WEBVTT 00:00:06.038 --> 00:00:07.439 Hi, my name is Bill Boisenalt, 00:00:07.778 --> 00:00:08.538 and on behalf of the 00:00:08.599 --> 00:00:10.419 Academy of Orthopedic Physical Therapy, 00:00:10.480 --> 00:00:11.881 I want to thank you and 00:00:11.961 --> 00:00:14.121 welcome you as we continue 00:00:14.141 --> 00:00:15.602 to celebrate the first 50 00:00:15.602 --> 00:00:17.902 years of the Academy. 00:00:17.902 --> 00:00:20.824 2024 marks the 50th birthday, 00:00:20.984 --> 00:00:22.265 which is a big birthday for 00:00:22.425 --> 00:00:24.425 any organization, any business, 00:00:25.146 --> 00:00:25.765 and the Academy has 00:00:25.806 --> 00:00:26.806 undertaken a number of 00:00:26.887 --> 00:00:29.167 activities to honor the past, 00:00:29.248 --> 00:00:31.489 celebrate the past, including 00:00:32.219 --> 00:00:32.798 creating, 00:00:32.978 --> 00:00:35.039 developing an historical timeline 00:00:35.060 --> 00:00:36.420 of key events that occurred 00:00:36.661 --> 00:00:38.722 over these previous years. 00:00:40.302 --> 00:00:41.703 The purpose of these Couch 00:00:41.743 --> 00:00:43.283 Conversations has been to 00:00:43.363 --> 00:00:45.024 highlight the events that 00:00:45.085 --> 00:00:47.026 not only helped shape the academy, 00:00:47.426 --> 00:00:48.365 but also helped shape the 00:00:48.405 --> 00:00:49.587 profession overall. 00:00:50.387 --> 00:00:51.487 And we've had six such 00:00:51.548 --> 00:00:53.067 conversations to date. 00:00:53.848 --> 00:00:54.109 Today, 00:00:54.189 --> 00:00:56.750 number seven will be the final Couch 00:00:56.770 --> 00:00:59.271 Conversation looking back at the past. 00:01:00.000 --> 00:01:00.680 And it is very, 00:01:00.740 --> 00:01:02.241 very fitting that we are 00:01:02.281 --> 00:01:03.783 joined today by Dr. Stanley 00:01:03.823 --> 00:01:05.745 Parris in this Seventh and 00:01:05.784 --> 00:01:07.245 Final Couch Conversation. 00:01:08.186 --> 00:01:09.507 Dr. Parris is the founding 00:01:09.567 --> 00:01:10.709 father of the Academy. 00:01:10.728 --> 00:01:15.873 He spearheaded the Academy formation, 00:01:16.013 --> 00:01:18.054 which we will hear took six 00:01:18.114 --> 00:01:19.736 or seven years to accomplish. 00:01:20.775 --> 00:01:22.058 Dr. Parris helped guide it 00:01:22.097 --> 00:01:23.218 through the APA House of 00:01:23.539 --> 00:01:25.040 Delegates approval process, 00:01:25.159 --> 00:01:27.221 getting a section approval at that time. 00:01:28.004 --> 00:01:28.903 And subsequently, 00:01:29.103 --> 00:01:30.984 he was elected as the first 00:01:31.105 --> 00:01:33.626 president of the Academy. 00:01:34.507 --> 00:01:35.986 And after finishing his terms, 00:01:36.246 --> 00:01:37.748 served numerous official 00:01:37.768 --> 00:01:41.290 and unofficial roles within the Academy. 00:01:42.170 --> 00:01:44.070 In recognition of his contributions, 00:01:44.570 --> 00:01:46.331 the section created the 00:01:46.412 --> 00:01:48.072 Paris Distinguished Service Award. 00:01:48.793 --> 00:01:49.873 And Stanley was the first 00:01:49.933 --> 00:01:52.453 recipient to that award in 1990. 00:01:52.453 --> 00:01:54.015 So Stanley, it is a pleasure. 00:01:54.114 --> 00:01:56.296 Thank you for joining us today. 00:01:57.239 --> 00:01:58.859 Well, thank you, Bill, for the invitation. 00:01:59.459 --> 00:02:01.000 It's a pleasure to be alive 00:02:01.019 --> 00:02:04.762 these 50 years and to be 00:02:04.841 --> 00:02:06.322 able to share some thoughts with you. 00:02:06.602 --> 00:02:09.082 But this great orthopedic section, 00:02:09.362 --> 00:02:09.802 as you know, 00:02:10.062 --> 00:02:12.003 you're now using the term academy. 00:02:12.584 --> 00:02:13.525 Right, right. 00:02:14.145 --> 00:02:14.705 By the way, 00:02:14.724 --> 00:02:16.765 I don't think I was the first president. 00:02:16.806 --> 00:02:17.765 I was the first chairman. 00:02:18.346 --> 00:02:20.026 Back then we used the term chairman. 00:02:20.741 --> 00:02:21.883 President came later. 00:02:22.502 --> 00:02:23.483 And part of that was the 00:02:23.522 --> 00:02:25.663 thinking that if you are 00:02:25.743 --> 00:02:26.844 running an organization, 00:02:26.865 --> 00:02:27.865 you should be the chairman, 00:02:28.425 --> 00:02:29.325 whereas presidents get a 00:02:29.346 --> 00:02:31.026 little bit dictatorial at times. 00:02:31.486 --> 00:02:32.587 So I was very happy with the 00:02:32.627 --> 00:02:33.367 title of chairman, 00:02:33.407 --> 00:02:35.588 but now I'm considered a past president. 00:02:35.729 --> 00:02:36.229 That's okay. 00:02:37.729 --> 00:02:39.270 It's a good historical footnote. 00:02:39.311 --> 00:02:39.991 That's perfect. 00:02:40.312 --> 00:02:40.951 That's perfect. 00:02:42.127 --> 00:02:42.647 You know, Stanley, 00:02:42.687 --> 00:02:44.349 today the Academy has over 00:02:44.349 --> 00:02:46.352 16,300 members. 00:02:47.171 --> 00:02:48.753 It has a permanent office 00:02:48.813 --> 00:02:50.474 building in La Crosse, Wisconsin. 00:02:50.895 --> 00:02:52.295 It has seven staff. 00:02:53.157 --> 00:02:54.497 It has JOSPT, 00:02:54.538 --> 00:02:56.060 which really is three journals, 00:02:56.159 --> 00:02:57.681 plus it has its magazine. 00:02:58.260 --> 00:02:58.901 And the Academy has 00:02:58.942 --> 00:03:01.644 contributed $1.5 million to 00:03:01.663 --> 00:03:02.705 the Foundation for Physical 00:03:02.724 --> 00:03:03.626 Therapy Research. 00:03:04.400 --> 00:03:07.520 In that first year, it had 740 members. 00:03:07.901 --> 00:03:09.301 There was no office building. 00:03:09.622 --> 00:03:10.861 There was no staff. 00:03:12.282 --> 00:03:12.603 In fact, 00:03:12.622 --> 00:03:13.562 I think you mentioned to me at 00:03:13.603 --> 00:03:14.503 some point along the way 00:03:14.584 --> 00:03:16.044 that the section office 00:03:16.063 --> 00:03:17.544 really was a closet in your 00:03:17.604 --> 00:03:19.205 home that contained boxes 00:03:19.264 --> 00:03:20.246 filled with papers. 00:03:21.325 --> 00:03:22.506 I mean, those early days, 00:03:22.566 --> 00:03:24.407 did you ever imagine the 00:03:24.706 --> 00:03:25.967 academy would evolve to 00:03:26.048 --> 00:03:26.967 where it is today? 00:03:28.046 --> 00:03:28.247 No, 00:03:28.268 --> 00:03:30.730 and I didn't imagine that physical 00:03:30.770 --> 00:03:32.394 therapy would be such a 00:03:32.454 --> 00:03:34.317 large profession as it is 00:03:34.377 --> 00:03:35.479 today with the level of 00:03:35.538 --> 00:03:37.622 acceptance that it has. 00:03:38.362 --> 00:03:40.706 It's higher level of autonomy than ever. 00:03:41.669 --> 00:03:44.051 But I worked for it as well 00:03:44.092 --> 00:03:45.413 as everyone else because we 00:03:45.473 --> 00:03:47.213 believed that in the best 00:03:47.274 --> 00:03:48.354 interest of the patient, 00:03:48.936 --> 00:03:49.855 we needed clinical 00:03:49.917 --> 00:03:51.478 specialization to advance 00:03:51.518 --> 00:03:53.960 physical therapy, to advance its autonomy, 00:03:54.659 --> 00:03:55.661 and so that we could better 00:03:55.700 --> 00:03:56.502 serve the public. 00:03:56.562 --> 00:03:57.442 And we knew we had to 00:03:57.502 --> 00:03:59.003 wrestle with the medical 00:03:59.063 --> 00:04:00.824 profession to gain a number 00:04:00.865 --> 00:04:01.526 of those rights. 00:04:02.626 --> 00:04:05.449 And so I imagined it, yes, 00:04:05.568 --> 00:04:06.729 but did I think it would happen? 00:04:08.032 --> 00:04:10.074 don't know but it has and 00:04:10.114 --> 00:04:11.134 I'm very pleased with where 00:04:11.175 --> 00:04:12.556 we are today in many 00:04:12.616 --> 00:04:14.837 respects not all yeah yeah 00:04:14.858 --> 00:04:15.818 so we'll go you should be 00:04:15.859 --> 00:04:17.600 very proud of what was 00:04:17.701 --> 00:04:19.641 created and the impact it 00:04:19.682 --> 00:04:21.764 has had um so you mentioned 00:04:21.783 --> 00:04:23.225 some of the driving forces 00:04:23.565 --> 00:04:24.447 or some of the issues that 00:04:24.466 --> 00:04:26.387 led to the creation of the 00:04:26.449 --> 00:04:28.110 section itself were there 00:04:28.170 --> 00:04:29.730 any other driving forces 00:04:29.812 --> 00:04:31.353 besides those that you just mentioned 00:04:31.737 --> 00:04:31.978 Well, 00:04:32.038 --> 00:04:34.139 just take a minute or two to talk 00:04:34.180 --> 00:04:35.821 about what physical therapy 00:04:35.860 --> 00:04:39.543 was like in the 1960s when 00:04:39.583 --> 00:04:41.625 we started to work to get 00:04:41.665 --> 00:04:45.226 the section formed in 1974. 00:04:45.226 --> 00:04:47.408 Physical therapy depended on 00:04:47.449 --> 00:04:49.410 a medical referral complete 00:04:49.449 --> 00:04:51.432 with a diagnosis and a prescription. 00:04:52.488 --> 00:04:53.389 Doctors, as you know, 00:04:53.408 --> 00:04:54.730 most of them don't know the 00:04:54.750 --> 00:04:55.889 first thing about physical 00:04:55.930 --> 00:04:57.531 therapy or what it is we can do. 00:04:57.990 --> 00:04:59.672 And the musculoskeletal system, 00:04:59.711 --> 00:05:01.791 which is the largest area 00:05:01.831 --> 00:05:02.872 of physical therapy, 00:05:03.452 --> 00:05:04.653 is not in their training or 00:05:04.713 --> 00:05:05.994 education to any degree. 