♪ Opening theme music ♪
Hello, and welcome to this episode of ArtsAbly in Conversation.
My name is Diane Kolin.
This series presents artists, academics, and project leaders who dedicate their
time and energy to a better accessibility for people with disabilities in the arts.
You can find more of these conversations on our website, artsably.com,
which is spelled A-R-T-S-A-B-L-Y dot com.
♪ Theme music ♪
Today, ArtsAbly is in conversation with Ally Hocking Howe, an Australian
violinist, vocalist, composer, and producer living in Texas.
You can find the resources mentioned by Ally Hocking Howe during this episode
on ArtsAbly's website in the blog section.
♪ [Excerpt of "Orange (Unreleased). Live from UTOPiAfest 2024. Ally plays pizzicati on her violin.] ♪
♪ Freckles all in a line ♪
♪ Curly lashes hanging over mine, mm mmm ♪
♪ Around and round and round and round ♪
♪ we spin. ♪
♪ Around and round and round and round ♪
♪ we spin. ♪
♪ Second guessing all the things that we both know. ♪
♪ Like cicadas in the trees and the space you’re giving me. ♪
♪ But I need words sometimes. ♪
♪ Around and round and round and round ♪
♪ we spin. ♪
♪ Around and round and round and round ♪
♪ we spin. ♪
♪ [Ally plays her violin.] ♪
♪ [End of the excerpt.] ♪
Welcome to this new episode of ArtsAbly in Conversation.
Today, I am with Ally Hocking Howe, who is an Australian violinist, vocalist,
composer, and producer living in Texas.
Welcome, Ali. Thank you.
Thanks for having me.
Thank you for being here.
Okay, so I always want to start these episodes by asking a little bit
about our guests, so your background,
where you come from,
where your musical story began.
Yeah. A little summary about who I am is I'm from Australia.
I was born in the capital, Canberra, and born and raised in Canberra.
Then I recently moved to Texas almost a year ago now, and I moved so that
I could study a Masters of Jazz Studies at UNT
under Professor Scott Tixier, who's a jazz violinist.
And I grew up playing violin.
I originally wanted to learn the bagpipes, but my moms said, Absolutely not.
And so I picked the violin instead.
And I wasn't a very good student until I got older.
I always had a very, very hard time focusing.
I never liked practicing.
And in the lessons, when a teacher was there to hold my hand through it,
I really liked it.
But then I would get home and I just would lose interest really quickly.
But for some reason, I never wanted to quit.
And so I stuck with it.
And then as I got older and developed more studious skills, I started to
really, really, really love it.
So violin has been the biggest musical component
of my life, but I never really fit the conventional classical box.
So once I was 18, I started really branching out and started learning jazz.
And then from there, I started learning more contemporary styles
and learning how to produce.
And now my original artist world is centered around violin, vocals,
and a lot of electronic production.
And I try and integrate them as much as possible.
So, yeah, that's me.
So when did you start music?
When did it start in your career?
I started violin when I was five, but it really wasn't something
that I ever considered more of a hobby until I was 18.
And that's when I started my undergrad degree.
And I was enrolled in a double degree back in Australia in music
and also medical science.
And I wanted to be a doctor.
I wanted to go into medicine, but I wanted to keep music alive,
hence why I did the double.
But within the first semester, it completely flipped.
I realized, oh, music is what I want to do.
I didn't know how I was going to make that a career.
I didn't know what that looked like, but I just knew that
the medicine stuff I still did, and I completed that degree,
but it became more of the hobby, whereas music
consumed every other hour of my day.
Probably 18 is when that shift happened.
It was focused on jazz, right, already?
Or did you have a classical training, too?
Yeah, I did classical up until I was 18.
But one of my teachers, she's wonderful.
Her name is Charlotte Winslade, and she used to bribe me.
And she would say, If you learn this many classical pieces, you can learn
this fun folk piece as a little reward.
And so I did the classical stuff.
And classical music is beautiful, but the stuff that resonated with me that I liked
playing was anything but the classical.
So often it was folk.
