1 00:00:01,751 --> 00:00:07,173 ♪ Opening theme music ♪ 2 00:00:10,593 --> 00:00:15,390 Hello and welcome to this episode of "ArtsAbly in Conversation." 3 00:00:15,432 --> 00:00:17,559 My name is Diane Kolin. 4 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:23,815 This series presents artists, academics, and project leaders who dedicate their 5 00:00:23,815 --> 00:00:30,030 time and energy to a better accessibility for people with disabilities in the arts. 6 00:00:30,071 --> 00:00:35,201 You can find more of these conversations on our website, artsably.com 7 00:00:35,201 --> 00:00:40,582 which is spelled A-R-T-S-A-B-L-Y dot com. 8 00:00:41,916 --> 00:00:46,796 ♪ Theme music ♪ 9 00:00:54,304 --> 00:00:58,016 Today, ArtsAbly is in conversation with Dr. Tekla Babyak, 10 00:00:58,016 --> 00:01:02,395 independent scholar with a PhD in musicology from Cornell University 11 00:01:02,395 --> 00:01:05,148 and disability activist. 12 00:01:05,190 --> 00:01:07,525 She fights for the fuller participation 13 00:01:07,567 --> 00:01:12,322 of independent scholars in academic activities with a special interest 14 00:01:12,363 --> 00:01:16,326 in disability accommodation needs for authors. 15 00:01:16,367 --> 00:01:20,872 You can find the links and resources mentioned by Tekla Babyak during 16 00:01:20,914 --> 00:01:26,169 the interview on ArtsAbly's website in the blog section. 17 00:01:26,169 --> 00:01:33,510 I am today with Tekla Babyak and Tekla is an independent musicologist 18 00:01:33,551 --> 00:01:38,348 with a PhD in musicology from Cornell University. 19 00:01:38,389 --> 00:01:42,018 She's also a disability activist and she does 20 00:01:42,018 --> 00:01:47,565 a very interesting and necessary advocacy for - advocacy work 21 00:01:47,565 --> 00:01:52,821 for disabled scholars and also for independent scholars. 22 00:01:52,862 --> 00:01:55,490 Thank you for being here today, Tekla. 23 00:01:55,490 --> 00:02:00,203 Thank you so much, Diane, for interviewing me and for this extremely 24 00:02:00,245 --> 00:02:03,832 important work that you're doing with ArtsAbly. 25 00:02:03,873 --> 00:02:05,125 Thank you. 26 00:02:05,208 --> 00:02:11,506 So your work has been very 27 00:02:11,631 --> 00:02:18,138 strong in terms of advocacy for disabled scholars and independent scholars. 28 00:02:18,179 --> 00:02:20,265 Can you talk a little bit about that? 29 00:02:20,265 --> 00:02:23,977 Yeah. A big part of my work is advocating 30 00:02:24,018 --> 00:02:30,859 for anxiety disorders to be more fully accommodated in academia because my main 31 00:02:30,900 --> 00:02:37,574 MS symptom is a disabling fear of criticism caused by neurological damage. 32 00:02:37,615 --> 00:02:44,664 To advocate for this awareness, I publicly self advocate for my own access needs. 33 00:02:44,706 --> 00:02:47,250 When I give conference presentations, 34 00:02:47,292 --> 00:02:52,130 I make an announcement, or if I'm not feeling particularly brave 35 00:02:52,171 --> 00:02:56,092 that day, I ask the session chair to make an announcement, 36 00:02:56,134 --> 00:03:01,639 requesting extra sensitivity and even compliments from the audience. 37 00:03:01,681 --> 00:03:08,646 And this is not only to put myself at ease, but also as activism to normalize 38 00:03:08,688 --> 00:03:13,151 the idea of anxiety in professional spaces. 39 00:03:13,151 --> 00:03:18,990 And you are very active in various groups in academia, right? 40 00:03:18,990 --> 00:03:21,910 I am. It's important for me to bring 41 00:03:21,910 --> 00:03:28,082 my disability centered, unaffiliated perspective into various groups. 42 00:03:28,082 --> 00:03:35,173 I am the secretary for the American Musicological Society Music and Disability Study Group, 43 00:03:35,215 --> 00:03:40,720 and it's a great honor to serve alongside my brilliant colleagues there. 44 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:43,514 I'm also on the accessibility committee 45 00:03:43,514 --> 00:03:49,062 for the Society for Music theory, and I am a delegate assembly member 46 00:03:49,103 --> 00:03:53,983 representing disability in the profession for the Modern Language Association. 