1 00:00:01,267 --> 00:00:06,406 ♪ Opening theme music ♪ 2 00:00:13,747 --> 00:00:18,051 Hello, and welcome to this episode of ArtsAbly in Conversation. 3 00:00:18,051 --> 00:00:19,953 My name is Diane Kolin. 4 00:00:20,186 --> 00:00:24,491 This series presents artists, academics, and project leaders 5 00:00:24,491 --> 00:00:27,160 who dedicate their time and energy 6 00:00:27,193 --> 00:00:31,831 to a better accessibility for people with disabilities in the arts. 7 00:00:31,831 --> 00:00:35,368 You can find more of these conversations on our website, 8 00:00:35,368 --> 00:00:42,075 artsably.com, which is spelled A-R-T-S-A-B-L-Y dot com 9 00:00:42,942 --> 00:00:48,081 ♪ Theme music ♪ 10 00:00:55,321 --> 00:00:58,525 Today, ArtSably is in conversation with Robin Han, 11 00:00:58,525 --> 00:01:04,230 a Soprano opera singer from Vancouver who is also a disability advocate. 12 00:01:04,264 --> 00:01:08,268 You can find the resources mentioned by Robin Han during this episode 13 00:01:08,268 --> 00:01:13,239 on ArtsAbly's website in the blog section. 14 00:01:16,776 --> 00:01:22,515 (Translation) I must go - it's necessary! For his sake! 15 00:01:22,782 --> 00:01:31,090 My poor knight! Oh yes, it's him I love. 16 00:01:31,324 --> 00:01:36,763 And yet, I hesitate today. 17 00:01:38,498 --> 00:01:48,074 No, no! I'm no longer worthy of him. 18 00:01:50,410 --> 00:01:58,785 I hear that voice that draws me against my will: 19 00:01:59,252 --> 00:02:13,032 "Manon, you'll be a queen - queen by your beauty!" 20 00:02:17,237 --> 00:02:27,480 I'm nothing but weakness and fragility. 21 00:02:28,615 --> 00:02:39,392 Ah! Despite myself, I feel my tears flowing 22 00:02:39,459 --> 00:02:46,032 at these erased dreams! 23 00:02:46,165 --> 00:02:53,907 Will the future have the charms 24 00:02:54,140 --> 00:03:07,687 of the beautiful days gone by? 25 00:03:14,394 --> 00:03:22,735 Goodbye, our little table 26 00:03:23,269 --> 00:03:29,275 that united us so often. 27 00:03:29,809 --> 00:03:41,688 Goodbye, our little table 28 00:03:42,255 --> 00:03:49,896 which seemed so large for us! 29 00:03:50,964 --> 00:03:55,868 Honestly, it's unimaginable - 30 00:03:56,169 --> 00:04:07,814 so little space when we embraced... 31 00:04:07,947 --> 00:04:17,790 Goodbye, our little table! 32 00:04:18,157 --> 00:04:24,197 We shared the same glass - 33 00:04:25,298 --> 00:04:29,869 both of us, when we drank from it, 34 00:04:30,370 --> 00:04:35,875 would search for each other's lips... 35 00:04:36,476 --> 00:04:49,322 Ah! Poor friend, how he loved me! 36 00:04:50,290 --> 00:05:00,633 Goodbye, our little table. 37 00:05:02,702 --> 00:05:07,974 Goodbye! 38 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:17,183 Okay, thank you very much, Robin, for being here today. 39 00:05:17,216 --> 00:05:20,353 Thank you so much for having It's an honor to be here. 40 00:05:20,386 --> 00:05:22,422 I am with Robin Han, 41 00:05:22,455 --> 00:05:26,993 who is in Vancouver right now and who is a soprano, 42 00:05:27,026 --> 00:05:32,665 and many, many other things we are going to discover today, including vocal coach 43 00:05:32,699 --> 00:05:39,005 and, of course, opera singer, and a lot of different things. 44 00:05:39,005 --> 00:05:44,077 I will first ask you to present yourself a little bit, who you are, 45 00:05:44,110 --> 00:05:47,714 your background, and also provide a visual description. Thanks. 46 00:05:47,714 --> 00:05:49,248 Absolutely. 47 00:05:49,849 --> 00:05:54,854 Well, hi. My name is Robin Han. My pronouns are she/they. 48 00:05:55,722 --> 00:06:02,662 I'm a white femme person with brown hair and high femme fashion sense. 49 00:06:02,795 --> 00:06:07,133 I'm a disabled opera singer, stage director, vocal coach, and content creator, 50 00:06:07,133 --> 00:06:11,037 living and working on the unseated occupied lands of the Musqueam, Squamish, 51 00:06:11,070 --> 00:06:16,008 and Tsleil-Waututh peoples in what is colonially known as Vancouver. 52 00:06:17,143 --> 00:06:22,648 I have Hypermobile Ehlers-Danlos syndrome, a genetic connective tissue disorder. 53 00:06:22,648 --> 00:06:28,454 For that, I use silver ring splints on my hands for 54 00:06:28,454 --> 00:06:33,192 support, and I often walk around with a very sparkly cane. 55 00:06:34,727 --> 00:06:36,996 It's a very nice cane. 56 00:06:37,029 --> 00:06:38,965 Thank you so much. 57 00:06:38,965 --> 00:06:40,800 Then, of course, it just fell all over everything. 58 00:06:40,833 --> 00:06:44,103 I very often say about mobility aids: 59 00:06:44,103 --> 00:06:48,007 you know, they I don't have to be ugly to work. 60 00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:51,411 If I get to be a little bit more, you know, glamorous 61 00:06:51,444 --> 00:06:58,618 and get to match my mobility aid to my outfit, then so much the better. 62 00:06:58,651 --> 00:07:02,622 Do you know about the singer Lachi, who is an American singer? 63 00:07:02,655 --> 00:07:05,892 She's blind and she's a Latina singer. 64 00:07:05,892 --> 00:07:11,597 She is also a fashion nerd, and she has 65 00:07:11,631 --> 00:07:14,434 a cane that is totally glittery with lots of things. 66 00:07:14,467 --> 00:07:17,537 Her cane match her outfit all the time. 67 00:07:17,570 --> 00:07:19,272 So have a look. I love it. 68 00:07:19,305 --> 00:07:20,072 I will. 69 00:07:20,072 --> 00:07:25,845 I have a small collection of walking sticks, and I match them to my outfit. 70 00:07:25,845 --> 00:07:27,213 They all have different names because, 71 00:07:27,213 --> 00:07:29,182 of course, they do, because I'm an opera singer. 72 00:07:29,215 --> 00:07:32,385 I had to make it extra. 73 00:07:32,385 --> 00:07:38,524 This one right here, the one that matches the outfit I'm currently wearing. 74 00:07:38,558 --> 00:07:44,463 Her name is Elsa, I think, for obvious reasons, for those who are watching. 75 00:07:44,463 --> 00:07:51,170 It's an ice blue with an ombre to white sparkles. 76 00:07:51,204 --> 00:07:51,904 Yeah. 77 00:07:51,904 --> 00:07:55,541 Elsa, it couldn't have been anything else is her name. 78 00:07:55,575 --> 00:07:57,009 Very nice. 79 00:07:57,043 --> 00:08:02,548 Where did you grow up and what was your musical education? 80 00:08:02,715 --> 00:08:04,317 Sure. I grew up here. 81 00:08:04,350 --> 00:08:08,955 I grew up in Vancouver, and I became an opera singer entirely by accident. 82 00:08:08,988 --> 00:08:12,525 I have always been a storyteller. 