And then I did start jazz because that was the only other pathway
where I did my undergrad.
But it was jazz violin, but I would still integrate lots of other things.
So I would always have one token folk piece in my recital.
And yes, pretty eclectic.
And did you produce yourself a lot in Australia when you were there?
Yeah.
Originally, I didn't know how to produce. I knew how to record and
towards the end of my degree, I was doing at home remote session work
for people over lockdown.
And so I could record myself and edit my violin parts and send off the audio, but
I didn't know anything about production.
And then in my final semester, I was doing this course, and
it's like a create your own music course.
The course convener would let you pick and choose what you wanted to do.
And I decided I want to produce a four track EP.
And originally, I wanted to work with producers and collaborate
on violin electronic stuff.
But the course convener said, Oh, just watch YouTube videos and teach yourself.
And at the time, I thought that was so harsh because I thought,
If I could produce, I would be producing by now.
But yeah, his advice changed my career trajectory because I did.
And I asked friends for help and just through word of mouth and a lot
of YouTube tutorials, I taught myself how to produce, and I fell in love with it
in a way that I never had with music before.
I would sit down in the morning at 10:00 AM and start working
on production stuff, and then I would blink and it would be midnight.
So I really fell in love with it.
How many - did you produce CDs, too, or recordings?
Did you release?
Yeah, I made my four-track EP
in Ableton, and then I distributed it.
And the reason behind that was I still was on the fence about,
do I do music or medicine as a career?
And I thought, well, regardless of what I choose, if I have this EP that's
released everywhere on every platform, then it's like a little memento.
But throughout the whole process of learning how to do electronic production,
I really fell in love with it.
And that's what I decided to keep doing.
But yeah, I never made physical copies.
I thought about CDs or vinyl, even little cassettes, that's become popular again.
But they're all really expensive.
Doing everything on a self-funded budget, even just getting it
all distributed, and that was enough.
During the period where you were hesitating between medicine and music,
that might seem like a strange question to ask, but did one domain
impact your other domain?
Where you - When you were thinking of medicine, was there a lot
of impact of music and vice versa that was counterbalancing your choices?
I think so, yeah.
One thing I really noticed is throughout the whole time studying medicine,
music was always there.
When I would get stressed before exams, I would listen
to songs, music to calm down.
Or when I was studying for an exam, I would break up my study, sitting with
the textbooks, with practicing.
I would do an hour at the textbook and then 10 minutes
as a reward with my violin.
And it really just made me realize that when I'm happy or when I'm sad
or when I'm stressed, no matter what my mental state is, I always seek out music.
And even if it's listening to other artists' music, it's still
something that was so important to me.
Whereas when I was doing all my music stuff, I wasn't really thinking about
my anatomy classes or anything.
And so that became - That shifted the balance and made me realize,
Oh, I'm not ready to give up music.
I really want to stick through it.
You told me that the reason why you moved to Texas was to
study jazz with Scott Tixier.
But it's a big decision when you build up your career in Australia and you
have all your background over there and
your productions and your partnerships.
What was the big decision?
Was it obvious for you that you wanted to go to the States to study?
Not really.
Leading up to it, I was so stressed because it felt
like such a pivotal decision.
All my family and friends were in Australia, and my network
was really developing.
I was regularly gigging every single week.
I had a really solid community there,
but I knew that I wanted
to do something overseas.
And growing up in Canberra, Canberra is quite a small city,
and there's a lot that's happening there.
But I just knew that I wanted to move somewhere.
And unfortunately, there's nowhere else in Australia that offers any jazz
or contemporary or alternative violin at the master's level.
And I knew that a good reason to move would be to do further study.
And so I applied everywhere in the world that I could find that had
any alternative, like pop, contemporary jazz, anything, like violin programs.
And there was only six places that I could find.
And UNT was my top choice because I knew Professor Tixier
taught there, and I'd already had some Skype lessons and stuff from him.
But I wasn't expecting to get in.
And so I applied thinking, oh, they'll knock me back,
I'll get feedback, and then I can apply the following year and do better.
