1 00:00:01,000 --> 00:00:06,139 ♪ Opening theme music ♪ 2 00:00:13,613 --> 00:00:17,717 Hello and welcome to this episode of ArtsAbly in Conversation. 3 00:00:17,751 --> 00:00:19,652 My name is Diane Kolin. 4 00:00:19,652 --> 00:00:25,792 This series presents artists, academics, and project leaders who dedicate their time 5 00:00:25,825 --> 00:00:31,331 and energy to a better accessibility for people with disabilities in the arts. 6 00:00:31,364 --> 00:00:36,603 You can find more of these conversations on our website, artsably.com,. 7 00:00:36,603 --> 00:00:42,008 which is spelled A-R-T-S-A-B-L-Y dot com. 8 00:00:43,009 --> 00:00:48,148 ♪ Theme music ♪ 9 00:00:55,522 --> 00:01:00,126 Today, ArtsAbly is in conversation with Tamar Bresge, an artist, 10 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:05,131 writer, and educator from Toronto, currently in the Creative Writing Program 11 00:01:05,131 --> 00:01:08,134 at California Institute of the Arts. 12 00:01:08,168 --> 00:01:12,272 You can find the resources mentioned by Tamar Bresge during this episode 13 00:01:12,272 --> 00:01:17,110 on ArtsAbly's website in the blog section. 14 00:01:17,510 --> 00:01:18,578 Hi. 15 00:01:18,611 --> 00:01:21,047 My name is Tamar Bresge. 16 00:01:21,081 --> 00:01:22,782 I am 28. 17 00:01:22,816 --> 00:01:28,488 I am born and raised in Toronto, Ontario, and I use she/her pronouns. 18 00:01:28,988 --> 00:01:34,027 I am an artist, writer, and educator. 19 00:01:34,294 --> 00:01:38,631 My practice is rooted in exploring the intersection of text, 20 00:01:38,665 --> 00:01:42,268 literature, language, and image. 21 00:01:42,836 --> 00:01:47,407 And in addition to that, and in complement to it, I am 22 00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:49,909 hearing impaired and vision impaired. 23 00:01:49,943 --> 00:01:54,481 I have something called Usher's syndrome, which is a form of retinitis pigmentosa. 24 00:01:54,514 --> 00:01:58,284 It causes degenerative hearing and vision loss. 25 00:01:58,318 --> 00:02:03,123 And I think this has informed my spirit 26 00:02:03,123 --> 00:02:06,993 to be very enthusiastic and passionate about 27 00:02:07,026 --> 00:02:09,429 taking in as much of the world as I can. 28 00:02:09,462 --> 00:02:11,531 So I'm very curious by nature. 29 00:02:11,531 --> 00:02:16,202 I like to say when I'm teaching to my students and also to myself that 30 00:02:16,202 --> 00:02:20,073 I think the best way to approach the world is not by looking for answers, but 31 00:02:20,073 --> 00:02:22,976 by always looking to ask better questions. 32 00:02:22,976 --> 00:02:28,982 So given my very playful and curious nature, I, of course, had to do a playful 33 00:02:29,015 --> 00:02:31,885 and curious project for this program. 34 00:02:31,918 --> 00:02:37,957 So for my Capstone, I undertook a very big poetry endeavor, 35 00:02:37,991 --> 00:02:41,094 which is a blackout poetry. 36 00:02:41,094 --> 00:02:45,298 It's a form of poetry where you erase from a given text 37 00:02:45,298 --> 00:02:48,635 to create something new out of something existing. 38 00:02:48,668 --> 00:02:53,973 So I decided to take the text "A Room with a View," which is a novel by E. M. Forster. 39 00:02:53,973 --> 00:02:58,211 It's one of my favorite novels, and it's also just chockablock 40 00:02:58,211 --> 00:03:03,917 full of really rich beautiful language about looking, seeing, art, and the sublime. 41 00:03:03,950 --> 00:03:08,988 So I left EM Forster's name, and then also carved my own in a gesture 42 00:03:09,022 --> 00:03:13,793 of co-authorship as I created this new 43 00:03:13,826 --> 00:03:16,596 big project of poetry out of his novel. 44 00:03:16,629 --> 00:03:22,936 So I take the existing text and I carve out a new piece. 45 00:03:23,169 --> 00:03:28,207 So I like to think of each page existing as its own individual piece, but also 46 00:03:28,207 --> 00:03:32,612 the whole collection having a logical form and flow, 47 00:03:32,612 --> 00:03:36,549 but not necessarily needing to be read from start to finish. 48 00:03:36,583 --> 00:03:39,586 I think each page is something you can happen upon. 49 00:03:39,619 --> 00:03:45,391 And then I'm really curious about the page of text as a canvas in itself, 50 00:03:45,425 --> 00:03:49,395 that there's such a sonic quality to the silence 51 00:03:49,395 --> 00:03:51,164 of the negative space of the page. 52 00:03:51,197 --> 00:03:56,102 There's a very visual aspect to the sporadic nature, the freckling 53 00:03:56,135 --> 00:03:59,405 of words and punctuation that is determined to be left 54 00:03:59,439 --> 00:04:01,841 across the page really intentionally. 55 00:04:01,874 --> 00:04:06,145 So this final page reads, I think I interfere. 56 00:04:06,179 --> 00:04:07,747 Never forgive me. 57 00:04:07,780 --> 00:04:10,083 I wish to be a nuisance. 58 00:04:10,116 --> 00:04:12,685 Which is quite true. 59 00:04:12,719 --> 00:04:19,325 So I have finished with this text at this time, and I'm looking forward to trying 60 00:04:19,359 --> 00:04:21,794 to shop it around for a publication. 61 00:04:21,828 --> 00:04:27,200 You can find more about me, Tamar Bresge, at my website, which is tamarbresge.com. 62 00:04:28,334 --> 00:04:32,105 Welcome to this new episode of ArtsAbly in Conversation. 63 00:04:32,138 --> 00:04:38,144 Today, I am with Tamar Bresge, who is a multi-talented artist and writer 64 00:04:38,177 --> 00:04:42,015 from Toronto, and she's currently in the Creative Writing Program 65 00:04:42,048 --> 00:04:45,385 at California Institute of the Arts. 66 00:04:45,418 --> 00:04:47,120 Welcome, Tamar. 67 00:04:47,153 --> 00:04:48,955 Thank you so much for having me. 68 00:04:48,955 --> 00:04:51,324 I'm so excited to be here. 69 00:04:51,357 --> 00:04:52,992 I am excited, too. 70 00:04:52,992 --> 00:04:58,865 I met Tamar thanks to an organization called AccessNow. 71 00:04:58,898 --> 00:05:05,071 They are in Toronto, and they defend the digital rights of people. 72 00:05:05,104 --> 00:05:10,209 They are famous for their work in assessing places and creating 73 00:05:10,243 --> 00:05:14,514 a map with this information collected during these assessments. 74 00:05:14,514 --> 00:05:16,716 They work for a few years now. 75 00:05:16,749 --> 00:05:22,955 Recently, they started a new program for young people with disabilities 76 00:05:22,989 --> 00:05:26,492 to be mentored by peers of professionals 77 00:05:26,492 --> 00:05:30,129 who have already faced some of 78 00:05:30,163 --> 00:05:35,401 the situations that the participants of the program might face later. 79 00:05:35,435 --> 00:05:39,338 The aim was really to accompany them and talk with them 80 00:05:39,372 --> 00:05:42,642 during a six weeks program. 81 00:05:42,675 --> 00:05:44,243 I was paired with Tamar. 82 00:05:44,277 --> 00:05:45,878 I was her mentor. 83 00:05:45,912 --> 00:05:49,949 Not only did Tamar a fantastic job during the program, but I also 84 00:05:49,982 --> 00:05:55,988 discovered her work as an artist and her multiple activities in the arts, 85 00:05:56,022 --> 00:05:59,025 so I invited her to talk about it. 86 00:05:59,192 --> 00:06:01,394 Very exciting. Yes. 87 00:06:01,627 --> 00:06:03,763 So my name is Tamar Bresge. 