83 00:08:12,558 --> 00:08:14,827 That was always true of me from a very young age. 84 00:08:14,861 --> 00:08:19,532 I first started as a dancer, which is pretty common, actually, 85 00:08:19,565 --> 00:08:24,370 for people with my condition, with hypermobility, because certainly 86 00:08:24,403 --> 00:08:30,276 when you're a child, in particular, you often have very few other symptoms, 87 00:08:30,309 --> 00:08:33,279 aside from being weirdly flexible, so you end up in dance. 88 00:08:33,312 --> 00:08:40,786 I was a ballet dancer very seriously starting from a very young age. 89 00:08:40,820 --> 00:08:47,293 Then from there, I started doing theater and film, I became an actor, 90 00:08:47,326 --> 00:08:56,869 and I, as a child, was in a few TV shows and movies. 91 00:08:56,903 --> 00:09:01,140 Then I started doing musical theater, 92 00:09:01,173 --> 00:09:08,281 summer camp, the way that so many little theater kids like I was would do. 93 00:09:08,314 --> 00:09:12,184 I started taking voice lessons. 94 00:09:12,518 --> 00:09:17,723 I took voice lessons with a wonderful, super supportive opera teacher. 95 00:09:17,757 --> 00:09:22,862 And by the time I was about 16, so about six years after I had started 96 00:09:22,862 --> 00:09:28,367 taking voice lessons, I just looked around and I went, I guess I sing opera now? 97 00:09:28,401 --> 00:09:30,303 When did that happen? 98 00:09:30,736 --> 00:09:32,271 It just sort of happened to me. 99 00:09:32,305 --> 00:09:36,008 It snuck up on me, and the rest is history. 100 00:09:36,042 --> 00:09:44,417 I then went to University of Manitoba for about one year for opera, and then I 101 00:09:44,450 --> 00:09:47,053 started getting a more practical education. 102 00:09:47,053 --> 00:09:48,020 I was on stage a lot. 103 00:09:48,054 --> 00:09:54,126 I really made it my business to just get on stages and develop my craft that way. 104 00:09:54,160 --> 00:10:01,200 I was lucky enough to be able to call it my job. 105 00:10:01,701 --> 00:10:03,202 Very good. 106 00:10:03,202 --> 00:10:05,504 You're with a company or you are just 107 00:10:05,538 --> 00:10:09,775 an independent opera singer who is going from here to here? 108 00:10:09,809 --> 00:10:12,278 I am an independent opera singer. 109 00:10:12,311 --> 00:10:15,815 That said, I am also a co founder of Opera Mariposa, 110 00:10:15,848 --> 00:10:20,786 which is Canada's first disability-led and run opera company. 111 00:10:21,620 --> 00:10:25,758 I co-founded it over 10 years ago now. 112 00:10:25,791 --> 00:10:28,361 I think it's been about 12 years, 113 00:10:28,394 --> 00:10:34,400 which while I practice my art 114 00:10:34,433 --> 00:10:42,375 in lots of different companies, all across Canada and in Europe as well, 115 00:10:42,408 --> 00:10:48,214 I wouldn't be able to make my as accessible to me 116 00:10:48,247 --> 00:10:54,787 as it is without the support that was built through my work with Mariposa. 117 00:10:54,820 --> 00:10:58,691 I'm really, really grateful to have been a part of that. 118 00:10:58,724 --> 00:11:03,062 My life would not be the thing that it is right now without 119 00:11:03,062 --> 00:11:09,435 having built such a community of disabled artists through Mariposa. 120 00:11:09,468 --> 00:11:11,470 When did Mariposa start? 121 00:11:11,504 --> 00:11:13,105 Ten years ago? 122 00:11:13,305 --> 00:11:15,541 I think almost 12 now. I think that was it. 123 00:11:15,574 --> 00:11:20,746 I I think we just noticed the 12th anniversary going by. 124 00:11:20,946 --> 00:11:23,082 Who's the other co founder? 125 00:11:23,115 --> 00:11:24,683 Jacqueline Ko. 126 00:11:24,717 --> 00:11:26,852 She and I co founded it. 127 00:11:26,886 --> 00:11:32,024 Just taking a drive around one day. 128 00:11:32,024 --> 00:11:36,595 Then with the support of Stephanie Ko as well, 129 00:11:36,629 --> 00:11:44,537 we built one of the things that I'm the proudest of that we've ever done. 130 00:11:44,570 --> 00:11:47,840 It's been a It's a blessing to be a part of. 131 00:11:47,873 --> 00:11:50,543 You're doing regular shows with that company? 132 00:11:50,576 --> 00:11:52,011 How does it work? 133 00:11:52,044 --> 00:11:54,880 Right now, no, because 134 00:11:54,914 --> 00:12:00,319 most members of Mariposa are very immunocompromised and are 135 00:12:00,352 --> 00:12:04,023 still sheltering from COVID and are not doing any live productions. 136 00:12:04,023 --> 00:12:07,093 That said, we have been creating online 137 00:12:07,126 --> 00:12:09,595 content since the beginning of the pandemic. 138 00:12:09,628 --> 00:12:19,538 The pandemic is ongoing and we believe that immuno inclusivity is access. 139 00:12:19,572 --> 00:12:29,682 We're making new systems by which people can make immuno-inclusive operatic art. 140 00:12:29,715 --> 00:12:31,117 There are lots We have 141 00:12:31,150 --> 00:12:36,755 videos that go up every year, particularly as part of Mariposa's May fundraiser. 142 00:12:36,822 --> 00:12:44,330 We're working on maybe some larger works behind the scenes, slow and steady. 143 00:12:44,363 --> 00:12:46,232 But yeah, and in the meantime, 144 00:12:46,265 --> 00:12:55,941 I've been lucky enough to be able to make more art elsewhere around as well. 145 00:12:55,975 --> 00:13:00,479 You are also a voice coach, a voice teacher? 146 00:13:00,479 --> 00:13:07,119 Yes. I have a wonderful studio of artists I love. 147 00:13:07,153 --> 00:13:11,757 I teach entirely online. Again, it's an access measure, 148 00:13:11,757 --> 00:13:15,227 not just for myself, but for my students as well. 149 00:13:15,261 --> 00:13:18,430 Most of my students are young adults or adults, 150 00:13:18,430 --> 00:13:21,534 some of whom just want to sing for joy, 151 00:13:21,567 --> 00:13:26,739 some of whom really want to be able to do this opera thing very seriously. 152 00:13:26,739 --> 00:13:34,046 But the thing that I discovered, again, I didn't really choose this, 153 00:13:34,079 --> 00:13:40,052 was that I guess as a person who is so open about my disability in the arts 154 00:13:40,085 --> 00:13:46,525 and in the classical music world, I also then attract a lot of disabled students. 