But then I did get in, and then I was offered a scholarship,
and one that I couldn't defer.
So I thought, I've got to go.
And then I had about three months to pack up everything
and move my life over to the States.
But yeah, it felt like a once in a lifetime opportunity that
at the time I wasn't quite ready for.
But I think that was just the stress of moving.
And as soon as I got here, I've just loved it.
I've loved every minute of it.
I know it's been one year you're there? Yeah.
So tell me about your life there.
What were you - I know you went to some festivals and things like that,
and probably with your master, you also have some opportunities.
Tell me about your life there.
It's just been wonderful.
I'll start with the Jazz Strings program at UNT.
And it's a reasonably new program.
I think it was created about six or seven years ago,
and Professor Tixier has been running it that whole time.
And back in Australia, I was the only non classical strings player.
But coming here, there's about 10 of us that are all doing the major.
That's across undergrads and master students.
And so I got here and was surrounded by these incredible players that -
we all love the jazz stuff, but everyone also has their unique side projects that they do.
And it's just been wonderful to have peers and to have an actual in-person
jazz violin teacher, let alone one that's so accomplished and good.
And Professor Tixier, he's also really encouraging
of us each finding our own artistry.
And so in most of my lessons, I'll come and have these in-person
lessons where we do all the jazz stuff.
And then in the last five or 10 minutes, I'll show him one of my new
electronic pop songs that I've made.
And he's always really encouraging.
So that's been a really nice balance.
And so it's in Denton, which is quite a small town.
It's Texas, so it's really hot in the summer.
I don't have a car, so I just walk with a big shirt on so I don't get sunburn.
But a really lovely community is here.
And shortly after moving, I was just
googling any festival
or emerging artist festival in the Texas area.
And I think I sent out about 50 or 60 emails, and I heard back from one from...
His name is Travis, and he organizes UTOPiAfest and Eclipse Utopia, which was
the special festival for the big Texas Eclipse that happened this year.
And he got back to me and said, We've completely filled the lineup
already, but we'll squeeze you in.
Would you be happy with a 1:00 AM set?
And I said, Yes, absolutely.
And so I got together a band with my friends.
A lot of my set is electronic, and I perform with my laptop.
But how I've created it, I can mute certain instruments.
So for this gig, I wanted to play with
my friend who's a drummer and my other friend who's a bassist.
So I just muted those tracks and got them in the band,
and we road tripped all the way to this festival.
It was about a six-hour road trip, fitting all of our gear
in this tiny, tiny little car.
And when we arrived, another act had pulled out.
So Travis said, Do you guys want to also do a 1:00 PM slot on the main stage?
And we were like, Yes, absolutely.
And so we got to play two gigs at this festival.
We camped there for the whole four or five days.
And we met so many amazing musicians all from around the Austin area.
Yeah, so I got really lucky with that one.
And yeah, just a lovely community again.
And in doing that gig, I for the first time googled the population
of Texas compared to Australia.
And there are slightly more people that live in Texas than in all of Australia.
And it just clicked like, Oh, that's why the industry is so much bigger here
because it's just so populated.
The industry is thriving compared to certain sections of the Australian one.
I guess with these opportunities,
it also creates links for the future.
These are people you can contact back and say, It was such a great time last year.
Let's do it again.
Yeah.
And that's something I've been really pleasantly surprised with
is leading up to the move from Australia, I knew that the standard of musicianship,
especially at UNT in the jazz program, I knew that it was going to be really high.
But I didn't expect everyone to be so kind.
And when I got here, they're just the most incredible players, but they're all
really helpful and really encouraging and just really kind to each other.
I've really enjoyed that aspect of it.
Is there a specific project that you're working on right now to
prepare future gigs or future releases?
Yeah, absolutely.
My biggest project has probably been my album, which is currently
getting mixed and mastered.
I call it an album because it's a collection of eight new songs.
But when I release it, I'll probably release one single after the other.
I've been working on that for about a year now.
And since moving, I added more songs and I wrote more of them.