00:05:07.053 --> 00:05:07.574 Anatomy, 00:05:07.634 --> 00:05:08.634 the arm and leg could be an 00:05:08.714 --> 00:05:09.855 elective at some medical 00:05:09.894 --> 00:05:11.175 school and the cadavers 00:05:11.216 --> 00:05:12.315 never get off their backs. 00:05:13.196 --> 00:05:14.177 And the head and neck goes 00:05:14.216 --> 00:05:16.036 to the dental school and so forth. 00:05:16.336 --> 00:05:17.497 So doctors don't know the 00:05:17.918 --> 00:05:19.158 musculoskeletal system, 00:05:19.197 --> 00:05:20.399 yet they were in charge of us. 00:05:21.120 --> 00:05:22.300 They ran our state boards. 00:05:23.182 --> 00:05:24.521 They authorized our schools 00:05:24.601 --> 00:05:26.903 and the content of what was instructive. 00:05:27.583 --> 00:05:28.663 That had to change. 00:05:29.343 --> 00:05:30.764 And so those of us 00:05:31.024 --> 00:05:32.264 interested in orthopedics 00:05:33.326 --> 00:05:35.045 and other specialty areas, sports, 00:05:35.807 --> 00:05:37.966 we started to agitate and 00:05:38.026 --> 00:05:39.668 try and make some changes. 00:05:40.468 --> 00:05:42.209 When we tried to form a section, 00:05:42.228 --> 00:05:44.009 because the only two 00:05:44.069 --> 00:05:45.329 sections at the time in the 00:05:45.750 --> 00:05:47.790 1960s were the education 00:05:47.831 --> 00:05:49.391 section and private practice. 00:05:49.692 --> 00:05:49.791 Right. 00:05:50.298 --> 00:05:51.701 And all the education people 00:05:51.740 --> 00:05:52.862 thought they should never 00:05:52.922 --> 00:05:54.963 have had a section on private practice. 00:05:55.004 --> 00:05:56.346 We should not be making money. 00:05:56.665 --> 00:05:58.588 We should be salaried in hospitals. 00:05:58.908 --> 00:06:00.610 Anyhow, 00:06:01.190 --> 00:06:05.055 Ron Payton was interested in sports. 00:06:05.915 --> 00:06:07.437 I was interested in manual 00:06:07.456 --> 00:06:08.678 and manipulative therapy. 00:06:09.963 --> 00:06:12.725 And he was at the same time 00:06:14.125 --> 00:06:15.706 trying to agitate for 00:06:16.187 --> 00:06:17.987 specialization in sports 00:06:18.028 --> 00:06:19.129 within physical therapy. 00:06:19.689 --> 00:06:21.089 So a committee was formed by 00:06:21.110 --> 00:06:23.971 the APTA with Nancy Watts as chair, 00:06:24.572 --> 00:06:27.033 Ron Payton as a clinician 00:06:27.112 --> 00:06:29.514 on that committee, and Roger Nelson. 00:06:30.254 --> 00:06:31.935 That committee surveyed some members. 00:06:32.156 --> 00:06:32.815 I don't know who they 00:06:32.855 --> 00:06:34.456 surveyed or how extensive it was, 00:06:35.017 --> 00:06:35.958 but they were about to 00:06:35.997 --> 00:06:37.519 report to the House of Delegates. 00:06:38.672 --> 00:06:40.312 that there was no interest 00:06:40.372 --> 00:06:41.833 in clinical specialization 00:06:41.892 --> 00:06:42.773 in physical therapy. 00:06:43.612 --> 00:06:44.613 When I got wind of that, 00:06:45.394 --> 00:06:46.293 I knew that they were 00:06:46.353 --> 00:06:48.714 totally wrong because when 00:06:48.754 --> 00:06:49.855 we had tried to form a 00:06:49.915 --> 00:06:53.615 section on manipulation, APTA said no. 00:06:54.396 --> 00:06:56.737 So we went ahead and founded an academy, 00:06:56.976 --> 00:06:58.297 the North American Academy 00:06:58.637 --> 00:06:59.937 of Manipulation Therapy, 00:07:00.437 --> 00:07:01.778 combining Canada and the 00:07:01.817 --> 00:07:03.238 United States in those 00:07:03.358 --> 00:07:04.358 interested in manual and 00:07:04.379 --> 00:07:05.178 manipulative therapy. 00:07:05.939 --> 00:07:07.480 And I spoke before the house saying, 00:07:08.651 --> 00:07:12.894 We have 942 members in our 00:07:12.935 --> 00:07:14.615 manual and manipular therapy group, 00:07:15.096 --> 00:07:16.197 mostly American. 00:07:16.737 --> 00:07:18.238 If you don't give us a home 00:07:18.918 --> 00:07:20.160 within physical therapy, 00:07:20.701 --> 00:07:21.800 many of my members will 00:07:21.821 --> 00:07:23.362 wonder if their APTA 00:07:23.442 --> 00:07:25.204 membership is worth anything. 00:07:26.307 --> 00:07:27.509 And as a result of that, 00:07:28.168 --> 00:07:29.550 they scrapped the report 00:07:29.651 --> 00:07:31.451 from the committee, 00:07:31.492 --> 00:07:32.112 which was going to 00:07:32.173 --> 00:07:34.533 recommend against specialization. 00:07:35.115 --> 00:07:36.336 And we got the orthopedic 00:07:36.396 --> 00:07:37.637 section agreed to. 00:07:38.478 --> 00:07:42.000 So the interest was in 00:07:42.060 --> 00:07:43.420 manual and manipulative therapy. 00:07:43.661 --> 00:07:46.644 The compromise was the orthopedic section. 00:07:47.163 --> 00:07:48.024 And that was okay. 00:07:48.605 --> 00:07:50.427 But jump fast forward, 1992, 00:07:50.427 --> 00:07:52.988 the orthopedic section had 00:07:53.048 --> 00:07:55.531 grown so large that those of us 00:07:56.035 --> 00:07:57.158 who were interested mainly 00:07:57.218 --> 00:07:58.281 in manual and manipulative 00:07:58.322 --> 00:08:00.327 therapy were being 00:08:00.428 --> 00:08:02.295 overwhelmed by the size of the meeting. 00:08:02.889 --> 00:08:04.810 and the lack of collegiality 00:08:05.471 --> 00:08:06.752 and opportunity to share 00:08:06.791 --> 00:08:07.593 within our field. 00:08:08.132 --> 00:08:10.173 So we broke away and founded 00:08:10.555 --> 00:08:11.654 the American Academy of 00:08:11.735 --> 00:08:12.995 Orthopaedic Manipulative 00:08:13.036 --> 00:08:13.797 Physical Therapy. 00:08:14.377 --> 00:08:16.158 It became endorsed by the 00:08:16.197 --> 00:08:17.658 Orthopaedic Section and in 00:08:17.718 --> 00:08:20.360 turn was endorsed by the APTA. 00:08:20.761 --> 00:08:23.622 So we got to be a member of IFOMT. 00:08:24.283 --> 00:08:26.463 IFOMT was founded in 74, 00:08:26.463 --> 00:08:28.185 the same year as the Orthopaedic Section, 00:08:28.725 --> 00:08:30.887 but we could not be a member of IFOMT. 00:08:33.057 --> 00:08:33.957 It's very interesting, 00:08:34.018 --> 00:08:35.298 the international 00:08:35.798 --> 00:08:36.879 collaboration that was 00:08:36.938 --> 00:08:39.220 occurring and the genesis of the section. 00:08:39.240 --> 00:08:40.320 I'm not surprising with your 00:08:40.360 --> 00:08:42.160 background and your close 00:08:42.181 --> 00:08:44.601 contacts with physical 00:08:44.642 --> 00:08:45.861 therapists in Canada, 00:08:45.961 --> 00:08:47.863 as well as in Europe and New Zealand, 00:08:47.942 --> 00:08:48.562 Australia. 00:08:49.903 --> 00:08:51.803 So there was a broad reach 00:08:52.183 --> 00:08:54.565 of this interest group. 00:08:55.947 --> 00:08:56.927 It's also kind of ironic 00:08:56.966 --> 00:08:57.767 that it was manual 00:08:57.787 --> 00:08:59.087 manipulative therapy that 00:08:59.148 --> 00:09:00.048 helped drive this, 00:09:00.148 --> 00:09:01.589 yet that was an obstacle in 00:09:01.609 --> 00:09:02.889 the beginning working with 00:09:03.028 --> 00:09:04.788 APTA and then the 00:09:04.869 --> 00:09:06.110 subsequent steps that you 00:09:06.490 --> 00:09:08.009 went through to compromise. 00:09:08.149 --> 00:09:09.171 Well, let me be clear. 00:09:09.211 --> 00:09:10.211 I certainly was interested 00:09:10.230 --> 00:09:14.091 in orthopedics and sports. 00:09:14.731 --> 00:09:15.532 I was the first ever 00:09:15.572 --> 00:09:16.592 physical therapist to the 00:09:16.613 --> 00:09:18.972 Olympic team at Rome 1960 00:09:18.972 --> 00:09:20.974 and again 1968 in Mexico. 00:09:21.413 --> 00:09:23.333 So I had a broad orthopedic 00:09:23.413 --> 00:09:24.955 musculoskeletal background. 00:09:25.778 --> 00:09:27.860 But I felt that those things 00:09:28.159 --> 00:09:30.260 were acceptable in physical therapy, 00:09:30.301 --> 00:09:31.621 sports, and orthopedics, 00:09:32.142 --> 00:09:34.263 where what was not accepted 00:09:34.283 --> 00:09:35.663 and what should become 00:09:35.703 --> 00:09:37.184 accepted and is now 00:09:37.264 --> 00:09:38.784 accepted was manual and 00:09:38.804 --> 00:09:39.666 manipulative therapy. 00:09:39.706 --> 00:09:41.267 So that's where I placed my efforts, 00:09:42.226 --> 00:09:43.267 principally in that area. 00:09:45.268 --> 00:09:46.149 You mentioned a couple of 00:09:46.548 --> 00:09:48.450 key people that you collaborated with, 00:09:49.450 --> 00:09:52.331 Ron Payton, Eugene Michaels, 00:09:52.371 --> 00:09:54.513 who was the APTA president at that time. 00:09:55.571 --> 00:09:56.292 Who are some of the other 00:09:56.351 --> 00:09:58.614 key individuals that you 00:09:58.673 --> 00:10:00.534 collaborated with to make this happen? 00:10:01.456 --> 00:10:01.735 Well, 00:10:02.636 --> 00:10:04.437 I guess a number of people on the board, 00:10:05.798 --> 00:10:07.059 not too many educators 00:10:07.240 --> 00:10:09.182 because they were against manipulation. 00:10:10.938 --> 00:10:11.980 They being very much under 00:10:12.000 --> 00:10:13.500 the control of the medical profession. 