1 00:00:01,000 --> 00:00:06,139 ♪ Opening theme music ♪ 2 00:00:14,247 --> 00:00:19,119 Hello, and welcome to this episode of ArtsAbly in Conversation. 3 00:00:19,119 --> 00:00:21,354 My name is Diane Kolin. 4 00:00:22,122 --> 00:00:27,193 This series presents artists, academics and project leaders who dedicate their 5 00:00:27,193 --> 00:00:33,233 time and energy to a better accessibility for people with disabilities in the arts. 6 00:00:33,233 --> 00:00:38,505 You can find more of these conversations on our website artsably.com, 7 00:00:38,505 --> 00:00:43,977 which is spelled A-R-T-S-A-B-L-Y dot com. 8 00:00:44,978 --> 00:00:50,116 ♪ Theme music ♪ 9 00:00:57,357 --> 00:01:01,628 Today ArtsAbly is in conversation with Jessica Kenney, a non-binary 10 00:01:01,628 --> 00:01:05,064 disabled neurodivergent multimedia artist. 11 00:01:05,064 --> 00:01:09,602 You can find the resources mentioned by Jessica Kenney during this episode 12 00:01:09,602 --> 00:01:13,273 on ArtsAbly's website in the blog section. 13 00:01:14,607 --> 00:01:19,746 ♪ Jessica Kenney playing the flute ♪ 14 00:01:58,251 --> 00:02:03,389 ♪ Jessica Kenney playing the flute - End of excerpt ♪ 15 00:02:05,358 --> 00:02:10,096 Hello everybody, welcome to this new episode of ArtsAbly in Conversation. 16 00:02:10,096 --> 00:02:13,032 Today I am with Jessica Kenney. 17 00:02:13,032 --> 00:02:15,435 Thank you Jessica for joining us. 18 00:02:15,935 --> 00:02:23,276 And Jessica is a non-binary disabled neurodivergent multimedia artist, and 19 00:02:23,276 --> 00:02:31,951 doing a lot of different things from poetry to music to painting, sculpture, digital art. 20 00:02:31,951 --> 00:02:35,321 So, Jessica, welcome to this episode. 21 00:02:36,256 --> 00:02:37,924 Thank you for having me. 22 00:02:37,924 --> 00:02:43,096 So my name is Jessica Kenney, I'm a Fredericton-based artist, musician and poet. 23 00:02:43,096 --> 00:02:44,831 My pronouns are they/them. 24 00:02:45,365 --> 00:02:46,733 Thank you. 25 00:02:46,733 --> 00:02:52,372 So what brought you to the arts, what is your background, and 26 00:02:52,372 --> 00:02:56,009 what brought you to where you are artistically today? 27 00:02:56,409 --> 00:03:00,346 Well, I've been creating as long as I can remember, to be honest. 28 00:03:00,346 --> 00:03:03,950 I started playing piano at five. 29 00:03:03,950 --> 00:03:09,455 I really enjoyed, my grandparents had a piano in their house, and 30 00:03:09,455 --> 00:03:15,828 my mom used to play piano, so she showed me what she had learned. 31 00:03:15,828 --> 00:03:18,298 So that was really fun to learn from my mom. 32 00:03:18,398 --> 00:03:24,737 My mom also had autoharp, so it's like a - an autoharp is like a harp, but 33 00:03:24,737 --> 00:03:28,775 it has all these cool keys going across it, and there's felts on them. 34 00:03:28,775 --> 00:03:33,546 So what they do is they help you press the strings so that you can create chords. 35 00:03:34,047 --> 00:03:39,652 It's like a guitar, but a little simpler, a little bit smaller, you can kind of like hold it in your lap. 36 00:03:39,652 --> 00:03:45,592 So we'd often, my mom loved to sing, so she would sing, and we'd sing with mom 37 00:03:45,592 --> 00:03:50,096 and we played autoharp with her, so it was fun, I learned a lot. 38 00:03:50,096 --> 00:03:56,903 I was always into art as a child, so I was creating a lot of times. 39 00:03:56,903 --> 00:04:02,508 I know it was a little hard for my mom, because she would often get frustrated 40 00:04:02,508 --> 00:04:05,778 with how quickly I could switch between things, because I was going through art 41 00:04:05,778 --> 00:04:10,049 and music, and I love reading, and I really love school, 42 00:04:10,049 --> 00:04:13,019 so I was really into that type of stuff. 43 00:04:13,019 --> 00:04:17,023 So it was hard for my mom to keep up with all my hobbies. 44 00:04:17,023 --> 00:04:19,092 I think I've carried that forward with me. 45 00:04:19,726 --> 00:04:23,363 It's still hard for my mom to keep up with my hobbies. 46 00:04:24,264 --> 00:04:26,266 So 47 00:04:26,899 --> 00:04:30,737 a lot of times, you know, you could find me like on weekends, 48 00:04:30,737 --> 00:04:36,075 I was a little obsessed with piano scales, so I was playing scales a lot, 49 00:04:36,075 --> 00:04:41,247 for a long time on piano, that was my thing, and it was exciting, 50 00:04:41,247 --> 00:04:47,654 and I later picked up recorder, because I wanted to play flute, but flute is - 51 00:04:47,654 --> 00:04:52,125 at the time, my family didn't really have the economical means to 52 00:04:52,125 --> 00:04:55,295 get me into flute, so I played recorder, because I thought, you know, 53 00:04:55,295 --> 00:04:57,864 there's got to be some transferable skills there. 54 00:04:57,864 --> 00:05:02,135 I know after high school, I kind of moved on to college. 55 00:05:02,135 --> 00:05:06,305 I wanted to follow my passion, which was art. 56 00:05:06,305 --> 00:05:09,909 I still love music, but I had kind of, 57 00:05:09,909 --> 00:05:14,947 it kind of slipped away from me for a little while, because I was focusing on the art side of things. 58 00:05:14,947 --> 00:05:21,454 I'd fallen in love with just the expression of, and magic of hand-drawn animation. 59 00:05:21,454 --> 00:05:24,924 I went to school for animation. 60 00:05:24,924 --> 00:05:30,596 I actually have two college diplomas, so I went for 3D, so like video game, 61 00:05:30,596 --> 00:05:35,868 computer graphics type of stuff, and back in 2008, it was exciting. 62 00:05:35,868 --> 00:05:39,505 I really liked it, but I really loved hand-drawn. 63 00:05:39,672 --> 00:05:44,711 We spent, I think, the first six months of college doing hand-drawn animation, 64 00:05:44,711 --> 00:05:49,382 and I was so happy, so I learned so much about illustration. 65 00:05:49,382 --> 00:05:58,491 We did a lot of figure drawing, and I ended up having, 66 00:05:58,491 --> 00:06:03,129 basically once I had finished college, I decided I wanted to pursue a career in animation. 67 00:06:03,129 --> 00:06:05,598 It was everything for me for a long time. 68 00:06:05,698 --> 00:06:12,004 Like, I just - the expression of it was so, like there's so much going on, 69 00:06:12,004 --> 00:06:14,674 and that was very appealing to me, 70 00:06:14,674 --> 00:06:17,810 because there's, you know, you're moving things, 71 00:06:17,810 --> 00:06:23,416 you're expressing and acting in animation, like in character animation. 72 00:06:23,416 --> 00:06:28,888 I later got into effects animation, because explosions and stuff, that was fun. 73 00:06:28,888 --> 00:06:35,061 So you can do like explosions, or water, or like sparkly stuff, like anything, 74 00:06:35,061 --> 00:06:40,066 and it's just the joy of creating in animation was really there for me. 75 00:06:40,066 --> 00:06:42,335 I ended up - 76 00:06:42,335 --> 00:06:46,572 Life kind of decided I needed to take a different path, and I ended up 77 00:06:46,572 --> 00:06:52,011 and I ended up with fibromyalgia and PTSD after a car accident. 78 00:06:52,011 --> 00:06:56,949 So sometimes life throws curveballs. 79 00:06:56,949 --> 00:07:02,255 I ended up struggling with managing my disabilities for a long time, and 80 00:07:02,255 --> 00:07:05,758 I had to learn to take care of myself, and it was hard, 81 00:07:05,758 --> 00:07:10,263 and I didn't really have the space to create for a really long time. 82 00:07:10,263 --> 00:07:18,371 It took me a long time to get back to being able to sit down and do anything creative. 83 00:07:18,371 --> 00:07:25,178 I lost my artistic voice for a long time, and I actually fully stopped creating for a number of years. 84 00:07:25,178 --> 00:07:30,783 Over time, I learned how to embrace the chaos in my life and find new ways to manage. 85 00:07:30,783 --> 00:07:35,354 I got some answers as well, on top of the PTSD and the fibro. 86 00:07:35,354 --> 00:07:38,357 I learned that I had ADHD. 87 00:07:38,357 --> 00:07:43,129 ADHD is something that you have your whole life. You don't just acquire it, but 88 00:07:43,129 --> 00:07:50,136 I learned that I had had ADHD this whole time, which explains why I couldn't finish projects and 89 00:07:50,136 --> 00:07:55,842 the many hobbies, and 90 00:07:55,842 --> 00:07:58,244 that helped a lot. 91 00:07:58,244 --> 00:08:04,383 In 2020, actually on Halloween, I picked up flute, 92 00:08:04,383 --> 00:08:07,320 and I'd always wanted to play flute, so I thought, 93 00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:10,189 you know what? If not now, when? I was 30. 94 00:08:10,189 --> 00:08:14,427 I was just like, what's stopping me at this point? 95 00:08:14,427 --> 00:08:17,630 I needed to pick that up, and I did. 96 00:08:17,630 --> 00:08:24,370 During that time, I also got some other health diagnosis, and I wasn't coping very well. 97 00:08:24,370 --> 00:08:28,541 I felt like at the time, I felt like I had enough to deal with, 98 00:08:28,541 --> 00:08:32,445 and why did I need something new to think about? 