1 00:00:00,510 --> 00:00:02,070 - [Nikevia] Hello everybody. 2 00:00:02,070 --> 00:00:04,650 This is Nikevia. - [Jessica] And Jessica. 3 00:00:04,650 --> 00:00:06,480 - [Nikevia] From MAEC's Cafe 4 00:00:06,480 --> 00:00:10,290 and you're listening to a Corner CAFE podcast. 5 00:00:10,290 --> 00:00:12,873 (bright music) 6 00:00:15,660 --> 00:00:17,820 Families, schools and communities 7 00:00:17,820 --> 00:00:19,980 in Maryland Pennsylvania are looking 8 00:00:19,980 --> 00:00:22,920 for strategies to increase family engagement. 9 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:25,350 On this show, we sit down with family 10 00:00:25,350 --> 00:00:28,320 engagement experts to discuss the ideas, 11 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:32,190 best practices, and strategies that they use 12 00:00:32,190 --> 00:00:35,370 so that the rest of us can do the same. 13 00:00:35,370 --> 00:00:36,603 So let's get started. 14 00:00:38,670 --> 00:00:39,780 - [Jessica] Welcome back, everybody. 15 00:00:39,780 --> 00:00:41,370 Today's episode, we're joined 16 00:00:41,370 --> 00:00:44,010 by two educational leaders in Pennsylvania, 17 00:00:44,010 --> 00:00:45,750 Nikki Huggan and Chris Wolfel 18 00:00:45,750 --> 00:00:48,600 from the Colonial Intermediate Unit 20 19 00:00:48,600 --> 00:00:51,480 Program in Easton, Pennsylvania. 20 00:00:51,480 --> 00:00:53,010 But before we introduce them, 21 00:00:53,010 --> 00:00:54,540 I think it's important to explain 22 00:00:54,540 --> 00:00:56,610 a little educational history 23 00:00:56,610 --> 00:00:58,440 and how school districts are supported 24 00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:00,870 across the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania 25 00:01:00,870 --> 00:01:02,820 by a system of what we call, 26 00:01:02,820 --> 00:01:04,833 Intermediate Units or IUs. 27 00:01:05,940 --> 00:01:06,990 Every school district 28 00:01:06,990 --> 00:01:09,000 is assigned to an intermediate unit, 29 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:11,670 which provides a broad range of services. 30 00:01:11,670 --> 00:01:13,620 Things like curriculum development 31 00:01:13,620 --> 00:01:15,360 and instructional improvement, 32 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:17,400 educational planning services, 33 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:19,110 instructional material services 34 00:01:19,110 --> 00:01:20,460 and technology, 35 00:01:20,460 --> 00:01:22,410 continuing professional development, 36 00:01:22,410 --> 00:01:24,180 pupil personnel services, 37 00:01:24,180 --> 00:01:25,920 management services, 38 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:29,580 and state and federal agency liaison services. 39 00:01:29,580 --> 00:01:31,590 Many of our intermediate units also 40 00:01:31,590 --> 00:01:33,420 provide special education programs 41 00:01:33,420 --> 00:01:36,570 for students who have more complex needs as well. 42 00:01:36,570 --> 00:01:37,410 In all total, 43 00:01:37,410 --> 00:01:40,740 Pennsylvania has 29 intermediate units. 44 00:01:40,740 --> 00:01:42,510 We often talk about the importance 45 00:01:42,510 --> 00:01:43,950 of two-way communication. 46 00:01:43,950 --> 00:01:46,080 And so I'm really excited for today's 47 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:48,270 podcast because we are going to highlight 48 00:01:48,270 --> 00:01:50,520 an example of how to build a system 49 00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:53,850 to tackle some tough conversations in education. 50 00:01:53,850 --> 00:01:56,130 Today, we are going to learn how one 51 00:01:56,130 --> 00:01:58,170 intermediate unit responded to growing 52 00:01:58,170 --> 00:02:00,480 frustrations and concerns of families 53 00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:03,990 by co-creating the Colonial IU 20 54 00:02:03,990 --> 00:02:05,880 Parent Support TEAM. 55 00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:08,280 This group was created in 2018 56 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:11,400 to connect families directly with IU leaders 57 00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:13,560 in order to create a dynamic system 58 00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:16,110 for two-way communication and learning. 59 00:02:16,110 --> 00:02:18,960 This team works towards making improvements 60 00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:21,260 in building positive relationships with the IU 61 00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:24,990 and they hope to bring better outcomes 62 00:02:24,990 --> 00:02:26,640 for children while also bringing 63 00:02:26,640 --> 00:02:27,930 a sense of community 64 00:02:27,930 --> 00:02:30,840 and belonging to IU families. 65 00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:32,010 - [Nikevia] Thank you so much 66 00:02:32,010 --> 00:02:34,590 for that background, Jessica. 67 00:02:34,590 --> 00:02:38,070 Now, let's introduce Nikki and Chris. 68 00:02:38,070 --> 00:02:40,530 So Nikki Huggan is a wife and mother 69 00:02:40,530 --> 00:02:43,530 of two children with mitochondrial disease. 70 00:02:43,530 --> 00:02:47,013 Gavin and Hayden, both of whom have IEPs. 71 00:02:47,850 --> 00:02:49,950 She and her family live in East Bangor 72 00:02:49,950 --> 00:02:52,200 in the northeast corridor of Pennsylvania, 73 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:54,570 just south of the Poconos. 74 00:02:54,570 --> 00:02:57,600 Nikki co-leads the Colonial IU 20 75 00:02:57,600 --> 00:03:00,720 Parent Support TEAM, or together, 76 00:03:00,720 --> 00:03:04,080 educating, advocating moms, dads, 77 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:06,600 and families of Bangor 78 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:10,680 Area School District IEP support team. 79 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:12,300 She is the vice chair 80 00:03:12,300 --> 00:03:14,580 of the Regional Family Leaders Council 81 00:03:14,580 --> 00:03:16,470 for the families to the Max 82 00:03:16,470 --> 00:03:18,270 statewide Family Network. 83 00:03:18,270 --> 00:03:20,070 Consumer or representative 84 00:03:20,070 --> 00:03:22,560 for Bangor Area School District 85 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:25,050 on the Local Task Force 20 86 00:03:25,050 --> 00:03:26,790 and is an ambassador 87 00:03:26,790 --> 00:03:30,330 for the United Mitochondrial Disease Foundation. 88 00:03:30,330 --> 00:03:32,310 Nikki is an inspired advocate 89 00:03:32,310 --> 00:03:34,710 who works closely with educational 90 00:03:34,710 --> 00:03:36,750 and medical communities to better 91 00:03:36,750 --> 00:03:39,570 the lives of individuals in Pennsylvania, 92 00:03:39,570 --> 00:03:43,560 particularly those who are medically fragile. 93 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:44,820 - [Jessica] And alongside Nikki, 94 00:03:44,820 --> 00:03:47,400 we have Dr. Chris Wolfel. 95 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:48,870 Chris has spent over 20 years 96 00:03:48,870 --> 00:03:51,300 working at Colonial Intermediate Unit 20. 97 00:03:51,300 --> 00:03:53,910 He started his service journey as a bus monitor 98 00:03:53,910 --> 00:03:55,830 and substitute paraprofessional, 99 00:03:55,830 --> 00:03:58,230 and after receiving his degree from Penn State, 100 00:03:58,230 --> 00:04:00,150 he became a special education teacher 101 00:04:00,150 --> 00:04:01,650 in autistic support. 102 00:04:01,650 --> 00:04:03,750 He then transitioned to educational 103 00:04:03,750 --> 00:04:06,870 administration and is now the executive director. 104 00:04:06,870 --> 00:04:08,880 Chris has his doctorate in educational 105 00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:11,220 leadership from Delaware Valley University, 106 00:04:11,220 --> 00:04:14,040 where he is now an adjunct professor as well. 107 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:14,910 Chris also owns 108 00:04:14,910 --> 00:04:16,560 and operates his own consulting company 109 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:18,480 called, Leading With Optimism. 110 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:20,130 He's a master trainer in 111 00:04:20,130 --> 00:04:23,340 therapeutic aggression control techniques. 112 00:04:23,340 --> 00:04:24,840 Chris is active in his community 113 00:04:24,840 --> 00:04:26,820 by volunteering for recreational sports 114 00:04:26,820 --> 00:04:29,190 organizations and Special Olympics, 115 00:04:29,190 --> 00:04:31,050 and he is committed to influencing people 116 00:04:31,050 --> 00:04:33,390 to be positive in all situations. 117 00:04:33,390 --> 00:04:35,280 His focus is addressing challenges 118 00:04:35,280 --> 00:04:37,170 and issues by creating opportunities 119 00:04:37,170 --> 00:04:38,880 through creative solutions. 120 00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:40,500 He is married to his love, 121 00:04:40,500 --> 00:04:42,510 his friend, and his everything, Beth, 122 00:04:42,510 --> 00:04:43,920 I love that. 123 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:46,020 Beth and Chris have four amazing children, 124 00:04:46,020 --> 00:04:48,840 Noah, Jack, Gracie, and Maya. 125 00:04:48,840 --> 00:04:50,760 So we're ecstatic to have you both with us. 126 00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:51,810 Thank you so much 127 00:04:51,810 --> 00:04:53,660 for spending some time with us today. 128 00:04:54,510 --> 00:04:56,580 - [Nikevia] Well, let's jump right in. 129 00:04:56,580 --> 00:04:59,460 Can you tell us about Colonial IU 20 130 00:04:59,460 --> 00:05:01,590 and what services you provide 131 00:05:01,590 --> 00:05:03,390 to students and families? 132 00:05:03,390 --> 00:05:04,223 - [Chris] Nikki, I guess, 133 00:05:04,223 --> 00:05:05,735 you want me to take that one, huh? 134 00:05:05,735 --> 00:05:06,857 - [Nikevia] I'm thinking 135 00:05:06,857 --> 00:05:09,331 that's your wheelhouse, Chris. 136 00:05:09,331 --> 00:05:10,560 - [Chris] All right, all right. 137 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:13,170 Well, Jessica did a great job explaining 138 00:05:13,170 --> 00:05:16,080 intermediate units in Pennsylvania. 139 00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:19,290 So let me just break it down about IU 20, 140 00:05:19,290 --> 00:05:21,450 which is one of 29 intermediate units 141 00:05:21,450 --> 00:05:23,190 in the Commonwealth. 142 00:05:23,190 --> 00:05:25,020 And in our region, we're currently 143 00:05:25,020 --> 00:05:28,890 serving over 86,000 public school students. 144 00:05:28,890 --> 00:05:31,050 And at our IU, we have approximately 145 00:05:31,050 --> 00:05:33,930 1,300 full-time and part-time staff. 146 00:05:33,930 --> 00:05:36,390 We do support 13 school districts, 147 00:05:36,390 --> 00:05:38,880 three career tech centers, charter schools, 148 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:41,940 and non-public schools in our three counties. 149 00:05:41,940 --> 00:05:43,560 And we provide services ranging 150 00:05:43,560 --> 00:05:45,810 from full-time special ed services 151 00:05:45,810 --> 00:05:47,160 to itinerant services 152 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:48,480 to truancy intervention 153 00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:50,640 to behavioral health services. 