155 00:13:46,559 --> 00:13:49,261 About half my studio 156 00:13:49,295 --> 00:13:55,501 has some form of disability, and we make learning how to sing more accessible, too, 157 00:13:55,534 --> 00:13:59,939 because a lot of the barriers to the operatic world or the classical 158 00:13:59,972 --> 00:14:04,443 music world, or even adjust to music more generally, start at the beginning, 159 00:14:04,443 --> 00:14:11,083 start at access to education and access to learning technique. 160 00:14:11,083 --> 00:14:15,688 I know of a lot of studios where in the past, people have been 161 00:14:16,255 --> 00:14:17,690 sort of 162 00:14:17,690 --> 00:14:22,628 told, maybe not in so many words, but have been told in the past that maybe 163 00:14:22,661 --> 00:14:30,436 if you're not able to get to every lesson because 164 00:14:30,469 --> 00:14:34,573 your health is not allowing you to do that, that then implies that you're 165 00:14:34,607 --> 00:14:38,143 somehow not working hard enough, which is, of course, not true. 166 00:14:38,143 --> 00:14:41,080 That's not how it works at all. 167 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:43,082 So yeah, I've been... 168 00:14:44,083 --> 00:14:47,453 My focus on disability in the arts 169 00:14:47,486 --> 00:14:51,257 has really permeated into every single artistic thing that I do. 170 00:14:51,290 --> 00:14:56,328 I became really passionate about creating an accessible place for people to learn 171 00:14:56,362 --> 00:14:59,798 healthy technique and to learn to get to know their voices 172 00:14:59,832 --> 00:15:05,404 because the voice is so much a part of our identity for so many people. 173 00:15:07,706 --> 00:15:14,847 Embracing the voice and embracing the expression that that can be - and even 174 00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:21,720 just embracing the amount of noise a human is capable of creating, 175 00:15:21,754 --> 00:15:29,194 gives anyone who does it, but disabled people in particular, I find 176 00:15:29,628 --> 00:15:35,701 a real sense of identity and of belonging in one's own body. 177 00:15:36,302 --> 00:15:38,804 So, yeah, I find it really important and cool. 178 00:15:38,804 --> 00:15:42,207 Again, I'm really honored to be a part of that because 179 00:15:42,641 --> 00:15:49,715 I get to be a part of people's growth and acceptance every day. 180 00:15:49,748 --> 00:15:51,483 So what's the name of the studio 181 00:15:51,483 --> 00:15:54,787 and are you accepting new students? [Laughs.] 182 00:15:54,787 --> 00:15:59,958 It's a very creatively named studio, the Robin Han Vocal Studio. 183 00:15:59,992 --> 00:16:03,762 Oh, how deeply creative name. 184 00:16:03,796 --> 00:16:06,565 I do constantly accept new students, 185 00:16:06,565 --> 00:16:11,904 but I always have a caveat, and that is I'm a freelance artist. 186 00:16:11,904 --> 00:16:14,707 Sometimes the schedule gets a little bit wonky, but 187 00:16:14,707 --> 00:16:22,014 I do have space, technically, when I'm not in rehearsal. 188 00:16:22,147 --> 00:16:27,553 You also told me that you spent some time in Germany. 189 00:16:27,586 --> 00:16:29,154 Yes, I did. 190 00:16:29,188 --> 00:16:33,158 I was pursuing the sort of more traditional operatic career 191 00:16:33,158 --> 00:16:37,062 over in Germany because a lot of Canadian operatic artists 192 00:16:37,062 --> 00:16:42,301 will know that that's often a place that you go to try to build your career 193 00:16:42,334 --> 00:16:50,342 and become a "serious opera artist" because, oh, look at those wonderful balloons that 194 00:16:50,342 --> 00:16:54,913 light up whenever you make a hand gesture and max now. 195 00:16:54,947 --> 00:17:01,487 Anyway, so I went and lived in Berlin for about two years and I was 196 00:17:01,487 --> 00:17:08,560 singing across Germany and throughout Europe. 197 00:17:08,994 --> 00:17:13,799 But that was actually as I was discovering my body's limitations, 198 00:17:13,832 --> 00:17:19,671 I had always imagined that I was "the healthy one" in my circles. 199 00:17:19,905 --> 00:17:24,510 That was an identity marker for me. 200 00:17:24,643 --> 00:17:27,613 But I had already been experiencing some 201 00:17:27,646 --> 00:17:33,318 symptoms of my genetic disability at that time, but I always just dismissed them. 202 00:17:33,352 --> 00:17:36,455 I said, Oh, my body's just a little weird. Right? 203 00:17:37,256 --> 00:17:42,594 But while I was trying to build this career in Germany, 204 00:17:42,628 --> 00:17:48,834 and that career requires a lot of personal hustle and really takes - 205 00:17:50,135 --> 00:17:53,472 takes belief in that sort of hustle culture and takes the... 206 00:17:53,472 --> 00:17:59,711 And not just belief, but the ability to push yourself really, really hard to do, 207 00:18:00,179 --> 00:18:03,415 my body just wasn't able to keep up, really. 208 00:18:03,449 --> 00:18:06,552 That was where I really noticed, Oh, my body is not actually 209 00:18:06,552 --> 00:18:09,621 doing what I am demanding of it. 210 00:18:09,655 --> 00:18:15,227 At the time, I was in my mid to late 20s. 211 00:18:15,260 --> 00:18:19,932 I really should have had my body been healthy. 212 00:18:19,965 --> 00:18:25,437 And I remember, like... 213 00:18:26,472 --> 00:18:30,342 episodes where I was just lying on my kitchen floor because I'm unable to get up 214 00:18:30,342 --> 00:18:34,179 and feeling really ill and not actually noticing that I had then caught 215 00:18:34,213 --> 00:18:39,918 something else because my baseline had been to feel so ill. 216 00:18:39,952 --> 00:18:45,657 I had some real health struggles there, and it really threw into sharp relief. 217 00:18:45,691 --> 00:18:49,728 Oh, this may not be a thing that I can do. 218 00:18:49,761 --> 00:18:52,297 I may not be able to 219 00:18:54,433 --> 00:19:01,273 sustain this career in the way that I have been told is required for an opera singer. 220 00:19:01,306 --> 00:19:06,178 Because a lot of the messaging, at least in the places that I 221 00:19:06,378 --> 00:19:11,283 spent some time in, in the operatic world, sort of tell you - 222 00:19:11,283 --> 00:19:17,890 again, maybe not in so many words, but tell you maybe unconsciously, 223 00:19:17,923 --> 00:19:22,694 that the only valid way to have an operatic career is to do this step, 224 00:19:22,694 --> 00:19:27,099 and then this step, and then this step, and then this step, and then tada. 225 00:19:27,132 --> 00:19:34,239 If you do those accurately or correctly enough, you will pop out a success. 