99 00:08:32,445 --> 00:08:37,850 So I was a little unhappy, but 100 00:08:37,850 --> 00:08:42,288 at that point, all I ended up doing was actually playing flute for a really long time, 101 00:08:42,288 --> 00:08:49,395 just so I could cope well, because I was having trouble. 102 00:08:50,963 --> 00:08:57,770 When you have a lot going on, sometimes it's upsetting, and that way, 103 00:08:57,770 --> 00:09:01,941 that was all I could do for probably about six months at one point, 104 00:09:01,941 --> 00:09:05,111 I just sat in my living room and played flute for six months. 105 00:09:05,111 --> 00:09:11,617 As a side effect, I got quite good at flute, so that's the silver lining. 106 00:09:11,817 --> 00:09:16,389 At that point, that takes us to about 2021. 107 00:09:16,389 --> 00:09:21,460 I had met Ysabelle Vautour in 2021. 108 00:09:21,460 --> 00:09:26,232 We'd met at a show that she had at Charlotte Street Arts Center, 109 00:09:26,232 --> 00:09:29,268 and she'd encouraged me to start creating again, 110 00:09:29,268 --> 00:09:34,707 because I hadn't picked up illustration in a really long time. 111 00:09:34,707 --> 00:09:39,345 It's hard to get back into illustration, because when you stop for a long time, 112 00:09:39,345 --> 00:09:42,949 as with anything, even music, your skills, 113 00:09:42,949 --> 00:09:45,084 they're still there, they're just dormant. 114 00:09:45,084 --> 00:09:51,457 You have to put the practice in to bring them back and make them vibrant again. 115 00:09:51,457 --> 00:09:54,226 I look at it as tarnish. 116 00:09:54,226 --> 00:09:58,097 Everything is a flute reference for me. I look at it like tarnish. 117 00:09:58,097 --> 00:10:01,067 If you have you flute out, it tarnishes. 118 00:10:01,067 --> 00:10:03,936 It's normal, actually, it's a chemical reaction, 119 00:10:03,936 --> 00:10:09,442 but it's just like our skills. Sometimes our skills, they tarnish. 120 00:10:09,442 --> 00:10:13,012 It's easy. We just have to pick them back up and shine them back up 121 00:10:13,012 --> 00:10:14,647 or live with the tarnish. 122 00:10:14,647 --> 00:10:18,718 Because tarnish is aesthetic, it doesn't affect how it works. 123 00:10:18,718 --> 00:10:20,686 I think it's a good reference. 124 00:10:20,686 --> 00:10:22,688 Yeah. 125 00:10:22,688 --> 00:10:24,490 So, yeah, 2021. 126 00:10:24,490 --> 00:10:27,660 Ysabel was like, hey, you should try creating again. 127 00:10:27,660 --> 00:10:29,929 I was like, cool, okay. 128 00:10:29,929 --> 00:10:31,564 So I did. 129 00:10:31,564 --> 00:10:35,501 We ended up doing a mentorship together in 2022. 130 00:10:35,501 --> 00:10:39,005 We were collaborating a lot. 131 00:10:39,005 --> 00:10:41,707 We were creatively enabling each other. 132 00:10:41,707 --> 00:10:46,979 Ysabel had done the residency with the Botanical Gardens here in Fredericton. 133 00:10:46,979 --> 00:10:52,585 We worked on a collaborative piece with textile painting. 134 00:10:52,585 --> 00:10:55,354 That was cool. Ysabel did the layout 135 00:10:55,354 --> 00:11:02,261 and I naively had said, oh, I want to hand sew this all. It shouldn't take very long. 136 00:11:02,261 --> 00:11:04,497 I learned a very hard lesson. 137 00:11:04,497 --> 00:11:06,799 We don't need glue! 138 00:11:07,033 --> 00:11:10,669 I did hand sew it. It took a couple of months. 139 00:11:10,669 --> 00:11:17,643 And I definitely learned some stuff that I want to do next time I do that. 140 00:11:17,643 --> 00:11:19,645 But it turned out beautifully. 141 00:11:19,645 --> 00:11:21,681 The piece is called The Winding Path. 142 00:11:21,681 --> 00:11:23,449 It's on my Instagram. 143 00:11:23,449 --> 00:11:29,488 It's all these cool cotton batik pieces that have been laid out. 144 00:11:29,488 --> 00:11:33,459 And they're colorful and really cool in their designs. 145 00:11:33,459 --> 00:11:35,628 They're all different pieces of fabric. 146 00:11:35,628 --> 00:11:39,698 So I sewed them after we had together laid them out. 147 00:11:39,698 --> 00:11:43,069 And there's actually an intentional hole in the piece. 148 00:11:43,069 --> 00:11:44,904 It was intentional. 149 00:11:44,904 --> 00:11:50,409 Because the piece was about, you know, how sometimes, as people with disabilities, 150 00:11:50,409 --> 00:11:53,312 sometimes we're making our own path. 151 00:11:53,312 --> 00:11:55,314 And it can be winding. 152 00:11:55,314 --> 00:11:58,484 Because it's not always the straight line of, like, I'm doing this. 153 00:11:58,484 --> 00:12:01,520 And then I'm going to do that in a quick succession. 154 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:04,390 Sometimes we have to take our own time. 155 00:12:04,390 --> 00:12:12,264 Because it's not always as easy as it could be or as it should be. 156 00:12:12,531 --> 00:12:15,968 And I was I'm so proud of that piece. 157 00:12:16,769 --> 00:12:17,903 So, yeah. 158 00:12:18,003 --> 00:12:22,741 And during that mentorship that we did together as well, 159 00:12:22,741 --> 00:12:25,711 Ysabel really helped me learn how to navigate the art community. 160 00:12:25,711 --> 00:12:29,715 Because what I had been prepared for when I went to college 161 00:12:29,715 --> 00:12:32,885 was navigating the commercial art space. 162 00:12:32,885 --> 00:12:35,921 So navigating, like, how to work with the studio, 163 00:12:35,921 --> 00:12:39,992 how to work with other people in a studio on a TV show, 164 00:12:39,992 --> 00:12:45,764 or how to make a piece of a game and hand that off to a developer. 165 00:12:45,764 --> 00:12:47,700 So I was used to that. 166 00:12:47,700 --> 00:12:50,803 I was used to, like, okay, and that teamwork stuff is really good. 167 00:12:50,803 --> 00:12:54,039 Like, obviously, that has a place, and I had transferable skills. 168 00:12:54,039 --> 00:12:57,610 But the art community is different 169 00:12:57,610 --> 00:13:00,646 being a traditional artist. I do have traditional artist skills. 170 00:13:00,646 --> 00:13:05,551 I just didn't know how to navigate the spaces of, like, finding funding. 171 00:13:05,551 --> 00:13:09,221 Or, like, having a show. Or having a CV. 172 00:13:09,221 --> 00:13:11,290 Like, I had resumes. But I didn't have a CV. 173 00:13:11,290 --> 00:13:13,926 So I learned so much. 174 00:13:13,926 --> 00:13:19,064 And just kind of learned finding my place in the art community 175 00:13:19,064 --> 00:13:21,500 has been really fun and interesting. 176 00:13:21,500 --> 00:13:24,370 Because it's been very different for me. 177 00:13:24,436 --> 00:13:29,008 Because I've gone from being a very digital artist to completely moving to being 178 00:13:29,008 --> 00:13:32,511 a very traditional artist working with physical mediums. 179 00:13:32,511 --> 00:13:35,981 So it's been very different. 180 00:13:36,949 --> 00:13:43,322 The summer and fall of 2022, after the Botanical Gardens residency, 181 00:13:43,322 --> 00:13:46,892 Ysabel and I attended the Quiet Parade. 182 00:13:46,892 --> 00:13:49,562 We did a large project 183 00:13:49,562 --> 00:13:52,998 which was one of the bigger projects that I've done. 184 00:13:53,666 --> 00:13:58,137 We decided to make giant monarch butterfly wings. 185 00:13:58,137 --> 00:14:01,874 So we had some production issues because 186 00:14:01,874 --> 00:14:07,713 I originally wanted to paint on tulle, which is, like, a mesh netting with acrylic. 187 00:14:07,746 --> 00:14:09,982 It didn't work out the way that I anticipated. 188 00:14:09,982 --> 00:14:14,620 So we had done some samples. and it didn't turn out exactly how we wanted. 189 00:14:14,620 --> 00:14:19,592 So we improvised and we found plastic sheeting. 190 00:14:19,592 --> 00:14:23,495 and we learned that you can put gesso on plastic sheeting, 191 00:14:23,495 --> 00:14:25,364 which is cool. 192 00:14:25,364 --> 00:14:31,770 So we had these giant hand-painted wings on, like, wire and plastic. 193 00:14:31,770 --> 00:14:34,573 And so we were doing costume design. 194 00:14:34,573 --> 00:14:37,443 And also painting. 195 00:14:37,443 --> 00:14:39,445 And trying to... 196 00:14:39,445 --> 00:14:44,149 I needed to make several copies of the wings. 197 00:14:44,149 --> 00:14:46,151 And I needed them to be accurate. 198 00:14:46,151 --> 00:14:50,389 So it was difficult because I had to maintain... 199 00:14:50,723 --> 00:14:53,359 I had to find what was my original. 200 00:14:53,359 --> 00:14:55,427 And only trace off the original. 201 00:14:55,427 --> 00:14:56,862 So that I didn't have... 202 00:14:57,196 --> 00:15:00,399 Because when you trace things, you have... 203 00:15:00,399 --> 00:15:02,801 It's like artifacting. Like, you lose quality. 204 00:15:02,801 --> 00:15:04,470 It's like if you take a picture. 205 00:15:04,470 --> 00:15:06,772 And you keep just saving that same picture. 206 00:15:06,772 --> 00:15:07,506 And saving it. 207 00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:08,274 And saving it. 208 00:15:08,340 --> 00:15:09,675 It loses quality. 