88 00:06:03,796 --> 00:06:06,466 I use she series pronouns, and 89 00:06:06,466 --> 00:06:09,302 I am an artist, writer, and educator. 90 00:06:09,335 --> 00:06:12,605 I hold a Master's in Studio Art 91 00:06:12,638 --> 00:06:16,876 from the School of Museum of Fine Arts at Tufts University in Boston. 92 00:06:16,876 --> 00:06:20,313 After finishing that master's, I taught at Tufts University 93 00:06:20,346 --> 00:06:24,117 in the Experimental College for a bit, which was really exciting. 94 00:06:24,117 --> 00:06:28,254 And before that, I went I went to OCAD University in Toronto. 95 00:06:28,287 --> 00:06:32,225 I majored in sculpture installation, and I'm in creative writing. 96 00:06:32,258 --> 00:06:35,695 And so here I am now doing another Master's in creative writing 97 00:06:35,695 --> 00:06:37,997 at California Institute of the Arts. 98 00:06:37,997 --> 00:06:43,002 So I'm speaking from my apartment in Southern California, where it's 99 00:06:43,035 --> 00:06:45,671 like 40 degrees here every day. 100 00:06:45,705 --> 00:06:49,976 Definitely the most hand I've ever been in my life, I guess. 101 00:06:50,009 --> 00:06:52,178 Is the air conditioning working well? 102 00:06:52,178 --> 00:06:53,579 Yes. Thank you for asking. 103 00:06:53,579 --> 00:06:58,818 My air conditioning wasn't working for almost two weeks in this heat wave. 104 00:06:58,818 --> 00:07:05,158 So I went a little heat-fever delusional, but I'm much better now. 105 00:07:05,158 --> 00:07:07,126 Thank you for asking. 106 00:07:07,593 --> 00:07:12,665 Okay. So I was wondering what brought you to the arts? 107 00:07:12,698 --> 00:07:17,870 Did you have a family that was particularly attracted to the arts world, 108 00:07:17,870 --> 00:07:20,206 or did you one day discover that yourself and say, 109 00:07:20,239 --> 00:07:22,642 That's what I want to do when I grow up? 110 00:07:22,642 --> 00:07:28,080 Yeah, I love this question because I don't have a super simple answer for it. 111 00:07:28,114 --> 00:07:32,685 And I think this is something that anybody who knows me will probably know 112 00:07:32,685 --> 00:07:37,523 I can't ever give a one simple directive answer for anything. 113 00:07:37,523 --> 00:07:42,361 But I think one of the most important pieces in my interest in the arts 114 00:07:42,395 --> 00:07:47,033 is my grandmother, my father's mother, who passed away last year. 115 00:07:47,066 --> 00:07:52,805 She was just so passionate about culture 116 00:07:52,839 --> 00:07:56,576 and exchanging culture and reading, 117 00:07:56,576 --> 00:07:58,277 going to museums, going to plays. 118 00:07:58,311 --> 00:08:03,049 She would take me to all of these experiences from a really young age. 119 00:08:03,082 --> 00:08:07,920 And at the same time, I was really lucky to travel as a child. 120 00:08:07,954 --> 00:08:10,289 And my mom likes art. 121 00:08:10,323 --> 00:08:11,791 My dad likes art. 122 00:08:11,824 --> 00:08:16,262 Neither of them work necessarily in the arts. 123 00:08:16,295 --> 00:08:20,733 But we would go to the museums that you're supposed to go to on our trips 124 00:08:20,766 --> 00:08:24,370 and enjoy those experiences. 125 00:08:24,403 --> 00:08:30,042 And I don't even think I understood as a child how 126 00:08:30,209 --> 00:08:35,181 lucky I was to be so immersed in art and culture, 127 00:08:35,214 --> 00:08:39,619 which I'm deeply appreciative for now and also a little envious of my younger self 128 00:08:39,619 --> 00:08:42,822 that she maybe could have paid a little bit more attention, 129 00:08:42,822 --> 00:08:45,858 but I always really enjoyed the arts from that perspective. 130 00:08:45,858 --> 00:08:50,429 I was really into film and writing in high school. 131 00:08:50,429 --> 00:08:55,968 I had really formative experiences in one of my high school writing classes, 132 00:08:55,968 --> 00:09:00,840 and I was really timid to be an artist. 133 00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:04,010 I didn't really think that it was a title that I deserved 134 00:09:04,010 --> 00:09:08,581 because I wasn't good at technically drawing the way that 135 00:09:08,581 --> 00:09:12,618 my second grade art teacher pointed to my best friend and was like, 136 00:09:12,618 --> 00:09:16,889 you can draw a representation of a real object, 137 00:09:16,889 --> 00:09:20,626 so you're a good artist, whereas I could not draw 138 00:09:20,660 --> 00:09:21,961 a representation of something. 139 00:09:21,994 --> 00:09:24,630 So I inherently was not a good artist. 140 00:09:24,664 --> 00:09:31,837 It took a long time for me to let myself, I think, be brave to just really try 141 00:09:31,837 --> 00:09:37,176 and make art and not worry as much about the labels, about what I was. 142 00:09:37,209 --> 00:09:43,382 And yeah, I actually went to university for something completely different for one year, 143 00:09:43,382 --> 00:09:47,320 wasn't enjoying it, took a year off to work, applied to art school. 144 00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:49,855 And I've been an artist ever since. 145 00:09:49,855 --> 00:09:51,958 I say artist in quotation marks because 146 00:09:51,958 --> 00:09:56,996 even now I find it's a strange word. 147 00:09:56,996 --> 00:10:03,169 Maybe it comes with a lot of baggage, a lot of presumptions 148 00:10:03,202 --> 00:10:05,037 about what that means to be an artist. 149 00:10:05,071 --> 00:10:07,873 But I definitely think I'm an artist. 150 00:10:07,907 --> 00:10:09,008 Long answer. 151 00:10:09,008 --> 00:10:11,010 You are. 152 00:10:11,010 --> 00:10:13,012 [Laughs.] 153 00:10:13,713 --> 00:10:15,214 Yeah... so... 154 00:10:15,214 --> 00:10:17,350 Did you have an aha moment? 155 00:10:17,383 --> 00:10:21,454 This aha moment that says, Okay, I'm going to stop what I was doing 156 00:10:21,487 --> 00:10:27,426 in whatever I was doing before and go to an arts university. 157 00:10:27,426 --> 00:10:30,830 Yeah. Again, it's not the one moment. 158 00:10:30,863 --> 00:10:37,536 I had an aha stretch of time where I actually think I had to be... 159 00:10:37,570 --> 00:10:41,340 And I don't want to romanticize this tortured artist narrative 160 00:10:41,374 --> 00:10:42,408 because I really don't like it. 161 00:10:42,441 --> 00:10:46,278 But I got so unhappy with what I was doing. 162 00:10:46,278 --> 00:10:52,118 And I feel like I got to a point where I was like, there's one thing 163 00:10:52,118 --> 00:10:55,388 that I think will feed my soul. 164 00:10:55,421 --> 00:10:57,790 There's one thing that brings me light and brings me joy 165 00:10:57,790 --> 00:11:00,926 and makes me really happy to be alive. 166 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:04,263 And why am I not doing it? 167 00:11:04,296 --> 00:11:06,832 So, yeah, it was... 168 00:11:06,866 --> 00:11:11,337 I guess it became pretty clear that at a pretty tough time, there was really just 169 00:11:11,337 --> 00:11:15,241 one thing that was making me so happy. 