 --> 00:35:33,364 my experience for obvious reasons 465 00:35:33,397 --> 00:35:36,767 of sexism and misogyny and racism. 466 00:35:36,767 --> 00:35:43,441 So because of the way that I look and what I'm living with, I feel like, 467 00:35:43,474 --> 00:35:48,312 at least at this point, one of the ways that I can help 468 00:35:48,346 --> 00:35:53,684 is to just not be afraid to talk about it and not be afraid 469 00:35:53,718 --> 00:36:00,358 to point out things that would help me because I know that they're going to help 470 00:36:00,391 --> 00:36:04,228 other people that come after me, and those people may not be 471 00:36:04,228 --> 00:36:09,033 listened to in the way that I am. 472 00:36:09,066 --> 00:36:15,740 I'm trying to be an ally for a community that I'm a part of, almost, 473 00:36:15,773 --> 00:36:20,745 in a way, an advocate and an ally. 474 00:36:21,746 --> 00:36:28,853 Thus far, people seem to be, as I said, really open to hearing things from me. 475 00:36:29,186 --> 00:36:35,760 I try and do it in a really respectful and congenial way. 476 00:36:35,793 --> 00:36:38,362 I don't want to shame anybody for not 477 00:36:38,362 --> 00:36:43,734 being able to, 100% of the time, 478 00:36:43,768 --> 00:36:50,741 expand their level of consciousness to the entire spectrum of human experience. 479 00:36:50,775 --> 00:36:53,778 I think we're all human. 480 00:36:53,811 --> 00:36:58,749 We all forget and have blinders 481 00:36:58,749 --> 00:37:01,652 on at some points in our lives. 482 00:37:01,686 --> 00:37:07,725 I try and be nice about it, but I do have 483 00:37:07,758 --> 00:37:10,628 to remember to speak up because I'm not 484 00:37:10,661 --> 00:37:13,464 really just speaking up for myself. 485 00:37:13,664 --> 00:37:19,103 Sometimes when we speak with people who don't know anything about disability, 486 00:37:19,136 --> 00:37:24,675 they don't realize that one thing that will help us as disabled artists 487 00:37:24,709 --> 00:37:29,947 will also help them as non-disabled for things that they do every day, 488 00:37:29,981 --> 00:37:36,654 things like voiceover or things that are very simple 489 00:37:36,687 --> 00:37:41,959 that are now today in our everyday life and started with the conversation about, 490 00:37:41,993 --> 00:37:44,962 How can I help this person with disability? 491 00:37:44,962 --> 00:37:47,598 We forget a little bit. 492 00:37:47,598 --> 00:37:52,303 If maybe these colorful 493 00:37:52,303 --> 00:37:55,506 bands that you put on the stairs will help more than someone 494 00:37:55,506 --> 00:38:02,613 who has a vision or sighted issues, but 495 00:38:02,647 --> 00:38:04,849 also anybody, because it's convenient to 496 00:38:04,882 --> 00:38:07,918 have a really clear mark on these steps. 497 00:38:07,952 --> 00:38:13,624 Yeah, it could just help someone who's old and can't see as well as they used to. 498 00:38:13,658 --> 00:38:17,495 They may not really qualify as having a visual disability. 499 00:38:17,528 --> 00:38:23,434 But yeah, I think that's been one of the most amazing parts of 500 00:38:23,434 --> 00:38:28,839 getting to familiarize myself with disability culture is the degree 501 00:38:28,839 --> 00:38:36,847 of problem solving and the degree of optimism that is required. 502 00:38:37,081 --> 00:38:40,384 I find that truly inspiring. 503 00:38:41,285 --> 00:38:45,222 A lot of those things, like you say, they've helped us. 504 00:38:45,256 --> 00:38:51,095 I don't know if you've read a book by this guy, Andrew Leland. 505 00:38:51,128 --> 00:38:54,432 It came out last year, The Country of the Blind. 506 00:38:54,465 --> 00:38:56,567 Fascinating book. 507 00:38:56,600 --> 00:39:00,705 I loved it so much that I gave it to literally everybody that I loved for 508 00:39:00,705 --> 00:39:06,977 Christmas, and I found a way to reach out to him, and Andrew and I are buddies now. 509 00:39:07,044 --> 00:39:10,381 But he goes through a lot of these technological improvements 510 00:39:10,414 --> 00:39:12,683 that we take for granted. 511 00:39:12,683 --> 00:39:18,155 LPs, records, vinyl records were a way to 512 00:39:18,189 --> 00:39:22,960 push the boundary for getting audiobooks 513 00:39:22,993 --> 00:39:28,265 for blind people onto fewer disks. 514 00:39:28,299 --> 00:39:33,237 The disks used to only be able to hold whatever 10 minutes aside or whatever. 515 00:39:33,270 --> 00:39:38,275 To read a whole book, you might have dozens and dozens of disks 516 00:39:38,309 --> 00:39:40,044 that you had to work your way through. 