209 00:15:09,675 --> 00:15:11,243 It's like that with tracing, too. 210 00:15:11,243 --> 00:15:13,846 Believe it or not, if you're tracing your own work. 211 00:15:13,846 --> 00:15:16,982 and you're trying to make copies of your work by hand. 212 00:15:16,982 --> 00:15:18,817 You have to be really careful. 213 00:15:19,385 --> 00:15:22,688 So we couldn't actually fit these giant wings. 214 00:15:22,688 --> 00:15:24,423 We also made giant tutus. 215 00:15:24,423 --> 00:15:25,557 Which was awesome. 216 00:15:25,557 --> 00:15:26,725 Had a lot of tulle. 217 00:15:26,725 --> 00:15:29,128 Luckily, it was wedding season and there's used tulle. 218 00:15:29,128 --> 00:15:31,697 People buy it for, like, draping and stuff. 219 00:15:31,697 --> 00:15:33,299 And so I got a lot of used tulle. 220 00:15:33,299 --> 00:15:36,835 And we made these hand-sewn tutus on ribbon. 221 00:15:36,835 --> 00:15:37,970 It was awesome. 222 00:15:37,970 --> 00:15:42,141 But we couldn't fit the wings in my car when we were going to Halifax. 223 00:15:42,141 --> 00:15:46,445 And so we had very, like... 224 00:15:46,445 --> 00:15:50,716 Even my mom helped. My mom. 225 00:15:50,716 --> 00:15:54,386 We have pictures of my mom with the hair dryer out. 226 00:15:54,386 --> 00:16:00,125 Like, drying all these, like, sheets and sheets and sheets of monarch butterfly wings. 227 00:16:00,192 --> 00:16:03,329 And it was hilariously fun. 228 00:16:03,329 --> 00:16:05,197 But we couldn't fit them in my car 229 00:16:05,197 --> 00:16:08,267 so we ended up having to ship them flat without assembling them. 230 00:16:08,300 --> 00:16:10,669 So when we got to the hotel, we had to assemble these wings. 231 00:16:10,669 --> 00:16:14,840 And luckily, Ysabelle's spouse, Ramneet, was with us 232 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:19,445 and had the idea of - we should use the stapler! 233 00:16:19,445 --> 00:16:21,580 And it was such a good idea. 234 00:16:21,580 --> 00:16:25,551 It was so simple, but I was like, thank goodness! 235 00:16:25,551 --> 00:16:34,259 Because the way that I had thought that they would fit together didn't work. 236 00:16:34,259 --> 00:16:36,829 But the stapler was perfect, and you couldn't see it. 237 00:16:36,829 --> 00:16:39,965 So we were stapling late into the night. 238 00:16:39,965 --> 00:16:43,102 Luckily, the parade was rain dated 239 00:16:43,102 --> 00:16:45,537 and we went the next day. 240 00:16:45,537 --> 00:16:47,673 And things were assembled. 241 00:16:47,673 --> 00:16:49,942 And tutus had been sewn. 242 00:16:49,942 --> 00:16:52,010 And it was it was great. 243 00:16:52,010 --> 00:16:53,712 We actually had four pairs of wings 244 00:16:53,712 --> 00:17:00,386 because Ramneet, Ysabelle's spouse, and my spouse Samuel, had come with us 245 00:17:00,419 --> 00:17:04,356 and they had also dressed as butterflies with us. 246 00:17:04,356 --> 00:17:06,592 And we had... 247 00:17:06,592 --> 00:17:09,028 A full army of butterflies. 248 00:17:09,028 --> 00:17:10,429 There were four of us. 249 00:17:10,429 --> 00:17:12,531 It was quite the time. 250 00:17:12,531 --> 00:17:14,099 And Quiet Parade was so unique 251 00:17:14,099 --> 00:17:16,001 because it was accessible. 252 00:17:16,001 --> 00:17:18,737 It was a low sensory accessible parade. 253 00:17:18,737 --> 00:17:21,039 They even had like on... 254 00:17:21,039 --> 00:17:22,741 I can't remember exactly how they did. 255 00:17:22,808 --> 00:17:25,144 But on radio channels, they had like visual... 256 00:17:25,144 --> 00:17:26,545 they had description, 257 00:17:26,545 --> 00:17:27,846 they had audio description. 258 00:17:27,846 --> 00:17:30,549 You could hear the parade audio described. 259 00:17:30,549 --> 00:17:31,450 Which was cool. 260 00:17:31,450 --> 00:17:34,653 And they did have a band but they all had mutes in their instruments 261 00:17:34,653 --> 00:17:37,289 so they were playing very like piano. 262 00:17:37,289 --> 00:17:39,958 And it was so cool. 263 00:17:39,958 --> 00:17:43,328 And we had certain guidelines for design as well. 264 00:17:43,495 --> 00:17:49,168 So we weren't allowed to use certain materials and things like that. 265 00:17:49,168 --> 00:17:51,170 Because like it couldn't be too shiny. 266 00:17:51,170 --> 00:17:52,938 There couldn't be stuff that was really loud. 267 00:17:52,938 --> 00:17:54,773 Because it was a low sensory parade. 268 00:17:54,773 --> 00:17:59,344 Because parades are not always accessible for those of us with sensory needs. 269 00:17:59,344 --> 00:18:01,814 So I think it was so cool. 270 00:18:01,814 --> 00:18:07,753 And it's such a once-in-a-lifetime experience to be able to experience this 271 00:18:07,753 --> 00:18:10,088 and be part of it, and create that project. 272 00:18:10,088 --> 00:18:12,458 So I'm super proud of that. 273 00:18:12,458 --> 00:18:13,926 And it was so fun. 274 00:18:13,926 --> 00:18:17,162 I think Ysabel and I had a ball going. 275 00:18:17,162 --> 00:18:21,700 And it was a good experience. 276 00:18:22,534 --> 00:18:26,371 So that kind of takes me until 2023. 277 00:18:27,039 --> 00:18:32,811 In the fall, I actually did a residency with the Fredericton Arts Alliance in 2023. 278 00:18:32,811 --> 00:18:35,481 And so they're like a local art group. 279 00:18:35,481 --> 00:18:40,252 And they do provide like residency opportunities in the summer 280 00:18:40,252 --> 00:18:43,388 in the Casemates downtown in Fredericton. 281 00:18:43,388 --> 00:18:46,658 And I had decided to work on an installation 282 00:18:46,658 --> 00:18:48,227 because I hadn't done installation work. 283 00:18:48,227 --> 00:18:50,529 And I thought, you know what? I should do that. 284 00:18:50,529 --> 00:18:53,165 Why not? How hard could it be? 285 00:18:53,632 --> 00:18:56,702 And I have no fear. 286 00:18:56,702 --> 00:18:59,605 I only realize when I get into it how big things are. 287 00:18:59,605 --> 00:19:01,607 And 288 00:19:01,740 --> 00:19:03,275 But it was very fun. 289 00:19:03,275 --> 00:19:06,845 So what I wanted to do was I was looking for this convergence of art and music. 290 00:19:06,845 --> 00:19:10,382 So that had started becoming a thing in my design increasingly. 291 00:19:10,382 --> 00:19:13,185 I was like, I have to do this convergence of art and music. 292 00:19:13,185 --> 00:19:14,887 They have to go together. 293 00:19:14,887 --> 00:19:16,922 There's got to be a way that this works. 294 00:19:16,922 --> 00:19:18,323 So I thought, how can I do this? 295 00:19:18,323 --> 00:19:20,659 And then I was like, oh, I do textile stuff still too. 296 00:19:20,659 --> 00:19:24,062 So I was like, I'm going to make a giant felt board. 297 00:19:24,062 --> 00:19:29,301 And I think, I can't remember if someone had sent me a picture of a cork board 298 00:19:29,301 --> 00:19:33,505 that was giant that someone had on Facebook Marketplace, or if I just found this thing. 299 00:19:33,505 --> 00:19:36,742 But there was this four foot by three foot cork board. 300 00:19:36,742 --> 00:19:40,946 And I thought, oh, I could make this into a felt board. 301 00:19:40,946 --> 00:19:45,017 So to the fabric store we went 302 00:19:45,017 --> 00:19:48,287 and got a lot of flannel 303 00:19:48,287 --> 00:19:50,923 and a lot of felt. 304 00:19:50,923 --> 00:19:57,195 And yeah, over the course of a week, I made an installation to do sheet music. 305 00:19:57,195 --> 00:20:01,433 So I have this four foot by three foot felt board 306 00:20:01,433 --> 00:20:04,503 and I stapled the flannel onto it. 307 00:20:04,503 --> 00:20:06,838 So it's white flannel. It's very, very soft. 308 00:20:06,838 --> 00:20:10,809 I had white pieces of actual felt. 309 00:20:10,809 --> 00:20:13,812 I chose not to get felt off the roll 310 00:20:13,812 --> 00:20:17,783 because it's really hard to cut straight lines 311 00:20:17,783 --> 00:20:21,019 and I didn't have tailor's chalk. 312 00:20:21,019 --> 00:20:25,791 And so I very badly needed to - 313 00:20:25,791 --> 00:20:27,926 Also, I wanted to have it so that it was scalable 314 00:20:27,926 --> 00:20:31,363 so like, if I had to send it somewhere where it needed a smaller board, 315 00:20:31,363 --> 00:20:33,899 because four foot by three foot is kind of large, 316 00:20:33,899 --> 00:20:35,767 that I could put it on a smaller board. 317 00:20:35,767 --> 00:20:39,871 or I could just have things set up individually or something like that. 318 00:20:39,905 --> 00:20:45,410 So I did all these little tiny sheets of, like, you can buy them. 319 00:20:45,410 --> 00:20:49,381 They're just cut out sheets. It's a little bit more expensive than buying off the roll. 320 00:20:49,381 --> 00:20:52,451 And then I had needle felted the staves, 321 00:20:52,517 --> 00:20:55,253 so the black lines that you see on music, 322 00:20:55,253 --> 00:20:59,291 onto these white pieces of felt. 323 00:20:59,291 --> 00:21:02,794 And Ysabel is actually my partner in the case. 324 00:21:02,794 --> 00:21:07,366 I actually had two partners. I had Ysabel and I had Laura Forrester. 