154 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:51,840 And our student population 155 00:05:51,840 --> 00:05:55,650 is ages three through 22 years of age. 156 00:05:55,650 --> 00:05:56,850 We also provide curriculum 157 00:05:56,850 --> 00:05:58,290 and professional development, 158 00:05:58,290 --> 00:06:00,750 educational technology support, 159 00:06:00,750 --> 00:06:02,490 emergency planning, coordination, 160 00:06:02,490 --> 00:06:05,310 joint purchasing, healthcare consortium, 161 00:06:05,310 --> 00:06:07,680 and transportation services. 162 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:09,840 And most important, 163 00:06:09,840 --> 00:06:12,030 we work really closely with Nikki 164 00:06:12,030 --> 00:06:14,400 and Katrina and our CIE 20 165 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:17,280 parent team to support our families. 166 00:06:17,280 --> 00:06:19,410 - [Jessica] And let me just clarify real quick, 167 00:06:19,410 --> 00:06:21,240 for anyone who's listening who might not be 168 00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:23,355 in the realm of education, when you say, 169 00:06:23,355 --> 00:06:25,890 itinerant special education supports, 170 00:06:25,890 --> 00:06:27,120 can you give an example of what 171 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:30,690 that might be for someone who has an IEP? 172 00:06:30,690 --> 00:06:31,860 - [Chris] Yeah, absolutely. 173 00:06:31,860 --> 00:06:34,230 It's a great question and a good clarification. 174 00:06:34,230 --> 00:06:37,140 So when we talk about itinerant supports, 175 00:06:37,140 --> 00:06:39,300 we're talking about those services such as, 176 00:06:39,300 --> 00:06:40,500 speech and language therapy, 177 00:06:40,500 --> 00:06:43,800 occupational therapy, physical therapy, 178 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:45,870 audiology, those type of services 179 00:06:45,870 --> 00:06:47,820 where we're providing, you know, 180 00:06:47,820 --> 00:06:50,850 support either one-on-one through group services, 181 00:06:50,850 --> 00:06:53,430 or just supporting through consultation 182 00:06:53,430 --> 00:06:54,900 with classroom teachers. 183 00:06:54,900 --> 00:06:56,610 - [Jessica] Perfect, thank you for that. 184 00:06:56,610 --> 00:06:59,220 So Nikki, tell us a little bit 185 00:06:59,220 --> 00:07:00,870 from your perspective, what was happening 186 00:07:00,870 --> 00:07:03,810 in 2018 that led to the design 187 00:07:03,810 --> 00:07:06,000 of your parent support team? 188 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:08,070 - [Nikki] I wish Katrina was here with me. 189 00:07:08,070 --> 00:07:11,160 Katrina Campbell founded the Colonial IU 20 190 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:12,630 Parent Support TEAM 191 00:07:12,630 --> 00:07:16,200 And honestly, as with a lot of things, 192 00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:19,140 it came out of a bad experience. 193 00:07:19,140 --> 00:07:22,440 A lot of times, families hit a wall 194 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:23,970 and they don't know what to do, 195 00:07:23,970 --> 00:07:26,220 and that's how it happened. 196 00:07:26,220 --> 00:07:29,580 Katrina was in an IU classroom 197 00:07:29,580 --> 00:07:31,560 with her oldest son, Sammy, 198 00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:34,920 and he did not have a good experience. 199 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:36,967 And she was like, 200 00:07:36,967 --> 00:07:40,080 "Now here I am, I'm in this classroom 201 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:42,630 and I don't know anybody else who's in here. 202 00:07:42,630 --> 00:07:44,820 How do these families connect? 203 00:07:44,820 --> 00:07:46,080 How do we get them together? 204 00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:47,040 It doesn't make sense." 205 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:48,840 And one of the things I think 206 00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:50,490 we've all figured out early on is 207 00:07:50,490 --> 00:07:52,950 the chain of command is very different 208 00:07:52,950 --> 00:07:55,590 in an IU classroom versus a district classroom. 209 00:07:55,590 --> 00:07:58,170 So nobody knew who they should be going to. 210 00:07:58,170 --> 00:08:00,270 So it led to frustration. 211 00:08:00,270 --> 00:08:01,920 And in all honesty, 212 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:04,920 I don't wanna make Chris uncomfortable here 213 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:08,580 with this, but you know, he's the only person 214 00:08:08,580 --> 00:08:10,740 that really truly listened to her. 215 00:08:10,740 --> 00:08:14,850 When she got upset, she was gonna go 216 00:08:14,850 --> 00:08:16,260 the lawyer route, she was gonna do 217 00:08:16,260 --> 00:08:19,050 all these things and he sat down with her 218 00:08:19,050 --> 00:08:21,457 and Katrina's husband said, 219 00:08:21,457 --> 00:08:22,830 "Let's give this guy a chance. 220 00:08:22,830 --> 00:08:25,800 Let's see if he really is saying 221 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:27,180 and believes in the things 222 00:08:27,180 --> 00:08:29,070 that he is saying to us." 223 00:08:29,070 --> 00:08:31,200 She knew that that partnership would be there. 224 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:33,930 And she found me because 225 00:08:33,930 --> 00:08:35,670 I'm on the Local Task Force 226 00:08:35,670 --> 00:08:37,080 and we connected that way 227 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:39,780 and we've been inseparable pretty much since. 228 00:08:39,780 --> 00:08:43,738 Right now, we have 616 families 229 00:08:43,738 --> 00:08:45,510 on our support team. 230 00:08:45,510 --> 00:08:48,180 - [Nikevia] That's amazing. - [Jessica] Wow. 231 00:08:48,180 --> 00:08:50,700 - [Nikki] This village that we're working 232 00:08:50,700 --> 00:08:52,500 to create, everybody on this team 233 00:08:52,500 --> 00:08:54,467 plays an important role in this village. 234 00:08:54,467 --> 00:08:57,120 We all bring something to the table 235 00:08:57,120 --> 00:08:59,070 and we all help each other through, 236 00:08:59,070 --> 00:09:00,990 you know, everything. 237 00:09:00,990 --> 00:09:03,810 - [Jessica] Wow, that sounds really powerful. 238 00:09:03,810 --> 00:09:06,270 Chris, tell us about how you initially 239 00:09:06,270 --> 00:09:08,250 worked with these families 240 00:09:08,250 --> 00:09:10,830 who were not happy about what was happening 241 00:09:10,830 --> 00:09:13,980 at the IU to start the program. 242 00:09:13,980 --> 00:09:15,660 So if I was a principal 243 00:09:15,660 --> 00:09:18,690 or a school leader, can you walk us 244 00:09:18,690 --> 00:09:20,640 through the steps of bringing people together 245 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:22,620 and what that looked like in the beginning? 246 00:09:22,620 --> 00:09:23,880 - [Chris] Sure, and you know, 247 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:25,620 let me expand a little bit too 248 00:09:25,620 --> 00:09:28,320 on what Nikki just talked about too, 249 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:30,243 what was happening in 2018, 250 00:09:31,349 --> 00:09:34,680 you know, from the school side. 251 00:09:34,680 --> 00:09:36,820 And even just for me 252 00:09:38,130 --> 00:09:41,580 and what I was experiencing is that, 253 00:09:41,580 --> 00:09:44,310 I was kind of new in my leadership role 254 00:09:44,310 --> 00:09:47,190 as finally being able to have the ability 255 00:09:47,190 --> 00:09:49,350 to start making some meaningful change, 256 00:09:49,350 --> 00:09:51,150 you're a teacher, you're kind of limited 257 00:09:51,150 --> 00:09:52,560 with the change that you can make. 258 00:09:52,560 --> 00:09:56,130 And even as a principal or as a supervisor 259 00:09:56,130 --> 00:09:57,663 of special education limited, 260 00:09:58,890 --> 00:10:01,170 get into a higher level leadership position, 261 00:10:01,170 --> 00:10:03,630 you can really start to make some changes. 262 00:10:03,630 --> 00:10:04,830 And one of the things 263 00:10:04,830 --> 00:10:06,570 that was really frustrating 264 00:10:06,570 --> 00:10:11,370 to me as a teacher and also as a supervisor, 265 00:10:11,370 --> 00:10:14,430 was that there were a lot of barriers 266 00:10:14,430 --> 00:10:16,680 in our intermediate unit 267 00:10:16,680 --> 00:10:19,530 that did not allow for clear communication 268 00:10:19,530 --> 00:10:23,130 between families and our classroom staff. 269 00:10:23,130 --> 00:10:25,710 And those are barriers that created mistrust. 270 00:10:25,710 --> 00:10:29,190 For example, procedures that didn't allow 271 00:10:29,190 --> 00:10:31,410 families to visit a classroom. 272 00:10:31,410 --> 00:10:33,750 You know, that from a family's perspective, 273 00:10:33,750 --> 00:10:35,430 it's, well, if I'm not allowed to see 274 00:10:35,430 --> 00:10:36,300 what's going on, 275 00:10:36,300 --> 00:10:38,910 then what are you doing in there? 276 00:10:38,910 --> 00:10:40,410 Which makes sense. 277 00:10:40,410 --> 00:10:41,670 The other thing was there was this 278 00:10:41,670 --> 00:10:44,490 movement that was going on through the state, 279 00:10:44,490 --> 00:10:47,520 through our technical training office 280 00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:48,780 called, Batan, as well as, 281 00:10:48,780 --> 00:10:50,070 the Department of Education, 282 00:10:50,070 --> 00:10:51,570 the Bureau of Special Education 283 00:10:51,570 --> 00:10:53,220 called, Presuming Competence. 284 00:10:53,220 --> 00:10:55,800 And CIE 20 was one of the first 285 00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:59,070 I used to work on this pilot 286 00:10:59,070 --> 00:11:01,710 and it really opened my eyes 287 00:11:01,710 --> 00:11:03,410 and a lot of key people at this IU 288 00:11:04,500 --> 00:11:06,120 to the fact that 289 00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:09,090 we are limiting our expectations 290 00:11:09,090 --> 00:11:10,980 for people with disabilities. 291 00:11:10,980 --> 00:11:14,790 And that was a change, a mind shift change 292 00:11:14,790 --> 00:11:16,620 that was really important. 293 00:11:16,620 --> 00:11:18,180 The other thing is, 294 00:11:18,180 --> 00:11:19,950 I was going to meetings 295 00:11:19,950 --> 00:11:21,570 and sitting in meetings 296 00:11:21,570 --> 00:11:24,420 where other school administrators, 297 00:11:24,420 --> 00:11:25,530 I just didn't feel they 298 00:11:25,530 --> 00:11:27,630 were truly listening to families 299 00:11:27,630 --> 00:11:31,110 and really trying to understand the challenges 300 00:11:31,110 --> 00:11:33,030 that the families were struggling with. 301 00:11:33,030 --> 00:11:34,890 So as Nikki shared, 302 00:11:34,890 --> 00:11:37,140 then we had this one-on-one situation 303 00:11:37,140 --> 00:11:40,440 with Kat where when I got involved, 304 00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:42,570 it seemed that we were already 305 00:11:42,570 --> 00:11:45,480 in a really bad situation because 306 00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:47,250 people were not just being straight 307 00:11:47,250 --> 00:11:49,830 honest with Katrina about what happened. 