47 00:03:54,025 --> 00:03:57,654 So I have all these various affiliations 48 00:03:57,695 --> 00:04:04,744 through those groups that keep me visible as a disabled, independent scholar. 49 00:04:04,786 --> 00:04:11,584 Very good. It is important because these groups represent a diversity of - 50 00:04:11,793 --> 00:04:18,132 of individuals with their perspectives and with their access needs. 51 00:04:18,174 --> 00:04:20,969 So it is very important what you're doing. 52 00:04:21,010 --> 00:04:22,512 Thank you. 53 00:04:22,512 --> 00:04:28,226 I wondered if you could talk about what brought you to musicology. 54 00:04:28,226 --> 00:04:37,527 I started music as a piano player as a young child, and it gradually developed 55 00:04:37,568 --> 00:04:44,993 into more of an interest in the historical context and the analysis of music. 56 00:04:44,993 --> 00:04:50,081 And that's what led me to pursue an undergraduate degree in music 57 00:04:50,123 --> 00:04:55,003 and ultimately a graduate degree in musicology at Cornell. 58 00:04:55,044 --> 00:04:57,922 And it's really been the sort of philosophical, 59 00:04:57,922 --> 00:05:03,136 historical, theoretical underpinning of music that has 60 00:05:03,177 --> 00:05:08,057 been this ongoing source of enchantment for me. 61 00:05:08,099 --> 00:05:15,565 And you work mostly, if I'm right, in the 19th century area, right? 62 00:05:15,606 --> 00:05:16,816 Yeah, I do. 63 00:05:16,858 --> 00:05:23,239 I call myself a canon crip because I'm a disabled person. Crip as a kind of term 64 00:05:23,281 --> 00:05:29,454 of reclaiming, who works mainly on the european musical canon. 65 00:05:29,495 --> 00:05:31,539 And I'm especially interested 66 00:05:31,581 --> 00:05:37,253 in Beethoven, Brahms, and Liszt. As I know you are yourself, Diane. 67 00:05:37,295 --> 00:05:38,379 I am, yes. 68 00:05:38,421 --> 00:05:40,006 Thank you. 69 00:05:40,048 --> 00:05:43,134 And I would love to know more about these 70 00:05:43,176 --> 00:05:48,431 works that you've been doing about Beethoven and Brahms, for example, and Liszt. 71 00:05:48,431 --> 00:05:52,810 Can you give us some examples of articles that you've published? 72 00:05:52,852 --> 00:05:55,229 I recently published an article 73 00:05:55,229 --> 00:06:01,486 in the journal 19th century Music titled Living forever on earth, 74 00:06:01,527 --> 00:06:07,825 philosophies of temporal eternity in Beethoven's opus 110 and 132. 75 00:06:07,825 --> 00:06:11,496 And I'm discussing how those pieces have 76 00:06:11,537 --> 00:06:18,169 a kind of alternating structure in various movements where they switch between 77 00:06:18,211 --> 00:06:23,800 expressions of despair and expressions of hope and recovery. 78 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:30,181 So it's perhaps representing this desire to continually keep on recovering 79 00:06:30,223 --> 00:06:35,144 and renewing oneself, as if the body could potentially live 80 00:06:35,186 --> 00:06:40,608 eternally on earth in this fantasy that's being proposed by the music. 81 00:06:40,650 --> 00:06:44,195 That's my very philosophical, interpretive reading. 82 00:06:44,195 --> 00:06:47,281 Perhaps not everybody would agree. 83 00:06:48,241 --> 00:06:50,493 And this is in what journal? 84 00:06:50,535 --> 00:06:52,703 19th Century Music, right? 85 00:06:52,745 --> 00:06:59,669 Yeah, that's the name of the journal, and it's the latest issue, fall 2023. 86 00:06:59,669 --> 00:07:02,630 So go ahead and download it. 87 00:07:02,630 --> 00:07:05,258 By reading and citing my work, 88 00:07:05,299 --> 00:07:10,555 you will all be contributing to disability inclusion. 89 00:07:10,555 --> 00:07:13,099 I will probably publish 90 00:07:13,141 --> 00:07:17,395 on ArtsAbly's website, links to these articles 91 00:07:17,395 --> 00:07:21,607 because I think that's going very well with the discussion today. 92 00:07:21,649 --> 00:07:25,236 And also, I'm pretty sure that 93 00:07:25,653 --> 00:07:30,741 those who are watching or listening to this podcast would love to read your work. 94 00:07:30,783 --> 00:07:32,618 Wonderful. Thank you so much. 95 00:07:32,660 --> 00:07:36,622 I really appreciate being able to uplift 96 00:07:36,664 --> 00:07:41,752 my contributions as a disabled independent scholar. 