325 00:21:07,366 --> 00:21:10,068 I think her last name was Forrester. 326 00:21:10,068 --> 00:21:14,339 But so I think we had, I had two artists with me that week, 327 00:21:14,339 --> 00:21:16,875 which was cool, because our theme was collaboration. 328 00:21:16,875 --> 00:21:21,880 Ysabel had suggested that instead of putting it portrait style 329 00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:23,915 I should put the felt board landscape. 330 00:21:23,915 --> 00:21:25,584 So we did that and it was perfect. 331 00:21:25,584 --> 00:21:27,886 So we could fit more sheet music on it 332 00:21:27,886 --> 00:21:36,762 and my spouse had helped me find a font to print out all these paper stencils 333 00:21:36,762 --> 00:21:39,531 for the sheet music and stuff. 334 00:21:39,531 --> 00:21:41,400 And that way it could be - 335 00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:43,502 Because I'm used to just doing it by hand. 336 00:21:43,502 --> 00:21:47,939 So I was going to put in Photoshop and get all my assets done by hand. 337 00:21:47,939 --> 00:21:51,543 And then this was, ended up being. 338 00:21:52,778 --> 00:21:56,148 He's a software developer so he's very precise. 339 00:21:56,148 --> 00:21:58,450 So he was like, well, if you do it this way, 340 00:21:58,450 --> 00:22:01,086 you can scale everything together 341 00:22:01,086 --> 00:22:05,223 and you can have it be more reproducible. And I was like, oh, I love this. 342 00:22:05,223 --> 00:22:10,328 So he put it in LaTeX was the program he used, 343 00:22:10,328 --> 00:22:14,433 and made it so that we could print all these things off. 344 00:22:14,499 --> 00:22:18,170 So I was hand weeding all my stencils out. 345 00:22:18,170 --> 00:22:22,474 And then I was pinning my stencils to black felt 346 00:22:22,474 --> 00:22:26,144 to get like music notes and rests and different things, 347 00:22:26,144 --> 00:22:28,280 and then hand weeding again. 348 00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:30,348 There was a lot of scissor mileage. 349 00:22:30,348 --> 00:22:34,119 And so I made giant sheet music. 350 00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:39,024 I learned so much. There's so much precision to written music 351 00:22:39,024 --> 00:22:45,397 that I think that unless you're writing it by hand, like we do tend to miss it. 352 00:22:45,731 --> 00:22:51,169 Like when you go above B, your notes turn over 353 00:22:51,203 --> 00:22:57,509 or like where like your whole rests and your half rests sit on the page. 354 00:22:57,509 --> 00:23:01,947 And things like that. There's so much precision that like I think we take for granted. 355 00:23:01,947 --> 00:23:04,783 because like reading music and writing it, 356 00:23:04,783 --> 00:23:08,386 like just physically writing it out are different. 357 00:23:08,386 --> 00:23:10,155 It's a different feeling. 358 00:23:10,155 --> 00:23:13,325 I wanted people to be able to kind of like connect with music too. 359 00:23:13,325 --> 00:23:16,128 That was the point of the project as well. 360 00:23:16,161 --> 00:23:19,831 Because I find, I know like when I show my mom my sheet music, 361 00:23:19,831 --> 00:23:23,068 she's like, Jess, that makes my eyes cross. It's really too complicated. 362 00:23:23,068 --> 00:23:25,470 And I'm like, oh, it's not that bad. 363 00:23:25,470 --> 00:23:27,372 I mean, I work with it all the time. 364 00:23:27,372 --> 00:23:29,574 So for me, it's not that scary. 365 00:23:29,574 --> 00:23:32,077 But I think when people see sheet music 366 00:23:32,077 --> 00:23:34,980 and they're like, it's a different language. 367 00:23:34,980 --> 00:23:36,615 It's very difficult. 368 00:23:36,615 --> 00:23:41,686 You know, we've been trained to read the alphabet alphabetically 369 00:23:41,686 --> 00:23:43,388 since we were really little. 370 00:23:43,388 --> 00:23:46,424 But if you're not trained to read music. 371 00:23:47,425 --> 00:23:50,495 It is a different language. It is hard. 372 00:23:51,730 --> 00:23:55,567 This is what I wanted to try to encourage people to do 373 00:23:55,567 --> 00:23:59,204 is have this kind of friendly, touchable thing 374 00:23:59,204 --> 00:24:02,274 that they could walk up to and touch and play. 375 00:24:02,274 --> 00:24:06,845 So that you don't need to necessarily understand how to read it. 376 00:24:06,845 --> 00:24:09,781 You can just introduce yourself to it 377 00:24:09,781 --> 00:24:11,049 and make something 378 00:24:11,049 --> 00:24:13,685 and maybe see some of the patterns that are there 379 00:24:13,685 --> 00:24:17,689 like, you know, just put notes on lines, or put notes on spaces 380 00:24:18,790 --> 00:24:20,826 and stuff like that. 381 00:24:20,826 --> 00:24:23,428 And kind of see some of the different elements. 382 00:24:23,428 --> 00:24:30,101 I hope what people are taking from that is not scary, it's just different. 383 00:24:31,069 --> 00:24:33,205 So that was the goal of that project. 384 00:24:33,205 --> 00:24:36,208 And it's been exhibited at a couple different places. 385 00:24:36,208 --> 00:24:38,310 So it was in Speaking Out 386 00:24:38,310 --> 00:24:41,546 which was a group exhibit last year. 387 00:24:41,546 --> 00:24:44,983 And it was in a group show recently, 388 00:24:44,983 --> 00:24:47,385 Bodies in Motion, which is a group show 389 00:24:47,385 --> 00:24:52,524 with Ysabel Vautour and Ramneet Kalra. 390 00:24:52,524 --> 00:24:55,060 So it was pretty cool. 391 00:24:55,060 --> 00:24:57,195 It was at the Provincial Archives, 392 00:24:57,195 --> 00:25:00,765 which the show just finished on the 3rd of June. 393 00:25:01,299 --> 00:25:03,235 Oh yeah, yesterday. 394 00:25:03,435 --> 00:25:04,436 Yeah, I know. 395 00:25:04,436 --> 00:25:06,505 I can't believe we're in June already. 396 00:25:08,006 --> 00:25:08,707 So. 397 00:25:09,241 --> 00:25:12,644 I have a question for you. It's going back - 398 00:25:12,644 --> 00:25:19,284 I love this idea of connecting the music to the other kind of arts. 399 00:25:19,284 --> 00:25:21,519 Because music is an art. 400 00:25:21,519 --> 00:25:26,491 But if you consider art as a broader view, 401 00:25:26,491 --> 00:25:28,593 you can connect all these things. 402 00:25:28,593 --> 00:25:36,601 And so you can even communicate a language that is not necessarily the written language of music. 403 00:25:36,601 --> 00:25:40,238 Or the art of cutting and pasting. 404 00:25:40,238 --> 00:25:41,806 Or the art of sewing. 405 00:25:41,806 --> 00:25:46,211 It's about the intersection of all that. 406 00:25:46,578 --> 00:25:47,746 Absolutely. 407 00:25:47,746 --> 00:25:52,817 I wonder too if the intersection of this all is expression. 408 00:25:52,817 --> 00:25:56,054 And this is what I've been moving towards in my thoughts. 409 00:25:56,054 --> 00:25:57,822 And I'm so happy you brought this up. 410 00:25:57,822 --> 00:26:00,592 Because this is what I've discovered. 411 00:26:00,992 --> 00:26:04,362 I was at a flute - 412 00:26:05,497 --> 00:26:09,434 I went to - During Catapult, 413 00:26:09,434 --> 00:26:12,837 It's an arts accelerator, it's art business classes. 414 00:26:13,672 --> 00:26:16,007 I was really grateful to be part of that. 415 00:26:16,007 --> 00:26:19,044 During my graduation weekend, 416 00:26:19,044 --> 00:26:23,181 for that I was also attending a flute conference 417 00:26:23,181 --> 00:26:25,383 because it was in the same city. 418 00:26:25,383 --> 00:26:30,622 And I was like well I have some time in between my last few classes with Catapult 419 00:26:30,622 --> 00:26:33,792 and these flute lessons, 420 00:26:33,792 --> 00:26:36,027 these flute classes that they are putting on. 421 00:26:36,027 --> 00:26:38,630 It was put on through Haynes, 422 00:26:38,630 --> 00:26:40,432 which is they're a flute maker, 423 00:26:40,432 --> 00:26:41,900 and Long & McQuaid. 424 00:26:41,900 --> 00:26:45,503 So they had put these classes on at Mount Allison, 425 00:26:45,503 --> 00:26:49,774 which was in the same place or very close to where we were in Dieppe 426 00:26:49,774 --> 00:26:54,646 to go see these flute classes 427 00:26:54,646 --> 00:26:57,415 and to do the Catapult graduation in Dieppe. 428 00:26:57,749 --> 00:27:01,186 And it hit me all of a sudden when I was at these flute classes 429 00:27:01,186 --> 00:27:06,324 and they were talking about, you know, all these different techniques, 430 00:27:06,324 --> 00:27:07,859 and expressions and things. 431 00:27:07,859 --> 00:27:11,162 I was like these people are painting with sound. 432 00:27:12,097 --> 00:27:19,270 Because I know for me I'm a lot more heavily based in visual arts. 433 00:27:19,270 --> 00:27:21,873 So I know a lot more about that. 434 00:27:21,873 --> 00:27:24,809 And music I'm mostly self-taught. 435 00:27:24,809 --> 00:27:26,544 I've only recently had lessons. 