170 00:11:15,274 --> 00:11:18,711 And it was looking at art, making art, engaging with the arts. 171 00:11:18,744 --> 00:11:22,982 At that time, it was photography that I was really, really curious about because 172 00:11:22,982 --> 00:11:27,453 as I didn't say in my introduction, I I have a blinding eye disease. 173 00:11:27,486 --> 00:11:34,093 So I have, for listeners who are familiar or not, I have retinitis pigmentosa, 174 00:11:34,093 --> 00:11:37,430 and I have a very specific form of it, which is Usher's syndrome. 175 00:11:37,463 --> 00:11:40,633 So together, this means that I have degenerative 176 00:11:40,666 --> 00:11:42,701 vision loss and hearing loss. 177 00:11:42,735 --> 00:11:45,538 So I have tunnel vision, which means that my visual field 178 00:11:45,538 --> 00:11:47,339 just gets narrower and narrower. 179 00:11:47,373 --> 00:11:50,276 You can imagine looking through binoculars or 180 00:11:50,276 --> 00:11:52,711 even as extreme as looking through straws. 181 00:11:52,711 --> 00:11:54,647 If you hold straws up to your eyes and just 182 00:11:54,680 --> 00:11:56,782 try and see through a very narrow field. 183 00:11:56,816 --> 00:12:00,219 This also means I have very, very, very little night vision, which is one 184 00:12:00,219 --> 00:12:04,256 of the first ways I knew something was wrong with my vision was 185 00:12:04,256 --> 00:12:06,559 going up the steps in the movie theater. 186 00:12:06,592 --> 00:12:10,196 If we came five minutes late to the movie, it was very difficult for me as a kid. 187 00:12:10,196 --> 00:12:15,000 And then I also wear hearing aids for my low hearing. 188 00:12:15,134 --> 00:12:19,672 So photography, I think allowing myself to really work 189 00:12:19,705 --> 00:12:24,009 in photography and embrace visual art, I do think part of why I was so hesitant 190 00:12:24,043 --> 00:12:28,781 and afraid to work in it is that when I was 15 and I was diagnosed 191 00:12:28,814 --> 00:12:32,785 with this disease, the doctor, the first thing she said to me is, 192 00:12:32,818 --> 00:12:34,320 Plan for your future. 193 00:12:34,353 --> 00:12:39,759 Plan a career that you won't be able to see, basically. 194 00:12:40,326 --> 00:12:42,728 I mean, what was I supposed to do with that? 195 00:12:42,761 --> 00:12:47,233 It made me feel like immediately something that I love so much was 196 00:12:47,233 --> 00:12:52,705 not allowed and off limits and taboo and wrong. 197 00:12:52,738 --> 00:12:56,809 There was a concrete wall, six feet wide between me and 198 00:12:56,842 --> 00:12:59,278 the possibility of working in the arts. 199 00:12:59,278 --> 00:13:04,116 It took a lot of work for me to, I think, just overcome, and I still work on it, 200 00:13:04,150 --> 00:13:08,020 to overcome that mental blockade of what I think I can and can't do 201 00:13:08,020 --> 00:13:11,056 because of words like blindness and because of words like artists. 202 00:13:11,056 --> 00:13:14,760 Those things don't often go together in the same sentence. 203 00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:18,731 But that's what I find so exciting now is smushing those two things together 204 00:13:18,764 --> 00:13:21,200 and seeing what can happen. 205 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:25,838 Photography is how I got my start because I really like the idea of 206 00:13:25,838 --> 00:13:30,676 trying to capture an entire lifetime of feeling 207 00:13:30,709 --> 00:13:33,812 in one single image, one single moment. 208 00:13:33,846 --> 00:13:38,984 And that was the original assignment for me as an artist. 209 00:13:39,018 --> 00:13:45,090 Yeah, that was photography, but then you went through so many different streams. 210 00:13:45,124 --> 00:13:48,694 I would say you were a poet 211 00:13:48,727 --> 00:13:53,799 who works with words and put that 212 00:13:53,832 --> 00:13:57,970 in a visual and audio and everything. 213 00:13:58,003 --> 00:13:59,939 I guess it ties to photography, 214 00:13:59,939 --> 00:14:05,110 too, because what was your process 215 00:14:05,144 --> 00:14:12,751 when we were trying to take pictures of something with your tunnel vision? 216 00:14:12,885 --> 00:14:16,255 There's the technical aspect, and then there's the artistic aspect. 217 00:14:16,255 --> 00:14:21,126 From a technical aspect, looking through the lens finder of a camera 218 00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:25,130 is actually very liberating because it's this tiny piece. 219 00:14:25,164 --> 00:14:29,468 It actually really complements having tunnel vision because you 220 00:14:29,468 --> 00:14:31,870 put your eye up to this tiny hole. 221 00:14:31,904 --> 00:14:36,675 But because of the shape of the lens, you actually see so much more. 222 00:14:36,675 --> 00:14:42,314 So I feel like by looking through the camera body, I do think it 223 00:14:42,348 --> 00:14:47,152 invites access to a lot more visual information, which is exciting. 224 00:14:47,186 --> 00:14:51,790 Even talking about it makes me feel hungry in this creative way. 225 00:14:51,824 --> 00:14:53,459 I want it. I crave it. 226 00:14:53,459 --> 00:14:55,227 I need it. 227 00:14:55,394 --> 00:14:57,529 So there's that piece of it. 228 00:14:57,563 --> 00:15:00,833 And then artistically, I actually was using text 229 00:15:00,833 --> 00:15:04,003 in most of my early photography. 230 00:15:04,003 --> 00:15:08,607 I remember in my first film class, which was really scary and challenging 231 00:15:08,607 --> 00:15:11,377 because I was developing film in a dark room, 232 00:15:11,377 --> 00:15:15,481 where a dark room is hard for anybody. I have almost no vision, right? 233 00:15:15,481 --> 00:15:20,653 So I'm literally developing film almost completely blind, 234 00:15:20,686 --> 00:15:22,354 like really, really little vision. 235 00:15:22,354 --> 00:15:27,993 And My first really exciting project where I knew I was shooting on film, 236 00:15:28,027 --> 00:15:32,498 I did this series of photos that just said the phrase, It is what it is. 237 00:15:32,531 --> 00:15:36,268 And I scratched it into the skin of a banana. 238 00:15:36,302 --> 00:15:38,537 I wrote it on a mirror and like, lipstick. 239 00:15:38,537 --> 00:15:41,707 I made a latte, and you know, 240 00:15:41,740 --> 00:15:45,878 you can do our latte art on the top. 241 00:15:45,911 --> 00:15:51,483 I use cinnamon sprinkle to write, It is what it is, very delicately. 242 00:15:51,684 --> 00:15:56,188 Yeah, thinking about 243 00:15:56,188 --> 00:16:01,427 the opportunity to bring aphoristic text, like an aphorism, 244 00:16:01,427 --> 00:16:05,331 a phrase as small as possible with maximum impact, minimal text, 245 00:16:05,364 --> 00:16:12,037 is how I tried to, I guess, fuse writing and photography right from the get-go. 246 00:16:12,638 --> 00:16:14,473 Also traveling. 247 00:16:14,473 --> 00:16:16,642 You did that during traveling. 248 00:16:17,042 --> 00:16:23,349 Yeah, I did with the - 249 00:16:23,349 --> 00:16:26,018 "I miss places that never existed." 250 00:16:26,051 --> 00:16:29,388 It's my... I don't know. 251 00:16:29,388 --> 00:16:31,557 It's like my... 252 00:16:33,459 --> 00:16:35,494 A motto, maybe? 