00:10:14.542 --> 00:10:15.883 I came to America as a 00:10:15.923 --> 00:10:18.024 faculty position at Boston University. 00:10:18.705 --> 00:10:21.907 I think I got the job based on my resume. 00:10:22.187 --> 00:10:24.048 I'd published a couple of articles, 00:10:24.249 --> 00:10:25.089 one in the New Zealand 00:10:25.129 --> 00:10:27.250 Medical Journal and a textbook. 00:10:27.990 --> 00:10:28.971 Both were on the spine. 00:10:29.576 --> 00:10:31.379 both advocated manipulation. 00:10:32.058 --> 00:10:33.600 But when I got my job, 00:10:33.640 --> 00:10:34.620 I don't think anybody had 00:10:34.721 --> 00:10:36.363 read what I was writing about. 00:10:36.962 --> 00:10:38.424 But soon after I arrived, 00:10:38.465 --> 00:10:40.166 they took a look at my book 00:10:40.265 --> 00:10:41.626 and saw that I advocated 00:10:41.687 --> 00:10:43.208 manipulation and they 00:10:43.269 --> 00:10:45.471 forbade me to lecture, edit, write, teach, 00:10:45.671 --> 00:10:48.613 associate with that field at all. 00:10:49.033 --> 00:10:50.434 So I resigned from the university, 00:10:50.475 --> 00:10:50.794 of course, 00:10:52.035 --> 00:10:53.376 and went into private practice 00:10:53.597 --> 00:10:54.958 and started teaching seminars. 00:10:55.918 --> 00:10:57.360 But the people who I was 00:10:57.419 --> 00:10:58.360 associated with the 00:10:58.400 --> 00:11:01.342 founding of the orthopedic 00:11:01.363 --> 00:11:03.004 section were the people 00:11:03.063 --> 00:11:04.365 like Sandy Burkhart, 00:11:04.605 --> 00:11:05.446 who I've seen you've 00:11:05.485 --> 00:11:08.167 interviewed already and who 00:11:08.187 --> 00:11:09.268 subsequently has passed. 00:11:09.707 --> 00:11:11.328 I'm very pleased that you 00:11:11.369 --> 00:11:13.071 got to interview him before 00:11:13.110 --> 00:11:14.350 his untimely departure. 00:11:15.231 --> 00:11:17.153 Peter Edulo, who has also passed. 00:11:17.854 --> 00:11:19.235 And there was Dorothy Santee. 00:11:20.948 --> 00:11:23.769 She and I wrote the history at one point, 00:11:23.850 --> 00:11:25.830 and I thank you for sending 00:11:25.870 --> 00:11:26.549 me that article. 00:11:26.571 --> 00:11:27.370 I had misplaced it. 00:11:27.931 --> 00:11:29.910 Stan Schlachter and Walt Personius. 00:11:30.471 --> 00:11:31.392 And I'm sure there were many 00:11:31.471 --> 00:11:32.971 others that helped us in 00:11:32.991 --> 00:11:33.711 the initial year. 00:11:34.552 --> 00:11:36.793 What I did early on is I stepped down. 00:11:37.232 --> 00:11:38.773 When you start an organization, 00:11:39.633 --> 00:11:41.254 everyone gets like a four-year term. 00:11:41.894 --> 00:11:43.955 But if everyone kept their four year term, 00:11:44.394 --> 00:11:45.115 at the end of that, 00:11:46.115 --> 00:11:47.777 everyone would go and you'd 00:11:47.817 --> 00:11:49.418 be replaced with a bunch of novices. 00:11:49.957 --> 00:11:51.119 So I only took a two year 00:11:51.158 --> 00:11:53.419 term just to help start the rotation. 00:11:53.720 --> 00:11:55.400 And a couple of others did the same thing. 00:11:57.802 --> 00:12:00.124 You know, part of your role as president, 00:12:00.384 --> 00:12:02.424 you were also editor of the Bulletin, 00:12:02.684 --> 00:12:03.044 correct? 00:12:03.586 --> 00:12:03.865 Yes. 00:12:03.926 --> 00:12:05.726 Well, that started out as a newsletter. 00:12:08.091 --> 00:12:09.433 and then became a bulletin, 00:12:10.174 --> 00:12:12.076 but I soon appreciated the 00:12:12.317 --> 00:12:13.558 skills of Jim Gould. 00:12:14.921 --> 00:12:17.364 And I could see that Jim was 00:12:17.423 --> 00:12:18.225 a better writer, 00:12:18.345 --> 00:12:21.129 editor than was I. And his 00:12:21.950 --> 00:12:23.071 partner in practice, 00:12:24.961 --> 00:12:25.961 was George Davies. 00:12:26.601 --> 00:12:28.462 And George Davies' interest was sports. 00:12:29.384 --> 00:12:32.586 And Jim's was obviously orthopedics. 00:12:33.326 --> 00:12:34.706 The two of them had practiced together, 00:12:34.767 --> 00:12:35.847 so it made good sense. 00:12:36.568 --> 00:12:38.730 And I said to Jim, you know, 00:12:38.750 --> 00:12:39.791 you're taking this over. 00:12:40.230 --> 00:12:41.091 You need to go down to 00:12:41.152 --> 00:12:42.172 Williams and Wilkins in 00:12:42.211 --> 00:12:43.613 Baltimore and talk about 00:12:43.653 --> 00:12:44.594 starting a journal. 00:12:45.333 --> 00:12:47.176 And they together agreed on 00:12:47.216 --> 00:12:48.035 starting a journal of 00:12:48.096 --> 00:12:49.596 orthopedic and sports physical therapy. 00:12:49.996 --> 00:12:51.538 I think that was a brilliant stroke, 00:12:51.979 --> 00:12:53.379 bringing those two things together. 00:12:54.279 --> 00:12:55.760 I compliment both of them for that. 00:12:57.041 --> 00:12:57.541 Yeah, 00:12:58.081 --> 00:13:00.121 it was a great synergy between the two. 00:13:00.142 --> 00:13:01.081 Actually, 00:13:01.101 --> 00:13:03.363 the JOSPT is celebrating its 45th 00:13:03.423 --> 00:13:04.102 anniversary. 00:13:04.123 --> 00:13:05.464 That's about right. 00:13:05.823 --> 00:13:07.203 I interviewed George Davies 00:13:07.283 --> 00:13:08.945 and he talked about how he and Jim would 00:13:09.789 --> 00:13:10.471 The families would get 00:13:10.510 --> 00:13:12.052 together and they would put 00:13:12.131 --> 00:13:13.852 labels on the journals and 00:13:13.913 --> 00:13:14.793 take them to the post 00:13:14.933 --> 00:13:16.355 office to put them in the mail. 00:13:16.535 --> 00:13:17.976 It's just kind of unbelievable. 00:13:18.336 --> 00:13:18.977 I did that with the 00:13:19.038 --> 00:13:20.759 orthopedic bulletin for quite a while. 00:13:22.320 --> 00:13:23.100 There as well. 00:13:24.581 --> 00:13:26.403 So starting any organization 00:13:26.524 --> 00:13:27.924 is not an easy task. 00:13:28.044 --> 00:13:29.846 What were some of the major 00:13:29.926 --> 00:13:31.607 challenges that you and 00:13:31.648 --> 00:13:32.869 your first board faced? 00:13:34.565 --> 00:13:34.845 Well, 00:13:36.166 --> 00:13:37.686 I knew very little about starting an 00:13:38.066 --> 00:13:39.126 organization and there was 00:13:39.167 --> 00:13:40.506 no sort of model to do it. 00:13:41.106 --> 00:13:42.467 So I had to hire attorneys 00:13:42.587 --> 00:13:44.068 and of course had to fund these things. 00:13:45.589 --> 00:13:47.610 I guess getting people to 00:13:47.669 --> 00:13:48.769 realize that coming to 00:13:48.809 --> 00:13:50.030 seminars was not enough. 00:13:50.854 --> 00:13:52.235 that we had to work as a 00:13:52.495 --> 00:13:55.477 body to improve the whole profession, 00:13:55.538 --> 00:13:57.318 not just our own practice skills, 00:13:57.739 --> 00:13:58.659 but the whole profession 00:13:58.740 --> 00:14:00.760 and get an organization together. 00:14:01.221 --> 00:14:02.442 So getting interest in that, 00:14:02.883 --> 00:14:04.203 I thought would be very difficult. 00:14:04.663 --> 00:14:05.684 But as you learned, 00:14:07.278 --> 00:14:08.159 we founded the North 00:14:08.179 --> 00:14:08.961 American Academy of 00:14:09.000 --> 00:14:11.783 Manipulation Therapy in 1967. 00:14:11.783 --> 00:14:14.326 Seven years later, we had 942 members. 00:14:14.846 --> 00:14:16.587 That's pretty big back then. 00:14:17.349 --> 00:14:20.052 And so it had a momentum to it. 00:14:20.591 --> 00:14:21.232 In those days, 00:14:22.625 --> 00:14:23.565 Manual and manipulative 00:14:23.605 --> 00:14:26.067 therapy was not taught at 00:14:26.106 --> 00:14:27.427 schools of physical therapy 00:14:27.988 --> 00:14:28.927 to undergraduates. 00:14:29.008 --> 00:14:30.448 It was taught to graduates 00:14:30.928 --> 00:14:32.549 who had clinical experience. 00:14:33.269 --> 00:14:36.091 They came with a desire to learn more, 00:14:36.751 --> 00:14:38.251 to improve their efficiency 00:14:38.392 --> 00:14:39.293 at treating patients. 00:14:40.225 --> 00:14:41.105 And they appreciated 00:14:41.166 --> 00:14:42.528 everything that they could 00:14:42.567 --> 00:14:44.009 receive from experienced 00:14:44.309 --> 00:14:45.490 teachers like myself. 00:14:45.932 --> 00:14:48.654 We brought Carlton Bonover from Norway. 00:14:48.695 --> 00:14:51.076 We brought Rocco Bardo up from Chile. 00:14:51.557 --> 00:14:52.558 And we had others coming 00:14:52.599 --> 00:14:54.660 down from Canada to help 00:14:54.701 --> 00:14:57.063 teach and enlarge our scope 00:14:57.083 --> 00:14:58.605 of practice in manual and 00:14:58.625 --> 00:14:59.447 manipulative therapy. 00:15:00.451 --> 00:15:01.472 There was a great excitement. 00:15:01.932 --> 00:15:03.092 Today we're faced with a 00:15:03.354 --> 00:15:05.394 different situation where 00:15:06.034 --> 00:15:06.875 manual and manipulative 00:15:06.895 --> 00:15:09.157 therapy is now required to be instructed, 00:15:09.317 --> 00:15:10.577 including thrust techniques, 00:15:10.878 --> 00:15:12.057 which I'm totally opposed to, 00:15:12.077 --> 00:15:13.719 to students. 