436 00:27:26,544 --> 00:27:31,182 So I don't know as much about it as I would love to know. 437 00:27:31,182 --> 00:27:33,084 But it hit me so hard. 438 00:27:33,084 --> 00:27:38,456 I'm like you know these people are painting with sound. 439 00:27:39,724 --> 00:27:43,461 And like in music we do talk about colour, right? We're talking about tone colour. 440 00:27:43,461 --> 00:27:47,565 And we're talking about different types of expression and things like that. 441 00:27:47,565 --> 00:27:52,270 So I found it really cool to like start making these connections 442 00:27:52,270 --> 00:27:56,241 between like art and music 443 00:27:56,241 --> 00:27:58,910 and tone colour, and colour and art. 444 00:27:59,511 --> 00:28:03,181 It's been so cool to see these connections. 445 00:28:03,181 --> 00:28:06,384 And this is my goal is like this is what I would love to share. 446 00:28:06,384 --> 00:28:08,653 Because I know for me too. 447 00:28:08,653 --> 00:28:11,589 Learning music has been hard sometimes 448 00:28:11,623 --> 00:28:14,592 because I learn differently. 449 00:28:14,592 --> 00:28:16,795 I have ADHD. 450 00:28:16,795 --> 00:28:20,231 Things are a little different for me sometimes when I'm learning. 451 00:28:20,231 --> 00:28:24,636 So where art and stuff I picked up really quickly. 452 00:28:25,904 --> 00:28:28,740 I don't pick up music as quickly. 453 00:28:28,740 --> 00:28:32,644 Like some stuff I do and some stuff I'm just kind of like okay. 454 00:28:32,644 --> 00:28:34,679 I have to think about this for a while. 455 00:28:34,679 --> 00:28:38,483 Yes but you chose the flute. 456 00:28:38,483 --> 00:28:42,520 And the thing with the flute is that - not in the right - 457 00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:48,560 It's a very good thing because the flute has a lot of vibration. 458 00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:49,594 It does. 459 00:28:49,594 --> 00:28:52,030 And when you play the flute it vibrates, 460 00:28:52,030 --> 00:28:54,732 it makes your whole body vibrate. 461 00:28:54,732 --> 00:28:59,871 And because you are working a lot with sensory cues and sensory things, 462 00:28:59,871 --> 00:29:01,906 the flute brings you that 463 00:29:01,906 --> 00:29:06,478 and can - in a way there is no good or right way to learn music. 464 00:29:06,478 --> 00:29:14,419 It's your own way to learn music and appreciate and grow into music. 465 00:29:14,419 --> 00:29:21,259 And so your way of learning is based on everything else that is artistic. 466 00:29:21,259 --> 00:29:26,131 The colour that you can associate to the sound. 467 00:29:26,131 --> 00:29:29,167 But also the whole - 468 00:29:29,167 --> 00:29:32,103 this small instrument which is the flute 469 00:29:32,103 --> 00:29:34,405 has this power to be - 470 00:29:34,405 --> 00:29:38,510 to make your body artistic, in a way, 471 00:29:38,510 --> 00:29:40,512 with the music. 472 00:29:40,745 --> 00:29:43,948 It's true and I know 473 00:29:45,283 --> 00:29:50,922 It really struck me when I first picked flute up after being away from music for many years. 474 00:29:50,922 --> 00:29:54,425 I played piano primarily when I was really young. 475 00:29:54,425 --> 00:29:59,631 I played piano up until about the end of high school, just casually. 476 00:29:59,631 --> 00:30:03,168 And it's different. 477 00:30:03,835 --> 00:30:08,206 Like I was describing to my music director at church, I had said to him, 478 00:30:08,206 --> 00:30:11,409 I was talking about scales on piano, I'm like, you know, they're laid out. 479 00:30:11,409 --> 00:30:13,077 It's laid out so nicely. 480 00:30:13,077 --> 00:30:14,679 And with piano, it's very visual. 481 00:30:15,713 --> 00:30:17,749 But with flute, it's so in the air. 482 00:30:17,749 --> 00:30:24,589 And I didn't mean it as a little joke, but at the same time, it's true. 483 00:30:24,656 --> 00:30:25,857 It's so in the air. 484 00:30:25,857 --> 00:30:27,492 You don't visualize it. 485 00:30:27,725 --> 00:30:32,063 And when I had first picked up flute, I forgot to buy music. 486 00:30:32,463 --> 00:30:37,402 And as we often do with ADHD, sometimes, you know, we go for the thing, 487 00:30:37,402 --> 00:30:40,205 and then we forget stuff on the list, and 488 00:30:40,205 --> 00:30:41,739 so I bought a finger chart 489 00:30:41,739 --> 00:30:43,741 and luckily I got the flute. 490 00:30:44,108 --> 00:30:47,478 But at the same time, I went home and I was like, oh, no. 491 00:30:47,545 --> 00:30:48,479 And it was during COVID. 492 00:30:48,479 --> 00:30:52,250 So I didn't want to just go back out and be like, oh, I gotta go buy music. 493 00:30:52,517 --> 00:30:55,086 So I sat with the finger chart for a really long time. 494 00:30:55,086 --> 00:30:58,523 And I was just like, well, I guess I'll just work on these fingerings 495 00:30:58,523 --> 00:31:00,358 so I can learn how to do fingerings. 496 00:31:00,358 --> 00:31:03,094 And I hadn't read music in so long. 497 00:31:03,361 --> 00:31:06,331 I didn't remember how to read music anymore. 498 00:31:06,331 --> 00:31:08,366 So I was like, I got to learn this again. 499 00:31:08,366 --> 00:31:09,934 This is the most important thing. 500 00:31:09,934 --> 00:31:15,940 Because I didn't want the frustration of having to think about reading music, 501 00:31:15,940 --> 00:31:20,478 and trying to play music, and trying to do fingerings, and trying to sit right 502 00:31:20,478 --> 00:31:23,114 and like all the things we do with an instrument, right? 503 00:31:23,114 --> 00:31:27,852 So I really felt like... 504 00:31:27,852 --> 00:31:31,456 I was thinking about it recently, because 505 00:31:31,456 --> 00:31:34,058 I play other instruments, too. 506 00:31:34,058 --> 00:31:36,628 You can't play just one. They're too much fun. 507 00:31:37,195 --> 00:31:39,897 So I recently picked up clarinet. 508 00:31:39,897 --> 00:31:44,335 And so sitting with the finger chart for clarinet, and I was thinking back 509 00:31:44,335 --> 00:31:46,237 about when I sat with the finger chart with flute. 510 00:31:46,304 --> 00:31:49,574 And I'm like, you know, it's like you're introducing yourself to it, 511 00:31:49,574 --> 00:31:51,843 or it's introducing itself to you. 512 00:31:51,843 --> 00:31:53,978 And you're learning how to work together. 513 00:31:53,978 --> 00:31:57,148 And like, because I know a flute, it's so second nature. 514 00:31:57,148 --> 00:32:02,053 It's so like, once you learn all the fingerings, it's so easy to associate them. 515 00:32:02,053 --> 00:32:06,324 It's so easy to have it feel connected in the way that you play. 516 00:32:06,858 --> 00:32:11,462 I don't have that experience with clarinet, because I haven't been playing that for very long. 517 00:32:11,462 --> 00:32:14,832 But I've only been playing it for a couple of months 518 00:32:14,832 --> 00:32:18,136 and I'm still... Fingerings are hard with clarinet. 519 00:32:18,136 --> 00:32:20,571 They're not very similar to flute. 520 00:32:20,571 --> 00:32:24,909 And so it's been, I'm experiencing that again 521 00:32:24,909 --> 00:32:30,915 and it's really made me think about kind of those processes and like learning processes. 522 00:32:30,915 --> 00:32:32,951 It's been really cool. 523 00:32:33,017 --> 00:32:34,018 Wow. 524 00:32:34,018 --> 00:32:40,191 So piano, flute, clarinet, autoharp. 525 00:32:41,292 --> 00:32:44,896 I also... I dabble in piccolo. 526 00:32:44,896 --> 00:32:47,699 I was getting into viola 527 00:32:47,699 --> 00:32:53,304 but I found, I casually play viola and violin here and there. 528 00:32:53,304 --> 00:32:56,307 I don't - they're harder to play. 529 00:32:56,307 --> 00:32:58,376 I do better with wind instruments. 530 00:32:58,376 --> 00:33:02,947 I find strings are, as sometimes as much as we want to do something, 531 00:33:02,947 --> 00:33:05,316 it's okay to just keep it as a fun thing. 532 00:33:05,316 --> 00:33:08,152 And that's what I'm doing with the string family right now. 533 00:33:08,152 --> 00:33:09,220 I love it. 534 00:33:09,253 --> 00:33:13,791 But it's a little bit more challenging for me than wind instruments. 535 00:33:13,791 --> 00:33:16,994 So I also played recorder in high school. 536 00:33:16,994 --> 00:33:22,166 I have alto recorder as well, here at home. 537 00:33:22,734 --> 00:33:26,404 Invite a full orchestra to play with you. 538 00:33:26,938 --> 00:33:27,739 I know. 539 00:33:28,239 --> 00:33:31,242 My mom's like, we have to get you cymbals for your knees. 540 00:33:31,242 --> 00:33:34,278 And then you can be like a one jazz band. 541 00:33:35,813 --> 00:33:38,649 There is something I read too. 542 00:33:38,649 --> 00:33:40,785 Are you also writing poetry? 543 00:33:41,119 --> 00:33:42,787 Yes, I am. 544 00:33:42,787 --> 00:33:45,223 I do write poetry. 545 00:33:45,223 --> 00:33:50,094 So it's definitely been interesting. 546 00:33:50,094 --> 00:33:52,196 I write a lot of free verse. 547 00:33:52,196 --> 00:33:56,834 I've got a little bit of published work in different things. 