97 00:07:41,752 --> 00:07:45,631 So speaking of being a disabled independent scholar, 98 00:07:45,631 --> 00:07:52,221 when you are proposing an article or a book chapter to an editor 99 00:07:52,221 --> 00:07:58,603 or to a journal, I know you are trying to get these 100 00:07:58,644 --> 00:08:05,860 journals to improve their access needs for scholars with disabilities. 101 00:08:05,902 --> 00:08:08,029 Can you talk about this work? Yeah. 102 00:08:08,070 --> 00:08:11,157 Thank you so much for that great question. 103 00:08:11,157 --> 00:08:15,703 I personally have access needs for submitting my work. 104 00:08:15,745 --> 00:08:23,211 I need the editors and reviewers to be extra supportive and mindful of my 105 00:08:23,211 --> 00:08:29,342 MS related anxiety disorder, so I self advocate for those needs. 106 00:08:29,383 --> 00:08:34,639 Whenever I submit my work, I often refuse to submit until I get 107 00:08:34,680 --> 00:08:39,644 a firm promise from the editor that they will honor my access needs, 108 00:08:39,685 --> 00:08:44,607 and my advocacy goes beyond just my own personal needs. 109 00:08:44,649 --> 00:08:52,406 I'm advocating for scholarly journals to offer disability accommodation forms 110 00:08:52,448 --> 00:08:57,870 where authors could indicate their access needs and make requests as part of their 111 00:08:57,870 --> 00:09:02,500 submission, which would reduce some of the stress and labor around 112 00:09:02,500 --> 00:09:08,339 figuring out who to contact and always trying to navigate access in the scholarly 113 00:09:08,381 --> 00:09:15,513 publishing system, which currently is not really set up for disabled authors. 114 00:09:16,556 --> 00:09:19,016 So you already replied a little bit, 115 00:09:19,058 --> 00:09:25,815 but I wanted to dig more into the concept of accessibility and access needs 116 00:09:25,815 --> 00:09:34,490 in artistic fields because in scholarly journals we all have this common issue. 117 00:09:34,490 --> 00:09:37,952 But accessibility in the arts is something 118 00:09:37,994 --> 00:09:46,460 that is rarely talked about, and I wonder if you have a say on that topic. 119 00:09:46,502 --> 00:09:48,796 Thank you. That is such an important topic, 120 00:09:48,838 --> 00:09:53,259 and I really love the work that ArtsAbly is doing for that. 121 00:09:53,259 --> 00:09:57,805 I'll speak only to the issue of anxiety disorders, 122 00:09:57,847 --> 00:10:02,935 because that's where I have the most lived experience as a disabled person. 123 00:10:02,935 --> 00:10:05,563 It seems that the whole system is very 124 00:10:05,605 --> 00:10:10,693 inaccessible for performers with anxiety disorders. 125 00:10:10,693 --> 00:10:16,657 There's often no guarantee that the audience is going to applaud very much. 126 00:10:16,699 --> 00:10:19,201 There might be reviewers in the audience, 127 00:10:19,243 --> 00:10:22,788 music critics who would write negative reviews. 128 00:10:22,830 --> 00:10:26,208 People might not come up to you afterwards to congratulate you. 129 00:10:26,208 --> 00:10:27,877 There's an enormous amount of stress 130 00:10:27,918 --> 00:10:32,048 in playing a gig when you have a disabling anxiety disorder. 131 00:10:32,048 --> 00:10:38,012 I think for enhanced accessibility, and this is very much a utopian dream, 132 00:10:38,012 --> 00:10:43,309 that might not be realistic, but it would be wonderful to maybe be able 133 00:10:43,351 --> 00:10:47,897 to get promises from the reviewers that they won't write anything negative, 134 00:10:47,938 --> 00:10:54,153 and to make a request to the audience, even to have maybe some arts 135 00:10:54,195 --> 00:11:00,618 administrators make requests to the audience through email asking them 136 00:11:00,659 --> 00:11:05,456 to applaud extra hard for such and such a performer because of their disabling 137 00:11:05,456 --> 00:11:10,711 anxiety disorder or asking the audience members to please come backstage if they 138 00:11:10,753 --> 00:11:14,173 are able to, to congratulate the performer afterwards. 