253 00:16:35,494 --> 00:16:39,398 It's a little piece of text art that I just make again and again 254 00:16:39,431 --> 00:16:41,667 and again in many different ways. 255 00:16:41,700 --> 00:16:45,637 So I put it on a T-shirt and stood in front of Michelangelo's David 256 00:16:45,671 --> 00:16:51,710 in Florence and set up a very particular self-portrait to stand in space and time 257 00:16:51,710 --> 00:16:56,548 with this very old, very acclaimed statue, 258 00:16:56,582 --> 00:16:59,318 which is in this really grand 259 00:16:59,318 --> 00:17:02,588 museum, which it also wasn't even built for that space. 260 00:17:02,621 --> 00:17:07,326 So there's this collision of the time that Michelangelo made the David. 261 00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:12,664 There's the time of a few hundred years later when it was placed in the building it's in now. 262 00:17:12,664 --> 00:17:17,403 And then there's the time of me coming in in 2018, wearing this shirt I made, 263 00:17:17,436 --> 00:17:19,538 I miss places that never existed. 264 00:17:19,571 --> 00:17:23,509 But also taking the photo on a vintage camera 265 00:17:23,509 --> 00:17:25,277 instead of on a contemporary digital camera. 266 00:17:25,310 --> 00:17:31,450 Having that shot on film and this anachronistic play with time and space. 267 00:17:31,483 --> 00:17:34,820 This all feels like very... 268 00:17:34,820 --> 00:17:37,956 I think Play is the most important word for my practice. 269 00:17:37,990 --> 00:17:43,328 I really try to be playful and sometimes with levity, 270 00:17:43,362 --> 00:17:47,399 but also with serious curiosity and 271 00:17:47,433 --> 00:17:51,203 contemplation, and, dare I say, philosophy. 272 00:17:51,203 --> 00:17:55,340 I'm very curious about 273 00:17:55,340 --> 00:17:58,644 my relationship to myself, my relationship to the landscape, 274 00:17:58,644 --> 00:18:04,049 and my relationship to other, everyone else, everything else. 275 00:18:04,316 --> 00:18:07,786 So I do take the - 276 00:18:07,786 --> 00:18:13,325 I take the poetry into space and I take myself through space, I guess. 277 00:18:14,493 --> 00:18:20,032 Speaking of poetry, there is a specific project that I know of 278 00:18:20,032 --> 00:18:23,635 because I followed the different steps of this project. 279 00:18:23,635 --> 00:18:29,975 And can you talk a little bit about what you did during the mentorship program? 280 00:18:30,075 --> 00:18:32,578 Yes, I'd be so happy to talk about this. 281 00:18:32,578 --> 00:18:35,347 It is still at the very forefront of my mind. 282 00:18:35,347 --> 00:18:40,752 So in my poetic practice, one of the ways that I really like to work is 283 00:18:40,786 --> 00:18:46,592 through erasure poetry, which is when you take an existing text and redact from it, 284 00:18:46,592 --> 00:18:47,826 remove from it, erase from it. 285 00:18:47,860 --> 00:18:50,162 There are different visual ways to do it. 286 00:18:50,195 --> 00:18:54,366 I've done work where I use a Sharpie and really black out, and then 287 00:18:54,366 --> 00:18:57,369 leaving those black lines feels really intentional. 288 00:18:57,402 --> 00:19:03,742 For this work, I digitally erased around words from every page of a book 289 00:19:03,775 --> 00:19:06,211 to make a whole collection of new poems. 290 00:19:06,211 --> 00:19:09,815 So I wanted to work with the book, A Room with a View, which is 291 00:19:09,815 --> 00:19:14,686 one of my favorite books, also very tied to Florence, which has felt very 292 00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:18,557 tied to my artistic practice. 293 00:19:18,557 --> 00:19:21,927 So I took A Room with a View by E. M. Forrester, 294 00:19:21,927 --> 00:19:26,198 and every single page I treated like a canvas, I guess, 295 00:19:26,231 --> 00:19:28,233 an existing canvas, 296 00:19:28,233 --> 00:19:33,939 and I just erased and carved a new poem 297 00:19:33,972 --> 00:19:39,778 out of every single individual page to a total of, I think it's 206 pages 298 00:19:39,811 --> 00:19:45,217 in six weeks, which was definitely my most ambitious poetry project 299 00:19:45,217 --> 00:19:48,453 in scale and in just duration. 300 00:19:48,487 --> 00:19:50,923 It was so exciting to finish it. 301 00:19:50,956 --> 00:19:55,327 As you know, I feel like, Diane, every week I was like, I'm not going to finish it in time. 302 00:19:55,360 --> 00:19:56,628 Okay, I'm going to finish it in time. 303 00:19:56,628 --> 00:19:58,230 Okay, no, there's no way I'm going to finish it in time. 304 00:19:58,263 --> 00:20:03,268 And then I somehow pulled it off, which I'm really proud of. 305 00:20:03,302 --> 00:20:05,537 And yeah, I'm sitting on this manuscript now. 306 00:20:05,537 --> 00:20:10,609 A very big, very intentional poetry collection that I guess 307 00:20:10,642 --> 00:20:14,546 the most important piece of it for me is the book is literally called A Room with a View, 308 00:20:14,546 --> 00:20:17,316 which I've retitled The View. 309 00:20:17,316 --> 00:20:21,653 And there's just so much language about 310 00:20:21,653 --> 00:20:26,558 looking, about vision, but particularly about something I'm so 311 00:20:26,592 --> 00:20:30,862 interested in, which is the language that we use for looking and seeing as this 312 00:20:30,896 --> 00:20:37,102 language that we use for knowledge and affirmation of the self. 313 00:20:37,135 --> 00:20:40,239 I've said this before in public speaking, 314 00:20:40,272 --> 00:20:44,977 but we use the words "to see you," 315 00:20:44,977 --> 00:20:47,446 like "I see you," as though we're saying, I know you. 316 00:20:47,479 --> 00:20:49,781 I know you deeply. I know you intimately. 317 00:20:49,815 --> 00:20:54,853 I know you on this spiritual or 318 00:20:54,853 --> 00:20:57,856 ethereal level that you can know someone. 319 00:20:57,889 --> 00:21:01,393 So there's so much rich language of looking and seeing and art 320 00:21:01,426 --> 00:21:08,233 and humor in that text that it just seemed like the perfect block of marble, 321 00:21:08,267 --> 00:21:10,836 if you will for me to carve from. 322 00:21:10,836 --> 00:21:15,307 And I was also very impressed by the text itself, the result 323 00:21:15,340 --> 00:21:18,043 of the poetry that comes through it. 324 00:21:18,076 --> 00:21:21,313 And when I was reading it, because I come from music, 325 00:21:21,313 --> 00:21:23,815 I could hear some level of music. 326 00:21:23,849 --> 00:21:27,019 With poetry, you already have that. 327 00:21:27,019 --> 00:21:30,722 With poetry, you have the music of the - the musicality of the poem itself 328 00:21:30,756 --> 00:21:34,059 and the rhythm and the words. 329 00:21:34,092 --> 00:21:40,165 Everyone can have a different music version of this poetry. 330 00:21:40,198 --> 00:21:44,269 I was having mine when I was reading your text and I was like, 331 00:21:44,303 --> 00:21:46,505 that would be really... 332 00:21:46,538 --> 00:21:50,242 I would hear that and that things, that background behind. 333 00:21:50,275 --> 00:21:55,414 I could see the pose being here hear and feel that. 334 00:21:55,414 --> 00:21:58,984 And that was very impressive because you did that with how many pages? 