I've stuck with my wonderful mixing engineer.
His name is Louis Montgomery, back in Australia.
And so this summer, actually, I finally finished up all of the songs
and sent them all across to him.
I'm really excited about it because my EP was instrumental, so only violin
and then electronic components.
But every song on this new album has my vocals on it.
And singing for me has been one of the scariest musical endeavors
I've ever done.
But yeah, it certainly pushed me.
But I'm really excited to get it out there and start doing a lot more vocal stuff.
Plus you're creating - I had the chance to listen to one of the songs of this future album,
the one that was recorded that you performed at this Utopia festival.
I really love the way you were creating some layers of vocals
and singing on yourself and replying to yourself.
Plus, yeah, it was - for three musicians
on stage, it created such an impression
of being a full mini band.
Thank you.
Very nice.
I think one of the first non classical things I did was when I was 17.
I have two mums, and one of my mums, Taryn, she bought me a loop station,
like the ones that Ed Sheeran uses.
I remember sitting in my room and thinking, does this even
work with a violin? How do I do this?
I started again watching YouTube tutorials, and I learned how to
loop my violin and create layers.
Because unlike a piano or a guitar, violins really can only play one
to two melody lines at a time.
So learning how to loop and add layers of my violin, it was just a really nice,
like, oh, I'm surrounded by harmony.
And so I've tried to keep that element in all of my original songs.
So there's like, some of them have over 60 violin parts all stacked
on each other, but also, yeah, lots of vocal harmonies and vocal looping.
So thank you.
We know each other through RAMPD.
When I was hearing you talking about these looping pedal, I was also thinking
of Gaelynn Lea, because if you listen
to what she's doing with her violin,
she's a violinist and a singer, too.
She is using the loop pedal a lot
and creating the atmosphere that goes
very well with her own style, which is
a lot of different style, but folk and some
Celtic things that she's putting inside.
That's something, if you want inspiration on something completely different from
your style, it's a very good inspiration.
I really like what she's doing.
She's incredible.
I remember the classical teacher that I had throughout my teenage years.
This is the one that would give me folk songs as treats every now and then.
She, one day in a lesson, showed me her playing, and I was blown away.
It really has that folk element, but also the loop element.
Yeah, it's beautiful.
Yes, it is.
Well, I have a question for you that I really love because every time I'm asking
this question, there is a second of, Oh, yeah, that's an interesting question.
I like to call it our work in accessibility arts.
Really working in an environment
where we promote accessibility and we promote equality in our performances.
What is it for you to work in this accessibility arts environment?
I think it's so many things.
One of the first things that comes to mind is,
I think on ways to make pedagogy,
whether it's classical or jazz, more accessible, I feel like
there's so much more room for that.
And all of my formative years were playing classical music.
And I was lucky in that I had teachers who did accommodate some of that,
my accessibility needs.
But there was still a really strong pedagogy of this is what you do.
This is how we teach.
This is what a student should do and what's right and wrong.
And I think there are certain things that for me, I really struggled with.
And for many years, I just thought, I'm just not a violinist.
This is not what I meant to do.
Because one of the most basic ones, now when I practice,
the violin is a really loud instrument.
And aside from the fact that it's good to wear hearing protection, like earplugs for ear health,
when you have sensory issues,
particularly surrounding sound, it's not an intuitive thing
to pick up a violin, hold it this close to your ear,
and then play really loud high pitch stuff.
And so now when I practice, particularly if I'm learning something new,
I either wear two headphones, not fully noise canceling, but ones
that dampen the sound, or I wear a single ear plug in my left ear.
I can practice my violin for hours without getting this mental fatigue,
which I'm now learning is probably because the noise is just really draining my focus.
So I think little things like that, teachers suggesting really simple,
affordable ways that their students can make instruments seem more appealing.
Or another one, I was taught when I was little that I had
to stand really still to play the violin, and that was to prep me for orchestra
and orchestral settings where you can't just get up and walk around.
But when I was practicing, I was also told to stand really still.