308 00:11:49,830 --> 00:11:51,787 And just to go in and say, 309 00:11:51,787 --> 00:11:53,940 "We made a mistake, we're wrong," 310 00:11:53,940 --> 00:11:56,010 was I think what built that bridge 311 00:11:56,010 --> 00:11:58,230 to creating that first opportunity 312 00:11:58,230 --> 00:12:00,570 of somebody's finally being truthful. 313 00:12:00,570 --> 00:12:02,160 And that's really what started 314 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:04,680 the conversations with Katrina and I, 315 00:12:04,680 --> 00:12:07,227 and there were times where Katrina 316 00:12:07,227 --> 00:12:10,753 and I, we got into it, 317 00:12:10,753 --> 00:12:11,910 I'm not saying in a bad way, 318 00:12:11,910 --> 00:12:13,240 but there were times where 319 00:12:15,027 --> 00:12:16,890 we couldn't move together 320 00:12:16,890 --> 00:12:19,860 at the same pace that we wanted to. 321 00:12:19,860 --> 00:12:22,020 And you know, that was I think, 322 00:12:22,020 --> 00:12:23,487 frustrating for Kat at times, 323 00:12:23,487 --> 00:12:25,530 and I could understand that. 324 00:12:25,530 --> 00:12:28,890 But you know, change takes time 325 00:12:28,890 --> 00:12:32,280 and it's hard to explain to a family that 326 00:12:32,280 --> 00:12:34,890 I know this is really, really important, 327 00:12:34,890 --> 00:12:36,360 but you gotta understand that 328 00:12:36,360 --> 00:12:39,840 the process takes a while to do. 329 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:42,570 But you know, again, that one-on-one 330 00:12:42,570 --> 00:12:43,680 interaction with Katrina, 331 00:12:43,680 --> 00:12:45,180 I think is what started to build 332 00:12:45,180 --> 00:12:48,720 the foundation for that parent support group. 333 00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:49,710 And then, I'm sorry, Jessica, 334 00:12:49,710 --> 00:12:51,900 you wanted me to answer a question? 335 00:12:51,900 --> 00:12:54,060 - [Jessica] No, I appreciate that insight. 336 00:12:54,060 --> 00:12:56,670 So you have this experience with this one parent, 337 00:12:56,670 --> 00:12:57,870 help us connect the dots. 338 00:12:57,870 --> 00:13:00,750 How did it go from one parent with one situation 339 00:13:00,750 --> 00:13:04,500 to this bi-directional group of 600 people? 340 00:13:04,500 --> 00:13:06,540 I mean, I've seen the pictures 341 00:13:06,540 --> 00:13:08,910 and I've heard you talk about this before, 342 00:13:08,910 --> 00:13:11,610 you have participation in this group. 343 00:13:11,610 --> 00:13:13,920 So help us connect that dot, 344 00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:15,720 how did you get from 345 00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:17,820 one parent who's frustrated 346 00:13:17,820 --> 00:13:19,650 to bringing a whole group together 347 00:13:19,650 --> 00:13:21,240 to begin to make real change? 348 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:24,870 - [Chris] I think for me, it was 349 00:13:24,870 --> 00:13:28,800 seeing how that situation 350 00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:32,523 affected Kat, emotionally, physically. 351 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:36,630 It was really hard to see a family 352 00:13:36,630 --> 00:13:39,180 go through what she was going through. 353 00:13:39,180 --> 00:13:42,150 And from my perspective, 354 00:13:42,150 --> 00:13:43,560 I'd never wanted a family 355 00:13:43,560 --> 00:13:47,580 to have to have those feelings ever, 356 00:13:47,580 --> 00:13:49,440 the mistrust, 357 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:53,130 the just being sad about what happened. 358 00:13:53,130 --> 00:13:55,500 And I think for Katrina, 359 00:13:55,500 --> 00:13:56,430 she didn't want to see 360 00:13:56,430 --> 00:13:58,740 another family go through that. 361 00:13:58,740 --> 00:14:01,110 So we had to really start to think, 362 00:14:01,110 --> 00:14:04,350 how can we take a really bad situation 363 00:14:04,350 --> 00:14:06,780 and get it back to where it needs to be, 364 00:14:06,780 --> 00:14:08,730 but also, how can we make sure 365 00:14:08,730 --> 00:14:11,220 that this doesn't happen in the future? 366 00:14:11,220 --> 00:14:14,100 And that I think is what led to, 367 00:14:14,100 --> 00:14:16,110 you know, Kat and I kind of just holding hands 368 00:14:16,110 --> 00:14:17,820 and saying, let's figure this out 369 00:14:17,820 --> 00:14:19,380 and let's start to bring 370 00:14:19,380 --> 00:14:20,793 people into this, 371 00:14:21,630 --> 00:14:23,370 you know, people like Nikki 372 00:14:23,370 --> 00:14:26,490 that could help us to grow 373 00:14:26,490 --> 00:14:28,860 and provide supports to our families 374 00:14:28,860 --> 00:14:30,300 and get our staff here 375 00:14:30,300 --> 00:14:32,280 at the IU to think differently, 376 00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:33,900 to get communities to start 377 00:14:33,900 --> 00:14:36,690 thinking differently about how 378 00:14:36,690 --> 00:14:39,000 to make everyone feel like they belong 379 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:41,270 and they're part of something. 380 00:14:41,270 --> 00:14:43,710 - [Nikki] I wanna add something onto this 381 00:14:43,710 --> 00:14:47,280 because I do wanna say, you know, 382 00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:49,890 to anybody who is listening to this, 383 00:14:49,890 --> 00:14:52,110 one of the things that was always 384 00:14:52,110 --> 00:14:55,216 important in this team is that 385 00:14:55,216 --> 00:14:57,720 it is parent-run 386 00:14:57,720 --> 00:15:01,500 and that yes, the IU are our partners 387 00:15:01,500 --> 00:15:03,630 and we want this to stay completely 388 00:15:03,630 --> 00:15:05,640 sustainable even long after 389 00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:08,130 we're all gone from these areas. 390 00:15:08,130 --> 00:15:11,790 But it's having the right people 391 00:15:11,790 --> 00:15:14,340 in the right place at the right time. 392 00:15:14,340 --> 00:15:17,670 This wouldn't have happened if 393 00:15:17,670 --> 00:15:19,110 there weren't so many other factors 394 00:15:19,110 --> 00:15:21,000 like Chris was talking about, 395 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:24,720 the presuming competence, that was Project Max. 396 00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:27,600 And Project Max has morphed into families 397 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:32,600 to the Max, which is now, a statewide effort. 398 00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:35,160 It was before, but it was pocketed 399 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:39,690 and now it is completely family-run as well. 400 00:15:39,690 --> 00:15:42,630 And with the help of the partnerships 401 00:15:42,630 --> 00:15:45,210 with Pat and Peel and Unay 402 00:15:45,210 --> 00:15:48,900 and the Bureau and with that 403 00:15:48,900 --> 00:15:51,510 overarching the state at this point, 404 00:15:51,510 --> 00:15:53,250 I really feel like 405 00:15:53,250 --> 00:15:56,310 there could be a lot more movement 406 00:15:56,310 --> 00:15:59,820 just like this team, I mean, 407 00:15:59,820 --> 00:16:01,830 I can't tell you enough how important 408 00:16:01,830 --> 00:16:03,630 every person on this team is to me. 409 00:16:03,630 --> 00:16:04,600 And how important 410 00:16:05,970 --> 00:16:09,090 everybody at the IU, all the employees, 411 00:16:09,090 --> 00:16:12,150 they are our partners, they are with us. 412 00:16:12,150 --> 00:16:13,260 And I mean, right now, 413 00:16:13,260 --> 00:16:14,550 it's just Chris and I on here, 414 00:16:14,550 --> 00:16:16,773 but when he comes to breakfast, 415 00:16:17,670 --> 00:16:21,000 we come with topics that are going 416 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:23,520 to help families and he brings the people 417 00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:24,870 that are gonna have the answers 418 00:16:24,870 --> 00:16:27,660 because he might be the executive director, 419 00:16:27,660 --> 00:16:28,493 but he doesn't know 420 00:16:28,493 --> 00:16:30,510 every single thing that's happening. 421 00:16:30,510 --> 00:16:34,530 So there's a lot of important pieces here 422 00:16:34,530 --> 00:16:38,251 and he's putting in the work. 423 00:16:38,251 --> 00:16:39,084 - [Jessica] Yeah. - [Nikki] And so 424 00:16:39,084 --> 00:16:40,380 is everyone else at the IU. 425 00:16:42,330 --> 00:16:43,163 - [Jessica] And when you say, 426 00:16:43,163 --> 00:16:44,670 it's parent-run, Nikki, 427 00:16:44,670 --> 00:16:47,340 why is that important that it's the parents 428 00:16:47,340 --> 00:16:49,830 that are running the support team? 429 00:16:49,830 --> 00:16:50,663 - [Nikki] Okay, 430 00:16:50,663 --> 00:16:54,900 so parents get angry sometimes, okay. 431 00:16:54,900 --> 00:16:56,700 And yes, we want the mindset to be 432 00:16:56,700 --> 00:16:58,110 that we're all going to work together 433 00:16:58,110 --> 00:17:00,840 and we're gonna find ways to make this happen. 434 00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:03,510 But there's a trust, 435 00:17:03,510 --> 00:17:06,480 there's broken trust sometimes with 436 00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:11,340 school, with the IU, with all of those pieces. 437 00:17:11,340 --> 00:17:15,060 And if we were run by 438 00:17:15,060 --> 00:17:17,610 the IU or school districts, 439 00:17:17,610 --> 00:17:20,460 people might not join. 440 00:17:20,460 --> 00:17:22,650 That's why I say, we're partners 441 00:17:22,650 --> 00:17:25,050 and we go through all of this together, 442 00:17:25,050 --> 00:17:29,910 but we make the decisions, 443 00:17:29,910 --> 00:17:32,790 Katrina and I have, you know, 444 00:17:32,790 --> 00:17:33,870 a core group of people 445 00:17:33,870 --> 00:17:36,540 and then we bring in more people all the time 446 00:17:36,540 --> 00:17:38,310 and say, "Hey, what are your thoughts?" 447 00:17:38,310 --> 00:17:40,020 Because it's important 448 00:17:40,020 --> 00:17:42,330 for families to have a voice. 449 00:17:42,330 --> 00:17:43,200 - [Jessica] Yeah, yeah. 450 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:45,480 And I think it's the whole idea of like, 451 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:48,150 you're also sincerely setting the agenda, 452 00:17:48,150 --> 00:17:49,800 not coming in necessarily 453 00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:51,120 to like the school districts 454 00:17:51,120 --> 00:17:52,590 and like we invite parents in, 455 00:17:52,590 --> 00:17:54,150 but it's, come talk to us 456 00:17:54,150 --> 00:17:55,770 about the things we wanna talk about, 457 00:17:55,770 --> 00:17:57,660 right, that we think are important. 458 00:17:57,660 --> 00:17:59,880 And this kind of gives you more 459 00:17:59,880 --> 00:18:01,740 of a balance so that parents 460 00:18:01,740 --> 00:18:03,660 can tell us as school leaders what's 461 00:18:03,660 --> 00:18:06,390 important to them, which may be the same 462 00:18:06,390 --> 00:18:09,240 and maybe a little different as well. 463 00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:11,310 - [Nikki] This model allows us 464 00:18:11,310 --> 00:18:14,010 the option to disagree. 