00:15:14.440 --> 00:15:16.461 And that's often being taught by 00:15:16.941 --> 00:15:18.662 faculty who are not active 00:15:18.741 --> 00:15:20.702 clinically and never attain 00:15:20.763 --> 00:15:23.504 the advanced skills required for this. 00:15:23.943 --> 00:15:25.764 And so I think today now 00:15:26.225 --> 00:15:28.946 there's like with massage or massage, 00:15:29.426 --> 00:15:30.687 there's kind of a loss of interest. 00:15:30.726 --> 00:15:32.106 They think they graduate 00:15:32.167 --> 00:15:33.607 knowing it and they really don't. 00:15:34.248 --> 00:15:36.288 And so manual immunotherapy 00:15:36.629 --> 00:15:37.568 in some respects is 00:15:37.610 --> 00:15:39.570 struggling to maintain the 00:15:39.610 --> 00:15:40.990 standard that it once had. 00:15:43.143 --> 00:15:43.462 Yeah, 00:15:43.543 --> 00:15:45.563 there was a recent publication in the 00:15:45.664 --> 00:15:46.784 Physical Therapy Journal 00:15:48.485 --> 00:15:51.168 looking at the modern 00:15:51.187 --> 00:15:53.408 definition of orthopedic manual therapy. 00:15:56.571 --> 00:15:58.272 Jason Silverthorne, Gail Dial, 00:15:58.292 --> 00:15:59.993 Gail Jensen were amongst the group. 00:16:00.072 --> 00:16:01.214 And hopefully that 00:16:01.293 --> 00:16:03.534 publication will help guide 00:16:03.554 --> 00:16:06.317 the profession as this area evolves. 00:16:07.076 --> 00:16:07.277 Yes, 00:16:07.336 --> 00:16:08.778 I think it's an excellent publication. 00:16:08.798 --> 00:16:09.798 There was quite a few 00:16:09.859 --> 00:16:11.080 authors signed on to it too, 00:16:11.120 --> 00:16:11.639 which was good. 00:16:12.219 --> 00:16:12.960 Yes, yes. 00:16:13.000 --> 00:16:14.760 That was published in March of this, 00:16:14.900 --> 00:16:15.121 of 2024. 00:16:15.121 --> 00:16:15.522 Right. 00:16:15.861 --> 00:16:17.764 I also found it interesting 00:16:17.823 --> 00:16:19.705 that early on as you, 00:16:20.005 --> 00:16:21.647 as this organization evolved, 00:16:21.687 --> 00:16:23.629 you outsourced some activities. 00:16:23.729 --> 00:16:24.850 I noted that Florence 00:16:24.909 --> 00:16:26.650 Kendall was brought in to 00:16:26.951 --> 00:16:28.232 help create the early 00:16:28.312 --> 00:16:30.695 bylaws or revamp the bylaws. 00:16:30.975 --> 00:16:31.554 Revamped them. 00:16:32.015 --> 00:16:32.316 Yeah. 00:16:32.336 --> 00:16:33.356 So you tapped into other 00:16:33.397 --> 00:16:34.357 resources within the 00:16:34.398 --> 00:16:35.558 profession at that time. 00:16:36.533 --> 00:16:36.732 Well, 00:16:36.913 --> 00:16:39.317 and that's the role of a chairman or 00:16:39.356 --> 00:16:42.522 president to reach out and 00:16:42.722 --> 00:16:44.304 make the whole thing work. 00:16:44.725 --> 00:16:46.749 It's a leadership role and 00:16:47.029 --> 00:16:48.412 no one can know it all. 00:16:48.831 --> 00:16:49.913 And even if you do know it all, 00:16:49.933 --> 00:16:51.436 you don't have enough energy. 00:16:51.956 --> 00:16:53.177 It requires a lot of energy 00:16:53.197 --> 00:16:54.738 from a lot of people to 00:16:54.778 --> 00:16:56.178 make something like a 00:16:56.519 --> 00:16:59.160 section now academy be successful. 00:16:59.701 --> 00:17:01.162 And we could see the interest, 00:17:01.562 --> 00:17:02.942 but we were being watched 00:17:02.961 --> 00:17:04.542 very carefully by the APTA 00:17:04.903 --> 00:17:06.223 that was not happy about 00:17:06.304 --> 00:17:07.964 our having being formed and 00:17:08.005 --> 00:17:11.686 was concerned about clinical sections. 00:17:12.507 --> 00:17:16.387 That concern went away by about 1978, 00:17:16.387 --> 00:17:18.269 I think, within just a few years. 00:17:18.669 --> 00:17:20.309 Other sections started to form too. 00:17:20.809 --> 00:17:21.509 And now, as you know, 00:17:21.529 --> 00:17:22.609 the combined section 00:17:22.650 --> 00:17:25.111 meeting is the most big meeting, 00:17:25.131 --> 00:17:27.172 the only big meeting of APTA now, 00:17:27.632 --> 00:17:28.932 and it's highly successful. 00:17:29.491 --> 00:17:30.613 And so we are now a 00:17:30.712 --> 00:17:32.093 profession that recognizes 00:17:32.452 --> 00:17:33.394 clinical specialty. 00:17:34.693 --> 00:17:36.954 Yeah, very much so. 00:17:39.065 --> 00:17:39.904 In hindsight, 00:17:41.266 --> 00:17:44.347 in terms of the approval process, 00:17:44.548 --> 00:17:46.329 the early days of the section, 00:17:47.049 --> 00:17:47.750 anything you would do 00:17:47.830 --> 00:17:49.612 differently that may have 00:17:49.692 --> 00:17:51.252 sped things up or made 00:17:51.492 --> 00:17:52.574 things a little easier in 00:17:52.614 --> 00:17:53.493 subsequent years? 00:17:54.295 --> 00:17:54.494 Well, 00:17:54.714 --> 00:17:55.756 thank you for sending me these 00:17:55.816 --> 00:17:56.756 questions in advance. 00:17:57.277 --> 00:17:58.356 I appreciated that. 00:17:58.778 --> 00:18:00.278 And I gave a bit of thought to that. 00:18:02.400 --> 00:18:04.000 The compromise that we made 00:18:04.801 --> 00:18:06.383 in forming the orthopedic section 00:18:07.676 --> 00:18:09.117 was probably necessary, 00:18:09.739 --> 00:18:11.319 but I think in retrospect, 00:18:13.061 --> 00:18:13.803 it would have been better 00:18:13.863 --> 00:18:15.503 if we had not made that compromise. 00:18:16.365 --> 00:18:17.405 But that if we said, yes, 00:18:17.465 --> 00:18:18.886 go form an orthopedic section, 00:18:19.287 --> 00:18:20.888 but we need a section on 00:18:20.929 --> 00:18:22.369 manual and manipulative therapy. 00:18:23.090 --> 00:18:24.352 And we never got that. 00:18:24.751 --> 00:18:25.932 We became part of the 00:18:25.972 --> 00:18:27.654 orthopedic section and 00:18:27.795 --> 00:18:29.336 overshadowed by it eventually. 00:18:30.215 --> 00:18:32.519 But our problem was we in 00:18:32.558 --> 00:18:33.460 manual and manipulative 00:18:33.480 --> 00:18:35.542 therapy wanted to belong to IFOMT, 00:18:36.044 --> 00:18:36.704 the International 00:18:36.744 --> 00:18:37.925 Federation of Orthopedic 00:18:37.986 --> 00:18:39.248 Manipulative Therapy, 00:18:39.567 --> 00:18:41.150 now Manipulative Physical Therapy. 00:18:42.251 --> 00:18:43.574 And in order to do that, 00:18:43.634 --> 00:18:45.016 you had to pass an exam. 00:18:46.144 --> 00:18:48.266 And the section and academy 00:18:48.326 --> 00:18:49.846 structure does not allow 00:18:49.967 --> 00:18:51.568 membership by examination. 00:18:52.269 --> 00:18:54.932 Anybody can join any section they want. 00:18:55.092 --> 00:18:56.393 I could join the pelvic 00:18:56.432 --> 00:18:58.075 section tomorrow if I 00:18:58.115 --> 00:18:59.476 wanted to or the sports 00:18:59.516 --> 00:19:02.198 section tomorrow just by paying my fee. 00:19:02.979 --> 00:19:04.299 But to be a member of IFONC, 00:19:04.339 --> 00:19:05.461 you can only be a voting 00:19:05.520 --> 00:19:07.423 member of your section or 00:19:07.583 --> 00:19:09.484 organization if you've 00:19:09.525 --> 00:19:11.526 passed the qualifying exams 00:19:11.866 --> 00:19:13.048 that met the standards. 00:19:14.130 --> 00:19:16.018 the standards for practicing 00:19:16.057 --> 00:19:17.282 manual and manipular therapy. 00:19:17.644 --> 00:19:18.548 And we couldn't do that 00:19:18.587 --> 00:19:19.752 within the orthopedic section. 00:19:21.124 --> 00:19:21.904 That's one of the main 00:19:21.964 --> 00:19:23.185 reasons we eventually broke 00:19:23.226 --> 00:19:24.366 away and formed the 00:19:24.406 --> 00:19:25.167 American Academy of 00:19:25.248 --> 00:19:26.828 Ultimate Manipulative Physical Therapy. 00:19:27.589 --> 00:19:28.631 I think from the start, 00:19:28.691 --> 00:19:29.852 if we had held out on that, 00:19:30.813 --> 00:19:31.733 it might have been a better 00:19:31.753 --> 00:19:33.515 approach and we would still 00:19:33.635 --> 00:19:35.176 be closer united to the 00:19:35.257 --> 00:19:37.659 APTA than we are now as a 00:19:37.699 --> 00:19:38.660 freestanding body. 00:19:39.161 --> 00:19:40.801 But it would have taken APTA 00:19:40.862 --> 00:19:42.344 to recognize that some 00:19:42.403 --> 00:19:43.545 sections of our academies 00:19:44.005 --> 00:19:45.405 have the right to be exclusive 00:19:46.027 --> 00:19:48.106 to those who have passed an exam. 00:19:48.307 --> 00:19:50.508 They can be an affiliate member, 00:19:50.528 --> 00:19:51.468 associate member, 00:19:51.488 --> 00:19:52.627 but not a voting member 00:19:52.988 --> 00:19:54.909 until they've passed the qualifying exam. 00:19:55.729 --> 00:19:57.128 I think that would have been a good move, 00:19:57.669 --> 00:19:58.189 and it would have been 00:19:58.250 --> 00:19:59.289 interesting to see how that 00:19:59.329 --> 00:20:00.049 would have affected 00:20:00.109 --> 00:20:01.670 residencies and fellowships today. 00:20:02.309 --> 00:20:03.351 Right, right. 00:20:03.611 --> 00:20:05.330 So it may have delayed the 00:20:05.431 --> 00:20:08.412 formation a while, but in the long run, 00:20:08.531 --> 00:20:12.011 that may have been a better process, 00:20:12.071 --> 00:20:12.811 a better outcome. 