1 00:00:12,345 --> 00:00:16,933 Hello and welcome to this episode of ArtsAbly in conversation. 2 00:00:16,933 --> 00:00:19,018 My name is Diane Kolin. 3 00:00:19,018 --> 00:00:25,233 This series presents artists, academics, and project leaders who dedicate their 4 00:00:25,233 --> 00:00:31,823 time and energy to a better accessibility for people with disabilities in the arts. 5 00:00:31,865 --> 00:00:37,162 You can find more of these conversations on our website, artsably.com, 6 00:00:37,162 --> 00:00:42,625 which is spelled A-R-T-S-A-B-L-Y dot com. 7 00:00:54,095 --> 00:01:00,560 Today, ArtsAbly is in conversation with Carol Ratzlaff, founder of VIVA Singers Toronto. 8 00:01:00,602 --> 00:01:03,480 Among the choirs that she and her team lead 9 00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:09,527 is the Every Voice Matters chorus, EVM, a choir for teenagers and adults 10 00:01:09,527 --> 00:01:13,782 with disabilities who require individualized support. 11 00:01:13,823 --> 00:01:20,121 I attended one of their rehearsals on Monday, February 26, 2024. 12 00:01:20,163 --> 00:01:22,916 This episode first opens with an excerpt 13 00:01:22,957 --> 00:01:27,170 of the song "We rise again" that they were practicing. 14 00:01:27,212 --> 00:01:29,547 You will then have a snapshot of their 15 00:01:29,589 --> 00:01:35,094 warmup and rehearsals with their conductors Carol and Michael. 16 00:01:35,136 --> 00:01:38,306 After that excerpt, we will hear Michael speak about 17 00:01:38,306 --> 00:01:43,770 his experience with the choir, and Carol tell us more about VIVA singers. 18 00:01:44,270 --> 00:01:50,401 Choir: ♫ We rise again In the faces of our children ♫ 19 00:01:50,401 --> 00:01:56,491 ♫ We rise again in the voices of our song ♫ 20 00:01:56,491 --> 00:02:02,622 ♫ We rise again In the waves out on the ocean ♫ 21 00:02:02,622 --> 00:02:09,295 ♫ And then We rise again ♫ 22 00:02:10,547 --> 00:02:16,344 Carol: Breath and expend breathe, that stretch side here moving. 23 00:02:16,344 --> 00:02:18,096 Nice full breaths. 24 00:02:18,138 --> 00:02:21,975 Maybe breathe in through the straw 25 00:02:21,975 --> 00:02:23,476 as you're doing it. 26 00:02:23,476 --> 00:02:27,897 Choir: ♫ [Vocalizations on Z-Z-Z-Z-Z] ♫ 27 00:02:27,897 --> 00:02:31,401 Carol: Nice, now change to lip trills. 28 00:02:31,943 --> 00:02:37,073 Choir: ♫ [Vocalizations on br-br-br-br-br] ♫ 29 00:02:38,533 --> 00:02:41,536 Carol: It's a fantastic vowel, the best vowel for an E, for sure. 30 00:02:41,536 --> 00:02:47,792 It's not easy to do a balanced one. It's a closed vowel. 31 00:02:47,792 --> 00:02:49,544 Choir: ♫ [Vocalizations on I-I-I-I-I] ♫ 32 00:02:49,544 --> 00:02:52,881 Carol to the pianist: We are doing it in E flat. Pianist to Carol: E flat, sorry. 33 00:02:52,881 --> 00:03:01,055 Choir: ♫ [Vocalizations on I-I-I-I-I] ♫ 34 00:03:04,350 --> 00:03:10,148 Choir: ♫ Do Ti La Sol ♫ 35 00:03:10,148 --> 00:03:15,695 ♫ Fa Mi Re Do ♫ 36 00:03:15,695 --> 00:03:17,405 Carol: Sight singing time. 37 00:03:17,405 --> 00:03:19,032 Ready! 38 00:03:19,032 --> 00:03:25,663 Choir: ♫ Do La Ti Sol ♫ 39 00:03:25,663 --> 00:03:31,211 ♫ La Fa Sol Mi ♫ 40 00:03:31,211 --> 00:03:35,798 ♫ Fa Re Mi ♫ 41 00:03:35,798 --> 00:03:37,800 Sorry, I mixed it! 42 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:46,935 Choir: ♫ Mi Do Re Ti Do ♫ 43 00:03:46,935 --> 00:03:50,188 That was so good! 44 00:03:50,188 --> 00:03:52,941 Choir: ♫ Do ♫ 45 00:03:52,941 --> 00:03:56,569 Nice job! You sang in first and in fourth! 46 00:03:56,569 --> 00:03:58,821 Fourth is so tough! 47 00:03:58,821 --> 00:04:01,324 Great work. Awesome. 48 00:04:01,741 --> 00:04:04,243 Sight singing in the air. 49 00:04:05,453 --> 00:04:09,999 It's a beautiful structure that helps us when we perform 50 00:04:09,999 --> 00:04:15,213 and for an entire performance, and it makes it easy for the audience. 51 00:04:15,254 --> 00:04:20,677 Just pat near your heart so we all know that we're feeling the pulse 52 00:04:20,677 --> 00:04:23,221 Because we all have very different rhythms. 53 00:04:23,221 --> 00:04:26,182 If you take a look at the score there from top to bottom, 54 00:04:26,182 --> 00:04:28,559 there is nobody that has the same rhythm. 