465 00:18:14,010 --> 00:18:17,010 We're not always gonna agree on everything, 466 00:18:17,010 --> 00:18:18,660 and that's okay 467 00:18:18,660 --> 00:18:20,100 because if we can come back 468 00:18:20,100 --> 00:18:21,720 and work on a compromise together, 469 00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:23,220 that's what really matters 470 00:18:23,220 --> 00:18:25,530 when we keep our students center, 471 00:18:25,530 --> 00:18:28,080 you know, model and think about it that way, 472 00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:30,663 that's how we're going to win for every student. 473 00:18:31,530 --> 00:18:34,800 - [Jessica] I'm wondering, in hindsight, 474 00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:37,020 as you look at what you've done 475 00:18:37,020 --> 00:18:38,250 and how you started, 476 00:18:38,250 --> 00:18:40,050 are there any modifications you 477 00:18:40,050 --> 00:18:41,250 would've made or is there something 478 00:18:41,250 --> 00:18:42,950 differently that you would've done 479 00:18:46,530 --> 00:18:49,170 that it would've made you move along 480 00:18:49,170 --> 00:18:50,160 with the way that you have 481 00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:52,263 as the group has grown and evolved? 482 00:18:54,829 --> 00:18:56,670 - [Nikki] Well, I can say something. 483 00:18:56,670 --> 00:18:59,310 So one of the things I think 484 00:18:59,310 --> 00:19:01,140 that we would have done, 485 00:19:01,140 --> 00:19:03,060 and this may seem a little crazy, 486 00:19:03,060 --> 00:19:05,010 but it took us a long time 487 00:19:05,010 --> 00:19:07,650 to do things with our kids, 488 00:19:07,650 --> 00:19:10,140 like to bring our kids together. 489 00:19:10,140 --> 00:19:12,420 It was like we found our village 490 00:19:12,420 --> 00:19:14,940 and we were so excited to be together. 491 00:19:14,940 --> 00:19:16,950 And then one day we realized like, 492 00:19:16,950 --> 00:19:19,230 hey, our kids need a village too, 493 00:19:19,230 --> 00:19:21,480 and they enjoy being together. 494 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:23,760 So we started doing all kinds of things together. 495 00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:25,680 Like we help raise money for 496 00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:28,533 the Special Olympics by doing the polar plunge. 497 00:19:30,330 --> 00:19:32,040 Oh my goodness, we do movie days 498 00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:34,920 in the summer and Chris has helped us 499 00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:37,590 get tickets to Phantom Games 500 00:19:37,590 --> 00:19:40,920 and our kids just love being together. 501 00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:42,210 And that's a whole nother level, 502 00:19:42,210 --> 00:19:44,070 but we didn't do it as early as I think 503 00:19:44,070 --> 00:19:46,203 we would have if we could go back. 504 00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:48,420 - [Nikevia] Which also then keeps 505 00:19:48,420 --> 00:19:49,370 it very student-centered. - [Jessica] Yeah, 506 00:19:49,370 --> 00:19:50,610 it does help when you have 507 00:19:50,610 --> 00:19:52,123 the students there. - [Nikevia] Yeah. 508 00:19:52,123 --> 00:19:52,956 Yeah, yeah. 509 00:19:52,956 --> 00:19:54,717 - [Nikevia] Having student voice. 510 00:19:54,717 --> 00:19:56,550 - [Nikki] And it's a full family. 511 00:19:56,550 --> 00:19:58,500 It's a family then, 512 00:19:58,500 --> 00:20:00,660 it's about the family, not, you know, 513 00:20:00,660 --> 00:20:02,610 I think that's really powerful. 514 00:20:02,610 --> 00:20:03,570 - [Chris] Yeah, and I don't think 515 00:20:03,570 --> 00:20:05,700 there's anything different. 516 00:20:05,700 --> 00:20:07,590 You know, when I think back to 517 00:20:07,590 --> 00:20:11,520 just from the start when we had this 518 00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:13,800 challenge, right, with Katrina 519 00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:16,290 and the IU, you know, 520 00:20:16,290 --> 00:20:18,270 it was kind of working from your gut 521 00:20:18,270 --> 00:20:19,800 and from your heart. 522 00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:21,870 And I think leading 523 00:20:21,870 --> 00:20:24,000 with your heart is so important. 524 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:26,310 And there's a book by Tommy Spaulding 525 00:20:26,310 --> 00:20:28,290 called, "Heart-Led Leader." 526 00:20:28,290 --> 00:20:30,870 And I've said, I think it's a must-read 527 00:20:30,870 --> 00:20:33,510 for any school leader because 528 00:20:33,510 --> 00:20:36,210 it takes you through this journey 529 00:20:36,210 --> 00:20:39,240 to really look at people that have 530 00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:40,740 been in really tough situations 531 00:20:40,740 --> 00:20:43,230 and led from their heart and the outcomes. 532 00:20:43,230 --> 00:20:45,420 So I think that's the place 533 00:20:45,420 --> 00:20:47,370 that I was trying to come from. 534 00:20:47,370 --> 00:20:48,690 And the first step is, 535 00:20:48,690 --> 00:20:50,340 you have to build a relationship 536 00:20:50,340 --> 00:20:53,700 and that's what Katrina and I had to do. 537 00:20:53,700 --> 00:20:55,080 That's, I think what we do 538 00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:56,800 every time a new family 539 00:20:57,810 --> 00:21:00,210 comes to us, the first step, 540 00:21:00,210 --> 00:21:02,400 is always build a relationship. 541 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:05,940 And then secondly is, empower the family. 542 00:21:05,940 --> 00:21:07,980 And that was really important for Kat. 543 00:21:07,980 --> 00:21:10,720 I remember when I met with her 544 00:21:11,580 --> 00:21:13,740 and some of our meetings were just 545 00:21:13,740 --> 00:21:15,090 going through the IEP 546 00:21:15,090 --> 00:21:17,100 and talking about each section 547 00:21:17,100 --> 00:21:22,100 and what does each section include. 548 00:21:22,590 --> 00:21:23,970 What are important steps 549 00:21:23,970 --> 00:21:25,920 from the school team's perspective, 550 00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:27,790 from the family 551 00:21:28,890 --> 00:21:32,250 and just understanding each section 552 00:21:32,250 --> 00:21:35,310 and understanding what should be in the IEP 553 00:21:35,310 --> 00:21:37,770 and how does a family contribute. 554 00:21:37,770 --> 00:21:41,577 And in hindsight, as Katrina 555 00:21:41,577 --> 00:21:43,713 and I were going through that process, 556 00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:47,280 that was kind of the hindsight of 557 00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:50,880 why didn't we do more and more of this 558 00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:54,210 with our special education teachers? 559 00:21:54,210 --> 00:21:57,390 Why aren't we having these conversations 560 00:21:57,390 --> 00:22:02,390 in our pre-training with college students 561 00:22:03,330 --> 00:22:06,210 and how do they prepare for how 562 00:22:06,210 --> 00:22:08,553 to have these conversations with families. 563 00:22:09,990 --> 00:22:10,823 And I think Nikki, 564 00:22:10,823 --> 00:22:13,470 that's what's led to some of even 565 00:22:13,470 --> 00:22:17,040 the work on the family engagement evenings 566 00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:19,440 where we're trying to train families 567 00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:24,420 led to the IEP binder to empower families, 568 00:22:24,420 --> 00:22:28,350 to organize things, to have resources 569 00:22:28,350 --> 00:22:31,140 because like the bad acronyms 570 00:22:31,140 --> 00:22:34,440 that we throw out as educators. 571 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:35,273 - [Nikki] Yeah. 572 00:22:35,273 --> 00:22:36,690 - [Chris] That, you know, we know 573 00:22:36,690 --> 00:22:38,460 and we have this like language 574 00:22:38,460 --> 00:22:41,220 that we use that's just all acronyms 575 00:22:41,220 --> 00:22:43,620 and families, they don't know. 576 00:22:43,620 --> 00:22:46,980 And unfortunately, they don't speak up 577 00:22:46,980 --> 00:22:48,660 and say, "Hey, stop the meeting. 578 00:22:48,660 --> 00:22:50,130 What in the world are you talking about? 579 00:22:50,130 --> 00:22:51,330 What does that mean?" 580 00:22:51,330 --> 00:22:53,100 So you know, we need to make sure 581 00:22:53,100 --> 00:22:55,922 that we empower families to have 582 00:22:55,922 --> 00:22:58,170 that skill, that knowledge. 583 00:22:58,170 --> 00:22:59,610 And it's interesting, Nikki, 584 00:22:59,610 --> 00:23:01,530 we just talked about this in class, 585 00:23:01,530 --> 00:23:03,150 the Delaware Valley University class 586 00:23:03,150 --> 00:23:05,190 where Nikki was a guest speaker 587 00:23:05,190 --> 00:23:07,710 and we talked about research that shows 588 00:23:07,710 --> 00:23:09,900 that even when 589 00:23:09,900 --> 00:23:11,790 there's really good family engagement 590 00:23:11,790 --> 00:23:14,040 between schools and families, 591 00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:16,500 if the family doesn't have 592 00:23:16,500 --> 00:23:18,150 that core knowledge and understanding 593 00:23:18,150 --> 00:23:20,310 to feel that they're prepared, 594 00:23:20,310 --> 00:23:21,870 they won't engage, 595 00:23:21,870 --> 00:23:23,520 even if you provide hundreds 596 00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:25,712 and hundreds of opportunities, 597 00:23:25,712 --> 00:23:27,570 they won't come because 598 00:23:27,570 --> 00:23:28,830 they don't feel comfortable 599 00:23:28,830 --> 00:23:30,360 and they don't feel 600 00:23:30,360 --> 00:23:31,910 comfortable to be at the table. 601 00:23:32,820 --> 00:23:35,430 - [Nikki] You know, I presented earlier 602 00:23:35,430 --> 00:23:37,890 this week to medical professionals 603 00:23:37,890 --> 00:23:40,980 and one of the things that we said was, 604 00:23:40,980 --> 00:23:44,010 you need to provide hope and resources 605 00:23:44,010 --> 00:23:47,730 because families need not just 606 00:23:47,730 --> 00:23:50,760 stuff thrown at them, they need resources 607 00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:53,070 and they need hope that it's gonna work out. 608 00:23:53,070 --> 00:23:54,660 And that goes for school too. 609 00:23:54,660 --> 00:23:56,130 I mean, we need that hope 610 00:23:56,130 --> 00:23:57,570 that it's going to work out, 611 00:23:57,570 --> 00:23:59,310 that everything is gonna be okay. 612 00:23:59,310 --> 00:24:01,740 And sometimes, that's really hard, 613 00:24:01,740 --> 00:24:05,970 but all of these resources that are out there, 614 00:24:05,970 --> 00:24:08,400 there's no direct path to them. 615 00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:12,060 So we need guidance 616 00:24:12,060 --> 00:24:14,790 to find the path that makes the most sense. 617 00:24:14,790 --> 00:24:16,860 I mean, and just when you think 618 00:24:16,860 --> 00:24:19,110 that you have it under control, 619 00:24:19,110 --> 00:24:20,823 your child ages. 620 00:24:23,340 --> 00:24:24,335 Exactly. - [Jessica] And the whole 621 00:24:24,335 --> 00:24:25,168 thing changes. - [Nikki] I mean, 622 00:24:25,168 --> 00:24:26,001 I have an 11-year-old 623 00:24:26,001 --> 00:24:28,170 and I'm scared of transition, 624 00:24:28,170 --> 00:24:30,480 but I know that with all the people 625 00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:32,190 I've surrounded myself with, 626 00:24:32,190 --> 00:24:33,360 that someone is going 627 00:24:33,360 --> 00:24:35,580 to have some great advice for me. 628 00:24:35,580 --> 00:24:38,523 And this is a really lonely journey. 