548 00:33:57,201 --> 00:34:02,974 So right now I'm writing a poetry book about the... 549 00:34:02,974 --> 00:34:05,209 I have it written down, actually. 550 00:34:05,209 --> 00:34:10,681 So I'm also illustrating it, about living on government assistance. 551 00:34:10,681 --> 00:34:19,590 So it's interesting because like I'm using imagery of like the seasons. 552 00:34:19,590 --> 00:34:23,094 So I'm calling it the chronic seasons of my life. 553 00:34:23,094 --> 00:34:26,898 And I'm talking about the lived experience of living on government assistance 554 00:34:26,898 --> 00:34:31,335 because I don't find people talk about that very often. 555 00:34:31,335 --> 00:34:35,573 Or they do and it's just within their own groups. 556 00:34:35,573 --> 00:34:39,377 And we need to start talking about these experiences 557 00:34:39,377 --> 00:34:45,983 because I feel like people think that people living on these different safety nets and assistances that 558 00:34:45,983 --> 00:34:53,124 the government provides, that they provide enough sustenance that people can get by easily. 559 00:34:53,124 --> 00:34:55,960 And that's not the case. 560 00:34:56,527 --> 00:35:01,899 It's very difficult. You know, people with disabilities often live in deep poverty. 561 00:35:01,899 --> 00:35:05,970 It's not an easy life. 562 00:35:05,970 --> 00:35:13,211 And it can make you very dependent on other people, like 563 00:35:13,211 --> 00:35:19,884 family and things like that, which is not inherently a bad thing, but it can feel bad. 564 00:35:19,884 --> 00:35:23,821 It can feel difficult, especially when, you know, other people are 565 00:35:23,821 --> 00:35:28,126 hitting milestones in their life, like buying a house or buying a car 566 00:35:28,126 --> 00:35:31,662 doing all these exciting things that people do. 567 00:35:31,662 --> 00:35:37,235 But you're kind of like, well, I paid my bills for the month 568 00:35:37,235 --> 00:35:39,737 and I was able to buy food, which those are great. 569 00:35:39,804 --> 00:35:42,773 And that's important, but it's hard. 570 00:35:42,773 --> 00:35:50,014 It's hard because you're not able to be as involved in your community or in 571 00:35:50,014 --> 00:35:55,853 life itself because you just financially can't. 572 00:35:55,853 --> 00:36:02,894 So I feel like it's important to start a conversation about that. 573 00:36:03,494 --> 00:36:04,161 Yeah. 574 00:36:04,161 --> 00:36:06,364 So I'm trying to share, like, different things. 575 00:36:06,464 --> 00:36:08,799 Like, I've got a poem about, like, my cats 576 00:36:08,799 --> 00:36:12,270 and stuff like, my cats are my best friend 577 00:36:12,270 --> 00:36:14,939 because I know sometimes, like, we can feel very isolated. 578 00:36:14,939 --> 00:36:17,909 It's hard, especially, like, during COVID. 579 00:36:17,909 --> 00:36:22,280 A lot of us are immunocompromised and a lot of us are still isolating 580 00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:26,317 and because it's still there. 581 00:36:26,317 --> 00:36:31,188 Like, COVID is still there and we are still 582 00:36:31,188 --> 00:36:34,492 immunocompromised and it's difficult. 583 00:36:34,492 --> 00:36:37,862 There's still a danger to us and we have to do what's right for us. 584 00:36:37,862 --> 00:36:43,201 But it can be hard because it puts barriers in place for us to participate in 585 00:36:43,201 --> 00:36:48,673 community and to participate in, like, events and things like that. 586 00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:54,111 So, like, the poem about my cats is, like, you know, sometimes I feel really isolated. 587 00:36:54,111 --> 00:37:00,184 I'm home a lot, but I have cats and I also have rabbits and they're very sweet. 588 00:37:00,184 --> 00:37:05,856 And so I spend a lot of time with my pets and 589 00:37:05,856 --> 00:37:11,095 I just was talking about the poem, like, you know, sometimes I'm having a really hard time and then 590 00:37:11,095 --> 00:37:15,466 the cats will hop up and sometimes they'll sit on me or they'll, like, they'll purr and 591 00:37:15,466 --> 00:37:18,369 it's very sweet and, you know, they make you feel better. 592 00:37:18,502 --> 00:37:21,906 They really take your troubles away because you're like, oh, I have this little 593 00:37:21,906 --> 00:37:28,112 sweet cat and so you can pet them and they're soft and they're lovely. 594 00:37:28,112 --> 00:37:30,615 And so I could talk about cats forever. 595 00:37:30,615 --> 00:37:35,152 But so, yeah, so I'm trying to talk about, like, kind of the happy parts 596 00:37:35,152 --> 00:37:40,024 and also, like, the difficult parts like, you know, why do I have to live like this? 597 00:37:40,024 --> 00:37:44,495 It wasn't my fault. It wasn't my choice to be disabled. 598 00:37:46,430 --> 00:37:52,036 You know, being able-bodied is a temporary condition and disability is 599 00:37:52,036 --> 00:37:55,573 one of the few things in life that doesn't discriminate. 600 00:37:57,341 --> 00:38:00,778 So it's very hard. 601 00:38:01,479 --> 00:38:05,683 I've kind of been picking up the poetry and setting it down. 602 00:38:05,683 --> 00:38:08,919 So I've got about half finished. 603 00:38:09,086 --> 00:38:14,458 I'm hoping to finish probably next year, I think, is what I'm thinking. 604 00:38:14,625 --> 00:38:16,293 I'll generously say next year. 605 00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:19,964 It'll probably be a little longer because I've got to do my illustration. 606 00:38:21,432 --> 00:38:26,570 I'm hoping to do, I'm thinking about doing gouache and watercolour with that 607 00:38:26,570 --> 00:38:29,640 just because I like how they play together, I like how they layer, 608 00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:33,644 and I think I could get some really vibrant seasonal motifs going, 609 00:38:33,644 --> 00:38:36,280 especially with the gouache because it's so bright. 610 00:38:37,448 --> 00:38:40,551 But yeah, it's been interesting. 611 00:38:40,551 --> 00:38:43,921 It's hard going between mediums sometimes. 612 00:38:43,921 --> 00:38:48,159 Like, I've got this adjustable, I call it an adjustable art practice, 613 00:38:48,159 --> 00:38:51,395 because, like, I have to accommodate myself. 614 00:38:51,395 --> 00:38:54,932 I always have to think about... 615 00:38:54,932 --> 00:38:57,101 I like doing things, I like being busy. 616 00:38:57,101 --> 00:39:00,905 But it's hard because, like, especially with the fibro, I get tired. 617 00:39:00,905 --> 00:39:02,606 I get really, really tired. 618 00:39:02,606 --> 00:39:08,512 And sometimes I'm up for playing flute, sometimes I'm not. 619 00:39:08,512 --> 00:39:13,684 Like, I might be in too much pain to... it's hard because sometimes your hands 620 00:39:13,684 --> 00:39:18,089 get in pain and you're like, yeah, I can't do really precise stuff. 621 00:39:18,089 --> 00:39:23,094 Or like, you know, illustrating can be hard because, like, 622 00:39:23,094 --> 00:39:26,931 just even the thinking and the planning can be difficult. 623 00:39:26,931 --> 00:39:32,103 So, like, it depends how I'm feeling for what I'm doing. 624 00:39:32,103 --> 00:39:36,140 And it's also the ADHD, which makes it hard because, like, 625 00:39:36,140 --> 00:39:39,977 it's easy, it's very easy to want to do a lot of projects and balance between them. 626 00:39:39,977 --> 00:39:44,715 But it's really hard when you're like, I want to be doing this, but I can't. 627 00:39:44,849 --> 00:39:47,184 So it's like, but I want to be being creative. 628 00:39:47,284 --> 00:39:52,389 So, like, sometimes, like, on my worst days, often you'll just see me crocheting. 629 00:39:52,389 --> 00:39:54,525 Like, I crochet a lot. 630 00:39:55,393 --> 00:39:57,995 I make a lot of blankets. 631 00:39:57,995 --> 00:40:00,965 I can't follow a pattern, actually, with crocheting. 632 00:40:00,965 --> 00:40:02,566 I will fully admit that. 633 00:40:02,566 --> 00:40:04,535 I can. It's not that I can't. 634 00:40:04,535 --> 00:40:06,604 It's I choose not to. 635 00:40:06,904 --> 00:40:10,641 Because like my spouse had told me, Jess, some people follow a pattern because 636 00:40:10,641 --> 00:40:15,279 they're testing their skills and they like to follow the pattern, and it's very fun for them. 637 00:40:15,279 --> 00:40:17,414 But if it's not fun for you, don't do it. 638 00:40:17,414 --> 00:40:19,517 And I thought, that's great. That's good advice. 639 00:40:19,517 --> 00:40:21,318 And I love that. 640 00:40:21,318 --> 00:40:22,920 I feel less guilty now. 641 00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:27,091 So I make patterns on my own. 642 00:40:27,091 --> 00:40:28,526 I should write them down. 643 00:40:28,559 --> 00:40:31,262 So that when I pick up my projects, I don't have to - 644 00:40:31,262 --> 00:40:35,199 I sometimes have to take my projects to my mom and be like, can you read this? 645 00:40:35,199 --> 00:40:39,036 My mom also crochets and knits and she can look at a piece 646 00:40:39,036 --> 00:40:41,405 and, like, kind of read the crocheting. 