55 00:04:28,601 --> 00:04:30,395 Ready? Two. 56 00:04:30,395 --> 00:04:32,230 Breathe. And. 57 00:04:32,230 --> 00:04:41,364 Choir (women): ♫ Uuuu ♫ 58 00:05:01,676 --> 00:05:10,810 Choir (men): ♫ Uuuu ♫ 59 00:05:41,758 --> 00:05:44,177 Great! Great job! 60 00:05:45,386 --> 00:05:47,388 Three, four. 61 00:05:47,388 --> 00:05:54,937 Choir: ♫ Get busy living Get busy, get busy, get busy living ♫ 62 00:05:54,937 --> 00:06:02,779 ♫ Get busy living, get busy living get busy, get busy ♫ 63 00:06:02,779 --> 00:06:10,870 ♫ Get busy living, get busy Right now, get busy ♫ 64 00:06:10,870 --> 00:06:16,584 ♫ Living right now get busy ♫ 65 00:06:16,584 --> 00:06:24,092 ♫ Right now, get busy Living right now ♫ 66 00:06:24,092 --> 00:06:29,389 ♫ Get busy ♫ 67 00:06:31,224 --> 00:06:34,519 That's it, right here, bar 98. 68 00:06:34,644 --> 00:06:37,563 Does that makes sense? Great, okay. 69 00:06:37,563 --> 00:06:40,525 We will review more of that next week. 70 00:06:40,525 --> 00:06:43,277 We'll take five minutes so that we can run "We rise again." 71 00:06:52,203 --> 00:06:54,205 Ready! 72 00:06:54,705 --> 00:06:58,126 Choir: ♫ When the waves roll on ♫ 73 00:06:58,126 --> 00:07:01,420 ♫ over the waters ♫ 74 00:07:01,420 --> 00:07:05,591 ♫ And the ocean cries ♫ 75 00:07:05,591 --> 00:07:09,137 ♫ We look to ♫ 76 00:07:09,137 --> 00:07:12,473 ♫ our sons and daughters ♫ 77 00:07:12,473 --> 00:07:17,186 ♫ to explain our lives ♫ 78 00:07:18,062 --> 00:07:24,068 ♫ As if a child could tell us why ♫ 79 00:07:24,569 --> 00:07:27,488 ♫ That as sure as the sunrise, ♫ 80 00:07:27,488 --> 00:07:30,199 ♫ as sure as the sea, ♫ 81 00:07:30,199 --> 00:07:34,203 ♫ as sure as the wind in the trees, ♫ 82 00:07:34,203 --> 00:07:40,334 ♫ We rise again in the faces of our children ♫ 83 00:07:40,334 --> 00:07:46,424 ♫ We rise again in the voices of our song ♫ 84 00:07:46,424 --> 00:07:52,555 ♫ We rise again In the waves out on the ocean ♫ 85 00:07:52,555 --> 00:07:59,228 ♫ And then We rise again ♫ 86 00:08:00,813 --> 00:08:02,815 Great job tonight! 87 00:08:02,815 --> 00:08:05,109 It came so far, thank you. 88 00:08:08,321 --> 00:08:10,114 Hi, Michael. Hi. 89 00:08:10,114 --> 00:08:13,826 So you're Michael Denomme and I'm right now with VIVA. 90 00:08:13,826 --> 00:08:15,870 What is your role in the organization? 91 00:08:15,870 --> 00:08:20,291 So I'm the assistant conductor of the Every Voice Matters Chorus here at VIVA. 92 00:08:20,333 --> 00:08:23,044 And how long have you been doing that? 93 00:08:23,085 --> 00:08:27,048 I've been in this role for just two years now, 94 00:08:27,048 --> 00:08:30,426 but I've been with the choir for, I think this is my fifth season. 95 00:08:30,426 --> 00:08:33,429 So what does it consist of, this choir, exactly? 96 00:08:33,429 --> 00:08:37,016 Yeah, so this choir is a great inclusive 97 00:08:37,058 --> 00:08:43,356 group of singers for all disabilities and varying abilities depending 98 00:08:43,356 --> 00:08:48,194 on physical needs, also different mental needs. 99 00:08:48,194 --> 00:08:53,282 And yeah, it's just an all accessibility choir and we often collaborate 100 00:08:53,324 --> 00:08:58,996 with a community choir, which is made up of different adults from the community. 101 00:08:59,038 --> 00:09:00,957 It's a non auditioned choir, 102 00:09:00,998 --> 00:09:06,420 so it's really a great way to get everyone in from the community and include 103 00:09:06,462 --> 00:09:11,008 lots of different voices that aren't always included in other groups. 104 00:09:11,050 --> 00:09:14,303 So can you tell me what it consists of, your role, exactly? 105 00:09:14,303 --> 00:09:17,765 Yeah, exactly. So my role as the assistant conductor is 106 00:09:17,807 --> 00:09:19,767 just making sure that everything goes smoothly. 107 00:09:19,809 --> 00:09:24,939 I teach a lot of music and just making sure that everyone feels comfortable 108 00:09:24,981 --> 00:09:30,611 in the space and helping anyone with sort of anything musically. 109 00:09:30,653 --> 00:09:35,533 Okay. And so the format of the rehearsals, what do you do exactly during the rehearsals? 