629 00:24:40,740 --> 00:24:43,380 So when you are a professional, 630 00:24:43,380 --> 00:24:45,240 like Chris said to himself, 631 00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:47,910 this is what I wanna do with myself, 632 00:24:47,910 --> 00:24:51,270 there is not a parent that it was like, 633 00:24:51,270 --> 00:24:53,190 I am gonna have a special needs child. 634 00:24:53,190 --> 00:24:54,630 That is what I am going to do. 635 00:24:54,630 --> 00:24:57,810 I am gonna make sure, nobody says that. 636 00:24:57,810 --> 00:25:02,810 So we need help because we didn't expect this. 637 00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:06,960 And there are so many different levels 638 00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:09,840 of families, every family 639 00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:11,670 has a different dynamic. 640 00:25:11,670 --> 00:25:15,540 So this journey is not easy. 641 00:25:15,540 --> 00:25:18,960 And that's why things like this team 642 00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:21,660 and having, you know, people around us, 643 00:25:21,660 --> 00:25:25,230 like all of these IU leaders at IU 20 644 00:25:25,230 --> 00:25:28,590 live and breathe this, they are with us. 645 00:25:28,590 --> 00:25:30,637 If I called Chris tonight and said, 646 00:25:30,637 --> 00:25:32,760 "I don't know what to do about this," 647 00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:34,050 he would help me. 648 00:25:34,050 --> 00:25:36,840 If I called, you know, any of them, 649 00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:38,220 they would be there for me. 650 00:25:38,220 --> 00:25:39,573 And that's huge. 651 00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:41,273 - [Jessica] Yeah, I think you 652 00:25:41,273 --> 00:25:42,300 make a really good point there, Nikki, 653 00:25:42,300 --> 00:25:46,276 in that it is isolating. 654 00:25:46,276 --> 00:25:48,270 I think there are parts of parenthood 655 00:25:48,270 --> 00:25:53,270 that I often feel very unsure of next steps 656 00:25:53,580 --> 00:25:56,040 as my children continue to age and develop. 657 00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:58,860 And as parents, we're always thinking like, 658 00:25:58,860 --> 00:26:00,060 is this just happening to me 659 00:26:00,060 --> 00:26:01,470 or is this happening to everybody, right? 660 00:26:01,470 --> 00:26:04,830 Is this developmentally appropriate? 661 00:26:04,830 --> 00:26:06,330 Am I doing the right thing? 662 00:26:06,330 --> 00:26:09,420 It's not something that most people 663 00:26:09,420 --> 00:26:11,940 don't get a ton of training and resources. 664 00:26:11,940 --> 00:26:13,440 And I think families do need that. 665 00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:14,910 And they do need the reassurance of, 666 00:26:14,910 --> 00:26:16,440 you're doing a good job, 667 00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:18,660 you're on the right track. 668 00:26:18,660 --> 00:26:21,300 I like what you said about having hope, 669 00:26:21,300 --> 00:26:22,710 but I think it's really important that 670 00:26:22,710 --> 00:26:25,650 we emphasize the hope with a plan, 671 00:26:25,650 --> 00:26:27,720 not just the, oh, it's gonna be fine, 672 00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:29,820 it's all gonna turn out okay, right? 673 00:26:29,820 --> 00:26:31,680 Because that causes a lot of anxiety too. 674 00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:33,240 But that whole idea of like, 675 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:34,170 if we work together 676 00:26:34,170 --> 00:26:35,640 and we come up with this plan, 677 00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:38,220 we can make progress together. 678 00:26:38,220 --> 00:26:39,630 That's a very powerful 679 00:26:39,630 --> 00:26:41,670 statement to think about that. 680 00:26:41,670 --> 00:26:43,020 So I hear you saying, 681 00:26:43,020 --> 00:26:44,790 I heard you mention a breakfast 682 00:26:44,790 --> 00:26:47,040 that occurs, I think once a month, 683 00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:50,130 and I heard you say, parent nights 684 00:26:50,130 --> 00:26:51,300 where you're teaching 685 00:26:51,300 --> 00:26:52,680 some processes and procedures. 686 00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:55,080 So talk to me a little bit about 687 00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:57,390 how your meetings are structured for this team. 688 00:26:57,390 --> 00:26:59,070 - [Nikki] So once a month, 689 00:26:59,070 --> 00:27:00,780 we have a breakfast during the school year, 690 00:27:00,780 --> 00:27:01,680 and then in the summer, 691 00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:04,560 we do day activities with the kids. 692 00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:07,200 And we do a dinner because 693 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:09,060 you know, we need to decompress too. 694 00:27:09,060 --> 00:27:10,533 We're, you know, families. 695 00:27:11,460 --> 00:27:12,990 So during the school year, 696 00:27:12,990 --> 00:27:15,480 every other month, we invite the IU. 697 00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:17,610 Sometimes, we have to invite them more 698 00:27:17,610 --> 00:27:19,800 than usual because there's so many topics 699 00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:21,570 that families wanna hear about. 700 00:27:21,570 --> 00:27:23,790 But it is nice to have, you know, 701 00:27:23,790 --> 00:27:25,560 times for us to just be together. 702 00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:29,970 And Chris and everyone from the IU is very aware, 703 00:27:29,970 --> 00:27:32,040 like sometimes, they'll leave a breakfast 704 00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:35,370 early so that we do have some time 705 00:27:35,370 --> 00:27:36,990 together to kind of decompress 706 00:27:36,990 --> 00:27:37,823 after they're gone 707 00:27:37,823 --> 00:27:40,110 and talk about what's been said. 708 00:27:40,110 --> 00:27:41,910 But what we do is, 709 00:27:41,910 --> 00:27:44,400 normally Katrina will go to Chris 710 00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:46,830 and say, "Here's what we have going on, 711 00:27:46,830 --> 00:27:48,450 here's what families are talking about, 712 00:27:48,450 --> 00:27:51,420 what do you think we can do with these topics?" 713 00:27:51,420 --> 00:27:53,793 And then they work together on a plan. 714 00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:57,423 - [Chris] Yeah, and you know, 715 00:27:58,380 --> 00:27:59,970 depending on what the topic is, 716 00:27:59,970 --> 00:28:01,830 then I try to find 717 00:28:01,830 --> 00:28:04,830 who's the person here at the IU that's best 718 00:28:04,830 --> 00:28:08,430 that can go with to the breakfast, 719 00:28:08,430 --> 00:28:10,890 speak to provide information, 720 00:28:10,890 --> 00:28:15,000 background information, answer questions. 721 00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:16,800 But the rest of the meeting is, 722 00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:18,630 I don't know, Nikki, it's kind of organic, 723 00:28:18,630 --> 00:28:21,840 you know, we eat, we listen, 724 00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:24,300 we talk, we have fun. 725 00:28:24,300 --> 00:28:26,347 And throughout those conversations, 726 00:28:26,347 --> 00:28:27,780 you know, we really try 727 00:28:27,780 --> 00:28:29,610 to help to support one another. 728 00:28:29,610 --> 00:28:32,340 And you know, I hope, 729 00:28:32,340 --> 00:28:33,840 I don't know what the meeting looks 730 00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:35,670 like from an outside observer, 731 00:28:35,670 --> 00:28:37,530 but I hope like if 732 00:28:37,530 --> 00:28:38,970 someone came from the outside, 733 00:28:38,970 --> 00:28:39,930 they wouldn't even see 734 00:28:39,930 --> 00:28:42,960 a separation of family in school. 735 00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:44,220 They would say, it's just a bunch 736 00:28:44,220 --> 00:28:46,650 of people talking about kids 737 00:28:46,650 --> 00:28:48,630 and talking about services, 738 00:28:48,630 --> 00:28:50,760 but we're trying to support the families. 739 00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:52,530 But the other great thing is, 740 00:28:52,530 --> 00:28:55,650 the families are supporting us. 741 00:28:55,650 --> 00:28:58,770 And whether it's me or whether, 742 00:28:58,770 --> 00:29:02,010 it's another IU representative at the meeting, 743 00:29:02,010 --> 00:29:05,654 we learn so much from our families about 744 00:29:05,654 --> 00:29:08,280 what's working well, 745 00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:10,050 what do we need to revise, 746 00:29:10,050 --> 00:29:12,000 what do we need to enhance. 747 00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:15,420 We've learned so much from our families to 748 00:29:15,420 --> 00:29:19,440 make our services better and more supportive. 749 00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:21,120 And without these type of things, 750 00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:22,050 like these breakfasts 751 00:29:22,050 --> 00:29:23,250 or these evening events 752 00:29:23,250 --> 00:29:26,040 or these one-on-one conversations, 753 00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:28,320 we wouldn't be in the place that we were. 754 00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:29,973 So it's really critical. 755 00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:33,000 - [Nikki] So I do wanna say like, 756 00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:34,620 it is really organic 757 00:29:34,620 --> 00:29:37,170 and I do believe that if you walked in, 758 00:29:37,170 --> 00:29:38,730 you wouldn't really know what was happening. 759 00:29:38,730 --> 00:29:39,810 Everybody's laughing 760 00:29:39,810 --> 00:29:42,033 and having fun and working together, 761 00:29:43,500 --> 00:29:47,820 but I know that families have a sense 762 00:29:47,820 --> 00:29:50,760 of pride that they're making change. 763 00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:52,140 I can tell you, you know, 764 00:29:52,140 --> 00:29:54,570 one family came to a breakfast 765 00:29:54,570 --> 00:29:57,360 and she pitched an idea to Chris 766 00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:01,830 and said, we should have this to help families. 767 00:30:01,830 --> 00:30:05,220 And when he went back and implemented it, 768 00:30:05,220 --> 00:30:06,660 I think she just felt like 769 00:30:06,660 --> 00:30:08,610 she was on top of the world. 