139 00:11:14,173 --> 00:11:16,926 I think that kind of infrastructure would 140 00:11:16,926 --> 00:11:23,766 really support disabled performers much more robustly for anxiety disorders. 141 00:11:23,766 --> 00:11:26,018 That's very important, I think, 142 00:11:26,060 --> 00:11:32,316 for people who are administrating or managing artistic 143 00:11:32,358 --> 00:11:43,702 institution or organizations who are willing to improve their rules or 144 00:11:44,495 --> 00:11:50,000 who are willing to welcome performers with disabilities, they don't necessarily know. 145 00:11:50,042 --> 00:11:53,421 So until we are approaching them and we 146 00:11:53,462 --> 00:11:59,009 are talking with them and saying, I would suggest this or this or this. 147 00:11:59,009 --> 00:12:00,886 So actually, it would be interesting 148 00:12:00,886 --> 00:12:05,725 to work on a suggestion list for these theaters. 149 00:12:05,766 --> 00:12:07,893 I'm just thinking out loud right now. 150 00:12:07,893 --> 00:12:09,687 I love that idea. 151 00:12:09,687 --> 00:12:10,730 Yeah, definitely. 152 00:12:10,730 --> 00:12:16,735 Because as you say, it's not always about resistance to disability needs. 153 00:12:16,735 --> 00:12:20,948 Sometimes it's just that the administrators don't know, 154 00:12:20,990 --> 00:12:28,622 and I think that we need to be hopeful about the potential for educating them. 155 00:12:28,664 --> 00:12:30,458 Totally. Yeah. 156 00:12:30,499 --> 00:12:32,751 So thank you for that great idea. 157 00:12:32,793 --> 00:12:37,631 I would love to contribute the anxiety ideas to the suggestion list. 158 00:12:37,673 --> 00:12:41,093 I will keep that in mind. [Laugh.] 159 00:12:41,719 --> 00:12:44,805 I have a question about what you're doing right now. 160 00:12:44,805 --> 00:12:47,349 Are you working on a particular project? 161 00:12:47,391 --> 00:12:50,436 Do you have anything to spotlight that you 162 00:12:50,478 --> 00:12:56,775 would like the people who are listening to this podcast to know? 163 00:12:56,775 --> 00:13:01,530 Thanks for this opportunity to plug my project. 164 00:13:01,530 --> 00:13:07,161 My current obsession is something that I call invitational pedagogy. 165 00:13:07,203 --> 00:13:09,997 It's the idea of inviting disabled 166 00:13:10,039 --> 00:13:13,167 independent scholars to give guest lectures. 167 00:13:13,167 --> 00:13:18,881 The job market is so inaccessible for many disabled candidates, 168 00:13:18,923 --> 00:13:24,053 it seems this is the only way to get disabled speakers in the classroom, 169 00:13:24,053 --> 00:13:29,016 kind of through the back door for now as invited guest lecturers, 170 00:13:29,016 --> 00:13:33,896 and they could be paid through the department honorarium funds. 171 00:13:33,896 --> 00:13:37,024 And this could hopefully open the front door 172 00:13:37,024 --> 00:13:42,238 to disability centered hiring practices once the groundwork has been 173 00:13:42,279 --> 00:13:48,035 established through having a series of disabled guest speakers. 174 00:13:48,077 --> 00:13:50,788 And do you have plans on future 175 00:13:50,830 --> 00:13:55,042 conferences that you are intending to present these ideas? 176 00:13:55,084 --> 00:13:57,336 I will be presenting these ideas 177 00:13:57,336 --> 00:14:02,466 at the international conference for 19th century Studies in the UK. 178 00:14:02,508 --> 00:14:04,969 I don't know yet if I'm going to go in person. 179 00:14:04,969 --> 00:14:10,307 It depends on whether I get a travel grant, but if not, then it'll be on Zoom 180 00:14:10,349 --> 00:14:15,896 and I'll be discussing the importance of bringing in disabled guest speakers. 181 00:14:15,896 --> 00:14:17,982 And at some point I would love to create 182 00:14:18,023 --> 00:14:22,945 some kind of database where disabled independent scholars could sign up 183 00:14:22,987 --> 00:14:29,410 and then faculty members could use that as a resource when deciding whom to invite. 