00:20:13.252 --> 00:20:14.393 Right, I can't be sure of that, 00:20:14.573 --> 00:20:15.212 but there we are. 00:20:15.796 --> 00:20:16.876 Yeah. 00:20:17.696 --> 00:20:17.896 Okay. 00:20:19.278 --> 00:20:20.377 I've asked this to everybody 00:20:20.419 --> 00:20:21.898 I've interviewed, 00:20:21.999 --> 00:20:23.660 had some pretty good comments with this, 00:20:23.680 --> 00:20:25.221 but any behind the scenes 00:20:25.441 --> 00:20:26.981 humorous events that people 00:20:27.122 --> 00:20:28.383 never would be aware of by 00:20:28.442 --> 00:20:29.923 reading the newsletter or 00:20:29.963 --> 00:20:31.344 the bulletin or the journal? 00:20:32.845 --> 00:20:34.226 Any such events that you recall? 00:20:34.965 --> 00:20:36.386 Well, in truth, I don't. 00:20:36.926 --> 00:20:38.208 Maybe I lack a sense of humor. 00:20:38.268 --> 00:20:38.748 I don't know. 00:20:41.157 --> 00:20:42.219 can remember some very fine 00:20:42.259 --> 00:20:43.319 dinners I can remember 00:20:43.759 --> 00:20:44.640 going to a dinner at one 00:20:44.680 --> 00:20:45.540 night at one function we 00:20:45.560 --> 00:20:46.741 had a belly dancer come up 00:20:46.761 --> 00:20:48.143 to our table which was 00:20:48.182 --> 00:20:49.243 quite interesting I spilt 00:20:49.284 --> 00:20:53.405 my soup um but uh but I 00:20:53.445 --> 00:20:55.428 can't remember anything um 00:20:56.268 --> 00:20:57.949 that uh would be of 00:20:58.009 --> 00:20:59.851 interest to members no okay 00:20:59.911 --> 00:21:01.612 how about that bill well no 00:21:01.672 --> 00:21:02.873 fair enough fair enough 00:21:04.314 --> 00:21:05.796 So then I'll flip that a little bit. 00:21:06.017 --> 00:21:08.760 Reflecting on your selection experiences, 00:21:09.241 --> 00:21:11.305 what do you value most from 00:21:11.345 --> 00:21:12.727 the experiences that you've had? 00:21:13.432 --> 00:21:13.573 Oh, 00:21:13.613 --> 00:21:16.315 I think the collegiality and I think 00:21:16.355 --> 00:21:17.675 being involved in a section 00:21:18.297 --> 00:21:20.278 and becoming an officer is 00:21:20.337 --> 00:21:21.699 a tremendous personal 00:21:21.778 --> 00:21:23.681 learning experience because 00:21:23.740 --> 00:21:24.801 now you're seated with 00:21:24.882 --> 00:21:28.044 people who are as energetic 00:21:28.223 --> 00:21:30.566 and as convinced about 00:21:30.625 --> 00:21:31.886 their position as you are 00:21:32.007 --> 00:21:33.749 of yours and wanting to 00:21:33.808 --> 00:21:35.150 contribute to a whole. 00:21:36.029 --> 00:21:37.872 You get on a team of people 00:21:38.795 --> 00:21:40.435 all of who've got hopefully 00:21:40.875 --> 00:21:42.257 different talents that they 00:21:42.277 --> 00:21:43.018 bring to bear. 00:21:43.878 --> 00:21:45.900 And you don't get that in business. 00:21:46.799 --> 00:21:47.201 You get, 00:21:47.340 --> 00:21:48.721 because there's always a leader in 00:21:48.781 --> 00:21:49.201 business. 00:21:49.602 --> 00:21:50.262 That's why, again, 00:21:50.323 --> 00:21:51.364 I like the term chairman 00:21:51.403 --> 00:21:52.223 rather than president, 00:21:52.564 --> 00:21:53.505 because presidents tend to 00:21:53.545 --> 00:21:55.185 become arrogant leaders. 00:21:55.866 --> 00:21:58.667 I like chairman who bring 00:21:58.709 --> 00:21:59.929 together the collective 00:22:00.028 --> 00:22:00.930 wisdom of a group. 00:22:01.851 --> 00:22:03.872 And my concept of chairman 00:22:03.912 --> 00:22:05.073 is they don't get to vote. 00:22:06.068 --> 00:22:07.128 And that's to break a tie. 00:22:07.849 --> 00:22:09.509 They get just to marshal 00:22:09.650 --> 00:22:12.611 opinions and get things done. 00:22:13.310 --> 00:22:14.991 And I like that. 00:22:15.291 --> 00:22:16.813 But so that's a great experience. 00:22:17.173 --> 00:22:18.633 So if you join a section, 00:22:19.733 --> 00:22:21.453 and everybody should join 00:22:21.513 --> 00:22:22.054 one or two of them, 00:22:22.153 --> 00:22:23.375 particularly in their younger years, 00:22:24.755 --> 00:22:26.336 and if you step up and volunteer, 00:22:27.215 --> 00:22:28.977 to take part because there's 00:22:29.017 --> 00:22:30.498 always committees that you can get on. 00:22:30.958 --> 00:22:33.199 And then after getting to 00:22:33.259 --> 00:22:34.019 understand things, 00:22:34.400 --> 00:22:35.961 prepare yourself by 00:22:35.980 --> 00:22:37.401 learning Robert's Rules of Order, 00:22:37.842 --> 00:22:39.021 spend some time studying 00:22:39.061 --> 00:22:40.843 that because that teaches 00:22:40.883 --> 00:22:42.483 you governance and teaches 00:22:42.523 --> 00:22:43.684 you how to give up and 00:22:43.744 --> 00:22:45.625 speak and make changes to 00:22:45.705 --> 00:22:47.787 motions and improve motions. 00:22:48.507 --> 00:22:49.846 and also to present your own 00:22:49.968 --> 00:22:51.268 ideas and defend them. 00:22:51.788 --> 00:22:53.229 Without knowing Robert's Rules, 00:22:53.648 --> 00:22:55.009 you can be railroaded by 00:22:55.028 --> 00:22:56.650 anybody who doesn't approve 00:22:56.670 --> 00:22:57.869 of what you're trying to get done. 00:22:58.309 --> 00:22:59.711 So it's an essential skill 00:23:00.131 --> 00:23:01.431 for young people to develop 00:23:01.770 --> 00:23:02.791 in an association. 00:23:03.092 --> 00:23:04.612 And it facilitates the whole 00:23:04.652 --> 00:23:06.093 process for everybody when 00:23:06.133 --> 00:23:07.472 people understand Robert's Rules. 00:23:07.813 --> 00:23:09.193 So it's a great experience, 00:23:09.253 --> 00:23:11.054 and I encourage the youth 00:23:11.094 --> 00:23:12.154 of our profession to get 00:23:12.234 --> 00:23:16.036 involved in their specialty areas, 00:23:16.655 --> 00:23:17.876 and get involved on 00:23:17.936 --> 00:23:19.257 committees and eventually 00:23:19.336 --> 00:23:21.698 on the executive of their section, 00:23:22.377 --> 00:23:22.878 academy. 00:23:24.459 --> 00:23:25.480 I would agree with you in 00:23:25.559 --> 00:23:28.381 terms of the value of 00:23:28.701 --> 00:23:30.162 belonging and participating. 00:23:31.082 --> 00:23:31.741 It's the people. 00:23:32.643 --> 00:23:34.423 People you meet, you get to know, 00:23:34.522 --> 00:23:35.663 and that you develop 00:23:36.144 --> 00:23:37.023 collegial relationships 00:23:37.044 --> 00:23:38.884 with that last your entire career, 00:23:40.185 --> 00:23:41.365 which really make the time 00:23:41.425 --> 00:23:42.906 investment well worthwhile. 00:23:45.288 --> 00:23:45.567 Yeah. 00:23:46.508 --> 00:23:47.627 In terms of early career, 00:23:47.688 --> 00:23:48.749 you gave some good advice 00:23:48.769 --> 00:23:49.769 in terms of how to get 00:23:49.808 --> 00:23:53.951 involved and starting on a committee. 00:23:54.070 --> 00:23:55.550 But understanding how 00:23:55.651 --> 00:23:56.612 business is done at 00:23:56.652 --> 00:23:58.832 Robert's Rules is a really 00:23:58.892 --> 00:24:00.573 important part of that process. 00:24:02.554 --> 00:24:03.193 And mentoring. 00:24:03.213 --> 00:24:03.493 I mean, 00:24:03.894 --> 00:24:06.194 current leaders and mentoring early 00:24:06.275 --> 00:24:08.455 career or mid-career 00:24:08.776 --> 00:24:09.996 physical therapists and 00:24:10.195 --> 00:24:12.277 help them assume and help 00:24:12.317 --> 00:24:13.537 them qualify for leadership 00:24:13.596 --> 00:24:15.317 roles is all part of that. 00:24:16.823 --> 00:24:18.364 Any other advice related to 00:24:18.503 --> 00:24:19.604 getting involved and 00:24:19.765 --> 00:24:22.605 starting to assume leadership positions, 00:24:22.665 --> 00:24:23.445 leadership roles? 00:24:24.846 --> 00:24:26.528 Yeah, step back, 00:24:26.607 --> 00:24:29.788 take a look at how things 00:24:29.868 --> 00:24:30.469 are functioning. 00:24:31.470 --> 00:24:32.549 Everything can be improved. 00:24:34.790 --> 00:24:36.152 Any motion or anything we 00:24:36.211 --> 00:24:38.173 approve of today as to how 00:24:38.212 --> 00:24:39.752 we should do something will 00:24:39.772 --> 00:24:40.894 probably not be the way we 00:24:40.933 --> 00:24:41.594 do it in 30 years. 00:24:41.614 --> 00:24:41.834 Right. 00:24:44.332 --> 00:24:45.532 Not in 20 years. 00:24:45.772 --> 00:24:46.813 So why wait that long? 00:24:47.433 --> 00:24:48.513 You should almost be doing 00:24:48.554 --> 00:24:50.035 continuous quality improvement. 00:24:50.454 --> 00:24:53.057 So you can critique anything 00:24:53.596 --> 00:24:55.178 in a sense of saying, all right, 00:24:55.218 --> 00:24:56.278 when this comes up again, 00:24:56.538 --> 00:24:57.538 it could be improved by 00:24:57.598 --> 00:24:58.519 doing such and such. 00:24:59.059 --> 00:25:02.281 So be skeptical of our best 00:25:02.382 --> 00:25:04.262 efforts and look for ways 00:25:04.343 --> 00:25:06.284 to improve them because that can be done. 00:25:07.183 --> 00:25:08.025 And the other thing I'd say, 00:25:08.065 --> 00:25:09.945 just step up and volunteer. 00:25:10.486 --> 00:25:11.666 I think volunteering... 