770 00:30:08,610 --> 00:30:10,920 I mean, that's absolutely huge 771 00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:13,470 that not only are we getting together, 772 00:30:13,470 --> 00:30:15,360 and the whole point of it was 773 00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:17,820 to put a face to a name because 774 00:30:17,820 --> 00:30:20,340 what was happening at the beginning was, 775 00:30:20,340 --> 00:30:21,330 we went to a meeting, 776 00:30:21,330 --> 00:30:24,060 our very first meeting with the IU 777 00:30:24,060 --> 00:30:27,600 and most people didn't even understand 778 00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:30,150 that the IU provides services, 779 00:30:30,150 --> 00:30:31,770 but your school district is still 780 00:30:31,770 --> 00:30:34,050 in charge of your child's education. 781 00:30:34,050 --> 00:30:36,150 There was so much confusion 782 00:30:36,150 --> 00:30:40,440 and families felt like even more lost 783 00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:42,810 at first until they started to get 784 00:30:42,810 --> 00:30:45,060 to know everyone at the IU. 785 00:30:45,060 --> 00:30:47,467 And then they would be like, 786 00:30:47,467 --> 00:30:49,680 "Oh, well, that's Chris, he listens." 787 00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:51,510 So when we're at the next breakfast, 788 00:30:51,510 --> 00:30:53,340 I'll tell him what I think. 789 00:30:53,340 --> 00:30:54,390 Or there's Jackie 790 00:30:54,390 --> 00:30:56,730 and I know that she'll hear me out on this. 791 00:30:56,730 --> 00:31:00,240 And again, we are not always gonna get along. 792 00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:01,860 In fact, at our last breakfast, 793 00:31:01,860 --> 00:31:04,140 there was an issue where like 794 00:31:04,140 --> 00:31:06,000 both sides did not see eye to eye 795 00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:07,710 and it was okay 796 00:31:07,710 --> 00:31:09,780 because we've built this relationship. 797 00:31:09,780 --> 00:31:11,520 Even we had new families there 798 00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:14,160 that had never been to a breakfast before. 799 00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:16,140 And they were like, "Wow." 800 00:31:16,140 --> 00:31:17,757 Even though they didn't get along 801 00:31:17,757 --> 00:31:19,890 and it didn't all work, 802 00:31:19,890 --> 00:31:23,043 nobody came out a winner, it was okay. 803 00:31:24,570 --> 00:31:25,403 - [Chris] Nikki, I thought you 804 00:31:25,403 --> 00:31:27,720 were gonna share the one evening. 805 00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:29,720 And I don't know if it was during COVID, 806 00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:32,430 I don't know if it was COVID 807 00:31:32,430 --> 00:31:34,530 or it was just an evening virtual event 808 00:31:34,530 --> 00:31:37,590 that we were having, but we had a family 809 00:31:37,590 --> 00:31:39,660 that for their first time attended 810 00:31:39,660 --> 00:31:44,660 the event and was posting some really 811 00:31:44,910 --> 00:31:48,030 radical comments in the chat. 812 00:31:48,030 --> 00:31:52,770 You know, like, "What kind of BS is this? 813 00:31:52,770 --> 00:31:54,867 Where are all the real families?" 814 00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:57,333 And you know, 815 00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:01,200 just was really shocked by 816 00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:04,503 this kind of interaction that was going on. 817 00:32:08,263 --> 00:32:09,096 You know, we were able 818 00:32:09,096 --> 00:32:11,433 to offline make connections, 819 00:32:12,510 --> 00:32:14,310 you know, with this family 820 00:32:14,310 --> 00:32:16,410 that the next day, had a one-on-one. 821 00:32:16,410 --> 00:32:21,150 And you know, you could hear that over the years 822 00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:25,080 through various interactions with this family 823 00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:28,590 and schools was the door was shut 824 00:32:28,590 --> 00:32:31,500 and didn't feel that anyone listened. 825 00:32:31,500 --> 00:32:34,860 And that was a change, you know, 826 00:32:34,860 --> 00:32:37,500 the fact of having the conversation, 827 00:32:37,500 --> 00:32:41,040 listening, following through on items 828 00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:43,150 and starting to create some action 829 00:32:44,206 --> 00:32:47,220 that changed that person's perspective. 830 00:32:47,220 --> 00:32:51,240 And provided that hope that maybe 831 00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:56,010 there is good family school communication 832 00:32:56,010 --> 00:32:56,940 and when there's issues, 833 00:32:56,940 --> 00:33:00,360 we can work together to find solutions. 834 00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:02,790 So it's interesting, you know, 835 00:33:02,790 --> 00:33:05,700 when families have gone through their journey. 836 00:33:05,700 --> 00:33:07,260 Some of our families have faced 837 00:33:07,260 --> 00:33:11,460 some pretty unfortunate circumstances 838 00:33:11,460 --> 00:33:14,490 where, you know, even their own esteem 839 00:33:14,490 --> 00:33:16,050 and self-esteem about how it's gonna 840 00:33:16,050 --> 00:33:18,510 work out is very low at that point. 841 00:33:18,510 --> 00:33:19,980 - [Jessica] Yeah, doesn't feel real, 842 00:33:19,980 --> 00:33:21,183 this feels like a setup. 843 00:33:22,020 --> 00:33:24,000 - [Nikki] No, and before we move 844 00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:26,310 to something else, I do wanna say, 845 00:33:26,310 --> 00:33:28,473 we have been really fortunate, 846 00:33:29,670 --> 00:33:33,120 you know, we have been going to trainings 847 00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:34,650 anytime there was anything. 848 00:33:34,650 --> 00:33:37,410 And when we approached Chris 849 00:33:37,410 --> 00:33:40,320 and said, "We wanna morph 850 00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:41,970 this family engagement a little bit, 851 00:33:41,970 --> 00:33:45,120 we wanna like, you know, change things up." 852 00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:47,460 And he was like, "Okay, what are you thinking?" 853 00:33:47,460 --> 00:33:50,047 And we said to him, 854 00:33:50,047 --> 00:33:53,160 "First, it shouldn't just be families, 855 00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:55,080 it should be families and educators. 856 00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:56,100 If this is gonna work, 857 00:33:56,100 --> 00:33:57,777 we have to be in it together." 858 00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:00,750 So then we changed the name 859 00:34:00,750 --> 00:34:03,780 to Family and Educator Engagement Series 860 00:34:03,780 --> 00:34:07,590 and we try to come up with topics 861 00:34:07,590 --> 00:34:09,930 and put both sides out there 862 00:34:09,930 --> 00:34:13,560 so that it's educators wanna show up 863 00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:14,940 and families wanna show up 864 00:34:14,940 --> 00:34:17,820 and it's not just about one side. 865 00:34:17,820 --> 00:34:19,590 And that's really important to us. 866 00:34:19,590 --> 00:34:22,560 In fact, in October, we're having, 867 00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:25,080 October 30th, we're gonna do 868 00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:27,750 IEP tips from both sides. 869 00:34:27,750 --> 00:34:29,940 So you can get ideas. 870 00:34:29,940 --> 00:34:32,100 We actually had a school district 871 00:34:32,100 --> 00:34:35,070 approach us and ask for a flyer 872 00:34:35,070 --> 00:34:36,840 so that they could get a substitute 873 00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:38,760 for a teacher so she could show up. 874 00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:40,397 And I was like, "This is amazing." 875 00:34:41,850 --> 00:34:42,843 - [Jessica] Yay. 876 00:34:43,869 --> 00:34:45,720 That's right, that's right. 877 00:34:45,720 --> 00:34:48,000 That's awesome. - [Nikevia] Wow. 878 00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:49,110 - [Jessica] That's awesome. 879 00:34:49,110 --> 00:34:50,250 - [Nikevia] That's great. 880 00:34:50,250 --> 00:34:54,030 Nikki, so I wanna ask in connection to that, 881 00:34:54,030 --> 00:34:56,340 like as a parent, how has this program 882 00:34:56,340 --> 00:34:58,260 impacted your perception of school 883 00:34:58,260 --> 00:35:00,660 and family relationships? 884 00:35:00,660 --> 00:35:03,210 - [Nikki] So I have two 885 00:35:03,210 --> 00:35:05,700 medically complex children. 886 00:35:05,700 --> 00:35:10,170 So for me, when my children were diagnosed, 887 00:35:10,170 --> 00:35:12,960 my son was diagnosed at three, 888 00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:16,710 I went into like a very bad place. 889 00:35:16,710 --> 00:35:20,253 Like I was so depressed, I had to quit working. 890 00:35:21,420 --> 00:35:23,400 My whole life was my job. 891 00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:25,620 It was how I saw myself. 892 00:35:25,620 --> 00:35:28,410 So to not work was really hard. 893 00:35:28,410 --> 00:35:32,370 And then when I started thinking about school, 894 00:35:32,370 --> 00:35:33,780 you know, I'm in early intervention 895 00:35:33,780 --> 00:35:34,770 and I'm like, "Oh my gosh, 896 00:35:34,770 --> 00:35:35,640 I'm overwhelmed now, 897 00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:37,110 what am I gonna feel like, 898 00:35:37,110 --> 00:35:39,570 you know, when he's in school?" 899 00:35:39,570 --> 00:35:42,870 And I, one morning just woke up 900 00:35:42,870 --> 00:35:45,600 and was like, "Okay, I have to figure this out. 901 00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:47,070 I have to work through this. 902 00:35:47,070 --> 00:35:49,530 I have to find a way to make this work." 903 00:35:49,530 --> 00:35:51,540 I didn't have the tools though, 904 00:35:51,540 --> 00:35:52,920 and I didn't know anybody else 905 00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:54,750 in the same situation as me. 906 00:35:54,750 --> 00:35:55,620 I didn't have any 907 00:35:55,620 --> 00:35:58,110 friends with kids who had needs. 908 00:35:58,110 --> 00:36:00,990 And then when my son started kindergarten, 909 00:36:00,990 --> 00:36:02,850 I still didn't have any friends 910 00:36:02,850 --> 00:36:04,560 who had children with needs. 911 00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:06,480 And I thought, this is a lot harder 912 00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:08,550 than I ever thought it was going to be. 913 00:36:08,550 --> 00:36:11,370 And when I met Katrina, 914 00:36:11,370 --> 00:36:13,920 I started on the Local Task Force. 915 00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:14,753 'cause I was like, 916 00:36:14,753 --> 00:36:15,600 "I have to find people, 917 00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:16,830 like there's gotta be people, 918 00:36:16,830 --> 00:36:17,700 I have to find them." 919 00:36:17,700 --> 00:36:21,120 And when I met her, my son was in first grade 920 00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:26,120 and I was down again because I was like, 921 00:36:26,137 --> 00:36:30,480 "Okay, where are my people? 