110 00:09:35,575 --> 00:09:37,827 Yeah. So during the rehearsals, generally, 111 00:09:37,827 --> 00:09:41,622 either Carol or I will start with a warm up. 112 00:09:41,664 --> 00:09:44,083 Often I will play the piano if Carol is teaching 113 00:09:44,083 --> 00:09:48,546 or if Brad [the pianist] is somewhere else, and that's something that I love doing. 114 00:09:48,546 --> 00:09:51,632 Collaborating with Carol on a weekly basis is wonderful. 115 00:09:51,632 --> 00:09:54,635 So we often will just take turns leading 116 00:09:54,677 --> 00:09:57,930 things in the rehearsals, either being up there teaching, 117 00:09:57,972 --> 00:10:01,183 or we often will split into smaller groups as well. 118 00:10:01,225 --> 00:10:06,230 Just switch up the learning environment to make sure that everyone that learns 119 00:10:06,230 --> 00:10:10,693 in different styles, whether it's group or in smaller groups, is taken care of. 120 00:10:10,735 --> 00:10:13,904 Can you tell me a great memory that you 121 00:10:13,946 --> 00:10:16,991 have in everything that you've done in the choir? 122 00:10:16,991 --> 00:10:17,533 Yeah, absolutely. 123 00:10:17,575 --> 00:10:22,872 So the one that always sticks out for me is the very first season I was with Viva. 124 00:10:22,872 --> 00:10:29,211 It was 2019-2020, so it was right as we were sort of heading into the pandemic, 125 00:10:29,253 --> 00:10:34,800 and I believe this was when we sang Beethoven Mass in C. 126 00:10:34,842 --> 00:10:36,761 And at first when I came into the group, 127 00:10:36,802 --> 00:10:39,263 I said, there's no way that we can sing this. 128 00:10:39,305 --> 00:10:41,432 It's such a big work. It's so huge. 129 00:10:41,432 --> 00:10:43,643 And just the way that we were able to break it down 130 00:10:43,643 --> 00:10:48,481 for every single singer, no matter their music ability level, 131 00:10:48,522 --> 00:10:52,234 it was just a wonderful way to present that work. 132 00:10:52,234 --> 00:10:54,070 And with the assistance of the community choir 133 00:10:54,070 --> 00:10:56,238 and different section leads, we were able to sing 134 00:10:56,238 --> 00:11:00,534 through the whole Beethoven Mass in C, which is quite a substantial work, 135 00:11:00,576 --> 00:11:04,663 and I still remember that musical memory to this day. 136 00:11:04,705 --> 00:11:07,166 And I think I have most of that work 137 00:11:07,208 --> 00:11:11,671 memorized at this point as well, which is just a great testament to how 138 00:11:11,671 --> 00:11:14,465 well it was taught throughout the whole process. 139 00:11:14,507 --> 00:11:20,346 So this is a special choir, and I've attended a rehearsal, 140 00:11:20,346 --> 00:11:23,974 and I was really impressed by everything that was done. 141 00:11:24,016 --> 00:11:29,688 But so it's all related to inclusivity and accessibility. 142 00:11:29,730 --> 00:11:32,024 And what is it for you to be 143 00:11:32,066 --> 00:11:35,611 in an organization that promotes accessibility in the arts? 144 00:11:35,653 --> 00:11:36,737 Yeah, absolutely. 145 00:11:36,779 --> 00:11:39,949 It's really important to me because I 146 00:11:39,990 --> 00:11:44,495 I think that music should be available to everyone. 147 00:11:44,537 --> 00:11:49,417 It's something that I enjoy every single day of my life, and I don't really know 148 00:11:49,458 --> 00:11:52,336 what I would be doing without music in my life. 149 00:11:52,378 --> 00:11:54,922 So just to be able to share the gift 150 00:11:54,964 --> 00:12:00,219 of music with every singer, no matter their ability level or whatever 151 00:12:00,261 --> 00:12:03,973 accessibility needs they need, is really important to me. 152 00:12:04,014 --> 00:12:08,436 So we are often very flexible with the way that we teach things here at VIVA, 153 00:12:08,436 --> 00:12:12,314 and I think that's a really important way for us to keep moving forward, 154 00:12:12,314 --> 00:12:15,651 to be able to reach as many lives as possible through music. 155 00:12:15,693 --> 00:12:17,278 Thank you so much. 156 00:12:17,319 --> 00:12:19,780 So I am with Carol Ratzlaff today, 157 00:12:19,822 --> 00:12:26,495 and I just attended a rehearsal of one of the VIVA choirs, 158 00:12:26,537 --> 00:12:31,876 and I will let Carol present this organization and these choirs. 