184 00:14:29,410 --> 00:14:35,624 And this is a conference that we as auditors can watch online too? 185 00:14:35,666 --> 00:14:41,130 I think so, but there is a registration fee of something like 100 pounds, 186 00:14:41,130 --> 00:14:47,344 so I wouldn't necessarily want to pressure anybody to register to hear my talk. 187 00:14:47,386 --> 00:14:51,682 I do have some similar kinds of ideas 188 00:14:51,724 --> 00:14:58,480 in my humanities commons deposits on my website. 189 00:14:58,522 --> 00:15:01,483 Very good. So I will link the website too. 190 00:15:01,525 --> 00:15:02,735 Thank you. Thank you. 191 00:15:02,735 --> 00:15:06,196 That's really helpful to have the links. 192 00:15:06,238 --> 00:15:11,493 I would like to talk about inspirations. 193 00:15:11,493 --> 00:15:14,455 So if you had one person, 194 00:15:14,455 --> 00:15:19,335 one artist with disability, or one person active in the fields 195 00:15:19,335 --> 00:15:26,842 of intersection between disability and the arts, who inspired you, who would that be? 196 00:15:26,884 --> 00:15:30,971 I know it's a bit of a cliche, but it would be Beethoven. 197 00:15:30,971 --> 00:15:34,224 And it's not only because of his deafness, 198 00:15:34,266 --> 00:15:39,647 it's also because of his string quartet in a minor, Opus 132, 199 00:15:39,647 --> 00:15:42,608 one of the pieces in my article 200 00:15:42,608 --> 00:15:48,280 where its third movement alternates between two sections. 201 00:15:48,322 --> 00:15:55,037 One says Holy Song of thanks from a convalescent to the Godhead. 202 00:15:55,079 --> 00:15:57,706 The other section says feeling new strength. 203 00:15:57,748 --> 00:16:02,711 And the sections keep switching back and forth, so the music is embracing 204 00:16:02,711 --> 00:16:08,676 these fluctuations in health as part of the human experience. 205 00:16:08,717 --> 00:16:12,638 It's a very affirmative idea of disability. 206 00:16:12,638 --> 00:16:16,600 You get sick, but then you might get better, and then you might get sick again. 207 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:21,605 It's not linear and we could love it and appreciate that process. 208 00:16:21,689 --> 00:16:22,606 Very good. 209 00:16:22,648 --> 00:16:27,569 I'm very glad that Beethoven is your inspiration source. 210 00:16:27,611 --> 00:16:31,573 I tend to believe that it's a bit of mine, too. [Laughs.] 211 00:16:31,615 --> 00:16:33,534 That's wonderful to hear. 212 00:16:33,534 --> 00:16:38,831 I felt a little bit self conscious about not having anybody alive today when 213 00:16:38,872 --> 00:16:42,000 there's so many of my colleagues who are doing amazing work. 214 00:16:42,042 --> 00:16:48,924 But here I am going back to the late 18th and early 19th centuries. 215 00:16:48,966 --> 00:16:51,802 I'm sure everybody is fine with that. 216 00:16:51,802 --> 00:16:55,723 [Laughs.] 217 00:16:55,723 --> 00:16:57,266 Thank you so much. 218 00:16:57,307 --> 00:17:02,688 Any last words for the auditors of how to - 219 00:17:02,771 --> 00:17:11,363 how to dig more into these topics that you are speaking of? 220 00:17:11,363 --> 00:17:14,742 I would encourage everybody to maintain 221 00:17:14,783 --> 00:17:20,539 open communication about disability as much as you're comfortable doing so. 222 00:17:20,581 --> 00:17:22,791 If you have access needs, 223 00:17:22,833 --> 00:17:28,338 share those with others to the extent that you feel comfortable and safe doing it. 224 00:17:28,380 --> 00:17:31,967 Ask others about what their access needs might be, 225 00:17:31,967 --> 00:17:37,723 and through this kind of disability centered communication, 226 00:17:37,765 --> 00:17:44,104 we can build accessible spaces for each other. 227 00:17:44,146 --> 00:17:45,814 Thank you so much, Tekla, 228 00:17:45,814 --> 00:17:52,404 for this conversation, and I wish you all the best for all your projects. 229 00:17:52,404 --> 00:17:56,784 Thank you so much, Diane, for these wonderful questions 230 00:17:56,825 --> 00:18:01,038 and for the inspirational work that you are doing with ArtsAbly. 231 00:18:01,079 --> 00:18:06,418 I look forward to continuing to follow this incredible company. 232 00:18:06,460 --> 00:18:08,212 Thank you. 233 00:18:08,212 --> 00:18:09,421 Take care. 234 00:18:09,463 --> 00:18:11,256 You too. Bye. 235 00:18:13,634 --> 00:18:18,847 ♪ Closing theme music ♪