922 00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:32,250 How am I supposed to figure this out?" 923 00:36:32,250 --> 00:36:34,320 Because there's no books out there. 924 00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:37,980 And like I said, the resources are scattered. 925 00:36:37,980 --> 00:36:40,290 So it wasn't until 926 00:36:40,290 --> 00:36:43,290 we got a new special ed director 927 00:36:43,290 --> 00:36:45,217 in our district that I was like, 928 00:36:45,217 --> 00:36:47,040 "I have to start, you know, 929 00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:48,660 building these relationships. 930 00:36:48,660 --> 00:36:50,700 I have to start working closer." 931 00:36:50,700 --> 00:36:52,290 I already had a good relationship 932 00:36:52,290 --> 00:36:53,820 with the principal 933 00:36:53,820 --> 00:36:56,100 at my son's school and his teachers. 934 00:36:56,100 --> 00:36:58,950 But building that relationship further up. 935 00:36:58,950 --> 00:37:01,200 And I mean, I even have a good relationship 936 00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:04,020 with our superintendent now in our district. 937 00:37:04,020 --> 00:37:07,050 And all of that comes from this same model. 938 00:37:07,050 --> 00:37:08,970 And if I hadn't found my people, 939 00:37:08,970 --> 00:37:10,590 if I hadn't found this model, 940 00:37:10,590 --> 00:37:12,780 I wouldn't be able to do all those things. 941 00:37:12,780 --> 00:37:14,070 And I hope this makes sense 942 00:37:14,070 --> 00:37:16,410 'cause it's a like a lot 943 00:37:16,410 --> 00:37:19,383 to put into one question for me. 944 00:37:20,730 --> 00:37:22,193 - [Nikevia] Yes. 945 00:37:22,193 --> 00:37:24,270 - [Nikki] I truly believe that 946 00:37:24,270 --> 00:37:28,110 unless every person around my child 947 00:37:28,110 --> 00:37:30,300 is getting the best education they can get 948 00:37:30,300 --> 00:37:32,850 that he's not either or she's not either. 949 00:37:32,850 --> 00:37:35,940 So it's not just about my son 950 00:37:35,940 --> 00:37:37,950 and my daughter, it's about everybody 951 00:37:37,950 --> 00:37:39,960 there getting what they need. 952 00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:42,930 And in order to do that, I've had to 953 00:37:42,930 --> 00:37:45,090 spend a lot of time building relationships. 954 00:37:45,090 --> 00:37:47,100 In fact, I can use 955 00:37:47,100 --> 00:37:49,290 this as an example of this too. 956 00:37:49,290 --> 00:37:50,820 Like Katrina and Chris 957 00:37:50,820 --> 00:37:53,910 have been very close since I've met them. 958 00:37:53,910 --> 00:37:57,000 And it took me a long time 959 00:37:57,000 --> 00:37:58,290 'cause I didn't know where my place 960 00:37:58,290 --> 00:38:00,390 was in that relationship. 961 00:38:00,390 --> 00:38:02,610 And I mean, Chris and I 962 00:38:02,610 --> 00:38:05,424 have presented together quite a few times now 963 00:38:05,424 --> 00:38:08,460 and I do feel like we've built something 964 00:38:08,460 --> 00:38:12,240 that is separate from what he and Katrina have. 965 00:38:12,240 --> 00:38:13,470 Because at first, I felt like 966 00:38:13,470 --> 00:38:16,203 I was the third wheel in their time. 967 00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:19,420 - [Jessica] I just keep hearing the words, time 968 00:38:21,510 --> 00:38:24,090 and like the humility of like, 969 00:38:24,090 --> 00:38:24,930 going in knowing 970 00:38:24,930 --> 00:38:26,733 that this isn't going to be easy. 971 00:38:27,630 --> 00:38:29,160 And Chris, I'm thinking about that like, 972 00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:32,156 you know, I come from the realm of being 973 00:38:32,156 --> 00:38:34,410 a school principal, a school administrator. 974 00:38:34,410 --> 00:38:38,160 And I know that it's super tough to be a leader 975 00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:42,030 and have to hear that families aren't happy 976 00:38:42,030 --> 00:38:43,560 with what's going on or they're feeling 977 00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:45,510 frustrated and that there's a kind of a sense 978 00:38:45,510 --> 00:38:48,180 of like, oh my gosh, I don't know about you. 979 00:38:48,180 --> 00:38:49,980 I'm like, "Oh my gosh, I screwed up. 980 00:38:49,980 --> 00:38:52,620 They're not happy, I want everyone to be happy. 981 00:38:52,620 --> 00:38:53,670 I wanna do the right thing." 982 00:38:53,670 --> 00:38:56,700 But how do you keep you 983 00:38:56,700 --> 00:38:58,650 and the professionals from becoming 984 00:38:58,650 --> 00:39:00,990 defensive during those tough conversations? 985 00:39:00,990 --> 00:39:02,790 'Cause I think that's the key, 986 00:39:02,790 --> 00:39:04,080 is that sense of humility 987 00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:06,210 I keep hearing in your voice about, 988 00:39:06,210 --> 00:39:07,740 you know, yeah, we messed up sometimes, 989 00:39:07,740 --> 00:39:09,390 sometimes, we're gonna mess up. 990 00:39:09,390 --> 00:39:12,510 And so how do you work on that? 991 00:39:12,510 --> 00:39:15,330 Or what techniques do you employ 992 00:39:15,330 --> 00:39:16,770 to kind of work on that? 993 00:39:16,770 --> 00:39:17,820 - [Chris] It's really tough 994 00:39:17,820 --> 00:39:21,240 when families share their frustration 995 00:39:21,240 --> 00:39:24,210 or they are dissatisfied with services. 996 00:39:24,210 --> 00:39:26,220 And it's tough because, 997 00:39:26,220 --> 00:39:27,630 at least for me, and I think 998 00:39:27,630 --> 00:39:30,120 I could speak for a lot of our staff, 999 00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:32,220 we feel like we failed them. 1000 00:39:32,220 --> 00:39:34,200 And we don't wanna fail our children 1001 00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:36,050 and we don't wanna fail our families. 1002 00:39:37,050 --> 00:39:40,050 But I don't take it personally. 1003 00:39:40,050 --> 00:39:42,990 And I try to encourage other 1004 00:39:42,990 --> 00:39:45,960 educators not to take it personally. 1005 00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:47,970 I try to encourage them, 1006 00:39:47,970 --> 00:39:50,580 listen, try to truly understand 1007 00:39:50,580 --> 00:39:51,970 how the family feels 1008 00:39:52,950 --> 00:39:56,868 and use those moments that, 1009 00:39:56,868 --> 00:39:58,170 you know, you see as challenges, 1010 00:39:58,170 --> 00:40:00,840 as opportunities and opportunities to improve. 1011 00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:03,060 So you know, when families share information, 1012 00:40:03,060 --> 00:40:04,950 whether it's good or bad, 1013 00:40:04,950 --> 00:40:05,880 you have to look at 'em 1014 00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:08,490 as the goods or moments to celebrate. 1015 00:40:08,490 --> 00:40:10,140 And the bad 1016 00:40:10,140 --> 00:40:12,360 are what I call, our gaps. 1017 00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:15,420 And those are areas that we need to improve upon. 1018 00:40:15,420 --> 00:40:18,180 And you know, my advice is when tensions 1019 00:40:18,180 --> 00:40:21,240 and emotions are high, you know, 1020 00:40:21,240 --> 00:40:23,130 what we have to do is, 1021 00:40:23,130 --> 00:40:24,510 we have to take a step back, 1022 00:40:24,510 --> 00:40:26,320 keep our mouths shut, and listen 1023 00:40:27,210 --> 00:40:28,930 and listen with empathy 1024 00:40:29,910 --> 00:40:32,580 and really focus in on where are those 1025 00:40:32,580 --> 00:40:35,070 areas that we can find agreement 1026 00:40:35,070 --> 00:40:38,040 and move forward from there. 1027 00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:39,300 I think too many times 1028 00:40:39,300 --> 00:40:42,210 people focus on the disagreements 1029 00:40:42,210 --> 00:40:43,530 and they get stuck 1030 00:40:43,530 --> 00:40:45,690 and then they can't move forward. 1031 00:40:45,690 --> 00:40:47,250 So it's important that, you know, 1032 00:40:47,250 --> 00:40:49,980 you're always looking for win-win situations 1033 00:40:49,980 --> 00:40:54,030 and I think Nikki or Jessica, 1034 00:40:54,030 --> 00:40:55,860 you know, I think we said this earlier, 1035 00:40:55,860 --> 00:40:58,010 is you gotta keep the focus on the student. 1036 00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:00,630 It's always the most important. 1037 00:41:00,630 --> 00:41:02,790 And a lot of times, 1038 00:41:02,790 --> 00:41:04,320 I think when there's disagreement, 1039 00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:06,213 we lose focus of the student. 1040 00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:10,050 And you can't do that. 1041 00:41:10,050 --> 00:41:11,000 - [Nikki] You know, 1042 00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:16,420 sometimes even in the best times 1043 00:41:19,868 --> 00:41:21,150 you're most optimistic, 1044 00:41:21,150 --> 00:41:23,280 you're trying your hardest, 1045 00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:26,310 there's personality conflict 1046 00:41:26,310 --> 00:41:28,650 or you're not gonna get along 1047 00:41:28,650 --> 00:41:30,720 with every single person 1048 00:41:30,720 --> 00:41:35,040 that's in your, you know, student's life. 1049 00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:37,290 But if you're both on the same page 1050 00:41:37,290 --> 00:41:39,120 where you're saying, "Hey, listen, 1051 00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:40,380 it's not about us agreeing, 1052 00:41:40,380 --> 00:41:42,150 it's not about you, it's not about me, 1053 00:41:42,150 --> 00:41:44,160 and we're keeping it student-centered," 1054 00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:45,933 then it can still work out. 1055 00:41:46,890 --> 00:41:48,420 - [Nikevia] Yeah, keeping the focus 1056 00:41:48,420 --> 00:41:52,230 on the student, it's very important. 1057 00:41:52,230 --> 00:41:56,400 Chris, I'm wondering, how has this journey, 1058 00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:57,820 you've talked a lot about 1059 00:41:59,100 --> 00:42:01,447 your approach and I gotta read this book, 1060 00:42:01,447 --> 00:42:04,077 "Heart-Led Leader." 1061 00:42:06,210 --> 00:42:09,060 How has this journey impacted you 1062 00:42:09,060 --> 00:42:11,433 as a leader, as an educational leader? 1063 00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:15,630 - [Chris] Yeah, it's humbled me. 1064 00:42:15,630 --> 00:42:18,030 It's definitely made me work harder. 1065 00:42:18,030 --> 00:42:19,500 We have to do better 1066 00:42:19,500 --> 00:42:20,950 and we always have to improve 1067 00:42:21,810 --> 00:42:23,040 and we need to be champions 1068 00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:24,990 for our children and our families. 1069 00:42:24,990 --> 00:42:27,030 And it's also inspired me. 1070 00:42:27,030 --> 00:42:29,052 It's motivated me to 1071 00:42:29,052 --> 00:42:31,620 continue to create a community 1072 00:42:31,620 --> 00:42:35,670 that truly embraces love, respect, 1073 00:42:35,670 --> 00:42:37,860 and belonging for all. 1074 00:42:37,860 --> 00:42:40,350 I see too many times that 1075 00:42:40,350 --> 00:42:44,220 people are excluded or not connected 1076 00:42:44,220 --> 00:42:46,410 and that really leads 1077 00:42:46,410 --> 00:42:49,620 to some really bad things for people. 