647 00:40:41,405 --> 00:40:43,674 And I'm just like, that's wild. 648 00:40:43,674 --> 00:40:45,643 I can kind of do that, but not very well. 649 00:40:45,643 --> 00:40:46,911 Um, but my mom can. 650 00:40:46,911 --> 00:40:48,746 That's also another language, right? 651 00:40:48,746 --> 00:40:50,281 It is. It is. Oh gosh. 652 00:40:50,281 --> 00:40:53,217 When you see the patterns, um, it's, it's its own language as well. 653 00:40:53,217 --> 00:40:56,854 And there's, uh, some really fun eccentricities with that. 654 00:40:56,854 --> 00:40:59,390 Um, my mom knits and, and crochets. 655 00:40:59,390 --> 00:41:03,294 I can only crochet. I, uh, I tried to knit. 656 00:41:04,161 --> 00:41:08,432 And, uh, like I told my mom, my mom was like, as I was knitting, she's like, 657 00:41:08,432 --> 00:41:10,334 it just keeps getting tighter and tighter. 658 00:41:10,334 --> 00:41:12,069 I'm like, that's because I'm stressed. 659 00:41:12,069 --> 00:41:14,705 And she's like, if it makes you stressed, don't do it. 660 00:41:14,705 --> 00:41:17,575 And I'm like, that's a good advice. 661 00:41:17,575 --> 00:41:21,745 Um, um, and it's okay to not do one or the other. 662 00:41:21,779 --> 00:41:25,449 Like, um, I know a lot of people go back and forth, but I find, uh, 663 00:41:25,449 --> 00:41:27,117 crochet works really well for me. 664 00:41:27,117 --> 00:41:28,586 Cause like, it's just, it's so loopy. 665 00:41:28,586 --> 00:41:30,387 Everything connects really well, 666 00:41:30,387 --> 00:41:32,056 which is nice. 667 00:41:32,056 --> 00:41:35,893 So yeah, when I'm not well, I often crochet and I make my own patterns. 668 00:41:35,893 --> 00:41:38,262 I'm making a bag right now. 669 00:41:38,262 --> 00:41:41,999 Cause I was thinking about the beach, so I made a little beach bag out of cotton. 670 00:41:41,999 --> 00:41:47,004 And I often make blankets, but I try to not make blankets in the summer, 671 00:41:47,037 --> 00:41:52,776 because my - I'm on medication that makes it hard to 672 00:41:52,776 --> 00:41:55,412 temperature control, if that makes sense. 673 00:41:55,412 --> 00:41:58,849 Like I find I get hot really easy, but I don't realize it. 674 00:41:58,883 --> 00:42:00,417 And then I, and then I'll feel sick. 675 00:42:00,417 --> 00:42:03,921 So I'll be like covered in this like really lovely blanket that I'm crocheting. 676 00:42:03,954 --> 00:42:05,456 And then I'll be like, I don't feel good. 677 00:42:05,456 --> 00:42:07,925 And it's like, oh yeah, cause I'm too hot. 678 00:42:08,592 --> 00:42:12,530 That's the hazard of crocheting in the summer if you're doing blankets. 679 00:42:12,596 --> 00:42:14,565 So I try to keep it small and yeah. 680 00:42:14,698 --> 00:42:20,304 So on other days, like this past week I was painting 681 00:42:20,304 --> 00:42:22,673 and I haven't painted in a long time. 682 00:42:22,673 --> 00:42:27,578 So I did three paintings actually, um, which is really big. 683 00:42:27,578 --> 00:42:30,281 Cause usually I do about a painting every six months. 684 00:42:30,281 --> 00:42:32,683 So, um, so that was pretty big. 685 00:42:32,716 --> 00:42:34,218 I did abstract painting. 686 00:42:34,218 --> 00:42:39,657 I did a painting of a monarch as a practice painting and I made myself a sign. 687 00:42:39,657 --> 00:42:42,293 So I was pretty excited I'd made my own sign. 688 00:42:42,593 --> 00:42:45,296 What is your sign, what does it say? 689 00:42:45,396 --> 00:42:47,932 It says my name. It just says Jessica Kenney. 690 00:42:47,932 --> 00:42:51,168 And it has like a monarch wing on one side. 691 00:42:51,168 --> 00:42:54,371 And I did like a gradient of... 692 00:42:54,371 --> 00:42:58,542 I tried to really facilitate the sense of motion, 693 00:42:58,542 --> 00:43:01,278 through brushstrokes. 694 00:43:01,278 --> 00:43:06,583 So what I wanted to do was I took yellow and orange 695 00:43:06,583 --> 00:43:09,019 and I did like kind of a gradation. 696 00:43:09,019 --> 00:43:10,854 It looks a little bit like fire. 697 00:43:10,955 --> 00:43:17,695 I put a little bit of glitter paint in there, on the yellow paint to really make it kind of stand out. 698 00:43:17,695 --> 00:43:22,666 And in the bottom right-hand corner, I painted like a monarch wing. 699 00:43:22,666 --> 00:43:26,470 And then I wrote my name in black letters 700 00:43:26,470 --> 00:43:31,475 and my last name kind of went along the curve of the monarch wing. 701 00:43:31,475 --> 00:43:32,943 Nice. 702 00:43:32,943 --> 00:43:40,584 You know, I'm thinking with all these artistic skills that you have, 703 00:43:40,584 --> 00:43:46,323 do you sometimes like sit and think of all that, 704 00:43:46,323 --> 00:43:48,325 all that you do? 705 00:43:48,325 --> 00:43:54,531 And for me, it would be related to what it means for you 706 00:43:54,531 --> 00:43:58,335 to work in disability arts. 707 00:43:58,335 --> 00:44:08,012 Yeah, I do often like, I've found it hard to... 708 00:44:08,846 --> 00:44:15,452 When I first started getting into the art scene and applying for things, 709 00:44:15,452 --> 00:44:20,724 it's not that I learned hard lessons because, like, people were nice about things. They weren't like mean or anything, 710 00:44:20,724 --> 00:44:24,962 but I learned some lessons that 711 00:44:25,562 --> 00:44:27,464 I think differently. 712 00:44:27,464 --> 00:44:35,039 And so for me, what connects, I'm like, oh yeah, I sent these five pieces 713 00:44:35,039 --> 00:44:38,842 and they're like, okay, Jess, why is there a textile piece, a painting, 714 00:44:38,842 --> 00:44:42,913 an illustration and a sculpture? 715 00:44:42,913 --> 00:44:46,350 It's like, cause they're all the same colour. 716 00:44:46,917 --> 00:44:50,921 So for me, this is why they all related. 717 00:44:50,921 --> 00:44:54,792 They were all the same color, but it's like, it's a lot of times. 718 00:44:55,225 --> 00:45:02,166 So I had to try to work more in series because I don't think that way. 719 00:45:02,199 --> 00:45:09,473 I don't think about like, okay, so for me, I was, it was hard because I... 720 00:45:09,473 --> 00:45:11,642 the way I connect things is very different. 721 00:45:11,642 --> 00:45:14,845 So I kind of had to take a step back and be like, okay, how does, 722 00:45:14,845 --> 00:45:17,181 how does everyone think? 723 00:45:17,181 --> 00:45:20,317 Because if I'm thinking this way and it's not the same, 724 00:45:20,317 --> 00:45:22,719 how does everyone else think about these things? 725 00:45:22,753 --> 00:45:25,756 And how do I show, how do I support my proposal with my work 726 00:45:25,756 --> 00:45:28,959 and how do I keep the thread? 727 00:45:28,959 --> 00:45:31,128 You know what I mean? 728 00:45:31,595 --> 00:45:38,502 So, I found that a difficult efforts to try to, 729 00:45:40,003 --> 00:45:42,473 to try to 730 00:45:42,940 --> 00:45:45,476 keep making those connections, but also 731 00:45:45,476 --> 00:45:48,045 realize that other people didn't connect the same way. 732 00:45:48,045 --> 00:45:49,446 And that's okay. 733 00:45:49,446 --> 00:45:52,916 I just need to kind of learn how other people connect. 734 00:45:53,117 --> 00:45:56,854 And when I do my applications, I try to put that type of thinking cap on and be 735 00:45:56,854 --> 00:46:01,225 like, well, how would arts adjudicator 736 00:46:01,225 --> 00:46:05,362 be looking at this instead of how does Jess connect this? 737 00:46:05,362 --> 00:46:07,064 It's good to be unique, right? 738 00:46:07,131 --> 00:46:14,438 It's good to be, to have this, this little thing that nobody else has or this... 739 00:46:14,438 --> 00:46:19,009 In French you will say "fil conducteur," like this thread. 740 00:46:19,009 --> 00:46:22,713 You know, Picasso, he did a series of blues. That's right. 741 00:46:22,713 --> 00:46:26,583 I mean, there is nothing wrong about the fact to have 742 00:46:26,583 --> 00:46:29,553 a colour that connects all that. 743 00:46:29,553 --> 00:46:35,425 But one of the things that has to be learned in 744 00:46:35,425 --> 00:46:38,662 the writing of applications or things like that is 745 00:46:38,662 --> 00:46:43,500 how to make it sound special enough so that it will catch the eye 746 00:46:43,500 --> 00:46:47,404 of the person who's reading the file. 747 00:46:47,404 --> 00:46:48,839 And that's an art, right? 748 00:46:48,839 --> 00:46:52,509 That's... again, we were talking about different languages. 749 00:46:52,509 --> 00:46:57,948 This is another language and that's something we need to learn when we are applying to that, right? 750 00:46:57,948 --> 00:47:02,619 That's true, and I've learned so much and it's - 751 00:47:02,619 --> 00:47:04,855 it's definitely a different experience. 