00:25:12.702 --> 00:25:13.703 one of the most powerful 00:25:13.763 --> 00:25:16.186 tools I mean how did I get 00:25:16.227 --> 00:25:17.268 to be the first ever 00:25:17.568 --> 00:25:18.670 physical therapist on an 00:25:18.690 --> 00:25:21.071 olympic team I had no 00:25:21.132 --> 00:25:23.074 experience but I was going 00:25:23.154 --> 00:25:24.435 over to europe to study and 00:25:24.455 --> 00:25:25.416 I thought I might go down 00:25:25.457 --> 00:25:26.758 to the olympics so I wrote 00:25:26.798 --> 00:25:28.780 to the olympic committee in new zealand 00:25:30.136 --> 00:25:32.117 And I said, I'm going to be in Rome. 00:25:32.397 --> 00:25:33.459 I'd be happy to come into 00:25:33.479 --> 00:25:35.160 the village each day. 00:25:35.220 --> 00:25:36.440 I'll stay at a youth hostel. 00:25:36.901 --> 00:25:38.300 I'll come in on my scooter 00:25:38.902 --> 00:25:40.643 and treat anybody who needs treating. 00:25:41.182 --> 00:25:42.022 And the next thing I knew, 00:25:42.282 --> 00:25:43.663 they appointed me a member. 00:25:44.203 --> 00:25:45.144 I think the fact that I got 00:25:45.204 --> 00:25:47.806 myself there at my own cost helped. 00:25:47.986 --> 00:25:49.527 I walked on with the uniform 00:25:49.606 --> 00:25:50.468 and everything and the 00:25:50.548 --> 00:25:51.548 opening ceremonies and 00:25:51.968 --> 00:25:53.068 could get to go see all the 00:25:53.148 --> 00:25:54.609 events because I was on 00:25:54.690 --> 00:25:56.711 medical services is what my badge said. 00:25:57.090 --> 00:25:58.372 And that got you into everything. 00:25:59.394 --> 00:26:00.636 So it was a great experience. 00:26:00.696 --> 00:26:02.200 And I repeated it a couple of times. 00:26:02.279 --> 00:26:03.582 Also, the Commonwealth Games. 00:26:04.262 --> 00:26:07.887 But I only got there by volunteering, 00:26:08.148 --> 00:26:09.130 showing the initiative. 00:26:09.912 --> 00:26:11.554 And I think that's true of a 00:26:11.574 --> 00:26:12.695 lot of things in life. 00:26:14.106 --> 00:26:14.626 Yeah, you're right. 00:26:14.728 --> 00:26:16.429 If you wait for the door to open, 00:26:16.689 --> 00:26:17.750 it may never open. 00:26:17.849 --> 00:26:19.172 And so you need to knock on the door. 00:26:19.192 --> 00:26:20.031 It doesn't mean all doors 00:26:20.051 --> 00:26:21.113 are going to open for you, 00:26:21.212 --> 00:26:22.193 but generally they won't 00:26:22.213 --> 00:26:23.736 without you knocking on those doors. 00:26:23.875 --> 00:26:25.356 Oh, I like what you've just said. 00:26:25.396 --> 00:26:27.038 That takes me to Winston Churchill. 00:26:27.618 --> 00:26:29.280 He had a very similar statement. 00:26:29.921 --> 00:26:30.340 He said, 00:26:30.361 --> 00:26:33.243 it takes someone to open the door 00:26:33.324 --> 00:26:37.228 for you and you must ask for that favor. 00:26:38.202 --> 00:26:39.483 But when that favor has been 00:26:39.523 --> 00:26:41.025 granted and that door has 00:26:41.085 --> 00:26:42.066 been opened for you, 00:26:42.526 --> 00:26:43.928 don't ever let that person 00:26:43.968 --> 00:26:46.569 down who opened the door for you. 00:26:47.369 --> 00:26:49.071 Thank them and honor them. 00:26:49.612 --> 00:26:51.113 And that was one of 00:26:51.212 --> 00:26:53.434 Churchill's way of making progress. 00:26:53.816 --> 00:26:55.217 He never hesitated to ask a 00:26:55.257 --> 00:26:56.998 favor of someone to advance 00:26:57.038 --> 00:26:58.439 himself and his ideas. 00:26:59.039 --> 00:27:00.020 But he always remembered 00:27:00.221 --> 00:27:02.122 them and was respectful to 00:27:02.142 --> 00:27:02.982 the people who helped him. 00:27:06.400 --> 00:27:06.680 Stanley, 00:27:06.720 --> 00:27:09.622 the upcoming college conversations, 00:27:09.662 --> 00:27:11.884 we're going to flip to the future, 00:27:12.163 --> 00:27:13.625 you know, the next 10 years, 00:27:13.684 --> 00:27:14.665 next 20 years. 00:27:15.207 --> 00:27:16.186 What do you see the biggest 00:27:16.247 --> 00:27:18.729 challenges facing not only the academy, 00:27:18.788 --> 00:27:20.329 but the profession overall? 00:27:21.990 --> 00:27:25.013 Well, when I think about that, 00:27:26.275 --> 00:27:28.096 I have to think about the 00:27:28.115 --> 00:27:29.136 student body today. 00:27:30.619 --> 00:27:32.220 Are they the same kind of students? 00:27:32.599 --> 00:27:33.601 Do they have the same kind 00:27:33.621 --> 00:27:35.441 of energy and commitment to 00:27:35.461 --> 00:27:37.020 the profession that we saw 00:27:37.340 --> 00:27:38.041 some years ago? 00:27:38.922 --> 00:27:39.801 That would be the first thing. 00:27:40.521 --> 00:27:41.402 And the second would be, 00:27:41.902 --> 00:27:42.502 what's going to be the 00:27:42.542 --> 00:27:44.123 effect of artificial intelligence? 00:27:46.143 --> 00:27:47.483 So addressing the first. 00:27:49.003 --> 00:27:50.844 Physical therapy reimbursement today, 00:27:51.503 --> 00:27:52.484 I think we'll all agree, 00:27:52.744 --> 00:27:53.644 is not what it should be. 00:27:54.875 --> 00:27:56.556 Back in 1998, 00:27:56.556 --> 00:27:58.536 when the Balanced Budget Act 00:27:58.635 --> 00:27:59.816 hit the profession, 00:28:00.156 --> 00:28:01.057 and for the first time we 00:28:01.076 --> 00:28:02.696 had some unemployed therapists, 00:28:03.498 --> 00:28:05.518 salaries were dropped from 00:28:05.778 --> 00:28:08.858 an average of about 70,000 to about 60. 00:28:08.858 --> 00:28:09.699 And for the first time, 00:28:10.220 --> 00:28:12.140 physical therapists, 00:28:12.440 --> 00:28:13.661 some were unemployed. 00:28:13.740 --> 00:28:14.681 Same with nursing and 00:28:15.080 --> 00:28:16.661 occupational and speech therapists. 00:28:17.362 --> 00:28:19.102 Six billion was cut from healthcare, 00:28:19.142 --> 00:28:21.623 principally Medicare and Medicaid. 00:28:23.705 --> 00:28:24.385 Since that time, 00:28:24.486 --> 00:28:25.866 our salaries have not kept 00:28:25.886 --> 00:28:27.587 pace with inflation. 00:28:28.508 --> 00:28:29.489 We continue to see 00:28:29.528 --> 00:28:31.930 reductions in our reimbursement. 00:28:32.630 --> 00:28:34.911 If we were 70,000 back then, 00:28:34.990 --> 00:28:38.073 we should be 140,000 today. 00:28:38.732 --> 00:28:41.034 And very few therapists at 00:28:41.814 --> 00:28:43.775 one or two years graduation 00:28:43.795 --> 00:28:44.915 are earning anything like 140,000. 00:28:44.915 --> 00:28:45.155 We are not, 00:28:45.175 --> 00:28:46.476 but some other professions are. 00:28:50.329 --> 00:28:52.873 And so I would say we have failed. 00:28:53.834 --> 00:28:55.675 I'd say the APTA has failed. 00:28:56.497 --> 00:28:58.097 But we are the APTA. 00:28:58.638 --> 00:28:59.799 We, each one of us. 00:29:00.441 --> 00:29:02.021 And we have failed to make 00:29:02.222 --> 00:29:04.704 our value appreciated by 00:29:04.825 --> 00:29:05.905 other than our patients. 00:29:06.866 --> 00:29:08.288 Our patients appreciate us. 00:29:08.368 --> 00:29:09.009 They know that. 00:29:09.450 --> 00:29:10.651 The medical profession is 00:29:10.691 --> 00:29:12.673 increasingly appreciating us. 00:29:13.654 --> 00:29:15.096 It's the legislators and the 00:29:15.175 --> 00:29:16.436 insurance companies that 00:29:16.477 --> 00:29:18.238 have no incentive, it seems, 00:29:18.758 --> 00:29:20.618 to facilitate our getting a 00:29:20.659 --> 00:29:21.619 better reimbursement. 00:29:22.140 --> 00:29:22.779 As a result, 00:29:23.780 --> 00:29:25.001 we're not gonna get such good 00:29:25.041 --> 00:29:26.241 quality students coming 00:29:26.281 --> 00:29:27.083 into our profession. 00:29:27.823 --> 00:29:30.525 If the reimbursement is not satisfactory, 00:29:30.964 --> 00:29:33.105 they can do better elsewhere in law, 00:29:33.406 --> 00:29:33.767 business, 00:29:35.095 --> 00:29:36.154 physician's assistant. 00:29:36.736 --> 00:29:37.875 So we're going to lose out 00:29:38.395 --> 00:29:39.276 on the top talent. 00:29:39.316 --> 00:29:41.116 Now, the top talent, A student, 00:29:41.576 --> 00:29:42.356 doesn't mean to say you're 00:29:42.376 --> 00:29:43.176 getting the best student. 00:29:44.077 --> 00:29:44.877 I'm a C student. 00:29:45.657 --> 00:29:47.239 So I honor C students. 00:29:47.679 --> 00:29:49.219 We're the ones who hard grind away. 00:29:49.259 --> 00:29:50.640 We get there by our effort. 00:29:51.279 --> 00:29:53.540 And we can succeed. 00:29:54.040 --> 00:29:55.141 But overall, though, 00:29:55.201 --> 00:29:56.520 we would like a handful of 00:29:56.560 --> 00:29:58.122 those top students as well. 00:29:58.642 --> 00:29:59.362 I don't know that we're 00:29:59.382 --> 00:30:00.282 going to keep getting them 00:30:00.502 --> 00:30:01.742 with the current reimbursement. 00:30:02.974 --> 00:30:05.214 And as a result of that, perhaps, 00:30:05.816 --> 00:30:06.915 I'm not seeing as much 00:30:06.996 --> 00:30:07.915 commitment to the 00:30:07.955 --> 00:30:09.955 profession as I used to see. 00:30:11.136 --> 00:30:13.896 It was not unusual 15 years 00:30:13.957 --> 00:30:15.377 ago for someone to take a 00:30:15.438 --> 00:30:17.397 week or two weeks out of 00:30:17.438 --> 00:30:19.638 their life and go and attend a seminar. 