335 00:21:59,017 --> 00:22:05,557 Over 200, like 206, 210, maybe. 336 00:22:05,557 --> 00:22:06,725 Thank you. 337 00:22:06,758 --> 00:22:09,928 Thank you for bringing up music because that's actually such an important part 338 00:22:09,961 --> 00:22:13,632 of the work to me, which I completely missed addressing, 339 00:22:13,632 --> 00:22:19,271 that I often speak about this work as being like sheet music and 340 00:22:19,271 --> 00:22:23,775 a musical notation of a breath and sound and 341 00:22:23,809 --> 00:22:29,514 the body as an instrument through reading. 342 00:22:29,681 --> 00:22:33,251 I leave really intentional punctuation. 343 00:22:33,285 --> 00:22:34,953 Some pages get no punctuation. 344 00:22:34,986 --> 00:22:38,290 Some pages can be almost only punctuation. 345 00:22:38,323 --> 00:22:42,294 Where punctuation gets left in terms of negative space, I really think of this 346 00:22:42,294 --> 00:22:48,100 as beats, notes, rest stops, signatures. 347 00:22:48,133 --> 00:22:51,803 So it's really gratifying from a musician to hear from you 348 00:22:51,837 --> 00:22:54,506 that that comes through on the page. 349 00:22:54,639 --> 00:22:55,607 Yes, and I would... 350 00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:58,210 If one day you go further with it and you record it, 351 00:22:58,243 --> 00:22:59,878 I would love to participate in that. 352 00:22:59,911 --> 00:23:01,346 Yes, please. 353 00:23:01,380 --> 00:23:05,317 I would love that as well. 354 00:23:05,884 --> 00:23:07,352 Okay. Thank you for that. 355 00:23:07,352 --> 00:23:09,788 I was also curious. 356 00:23:09,821 --> 00:23:14,426 So we talked about the poetry of words, the photography. 357 00:23:14,459 --> 00:23:16,795 Are you also painting? 358 00:23:16,795 --> 00:23:18,563 I love painting. 359 00:23:18,597 --> 00:23:25,704 I think it's my least talented area, but I enjoy it incredibly. 360 00:23:25,737 --> 00:23:30,876 And I think maybe because I don't think I'm an excellent painter, 361 00:23:30,876 --> 00:23:37,182 maybe it's the only medium where I really let myself take off the pressure, 362 00:23:37,215 --> 00:23:43,388 do whatever I want, mix, hit the canvas with that brush, see what happens. 363 00:23:43,388 --> 00:23:49,394 Maybe it's my my most experimental just because I'm so not trying to impress myself, 364 00:23:49,394 --> 00:23:54,065 because I never impress myself, but I just I get to enjoy it. 365 00:23:54,099 --> 00:23:56,868 I do paint. I love it. 366 00:23:56,902 --> 00:24:00,705 With this diversity of activities and everything 367 00:24:00,705 --> 00:24:03,608 accessibility related, it's is also something, right? 368 00:24:03,642 --> 00:24:08,213 You have your own access needs that go to your arts. 369 00:24:08,246 --> 00:24:13,084 I was wondering, what for you is accessibility in the arts? 370 00:24:13,118 --> 00:24:15,120 What does it mean for you? 371 00:24:15,921 --> 00:24:21,026 I love this question, and I struggle with this question. 372 00:24:21,059 --> 00:24:27,866 It brings me back to my hesitancy to say anything means one thing to me 373 00:24:27,899 --> 00:24:29,868 because I think everything means many things. 374 00:24:29,901 --> 00:24:33,872 It's at the core of who I am as a person. 375 00:24:33,872 --> 00:24:39,010 But I mean, number one, accessibility means a seat at the table for everybody. 376 00:24:39,044 --> 00:24:41,947 Accessibility means that you're not an exception. 377 00:24:41,980 --> 00:24:47,519 You're an equal, insignificant participant to anybody else. 378 00:24:47,552 --> 00:24:54,426 I don't think there should have to be this feeling of feeling, this feeling 379 00:24:54,459 --> 00:24:59,831 of needing, that you're needing more than someone else. 380 00:24:59,898 --> 00:25:06,638 I struggled with this so much when I was in both of my visual arts programs, 381 00:25:06,671 --> 00:25:12,277 my undergrad and my master's, of feeling like I'm difficult, I'm needing. 382 00:25:12,277 --> 00:25:17,349 I'm needing so much more than the people in my cohorts that I'm afraid to vocalize it 383 00:25:17,349 --> 00:25:23,188 or I'm vocalizing it, and I'm afraid that people will think I'm difficult. 384 00:25:26,291 --> 00:25:31,129 My younger sister said to me, she's so wise, when I was struggling, 385 00:25:31,162 --> 00:25:37,302 I guess, pretty openly, emotionally with trying to navigate how much I wanted 386 00:25:37,335 --> 00:25:45,076 to share about my disability in my previous education, she said to me, 387 00:25:45,243 --> 00:25:49,581 Accommodation doesn't take away from anyone. 388 00:25:49,614 --> 00:25:52,584 It only gives. It only opens up space. 389 00:25:52,617 --> 00:25:55,520 No one loses by an accommodation being made. 390 00:25:55,554 --> 00:25:58,456 And she doesn't have a disability. 391 00:25:58,456 --> 00:26:00,759 And she just said it so simply to me. 392 00:26:00,759 --> 00:26:04,095 She could see that where I was carrying 393 00:26:04,129 --> 00:26:07,365 years of feeling a burden, 394 00:26:07,365 --> 00:26:13,505 feeling so much burdenship on the inside that I wouldn't even ask to see if people 395 00:26:13,538 --> 00:26:15,640 would make me feel like I was a burden. 396 00:26:15,674 --> 00:26:17,542 It was so internalized. 397 00:26:17,542 --> 00:26:22,347 The biggest thing that I'd like to see, and I think the most realistic step 398 00:26:22,380 --> 00:26:26,718 in making change, is opening up communication. 399 00:26:26,751 --> 00:26:30,956 I teach undergrads, I teach first years who are 400 00:26:30,989 --> 00:26:35,961 at the first time in the university level classroom, learning who they want to be, 401 00:26:35,994 --> 00:26:38,763 what they want to do, most importantly, how they want to write, how they want 402 00:26:38,763 --> 00:26:40,732 to communicate themselves to the world. 403 00:26:40,765 --> 00:26:46,237 And I try my darndest teach with radical honesty. 404 00:26:46,271 --> 00:26:51,943 I try to be radically honest with my students about my body 405 00:26:51,943 --> 00:26:56,281 appropriately, what I was - I was going to say suffer with, 406 00:26:56,314 --> 00:26:59,684 but I hate that word because I don't suffer, about how my body works in a way 407 00:26:59,684 --> 00:27:04,923 that helps me help them, and helps them help me in space. 408 00:27:04,956 --> 00:27:09,995 On my first day of introductions, I say who I am, what I'm doing, what I'm studying, 409 00:27:09,995 --> 00:27:11,696 a bit of professional history. 410 00:27:11,730 --> 00:27:14,366 And then I tell them that I'm low vision, I'm low hearing. 411 00:27:14,399 --> 00:27:16,334 This is how it manifestsests in the classroom. 412 00:27:16,368 --> 00:27:19,237 These are things that I've done with students in the past that have helped me. 413 00:27:19,270 --> 00:27:22,207 If you notice that I'm not seeing you and your hand is up, 414 00:27:22,207 --> 00:27:24,109 I'm not ignoring you, I'm not seeing you. 415 00:27:24,142 --> 00:27:25,644 So if you guys can help each other, 416 00:27:25,644 --> 00:27:28,580 if you see that I'm missing something, please let me know. 417 00:27:28,580 --> 00:27:33,284 I think starting from the baseline of making those conversations, 418 00:27:33,284 --> 00:27:37,155 not only okay, but encouraged, welcome, comfortable, easy, 419 00:27:37,188 --> 00:27:40,625 something like I'm at a point now where it's basically a script to me. 420 00:27:40,659 --> 00:27:43,628 There's very little emotional cost to say that 421 00:27:43,628 --> 00:27:45,697 because I'm comfortable at this point. 