752 00:47:04,855 --> 00:47:10,694 And, you know, if I think when people are trying to get into learning that stuff, 753 00:47:10,694 --> 00:47:14,264 the best thing you can do is actually volunteer to sit on a jury 754 00:47:14,264 --> 00:47:20,070 because it lets you be part of your art community and it lets you 755 00:47:20,070 --> 00:47:22,773 kind of see the process behind the scenes. 756 00:47:22,773 --> 00:47:32,316 I know, what's been hard for me too about, kind of 757 00:47:32,316 --> 00:47:36,620 navigating these spaces is figuring out like what's successful to me and what's not. 758 00:47:36,620 --> 00:47:41,792 Like I, I don't get to participate in as many residence opportunities 759 00:47:41,792 --> 00:47:46,563 because a lot of them are outside and I don't do well with the heat. 760 00:47:46,563 --> 00:47:54,304 And I... so I just, I don't apply to them because it's just like, I 761 00:47:54,404 --> 00:47:56,773 I'm on medication that makes me really temperature sensitive. 762 00:47:56,773 --> 00:47:59,476 So I unfortunately have to be inside. 763 00:47:59,476 --> 00:48:04,915 But a lot of times with these residency opportunities, they're like, outside. 764 00:48:04,915 --> 00:48:07,618 That's like, it's okay, but... 765 00:48:07,618 --> 00:48:14,791 And it's okay for people who can, but yeah, not everyone can be outside and in the public or in the heat. 766 00:48:15,192 --> 00:48:18,695 So it's, I found that difficult. 767 00:48:18,695 --> 00:48:20,564 I understand that. Yeah. 768 00:48:20,731 --> 00:48:24,868 But it's important to recognize your own access needs 769 00:48:24,868 --> 00:48:29,406 and to have that integrated into your own process, right? 770 00:48:29,573 --> 00:48:35,178 Exactly. Like I mostly right now, I love that you're mentioning that because I... 771 00:48:35,178 --> 00:48:43,754 Whenever I do proposals, I actually try really hard to schedule time in for rest 772 00:48:43,754 --> 00:48:46,590 and stuff and make that part of my project 773 00:48:46,590 --> 00:48:48,992 because like, we don't talk about that enough. 774 00:48:48,992 --> 00:48:53,363 People don't talk about, okay, well, you know, I can do this in two months. 775 00:48:53,397 --> 00:48:57,668 Well, why when someone else can do it a month, it's like, well, you know what? 776 00:48:57,734 --> 00:49:01,104 I know that I have non-usable time, like non-functional time. 777 00:49:01,104 --> 00:49:04,541 There's rest, which is like, you're intentionally resting. 778 00:49:04,541 --> 00:49:08,845 And then there's time that's just not usable. 779 00:49:08,845 --> 00:49:12,716 And that's not rest, it's time where you're not feeling good enough to do anything. 780 00:49:12,716 --> 00:49:19,423 And that's, it's not that you're able to really rest during that time, so I find there's kind of a difference there 781 00:49:19,423 --> 00:49:23,293 and making sure that, you know, you're aware of 782 00:49:23,293 --> 00:49:26,096 like, I mean, we're usually pretty aware of our own needs 783 00:49:26,096 --> 00:49:32,536 and stuff like that, but putting that in your project and 784 00:49:32,536 --> 00:49:36,506 even if you're not necessarily seeing it in your project outline, 785 00:49:36,506 --> 00:49:41,912 but just having it be like, okay, well, I know that this is going to take me this long. 786 00:49:41,912 --> 00:49:46,783 So I might say two weeks instead of one week, because it's giving myself time 787 00:49:46,783 --> 00:49:52,155 and making sure that I can meet my deadlines, but not be sick and, 788 00:49:52,155 --> 00:49:56,626 or I can meet my deadlines and still be sick, but not overwork myself, 789 00:49:56,626 --> 00:50:00,230 especially with fibro, because, you know, I can flare you up so bad, 790 00:50:00,230 --> 00:50:05,001 especially if you push really hard and the stress can make it worse. 791 00:50:05,535 --> 00:50:09,740 So you can end up in this cycle of just being too stressed and getting sick 792 00:50:09,740 --> 00:50:13,944 and then being more stressed because now you can't meet your deadlines and then getting sicker. 793 00:50:13,944 --> 00:50:19,583 And it's hard, it's hard to come back from a flare up. 794 00:50:19,583 --> 00:50:23,019 You do, but it takes time. 795 00:50:23,286 --> 00:50:25,188 It does. Yes. 796 00:50:25,288 --> 00:50:26,523 Okay. Yeah. Thank you. 797 00:50:26,523 --> 00:50:28,625 That's all very good topics. 798 00:50:28,625 --> 00:50:31,795 It's really, as you say, it is not discussed enough. 799 00:50:31,795 --> 00:50:35,532 So I'm glad that you are mentioning all that. Thank you so much. 800 00:50:36,833 --> 00:50:41,104 I have a last question for you to end our conversation. 801 00:50:41,104 --> 00:50:47,844 It's about people who in your career as an artist have motivated you 802 00:50:47,844 --> 00:50:51,348 or inspired you, are present in your life. 803 00:50:51,348 --> 00:50:57,087 If you had a few names or one name to give, who would it be and why? 804 00:50:57,821 --> 00:51:03,126 Well, I know Ysabel's come up a lot throughout our conversation. 805 00:51:03,126 --> 00:51:08,532 Ysabel Vautour is a Fredericton artist and she really inspires me. 806 00:51:08,532 --> 00:51:12,836 I know she creates community and I think that's so important. 807 00:51:12,836 --> 00:51:16,440 She runs the New Brunswick Disability Art Collective. 808 00:51:16,940 --> 00:51:23,246 And it's a space for disabled artists in New Brunswick to kind of 809 00:51:23,246 --> 00:51:25,215 come together and communicate. 810 00:51:25,215 --> 00:51:26,950 We share art calls in the group. 811 00:51:26,950 --> 00:51:28,718 It's a Facebook group. 812 00:51:29,453 --> 00:51:35,325 So art calls are often shared and it's just a nice place for community. 813 00:51:35,325 --> 00:51:41,965 I love Ysabel's painting, because she's colour-blind and I, 814 00:51:41,965 --> 00:51:48,004 the way that she paints and uses colours is so cool because this is part of her story. 815 00:51:48,004 --> 00:51:52,909 I think it's neat to see how she sees differently 816 00:51:52,909 --> 00:51:57,481 and to see the colours that she sees or doesn't see in her work. 817 00:51:57,547 --> 00:51:59,950 And it's so cool. 818 00:52:00,117 --> 00:52:04,020 Well, you connect through colours, right? So it makes sense. 819 00:52:04,020 --> 00:52:07,057 I do. Colour is a big thing for me. 820 00:52:08,158 --> 00:52:11,862 Another artist I want to mention is Dr. Lea Pearson. 821 00:52:11,862 --> 00:52:17,000 She is from Music Without Pain. 822 00:52:17,000 --> 00:52:20,637 She is changing - 823 00:52:20,637 --> 00:52:26,443 She does body mapping for flute, which is really cool. 824 00:52:26,443 --> 00:52:31,848 And it's been a different way of thinking. 825 00:52:31,848 --> 00:52:37,153 I had a consultation with them a while ago because I, 826 00:52:37,153 --> 00:52:41,525 I have fibro and luckily, I don't have a lot of pain when I'm playing. 827 00:52:41,525 --> 00:52:44,194 but I wanted to have that conversation with someone and be like, 828 00:52:44,194 --> 00:52:49,266 how do I stay out of pain when I'm playing and what should I be thinking about? 829 00:52:49,699 --> 00:52:56,439 So I think what they're doing is so important because in... 830 00:52:56,439 --> 00:53:03,113 I don't have as much experience in music spaces, but I do feel like we don't talk about pain in music as much. 831 00:53:03,113 --> 00:53:09,386 And, you know, we're doing things that can cause like repetitive stress injuries or things like that. 832 00:53:09,386 --> 00:53:13,523 Like we're using our hands in ways that are complicated 833 00:53:13,523 --> 00:53:18,128 and we're using our bodies in ways that, you know, we're becoming one with an instrument 834 00:53:18,128 --> 00:53:20,030 and that's, it's not without risk. 835 00:53:20,030 --> 00:53:26,136 So it's important to be careful and to know as much as we can about staying safe. 836 00:53:26,136 --> 00:53:33,143 So they've, I've learned a lot from them, from reading their book and 837 00:53:33,143 --> 00:53:39,683 from the consultation I had and it's been really cool to learn more. 838 00:53:40,517 --> 00:53:43,086 Oh yeah. Okay. That's great. 839 00:53:43,086 --> 00:53:45,522 I have to have a look. 840 00:53:46,323 --> 00:53:47,390 Absolutely. 841 00:53:47,390 --> 00:53:50,794 Okay. Thank you so much for all that 842 00:53:50,794 --> 00:53:57,300 and all the best for all your future applications and your creative process, which is fantastic. 843 00:53:57,300 --> 00:53:59,636 Really continue doing that, right? 844 00:53:59,636 --> 00:54:06,776 It is really important to keep connecting with all your skills and put them out there. 845 00:54:07,043 --> 00:54:10,981 Thank you for having me. I really appreciate the opportunity. 846 00:54:11,114 --> 00:54:14,084 Thank you. And so have a fantastic day, 847 00:54:14,084 --> 00:54:16,920 and maybe see you around with some arts. 848 00:54:17,787 --> 00:54:18,955 Definitely. 849 00:54:19,289 --> 00:54:20,757 Have a good day. 850 00:54:20,757 --> 00:54:21,891 You too. 851 00:54:23,827 --> 00:54:28,965 ♪ Closing theme music ♪