00:30:20.858 --> 00:30:21.259 Today, 00:30:21.999 --> 00:30:23.159 you're lucky you can keep them there 00:30:23.179 --> 00:30:23.739 for two days. 00:30:24.559 --> 00:30:25.700 They want to get away early 00:30:25.740 --> 00:30:26.440 on the second day. 00:30:27.570 --> 00:30:28.731 They're not willing to give 00:30:28.852 --> 00:30:31.134 up a piece of their lifestyle, 00:30:31.794 --> 00:30:33.155 a piece of their personal 00:30:33.675 --> 00:30:35.938 monies and time to commit 00:30:36.018 --> 00:30:37.778 themselves to advance their 00:30:37.838 --> 00:30:39.701 skill set within the profession. 00:30:40.701 --> 00:30:41.821 To me, it's a great shame. 00:30:42.042 --> 00:30:43.304 They believe when they get out of school, 00:30:43.423 --> 00:30:44.344 they know most everything. 00:30:44.484 --> 00:30:45.005 They do not. 00:30:45.605 --> 00:30:47.307 At best, they are safe novices. 00:30:48.007 --> 00:30:49.368 That's when the learning begins. 00:30:49.989 --> 00:30:50.710 Now, hopefully, 00:30:51.029 --> 00:30:52.671 residencies and fellowships 00:30:53.311 --> 00:30:54.313 will fill in that gap 00:30:54.752 --> 00:30:55.653 because they're not going 00:30:55.713 --> 00:30:57.194 to seminars like they used to go. 00:30:59.897 --> 00:31:02.118 Now, as to artificial intelligence, 00:31:04.201 --> 00:31:06.862 I believe that much of what 00:31:06.902 --> 00:31:08.383 we do in physical therapy, 00:31:08.403 --> 00:31:09.584 particularly in orthopedics, 00:31:10.644 --> 00:31:11.785 could be replaced by a very 00:31:11.825 --> 00:31:14.487 intelligent robot fed with 00:31:14.626 --> 00:31:16.728 all the science, exercise science, 00:31:17.608 --> 00:31:19.970 who can monitor you 24-7 00:31:20.009 --> 00:31:21.832 with a wristband or whatever it will be, 00:31:22.751 --> 00:31:23.553 encouraging you, 00:31:23.673 --> 00:31:25.874 adapting your exercises and 00:31:25.933 --> 00:31:27.055 keeping you on track. 00:31:28.044 --> 00:31:29.805 I think looking at the future, 00:31:30.565 --> 00:31:31.765 it's going to be very important, 00:31:31.785 --> 00:31:33.965 no matter what clinical area you are in, 00:31:33.986 --> 00:31:36.027 is that you develop that 00:31:36.146 --> 00:31:38.647 clinical presence of the 00:31:38.708 --> 00:31:41.808 advanced clinician, the master clinician, 00:31:42.548 --> 00:31:44.190 and you have hands-on skills. 00:31:45.170 --> 00:31:46.730 In this increasing age of 00:31:47.131 --> 00:31:48.371 high tech and low touch, 00:31:49.010 --> 00:31:50.132 touch is going to mean more 00:31:50.471 --> 00:31:51.092 to the patient. 00:31:51.852 --> 00:31:52.972 It begins with a handshake. 00:31:53.665 --> 00:31:55.186 And it carries on to everything we do, 00:31:55.227 --> 00:31:57.028 whether it's in neurology 00:31:57.167 --> 00:31:58.749 or cardiopulmonary or 00:31:58.808 --> 00:32:00.269 manual and manipulative therapy. 00:32:00.790 --> 00:32:01.871 If you don't have those 00:32:01.912 --> 00:32:03.752 hands-on skills and that 00:32:03.833 --> 00:32:05.334 personal presence with a patient, 00:32:05.854 --> 00:32:07.414 you might be replaced by a 00:32:07.474 --> 00:32:09.096 robot and become redundant. 00:32:09.596 --> 00:32:10.436 So it'll be interesting to 00:32:10.477 --> 00:32:11.137 see what happens. 00:32:11.417 --> 00:32:12.959 We're in the early days of 00:32:12.999 --> 00:32:14.539 this advanced technology. 00:32:15.019 --> 00:32:17.382 But it's a little scary, and it should be, 00:32:17.882 --> 00:32:18.942 to a number of therapists 00:32:19.303 --> 00:32:21.545 who don't have the ability 00:32:21.944 --> 00:32:23.546 to relate well to a patient. 00:32:28.067 --> 00:32:29.488 Those are two big issues, 00:32:29.528 --> 00:32:30.728 the return on investment, 00:32:31.608 --> 00:32:33.249 people willing to pay the 00:32:33.288 --> 00:32:35.509 money for tuition, et cetera, 00:32:35.589 --> 00:32:38.131 going through a DPT program. 00:32:39.891 --> 00:32:40.270 And you're right, 00:32:40.330 --> 00:32:42.451 salaries have not kept pace with, 00:32:43.751 --> 00:32:44.393 as our roles and 00:32:44.413 --> 00:32:45.573 responsibilities has 00:32:45.952 --> 00:32:47.012 evolved and we're taking 00:32:47.053 --> 00:32:49.114 more responsibility in many situations, 00:32:49.193 --> 00:32:49.814 you would think the 00:32:49.854 --> 00:32:52.095 salaries would increase accordingly. 00:32:53.161 --> 00:32:54.823 But we're not seeing that across the board, 00:32:55.544 --> 00:32:55.983 certainly. 00:32:56.585 --> 00:32:58.165 There is an answer in part to it. 00:32:58.567 --> 00:32:59.507 And that's what I'll call 00:32:59.547 --> 00:33:00.587 the boutique practice. 00:33:01.548 --> 00:33:03.912 I don't see any harm in a 00:33:04.672 --> 00:33:06.894 young and experienced 00:33:07.535 --> 00:33:08.756 physical therapist who has 00:33:08.855 --> 00:33:09.696 reached the top of their 00:33:09.717 --> 00:33:14.082 game for going into private 00:33:14.122 --> 00:33:16.324 practice and going off insurance. 00:33:17.425 --> 00:33:19.228 I don't see why therapists 00:33:19.248 --> 00:33:20.189 straight out of school get 00:33:20.229 --> 00:33:22.412 paid the same as a 20-year 00:33:22.451 --> 00:33:23.673 experience therapist who's 00:33:23.752 --> 00:33:26.576 board certified and done a fellowship. 00:33:27.257 --> 00:33:28.577 That is totally wrong to me. 00:33:29.138 --> 00:33:30.941 I think we should have a 00:33:31.020 --> 00:33:33.163 different scale within our 00:33:33.423 --> 00:33:34.984 system for people who have 00:33:35.746 --> 00:33:37.406 done a fellowship. 00:33:38.007 --> 00:33:40.207 In New Zealand, for instance, 00:33:40.247 --> 00:33:42.428 they have specialist practitioners, 00:33:43.067 --> 00:33:44.848 physical therapy practitioner status. 00:33:45.388 --> 00:33:46.368 They get higher paid. 00:33:46.469 --> 00:33:47.150 Same in England. 00:33:47.730 --> 00:33:49.069 But we've always said, oh, 00:33:49.089 --> 00:33:50.230 we'll advance our skills 00:33:50.250 --> 00:33:52.151 from bachelor's to master's to doctorate, 00:33:52.611 --> 00:33:53.371 and we'll go through 00:33:53.411 --> 00:33:54.451 residencies and fellowship, 00:33:54.571 --> 00:33:55.872 but you'll all be paid the same. 00:33:56.392 --> 00:33:57.413 That is stupid. 00:33:58.093 --> 00:34:00.113 So it forces someone who is 00:34:00.713 --> 00:34:01.713 particularly talented 00:34:03.299 --> 00:34:04.660 And that should be a large 00:34:04.700 --> 00:34:05.681 percentage of our 00:34:05.740 --> 00:34:07.141 profession to go into 00:34:07.201 --> 00:34:08.581 private practice and go off 00:34:08.661 --> 00:34:10.041 insurance and a boutique 00:34:10.061 --> 00:34:12.402 practice and treat patients 00:34:12.481 --> 00:34:13.681 and charge accordingly. 00:34:15.083 --> 00:34:16.822 That I think is going to be 00:34:16.842 --> 00:34:18.903 a safeguard for the best of 00:34:18.923 --> 00:34:19.543 the profession. 00:34:20.543 --> 00:34:22.344 And a number are succeeding at it. 00:34:22.985 --> 00:34:25.784 It resists working for a corporation. 00:34:26.344 --> 00:34:27.606 It resists working under 00:34:27.646 --> 00:34:28.786 Medicare and Medicaid. 00:34:29.405 --> 00:34:31.086 And it caters, yes, unfortunately, 00:34:31.186 --> 00:34:32.286 to those who can afford it. 00:34:33.407 --> 00:34:34.548 And that's a shame. 00:34:35.429 --> 00:34:36.771 So if you're going to go 00:34:36.791 --> 00:34:37.952 into that style of practice, 00:34:38.331 --> 00:34:40.074 perhaps you will do 10% pro 00:34:40.094 --> 00:34:41.996 bono to feel better about 00:34:42.536 --> 00:34:43.137 what you're doing. 00:34:43.956 --> 00:34:45.378 But it will provide you with 00:34:45.398 --> 00:34:46.579 an opportunity for 00:34:46.639 --> 00:34:47.840 enjoyable practice where 00:34:47.860 --> 00:34:48.922 you're really appreciated 00:34:49.242 --> 00:34:50.322 and you can make a good income. 00:34:52.652 --> 00:34:54.715 I've met a number of early 00:34:54.735 --> 00:34:56.215 to mid-career physical 00:34:56.255 --> 00:34:57.076 therapists that have 00:34:57.117 --> 00:34:59.978 established such a boutique 00:35:00.018 --> 00:35:01.460 practice as you described, 00:35:02.159 --> 00:35:04.802 and many of them do provide 00:35:05.442 --> 00:35:07.384 a certain percentage of pro bono care. 00:35:07.403 --> 00:35:09.125 That's one of the things 00:35:09.144 --> 00:35:09.746 that gives me some 00:35:09.806 --> 00:35:10.606 encouragement about the 00:35:10.686 --> 00:35:11.806 future is I've seen some 00:35:11.847 --> 00:35:13.367 really creative practice 00:35:13.407 --> 00:35:15.909 models out there developed 00:35:15.949 --> 00:35:17.791 by these early mid-career people, 00:35:17.990 --> 00:35:18.791 and they've been very, 00:35:18.831 --> 00:35:20.052 very successful at it. 00:35:21.179 --> 00:35:22.280 So hopefully I agree with 00:35:22.320 --> 00:35:23.079 you more and more. 00:35:23.119 --> 00:35:24.581 We'll see more and more of that. 00:35:25.860 --> 00:35:28.641 I hope they publish how they did it, 00:35:29.802 --> 00:35:32.384 what their model or models are, 00:35:32.923 --> 00:35:33.463 what worked, 00:35:33.603 --> 00:35:35.585 what didn't work to assist 00:35:35.664 --> 00:35:37.666 everybody else in the profession. 