1078 00:42:49,620 --> 00:42:51,930 And you know, everybody 1079 00:42:51,930 --> 00:42:53,460 needs to go back to kindergarten 1080 00:42:53,460 --> 00:42:54,750 and remember when we were sitting 1081 00:42:54,750 --> 00:42:56,820 and we were singing songs 1082 00:42:56,820 --> 00:42:58,650 about being kind to one another 1083 00:42:58,650 --> 00:43:01,020 and it's really important 1084 00:43:01,020 --> 00:43:05,100 and for some reason, people lose their way. 1085 00:43:05,100 --> 00:43:06,600 And we need to get back to that. 1086 00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:08,370 We need to get back to that core, 1087 00:43:08,370 --> 00:43:09,300 but we're always looking 1088 00:43:09,300 --> 00:43:12,270 for the challenges as opportunities 1089 00:43:12,270 --> 00:43:13,860 and we want our students 1090 00:43:13,860 --> 00:43:16,740 to be happy when they leave us. 1091 00:43:16,740 --> 00:43:21,150 And we want our our children to be successful. 1092 00:43:21,150 --> 00:43:24,660 You know, what I want for the children here 1093 00:43:24,660 --> 00:43:28,320 that we serve is the same I want for my own kids. 1094 00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:29,153 - [Jessica] That's right. - [Chris] And you know, 1095 00:43:29,153 --> 00:43:31,050 so I'm inspired to help lead 1096 00:43:31,050 --> 00:43:33,540 that change that builds that knowledge 1097 00:43:33,540 --> 00:43:36,060 and the skills to both our families, 1098 00:43:36,060 --> 00:43:38,100 our educators that we can really 1099 00:43:38,100 --> 00:43:39,717 make a meaningful difference. 1100 00:43:39,717 --> 00:43:41,250 And really, you know, I was talking 1101 00:43:41,250 --> 00:43:45,330 to a teacher, a student teacher last night 1102 00:43:45,330 --> 00:43:48,720 and you know, we were just talking 1103 00:43:48,720 --> 00:43:51,390 about inclusion and they talked about, 1104 00:43:51,390 --> 00:43:53,250 you know, how inclusion has grown 1105 00:43:53,250 --> 00:43:55,380 over the years and you know, 1106 00:43:55,380 --> 00:43:56,910 he talked about equality 1107 00:43:56,910 --> 00:44:00,990 and I said, "You know, we have equality, 1108 00:44:00,990 --> 00:44:02,610 but we need to strive 1109 00:44:02,610 --> 00:44:03,990 not even for equity anymore, 1110 00:44:03,990 --> 00:44:06,060 we need to strive for justice." 1111 00:44:06,060 --> 00:44:08,550 And when we could strive for that, 1112 00:44:08,550 --> 00:44:12,180 then that's that perfect moment, 1113 00:44:12,180 --> 00:44:13,350 but that's gonna take time. 1114 00:44:13,350 --> 00:44:17,670 But we should be raising our expectations 1115 00:44:17,670 --> 00:44:21,360 and pushing for the top at all times. 1116 00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:22,560 - [Jessica] At all times. 1117 00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:25,173 Yeah, yeah, I love that. 1118 00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:29,490 All right, so I could stay here all day, 1119 00:44:29,490 --> 00:44:33,630 but I know everyone has things to get back to. 1120 00:44:33,630 --> 00:44:35,100 So as we wrap up, 1121 00:44:35,100 --> 00:44:36,720 we have a final question that we'd like 1122 00:44:36,720 --> 00:44:37,890 to kind of close out 1123 00:44:37,890 --> 00:44:39,210 with to get your perspectives on. 1124 00:44:39,210 --> 00:44:41,133 And Nikki, we'll start with you, 1125 00:44:42,060 --> 00:44:45,420 from your perspective, if a school is listening 1126 00:44:45,420 --> 00:44:48,480 and they want to adapt their current practices 1127 00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:50,370 to really engage and empower families 1128 00:44:50,370 --> 00:44:52,650 as true partners at the table, 1129 00:44:52,650 --> 00:44:54,420 where's a good place to start with that? 1130 00:44:54,420 --> 00:44:56,340 What's something people can start to do 1131 00:44:56,340 --> 00:44:59,520 today that would make a real difference 1132 00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:03,360 in building out authentic family engagement? 1133 00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:05,820 - [Nikki] So finding families 1134 00:45:05,820 --> 00:45:08,160 who are willing to put their time in 1135 00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:11,760 and work with them and have a mindset 1136 00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:14,790 of working together is the absolute first step. 1137 00:45:14,790 --> 00:45:16,560 If they can find those families 1138 00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:17,880 and they're out there, 1139 00:45:17,880 --> 00:45:19,320 but some of them are hiding 1140 00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:22,770 because they feel like, they are, 1141 00:45:22,770 --> 00:45:25,560 they feel like maybe, they're in the minority, 1142 00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:27,600 but actually, they're in the majority. 1143 00:45:27,600 --> 00:45:30,540 It's just that anger sometimes 1144 00:45:30,540 --> 00:45:32,580 comes to the top in a lot of families. 1145 00:45:32,580 --> 00:45:34,533 And that's what we see. 1146 00:45:35,490 --> 00:45:36,323 - [Jessica] That's what we see 1147 00:45:36,323 --> 00:45:37,263 and hear first, right? 1148 00:45:38,130 --> 00:45:40,500 Yeah, yeah, what about you, Chris? 1149 00:45:40,500 --> 00:45:42,510 What would you suggest? 1150 00:45:42,510 --> 00:45:44,130 - [Chris] For me, it's start creating 1151 00:45:44,130 --> 00:45:46,680 opportunities that you can get to schools 1152 00:45:46,680 --> 00:45:49,020 and families to talk and learn from one another. 1153 00:45:49,020 --> 00:45:51,660 You know, it could be one-on-one interactions. 1154 00:45:51,660 --> 00:45:53,250 It could be group meetings, 1155 00:45:53,250 --> 00:45:55,050 it could be just sharing resources, 1156 00:45:55,050 --> 00:45:57,750 training events, opportunities to celebrate 1157 00:45:57,750 --> 00:45:59,940 success, just get people together 1158 00:45:59,940 --> 00:46:01,440 and start talking. 1159 00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:03,930 And you know, I think the biggest thing 1160 00:46:03,930 --> 00:46:07,420 and I have to practice this every day 1161 00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:10,860 and I think everybody needs to practice this 1162 00:46:10,860 --> 00:46:12,520 and it's to be a better listener 1163 00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:16,740 because active listening is not easy. 1164 00:46:16,740 --> 00:46:18,750 It takes practice 1165 00:46:18,750 --> 00:46:20,640 and it takes admitting to yourself 1166 00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:22,650 when you're not a good active listener. 1167 00:46:22,650 --> 00:46:25,410 And as much as I work 1168 00:46:25,410 --> 00:46:26,730 really, really hard during the day 1169 00:46:26,730 --> 00:46:28,950 to be a good active listener, 1170 00:46:28,950 --> 00:46:30,480 Beth will tell you when I get home, 1171 00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:32,373 I'm a terrible active listener. 1172 00:46:35,102 --> 00:46:37,890 - [Nikevia] Yes, you get it all out at school, 1173 00:46:37,890 --> 00:46:38,952 there's no more energy laughing. 1174 00:46:38,952 --> 00:46:40,173 - [Chris] So I am admitting it. 1175 00:46:40,173 --> 00:46:42,840 I am admitting it today in this podcast. 1176 00:46:42,840 --> 00:46:45,028 So Beth listens to- - [Nikki] Oh, yeah, 1177 00:46:45,028 --> 00:46:46,585 but I don't listen at all. - [Chris] And she will 1178 00:46:46,585 --> 00:46:49,579 admit it that he's a terrible listener at home. 1179 00:46:49,579 --> 00:46:51,310 - [Jessica] I have it, 1180 00:46:51,310 --> 00:46:53,571 I have it on recording, 1181 00:46:53,571 --> 00:46:55,560 I now have it on recording. 1182 00:46:55,560 --> 00:46:57,330 Oh, so oh my gosh, 1183 00:46:57,330 --> 00:46:59,280 thank you so much for joining us today. 1184 00:47:01,230 --> 00:47:02,730 You know, we've done some work with Chris, 1185 00:47:02,730 --> 00:47:04,170 he's been supporting our work here 1186 00:47:04,170 --> 00:47:05,400 with Cafe for a long time, 1187 00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:06,233 and I know Nikki, 1188 00:47:06,233 --> 00:47:07,850 you and I have met at the conference. 1189 00:47:09,090 --> 00:47:10,560 You know, one of the things that 1190 00:47:10,560 --> 00:47:12,300 I was so excited about is to me, 1191 00:47:12,300 --> 00:47:15,990 this is a really great case study story 1192 00:47:15,990 --> 00:47:18,600 that really fits in with the research on 1193 00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:20,850 that desire of families to wanna connect 1194 00:47:20,850 --> 00:47:24,600 with each other and network and work together. 1195 00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:26,100 And how when we really bring 1196 00:47:26,100 --> 00:47:28,650 in that bi-directional conversation 1197 00:47:28,650 --> 00:47:31,080 and really make it a true partnership, 1198 00:47:31,080 --> 00:47:33,090 really great things can happen 1199 00:47:33,090 --> 00:47:34,680 in the service of kids. 1200 00:47:34,680 --> 00:47:37,560 So thank you so much for sharing that with us. 1201 00:47:37,560 --> 00:47:38,940 Nikevia, what are you thinking? 1202 00:47:38,940 --> 00:47:40,860 - [Nikevia] Yes, I am thinking 1203 00:47:40,860 --> 00:47:44,670 about how much effort you 1204 00:47:44,670 --> 00:47:47,760 all put into making a village. 1205 00:47:47,760 --> 00:47:50,100 You know, and then even with the benefit 1206 00:47:50,100 --> 00:47:51,337 of hindsight, you thought, 1207 00:47:51,337 --> 00:47:53,451 "Well, you know what, we should actually 1208 00:47:53,451 --> 00:47:55,950 have the children in to help with 1209 00:47:55,950 --> 00:47:58,080 building this village." 1210 00:47:58,080 --> 00:47:59,850 And I think, you know, 1211 00:47:59,850 --> 00:48:01,890 that is a great image of, you know, 1212 00:48:01,890 --> 00:48:04,530 building a village to support each other 1213 00:48:04,530 --> 00:48:05,930 and take care of each other. 1214 00:48:07,110 --> 00:48:10,320 And I think this is a great model for families 1215 00:48:10,320 --> 00:48:12,480 and for education professionals. 1216 00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:13,680 So thank you so much, 1217 00:48:13,680 --> 00:48:15,360 both of you, for sharing today. 1218 00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:17,160 - [Jessica] Thank you for all the hard work 1219 00:48:17,160 --> 00:48:19,140 and for being willing to share that hard work 1220 00:48:19,140 --> 00:48:19,973 with the rest of us. 1221 00:48:19,973 --> 00:48:20,820 - [Chris] Thank you for inviting us. 1222 00:48:20,820 --> 00:48:22,560 - [Nikki] Well, definitely, thank you. 1223 00:48:22,560 --> 00:48:24,090 - [Jessica] Yeah, anytime. 1224 00:48:24,090 --> 00:48:25,170 And to our listeners, 1225 00:48:25,170 --> 00:48:26,070 thank you for sharing 1226 00:48:26,070 --> 00:48:28,110 a cup of conversation with us. 1227 00:48:28,110 --> 00:48:29,820 We hope you enjoyed it as much as we did. 1228 00:48:29,820 --> 00:48:31,320 So until next time, 1229 00:48:31,320 --> 00:48:32,940 keep those meaningful relationships 1230 00:48:32,940 --> 00:48:33,930 with families brewing 1231 00:48:33,930 --> 00:48:37,017 and don't forget to follow us on X at Cafe_MAEC. 1232 00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:42,302 (bright music)