517 00:39:40,077 --> 00:39:44,749 So pushing the boundaries of that recording disk technology 518 00:39:44,782 --> 00:39:48,119 gave us long player records. 519 00:39:48,119 --> 00:39:52,656 I listen to those every day and I make them myself. 520 00:39:52,690 --> 00:39:57,027 That kind of stuff I really love learning about. 521 00:39:57,061 --> 00:40:02,099 Just the problem solving, optimistic outlook in general, I think is 522 00:40:02,133 --> 00:40:07,805 just something that I really want to be adopting at all times if I can help it. 523 00:40:07,805 --> 00:40:09,440 That's great. 524 00:40:09,473 --> 00:40:16,347 I have one last question for you, and it's about people who might have inspired you 525 00:40:16,347 --> 00:40:18,916 or motivated you in your career. 526 00:40:18,949 --> 00:40:23,220 Maybe you have one or two people you're really thinking of in terms of, 527 00:40:23,220 --> 00:40:28,526 this person really put me into the path and showed me some things 528 00:40:28,559 --> 00:40:30,327 that I don't forget today. 529 00:40:30,327 --> 00:40:34,064 If you had a few people to name, who would it be and why? 530 00:40:34,098 --> 00:40:37,101 I know exactly who I would name. 531 00:40:37,134 --> 00:40:44,208 All the formative people in my life have been teachers, 532 00:40:44,208 --> 00:40:47,144 and I don't mean that figuratively. 533 00:40:47,144 --> 00:40:49,847 I mean literally teachers. 534 00:40:50,214 --> 00:40:57,054 I'm thinking of my middle school art teacher who not only 535 00:40:57,087 --> 00:41:01,425 looked at my drawings and said, You're a really great artist, and 536 00:41:01,425 --> 00:41:04,228 called me an artist for the first time. 537 00:41:04,261 --> 00:41:07,598 My parents always love what I drew, but they love everything I do. 538 00:41:07,631 --> 00:41:09,500 I didn't know what. 539 00:41:09,533 --> 00:41:12,002 I didn't know what that really meant. 540 00:41:12,002 --> 00:41:18,976 To have someone outside of the house recognize the value of what you do 541 00:41:19,009 --> 00:41:25,349 and call you an artist, that made a really big impression on me. 542 00:41:25,382 --> 00:41:29,987 That was the same teacher that encouraged me to try out for the musicals. 543 00:41:29,987 --> 00:41:34,725 He also ran all the musicals at the junior high and the high school. 544 00:41:34,725 --> 00:41:40,097 I did musicals with him all up from junior high through high school, 545 00:41:40,130 --> 00:41:44,301 so it would have been six years with him. 546 00:41:44,935 --> 00:41:47,404 Also in that time, I had a really influential high school 547 00:41:47,438 --> 00:41:52,409 biology teacher who, like my art teacher called me 548 00:41:52,443 --> 00:41:58,249 an artist, my my biology teacher treated me like an actual biologist 549 00:41:58,249 --> 00:42:03,420 and encouraged me to conduct 550 00:42:03,721 --> 00:42:07,591 myself like the classic naturalists 551 00:42:07,625 --> 00:42:13,097 had done over the years to get outside and make observations and to share those 552 00:42:13,130 --> 00:42:18,002 observations with others and try and use that to support scientific 553 00:42:18,035 --> 00:42:20,271 research and conservation efforts. 554 00:42:20,304 --> 00:42:24,575 And that biology teacher also was a really big fan the Grateful Dead. 555 00:42:24,608 --> 00:42:29,613 It took me to see the Grateful Dead a couple of times and shared a bunch of 556 00:42:29,647 --> 00:42:33,117 Grateful Dead concert bootlegs with me. 557 00:42:33,684 --> 00:42:39,089 He really opened up my entire world to 558 00:42:39,657 --> 00:42:43,861 the vast swath of Americans roots music 559 00:42:43,894 --> 00:42:46,297 through the Grateful Dead. 560 00:42:47,598 --> 00:42:53,170 I had teachers in college that were the same way, 561 00:42:53,203 --> 00:42:57,274 that in both the arts and in science. 562 00:42:57,308 --> 00:43:03,347 But those two early high school teachers were really important to me, and they 563 00:43:03,347 --> 00:43:06,383 basically set me off on the twin paths 564 00:43:06,417 --> 00:43:12,022 that I've merged in my life as an adult. 565 00:43:12,056 --> 00:43:15,559 It's something that a lot of people share. 566 00:43:15,592 --> 00:43:18,028 If you have a great teacher at a 567 00:43:18,028 --> 00:43:23,801 very early age who gives you an overview 568 00:43:23,834 --> 00:43:30,741 of what it is to be an artist, then you are set to become an artist later 569 00:43:30,774 --> 00:43:33,544 if you're really taking this path. 570 00:43:33,577 --> 00:43:34,845 Yeah, I agree. 