422 00:27:45,697 --> 00:27:48,233 But the first time I said that to a room of students, 423 00:27:48,233 --> 00:27:52,270 not only was it my first time teaching, but it was my first time 424 00:27:52,270 --> 00:27:55,573 telling a group of students I had a disability and worrying what that would mean. 425 00:27:55,607 --> 00:27:59,344 So that's extremely emotionally expensive. 426 00:27:59,344 --> 00:28:02,013 And I can appreciate how that's emotionally expensive 427 00:28:02,047 --> 00:28:03,982 for other people to get started. 428 00:28:03,982 --> 00:28:10,255 So all I can say is, again, radical honesty, trying to use, 429 00:28:10,288 --> 00:28:14,325 I don't know, the thick skin I built up over the years to 430 00:28:14,325 --> 00:28:21,900 hopefully lead by example and make that a more comfortable, inviting and 431 00:28:23,301 --> 00:28:28,506 elevating space for students with any disability or otherness to feel 432 00:28:28,506 --> 00:28:32,277 comfortable, and the very least, sharing with me about it and sharing them 433 00:28:32,310 --> 00:28:35,914 their needs, but hopefully sharing with their peers as well. 434 00:28:35,947 --> 00:28:41,386 And I have to say, it's been a really, really rewarding experience so far. 435 00:28:41,386 --> 00:28:46,758 I do feel like I've had really incredible classroom environments 436 00:28:46,758 --> 00:28:49,260 that I'm really appreciative for. 437 00:28:49,260 --> 00:28:54,032 And I think that as an educator, I'm focusing on 438 00:28:54,032 --> 00:28:56,401 the classroom environment for accessibility. 439 00:28:56,401 --> 00:28:59,571 But I think these are lessons that we take outside the classroom 440 00:28:59,604 --> 00:29:01,473 every single moment. 441 00:29:01,639 --> 00:29:06,511 Classroom is a space to play and to experiment with safety because there are 442 00:29:06,544 --> 00:29:12,350 rules in place to protect students as they try to learn who they are. 443 00:29:12,383 --> 00:29:17,388 Starting on groundwork, talking, talking about who we are 444 00:29:17,388 --> 00:29:21,292 and making it okay to be who you are out loud. 445 00:29:21,559 --> 00:29:27,932 We were talking about that communication as a means for education 446 00:29:27,966 --> 00:29:32,403 for people who don't know what... 447 00:29:32,504 --> 00:29:39,010 In your case, you have some invisible disabilities. 448 00:29:39,043 --> 00:29:43,848 When we meet you, we don't necessarily know that you have tunnel vision 449 00:29:43,882 --> 00:29:45,884 or hearing loss. 450 00:29:45,917 --> 00:29:50,054 We had this conversation with someone who 451 00:29:50,088 --> 00:29:54,392 tried to implement some accommodations, 452 00:29:54,425 --> 00:30:01,099 but in a way, didn't discuss with the people in the classroom, or didn't 453 00:30:01,132 --> 00:30:06,171 discuss with the parents, or didn't discuss with the administration. 454 00:30:06,204 --> 00:30:09,541 It needs to be a real team effort. 455 00:30:10,108 --> 00:30:13,811 The students are receptive to what you're saying, and they learn from 456 00:30:13,845 --> 00:30:18,817 But then you learn from them because they will give you some feedback. 457 00:30:18,817 --> 00:30:23,121 It's the same with trying to 458 00:30:23,121 --> 00:30:26,257 talk about a disability in front of people 459 00:30:26,291 --> 00:30:28,393 who don't know anything about disability. 460 00:30:28,426 --> 00:30:32,864 But then there's this little - It goes with the storytelling for me. 461 00:30:32,897 --> 00:30:37,702 It goes with the way you are communicating things and say, Well, it's fine, but 462 00:30:37,702 --> 00:30:41,873 just know that I don't see you if you're here. 463 00:30:41,906 --> 00:30:43,241 But it's fine. 464 00:30:43,274 --> 00:30:46,044 If you go here, then I see you. 465 00:30:46,077 --> 00:30:48,012 Yeah, and they forget all the time. 466 00:30:48,046 --> 00:30:51,316 I probably say once a week, I have to say to my students, 467 00:30:51,349 --> 00:30:54,152 Please remember to speak up. I'm hard of hearing. 468 00:30:54,185 --> 00:30:57,021 And I just repeat and I repeat and I repeat. 469 00:30:57,021 --> 00:31:00,291 I think because it's an invisible disability, it requires 470 00:31:00,325 --> 00:31:02,594 maybe more repetition. 471 00:31:02,627 --> 00:31:08,800 But it's a double-edged sword because I think that there are a lot of things that 472 00:31:08,833 --> 00:31:13,805 people who don't have - who have visible disabilities experience very different things than me. 473 00:31:13,805 --> 00:31:16,808 I have my cane literally right here. 474 00:31:16,841 --> 00:31:18,610 It's weird in the background. 475 00:31:18,643 --> 00:31:20,111 It sits on my desk. 476 00:31:20,144 --> 00:31:24,182 I don't really use it because it's a very different experience 477 00:31:24,182 --> 00:31:28,219 of being in the world for me. 478 00:31:29,654 --> 00:31:31,923 It gives me so much, 479 00:31:31,923 --> 00:31:37,095 but it makes me feel, like, emotionally insecure. 480 00:31:37,128 --> 00:31:39,797 Maybe it makes me feel more vulnerable. It's difficult. 481 00:31:39,797 --> 00:31:42,967 So I tend to only use my identifiers 482 00:31:42,967 --> 00:31:46,838 in the airport, where where on the one hand, 483 00:31:46,871 --> 00:31:48,239 it's really busy, so it's really helpful. 484 00:31:48,239 --> 00:31:52,343 But also, airports are such transitional spaces that I'm like, well, 485 00:31:52,377 --> 00:31:54,078 I'll never seeing any of these people again. 486 00:31:54,078 --> 00:31:56,648 It doesn't feel like it matters so much. 487 00:31:56,681 --> 00:32:00,618 But even as I say this, it doesn't matter ever. 488 00:32:00,652 --> 00:32:05,390 I can hear my own internal struggle 489 00:32:05,423 --> 00:32:10,194 with wanting to lead by example, 490 00:32:10,228 --> 00:32:15,099 by being the best, most confident, comfortable, disabled person I can be. 491 00:32:15,133 --> 00:32:16,501 But it's not so easy. 492 00:32:16,534 --> 00:32:21,005 It's not easy, but I'm working on it. 493 00:32:21,039 --> 00:32:24,776 Do you know Alex Bulmer, the playwright? 494 00:32:24,776 --> 00:32:26,110 Yes 495 00:32:26,110 --> 00:32:30,381 So her work is entirely into... 496 00:32:30,415 --> 00:32:38,056 Her recent play is called "Perceptual Archaeology or How to Travel Blind." 497 00:32:38,056 --> 00:32:44,562 She did a lot of things about trying to explore space in her own poetry 498 00:32:44,562 --> 00:32:51,336 of what she can imagine instead of based on her memories of something 499 00:32:51,369 --> 00:32:53,871 she was seeing and doesn't see anymore, 500 00:32:53,905 --> 00:33:01,379 but on her own imagination of the space. 501 00:33:01,479 --> 00:33:02,747 That's great. 