159 00:12:31,917 --> 00:12:33,586 But before that, Carol, 160 00:12:33,586 --> 00:12:35,379 can you present yourself? 161 00:12:35,379 --> 00:12:45,806 Sure. I am a senior woman with long brown hair, and I am five foot two. 162 00:12:45,806 --> 00:12:54,023 I'm wearing blue jeans and just a gray shirt and big glasses. 163 00:12:54,064 --> 00:12:58,110 You are the founder of VIVA? Yes, I am. 164 00:12:58,152 --> 00:13:00,237 And what is it exactly, VIVA? 165 00:13:00,279 --> 00:13:02,823 I know there are seven different choirs. 166 00:13:02,865 --> 00:13:08,454 There are a lot of different things that you do in terms of pedagogy, 167 00:13:08,454 --> 00:13:14,376 in terms of rehearsals, in terms of music training, things like that. 168 00:13:14,418 --> 00:13:17,630 And so can you tell me a little bit more about VIVA itself? 169 00:13:17,671 --> 00:13:19,048 Sure. Yes. 170 00:13:19,048 --> 00:13:23,636 Well, our evolution began in the year 2000, when there were severe government 171 00:13:23,677 --> 00:13:27,431 cuts to school programs, especially downtown Toronto. 172 00:13:27,473 --> 00:13:29,975 And so I was a teacher in the school system, 173 00:13:29,975 --> 00:13:33,729 but I felt I had to do something outside the school system as well. 174 00:13:33,771 --> 00:13:36,649 It wasn't just enough to be in the system, 175 00:13:36,649 --> 00:13:40,027 but I had to do something in the private sector, as challenging as that is. 176 00:13:40,069 --> 00:13:45,282 And so I founded a children's choir, VIVA Youth Singers, at the time. 177 00:13:45,324 --> 00:13:48,327 And it grew fairly quickly. 178 00:13:48,327 --> 00:13:51,789 And we got work with the National Ballet right away in our first year. 179 00:13:51,831 --> 00:13:55,793 We've been singing with them ever since, 24 years. 180 00:13:56,085 --> 00:14:00,381 And so we just grew quite quickly. 181 00:14:00,422 --> 00:14:03,842 We had programming for children up to 18, 182 00:14:03,884 --> 00:14:10,224 but our community evolved based on who stuck around, basically. 183 00:14:10,266 --> 00:14:14,812 We were responsive to singers who were just with us. 184 00:14:14,812 --> 00:14:18,732 And so as they got older and tenors 185 00:14:18,732 --> 00:14:22,820 and basses emerged from the crowd and they didn't leave. 186 00:14:22,861 --> 00:14:28,200 We created an SATB choir in about 2005. 187 00:14:28,242 --> 00:14:34,582 But in the back of my mind, I was burdened by this - 188 00:14:34,623 --> 00:14:36,959 I think you might say it's a calling 189 00:14:37,001 --> 00:14:40,296 to create a choir for people with disabilities. 190 00:14:40,296 --> 00:14:43,549 It just weighed heavily on me with each passing year. 191 00:14:43,591 --> 00:14:49,597 I felt this is something that I had to do and when would I do it and how do I do it? 192 00:14:50,097 --> 00:14:53,225 And so it wasn't until 2010 when I had 193 00:14:53,267 --> 00:14:56,729 an opportunity to do that, that I added that component to the choir, 194 00:14:56,729 --> 00:14:59,690 but it was weighing on me the whole time, for sure. 195 00:14:59,690 --> 00:15:04,236 But it did start with very much just a youth focus 196 00:15:04,737 --> 00:15:11,619 and with some anger at that government for not understanding that a broader 197 00:15:11,660 --> 00:15:14,913 curriculum is what serves children, not a narrow one. 198 00:15:14,955 --> 00:15:17,041 But you couldn't fight it, really, at the time, 199 00:15:17,041 --> 00:15:21,170 except by doing your own thing within the system as well as you could, 200 00:15:21,170 --> 00:15:24,214 and then just working outside of it at the same time. 201 00:15:24,214 --> 00:15:32,765 So those are our roots, and then we have evolved based on who is around us, really. 202 00:15:32,806 --> 00:15:36,435 And I guess you'd call it responsive pedagogy. 203 00:15:36,477 --> 00:15:39,647 And so then our non audition community choir evolved 204 00:15:39,647 --> 00:15:44,318 because there were some parents around and they wanted to sing. 205 00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:47,988 And so we had a little program called the Six Week Singers. 