571 00:43:34,878 --> 00:43:38,148 I think even more generally than that, it's just there are teachers 572 00:43:38,148 --> 00:43:43,387 that are better at "seeing kids" 573 00:43:43,387 --> 00:43:49,226 and just dignifying their experience. 574 00:43:49,259 --> 00:43:56,033 So whether they're writers or actors or artists or whether they 575 00:43:56,066 --> 00:44:00,204 love math or whatever it is, 576 00:44:00,237 --> 00:44:03,173 these teachers that really dignify kids 577 00:44:03,207 --> 00:44:09,880 and say, You are this already, and you could continue to do this and take it 578 00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:15,986 and evolve it in ways in your life that you can't even really envision yet. 579 00:44:16,020 --> 00:44:22,559 Those teachers, that is God's work right there. 580 00:44:22,593 --> 00:44:29,066 Both my My parents were teachers, so I come from a background 581 00:44:29,099 --> 00:44:30,634 that really values education. 582 00:44:30,668 --> 00:44:33,470 But this is probably a different podcast. 583 00:44:33,504 --> 00:44:40,878 But I feel like the economic ladder 584 00:44:40,911 --> 00:44:45,249 has been up-ended. 585 00:44:45,249 --> 00:44:49,286 I don't know why CEOs make so much money, personally. 586 00:44:49,286 --> 00:44:56,427 I feel like teachers, I can't think of another role in society that 587 00:44:57,227 --> 00:45:03,167 is more important and should be valued economically as such. 588 00:45:03,167 --> 00:45:06,603 But again, different podcast. 589 00:45:06,637 --> 00:45:10,607 They've been invaluable to me as a person and as an artist. 590 00:45:10,607 --> 00:45:14,745 I think a lot of us have, hopefully, we're lucky enough 591 00:45:14,778 --> 00:45:16,780 to have people like that in our lives. 592 00:45:17,381 --> 00:45:18,982 I agree. 593 00:45:19,683 --> 00:45:22,319 Teachers are really, really important. 594 00:45:22,352 --> 00:45:27,024 Plus, we are learning and teaching some people around us 595 00:45:27,057 --> 00:45:31,595 without sometimes realizing it, but we are learning from each other. 596 00:45:31,628 --> 00:45:38,368 If we don't have a teacher who shows us the value of teaching and learning, 597 00:45:38,368 --> 00:45:43,440 then it's too bad because we are really losing this opportunity 598 00:45:43,474 --> 00:45:46,143 of exchanging, which is beautiful. 599 00:45:46,176 --> 00:45:47,277 Exactly. 600 00:45:47,311 --> 00:45:50,581 Again, that's evolution, right? 601 00:45:50,614 --> 00:45:54,985 You share how you do something or what's possible with someone else, 602 00:45:54,985 --> 00:46:00,657 and they may not do it in quite the same way, or they may see like, Oh, well, 603 00:46:00,691 --> 00:46:05,129 if you can do this, then you can also do this, and then they take it further. 604 00:46:05,129 --> 00:46:09,466 That is how things literally evolve. 605 00:46:11,101 --> 00:46:16,573 I feel like that's where me being honest with my audience about my disability 606 00:46:16,607 --> 00:46:18,842 was really important. 607 00:46:19,309 --> 00:46:23,347 I didn't want to put a lot of effort 608 00:46:23,347 --> 00:46:28,485 into keeping that part of me hidden. 609 00:46:28,485 --> 00:46:35,125 I wasn't embarrassed about it in any way, but it just would have required 610 00:46:35,125 --> 00:46:38,228 so much work to not talk about it. 611 00:46:38,262 --> 00:46:44,101 And by being honest about it, 612 00:46:44,101 --> 00:46:47,538 there's absolutely going to be some kid somewhere 613 00:46:47,571 --> 00:46:52,409 someday that might come across my music 614 00:46:52,442 --> 00:46:57,848 or my story and says, Well, he did it. Maybe I can do it. 615 00:46:57,848 --> 00:47:01,251 I know that because I came across other people's stories 616 00:47:01,285 --> 00:47:06,390 and they inspired me in the same way. 617 00:47:07,357 --> 00:47:09,827 Gosh, I hope I live to 618 00:47:09,827 --> 00:47:14,264 see that and see how that happens 619 00:47:14,264 --> 00:47:15,866 and see how that evolves. 620 00:47:15,899 --> 00:47:20,370 That would be just the greatest gift to pass it on. 621 00:47:21,171 --> 00:47:25,909 Okay, so thank you so much for sharing your story with us today. 622 00:47:26,376 --> 00:47:32,416 I wish you all the greatest success in your next project. 623 00:47:32,449 --> 00:47:33,250 Thank you. 624 00:47:33,283 --> 00:47:40,257 Yeah, share with us some of the links that you want to share I'm sure 625 00:47:40,290 --> 00:47:44,928 we will be more than happy to just share that with the audience. 626 00:47:44,962 --> 00:47:47,497 Thank you so much, Diane. We'll do. 627 00:47:47,531 --> 00:47:49,333 Okay. Have a great day. 628 00:47:49,399 --> 00:47:49,833 You too..