226 00:19:34,273 --> 00:19:39,211 And first of all, that's not how anything works, no. 227 00:19:39,244 --> 00:19:45,751 But just attempting to follow those steps was just something my body couldn't do. 228 00:19:46,618 --> 00:19:53,792 And the messaging that said that if you don't do that or if you don't succeed at that, 229 00:19:53,825 --> 00:19:57,629 it's because you are less than in some capacity. 230 00:19:57,663 --> 00:20:00,999 You may be less than as an artist. 231 00:20:01,767 --> 00:20:04,570 That was wrong and backwards 232 00:20:04,603 --> 00:20:10,342 because I was finding the beginnings of some success in Germany. 233 00:20:10,342 --> 00:20:15,180 And I knew I had something to share with the world and that I was - 234 00:20:16,315 --> 00:20:21,653 that I really wanted to, but my body couldn't take it. 235 00:20:21,687 --> 00:20:25,691 I wasn't able to pack up my entire life 236 00:20:25,691 --> 00:20:30,162 and stick it in a suitcase and take that suitcase over 237 00:20:30,195 --> 00:20:34,266 cobbled streets to go from one audition to the next. 238 00:20:35,534 --> 00:20:37,669 I wasn't able to sleep on long haul busses. 239 00:20:37,703 --> 00:20:45,477 I wasn't able to, you know, keep up in any real way. 240 00:20:45,477 --> 00:20:52,985 And I made the, at the time, very sort of painful decision to let it go. 241 00:20:53,018 --> 00:21:01,259 And you grieve the life, of course, that you've imagined for yourself. 242 00:21:01,393 --> 00:21:05,998 You grieve the loss of that previous dream. 243 00:21:06,031 --> 00:21:12,037 But in the end, most grief 244 00:21:12,070 --> 00:21:18,944 is something that you are able to move with and eventually, hopefully, through. 245 00:21:18,977 --> 00:21:23,081 I was able to discover a version 246 00:21:23,115 --> 00:21:26,451 of an operatic and artistic and performance career that 247 00:21:26,485 --> 00:21:32,190 was more modular and that suits my dynamic disability a little better. 248 00:21:32,224 --> 00:21:37,863 I've become freelance here in Canada, which sure, maybe there is 249 00:21:37,863 --> 00:21:43,001 less of an operatic culture here in Canada than there is in Germany. 250 00:21:43,035 --> 00:21:49,174 But I've been truly privileged to be able to create something out of 251 00:21:49,574 --> 00:21:55,947 my love for storytelling in the performing arts spaces. 252 00:21:58,984 --> 00:22:02,087 In so doing, discovered that 253 00:22:02,120 --> 00:22:06,625 there was never anything wrong with that idea in the first place. 254 00:22:08,593 --> 00:22:13,765 But as a storyteller, you also did something very good 255 00:22:13,799 --> 00:22:20,272 it's to create content. You have a YouTube channel where you post a lot of videos 256 00:22:20,305 --> 00:22:24,242 where you talk about what it is to be a disabled singer, 257 00:22:24,276 --> 00:22:29,815 what it is to be an opera singer, is opera boring, things like that. 258 00:22:29,848 --> 00:22:32,584 It's true. 259 00:22:32,584 --> 00:22:39,224 As part of that the process of discovering my new self as a disabled 260 00:22:39,224 --> 00:22:43,829 artist, as opposed to just the random artist next door that I had 261 00:22:43,862 --> 00:22:50,802 thought I was when I began my career, I ran up against so many spaces where 262 00:22:50,836 --> 00:22:57,476 there was not even just misinformation about how disability might work 263 00:22:57,509 --> 00:23:02,080 in the operatic world, but a lack of information at all. 264 00:23:02,114 --> 00:23:04,516 To be disabled in opera is often to feel 265 00:23:04,549 --> 00:23:09,554 very isolated as though you're the only one. 266 00:23:09,588 --> 00:23:13,658 When, of course, we're not. 267 00:23:13,692 --> 00:23:16,762 The disabled artist have always been here 268 00:23:16,795 --> 00:23:20,098 in the operatic world, and will continue to be here. 269 00:23:20,132 --> 00:23:22,334 The more that we can, 270 00:23:22,367 --> 00:23:27,639 as an operatic sector, embrace that and acknowledge that 271 00:23:27,672 --> 00:23:33,378 and move forward with access in mind I think that's how you not only future-proof 272 00:23:33,412 --> 00:23:41,319 opera, but you can create a space where the operatic artist feels 273 00:23:41,353 --> 00:23:46,992 less isolated and where people coming in to opera 274 00:23:47,025 --> 00:23:50,729 know that there may be space for them in the end. 275 00:23:50,762 --> 00:23:52,564 I felt like it was really important 276 00:23:52,564 --> 00:23:58,336 to start talking about it because I am so lucky as to be able to talk about it. 277 00:23:58,370 --> 00:24:04,376 Because, again, there is such a lack of 278 00:24:04,676 --> 00:24:10,015 an atmosphere within opera that even acknowledges that disabled opera artists 279 00:24:10,015 --> 00:24:15,187 could exist, which, of course, again, of course we exist. 280 00:24:15,220 --> 00:24:19,357 But yeah, I felt like it was really important because 281 00:24:20,859 --> 00:24:27,299 I'm so lucky as to have been able to build an accessible operatic career for me, 282 00:24:27,332 --> 00:24:31,102 whereas so many other artists I know whose work is phenomenal, 283 00:24:31,136 --> 00:24:35,640 whose voices would have been so valuable to the operatic world, 284 00:24:35,674 --> 00:24:40,879 ended up having to leave it due to inaccessibility. 285 00:24:41,112 --> 00:24:45,750 I feel like it's such an immense privilege that I have within the operatic world be 286 00:24:45,784 --> 00:24:51,723 able to build a career that I had to use it, you know. 287 00:24:51,756 --> 00:24:55,560 Because I'm one of the very few 288 00:24:55,594 --> 00:25:01,533 operatic artists out there right now who are able to be out about disability 289 00:25:01,566 --> 00:25:04,636 because so many people are really in the closet about it. 290 00:25:04,669 --> 00:25:11,276 I use that analogy very consciously because you really do. 291 00:25:11,309 --> 00:25:15,881 I'm a queer, disabled opera singer. 292 00:25:15,914 --> 00:25:19,751 Coming out as queer is one coming out process, 293 00:25:19,751 --> 00:25:24,422 and you have to come out again as disabled because there's so much pressure 294 00:25:24,422 --> 00:25:30,528 in the operatic world to "appear healthy" 295 00:25:30,562 --> 00:25:39,538 that people dealing with health issues, people living with dynamic disabilities or 296 00:25:39,571 --> 00:25:46,278 disability writ large often feel like they can't speak about it at all. 297 00:25:46,945 --> 00:25:48,947 So I... 298 00:25:49,614 --> 00:25:54,786 As soon as I realized what I sort of had in my life, 299 00:25:54,786 --> 00:25:59,524 that I had this beautiful space that was accessible, that was 300 00:26:02,394 --> 00:26:06,398 a stable way for me to have an operatic career. 