502 00:33:02,780 --> 00:33:03,348 She has no... 503 00:33:03,381 --> 00:33:08,052 I mean, sometimes she travels with a dog, sometimes she is with a cane, 504 00:33:08,086 --> 00:33:12,123 sometimes she goes wild and she says, I'm going to go and travel 505 00:33:12,123 --> 00:33:17,528 kilometers and kilometers and go to another country or do the Camino. 506 00:33:17,562 --> 00:33:19,731 Okay, let's do it. 507 00:33:19,764 --> 00:33:21,733 It doesn't matter. 508 00:33:22,700 --> 00:33:28,506 What you say just reminded me 509 00:33:28,539 --> 00:33:32,276 of this conversation I had with her about 510 00:33:32,844 --> 00:33:38,549 adapting to spaces, but also because people see you in a way 511 00:33:38,583 --> 00:33:43,688 doing something, like trying to navigate or explore or talk. 512 00:33:43,721 --> 00:33:47,892 Then make them think. It's never totally... 513 00:33:47,925 --> 00:33:51,329 Even if you're students - you have to repeat some things, 514 00:33:51,329 --> 00:33:53,464 at a certain point, they're like, Oh, yeah. 515 00:33:53,498 --> 00:33:58,369 When you say, Oh, please, I remind you that there's this, 516 00:33:58,403 --> 00:33:59,804 then they say, Oh, yeah. 517 00:33:59,837 --> 00:34:01,839 Inside their head, they said, oh, yeah, I forgot that. 518 00:34:01,873 --> 00:34:06,878 And you can see the light bulb going off. 519 00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:14,752 Which is such a normal part of being a human being. 520 00:34:14,786 --> 00:34:16,854 We make mistakes like that all the time. 521 00:34:16,854 --> 00:34:19,323 You call somebody by the wrong name because you've only met them once. 522 00:34:19,357 --> 00:34:23,661 Or I don't know, you are 10 minutes late to a meeting 523 00:34:23,661 --> 00:34:25,463 because you went to the second floor instead of the third. 524 00:34:25,496 --> 00:34:28,166 Those 'oops' moments, they happen all the time. 525 00:34:28,199 --> 00:34:30,334 It's very normal. It's very human. 526 00:34:30,368 --> 00:34:35,173 I think the significant consequence is... 527 00:34:35,206 --> 00:34:38,109 It's a lot of work to feel like 528 00:34:38,142 --> 00:34:43,414 you're teaching people to treat you 529 00:34:43,448 --> 00:34:45,516 like a normal person sometimes. 530 00:34:45,516 --> 00:34:50,721 I have a lot of patience for it, especially in the classroom. 531 00:34:50,755 --> 00:34:56,394 But one in 25 interactions, I'll be like, 532 00:34:56,427 --> 00:35:00,331 I just don't feel like being your teacher today 533 00:35:00,331 --> 00:35:02,467 about disability, not about... 534 00:35:02,500 --> 00:35:06,204 I always feel like teaching my students, but I don't feel like teaching you 535 00:35:06,237 --> 00:35:07,672 how to speak to me as a disabled person. 536 00:35:07,705 --> 00:35:12,143 That's a very particular flavor that 537 00:35:12,143 --> 00:35:16,147 disabled people get to taste I think. 538 00:35:16,414 --> 00:35:17,782 True, yes. 539 00:35:17,815 --> 00:35:19,717 And you're teaching what? 540 00:35:19,750 --> 00:35:21,652 You told me you're teaching communication? 541 00:35:21,652 --> 00:35:22,487 Is that right? 542 00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:27,225 I'm teaching first year writing, so essay writing. 543 00:35:27,258 --> 00:35:29,060 Yeah. 544 00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:34,398 Well, the students are in a lecture on... 545 00:35:34,432 --> 00:35:35,433 It's really interesting. 546 00:35:35,466 --> 00:35:40,638 It's about intimacy and technology, but it's in the critical studies department, 547 00:35:40,638 --> 00:35:45,643 which is to basically get them to learn how to write essays, how to communicate. 548 00:35:45,643 --> 00:35:48,379 But it's so cool because I'm teaching it in an art school 549 00:35:48,412 --> 00:35:51,215 where they're very encouraged to... 550 00:35:51,249 --> 00:35:53,317 I mean, at least I really like to encourage... 551 00:35:53,317 --> 00:35:56,921 I'm a creative writer. I like to experiment with my writing. 552 00:35:56,921 --> 00:36:00,958 I like to encourage them to communicate clearly, but to think about 553 00:36:00,958 --> 00:36:05,563 how they can incorporate their own artistic practices into their writing. 554 00:36:05,596 --> 00:36:07,665 That should be encouraged. 555 00:36:07,698 --> 00:36:12,937 I think we're at such a moment of every moment, more and more 556 00:36:12,970 --> 00:36:17,575 intersectionality in the arts, but also just in identity at large. 557 00:36:17,608 --> 00:36:21,145 So I really like to bring that into the classroom, which again, 558 00:36:21,179 --> 00:36:26,317 circles back to if there's a disability that's part of your intersectionality, 559 00:36:26,317 --> 00:36:29,453 bring that into the writing and bring it into the creativity. 560 00:36:29,453 --> 00:36:34,192 I don't know. I wish I had 561 00:36:34,392 --> 00:36:36,694 had access to that when I was younger. 562 00:36:36,727 --> 00:36:39,931 I wish I had had the confidence and the comfort and the knowledge 563 00:36:39,964 --> 00:36:44,135 of knowing that that was an option for me because I feel like it saved my life. 564 00:36:44,168 --> 00:36:46,470 It saves my life every day. 565 00:36:46,504 --> 00:36:51,409 I'm really happy in my life right now. 566 00:36:51,442 --> 00:36:58,449 And my relationship to my art and writing practice is fundamental to that. 567 00:36:58,482 --> 00:37:00,451 That's the biggest part of who I am. 568 00:37:00,484 --> 00:37:06,290 My disability is an important identifier to me because it got me here. 569 00:37:06,324 --> 00:37:09,293 It's a really important part of my creative practice. 570 00:37:09,327 --> 00:37:12,697 But I think my creative practice is my biggest identifier. 571 00:37:12,730 --> 00:37:18,903 It's so tied to who I am as a person, and I need the disability to be part of that. 572 00:37:18,903 --> 00:37:24,242 I love and cherish and appreciate and coddle my disability. 573 00:37:24,275 --> 00:37:28,346 It's such an important part of me, and I'm very proud of it. 574 00:37:28,379 --> 00:37:32,350 I'm proud of myself for being in a place in my life where I can love it 575 00:37:32,383 --> 00:37:35,620 because it wasn't always like that. 576 00:37:35,620 --> 00:37:39,423 Who were your supports and your 577 00:37:39,457 --> 00:37:44,095 inspirations or the people who made you 578 00:37:44,128 --> 00:37:49,200 realize that you were a valuable artist? 579 00:37:49,233 --> 00:37:54,739 If you had some people to think of, teachers or people in your family 580 00:37:54,772 --> 00:38:00,911 or people, or artists, who really showed you a way, who would it be and why? 581 00:38:00,945 --> 00:38:06,350 I have the just clearest 582 00:38:06,350 --> 00:38:09,020 answer for this question, which is a sad one 583 00:38:09,053 --> 00:38:14,692 because my graduate advisor from my undergraduate program. 584 00:38:14,725 --> 00:38:16,293 Her name is Danielle Abrams. 585 00:38:16,327 --> 00:38:19,664 She changed me. 586 00:38:19,697 --> 00:38:22,967 She changed me in so many ways. 587 00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:25,636 She just... 588 00:38:25,670 --> 00:38:30,875 Hardly knowing me, even from our first conversation, before I even accepted to 589 00:38:30,908 --> 00:38:33,878 be a candidate in that program. 