206 00:15:48,030 --> 00:15:52,743 And so we have these limited time kind of projects. 207 00:15:52,785 --> 00:15:56,246 And then it just evolved that people wanted to sing longer than six weeks. 208 00:15:56,246 --> 00:16:00,751 And so all of these things were just from our community. 209 00:16:00,793 --> 00:16:05,547 But originally, you are a voice teacher or you are a teacher in. 210 00:16:05,589 --> 00:16:10,469 I am both, yes, I mean, I'm a singer, you know, mainly a classical singer 211 00:16:10,469 --> 00:16:16,016 and, you know, just done professional choral work locally. 212 00:16:16,141 --> 00:16:18,560 And then I taught vocal music in the schools, 213 00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:24,942 ended up at high school teaching choral music and so on. 214 00:16:25,401 --> 00:16:31,490 I tried to keep singing as much as I could with my school teaching and then my VIVA work, 215 00:16:31,490 --> 00:16:35,577 but tried to keep my hand in that as long as I could. 216 00:16:35,577 --> 00:16:41,583 So how did it evolve from one choir, possibly like a community choir, was it? 217 00:16:41,625 --> 00:16:43,669 Yeah, we started with two children's 218 00:16:43,711 --> 00:16:49,174 choirs, and it got populated, I think, fairly readily. 219 00:16:49,216 --> 00:16:50,926 It was small at the beginning, 220 00:16:50,926 --> 00:16:56,265 but it seemed to grow quite well within two or three years. 221 00:16:56,306 --> 00:16:57,349 Two or three years? 222 00:16:57,391 --> 00:16:59,810 From 2000 to two or three years later. 223 00:16:59,810 --> 00:17:04,690 Yeah, but, I mean, it was viable, it was growing, there was interest. 224 00:17:05,566 --> 00:17:07,818 We just, you know, we were able to keep going. 225 00:17:07,818 --> 00:17:14,283 Mind you, I mean, you know, a number of us worked very hard for about seven years to really launch it. 226 00:17:14,366 --> 00:17:18,871 You know, we volunteered for the first few years just to get it going and assemble 227 00:17:18,912 --> 00:17:23,041 the board and get charitable status and all those foundational things. 228 00:17:23,041 --> 00:17:25,252 You never want to do that twice in your life. 229 00:17:25,252 --> 00:17:27,337 Yeah, I can imagine that. 230 00:17:27,379 --> 00:17:30,257 So you have a big team behind you? A big team. 231 00:17:30,299 --> 00:17:31,383 We do have a big team. 232 00:17:31,425 --> 00:17:35,763 We have 35 staff members, most part time, 233 00:17:35,804 --> 00:17:39,349 and then, of course, the board of directors. 234 00:17:39,433 --> 00:17:42,144 Okay, so now today you have seven choirs? 235 00:17:42,186 --> 00:17:44,104 We have seven, yes. 236 00:17:44,146 --> 00:17:46,690 So we've kept our youth choirs, 237 00:17:46,732 --> 00:17:53,155 and then those adult choirs have emerged, and our EVM chorus is thriving. 238 00:17:53,197 --> 00:17:56,617 And when you started your choir, 239 00:17:56,658 --> 00:18:01,330 it was with children with disabilities or it was with everybody with disability? 240 00:18:01,330 --> 00:18:04,875 There were no people with disabilities for the first ten years. 241 00:18:04,917 --> 00:18:07,503 It was just a children's organization. 242 00:18:07,544 --> 00:18:14,802 And then I had the opportunity to network with someone at Holland Bloorview [Kids Rehabilitation Hospital] 243 00:18:14,843 --> 00:18:21,350 I knew a music therapist there, and I just, you know, I just really felt I wanted to do this work. 244 00:18:21,391 --> 00:18:24,228 And it was a cold call, really. 245 00:18:24,269 --> 00:18:30,651 And this person said - Andrea Lamont is her name, still a practicing music therapist, I'm sure. 246 00:18:30,651 --> 00:18:37,157 She said, well, I have just been allotted a certain percentage of my schedule to do community 247 00:18:37,157 --> 00:18:40,828 work somewhere, and I'm funded to go somewhere and help out. 248 00:18:40,869 --> 00:18:43,080 And so I said, well, could that be with me? 249 00:18:43,122 --> 00:18:46,375 And so for that year, she had a certain percentage of her time 250 00:18:46,375 --> 00:18:54,007 where she helped us understand how to audition people with various conditions 251 00:18:54,007 --> 00:19:01,056 and diagnoses and how to support them and how we might go about that work. 252 00:19:01,056 --> 00:19:03,433 And so we just jumped in. 253 00:19:03,475 --> 00:19:09,273 And for each rehearsal, I suppose you have staff members who help you with the attendees? 