301 00:26:06,431 --> 00:26:07,532 I felt like I had to share it. 302 00:26:07,566 --> 00:26:09,401 It feels like my duty. 303 00:26:09,434 --> 00:26:13,872 Of course, you get to be - YouTube and Instagram, you get to be silly, too. 304 00:26:13,905 --> 00:26:15,874 That's always a bonus. 305 00:26:15,907 --> 00:26:17,709 That's what I was going to say. 306 00:26:17,742 --> 00:26:23,315 It's not only interesting content, it's funny content, it's touching content. 307 00:26:23,348 --> 00:26:28,987 I really recommend everybody to go and have a look at your 308 00:26:29,020 --> 00:26:32,657 YouTube channel because there are some important questions, too. 309 00:26:32,691 --> 00:26:35,927 I love - one of my favorite videos. 310 00:26:35,961 --> 00:26:37,963 I mean, I love them all! But 311 00:26:37,963 --> 00:26:43,602 I love the video where you are talking with Jacqueline Ko 312 00:26:43,602 --> 00:26:47,038 because you're talking about so many many different aspects 313 00:26:47,038 --> 00:26:55,013 of teaching and learning and being an artist with a disability. 314 00:26:55,013 --> 00:26:58,683 One of the things that I noted because I really liked it 315 00:26:58,683 --> 00:27:04,022 is when you were talking about teaching and learning as a teacher and as a student, 316 00:27:04,022 --> 00:27:07,692 and you said, if you have a teacher who is willing to - 317 00:27:07,726 --> 00:27:13,365 who is not willing to give you the space that you need, then you have the wrong teacher. 318 00:27:13,398 --> 00:27:15,700 Find another teacher. It's not your fault, it's not - 319 00:27:15,700 --> 00:27:18,536 But find another teacher, 320 00:27:18,536 --> 00:27:21,172 find someone who will respect that space. 321 00:27:21,206 --> 00:27:25,677 Then Jacqueline Ko said, If you are a singer and have students 322 00:27:25,710 --> 00:27:29,114 with disability, then be prepared to be creative. 323 00:27:29,147 --> 00:27:31,683 And I 100% agree. 324 00:27:31,683 --> 00:27:35,420 It's so important, and it's great to hear that. 325 00:27:35,453 --> 00:27:36,888 It's so true. 326 00:27:36,921 --> 00:27:45,363 One of the things that we think about a lot as a company, too, 327 00:27:45,397 --> 00:27:49,801 through Mariposa, is that we think about how 328 00:27:50,402 --> 00:27:52,103 access means different things for different people, 329 00:27:52,103 --> 00:28:01,479 that there is no one way to be accessible because people's needs are all different. 330 00:28:02,113 --> 00:28:07,852 Those needs are basic and yet are treated like luxuries. 331 00:28:07,886 --> 00:28:09,721 They're not. 332 00:28:09,754 --> 00:28:13,224 Creating space for everyone means creating space for everyone. 333 00:28:13,258 --> 00:28:19,698 It is okay to not have thought of this type of thing before. 334 00:28:19,731 --> 00:28:21,366 We're always learning. 335 00:28:21,399 --> 00:28:25,303 We're always working to make spaces more accessible for more people. 336 00:28:25,336 --> 00:28:28,606 Then there will be the next person who comes in and you go, 337 00:28:28,606 --> 00:28:31,142 Oh, right! Oh, I didn't think about that. 338 00:28:31,142 --> 00:28:34,946 Maybe I can add that into my practice 339 00:28:34,979 --> 00:28:40,051 of making the arts more accessible for my students in this way in the future. 340 00:28:40,085 --> 00:28:44,355 And then, you know, maybe a year later, you'll have someone who needs the opposite thing, 341 00:28:44,355 --> 00:28:48,460 and they might be be a little bit, they might bump up against each other. 342 00:28:48,493 --> 00:28:50,962 They may be even opposing needs, but 343 00:28:50,962 --> 00:28:55,300 creativity is really required not just to be a creative person, 344 00:28:55,333 --> 00:29:01,439 not just to be an artist, but to help new people share an art, 345 00:29:01,473 --> 00:29:06,811 to find new ways to bring people into the art world, 346 00:29:06,811 --> 00:29:09,948 to make it accessible. There's no recipe. 347 00:29:09,981 --> 00:29:11,916 It's not like baking a cake 348 00:29:11,916 --> 00:29:15,019 where you throw in this amount of accessibility in this way, 349 00:29:15,019 --> 00:29:17,021 and this amount of accessibility in that way, 350 00:29:17,021 --> 00:29:21,726 and you suddenly bake it all up and you're done making it accessible. 351 00:29:21,759 --> 00:29:25,864 That's not how accessibility works. 352 00:29:25,864 --> 00:29:32,370 It's an immense privilege to be able to keep working on it, 353 00:29:32,370 --> 00:29:37,642 to keep working on finding a new way to be creative with your students and with your - 354 00:29:37,642 --> 00:29:42,080 or even with your rehearsal time, your rehearsal space. 355 00:29:42,380 --> 00:29:45,116 That's the beauty of inclusion. 356 00:29:45,116 --> 00:29:49,721 Yeah, in academic, we call it crip time. [Laughs.] 357 00:29:49,721 --> 00:29:51,289 Yes. Oh, yeah. 358 00:29:51,322 --> 00:29:54,225 I recently posted a post on Instagram 359 00:29:54,225 --> 00:29:56,694 because I do quite a bit of this work on Instagram, too, 360 00:29:56,694 --> 00:29:59,664 because making a YouTube video takes a lot of time. 361 00:29:59,664 --> 00:30:02,667 When I have a lot of work going on, it just take - 362 00:30:03,001 --> 00:30:07,105 It'll take a while for my next video to come out. 363 00:30:07,338 --> 00:30:09,908 But I was posting a video on Instagram 364 00:30:09,908 --> 00:30:15,814 or a post on Instagram saying, Hey, for all my disabled artist friends, 365 00:30:16,214 --> 00:30:20,418 anonymously or not, let me know what you find is the biggest 366 00:30:20,451 --> 00:30:26,825 barrier to you to entry into the artistic spaces that you want to live in. 367 00:30:26,825 --> 00:30:31,362 I got quite a few responses from lots and lots of people, and lots of ways, 368 00:30:31,396 --> 00:30:36,034 but every single one in one way or another, boiled down to crip time. 369 00:30:36,868 --> 00:30:38,670 Every single one. 370 00:30:39,270 --> 00:30:42,340 And that was not just in the operatic world. 