00:35:38.045 --> 00:35:38.425 Not me. 00:35:38.525 --> 00:35:43.527 I'm 86 now and not going 00:35:43.547 --> 00:35:45.128 back into private practice anytime soon. 00:35:46.369 --> 00:35:48.130 So your boutique practice days are over. 00:35:48.409 --> 00:35:49.170 Yes, yes, yes. 00:35:52.034 --> 00:35:52.195 You know, 00:35:52.215 --> 00:35:53.596 also to highlight your comments 00:35:53.635 --> 00:35:55.137 about residency education. 00:35:55.157 --> 00:35:57.757 I mean, a new graduate is a new graduate, 00:35:57.777 --> 00:35:58.639 whether they're coming out 00:35:58.679 --> 00:36:00.820 of dental school, med school, you know, 00:36:00.840 --> 00:36:03.221 a DPT program and, you know, 00:36:03.240 --> 00:36:04.161 the other professions, 00:36:04.420 --> 00:36:05.802 it's just expected that you 00:36:05.842 --> 00:36:07.222 will do a residency and 00:36:07.262 --> 00:36:08.543 then maybe a fellowship. 00:36:08.903 --> 00:36:09.684 Yes. 00:36:10.664 --> 00:36:11.965 And I also find it 00:36:12.005 --> 00:36:13.786 interesting that most of 00:36:13.885 --> 00:36:15.226 our physical therapists are 00:36:15.327 --> 00:36:17.648 not specialists in our current system. 00:36:18.641 --> 00:36:19.882 And there really isn't a 00:36:20.884 --> 00:36:22.585 residency path for our 00:36:22.666 --> 00:36:24.188 generalist or our primary 00:36:24.248 --> 00:36:25.429 care physical therapist. 00:36:26.931 --> 00:36:29.012 If you're in that kind of a practice model, 00:36:29.052 --> 00:36:30.914 primary care or our generalist, 00:36:31.494 --> 00:36:32.356 you're being asked to learn 00:36:32.416 --> 00:36:34.257 more and more about more and more. 00:36:34.277 --> 00:36:37.501 When you specialize and self-specialize, 00:36:37.541 --> 00:36:38.762 you learn more and more 00:36:39.003 --> 00:36:39.983 about less and less. 00:36:40.003 --> 00:36:41.364 Your focus becomes more narrowed. 00:36:42.360 --> 00:36:43.581 And so I'm hoping that at 00:36:43.661 --> 00:36:45.782 some point we'll have a 00:36:45.864 --> 00:36:48.264 residency pathway for our 00:36:48.344 --> 00:36:50.786 primary care physical therapists. 00:36:51.226 --> 00:36:51.367 Well, 00:36:51.387 --> 00:36:52.688 that's been a special interest of 00:36:52.728 --> 00:36:54.309 yours and introducing 00:36:54.369 --> 00:36:56.331 medical diagnostics into the profession. 00:36:57.170 --> 00:36:59.273 A key area, if we have autonomy, 00:36:59.693 --> 00:37:00.753 we need to be taking more 00:37:00.793 --> 00:37:03.396 responsibility because if 00:37:03.436 --> 00:37:06.137 we're the primary care physician, 00:37:06.177 --> 00:37:06.577 if you like, 00:37:06.878 --> 00:37:08.739 of the neuromuscular skeletal system, 00:37:09.179 --> 00:37:10.820 we have to know more about 00:37:11.681 --> 00:37:12.641 than we were originally 00:37:12.702 --> 00:37:13.621 taught some years ago. 00:37:13.942 --> 00:37:15.043 We've got to be able to 00:37:15.943 --> 00:37:17.744 replace at least part of 00:37:17.764 --> 00:37:20.704 the basic medical examination. 00:37:21.144 --> 00:37:22.706 And I think that's very important. 00:37:22.726 --> 00:37:24.266 And thank you for your contribution there. 00:37:25.646 --> 00:37:26.047 Thank you. 00:37:27.086 --> 00:37:28.007 So Stanley, 00:37:28.807 --> 00:37:31.929 any final thoughts about the academy, 00:37:32.329 --> 00:37:34.750 our section, the formation, 00:37:34.871 --> 00:37:35.831 how it's evolved? 00:37:40.583 --> 00:37:41.422 No, not really. 00:37:41.443 --> 00:37:42.623 I just hope that it 00:37:44.164 --> 00:37:45.364 maintains the standards 00:37:45.403 --> 00:37:46.483 that it's had in the past. 00:37:46.543 --> 00:37:47.664 I'm talking about the section. 00:37:52.505 --> 00:37:53.706 Last year, for instance, 00:37:56.146 --> 00:37:57.306 at the annual meeting, 00:37:58.327 --> 00:37:59.387 there was no annual 00:37:59.407 --> 00:38:00.626 business meeting for the first time. 00:38:02.166 --> 00:38:03.748 There were a lot of functions, 00:38:04.867 --> 00:38:05.907 but even those functions 00:38:05.967 --> 00:38:07.327 like the Paris 00:38:07.347 --> 00:38:08.528 Distinguished Service Award 00:38:08.608 --> 00:38:09.509 usually carries a medal. 00:38:10.547 --> 00:38:12.630 there was no medal and the 00:38:12.670 --> 00:38:14.251 rose award which is usually 00:38:14.271 --> 00:38:18.817 um accompanied by it's my 00:38:18.856 --> 00:38:20.298 roses to distinguished 00:38:20.739 --> 00:38:22.581 members of the section they 00:38:22.621 --> 00:38:24.623 were absent too and I think 00:38:24.664 --> 00:38:26.144 those touches are important 00:38:26.925 --> 00:38:30.047 because they distinguish the section. 00:38:30.887 --> 00:38:34.650 They honor our founders and those who, 00:38:35.050 --> 00:38:35.650 like Steve Rose, 00:38:35.670 --> 00:38:36.552 who made great 00:38:36.592 --> 00:38:38.373 contributions in research and so on. 00:38:39.213 --> 00:38:40.193 And we need to do that. 00:38:40.414 --> 00:38:42.735 And when young people see that being done, 00:38:43.556 --> 00:38:45.056 they can aspire to that. 00:38:45.717 --> 00:38:46.637 When that's not done with 00:38:46.697 --> 00:38:47.719 any proper ceremony, 00:38:48.378 --> 00:38:49.239 then there's little to 00:38:49.300 --> 00:38:50.880 aspire to and you just 00:38:50.920 --> 00:38:52.702 settle into where you are already. 00:38:54.001 --> 00:38:54.702 Aspiration. 00:38:55.603 --> 00:38:57.503 leadership, examples, mentors, 00:38:58.224 --> 00:38:59.784 that's what shows us a 00:38:59.844 --> 00:39:01.344 pathway ahead in our lives. 00:39:02.264 --> 00:39:03.244 And if we don't have them 00:39:03.304 --> 00:39:05.326 and don't see them in our association, 00:39:06.146 --> 00:39:07.425 then it's a falling away. 00:39:08.106 --> 00:39:09.487 And I think, well, 00:39:09.527 --> 00:39:11.706 some award ceremonies can go on too long. 00:39:12.628 --> 00:39:14.367 I don't think they need to 00:39:14.407 --> 00:39:16.369 go on as long as they sometimes do. 00:39:17.648 --> 00:39:19.289 Certain aspects of it need 00:39:19.309 --> 00:39:22.851 to be preserved and celebrated. 00:39:22.871 --> 00:39:23.710 Yeah. 00:39:24.371 --> 00:39:24.510 Yeah. 00:39:25.925 --> 00:39:28.068 those kind of traditions um 00:39:28.288 --> 00:39:29.889 to highlight and to honor 00:39:30.050 --> 00:39:31.490 and as you said give people 00:39:31.530 --> 00:39:33.853 a target to aspire to are a 00:39:34.054 --> 00:39:35.496 really important mechanisms 00:39:36.076 --> 00:39:38.739 place um well very good 00:39:38.998 --> 00:39:39.780 well stanley I want to 00:39:39.820 --> 00:39:41.202 thank you for your time and 00:39:41.242 --> 00:39:43.164 your and your insights and 00:39:43.998 --> 00:39:45.000 And certainly all you've 00:39:45.039 --> 00:39:47.581 done for our section, 00:39:47.760 --> 00:39:49.981 our academy and the profession as well. 00:39:50.603 --> 00:39:52.264 And it's still good to see 00:39:52.324 --> 00:39:53.583 that you're still involved. 00:39:54.045 --> 00:39:55.865 You're still watching and 00:39:55.945 --> 00:39:58.766 watching over things and 00:39:58.806 --> 00:40:00.168 serving as a mentor for so 00:40:00.228 --> 00:40:01.509 many of us over the years. 00:40:02.838 --> 00:40:02.998 Well, 00:40:03.039 --> 00:40:05.541 I'm off to Switzerland this weekend 00:40:05.802 --> 00:40:08.405 for the IFOMPT meeting in Basel, 00:40:08.666 --> 00:40:10.367 and I'll have a few words to say there. 00:40:11.789 --> 00:40:14.052 They're celebrating their 50th also. 00:40:14.512 --> 00:40:15.432 As well, that's right, 1974. 00:40:16.014 --> 00:40:17.655 And I was the founding 00:40:17.695 --> 00:40:19.077 chairman and second president. 00:40:19.518 --> 00:40:19.717 Yes. 00:40:20.438 --> 00:40:21.860 yes thank you bill very much 00:40:21.880 --> 00:40:22.900 for this opportunity to 00:40:23.221 --> 00:40:24.721 share my thoughts with the 00:40:24.760 --> 00:40:26.521 members of our academy yeah 00:40:26.722 --> 00:40:27.802 it was a pleasure and honor 00:40:27.842 --> 00:40:29.403 stanley this is a wonderful 00:40:29.463 --> 00:40:30.965 way again to wrap up our 00:40:31.005 --> 00:40:32.525 look back at the first 50 00:40:32.525 --> 00:40:34.646 years um you know as I 00:40:34.666 --> 00:40:35.867 mentioned early on the 00:40:35.967 --> 00:40:37.947 future couch conversations 00:40:38.427 --> 00:40:39.688 will be pivoting to the 00:40:39.768 --> 00:40:40.409 next 10 or 20 years 00:40:41.809 --> 00:40:42.990 and interviewing key 00:40:43.010 --> 00:40:44.172 individuals that are kind 00:40:44.213 --> 00:40:45.474 of setting the direction, 00:40:45.514 --> 00:40:46.875 setting the course for 00:40:47.396 --> 00:40:48.777 future orthopedic practice, 00:40:48.956 --> 00:40:50.398 education and research. 00:40:50.478 --> 00:40:51.119 So again, 00:40:51.139 --> 00:40:52.119 I want to thank all of you for 00:40:52.179 --> 00:40:53.021 joining us today. 00:40:53.481 --> 00:40:53.742 Thank you.