254 00:19:09,314 --> 00:19:15,028 Yes, we have almost one on one teaching assistant 255 00:19:15,070 --> 00:19:19,074 staffing for each person with a disability. 256 00:19:19,116 --> 00:19:23,871 And then we have an inclusion coordinator that oversees all of it. 257 00:19:23,912 --> 00:19:26,832 When we have a new singer come, 258 00:19:26,874 --> 00:19:31,670 she will then spend time with the family and make sure 259 00:19:31,670 --> 00:19:35,132 that we know what brings out the best in that singer. 260 00:19:35,173 --> 00:19:38,176 And then she will acquaint the singer 261 00:19:38,218 --> 00:19:42,848 and their needs to their teaching assistant and then, you know, just network through 262 00:19:42,890 --> 00:19:45,434 the year to make sure that relationship is going well. 263 00:19:45,475 --> 00:19:48,812 So there's a lot of work in the background that has to be done. 264 00:19:48,812 --> 00:19:56,570 So in details, what does it mean for you to have this organization that provides 265 00:19:56,570 --> 00:20:01,116 this accessibility needs that is not very well covered here, right? 266 00:20:01,116 --> 00:20:03,994 We don't have a lot of organizations like you 267 00:20:03,994 --> 00:20:07,039 that is that open, and it says, everybody's welcome. 268 00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:10,584 You can come sing whatever your ability is. 269 00:20:10,626 --> 00:20:14,212 What does it mean for you exactly? 270 00:20:14,630 --> 00:20:18,258 It means that you are 271 00:20:18,258 --> 00:20:20,260 creating... 272 00:20:20,928 --> 00:20:25,933 You're taking beauty and sharing it more widely. 273 00:20:25,974 --> 00:20:33,315 And for me, it's less political than it is esthetic. 274 00:20:33,357 --> 00:20:38,904 And that's the thing that I find challenging currently in our world, 275 00:20:38,946 --> 00:20:42,574 is that everything is stated from a political lens. 276 00:20:42,574 --> 00:20:49,122 And very rarely when I read academic 277 00:20:49,206 --> 00:20:58,382 sources of any kind do I encounter the power of music or the esthetics. 278 00:20:59,341 --> 00:21:02,260 So we've lost that currently. It will come back. 279 00:21:02,302 --> 00:21:05,639 We've just got a lopsided academy currently. 280 00:21:06,765 --> 00:21:09,476 But because the human spirit wants creativity 281 00:21:09,476 --> 00:21:13,689 and yearns for beauty, that will be restored at some point. 282 00:21:13,730 --> 00:21:17,693 But that's how I think of it. I think of it as sharing 283 00:21:17,693 --> 00:21:21,446 music that I love and of all sorts, 284 00:21:21,446 --> 00:21:27,911 and, you know, removing barriers so that other people can share in it. 285 00:21:30,831 --> 00:21:34,626 I guess that pretty much sums it up for me. 286 00:21:34,668 --> 00:21:42,009 And there's something about that dynamic of working with people with disabilities 287 00:21:42,009 --> 00:21:45,512 that tears away 288 00:21:45,554 --> 00:21:52,102 the social mystique that there's a layer 289 00:21:52,144 --> 00:22:00,527 sometimes in musical performance that is absolutely stripped away. 290 00:22:00,527 --> 00:22:02,654 And to me, music making is so much better 291 00:22:02,696 --> 00:22:09,244 without it, just the raw humanity of a person. 292 00:22:09,286 --> 00:22:14,374 And for an example, we have a young person with... 293 00:22:14,374 --> 00:22:16,793 Cystic... No, my. 294 00:22:16,835 --> 00:22:21,840 Why do I always forget the name of what he is affected by? 295 00:22:21,882 --> 00:22:30,724 But anyway, he's trapped in this body and he tries his best to - 296 00:22:30,724 --> 00:22:33,727 And he sings with his heart and soul, but he rides 297 00:22:33,727 --> 00:22:37,147 with joy in performance. 298 00:22:37,189 --> 00:22:42,819 And, you know, that is pure and utter raw humanity. 299 00:22:42,861 --> 00:22:48,116 That is just wanting to make art and be part of something beautiful. 