590 00:38:33,911 --> 00:38:38,049 I think when I talk about the language of saying to somebody, 591 00:38:38,049 --> 00:38:44,689 I see you means I know you, I think I've never felt so seen by somebody until I spoke to her. 592 00:38:44,722 --> 00:38:50,795 She just had that magical quality, I think, to make 593 00:38:50,828 --> 00:38:53,097 so many people feel like that. 594 00:38:53,097 --> 00:38:59,203 And she very sadly passed away right before I finished that program, 595 00:38:59,203 --> 00:39:05,042 which was just terrible and still is terrible. 596 00:39:06,077 --> 00:39:11,615 I think there was a really beautiful experience that came 597 00:39:11,615 --> 00:39:14,819 right after she passed away. 598 00:39:14,819 --> 00:39:18,956 The outpouring of so many people 599 00:39:18,956 --> 00:39:22,193 who said the exact same thing as me. 600 00:39:22,226 --> 00:39:23,627 She made me feel special. 601 00:39:23,661 --> 00:39:24,795 She made me feel seen. 602 00:39:24,829 --> 00:39:27,898 She made me feel like I could do anything. I was like, wait a second. 603 00:39:27,898 --> 00:39:30,000 I thought I was a special one. 604 00:39:30,034 --> 00:39:33,738 But I think it's so beautiful because I think 605 00:39:33,771 --> 00:39:37,241 she was so special that she could really just see and connect with people, 606 00:39:37,241 --> 00:39:41,912 lift people up, make people feel seen, make every person feel valuable, 607 00:39:41,946 --> 00:39:46,484 regardless of who they are, where they're coming from, where they're going. 608 00:39:47,118 --> 00:39:51,555 That's my biggest inspiration as an educator. 609 00:39:51,589 --> 00:39:53,824 That's the person that I want to be. 610 00:39:53,858 --> 00:39:58,763 I want to be able to not just open doors for students in the world, 611 00:39:58,763 --> 00:40:01,966 but open doors within themselves. 612 00:40:01,999 --> 00:40:06,337 Danielle gave me the gift of believing 613 00:40:06,337 --> 00:40:09,673 that what I had to say wasn't just worthy 614 00:40:09,707 --> 00:40:13,811 of being heard, but that it was important and something we're fighting for. 615 00:40:13,844 --> 00:40:18,416 She such a beautiful person, one of the most important people 616 00:40:18,449 --> 00:40:21,585 that I've ever encountered in my life. 617 00:40:21,952 --> 00:40:26,390 And my family give me incredible support. 618 00:40:26,423 --> 00:40:28,492 I literally couldn't be here. 619 00:40:28,492 --> 00:40:32,429 I have two sisters and my parents. 620 00:40:32,463 --> 00:40:36,367 I'm so lucky to have all of them. 621 00:40:36,367 --> 00:40:42,773 My grandfather, my grandmother, who I miss dearly, I dreamed about last night. 622 00:40:42,807 --> 00:40:44,542 I have a really beautiful family. 623 00:40:44,575 --> 00:40:51,081 I'm one of 10 grandchildren, and I just grew up at least once a week, 624 00:40:51,081 --> 00:40:53,984 but usually more having family dinners. 625 00:40:53,984 --> 00:41:00,057 with my grandparents, two aunts, two uncles, my parents, myself, my sisters, 626 00:41:00,090 --> 00:41:02,560 and then all those first cousins. 627 00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:07,131 And I think having this built in network 628 00:41:07,164 --> 00:41:12,603 of love and security 629 00:41:12,603 --> 00:41:18,542 to be my weirdest self at least once a week with those cousins to be the weirdest. 630 00:41:18,576 --> 00:41:19,677 I was such a weird kid. 631 00:41:19,677 --> 00:41:22,947 I'm 29, and I still feel like I'm a weird kid. 632 00:41:22,980 --> 00:41:28,519 But getting that space to have the safety to be as weird as you want to be 633 00:41:28,519 --> 00:41:33,624 and still feel loved, that's one of the greatest gifts a person could have. 634 00:41:33,657 --> 00:41:36,160 And every day of my life, as I get older and older, 635 00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:39,897 I appreciate that more and more. 636 00:41:41,298 --> 00:41:43,000 But Danielle, I just think about... 637 00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:48,138 I think about Danielle all the time, Danielle and my grandmother, Sarah Bresge, 638 00:41:48,138 --> 00:41:53,611 are probably the two biggest ones for me. 639 00:41:53,644 --> 00:41:58,649 Well, thank you so much for sharing your story with us and all your experience. 640 00:41:58,682 --> 00:42:04,355 I guess by listening to this podcast or visioning this podcast, 641 00:42:04,388 --> 00:42:09,960 sometimes you have one person who say, That's exactly how I feel. 642 00:42:09,994 --> 00:42:11,595 I want to do that. 643 00:42:11,629 --> 00:42:14,798 And so you might have inspired someone who's listening today. 644 00:42:14,798 --> 00:42:16,834 I hope so. I'm crossing my fingers. 645 00:42:16,867 --> 00:42:18,903 I really hope so. 646 00:42:18,903 --> 00:42:23,140 Please let me know if that has been the case for you. 647 00:42:23,507 --> 00:42:24,875 Okay, thank you so much. 648 00:42:24,909 --> 00:42:30,814 And I'm sure we will talk to each other again soon. 649 00:42:30,814 --> 00:42:31,815 For sure. 650 00:42:31,849 --> 00:42:33,284 Okay, thank you so much, Diane. 651 00:42:33,284 --> 00:42:37,187 And thank you for being the best mentor in the program. 652 00:42:37,221 --> 00:42:40,024 Literally the best of the best. 653 00:42:40,024 --> 00:42:44,962 Speaking of people who inspire me, you're sitting right here 654 00:42:44,962 --> 00:42:46,397 in the Zoom room with me. 655 00:42:46,430 --> 00:42:50,801 Thank you for sharing your time with me. 656 00:42:51,235 --> 00:42:54,238 It was a pleasure, really. 657 00:42:54,271 --> 00:42:59,877 When the process of pairing the mentors and the mentees - 658 00:42:59,877 --> 00:43:02,680 For us, at least, they did a very good job because 659 00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:05,282 when I received your documents, 660 00:43:05,316 --> 00:43:08,819 I was already, Wow, that's great. 661 00:43:08,819 --> 00:43:12,256 I really want to meet her. 662 00:43:12,256 --> 00:43:15,626 I had the exact the same experience on my end. 663 00:43:15,626 --> 00:43:20,331 Even before we were officially paired, just when I was having 664 00:43:20,364 --> 00:43:21,699 the conversations about... 665 00:43:21,699 --> 00:43:24,234 They asked me what I'm looking for in a mentor. 666 00:43:24,268 --> 00:43:30,274 As soon as I described, they were like, Oh, I've got someone in mind. 667 00:43:30,307 --> 00:43:33,677 And just the way that there was so much certainty, I was like, 668 00:43:33,711 --> 00:43:36,380 It's going to be good. And I was like... 669 00:43:36,647 --> 00:43:38,315 Thank you again. 670 00:43:38,349 --> 00:43:40,317 You're welcome. Okay. 671 00:43:40,351 --> 00:43:42,152 Have a great one. And talk soon. 672 00:43:42,186 --> 00:43:43,253 Thank you. Okay. 673 00:43:43,253 --> 00:43:44,888 Thanks, Diane. Bye-bye. 674 00:43:44,888 --> 00:43:45,522 Bye. 675 00:43:46,824 --> 00:43:51,962 ♪ Closing theme music ♪