371 00:30:42,373 --> 00:30:45,143 That was in, you know, 372 00:30:45,143 --> 00:30:48,046 classical music, that was in visual arts too, 373 00:30:48,046 --> 00:30:52,483 that was in dance, in one way or another, 374 00:30:53,284 --> 00:30:59,791 every person who responded had a barrier to entry related to time. 375 00:31:00,592 --> 00:31:09,467 Related to time allotted to do things, related to time expected to be in space 376 00:31:09,500 --> 00:31:14,405 with other people or being in rehearsal or even just being perceived. 377 00:31:14,439 --> 00:31:17,709 It always to boiled down to that, and that's one of the things that 378 00:31:17,709 --> 00:31:21,846 I find organizations and/or larger administrations 379 00:31:21,846 --> 00:31:28,286 and larger - people in positions of power within the arts world 380 00:31:28,286 --> 00:31:34,425 might be less likely to think about when it comes to access. 381 00:31:34,592 --> 00:31:37,862 But fundamentally, it's the thing that seems to affect us all. 382 00:31:37,862 --> 00:31:43,768 How do you deal with your own crip time in your activities? 383 00:31:43,801 --> 00:31:45,703 Oh, wow. Well, I mean, 384 00:31:45,737 --> 00:31:49,774 I put everything in my schedule, and if it's not in my schedule, it doesn't exist. 385 00:31:49,874 --> 00:31:51,709 Just doesn't happen. 386 00:31:51,743 --> 00:31:57,949 I have to plan my season very, very carefully. 387 00:31:57,982 --> 00:32:03,621 I have to plan how I teach and when I teach very, very carefully. 388 00:32:03,655 --> 00:32:06,357 For example, if it's happening before 389 00:32:06,391 --> 00:32:10,762 11:00 AM and I have any other show that I'm doing, I can't do it. 390 00:32:10,795 --> 00:32:12,263 I can't do it. 391 00:32:12,397 --> 00:32:19,203 If I attempt to get out of bed for that, my body will not do it. 392 00:32:19,237 --> 00:32:20,605 I will be horizontal. 393 00:32:20,638 --> 00:32:23,908 I don't get a say. 394 00:32:25,143 --> 00:32:27,578 So I do a lot of balancing of, 395 00:32:27,612 --> 00:32:31,683 okay, if my rehearsals for this show are on this day, 396 00:32:31,716 --> 00:32:36,988 how much time do I have between the end of that and me getting home and me 397 00:32:36,988 --> 00:32:42,894 winding down and my being able to function the next day? 398 00:32:42,927 --> 00:32:46,097 And it doesn't always work out because a dynamic disability 399 00:32:46,097 --> 00:32:48,633 is a dynamic disability. It's not math. 400 00:32:48,633 --> 00:32:53,705 You don't input this amount of scheduling and get out this amount of energy. 401 00:32:53,738 --> 00:32:56,341 Sometimes you 402 00:32:56,874 --> 00:33:03,481 stand up in the morning and your body says, or not, and you go back to bed. 403 00:33:03,514 --> 00:33:09,520 But a lot of very careful planning, a lot of breaks, certainly more than 404 00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:16,761 a lot of other companies would have put in. 405 00:33:16,761 --> 00:33:22,467 And really being able, being - 406 00:33:22,667 --> 00:33:25,903 again, in the very lucky position to be able to talk with the people that I'm 407 00:33:25,937 --> 00:33:31,709 making this collaborative art with and say, These are the things that I can't do. 408 00:33:31,743 --> 00:33:33,578 This is where my boundary is. 409 00:33:33,611 --> 00:33:36,647 This is where my capacity level currently is. 410 00:33:36,681 --> 00:33:42,420 Right now, I'm doing a whole bunch of shows at once, which is a lot. 411 00:33:42,453 --> 00:33:45,223 It's frankly too much, but I'm working on it. 412 00:33:45,256 --> 00:33:49,060 But I'm also in a position where I'm stage directing all of them 413 00:33:49,060 --> 00:33:51,729 because that's another thing that I do 414 00:33:51,729 --> 00:33:55,867 because that's my very dynamic career. 415 00:33:55,867 --> 00:34:00,972 When you get to be a stage director 416 00:34:01,005 --> 00:34:04,609 in a show, you get to set your rehearsal schedule. 417 00:34:04,642 --> 00:34:07,412 I set my rehearsal schedule very 418 00:34:07,445 --> 00:34:10,648 thoughtfully in a way that will work for me. 419 00:34:10,681 --> 00:34:13,785 They're spread out. 420 00:34:13,785 --> 00:34:16,921 The rehearsals are not too long. 421 00:34:16,954 --> 00:34:21,059 Rehearsals come with big breaks built in that, 422 00:34:21,092 --> 00:34:26,697 yes, there are equity-required breaks, but ones that I know will make it doable 423 00:34:26,731 --> 00:34:34,739 for me as well as for anyone else who might need the same in the cast and crew. 424 00:34:34,772 --> 00:34:43,014 I do a lot of directing so that I can make my own schedule, really. 425 00:34:43,047 --> 00:34:46,751 Then when I am performing, well, 426 00:34:46,751 --> 00:34:51,422 If I need extra time, extra space, 427 00:34:52,457 --> 00:34:55,226 I set that out right away. 428 00:34:55,226 --> 00:35:00,097 If that company or those people don't want to work with me because of it, well, 429 00:35:00,131 --> 00:35:05,103 frankly, as I've become want to say recently, 430 00:35:05,103 --> 00:35:08,840 that's a "them" problem and not a "me" problem. 431 00:35:08,873 --> 00:35:11,108 It's their loss. 432 00:35:11,776 --> 00:35:16,114 Then if someone were to say: actually, we don't want to work with you we think 433 00:35:16,147 --> 00:35:20,518 that that's too much or whatever, well, that's a good thing for me to know too 434 00:35:20,518 --> 00:35:24,188 because I wouldn't want to work with the company that felt that way. 435 00:35:24,388 --> 00:35:28,693 I've been very lucky that I haven't really had that experience 436 00:35:28,726 --> 00:35:31,496 here in Canada since I've come back for sure. 437 00:35:31,529 --> 00:35:35,633 I think, again, partially due to 438 00:35:36,267 --> 00:35:41,973 Mariposa's existence here in our local artistic community, it's been doing a lot of 439 00:35:41,973 --> 00:35:47,645 good in changing people's perceptions about what is, 440 00:35:48,279 --> 00:35:53,184 "diva behavior" and what is advocating for your basic access. 441 00:35:54,185 --> 00:35:56,120 So, yeah, I've been very lucky, 442 00:35:56,153 --> 00:36:03,761 but it's mostly just a lot of very careful scheduling and then knowing when is my... 443 00:36:03,794 --> 00:36:08,366 How long is it between now and the time that I will collapse? 444 00:36:08,399 --> 00:36:09,734 Because, 445 00:36:10,835 --> 00:36:14,505 yeah, in the summer, when all the shows are done, 446 00:36:14,705 --> 00:36:19,977 I'm I'm horizontal, and that's part of the plan. 447 00:36:20,144 --> 00:36:25,750 Then I emerge again with the next season. 