300 00:22:48,617 --> 00:22:52,162 And I've spoken at many conferences, 301 00:22:52,204 --> 00:22:58,085 and how many times have people said: "I guess you just listen with different ears?" 302 00:22:58,126 --> 00:23:01,296 And I find that unconscionable. 303 00:23:01,296 --> 00:23:04,049 Of course I don't listen with different ears. 304 00:23:04,049 --> 00:23:06,885 You know, I'm a musician. I love sound. 305 00:23:06,927 --> 00:23:08,595 I love beautiful sound. 306 00:23:08,637 --> 00:23:11,181 That's not it. That's not the point. 307 00:23:11,181 --> 00:23:15,060 The point has been missed with that comment. 308 00:23:16,019 --> 00:23:19,523 But I have great patience, though, 309 00:23:19,564 --> 00:23:22,818 with people and their anger and their ableism. 310 00:23:22,818 --> 00:23:24,486 I really do. 311 00:23:24,528 --> 00:23:26,905 I have compassion for it because we are 312 00:23:26,947 --> 00:23:32,035 locked into this world of ours, you know, 313 00:23:32,035 --> 00:23:34,371 and people are just trying to make their way. 314 00:23:34,371 --> 00:23:36,790 And so... 315 00:23:37,082 --> 00:23:39,334 But I would like to share a little bit 316 00:23:39,334 --> 00:23:45,549 of how you could think of things differently than that and just open up. 317 00:23:45,590 --> 00:23:49,886 I think what it does is it just opens you up in a different way. 318 00:23:49,886 --> 00:23:52,305 It's quite a gift. 319 00:23:52,681 --> 00:23:55,308 And still, logistically, when you perform, 320 00:23:55,350 --> 00:24:01,314 you have to make sure that all the performers are able to go on stage, right? 321 00:24:01,356 --> 00:24:03,108 Yes. Where do you perform usually? 322 00:24:03,150 --> 00:24:05,944 Well, we just rent space here at Jeanne Lamon Hall. 323 00:24:05,986 --> 00:24:10,240 You know, it's accessible, and they're comfortable in the building. 324 00:24:10,282 --> 00:24:17,664 We tend to retain the singers because, you know, so much is built on relationship. 325 00:24:17,706 --> 00:24:20,041 You know, we have a young teaching assistant, 326 00:24:20,083 --> 00:24:23,461 for instance, who's been a TA here since he was 15. 327 00:24:23,503 --> 00:24:25,255 He's now finished his Master's, 328 00:24:25,255 --> 00:24:29,926 and he's been supporting the same two young men all that time. 329 00:24:29,968 --> 00:24:31,636 Those relationships are key. 330 00:24:31,678 --> 00:24:35,974 And when he's away, they're not happy, right. 331 00:24:37,100 --> 00:24:40,812 So they really benefit from routine and from familiarity. 332 00:24:40,812 --> 00:24:42,856 So they're very happy here to do the concerts, 333 00:24:42,856 --> 00:24:45,650 and it's a great place to perform. 334 00:24:45,692 --> 00:24:50,405 And when you do camps or when you go outside 335 00:24:50,447 --> 00:24:55,285 the place where you usually perform, do you struggle to find places that are 336 00:24:55,327 --> 00:25:00,999 accessible for... Like to have an instrument, somewhere to rent, 337 00:25:01,041 --> 00:25:05,837 and to make sure there is enough space for everybody to go around? 338 00:25:05,879 --> 00:25:11,468 Yeah, I mean, we haven't had that much opportunity to do things outside. 339 00:25:11,509 --> 00:25:17,933 For the EVM chorus in particular, we have taken some of them to camp 340 00:25:17,974 --> 00:25:23,146 one year because we do have a children's performing arts camp every fall. 341 00:25:23,271 --> 00:25:28,318 And I don't think they benefited that much from that experience. 342 00:25:28,443 --> 00:25:32,113 We might try it again in a different way. 343 00:25:32,155 --> 00:25:34,115 We did a musical just recently 344 00:25:34,157 --> 00:25:39,204 at Theatre Passe Muraille, and that was a great experience. 345 00:25:39,204 --> 00:25:44,125 And that was a young man with Down Syndrome who composed the musical. 346 00:25:44,167 --> 00:25:52,801 And then it was professionally produced, and so we were the chorus for it. 347 00:25:52,842 --> 00:25:56,805 So that was really our first gig, you know, where we 348 00:25:56,846 --> 00:26:02,894 left home and went out, and got, you know, were engaged to perform. 