And for so many little kids, even kids that aren't neurodivergent,
they're going to struggle with that.
And so I think creating ways of normalizing that would really help,
or other things like playing scales.
So many kids, especially kids with neurodiversities,
they're going to struggle to focus.
So telling them, Oh, well, try walking in a circle while you
practice your scales, or walk outside in the garden while you're...
Or giving them other physical stemming activities to do.
I think stuff like that would be a bit of a game changer for a lot of little kids.
In terms of the gig environment and the performance environment,
I love going to concerts,
but so often I find them so draining, so incredibly draining.
And I get home and I crash and I just feel burnt out.
And this is me attending as a guest.
And I have this little dream that at some point,
maybe when I'm less of an emerging artist and more of an established one,
I want to perform gigs where at the front of the stage,
there's just an area with a bunch of pillows and people can
sit on the floor or lay down.
I think that would be the best thing in the world.
But having so many gigs where the audience members
have to stand in a really compact space and then right in front of the monitors,
so it's so loud, that's so exhausting.
And it's...
Gigs aren't often wheelchair accessible.
And yeah, I just think having a dedicated area where people can just
sit or stand however they like, I think that would be wonderful.
And again, pretty simple, but I've never seen it before.
Where I live, I live in Toronto in Canada,
and there is an organization called Xenia Concerts.
Xenia, they are specialized in relaxed performances.
They train musicians to be familiar
with relaxed performances and to include
the audience in everything they're doing.
It could be, for example, all what you described, the cushions,
and there is a quiet room for spinning or for playing puzzles or whatever,
have a moment out of the room,
or they bring dogs, or they...
They also ask for feedback after each concert so that if there was one issue
for the next one, it's going to be fixed.
Also for the performers, each performer gets a training
to explain that it's important, for example,
to encourage the audience
to just move around and stand and walk and draw
and do whatever they want, but also,
every two or three pieces, there is a stretch break.
We're doing a story or a stretch exercise or something.
It's totally different from a classical standard or classical
or a standard, standardized.
It exists and it comes more and more.
I heard that a lot of big orchestras, they partner with these organizations
to make sure that at least maybe once in a while, they do
a concert that is accessibility friendly
with everything that is behind that word.
So, yeah, it comes, it comes.
I would love to go to one of those.
That sounds wonderful.
I wanted to come briefly back to your access needs.
Did you work with your teachers when you were studying to make sure that these
access needs were met, or did you have to figure out by yourself and try to impose
or come back to the conversation saying, I found this that would work for me?
I think I largely worked it out by myself.
Because also in a lesson, you only spend 30 minutes to an hour
with a teacher each week.
And so often I could get through that.
It was more when I had to practice and there was this expectation of,
okay, now I need to go home and practice four to five hours a day.
That's when I really struggled.
And I think it took me a long time to realize that those two things were linked
and that I was struggling to...
Because I would try and go home and stand exactly how I would in a lesson in front
of my violin stand and just focus.
And it took me a long time to realize that that expectation
wasn't practical for me and probably isn't practical for a lot of people.
It's been kind of good to work it out on my own, but
I think it would have been nice
to have more chats along the way with teachers or more little ideas.
And sometimes they were great and they would throw out ideas.
One teacher, he suggested that for physical posture health,
he recommended sometimes sitting, like sit for 30 minutes, lean on a stool,
like a piano for 30 minutes, stand for 30 minutes, and keep rotating that.
But it was never, I guess, the target of my accessibility needs.
It was more just brainstorming stuff.
Well, thank you for all the story.
I have a last question, a last big question.
I still have a tiny one for the end.
But this big question is about
inspirations or connections or people
with whom you have worked and who really got you to the place where you are today.
If you had a few people to think of and to name, who would it be and why?
Are we talking famous people?
That's really up to you.
If it's someone who really...
Like a teacher who inspired you, or if it's someone who just
you listened to a lot when you were a kid or something like that, it doesn't matter.
It's really who inspired you in your musical career?
The first one that springs to mind is,
do you know Bon Iver, led by Justin Vernon?