448 00:36:26,217 --> 00:36:29,554 What are your upcoming shows? 449 00:36:29,587 --> 00:36:30,655 Oh, gosh. 450 00:36:30,688 --> 00:36:32,023 Well, I have quite a few. 451 00:36:32,056 --> 00:36:35,159 I'm directing three, which is a lot. 452 00:36:35,193 --> 00:36:40,898 Might be a little too much, but I love them all. 453 00:36:41,399 --> 00:36:44,969 My first show that's coming up is 454 00:36:45,002 --> 00:36:48,239 a production of Gilbert and Sullivan’s Pirates of Penzance 455 00:36:48,272 --> 00:36:51,175 that I'm directing at the North Shore Light Opera Society. 456 00:36:51,208 --> 00:36:55,613 It will be running from May 16th to 26th 457 00:36:55,613 --> 00:36:58,049 at the Presentation House Theatre in North Vancouver. 458 00:36:58,082 --> 00:37:00,151 It's inspired by Our Flag Means Death, 459 00:37:00,184 --> 00:37:05,756 which was a queer phenomenon of a show about pirates. 460 00:37:05,790 --> 00:37:09,393 I'm very, very excited that we get to 461 00:37:09,694 --> 00:37:17,602 do an extra queer version of Pirates of Penzance. 462 00:37:17,635 --> 00:37:20,037 It's been a real joy to create so far. 463 00:37:20,071 --> 00:37:23,374 I'm very excited for people to see it. 464 00:37:23,374 --> 00:37:26,477 So yeah, if any Taika Waititi fans out there really 465 00:37:26,510 --> 00:37:31,515 also like Gilbert and Sullivan, well, have we ever got the show for you? 466 00:37:31,549 --> 00:37:35,353 The next show I'm doing after that is 467 00:37:35,353 --> 00:37:39,824 I'm doing Menotti's Old Maid and the Thief with Heroic Opera, 468 00:37:39,857 --> 00:37:42,793 June 1st and 2nd at the Annex Theater. 469 00:37:42,827 --> 00:37:46,664 That one's really exciting for me because it's my first show I get to use 470 00:37:46,697 --> 00:37:52,536 my mobility aid on stage in a full-length opera, which is huge for me. 471 00:37:52,803 --> 00:37:59,443 I am so excited to get to be the person on stage using a mobility aid in an opera 472 00:37:59,477 --> 00:38:04,749 that I never saw when I was watching and consuming opera growing up. 473 00:38:05,349 --> 00:38:08,352 It's an immense privilege. 474 00:38:08,386 --> 00:38:09,520 I'm getting fitted 475 00:38:09,553 --> 00:38:14,759 for my period-appropriate mobility aid 476 00:38:14,792 --> 00:38:17,895 soon in one of our next rehearsals because, of course, 477 00:38:17,895 --> 00:38:23,034 mobility aids are period-appropriate for any period in which an opera can be set 478 00:38:23,334 --> 00:38:25,336 and 479 00:38:25,536 --> 00:38:31,275 so there's no reason to say, Oh, well, you can't use that because that doesn't go 480 00:38:31,309 --> 00:38:35,513 with what the 19th century esthetic of X opera or Y opera. 481 00:38:35,546 --> 00:38:41,752 Well, people needed mobility aids for as long as there have been people. 482 00:38:42,153 --> 00:38:44,255 Anyway, bit of a tangent. 483 00:38:44,288 --> 00:38:46,724 I just get very, very excited about being 484 00:38:46,724 --> 00:38:49,927 that person up on stage with a mobility aid. 485 00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:51,562 That's very good. In a period piece. 486 00:38:51,562 --> 00:38:53,331 Yeah, I'm so excited. 487 00:38:53,364 --> 00:39:00,504 Then I am directing Hansel and Gretel with Crescendo Operatic Society at 488 00:39:00,938 --> 00:39:07,211 the Surrey Annex Theater from June 21st to 23rd. 489 00:39:07,244 --> 00:39:10,581 The Crescendo Operatic Society is 490 00:39:11,148 --> 00:39:15,519 an educational space, sort of showing people - 491 00:39:16,420 --> 00:39:20,358 Teaching people from both inside and out, so from the perspective of the singer 492 00:39:20,391 --> 00:39:24,128 and the perspective of the audience, to love opera. 493 00:39:24,161 --> 00:39:29,567 A lot of the people who are singing there are new to opera. 494 00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:32,336 When they first walked in, were really scared about the idea and are 495 00:39:32,369 --> 00:39:36,974 now really embracing doing something scary and wonderful. 496 00:39:37,007 --> 00:39:43,714 All of those operas, we rehearse them all masked because, 497 00:39:43,748 --> 00:39:47,118 again, I really believe in that as an access measure. 498 00:39:47,151 --> 00:39:51,822 While all performances end up being unmasked, each singer will be 499 00:39:51,856 --> 00:39:57,094 testing repeatedly and starting testing repeatedly long before the masks come off 500 00:39:58,629 --> 00:40:01,932 to try to make it as safe as possible for all of us. 501 00:40:01,966 --> 00:40:08,038 We also rehearse with high-quality air filters going on, same reason. 502 00:40:08,072 --> 00:40:14,044 All three operas are in English, and Hansel and Gretel will come, 503 00:40:14,044 --> 00:40:17,481 even though it is in English, it will also come with English surtitles. 504 00:40:18,482 --> 00:40:20,718 So yeah, I'm really excited. I think those are all... 505 00:40:20,751 --> 00:40:26,090 I mean, as I said, not everything - not every production 506 00:40:26,090 --> 00:40:30,261 can be "perfect" in terms of accessibility measures. 507 00:40:30,294 --> 00:40:33,397 But if we can start normalizing some of that stuff. 508 00:40:34,632 --> 00:40:36,867 That is a huge and important change 509 00:40:36,901 --> 00:40:40,337 in the operatic world, and I'm really excited to be a part of it. 510 00:40:40,938 --> 00:40:42,072 That's great. 511 00:40:42,106 --> 00:40:45,976 I will post all that information on ArtsAbly's website. 512 00:40:45,976 --> 00:40:47,645 I am so excited. 513 00:40:47,645 --> 00:40:50,881 Me too! [Laughs.] 514 00:40:52,416 --> 00:40:55,019 I could talk about those shows all day. 515 00:40:55,052 --> 00:40:59,590 I'm just so excited about making more accessible art for people. 516 00:41:01,358 --> 00:41:03,527 I know we'll have to end eventually. 517 00:41:03,561 --> 00:41:07,264 I have one last question for you. 518 00:41:07,298 --> 00:41:12,803 It's about inspirations, not in the sense of "inspiration-porn." 519 00:41:12,803 --> 00:41:17,274 We had that a lot. There's a lot of conversations about that 520 00:41:17,274 --> 00:41:21,345 in the disability and arts community, and disability community at large. 