349 00:26:02,936 --> 00:26:07,148 And when is your next performance with the group? 350 00:26:07,190 --> 00:26:12,988 May 25 is our year end concert, so all of our choirs will sing on that show. 351 00:26:13,029 --> 00:26:17,951 And so, yeah, the music that you heard tonight is what will perform that night. 352 00:26:17,993 --> 00:26:20,245 So it's called "Poetry in Motion," 353 00:26:20,287 --> 00:26:25,125 and we have some hip hop dancers who will dance to the Carmina Burana. 354 00:26:25,166 --> 00:26:28,670 And so I think it's pretty creative. 355 00:26:28,712 --> 00:26:33,091 Where can we find information about how to book the tickets? 356 00:26:33,091 --> 00:26:36,177 Oh, well, we could just give your name to our manager. 357 00:26:36,177 --> 00:26:38,722 She'd be happy to share the info. 358 00:26:38,722 --> 00:26:42,058 I mean, not for me, but for people who want to... For anyone. 359 00:26:42,058 --> 00:26:45,312 Or our website. Well, it'll be advertising it as well. 360 00:26:45,312 --> 00:26:46,813 Okay, great. 361 00:26:46,813 --> 00:26:48,982 I have a last question. 362 00:26:49,024 --> 00:26:52,611 Is there any person in particular that you 363 00:26:52,652 --> 00:26:57,782 would think [of] in term of inspiration of your work? 364 00:26:57,824 --> 00:27:01,369 Well, a few years ago, before COVID, 365 00:27:01,369 --> 00:27:06,374 I flew to Scotland by myself, and I went to the Drake [Music] School 366 00:27:06,374 --> 00:27:11,004 and saw all the amazing things they were doing in Edinburgh there. 367 00:27:11,046 --> 00:27:17,594 And I met James MacMillan, one of the world's great composers currently. 368 00:27:17,635 --> 00:27:23,266 And I had just read that he had a granddaughter 369 00:27:23,308 --> 00:27:26,895 with a disability who just unfortunately died. 370 00:27:26,895 --> 00:27:31,816 And similar to me, who, I have a son with a disability. 371 00:27:31,816 --> 00:27:33,652 He's alive and well, I'm happy to say. 372 00:27:33,652 --> 00:27:36,237 But, so, I mean, I'm not... 373 00:27:36,237 --> 00:27:38,990 I don't possess a disability and neither does James MacMillan. 374 00:27:39,032 --> 00:27:44,287 But the common thing was that we had this close family member who had been affected, 375 00:27:44,287 --> 00:27:50,669 but his work and what sprung from that for him was this amazing 376 00:27:50,710 --> 00:27:57,759 project of compositions, including people with disabilities 377 00:27:58,301 --> 00:28:02,347 there at the Drake School. And also school children with disabilities, 378 00:28:02,347 --> 00:28:08,186 and, you know, bringing together some of the finest orchestral players 379 00:28:08,186 --> 00:28:14,692 you know, in the UK, doing a major work with these people, 380 00:28:14,734 --> 00:28:21,783 playing instruments, you know, that are modified or with the aid of technology and so on, 381 00:28:21,825 --> 00:28:26,788 but creating beauty out of that, it was just amazing to watch. 382 00:28:26,830 --> 00:28:32,168 So, you know, that's been a real inspiration for me, that there's this incredible artist, 383 00:28:32,168 --> 00:28:38,842 and he is able to find ways to bring beauty and to include those people. 384 00:28:38,883 --> 00:28:42,846 Well, thank you for your work, because I think it's very important. 385 00:28:42,887 --> 00:28:45,807 People like you, they're 386 00:28:45,807 --> 00:28:54,107 the force of this society, and we can actually show that there is 387 00:28:54,149 --> 00:29:00,822 great power in art for people with disabilities, or for everybody, actually. 388 00:29:00,864 --> 00:29:05,034 But with the creation of all these choirs 389 00:29:05,076 --> 00:29:08,496 and all these ensembles and all these pedagogy techniques. 390 00:29:08,496 --> 00:29:13,793 I was also very impressed by the diversity of pedagogy techniques that I saw tonight. 391 00:29:13,835 --> 00:29:14,544 That's great. 392 00:29:14,586 --> 00:29:18,506 And so I wanted to say thank you and thank you for receiving me today. 393 00:29:18,548 --> 00:29:20,091 Yeah. Thank you for coming. 394 00:29:20,091 --> 00:29:22,343 And all the best with all your projects. 395 00:29:22,385 --> 00:29:24,137 Thank you so much. Thank you.