He's an a huge musical inspiration to me and an artist that
I've loved for many years.
And I saw him performing.
I was lucky enough to attend one of his gigs when he came to Australia.
It was back, it was about two years ago now.
And he is known for performing with over-the-ear headphones.
And a lot of artists will have in-ear monitors, but he just
uses big over-the-ear headphones.
I don't know why, but it made me realize, oh, There must be some reason why
he chooses that over the more discrete ones.
But people don't see him perform and go, Oh, that's unconventional,
that's weird, why is he wearing big over-the-ear headphones?
They just go, Wow, it's Bon Iver. It's amazing.
And that gave me the idea of, Oh, if I'm feeling too over stimulated
by the sound of my violin, I'll just wear headphones, and it just makes everything
a little bit dull in a good way.
So he's definitely been an inspiration, and all of his music growing up
I would obsess over it with all of the harmonies and this indie folk vibe.
So, yeah, him for sure.
Some other artists, I saw online once
that Cher that she has ADHD and dyslexia.
And again, I grew up listening to Cher. I've got two moms.
They would blast Cher all the time.
And so that was quite nice going, Oh, nice.
She's similar to me.
And I also have Ehlers–Danlos syndrome, which is a connective tissue disorder
where everything's a little bit too bendy.
And I've had many surgeries because of that.
And again, playing the violin, it's not an ergonomic instrument.
Being in this position for hours a day, it's bad.
It messes up your back.
But then when you combine having all of my little tendons and ligaments
are slightly too hypermobile, it explains why I get a lot of pain when I play.
And I've always had to do physiotherapy and stuff to accommodate that.
But I recently found out that Billie Eilish
is rumored to have Ehlers–Danlos syndrome.
And I saw her back in, I think, 2019 or 2020,
and she had her legs and knees all taped up
because, again, she was having lots of joint issues.
And so it's always nice to me when I see artists that -
she wasn't hiding the tape on her knees in the same way that Bon Iver
wasn't hiding his massive headphones.
I always like seeing that because it breaks the mold
in the the tiniest, most subtle way.
But I'm sure there are so many people out there that go, Oh, they look like me.
Those are the little accessibility things that I use on my day-to-day life.
That's good.
It's good to hear that because one of the conversations we have -
so I'm slightly older than you, and disabled artists
from the generation just before you, we often have
this conversation that we didn't have any role model growing growing up.
And so, for example, Lachi, who is also the co founder
of RAMPD, she was saying, I want to be the role model
for the younger generation
of artists with visual issues and
Black women who are proud of who they are,
and it doesn't matter whatever
your access needs or whatever are,
everything should be met and we should be proud of all that.
And I really love what you're saying that
today, in our times, there are more and more people
who don't fear to show their vulnerabilities in a way.
I love that.
It makes me really happy and hopeful for the next years.
Yeah, me too.
Okay, here goes my tiny little question at the end.
If anyone on this podcast is listening
and wondering, Oh, I would really love to
do like Ally and have the courage to
move to another country or become a producer
or use a looping pedal.
Do you have any advice for these maybe young musicians
who are listening to us right now?
My biggest bit of advice would just be to stay really curious.
And especially in today's digital age, don't be afraid to reach out to people
and just ask for help.
With my move to America, I was receiving advice from people that
I had really looked up to when I was younger.
And it would just be to ask.
Watch YouTube videos, watch tutorials, try and teach yourself as much as possible.
But also reach out to the artists that you like, because
sometimes they reply to you and they'll answer questions
and they'll go, Oh, here's how I do it.
And that's one of the most motivational things ever,
to hear back from someone that you look up to.
And in my experience, more often than not, these older,
more established musicians are really down to help out younger artists.
So, yeah, stay curious and ask people lots of questions.
Very good advice.
Okay, so thank you so much for this time together.
I wish you all the best with all your projects and success in
your studies and your future recording.
Thank you so much.
Lovely to meet you.
Lovely to meet you, too. Have a good day.
Thank you. You, too.
Bye.
♪ Closing theme music ♪