521 00:41:21,378 --> 00:41:31,722 But maybe you can think of an artist that inspired you or guided you or 522 00:41:31,755 --> 00:41:37,361 someone who is in the community and is important to you, who would that be? 523 00:41:37,394 --> 00:41:39,597 Oh, yeah, for sure. 524 00:41:39,630 --> 00:41:43,100 In the same video that you were referencing earlier, 525 00:41:43,100 --> 00:41:46,337 Jacquie and I talked about this too, about, you know, like 526 00:41:47,037 --> 00:41:50,274 disabled people aren't inspirational for existing, but disabled people, 527 00:41:50,307 --> 00:41:56,046 like any person, are capable of doing inspirational things. 528 00:41:56,080 --> 00:42:03,854 It's just that going out to get the mail in a disabled body is not inspirational. 529 00:42:04,955 --> 00:42:10,127 But I think it is 100% true to say that every single person 530 00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:14,098 that I have become dear friends with on the internet, 531 00:42:14,131 --> 00:42:18,102 on the internet alone, through the work that I've done in 532 00:42:18,102 --> 00:42:23,908 content creation about disability in the arts has been really precious to me. 533 00:42:23,941 --> 00:42:28,979 That entire community that has grown around conversations about disability 534 00:42:29,013 --> 00:42:37,121 in the arts in the advocacy spaces online, those people are so... 535 00:42:38,055 --> 00:42:42,593 The whole community is precious to me, and the individual people inspire me every day 536 00:42:42,593 --> 00:42:48,232 because they continue to make art that is joyfully 537 00:42:48,265 --> 00:42:55,072 disabled in the face of ableist artistic systems. 538 00:42:55,105 --> 00:42:58,542 And that, as I said, that is an inspiring thing to do 539 00:42:58,976 --> 00:43:04,315 because so much of those ableist structures and systems 540 00:43:04,315 --> 00:43:09,086 that block us, tell us to quit, 541 00:43:09,086 --> 00:43:14,325 tell us that your voice is not valuable, that your voice is not important. 542 00:43:14,358 --> 00:43:25,436 To continue to make art in the face of that type of a barrier. 543 00:43:26,637 --> 00:43:31,675 That's what gets me out of bed in the morning to think about those. 544 00:43:32,109 --> 00:43:36,880 It's true that those people, many of whom, as I said, I've never met in real life, 545 00:43:36,914 --> 00:43:40,918 but with whom I speak online all the time about what they're doing 546 00:43:40,918 --> 00:43:45,689 and about how cool that is, that's really special to me. 547 00:43:45,723 --> 00:43:49,893 But at the same time, I really do only have one answer for this, 548 00:43:49,893 --> 00:43:56,100 and that's my forever partner in operatic crime, Jacquie Ko. 549 00:43:56,433 --> 00:43:59,103 She and I started doing voice lessons together 550 00:43:59,103 --> 00:44:02,039 when we were in elementary school. 551 00:44:02,072 --> 00:44:09,380 We went to the same school and became opera singers together by accident. 552 00:44:09,413 --> 00:44:14,685 But she knew that she was disabled the entire time, 553 00:44:14,685 --> 00:44:17,454 and she knew that she was 554 00:44:17,488 --> 00:44:23,894 growing into a voice that was special and that she wanted to be able to share. 555 00:44:23,894 --> 00:44:29,433 But the community, the operatic world, was just not accessible to her. 556 00:44:29,466 --> 00:44:37,241 So she went, well, I'm going to make my own company that is accessible to me. 557 00:44:37,274 --> 00:44:41,145 As I said earlier, I sort of identified as the healthy one 558 00:44:41,145 --> 00:44:48,185 in that friendship for a really long time before I realized that, well, maybe not. 559 00:44:48,185 --> 00:44:52,189 But if I... 560 00:44:52,189 --> 00:44:55,993 if she hadn't, you know, 561 00:44:55,993 --> 00:45:00,164 been so really stubborn about 562 00:45:00,197 --> 00:45:03,934 knowing that she wanted to be able to present her art, 563 00:45:05,836 --> 00:45:10,074 the systems wouldn't have been in place for when I needed them. 564 00:45:10,674 --> 00:45:12,710 I genuinely don't think that my career 565 00:45:12,743 --> 00:45:16,146 would be the same or my artistic practice would be the same 566 00:45:16,346 --> 00:45:22,319 if Mariposa hadn't existed, and Mariposa wouldn't exist without her. 567 00:45:22,853 --> 00:45:26,490 She's my forever bestie, and also, 568 00:45:26,523 --> 00:45:34,298 in some ways, one of the driving forces behind the way my career currently looks. 569 00:45:34,298 --> 00:45:35,499 That's the answer. 570 00:45:35,866 --> 00:45:38,235 Thank you. 571 00:45:38,268 --> 00:45:39,336 Well, thank you so much. 572 00:45:39,336 --> 00:45:41,038 You can go follow her on Instagram as well. 573 00:45:41,071 --> 00:45:44,041 I will put information about her 574 00:45:44,074 --> 00:45:48,312 in the resource page that will go with your interview. 575 00:45:49,713 --> 00:45:50,514 Good. 576 00:45:50,547 --> 00:45:56,854 I encourage all people to follow and to have a look at all these resources, 577 00:45:56,887 --> 00:46:01,325 Instagram, the YouTube channel, Mariposa, your shows. 578 00:46:01,325 --> 00:46:02,760 Thank you. Yes. 579 00:46:02,793 --> 00:46:06,663 I'm just really glad to be in a space 580 00:46:06,663 --> 00:46:11,301 to be able to make this type of more accessible art and to be able to push 581 00:46:11,335 --> 00:46:16,874 for increasing access for disabled folks in these artistic spaces. 582 00:46:17,508 --> 00:46:20,377 Well, thank you so much for this conversation. 583 00:46:20,410 --> 00:46:23,313 Thank you for letting me rant. 584 00:46:23,347 --> 00:46:24,715 Yeah, it was fantastic. 585 00:46:24,748 --> 00:46:26,583 Thank you so much. 586 00:46:26,583 --> 00:46:30,320 It's always a pleasure to talk about 587 00:46:30,354 --> 00:46:37,461 how we can expose our ideas or make the arts more accessible, generally. 588 00:46:37,494 --> 00:46:43,767 You're a great storyteller and activist in that. 589 00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:45,769 I thank you. 590 00:46:45,802 --> 00:46:47,838 Thank you so much for having me. 591 00:46:47,838 --> 00:46:51,742 Okay. All the best with all your projects. 592 00:46:51,775 --> 00:46:53,277 Thank you so much. 593 00:46:53,310 --> 00:46:54,778 Talk soon, maybe. 594 00:46:54,811 --> 00:46:56,580 Yeah. 595 00:46:56,613 --> 00:46:58,415 Always happy to chat. 596 00:46:58,415 --> 00:47:00,284 Okay. Have a great one. 597 00:47:00,284 --> 00:47:02,119 You too. Bye. 598 00:47:03,253 --> 00:47:08,392 ♪ Closing theme music ♪